Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Initial icon design
Hi, On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 9:40 AM, Bernhard Dippold wrote: [...] > I refer to Mimetype icons as desktop representations for application, > documents and templates. Thanks for the clarification. It just that applications don't have a MIME type. Documents do. Technically application icons and MIME type icons are different and so are UI icons and everything is mixed in one pot at the moment. Perhaps we should make different pages for UI icons, application icons and MIME icons because they are really not the same thing. [...[ > As mentioned in my other mail (don't know if you had already been subscribed > here), these icons are meant as interim solution until we have enough time > for thorough investigation and community based design of a new icon set as > well a community based LibreOffice branding. AH. there is the piece of information I'm missing. :) > To avoid introducing new graphical elements that might be replaced in LibO > 3.4 or 3.5, we just used the present branding: The TDF symbol and the LibO > colors. Ok. > The TDF symbol is document based, therefore our icons look like documents (I > don't think this is a bad idea, BTW). Oh I'm not saying it's bad. It's just very limiting. In the Linux world we get used to often very colorful and artistic icons in contrast to the more conservative, corporate look usually found in Windows. At least that is how I remember it. I have not use windows in nearly 10 years. Cheers, Seb. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Initial icon design
Hi Björn! Thanks for your offer to help with the icons ... this is absolutely great and a real improvement in comparison to the "old days" ;-) Am Dienstag, den 07.12.2010, 18:23 +0100 schrieb Björn Balazs: > Don't want to get on your nerves with that - just want to show that it > could be quicker to find a solution by means of user based voting than > by a rational discussions under experts. Well, I think that the icon metaphors itself aren't the real problem - given the current time constraints. There is some symbolism we might even consider as "common"/"accepted"/"acceptable". It is rather to come up with something that emphasizes LibreOffice and keeping the known symbols ... personally, I still tend to (again: given the current time constraints) adapt the ODF icons. But since I miss the time to discuss that now, I have no vote ;-) Finally, if we agree on something for LibO 3.3, a quick test (having enough time left for improvements) would be great. Personally, I do hate the "do it quick" thing, but at the moment many of the options seem to be better then to a) ship icons that incorporate completely different branding visuals (OOo gulls, Sun S-curve), or b) ship icons that are known to be not accepted at all (plain ODF icons). > In any way - we can do icon testing with the next - community - > version. Definitively. Thanks again!!! Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Initial icon design
Hi Sebastian! Welcome, since I missed to say that until now :-) Am Mittwoch, den 08.12.2010, 08:56 +1100 schrieb Seb: > Sorry for just jumping in, perhaps this has been discussed before, but > why are we trying to make MIME type icons? Since Bernhard already replied on this, here is some more material for reference ... http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:ChristophNoack/Initial_MIME_Icons Bye, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Initial icon design
Hi Bernhard, sorry, I missed your mail and only minus twenty-eight minutes left ;-) Am Dienstag, den 07.12.2010, 16:51 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold: > > (I didn't want to mess around on Christoph's User page, therefore > uploaded these icons to the proposals page - Christoph, do you want > to > move this page to a public area: > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:ChristophNoack/Initial_MIME_Icons ?) Please "mess around", feel free to add anything what helps to continue with this topic. You may (if the system allows to) move this page to a more official place. I started it below my user page, because I wasn't sure whether it will be adopted ... and to keep the wiki clean, you know :-) I say goodbye for two days ... maybe read-only mode, since I'll try too keep track with my mobile. Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Initial icon design
Hi Seb, Seb schrieb: Hi, Sorry for just jumping in, perhaps this has been discussed before, but why are we trying to make MIME type icons? I refer to Mimetype icons as desktop representations for application, documents and templates. MIME types icons should have nothing to do with the application used to create your files. That would be a bit like Firefox or Chrome bundling in their own icon for html documents. On my Windows XP html files show the IE symbol, word documents the MS Office graphics and so on. Several file types use previews instead of symbols, but even if these might be the standard, the user can select between them. MIME icons are usually decide at the OS level (or Desktop environment Unix systems) or by the organization responsible for the file format. The fact is Windows will have it's own icons while Gnome, KDE, Haiku, AROS and what not might choose somthing else that fit their visual style better. This should be our job. At the moment LibreOffice contains the icons you mention below: Also Bernhard mentions the the goal is "to replace the OOo galaxy icon theme". Galaxy icons are UI icons aren't they? So we shouldn't we be working on icons like those found here http://ui.openoffice.org/VisualDesign/OOo_galaxy.html ? In fact, the full set of Mimetype icons is to be found here: http://ui.openoffice.org/VisualDesign/OOo30MimeType.html As you will see, these sets contain icons for documents and templates too. In my eyes it is quite important to avoid the impression that LibO is based on an old version of OOo (OOo changed their icons with version 3.2.1 to the mainly grey ODF icons) - and we are nearly too late to have them integrated in the product for the release of LibO 3.3.0. Also there seems to be confusion about application and MIME type icons. Sure we need to make and icons for each product(writer, calc, etc.) That was the reason for creating these icons - but not only the application icons should be replaced, the document and template icons are similar. But they don't have to look like a document. They can look like anything. As mentioned in my other mail (don't know if you had already been subscribed here), these icons are meant as interim solution until we have enough time for thorough investigation and community based design of a new icon set as well a community based LibreOffice branding. To avoid introducing new graphical elements that might be replaced in LibO 3.4 or 3.5, we just used the present branding: The TDF symbol and the LibO colors. The TDF symbol is document based, therefore our icons look like documents (I don't think this is a bad idea, BTW). But when we start developing the community branding all this will be able to be discussed and decided. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Initial icon design
Hi, Sorry for just jumping in, perhaps this has been discussed before, but why are we trying to make MIME type icons? MIME types icons should have nothing to do with the application used to create your files. That would be a bit like Firefox or Chrome bundling in their own icon for html documents. MIME icons are usually decide at the OS level (or Desktop environment Unix systems) or by the organization responsible for the file format. The fact is Windows will have it's own icons while Gnome, KDE, Haiku, AROS and what not might choose somthing else that fit their visual style better. This should be our job. Also Bernhard mentions the the goal is "to replace the OOo galaxy icon theme". Galaxy icons are UI icons aren't they? So we shouldn't we be working on icons like those found here http://ui.openoffice.org/VisualDesign/OOo_galaxy.html ? Also there seems to be confusion about application and MIME type icons. Sure we need to make and icons for each product(writer, calc, etc.) But they don't have to look like a document. They can look like anything. Seb. On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 6:48 AM, Bernhard Dippold wrote: > Hi again... > > I updated my template draft... > > Bernhard Dippold schrieb: >> >> [...] >> >> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding/Mimetype_Icons/Proposals#Bernhard_Dippold > > Please refresh your cache ;-) >> >> >> [...] >> >> While the document/application icons might work even in small sizes, >> they are not easy to discriminate from the template icons, when they use >> the same color for their borders. Removing the unfolded corner in the >> 16x16 icon changes the visual impression too much IMHO (last icon in the >> second line) >> >> Following Christoph's proposal I changed the color of the template icon >> borders to grey. > > Now the templates combine the grey border with a colored corner (filled like > the TDF icon and the app/doc icons). > > This improves color recognition and keeps consistency with the branding. > > Any comments? > > I'm working on the Calc icons now... > > Best regards > > Bernhard > > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org > List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/ > *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Initial icon design
Hi again... I updated my template draft... Bernhard Dippold schrieb: [...] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding/Mimetype_Icons/Proposals#Bernhard_Dippold Please refresh your cache ;-) [...] While the document/application icons might work even in small sizes, they are not easy to discriminate from the template icons, when they use the same color for their borders. Removing the unfolded corner in the 16x16 icon changes the visual impression too much IMHO (last icon in the second line) Following Christoph's proposal I changed the color of the template icon borders to grey. Now the templates combine the grey border with a colored corner (filled like the TDF icon and the app/doc icons). This improves color recognition and keeps consistency with the branding. Any comments? I'm working on the Calc icons now... Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Initial icon design
Hi Bernhard, Am Dienstag, 7. Dezember 2010, 17:49:31 schrieb Bernhard Dippold: > > following the icon discussion for only a couple of I days, I don't know > > the main intention for the icon design. > > The present design is meant to replace the OOo galaxy icon theme > included in LibO until now. > > We want to provide our own icons in LibO 3.3.0 so people don't think > LibreOffice is just an old-fashioned version of OpenOffice.org, because > it contains the icons OOo used only until version 3.2.0. > > As we already released the first release candidate for LibO 3.3.0 time > is extremely short: We probably don't have much more than a few days to > create our own icon set and include it in the package. > > There will very likely be a second release candidate, but nobody knows, > if we need a third one... > > Therefore we decided to create an "initial icon set" that should be > replaced by a "community icon set" for LibO 3.4 or LibO 3.5. > > This version will be discussed thoroughly - like the "community branding > design" that will replace our present "initial branding design" at the > same time. > > For the community design your idea of an icon test will probably be > considered - for the time being we don't have enough time... Thanks for your clarifications. I would just like to mention that if we have set of discussionable icons, I can offer to set up an icon test tomorrow - and if we jointly spread the word, we would get results within 2 or 3 days. Don't want to get on your nerves with that - just want to show that it could be quicker to find a solution by means of user based voting than by a rational discussions under experts. In any way - we can do icon testing with the next - community - version. Best, Björn -- www.OpenSource-Usability-Labs.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Initial icon design
Hi Björn, Björn Balazs schrieb: Hi all, following the icon discussion for only a couple of I days, I don't know the main intention for the icon design. The present design is meant to replace the OOo galaxy icon theme included in LibO until now. We want to provide our own icons in LibO 3.3.0 so people don't think LibreOffice is just an old-fashioned version of OpenOffice.org, because it contains the icons OOo used only until version 3.2.0. As we already released the first release candidate for LibO 3.3.0 time is extremely short: We probably don't have much more than a few days to create our own icon set and include it in the package. There will very likely be a second release candidate, but nobody knows, if we need a third one... Therefore we decided to create an "initial icon set" that should be replaced by a "community icon set" for LibO 3.4 or LibO 3.5. This version will be discussed thoroughly - like the "community branding design" that will replace our present "initial branding design" at the same time. For the community design your idea of an icon test will probably be considered - for the time being we don't have enough time... If you would like to understand what users like and understand best, I can offer that we conduct an icon test [1] with a set of icon suggestions. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Initial icon design
Hi all, following the icon discussion for only a couple of I days, I don't know the main intention for the icon design. If you would like to understand what users like and understand best, I can offer that we conduct an icon test [1] with a set of icon suggestions. Could that be helpful to foster the discussion? Best, Björn [1] http://www.icon-test.com Am Dienstag, 7. Dezember 2010, 16:51:06 schrieb Bernhard Dippold: > Hi all, > > I created first versions of Writer icons in different sizes and uploaded > them to the wiki: > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding/Mimetype_Icons/Proposa > ls#Bernhard_Dippold > > (I didn't want to mess around on Christoph's User page, therefore > uploaded these icons to the proposals page - Christoph, do you want to > move this page to a public area: > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:ChristophNoack/Initial_MIME_Icons ?) > > While the document/application icons might work even in small sizes, > they are not easy to discriminate from the template icons, when they use > the same color for their borders. Removing the unfolded corner in the > 16x16 icon changes the visual impression too much IMHO (last icon in the > second line) > > Following Christoph's proposal I changed the color of the template icon > borders to grey. > > Do you think this works better? > > Are these icons too colorless (reminding myself at the ODF icons...)? > > Thoughts ? Opinions ? > > Do you want me to go on with this design working on the other mimetype > icons? (Or is anybody interested to help me - not much more than C&P in > Inkscape ?) > > Best regards > > Bernhard -- www.OpenSource-Usability-Labs.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Initial icon design
Hi all, I created first versions of Writer icons in different sizes and uploaded them to the wiki: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding/Mimetype_Icons/Proposals#Bernhard_Dippold (I didn't want to mess around on Christoph's User page, therefore uploaded these icons to the proposals page - Christoph, do you want to move this page to a public area: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:ChristophNoack/Initial_MIME_Icons ?) While the document/application icons might work even in small sizes, they are not easy to discriminate from the template icons, when they use the same color for their borders. Removing the unfolded corner in the 16x16 icon changes the visual impression too much IMHO (last icon in the second line) Following Christoph's proposal I changed the color of the template icon borders to grey. Do you think this works better? Are these icons too colorless (reminding myself at the ODF icons...)? Thoughts ? Opinions ? Do you want me to go on with this design working on the other mimetype icons? (Or is anybody interested to help me - not much more than C&P in Inkscape ?) Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Initial icon design
Hi Christoph, all Christoph Noack schrieb: [...] This mail is about the MIME type icons - but this time, I don't want to share another draft, I'd rather like to summarize the current status of the discussion. Thus, I created a page below my user page and tried to collect the drafts, statements, requirements, discussion, ... If there is anything missing, please don't hesitate to make heavy use of it (add, move, ...). Thank you very much for this effort. One thing you might notice is another proposal "Rework ODF icons Set". You might agree that the ODF icons are a complete set that are visually pleasing - the main "problem" is the missing distinctiveness when it comes to the different file types. Since they are very similar (the gray shades) to the LibreOffice branding, they may serve as a starting point for an initial set. Thus, I picked some of the available PNGs and tweaked them - adding colored badges (e.g. Yellow ODG for Draw, Blue ODT for Writer), and also added the same color to the objects within the icons (very subtle). Personally, I think it would serve as a great interim solution - but at the moment I'm uncertain about the license. Therefore I hesitate to share them, until this is clarified. It's what we proposed on the OOo UX list more than one year ago ... But I can't help you with the license. My question about this topic on the UX list [1] stayed unreplied for about three weeks. I'm not really certain that we can understand this as agreement to my licensing question. Okay, but - at the moment - you might be more interested in the page I've already mentioned: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:ChristophNoack/Initial_MIME_Icons Ivan, Bernhard, Thorsten, ... please join! I added a line about my last version of the proposal I just uploaded to the wiki: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/d/d9/LibreOffice_Mimetype_icon_proposal_0.3.svg I didn't comment by now (time problem...), but I just want to mention, that the Tango icons you mentions are mainly meant for the menus, while the mimetype icons at the bottom show a pair of gulls in front of a circular symbol. I don't know if we really want to go this way. Sorry for not having more time at the moment - hopefully during the next days... Best regards Bernhard Oh, there is one thing left. It seems that things at work are getting a bit crazy (workload, unexpected business trip); along with some private stuff (still finalizing our move...), it is unlikely that I will be able to participate in any discussion from Wednesday to Monday :-( So perhaps we can discuss how to proceed until Tuesday? Best regards Bernhard PS: As RC1 has already been uploaded to the mirrors, time is more than short if we want to have other icons integrated in LibO3.3.0 than the present OOo galaxy ones. So please join our discussion *now*, work on improving the design we decide on and/or create small icon versions or high contrast icons from the existing ones. PPS: As we probably will need this when the icons have been created: Does anybody know how to create the .ICNS files I assume Mac will need? -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Initial icon design
Hi all1 Am Mittwoch, den 01.12.2010, 00:54 +0100 schrieb Christoph Noack: > Sorry for not being more talkative, > but it is already that late ... so, see you tomorrow! Well, tomorrow already passed, sorry! There was some unexpected private stuff that heavily "disturbed" the work on LibO. Grrr. This mail is about the MIME type icons - but this time, I don't want to share another draft, I'd rather like to summarize the current status of the discussion. Thus, I created a page below my user page and tried to collect the drafts, statements, requirements, discussion, ... If there is anything missing, please don't hesitate to make heavy use of it (add, move, ...). One thing you might notice is another proposal "Rework ODF icons Set". You might agree that the ODF icons are a complete set that are visually pleasing - the main "problem" is the missing distinctiveness when it comes to the different file types. Since they are very similar (the gray shades) to the LibreOffice branding, they may serve as a starting point for an initial set. Thus, I picked some of the available PNGs and tweaked them - adding colored badges (e.g. Yellow ODG for Draw, Blue ODT for Writer), and also added the same color to the objects within the icons (very subtle). Personally, I think it would serve as a great interim solution - but at the moment I'm uncertain about the license. Therefore I hesitate to share them, until this is clarified. Okay, but - at the moment - you might be more interested in the page I've already mentioned: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:ChristophNoack/Initial_MIME_Icons Ivan, Bernhard, Thorsten, ... please join! Oh, there is one thing left. It seems that things at work are getting a bit crazy (workload, unexpected business trip); along with some private stuff (still finalizing our move...), it is unlikely that I will be able to participate in any discussion from Wednesday to Monday :-( Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Initial icon design
Hi Jaron, nice to have you (somehow) back :-) Sorry for not being more talkative, but it is already that late ... so, see you tomorrow! Cheers, Christoph Am Dienstag, den 30.11.2010, 17:40 -0500 schrieb Jaron Kuppers: > P.S. For those of you who don't know me, I contributed to the OOo UX > experience group in the past and recently switched over to help here > at Libre office. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Initial icon design
Hi Christoph and Bernhard, Just one small comment, I joined the group halfway through the current email thread so I may have missed something. In regards to what Christoph wrote: On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 5:06 PM, Christoph Noack wrote: > Given the fact, that time is running ... I'm totally fine with that. So > as far as I understand, we end up with: > * 1 LibreOffice main icon (derived from the document symbol) > * n LibreOffice document icons = application icons > * n LibreOffice document template icons > My preference would be that the "Document" icons [1] be both the "application" and "document" icons (as opposed to the current "Application" icons being both). Cheers, Jaron [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Draft1_2.png P.S. For those of you who don't know me, I contributed to the OOo UX experience group in the past and recently switched over to help here at Libre office. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Initial icon design
Hi Bernhard, good point ... :-) Am Dienstag, den 30.11.2010, 01:03 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold: > Sorry for being unclear - my question is: Why can't we use the same > icons for application and documents? > > Who needs to differ between application and document? Well, as I said, it is common to provide different application icons - but you are right that we do have a "special case". There is almost no (at least, I don't know about any) application that is a) one application, that b) provides different modules, and that c) supports that many file formats. Just a side note (I forgot to add this in my last mail): The document symbol is - of course - also a "promotional" / "branding" element. But this would be kept for case "a". Finally, as we say in German (you know), "special problems require special solutions" ;-) Given the fact, that time is running ... I'm totally fine with that. So as far as I understand, we end up with: * 1 LibreOffice main icon (derived from the document symbol) * n LibreOffice document icons = application icons * n LibreOffice document template icons Correct? The one thing, I'm still thinking about is, whether we should keep the common document metaphor (dog-ear style) for the document icons and the templates. @ Ivan, Thorsten, Bernhard, ... I'm sorry that I am a bit less creative how to proceed. The last days (and also the upcoming) at work were/will be very hard ... so I'm happy if anybody could take care of that. Of course, I'm still around for discussions or helping with the icons. Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Initial icon design
Hi Christoph, * thanks for the UX thoughts... Christoph Noack schrieb: Hi Bernhard, here, I'd like to offer a rough guess ... Am Montag, den 29.11.2010, 11:48 +0100 schrieb Dr. Bernhard Dippold: What is the UX reason for providing three sets of icons besides a combined set for application/documents and another one for templates? Because it is common behavior :-) One reason for that (I think) is, that many software applications support numerous file types. Thus, several file type icons relate to one "main" software applications (e.g. think of graphic files being displayed by one tool). This would lead us to using only the main application icon and not providing direct access to the separate modules... Why not? - Who opens an empty Writer file by clicking on the module executive file? (I always start with LibO main application and feel a bit uncomfortable with the eight LibO entries in my applications menu) In LibO, we do have these separate modules (e.g. Writer, Calc, ...), the main software icon (e.g. on Mac OS X for calling the StartCenter). Consequently, there is a need to supply at least some module / application icons. Especially since we are somehow bound to the desktop user interface guidelines, or at least, common behavior. Data type icons don't show up in the Start menu, for example. Sorry for being unclear - my question is: Why can't we use the same icons for application and documents? Who needs to differ between application and document? (Only if we keep on to provide the different sub-module starters) Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Initial icon design
Hi Bernhard, here, I'd like to offer a rough guess ... Am Montag, den 29.11.2010, 11:48 +0100 schrieb Dr. Bernhard Dippold: > What is the UX reason for providing three sets of icons besides a > combined set for application/documents and another one for templates? Because it is common behavior :-) One reason for that (I think) is, that many software applications support numerous file types. Thus, several file type icons relate to one "main" software applications (e.g. think of graphic files being displayed by one tool). In LibO, we do have these separate modules (e.g. Writer, Calc, ...), the main software icon (e.g. on Mac OS X for calling the StartCenter). Consequently, there is a need to supply at least some module / application icons. Especially since we are somehow bound to the desktop user interface guidelines, or at least, common behavior. Data type icons don't show up in the Start menu, for example. As I said, this is my take on it ... there hasn't been any further research or depth analysis :-) Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Initial icon design [was: Product Artwork]
Hi Ivan, Bernhard, all! Am Montag, den 29.11.2010, 00:10 +1300 schrieb Ivan M.: > Hi Bernhard, Christoph, all, > > This is a little late, but when putting things into practice, small > details come up. Isn't that usual? ;-) > First, the good part: I managed to get some headway in Inkscape and > create basic designs for 16x16 and 32x32 document icons that are > pixel-perfect (the preview image doesn't show this) [1]. Cool, thanks! > They're missing the application icons > [...] > I'll leave that for someone more skilled. [in Inkscape] Hey, I'm more than happy that you changed the tool in order to improve our collaboration :-) And, I think there will be some more minor iterations, so the application icons might wait (a second, or two). > Now, the ambiguous part: working with the color pallet at [2], I found > some small points of possible improvement. [...] > That doesn't mean I propose we use these colors, but > rather that we make small adjustments to the existing color table. It > would be ideal if we could use the same corresponding colors from each > set of colors (i.e. use Blue 1 for the Writer icon where Green 1 is > used in the Calc icon...) Yep, of course. Although I did some designs in advance, I noticed this for the icons as well. Although I had hoped to have some final colors to enable the guys who (might have started) the marketing material, slight changes might be possible. Now the good message from my side: Since we do have this weird Calc table [1] for creating the palettes, the is not that much hazzle. > I will comment on Bernhard's design tomorrow - hopefully what I just > wrote makes some sense :) Well, I also added some icons to the wiki - to be viewed in Inkscape, please. Although there are pixel-perfect, the remaining stuff is more pixel than perfect (color gradient issues, unnecessarily stacked objects, ...). Personally, I still don't like them that much, but it should work. Since some of us talked about to keep the "TDF Document Symbol" as clean as possible, I went back to use the old metaphor with the "dog-ear" edge. Okay, here they are: [2]. Some organizational stuff ... Today, I've asked concerning the MIME type icons for the LibO 3.3 release within the SC phone conference [3]. Although we need to wait a bit longer for the minutes, here is the (hopefully) essential information: * Technically, a release is possible at the end of December, but people think that this might not be the best time (Christmas), thus early January will be targeted. * Changing the icons is possible and the chance for introducing "regressions" seems rather low. But, ... * People might have started to create marketing material (screenshots etc.). Thus, they might rely on a stable version that does not change during the next weeks. Thus, the changes are not that bad, or? Personally, I do think that a visually pleasing and consistent release might be more important than some screenshots that might differ a bit. So, what if we want to work on that? I had a look at the OOo pages concerning the ODF icons. They do have a good document covering the file types and the icons [4] - I hope that helps to ensure completeness on our side. Bernhard, Ivan, all! Thanks for your great work to make LibO 3.3 not only an unique, but a truly great release ;-) Cheers, Christoph [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding#Resources_3 [2] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding/Mimetype_Icons/Proposals#Christoph [3] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TDF/Steering_Committee_Meetings#Agenda_2010-11-28 [4] http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/w/images/0/0c/Oo-filedlg-filetypes.odt -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Initial icon design [was: Product Artwork]
Hi Bernhard, Christoph, all, This is a little late, but when putting things into practice, small details come up. First, the good part: I managed to get some headway in Inkscape and create basic designs for 16x16 and 32x32 document icons that are pixel-perfect (the preview image doesn't show this) [1]. They're missing the application icons - I tried to adapt existing ones from my own designs and Bernhard's designs, but in order to be pixel-perfect, they have to be drawn specially for smaller icon sizes, otherwise there is quite a lot of distortion, particularly at 16x16. Since I'm no good at manipulating objects in Inkscape, I'll leave that for someone more skilled. Now, the ambiguous part: working with the color pallet at [2], I found some small points of possible improvement. Mostly that applies to perceived lightness of colors (which, in my experience, is not always equivalent to the actual luminosity value in the HSL color model). For example, Green 4 appears much lighter than Blue 4, so that a gradient that goes from Green 4 to Green 3 appears more distinct than a gradient that goes from Blue 4 to Blue 3. At the same time, a gradient from Blue 2 to Blue 1 appears darker than a gradient going from Green 2 to Green 1 - try it out and let me know if you see it that way too. Based on this, I created a reference image [3] that (for me at least) had the greatest apparent consistency between designs. It's imperfect, but out of all the possible combinations, this worked best subjectively. That doesn't mean I propose we use these colors, but rather that we make small adjustments to the existing color table. It would be ideal if we could use the same corresponding colors from each set of colors (i.e. use Blue 1 for the Writer icon where Green 1 is used in the Calc icon...) I will comment on Bernhard's design tomorrow - hopefully what I just wrote makes some sense :) Regards, Ivan. [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:IvanIconDraft.svg [2] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding#Color_Table [3] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/9/9d/IvanIconDraftReference.png -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Initial icon design [was: Product Artwork]
Hi Ivan, hi Bernhard! Just an "argh", since I just read your message. Yesterday, I visited some frieds, today I fiddled around with MythTV and a huge stack of organization stuff (that has been pushed forward some weeks). And to avoid LibO distraction, I didn't even touch the keyboard :-) So sorry for having not noticed your mail (besides any timezone issue). Am Samstag, den 27.11.2010, 21:07 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold: > Will be working on the next icons during the next hours... By the way, if something is really important, ping anybody within the TDF or Bernhard. They can easily get in touch with me via phone... Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Initial icon design [was: Product Artwork]
Sorry Ivan, timeshift problem... I just updated my SVG with a first version of a Writer icon: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Template_icon_draft.svg Will be working on the next icons during the next hours... Best Bernhard Ivan M. schrieb: Hi Bernhard, Christoph, On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Bernhard Dippold wrote: Ivan M. schrieb: Hi Christoph, Bernhard, all, I wonder if we could work together some time over a few hours on something like IRC - at least initially. I will be online tomorrow from around 9pm your time (CET), so if you happen to be free, reply to this thread with the mode of communication you prefer, or a different time that suits you. I'll try to be at IRC. Aargh, my bad. I got the time right, but I got the date wrong (I was hoping for a reply 24 hours ago)! I will be out most of the day today - I was just about to leave and I saw this. I'll try to do some more work on this and upload a file tonight (that will be early Sunday morning for you) - use this opportunity to catch up on your sleep :) Regards, Ivan. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Initial icon design [was: Product Artwork]
Hi Bernhard, Christoph, On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Bernhard Dippold wrote: > Ivan M. schrieb: >> >> Hi Christoph, Bernhard, all, >> >> I wonder if we could work together some time over a few hours on >> something like IRC - at least initially. I will be online tomorrow >> from around 9pm your time (CET), so if you happen to be free, reply to >> this thread with the mode of communication you prefer, or a different >> time that suits you. > > I'll try to be at IRC. Aargh, my bad. I got the time right, but I got the date wrong (I was hoping for a reply 24 hours ago)! I will be out most of the day today - I was just about to leave and I saw this. I'll try to do some more work on this and upload a file tonight (that will be early Sunday morning for you) - use this opportunity to catch up on your sleep :) Regards, Ivan. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Initial icon design [was: Product Artwork]
Ivan M. schrieb: Hi Christoph, Bernhard, all, I wonder if we could work together some time over a few hours on something like IRC - at least initially. I will be online tomorrow from around 9pm your time (CET), so if you happen to be free, reply to this thread with the mode of communication you prefer, or a different time that suits you. I'll try to be at IRC. Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Initial icon design [was: Product Artwork]
Le 2010-11-26 04:51, Ivan M. a écrit : Hi Christoph, Bernhard, all, I wonder if we could work together some time over a few hours on something like IRC - at least initially. I will be online tomorrow from around 9pm your time (CET), so if you happen to be free, reply to this thread with the mode of communication you prefer, or a different time that suits you. I, for one, am not very experienced with Inkscape so it would be useful to swap files between each other as we work on them - of course anyone interested is welcome to join and we can keep the list updated with all progress. Regards, Ivan. You may want to arrange for a dedicated irc channel. It would probably be more efficient and won' t confuse other members on the main LO irc channel. If the channel is always available then, at the very least, will give the design team members channel access to work with. Marc -- Marc Paré http://www.parEntreprise.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Initial icon design [was: Product Artwork]
Hi Christoph, Bernhard, all, I wonder if we could work together some time over a few hours on something like IRC - at least initially. I will be online tomorrow from around 9pm your time (CET), so if you happen to be free, reply to this thread with the mode of communication you prefer, or a different time that suits you. I, for one, am not very experienced with Inkscape so it would be useful to swap files between each other as we work on them - of course anyone interested is welcome to join and we can keep the list updated with all progress. Regards, Ivan. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Initial icon design [was: Product Artwork]
Hi Christoph, Christoph Noack schrieb: Hi Bernhard, I already decided to go to bed ... so just a few thoughts. Me too ;-) Am Donnerstag, den 25.11.2010, 23:03 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold: Ivan, Christoph, everybody else: Do you have an other / better proposal we can agree upon during the next hours ? You proposals look fine for me. But, do we really need additional colors for less used applications / files like Math, Macros, HTML, Global Documents, ... Wouldn't it be better to use a neutral gray (and only for those icons)? As Math seems to be an independent application (with it's own file extension) I thought it would be necessary. Same for Chart documents. But these thoughts derive from the Galaxy icons - I don't mind at all, if we stay grey/neutral with all of the less used icons. In contrast to the ODF approach, this would even help to better identify the "real" documents. And, it would also reduce the amount of initial work to be spent. The only question to me is, whether we want to use the "original" Document Symbol for that. The branding guidelines currently state to not modify the document symbol - so maybe changing the "edge" back to mimic a default icon? The "empty corner" idea was only meant for template icons - document and application icons should have the "filled corner" as the default icons. I thought it would be an easy approach to differentiate between documents and templates while keeping the branding language. But you might be right that this could be regarded as "allowed modification to the symbol" for other use-cases too. I'm indecisive at the moment - it depends on how we modify the main part of the icons... And of course: Thank you both! It seems that you both don't need any sleep ;-) I definitely do! Good night! Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Initial icon design [was: Product Artwork]
Hi Bernhard, I already decided to go to bed ... so just a few thoughts. Am Donnerstag, den 25.11.2010, 23:03 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold: > Ivan, Christoph, everybody else: Do you have an other / better > proposal we can agree upon during the next hours ? You proposals look fine for me. But, do we really need additional colors for less used applications / files like Math, Macros, HTML, Global Documents, ... Wouldn't it be better to use a neutral gray (and only for those icons)? In contrast to the ODF approach, this would even help to better identify the "real" documents. And, it would also reduce the amount of initial work to be spent. The only question to me is, whether we want to use the "original" Document Symbol for that. The branding guidelines currently state to not modify the document symbol - so maybe changing the "edge" back to mimic a default icon? And of course: Thank you both! It seems that you both don't need any sleep ;-) Good night! Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Initial icon design [was: Product Artwork]
Going to bed now - if anybody wants to use what I started to work on, here is the SVG source file: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Bedipp/Drafts Bernhard Dippold schrieb: [...] As an easy approach I'd just remove the filling of the colored corner for templates. That's what I did by now - and used the present branding colors, added Blue3 for Math and a dark green for Chart documents/templates. I imagine some kind of inverted filling of the icons (becoming lighter in general) - perhaps with inverted symbols too... Fell free to use my work as a basis for yours, or Ivan's (if he could share his sources - I don't want to recreate the symbols being simple and recognizable). We should have a basic design tomorrow or at least on Saturday in order to create the different sizes (and perhaps high contrast icons too). Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
