Re: GNOME user survey 2011
On 08/01/2011 12:11 AM, Felipe Contreras wrote: > lately I've feeling that there's a lot of dissatisfaction > with GNOME 3. I feel this is highly suggestive. Besides we knew 3.0 was a DOT ZERO release. GNOME needed the software to be out there to gather feedback and 'help the code to mature' (that's an automatic magical process ;-) ). 3.2 is coming out in September and a lot of issues are addressed there. Shouldn't it be more judicious to wait for a more polished GNOME 3.x to be in the hands of users to ask for feedback? Fred ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GNOME user survey 2011
On Mon, Aug 01, 2011 at 12:16:54AM +0300, Felipe Contreras wrote: > On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 11:14 PM, Olav Vitters wrote: > > On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 07:11:34PM +0300, Felipe Contreras wrote: > >> Many of these are borrowed from the Git user survey. The results as > >> you can see, can be quite interesting: > >> https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/GitSurvey2010 > >> > >> It would be great if some sort of notification would popup directly on > >> user's desktops, this way it can ensured that the maximum amount of > >> people are notified. Otherwise, I think planet GNOME, reddit, twitter, > > > > That's impossible. > > Everything is possible. > > >> Google+ and so on should give plenty of feedback. Maybe also contact > >> Ars Technica, LWN, Phornix, and so on would help. > > > > Those are only technical sites. I think the results are going to be > > biased whatever you do. > > How do you suggest to reach the end users if you already dismissed a > pop up directly from the desktop? If there isn't any way, at least > it's better than nothing. I didn't dismiss. I said it was impossible to popup a notification. Survey is only good if either the bias can be determined, or if it is unbiased. As mentioned, I think it will be biased, so the survey should have some questions to determine the bias. > >> === 03. How do you describe the amount of configurations available? === > > > > I don't see the relevance of asking this. Furthermore the question is > > suggestive. Seems more to prove a point than anything else. > > I do see the relevance, as I think it has been a big point of > contention raised by many users. Something should be done with a survey. No matter the outcome of this question, you won't be able to take these results and change things. Asking if people want more configuration options goes against why options are removed. Ideally everything should happen automatically. I'm only interested in the cases where it doesn't work. > If you don't think it's very important, it could go to the end. > Besides, if the results are overwhelmingly pointing to "Too few"? > Don't you think it would be worth investigating? If the results end up > being "Just enough", then no harm done. The question is suggestive so the results will be biased. It is better to ask something like "does GNOME do what you want?" and then have a text field where they can specify what GNOME lacks. > >> === 04. Which GNOME version(s) are you using? === > > > > This should be asked earlier. > > Where? before #3. IMO the questions should be ordered so that the basic/factual stuff is first, possibly ask what they like, then questions where you just say what you feel, and every improvement suggestion should come last. > >> === 05. How do you compare the current GNOME version with the version > >> from one year ago? === > > > > This is vague. Current as in GNOME 3.2 / 3.0, or current as in the > > version that they are using. Furthermore, you don't know if they upgrade > > each year. > > Obviously it's the one they are using, otherwise how would they compare? That should be made clear in the question, otherwise it will be interpreted differently and the results are biased. > Would this help? > How do you compare your current GNOME version with the version from > one year ago? Like it. > >> === 06. What channel(s) do you use to request help about GNOME (if any)? > >> === > > > > With what purpose is this asked? No support is given on GNOME Bugzilla. > > Only minimal on gnome-list. > > It's important to have a two-way communication with the users, don't > you think? So it's important to figure out what channels they actually > use. In fact, I was thinking to add another question asking if they > feel there's lack of communication with the team. I don't see giving support as: * something which shouldn't be done * two-way communication * a way that contributors communicate amongst each other However, we don't really give support. It would be nice to do more, but.. it is not done that much (bit on IRC, mailing lists, some forums). Though I'll say beforehand that I see support as separate from a developer task. > Resolving bugs is also support. But feel free to rephrase the question > to find out how users provide any kind feedback; questions, bug > reports, issues, etc. I again disagree. A support issue can be caused by a bug. Such a bug can be a requirement to solve the support issue. But this doesn't mean fixing bugs is support. I still do not see the relevance of this question. Perhaps we could ask where they learned of the survey? > >> === 08. Do you have any comments or suggestions for the GNOME team? === > > > > How will you handle all the various comments you'll get? Git received > > 9000 answers.. who is going to read them all and summarize? > > I would, if nobody takes the task. Most likely I will miss a lot of > important stuff if I'm the only one. But it is important to ask this, > as the survey is bound to be i
Re: GNOME user survey 2011
On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 11:14 PM, Olav Vitters wrote: > On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 07:11:34PM +0300, Felipe Contreras wrote: >> Many of these are borrowed from the Git user survey. The results as >> you can see, can be quite interesting: >> https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/GitSurvey2010 >> >> It would be great if some sort of notification would popup directly on >> user's desktops, this way it can ensured that the maximum amount of >> people are notified. Otherwise, I think planet GNOME, reddit, twitter, > > That's impossible. Everything is possible. >> Google+ and so on should give plenty of feedback. Maybe also contact >> Ars Technica, LWN, Phornix, and so on would help. > > Those are only technical sites. I think the results are going to be > biased whatever you do. How do you suggest to reach the end users if you already dismissed a pop up directly from the desktop? If there isn't any way, at least it's better than nothing. >> === 03. How do you describe the amount of configurations available? === > > I don't see the relevance of asking this. Furthermore the question is > suggestive. Seems more to prove a point than anything else. I do see the relevance, as I think it has been a big point of contention raised by many users. If you don't think it's very important, it could go to the end. Besides, if the results are overwhelmingly pointing to "Too few"? Don't you think it would be worth investigating? If the results end up being "Just enough", then no harm done. >> === 04. Which GNOME version(s) are you using? === > > This should be asked earlier. Where? >> === 05. How do you compare the current GNOME version with the version >> from one year ago? === > > This is vague. Current as in GNOME 3.2 / 3.0, or current as in the > version that they are using. Furthermore, you don't know if they upgrade > each year. Obviously it's the one they are using, otherwise how would they compare? Would this help? How do you compare your current GNOME version with the version from one year ago? >> === 06. What channel(s) do you use to request help about GNOME (if any)? === > > With what purpose is this asked? No support is given on GNOME Bugzilla. > Only minimal on gnome-list. It's important to have a two-way communication with the users, don't you think? So it's important to figure out what channels they actually use. In fact, I was thinking to add another question asking if they feel there's lack of communication with the team. Resolving bugs is also support. But feel free to rephrase the question to find out how users provide any kind feedback; questions, bug reports, issues, etc. >> === 08. Do you have any comments or suggestions for the GNOME team? === > > How will you handle all the various comments you'll get? Git received > 9000 answers.. who is going to read them all and summarize? I would, if nobody takes the task. Most likely I will miss a lot of important stuff if I'm the only one. But it is important to ask this, as the survey is bound to be imperfect, and this is the only place where people can actually suggest what to add to the next survey (indirectly). > Things I'd like to know: > - Multiple choice options to understand the responders technical > skills. So if they've submitted a patch, contributed code somewhere, > paid to write software, maintain some open source code, etc. > That is IMO a nicer way to understand their skills can someone to > rate themselves. How about Zeeshan's suggestion of asking how often they use the terminal? > - If they use KDE/XFCE/something That's confusing. You mean if they switch between GNOME and those? Or that they used to use GNOME, and now they use that one? How about: Which other desktop environments have you used? > - other things to later on be able to determine if the survey is biased > in some way. Don't have concrete ideas atm. Well, how are you going to determine if the survey is biased in some way, or it's the actual GNOME users that are biased in some way? Either way, I think the only important bias is geekness. -- Felipe Contreras ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GNOME user survey 2011
On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 07:11:34PM +0300, Felipe Contreras wrote: > Many of these are borrowed from the Git user survey. The results as > you can see, can be quite interesting: > https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/GitSurvey2010 > > It would be great if some sort of notification would popup directly on > user's desktops, this way it can ensured that the maximum amount of > people are notified. Otherwise, I think planet GNOME, reddit, twitter, That's impossible. > Google+ and so on should give plenty of feedback. Maybe also contact > Ars Technica, LWN, Phornix, and so on would help. Those are only technical sites. I think the results are going to be biased whatever you do. > === 01. Overall, how happy are you with GNOME? === I like this one. > === 02. How long have you been using GNOME? === This one too. > === 03. How do you describe the amount of configurations available? === I don't see the relevance of asking this. Furthermore the question is suggestive. Seems more to prove a point than anything else. > === 04. Which GNOME version(s) are you using? === This should be asked earlier. > === 05. How do you compare the current GNOME version with the version > from one year ago? === This is vague. Current as in GNOME 3.2 / 3.0, or current as in the version that they are using. Furthermore, you don't know if they upgrade each year. > === 06. What channel(s) do you use to request help about GNOME (if any)? === With what purpose is this asked? No support is given on GNOME Bugzilla. Only minimal on gnome-list. > === 07. Does GNOME include code or documentation by you? === Suggest adding translations as well. > === 08. Do you have any comments or suggestions for the GNOME team? === How will you handle all the various comments you'll get? Git received 9000 answers.. who is going to read them all and summarize? Things I'd like to know: - Multiple choice options to understand the responders technical skills. So if they've submitted a patch, contributed code somewhere, paid to write software, maintain some open source code, etc. That is IMO a nicer way to understand their skills can someone to rate themselves. - If they use KDE/XFCE/something - other things to later on be able to determine if the survey is biased in some way. Don't have concrete ideas atm. -- Regards, Olav ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GNOME user survey 2011
On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 09:29:07PM +0300, Felipe Contreras wrote: > Was it really necessary for you to point that out? This is not helping. Stop it now please. -- Regards, Olav (moderator) ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GNOME user survey 2011
On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 7:40 PM, Zeeshan Ali (Khattak) wrote: > On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 7:11 PM, Felipe Contreras > wrote: >> Last time I suggested something like this the response was not so >> great, but lately I've feeling that there's a lot of dissatisfaction >> with GNOME 3. Why not find for good what people are thinking with an >> user-survey? > > Was it really necessary to start your mail with negativity? Was it really necessary for you to point that out? >> It would be great if some sort of notification would popup directly on >> user's desktops, this way it can ensured that the maximum amount of >> people are notified. > > Assuming user is given the choice at first login if he/she wants to > participate, it is indeed a good idea. Would you be providing patches > for this? Maybe. If people agree to apply them. >> Otherwise, I think planet GNOME, reddit, twitter, >> Google+ and so on should give plenty of feedback. Maybe also contact >> Ars Technica, LWN, Phornix, and so on would help. > > Those sites will surely get us plenty of geeks but as I said to you > in person when I asked you to make this survey happen, there must be > at least 10% participation from people who can't be put in the 'geek' > category: ordinary people in non-technical professions. One way to > check that would be to ask a few simple questions like: > > * How often do you use terminal/console? * What is that? * When I have no other option * I always have some open * Is there anything else? I think that should be enough to distinguish geeks from "normal" users. > Also, most people are still on facebook so better advertise this on > facebook gnome3 page too. Yes. > Other than that, the questionare you came-up looks good. :) Thanks. Kudos go to the Git project, which has refined some of these questions over the years. -- Felipe Contreras ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GNOME user survey 2011
On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Felipe Contreras wrote: > === 07. Does GNOME include code or documentation by you? === > (single choice) > > * Yes > * No … or translations, or artwork… maybe even other forms of contributions I can't think of at the moment? Maybe this should be made more generic? -- Alexandre Franke ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GNOME user survey 2011
On Sun, 2011-07-31 at 19:58 +0300, Felipe Contreras wrote: > On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Maciej Piechotka > wrote: > > On Sun, 2011-07-31 at 19:40 +0300, Zeeshan Ali (Khattak) wrote: > >> On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 7:11 PM, Felipe Contreras > >> wrote: > >> > It would be great if some sort of notification would popup directly on > >> > user's desktops, this way it can ensured that the maximum amount of > >> > people are notified. > >> > >> Assuming user is given the choice at first login if he/she wants to > >> participate, it is indeed a good idea. Would you be providing patches > >> for this? > > > > I don't think first login fits well in questions. If the questions are > > bout Gnome experience then user should have any before answering the > > questions. > What did I do to English grammar in that e-mail? I hope no one who ever taught me this language is subscribed to DDL ML... > My idea was to have a GNOME notifications package, or something, that > would connect to a site, and then fetch any relevant notifications. > The notification in this case would be a link to the online > user-survey, and nothing else. > > Of course, the user should have the option to disable such > notifications (perhaps even from the notification itself), but given > than they would probably happen only a few times per year, I don't > think there such a big hurry to have that option (if needed at all). > I think any software which calls homes needs clearly inform user and ask for permission (except if it is in the nature of software like package manager). Regards signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GNOME user survey 2011
On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Maciej Piechotka wrote: > On Sun, 2011-07-31 at 19:40 +0300, Zeeshan Ali (Khattak) wrote: >> On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 7:11 PM, Felipe Contreras >> wrote: >> > It would be great if some sort of notification would popup directly on >> > user's desktops, this way it can ensured that the maximum amount of >> > people are notified. >> >> Assuming user is given the choice at first login if he/she wants to >> participate, it is indeed a good idea. Would you be providing patches >> for this? > > I don't think first login fits well in questions. If the questions are > bout Gnome experience then user should have any before answering the > questions. My idea was to have a GNOME notifications package, or something, that would connect to a site, and then fetch any relevant notifications. The notification in this case would be a link to the online user-survey, and nothing else. Of course, the user should have the option to disable such notifications (perhaps even from the notification itself), but given than they would probably happen only a few times per year, I don't think there such a big hurry to have that option (if needed at all). -- Felipe Contreras ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GNOME user survey 2011
On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Maciej Piechotka wrote: > On Sun, 2011-07-31 at 19:40 +0300, Zeeshan Ali (Khattak) wrote: >> On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 7:11 PM, Felipe Contreras >> wrote: >> > It would be great if some sort of notification would popup directly on >> > user's desktops, this way it can ensured that the maximum amount of >> > people are notified. >> >> Assuming user is given the choice at first login if he/she wants to >> participate, it is indeed a good idea. Would you be providing patches >> for this? >> > > I don't think first login fits well in questions. If the questions are > bout Gnome experience then user should have any before answering the > questions. I meant the choice of whether or not he/she wants to be bugged by pop-ups. Whether at login or not, we must not force user to take part in any surveys or there will be no positive replies. :) -- Regards, Zeeshan Ali (Khattak) FSF member#5124 ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GNOME user survey 2011
On Sun, 2011-07-31 at 19:40 +0300, Zeeshan Ali (Khattak) wrote: > On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 7:11 PM, Felipe Contreras > wrote: > > It would be great if some sort of notification would popup directly on > > user's desktops, this way it can ensured that the maximum amount of > > people are notified. > > Assuming user is given the choice at first login if he/she wants to > participate, it is indeed a good idea. Would you be providing patches > for this? > I don't think first login fits well in questions. If the questions are bout Gnome experience then user should have any before answering the questions. Regards signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GNOME user survey 2011
On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 7:11 PM, Felipe Contreras wrote: > Hi, > > Last time I suggested something like this the response was not so > great, but lately I've feeling that there's a lot of dissatisfaction > with GNOME 3. Why not find for good what people are thinking with an > user-survey? Was it really necessary to start your mail with negativity? > It would be great if some sort of notification would popup directly on > user's desktops, this way it can ensured that the maximum amount of > people are notified. Assuming user is given the choice at first login if he/she wants to participate, it is indeed a good idea. Would you be providing patches for this? > Otherwise, I think planet GNOME, reddit, twitter, > Google+ and so on should give plenty of feedback. Maybe also contact > Ars Technica, LWN, Phornix, and so on would help. Those sites will surely get us plenty of geeks but as I said to you in person when I asked you to make this survey happen, there must be at least 10% participation from people who can't be put in the 'geek' category: ordinary people in non-technical professions. One way to check that would be to ask a few simple questions like: * How often do you use terminal/console? * How do you rate your computer skills from 1-10. * etc Also, most people are still on facebook so better advertise this on facebook gnome3 page too. Other than that, the questionare you came-up looks good. :) -- Regards, Zeeshan Ali (Khattak) FSF member#5124 ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GNOME user survey 2011
Hi! Not a bad idea overall though of course the user base for such surveys is always a bit limited as many poeple don't even know that they use GNOME and those a probably the majority of the users. Anyway, might be interesting. > === 01. Overall, how happy are you with GNOME? === > (single choice) > > * unhappy > * not so happy > * happy > * very happy > * completely ecstatic "Happy" doesn't seem to describe that very well IMHO. Maybe there could be a better term for a general impression as many poeple aren't happy to use a computer at all. > === 04. Which GNOME version(s) are you using? === > (multiple choice, with other) > > + 3.0 > + 2.20 - 3.0 should be 2.20 - 2.32, right? Because otherwise there would be a multiple choice for 3.0. Same for the others. I think querying the used distribution could be interesting as some (Ubuntu, Mint, etc) modify GNOME quite a lot. Regards, Johannes ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GNOME user survey 2011
On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 17:11, Felipe Contreras wrote: > It would be great if some sort of notification would popup directly on > user's desktops, this way it can ensured that the maximum amount of > people are notified. I hope this is a joke. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
GNOME user survey 2011
Hi, Last time I suggested something like this the response was not so great, but lately I've feeling that there's a lot of dissatisfaction with GNOME 3. Why not find for good what people are thinking with an user-survey? I looked around for different online survey sites and unfortunately many have many limitations, but questionpro.com seems to have support for free surveys with unlimited amount of responses, which is presumably what we would want to get the maximum amount of feedback. Many of these are borrowed from the Git user survey. The results as you can see, can be quite interesting: https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/GitSurvey2010 It would be great if some sort of notification would popup directly on user's desktops, this way it can ensured that the maximum amount of people are notified. Otherwise, I think planet GNOME, reddit, twitter, Google+ and so on should give plenty of feedback. Maybe also contact Ars Technica, LWN, Phornix, and so on would help. Here's my current proposal, I tried to make it as small as possible while keeping important information, it should take a bit more than a minute to complete. What do you think? === 01. Overall, how happy are you with GNOME? === (single choice) * unhappy * not so happy * happy * very happy * completely ecstatic === 02. How long have you been using GNOME? === (numeric) === 03. How do you describe the amount of configurations available? === (single choice) * More than I need * Just enough * Too few === 04. Which GNOME version(s) are you using? === (multiple choice, with other) + 3.0 + 2.20 - 3.0 + 2.10 - 2.20 + 2.0 - 2.10 + pre 2.0 + other, please specify === 05. How do you compare the current GNOME version with the version from one year ago? === (single choice) * better * no changes * worse * cannot say === 06. What channel(s) do you use to request help about GNOME (if any)? === (multiple choice, with other) + GNOME bugzilla + GNOME mailing list + IRC (#gnome) + asking colleague/friend + instant messaging (IM) like XMPP/Jabber + StackOverflow or other StackExchange site + N/A (haven't requested help) + other (please specify) === 07. Does GNOME include code or documentation by you? === (single choice) * Yes * No === 08. Do you have any comments or suggestions for the GNOME team? === (free form) -- Felipe Contreras ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
