Re: Thoughs about communication

[Matthew Hodgson]

> On 3 Feb 2017, at 13:00, Alexandre Franke  wrote:
> 
> So we don't have to/can't choose channels that are bridged. Not in a
> whitelist fashion. We can however mark specific channels as private
> (for those with sensitive discussions).
> 
> Matthew, anything blocking the bridging on our side?

Nothing blocking at all; it's all on our side, which has ended up blocked on 
FOSDEM - we've had to prioritise a sprint to ship new releases for FOSDEM and 
are currently all on trains to Brussels. It's top of the IRC bridging backlog 
and we should get to it early next week. Sorry for the delay...

M

-- 
Matthew Hodgson
Matrix.org
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Re: Thoughs about communication

[Alexandre Franke]

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 1:43 PM, Carlos Soriano via desktop-devel-list
 wrote:
> Should we go ahead then? Sri, let's go with #gnome and #engagement for now?
> If the bridge works out well, we can move more channels to it soon.

As Matthew said:
> There may be some confusion here about the dynamics of Matrix bridging. In
> practice, when bridging to IRC, Matrix just acts as a big decentralised IRC
> bouncer. It connects on a per-network, not a per-channel basis, and the
> Matrix users who pop up on IRC look and feel like a normal IRC client
> connection... because they are. It just happens to be that the client is
> running on a Matrix/IRC bridge and syncing that user's history into Matrix
> for them.

So we don't have to/can't choose channels that are bridged. Not in a
whitelist fashion. We can however mark specific channels as private
(for those with sensitive discussions).

Matthew, anything blocking the bridging on our side?

-- 
Alexandre Franke
GNOME Hacker & Foundation Director
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Re: Thoughs about communication

[Carlos Soriano via desktop-devel-list]

A clarification:
By "moving more channels to it" I mean "implement the bridge in more channels" 
if we see it is successful and we like the outcome. I didn't mean to retire IRC 
channels at all.



Best regards,
Carlos Soriano

 Original Message 
Subject: Re: Thoughs about communication
Local Time: February 3, 2017 1:43 PM
UTC Time: February 3, 2017 12:43 PM
From: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org
To: Sriram Ramkrishna 
Desktop Development List 

Heya,

Should we go ahead then? Sri, let's go with #gnome and #engagement for now? If 
the bridge works out well, we can move more channels to it soon.

I believe only thing needed is Matthew to set it up in matrix.org and gimpe.net 
opers set it up the bridge right?



Best regards,
Carlos Soriano


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: Thoughs about communication
Local Time: January 27, 2017 7:03 PM
UTC Time: January 27, 2017 6:03 PM
From: s...@ramkrishna.me
To: Allan Day 
Desktop Development List 





On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 8:55 AM Allan Day  wrote:




On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 8:56 PM, Sriram Ramkrishna  wrote:
...






My two cents, and bear with me on my slight rant - I really hate the idea of 
depending on a web app like riot. It's like admitting that we've lost the whole 
application space and that we're going browser. I know that is not what is 
intended, but that will be the perception.

I'd like to do this, but I'd like to start putting resources into creating a 
viable chat client that works and is designed as a competition to a web app. 
Maybe that means some kind of contest or something. I'm not really worried 
about actually writing one after all matrix is an open standard, but the design 
one that shows the advantage of running something native should be a challenge 
that we need to meet head on.




...

While a native chat application would be nice, making it a requirement would be 
a real mistake in my opinion. A couple of reasons for that:

It isn't that I want to make it a requirement. It's more of a challenge given 
the prevalence of web based applications. I just want to make sure that we are 
aware that we are doing that in this particular instance.







First, chat is fragmented. There's no common standard, and whatever we choose 
is going to be one player among many. That puts it in a different category from 
many of our core applications.

A good point. I suppose in this case, nobody will be happy because potential 
contributors would be unhappy that we didn't pick the chat program they are 
using. I know a number of us are using telegram since last GUADEC on occasion.






Second, the GNOME developer community is already spread too thin. One of the 
most pressing questions we have right now is how we can focus our efforts on 
critical areas. In order to do that, we need to leverage other projects and 
initiatives when it benefits us. Because when we try to do everything in house, 
it hurts us, whether it's maintaining our own infrastructure, writing our own 
tools, or implementing every app ourselves. We end up being stuck behind the 
curve.

Yes, I am aware of that and I will always rush first to champion the leveraging 
of other groups and organizations. The social aspects of that is that we also 
become insular when we need to be forging relationships with the groups around 
us.







Obviously we're a community project and people will work on whatever itch they 
want to scratch. I wouldn't discourage someone from working on something if 
that's what they want to do. But that's different from making native apps a 
hard requirement in cases like this.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to make it a hard requirement, at the moment, 
I just want to get it working and we'll figure out the client part at a later 
date. Today, most people are used to using chat applications either from phone 
or from their desktop using a web browser so I see no pressing need to put 
resources into a client unless it's just a fun project.







We need to learn to tread lightly, embrace new things, and recognise that we 
can't do everything ourselves. If we do that, I think we could find ourselves 
in a pretty exciting place.

I agree completely.

sri






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Re: Thoughs about communication

[Carlos Soriano via desktop-devel-list]

Heya,

Should we go ahead then? Sri, let's go with #gnome and #engagement for now? If 
the bridge works out well, we can move more channels to it soon.

I believe only thing needed is Matthew to set it up in matrix.org and gimpe.net 
opers set it up the bridge right?



Best regards,
Carlos Soriano


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: Thoughs about communication
Local Time: January 27, 2017 7:03 PM
UTC Time: January 27, 2017 6:03 PM
From: s...@ramkrishna.me
To: Allan Day 
Desktop Development List 





On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 8:55 AM Allan Day  wrote:




On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 8:56 PM, Sriram Ramkrishna  wrote:
...






My two cents, and bear with me on my slight rant - I really hate the idea of 
depending on a web app like riot. It's like admitting that we've lost the whole 
application space and that we're going browser. I know that is not what is 
intended, but that will be the perception.

I'd like to do this, but I'd like to start putting resources into creating a 
viable chat client that works and is designed as a competition to a web app. 
Maybe that means some kind of contest or something. I'm not really worried 
about actually writing one after all matrix is an open standard, but the design 
one that shows the advantage of running something native should be a challenge 
that we need to meet head on.




...

While a native chat application would be nice, making it a requirement would be 
a real mistake in my opinion. A couple of reasons for that:

It isn't that I want to make it a requirement. It's more of a challenge given 
the prevalence of web based applications. I just want to make sure that we are 
aware that we are doing that in this particular instance.







First, chat is fragmented. There's no common standard, and whatever we choose 
is going to be one player among many. That puts it in a different category from 
many of our core applications.

A good point. I suppose in this case, nobody will be happy because potential 
contributors would be unhappy that we didn't pick the chat program they are 
using. I know a number of us are using telegram since last GUADEC on occasion.






Second, the GNOME developer community is already spread too thin. One of the 
most pressing questions we have right now is how we can focus our efforts on 
critical areas. In order to do that, we need to leverage other projects and 
initiatives when it benefits us. Because when we try to do everything in house, 
it hurts us, whether it's maintaining our own infrastructure, writing our own 
tools, or implementing every app ourselves. We end up being stuck behind the 
curve.

Yes, I am aware of that and I will always rush first to champion the leveraging 
of other groups and organizations. The social aspects of that is that we also 
become insular when we need to be forging relationships with the groups around 
us.







Obviously we're a community project and people will work on whatever itch they 
want to scratch. I wouldn't discourage someone from working on something if 
that's what they want to do. But that's different from making native apps a 
hard requirement in cases like this.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to make it a hard requirement, at the moment, 
I just want to get it working and we'll figure out the client part at a later 
date. Today, most people are used to using chat applications either from phone 
or from their desktop using a web browser so I see no pressing need to put 
resources into a client unless it's just a fun project.







We need to learn to tread lightly, embrace new things, and recognise that we 
can't do everything ourselves. If we do that, I think we could find ourselves 
in a pretty exciting place.

I agree completely.

sri






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