Re: [FlightSQL] Structured/Serialized representation of query (like JSON) rather than SQL string possible?
I've updated the PR [1] and I believe everything is resolved. (I've fixed ARROW-17254, and changed the Protobuf definition to work around Protobuf's issues.) If there's no further comments, I'll start a vote in the coming days. [1]: https://github.com/apache/arrow/pull/13492 Thanks, David On Fri, Aug 5, 2022, at 14:54, David Li wrote: > I've added implementations for Java and C++ to the draft [1], including > integration tests, after addressing comments on the proposal itself > (thanks all for the comments). > > One thing is, I might suggest punting on CancelQuery for now, or > changing how it's implemented, since embedding a message from > Flight.proto into FlightSql.proto interacts badly with Windows/DLLs > (protoc has poor support for embedding dllimport/dllexport macros). > > Otherwise I think things are ready, though we'll want to fix > ARROW-17254 [2] alongside it. > > [1]: https://github.com/apache/arrow/pull/13492 > [2]: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/ARROW-17254 > > On Fri, Jul 1, 2022, at 14:34, David Li wrote: >> I quickly drafted these out (sans implementation so far): >> https://github.com/apache/arrow/pull/13492 >> >> On Thu, Jun 30, 2022, at 21:20, David Li wrote: >>> Ah - somehow I didn't think of that. Yes, we should just implement it >>> in the same way prepared statements are already implemented. >>> >>> On Thu, Jun 30, 2022, at 19:42, Micah Kornfield wrote: > > It would also then be good to make explicit the statefulness of > connections in Flight SQL. While that is sort of an obvious constraint, it > is at odds with how gRPC is usually used (especially in the presence of > load balancing). I'm not sure I understand where the statefulness requirements come in? Could you elaborate? It seems that a transaction could be an opaque ID on operations? On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 2:47 PM James Duong wrote: > This is a bit of a tangent from the original discussion about > Substrait integration. > > Flight SQL would definitely benefit from transaction RPC commands for > building bridge drivers. I'm also wondering if there should be an RPC call > to cancel a running query, as opposed to just having the client terminate > streams. This would allow a multi-process application to cancel work > across > processes. > > On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 1:35 PM David Li wrote: > > > Reviving this discussion: would people be interested in seeing a > > sketched-out CommandSubstraitQuery et. al.? > > > > Additionally, while working on ADBC, I realized: does Flight SQL need > > explicit Commit/Rollback commands? This would presumably be necessary if > we > > want to build ODBC/JDBC drivers on top, since those standards have > explicit > > commands, and Flight SQL doesn't have the luxury of a driver to issue > > database-specific SQL to implement these. > > > > It would also then be good to make explicit the statefulness of > > connections in Flight SQL. While that is sort of an obvious constraint, > it > > is at odds with how gRPC is usually used (especially in the presence of > > load balancing). > > > > On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, at 14:44, Gavin Ray wrote: > > > Got it, thank you David! > > > I started prototyping the implementation last night, hopefully I will > > make > > > some good progress and have something basic functioning soon. > > > > > > RE: The metadata thing -- I think both Calcite and Teiid have solid > > > interfaces for defining what capabilities a datasource has. > > > > > > https://github.com/teiid/teiid/blob/8e9057a46be009d68b2d67701781f1f8c175baa7/api/src/main/java/org/teiid/translator/ExecutionFactory.java#L349-L1528 > > > > > > It's probably not possible to make something universal, but it seems > like > > > you could get pretty close to most common functionality/capabilities > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 11:48 PM Kyle Porter > .invalid> > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Yes, we should, where possible, avoid any one of metadata. This is > where > > >> other standards fail in that applications must be custom built for > each > > >> data source, if we standardize the metadata then applications can at > > least > > >> be built to adapt. > > >> > > >> On Sat., Mar. 5, 2022, 6:54 p.m. David Li, > wrote: > > >> > > >> > Yes, GetSqlInfo reserves a range of metadata IDs for Flight SQL's > > use, so > > >> > the application can use others for its own purposes. That said if > they > > >> seem > > >> > commonly applicable maybe we should try to standardize them. > > >> > > > >> > I think what you are doing should be reasonable. You may not need > > _all_ > > >> of > > >> > the capabilities in Flight SQL for this (e.g. all the variou
Re: [FlightSQL] Structured/Serialized representation of query (like JSON) rather than SQL string possible?
I've added implementations for Java and C++ to the draft [1], including integration tests, after addressing comments on the proposal itself (thanks all for the comments). One thing is, I might suggest punting on CancelQuery for now, or changing how it's implemented, since embedding a message from Flight.proto into FlightSql.proto interacts badly with Windows/DLLs (protoc has poor support for embedding dllimport/dllexport macros). Otherwise I think things are ready, though we'll want to fix ARROW-17254 [2] alongside it. [1]: https://github.com/apache/arrow/pull/13492 [2]: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/ARROW-17254 On Fri, Jul 1, 2022, at 14:34, David Li wrote: > I quickly drafted these out (sans implementation so far): > https://github.com/apache/arrow/pull/13492 > > On Thu, Jun 30, 2022, at 21:20, David Li wrote: >> Ah - somehow I didn't think of that. Yes, we should just implement it >> in the same way prepared statements are already implemented. >> >> On Thu, Jun 30, 2022, at 19:42, Micah Kornfield wrote: It would also then be good to make explicit the statefulness of connections in Flight SQL. While that is sort of an obvious constraint, it is at odds with how gRPC is usually used (especially in the presence of load balancing). >>> >>> >>> I'm not sure I understand where the statefulness requirements come in? >>> Could you elaborate? It seems that a transaction could be an opaque ID on >>> operations? >>> >>> On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 2:47 PM James Duong >>> >>> wrote: >>> This is a bit of a tangent from the original discussion about Substrait integration. Flight SQL would definitely benefit from transaction RPC commands for building bridge drivers. I'm also wondering if there should be an RPC call to cancel a running query, as opposed to just having the client terminate streams. This would allow a multi-process application to cancel work across processes. On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 1:35 PM David Li wrote: > Reviving this discussion: would people be interested in seeing a > sketched-out CommandSubstraitQuery et. al.? > > Additionally, while working on ADBC, I realized: does Flight SQL need > explicit Commit/Rollback commands? This would presumably be necessary if we > want to build ODBC/JDBC drivers on top, since those standards have explicit > commands, and Flight SQL doesn't have the luxury of a driver to issue > database-specific SQL to implement these. > > It would also then be good to make explicit the statefulness of > connections in Flight SQL. While that is sort of an obvious constraint, it > is at odds with how gRPC is usually used (especially in the presence of > load balancing). > > On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, at 14:44, Gavin Ray wrote: > > Got it, thank you David! > > I started prototyping the implementation last night, hopefully I will > make > > some good progress and have something basic functioning soon. > > > > RE: The metadata thing -- I think both Calcite and Teiid have solid > > interfaces for defining what capabilities a datasource has. > > > https://github.com/teiid/teiid/blob/8e9057a46be009d68b2d67701781f1f8c175baa7/api/src/main/java/org/teiid/translator/ExecutionFactory.java#L349-L1528 > > > > It's probably not possible to make something universal, but it seems like > > you could get pretty close to most common functionality/capabilities > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 11:48 PM Kyle Porter >>> > .invalid> > > wrote: > > > >> Yes, we should, where possible, avoid any one of metadata. This is where > >> other standards fail in that applications must be custom built for each > >> data source, if we standardize the metadata then applications can at > least > >> be built to adapt. > >> > >> On Sat., Mar. 5, 2022, 6:54 p.m. David Li, wrote: > >> > >> > Yes, GetSqlInfo reserves a range of metadata IDs for Flight SQL's > use, so > >> > the application can use others for its own purposes. That said if they > >> seem > >> > commonly applicable maybe we should try to standardize them. > >> > > >> > I think what you are doing should be reasonable. You may not need > _all_ > >> of > >> > the capabilities in Flight SQL for this (e.g. all the various metadata > >> > calls, or prepared statements, perhaps) but I don't see why it > wouldn't > >> > work for you. > >> > > >> > On Fri, Mar 4, 2022, at 19:03, Gavin Ray wrote: > >> > > To touch on the question about supported features -- is it possible > to > >> > > advertise arbitrary/custom "capabilites" in GetSqlInfo? > >> > > Say that you want to represent some set of behaviors that FlightSQL > >> >
Re: [FlightSQL] Structured/Serialized representation of query (like JSON) rather than SQL string possible?
I quickly drafted these out (sans implementation so far): https://github.com/apache/arrow/pull/13492 On Thu, Jun 30, 2022, at 21:20, David Li wrote: > Ah - somehow I didn't think of that. Yes, we should just implement it > in the same way prepared statements are already implemented. > > On Thu, Jun 30, 2022, at 19:42, Micah Kornfield wrote: >>> >>> It would also then be good to make explicit the statefulness of >>> connections in Flight SQL. While that is sort of an obvious constraint, it >>> is at odds with how gRPC is usually used (especially in the presence of >>> load balancing). >> >> >> I'm not sure I understand where the statefulness requirements come in? >> Could you elaborate? It seems that a transaction could be an opaque ID on >> operations? >> >> On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 2:47 PM James Duong >> wrote: >> >>> This is a bit of a tangent from the original discussion about >>> Substrait integration. >>> >>> Flight SQL would definitely benefit from transaction RPC commands for >>> building bridge drivers. I'm also wondering if there should be an RPC call >>> to cancel a running query, as opposed to just having the client terminate >>> streams. This would allow a multi-process application to cancel work across >>> processes. >>> >>> On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 1:35 PM David Li wrote: >>> >>> > Reviving this discussion: would people be interested in seeing a >>> > sketched-out CommandSubstraitQuery et. al.? >>> > >>> > Additionally, while working on ADBC, I realized: does Flight SQL need >>> > explicit Commit/Rollback commands? This would presumably be necessary if >>> we >>> > want to build ODBC/JDBC drivers on top, since those standards have >>> explicit >>> > commands, and Flight SQL doesn't have the luxury of a driver to issue >>> > database-specific SQL to implement these. >>> > >>> > It would also then be good to make explicit the statefulness of >>> > connections in Flight SQL. While that is sort of an obvious constraint, >>> it >>> > is at odds with how gRPC is usually used (especially in the presence of >>> > load balancing). >>> > >>> > On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, at 14:44, Gavin Ray wrote: >>> > > Got it, thank you David! >>> > > I started prototyping the implementation last night, hopefully I will >>> > make >>> > > some good progress and have something basic functioning soon. >>> > > >>> > > RE: The metadata thing -- I think both Calcite and Teiid have solid >>> > > interfaces for defining what capabilities a datasource has. >>> > > >>> > >>> https://github.com/teiid/teiid/blob/8e9057a46be009d68b2d67701781f1f8c175baa7/api/src/main/java/org/teiid/translator/ExecutionFactory.java#L349-L1528 >>> > > >>> > > It's probably not possible to make something universal, but it seems >>> like >>> > > you could get pretty close to most common functionality/capabilities >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 11:48 PM Kyle Porter >> > .invalid> >>> > > wrote: >>> > > >>> > >> Yes, we should, where possible, avoid any one of metadata. This is >>> where >>> > >> other standards fail in that applications must be custom built for >>> each >>> > >> data source, if we standardize the metadata then applications can at >>> > least >>> > >> be built to adapt. >>> > >> >>> > >> On Sat., Mar. 5, 2022, 6:54 p.m. David Li, >>> wrote: >>> > >> >>> > >> > Yes, GetSqlInfo reserves a range of metadata IDs for Flight SQL's >>> > use, so >>> > >> > the application can use others for its own purposes. That said if >>> they >>> > >> seem >>> > >> > commonly applicable maybe we should try to standardize them. >>> > >> > >>> > >> > I think what you are doing should be reasonable. You may not need >>> > _all_ >>> > >> of >>> > >> > the capabilities in Flight SQL for this (e.g. all the various >>> metadata >>> > >> > calls, or prepared statements, perhaps) but I don't see why it >>> > wouldn't >>> > >> > work for you. >>> > >> > >>> > >> > On Fri, Mar 4, 2022, at 19:03, Gavin Ray wrote: >>> > >> > > To touch on the question about supported features -- is it >>> possible >>> > to >>> > >> > > advertise arbitrary/custom "capabilites" in GetSqlInfo? >>> > >> > > Say that you want to represent some set of behaviors that >>> FlightSQL >>> > >> > > services can support. >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > > Stuff like "Supports grouping by multiple distinct aggregates", >>> > >> "Supports >>> > >> > > self-joins on aliased tables" etc >>> > >> > > This is going to be unique to each implementation, but I couldn't >>> > >> > determine >>> > >> > > whether there was a way to express arbitrary capabilities >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > > Also, in case it's helpful I put together an ASCII diagram of what >>> > I'm >>> > >> > > trying to do with FlightSQL >>> > >> > > If anyone has a moment, would appreciate input on whether it's >>> > >> feasible/a >>> > >> > > good idea >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > > https://pastebin.com/raw/VF2r0F3f >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > > Thank you =) >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > > On Fri, Mar 4, 2022 at 2:37 PM David Li >>> > w
Re: [FlightSQL] Structured/Serialized representation of query (like JSON) rather than SQL string possible?
Ah - somehow I didn't think of that. Yes, we should just implement it in the same way prepared statements are already implemented. On Thu, Jun 30, 2022, at 19:42, Micah Kornfield wrote: >> >> It would also then be good to make explicit the statefulness of >> connections in Flight SQL. While that is sort of an obvious constraint, it >> is at odds with how gRPC is usually used (especially in the presence of >> load balancing). > > > I'm not sure I understand where the statefulness requirements come in? > Could you elaborate? It seems that a transaction could be an opaque ID on > operations? > > On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 2:47 PM James Duong > wrote: > >> This is a bit of a tangent from the original discussion about >> Substrait integration. >> >> Flight SQL would definitely benefit from transaction RPC commands for >> building bridge drivers. I'm also wondering if there should be an RPC call >> to cancel a running query, as opposed to just having the client terminate >> streams. This would allow a multi-process application to cancel work across >> processes. >> >> On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 1:35 PM David Li wrote: >> >> > Reviving this discussion: would people be interested in seeing a >> > sketched-out CommandSubstraitQuery et. al.? >> > >> > Additionally, while working on ADBC, I realized: does Flight SQL need >> > explicit Commit/Rollback commands? This would presumably be necessary if >> we >> > want to build ODBC/JDBC drivers on top, since those standards have >> explicit >> > commands, and Flight SQL doesn't have the luxury of a driver to issue >> > database-specific SQL to implement these. >> > >> > It would also then be good to make explicit the statefulness of >> > connections in Flight SQL. While that is sort of an obvious constraint, >> it >> > is at odds with how gRPC is usually used (especially in the presence of >> > load balancing). >> > >> > On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, at 14:44, Gavin Ray wrote: >> > > Got it, thank you David! >> > > I started prototyping the implementation last night, hopefully I will >> > make >> > > some good progress and have something basic functioning soon. >> > > >> > > RE: The metadata thing -- I think both Calcite and Teiid have solid >> > > interfaces for defining what capabilities a datasource has. >> > > >> > >> https://github.com/teiid/teiid/blob/8e9057a46be009d68b2d67701781f1f8c175baa7/api/src/main/java/org/teiid/translator/ExecutionFactory.java#L349-L1528 >> > > >> > > It's probably not possible to make something universal, but it seems >> like >> > > you could get pretty close to most common functionality/capabilities >> > > >> > > >> > > On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 11:48 PM Kyle Porter > > .invalid> >> > > wrote: >> > > >> > >> Yes, we should, where possible, avoid any one of metadata. This is >> where >> > >> other standards fail in that applications must be custom built for >> each >> > >> data source, if we standardize the metadata then applications can at >> > least >> > >> be built to adapt. >> > >> >> > >> On Sat., Mar. 5, 2022, 6:54 p.m. David Li, >> wrote: >> > >> >> > >> > Yes, GetSqlInfo reserves a range of metadata IDs for Flight SQL's >> > use, so >> > >> > the application can use others for its own purposes. That said if >> they >> > >> seem >> > >> > commonly applicable maybe we should try to standardize them. >> > >> > >> > >> > I think what you are doing should be reasonable. You may not need >> > _all_ >> > >> of >> > >> > the capabilities in Flight SQL for this (e.g. all the various >> metadata >> > >> > calls, or prepared statements, perhaps) but I don't see why it >> > wouldn't >> > >> > work for you. >> > >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Mar 4, 2022, at 19:03, Gavin Ray wrote: >> > >> > > To touch on the question about supported features -- is it >> possible >> > to >> > >> > > advertise arbitrary/custom "capabilites" in GetSqlInfo? >> > >> > > Say that you want to represent some set of behaviors that >> FlightSQL >> > >> > > services can support. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > Stuff like "Supports grouping by multiple distinct aggregates", >> > >> "Supports >> > >> > > self-joins on aliased tables" etc >> > >> > > This is going to be unique to each implementation, but I couldn't >> > >> > determine >> > >> > > whether there was a way to express arbitrary capabilities >> > >> > > >> > >> > > Also, in case it's helpful I put together an ASCII diagram of what >> > I'm >> > >> > > trying to do with FlightSQL >> > >> > > If anyone has a moment, would appreciate input on whether it's >> > >> feasible/a >> > >> > > good idea >> > >> > > >> > >> > > https://pastebin.com/raw/VF2r0F3f >> > >> > > >> > >> > > Thank you =) >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > On Fri, Mar 4, 2022 at 2:37 PM David Li >> > wrote: >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> We could also add say CommandSubstraitQuery as a distinct >> message, >> > and >> > >> > >> older servers would just reject it as an unknown request type. >> > >> > >> >> > >> > >> -David >> > >> > >> >> > >> > >> On Fri, Mar 4, 2022, at 17:01, Mi
Re: [FlightSQL] Structured/Serialized representation of query (like JSON) rather than SQL string possible?
> > It would also then be good to make explicit the statefulness of > connections in Flight SQL. While that is sort of an obvious constraint, it > is at odds with how gRPC is usually used (especially in the presence of > load balancing). I'm not sure I understand where the statefulness requirements come in? Could you elaborate? It seems that a transaction could be an opaque ID on operations? On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 2:47 PM James Duong wrote: > This is a bit of a tangent from the original discussion about > Substrait integration. > > Flight SQL would definitely benefit from transaction RPC commands for > building bridge drivers. I'm also wondering if there should be an RPC call > to cancel a running query, as opposed to just having the client terminate > streams. This would allow a multi-process application to cancel work across > processes. > > On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 1:35 PM David Li wrote: > > > Reviving this discussion: would people be interested in seeing a > > sketched-out CommandSubstraitQuery et. al.? > > > > Additionally, while working on ADBC, I realized: does Flight SQL need > > explicit Commit/Rollback commands? This would presumably be necessary if > we > > want to build ODBC/JDBC drivers on top, since those standards have > explicit > > commands, and Flight SQL doesn't have the luxury of a driver to issue > > database-specific SQL to implement these. > > > > It would also then be good to make explicit the statefulness of > > connections in Flight SQL. While that is sort of an obvious constraint, > it > > is at odds with how gRPC is usually used (especially in the presence of > > load balancing). > > > > On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, at 14:44, Gavin Ray wrote: > > > Got it, thank you David! > > > I started prototyping the implementation last night, hopefully I will > > make > > > some good progress and have something basic functioning soon. > > > > > > RE: The metadata thing -- I think both Calcite and Teiid have solid > > > interfaces for defining what capabilities a datasource has. > > > > > > https://github.com/teiid/teiid/blob/8e9057a46be009d68b2d67701781f1f8c175baa7/api/src/main/java/org/teiid/translator/ExecutionFactory.java#L349-L1528 > > > > > > It's probably not possible to make something universal, but it seems > like > > > you could get pretty close to most common functionality/capabilities > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 11:48 PM Kyle Porter > .invalid> > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Yes, we should, where possible, avoid any one of metadata. This is > where > > >> other standards fail in that applications must be custom built for > each > > >> data source, if we standardize the metadata then applications can at > > least > > >> be built to adapt. > > >> > > >> On Sat., Mar. 5, 2022, 6:54 p.m. David Li, > wrote: > > >> > > >> > Yes, GetSqlInfo reserves a range of metadata IDs for Flight SQL's > > use, so > > >> > the application can use others for its own purposes. That said if > they > > >> seem > > >> > commonly applicable maybe we should try to standardize them. > > >> > > > >> > I think what you are doing should be reasonable. You may not need > > _all_ > > >> of > > >> > the capabilities in Flight SQL for this (e.g. all the various > metadata > > >> > calls, or prepared statements, perhaps) but I don't see why it > > wouldn't > > >> > work for you. > > >> > > > >> > On Fri, Mar 4, 2022, at 19:03, Gavin Ray wrote: > > >> > > To touch on the question about supported features -- is it > possible > > to > > >> > > advertise arbitrary/custom "capabilites" in GetSqlInfo? > > >> > > Say that you want to represent some set of behaviors that > FlightSQL > > >> > > services can support. > > >> > > > > >> > > Stuff like "Supports grouping by multiple distinct aggregates", > > >> "Supports > > >> > > self-joins on aliased tables" etc > > >> > > This is going to be unique to each implementation, but I couldn't > > >> > determine > > >> > > whether there was a way to express arbitrary capabilities > > >> > > > > >> > > Also, in case it's helpful I put together an ASCII diagram of what > > I'm > > >> > > trying to do with FlightSQL > > >> > > If anyone has a moment, would appreciate input on whether it's > > >> feasible/a > > >> > > good idea > > >> > > > > >> > > https://pastebin.com/raw/VF2r0F3f > > >> > > > > >> > > Thank you =) > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > On Fri, Mar 4, 2022 at 2:37 PM David Li > > wrote: > > >> > > > > >> > >> We could also add say CommandSubstraitQuery as a distinct > message, > > and > > >> > >> older servers would just reject it as an unknown request type. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> -David > > >> > >> > > >> > >> On Fri, Mar 4, 2022, at 17:01, Micah Kornfield wrote: > > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> 1. How does a server report that it supports each command > type? > > >> > Initial > > >> > >> >> thought is a property in GetSqlInfo. > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > This sounds reasonable. > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> >> What happens to client code
Re: [FlightSQL] Structured/Serialized representation of query (like JSON) rather than SQL string possible?
This is a bit of a tangent from the original discussion about Substrait integration. Flight SQL would definitely benefit from transaction RPC commands for building bridge drivers. I'm also wondering if there should be an RPC call to cancel a running query, as opposed to just having the client terminate streams. This would allow a multi-process application to cancel work across processes. On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 1:35 PM David Li wrote: > Reviving this discussion: would people be interested in seeing a > sketched-out CommandSubstraitQuery et. al.? > > Additionally, while working on ADBC, I realized: does Flight SQL need > explicit Commit/Rollback commands? This would presumably be necessary if we > want to build ODBC/JDBC drivers on top, since those standards have explicit > commands, and Flight SQL doesn't have the luxury of a driver to issue > database-specific SQL to implement these. > > It would also then be good to make explicit the statefulness of > connections in Flight SQL. While that is sort of an obvious constraint, it > is at odds with how gRPC is usually used (especially in the presence of > load balancing). > > On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, at 14:44, Gavin Ray wrote: > > Got it, thank you David! > > I started prototyping the implementation last night, hopefully I will > make > > some good progress and have something basic functioning soon. > > > > RE: The metadata thing -- I think both Calcite and Teiid have solid > > interfaces for defining what capabilities a datasource has. > > > https://github.com/teiid/teiid/blob/8e9057a46be009d68b2d67701781f1f8c175baa7/api/src/main/java/org/teiid/translator/ExecutionFactory.java#L349-L1528 > > > > It's probably not possible to make something universal, but it seems like > > you could get pretty close to most common functionality/capabilities > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 11:48 PM Kyle Porter .invalid> > > wrote: > > > >> Yes, we should, where possible, avoid any one of metadata. This is where > >> other standards fail in that applications must be custom built for each > >> data source, if we standardize the metadata then applications can at > least > >> be built to adapt. > >> > >> On Sat., Mar. 5, 2022, 6:54 p.m. David Li, wrote: > >> > >> > Yes, GetSqlInfo reserves a range of metadata IDs for Flight SQL's > use, so > >> > the application can use others for its own purposes. That said if they > >> seem > >> > commonly applicable maybe we should try to standardize them. > >> > > >> > I think what you are doing should be reasonable. You may not need > _all_ > >> of > >> > the capabilities in Flight SQL for this (e.g. all the various metadata > >> > calls, or prepared statements, perhaps) but I don't see why it > wouldn't > >> > work for you. > >> > > >> > On Fri, Mar 4, 2022, at 19:03, Gavin Ray wrote: > >> > > To touch on the question about supported features -- is it possible > to > >> > > advertise arbitrary/custom "capabilites" in GetSqlInfo? > >> > > Say that you want to represent some set of behaviors that FlightSQL > >> > > services can support. > >> > > > >> > > Stuff like "Supports grouping by multiple distinct aggregates", > >> "Supports > >> > > self-joins on aliased tables" etc > >> > > This is going to be unique to each implementation, but I couldn't > >> > determine > >> > > whether there was a way to express arbitrary capabilities > >> > > > >> > > Also, in case it's helpful I put together an ASCII diagram of what > I'm > >> > > trying to do with FlightSQL > >> > > If anyone has a moment, would appreciate input on whether it's > >> feasible/a > >> > > good idea > >> > > > >> > > https://pastebin.com/raw/VF2r0F3f > >> > > > >> > > Thank you =) > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > On Fri, Mar 4, 2022 at 2:37 PM David Li > wrote: > >> > > > >> > >> We could also add say CommandSubstraitQuery as a distinct message, > and > >> > >> older servers would just reject it as an unknown request type. > >> > >> > >> > >> -David > >> > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Mar 4, 2022, at 17:01, Micah Kornfield wrote: > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> 1. How does a server report that it supports each command type? > >> > Initial > >> > >> >> thought is a property in GetSqlInfo. > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > This sounds reasonable. > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> >> What happens to client code written prior to changing the > command > >> > type > >> > >> >> to be a oneOf field? Same for servers. > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > It is transparent from older clients (I'm 99% sure the wire > protocol > >> > >> > doesn't change). Servers is a little harder. The one saving > grace > >> > is I > >> > >> > don't think an empty/not-present SQL string would be something > most > >> > >> servers > >> > >> > could handle, so they would probably error with something that > while > >> > >> > not-obvious would give a clue to the clients (but hopefully this > >> would > >> > >> be a > >> > >> > non-issue because the capabilities would be checked for clients > >> > wishing > >> > >> to > >>
Re: [FlightSQL] Structured/Serialized representation of query (like JSON) rather than SQL string possible?
Reviving this discussion: would people be interested in seeing a sketched-out CommandSubstraitQuery et. al.? Additionally, while working on ADBC, I realized: does Flight SQL need explicit Commit/Rollback commands? This would presumably be necessary if we want to build ODBC/JDBC drivers on top, since those standards have explicit commands, and Flight SQL doesn't have the luxury of a driver to issue database-specific SQL to implement these. It would also then be good to make explicit the statefulness of connections in Flight SQL. While that is sort of an obvious constraint, it is at odds with how gRPC is usually used (especially in the presence of load balancing). On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, at 14:44, Gavin Ray wrote: > Got it, thank you David! > I started prototyping the implementation last night, hopefully I will make > some good progress and have something basic functioning soon. > > RE: The metadata thing -- I think both Calcite and Teiid have solid > interfaces for defining what capabilities a datasource has. > https://github.com/teiid/teiid/blob/8e9057a46be009d68b2d67701781f1f8c175baa7/api/src/main/java/org/teiid/translator/ExecutionFactory.java#L349-L1528 > > It's probably not possible to make something universal, but it seems like > you could get pretty close to most common functionality/capabilities > > > On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 11:48 PM Kyle Porter > wrote: > >> Yes, we should, where possible, avoid any one of metadata. This is where >> other standards fail in that applications must be custom built for each >> data source, if we standardize the metadata then applications can at least >> be built to adapt. >> >> On Sat., Mar. 5, 2022, 6:54 p.m. David Li, wrote: >> >> > Yes, GetSqlInfo reserves a range of metadata IDs for Flight SQL's use, so >> > the application can use others for its own purposes. That said if they >> seem >> > commonly applicable maybe we should try to standardize them. >> > >> > I think what you are doing should be reasonable. You may not need _all_ >> of >> > the capabilities in Flight SQL for this (e.g. all the various metadata >> > calls, or prepared statements, perhaps) but I don't see why it wouldn't >> > work for you. >> > >> > On Fri, Mar 4, 2022, at 19:03, Gavin Ray wrote: >> > > To touch on the question about supported features -- is it possible to >> > > advertise arbitrary/custom "capabilites" in GetSqlInfo? >> > > Say that you want to represent some set of behaviors that FlightSQL >> > > services can support. >> > > >> > > Stuff like "Supports grouping by multiple distinct aggregates", >> "Supports >> > > self-joins on aliased tables" etc >> > > This is going to be unique to each implementation, but I couldn't >> > determine >> > > whether there was a way to express arbitrary capabilities >> > > >> > > Also, in case it's helpful I put together an ASCII diagram of what I'm >> > > trying to do with FlightSQL >> > > If anyone has a moment, would appreciate input on whether it's >> feasible/a >> > > good idea >> > > >> > > https://pastebin.com/raw/VF2r0F3f >> > > >> > > Thank you =) >> > > >> > > >> > > On Fri, Mar 4, 2022 at 2:37 PM David Li wrote: >> > > >> > >> We could also add say CommandSubstraitQuery as a distinct message, and >> > >> older servers would just reject it as an unknown request type. >> > >> >> > >> -David >> > >> >> > >> On Fri, Mar 4, 2022, at 17:01, Micah Kornfield wrote: >> > >> >> >> > >> >> 1. How does a server report that it supports each command type? >> > Initial >> > >> >> thought is a property in GetSqlInfo. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > This sounds reasonable. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> What happens to client code written prior to changing the command >> > type >> > >> >> to be a oneOf field? Same for servers. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > It is transparent from older clients (I'm 99% sure the wire protocol >> > >> > doesn't change). Servers is a little harder. The one saving grace >> > is I >> > >> > don't think an empty/not-present SQL string would be something most >> > >> servers >> > >> > could handle, so they would probably error with something that while >> > >> > not-obvious would give a clue to the clients (but hopefully this >> would >> > >> be a >> > >> > non-issue because the capabilities would be checked for clients >> > wishing >> > >> to >> > >> > to use this feature first). >> > >> > >> > >> > -Micah >> > >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Mar 4, 2022 at 1:50 PM James Duong > > >> .invalid> >> > >> > wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> >> It sounds like an interesting and useful project to use Subtstrait >> > as an >> > >> >> alternative to SQL strings. >> > >> >> >> > >> >> Important aspects to spec out are: >> > >> >> 1. How does a server report that it supports each command type? >> > Initial >> > >> >> thought is a property in GetSqlInfo. >> > >> >> 2. What happens to client code written prior to changing the >> command >> > >> type >> > >> >> to be a oneOf field? Same for servers. >> > >> >> More generally, how should backward comp
Re: [FlightSQL] Structured/Serialized representation of query (like JSON) rather than SQL string possible?
Got it, thank you David! I started prototyping the implementation last night, hopefully I will make some good progress and have something basic functioning soon. RE: The metadata thing -- I think both Calcite and Teiid have solid interfaces for defining what capabilities a datasource has. https://github.com/teiid/teiid/blob/8e9057a46be009d68b2d67701781f1f8c175baa7/api/src/main/java/org/teiid/translator/ExecutionFactory.java#L349-L1528 It's probably not possible to make something universal, but it seems like you could get pretty close to most common functionality/capabilities On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 11:48 PM Kyle Porter wrote: > Yes, we should, where possible, avoid any one of metadata. This is where > other standards fail in that applications must be custom built for each > data source, if we standardize the metadata then applications can at least > be built to adapt. > > On Sat., Mar. 5, 2022, 6:54 p.m. David Li, wrote: > > > Yes, GetSqlInfo reserves a range of metadata IDs for Flight SQL's use, so > > the application can use others for its own purposes. That said if they > seem > > commonly applicable maybe we should try to standardize them. > > > > I think what you are doing should be reasonable. You may not need _all_ > of > > the capabilities in Flight SQL for this (e.g. all the various metadata > > calls, or prepared statements, perhaps) but I don't see why it wouldn't > > work for you. > > > > On Fri, Mar 4, 2022, at 19:03, Gavin Ray wrote: > > > To touch on the question about supported features -- is it possible to > > > advertise arbitrary/custom "capabilites" in GetSqlInfo? > > > Say that you want to represent some set of behaviors that FlightSQL > > > services can support. > > > > > > Stuff like "Supports grouping by multiple distinct aggregates", > "Supports > > > self-joins on aliased tables" etc > > > This is going to be unique to each implementation, but I couldn't > > determine > > > whether there was a way to express arbitrary capabilities > > > > > > Also, in case it's helpful I put together an ASCII diagram of what I'm > > > trying to do with FlightSQL > > > If anyone has a moment, would appreciate input on whether it's > feasible/a > > > good idea > > > > > > https://pastebin.com/raw/VF2r0F3f > > > > > > Thank you =) > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 4, 2022 at 2:37 PM David Li wrote: > > > > > >> We could also add say CommandSubstraitQuery as a distinct message, and > > >> older servers would just reject it as an unknown request type. > > >> > > >> -David > > >> > > >> On Fri, Mar 4, 2022, at 17:01, Micah Kornfield wrote: > > >> >> > > >> >> 1. How does a server report that it supports each command type? > > Initial > > >> >> thought is a property in GetSqlInfo. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > This sounds reasonable. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >> What happens to client code written prior to changing the command > > type > > >> >> to be a oneOf field? Same for servers. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > It is transparent from older clients (I'm 99% sure the wire protocol > > >> > doesn't change). Servers is a little harder. The one saving grace > > is I > > >> > don't think an empty/not-present SQL string would be something most > > >> servers > > >> > could handle, so they would probably error with something that while > > >> > not-obvious would give a clue to the clients (but hopefully this > would > > >> be a > > >> > non-issue because the capabilities would be checked for clients > > wishing > > >> to > > >> > to use this feature first). > > >> > > > >> > -Micah > > >> > > > >> > On Fri, Mar 4, 2022 at 1:50 PM James Duong > >> .invalid> > > >> > wrote: > > >> > > > >> >> It sounds like an interesting and useful project to use Subtstrait > > as an > > >> >> alternative to SQL strings. > > >> >> > > >> >> Important aspects to spec out are: > > >> >> 1. How does a server report that it supports each command type? > > Initial > > >> >> thought is a property in GetSqlInfo. > > >> >> 2. What happens to client code written prior to changing the > command > > >> type > > >> >> to be a oneOf field? Same for servers. > > >> >> More generally, how should backward compatibility work, and what > > should > > >> >> happen if a client sends an unsupported > > >> >> command type to a server. > > >> >> 3. Should inputs to catalog RPC calls also accept Substrait > > structures? > > >> >> > > >> >> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 11:00 PM Gavin Ray > > >> wrote: > > >> >> > > >> >> > @James Duong > > >> >> > > > >> >> > You are absolutely right, I realized this and confirmed whether > > this > > >> >> > would be possible with Jacques to double-check. > > >> >> > It would amount to what I might call "dollar-store Substrait." > It's > > >> not > > >> >> > elegant or a good solution, but definitely presents a good > > duct-tape > > >> hack > > >> >> > and is a crafty idea. > > >> >> > > > >> >> > I agree with Jacques -- when you think about FlightSQL, what you > > are > > >> >> > attempting with a query isn't necessaril
Re: [FlightSQL] Structured/Serialized representation of query (like JSON) rather than SQL string possible?
Yes, we should, where possible, avoid any one of metadata. This is where other standards fail in that applications must be custom built for each data source, if we standardize the metadata then applications can at least be built to adapt. On Sat., Mar. 5, 2022, 6:54 p.m. David Li, wrote: > Yes, GetSqlInfo reserves a range of metadata IDs for Flight SQL's use, so > the application can use others for its own purposes. That said if they seem > commonly applicable maybe we should try to standardize them. > > I think what you are doing should be reasonable. You may not need _all_ of > the capabilities in Flight SQL for this (e.g. all the various metadata > calls, or prepared statements, perhaps) but I don't see why it wouldn't > work for you. > > On Fri, Mar 4, 2022, at 19:03, Gavin Ray wrote: > > To touch on the question about supported features -- is it possible to > > advertise arbitrary/custom "capabilites" in GetSqlInfo? > > Say that you want to represent some set of behaviors that FlightSQL > > services can support. > > > > Stuff like "Supports grouping by multiple distinct aggregates", "Supports > > self-joins on aliased tables" etc > > This is going to be unique to each implementation, but I couldn't > determine > > whether there was a way to express arbitrary capabilities > > > > Also, in case it's helpful I put together an ASCII diagram of what I'm > > trying to do with FlightSQL > > If anyone has a moment, would appreciate input on whether it's feasible/a > > good idea > > > > https://pastebin.com/raw/VF2r0F3f > > > > Thank you =) > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 4, 2022 at 2:37 PM David Li wrote: > > > >> We could also add say CommandSubstraitQuery as a distinct message, and > >> older servers would just reject it as an unknown request type. > >> > >> -David > >> > >> On Fri, Mar 4, 2022, at 17:01, Micah Kornfield wrote: > >> >> > >> >> 1. How does a server report that it supports each command type? > Initial > >> >> thought is a property in GetSqlInfo. > >> > > >> > > >> > This sounds reasonable. > >> > > >> > > >> >> What happens to client code written prior to changing the command > type > >> >> to be a oneOf field? Same for servers. > >> > > >> > > >> > It is transparent from older clients (I'm 99% sure the wire protocol > >> > doesn't change). Servers is a little harder. The one saving grace > is I > >> > don't think an empty/not-present SQL string would be something most > >> servers > >> > could handle, so they would probably error with something that while > >> > not-obvious would give a clue to the clients (but hopefully this would > >> be a > >> > non-issue because the capabilities would be checked for clients > wishing > >> to > >> > to use this feature first). > >> > > >> > -Micah > >> > > >> > On Fri, Mar 4, 2022 at 1:50 PM James Duong >> .invalid> > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> >> It sounds like an interesting and useful project to use Subtstrait > as an > >> >> alternative to SQL strings. > >> >> > >> >> Important aspects to spec out are: > >> >> 1. How does a server report that it supports each command type? > Initial > >> >> thought is a property in GetSqlInfo. > >> >> 2. What happens to client code written prior to changing the command > >> type > >> >> to be a oneOf field? Same for servers. > >> >> More generally, how should backward compatibility work, and what > should > >> >> happen if a client sends an unsupported > >> >> command type to a server. > >> >> 3. Should inputs to catalog RPC calls also accept Substrait > structures? > >> >> > >> >> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 11:00 PM Gavin Ray > >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > @James Duong > >> >> > > >> >> > You are absolutely right, I realized this and confirmed whether > this > >> >> > would be possible with Jacques to double-check. > >> >> > It would amount to what I might call "dollar-store Substrait." It's > >> not > >> >> > elegant or a good solution, but definitely presents a good > duct-tape > >> hack > >> >> > and is a crafty idea. > >> >> > > >> >> > I agree with Jacques -- when you think about FlightSQL, what you > are > >> >> > attempting with a query isn't necessarily SQL, but a general > >> data-compute > >> >> > operation. > >> >> > SQL just so happens to be a fairly universal way to express them, > >> with an > >> >> > ANSI standard, but FlightSQL doesn't recognize any particular > subset > >> of > >> >> it > >> >> > and for all intents and purposes it doesn't matter what the > operation > >> >> > string contains. > >> >> > > >> >> > Substrait would make a fantastic logical next-feature because it's > >> >> > targeted as a specification for expressing relational algebra and > >> >> > data-compute operations > >> >> > This more-or-less equates to SQL strings (in my mind at least) > with a > >> >> much > >> >> > better toolkit and Dev UX. If there is anything I can do to help > move > >> >> this > >> >> > forward, please let me know because I am extremely motivated to do > so. > >> >> > > >> >> > @David Li > >> >> > > >> >> > Al
Re: [FlightSQL] Structured/Serialized representation of query (like JSON) rather than SQL string possible?
Yes, GetSqlInfo reserves a range of metadata IDs for Flight SQL's use, so the application can use others for its own purposes. That said if they seem commonly applicable maybe we should try to standardize them. I think what you are doing should be reasonable. You may not need _all_ of the capabilities in Flight SQL for this (e.g. all the various metadata calls, or prepared statements, perhaps) but I don't see why it wouldn't work for you. On Fri, Mar 4, 2022, at 19:03, Gavin Ray wrote: > To touch on the question about supported features -- is it possible to > advertise arbitrary/custom "capabilites" in GetSqlInfo? > Say that you want to represent some set of behaviors that FlightSQL > services can support. > > Stuff like "Supports grouping by multiple distinct aggregates", "Supports > self-joins on aliased tables" etc > This is going to be unique to each implementation, but I couldn't determine > whether there was a way to express arbitrary capabilities > > Also, in case it's helpful I put together an ASCII diagram of what I'm > trying to do with FlightSQL > If anyone has a moment, would appreciate input on whether it's feasible/a > good idea > > https://pastebin.com/raw/VF2r0F3f > > Thank you =) > > > On Fri, Mar 4, 2022 at 2:37 PM David Li wrote: > >> We could also add say CommandSubstraitQuery as a distinct message, and >> older servers would just reject it as an unknown request type. >> >> -David >> >> On Fri, Mar 4, 2022, at 17:01, Micah Kornfield wrote: >> >> >> >> 1. How does a server report that it supports each command type? Initial >> >> thought is a property in GetSqlInfo. >> > >> > >> > This sounds reasonable. >> > >> > >> >> What happens to client code written prior to changing the command type >> >> to be a oneOf field? Same for servers. >> > >> > >> > It is transparent from older clients (I'm 99% sure the wire protocol >> > doesn't change). Servers is a little harder. The one saving grace is I >> > don't think an empty/not-present SQL string would be something most >> servers >> > could handle, so they would probably error with something that while >> > not-obvious would give a clue to the clients (but hopefully this would >> be a >> > non-issue because the capabilities would be checked for clients wishing >> to >> > to use this feature first). >> > >> > -Micah >> > >> > On Fri, Mar 4, 2022 at 1:50 PM James Duong > .invalid> >> > wrote: >> > >> >> It sounds like an interesting and useful project to use Subtstrait as an >> >> alternative to SQL strings. >> >> >> >> Important aspects to spec out are: >> >> 1. How does a server report that it supports each command type? Initial >> >> thought is a property in GetSqlInfo. >> >> 2. What happens to client code written prior to changing the command >> type >> >> to be a oneOf field? Same for servers. >> >> More generally, how should backward compatibility work, and what should >> >> happen if a client sends an unsupported >> >> command type to a server. >> >> 3. Should inputs to catalog RPC calls also accept Substrait structures? >> >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 11:00 PM Gavin Ray >> wrote: >> >> >> >> > @James Duong >> >> > >> >> > You are absolutely right, I realized this and confirmed whether this >> >> > would be possible with Jacques to double-check. >> >> > It would amount to what I might call "dollar-store Substrait." It's >> not >> >> > elegant or a good solution, but definitely presents a good duct-tape >> hack >> >> > and is a crafty idea. >> >> > >> >> > I agree with Jacques -- when you think about FlightSQL, what you are >> >> > attempting with a query isn't necessarily SQL, but a general >> data-compute >> >> > operation. >> >> > SQL just so happens to be a fairly universal way to express them, >> with an >> >> > ANSI standard, but FlightSQL doesn't recognize any particular subset >> of >> >> it >> >> > and for all intents and purposes it doesn't matter what the operation >> >> > string contains. >> >> > >> >> > Substrait would make a fantastic logical next-feature because it's >> >> > targeted as a specification for expressing relational algebra and >> >> > data-compute operations >> >> > This more-or-less equates to SQL strings (in my mind at least) with a >> >> much >> >> > better toolkit and Dev UX. If there is anything I can do to help move >> >> this >> >> > forward, please let me know because I am extremely motivated to do so. >> >> > >> >> > @David Li >> >> > >> >> > Also agreed. Substrait is put together by folks much smarter than >> myself, >> >> > and if I had to hedge my bets, I'd put money on it being the future of >> >> > data-compute interop. >> >> > I would love nothing more than to adopt this technology and push it >> >> along. >> >> > >> >> > Your project does sound interesting - basically, it sounds like a >> tabular >> >> >> data storage service with query pushdown? >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > Yeah this is more or less the details of it (my personal email, with >> >> > discretion assumed, is always open) >
Re: [FlightSQL] Structured/Serialized representation of query (like JSON) rather than SQL string possible?
To touch on the question about supported features -- is it possible to advertise arbitrary/custom "capabilites" in GetSqlInfo? Say that you want to represent some set of behaviors that FlightSQL services can support. Stuff like "Supports grouping by multiple distinct aggregates", "Supports self-joins on aliased tables" etc This is going to be unique to each implementation, but I couldn't determine whether there was a way to express arbitrary capabilities Also, in case it's helpful I put together an ASCII diagram of what I'm trying to do with FlightSQL If anyone has a moment, would appreciate input on whether it's feasible/a good idea https://pastebin.com/raw/VF2r0F3f Thank you =) On Fri, Mar 4, 2022 at 2:37 PM David Li wrote: > We could also add say CommandSubstraitQuery as a distinct message, and > older servers would just reject it as an unknown request type. > > -David > > On Fri, Mar 4, 2022, at 17:01, Micah Kornfield wrote: > >> > >> 1. How does a server report that it supports each command type? Initial > >> thought is a property in GetSqlInfo. > > > > > > This sounds reasonable. > > > > > >> What happens to client code written prior to changing the command type > >> to be a oneOf field? Same for servers. > > > > > > It is transparent from older clients (I'm 99% sure the wire protocol > > doesn't change). Servers is a little harder. The one saving grace is I > > don't think an empty/not-present SQL string would be something most > servers > > could handle, so they would probably error with something that while > > not-obvious would give a clue to the clients (but hopefully this would > be a > > non-issue because the capabilities would be checked for clients wishing > to > > to use this feature first). > > > > -Micah > > > > On Fri, Mar 4, 2022 at 1:50 PM James Duong .invalid> > > wrote: > > > >> It sounds like an interesting and useful project to use Subtstrait as an > >> alternative to SQL strings. > >> > >> Important aspects to spec out are: > >> 1. How does a server report that it supports each command type? Initial > >> thought is a property in GetSqlInfo. > >> 2. What happens to client code written prior to changing the command > type > >> to be a oneOf field? Same for servers. > >> More generally, how should backward compatibility work, and what should > >> happen if a client sends an unsupported > >> command type to a server. > >> 3. Should inputs to catalog RPC calls also accept Substrait structures? > >> > >> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 11:00 PM Gavin Ray > wrote: > >> > >> > @James Duong > >> > > >> > You are absolutely right, I realized this and confirmed whether this > >> > would be possible with Jacques to double-check. > >> > It would amount to what I might call "dollar-store Substrait." It's > not > >> > elegant or a good solution, but definitely presents a good duct-tape > hack > >> > and is a crafty idea. > >> > > >> > I agree with Jacques -- when you think about FlightSQL, what you are > >> > attempting with a query isn't necessarily SQL, but a general > data-compute > >> > operation. > >> > SQL just so happens to be a fairly universal way to express them, > with an > >> > ANSI standard, but FlightSQL doesn't recognize any particular subset > of > >> it > >> > and for all intents and purposes it doesn't matter what the operation > >> > string contains. > >> > > >> > Substrait would make a fantastic logical next-feature because it's > >> > targeted as a specification for expressing relational algebra and > >> > data-compute operations > >> > This more-or-less equates to SQL strings (in my mind at least) with a > >> much > >> > better toolkit and Dev UX. If there is anything I can do to help move > >> this > >> > forward, please let me know because I am extremely motivated to do so. > >> > > >> > @David Li > >> > > >> > Also agreed. Substrait is put together by folks much smarter than > myself, > >> > and if I had to hedge my bets, I'd put money on it being the future of > >> > data-compute interop. > >> > I would love nothing more than to adopt this technology and push it > >> along. > >> > > >> > Your project does sound interesting - basically, it sounds like a > tabular > >> >> data storage service with query pushdown? > >> >> > >> > > >> > Yeah this is more or less the details of it (my personal email, with > >> > discretion assumed, is always open) > >> > > >> > Imagine an environment where a backend wants to advertise some kind of > >> > schema/data catalog > >> > > >> > And then a central service introspects these backends, and dynamically > >> > generates an API from the data catalogues/schemas, where requests get > >> > proxied to the underlying backend service for each schema to actually > be > >> > executed > >> > > >> > In text, the flow would look something like: > >> > > >> > > >> ><> Data Provider Backend 0 > >> > Client <-> Central Service <---> Generated API <> > Data-Provider > >> > Backend 1 > >> > > >> ><> Data Provider Back
Re: [FlightSQL] Structured/Serialized representation of query (like JSON) rather than SQL string possible?
We could also add say CommandSubstraitQuery as a distinct message, and older servers would just reject it as an unknown request type. -David On Fri, Mar 4, 2022, at 17:01, Micah Kornfield wrote: >> >> 1. How does a server report that it supports each command type? Initial >> thought is a property in GetSqlInfo. > > > This sounds reasonable. > > >> What happens to client code written prior to changing the command type >> to be a oneOf field? Same for servers. > > > It is transparent from older clients (I'm 99% sure the wire protocol > doesn't change). Servers is a little harder. The one saving grace is I > don't think an empty/not-present SQL string would be something most servers > could handle, so they would probably error with something that while > not-obvious would give a clue to the clients (but hopefully this would be a > non-issue because the capabilities would be checked for clients wishing to > to use this feature first). > > -Micah > > On Fri, Mar 4, 2022 at 1:50 PM James Duong > wrote: > >> It sounds like an interesting and useful project to use Subtstrait as an >> alternative to SQL strings. >> >> Important aspects to spec out are: >> 1. How does a server report that it supports each command type? Initial >> thought is a property in GetSqlInfo. >> 2. What happens to client code written prior to changing the command type >> to be a oneOf field? Same for servers. >> More generally, how should backward compatibility work, and what should >> happen if a client sends an unsupported >> command type to a server. >> 3. Should inputs to catalog RPC calls also accept Substrait structures? >> >> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 11:00 PM Gavin Ray wrote: >> >> > @James Duong >> > >> > You are absolutely right, I realized this and confirmed whether this >> > would be possible with Jacques to double-check. >> > It would amount to what I might call "dollar-store Substrait." It's not >> > elegant or a good solution, but definitely presents a good duct-tape hack >> > and is a crafty idea. >> > >> > I agree with Jacques -- when you think about FlightSQL, what you are >> > attempting with a query isn't necessarily SQL, but a general data-compute >> > operation. >> > SQL just so happens to be a fairly universal way to express them, with an >> > ANSI standard, but FlightSQL doesn't recognize any particular subset of >> it >> > and for all intents and purposes it doesn't matter what the operation >> > string contains. >> > >> > Substrait would make a fantastic logical next-feature because it's >> > targeted as a specification for expressing relational algebra and >> > data-compute operations >> > This more-or-less equates to SQL strings (in my mind at least) with a >> much >> > better toolkit and Dev UX. If there is anything I can do to help move >> this >> > forward, please let me know because I am extremely motivated to do so. >> > >> > @David Li >> > >> > Also agreed. Substrait is put together by folks much smarter than myself, >> > and if I had to hedge my bets, I'd put money on it being the future of >> > data-compute interop. >> > I would love nothing more than to adopt this technology and push it >> along. >> > >> > Your project does sound interesting - basically, it sounds like a tabular >> >> data storage service with query pushdown? >> >> >> > >> > Yeah this is more or less the details of it (my personal email, with >> > discretion assumed, is always open) >> > >> > Imagine an environment where a backend wants to advertise some kind of >> > schema/data catalog >> > >> > And then a central service introspects these backends, and dynamically >> > generates an API from the data catalogues/schemas, where requests get >> > proxied to the underlying backend service for each schema to actually be >> > executed >> > >> > In text, the flow would look something like: >> > >> > >> ><> Data Provider Backend 0 >> > Client <-> Central Service <---> Generated API <> Data-Provider >> > Backend 1 >> > >> ><> Data Provider Backend 2 >> > >> > >> > >> > On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 5:52 PM David Li wrote: >> > >> >> Gavin, thanks for sharing. I'm not so sure you'll find an alternative to >> >> Substrait, at least one that isn't even more nascent or one that's very >> >> tied to a particular language, so perhaps it might be better to get >> >> involved in Substrait and see if it suits your needs? Convincing a team >> to >> >> try something new can be hard, though, and it is somewhat of a moving >> >> target - but Flight SQL is in a similar spot, I think, as it's still >> >> getting enhancements. >> >> >> >> Your project does sound interesting - basically, it sounds like a >> tabular >> >> data storage service with query pushdown? >> >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022, at 19:58, Jacques Nadeau wrote: >> >> > James, I agree that you could use JSON but that feels a bit hacky >> >> > (mis-use >> >> > of the paradigm). Instead, I'd really like to do something like David >> is >> >> > suggesting: support Substra
Re: [FlightSQL] Structured/Serialized representation of query (like JSON) rather than SQL string possible?
> > 1. How does a server report that it supports each command type? Initial > thought is a property in GetSqlInfo. This sounds reasonable. > What happens to client code written prior to changing the command type > to be a oneOf field? Same for servers. It is transparent from older clients (I'm 99% sure the wire protocol doesn't change). Servers is a little harder. The one saving grace is I don't think an empty/not-present SQL string would be something most servers could handle, so they would probably error with something that while not-obvious would give a clue to the clients (but hopefully this would be a non-issue because the capabilities would be checked for clients wishing to to use this feature first). -Micah On Fri, Mar 4, 2022 at 1:50 PM James Duong wrote: > It sounds like an interesting and useful project to use Subtstrait as an > alternative to SQL strings. > > Important aspects to spec out are: > 1. How does a server report that it supports each command type? Initial > thought is a property in GetSqlInfo. > 2. What happens to client code written prior to changing the command type > to be a oneOf field? Same for servers. > More generally, how should backward compatibility work, and what should > happen if a client sends an unsupported > command type to a server. > 3. Should inputs to catalog RPC calls also accept Substrait structures? > > On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 11:00 PM Gavin Ray wrote: > > > @James Duong > > > > You are absolutely right, I realized this and confirmed whether this > > would be possible with Jacques to double-check. > > It would amount to what I might call "dollar-store Substrait." It's not > > elegant or a good solution, but definitely presents a good duct-tape hack > > and is a crafty idea. > > > > I agree with Jacques -- when you think about FlightSQL, what you are > > attempting with a query isn't necessarily SQL, but a general data-compute > > operation. > > SQL just so happens to be a fairly universal way to express them, with an > > ANSI standard, but FlightSQL doesn't recognize any particular subset of > it > > and for all intents and purposes it doesn't matter what the operation > > string contains. > > > > Substrait would make a fantastic logical next-feature because it's > > targeted as a specification for expressing relational algebra and > > data-compute operations > > This more-or-less equates to SQL strings (in my mind at least) with a > much > > better toolkit and Dev UX. If there is anything I can do to help move > this > > forward, please let me know because I am extremely motivated to do so. > > > > @David Li > > > > Also agreed. Substrait is put together by folks much smarter than myself, > > and if I had to hedge my bets, I'd put money on it being the future of > > data-compute interop. > > I would love nothing more than to adopt this technology and push it > along. > > > > Your project does sound interesting - basically, it sounds like a tabular > >> data storage service with query pushdown? > >> > > > > Yeah this is more or less the details of it (my personal email, with > > discretion assumed, is always open) > > > > Imagine an environment where a backend wants to advertise some kind of > > schema/data catalog > > > > And then a central service introspects these backends, and dynamically > > generates an API from the data catalogues/schemas, where requests get > > proxied to the underlying backend service for each schema to actually be > > executed > > > > In text, the flow would look something like: > > > > > ><> Data Provider Backend 0 > > Client <-> Central Service <---> Generated API <> Data-Provider > > Backend 1 > > > ><> Data Provider Backend 2 > > > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 5:52 PM David Li wrote: > > > >> Gavin, thanks for sharing. I'm not so sure you'll find an alternative to > >> Substrait, at least one that isn't even more nascent or one that's very > >> tied to a particular language, so perhaps it might be better to get > >> involved in Substrait and see if it suits your needs? Convincing a team > to > >> try something new can be hard, though, and it is somewhat of a moving > >> target - but Flight SQL is in a similar spot, I think, as it's still > >> getting enhancements. > >> > >> Your project does sound interesting - basically, it sounds like a > tabular > >> data storage service with query pushdown? > >> > >> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022, at 19:58, Jacques Nadeau wrote: > >> > James, I agree that you could use JSON but that feels a bit hacky > >> > (mis-use > >> > of the paradigm). Instead, I'd really like to do something like David > is > >> > suggesting: support Substrait as an alternative to a SQL string. > >> > Something like this: > >> > > >> > https://github.com/jacques-n/arrow/commit/e22674fa882e77c2889cf95f69f6e3701db362bc > >> > > >> > It would be great if someone wanted to pick this up. It would be a > nice > >> > enhancement to FlightSQL (and provide a structured way to express > >> >
Re: [FlightSQL] Structured/Serialized representation of query (like JSON) rather than SQL string possible?
It sounds like an interesting and useful project to use Subtstrait as an alternative to SQL strings. Important aspects to spec out are: 1. How does a server report that it supports each command type? Initial thought is a property in GetSqlInfo. 2. What happens to client code written prior to changing the command type to be a oneOf field? Same for servers. More generally, how should backward compatibility work, and what should happen if a client sends an unsupported command type to a server. 3. Should inputs to catalog RPC calls also accept Substrait structures? On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 11:00 PM Gavin Ray wrote: > @James Duong > > You are absolutely right, I realized this and confirmed whether this > would be possible with Jacques to double-check. > It would amount to what I might call "dollar-store Substrait." It's not > elegant or a good solution, but definitely presents a good duct-tape hack > and is a crafty idea. > > I agree with Jacques -- when you think about FlightSQL, what you are > attempting with a query isn't necessarily SQL, but a general data-compute > operation. > SQL just so happens to be a fairly universal way to express them, with an > ANSI standard, but FlightSQL doesn't recognize any particular subset of it > and for all intents and purposes it doesn't matter what the operation > string contains. > > Substrait would make a fantastic logical next-feature because it's > targeted as a specification for expressing relational algebra and > data-compute operations > This more-or-less equates to SQL strings (in my mind at least) with a much > better toolkit and Dev UX. If there is anything I can do to help move this > forward, please let me know because I am extremely motivated to do so. > > @David Li > > Also agreed. Substrait is put together by folks much smarter than myself, > and if I had to hedge my bets, I'd put money on it being the future of > data-compute interop. > I would love nothing more than to adopt this technology and push it along. > > Your project does sound interesting - basically, it sounds like a tabular >> data storage service with query pushdown? >> > > Yeah this is more or less the details of it (my personal email, with > discretion assumed, is always open) > > Imagine an environment where a backend wants to advertise some kind of > schema/data catalog > > And then a central service introspects these backends, and dynamically > generates an API from the data catalogues/schemas, where requests get > proxied to the underlying backend service for each schema to actually be > executed > > In text, the flow would look something like: > > ><> Data Provider Backend 0 > Client <-> Central Service <---> Generated API <> Data-Provider > Backend 1 > ><> Data Provider Backend 2 > > > > On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 5:52 PM David Li wrote: > >> Gavin, thanks for sharing. I'm not so sure you'll find an alternative to >> Substrait, at least one that isn't even more nascent or one that's very >> tied to a particular language, so perhaps it might be better to get >> involved in Substrait and see if it suits your needs? Convincing a team to >> try something new can be hard, though, and it is somewhat of a moving >> target - but Flight SQL is in a similar spot, I think, as it's still >> getting enhancements. >> >> Your project does sound interesting - basically, it sounds like a tabular >> data storage service with query pushdown? >> >> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022, at 19:58, Jacques Nadeau wrote: >> > James, I agree that you could use JSON but that feels a bit hacky >> > (mis-use >> > of the paradigm). Instead, I'd really like to do something like David is >> > suggesting: support Substrait as an alternative to a SQL string. >> > Something like this: >> > >> https://github.com/jacques-n/arrow/commit/e22674fa882e77c2889cf95f69f6e3701db362bc >> > >> > It would be great if someone wanted to pick this up. It would be a nice >> > enhancement to FlightSQL (and provide a structured way to express >> > operations). >> > >> > >> > >> > On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 4:56 PM James Duong > .invalid> >> > wrote: >> > >> >> In the same way that you could write an ODBC driver that takes in text >> >> that's not SQL, you could write a Flight SQL server that takes in text >> >> that's JSON. >> >> Flight SQL doesn't parse the query, so you could create commands that >> are >> >> just JSON text. >> >> >> >> Is that the only bit you need, Gavin? >> >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 4:26 PM Gavin Ray >> wrote: >> >> >> >> > I am enthusiastic about Substrait and have followed it's progress >> eagerly >> >> > =D >> >> > >> >> > When I presented it as a tentative option, there were reservations >> >> because >> >> > of the project/spec being young and the functionality still being >> >> > fleshed out. >> >> > I think if I were having this conversation in say, 8-16 months, it >> would >> >> > have been an easy choice, no doubt. >> >> > >> >> > On a public mailing list (and I can share more details in
Re: [FlightSQL] Structured/Serialized representation of query (like JSON) rather than SQL string possible?
@James Duong
You are absolutely right, I realized this and confirmed whether this
would be possible with Jacques to double-check.
It would amount to what I might call "dollar-store Substrait." It's not
elegant or a good solution, but definitely presents a good duct-tape hack
and is a crafty idea.
I agree with Jacques -- when you think about FlightSQL, what you are
attempting with a query isn't necessarily SQL, but a general data-compute
operation.
SQL just so happens to be a fairly universal way to express them, with an
ANSI standard, but FlightSQL doesn't recognize any particular subset of it
and for all intents and purposes it doesn't matter what the operation
string contains.
Substrait would make a fantastic logical next-feature because it's targeted
as a specification for expressing relational algebra and data-compute
operations
This more-or-less equates to SQL strings (in my mind at least) with a much
better toolkit and Dev UX. If there is anything I can do to help move this
forward, please let me know because I am extremely motivated to do so.
@David Li
Also agreed. Substrait is put together by folks much smarter than myself,
and if I had to hedge my bets, I'd put money on it being the future of
data-compute interop.
I would love nothing more than to adopt this technology and push it along.
Your project does sound interesting - basically, it sounds like a tabular
> data storage service with query pushdown?
>
Yeah this is more or less the details of it (my personal email, with
discretion assumed, is always open)
Imagine an environment where a backend wants to advertise some kind of
schema/data catalog
And then a central service introspects these backends, and dynamically
generates an API from the data catalogues/schemas, where requests get
proxied to the underlying backend service for each schema to actually be
executed
In text, the flow would look something like:
<> Data Provider Backend 0
Client <-> Central Service <---> Generated API <> Data-Provider
Backend 1
<> Data Provider Backend 2
On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 5:52 PM David Li wrote:
> Gavin, thanks for sharing. I'm not so sure you'll find an alternative to
> Substrait, at least one that isn't even more nascent or one that's very
> tied to a particular language, so perhaps it might be better to get
> involved in Substrait and see if it suits your needs? Convincing a team to
> try something new can be hard, though, and it is somewhat of a moving
> target - but Flight SQL is in a similar spot, I think, as it's still
> getting enhancements.
>
> Your project does sound interesting - basically, it sounds like a tabular
> data storage service with query pushdown?
>
> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022, at 19:58, Jacques Nadeau wrote:
> > James, I agree that you could use JSON but that feels a bit hacky
> > (mis-use
> > of the paradigm). Instead, I'd really like to do something like David is
> > suggesting: support Substrait as an alternative to a SQL string.
> > Something like this:
> >
> https://github.com/jacques-n/arrow/commit/e22674fa882e77c2889cf95f69f6e3701db362bc
> >
> > It would be great if someone wanted to pick this up. It would be a nice
> > enhancement to FlightSQL (and provide a structured way to express
> > operations).
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 4:56 PM James Duong .invalid>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> In the same way that you could write an ODBC driver that takes in text
> >> that's not SQL, you could write a Flight SQL server that takes in text
> >> that's JSON.
> >> Flight SQL doesn't parse the query, so you could create commands that
> are
> >> just JSON text.
> >>
> >> Is that the only bit you need, Gavin?
> >>
> >> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 4:26 PM Gavin Ray wrote:
> >>
> >> > I am enthusiastic about Substrait and have followed it's progress
> eagerly
> >> > =D
> >> >
> >> > When I presented it as a tentative option, there were reservations
> >> because
> >> > of the project/spec being young and the functionality still being
> >> > fleshed out.
> >> > I think if I were having this conversation in say, 8-16 months, it
> would
> >> > have been an easy choice, no doubt.
> >> >
> >> > On a public mailing list (and I can share more details in private if
> >> you're
> >> > curious), the gist of it is this:
> >> >
> >> > Some well-defined/backed-by-mature tech solution for expressing data
> >> > compute operations between services would be a useful thing to have
> >> > (Especially if it's language-agnostic)
> >> >
> >> > The goal is for an "implementing service" to have:
> >> > - An introspectable schema (IE, "describe yourself to me")
> >> > - A query/operation execution endpoint (IE: "perform this operation on
> >> your
> >> > data")
> >> >
> >> > With FlightSQL this is possible I believe, but it requires the
> operation
> >> to
> >> > be expressed as a SQL string which isn't ideal.
> >> >
> >> > Working with some programmatic, structured object that has the same
> >> > semantics ("Logical Plan", or whatno
Re: [FlightSQL] Structured/Serialized representation of query (like JSON) rather than SQL string possible?
Gavin, thanks for sharing. I'm not so sure you'll find an alternative to
Substrait, at least one that isn't even more nascent or one that's very tied to
a particular language, so perhaps it might be better to get involved in
Substrait and see if it suits your needs? Convincing a team to try something
new can be hard, though, and it is somewhat of a moving target - but Flight SQL
is in a similar spot, I think, as it's still getting enhancements.
Your project does sound interesting - basically, it sounds like a tabular data
storage service with query pushdown?
On Thu, Mar 3, 2022, at 19:58, Jacques Nadeau wrote:
> James, I agree that you could use JSON but that feels a bit hacky
> (mis-use
> of the paradigm). Instead, I'd really like to do something like David is
> suggesting: support Substrait as an alternative to a SQL string.
> Something like this:
> https://github.com/jacques-n/arrow/commit/e22674fa882e77c2889cf95f69f6e3701db362bc
>
> It would be great if someone wanted to pick this up. It would be a nice
> enhancement to FlightSQL (and provide a structured way to express
> operations).
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 4:56 PM James Duong
> wrote:
>
>> In the same way that you could write an ODBC driver that takes in text
>> that's not SQL, you could write a Flight SQL server that takes in text
>> that's JSON.
>> Flight SQL doesn't parse the query, so you could create commands that are
>> just JSON text.
>>
>> Is that the only bit you need, Gavin?
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 4:26 PM Gavin Ray wrote:
>>
>> > I am enthusiastic about Substrait and have followed it's progress eagerly
>> > =D
>> >
>> > When I presented it as a tentative option, there were reservations
>> because
>> > of the project/spec being young and the functionality still being
>> > fleshed out.
>> > I think if I were having this conversation in say, 8-16 months, it would
>> > have been an easy choice, no doubt.
>> >
>> > On a public mailing list (and I can share more details in private if
>> you're
>> > curious), the gist of it is this:
>> >
>> > Some well-defined/backed-by-mature tech solution for expressing data
>> > compute operations between services would be a useful thing to have
>> > (Especially if it's language-agnostic)
>> >
>> > The goal is for an "implementing service" to have:
>> > - An introspectable schema (IE, "describe yourself to me")
>> > - A query/operation execution endpoint (IE: "perform this operation on
>> your
>> > data")
>> >
>> > With FlightSQL this is possible I believe, but it requires the operation
>> to
>> > be expressed as a SQL string which isn't ideal.
>> >
>> > Working with some programmatic, structured object that has the same
>> > semantics ("Logical Plan", or whatnot) as a SQL query would have, would
>> be
>> > a better experience
>> > (Jacques is on to something here!)
>> >
>> > This interface between services would be somewhat the equivalent of an
>> > "SDK", so it would be nice to have a strongly-typed library for
>> expressing
>> > and building-up query/data-compute ops.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 3:17 PM David Li wrote:
>> >
>> > > You probably want Substrait: https://substrait.io/
>> > >
>> > > Which is being worked on by several people, including Arrow community
>> > > members.
>> > >
>> > > It might be interesting to generalize Flight SQL to include support for
>> > > Substrait. I'm curious what your application, if you're able to share
>> > more.
>> > >
>> > > -David
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, Mar 3, 2022, at 18:05, Gavin Ray wrote:
>> > > > Hiya,
>> > > >
>> > > > I am drafting a proposal for a way to enable services to express data
>> > > > compute operations to each other.
>> > > >
>> > > > However I think it'll be difficult to get buy-in if the only
>> > > representation
>> > > > for queries is as SQL strings.
>> > > >
>> > > > Is there any kind of lower-level API that can be used to express
>> > > operations?
>> > > >
>> > > > IE instead of "SELECT name FROM user"
>> > > >
>> > > > A structured representation like:
>> > > > {
>> > > > "op": "query",
>> > > > "schema": "user",
>> > > > "project": ["name"]
>> > > > }
>> > > >
>> > > > Or maybe this is a bad idea/doesn't make sense?
>> > > >
>> > > > Thank you =)
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *James Duong*
>> Lead Software Developer
>> Bit Quill Technologies Inc.
>> Direct: +1.604.562.6082 | jam...@bitquilltech.com
>> https://www.bitquilltech.com
>>
>> This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may
>> contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review,
>> use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the
>> intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy
>> all copies of the original message. Thank you.
>>
Re: [FlightSQL] Structured/Serialized representation of query (like JSON) rather than SQL string possible?
James, I agree that you could use JSON but that feels a bit hacky (mis-use
of the paradigm). Instead, I'd really like to do something like David is
suggesting: support Substrait as an alternative to a SQL string.
Something like this:
https://github.com/jacques-n/arrow/commit/e22674fa882e77c2889cf95f69f6e3701db362bc
It would be great if someone wanted to pick this up. It would be a nice
enhancement to FlightSQL (and provide a structured way to express
operations).
On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 4:56 PM James Duong
wrote:
> In the same way that you could write an ODBC driver that takes in text
> that's not SQL, you could write a Flight SQL server that takes in text
> that's JSON.
> Flight SQL doesn't parse the query, so you could create commands that are
> just JSON text.
>
> Is that the only bit you need, Gavin?
>
> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 4:26 PM Gavin Ray wrote:
>
> > I am enthusiastic about Substrait and have followed it's progress eagerly
> > =D
> >
> > When I presented it as a tentative option, there were reservations
> because
> > of the project/spec being young and the functionality still being
> > fleshed out.
> > I think if I were having this conversation in say, 8-16 months, it would
> > have been an easy choice, no doubt.
> >
> > On a public mailing list (and I can share more details in private if
> you're
> > curious), the gist of it is this:
> >
> > Some well-defined/backed-by-mature tech solution for expressing data
> > compute operations between services would be a useful thing to have
> > (Especially if it's language-agnostic)
> >
> > The goal is for an "implementing service" to have:
> > - An introspectable schema (IE, "describe yourself to me")
> > - A query/operation execution endpoint (IE: "perform this operation on
> your
> > data")
> >
> > With FlightSQL this is possible I believe, but it requires the operation
> to
> > be expressed as a SQL string which isn't ideal.
> >
> > Working with some programmatic, structured object that has the same
> > semantics ("Logical Plan", or whatnot) as a SQL query would have, would
> be
> > a better experience
> > (Jacques is on to something here!)
> >
> > This interface between services would be somewhat the equivalent of an
> > "SDK", so it would be nice to have a strongly-typed library for
> expressing
> > and building-up query/data-compute ops.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 3:17 PM David Li wrote:
> >
> > > You probably want Substrait: https://substrait.io/
> > >
> > > Which is being worked on by several people, including Arrow community
> > > members.
> > >
> > > It might be interesting to generalize Flight SQL to include support for
> > > Substrait. I'm curious what your application, if you're able to share
> > more.
> > >
> > > -David
> > >
> > > On Thu, Mar 3, 2022, at 18:05, Gavin Ray wrote:
> > > > Hiya,
> > > >
> > > > I am drafting a proposal for a way to enable services to express data
> > > > compute operations to each other.
> > > >
> > > > However I think it'll be difficult to get buy-in if the only
> > > representation
> > > > for queries is as SQL strings.
> > > >
> > > > Is there any kind of lower-level API that can be used to express
> > > operations?
> > > >
> > > > IE instead of "SELECT name FROM user"
> > > >
> > > > A structured representation like:
> > > > {
> > > > "op": "query",
> > > > "schema": "user",
> > > > "project": ["name"]
> > > > }
> > > >
> > > > Or maybe this is a bad idea/doesn't make sense?
> > > >
> > > > Thank you =)
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
>
> *James Duong*
> Lead Software Developer
> Bit Quill Technologies Inc.
> Direct: +1.604.562.6082 | jam...@bitquilltech.com
> https://www.bitquilltech.com
>
> This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may
> contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review,
> use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the
> intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy
> all copies of the original message. Thank you.
>
Re: [FlightSQL] Structured/Serialized representation of query (like JSON) rather than SQL string possible?
In the same way that you could write an ODBC driver that takes in text
that's not SQL, you could write a Flight SQL server that takes in text
that's JSON.
Flight SQL doesn't parse the query, so you could create commands that are
just JSON text.
Is that the only bit you need, Gavin?
On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 4:26 PM Gavin Ray wrote:
> I am enthusiastic about Substrait and have followed it's progress eagerly
> =D
>
> When I presented it as a tentative option, there were reservations because
> of the project/spec being young and the functionality still being
> fleshed out.
> I think if I were having this conversation in say, 8-16 months, it would
> have been an easy choice, no doubt.
>
> On a public mailing list (and I can share more details in private if you're
> curious), the gist of it is this:
>
> Some well-defined/backed-by-mature tech solution for expressing data
> compute operations between services would be a useful thing to have
> (Especially if it's language-agnostic)
>
> The goal is for an "implementing service" to have:
> - An introspectable schema (IE, "describe yourself to me")
> - A query/operation execution endpoint (IE: "perform this operation on your
> data")
>
> With FlightSQL this is possible I believe, but it requires the operation to
> be expressed as a SQL string which isn't ideal.
>
> Working with some programmatic, structured object that has the same
> semantics ("Logical Plan", or whatnot) as a SQL query would have, would be
> a better experience
> (Jacques is on to something here!)
>
> This interface between services would be somewhat the equivalent of an
> "SDK", so it would be nice to have a strongly-typed library for expressing
> and building-up query/data-compute ops.
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 3:17 PM David Li wrote:
>
> > You probably want Substrait: https://substrait.io/
> >
> > Which is being worked on by several people, including Arrow community
> > members.
> >
> > It might be interesting to generalize Flight SQL to include support for
> > Substrait. I'm curious what your application, if you're able to share
> more.
> >
> > -David
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 3, 2022, at 18:05, Gavin Ray wrote:
> > > Hiya,
> > >
> > > I am drafting a proposal for a way to enable services to express data
> > > compute operations to each other.
> > >
> > > However I think it'll be difficult to get buy-in if the only
> > representation
> > > for queries is as SQL strings.
> > >
> > > Is there any kind of lower-level API that can be used to express
> > operations?
> > >
> > > IE instead of "SELECT name FROM user"
> > >
> > > A structured representation like:
> > > {
> > > "op": "query",
> > > "schema": "user",
> > > "project": ["name"]
> > > }
> > >
> > > Or maybe this is a bad idea/doesn't make sense?
> > >
> > > Thank you =)
> >
>
--
*James Duong*
Lead Software Developer
Bit Quill Technologies Inc.
Direct: +1.604.562.6082 | jam...@bitquilltech.com
https://www.bitquilltech.com
This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may
contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review,
use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the
intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy
all copies of the original message. Thank you.
Re: [FlightSQL] Structured/Serialized representation of query (like JSON) rather than SQL string possible?
I am enthusiastic about Substrait and have followed it's progress eagerly =D
When I presented it as a tentative option, there were reservations because
of the project/spec being young and the functionality still being
fleshed out.
I think if I were having this conversation in say, 8-16 months, it would
have been an easy choice, no doubt.
On a public mailing list (and I can share more details in private if you're
curious), the gist of it is this:
Some well-defined/backed-by-mature tech solution for expressing data
compute operations between services would be a useful thing to have
(Especially if it's language-agnostic)
The goal is for an "implementing service" to have:
- An introspectable schema (IE, "describe yourself to me")
- A query/operation execution endpoint (IE: "perform this operation on your
data")
With FlightSQL this is possible I believe, but it requires the operation to
be expressed as a SQL string which isn't ideal.
Working with some programmatic, structured object that has the same
semantics ("Logical Plan", or whatnot) as a SQL query would have, would be
a better experience
(Jacques is on to something here!)
This interface between services would be somewhat the equivalent of an
"SDK", so it would be nice to have a strongly-typed library for expressing
and building-up query/data-compute ops.
On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 3:17 PM David Li wrote:
> You probably want Substrait: https://substrait.io/
>
> Which is being worked on by several people, including Arrow community
> members.
>
> It might be interesting to generalize Flight SQL to include support for
> Substrait. I'm curious what your application, if you're able to share more.
>
> -David
>
> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022, at 18:05, Gavin Ray wrote:
> > Hiya,
> >
> > I am drafting a proposal for a way to enable services to express data
> > compute operations to each other.
> >
> > However I think it'll be difficult to get buy-in if the only
> representation
> > for queries is as SQL strings.
> >
> > Is there any kind of lower-level API that can be used to express
> operations?
> >
> > IE instead of "SELECT name FROM user"
> >
> > A structured representation like:
> > {
> > "op": "query",
> > "schema": "user",
> > "project": ["name"]
> > }
> >
> > Or maybe this is a bad idea/doesn't make sense?
> >
> > Thank you =)
>
Re: [FlightSQL] Structured/Serialized representation of query (like JSON) rather than SQL string possible?
You probably want Substrait: https://substrait.io/
Which is being worked on by several people, including Arrow community members.
It might be interesting to generalize Flight SQL to include support for
Substrait. I'm curious what your application, if you're able to share more.
-David
On Thu, Mar 3, 2022, at 18:05, Gavin Ray wrote:
> Hiya,
>
> I am drafting a proposal for a way to enable services to express data
> compute operations to each other.
>
> However I think it'll be difficult to get buy-in if the only representation
> for queries is as SQL strings.
>
> Is there any kind of lower-level API that can be used to express operations?
>
> IE instead of "SELECT name FROM user"
>
> A structured representation like:
> {
> "op": "query",
> "schema": "user",
> "project": ["name"]
> }
>
> Or maybe this is a bad idea/doesn't make sense?
>
> Thank you =)
[FlightSQL] Structured/Serialized representation of query (like JSON) rather than SQL string possible?
Hiya,
I am drafting a proposal for a way to enable services to express data
compute operations to each other.
However I think it'll be difficult to get buy-in if the only representation
for queries is as SQL strings.
Is there any kind of lower-level API that can be used to express operations?
IE instead of "SELECT name FROM user"
A structured representation like:
{
"op": "query",
"schema": "user",
"project": ["name"]
}
Or maybe this is a bad idea/doesn't make sense?
Thank you =)
