Re: Apache Bloodhound will be moving to the Attic

[Greg Stein]

Applied, and live. Thanks!!


On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 3:02 PM Daniel Brownridge 
wrote:

> Hi Greg,
>
> I've focused on updating the content of the current site to make it a
> little more friendly to new comers who are currently presented with dead
> links.
>
> So here is a patch to the current static website. It only affects
> index.html.
>
> Created by:
>
> $ svn diff index.html > siteupdate.patch
>
> Summary of changes:
>
>- Replace dead links to live.bloodhound.apache.org with most recent
>web.archive.org capture.
>- All original links are still present in the code just commented out
>so can be easily switched back when needed.
>- Brought details of the mailing list onto the main page.
>- Added a brief note about current state of the project in the getting
>involved section.
>- Minor tweaks to wording to make the page make sense given current
>situation.
>- Some re-formatting of dense HTML to make it easy to work with for
>manual editing.
>
> I have noted that there has been consensus reached to switch to Pelican
> (which I don't know). I thought I'd submit this patch anyway since I've
> done it and it should be quick to apply in the meantime while you're
> looking at Pelican. If Pelican is pretty much ready to go then the content
> of this patch may still be useful.
>
> Please could you review and apply if appropriate.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Daniel
>
> *Daniel Brownridge*
> dan...@freshnewpage.com
> +44 779 138 5626
> On 21/08/2023 18:08, Greg Stein wrote:
>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/bloodhound/site/
>
> It is read-only, but I can override that to apply any patches you send to
> dev@
>
> Cheers,
> -g
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 21, 2023, 01:17 Daniel Brownridge 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Gary,
>>
>> Untill we can get live back it might be a good idea tput some more basic
>> info on the landing page and remove the dead links etc.
>>
>> How is the website (bloodhound.apache.org) hosted / updated / where does
>> the code live?
>>
>> Happy to take on maintenance if that helps would just need some help
>> getting started?
>>
>> If this can be done by email great but also can co-ordinate a time when
>> both on-line if that helps?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Daniel
>>
>> On Mon, 21 Aug 2023, 03:47 Gary Martin,  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> It is certainly good to see some interest in getting things going again.
>>> I should probably have said something sooner but Greg did summarise the
>>> situation pretty well.
>>>
>>> From the point of view of where code is submitted, I totally understand
>>> the desire to use git rather than subversion when that is what people are
>>> likely to be most used to. When this has been discussed before I'm pretty
>>> sure we came to the conclusion that use of git would reduce barriers to
>>> participation. I don't want to be forcing anyone to use subversion.
>>>
>>> The bloodhound-core repo is already git only and if GitHub PRs are what
>>> the development community wants to use, we should support that.
>>>
>>> Meanwhile, I can't say I know if the older bloodhound repo can accept
>>> changes via gitbox or GitHub. If it is not currently set up correctly for
>>> that, we may still want to delay making changes until we decide that we are
>>> going to continue 0.8 development.  I imagine that INFRA has made it easy
>>> to do but it feels better not to ask for work that may not prove necessary.
>>> That said, if enough people disagree with my suggestion here then I will
>>> get to requesting it.
>>>
>>> I think that in principle we can get live.bloodhound working again. I
>>> can of course look into this. Using GitHub for issues for a while is fine
>>> though.
>>>
>>> I noted some potential concern about this list getting busy because of a
>>> lack of an issue tracker. I would still be encouraging us to use this
>>> mailing list for some discussion when issue tracking is restored. It
>>> provides a good point of contact for people who don't want to go through
>>> all the tickets. That is not to say that everything has to be discussed but
>>> some commentary that allows others to be brought into the discussion about
>>> the direction we are taking should be useful.
>>>
>>> There is probably plenty I haven't addressed here but I think that the
>>> direction of the project is an important one to discuss further. My
>>> experimental code has certainly not got particularly far in its objectives
>>> at this point. There are obviously pros and cons to such an approach.
>>>
>>> In particular I would note that a clean(ish) break from Trac brings with
>>> it opportunities to control all of what it is to be the issue tracker while
>>> building on sane webserver frameworks. It does, however, lead to the
>>> question of what such a break would ultimately look like. Is feature parity
>>> something that would be desired? Would we at least be happy to avoid
>>> support for trac plugins?
>>>
>>> Obviously continuing the development of Apache Bloodhound 0.8 certainly
>>> is not out 

Re: Apache Bloodhound will be moving to the Attic

[Daniel Brownridge]

Hi Greg,

I've focused on updating the content of the current site to make it a 
little more friendly to new comers who are currently presented with dead 
links.


So here is a patch to the current static website. It only affects 
index.html.


Created by:

$ svn diff index.html > siteupdate.patch

Summary of changes:

 * Replace dead links to live.bloodhound.apache.org with most recent
   web.archive.org capture.
 * All original links are still present in the code just commented out
   so can be easily switched back when needed.
 * Brought details of the mailing list onto the main page.
 * Added a brief note about current state of the project in the getting
   involved section.
 * Minor tweaks to wording to make the page make sense given current
   situation.
 * Some re-formatting of dense HTML to make it easy to work with for
   manual editing.

I have noted that there has been consensus reached to switch to Pelican 
(which I don't know). I thought I'd submit this patch anyway since I've 
done it and it should be quick to apply in the meantime while you're 
looking at Pelican. If Pelican is pretty much ready to go then the 
content of this patch may still be useful.


Please could you review and apply if appropriate.

Many thanks,

Daniel

*Daniel Brownridge*
dan...@freshnewpage.com
+44 779 138 5626

On 21/08/2023 18:08, Greg Stein wrote:

https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/bloodhound/site/

It is read-only, but I can override that to apply any patches you send 
to dev@


Cheers,
-g


On Mon, Aug 21, 2023, 01:17 Daniel Brownridge 
 wrote:


Hi Gary,

Untill we can get live back it might be a good idea tput some more
basic info on the landing page and remove the dead links etc.

How is the website (bloodhound.apache.org
) hosted / updated / where does the
code live?

Happy to take on maintenance if that helps would just need some
help getting started?

If this can be done by email great but also can co-ordinate a time
when both on-line if that helps?

Cheers,
Daniel

On Mon, 21 Aug 2023, 03:47 Gary Martin, 
wrote:

Hi,

It is certainly good to see some interest in getting things
going again. I should probably have said something sooner but
Greg did summarise the situation pretty well.

From the point of view of where code is submitted, I totally
understand the desire to use git rather than subversion when
that is what people are likely to be most used to. When this
has been discussed before I'm pretty sure we came to the
conclusion that use of git would reduce barriers to
participation. I don't want to be forcing anyone to use
subversion.

The bloodhound-core repo is already git only and if GitHub PRs
are what the development community wants to use, we should
support that.

Meanwhile, I can't say I know if the older bloodhound repo can
accept changes via gitbox or GitHub. If it is not currently
set up correctly for that, we may still want to delay making
changes until we decide that we are going to continue 0.8
development.  I imagine that INFRA has made it easy to do but
it feels better not to ask for work that may not prove
necessary. That said, if enough people disagree with my
suggestion here then I will get to requesting it.

I think that in principle we can get live.bloodhound working
again. I can of course look into this. Using GitHub for issues
for a while is fine though.

I noted some potential concern about this list getting busy
because of a lack of an issue tracker. I would still be
encouraging us to use this mailing list for some discussion
when issue tracking is restored. It provides a good point of
contact for people who don't want to go through all the
tickets. That is not to say that everything has to be
discussed but some commentary that allows others to be brought
into the discussion about the direction we are taking should
be useful.

There is probably plenty I haven't addressed here but I think
that the direction of the project is an important one to
discuss further. My experimental code has certainly not got
particularly far in its objectives at this point. There are
obviously pros and cons to such an approach.

In particular I would note that a clean(ish) break from Trac
brings with it opportunities to control all of what it is to
be the issue tracker while building on sane webserver
frameworks. It does, however, lead to the question of what
such a break would ultimately look like. Is feature parity
something that would be desired? Would we at least be happy to
avoid support for trac plugins?

Obviously continuing the development 

Re: Apache Bloodhound will be moving to the Attic

[Greg Stein]

https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/bloodhound/site/

It is read-only, but I can override that to apply any patches you send to
dev@

Cheers,
-g


On Mon, Aug 21, 2023, 01:17 Daniel Brownridge 
wrote:

> Hi Gary,
>
> Untill we can get live back it might be a good idea tput some more basic
> info on the landing page and remove the dead links etc.
>
> How is the website (bloodhound.apache.org) hosted / updated / where does
> the code live?
>
> Happy to take on maintenance if that helps would just need some help
> getting started?
>
> If this can be done by email great but also can co-ordinate a time when
> both on-line if that helps?
>
> Cheers,
> Daniel
>
> On Mon, 21 Aug 2023, 03:47 Gary Martin,  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> It is certainly good to see some interest in getting things going again.
>> I should probably have said something sooner but Greg did summarise the
>> situation pretty well.
>>
>> From the point of view of where code is submitted, I totally understand
>> the desire to use git rather than subversion when that is what people are
>> likely to be most used to. When this has been discussed before I'm pretty
>> sure we came to the conclusion that use of git would reduce barriers to
>> participation. I don't want to be forcing anyone to use subversion.
>>
>> The bloodhound-core repo is already git only and if GitHub PRs are what
>> the development community wants to use, we should support that.
>>
>> Meanwhile, I can't say I know if the older bloodhound repo can accept
>> changes via gitbox or GitHub. If it is not currently set up correctly for
>> that, we may still want to delay making changes until we decide that we are
>> going to continue 0.8 development.  I imagine that INFRA has made it easy
>> to do but it feels better not to ask for work that may not prove necessary.
>> That said, if enough people disagree with my suggestion here then I will
>> get to requesting it.
>>
>> I think that in principle we can get live.bloodhound working again. I can
>> of course look into this. Using GitHub for issues for a while is fine
>> though.
>>
>> I noted some potential concern about this list getting busy because of a
>> lack of an issue tracker. I would still be encouraging us to use this
>> mailing list for some discussion when issue tracking is restored. It
>> provides a good point of contact for people who don't want to go through
>> all the tickets. That is not to say that everything has to be discussed but
>> some commentary that allows others to be brought into the discussion about
>> the direction we are taking should be useful.
>>
>> There is probably plenty I haven't addressed here but I think that the
>> direction of the project is an important one to discuss further. My
>> experimental code has certainly not got particularly far in its objectives
>> at this point. There are obviously pros and cons to such an approach.
>>
>> In particular I would note that a clean(ish) break from Trac brings with
>> it opportunities to control all of what it is to be the issue tracker while
>> building on sane webserver frameworks. It does, however, lead to the
>> question of what such a break would ultimately look like. Is feature parity
>> something that would be desired? Would we at least be happy to avoid
>> support for trac plugins?
>>
>> Obviously continuing the development of Apache Bloodhound 0.8 certainly
>> is not out of the question but this could also be a difficult path. There
>> could be some interesting decisions to make too. The code obviously needs
>> to move to Python 3 and almost certainly a shift to be built on a newer
>> version of Trac.
>>
>> Anyway, I'll leave it there for the moment. In the meantime I'll try to
>> eke out some more time to do stuff this week, hopefully including putting
>> more of my thoughts together somewhere useful.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Gary
>>
>> On Sun, 20 Aug 2023, at 7:33 PM, Nikolay Tsanov wrote:
>> > I fully agree with Daniel and the top ten priorities he suggested. I
>> > haven't looked at Gary's code either (assuming this is the repo at
>> > https://github.com/apache/bloodhound-core), this is the first thing I
>> will
>> > do, and I will share my feedback as soon as I can.
>> >
>> > Nikolay Tsanov
>> > +1-819-635-7198
>> >
>> > On Sun, Aug 20, 2023 at 1:38 PM Daniel Brownridge <
>> > daniel.brownri...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I just wanted to say thank you to Greg and Shane for providing all the
>> >> detailed information so far. It feels like we're not quite dead (I
>> mean in
>> >> the Attic) yet, but will be soon if we don't do something.
>> >>
>> >> In the interests of maintaining momentum here ,which seems to be
>> >> gathering, I'll keep sharing my thoughts. I'm happy to help in
>> whatever way
>> >> I can.
>> >>
>> >> Personally I don't think I'm in a position to commit just yet even if I
>> >> wanted to, I've not yet signed an ICLA but have no problem doing so, I
>> just
>> >> never got round to it before. So, I'll make that my personal mission
>> 

Re: Apache Bloodhound will be moving to the Attic

[Daniel Brownridge]

Hi Gary,

Untill we can get live back it might be a good idea tput some more basic
info on the landing page and remove the dead links etc.

How is the website (bloodhound.apache.org) hosted / updated / where does
the code live?

Happy to take on maintenance if that helps would just need some help
getting started?

If this can be done by email great but also can co-ordinate a time when
both on-line if that helps?

Cheers,
Daniel

On Mon, 21 Aug 2023, 03:47 Gary Martin,  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> It is certainly good to see some interest in getting things going again. I
> should probably have said something sooner but Greg did summarise the
> situation pretty well.
>
> From the point of view of where code is submitted, I totally understand
> the desire to use git rather than subversion when that is what people are
> likely to be most used to. When this has been discussed before I'm pretty
> sure we came to the conclusion that use of git would reduce barriers to
> participation. I don't want to be forcing anyone to use subversion.
>
> The bloodhound-core repo is already git only and if GitHub PRs are what
> the development community wants to use, we should support that.
>
> Meanwhile, I can't say I know if the older bloodhound repo can accept
> changes via gitbox or GitHub. If it is not currently set up correctly for
> that, we may still want to delay making changes until we decide that we are
> going to continue 0.8 development.  I imagine that INFRA has made it easy
> to do but it feels better not to ask for work that may not prove necessary.
> That said, if enough people disagree with my suggestion here then I will
> get to requesting it.
>
> I think that in principle we can get live.bloodhound working again. I can
> of course look into this. Using GitHub for issues for a while is fine
> though.
>
> I noted some potential concern about this list getting busy because of a
> lack of an issue tracker. I would still be encouraging us to use this
> mailing list for some discussion when issue tracking is restored. It
> provides a good point of contact for people who don't want to go through
> all the tickets. That is not to say that everything has to be discussed but
> some commentary that allows others to be brought into the discussion about
> the direction we are taking should be useful.
>
> There is probably plenty I haven't addressed here but I think that the
> direction of the project is an important one to discuss further. My
> experimental code has certainly not got particularly far in its objectives
> at this point. There are obviously pros and cons to such an approach.
>
> In particular I would note that a clean(ish) break from Trac brings with
> it opportunities to control all of what it is to be the issue tracker while
> building on sane webserver frameworks. It does, however, lead to the
> question of what such a break would ultimately look like. Is feature parity
> something that would be desired? Would we at least be happy to avoid
> support for trac plugins?
>
> Obviously continuing the development of Apache Bloodhound 0.8 certainly is
> not out of the question but this could also be a difficult path. There
> could be some interesting decisions to make too. The code obviously needs
> to move to Python 3 and almost certainly a shift to be built on a newer
> version of Trac.
>
> Anyway, I'll leave it there for the moment. In the meantime I'll try to
> eke out some more time to do stuff this week, hopefully including putting
> more of my thoughts together somewhere useful.
>
> Cheers,
> Gary
>
> On Sun, 20 Aug 2023, at 7:33 PM, Nikolay Tsanov wrote:
> > I fully agree with Daniel and the top ten priorities he suggested. I
> > haven't looked at Gary's code either (assuming this is the repo at
> > https://github.com/apache/bloodhound-core), this is the first thing I
> will
> > do, and I will share my feedback as soon as I can.
> >
> > Nikolay Tsanov
> > +1-819-635-7198
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 20, 2023 at 1:38 PM Daniel Brownridge <
> > daniel.brownri...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I just wanted to say thank you to Greg and Shane for providing all the
> >> detailed information so far. It feels like we're not quite dead (I mean
> in
> >> the Attic) yet, but will be soon if we don't do something.
> >>
> >> In the interests of maintaining momentum here ,which seems to be
> >> gathering, I'll keep sharing my thoughts. I'm happy to help in whatever
> way
> >> I can.
> >>
> >> Personally I don't think I'm in a position to commit just yet even if I
> >> wanted to, I've not yet signed an ICLA but have no problem doing so, I
> just
> >> never got round to it before. So, I'll make that my personal mission for
> >> this week, to sort that an any associated Apache official admin with the
> >> intention that that will put me in a position to be more useful to the
> >> project going forward. As I get into that I may need to ask for more
> >> specific help but I don't quite know what I'm asking for yet!
> >>
> >> As for some 

Re: Apache Bloodhound will be moving to the Attic

[Greg Stein]

On Sun, Aug 20, 2023 at 7:59 AM Nikolay Tsanov  wrote:
>...

> The choice of a version control system goes far beyond the tech stack, it
> defines the governance at the technology layer of the Bloodhound
> architecture
>

No. Governance is defined by Apache rules of peer conduct. The version
control system is orthogonal to how a community reaches consensus and
develops code.

If English language is the issue and you meant "DESIGN at the technology
layer of the Bloodhound architecture", then you're wrong. A version control
system has zero impact on architecture. The VCS merely helps to organize
workflow/process. git sucks at this, GitHub is awesome at this, and svn
falls in between.

>...

> In personal capacity, I must regretfully let you know that I will not
> invest any time until this essential technology architecture concern (Git
> vs SVN) is formally addressed
>

Never attempt extortion of the community to get what you want.

You can leave. Your contributions are not worth more than anybody else's,
and are certainly not required. The version control choice will not be made
by you.

-g

Re: Apache Bloodhound will be moving to the Attic

[Gary Martin]

Hi,

It is certainly good to see some interest in getting things going again. I 
should probably have said something sooner but Greg did summarise the situation 
pretty well.

>From the point of view of where code is submitted, I totally understand the 
>desire to use git rather than subversion when that is what people are likely 
>to be most used to. When this has been discussed before I'm pretty sure we 
>came to the conclusion that use of git would reduce barriers to participation. 
>I don't want to be forcing anyone to use subversion.

The bloodhound-core repo is already git only and if GitHub PRs are what the 
development community wants to use, we should support that. 

Meanwhile, I can't say I know if the older bloodhound repo can accept changes 
via gitbox or GitHub. If it is not currently set up correctly for that, we may 
still want to delay making changes until we decide that we are going to 
continue 0.8 development.  I imagine that INFRA has made it easy to do but it 
feels better not to ask for work that may not prove necessary. That said, if 
enough people disagree with my suggestion here then I will get to requesting it.

I think that in principle we can get live.bloodhound working again. I can of 
course look into this. Using GitHub for issues for a while is fine though.

I noted some potential concern about this list getting busy because of a lack 
of an issue tracker. I would still be encouraging us to use this mailing list 
for some discussion when issue tracking is restored. It provides a good point 
of contact for people who don't want to go through all the tickets. That is not 
to say that everything has to be discussed but some commentary that allows 
others to be brought into the discussion about the direction we are taking 
should be useful.

There is probably plenty I haven't addressed here but I think that the 
direction of the project is an important one to discuss further. My 
experimental code has certainly not got particularly far in its objectives at 
this point. There are obviously pros and cons to such an approach.

In particular I would note that a clean(ish) break from Trac brings with it 
opportunities to control all of what it is to be the issue tracker while 
building on sane webserver frameworks. It does, however, lead to the question 
of what such a break would ultimately look like. Is feature parity something 
that would be desired? Would we at least be happy to avoid support for trac 
plugins?

Obviously continuing the development of Apache Bloodhound 0.8 certainly is not 
out of the question but this could also be a difficult path. There could be 
some interesting decisions to make too. The code obviously needs to move to 
Python 3 and almost certainly a shift to be built on a newer version of Trac.

Anyway, I'll leave it there for the moment. In the meantime I'll try to eke out 
some more time to do stuff this week, hopefully including putting more of my 
thoughts together somewhere useful.

Cheers,
Gary

On Sun, 20 Aug 2023, at 7:33 PM, Nikolay Tsanov wrote:
> I fully agree with Daniel and the top ten priorities he suggested. I
> haven't looked at Gary's code either (assuming this is the repo at
> https://github.com/apache/bloodhound-core), this is the first thing I will
> do, and I will share my feedback as soon as I can.
>
> Nikolay Tsanov
> +1-819-635-7198
>
> On Sun, Aug 20, 2023 at 1:38 PM Daniel Brownridge <
> daniel.brownri...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I just wanted to say thank you to Greg and Shane for providing all the
>> detailed information so far. It feels like we're not quite dead (I mean in
>> the Attic) yet, but will be soon if we don't do something.
>>
>> In the interests of maintaining momentum here ,which seems to be
>> gathering, I'll keep sharing my thoughts. I'm happy to help in whatever way
>> I can.
>>
>> Personally I don't think I'm in a position to commit just yet even if I
>> wanted to, I've not yet signed an ICLA but have no problem doing so, I just
>> never got round to it before. So, I'll make that my personal mission for
>> this week, to sort that an any associated Apache official admin with the
>> intention that that will put me in a position to be more useful to the
>> project going forward. As I get into that I may need to ask for more
>> specific help but I don't quite know what I'm asking for yet!
>>
>> As for some project goals it feels like there are two main areas we can
>> focus on.
>>
>> The first is practical getting the project up and running stuff. The
>> second is future development and direction stuff. To me that feels like the
>> right order because if we focus on the former it gives a bit more time to
>> gather our collective thoughts and discuss the later.
>>
>> So for the project part. I definitely support the use of Git as the
>> primary source code management system and think we should move towards
>> that. If that's GitHub then that completely works for me too. Correct me if
>> I'm wrong, but I think that 

Re: Apache Bloodhound will be moving to the Attic

[Nikolay Tsanov]

I fully agree with Daniel and the top ten priorities he suggested. I
haven't looked at Gary's code either (assuming this is the repo at
https://github.com/apache/bloodhound-core), this is the first thing I will
do, and I will share my feedback as soon as I can.

Nikolay Tsanov
+1-819-635-7198

On Sun, Aug 20, 2023 at 1:38 PM Daniel Brownridge <
daniel.brownri...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I just wanted to say thank you to Greg and Shane for providing all the
> detailed information so far. It feels like we're not quite dead (I mean in
> the Attic) yet, but will be soon if we don't do something.
>
> In the interests of maintaining momentum here ,which seems to be
> gathering, I'll keep sharing my thoughts. I'm happy to help in whatever way
> I can.
>
> Personally I don't think I'm in a position to commit just yet even if I
> wanted to, I've not yet signed an ICLA but have no problem doing so, I just
> never got round to it before. So, I'll make that my personal mission for
> this week, to sort that an any associated Apache official admin with the
> intention that that will put me in a position to be more useful to the
> project going forward. As I get into that I may need to ask for more
> specific help but I don't quite know what I'm asking for yet!
>
> As for some project goals it feels like there are two main areas we can
> focus on.
>
> The first is practical getting the project up and running stuff. The
> second is future development and direction stuff. To me that feels like the
> right order because if we focus on the former it gives a bit more time to
> gather our collective thoughts and discuss the later.
>
> So for the project part. I definitely support the use of Git as the
> primary source code management system and think we should move towards
> that. If that's GitHub then that completely works for me too. Correct me if
> I'm wrong, but I think that it was at one point that Bloodhound was
> 'self-hosting' for Issues on live.bloodhound.apache.org and for whatever
> reason that's not the case now. Getting back to that feels like a nice
> thing to aim for medium term. There may be multiple things involved in
> doing that though and whilst this may seem contradictory I actually also
> agree with Nikolay in the short-term, which is we should just use GitHub
> issues (or whatever) until we've achieved the admin around getting a live
> Bloodhound up and running again.
>
> To elaborate a little on the above suggestion since it might seem odd,
> through my work recently I've had a fair bit of experience with these
> chicken-and-egg style problems and have dealt with a handful of situations
> where to achieve X you need Y but to have Y you first need X and things go
> round in circles for ages. But if you look at it differently and realise
> that although Z might not be what you want for some other reason in the
> short term Z provides an alternative route to X and once you have X you can
> go back and get Y later then things unlock and you get moving again. So if
> 'GitHub Issues' can be our 'Z' here then I'm all for that.
>
> In the very-short term lacking any form of issue tracker it feels like
> this mailing list probably has to serve as our main point of contact until
> we can fix that. That will mean that the mailing list in the short term
> might get (relatively) busy (but as previously stated there are only a few
> of us so we can probably cope).
>
> As for the direction, I support transitioning Bloodhound to being Django
> based. I have to be honest I haven't yet looked in detail at the
> experimental work that has been done by Gary in that area yet, but that too
> is going on my todo list. In general though I really like the idea of
> having a Python based OpenSource issue tracker that is somewhat comparable
> in terms of practical utility to the likes of the more commercial tools. By
> that I mean multi-project, support workflows, and basic Agile features such
> as a backlog and Kanban board style view.
>
> So here is a starter for 10 suggested priority list (fully expecting
> comments / disagreements but that's the point)
>
> 1. Get a live list of issues we can all get around, somehow, somewhere.
> Current best suggestion (which I agree with) use GitHub issues.
>
> 2. Switch from Subversion to Git as primary source control.
>
> 3. Resurrect live.bloodhound.apache.bloodhound.org if possible with the
> current version of Bloodhound.
>
> 4. Make a plan to get back off GitHub issues again.
>
> 5. Get consensus on the future development roadmap. (Possible features
> suggestion - 'Make it easy to import issues from Github Issues!')
>
> What do you think?
>
> *Daniel Brownridge*
> dan...@freshnewpage.com
> +44 779 138 5626
> On 20/08/2023 13:59, Nikolay Tsanov wrote:
>
> @Greg Stein   , thank you for the timely 
> and commendably
> thorough response. As far as the development part of the community is
> concerned, to top priority concern that should be dealt with is, as you
> defined it:
> "- if we want to 

Re: Apache Bloodhound will be moving to the Attic

[Daniel Brownridge]

I just wanted to say thank you to Greg and Shane for providing all the 
detailed information so far. It feels like we're not quite dead (I mean 
in the Attic) yet, but will be soon if we don't do something.


In the interests of maintaining momentum here ,which seems to be 
gathering, I'll keep sharing my thoughts. I'm happy to help in whatever 
way I can.


Personally I don't think I'm in a position to commit just yet even if I 
wanted to, I've not yet signed an ICLA but have no problem doing so, I 
just never got round to it before. So, I'll make that my personal 
mission for this week, to sort that an any associated Apache official 
admin with the intention that that will put me in a position to be more 
useful to the project going forward. As I get into that I may need to 
ask for more specific help but I don't quite know what I'm asking for yet!


As for some project goals it feels like there are two main areas we can 
focus on.


The first is practical getting the project up and running stuff. The 
second is future development and direction stuff. To me that feels like 
the right order because if we focus on the former it gives a bit more 
time to gather our collective thoughts and discuss the later.


So for the project part. I definitely support the use of Git as the 
primary source code management system and think we should move towards 
that. If that's GitHub then that completely works for me too. Correct me 
if I'm wrong, but I think that it was at one point that Bloodhound was 
'self-hosting' for Issues on live.bloodhound.apache.org and for whatever 
reason that's not the case now. Getting back to that feels like a nice 
thing to aim for medium term. There may be multiple things involved in 
doing that though and whilst this may seem contradictory I actually also 
agree with Nikolay in the short-term, which is we should just use GitHub 
issues (or whatever) until we've achieved the admin around getting a 
live Bloodhound up and running again.


To elaborate a little on the above suggestion since it might seem odd, 
through my work recently I've had a fair bit of experience with these 
chicken-and-egg style problems and have dealt with a handful of 
situations where to achieve X you need Y but to have Y you first need X 
and things go round in circles for ages. But if you look at it 
differently and realise that although Z might not be what you want for 
some other reason in the short term Z provides an alternative route to X 
and once you have X you can go back and get Y later then things unlock 
and you get moving again. So if 'GitHub Issues' can be our 'Z' here then 
I'm all for that.


In the very-short term lacking any form of issue tracker it feels like 
this mailing list probably has to serve as our main point of contact 
until we can fix that. That will mean that the mailing list in the short 
term might get (relatively) busy (but as previously stated there are 
only a few of us so we can probably cope).


As for the direction, I support transitioning Bloodhound to being Django 
based. I have to be honest I haven't yet looked in detail at the 
experimental work that has been done by Gary in that area yet, but that 
too is going on my todo list. In general though I really like the idea 
of having a Python based OpenSource issue tracker that is somewhat 
comparable in terms of practical utility to the likes of the more 
commercial tools. By that I mean multi-project, support workflows, and 
basic Agile features such as a backlog and Kanban board style view.


So here is a starter for 10 suggested priority list (fully expecting 
comments / disagreements but that's the point)


1. Get a live list of issues we can all get around, somehow, somewhere. 
Current best suggestion (which I agree with) use GitHub issues.


2. Switch from Subversion to Git as primary source control.

3. Resurrect live.bloodhound.apache.bloodhound.org if possible with the 
current version of Bloodhound.


4. Make a plan to get back off GitHub issues again.

5. Get consensus on the future development roadmap. (Possible features 
suggestion - 'Make it easy to import issues from Github Issues!')


What do you think?

*Daniel Brownridge*
dan...@freshnewpage.com
+44 779 138 5626

On 20/08/2023 13:59, Nikolay Tsanov wrote:

@Greg Stein  , thank you for the timely and commendably
thorough response. As far as the development part of the community is
concerned, to top priority concern that should be dealt with is, as you
defined it:
"- if we want to evolve this, then I'd suggest making svn read-only and
carrying forward with a git-based codebase"

The choice of a version control system goes far beyond the tech stack, it
defines the governance at the technology layer of the Bloodhound
architecture and, simply put, a non-Git version control system is a
roadblock (I am in the same boat as Daniel Brownridge who wrote on Aug 18,
2023, 7:56 AM (2 days ago) “I’ve struggled a bit to get started. I found
the Apache initiation  rituals 

Re: Apache Bloodhound will be moving to the Attic

[Nikolay Tsanov]

@Greg Stein  , thank you for the timely and commendably
thorough response. As far as the development part of the community is
concerned, to top priority concern that should be dealt with is, as you
defined it:
"- if we want to evolve this, then I'd suggest making svn read-only and
carrying forward with a git-based codebase"

The choice of a version control system goes far beyond the tech stack, it
defines the governance at the technology layer of the Bloodhound
architecture and, simply put, a non-Git version control system is a
roadblock (I am in the same boat as Daniel Brownridge who wrote on Aug 18,
2023, 7:56 AM (2 days ago) “I’ve struggled a bit to get started. I found
the Apache initiation  rituals a bit challenging.").

In personal capacity, I must regretfully let you know that I will not
invest any time until this essential technology architecture concern (Git
vs SVN) is formally addressed, e.g. we start using GitHub for code review
and issues tracking. I know that it might sound demoralizing that an issues
tracking system as Bloodhound is not eating its own dogfood and it is using
a third party as GitHub for tracking its own issues, however this is what
we need in order to get traction.

Thanks,
Nikolay Tsanov
+1-819-635-7198

On Sat, Aug 19, 2023 at 10:58 PM Greg Stein  wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 6:08 AM Nikolay Tsanov  wrote:
>
>> Hi Greg,
>>
>> Two questions:
>> 1. Is the verdict to send Bloodhound to the attic already rendered and
>> you are simply letting us know about it, or there is still room for
>> discussions?
>> 2. If the debate is still open, how many commits are required per what
>> period of time in order to keep Bloodhound off the attic?
>>
>
> I'm just relating my experience with "how things work", given my extensive
> time with the ASF. I've been to over 200 Board meetings, and unfortunately
> missed the meeting a few days ago where Bloodhound was discussed (I'm
> traveling right now; which speaks to Shane's point about "give people time;
> 24h is not enough")
>
> Moving is not a given, as Shane noted later in this thread. The Board
> simply needs to see a community, and if that is present, then it will defer
> to those people (it is squishy; there are no "commit metrics"; it's about
> people). For all intents and purposes, there isn't an Apache Bloodhound
> community right now.
>
> ... but given the responses, is there enough? Of course. It only takes a
> few.
>
> So far, Daniel, yourself (Nikolay), and Sz have spoken up to throw in some
> time to see if we have enough energy to (re)launch Apache Bloodhound.
>
> Let me collect a few queries into this single email...
>
> * the (archival) repository is in svn, and mirrored to github.
>   - if we want to evolve this, then I'd suggest making svn read-only and
> carrying forward with a git-based codebase
> * the "experimental" repository is at:
> https://github.com/apache/bloodhound-core and
> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf/bloodhound-core.git
>   - the above is Gary's initial work towards a v2 vision/prototype
>   - there is no community consensus on future direction, so far;
> individual exploration and input is needed
> * "jettison burden" means it won't be Apache Bloodhound
>   - personally, I welcome the legal umbrella/shield of the ASF, so I'm
> happy that I signed an ICLA (which is not a burden, IMO)
>
> I think the biggest issue is in the middle there: where is Bloodhound
> headed? Evolve the existing branch? Strike out on something new, like Gary
> was exploring (a Django-based solution), or something else? Personally, I'd
> like to see a Quart-based app server using a sqlite database. Keep it super
> simple and easy to set up.
>
> Regarding the repository: file some PRs. Or maybe we can use the GitHub
> wiki to figure out a roadmap. "commit" is several steps down the road, and
> sure: we can easily make that happen. But even if everybody had commit
> tomorrow, we don't have a consensus vision yet.
>
> Cheers,
> -g
>
> ps. note that I also hold a role in Infra; I can directly/immediately make
> changes to support the community.
>
>

Re: Apache Bloodhound will be moving to the Attic

[Greg Stein]

On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 6:08 AM Nikolay Tsanov  wrote:

> Hi Greg,
>
> Two questions:
> 1. Is the verdict to send Bloodhound to the attic already rendered and you
> are simply letting us know about it, or there is still room for discussions?
> 2. If the debate is still open, how many commits are required per what
> period of time in order to keep Bloodhound off the attic?
>

I'm just relating my experience with "how things work", given my extensive
time with the ASF. I've been to over 200 Board meetings, and unfortunately
missed the meeting a few days ago where Bloodhound was discussed (I'm
traveling right now; which speaks to Shane's point about "give people time;
24h is not enough")

Moving is not a given, as Shane noted later in this thread. The Board
simply needs to see a community, and if that is present, then it will defer
to those people (it is squishy; there are no "commit metrics"; it's about
people). For all intents and purposes, there isn't an Apache Bloodhound
community right now.

... but given the responses, is there enough? Of course. It only takes a
few.

So far, Daniel, yourself (Nikolay), and Sz have spoken up to throw in some
time to see if we have enough energy to (re)launch Apache Bloodhound.

Let me collect a few queries into this single email...

* the (archival) repository is in svn, and mirrored to github.
  - if we want to evolve this, then I'd suggest making svn read-only and
carrying forward with a git-based codebase
* the "experimental" repository is at:
https://github.com/apache/bloodhound-core and
https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf/bloodhound-core.git
  - the above is Gary's initial work towards a v2 vision/prototype
  - there is no community consensus on future direction, so far; individual
exploration and input is needed
* "jettison burden" means it won't be Apache Bloodhound
  - personally, I welcome the legal umbrella/shield of the ASF, so I'm
happy that I signed an ICLA (which is not a burden, IMO)

I think the biggest issue is in the middle there: where is Bloodhound
headed? Evolve the existing branch? Strike out on something new, like Gary
was exploring (a Django-based solution), or something else? Personally, I'd
like to see a Quart-based app server using a sqlite database. Keep it super
simple and easy to set up.

Regarding the repository: file some PRs. Or maybe we can use the GitHub
wiki to figure out a roadmap. "commit" is several steps down the road, and
sure: we can easily make that happen. But even if everybody had commit
tomorrow, we don't have a consensus vision yet.

Cheers,
-g

ps. note that I also hold a role in Infra; I can directly/immediately make
changes to support the community.

RE: Re: Apache Bloodhound will be moving to the Attic

[Shane Curcuru]

I'll try to provide as much context as I can, since it seems there are 
some folks interested in joining Apache Bloodhound!


On 2023/08/19 13:22:15 Nikolay Tsanov wrote:

Dear Greg and Shane (and everyone else who could weigh in),

I would like to kindly reiterate my question of Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at
9:29 AM ET: can we make GitHub (https://github.com/apache/bloodhound) our
main development repository and if so, what are your expectations in terms
of number of pull requests per period of time so that Bloodhound stays off
the attic?


First: we're all volunteers, so please be patient and wait for replies. 
Also, no Board decisions would be made until the next 20-September 
meeting at the earliest.  If we can show there's interest and some plan 
from existing PMC members to revive the project, then the board would 
defer any decision until the October meeting.


--> The critical path now is finding some existing PMC members or 
committers to help folks speaking up now organize the effort to onboard 
new volunteers, or otherwise help plan how to revive the project here at 
the ASF.  I've directly included Gary Martin to see if he has ideas.


- ASF projects require oversight by at least three PMC members.  That 
matches the user expectation that any top level project is actively 
managed and could fix urgent security bugs in the future, for example. 
The board doesn't need those three members to be doing active 
development, just to be present enough for critical bugs.  Ensuring all 
Apache projects can provide oversight is important, read on:


  https://apache.org/dev/pmc.html#move-to-attic

- In terms of using GitHub as a primary repo, that's fine as long as 
some existing PMC members can help do the work to change the settings. 
Plenty of ASF projects use GitHub workflows.  The requirement is that 
the ASF also have a fully independent mirror on our own services (in 
case GitHub goes down/goes away someday).  Since the live-bloodhound 
server appears to be down, I dunno how the repos here work personally.


- We can't just add people here as committers.  We need some existing 
folk(s) who understand Bloodhound to help guide new folks.  If there are 
specific changes people want to see, please submit Issues or PRs.


- Users are welcome to fork any ASF code.  However you cannot fork the 
name or branding, since those are trademarks of the ASF as a whole.


- Moving to the Attic merely means that all existing resources will be 
turned read-only.  Folks can still use past releases, access the 
website, code repos, mailing lists, etc. just not change them in place.


Does that make sense?

Note I am not subscribed to this list, so please cc: me directly if you 
need my help.


--
- Shane
  Director
  The Apache Software Foundation

Re: Apache Bloodhound will be moving to the Attic

[Nikolay Tsanov]

Dear Greg and Shane (and everyone else who could weigh in),

I would like to kindly reiterate my question of Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at
9:29 AM ET: can we make GitHub (https://github.com/apache/bloodhound) our
main development repository and if so, what are your expectations in terms
of number of pull requests per period of time so that Bloodhound stays off
the attic?

Thanks,
Nikolay Tsanov
+1-819-635-7198

On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 1:09 PM Nikolay Tsanov  wrote:

> Hi Gregg and Shane,
>
> I share the concern expressed by by dan...@freshnewpage.com and I second
> the suggestion made by s...@szasz.hu : can we make GitHub our main
> development repository?
>
> Thanks,
> Nikolay Tsanov
> +1-819-635-7198
>
> On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 9:29 AM Szabolcs Szasz  wrote:
>
>> Couldn't just the mirror on GitHub become the official dev hub, while
>> jettisoning all the other (admin, hosting etc.) burden?
>>
>> Sz.
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 18, 2023, 13:56 Daniel Brownridge <
>> daniel.brownri...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > I have previously expressed interest in helping with the project.
>> >
>> > I've struggled a bit to get started. I found the Apache initiation
>> > rituals a bit challenging.
>> >
>> > If someone could help me out with that and give me access to the repos
>> > I'd like to be involved.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Daniel
>> >
>> > *Daniel Brownridge*
>> > dan...@freshnewpage.com
>> > +44 779 138 5626
>> >
>> > On 18/08/2023 12:08, Nikolay Tsanov wrote:
>> > > Hi Greg,
>> > >
>> > > Two questions:
>> > > 1. Is the verdict to send Bloodhound to the attic already rendered and
>> > you
>> > > are simply letting us know about it, or there is still room for
>> > discussions?
>> > > 2. If the debate is still open, how many commits are required per what
>> > > period of time in order to keep Bloodhound off the attic?
>> > >
>> > > Thanks,
>> > > Nikolay Tsanov
>> > > +1-819-635-7198
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 6:02 PM Greg Stein  wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> There has been near-zero commit activity for many years. The mailing
>> > list
>> > >> is empty. There are a few people "around", but inactive.
>> > >>
>> > >> Note that a move to the Attic will not cause any problems with the
>> 0.8
>> > >> release. That will always be available for download. The Attic is
>> > simply a
>> > >> marker that future development will not occur.
>> > >>
>> > >> Cheers,
>> > >> -g
>> > >> Member of the Bloodhound PMC
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 4:57 PM Nikolay Tsanov
>> > wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>> Hi Shane,
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Could you please elaborate on the material metrics for "real
>> engagement
>> > >>> and
>> > >>> energy" that would rescue Bloodhound from the attic? I have been
>> using
>> > >>> version 0.8 for my personal needs since 2015 and the lack of active
>> > >>> contributions on my end is, among other reasons, due to the fact
>> that
>> > it
>> > >>> still 'works for me".
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Thanks,
>> > >>> Nikolay
>> > >>> +1-819-635-7198
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Le jeu. 17 août 2023, 08 h 09, Shane Curcuru
>> a
>> > >>> écrit :
>> > >>>
>> >  While we very much appreciate the several attempts to bring new
>> life
>> >  back to Bloodhound, it feels like it's time to celebrate the
>> project
>> > and
>> >  send it off to the Apache Attic.  This is only fair to potential
>> > users,
>> >  to let them know we don't have a fully active community here.
>> > 
>> >  UNLESS the Board sees real engagement and energy from at least
>> three
>> >  developers here on Bloodhound in the next couple of weeks, the
>> Board
>> >  will be voting at our September meeting to place Bloodhound into
>> the
>> >  Apache Attic.  All resources will be preserved as-is, but read
>> only.
>> > 
>> >  https://attic.apache.org/
>> > 
>> >  I know Gary and others have really tried, but for an active Apache
>> >  project we need three regular PMC members to provide oversight.
>> > 
>> >  Thanks for all the work over the years,
>> > 
>> >  --
>> >  - Shane
>> >  Director
>> >  The Apache Software Foundation
>> > 
>> > 
>>
>

Re: Apache Bloodhound will be moving to the Attic

[Nikolay Tsanov]

Hi Gregg and Shane,

I share the concern expressed by by dan...@freshnewpage.com and I second
the suggestion made by s...@szasz.hu : can we make GitHub our main
development repository?

Thanks,
Nikolay Tsanov
+1-819-635-7198

On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 9:29 AM Szabolcs Szasz  wrote:

> Couldn't just the mirror on GitHub become the official dev hub, while
> jettisoning all the other (admin, hosting etc.) burden?
>
> Sz.
>
> On Fri, Aug 18, 2023, 13:56 Daniel Brownridge  >
> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I have previously expressed interest in helping with the project.
> >
> > I've struggled a bit to get started. I found the Apache initiation
> > rituals a bit challenging.
> >
> > If someone could help me out with that and give me access to the repos
> > I'd like to be involved.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Daniel
> >
> > *Daniel Brownridge*
> > dan...@freshnewpage.com
> > +44 779 138 5626
> >
> > On 18/08/2023 12:08, Nikolay Tsanov wrote:
> > > Hi Greg,
> > >
> > > Two questions:
> > > 1. Is the verdict to send Bloodhound to the attic already rendered and
> > you
> > > are simply letting us know about it, or there is still room for
> > discussions?
> > > 2. If the debate is still open, how many commits are required per what
> > > period of time in order to keep Bloodhound off the attic?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Nikolay Tsanov
> > > +1-819-635-7198
> > >
> > > On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 6:02 PM Greg Stein  wrote:
> > >
> > >> There has been near-zero commit activity for many years. The mailing
> > list
> > >> is empty. There are a few people "around", but inactive.
> > >>
> > >> Note that a move to the Attic will not cause any problems with the 0.8
> > >> release. That will always be available for download. The Attic is
> > simply a
> > >> marker that future development will not occur.
> > >>
> > >> Cheers,
> > >> -g
> > >> Member of the Bloodhound PMC
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 4:57 PM Nikolay Tsanov
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hi Shane,
> > >>>
> > >>> Could you please elaborate on the material metrics for "real
> engagement
> > >>> and
> > >>> energy" that would rescue Bloodhound from the attic? I have been
> using
> > >>> version 0.8 for my personal needs since 2015 and the lack of active
> > >>> contributions on my end is, among other reasons, due to the fact that
> > it
> > >>> still 'works for me".
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks,
> > >>> Nikolay
> > >>> +1-819-635-7198
> > >>>
> > >>> Le jeu. 17 août 2023, 08 h 09, Shane Curcuru
> a
> > >>> écrit :
> > >>>
> >  While we very much appreciate the several attempts to bring new life
> >  back to Bloodhound, it feels like it's time to celebrate the project
> > and
> >  send it off to the Apache Attic.  This is only fair to potential
> > users,
> >  to let them know we don't have a fully active community here.
> > 
> >  UNLESS the Board sees real engagement and energy from at least three
> >  developers here on Bloodhound in the next couple of weeks, the Board
> >  will be voting at our September meeting to place Bloodhound into the
> >  Apache Attic.  All resources will be preserved as-is, but read only.
> > 
> >  https://attic.apache.org/
> > 
> >  I know Gary and others have really tried, but for an active Apache
> >  project we need three regular PMC members to provide oversight.
> > 
> >  Thanks for all the work over the years,
> > 
> >  --
> >  - Shane
> >  Director
> >  The Apache Software Foundation
> > 
> > 
>

Re: Apache Bloodhound will be moving to the Attic

[Daniel Brownridge]

That would certainly work for me!

On Fri, 18 Aug 2023, 14:37 Szabolcs Szasz,  wrote:

> Couldn't just the mirror on GitHub become the official dev hub, while
> jettisoning all the other (admin, hosting etc.) burden?
>
> Sz.
>
> On Fri, Aug 18, 2023, 13:56 Daniel Brownridge  >
> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I have previously expressed interest in helping with the project.
> >
> > I've struggled a bit to get started. I found the Apache initiation
> > rituals a bit challenging.
> >
> > If someone could help me out with that and give me access to the repos
> > I'd like to be involved.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Daniel
> >
> > *Daniel Brownridge*
> > dan...@freshnewpage.com
> > +44 779 138 5626
> >
> > On 18/08/2023 12:08, Nikolay Tsanov wrote:
> > > Hi Greg,
> > >
> > > Two questions:
> > > 1. Is the verdict to send Bloodhound to the attic already rendered and
> > you
> > > are simply letting us know about it, or there is still room for
> > discussions?
> > > 2. If the debate is still open, how many commits are required per what
> > > period of time in order to keep Bloodhound off the attic?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Nikolay Tsanov
> > > +1-819-635-7198
> > >
> > > On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 6:02 PM Greg Stein  wrote:
> > >
> > >> There has been near-zero commit activity for many years. The mailing
> > list
> > >> is empty. There are a few people "around", but inactive.
> > >>
> > >> Note that a move to the Attic will not cause any problems with the 0.8
> > >> release. That will always be available for download. The Attic is
> > simply a
> > >> marker that future development will not occur.
> > >>
> > >> Cheers,
> > >> -g
> > >> Member of the Bloodhound PMC
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 4:57 PM Nikolay Tsanov
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hi Shane,
> > >>>
> > >>> Could you please elaborate on the material metrics for "real
> engagement
> > >>> and
> > >>> energy" that would rescue Bloodhound from the attic? I have been
> using
> > >>> version 0.8 for my personal needs since 2015 and the lack of active
> > >>> contributions on my end is, among other reasons, due to the fact that
> > it
> > >>> still 'works for me".
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks,
> > >>> Nikolay
> > >>> +1-819-635-7198
> > >>>
> > >>> Le jeu. 17 août 2023, 08 h 09, Shane Curcuru
> a
> > >>> écrit :
> > >>>
> >  While we very much appreciate the several attempts to bring new life
> >  back to Bloodhound, it feels like it's time to celebrate the project
> > and
> >  send it off to the Apache Attic.  This is only fair to potential
> > users,
> >  to let them know we don't have a fully active community here.
> > 
> >  UNLESS the Board sees real engagement and energy from at least three
> >  developers here on Bloodhound in the next couple of weeks, the Board
> >  will be voting at our September meeting to place Bloodhound into the
> >  Apache Attic.  All resources will be preserved as-is, but read only.
> > 
> >  https://attic.apache.org/
> > 
> >  I know Gary and others have really tried, but for an active Apache
> >  project we need three regular PMC members to provide oversight.
> > 
> >  Thanks for all the work over the years,
> > 
> >  --
> >  - Shane
> >  Director
> >  The Apache Software Foundation
> > 
> > 
>

Re: Apache Bloodhound will be moving to the Attic

[Szabolcs Szasz]

Couldn't just the mirror on GitHub become the official dev hub, while
jettisoning all the other (admin, hosting etc.) burden?

Sz.

On Fri, Aug 18, 2023, 13:56 Daniel Brownridge 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I have previously expressed interest in helping with the project.
>
> I've struggled a bit to get started. I found the Apache initiation
> rituals a bit challenging.
>
> If someone could help me out with that and give me access to the repos
> I'd like to be involved.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Daniel
>
> *Daniel Brownridge*
> dan...@freshnewpage.com
> +44 779 138 5626
>
> On 18/08/2023 12:08, Nikolay Tsanov wrote:
> > Hi Greg,
> >
> > Two questions:
> > 1. Is the verdict to send Bloodhound to the attic already rendered and
> you
> > are simply letting us know about it, or there is still room for
> discussions?
> > 2. If the debate is still open, how many commits are required per what
> > period of time in order to keep Bloodhound off the attic?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Nikolay Tsanov
> > +1-819-635-7198
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 6:02 PM Greg Stein  wrote:
> >
> >> There has been near-zero commit activity for many years. The mailing
> list
> >> is empty. There are a few people "around", but inactive.
> >>
> >> Note that a move to the Attic will not cause any problems with the 0.8
> >> release. That will always be available for download. The Attic is
> simply a
> >> marker that future development will not occur.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> -g
> >> Member of the Bloodhound PMC
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 4:57 PM Nikolay Tsanov
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Shane,
> >>>
> >>> Could you please elaborate on the material metrics for "real engagement
> >>> and
> >>> energy" that would rescue Bloodhound from the attic? I have been using
> >>> version 0.8 for my personal needs since 2015 and the lack of active
> >>> contributions on my end is, among other reasons, due to the fact that
> it
> >>> still 'works for me".
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Nikolay
> >>> +1-819-635-7198
> >>>
> >>> Le jeu. 17 août 2023, 08 h 09, Shane Curcuru  a
> >>> écrit :
> >>>
>  While we very much appreciate the several attempts to bring new life
>  back to Bloodhound, it feels like it's time to celebrate the project
> and
>  send it off to the Apache Attic.  This is only fair to potential
> users,
>  to let them know we don't have a fully active community here.
> 
>  UNLESS the Board sees real engagement and energy from at least three
>  developers here on Bloodhound in the next couple of weeks, the Board
>  will be voting at our September meeting to place Bloodhound into the
>  Apache Attic.  All resources will be preserved as-is, but read only.
> 
>  https://attic.apache.org/
> 
>  I know Gary and others have really tried, but for an active Apache
>  project we need three regular PMC members to provide oversight.
> 
>  Thanks for all the work over the years,
> 
>  --
>  - Shane
>  Director
>  The Apache Software Foundation
> 
> 

Re: Apache Bloodhound will be moving to the Attic

[Daniel Brownridge]

Hi all,

I have previously expressed interest in helping with the project.

I've struggled a bit to get started. I found the Apache initiation 
rituals a bit challenging.


If someone could help me out with that and give me access to the repos 
I'd like to be involved.


Thanks,

Daniel

*Daniel Brownridge*
dan...@freshnewpage.com
+44 779 138 5626

On 18/08/2023 12:08, Nikolay Tsanov wrote:

Hi Greg,

Two questions:
1. Is the verdict to send Bloodhound to the attic already rendered and you
are simply letting us know about it, or there is still room for discussions?
2. If the debate is still open, how many commits are required per what
period of time in order to keep Bloodhound off the attic?

Thanks,
Nikolay Tsanov
+1-819-635-7198

On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 6:02 PM Greg Stein  wrote:


There has been near-zero commit activity for many years. The mailing list
is empty. There are a few people "around", but inactive.

Note that a move to the Attic will not cause any problems with the 0.8
release. That will always be available for download. The Attic is simply a
marker that future development will not occur.

Cheers,
-g
Member of the Bloodhound PMC


On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 4:57 PM Nikolay Tsanov  wrote:


Hi Shane,

Could you please elaborate on the material metrics for "real engagement
and
energy" that would rescue Bloodhound from the attic? I have been using
version 0.8 for my personal needs since 2015 and the lack of active
contributions on my end is, among other reasons, due to the fact that it
still 'works for me".

Thanks,
Nikolay
+1-819-635-7198

Le jeu. 17 août 2023, 08 h 09, Shane Curcuru  a
écrit :


While we very much appreciate the several attempts to bring new life
back to Bloodhound, it feels like it's time to celebrate the project and
send it off to the Apache Attic.  This is only fair to potential users,
to let them know we don't have a fully active community here.

UNLESS the Board sees real engagement and energy from at least three
developers here on Bloodhound in the next couple of weeks, the Board
will be voting at our September meeting to place Bloodhound into the
Apache Attic.  All resources will be preserved as-is, but read only.

https://attic.apache.org/

I know Gary and others have really tried, but for an active Apache
project we need three regular PMC members to provide oversight.

Thanks for all the work over the years,

--
- Shane
Director
The Apache Software Foundation

Re: Apache Bloodhound will be moving to the Attic

[Nikolay Tsanov]

Hi Greg,

Two questions:
1. Is the verdict to send Bloodhound to the attic already rendered and you
are simply letting us know about it, or there is still room for discussions?
2. If the debate is still open, how many commits are required per what
period of time in order to keep Bloodhound off the attic?

Thanks,
Nikolay Tsanov
+1-819-635-7198

On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 6:02 PM Greg Stein  wrote:

> There has been near-zero commit activity for many years. The mailing list
> is empty. There are a few people "around", but inactive.
>
> Note that a move to the Attic will not cause any problems with the 0.8
> release. That will always be available for download. The Attic is simply a
> marker that future development will not occur.
>
> Cheers,
> -g
> Member of the Bloodhound PMC
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 4:57 PM Nikolay Tsanov  wrote:
>
>> Hi Shane,
>>
>> Could you please elaborate on the material metrics for "real engagement
>> and
>> energy" that would rescue Bloodhound from the attic? I have been using
>> version 0.8 for my personal needs since 2015 and the lack of active
>> contributions on my end is, among other reasons, due to the fact that it
>> still 'works for me".
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Nikolay
>> +1-819-635-7198
>>
>> Le jeu. 17 août 2023, 08 h 09, Shane Curcuru  a
>> écrit :
>>
>> > While we very much appreciate the several attempts to bring new life
>> > back to Bloodhound, it feels like it's time to celebrate the project and
>> > send it off to the Apache Attic.  This is only fair to potential users,
>> > to let them know we don't have a fully active community here.
>> >
>> > UNLESS the Board sees real engagement and energy from at least three
>> > developers here on Bloodhound in the next couple of weeks, the Board
>> > will be voting at our September meeting to place Bloodhound into the
>> > Apache Attic.  All resources will be preserved as-is, but read only.
>> >
>> >https://attic.apache.org/
>> >
>> > I know Gary and others have really tried, but for an active Apache
>> > project we need three regular PMC members to provide oversight.
>> >
>> > Thanks for all the work over the years,
>> >
>> > --
>> > - Shane
>> >Director
>> >The Apache Software Foundation
>> >
>> >
>>
>

Re: Apache Bloodhound will be moving to the Attic

[Greg Stein]

There has been near-zero commit activity for many years. The mailing list
is empty. There are a few people "around", but inactive.

Note that a move to the Attic will not cause any problems with the 0.8
release. That will always be available for download. The Attic is simply a
marker that future development will not occur.

Cheers,
-g
Member of the Bloodhound PMC


On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 4:57 PM Nikolay Tsanov  wrote:

> Hi Shane,
>
> Could you please elaborate on the material metrics for "real engagement and
> energy" that would rescue Bloodhound from the attic? I have been using
> version 0.8 for my personal needs since 2015 and the lack of active
> contributions on my end is, among other reasons, due to the fact that it
> still 'works for me".
>
> Thanks,
> Nikolay
> +1-819-635-7198
>
> Le jeu. 17 août 2023, 08 h 09, Shane Curcuru  a
> écrit :
>
> > While we very much appreciate the several attempts to bring new life
> > back to Bloodhound, it feels like it's time to celebrate the project and
> > send it off to the Apache Attic.  This is only fair to potential users,
> > to let them know we don't have a fully active community here.
> >
> > UNLESS the Board sees real engagement and energy from at least three
> > developers here on Bloodhound in the next couple of weeks, the Board
> > will be voting at our September meeting to place Bloodhound into the
> > Apache Attic.  All resources will be preserved as-is, but read only.
> >
> >https://attic.apache.org/
> >
> > I know Gary and others have really tried, but for an active Apache
> > project we need three regular PMC members to provide oversight.
> >
> > Thanks for all the work over the years,
> >
> > --
> > - Shane
> >Director
> >The Apache Software Foundation
> >
> >
>

Re: Apache Bloodhound will be moving to the Attic

[Nikolay Tsanov]

Hi Shane,

Could you please elaborate on the material metrics for "real engagement and
energy" that would rescue Bloodhound from the attic? I have been using
version 0.8 for my personal needs since 2015 and the lack of active
contributions on my end is, among other reasons, due to the fact that it
still 'works for me".

Thanks,
Nikolay
+1-819-635-7198

Le jeu. 17 août 2023, 08 h 09, Shane Curcuru  a
écrit :

> While we very much appreciate the several attempts to bring new life
> back to Bloodhound, it feels like it's time to celebrate the project and
> send it off to the Apache Attic.  This is only fair to potential users,
> to let them know we don't have a fully active community here.
>
> UNLESS the Board sees real engagement and energy from at least three
> developers here on Bloodhound in the next couple of weeks, the Board
> will be voting at our September meeting to place Bloodhound into the
> Apache Attic.  All resources will be preserved as-is, but read only.
>
>https://attic.apache.org/
>
> I know Gary and others have really tried, but for an active Apache
> project we need three regular PMC members to provide oversight.
>
> Thanks for all the work over the years,
>
> --
> - Shane
>Director
>The Apache Software Foundation
>
>