Re: [Docs] Articles on Cocoon - reminder
Le 29 nov. 05, à 11:28, hepabolu a écrit : ...1. Introductory article. - what is Cocoon - purpose of the series Bertrand, could you write this one? Maybe refer to your bricks app to explain some Cocoon terminology like pipelines etc. I could chip in for the purpose part... Sounds good, I should be able to do that for mid-January. ...Please let me know if you are willing to write the article and have it done by mid January. I'll see if I can get them published on xml.com when they start coming in... I don't know if any magazine will commit to publishing a series of articles without being familiar with most of us as writers. So maybe it would be good to contact them early, and see what they think, in order to put our efforts where it's most needed? Like Gianugo, I think we must keep the articles private if they're meant to be published by an online magazine, but OTOH it's good to have some form of community review. Maybe we could use the private committer's SVN area to coordinate and review stuff once we start writing, not to hide it from our public community but to respect the (assumed) magazine's desire for keeping things private before publication. Having a series of articles written by members of the Cocoon community sounds way cool, thanks for your reminder! -Bertrand smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: [Docs] Articles on Cocoon - reminder
Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
Maybe we could use the private committer's SVN area to coordinate and
review stuff once we start writing, not to hide it from our public
community but to respect the (assumed) magazine's desire for keeping
things private before publication.
Other suggestion, use Daisy: Create a separate cocoon-articles site and
collection add a rule that only doc-committers can read/write them.
--
Reinhard Pötz Independent Consultant, Trainer (IT)-Coach
{Software Engineering, Open Source, Web Applications, Apache Cocoon}
web(log): http://www.poetz.cc
Re: [Docs] Articles on Cocoon - reminder
Reinhard Poetz wrote: Bertrand Delacretaz wrote: Maybe we could use the private committer's SVN area to coordinate and review stuff once we start writing, not to hide it from our public community but to respect the (assumed) magazine's desire for keeping things private before publication. Other suggestion, use Daisy: Create a separate cocoon-articles site and collection add a rule that only doc-committers can read/write them. This sounds good. I think it's a good idea to do a community review and I have already thought about how to keep the articles hidden, but failed to come up with something useful. I just wonder if it is possible to keep the site invisible, i.e. it is only available through a URL, not through any link on the Daisy site. Just to avoid any questions and hack attempts (I know security by obscurity). Bye, Helma
Re: [Docs] Articles on Cocoon - reminder
hepabolu wrote: Reinhard Poetz wrote: Bertrand Delacretaz wrote: Maybe we could use the private committer's SVN area to coordinate and review stuff once we start writing, not to hide it from our public community but to respect the (assumed) magazine's desire for keeping things private before publication. Other suggestion, use Daisy: Create a separate cocoon-articles site and collection add a rule that only doc-committers can read/write them. This sounds good. I think it's a good idea to do a community review and I have already thought about how to keep the articles hidden, but failed to come up with something useful. I just wonder if it is possible to keep the site invisible, i.e. it is only available through a URL, not through any link on the Daisy site. Just to avoid any questions and hack attempts (I know security by obscurity). When a user arrives at the Daisy site they can only see the sites they have the rights to access. So if you add a rule saying onlyy doc-committers can see the site it will be hiddenf rom everyone else. Ross
Re: [Docs] Articles on Cocoon - reminder
Ross Gardler wrote: I just wonder if it is possible to keep the site invisible, i.e. it is only available through a URL, not through any link on the Daisy site. Just to avoid any questions and hack attempts (I know security by obscurity). When a user arrives at the Daisy site they can only see the sites they have the rights to access. So if you add a rule saying onlyy doc-committers can see the site it will be hiddenf rom everyone else. Right, that's settled then. Bye, Helma
Re: [Docs] Articles on Cocoon - reminder
Helma, thanks for keeping the ball rolling. I'm still willing to help out and do my part of the work, that is: - Cocoon and enterprise application integration by Gianugo - Cocoon as service integration platform (suggested by Stefano), by Massimo, Matthew and Gianugo. I'm not sure how much overlap there is between this and the previous one. A huge overlap, actually it's the same thing, basically. :-) - Cocoon success stories, award winning sites, by ??? Here, I've done already a couple years ago a presentation at the Cocoon GT: having companies available to be quoted in print is definitely a different thing, but I'm willing to give it a try. Just: Please let me know if you are willing to write the article and have it done by mid January. If I have two articles to write, I can't really commit to mid January: I will have to process them serially, which means - I guess - one more month to go. Let me know if that sounds good to you. I'll see if I can get them published on xml.com when they start coming in. I have no particular experience in having such stuff published, but I kinda feel that the most prominent websites are unwilling to just re-publish stuff that is part of something else as well. That means, basically, that such articles, if published on, say, xml.com, will have to remain there and just there. I might of course be wrong, but I don't think publishers will like us to include that material in the official Cocoon documentation (well, links are fine of course). Ciao, -- Gianugo Rabellino Pro-netics s.r.l. - http://www.pro-netics.com Orixo, the XML business alliance: http://www.orixo.com (blogging at http://www.rabellino.it/blog/)
RE: [Docs] Articles on Cocoon
- Cocoon and CMS by Steven, focus on the role/advantages of Cocoon in Daisy Darn, Steven, you got me there. I'd be happy to write a piece about knowledge sharing in intranets or on the web. Generating relationships, using team folders, finding articles, using thesauri and taxonomies, etc. Practical stuff that really adds value, no fuzzy knowledge management buzz. Also not about Wiki's (I'll leave that one to Steven ;) ). WDYT?
Re: [Docs] Articles on Cocoon
Arje Cahn wrote: - Cocoon and CMS by Steven, focus on the role/advantages of Cocoon in Daisy Darn, Steven, you got me there. I'd be happy to write a piece about knowledge sharing in intranets or on the web. Generating relationships, using team folders, finding articles, using thesauri and taxonomies, etc. Practical stuff that really adds value, no fuzzy knowledge management buzz. Also not about Wiki's (I'll leave that one to Steven ;) ). WDYT? I welcome any article that gives Cocoon more exposure. First, I'm not sure what Steven had in mind, but the two of you could figure out who focuses on what and get two articles out of this. Or...thinking out loud... without getting into last years' CMS show down, you could both write about how you solved similar issues in both CMS. Haven't seen Hippo's source ;-) I assume that both of you ran into similar problems and it would be interesting to see how you've solved that, e.g. searching and notification. Just make sure it's not an I can do this better approach. WDYT? Bye, Helma
Re: [Docs] Articles on Cocoon
On 10/11/05, hepabolu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So the article should not be too technical, but give enough information to help the readers in the second group to find more information. Given the target group the articles should not be too long, certainly not more than 5 pages, probably less. So far I've been promised: - Cocoon and large websites by Pier and Ross McDonald, focus on performance issues - Cocoon and security by Ralph, focus on security issues in internet banking - Cocoon and AJAX by Sylvain, focus on how easy it is in Cocoon - Cocoon and performance by Jack Ivers and Vadim, focus on a comparison of XSLT processors - Cocoon and CMS by Steven, focus on the role/advantages of Cocoon in Daisy Requests: - are there more people willing to contribute articles that could fit this series? Would you be interested in some Cocoon and Enterprise Application Integration stuff, with some JBI flavor on top? I could come up with something. Ciao, -- Gianugo Rabellino Pro-netics s.r.l. - http://www.pro-netics.com Orixo, the XML business alliance: http://www.orixo.com (blogging at http://www.rabellino.it/blog/)
Re: [Docs] Articles on Cocoon
Le 11 oct. 05, à 09:42, hepabolu a écrit : ...Requests: - are there more people willing to contribute articles that could fit this series?.. I could write one on Cocoon Bricks, a modern Cocoon example application. (I'm thinking of removing the -cms from the name when bricks moves to the new contrib directory, to lower the confusion about CMSes ;-) -Bertrand
Re: [Docs] Articles on Cocoon
Gianugo Rabellino wrote: Would you be interested in some Cocoon and Enterprise Application Integration stuff, with some JBI flavor on top? I could come up with something. I'm not familiar with any EAI stuff, but it sure seems to be a hot topic, so if you can write about it great, but I'm flying blind on this one. In short: yes please. Thanks. Bye, Helma
Re: [Docs] Articles on Cocoon
Bertrand Delacretaz wrote: I could write one on Cocoon Bricks, a modern Cocoon example application. (I'm thinking of removing the -cms from the name when bricks moves to the new contrib directory, to lower the confusion about CMSes ;-) Hmm, this could be an excellent entry-level article, i.e. focus on newcomers that don't know where to begin. We badly need this kind of article. OTOH My gut feeling tells me this doesn't fit exactly in the general idea of Cocoon can be used to build high roller apps/Cocoon implements the latest hot topics. It's more the Cocoon made easy track and for a track I need more than one article. I certainly want this article, but I need more thinking of how to use it most effectively. Bye, Helma
Re: [Docs] Articles on Cocoon
hepabolu wrote: Bertrand Delacretaz wrote: I could write one on Cocoon Bricks, a modern Cocoon example application. (I'm thinking of removing the -cms from the name when bricks moves to the new contrib directory, to lower the confusion about CMSes ;-) Hmm, this could be an excellent entry-level article, i.e. focus on newcomers that don't know where to begin. We badly need this kind of article. OTOH My gut feeling tells me this doesn't fit exactly in the general idea of Cocoon can be used to build high roller apps/Cocoon implements the latest hot topics. It's more the Cocoon made easy track and for a track I need more than one article. I certainly want this article, but I need more thinking of how to use it most effectively. Bye, Helma All the articles should be published on our website as well as wherever else they can be (i.e. Javaworld, etc.). The bricks article would be very useful on our website even if it isn't published externally. Ralph
Re: [Docs] Articles on Cocoon
On 11 Oct 2005, at 10:22, Arje Cahn wrote: - Cocoon and CMS by Steven, focus on the role/advantages of Cocoon in Daisy Darn, Steven, you got me there. Don't worry: the idea was just to narrate why we're happy to have based part of Daisy on Cocoon. I didn't mean to sell Daisy using the Cocoon-bandwagon, AAMOF most of the time it's the other way around. /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought Open Source Java XML stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org
Re: [Docs] Articles on Cocoon
hepabolu wrote: Hi, this is both a notification and some requests. During the GT I've asked several people in the community to write an article on an aspect of Cocoon. The intention is to get a series of a few articles and have them published in an (online) magazine or other relevant site to promote/expose Cocoon. The intended readers are: - those unfamiliar with Cocoon/those that think Cocoon is only suitable for small, almost static websites. - those that are familiar with Cocoon and run into a similar problem. So the article should not be too technical, but give enough information to help the readers in the second group to find more information. Given the target group the articles should not be too long, certainly not more than 5 pages, probably less. So far I've been promised: - Cocoon and large websites by Pier and Ross McDonald, focus on performance issues - Cocoon and security by Ralph, focus on security issues in internet banking - Cocoon and AJAX by Sylvain, focus on how easy it is in Cocoon - Cocoon and performance by Jack Ivers and Vadim, focus on a comparison of XSLT processors - Cocoon and CMS by Steven, focus on the role/advantages of Cocoon in Daisy Awesome! How about something about Cocoon as a service integration platform? Massimo, Matthew and Gianugo, between the three of you, I'm sure you have something to say. I would like to see the success stories too, like the sites that won awards that are powered by cocoon or the behind-the-scene integrators. Requests: - are there more people willing to contribute articles that could fit this series? I think you should convince our more CTO-ish type of committers that even if they are so overwhelmed and busy these days, it's probably good for their business and cocoon's in general, if we show off a little more what we achieved. More real life case studies and serious stuff can bring a lot of solidity to the question why should I use this stuff? that CTO/CIOs ask. - what would be the most interesting site/magazine to get this series published? I intend to get them up on our documentation site as well, just have to figure out what the most effective publishing schedule is. I think O'Reillynet/xml.com is a good place. O'Reilly has wanted a book on cocoon forever, which I started and dumped, then Steven restarted and dumped (or held), so it didn't happen. Not sure there is enough traction for an entire column on cocoon, but we might well ask, a lot of people in O'Reilly have good respect for Cocoon. -- Stefano.
Re: [Docs] Articles on Cocoon
- what would be the most interesting site/magazine to get this series published? I intend to get them up on our documentation site as well, just have to figure out what the most effective publishing schedule is. I think O'Reillynet/xml.com is a good place. O'Reilly has wanted a book on cocoon forever, which I started and dumped, then Steven restarted and dumped (or held), so it didn't happen. Not sure there is enough traction for an entire column on cocoon, but we might well ask, a lot of people in O'Reilly have good respect for Cocoon. Actually I had this idea a while ago. The Cocoon bible. Written by the people who wrote it. Having a couple more authors to split the huge task. We could even make it an Open Source book. Available as a pdf or in print for the ones who want to hold something in there hands. I would love that... cheers -- Torsten PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [Docs] Articles on Cocoon
On 11 Oct 2005, at 15:06, Torsten Curdt wrote: Actually I had this idea a while ago. The Cocoon bible. Written by the people who wrote it. Having a couple more authors to split the huge task. Uhm. Isn't this what the documentation should be all about? Instead of doing the FOO-jerk, just make sure our documentation is republish-able in a paper format at all times? ORA even has a series for that: http://www.oreilly.com/oreilly/author/ch01.html#series and look for community press. Of course, that's easier said than done. But I stopped dreaming of finding time to write something when I stopped caring for my name on a cover. /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought Open Source Java XML stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org
Re: [Docs] Articles on Cocoon
Torsten Curdt wrote: - what would be the most interesting site/magazine to get this series published? I intend to get them up on our documentation site as well, just have to figure out what the most effective publishing schedule is. I think O'Reillynet/xml.com is a good place. O'Reilly has wanted a book on cocoon forever, which I started and dumped, then Steven restarted and dumped (or held), so it didn't happen. Not sure there is enough traction for an entire column on cocoon, but we might well ask, a lot of people in O'Reilly have good respect for Cocoon. Actually I had this idea a while ago. The Cocoon bible. Written by the people who wrote it. Having a couple more authors to split the huge task. We could even make it an Open Source book. Available as a pdf or in print for the ones who want to hold something in there hands. I would love that... How about a wikibook? -- Stefano.
RE: [Docs] Articles on Cocoon
I think you should convince our more CTO-ish type of committers that even if they are so overwhelmed and busy these days, it's probably good for their business and cocoon's in general, if we show off a little more what we achieved. More real life case studies and serious stuff can bring a lot of solidity to the question why should I use this stuff? that CTO/CIOs ask. I hear the call. I'll chat to Gianugo/Massimo etc. about what we may be able to write up. Not sure there is enough traction for an entire column on cocoon, but we might well ask, a lot of people in O'Reilly have good respect for Cocoon. I will be at EuroOSCON next week and will see what may be possible to raise the awareness for Cocoon over at O'Reilly. Actually it is a pity no-one submitted a Cocoon talk for that. I will be using Cocoon in my Open Source business session - so at least there will be a little plug at CxO level. Matthew
Re: [Docs] Articles on Cocoon
Torsten Curdt wrote: - what would be the most interesting site/magazine to get this series published? I intend to get them up on our documentation site as well, just have to figure out what the most effective publishing schedule is. I think O'Reillynet/xml.com is a good place. O'Reilly has wanted a book on cocoon forever, which I started and dumped, then Steven restarted and dumped (or held), so it didn't happen. Not sure there is enough traction for an entire column on cocoon, but we might well ask, a lot of people in O'Reilly have good respect for Cocoon. Actually I had this idea a while ago. The Cocoon bible. Written by the people who wrote it. Having a couple more authors to split the huge task. We could even make it an Open Source book. Available as a pdf or in print for the ones who want to hold something in there hands. I would love that... As said, I also think that writing a book is a huge task. I'm sure Carsten and Matthew can give great insight in this. ;-) Hell, my own thesis is proceeding with only a few lines a day, so I know. Let's not jump into illusions. As much as I cannot tell the lot of you to rewrite Cocoon and divide the work among the most active committers, it's impossible to do the same for the documentation. What we CAN try, is what Steven already suggested: get the documentation into a coherent and complete state and use that as a book. This will be a slow and gradual process. For now I want short articles that can appear in magazines, and of course they end up on our website.
Re: [Docs] Articles on Cocoon
Actually I had this idea a while ago. The Cocoon bible. Written by the people who wrote it. Having a couple more authors to split the huge task. Uhm. Isn't this what the documentation should be all about? That's what it should be ...and I think we are making good progress. Sylvain showed me the Cocoon docu in a single pdf. That's great. Maybe we just need to revise it a bit from the print perspective and get people to really commit on writing a chapter on certain topics. I just assume having a few people getting there names onto a cover will help with the commitment ;) Instead of doing the FOO-jerk, just make sure our documentation is republish-able in a paper format at all times? ORA even has a series for that: http://www.oreilly.com/oreilly/ author/ch01.html#series and look for community press. Awesome ...that would be the perfect fit! Of course, that's easier said than done. But I stopped dreaming of finding time to write something when I stopped caring for my name on a cover. Hehe cheers -- Torsten PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [Docs] Articles on Cocoon
On 11 Oct 2005, at 15:33, Matthew Langham wrote: I will be at EuroOSCON next week and will see what may be possible to raise the awareness for Cocoon over at O'Reilly. Actually it is a pity no-one submitted a Cocoon talk for that. I did submit a Daisy one with mentioning of Cocoon. Looks like it did miss out on FOO-karma, it seems. Oh well. /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought Open Source Java XML stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org
Re: [Docs] Articles on Cocoon
Actually I had this idea a while ago. The Cocoon bible. Written by the people who wrote it. Having a couple more authors to split the huge task. We could even make it an Open Source book. Available as a pdf or in print for the ones who want to hold something in there hands. I would love that... How about a wikibook? I think we can already get that from the daisy installation. (Helma?) cheers -- Torsten PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [Docs] Articles on Cocoon
Arje Cahn wrote: I'd be happy to write a piece about knowledge sharing in intranets or on the web. Generating relationships, using team folders, finding articles, using thesauri and taxonomies, etc. Practical stuff that really adds value, no fuzzy knowledge management buzz. Also not about Wiki's (I'll leave that one to Steven ;) ). WDYT? +10 Vadim
