Re: Focused effort on Apache Way education
Inline- Sent from my iPhone On Jul 16, 2019, at 2:43 PM, Dmitriy Pavlov wrote: >> For the purposes of *THIS* discussion, I think that that's a bit of a > sidetrack. > Sure. > > Jim, > Despite the fact that I do not fully understand the problem, I am ready to > volunteer to prepare materials. I don't care if it will be a part of Apache > Training or Apache Com.Dev or slightly another thing. I just like this > topic, which why a year ago I've started asking about it here. > > I know about the excellent slides done by Shane > http://shaneslides.com/apachecon/TheApacheWay-ApacheConNA2018.html#2 > > I also like the idea of explaining not only principles but all principles' > impact. Ideal material for education would explain why ASF can't drop each > component of the Apache Way. I’d like to see the Apache Way described like Euclidean Geometry. What are the postulates? What are the theorems built from these? Regards, Dave > > Sincerely, > Dmitriy Pavlov > > > вт, 16 июл. 2019 г. в 22:46, Rich Bowen : > >> >> >>> On 7/16/19 2:29 PM, Dmitriy Pavlov wrote: >>> Hi Jim, >>> >>> Could you mention events you're referring to? >> >> For the purposes of *THIS* discussion, I think that that's a bit of a >> sidetrack. >> >> Suffice it to say that clearer understanding of the *WHY* around the >> principles of the Apache Way is necessary, in order that the *WHAT* >> doesn't get perceived as meaningless, arbitrary, or dispensible. >> >> >>> >>> In Apache Training (incubating) Justin started to develop content related >>> to the Incubator >>> >> https://github.com/apache/incubator-training/tree/master/content/ApacheWay >> , >>> so we can consider developing a standalone session related to the Apache >>> Way principles. But to understand if training will be helpful I would >> like >>> to know the entire story. >>> >>> You can share it with me directly if you want. >>> >>> Sincerely >>> Dmitriy Pavlov >>> >>> вт, 16 июл. 2019 г. в 20:52, Jim Jagielski : >>> I think that the events of the last several months have clearly shown a lack of awareness, knowledge and (and some level) appreciation >> (adherence) to The Apache Way. It would be useful, I think, if this was a focused effort w/i the foundation. Of course, there is a lot of overlap between ComDev and this effort, and so the questions are how best to address this. Maybe some sort of >> sub-cmmt under ComDev? Or spinning this out ala D (but as a PMC to avoid the problems that cmmt encountered and to engender trust and >> collaboration)? Or basically focus on it w/i ComDev with the structure "as is"... I think having one person "tasked" with herding the cats and coordinating the effort would be useful (and I volunteer to do so), no matter what >> structure we decide. Thoughts? Ideas? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org >>> >> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org >> >> - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: Focused effort on Apache Way education
On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 4:05 PM Jim Jagielski wrote: > > On Jul 16, 2019, at 5:21 PM, Roman Shaposhnik wrote: > > > > On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 10:52 AM Jim Jagielski wrote: > >> > >> I think that the events of the last several months have clearly shown a > >> lack of awareness, knowledge and (and some level) appreciation (adherence) > >> to The Apache Way. It would be useful, I think, if this was a focused > >> effort w/i the foundation. > >> > >> Of course, there is a lot of overlap between ComDev and this effort, and > >> so the questions are how best to address this. Maybe some sort of sub-cmmt > >> under ComDev? Or spinning this out ala D (but as a PMC to avoid the > >> problems that cmmt encountered and to engender trust and collaboration)? > >> Or basically focus on it w/i ComDev with the structure "as is"... I think > >> having one person "tasked" with herding the cats and coordinating the > >> effort would be useful (and I volunteer to do so), no matter what > >> structure we decide. > >> > >> Thoughts? Ideas? > > > > As always with Apache Way (hint-hint ;-)) the trick is to JFDI. So if > > you're passionate about it (the way Gris is passionate about D) why > > don't you just start leading this effort in ComDev? Is there anything > > that's blocking you at this point, Jim? > > > > Because I prefer coordinating w/ people rather than running off half-cocked. > It's basic common courtesy. It how collaboration works. Whatever happened to *rough* consensus and working code^H^H^H^Hcontent ? Thanks, Roman. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: Focused effort on Apache Way education
> On Jul 16, 2019, at 5:21 PM, Roman Shaposhnik wrote: > > On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 10:52 AM Jim Jagielski wrote: >> >> I think that the events of the last several months have clearly shown a lack >> of awareness, knowledge and (and some level) appreciation (adherence) to The >> Apache Way. It would be useful, I think, if this was a focused effort w/i >> the foundation. >> >> Of course, there is a lot of overlap between ComDev and this effort, and so >> the questions are how best to address this. Maybe some sort of sub-cmmt >> under ComDev? Or spinning this out ala D (but as a PMC to avoid the >> problems that cmmt encountered and to engender trust and collaboration)? Or >> basically focus on it w/i ComDev with the structure "as is"... I think >> having one person "tasked" with herding the cats and coordinating the effort >> would be useful (and I volunteer to do so), no matter what structure we >> decide. >> >> Thoughts? Ideas? > > As always with Apache Way (hint-hint ;-)) the trick is to JFDI. So if > you're passionate about it (the way Gris is passionate about D) why > don't you just start leading this effort in ComDev? Is there anything > that's blocking you at this point, Jim? > Because I prefer coordinating w/ people rather than running off half-cocked. It's basic common courtesy. It how collaboration works. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: Focused effort on Apache Way education
> For the purposes of *THIS* discussion, I think that that's a bit of a sidetrack. Sure. Jim, Despite the fact that I do not fully understand the problem, I am ready to volunteer to prepare materials. I don't care if it will be a part of Apache Training or Apache Com.Dev or slightly another thing. I just like this topic, which why a year ago I've started asking about it here. I know about the excellent slides done by Shane http://shaneslides.com/apachecon/TheApacheWay-ApacheConNA2018.html#2 I also like the idea of explaining not only principles but all principles' impact. Ideal material for education would explain why ASF can't drop each component of the Apache Way. Sincerely, Dmitriy Pavlov вт, 16 июл. 2019 г. в 22:46, Rich Bowen : > > > On 7/16/19 2:29 PM, Dmitriy Pavlov wrote: > > Hi Jim, > > > > Could you mention events you're referring to? > > For the purposes of *THIS* discussion, I think that that's a bit of a > sidetrack. > > Suffice it to say that clearer understanding of the *WHY* around the > principles of the Apache Way is necessary, in order that the *WHAT* > doesn't get perceived as meaningless, arbitrary, or dispensible. > > > > > > In Apache Training (incubating) Justin started to develop content related > > to the Incubator > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-training/tree/master/content/ApacheWay > , > > so we can consider developing a standalone session related to the Apache > > Way principles. But to understand if training will be helpful I would > like > > to know the entire story. > > > > You can share it with me directly if you want. > > > > Sincerely > > Dmitriy Pavlov > > > > вт, 16 июл. 2019 г. в 20:52, Jim Jagielski : > > > >> I think that the events of the last several months have clearly shown a > >> lack of awareness, knowledge and (and some level) appreciation > (adherence) > >> to The Apache Way. It would be useful, I think, if this was a focused > >> effort w/i the foundation. > >> > >> Of course, there is a lot of overlap between ComDev and this effort, and > >> so the questions are how best to address this. Maybe some sort of > sub-cmmt > >> under ComDev? Or spinning this out ala D (but as a PMC to avoid the > >> problems that cmmt encountered and to engender trust and > collaboration)? Or > >> basically focus on it w/i ComDev with the structure "as is"... I think > >> having one person "tasked" with herding the cats and coordinating the > >> effort would be useful (and I volunteer to do so), no matter what > structure > >> we decide. > >> > >> Thoughts? Ideas? > >> - > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > >> > >> > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > >
Re: Focused effort on Apache Way education
On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 10:52 AM Jim Jagielski wrote: > > I think that the events of the last several months have clearly shown a lack > of awareness, knowledge and (and some level) appreciation (adherence) to The > Apache Way. It would be useful, I think, if this was a focused effort w/i the > foundation. > > Of course, there is a lot of overlap between ComDev and this effort, and so > the questions are how best to address this. Maybe some sort of sub-cmmt under > ComDev? Or spinning this out ala D (but as a PMC to avoid the problems that > cmmt encountered and to engender trust and collaboration)? Or basically focus > on it w/i ComDev with the structure "as is"... I think having one person > "tasked" with herding the cats and coordinating the effort would be useful > (and I volunteer to do so), no matter what structure we decide. > > Thoughts? Ideas? As always with Apache Way (hint-hint ;-)) the trick is to JFDI. So if you're passionate about it (the way Gris is passionate about D) why don't you just start leading this effort in ComDev? Is there anything that's blocking you at this point, Jim? Thanks, Roman. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: Focused effort on Apache Way education
On 7/16/19 2:29 PM, Dmitriy Pavlov wrote: > Hi Jim, > > Could you mention events you're referring to? For the purposes of *THIS* discussion, I think that that's a bit of a sidetrack. Suffice it to say that clearer understanding of the *WHY* around the principles of the Apache Way is necessary, in order that the *WHAT* doesn't get perceived as meaningless, arbitrary, or dispensible. > > In Apache Training (incubating) Justin started to develop content related > to the Incubator > https://github.com/apache/incubator-training/tree/master/content/ApacheWay , > so we can consider developing a standalone session related to the Apache > Way principles. But to understand if training will be helpful I would like > to know the entire story. > > You can share it with me directly if you want. > > Sincerely > Dmitriy Pavlov > > вт, 16 июл. 2019 г. в 20:52, Jim Jagielski : > >> I think that the events of the last several months have clearly shown a >> lack of awareness, knowledge and (and some level) appreciation (adherence) >> to The Apache Way. It would be useful, I think, if this was a focused >> effort w/i the foundation. >> >> Of course, there is a lot of overlap between ComDev and this effort, and >> so the questions are how best to address this. Maybe some sort of sub-cmmt >> under ComDev? Or spinning this out ala D (but as a PMC to avoid the >> problems that cmmt encountered and to engender trust and collaboration)? Or >> basically focus on it w/i ComDev with the structure "as is"... I think >> having one person "tasked" with herding the cats and coordinating the >> effort would be useful (and I volunteer to do so), no matter what structure >> we decide. >> >> Thoughts? Ideas? >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org >> >> > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: Focused effort on Apache Way education
The events are simply some issues with various aspects of the Apache Way, such as "the foundation does not pay for development" not being completely known by some, or misinterpreted as having a different priority. The intent is to have some centralized/focused "thingie" inside the ASF that could provide this Apache Way education to our own members, projects and directors, as well as be a source of the info for use by ComDev, the Incubator, etc... Hope this helps! Cheers. > On Jul 16, 2019, at 2:29 PM, Dmitriy Pavlov wrote: > > Hi Jim, > > Could you mention events you're referring to? > > In Apache Training (incubating) Justin started to develop content related > to the Incubator > https://github.com/apache/incubator-training/tree/master/content/ApacheWay , > so we can consider developing a standalone session related to the Apache > Way principles. But to understand if training will be helpful I would like > to know the entire story. > > You can share it with me directly if you want. > > Sincerely > Dmitriy Pavlov > > вт, 16 июл. 2019 г. в 20:52, Jim Jagielski : > >> I think that the events of the last several months have clearly shown a >> lack of awareness, knowledge and (and some level) appreciation (adherence) >> to The Apache Way. It would be useful, I think, if this was a focused >> effort w/i the foundation. >> >> Of course, there is a lot of overlap between ComDev and this effort, and >> so the questions are how best to address this. Maybe some sort of sub-cmmt >> under ComDev? Or spinning this out ala D (but as a PMC to avoid the >> problems that cmmt encountered and to engender trust and collaboration)? Or >> basically focus on it w/i ComDev with the structure "as is"... I think >> having one person "tasked" with herding the cats and coordinating the >> effort would be useful (and I volunteer to do so), no matter what structure >> we decide. >> >> Thoughts? Ideas? >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org >> >> - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: Focused effort on Apache Way education
Hi Jim, Could you mention events you're referring to? In Apache Training (incubating) Justin started to develop content related to the Incubator https://github.com/apache/incubator-training/tree/master/content/ApacheWay , so we can consider developing a standalone session related to the Apache Way principles. But to understand if training will be helpful I would like to know the entire story. You can share it with me directly if you want. Sincerely Dmitriy Pavlov вт, 16 июл. 2019 г. в 20:52, Jim Jagielski : > I think that the events of the last several months have clearly shown a > lack of awareness, knowledge and (and some level) appreciation (adherence) > to The Apache Way. It would be useful, I think, if this was a focused > effort w/i the foundation. > > Of course, there is a lot of overlap between ComDev and this effort, and > so the questions are how best to address this. Maybe some sort of sub-cmmt > under ComDev? Or spinning this out ala D (but as a PMC to avoid the > problems that cmmt encountered and to engender trust and collaboration)? Or > basically focus on it w/i ComDev with the structure "as is"... I think > having one person "tasked" with herding the cats and coordinating the > effort would be useful (and I volunteer to do so), no matter what structure > we decide. > > Thoughts? Ideas? > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > >
Focused effort on Apache Way education
I think that the events of the last several months have clearly shown a lack of awareness, knowledge and (and some level) appreciation (adherence) to The Apache Way. It would be useful, I think, if this was a focused effort w/i the foundation. Of course, there is a lot of overlap between ComDev and this effort, and so the questions are how best to address this. Maybe some sort of sub-cmmt under ComDev? Or spinning this out ala D (but as a PMC to avoid the problems that cmmt encountered and to engender trust and collaboration)? Or basically focus on it w/i ComDev with the structure "as is"... I think having one person "tasked" with herding the cats and coordinating the effort would be useful (and I volunteer to do so), no matter what structure we decide. Thoughts? Ideas? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
