Re: New Apache.org product concept: Digital Merit Badges

[Tim Williams]

On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 8:24 PM Matthew Sacks 
wrote:

> If you think there’s snark in my reply, you’ve misinterpreted it as I’m
> dead serious. Instead of letting personal opinions on awards because of
>  what sounds like a bad personal experience indicates to me the real
> benefit if the proposal was missed, and why put down an idea that promotes
> pride in one's work?
>
he gave you reasons why.  I wonder if you could try to rephrase what you
have understood him to say? I sense a disconnect that this might be helpful
for.


>  That is not the ASF I know.
> The ASF I know is board members personally showing me around when I had a
> very uninteresting project that turned into a podling.
>
> It helps encourage involvement in contributions to open source, the whole
> point of the badge.
>
> Also, his assessment was completely based on personal opinion, nothing to
> do with benefit or no benefit to the ASF.


His assessment happens to align with modern motivation theory afaict.

>
> Putting down good ideas is more damaging to focus soon than me asking for
> real facts when presented with personal convictions.


He’s not putting down a good idea so much as assessing the goodness of an
idea.  What you offered was an idea -  not necessarily a *good* idea, that
it seems is still being considered.

>
>
> Thanks for the etiquette suggestion.
>
> Regardless of your suggestions, on etiquette, It seems the majority is in
> favor.
>
> So now we vote?


Do what you want but I’d encourage you to let the world turn a couple more
times first.


Responding to Dave and others response about using metrics other than our
typical roles instead reminds me of a Dilbert cartoon:)

https://dilbert.com/strip/1995-11-13


Thanks
—tim



>
>
> On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 4:58 PM Craig Russell  wrote:
>
> > Hi Matthew,
> >
> > Your message makes me think you did not get past Daniel's first eight
> > words.
> >
> > If you read the message, he gives a few reasons to dislike badges.
> >
> > Your snarky response is not a good example of healthy community
> discussion.
> >
> > Craig
> >
> > > On Apr 5, 2021, at 4:14 PM, Matthew Sacks 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks for your input.
> > >
> > > “I don’t like it” is your only reason?
> > >
> > > Perhaps we should get rid of the corporate thank you page?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 1:47 PM Daniel Ferradal 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hello,
> > >>
> > >> In my humble opinion, I don't like labels, medals, awards, bands,
> > >> distinctions, badges, ribbons, stars, trophies or anything similar
> > >> that distinguish anyone from any other. As I see it, it's a form of
> > >> manipulation to persuade people to achieve more than they might want
> > >> and may probably lead to people feeling better than others or just the
> > >> opposite, which is worse.
> > >>
> > >> ASF being what it is, all volunteers doing whatever they can or want,
> > >> time, life, family or will permits,  but a necessary few that work
> > >> professionally to maintain operation, I don't like the idea of using
> > >> this kind of "corporate encouragement".
> > >>
> > >> I understand the idea behind this is probably well meant, but that
> > >> does not make me like it anyway.
> > >>
> > >> Cheers.
> > >>
> > >> El lun, 5 abr 2021 a las 18:06, Matthew Sacks
> > >> () escribió:
> > >>>
> > >>> If I can get a vm as you suggested I’m happy to start a PoC.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 8:52 AM Rich Bowen 
> wrote:
> > >>>
> > 
> > 
> >  On 4/5/21 10:46 AM, Matthew Sacks wrote:
> > > So far response has been more yay than nay.
> > >
> > > Next steps to turn this into a teak initiative?
> > >
> > > Vote?
> > >
> > > Podling setup or is this going to be an Infra service?
> > 
> >  There are, I believe, two possible ways forward here:
> > 
> >  1) We request a VM from infra, and someone volunteers to stand this
> up
> >  and maintain it.
> > 
> >  2) We persuade Infra that this is a necessary service that they
> should
> >  host for the Foundation.
> > 
> >  My recommendation would be to go route 1 to start, and then judge,
> > >> based
> >  on adoption, whether 2 is justified. The problem with 1, of course,
> is
> >  that it requires a volunteer who is willing to move forward with it
> > and
> >  keep it alive.
> > 
> > >
> > > The https://www.badgr.org looks like a good way to implement,
> maybe.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 7:25 AM Matt Sicker 
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> This sounds cool!
> > >>
> > >> On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 at 08:20, lidong dai 
> > >> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> wow, I like this idea very much!
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Best Regards
> > >>> ---
> > >>> DolphinScheduler PMC chair
> > >>> Lidong Dai
> > >>> dailidon...@gmail.com
> > >>> ---
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Mon, Apr 5, 

Re: New Apache.org product concept: Digital Merit Badges

[Tim Williams]

On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 7:15 PM Matthew Sacks 
wrote:

> Thanks for your input.
>
> “I don’t like it” is your only reason?


Hey Matthew,
Reread his objection, he provided his rationale beyond the way you’ve
characterized it.

If you’re familiar with motivations, it’s the difference between creating a
space where people are intrinsically motivated vs extrinsically motivated.
Carrots are a mechanism for extrinsic motivation which is prolly not
healthy for our Way.

I’d add that they are also meaningless given the disparity with which
people gain committership, PMC membership, and Foundation membership across
our projects.  Merit isn’t transferrable across projects leaving the only
merit badge of interest a Member badge, which isn’t very meaningful outside
the organization to anyone whose clueful.

Thanks
—tim


>
> Perhaps we should get rid of the corporate thank you page?
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 1:47 PM Daniel Ferradal 
> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > In my humble opinion, I don't like labels, medals, awards, bands,
> > distinctions, badges, ribbons, stars, trophies or anything similar
> > that distinguish anyone from any other. As I see it, it's a form of
> > manipulation to persuade people to achieve more than they might want
> > and may probably lead to people feeling better than others or just the
> > opposite, which is worse.
> >
> > ASF being what it is, all volunteers doing whatever they can or want,
> > time, life, family or will permits,  but a necessary few that work
> > professionally to maintain operation, I don't like the idea of using
> > this kind of "corporate encouragement".
> >
> > I understand the idea behind this is probably well meant, but that
> > does not make me like it anyway.
> >
> > Cheers.
> >
> > El lun, 5 abr 2021 a las 18:06, Matthew Sacks
> > () escribió:
> > >
> > > If I can get a vm as you suggested I’m happy to start a PoC.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 8:52 AM Rich Bowen  wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 4/5/21 10:46 AM, Matthew Sacks wrote:
> > > > > So far response has been more yay than nay.
> > > > >
> > > > > Next steps to turn this into a teak initiative?
> > > > >
> > > > > Vote?
> > > > >
> > > > > Podling setup or is this going to be an Infra service?
> > > >
> > > > There are, I believe, two possible ways forward here:
> > > >
> > > > 1) We request a VM from infra, and someone volunteers to stand this
> up
> > > > and maintain it.
> > > >
> > > > 2) We persuade Infra that this is a necessary service that they
> should
> > > > host for the Foundation.
> > > >
> > > > My recommendation would be to go route 1 to start, and then judge,
> > based
> > > > on adoption, whether 2 is justified. The problem with 1, of course,
> is
> > > > that it requires a volunteer who is willing to move forward with it
> and
> > > > keep it alive.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The https://www.badgr.org looks like a good way to implement,
> maybe.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 7:25 AM Matt Sicker 
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> This sounds cool!
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 at 08:20, lidong dai 
> > wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> wow, I like this idea very much!
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Best Regards
> > > > >>> ---
> > > > >>> DolphinScheduler PMC chair
> > > > >>> Lidong Dai
> > > > >>> dailidon...@gmail.com
> > > > >>> ---
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 9:16 PM Matthew Sacks <
> > matt...@matthewsacks.com
> > > > >
> > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > >  Note text: “something like”. I didn’t advocate using NFT’s
> > themselves.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >  On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 5:43 AM Jarek Potiuk 
> > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > AaaaH .. No NFT please :).
> > > > >
> > > > > J.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 2:30 PM Matthew Sacks <
> > > > >> matt...@matthewsacks.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Does Badgr have some kind of certification method to validate
> > the
> > > > >> badge
> > > > >> authenticity?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I was thinking something like NFT’s for the badge graphic.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 5:26 AM Rich Bowen  >
> > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> On 4/5/21 8:19 AM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> > > >  I had a similar idea some years back, but with a slightly
> more
> > > >  tongue-in-cheek approach.
> > > > 
> > > >  Some sample "merits" I had in mind then:
> > > > 
> > > >  - 1,000 commits within a year
> > > >  - 5,000 commits in total
> > > >  - 1,000 emails to our lists
> > > >  - Annoyed Sally more than 5 times
> > > >  - Caused at least one CVE
> > > >  - *Fixed* at least that one CVE...
> > > > 
> > > >  Well, you can see what I'm talking about. It's 

Re: [VOTE] ComDev supports formation of D committee

[Tim Williams]

-1...  it's completely unnecessary (as the work could easily be done under the 
CommDev banner) and gives the sense of "action" towards a cause without 
actually solving any real problem.  Ironically, I predict it will fracture the 
community and have the effect of removing diversity of views on this very 
subject - creating an echo-chamber.  It'll pass though, so best wishes...

Thanks,
--tim

On 2019/05/04 22:06:47, Myrle Krantz  wrote: 
> I propose that ComDev submmit the following statement to the board:
> 
> "The ComDev PMC hereby requests that the board create a President's
> committee tasked with supporting our communities in their efforts to be
> diverse and welcoming places, and tasked with helping the ASF formulate a
> strategy to improve our diversity and inclusiveness.  The ComDev PMC
> likewise formally requests that the new committee look for ways in which
> ComDev can support our progress in these areas."
> 
> Here's my +1.
> 
> Best Regards,
> Myrle
> PMC Member, Apache Community Development
> 

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Re: Encouraging Diversity - Update 6

[Tim Williams]

On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 10:56 AM, Shane Curcuru  wrote:
> Sam Ruby wrote on 11/15/16 3:41 PM:
>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 9:11 AM, Niclas Hedhman  wrote:
> ...
>> First, if you are not convinced, don't participate. All we ask is that
>> you don't actively prevent others from doing so.  Go Sharan and
>> others!
> ...
>
> +1.
>
> We have at least three ComDev PMC members who are interested in doing
> this work, so I'm glad to see it move forward.  General complaints don't
> help, and often harm.  Specific patches or changes with consensus behind
> them that help the work move forward would be appreciated.


Taking yours and Sam's "then don't participate"-style responses, one
might conclude that diversity is desirable only when folks are of like
mind, which kinda defeats the point.

The original feedback wasn't general complaints, it was a specific
question:  "what does feel safe mean?"  It's a reasonable question,
even if there was some over-use of hyperbole.  He ended with a
paragraph like, "now, if this is what you mean...I'm fine with it"  On
any other topic, I feel like most folks around here would assume
positive intent and try to understand the perspective.

Thanks,
--tim

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Re: [ApacheCon] Volunteers needed, Audio processing

[Tim Williams]

Hi Rich,
How much is the sponsorship for this?  And, given the lack of external
sponsors, why don't we (ASF) just sponsor it given what a great
support/service it'd be to our projects and their communities?

Thanks,
--tim


On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 12:29 PM, Rich Bowen  wrote:
> As some of you know, we do not have a sponsor to handle audio/video
> recording at ApacheCon this year. Thus, we'll be doing it ourselves -
> just audio, not video.
>
> So, I need volunteers for the following things:
>
> If you are willing to video presentations and put them on YouTube,
> please step up and do this. Keynotes, in particular, would be appreciated.
>
> More importantly, I'll be dealing with 8 tracks x 9 hours x 5 days of
> audio that will need to be edited. This isn't complicated, it just requires:
>
> * Computer with Audacity ( http://www.audacityteam.org/ ) installed, and
> your own headphones
> * Lots of patience
>
> The process is:
>
> * Dump huge files off of SD cards at the end of each day
> * Split large recording into sessions
> * Strip off leading, trailing noise
> * Encode to mp3
> * Upload to feathercast.apache.org
> * Write brief boilerplate blog post (Name, Session title, Abstract)
>
> If you are willing to do this for even an hour, please let me know. I
> will be doing this each evening, for the duration of the event, and
> probably quite a bit during the days. If you just drop by the hackathon
> area, and help me out for even a brief time, I'll be very grateful.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --Rich
>
> (Looking towards next event, if you or your company want to sponsor
> audio/video for the upcoming ApacheCon EU, your company will get a lot
> of thanks and retweets out of this.)
>
> --
> Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen
> http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon

projects

[Tim Williams]

Howdy All,
Where does the source/code for projects.a.o live?

https://projects.apache.org/projects.html?category

Thanks,
--tim

Re: Incubating, Graduating Code of conduct @ The ASF (spin-off of Better specifying....)

[Tim Williams]

On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 10:23 AM, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote:
 Branko,

 I am confident that the existing project with bylaws, policies and/or
 standing rules formalised has had its share of discussions regarding
 applicability of elements therein.. And have resolved those. I guess that
 when such an element is either to vague or to restrictive so that the
 situation becomes untenable to move things forward, the community will find
 ways to resolve it.

 This thread is about:


- why does the Board tasks projects to create a set of bylaws for some
graduating podlings (when so many seem to feel that it doesn't add value);
- and when it does, why doesn't it  follow up on the task or request the
VP of the project to report on its progress until the task is completed.

 It has to come from somewhere. It seems to come to light during the
 incubation phase. Don't mentors advice properly?

I reckon the answer to these questions is simply that we've all
realized over a long period of time that project-specific bylaws -
while once popular and thought necessary - aren't desirable.  We
thought they were necessary a decade ago and over the course of time
realized not so much. And, while we've all come to that realization,
no one has taken the time to change the TLP resolution to reflect
that. And that's likely because most of us don't have bureaucratic
itches - you apparently do, so why not just ask the incubator
PMC/board to drop that paragraph?

Thanks,
--tim

Re: Incubating, Graduating Code of conduct @ The ASF (spin-off of Better specifying....)

[Tim Williams]

On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 10:56 AM, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote:
 Tim,

 It seems you're rather fond of it.

Huh? I'm not sure what it is or why you're making observations about
what I'm fond of.

 Quite the number of posters in this
 thread are particpating in either body, or both. I feel confident that they
 can take it as input from here and discuss appropriate follow-up in their
 specific mailing lists.

Umm... that's not how our little do-ocracy works dood.  I doubt I'm
the only one that finds it remarkably unrewarding to help someone who
has an itch they're unwilling to scratch themselves.

--tim

Re: LABS a top level project of the ASF? (Was: Re: Incubating, ....)

[Tim Williams]

On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 12:28 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz
bdelacre...@apache.org wrote:
 On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 2:26 PM, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote:
 ... I would say that given the multitude of external facilities available
 outside of the ASF (Sourceforge, Github, etc) that it has reached the end
 of its lifespan regarding its goal...

 What does the labs PMC say about this?

I'd say this is the wrong place to have this particular discussion.
The courteous thing to do is to have a project specific discussion on
the project's specific list.

Even better, search the project's archives for where this topic has
come up before and see if there is new information to offer on the
discussion...

Thanks,
--tim

Re: A maturity model for Apache projects

[Tim Williams]

On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 3:06 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote:
 On 06/01/2015 Vincent Keunen wrote:

 On 2015-01-06 19:15, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:

 convenience binaries are not Apache Releases.

 Let's not forget OpenOffice and the likes.  Having all users compile the
 source code *may* reduce the installed base.  ;-)


 The binaries OpenOffice makes available for download from its official site
 are convenience binaries as per Bertrand's description. We are not going
 to ask users to build it themselves!

We're heading off-topic a bit, but... Really? I thought you guys were
some sort of exception to our normal policy and that it was provided
by the PMC.  It's remarkable to me that a single individual would
wittingly accept liability for binaries with that large an install
base.  Hopefully the RM has a good umbrella policy...

--tim

Re: First spark summit

[Tim Williams]

I'm still willing to help out and lurk over here...

--tim

On Thursday, October 10, 2013, Rich Bowen wrote:

 I'm ex concom, but willing to help out.

 We should (imho) have one calendar. So whichever we decide on, we should
 redirect the other. The events hostname sounds most memorable.

 --
 Rich Bowen, mobile edition
 rbo...@rcbowen.com javascript:;
 On Oct 10, 2013 5:35 PM, Nick Burch n...@apache.org javascript:;
 wrote:

  On Thu, 10 Oct 2013, Andy Konwinski wrote:
 
  We are planning the first Spark Summit (Spark is an incubator project)
 for
  Dec 2-3 2013. Can you add it to the event calendar (
  http://community.apache.org/**calendars/conferences.html
 http://community.apache.org/calendars/conferences.html)
  please?
 
 
  Added!
 
 
  ComDev - two things. Firstly, the current list of people with calendar
  karma looks rather ex-concom (*sniff*) heavy, beign myself + Noirin +
 Gret
  + Tim + Melissa. Is there anyone from ComDev who's able and willing to
 help?
 
  Secondly - the events.apache.org site has a slightly more advanced
  version of the calendar JS, which copes with links (compare [1] with
 [2]),
  is it worth bring that over, or ditching the comdev page in favour of
  events.apache.org now that the latter is (I believe?) a ComDev thing?
 
  Nick
 
  [1] http://community.apache.org/**calendars/index.html
 http://community.apache.org/calendars/index.html
  [2] http://events.apache.org/**event/index.html
 http://events.apache.org/event/index.html
 

Re: Event-in-a-Box

[Tim Williams]

On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 7:17 PM, Melissa Warnkin missywarn...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Hello, ComDev!!

 Following up on Rich's email from a few weeks back regarding the 
 Event-in-a-Box, I wanted to share with you all, as an FYI, what I have 
 produced so far.  The below list is my takeaway of what should be included in 
 the actual physical box (as in, what I will ship out for your events!!).


 Physical
 Content List:
 * Standard giveaways
 * Apache BarCamp Banner
 * Pens
 * Thick felt pens of varying colors
 * Blue Tack
 * Masking tape
 * A2 or larger sheets (for schedule grid)
 * Blank A4 paper (for schedule grid)
 * Sticky labels ….is this different from post-its of various sizes
 * Post-Its of various sizes
 * Name badges
 * Registration sheets (would need an example of what you want here!)
 * Rubbish bags
 * Power strips …..how many and what kind (6packs)
 * Extension cords….how many and what length
 * Highlighters
 * Emergencykit
 * wifi routers for local networking

Hi Melissa,
FWIW, I'd be happy with a mini-version of this - mainly:

o) Apache BarCamp Banner
o) Standard giveaways
o) ** Table skirt
o) ** Apache Backdrop
o) Name badges

Thanks,
--tim

Re: Presentations

[Tim Williams]

Justin, do you have any openly licensed presentations on
apache-apachway-opendev-licensing-etc you could share?  I think we're
looking for something that could serve as the basis for a 'standard'
slide-deck for these topics and that could be maintained/improved over
time at commdev.

--tim

On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 5:47 PM, Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Ping jerenkrantz as he has given several such presos.



 - Original Message 
 From: Tim Williams william...@gmail.com
 To: dev@community.apache.org
 Sent: Mon, August 2, 2010 5:43:47 PM
 Subject: Re: Presentations

 On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 11:44 AM, Ross Gardler rgard...@apache.org wrote:
  On  02/08/2010 16:00, Isabel Drost wrote:
 
  On Mon, 2 Aug 2010  Bertrand Delacretazbdelacre...@apache.org   wrote:
 
  On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 1:56 PM, Tim  Williamswilliam...@gmail.com
   wrote:
 
  ... I'm
   willing to help pull something together if nothing exists  already...
 
  Once you have something, I suggest  storing/maintaining it under
   http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/
 
  +1 - if easily  accessible for any ASF committer (as you suggested
   below).
 
  Absolutely. Lets make this happen. Once we have the  slides in SVN we can
  create a page on the website for  them.
 
  I'd also like to see people linking to them from their  people near you
  entries so that people can search for a potential  speaker and view their
  common presentations.
 
  However,  lets start by collecting the info.
 
  I've got a few presentations  I'd be happy to provide.

 I'm not sure what the best way to do this is or  where it will lead,
 but if you can make any apache licensed presentation  available to me
 somewhere, I'll see what I can come up with.  I've been  wanting to
 give a somewhat amorphous talk on  apache+apacheway+open
 development+licensing to a customer so maybe this will  be the
 motivation...

 --tim

Re: Presentations

[Tim Williams]

On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 5:20 AM, Christian Grobmeier grobme...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hello all,

 I don't know if this topic has been discussed before or if I missed if
 its aready there. But before a few weeks I had to explain to my
 customer what actually open source is. I have started to create some
 slides myself, after I found nothing on the a.org sites. Then I was
 aware of:

 * 
 http://opensource.org/osi-open-source-education#presentations_developed_by_osi

 which is pretty good for explaining open source.
 However, my customer was doing stuff mostly in Java and so ASF
 projects were used. He was esspecially interested in the ASF licensing
 model, in what people are working there and in what actually is the
 ASF. I have done some slides, but I think this could be done better
 if we would develop some official resources together.

 Of course some might say, that people who are not connected to the ASF
 could use this official ASF slides. But they will talk about the same
 things, just without ASF slides. And hopefully good slides help also
 to clean up with some misunderstandings. Additionally we can make sure
 that things, which are important to the ASF, like meritocracy are
 pointed out in a good way and not only with one sentence between
 coffee and cookie.

 That being said, I would love to have the chance to take some official
 slides when I get to my customer next time. Is there anybody who feels
 the same?

Definitely.  I was just poking around this weekend seeing if a
standard slide deck were out there but found nothing but extremely
dated material.  I think a good one would cover lots of ground and be
easily tailorable - preferably in an open format (e.g. HTML:).  I'm
willing to help pull something together if nothing exists already.

--tim