Re: Installers -- making them official for 11.1?

[Geertjan Wielenga]

Right, thanks a lot for that reference.

What Kirk is looking at doing via AdoptOpenJDK is: "Free copies of Apache
NetBeans software under the Apache License and support services for Apache
NetBeans are available at AdoptOpenJDK."

Meanwhile, since Emilian has modified Apache NetBeans (added some modules,
additional features, etc), the second case in the link you sent applies:
"My own derivative works of Apache NetBeans software and support services
for those derivative works are available as CoolBeans, i.e., under my own
trademarks at my website."

So, based on this, if AdoptOpenJDK make no changes at all, but simply aim
to redistribute the same Apache NetBeans that we release here, they can use
the 'Apache NetBeans' name. However, they would need to redistribute the
binary that we produce in a release, i.e., they couldn't go to the GitHub
repo, do a clone, and then create some subset of it to produce their own
binary -- since that binary could, for example, potentially, provide a
distribution that only contains HTML features, theoretically. They could
not call that Apache NetBeans, even though they haven't modified the
sources in any way?

Gj

On Fri, May 31, 2019 at 9:30 AM Neil C Smith  wrote:

> On Fri, 31 May 2019, 09:21 Geertjan Wielenga,  wrote:
>
> > I believe so, but cannot confirm with 100% certainty.
> >
>
> Is there ever 100% certainty?! :-)
>
> The first example of nominative fair use here appears to cover exactly this
> though?
>
> https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/#guidelines
>
> I assume we might want to clarify the distinction between that and
> derivative though. Eg. Removing modules / clusters, etc.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
>
> >
>

Re: Installers -- making them official for 11.1?

[Neil C Smith]

On Fri, 31 May 2019, 09:21 Geertjan Wielenga,  wrote:

> I believe so, but cannot confirm with 100% certainty.
>

Is there ever 100% certainty?! :-)

The first example of nominative fair use here appears to cover exactly this
though?

https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/#guidelines

I assume we might want to clarify the distinction between that and
derivative though. Eg. Removing modules / clusters, etc.

Best wishes,

Neil

>

Re: Installers -- making them official for 11.1?

[Geertjan Wielenga]

I believe so, but cannot confirm with 100% certainty.

Is there a way we can provide this certainty, i.e., is this something we
can decide ourselves or do we need to have this approved by Apache -- does
anyone know?

Thanks,

Gj


On Fri, May 31, 2019 at 3:12 AM Kodewerk  wrote:

> Hi Gj,
>
> Can you confirm that if we don’t modify source that we can just build,
> package a distribute?
>
> Kind regards,
> Kirk
>
>
> > On May 30, 2019, at 2:38 PM, Geertjan Wielenga 
> wrote:
> >
> > Yeah, I could be wrong. Maybe rebranding is not needed if indeed the
> binary
> > is made from unmodified sources.
> >
> > Gj
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 30 May 2019 at 23:11, Neil C Smith 
> wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 30 May 2019, 23:02 Kodewerk,  wrote:
> >>
> >>> I would personally prefer Apache-NetBeans… but I’ve been told that we
> >>> needed to rebrand.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Well, this is the thread I'm thinking of -
> >>
> >>
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/072862707d0c75ec72f474d696a1addd994055b0c5b7617d3c7403ca@%3Cdev.netbeans.apache.org%3E
> >>
> >> Best wishes,
> >>
> >> Neil
> >>
> >>>
> >>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>

Re: Installers -- making them official for 11.1?

[Geertjan Wielenga]

Yeah, I could be wrong. Maybe rebranding is not needed if indeed the binary
is made from unmodified sources.

Gj


On Thu, 30 May 2019 at 23:11, Neil C Smith  wrote:

> On Thu, 30 May 2019, 23:02 Kodewerk,  wrote:
>
> > I would personally prefer Apache-NetBeans… but I’ve been told that we
> > needed to rebrand.
> >
>
> Well, this is the thread I'm thinking of -
>
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/072862707d0c75ec72f474d696a1addd994055b0c5b7617d3c7403ca@%3Cdev.netbeans.apache.org%3E
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
>
> >
>

Re: Installers -- making them official for 11.1?

[Neil C Smith]

On Thu, 30 May 2019, 23:02 Kodewerk,  wrote:

> I would personally prefer Apache-NetBeans… but I’ve been told that we
> needed to rebrand.
>

Well, this is the thread I'm thinking of -
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/072862707d0c75ec72f474d696a1addd994055b0c5b7617d3c7403ca@%3Cdev.netbeans.apache.org%3E

Best wishes,

Neil

>

Re: Installers -- making them official for 11.1?

[Kodewerk]

I would personally prefer Apache-NetBeans… but I’ve been told that we needed to 
rebrand.

— Kirk


> On May 30, 2019, at 2:00 PM, Neil C Smith  wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 30 May 2019, 18:47 Kodewerk,  wrote:
> 
>> For example, I believe we can’t call the distro Apache-NetBeans so we’re
>> thinking of calling it Adopt-NetBeans.
>> 
> 
> While l wouldn't want to stop use of Adopt NetBeans, because it sounds
> great, I'm not sure you can't use Apache NetBeans. If I recall correctly,
> the last time this came up we talked about people distributing a build from
> unmodified sources being allowed?! And fairly sure it was up to us to
> define acceptable uses of the name?
> 
> Having reproducible builds might be good for this in future.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Neil
> 
>> 


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.apache.org

For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists

Re: Installers -- making them official for 11.1?

[Neil C Smith]

On Thu, 30 May 2019, 18:47 Kodewerk,  wrote:

> For example, I believe we can’t call the distro Apache-NetBeans so we’re
> thinking of calling it Adopt-NetBeans.
>

While l wouldn't want to stop use of Adopt NetBeans, because it sounds
great, I'm not sure you can't use Apache NetBeans. If I recall correctly,
the last time this came up we talked about people distributing a build from
unmodified sources being allowed?! And fairly sure it was up to us to
define acceptable uses of the name?

Having reproducible builds might be good for this in future.

Best wishes,

Neil

>

Re: Installers -- making them official for 11.1?

[Patrick Musembi]

Adopt Netbeans is fine. Because of those developers who want php support
only or html/js.

+1

On Thu, May 30, 2019, 20:32 Josh Juneau  wrote:

> I love the idea of the Adopt project distributing NetBeans as
> "Adopt-NetBeans".  The AdoptOpenJDK page makes it easy for newcomers to get
> started...and even easier with NetBeans as an option.
>
> On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 12:29 PM Geertjan Wielenga 
> wrote:
>
> > “Adopt NetBeans” would not only be a name, it would also be a ‘call to
> > action’. :-)
> >
> > Gj
> >
> > On Thu, 30 May 2019 at 19:23, Matthias Bläsing <
> mblaes...@doppel-helix.eu>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Am Donnerstag, den 30.05.2019, 09:46 -0700 schrieb Kodewerk:
> > > > The Adopt project would like to distribute NetBeans but we’ve yet to
> > > > sort out what is needed to make that happen. For example, I believe
> > > > we can’t call the distro Apache-NetBeans so we’re thinking of calling
> > > > it Adopt-NetBeans. This implies that there a number of things we need
> > > > to alter as part of the rebranding. Is there anything else that needs
> > > > to be done before Adopt could distribute NetBeans?
> > >
> > > this sound awesome. Indeed AdoptOpenJDK is in a very good position to
> > > create a full working NetBeans distribution together with a JDK and
> > > maybe even jlinked.
> > >
> > > If I'm not mistaken, the name is trademarked and the ASF requires, that
> > > derivates may not be called the original project name (as you rightly
> > > put it). I'm aware of CoolBeans a project from Emilian Bold and
> > > essentially a NetBeans distribution. I think Adopt NetBeans sounds
> > > good.
> > >
> > > Greetings
> > >
> > > Matthias
> > >
> > >
> > > -
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.apache.org
> > >
> > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> --
> Josh Juneau
> juneau...@gmail.com
> http://jj-blogger.blogspot.com
> https://www.apress.com/us/search?query=Juneau
> 
>

Re: Installers -- making them official for 11.1?

[Josh Juneau]

I love the idea of the Adopt project distributing NetBeans as
"Adopt-NetBeans".  The AdoptOpenJDK page makes it easy for newcomers to get
started...and even easier with NetBeans as an option.

On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 12:29 PM Geertjan Wielenga 
wrote:

> “Adopt NetBeans” would not only be a name, it would also be a ‘call to
> action’. :-)
>
> Gj
>
> On Thu, 30 May 2019 at 19:23, Matthias Bläsing 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Am Donnerstag, den 30.05.2019, 09:46 -0700 schrieb Kodewerk:
> > > The Adopt project would like to distribute NetBeans but we’ve yet to
> > > sort out what is needed to make that happen. For example, I believe
> > > we can’t call the distro Apache-NetBeans so we’re thinking of calling
> > > it Adopt-NetBeans. This implies that there a number of things we need
> > > to alter as part of the rebranding. Is there anything else that needs
> > > to be done before Adopt could distribute NetBeans?
> >
> > this sound awesome. Indeed AdoptOpenJDK is in a very good position to
> > create a full working NetBeans distribution together with a JDK and
> > maybe even jlinked.
> >
> > If I'm not mistaken, the name is trademarked and the ASF requires, that
> > derivates may not be called the original project name (as you rightly
> > put it). I'm aware of CoolBeans a project from Emilian Bold and
> > essentially a NetBeans distribution. I think Adopt NetBeans sounds
> > good.
> >
> > Greetings
> >
> > Matthias
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
-- 
Josh Juneau
juneau...@gmail.com
http://jj-blogger.blogspot.com
https://www.apress.com/us/search?query=Juneau

Re: Installers -- making them official for 11.1?

[Geertjan Wielenga]

“Adopt NetBeans” would not only be a name, it would also be a ‘call to
action’. :-)

Gj

On Thu, 30 May 2019 at 19:23, Matthias Bläsing 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Am Donnerstag, den 30.05.2019, 09:46 -0700 schrieb Kodewerk:
> > The Adopt project would like to distribute NetBeans but we’ve yet to
> > sort out what is needed to make that happen. For example, I believe
> > we can’t call the distro Apache-NetBeans so we’re thinking of calling
> > it Adopt-NetBeans. This implies that there a number of things we need
> > to alter as part of the rebranding. Is there anything else that needs
> > to be done before Adopt could distribute NetBeans?
>
> this sound awesome. Indeed AdoptOpenJDK is in a very good position to
> create a full working NetBeans distribution together with a JDK and
> maybe even jlinked.
>
> If I'm not mistaken, the name is trademarked and the ASF requires, that
> derivates may not be called the original project name (as you rightly
> put it). I'm aware of CoolBeans a project from Emilian Bold and
> essentially a NetBeans distribution. I think Adopt NetBeans sounds
> good.
>
> Greetings
>
> Matthias
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>

Re: Installers -- making them official for 11.1?

[Matthias Bläsing]

Hi,

Am Donnerstag, den 30.05.2019, 09:46 -0700 schrieb Kodewerk:
> The Adopt project would like to distribute NetBeans but we’ve yet to
> sort out what is needed to make that happen. For example, I believe
> we can’t call the distro Apache-NetBeans so we’re thinking of calling
> it Adopt-NetBeans. This implies that there a number of things we need
> to alter as part of the rebranding. Is there anything else that needs
> to be done before Adopt could distribute NetBeans?

this sound awesome. Indeed AdoptOpenJDK is in a very good position to
create a full working NetBeans distribution together with a JDK and
maybe even jlinked.

If I'm not mistaken, the name is trademarked and the ASF requires, that
derivates may not be called the original project name (as you rightly
put it). I'm aware of CoolBeans a project from Emilian Bold and
essentially a NetBeans distribution. I think Adopt NetBeans sounds
good.

Greetings

Matthias


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.apache.org

For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists

RE: Installers -- making them official for 11.1?

[Eduardo Quintanilla]

How about downloading the JDK as a step in the installer? Then any distribution 
could be added to that list by the community with a PR request  and no license 
issues will be needed to solve.

Best regards,
Eduardo Quintanilla
Software Developer

-Original Message-
From: Josh Juneau 
Sent: jueves, 30 de mayo de 2019 11:45 a. m.
To: dev@netbeans.apache.org
Subject: Re: Installers -- making them official for 11.1?

I have been using Azul Zulu JDK for a while now with no issues.  Very simple 
zip to extract.  +1 for targeting Zulu as the free OpenJDK for use.
However, I'm not sure if we could necessarily "Package" it with Apache 
NetBeans.  If there is an OpenJDK that would be acceptable for packaging along 
with the Apache NetBeans installer, then that would be the simplest solution 
for a beginner.

On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 11:21 AM Damjan Jovanovic  wrote:

> The other problem with .ZIP is that it doesn't preserve permissions
> bits for *nix, breaking Maven and several other built-in tools.
>
> On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 11:55 AM mike james
>  >
> wrote:
>
> > Hi
> > I'm new so tell me if I'm doing something wrong/odd.
> >
> > Can I just say that while experienced programmers have no problems
> > with "unzip this" and so on NetBeans is a very attractive IDE for
> > the complete beginner and an installer lowers the barrier to them
> > getting started with NetBeans in particular rather than
> alternatives.
> > I has to be frictionless - well as much as possible.
> > I've tried the installer on Windows and it works very nicely.
> > Constructive comment - the final screen might say something more to
> > tell the newbie where to find NetBeans- Windows does a good job of
> > hiding it unless you know its on the desktop.
> > mikej
> >
> > On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 9:34 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> > 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Now that the installer sources are in our GitHub repo:
> > >
> > > https://github.com/apache/netbeans/tree/master/nbbuild/installer
> > >
> > > ...thanks to Reema's work here:
> > >
> > > https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/1052
> > >
> > > Is there anything preventing us from including the installers as
> > > convenience binaries as part of the 11.1 release, instead of
> > > having
> them
> > > available as experimental installers in her repo here:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://github.com/rtaneja1/incubator-netbeans/tree/installer-bin-11vc
> 4/nbbuild/installer/binaries
> > >
> > > Hope so, would be excellent -- the missing official installers is
> > probably
> > > our most requested feature. :-)
> > >
> > > Gj
> > >
> >
>
--
Josh Juneau
juneau...@gmail.com
http://jj-blogger.blogspot.com
https://www.apress.com/us/search?query=Juneau
<https://www.apress.com/index.php/author/author/view/id/1866>


The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which 
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any 
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action 
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the 
intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact 
the sender and delete the material from any computer.
La información transmitida está destinada únicamente a la persona o entidad a 
quien que va dirigida y puede contener información confidencial y/o material 
privilegiado. Cualquier revisión, retransmisión, difusión u otros usos, o 
cualquier acción tomada por personas o entidades distintas al destinatario 
basándose en esta información está prohibida. Si usted recibe este mensaje por 
error, por favor contacte al remitente y elimine el material de cualquier 
computadora.

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.apache.org

For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists

Re: Installers -- making them official for 11.1?

[Kodewerk]

Hi all,

The Adopt project would like to distribute NetBeans but we’ve yet to sort out 
what is needed to make that happen. For example, I believe we can’t call the 
distro Apache-NetBeans so we’re thinking of calling it Adopt-NetBeans. This 
implies that there a number of things we need to alter as part of the 
rebranding. Is there anything else that needs to be done before Adopt could 
distribute NetBeans?

Kind regards,
Kirk

> On May 30, 2019, at 8:59 AM, Geertjan Wielenga  wrote:
> 
> OK, which one?
> 
> Gj
> 
> On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 5:36 PM mike james 
> wrote:
> 
>> Yes go for the installer - important to get new users no question about it.
>> And I follow about licencing problem (sometimes I think FOSS licensing is
>> also too confusing for mortals).
>> But - at least pick one and include instructions on how to install it.
>> It doesn't have to be the best or have anything special about - just
>> something to get started with.
>> Sometimes what matters is having something definite to get going and then
>> you can make changes later.
>> mikej
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 3:19 PM Geertjan Wielenga 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> NetBeans runs on JDK 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12.
>>> 
>>> But that's not the point in this discussion. The discussion is about
>>> installers -- and just to save some time here, we cannot bundle the JDK
>>> with NetBeans into an installer and then distribute that installer from
>>> Apache because the JDK is GPL licensed, which means it cannot be
>>> distributed from Apache because of Apache's licensing restrictions.
>>> 
>>> Gj
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.apache.org

For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists

Re: Installers -- making them official for 11.1?

[Josh Juneau]

I have been using Azul Zulu JDK for a while now with no issues.  Very
simple zip to extract.  +1 for targeting Zulu as the free OpenJDK for use.
However, I'm not sure if we could necessarily "Package" it with Apache
NetBeans.  If there is an OpenJDK that would be acceptable for packaging
along with the Apache NetBeans installer, then that would be the simplest
solution for a beginner.

On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 11:21 AM Damjan Jovanovic  wrote:

> The other problem with .ZIP is that it doesn't preserve permissions bits
> for *nix, breaking Maven and several other built-in tools.
>
> On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 11:55 AM mike james  >
> wrote:
>
> > Hi
> > I'm new so tell me if I'm doing something wrong/odd.
> >
> > Can I just say that while experienced programmers have no problems with
> > "unzip this" and so on
> > NetBeans is a very attractive IDE for the complete beginner and an
> > installer lowers the barrier to
> > them getting started with NetBeans in particular rather than
> alternatives.
> > I has to be frictionless - well as much as possible.
> > I've tried the installer on Windows and it works very nicely.
> > Constructive comment - the final screen might say something more to tell
> > the newbie where to find NetBeans-
> > Windows does a good job of hiding it unless you know its on the desktop.
> > mikej
> >
> > On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 9:34 AM Geertjan Wielenga 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Now that the installer sources are in our GitHub repo:
> > >
> > > https://github.com/apache/netbeans/tree/master/nbbuild/installer
> > >
> > > ...thanks to Reema's work here:
> > >
> > > https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/1052
> > >
> > > Is there anything preventing us from including the installers as
> > > convenience binaries as part of the 11.1 release, instead of having
> them
> > > available as experimental installers in her repo here:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://github.com/rtaneja1/incubator-netbeans/tree/installer-bin-11vc4/nbbuild/installer/binaries
> > >
> > > Hope so, would be excellent -- the missing official installers is
> > probably
> > > our most requested feature. :-)
> > >
> > > Gj
> > >
> >
>
-- 
Josh Juneau
juneau...@gmail.com
http://jj-blogger.blogspot.com
https://www.apress.com/us/search?query=Juneau

Re: Installers -- making them official for 11.1?

[Damjan Jovanovic]

The other problem with .ZIP is that it doesn't preserve permissions bits
for *nix, breaking Maven and several other built-in tools.

On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 11:55 AM mike james 
wrote:

> Hi
> I'm new so tell me if I'm doing something wrong/odd.
>
> Can I just say that while experienced programmers have no problems with
> "unzip this" and so on
> NetBeans is a very attractive IDE for the complete beginner and an
> installer lowers the barrier to
> them getting started with NetBeans in particular rather than alternatives.
> I has to be frictionless - well as much as possible.
> I've tried the installer on Windows and it works very nicely.
> Constructive comment - the final screen might say something more to tell
> the newbie where to find NetBeans-
> Windows does a good job of hiding it unless you know its on the desktop.
> mikej
>
> On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 9:34 AM Geertjan Wielenga 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Now that the installer sources are in our GitHub repo:
> >
> > https://github.com/apache/netbeans/tree/master/nbbuild/installer
> >
> > ...thanks to Reema's work here:
> >
> > https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/1052
> >
> > Is there anything preventing us from including the installers as
> > convenience binaries as part of the 11.1 release, instead of having them
> > available as experimental installers in her repo here:
> >
> >
> >
> https://github.com/rtaneja1/incubator-netbeans/tree/installer-bin-11vc4/nbbuild/installer/binaries
> >
> > Hope so, would be excellent -- the missing official installers is
> probably
> > our most requested feature. :-)
> >
> > Gj
> >
>

Re: Installers -- making them official for 11.1?

[Geertjan Wielenga]

OK, which one?

Gj

On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 5:36 PM mike james 
wrote:

> Yes go for the installer - important to get new users no question about it.
> And I follow about licencing problem (sometimes I think FOSS licensing is
> also too confusing for mortals).
> But - at least pick one and include instructions on how to install it.
> It doesn't have to be the best or have anything special about - just
> something to get started with.
> Sometimes what matters is having something definite to get going and then
> you can make changes later.
> mikej
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 3:19 PM Geertjan Wielenga 
> wrote:
>
> > NetBeans runs on JDK 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12.
> >
> > But that's not the point in this discussion. The discussion is about
> > installers -- and just to save some time here, we cannot bundle the JDK
> > with NetBeans into an installer and then distribute that installer from
> > Apache because the JDK is GPL licensed, which means it cannot be
> > distributed from Apache because of Apache's licensing restrictions.
> >
> > Gj
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: Re: Installers -- making them official for 11.1

[Eric Bresie]

This is probably an enhancement request or an activity for a future time but 
with the more recent changes in Java I seem to recall with the jlink and/or 
jpackage coming that it is possible to no longer require a JDK directly be 
installed but build a package with a subset of items for inclusion in the java 
applicable and avoid the need all together. Although there may still be some 
licensing constraints on some of that depending on what is used.

Eric Bresie
ebre...@gmail.com
> On May 30, 2019 at 8:34:25 AM CDT, Geertjan Wielenga  
> wrote:
> But there's several more, e.g., off the top of my head, Pivotal has one and
> there's also JetBrains Runtime.
>
> Gj
>
> On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 3:28 PM Eduardo Quintanilla 
> wrote:
>
> > I would recommend reading the Java Is Still Free document
> >
> > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nFGazvrCvHMZJgFstlbzoHjpAVwv5DEdnaBr_5pKuHo/edit?usp=sharing
> >
> > From that document
> >
> > Free Builds for Linux, Windows, Mac, etc. [OpenJDK, no commercial support]:
> >
> > AdoptOpenJDK (commercial support also available by IBM and jClarity)
> > https://adoptopenjdk.net/
> >
> >
> > Amazon Corretto
> > https://aws.amazon.com/corretto/
> >
> >
> > Azul Zulu (commercial support also available)
> > https://www.azul.com/downloads/zulu/
> >
> >
> > BellSoft Liberica JDK (commercial support also available)
> > https://bell-sw.com/java.html
> >
> >
> > Oracle OpenJDK build
> > http://jdk.java.net/
> >
> > SapMachine
> > http://sapmachine.io
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Eduardo Quintanilla
> > Software Developer
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Geertjan Wielenga 
> > Sent: jueves, 30 de mayo de 2019 6:00 a. m.
> > To: dev 
> > Subject: Re: Installers -- making them official for 11.1?
> >
> > Sure, though the question will be 'which JDK'. :-) There's about a dozen
> > of them right now.
> >
> > Gj
> >
> > On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 12:52 PM Patrick Musembi 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Can we also provide a link for downloading jdk if there is no jdk
> > > installed mainly because of non-java developers.
> > >
> > > On Thu, May 30, 2019, 13:22 Geertjan Wielenga 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Excellent, thank you for this feedback.
> > > >
> > > > More from others, welcome.
> > > >
> > > > Gj
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 11:55 AM mike james <
> > > mike.ja...@infomaxgroup.co.uk
> > > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi
> > > > > I'm new so tell me if I'm doing something wrong/odd.
> > > > >
> > > > > Can I just say that while experienced programmers have no problems
> > > > > with "unzip this" and so on NetBeans is a very attractive IDE for
> > > > > the complete beginner and an installer lowers the barrier to them
> > > > > getting started with NetBeans in particular rather than
> > > > alternatives.
> > > > > I has to be frictionless - well as much as possible.
> > > > > I've tried the installer on Windows and it works very nicely.
> > > > > Constructive comment - the final screen might say something more
> > > > > to
> > > tell
> > > > > the newbie where to find NetBeans- Windows does a good job of
> > > > > hiding it unless you know its on the
> > > desktop.
> > > > > mikej
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 9:34 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> > > > >  > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now that the installer sources are in our GitHub repo:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://github.com/apache/netbeans/tree/master/nbbuild/installer
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ...thanks to Reema's work here:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/1052
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is there anything preventing us from including the installers as
> > > > > > convenience binaries as part of the 11.1 release, instead of
> > > > > > having
> > > > them
> > > > > > available as experimental installers in her repo here:
> > > > > 

Re: Installers -- making them official for 11.1?

[Geertjan Wielenga]

NetBeans runs on JDK 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12.

But that's not the point in this discussion. The discussion is about
installers -- and just to save some time here, we cannot bundle the JDK
with NetBeans into an installer and then distribute that installer from
Apache because the JDK is GPL licensed, which means it cannot be
distributed from Apache because of Apache's licensing restrictions.

Gj


On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 4:17 PM Mark Ferguson 
wrote:

>  Hi guys, great job.  I follow, but not too good at helping (yet).
> JDK 8 would be a good idea I think.  Build up asap to latest.Do many use
>  methinks.
> On Thursday, 30 May 2019, 14:09:45 GMT, Geertjan Wielenga <
> geert...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>  OK, let's target beginners. Hmmm which JDK should we focus on? How do
> we decide? There's no way to decide, we cannot decide for beginners or
> anyone else which JDK they should use. No other tool or IDE can do that
> either.
>
> Gj
>
> On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 4:07 PM mike james 
> wrote:
>
> > See I told you it was confusing.
> > I know I'm going on about beginners a lot but you really do need to
> target
> > them.
> > You have got the experienced seasoned user and they aren't going anywhere
> > unless
> > there is a really good reason but the future is in the beginner. If they
> go
> > off to IntelliJ, Eclipse or
> > Visual Studio Code because they sound trendy and have a one click install
> > you have lost the future.
> > mikej
> >
> > On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 2:28 PM Eduardo Quintanilla <
> equintani...@bnext.mx
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I would recommend reading the Java Is Still Free document
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nFGazvrCvHMZJgFstlbzoHjpAVwv5DEdnaBr_5pKuHo/edit?usp=sharing
> > >
> > > From  that document
> > >
> > > Free Builds for Linux, Windows, Mac, etc. [OpenJDK, no commercial
> > support]:
> > >
> > > AdoptOpenJDK (commercial support also available by IBM and jClarity)
> > > https://adoptopenjdk.net/
> > >
> > > 
> > >
> >
>

Re: Installers -- making them official for 11.1?

[Geertjan Wielenga]

OK, let's target beginners. Hmmm which JDK should we focus on? How do
we decide? There's no way to decide, we cannot decide for beginners or
anyone else which JDK they should use. No other tool or IDE can do that
either.

Gj

On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 4:07 PM mike james 
wrote:

> See I told you it was confusing.
> I know I'm going on about beginners a lot but you really do need to target
> them.
> You have got the experienced seasoned user and they aren't going anywhere
> unless
> there is a really good reason but the future is in the beginner. If they go
> off to IntelliJ, Eclipse or
> Visual Studio Code because they sound trendy and have a one click install
> you have lost the future.
> mikej
>
> On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 2:28 PM Eduardo Quintanilla  >
> wrote:
>
> > I would recommend reading the Java Is Still Free document
> >
> >
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nFGazvrCvHMZJgFstlbzoHjpAVwv5DEdnaBr_5pKuHo/edit?usp=sharing
> >
> > From  that document
> >
> > Free Builds for Linux, Windows, Mac, etc. [OpenJDK, no commercial
> support]:
> >
> > AdoptOpenJDK (commercial support also available by IBM and jClarity)
> > https://adoptopenjdk.net/
> >
> > 
> >
>

Re: Installers -- making them official for 11.1?

[mike james]

See I told you it was confusing.
I know I'm going on about beginners a lot but you really do need to target
them.
You have got the experienced seasoned user and they aren't going anywhere
unless
there is a really good reason but the future is in the beginner. If they go
off to IntelliJ, Eclipse or
Visual Studio Code because they sound trendy and have a one click install
you have lost the future.
mikej

On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 2:28 PM Eduardo Quintanilla 
wrote:

> I would recommend reading the Java Is Still Free document
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nFGazvrCvHMZJgFstlbzoHjpAVwv5DEdnaBr_5pKuHo/edit?usp=sharing
>
> From  that document
>
> Free Builds for Linux, Windows, Mac, etc. [OpenJDK, no commercial support]:
>
> AdoptOpenJDK (commercial support also available by IBM and jClarity)
> https://adoptopenjdk.net/
>
> 
>

Re: Installers -- making them official for 11.1?

[Geertjan Wielenga]

But there's several more, e.g., off the top of my head, Pivotal has one and
there's also JetBrains Runtime.

Gj

On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 3:28 PM Eduardo Quintanilla 
wrote:

> I would recommend reading the Java Is Still Free document
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nFGazvrCvHMZJgFstlbzoHjpAVwv5DEdnaBr_5pKuHo/edit?usp=sharing
>
> From  that document
>
> Free Builds for Linux, Windows, Mac, etc. [OpenJDK, no commercial support]:
>
> AdoptOpenJDK (commercial support also available by IBM and jClarity)
> https://adoptopenjdk.net/
>
>
> Amazon Corretto
> https://aws.amazon.com/corretto/
>
>
> Azul Zulu (commercial support also available)
> https://www.azul.com/downloads/zulu/
>
>
> BellSoft Liberica JDK (commercial support also available)
> https://bell-sw.com/java.html
>
>
> Oracle OpenJDK build
> http://jdk.java.net/
>
> SapMachine
> http://sapmachine.io
>
> Best regards,
>
> Eduardo Quintanilla
> Software Developer
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Geertjan Wielenga 
> Sent: jueves, 30 de mayo de 2019 6:00 a. m.
> To: dev 
> Subject: Re: Installers -- making them official for 11.1?
>
> Sure, though the question will be 'which JDK'. :-) There's about a dozen
> of them right now.
>
> Gj
>
> On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 12:52 PM Patrick Musembi 
> wrote:
>
> > Can we also provide a link for downloading jdk if there is no jdk
> > installed mainly because of non-java developers.
> >
> > On Thu, May 30, 2019, 13:22 Geertjan Wielenga 
> wrote:
> >
> > > Excellent, thank you for this feedback.
> > >
> > > More from others, welcome.
> > >
> > > Gj
> > >
> > > On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 11:55 AM mike james <
> > mike.ja...@infomaxgroup.co.uk
> > > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi
> > > > I'm new so tell me if I'm doing something wrong/odd.
> > > >
> > > > Can I just say that while experienced programmers have no problems
> > > > with "unzip this" and so on NetBeans is a very attractive IDE for
> > > > the complete beginner and an installer lowers the barrier to them
> > > > getting started with NetBeans in particular rather than
> > > alternatives.
> > > > I has to be frictionless - well as much as possible.
> > > > I've tried the installer on Windows and it works very nicely.
> > > > Constructive comment - the final screen might say something more
> > > > to
> > tell
> > > > the newbie where to find NetBeans- Windows does a good job of
> > > > hiding it unless you know its on the
> > desktop.
> > > > mikej
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 9:34 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> > > >  > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > Now that the installer sources are in our GitHub repo:
> > > > >
> > > > > https://github.com/apache/netbeans/tree/master/nbbuild/installer
> > > > >
> > > > > ...thanks to Reema's work here:
> > > > >
> > > > > https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/1052
> > > > >
> > > > > Is there anything preventing us from including the installers as
> > > > > convenience binaries as part of the 11.1 release, instead of
> > > > > having
> > > them
> > > > > available as experimental installers in her repo here:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > https://github.com/rtaneja1/incubator-netbeans/tree/installer-bin-11vc
> > 4/nbbuild/installer/binaries
> > > > >
> > > > > Hope so, would be excellent -- the missing official installers
> > > > > is
> > > > probably
> > > > > our most requested feature. :-)
> > > > >
> > > > > Gj
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
> which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
> taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
> entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received
> this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any
> computer.
> La información transmitida está destinada únicamente a la persona o
> entidad a quien que va dirigida y puede contener información confidencial
> y/o material privilegiado. Cualquier revisión, retransmisión, difusión u
> otros usos, o cualquier acción tomada por personas o entidades distintas al
> destinatario basándose en esta información está prohibida. Si usted recibe
> este mensaje por error, por favor contacte al remitente y elimine el
> material de cualquier computadora.
>

Re: Installers -- making them official for 11.1?

[mike james]

It is exactly this sort of confusion that makes it tougher for beginners to
get started.
I tried to help a beginner recently and I got confuse too :-)
If I remember correctly the old installer checked for an installation and
told you want to do if it didn't find one.
I think the current installer installed a jre (I think I noticed it go
past).
mikej

On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 11:59 AM Geertjan Wielenga 
wrote:

> Sure, though the question will be 'which JDK'. :-) There's about a dozen of
> them right now.
>
> Gj
>
> On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 12:52 PM Patrick Musembi 
> wrote:
>
> > Can we also provide a link for downloading jdk if there is no jdk
> installed
> > mainly because of non-java developers.
> >
> > On Thu, May 30, 2019, 13:22 Geertjan Wielenga 
> wrote:
> >
> > > Excellent, thank you for this feedback.
> > >
> > > More from others, welcome.
> > >
> > > Gj
> > >
> > > On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 11:55 AM mike james <
> > mike.ja...@infomaxgroup.co.uk
> > > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi
> > > > I'm new so tell me if I'm doing something wrong/odd.
> > > >
> > > > Can I just say that while experienced programmers have no problems
> with
> > > > "unzip this" and so on
> > > > NetBeans is a very attractive IDE for the complete beginner and an
> > > > installer lowers the barrier to
> > > > them getting started with NetBeans in particular rather than
> > > alternatives.
> > > > I has to be frictionless - well as much as possible.
> > > > I've tried the installer on Windows and it works very nicely.
> > > > Constructive comment - the final screen might say something more to
> > tell
> > > > the newbie where to find NetBeans-
> > > > Windows does a good job of hiding it unless you know its on the
> > desktop.
> > > > mikej
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 9:34 AM Geertjan Wielenga <
> geert...@apache.org
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > Now that the installer sources are in our GitHub repo:
> > > > >
> > > > > https://github.com/apache/netbeans/tree/master/nbbuild/installer
> > > > >
> > > > > ...thanks to Reema's work here:
> > > > >
> > > > > https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/1052
> > > > >
> > > > > Is there anything preventing us from including the installers as
> > > > > convenience binaries as part of the 11.1 release, instead of having
> > > them
> > > > > available as experimental installers in her repo here:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://github.com/rtaneja1/incubator-netbeans/tree/installer-bin-11vc4/nbbuild/installer/binaries
> > > > >
> > > > > Hope so, would be excellent -- the missing official installers is
> > > > probably
> > > > > our most requested feature. :-)
> > > > >
> > > > > Gj
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: Installers -- making them official for 11.1?

[mike james]

Hi
I'm new so tell me if I'm doing something wrong/odd.

Can I just say that while experienced programmers have no problems with
"unzip this" and so on
NetBeans is a very attractive IDE for the complete beginner and an
installer lowers the barrier to
them getting started with NetBeans in particular rather than alternatives.
I has to be frictionless - well as much as possible.
I've tried the installer on Windows and it works very nicely.
Constructive comment - the final screen might say something more to tell
the newbie where to find NetBeans-
Windows does a good job of hiding it unless you know its on the desktop.
mikej

On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 9:34 AM Geertjan Wielenga 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Now that the installer sources are in our GitHub repo:
>
> https://github.com/apache/netbeans/tree/master/nbbuild/installer
>
> ...thanks to Reema's work here:
>
> https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/1052
>
> Is there anything preventing us from including the installers as
> convenience binaries as part of the 11.1 release, instead of having them
> available as experimental installers in her repo here:
>
>
> https://github.com/rtaneja1/incubator-netbeans/tree/installer-bin-11vc4/nbbuild/installer/binaries
>
> Hope so, would be excellent -- the missing official installers is probably
> our most requested feature. :-)
>
> Gj
>