date:20130327

Online again.

somehow fs decided to go r/o, which caused mysql and pam to stop, requiring
the knife method for reboot. After reboot part of the config was lost (raw
devices), which I created again.

Infra politely reminded me, that there are
   - 91 packages that can be updated
   and some security patches (no details listed in this mail)

I thought some of the others took care of that, as they used to (I have
just heard that I am the only aoo with access, because the others havent
asked for it yet) ?

If I am really the only one caring for our mwiki, I agree with rob´s
concern about a single person being a risk !!

Any thought on how we can remedy this situation ?

rgds
jan I.


On 28 March 2013 02:13, Alexandro Colorado  wrote:

> ah spoke too soon, it was the cache talking
>
>
> On 3/27/13, Alexandro Colorado  wrote:
> > I am able to access it.
> >
> > On 3/27/13, janI  wrote:
> >> hi.
> >>
> >> I just got an alert that wiki is down (1 night in spain), and it seems
> to
> >> have a severe problem, prohibiting me from doing sudo and restoring it.
> >> The
> >> people at infra-root who have backdoor access is not available on irc at
> >> the moment, so I hope they will notice during the next hours. I need
> them
> >> to reboot, because a lot of services simply stopped running (incl. pam
> >> and
> >> mysql).
> >>
> >> I will check on the situation in the morning (about 8 hours from now).
> >>
> >> rgds
> >> jan I.
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Alexandro Colorado
> > Apache OpenOffice Contributor
> > http://es.openoffice.org
> >
>
>
> --
> Alexandro Colorado
> Apache OpenOffice Contributor
> http://es.openoffice.org
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: questions about Base---do we need an embedded DB?

2013-03-27 Thread Keith N. McKenna


Kay Schenk wrote:

On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 11:01 AM, Donald Whytock  wrote:


Just tossing this out...It seems Apache Derby is the one SQL-based
DBMS in the Foundation.  It's actively maintained, and, while it's
written in Java, it still works in a client/server model and is
therefore probably launchable.

Since it's in the family and all, perhaps it can be bundled with OOo,
if Base can be structured to use it?

Don



Well Derby does seem to be "embed-able ". See:

http://db.apache.org/derby/papers/DerbyTut/embedded_intro.html

This has been suggested before, as early as 2006. See:

http://markmail.org/message/kp5n2d5yzhprgpjm

Still, is any embedded DB  a good thing? Pros and cons...



Kay;

The answer depends on one's point of view Kay. For me having the 
embedded db was one of the reasons I chose to go with OpenOffice when I 
was researching replacements for Microsoft Works. I wanted to learn more 
about relational databases and it saved me from adding yet one more 
application to my system.


The advantage I see of having it is that it is available for those times 
that it is needed. For the secretary of a club or small association that 
needs to keep track of members and send mailings, or the individual who 
wants to track his cd collection or his private library.


Then there is the support issue of what do we do for those people that 
have used it and then do not have it anymore. This is not only a support 
issue, but could become a marketing nightmare as well. I can see the 
blog posts and more now about how AOO has taken away functionality. 
Whether it is fud or not, the negative publicity will have an effect on 
people.


Regards
Keith


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Re: wiki.openoffice.org is down, and pam is not runing so sudo is not possible.

ah spoke too soon, it was the cache talking


On 3/27/13, Alexandro Colorado  wrote:
> I am able to access it.
>
> On 3/27/13, janI  wrote:
>> hi.
>>
>> I just got an alert that wiki is down (1 night in spain), and it seems to
>> have a severe problem, prohibiting me from doing sudo and restoring it.
>> The
>> people at infra-root who have backdoor access is not available on irc at
>> the moment, so I hope they will notice during the next hours. I need them
>> to reboot, because a lot of services simply stopped running (incl. pam
>> and
>> mysql).
>>
>> I will check on the situation in the morning (about 8 hours from now).
>>
>> rgds
>> jan I.
>>
>
>
> --
> Alexandro Colorado
> Apache OpenOffice Contributor
> http://es.openoffice.org
>


-- 
Alexandro Colorado
Apache OpenOffice Contributor
http://es.openoffice.org

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Re: wiki.openoffice.org is down, and pam is not runing so sudo is not possible.

I am able to access it.

On 3/27/13, janI  wrote:
> hi.
>
> I just got an alert that wiki is down (1 night in spain), and it seems to
> have a severe problem, prohibiting me from doing sudo and restoring it. The
> people at infra-root who have backdoor access is not available on irc at
> the moment, so I hope they will notice during the next hours. I need them
> to reboot, because a lot of services simply stopped running (incl. pam and
> mysql).
>
> I will check on the situation in the morning (about 8 hours from now).
>
> rgds
> jan I.
>


-- 
Alexandro Colorado
Apache OpenOffice Contributor
http://es.openoffice.org

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wiki.openoffice.org is down, and pam is not runing so sudo is not possible.

hi.

I just got an alert that wiki is down (1 night in spain), and it seems to
have a severe problem, prohibiting me from doing sudo and restoring it. The
people at infra-root who have backdoor access is not available on irc at
the moment, so I hope they will notice during the next hours. I need them
to reboot, because a lot of services simply stopped running (incl. pam and
mysql).

I will check on the situation in the morning (about 8 hours from now).

rgds
jan I.

Re: questions about Base---do we need an embedded DB?

2013-03-27 Thread Kay Schenk

On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Rony G. Flatscher
wrote:

>
> On 27.03.2013 21:57, Kay Schenk wrote:
> > On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 11:01 AM, Donald Whytock 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Just tossing this out...It seems Apache Derby is the one SQL-based
> >> DBMS in the Foundation.  It's actively maintained, and, while it's
> >> written in Java, it still works in a client/server model and is
> >> therefore probably launchable.
> >>
> >> Since it's in the family and all, perhaps it can be bundled with OOo,
> >> if Base can be structured to use it?
> >>
> >> Don
> >>
> > Well Derby does seem to be "embed-able ". See:
> >
> > http://db.apache.org/derby/papers/DerbyTut/embedded_intro.html
> >
> > This has been suggested before, as early as 2006. See:
> >
> > http://markmail.org/message/kp5n2d5yzhprgpjm
> >
> > Still, is any embedded DB  a good thing? Pros and cons...
> Yes, it is a good thing, actually a very good thing!
> :)
>
> OTOH, removing the embedded database feature from AOO is really, really a
> *bad thing* for many
> reasons...
>
> ---rony
>
> P.S.: Not sure why hsqldb () does not suffice anymore
> for an embedded database?
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
Please see several threads on the java7 and hsqldb issues. In my particular
test build, using hsqldb 2.2.9 for a build with Oracle java 7 does not
produce acceptable results either.

Some further information:

http://markmail.org/message/kswggpb4cz3gmscg

many of these issues came to light with the common use of java7 by users.
If you do a search with "java7" many more issues will arise. Or look in BZ.

As others have pointed out, we really have no dedicated developers in the
DB area, and we can't expect users to be stuck with an outdated java just
to run AOO. So, that's the story.

-- 

MzK

"Achieving happiness requires the right combination of Zen and Zin."

Re: Introduction

2013-03-27 Thread Erik Schwab

Thanks for the welcome! I've joined the doc list and I'll check out the
wiki page.


On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Alexandro Colorado  wrote:

> Welcome there are many needs to update the guides for OpenOffice 4.0
> and would be interested to have your writing skills.
>
> If you look into the documentation wiki page you will see many guides
> that are somewhat outdated as theiy point back to 3.3 version. The
> task is create a user guide for the new 4.0 since 3.4.1 its already a
> bit late and we are looking forward for 4.0.
>
> There are other related tasks which you can help including a
> development guide, marking up pages on the wiki and do some spring
> cleaning for old documents.
>
> Make sure you are in the documentation mailing list at
> d...@openoffice.apache.org
>
> On 3/27/13, Erik Schwab  wrote:
> > Hi, I'm Erik. I live in Seattle. I'm interested in documentation -- I've
> > been a technical editor, medical editor, copyeditor, proofreader, and
> > composition teacher for many years in various fields, most recently
> > biomedical research. Although I've worked on various kinds of
> > documentation, I've done little with software documentation, and so I'm
> > interested in getting my feet wet here with editing or writing or both.
> >
> > Currently reading through the volunteer modules and getting inspired.
> Nice
> > to meet you!
> >
> > Regards,
> > Erik Schwab
> >
>
>
> --
> Alexandro Colorado
> Apache OpenOffice Contributor
> http://es.openoffice.org
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: How to get mimetype at first position in the zip-container?

2013-03-27 Thread Regina Henschel


Hi all,

OK, I found a solution: I first generate a zip-container with the 
command line version of 7z, which contains only the file mimetype. The 
command line version of 7z can do this without compressing the file. And 
in the second step I use Windows7 itself and simple drag the files and 
folders to that zip-container. Windows7 treats zip-container nearly like 
folders.


Kind regards
Regina



Regina Henschel schrieb:

Hi all,

when I open a .odp file with 7z, I can edit the content.xml with an
editor. The file is then updated inside the zip-container. But 7z orders
the files and folders alphabetically and therefore the file mimetype is
no longer at first position.

I have already tried to add the files and folders one by one. But 7z
does not keep the order in which the files are added to the container,
but still sort them alphabetically.

Apache OpenOffice itself is tolerant and opens the file nevertheless.
But the file is not valid. I cannot use AOO to save the file, which
would bring the parts in the correct order, because AOO alters the
content when saving and my changes are lost.

Does anyone know, how I can pack the parts, so that it will be a valid
ODF zip-container?

Kind regards
Regina

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Re: questions about Base---do we need an embedded DB?

2013-03-27 Thread Rony G. Flatscher


On 27.03.2013 21:57, Kay Schenk wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 11:01 AM, Donald Whytock  wrote:
>
>> Just tossing this out...It seems Apache Derby is the one SQL-based
>> DBMS in the Foundation.  It's actively maintained, and, while it's
>> written in Java, it still works in a client/server model and is
>> therefore probably launchable.
>>
>> Since it's in the family and all, perhaps it can be bundled with OOo,
>> if Base can be structured to use it?
>>
>> Don
>>
> Well Derby does seem to be "embed-able ". See:
>
> http://db.apache.org/derby/papers/DerbyTut/embedded_intro.html
>
> This has been suggested before, as early as 2006. See:
>
> http://markmail.org/message/kp5n2d5yzhprgpjm
>
> Still, is any embedded DB  a good thing? Pros and cons...
Yes, it is a good thing, actually a very good thing!
:)

OTOH, removing the embedded database feature from AOO is really, really a *bad 
thing* for many
reasons...

---rony

P.S.: Not sure why hsqldb () does not suffice anymore for 
an embedded database?


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How to get mimetype at first position in the zip-container?

2013-03-27 Thread Regina Henschel


Hi all,

when I open a .odp file with 7z, I can edit the content.xml with an 
editor. The file is then updated inside the zip-container. But 7z orders 
the files and folders alphabetically and therefore the file mimetype is 
no longer at first position.


I have already tried to add the files and folders one by one. But 7z 
does not keep the order in which the files are added to the container, 
but still sort them alphabetically.


Apache OpenOffice itself is tolerant and opens the file nevertheless. 
But the file is not valid. I cannot use AOO to save the file, which 
would bring the parts in the correct order, because AOO alters the 
content when saving and my changes are lost.


Does anyone know, how I can pack the parts, so that it will be a valid 
ODF zip-container?


Kind regards
Regina

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Re: questions about Base---do we need an embedded DB?

2013-03-27 Thread Fred Ollinger

What was the original problem that we are trying to solve?

>From what I can gather we have no idea how many people use Base.
There's speculation that it's small, but unless it's measured, what
does this mean? Also, there are some people who think that Base works
for them and that it's critical for them to have.

Perhaps things are good as is regarding the db?

Fred

On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 1:57 PM, Kay Schenk  wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 11:01 AM, Donald Whytock  wrote:
>
>> Just tossing this out...It seems Apache Derby is the one SQL-based
>> DBMS in the Foundation.  It's actively maintained, and, while it's
>> written in Java, it still works in a client/server model and is
>> therefore probably launchable.
>>
>> Since it's in the family and all, perhaps it can be bundled with OOo,
>> if Base can be structured to use it?
>>
>> Don
>>
>
> Well Derby does seem to be "embed-able ". See:
>
> http://db.apache.org/derby/papers/DerbyTut/embedded_intro.html
>
> This has been suggested before, as early as 2006. See:
>
> http://markmail.org/message/kp5n2d5yzhprgpjm
>
> Still, is any embedded DB  a good thing? Pros and cons...
>
>
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> 
> MzK
>
> "Achieving happiness requires the right combination of Zen and Zin."

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Re: Introduction

Welcome there are many needs to update the guides for OpenOffice 4.0
and would be interested to have your writing skills.

If you look into the documentation wiki page you will see many guides
that are somewhat outdated as theiy point back to 3.3 version. The
task is create a user guide for the new 4.0 since 3.4.1 its already a
bit late and we are looking forward for 4.0.

There are other related tasks which you can help including a
development guide, marking up pages on the wiki and do some spring
cleaning for old documents.

Make sure you are in the documentation mailing list at 
d...@openoffice.apache.org

On 3/27/13, Erik Schwab  wrote:
> Hi, I'm Erik. I live in Seattle. I'm interested in documentation -- I've
> been a technical editor, medical editor, copyeditor, proofreader, and
> composition teacher for many years in various fields, most recently
> biomedical research. Although I've worked on various kinds of
> documentation, I've done little with software documentation, and so I'm
> interested in getting my feet wet here with editing or writing or both.
>
> Currently reading through the volunteer modules and getting inspired. Nice
> to meet you!
>
> Regards,
> Erik Schwab
>

-- 
Alexandro Colorado
Apache OpenOffice Contributor
http://es.openoffice.org

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Re: questions about Base---do we need an embedded DB?

2013-03-27 Thread Kay Schenk

On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 11:01 AM, Donald Whytock  wrote:

> Just tossing this out...It seems Apache Derby is the one SQL-based
> DBMS in the Foundation.  It's actively maintained, and, while it's
> written in Java, it still works in a client/server model and is
> therefore probably launchable.
>
> Since it's in the family and all, perhaps it can be bundled with OOo,
> if Base can be structured to use it?
>
> Don
>

Well Derby does seem to be "embed-able ". See:

http://db.apache.org/derby/papers/DerbyTut/embedded_intro.html

This has been suggested before, as early as 2006. See:

http://markmail.org/message/kp5n2d5yzhprgpjm

Still, is any embedded DB  a good thing? Pros and cons...


> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>


-- 

MzK

"Achieving happiness requires the right combination of Zen and Zin."

Introduction

2013-03-27 Thread Erik Schwab

Hi, I'm Erik. I live in Seattle. I'm interested in documentation -- I've
been a technical editor, medical editor, copyeditor, proofreader, and
composition teacher for many years in various fields, most recently
biomedical research. Although I've worked on various kinds of
documentation, I've done little with software documentation, and so I'm
interested in getting my feet wet here with editing or writing or both.

Currently reading through the volunteer modules and getting inspired. Nice
to meet you!

Regards,
Erik Schwab

Fwd: Now Accepting Applications for Mentoring Organizations for GSoC 2013

Last 48 hours to deadline, I suggest to verify with Apache that everything
has been comited and avoid dropping the ball.

-- Forwarded message --
From: Carol Smith 
Date: Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: Now Accepting Applications for Mentoring Organizations for
GSoC 2013
To: Google Summer of Code Discuss <
google-summer-of-code-disc...@googlegroups.com>


Hi there,

This is just a friendly reminder that there are just about 48 hours left
until the application deadline for the mentoring organization applications
for this year. Please submit soon, we will not accept late applications for
any reason!

Thanks,
Carol


On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Carol Smith  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> We're pleased to announce that applications for mentoring organizations
> for Google Summer of Code 2013 are now being accepted [1]. If you'd like to
> apply to be a mentoring organization you can do so via Melange [2]. If you
> have questions about how to use Melange, please see our User's Guide [3].
>
> Please note that the application period [4] closes on 29 March at 19:00
> UTC [5]. We will not accept any late applications for any reason.
>
> [1] -
> http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2013/03/mentoring-organization-applications-now.html
> [2] - http://www.google-melange.com
> [3] - http://en.flossmanuals.net/melange/
> [4] - http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/events/google/gsoc2013
> [5] - http://goo.gl/xmQMJ
>
> Cheers,
> Carol
>

 --
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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-- 
Alexandro Colorado
Apache OpenOffice Contributor
http://es.openoffice.org

Re: Update source code

2013-03-27 Thread jorge ivan poot diaz

I want to update the source code AOO.
How I can do this?


2013/3/27 jorge ivan poot diaz 

>
> Hello
> I want to update the source code.
> I'm working on ubuntu:
> Distributor ID:Ubuntu
> Description:Ubuntu 12.04.1 LTS
> Release:12.04
> Codename:precise
>
> How I can do this?
>
> Help me.
>
> Regards
>

Update source code

2013-03-27 Thread jorge ivan poot diaz

Hello
I want to update the source code.
I'm working on ubuntu:
Distributor ID:Ubuntu
Description:Ubuntu 12.04.1 LTS
Release:12.04
Codename:precise

How I can do this?

Help me.

Regards

Re: questions about Base---do we need an embedded DB?

2013-03-27 Thread Donald Whytock

Just tossing this out...It seems Apache Derby is the one SQL-based
DBMS in the Foundation.  It's actively maintained, and, while it's
written in Java, it still works in a client/server model and is
therefore probably launchable.

Since it's in the family and all, perhaps it can be bundled with OOo,
if Base can be structured to use it?

Don

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Re: questions about Base---do we need an embedded DB?

2013-03-27 Thread Max Merbald


Hello there,

while the base module of AOO is not used all that often, it's the only 
free database software. If, for example, you want one from Microsoft you 
need to buy the very much overpriced MS Office Professional. Well, I've 
used Base already and I find it handy for my personal needs. I'm into 
registering all my books with it. I'd say the DB should be kept.


By the way, Digitale Schultasche is Digital school bag, not school bar. 
While Germany is somewhat more liberal than, e. g., the US as it comes 
to alcohol they still don't open bars in schools... :-D


Max


Am 27.03.2013 18:30, schrieb Regina Henschel:

Hi Kay,

Kay Schenk schrieb:

Well no doubt this may start a rather heated discussion.

[..]



I don't really know who the author is, but, I too, had been giving 
this a
great deal of thought. Does a user know what any of this really 
means, for
example. And, including an embedded DB like HSQL puts added 
responsibility

for that embedded DB on this project.  What if Base were strictly  a
front-end?

So, does anyone have any further insights into how many users, if any,
directly use Base to create and use their own individual DBs as 
opposed to

using the "front-end" capabilities?



I do not like the idea to drop the embedded DB. It is a nice feature, 
when you teach pupils about database. It cannot be done with Calc or 
dBase tables, because they have no relationships between tables, and 
teaching foreign keys is essential. Using the embedded database has 
the advantage, that it is portable. Pupils can have all their work on 
a USB stick and use it at home and as school as well, without the need 
to install something or to be online. This concept is known as 
"digitale Schultasche" (digital schoolbar) here in Germany.


Kind regards
Regina


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Re: [CODE][PROPOSAL]: AOO 4.0 getting rid of the 3 layer office, part 1

2013-03-27 Thread Fernando Cassia

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Jürgen Schmidt wrote:

> On demand I can provide test builds if there are people interested to
> help with testing.
>
> Juergen
>

Great work. May I suggest you upload such test builds to some cloud drive
(GDrive, dropbox, etc) and share the url to the list? TIA!

FC

-- 
During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary
act
- George Orwell

Re: questions about Base---do we need an embedded DB?

2013-03-27 Thread Regina Henschel


Hi Kay,

Kay Schenk schrieb:

Well no doubt this may start a rather heated discussion.

[..]



I don't really know who the author is, but, I too, had been giving this a
great deal of thought. Does a user know what any of this really means, for
example. And, including an embedded DB like HSQL puts added responsibility
for that embedded DB on this project.  What if Base were  strictly  a
front-end?

So, does anyone have any further insights into how many users, if any,
directly use Base to create and use their own individual DBs as opposed to
using the "front-end" capabilities?



I do not like the idea to drop the embedded DB. It is a nice feature, 
when you teach pupils about database. It cannot be done with Calc or 
dBase tables, because they have no relationships between tables, and 
teaching foreign keys is essential. Using the embedded database has the 
advantage, that it is portable. Pupils can have all their work on a USB 
stick and use it at home and as school as well, without the need to 
install something or to be online. This concept is known as "digitale 
Schultasche" (digital schoolbar) here in Germany.


Kind regards
Regina


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Re: Open-Xchange to launch open-source, browser-based office suite

2013-03-27 Thread Andrea Pescetti


Malte Timmermann wrote:

for converting different kinds of documents, we make use of OOo in
the backend. We found and fixed some issues, and are contributing back
the patches...


Good news! Whatever way you decide to use to contribute patches (you 
already have committer access to the OpenOffice repository, after all) 
please sent a short note here when you do, or tag issues appropriately 
in Bugzilla, so that we can properly acknowledge work by the 
Open-Xchange project in the OpenOffice release notes and/or similar 
documents.


Regards,
  Andrea.

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Mobility WAS: Re: Open-Xchange to launch open-source, browser-based office suite

2013-03-27 Thread Louis Suárez-Potts

On 13-03-27, at 12:36 , Malte Timmermann  wrote:

> 
snip

> If you want to give me more details about the OOXML/ODF viewing stuff, please 
> come back on me via private email (but not the one I am using here) or 
> linkedin :)
Sure. 
Publicly available works for mobile devices include those you can download from 
the iOS app store, such as UX Write*, Symphony, FileLApp Pro—these are all 
native—and provide for viewing. Others exist, too; viewing ODF text (and some 
more than that) is not hard. Editing and then expressing as ODF is harder—and 
it remains to be seen how desirable, in full.

Personally, I argue for Good Enough. Few will do complex documents on a tablet, 
at least at this point, and so why have capabilities for that? Better to have a 
good enough approach that allows for noncomplex (but equally nontrivial) usage.

HTML does a splendid job of this—that's the approach that UX Write is taking.

Apps that utilize HTML5, such as rollApp seem to have a brilliant future but 
that's a future whose sun has not risen yet. We all know the cybersphere is 
coming (just before the Singularity which is followed by Skynet and then the 
Armageddon bodied by Arnold the Terminator), but ubiquitous fast connectivity 
is not here yet. And even in places where it does exist, such as So. Korea, how 
used *is* HTML5 for apps, as in the Web services model? Data, anyone? (not sure 
if games count.)

Others working on this—mobile editing of ODF—include, I have no doubt, those at 
Ko.GmbH, and probably also many others.

Outside of ODF, there are quite a few viewers but very few editors and even 
fewer that would seem to work well for actual people. Iv'e tried most, if not 
all. They work fine; sans keyboard, and on a plane, very nicely. With a 
keyboard, they are effectively netbooks. But here's the issue, again: You don't 
need OOo on them or in them, you just need an editor that can express ODF, in 
some useable version, so that devices fully equipped with ODF editors can 
read/write the document. 

I'll write more directly, but there is a huge market for tablets equipped with 
ODF editors. Think education in rich and poor countries (there's seemingly less 
of a difference, now), and think of the trash that would not be produced using 
thin clients—whoops, I mean, tablets.

> 
>> 
>> Oh, then there is accessibility. You remember that, yes? :-)
> 
> I remember - I had so much fun with that ;)
> 
> But honestly: Accessibility is such an important and interesting (and 
> difficult) topic that I already volunteered to take care for that inside OX 
> too…

I speculate if it would not be rather cool to have a kind of manifesto that ODF 
supporting apps and projects could agree to proclaiming the importance of 
accessibility in design and function. It's implicit in what we do and also 
explicit; but it's also not as public or broadcast as it could be, and the 
design principles seem sometimes opaque to too many.

> 
> Malte.
> 
best
louis
> 

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Re: [CODE][PROPOSAL]: AOO 4.0 getting rid of the 3 layer office, part 1


Didn't read all the replies, but anyway:

  +1.

Also good for startup-performance, if I remember correctly...

On 22.03.2013 17:15, Jürgen Schmidt wrote:

Hi,

the so called 3layer office is not really useful anymore (it was never)
and makes more problems than it helps.

I thought that AOO 4.0 would be the best time to start at least with the
necessary rework. The main idea is to use a new simplified directory
layout and tweak the necessary config file (*rc, *.ini), rpath or
similar linker flags where necessary etc. Eliminate the URE completely
because we don't really want support it as a standalone product.

I did some initial work so far and I am now able to build an office for
Windows, MacOS and Linux with a new simplified directory layout.

Windows and MacOS have already one main directory whereas on Linux we
have "openoffice" (basis layer + URE) and "openoffice4" (brand layer).

I removed all this base-link, ure-link, URE, urelib stuff and
reorganized the directories.

Example layout on Linux:
openoffice4
openoffice4/help
openoffice4/presets
openoffice4/program  -> contains basis-link/program + URE/bin + URE/lib
openoffice4/program/misc  -> former URE/share/misc -> will be removed
openoffice4/README
openoffice4/README.html
openoffice4/readmes
openoffice4/share

In general the layout becomes more equal on all platforms.

The good news is that the office work on all 3 platforms, I am able to
select Java, extensions seems to work as well. Python is not yet tested,
language packs are not yet tested and built but in general I am thinking
it will be no problem.

Advantage of this move would be a simplified structure, long term a
simplified configuration when the *rc/*.ini files are consolidated.
Easier deployment on Linux, no conflicts with an URE from LO or the
distro at all.

My idea is to continue this basic work, do further cleanup in the office
as well as the build system, do further testing including the SDK...
Still some work to do but from my point of view a useful move forward to
get rid of this complex and unnecessary 3layer stuff.

What do you think?

On demand I can provide test builds if there are people interested to
help with testing.

Juergen








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Re: Open-Xchange to launch open-source, browser-based office suite

Hi Louis,

On 27.03.2013 16:03, Louis Suárez-Potts wrote:

Hi Malte!
It's a pleasure to see you here…

I am here since the beginning of AOO - but working on other stuff, it's
quite hard to follow the lists... ;)

On 13-03-27, at 09:51 , Malte Timmermann wrote:

On 24.03.2013 18:29, Rob Weir wrote:

On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 3:14 PM, Louis Suárez-Potts wrote:

No doubt many here have already noted this:

It's interesting. One could hope for possibilities of collaboration, license
permitting.

Our code is free for anyone to use, under a permissive license. But
it is not clear to me that our code would be particularly useful to
them.

For OX Text, we actually can't use any code of OOo…

Yeah, we came to that conclusion. Alas.

But for converting different kinds of documents, we make use of OOo in the
backend. We found and fixed some issues, and are contributing back the patches…

Thanks! I was also thinking, though Rob wasn't, and maybe Dennis wasn't either, that
there are other areas where collaboration, at least of the passive sort, can help the
overall ODF and "open source" community. For instance, localizations. One
could envision establishing a set of strings that can be used in common by relevant
applications. As well, as you probably recall, we have the Oasis OIC
(interoperability/compatibility) TC. Would be great to include OX Text there, at least
for starters, so that users can feel less concerned about vendor lockin.

Interop is a good point: When creating odt files, we already figured out
that ODF gives you more "choices" then it should. Result: One document
with lists and different kind off attributes looks different in AOO,
different in LO, and different in MSO. I can understand/expect the
difference between MSO and AOO/LO - but now even between AOO and LO?!

And then there are the mobile-users among us. I'm working with one very promising group that does
not use OOo technology but would be able to view/edit OOXML and ODF text; at least that's the idea.
Given the array of mobile options out there, and the fact that there is no good solution to mobiles
for enterprises, yet, and "enterprise" can include education and other public sector
efforts, I think there would be plenty of opportunity to "collaborate," if not on code
then on establishing a strong set of options that would break through the we-have-no-choice
mentality we all love to hate.

If you want to give me more details about the OOXML/ODF viewing stuff,
please come back on me via private email (but not the one I am using
here) or linkedin :)

Oh, then there is accessibility. You remember that, yes? :-)

I remember - I had so much fun with that ;)

But honestly: Accessibility is such an important and interesting (and
difficult) topic that I already volunteered to take care for that inside
OX too...

Malte.

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Re: questions about Base---do we need an embedded DB?

On 27 March 2013 17:12, Kay Schenk  wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 11:57 PM, Guy Waterval  >wrote:
>
> > Hi Andrew,
> > Hi all,
> >
> > 2013/3/27 Andrew Douglas Pitonyak 
> >
> > >
> > > I like an embedded DB for those times that I desire a small DB for
> small
> > > data that is relational.  For larger data sets, the embedded DB is
> > > insufficient.
> > >
> >
> > Indeed, end users and a lot of little structures could take profit of a
> > little DB easy to use, ie associations, sport clubs, TPE, museums,
> schools,
> > restaurants, little hotels, storekeepers, etc. Moreover, you can
> transform
> > the weakpoint in a marketing argument : why wearing shoes 45 if my size
> is
> > 40?
> >
> > A+
> > --
> > gw
> >
>
> My opinion is that users and AOO would be better served if users chose and
> installed their own small DB (one that would support some typical
> connectivity -- ODBC, JDBC) instead of AOO supplying one with the product.
> Many such good small scale DBs exist. It just seems to me that no matter
> what we have/choose now as an embedded DB, and problems that may ensue with
> it, and therefore might require future replacement, is a continual
> problematic cycle we really don't need.
>
+1, but maybe we should recommend 2 one for really small scale and one for
larger db. That way we do not have the maintenance and we do not leave the
users standing in the rain.


>
> At this point, given that we don't really know what folks re doing with
> Base. I think it would be better to do a transitional move -- take out the
> embedded DB and therefore "Create new DB" option would go away.  Let the
> front-end stuff alone.
>
+1

>
> Naturally, we would have to investigate some export mechanisms for users,
> etc to preserve the data they may already have in ODB.
>
e.g. through calc, which whould be relatively easy.

rgds
Jan  I.

>
>
>
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> 
> MzK
>
> "Achieving happiness requires the right combination of Zen and Zin."
>

Re: Open-Xchange to launch open-source, browser-based office suite


Hi Rob,

On 27.03.2013 16:20, Rob Weir wrote:

On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 11:15 AM, Malte Timmermann
 wrote:

Hi Louis,


On 24.03.2013 00:38, Louis Suárez-Potts wrote:



On 13-03-23, at 19:11 , "Dennis E. Hamilton" 
wrote:


The server is GPL and the JavaScripts that run in clients, Outlook, etc.,
are Creative Commons attribution-share-alike-noncommercial.  None of that is
Apache friendly.



Indeed; hence my wistful hope.



More information:

.
The licenses apply to different parts of the code base.

  From this

I notice that Martin Holmichel is Senior Product Manager and that Malte
Timmerman is Head of Development in Hamburg.



Quite. I am indeed sorry that both Malte and Martin chose this path but
it's quite possible they chose wisely—let's see.



Assuming that you talk about working for Open-Xchange now (instead of
staying full time OOo contributors), and not about the choice of licenses
(which OX is using for many years now):

I guess most people here know that we didn't chose to stop working on OOo
full time, but that it was purely Oracle's decisions to - let's put it this
way - not to have an OOo team anymore...

And believe me - with working for Open-Xchange now, Malte and Martin did
choose wisely :)

Like did the many other people from the former Sun/Oracle OpenOffice.org
team, who now work in the OX Hamburg team too.

Actually, these people make up a 100% of the Hamburg team. OX launched the
Hamburg site just for/with us.

OX is a nice place to work. Nice people, great product.
Open Source for a long time, now also with office productivity.

Afterwards, everybody here is happy that Oracle gave us "the opportunity" to
work for Open-Xchange on OX Documents now - nobody is looking back.



Hi Malte,

I'm glad it worked out, and that you were able to use and grow your
knowledge and experience in the same general technology area.
Documents are not going away, though we may use different tools.


Right. That's what we all believe in :)



But surely this news must be confusing to all those who have been
told, in press releases, blog posts and even on Wikipedia that most of
the OpenOffice developers went to LibreOffice?


Well, LO was always good in PR and in interpreting numbers ;)

When counting in only employed full time contributers, the truth is that 
more people went to AOO (via IBM) than to LO (via Red Hat and 
Canonical). I don't count in the 2 LO guys who left Sun many years ago.


I better don't write the concrete numbers here - but I know all the 
names, so I am confident my numbers are right. And I guess you know the 
exact numbers too.


So if you are eager to know how many Sun/Oracle OOo people Open-Xchange 
hired meanwhile (we started with a smaller team): Based on the numbers 
that I have in mind, add together the amount of people who went to 
AOO+LO, and add 50%.


Malte.



-Rob



Malte.


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Re: questions about Base---do we need an embedded DB?

2013-03-27 Thread Kay Schenk

On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 11:57 PM, Guy Waterval wrote:

> Hi Andrew,
> Hi all,
>
> 2013/3/27 Andrew Douglas Pitonyak 
>
> >
> > I like an embedded DB for those times that I desire a small DB for small
> > data that is relational.  For larger data sets, the embedded DB is
> > insufficient.
> >
>
> Indeed, end users and a lot of little structures could take profit of a
> little DB easy to use, ie associations, sport clubs, TPE, museums, schools,
> restaurants, little hotels, storekeepers, etc. Moreover, you can transform
> the weakpoint in a marketing argument : why wearing shoes 45 if my size is
> 40?
>
> A+
> --
> gw
>

My opinion is that users and AOO would be better served if users chose and
installed their own small DB (one that would support some typical
connectivity -- ODBC, JDBC) instead of AOO supplying one with the product.
Many such good small scale DBs exist. It just seems to me that no matter
what we have/choose now as an embedded DB, and problems that may ensue with
it, and therefore might require future replacement, is a continual
problematic cycle we really don't need.

At this point, given that we don't really know what folks re doing with
Base. I think it would be better to do a transitional move -- take out the
embedded DB and therefore "Create new DB" option would go away.  Let the
front-end stuff alone.

Naturally, we would have to investigate some export mechanisms for users,
etc to preserve the data they may already have in ODB.

> >
> >
>

-- 

MzK

"Achieving happiness requires the right combination of Zen and Zin."

Re: questions about Base---do we need an embedded DB?

2013-03-27 Thread Alexander Thurgood

Le 26/03/13 14:52, Rob Weir a écrit :

Hi Rob,

> Some other interesting facts, most of which we're already familiar with:
> 
> 1) Microsoft doesn't include Access in their base Office packages.  So
> on the one hand this means that most Office users don't use a
> database, or they do lightweight database work in their spreadsheet.
> On the other hand, the fact that OpenOffice has a database included is
> a distinguishing feature of OpenOffice.

Well, a check today of an upgrade offer for Office 2010 on one of my
Windows machines led me to a Microsoft Office 365 page on which it was
clearly stated that for 99 Euros, I could get a copy of MSOffice 365
Family Edition including Access.



Alex



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Re: questions about Base---do we need an embedded DB?

2013-03-27 Thread Alexander Thurgood

Le 26/03/13 00:39, Ariel Constenla-Haile a écrit :

Hi all,

> This is hard too guess. The majority of AOO users are Windows users, so
> you can asume that the "average user" that tries Base with a MS Office
> background, is looking for something like MS Access. I guess this was
> what drove Sun to create the ODB file with embedded db inside. With such
> an expectation, no wonder this average user gets frustrated with Base.
> 

Those who do use the embedded hsqldb ODB file format in France where I
live, be it with OOo, AOO, or LO, tend to be mostly associations, clubs,
individuals or other not-for-profit entities as it previously solved
their problem of not having to fork out for Access and was
cross-platform. This was certainly at least the case until Office 365
came out, for which I now see (this morning) that even the Family &
Small Business version includes Access (for Windows only, but
nonetheless interesting enough).

So, it would be worth bearing in mind also that any choice to drop
embedded database engine support would probably lead current ODB/ODF
users to switch back to MSOffice - after all, if you can have Office 365
Family for 99 Euros and install it on up to 3 different Windows PCs, why
go to the hassle of using AOO/LO/OOo ?

As for businesses that use this embedded format in France, I wouldn't
like to hazard a guess. Personally and professionally, I've only ever
used StarOffice/OOo/AOO/LO to access an external data source / db engine
/ db server.


Alex




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Re: [CODE][PROPOSAL]: AOO 4.0 getting rid of the 3 layer office, part 1

2013-03-27 Thread Andre Fischer


On 27.03.2013 15:23, Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote:

Please don't turn this into a circus like the one with the 0^0.


In this we agree :-)

While I still stand by my arguments, I see now that I should have chosen 
different words.  I have the highest respect for you and your work and 
did not intend to attack you.  Please accept my apologies.


As an explanation: I have spend considerable time on the development of 
the presenter console.  I guess I would have just liked to have been 
informed before the changes where made.


Regarding the revert: Please revert the revert.   Yes, I am convinced 
that extensions are a good thing and the concept should be used more 
often, but I think the primary reason four your change is a pragmatic 
one: fix installation problems on Linux that pose a real problem for our 
users, not handle an internal design question that no user knows about 
or cares for.  It is a workaround but it is a necessary workaround.  And 
certainly better than no fix at all.


And most importantly, as this is an Apache project, you are the one who 
is willing to invest time and energy.  I am just the guy who is 
complaining.  Therefore it is you, who has the right to make the decision.


Best regards,
Andre

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Re: Open-Xchange to launch open-source, browser-based office suite

2013-03-27 Thread Rob Weir

On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 11:15 AM, Malte Timmermann
 wrote:
> Hi Louis,
>
>
> On 24.03.2013 00:38, Louis Suárez-Potts wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 13-03-23, at 19:11 , "Dennis E. Hamilton" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The server is GPL and the JavaScripts that run in clients, Outlook, etc.,
>>> are Creative Commons attribution-share-alike-noncommercial.  None of that is
>>> Apache friendly.
>>
>>
>> Indeed; hence my wistful hope.
>>
>>>
>>> More information:
>>>
>>> .
>>> The licenses apply to different parts of the code base.
>>>
>>>  From this
>>> 
>>> I notice that Martin Holmichel is Senior Product Manager and that Malte
>>> Timmerman is Head of Development in Hamburg.
>>
>>
>> Quite. I am indeed sorry that both Malte and Martin chose this path but
>> it's quite possible they chose wisely—let's see.
>>
>
> Assuming that you talk about working for Open-Xchange now (instead of
> staying full time OOo contributors), and not about the choice of licenses
> (which OX is using for many years now):
>
> I guess most people here know that we didn't chose to stop working on OOo
> full time, but that it was purely Oracle's decisions to - let's put it this
> way - not to have an OOo team anymore...
>
> And believe me - with working for Open-Xchange now, Malte and Martin did
> choose wisely :)
>
> Like did the many other people from the former Sun/Oracle OpenOffice.org
> team, who now work in the OX Hamburg team too.
>
> Actually, these people make up a 100% of the Hamburg team. OX launched the
> Hamburg site just for/with us.
>
> OX is a nice place to work. Nice people, great product.
> Open Source for a long time, now also with office productivity.
>
> Afterwards, everybody here is happy that Oracle gave us "the opportunity" to
> work for Open-Xchange on OX Documents now - nobody is looking back.
>

Hi Malte,

I'm glad it worked out, and that you were able to use and grow your
knowledge and experience in the same general technology area.
Documents are not going away, though we may use different tools.

But surely this news must be confusing to all those who have been
told, in press releases, blog posts and even on Wikipedia that most of
the OpenOffice developers went to LibreOffice?

-Rob


> Malte.
>
>
> -
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Re: Open-Xchange to launch open-source, browser-based office suite

2013-03-27 Thread Louis Suárez-Potts


On 13-03-27, at 11:15 , Malte Timmermann  wrote:

> Hi Louis,
> 
> On 24.03.2013 00:38, Louis Suárez-Potts wrote:
>> 
>> On 13-03-23, at 19:11 , "Dennis E. Hamilton"  wrote:
>> 
>>> The server is GPL and the JavaScripts that run in clients, Outlook, etc., 
>>> are Creative Commons attribution-share-alike-noncommercial.  None of that 
>>> is Apache friendly.
>> 
>> Indeed; hence my wistful hope.
>> 
>>> 
>>> More information:
>>> 
>>> .
>>> The licenses apply to different parts of the code base.
>>> 
>>> From this 
>>> 
>>> I notice that Martin Holmichel is Senior Product Manager and that Malte 
>>> Timmerman is Head of Development in Hamburg.
>> 
>> Quite. I am indeed sorry that both Malte and Martin chose this path but it's 
>> quite possible they chose wisely—let's see.
>> 
> 
> Assuming that you talk about working for Open-Xchange now (instead of staying 
> full time OOo contributors), and not about the choice of licenses (which OX 
> is using for many years now):
> 
> I guess most people here know that we didn't chose to stop working on OOo 
> full time, but that it was purely Oracle's decisions to - let's put it this 
> way - not to have an OOo team anymore…

I'm actually laughing at your choice of words. Indeed, that was the decision, 
but in fairness to O., the seeds of self-destruction were planted early. Which 
is why I'm actually glad, if less gainfully employed, to see Apache OO and now 
Open-Xchange continue with developing the code in interesting ways.


> 
> And believe me - with working for Open-Xchange now, Malte and Martin did 
> choose wisely :)

Quite. 
> 
> Like did the many other people from the former Sun/Oracle OpenOffice.org 
> team, who now work in the OX Hamburg team too.
> 
> Actually, these people make up a 100% of the Hamburg team. OX launched the 
> Hamburg site just for/with us.
> 
Interesting.

> OX is a nice place to work. Nice people, great product.
> Open Source for a long time, now also with office productivity.
> 
> Afterwards, everybody here is happy that Oracle gave us "the opportunity" to 
> work for Open-Xchange on OX Documents now - nobody is looking back.

Right; none should. My interest is and always has been in seeing the future. 
But this is a public list, and I'd be happy to talk to old friends and 
colleagues off list. Less embarrassing, I suppose. :-)

Cheers,
Louis

> 
> Malte.
> 
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Re: Open-Xchange to launch open-source, browser-based office suite


Hi Louis,

On 24.03.2013 00:38, Louis Suárez-Potts wrote:


On 13-03-23, at 19:11 , "Dennis E. Hamilton"  wrote:


The server is GPL and the JavaScripts that run in clients, Outlook, etc., are 
Creative Commons attribution-share-alike-noncommercial.  None of that is Apache 
friendly.


Indeed; hence my wistful hope.



More information:

.
The licenses apply to different parts of the code base.

 From this 

I notice that Martin Holmichel is Senior Product Manager and that Malte 
Timmerman is Head of Development in Hamburg.


Quite. I am indeed sorry that both Malte and Martin chose this path but it's 
quite possible they chose wisely—let's see.



Assuming that you talk about working for Open-Xchange now (instead of 
staying full time OOo contributors), and not about the choice of 
licenses (which OX is using for many years now):


I guess most people here know that we didn't chose to stop working on 
OOo full time, but that it was purely Oracle's decisions to - let's put 
it this way - not to have an OOo team anymore...


And believe me - with working for Open-Xchange now, Malte and Martin did 
choose wisely :)


Like did the many other people from the former Sun/Oracle OpenOffice.org 
team, who now work in the OX Hamburg team too.


Actually, these people make up a 100% of the Hamburg team. OX launched 
the Hamburg site just for/with us.


OX is a nice place to work. Nice people, great product.
Open Source for a long time, now also with office productivity.

Afterwards, everybody here is happy that Oracle gave us "the 
opportunity" to work for Open-Xchange on OX Documents now - nobody is 
looking back.


Malte.

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Re: [CODE][PROPOSAL]: AOO 4.0 getting rid of the 3 layer office, part 1

2013-03-27 Thread Jürgen Schmidt

On 3/27/13 3:23 PM, Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 11:12:39AM +0100, Jürgen Schmidt wrote:
>> Different opinions came up and we had some discussion and you
>> pointed out that you can live with feedback. Where is exactly
>> your problem now?
> 
> I don't have any problem at all.

I glad to hear that, anything would have surprised me a little bit ;-9

> 
>> I don't think that it will help us if we react this way.
> 
> I am not reacting. Please don't turn this into a circus like the
> one with the 0^0.

sorry if I used the wrong words, I simply didn't understand why you
reverted it. And please no 0^0 circus ;-)

> 
>> Really nobody wanted that you revert anything here.
> 
> I am no native English speaker, but for the content, and the tone,
> of Andre mails, I understood he wanted his extension back:

I think it is simply a misunderstanding. Let me try to explain it.

1. you workaround an issue with pre-registered extensions by
converting and integrating the extension into the normal code.
The integration of these extensions in the normal code is a good thing
from my point of view because I see it as well as a very useful core
feature. Another option would have been to fix the pre-registered
extension issue. You decided to solve the problem by working on the
integration. Good so far.

2. Andre tried to explain that the design of for example the presenter
screen is focused of being an extension. Otherwise the design would
have been completely different and he would have used core feature
directly and different. And he saw no real benefit for the user and I
believe he wasn't aware of the linux issue with pre-registered
extensions, at least not in detail. Maybe he used the wrong words (we
are all no native speakers) but I believe he didn't wanted to revert
it at any point.

I am sure Andre will comment it as well.

> 
>> I don't see why this change should be a good thing.
> 
>> I was hoping that I would find the time in the future to fix
>> this
> 
>> Including the pre-bundled extensions into the core is a
>> workaround not a fix.
> 
>> We are still able (well until your changes) to release the
>> presenter console under Apache license
> 
>> I still don' t see the benefit of the change.
> 
>> [...] This is something that I have used several times in the
>> past and always was very glad that I had it.
> 
> And he got it back (together with the Presentation Minimizer, as
> it makes no sense to have one pre-registered extension and the
> other integrated).

+1

> 
> Again, I don't have any problem at all, nor then, nor now :)

ok good, can we revert it then because I don't see that anybody has
the time to dive deeper in the extension manager. At least when Andre
confirmed that he didn't wanted revert anything.

Juergen

> 
> 
> Regards
> 

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Re: Open-Xchange to launch open-source, browser-based office suite

2013-03-27 Thread Louis Suárez-Potts

Hi Malte!
It's a pleasure to see you here…

On 13-03-27, at 09:51 , Malte Timmermann  wrote:

> On 24.03.2013 18:29, Rob Weir wrote:
>> On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 3:14 PM, Louis Suárez-Potts  wrote:
>>> No doubt many here have already noted this: 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> It's interesting. One could hope for possibilities of collaboration, 
>>> license permitting.
>>> 
>> 
>> Our code is free for anyone to use, under a permissive license.  But
>> it is not clear to me that our code would be particularly useful to
>> them.
> 
> For OX Text, we actually can't use any code of OOo…

Yeah, we came to that conclusion. Alas.

> 
> But for converting different kinds of documents, we make use of OOo in the 
> backend. We found and fixed some issues, and are contributing back the 
> patches…

Thanks! I was also thinking, though Rob wasn't, and maybe Dennis wasn't either, 
that there are other areas where collaboration, at least of the passive sort, 
can help the overall ODF and "open source" community. For instance, 
localizations.  One could envision establishing a set of strings that can be 
used in common by relevant applications. As well, as you probably recall, we 
have the Oasis OIC (interoperability/compatibility) TC. Would be great to 
include OX Text there, at least for starters, so that users can feel less 
concerned about vendor lockin. 

And then there are the mobile-users among us. I'm working with one very 
promising group that does not use OOo technology but would be able to view/edit 
OOXML and ODF text; at least that's the idea. Given the array of mobile options 
out there, and the fact that there is no good solution to mobiles for 
enterprises, yet, and "enterprise" can include education and other public 
sector efforts, I think there would be plenty of opportunity to "collaborate," 
if not on code then on establishing a strong set of options that would break 
through the we-have-no-choice mentality we all love to hate.

Oh, then there is accessibility. You remember that, yes? :-)

> 
> Malte.

Cheers
louis

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add a feature to the document processor

2013-03-27 Thread Don Chase


may I?

Thanks...


Don

--
Don Chase
CEO & Creative Director
1.727.230.2888
1.727.455.4676


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Re: [CODE][PROPOSAL]: AOO 4.0 getting rid of the 3 layer office, part 1

On 27 March 2013 15:23, Ariel Constenla-Haile  wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 11:12:39AM +0100, Jürgen Schmidt wrote:
> > Different opinions came up and we had some discussion and you pointed
> > out that you can live with feedback. Where is exactly your problem now?
>
> I don't have any problem at all.
>
> > I don't think that it will help us if we react this way.
>
> I am not reacting. Please don't turn this into a circus like the one
> with the 0^0.
>
> > Really nobody wanted that you revert anything here.
>
> I am no native English speaker, but for the content, and the tone, of
> Andre mails, I understood he wanted his extension back:
>
For the record, you are not the only one who understood that it should be
reverted.

I think we need to a bit more careful on this list, not to demotivate
people doing a fine job.

rgds
Jan I.

>
> > I don't see why this change should be a good thing.
>
> > I was hoping that I would find the time in the future to fix this
>
> > Including the pre-bundled extensions into the core is a workaround not
> > a fix.
>
> > We are still able (well until your changes) to release the presenter
> > console under Apache license
>
> > I still don' t see the benefit of the change.
>
> > [...] This is something that I have used several times in the past and
> > always was very glad that I had it.
>
> And he got it back (together with the Presentation Minimizer, as it
> makes no sense to have one pre-registered extension and the other
> integrated).
>
> Again, I don't have any problem at all, nor then, nor now :)
>
>
> Regards
> --
> Ariel Constenla-Haile
> La Plata, Argentina
>

Re: [CODE][PROPOSAL]: AOO 4.0 getting rid of the 3 layer office, part 1

2013-03-27 Thread Ariel Constenla-Haile

On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 11:12:39AM +0100, Jürgen Schmidt wrote:
> Different opinions came up and we had some discussion and you pointed
> out that you can live with feedback. Where is exactly your problem now?

I don't have any problem at all.

> I don't think that it will help us if we react this way.

I am not reacting. Please don't turn this into a circus like the one
with the 0^0.

> Really nobody wanted that you revert anything here.

I am no native English speaker, but for the content, and the tone, of
Andre mails, I understood he wanted his extension back:

> I don't see why this change should be a good thing.

> I was hoping that I would find the time in the future to fix this

> Including the pre-bundled extensions into the core is a workaround not
> a fix.

> We are still able (well until your changes) to release the presenter
> console under Apache license

> I still don' t see the benefit of the change.

> [...] This is something that I have used several times in the past and
> always was very glad that I had it.

And he got it back (together with the Presentation Minimizer, as it
makes no sense to have one pre-registered extension and the other
integrated).

Again, I don't have any problem at all, nor then, nor now :)


Regards
-- 
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina


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Re: Open-Xchange to launch open-source, browser-based office suite