AOO Principles for Cooperation among ODF Projects
In April, Andrea Pescetti provided a great blog post on prospects for cooperative work among users with shared interest in the OpenOffice code base, Collaboration is in our DNA: https://blogs.apache.org/OOo/entry/collaboration_is_in_our_dna. That topic and related matters have been discussed from time-to-time in private discussions of the Apache OpenOffice PMC. There is agreement that it is best, and timely, to have this discussion in the entire Apache OpenOffice community. That means discussing collaboration and cooperation prospects here on dev@ openoffice.apache.org. I propose to kick that off now. - Dennis BACKGROUND AND SKETCH I am a member of the AOO PMC and also an ASF Committer. This note and the others I will offer are my personal opinions and analysis. I am *not* speaking for the PMC in any manner. I am simply expressing my suggestions on how to articulate a foundation for collaboration. This is to bootstrap a discussion that matters to the PMC, I trust, and that will be valuable to the AOO community and other on-lookers. I want to address what the aspirations of the Apache Software Foundation (ASF) are in terms of its principles and policies, and how they arise in the character of Apache projects. When I appeal to principles that are bedrock for the Apache Software Foundation, I will provide references and locations where those are presented and discussed already. The idea is to identify fundamental principles behind the framework which AOO and all ASF Projects operate within and which cooperative activities are expected to be consistent with. The idea is to use that as a basis for exploring and bootstrapping some actual cooperative activities. Here's what I see in a progression of discussions about principles and areas for action. 1. The ASF Principles on how code of others is accepted into ASF Projects and how it is respected. 2. The ASF Principles on source code and what kind of licenses are required on source code that is part of a release. 3. The possibilities for cooperation on source code that cannot be used directly in an ASF Project release and how that can be handled in distribution of binaries. The preferences for optional dependency as opposed to essential dependencies and where they apply. Dependencies that are disallowed on principle (and for which only very specific, narrow exceptions are considered, if ever). 4. Other forms of cooperation that are mutually beneficial and provide important reduction of duplicate efforts, magnified impact of contributor efforts, etc. These include security, incident reporting (bug reports) and analysis, and QA for starters. There is also one that is important to me personally and that is cooperation on interoperability assessment and documentation that expands the quality of support for ODF (and, potentially, OOXML). End-user-facing support is also a gigantic opportunity for improved support of users here and elsewhere. Developer-facing support such as hackathons, plugfests, and interop demos and cross-pollination at organized events is also opportune. 5. The prospect for some sort of federation around the openoffice.org code base and perhaps interoperable/reference ODF implementation. That's my thinking. I offer this overall sketch as context for the initial introduction of topics to follow. - Dennis - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [Q] Question about Mailarchive
Hi see inline please. On 25 June 2015 at 12:03, Mathias Röllig mroellig.n...@gmx.net wrote: Hello! Mailing lists intend to be a little private; only subsribers should read the messages. This isn't the case since mailing list will be mirrored at the internet. Apache mailing lists are pr. definition public, we try to make as much as possible public. We do have a few private mailings (each project has one), but they are to be used for matters involving people. Most mirrors hide the email addresses of senders and inside the message text. But not all. correct. A special case is bugzilla. Bugzilla not intends to be a mailing list. It seems it is a closed forum which shows sender addresses only for people who are logged in. Bugzilla posts will be streamed into a mailing list - and there is the problem. We do it with bugzilla and also with subversion. I actually do not see the problem, bugzilla/subversion are as such is also public, and anybody can go in and read the content, even without a user. Look at http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/openoffice-issues/ There is the address of the (always same) sender hidden: bugzi...@apache.org But all other email addresses are free readable. Do you think it is OK? I do. We believe in being totally open, that includes mailing addresses. If you do not want your mail address exposed, then create and use an alias. rgds jan i. Regards Mathias - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [Q] Question about Mailarchive
Hello! A special case is bugzilla. Bugzilla not intends to be a mailing list. It seems it is a closed forum which shows sender addresses only for people who are logged in. Bugzilla posts will be streamed into a mailing list - and there is the problem. We do it with bugzilla and also with subversion. I actually do not see the problem, bugzilla/subversion are as such is also public, and anybody can go in and read the content, even without a user. I do not talk about the content - only about the email addresses. And these are not public in bugzilla. Regards Mathias - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
[Q] Question about Mailarchive
Hello! Mailing lists intend to be a little private; only subsribers should read the messages. This isn't the case since mailing list will be mirrored at the internet. Most mirrors hide the email addresses of senders and inside the message text. But not all. A special case is bugzilla. Bugzilla not intends to be a mailing list. It seems it is a closed forum which shows sender addresses only for people who are logged in. Bugzilla posts will be streamed into a mailing list - and there is the problem. Look at http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/openoffice-issues/ There is the address of the (always same) sender hidden: bugzi...@apache.org But all other email addresses are free readable. Do you think it is OK? Regards Mathias - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: [Q] Question about Mailarchive
The email addresses of submitters and those who have CC'd themselves are certainly visible to anyone who creates a Bugzilla account (there are no limitations), just as to anyone who subscribes to an issues@ list or accesses an issues@ list archive. People should understand that there is no email-account privacy for email addresses used in those contexts. That applies to forums and wikis that projects operate or are affiliated with projects. (One difficulty we have is people who write to users@ without realizing they are writing to a mailing list. That does not happen too often though.) There is no policy that involves hiding of email addresses. There is a desire for transparency and also visible provenance of contributions. As Jan remarked, an alias is one semi-transparent way to contribute in a manner that does not reveal one's personal email account or identification. (Apache committers automatically have @apache.org email addresses as aliases, although they are amazingly under-used.) Folks who choose to operate anonymously will have difficulty participating in Apache Projects, although one can register an alias so long as an actual identification is recorded with the Secretary of the ASF. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Mathias Röllig [mailto:mroellig.n...@gmx.net] Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2015 05:18 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: [Q] Question about Mailarchive Hello! A special case is bugzilla. Bugzilla not intends to be a mailing list. It seems it is a closed forum which shows sender addresses only for people who are logged in. Bugzilla posts will be streamed into a mailing list - and there is the problem. We do it with bugzilla and also with subversion. I actually do not see the problem, bugzilla/subversion are as such is also public, and anybody can go in and read the content, even without a user. I do not talk about the content - only about the email addresses. And these are not public in bugzilla. Regards Mathias - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
[site] Donate via Amazon - update required
Hello AOO ppl, Amazon has phased out the old Amazon Simple Pay that we used initially to enable donations to the ASF via Amazon. The html snippet included on the AOO donate page [1] needs to be updated to match what is on the main ASF donations page [2]. It looks like the site is generated by the CMS. I can try to update it if you all don't mind that (and the CMS lets me do it); or someone else can do it. The new widget takes a little more space and is a little goofy-looking, so it would probably be best for someone with more UI skills than me to at least verify it. The donations using the old code will start failing soon so we need to get on this fairly quickly (as in the next couple of weeks). Sorry I did not give heads up sooner. I did not realize that you were maintaining a separate donations page. Phil [1] http://www.openoffice.org/donations.html [2] http://www.apache.org/foundation/contributing.html - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: [Q] Question about Mailarchive
Hello! It seems, we are talking about different things. There is no policy that involves hiding of email addresses. There is [...] Is this clear for anybody who create an account for bugzilla? Folks who choose to operate anonymously will have difficulty [...] I'm not talking about anonymity. The problem is the visibility of email addresses for spambots. - Mathias - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: AOO Principles for Cooperation among ODF Projects
On 25 June 2015 at 22:58, Dennis E. Hamilton orc...@apache.org wrote: In April, Andrea Pescetti provided a great blog post on prospects for cooperative work among users with shared interest in the OpenOffice code base, Collaboration is in our DNA: https://blogs.apache.org/OOo/entry/collaboration_is_in_our_dna. That topic and related matters have been discussed from time-to-time in private discussions of the Apache OpenOffice PMC. There is agreement that it is best, and timely, to have this discussion in the entire Apache OpenOffice community. That means discussing collaboration and cooperation prospects here on dev@ openoffice.apache.org. I propose to kick that off now. - Dennis BACKGROUND AND SKETCH I am a member of the AOO PMC and also an ASF Committer. This note and the others I will offer are my personal opinions and analysis. I am *not* speaking for the PMC in any manner. I am simply expressing my suggestions on how to articulate a foundation for collaboration. This is to bootstrap a discussion that matters to the PMC, I trust, and that will be valuable to the AOO community and other on-lookers. I want to address what the aspirations of the Apache Software Foundation (ASF) are in terms of its principles and policies, and how they arise in the character of Apache projects. When I appeal to principles that are bedrock for the Apache Software Foundation, I will provide references and locations where those are presented and discussed already. The idea is to identify fundamental principles behind the framework which AOO and all ASF Projects operate within and which cooperative activities are expected to be consistent with. The idea is to use that as a basis for exploring and bootstrapping some actual cooperative activities. Here's what I see in a progression of discussions about principles and areas for action. 1. The ASF Principles on how code of others is accepted into ASF Projects and how it is respected. 2. The ASF Principles on source code and what kind of licenses are required on source code that is part of a release. 3. The possibilities for cooperation on source code that cannot be used directly in an ASF Project release and how that can be handled in distribution of binaries. The preferences for optional dependency as opposed to essential dependencies and where they apply. Dependencies that are disallowed on principle (and for which only very specific, narrow exceptions are considered, if ever). I can follow your other points but not this one. Apache does pr rule not do binary releases. If a binary is provided it is a convenience NOT a release. Single PMC members (or others) might provide binary releases on their own behalf. This is actually a point where the AOO PMC walk on a very sharp sword, so the wording here is extremely important. I find your other point very good discussions point, so maybe we should leave the binary release for a moment. 4. Other forms of cooperation that are mutually beneficial and provide important reduction of duplicate efforts, magnified impact of contributor efforts, etc. These include security, incident reporting (bug reports) and analysis, and QA for starters. There is also one that is important to me personally and that is cooperation on interoperability assessment and documentation that expands the quality of support for ODF (and, potentially, OOXML). End-user-facing support is also a gigantic opportunity for improved support of users here and elsewhere. Developer-facing support such as hackathons, plugfests, and interop demos and cross-pollination at organized events is also opportune. This of course signals that the other part is interested in a partial cooperation. 5. The prospect for some sort of federation around the openoffice.org code base and perhaps interoperable/reference ODF implementation. That's my thinking. and good thinking it is, let us how others react, I am not a average community member in this respect. rgds jan i. I offer this overall sketch as context for the initial introduction of topics to follow. - Dennis - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: [Q] Question about Mailarchive
I don't recall seeing a privacy policy as part of creating a Bugzilla account. If you look at the home page at https://bz.apache.org/ooo/ and are logged in, notice that it shows your email address as who is logged in and who you would be logging out. On a bug page, if you click to see who is on a CC list, you will see a list of email addresses. Although names are shown for submitters, the values of those links are mailto: URLs with the email addresses, and you can also see that if you mouse-over those links. There is some obfuscation in the HTML code on those pages, so scraping the web page does not find URLs easily. For example, in the CC List for an issue, the @ is in the HTML as #64; the character code of that character. So a harvester would have to know that possibility when searching for email addresses. The address displays with @ but that is not what will be found if scanning the web page. Also, requiring that an user be logged in also inhibits most of the links and that appears to be a common Bugzilla implementation behavior. Also, I am able to see CC Lists without logging in at the AOO Bugzilla and at a non-ASF Bugzilla that I use. This obfuscation won't solve the fact that emails and archives based on the Bugzilla issues and comments on them will reveal email addresses. Those present the user-chosen name and the email address that the user employed. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Mathias Röllig [mailto:mroellig.n...@gmx.net] Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2015 16:25 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: [Q] Question about Mailarchive Hello! It seems, we are talking about different things. There is no policy that involves hiding of email addresses. There is [...] Is this clear for anybody who create an account for bugzilla? Folks who choose to operate anonymously will have difficulty [...] I'm not talking about anonymity. The problem is the visibility of email addresses for spambots. - Mathias - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: AOO Principles for Cooperation among ODF Projects
Thanks Jan, - Commenting inline to - From: jan i [mailto:j...@apache.org] Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2015 15:40 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; orc...@apache.org Subject: Re: AOO Principles for Cooperation among ODF Projects On 25 June 2015 at 22:58, Dennis E. Hamilton orc...@apache.org wrote: [ ... ] 3. The possibilities for cooperation on source code that cannot be used directly in an ASF Project release and how that can be handled in distribution of binaries. The preferences for optional dependency as opposed to essential dependencies and where they apply. Dependencies that are disallowed on principle (and for which only very specific, narrow exceptions are considered, if ever). I can follow your other points but not this one. Apache does pr rule not do binary releases. If a binary is provided it is a convenience NOT a release. Single PMC members (or others) might provide binary releases on their own behalf. This is actually a point where the AOO PMC walk on a very sharp sword, so the wording here is extremely important. I find your other point very good discussions point, so maybe we should leave the binary release for a moment. orcnote I carefully used the term distributions for binaries. I will make that more clear when we get to this. I will not speak of binary releases. I should have made that more specific. There are practices that *do* extend to binary distributions made by projects, even though they are not releases. We can get into that later. /orcnote [ ... ] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
