Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 11:44 AM, Rob Weir r...@robweir.com wrote: On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 6:03 AM, Ian Lynch ianrly...@gmail.com wrote: Sounds a bit like the Marcons for marketing in the original OO.o project. Right. But I hope it is clear to everyone that the main difference between OOo and AOO is not the lack of titles. The main difference is the lack of a large number full-time, professional developers and QA from Sun. Adding or subtracting titles, or swapping them around, does not change that. Adopting the Apache License or the MPL does not change that. Having a PMC or an Advisory Board does not change that.This is not to say that the PMC Chair is not an important role. It is. But it does not change the basic facts on the ground. So let's get this election over with and get on to dealing with the critical tasks ahead. +1 Regards, -Rob On 13 January 2015 at 09:45, RA Stehmann anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de wrote: On 12.01.2015 23:22, Louis Suárez-Potts wrote: Of course, the community could create such roles—Marketing Leads, say. Done that before, and it works fine. But I’m also keen—and I think others are, too—in keeping to a minimum bureaucratic structures. (Not because I dislike bureaucracy—I don’t, in theory, as a means of resolving differences—but because titles and roles tend to calcify, and that I don’t think anyone likes.) In the historic germanophone community we have roles called Ansprechpartner. That means a person, to whom topics can be addressed. We have Ansprechpartner (contact persons) for marketing, QA; Mac-port, website, translation etc.. So it was clear, that these persons had adopted a special responsbility, but there was no special power given to them. I think, it might be a first step, if some of the PMC members would tell, for what topic they can be a contact person. Maybe we can add this in the list of the PMC members on the website, improving transparency, like we do it for mailinglists, blog, svn, bugzilla, wiki and social media. Kind regards Michael -- Ian Ofqual Accredited Qualifications https://theingots.org/community/index.php?q=qualifications Headline points in the 2014, 2015, 2016 school league tables Baseline testing and progress measures https://theingots.org/community/Baseline_testing_info The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, Unit 4D Gagarin, Lichfield Road Industrial Estate, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 7GN. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. +44 (0)1827 305940 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Hi, On 14 Jan 2015, at 07:17, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: On 14/01/2015 jan i wrote: I decline my nomination for personal reasons and are not voteable. Copy-pasting the same remark I sent on this list about the other four, I respect your choices and your reasons not to run, but I would like to acknowledge you (and all nominees, and a couple more people) as key people to the continued success of the project. Actually, I just wrote to Jan privately and asked him to reconsider his resignation, as I believed the conditions he had put on his candidacy were difficult and that it would be better to go through the ritual of democracy, first. And looking at the future: Louis, as the only remaining candidate at this stage, do you confirm you are still a candidate, i.e., that you haven't changed your mind? Sorry for the odd question, but we've seen lots of surprises so far and before checking procedural issues for this unusual one-candidate-only election I prefer to verify that we still have a candidate. I actually have not changed my mind, though I should hope that Jan has or will; or if he does not, that others might wish to enter the election. My reason for wanting to move ahead is that I do not see what is being gained by delay or by these surprises *before* the election. The chair role is mostly an admin role; as Rob pointed out, it doesn’t magically change anything regarding the resources we have to draw upon. That’s up to us. So I’d much, much rather get on with the job of marshalling resources *as a community* and be done with this election. If we want another election, then let’s have another one; I personally have no issues with that. Regards, Andrea. Best, Louis - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
On 14/01/2015 jan i wrote: I decline my nomination for personal reasons and are not voteable. Copy-pasting the same remark I sent on this list about the other four, I respect your choices and your reasons not to run, but I would like to acknowledge you (and all nominees, and a couple more people) as key people to the continued success of the project. And looking at the future: Louis, as the only remaining candidate at this stage, do you confirm you are still a candidate, i.e., that you haven't changed your mind? Sorry for the odd question, but we've seen lots of surprises so far and before checking procedural issues for this unusual one-candidate-only election I prefer to verify that we still have a candidate. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Hi all, I am a PMC member and inactive here, I am very sorry. But I am very active in everyday life :) I changed my job 16 months ago. Now I am a member of Marumitsu Seimen Co., Ltd, http://marumitsu-seimen.com/ which produces and sells several kinds of noodle (wheat noodle, buckwheat noodle, ramen etc) As I am in charge of sales and marketing in the company, I go east and west, north and south, all over Japan, to sell noodles! :) I live in Ichinoseki, Iwate, northern part of Japan mainland, tomorrow I will go down to Tokyo and stay there for 2 days to sell noodles at Setagaya Boroichi, one of the biggest flea market in Japan. Just after the market I will go up slightly up to Kawaguchi, Saitama, next to Tokyo, and sell noodles at a department store for a week! I will miss my family very much :( Our Apache OpenOffice Japanese community members are few. I think in Japan there are many Apache OpenOffice users and a few developers. Maho Nakata, http://www.openoffice.org/porting/ ,you know him, and I have been trying to rebuild the community but we have failed so far. We have no idea, what and how should we do? So I expect PMC Chair(s) encourage PMC members to speak up and share ideas, how to develop local communities. I think Dual Chair (Two Chairs, or, Chair and Co-Chair, or whatever :) ) is a good idea. I would be comfortable with that! Thanks, khirano - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Sounds a bit like the Marcons for marketing in the original OO.o project. On 13 January 2015 at 09:45, RA Stehmann anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de wrote: On 12.01.2015 23:22, Louis Suárez-Potts wrote: Of course, the community could create such roles—Marketing Leads, say. Done that before, and it works fine. But I’m also keen—and I think others are, too—in keeping to a minimum bureaucratic structures. (Not because I dislike bureaucracy—I don’t, in theory, as a means of resolving differences—but because titles and roles tend to calcify, and that I don’t think anyone likes.) In the historic germanophone community we have roles called Ansprechpartner. That means a person, to whom topics can be addressed. We have Ansprechpartner (contact persons) for marketing, QA; Mac-port, website, translation etc.. So it was clear, that these persons had adopted a special responsbility, but there was no special power given to them. I think, it might be a first step, if some of the PMC members would tell, for what topic they can be a contact person. Maybe we can add this in the list of the PMC members on the website, improving transparency, like we do it for mailinglists, blog, svn, bugzilla, wiki and social media. Kind regards Michael -- Ian Ofqual Accredited Qualifications https://theingots.org/community/index.php?q=qualifications Headline points in the 2014, 2015, 2016 school league tables Baseline testing and progress measures https://theingots.org/community/Baseline_testing_info The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, Unit 4D Gagarin, Lichfield Road Industrial Estate, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 7GN. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. +44 (0)1827 305940
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
On 12.01.2015 23:22, Louis Suárez-Potts wrote: Of course, the community could create such roles—Marketing Leads, say. Done that before, and it works fine. But I’m also keen—and I think others are, too—in keeping to a minimum bureaucratic structures. (Not because I dislike bureaucracy—I don’t, in theory, as a means of resolving differences—but because titles and roles tend to calcify, and that I don’t think anyone likes.) In the historic germanophone community we have roles called Ansprechpartner. That means a person, to whom topics can be addressed. We have Ansprechpartner (contact persons) for marketing, QA; Mac-port, website, translation etc.. So it was clear, that these persons had adopted a special responsbility, but there was no special power given to them. I think, it might be a first step, if some of the PMC members would tell, for what topic they can be a contact person. Maybe we can add this in the list of the PMC members on the website, improving transparency, like we do it for mailinglists, blog, svn, bugzilla, wiki and social media. Kind regards Michael signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 6:03 AM, Ian Lynch ianrly...@gmail.com wrote: Sounds a bit like the Marcons for marketing in the original OO.o project. Right. But I hope it is clear to everyone that the main difference between OOo and AOO is not the lack of titles. The main difference is the lack of a large number full-time, professional developers and QA from Sun. Adding or subtracting titles, or swapping them around, does not change that. Adopting the Apache License or the MPL does not change that. Having a PMC or an Advisory Board does not change that.This is not to say that the PMC Chair is not an important role. It is. But it does not change the basic facts on the ground. So let's get this election over with and get on to dealing with the critical tasks ahead. Regards, -Rob On 13 January 2015 at 09:45, RA Stehmann anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de wrote: On 12.01.2015 23:22, Louis Suárez-Potts wrote: Of course, the community could create such roles—Marketing Leads, say. Done that before, and it works fine. But I’m also keen—and I think others are, too—in keeping to a minimum bureaucratic structures. (Not because I dislike bureaucracy—I don’t, in theory, as a means of resolving differences—but because titles and roles tend to calcify, and that I don’t think anyone likes.) In the historic germanophone community we have roles called Ansprechpartner. That means a person, to whom topics can be addressed. We have Ansprechpartner (contact persons) for marketing, QA; Mac-port, website, translation etc.. So it was clear, that these persons had adopted a special responsbility, but there was no special power given to them. I think, it might be a first step, if some of the PMC members would tell, for what topic they can be a contact person. Maybe we can add this in the list of the PMC members on the website, improving transparency, like we do it for mailinglists, blog, svn, bugzilla, wiki and social media. Kind regards Michael -- Ian Ofqual Accredited Qualifications https://theingots.org/community/index.php?q=qualifications Headline points in the 2014, 2015, 2016 school league tables Baseline testing and progress measures https://theingots.org/community/Baseline_testing_info The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, Unit 4D Gagarin, Lichfield Road Industrial Estate, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 7GN. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. +44 (0)1827 305940 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
2015-01-13 17:44 GMT+01:00 Rob Weir r...@robweir.com: On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 6:03 AM, Ian Lynch ianrly...@gmail.com wrote: Sounds a bit like the Marcons for marketing in the original OO.o project. Right. But I hope it is clear to everyone that the main difference between OOo and AOO is not the lack of titles. The main difference is the lack of a large number full-time, professional developers and QA from Sun. Adding or subtracting titles, or swapping them around, does not change that. Adopting the Apache License or the MPL does not change that. Having a PMC or an Advisory Board does not change that.This is not to say that the PMC Chair is not an important role. It is. But it does not change the basic facts on the ground. Agree 100%. So let's get this election over with and get on to dealing with the critical tasks ahead. Yea, let's vote and move on to get a signed win release and more. I mention that not only because it's a pragmatic thing, actually it's a missing piece that would help to avoid false positive issues like those we experienced with Chrome users some time ago. Roberto Regards, -Rob On 13 January 2015 at 09:45, RA Stehmann anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de wrote: On 12.01.2015 23:22, Louis Suárez-Potts wrote: Of course, the community could create such roles—Marketing Leads, say. Done that before, and it works fine. But I’m also keen—and I think others are, too—in keeping to a minimum bureaucratic structures. (Not because I dislike bureaucracy—I don’t, in theory, as a means of resolving differences—but because titles and roles tend to calcify, and that I don’t think anyone likes.) In the historic germanophone community we have roles called Ansprechpartner. That means a person, to whom topics can be addressed. We have Ansprechpartner (contact persons) for marketing, QA; Mac-port, website, translation etc.. So it was clear, that these persons had adopted a special responsbility, but there was no special power given to them. I think, it might be a first step, if some of the PMC members would tell, for what topic they can be a contact person. Maybe we can add this in the list of the PMC members on the website, improving transparency, like we do it for mailinglists, blog, svn, bugzilla, wiki and social media. Kind regards Michael -- Ian Ofqual Accredited Qualifications https://theingots.org/community/index.php?q=qualifications Headline points in the 2014, 2015, 2016 school league tables Baseline testing and progress measures https://theingots.org/community/Baseline_testing_info The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, Unit 4D Gagarin, Lichfield Road Industrial Estate, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 7GN. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. +44 (0)1827 305940 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
On 13/01/2015 RA Stehmann wrote: I think, it might be a first step, if some of the PMC members would tell, for what topic they can be a contact person. I believe you understood quite well the spirit of this discussion. Nobody cares about the titles here, it is assumption of responsibility. And ALL (not just some!) PMC members must, in my opinion at least, be ready to change into doers, as Kay calls it. It doesn't matter if one only has a couple hours per week, it is crucial to the project that we are reliable and that we are ready to make our part (considering the many different skills of course). This is the only way to grow the project. I'll keep this open for further comments about 24 hours, then I think it will be time for me to call the vote. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Am 01/13/2015 12:23 PM, schrieb Kazunari Hirano: I am a PMC member and inactive here, I am very sorry. great to see (read) you back here again. :-) Our Apache OpenOffice Japanese community members are few. I think in Japan there are many Apache OpenOffice users and a few developers. Maho Nakata, http://www.openoffice.org/porting/ ,you know him, and I have been trying to rebuild the community but we have failed so far. We have no idea, what and how should we do? OpenOffice is a large software within a large project as well. So, it can help to start with small things to see if this works. If so, then grow up with bigger things. Just 2 ideas: If you are just a few and maybe not that far away from each other, then it should be possible to do a meeting in person - face-to-face. Here you can talk about the problems and possible solutions that are special for your (Japan) local area. And then try it. After that (or in addition) also doing this in the shape of a little conference, fair, seminar, workshop, etc. to try to meet with as many OpenOffice fans as possible could be helpful. So I expect PMC Chair(s) encourage PMC members to speak up and share ideas, how to develop local communities. Don't wait for the (old|new) chair to take action. ;-) Start now yourself with stating your problems and attempts you have already done. Then we can reply to this. I think Dual Chair (Two Chairs, or, Chair and Co-Chair, or whatever :) ) is a good idea. I would be comfortable with that! Marcus - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
On 13 Jan 2015, at 18:15, Marcus marcus.m...@wtnet.de wrote: Don't wait for the (old|new) chair to take action. ;-) Start now yourself with stating your problems and attempts you have already done. Then we can reply to this. Yes! louis - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Hi Andrea asked me to wait until the discussions was ending before making a final decision, but now its time to decide. I accepted to run for chair and thereby rejoin the PMC, because I was told that the PMC had changed behavior..the discussions have made me sure that my ways of getting things done will cause the same conflicts that made me resign. I point at Louis as our new chair. I decline my nomination for personal reasons and are not voteable. I thank people who believed in me and wish the PMC good luck. rgds jan i -- Sent from My iPad, sorry for any misspellings.
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
On 12 Jan 2015, at 14:02, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: On 11/01/2015 Marcus wrote: IMHO this PMC is more quite than others inside Apache projects. So, I wouldn't see this as a sign that they won't follow you. Only direct talkings can help to judge this. It is important that the PMC understands that, according to both candidates, the way the OpenOffice PMC operated so far will have to change. This is not necessarily linked to the fact that we will have a new PMC Chair, but both candidates want to see a different PMC. I want it too! But it's just appropriate that the new PMC Chair will drive this purely internal change. And we all (the whole community, I mean) must be sure to have understood this in advance. Let me take a risk and try to summarize what either candidate would like to see changed, from their mails. And then let them expand on my summary and amend it as needed. It is very important that things are clear, so I think we can take the time to clarify it before voting. Louis is saying that the PMC Chair should use his authority to grow the project. He sees the Chair role as enabling others (rather than working in isolation or being a lead): work efficiently and collaboratively to realise our visions of Apache OpenOffice's future. We also need to focus on marketing efforts toward companies and government agencies who are already using (or considering to use) OpenOffice. Let me add, while it doesn't seem revolutionary, this view of the PMC implies quite a change: OpenOffice so far depended more on the patience and the efforts of several individuals rather than being a concerted action. Jan is saying that his main effort would be to push hard for action and changes, stop talking (as a community) and start doing. He thinks the whole OpenOffice ecosystem, including derivatives, is facing a lack of resources that requires changes in attitude. We, as OpenOffice, need to show results fast, including a 2-months restructuring of the PMC where we ask everybody to either confirm that he/she is still interested in driving the project forward, or leave the PMC. He came to the point of writing that it's useless that he runs unless the PMC understands these guidelines. So, please Louis and Jan do correct me if I summarized your intentions in a wrong way, and others please make sure you are aware of what is going to change with this vote (other than the obvious replacement of the PMC Chair). And then I'll call the vote when we are all informed enough! And thanks again to both Louis and Jan for bringing a fresh perspective, I haven't acknowledged you explicitly for it but I agree with Marcus that while we are quiet we do read and think. Anyway, it's better to be sure that we are ready to vote. Regards, Andrea. Andrea, this is an accurate and better-than-the-original summary. Thanks. I’m hoping we can have discussions on the points Jan and I have raised—as well as any others the community finds interesting. Best louis - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
On 11/01/2015 Marcus wrote: IMHO this PMC is more quite than others inside Apache projects. So, I wouldn't see this as a sign that they won't follow you. Only direct talkings can help to judge this. It is important that the PMC understands that, according to both candidates, the way the OpenOffice PMC operated so far will have to change. This is not necessarily linked to the fact that we will have a new PMC Chair, but both candidates want to see a different PMC. I want it too! But it's just appropriate that the new PMC Chair will drive this purely internal change. And we all (the whole community, I mean) must be sure to have understood this in advance. Let me take a risk and try to summarize what either candidate would like to see changed, from their mails. And then let them expand on my summary and amend it as needed. It is very important that things are clear, so I think we can take the time to clarify it before voting. Louis is saying that the PMC Chair should use his authority to grow the project. He sees the Chair role as enabling others (rather than working in isolation or being a lead): work efficiently and collaboratively to realise our visions of Apache OpenOffice's future. We also need to focus on marketing efforts toward companies and government agencies who are already using (or considering to use) OpenOffice. Let me add, while it doesn't seem revolutionary, this view of the PMC implies quite a change: OpenOffice so far depended more on the patience and the efforts of several individuals rather than being a concerted action. Jan is saying that his main effort would be to push hard for action and changes, stop talking (as a community) and start doing. He thinks the whole OpenOffice ecosystem, including derivatives, is facing a lack of resources that requires changes in attitude. We, as OpenOffice, need to show results fast, including a 2-months restructuring of the PMC where we ask everybody to either confirm that he/she is still interested in driving the project forward, or leave the PMC. He came to the point of writing that it's useless that he runs unless the PMC understands these guidelines. So, please Louis and Jan do correct me if I summarized your intentions in a wrong way, and others please make sure you are aware of what is going to change with this vote (other than the obvious replacement of the PMC Chair). And then I'll call the vote when we are all informed enough! And thanks again to both Louis and Jan for bringing a fresh perspective, I haven't acknowledged you explicitly for it but I agree with Marcus that while we are quiet we do read and think. Anyway, it's better to be sure that we are ready to vote. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
On Monday, January 12, 2015, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: On 11/01/2015 Marcus wrote: IMHO this PMC is more quite than others inside Apache projects. So, I wouldn't see this as a sign that they won't follow you. Only direct talkings can help to judge this. It is important that the PMC understands that, according to both candidates, the way the OpenOffice PMC operated so far will have to change. This is not necessarily linked to the fact that we will have a new PMC Chair, but both candidates want to see a different PMC. I want it too! But it's just appropriate that the new PMC Chair will drive this purely internal change. And we all (the whole community, I mean) must be sure to have understood this in advance. Let me take a risk and try to summarize what either candidate would like to see changed, from their mails. And then let them expand on my summary and amend it as needed. It is very important that things are clear, so I think we can take the time to clarify it before voting. Louis is saying that the PMC Chair should use his authority to grow the project. He sees the Chair role as enabling others (rather than working in isolation or being a lead): work efficiently and collaboratively to realise our visions of Apache OpenOffice's future. We also need to focus on marketing efforts toward companies and government agencies who are already using (or considering to use) OpenOffice. Let me add, while it doesn't seem revolutionary, this view of the PMC implies quite a change: OpenOffice so far depended more on the patience and the efforts of several individuals rather than being a concerted action. Jan is saying that his main effort would be to push hard for action and changes, stop talking (as a community) and start doing. He thinks the whole OpenOffice ecosystem, including derivatives, is facing a lack of resources that requires changes in attitude. We, as OpenOffice, need to show results fast, including a 2-months restructuring of the PMC where we ask everybody to either confirm that he/she is still interested in driving the project forward, or leave the PMC. He came to the point of writing that it's useless that he runs unless the PMC understands these guidelines. understand is not what I expect, I expect the PMC to actively help pursue all the changes I outlined, without expecting me to do more than push. I still have not seen any signs of PMC change (I interpret silence in this discussion as don't care) so It still seems useless to have me serve for the 2months I promised So, please Louis and Jan do correct me if I summarized your intentions in a wrong way, and others please make sure you are aware of what is going to change with this vote (other than the obvious replacement of the PMC Chair). And then I'll call the vote when we are all informed enough! And thanks again to both Louis and Jan for bringing a fresh perspective, I haven't acknowledged you explicitly for it but I agree with Marcus that while we are quiet we do read and think. Anyway, it's better to be sure that we are ready to vote. May I add something based on a private communication from 2 PMC. Those of you who think one candidate will make AOO die, so lets choose the other candidate, please discuss this in here or even better step up and ask to be nominated. rgds jan i Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org -- Sent from My iPad, sorry for any misspellings.
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Am 01/12/2015 08:02 PM, schrieb Andrea Pescetti: On 11/01/2015 Marcus wrote: IMHO this PMC is more quite than others inside Apache projects. So, I wouldn't see this as a sign that they won't follow you. Only direct talkings can help to judge this. It is important that the PMC understands that, according to both candidates, the way the OpenOffice PMC operated so far will have to change. This is not necessarily linked to the fact that we will have a new PMC Chair, but both candidates want to see a different PMC. I want it too! But it's just appropriate that the new PMC Chair will drive this purely internal change. And we all (the whole community, I mean) must be sure to have understood this in advance. Let me take a risk and try to summarize what either candidate would like to see changed, from their mails. And then let them expand on my summary and amend it as needed. It is very important that things are clear, so I think we can take the time to clarify it before voting. Louis is saying that the PMC Chair should use his authority to grow the project. He sees the Chair role as enabling others (rather than working in isolation or being a lead): work efficiently and collaboratively to realise our visions of Apache OpenOffice's future. We also need to focus on marketing efforts toward companies and government agencies who are already using (or considering to use) OpenOffice. Let me add, while it doesn't seem revolutionary, this view of the PMC implies quite a change: OpenOffice so far depended more on the patience and the efforts of several individuals rather than being a concerted action. Jan is saying that his main effort would be to push hard for action and changes, stop talking (as a community) and start doing. He thinks the whole OpenOffice ecosystem, including derivatives, is facing a lack of resources that requires changes in attitude. We, as OpenOffice, need to show results fast, including a 2-months restructuring of the PMC where we ask everybody to either confirm that he/she is still interested in driving the project forward, or leave the PMC. He came to the point of writing that it's useless that he runs unless the PMC understands these guidelines. So, please Louis and Jan do correct me if I summarized your intentions in a wrong way, and others please make sure you are aware of what is going to change with this vote (other than the obvious replacement of the PMC Chair). And then I'll call the vote when we are all informed enough! And thanks again to both Louis and Jan for bringing a fresh perspective, I haven't acknowledged you explicitly for it but I agree with Marcus that while we are quiet we do read and think. Anyway, it's better to be sure that we are ready to vote. maybe a crazy idea: When reading both summaries I think both are close to each other as both want to strengthen the community. Louis seems to focus on marketing (and to improve the look other have from the outside) and Jan is focusing more on resource improvements inside of the project. For realizing both ideas we need to improve the community and its work. So, what about to let both try to realize this as kind of dual chair? Marcus - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Sent from my iPhone On Jan 12, 2015, at 1:47 PM, Marcus marcus.m...@wtnet.de wrote: Am 01/12/2015 08:02 PM, schrieb Andrea Pescetti: On 11/01/2015 Marcus wrote: IMHO this PMC is more quite than others inside Apache projects. So, I wouldn't see this as a sign that they won't follow you. Only direct talkings can help to judge this. It is important that the PMC understands that, according to both candidates, the way the OpenOffice PMC operated so far will have to change. This is not necessarily linked to the fact that we will have a new PMC Chair, but both candidates want to see a different PMC. I want it too! But it's just appropriate that the new PMC Chair will drive this purely internal change. And we all (the whole community, I mean) must be sure to have understood this in advance. Let me take a risk and try to summarize what either candidate would like to see changed, from their mails. And then let them expand on my summary and amend it as needed. It is very important that things are clear, so I think we can take the time to clarify it before voting. Louis is saying that the PMC Chair should use his authority to grow the project. He sees the Chair role as enabling others (rather than working in isolation or being a lead): work efficiently and collaboratively to realise our visions of Apache OpenOffice's future. We also need to focus on marketing efforts toward companies and government agencies who are already using (or considering to use) OpenOffice. Let me add, while it doesn't seem revolutionary, this view of the PMC implies quite a change: OpenOffice so far depended more on the patience and the efforts of several individuals rather than being a concerted action. Jan is saying that his main effort would be to push hard for action and changes, stop talking (as a community) and start doing. He thinks the whole OpenOffice ecosystem, including derivatives, is facing a lack of resources that requires changes in attitude. We, as OpenOffice, need to show results fast, including a 2-months restructuring of the PMC where we ask everybody to either confirm that he/she is still interested in driving the project forward, or leave the PMC. He came to the point of writing that it's useless that he runs unless the PMC understands these guidelines. So, please Louis and Jan do correct me if I summarized your intentions in a wrong way, and others please make sure you are aware of what is going to change with this vote (other than the obvious replacement of the PMC Chair). And then I'll call the vote when we are all informed enough! And thanks again to both Louis and Jan for bringing a fresh perspective, I haven't acknowledged you explicitly for it but I agree with Marcus that while we are quiet we do read and think. Anyway, it's better to be sure that we are ready to vote. maybe a crazy idea: When reading both summaries I think both are close to each other as both want to strengthen the community. Louis seems to focus on marketing (and to improve the look other have from the outside) and Jan is focusing more on resource improvements inside of the project. For realizing both ideas we need to improve the community and its work. So, what about to let both try to realize this as kind of dual chair? Since the Chair at Apache is more ceremonial than THE lead in the best case then there should be nothing to preclude both Jan and Louis from scratching their itch and leading regardless of whom is the Chair. Asking inactive PMC to go emeritus can be done in any case. The merit does not expire and if willing to be active one can be restored. I have respect for both. Let the debate continue. Regards, Dave. Marcus - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
On 12 Jan 2015, at 17:02, Dave Fisher dave2w...@comcast.net wrote: So, what about to let both try to realize this as kind of dual chair? Since the Chair at Apache is more ceremonial than THE lead in the best case then there should be nothing to preclude both Jan and Louis from scratching their itch and leading regardless of whom is the Chair. The point I made earlier was that the “chair” title confers a kind of authority that we here in Apache land might find to be beside the point but others won’t. It’s not that I or anyone else, I imagine, would claim that chair equals lead. It doesn’t. But that the chair would be, in addition to the regular and normal admin role, a figure for the expansion and development of the project. Of course, the community could create such roles—Marketing Leads, say. Done that before, and it works fine. But I’m also keen—and I think others are, too—in keeping to a minimum bureaucratic structures. (Not because I dislike bureaucracy—I don’t, in theory, as a means of resolving differences—but because titles and roles tend to calcify, and that I don’t think anyone likes.) Asking inactive PMC to go emeritus can be done in any case. The merit does not expire and if willing to be active one can be restored. Right. I was going over the PMC list (http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#openoffice-pmc) and then relating those listed to participation (however defined) in the project. I’m terrible at engaging actively in the lists but equally terrible at boring people at every possible opportunity about the plusses and minuses of OpenOffice and the ODF, and now Corinthia (endless fun). So I give everyone lots of benefit of a doubt, if I missed their engagement. But I was curious why some members have dropped off—or slowed their engagement. A fair question, no? I have respect for both. Let the debate continue. Regards, Dave. Marcus ——— Cheers, Louis - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Am 01/12/2015 11:22 PM, schrieb Louis Suárez-Potts: On 12 Jan 2015, at 17:02, Dave Fisherdave2w...@comcast.net wrote: Asking inactive PMC to go emeritus can be done in any case. The merit does not expire and if willing to be active one can be restored. Right. I was going over the PMC list (http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#openoffice-pmc) and then relating those listed to participation (however defined) in the project. I’m terrible at engaging actively in the lists but equally terrible at boring people at every possible opportunity about the plusses and minuses of OpenOffice and the ODF, and now Corinthia (endless fun). So I give everyone lots of benefit of a doubt, if I missed their engagement. But I was curious why some members have dropped off—or slowed their engagement. A fair question, no? sure, but please let us separate both things. Changing the list of PMC members is different from voting for a new chair. Marcus - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
On 12 Jan 2015, at 18:00, Marcus marcus.m...@wtnet.de wrote: Am 01/12/2015 11:22 PM, schrieb Louis Suárez-Potts: On 12 Jan 2015, at 17:02, Dave Fisherdave2w...@comcast.net wrote: Asking inactive PMC to go emeritus can be done in any case. The merit does not expire and if willing to be active one can be restored. Right. I was going over the PMC list (http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#openoffice-pmc) and then relating those listed to participation (however defined) in the project. I’m terrible at engaging actively in the lists but equally terrible at boring people at every possible opportunity about the plusses and minuses of OpenOffice and the ODF, and now Corinthia (endless fun). So I give everyone lots of benefit of a doubt, if I missed their engagement. But I was curious why some members have dropped off—or slowed their engagement. A fair question, no? sure, but please let us separate both things. Changing the list of PMC members is different from voting for a new chair. Indeed. I think that one can only make changes to the PMC roster *after* an election for the chair of the current PMC :-) Marcus Cheers, louis - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
On 13 January 2015 at 00:03, Louis Suárez-Potts lui...@gmail.com wrote: On 12 Jan 2015, at 18:00, Marcus marcus.m...@wtnet.de wrote: Am 01/12/2015 11:22 PM, schrieb Louis Suárez-Potts: On 12 Jan 2015, at 17:02, Dave Fisherdave2w...@comcast.net wrote: Asking inactive PMC to go emeritus can be done in any case. The merit does not expire and if willing to be active one can be restored. Right. I was going over the PMC list ( http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#openoffice-pmc) and then relating those listed to participation (however defined) in the project. I’m terrible at engaging actively in the lists but equally terrible at boring people at every possible opportunity about the plusses and minuses of OpenOffice and the ODF, and now Corinthia (endless fun). So I give everyone lots of benefit of a doubt, if I missed their engagement. But I was curious why some members have dropped off—or slowed their engagement. A fair question, no? sure, but please let us separate both things. Changing the list of PMC members is different from voting for a new chair. Indeed. I think that one can only make changes to the PMC roster *after* an election for the chair of the current PMC :-) Agreed but remark the difference between Louis and mein my world, benefit of doubt expired long time ago. I would have a simple ruleset: any PMC who have not been been on dev@ or private@ for 3 month and - who do not react to a personal mail requestion a confirmation on private - who do not participate in the vote (implicit a function of the first rule) would be asked to asked to leave, and if no reaction, ask the board for an ACK to remove such people. Please also remark the difference in opinion about what chair is. I do not see a chair as a figure of anything, a chair is a PMC like all other PMC members. But I do accept the fact that the world as such do not always understand the apache way and to some the chair is more important. Since I am not into marketing (where the title chair matters) I have no need to be chair. Remark, whoever ends up getting elected (maybe we should really open up for new nominations), I will continue to work as usual. rgds jan i. Marcus Cheers, louis - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
On 12/01/2015 Marcus wrote: I think both are close to each other as both want to strengthen the community. Louis seems to focus on marketing (and to improve the look other have from the outside) and Jan is focusing more on resource improvements inside of the project. For realizing both ideas we need to improve the community and its work. So, what about to let both try to realize this as kind of dual chair? This is not a crazy idea at all. I mean, I'm certain that both will help, and that I will help actively too, and you Marcus, and all other active people, each in their favorite area. We will obviously need to elect one Chair, but this leaves unchanged opportunities for the others to help. The solution to what clearly is an issue (i.e., our PMC members listed at http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#openoffice-pmc are not very active or very coordinated on average) can be different. Louis wrote about facilitation, Jan wrote about action, and these are two different ways to address the issue. One very clear thing is that the PMC will no longer be passively watching the others work, in any case. So guys, be prepared to have to be active! Would you work better with a certain candidate than with another one? Do you prefer a certain style? Please use this discussion to briefly state and exchange your views, and then we will move to voting. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
On 12 Jan 2015, at 18:20, jan i j...@apache.org wrote: Remark, whoever ends up getting elected (maybe we should really open up for new nominations), I will continue to work as usual. Likewise I’ll work as … well, actually, as more than usual. :-) Also: we make what we do with what we get and what we want, and that is as true for being Chair of the PMC as anything else. cheers, louis - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
On 01/12/2015 03:32 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: On 12/01/2015 Marcus wrote: I think both are close to each other as both want to strengthen the community. Louis seems to focus on marketing (and to improve the look other have from the outside) and Jan is focusing more on resource improvements inside of the project. For realizing both ideas we need to improve the community and its work. So, what about to let both try to realize this as kind of dual chair? This is not a crazy idea at all. I mean, I'm certain that both will help, and that I will help actively too, and you Marcus, and all other active people, each in their favorite area. We will obviously need to elect one Chair, but this leaves unchanged opportunities for the others to help. The solution to what clearly is an issue (i.e., our PMC members listed at http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#openoffice-pmc are not very active or very coordinated on average) can be different. Louis wrote about facilitation, Jan wrote about action, and these are two different ways to address the issue. One very clear thing is that the PMC will no longer be passively watching the others work, in any case. So guys, be prepared to have to be active! Would you work better with a certain candidate than with another one? Do you prefer a certain style? Please use this discussion to briefly state and exchange your views, and then we will move to voting. Regards, Andrea. I don't know how PMCs in other projects operate. I only know OpenOffice because that's all I have time for. Andrea might actually be more of a do-er chair than most. He does development, he does translation, he attends many events, etc. I have not actually tallied how many of our PMC passively watch as opposed to work. It could be that those who are perceived as passive do work we are not necessarily aware of. All of us have on the PMC some notion of the kinds of resources we need at this point. Even someone who characterizes himself as a do-er can not manufacture certain elements on his own. The PMC, as a group, needs to propose a plan, and then see what can be done to actualize it. I imagine all of us have ideas about this. But Andrea's statement about PMC members not being very coordinated does have validity. Maybe this is because the project didn't start this way, being focused on resurrecting the 3.4. release of OpenOffice.org with other priorities after that. So, we really didn't start like a normal ground up project at Apache. Well I could write a book on all this, but I doubt anyone wants to read it. :) We all need to keep in mind that OpenOffice, like other Apache projects, is composed of volunteers. Louis and Jan have different perspectives. In any case we need a plan and the chair is not the only driving force. OK, this was NOT brief. My apologies for that. -- - MzK There's a bit of magic in everything, and some loss to even things out. -- Lou Reed - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
jan i wrote: he world as such do not always understand the apache way and to some the chair is more important. Since I am not into marketing (where the title chair matters) I have no need to be chair. I prefer to avoid expressing personal points of view in this discussion, but I can reply to this: after more than 2 years, almost nobody outside this list knows that I am the OpenOffice PMC Chair. I'm averse to publicity, but the title might be good for marketing only if one wants to use it, because anyway it's the PMC and not the Chair that steers the project, and the project is setup for a collective governance (like, press requests go to the press alias that routes them to the PMC, not to the Chair). This is why this discussion is important! Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Am 01/11/2015 07:00 PM, schrieb Roberto Galoppini: 2015-01-11 8:50 GMT+01:00 jan ij...@apache.org: I have during the last days had discussions with multiple PMC members, because I am puzzled or even scared about the level of engagement from the PMC in this nomination. As I wrote in my introduction, I need the backing of the PMC to carry out changes. my talks have convinced me that the PMC are unlikely to follow the path I believe in. I'm not among those PMC members who talked to you, all I knew so far was that you were available, plus all your well-known activity for AOO. Happy to talk to you if that helps, the present email doesn't help me much to understand what's going on. I don't know with whom you had some chats. IMHO this PMC is more quite than others inside Apache projects. So, I wouldn't see this as a sign that they won't follow you. Only direct talkings can help to judge this. Marcus - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Hi I have during the last days had discussions with multiple PMC members, because I am puzzled or even scared about the level of engagement from the PMC in this nomination. As I wrote in my introduction, I need the backing of the PMC to carry out changes. my talks have convinced me that the PMC are unlikely to follow the path I believe in. Please remark I am NOT saying the PMC is following a wrong road, only the future can determine that. Due to a likely conflict (remember I resigned due to this) I can only promise to serve for 2 month and a fast new election is not good for the project. Louis on the other hand seems to be accepted by the PMC and are surely also a person that has experience. I hereby recommend Louis be the new chair. I will continue supporting the project as I have the last couple of years. rgds jan i On Sunday, January 11, 2015, Louis Suárez-Potts lui...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Everybody, I’m a candidate for PMC Chair…. And more below. On 6 Jan 2015, at 13:33, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org javascript:; wrote: Each of the (current and future) nominees should answer this mail in public and state very briefly: The PMC Chair is ostensibly an administrative position. It’s certainly that, but it also vests its holder with an authority that can be used to grow the project. That, at least, is one way I should like to use it, should I be elected. If elected, I could serve for at least one year and probably more. OpenOffice has been my life for a very long time; it—the community and what it can accomplish with a free tool as powerful as OpenOffice and the ODF—is something I believe in and love. But so do we all. I don’t see myself as working in isolation or as the “lead.” Hardly; I see the role as enabling others. I have a notion of where I would like to see OpenOffice—but so do you. And so does Jan. What would be great is if we could work efficiently and collaboratively to realise our visions of Apache OpenOffice’s future. Growing the community of contributors and uses is something I have some experience doing. But what worked with OpenOffice.org, like the Native Language Projects, were created under different circumstances. AOO is not OOo: it’s more of a community effort. And it operates within the Apache Software Foundation. These are plusses and the opportunities they present to would-be contributors can be communicated to those companies and government agencies who are already using OpenOffice and those who are considering using it. We have not focused on such marketing efforts, and I would like to do so. We also need … so many other things. Updated documentation for developers, for instance; more mentoring and training (at whatever level); and so on: not news. Engaging the community that we have and that we will have is part of the fun I’d like to take on, though I’d reframe it by emphasising that it’s actually our fun. I also believe that we need to explore collaboration with The Document Foundation and LibreOffice. I’ve always argued we should. No one benefits by maintaining this split. (Oh, arguably, the proprietary products reap in yet more billions. But they would anyway.) I have no illusions about any reconciliation or collaboration. But I also believe that the overall community of users stands to gain hugely. More can be said, and I hope it is. But not now. Cheers, Louis --- Louis Suárez-Potts Age of Peers PMC Apache OpenOffice Skype: louisiam Mobile: +1.416.625.3843 Twitter: @luispo Company: http://www.ageofpeers.com/ Personal: http://www.luispo.com/ Google: https://plus.google.com/+LouisSuárezPotts/ https://plus.google.com/+LouisSu%C3%A1rezPotts/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org javascript:; For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org javascript:; -- Sent from My iPad, sorry for any misspellings.
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
On 06/01/15 19:33, Andrea Pescetti wrote: On 01/01/2015 Andrea Pescetti wrote: Let's take several days, until 10 January, to receive nominations (or self-nominations) for the next PMC Chair. Just reply to this e-mail with nominations. We have 6 nominees so far, very good since all of them would be excellent choices. I'm now asking each of them to either accept or refuse the nomination by the 10 January deadline. Nominations are still open, but if you nominate someone I'll immediately refer to this mail and ask for a statement by 10 January too. Each of the (current and future) nominees should answer this mail in public and state very briefly: 1) Whether he/she is available to run for election; the term is not set, but I expect an availability to stay in the role for at least one year. 2) Where his/her efforts will primarily be directed. 3) Regardless of whether one is running or not (and regardless of whether one is elected or not), it might be that some of the candidates wish to take responsibility for a certain area. This can be very good, since the project is huge and the Chair might miss some details. For example, Hagar often updates the draft quarterly report with information about the Forum (figures, issues...). If the Chair knows that someone commits to follow a certain area closely and to help in reporting, then reporting becomes a team work and can be much better than what we have done so far. The 6 nominees so far are, in alphabetical order: - janiJan Iversen - jsc Jürgen Schmidt - kschenk Kay Schenk - louis Louis Suarez-Potts - marcus Marcus Lange - robweir Rob Weir I'm hereby asking each of them (and any future nominees) to provide their statement by 10 January; those who already sent their statement are free to expand upon it according to the above guidelines if they wish. First of all thank you for the nomination and the trust in me that I could be a good candidate. I would have been interested for sure earlier or potentially in the future but at this time I won't be available for the election. Although I am involved in the project since the beginning and already before the source code was open sourced I have switched some priorities and my work focus a bit. I believe that I would not have enough time to help the project moving forward in the near future. I am looking forward that somebody else grows in the role of the PMC chair and takes more responsibility. My wish is that the next PMC chair will be active in the project and will help to drive things forward together with the PMC. The most important goal is to activate developers and improve the product in critical areas. Juergen Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Fwd: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 1:33 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: On 01/01/2015 Andrea Pescetti wrote: Let's take several days, until 10 January, to receive nominations (or self-nominations) for the next PMC Chair. Just reply to this e-mail with nominations. We have 6 nominees so far, very good since all of them would be excellent choices. I'm now asking each of them to either accept or refuse the nomination by the 10 January deadline. Nominations are still open, but if you nominate someone I'll immediately refer to this mail and ask for a statement by 10 January too. Each of the (current and future) nominees should answer this mail in public and state very briefly: 1) Whether he/she is available to run for election; the term is not set, but I expect an availability to stay in the role for at least one year. I'll decline my nomination, though I did give it serious consideration and am gratified to be nominated. a) I don't think I can reliably meet the time commitment that this role would require. b) I think that progress within the larger ecosystem will require rapprochement with the less ideological elements of the LibreOffice community. My past statements and writings make me too much of an obstacle in that respect, allowing those with more radical views to block the natural accommodation that should be occurring between these two communities. c) I think I can better serve the project, as I have, in other ways. 2) Where his/her efforts will primarily be directed. 3) Regardless of whether one is running or not (and regardless of whether one is elected or not), it might be that some of the candidates wish to take responsibility for a certain area. This can be very good, since the project is huge and the Chair might miss some details. For example, Hagar often updates the draft quarterly report with information about the Forum (figures, issues...). If the Chair knows that someone commits to follow a certain area closely and to help in reporting, then reporting becomes a team work and can be much better than what we have done so far. I've generally been focused on: a) Social media -- I manage the Facebook, Twitter and Google+ accounts. b) Analytics and SEO for our website c) Track downloads and similar stats d) Blogging e) Materials to help new volunteers get started on the project f) Bugzilla Admin g) Moderator for many of the mailing lists. In general, what I do helps amplify the visibility and recognition of the good work that our committers do in new AOO releases. I'm hoping we soon get a Release Manager volunteer, and make progress on a new release so I can be busy again in the above areas. Regards, -Rob The 6 nominees so far are, in alphabetical order: - janiJan Iversen - jsc Jürgen Schmidt - kschenk Kay Schenk - louis Louis Suarez-Potts - marcus Marcus Lange - robweir Rob Weir I'm hereby asking each of them (and any future nominees) to provide their statement by 10 January; those who already sent their statement are free to expand upon it according to the above guidelines if they wish. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Am 01/06/2015 07:33 PM, schrieb Andrea Pescetti: On 01/01/2015 Andrea Pescetti wrote: Let's take several days, until 10 January, to receive nominations (or self-nominations) for the next PMC Chair. Just reply to this e-mail with nominations. 1) Whether he/she is available to run for election; the term is not set, but I expect an availability to stay in the role for at least one year. 2) Where his/her efforts will primarily be directed. 3) Regardless of whether one is running or not (and regardless of whether one is elected or not), it might be that some of the candidates wish to take responsibility for a certain area. This can be very good, since the project is huge and the Chair might miss some details. For example, Hagar often updates the draft quarterly report with information about the Forum (figures, issues...). If the Chair knows that someone commits to follow a certain area closely and to help in reporting, then reporting becomes a team work and can be much better than what we have done so far. The 6 nominees so far are, in alphabetical order: - jani Jan Iversen - jsc Jürgen Schmidt - kschenk Kay Schenk - louis Louis Suarez-Potts - marcus Marcus Lange - robweir Rob Weir I'm hereby asking each of them (and any future nominees) to provide their statement by 10 January; those who already sent their statement are free to expand upon it according to the above guidelines if they wish. thanks a lot for your trust in me (especially @Michal for his initial suggestion). However, I don't feel to be the right person. Even when it's not that much work (in theory ;-) ) that the chair has to do, I cannot gurantee to have it when it is needed. I have to work for my money and therefore I can only spend my spare time in the evening and weekend - and even then not always. I don't want that you have to wait for me to get the chair work done. Of course, you can say don't worry, just try it. But to resign after 3 months because it's really not working and then voting again for someone new would be IMHO a wrong message to the world. Thanks Marcus - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Nominations for a new PMC Chair
Hi Yes I am available for election excellent chair and helped make the transition to apache go smoothly, now its time we focus on outfacing matters. I am (again) managing our servers as well as pootle. I am planning some major changes in the server setup to make maintenance semi-automatic. I have supervised student projects that defined how our build system and translation work flow could be stream lined. I was and am helping with apacheCON, infra, incubator and other foundation projects as well as give talks on events like FOSDEM. I believe ASF has a lot more to offer than similar foundations and believe AOO can gain a lot from that. I am also involved heavily in the new incubator project Corinthia which aim at developing a responsive design office document editor for mobile devices. When I look at the other nominees they are all far more experienced and dedicated to openOffice than I am. My force is not to have the long openoffice history but a fresh view and therefore often different. The formal role as chair is simple and merely administrative. My main effort will, as PMC, be to push hard for action and changes...we have too many good discussions that result in nothingwe need to stop talking and start doing. Discussions are good for the community as long as they lead somewhere. We are all too often confirming each other how well things are and thus refraining from making changes. The whole openoffice eco system, not just AOO, lack resources. The eco-system is no longer in a situation where we can afford to compete and still survive, we need to cooperate across projects. I believe being totally open is the right way (independent of who reads our mailing lists) and use it as an invitation to cooperate. I will work for more cooperation with other openoffice projects and know we will need to accept significant changes to accomplish this goal. I am result oriented, so I will, as an example, push hard for a digital signed windows release instead of waiting for buildbot and other obstacles... showing results however small is one method to add energy to our community and in my opinion a lot better than waiting and keep talking. We need a far more active community. A big part of the PMC is not visible in the project. I believe we should try over a couple of months to reactivate the PMC members, and at the end reduce our PMC to the active (hopefully everybody) members. I did that with success in another project, and have since seen famous project like httpd do the same. In my view it is better to have a smaller but active PMC, than having a big partly inactive PMC. I resigned as PMC because the above opinions (or at least my way of presenting them), was not accepted or downright rejected. Voting me back signals acceptance and/or willingness to change (of course we need to have consensus on how to implement the changes). If we are to continue our present line or only make slight adjustments, I am wrong for the job...in that case my presence will only cause heated discussion (like when I was PMC). I am aware the above is quite a mouthful to lift, so this can only be done with a PMC and Community that see the same goals. We all need to put in a share of work, I can only help streamline the work. Thanks for taking time to read this. rgds jan i On Tuesday, January 6, 2015, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: On 01/01/2015 Andrea Pescetti wrote: Let's take several days, until 10 January, to receive nominations (or self-nominations) for the next PMC Chair. Just reply to this e-mail with nominations. We have 6 nominees so far, very good since all of them would be excellent choices. I'm now asking each of them to either accept or refuse the nomination by the 10 January deadline. Nominations are still open, but if you nominate someone I'll immediately refer to this mail and ask for a statement by 10 January too. Each of the (current and future) nominees should answer this mail in public and state very briefly: 1) Whether he/she is available to run for election; the term is not set, but I expect an availability to stay in the role for at least one year. 2) Where his/her efforts will primarily be directed. 3) Regardless of whether one is running or not (and regardless of whether one is elected or not), it might be that some of the candidates wish to take responsibility for a certain area. This can be very good, since the project is huge and the Chair might miss some details. For example, Hagar often updates the draft quarterly report with information about the Forum (figures, issues...). If the Chair knows that someone commits to follow a certain area closely and to help in reporting, then reporting becomes a team work and can be much better than what we have done so far. The 6 nominees so far are, in alphabetical order: - janiJan Iversen - jsc Jürgen Schmidt - kschenk Kay Schenk - louis Louis Suarez-Potts - marcus Marcus Lange - robweir Rob Weir
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
I hereby nominate Jürgen Schmidt (jsc) He has been involved in every major openoffice development for a decade or more. He was my mentor when I joined AOO, and without his mentoring I would not have been here. Jürgen has been involved in all aspects of openoffice and later Apache OpenOffice including being release manager for several releases. His will to help shape the future of AOO is to be seen in most of his mails. Louis Suarez-Potts. Louis has been involved in openoffice forever. Before openoffice became AOO, he was deeply involved in community building, something a chair should focus on. Louis has not been so active lately, but I have no doubt that the future of AOO (and opensource in general) is a major driving force for him. rgds jan I. On 3 January 2015 at 13:37, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: On 02/01/2015 Michal Hriň wrote: So here I chose some people, to make this election easier. This is indeed the aim of this phase (until 10 January): nominating people and knowing if they are available for election. The actual vote will happen later. All people named so far would be good candidates, as well as a few others who haven't been mentioned yet. I'm nominating Jan Iversen (jani). Reasons: - He is active in both OpenOffice and Apache, and thus he can be a perfect interface between OpenOffice and the Foundation at large - He is energetic, visionary and pragmatic - He is a committer in many key projects of the Foundation http://people.apache.org/committer-index.html#jani including Infrastructure and Corinthia that are connected to OpenOffice in some way - He regularly attends and organizes conferences and events - He is a Member of the Foundation Technically, Jan is an emeritus OpenOffice PMC member but as I explained this is not an issue: the vote for electing the new Chair can take care of this detail (i.e., moving him from emeritus to active) too. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
On 01/06/2015 10:33 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: On 01/01/2015 Andrea Pescetti wrote: Let's take several days, until 10 January, to receive nominations (or self-nominations) for the next PMC Chair. Just reply to this e-mail with nominations. We have 6 nominees so far, very good since all of them would be excellent choices. I'm now asking each of them to either accept or refuse the nomination by the 10 January deadline. Nominations are still open, but if you nominate someone I'll immediately refer to this mail and ask for a statement by 10 January too. As flattered as I am by this nomination, I feel I must refuse it. In an administrative sense, I would probably be a good chair, but at the current time, I think OpenOffice needs more than this from a chairperson. So, thanks Michal for your nomination, but I don't feel I'm the right fit. Each of the (current and future) nominees should answer this mail in public and state very briefly: 1) Whether he/she is available to run for election; the term is not set, but I expect an availability to stay in the role for at least one year. 2) Where his/her efforts will primarily be directed. 3) Regardless of whether one is running or not (and regardless of whether one is elected or not), it might be that some of the candidates wish to take responsibility for a certain area. This can be very good, since the project is huge and the Chair might miss some details. For example, Hagar often updates the draft quarterly report with information about the Forum (figures, issues...). If the Chair knows that someone commits to follow a certain area closely and to help in reporting, then reporting becomes a team work and can be much better than what we have done so far. I would be more than happy to participate in this fashion in whatever area is most needed. In the past I participated in board reporting, but I could certainly do other things as needed. The 6 nominees so far are, in alphabetical order: - janiJan Iversen - jsc Jürgen Schmidt - kschenk Kay Schenk - louis Louis Suarez-Potts - marcus Marcus Lange - robweir Rob Weir I'm hereby asking each of them (and any future nominees) to provide their statement by 10 January; those who already sent their statement are free to expand upon it according to the above guidelines if they wish. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org -- - MzK There's a bit of magic in everything, and some loss to even things out. -- Lou Reed - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
On 01/01/2015 Andrea Pescetti wrote: Let's take several days, until 10 January, to receive nominations (or self-nominations) for the next PMC Chair. Just reply to this e-mail with nominations. We have 6 nominees so far, very good since all of them would be excellent choices. I'm now asking each of them to either accept or refuse the nomination by the 10 January deadline. Nominations are still open, but if you nominate someone I'll immediately refer to this mail and ask for a statement by 10 January too. Each of the (current and future) nominees should answer this mail in public and state very briefly: 1) Whether he/she is available to run for election; the term is not set, but I expect an availability to stay in the role for at least one year. 2) Where his/her efforts will primarily be directed. 3) Regardless of whether one is running or not (and regardless of whether one is elected or not), it might be that some of the candidates wish to take responsibility for a certain area. This can be very good, since the project is huge and the Chair might miss some details. For example, Hagar often updates the draft quarterly report with information about the Forum (figures, issues...). If the Chair knows that someone commits to follow a certain area closely and to help in reporting, then reporting becomes a team work and can be much better than what we have done so far. The 6 nominees so far are, in alphabetical order: - janiJan Iversen - jsc Jürgen Schmidt - kschenk Kay Schenk - louis Louis Suarez-Potts - marcus Marcus Lange - robweir Rob Weir I'm hereby asking each of them (and any future nominees) to provide their statement by 10 January; those who already sent their statement are free to expand upon it according to the above guidelines if they wish. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
On 02/01/2015 Michal Hriň wrote: So here I chose some people, to make this election easier. This is indeed the aim of this phase (until 10 January): nominating people and knowing if they are available for election. The actual vote will happen later. All people named so far would be good candidates, as well as a few others who haven't been mentioned yet. I'm nominating Jan Iversen (jani). Reasons: - He is active in both OpenOffice and Apache, and thus he can be a perfect interface between OpenOffice and the Foundation at large - He is energetic, visionary and pragmatic - He is a committer in many key projects of the Foundation http://people.apache.org/committer-index.html#jani including Infrastructure and Corinthia that are connected to OpenOffice in some way - He regularly attends and organizes conferences and events - He is a Member of the Foundation Technically, Jan is an emeritus OpenOffice PMC member but as I explained this is not an issue: the vote for electing the new Chair can take care of this detail (i.e., moving him from emeritus to active) too. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
On 2 January 2015 at 15:37, Michal Hriň h...@apache.org wrote: Dňa 01.01.2015 o 23:16 jan i napísal(a): On 1 January 2015 at 22:57, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: As I wrote yesterday, it's time to start looking for a new PMC Chair that can replace me (only for these specific duties; I'll of course continue with all my other activities, that are the vast majority) when applicable. We are not in a hurry as I will take care of the January Board report, but it's good to start moving. Let's take several days, until 10 January, to receive nominations (or self-nominations) for the next PMC Chair. Just reply to this e-mail with nominations. My duties as a Chair cover only a minimal part of my activity in OpenOffice, so it's good that I point out what is expected of a Chair: http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair 1) The Chair is the interface between the Project Management Committee and the Apache Board. The Chair takes responsibilities for the quarterly report https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Board+Reports 2) The chair is a facilitator and their role within the PMC is to ensure that everyone has a chance to be heard and to enable meetings to flow smoothly. There is no concept of leader in the Apache way. 3) After the project has elected new committers or PMC members, the Chair is responsible for the needed updates to the Apache LDAP groups. You describe very correctly the duties of a chair, seen from our bylaws. But apart from that, there seems be an unwritten rule the chair is normally also quite active.. In the bigger part of ASF projects, the PMC is active together with the chair, in that case chair function is purely administrative. You can find some project where the chair is active, but the rest of the PMC is only limited active, in that case the chair should be active in reactivating the PMC. I have yet to find a project where the chair is inactive while the PMC is active. Bear in mind I dont speak of the chair as a role (which you have already correctly described), but the person behind the role. That person, should always have a finger on the pulse of the community, be prepared to help solve conflictsof course if the PMC group is active, this is not a problem.and most importantly that person should having the backing of the PMC group. rgds jan I. OK, we know what are duties of PMC Chair. Both of you didn't get out a names of candidates. Probably, I know your view, but please, put it here. @Michael, I did not put any names here, because I do not have any names, I resigned from the PMC in 2014 mainly because felt a strong disagreement with the rest of the PMC, about where we are, and how we give the project more momentum. So here I chose some people, to make this election easier. Rob Weir Marcus Lange Key Schenk This are I thing object reasons, looking on activity on mailing lists (dev l10n commits) for last year and for a time after last release. This is not my finite vote. I will wait for others nominations. Voting comes after end of nominations. And don't to forget, named people, express your opinion here, if you want, are willing and able to do this. +1. rgds jan i Regards, Michal Hriň So please go on with your nominations. We don't have strict rules about eligibility. As I verified, nominees needn't be PMC members, since they can be admitted to the PMC as part of their election. They needn't be OpenOffice committers either, but in practice the new Chair needs to have a good knowledge of the project, so I see it reasonable (but again, not mandatory) that the new Chair is chosen among the OpenOffice committers: http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#openoffice Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 6:37 AM, Michal Hriň h...@apache.org wrote: Dňa 01.01.2015 o 23:16 jan i napísal(a): On 1 January 2015 at 22:57, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: As I wrote yesterday, it's time to start looking for a new PMC Chair that can replace me (only for these specific duties; I'll of course continue with all my other activities, that are the vast majority) when applicable. We are not in a hurry as I will take care of the January Board report, but it's good to start moving. Let's take several days, until 10 January, to receive nominations (or self-nominations) for the next PMC Chair. Just reply to this e-mail with nominations. My duties as a Chair cover only a minimal part of my activity in OpenOffice, so it's good that I point out what is expected of a Chair: http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair 1) The Chair is the interface between the Project Management Committee and the Apache Board. The Chair takes responsibilities for the quarterly report https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Board+Reports 2) The chair is a facilitator and their role within the PMC is to ensure that everyone has a chance to be heard and to enable meetings to flow smoothly. There is no concept of leader in the Apache way. 3) After the project has elected new committers or PMC members, the Chair is responsible for the needed updates to the Apache LDAP groups. You describe very correctly the duties of a chair, seen from our bylaws. But apart from that, there seems be an unwritten rule the chair is normally also quite active.. In the bigger part of ASF projects, the PMC is active together with the chair, in that case chair function is purely administrative. You can find some project where the chair is active, but the rest of the PMC is only limited active, in that case the chair should be active in reactivating the PMC. I have yet to find a project where the chair is inactive while the PMC is active. Bear in mind I dont speak of the chair as a role (which you have already correctly described), but the person behind the role. That person, should always have a finger on the pulse of the community, be prepared to help solve conflictsof course if the PMC group is active, this is not a problem.and most importantly that person should having the backing of the PMC group. rgds jan I. OK, we know what are duties of PMC Chair. Both of you didn't get out a names of candidates. Probably, I know your view, but please, put it here. So here I chose some people, to make this election easier. Rob Weir Marcus Lange Key Schenk This are I thing object reasons, looking on activity on mailing lists (dev l10n commits) for last year and for a time after last release. This is not my finite vote. I will wait for others nominations. And don't to forget, named people, express your opinion here, if you want, are willing and able to do this. Regards, Michal Hriň I am nominating Rob Weir . Reasons -- * active in both OpenOffice and ODF * one of the initial proposers/committers to establish OpenOffice at Apache http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OpenOfficeProposal * years of experience in the OpenOffice derivative, Symphony * demonstrated leadership in this project * participates and attends open source and OpenOffice events * recently appointed member of the Apache Software Foundation -- http://www.apache.org/foundation/records/minutes/2014/board_minutes_2014_07_16.txt So please go on with your nominations. We don't have strict rules about eligibility. As I verified, nominees needn't be PMC members, since they can be admitted to the PMC as part of their election. They needn't be OpenOffice committers either, but in practice the new Chair needs to have a good knowledge of the project, so I see it reasonable (but again, not mandatory) that the new Chair is chosen among the OpenOffice committers: http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#openoffice Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org -- - MzK There's a bit of magic in everything, and some loss to even things out. -- Lou Reed
Re: Nominations for a new PMC Chair
On 1 January 2015 at 22:57, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: As I wrote yesterday, it's time to start looking for a new PMC Chair that can replace me (only for these specific duties; I'll of course continue with all my other activities, that are the vast majority) when applicable. We are not in a hurry as I will take care of the January Board report, but it's good to start moving. Let's take several days, until 10 January, to receive nominations (or self-nominations) for the next PMC Chair. Just reply to this e-mail with nominations. My duties as a Chair cover only a minimal part of my activity in OpenOffice, so it's good that I point out what is expected of a Chair: http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair 1) The Chair is the interface between the Project Management Committee and the Apache Board. The Chair takes responsibilities for the quarterly report https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Board+Reports 2) The chair is a facilitator and their role within the PMC is to ensure that everyone has a chance to be heard and to enable meetings to flow smoothly. There is no concept of leader in the Apache way. 3) After the project has elected new committers or PMC members, the Chair is responsible for the needed updates to the Apache LDAP groups. You describe very correctly the duties of a chair, seen from our bylaws. But apart from that, there seems be an unwritten rule the chair is normally also quite active.. In the bigger part of ASF projects, the PMC is active together with the chair, in that case chair function is purely administrative. You can find some project where the chair is active, but the rest of the PMC is only limited active, in that case the chair should be active in reactivating the PMC. I have yet to find a project where the chair is inactive while the PMC is active. Bear in mind I dont speak of the chair as a role (which you have already correctly described), but the person behind the role. That person, should always have a finger on the pulse of the community, be prepared to help solve conflictsof course if the PMC group is active, this is not a problem.and most importantly that person should having the backing of the PMC group. rgds jan I. So please go on with your nominations. We don't have strict rules about eligibility. As I verified, nominees needn't be PMC members, since they can be admitted to the PMC as part of their election. They needn't be OpenOffice committers either, but in practice the new Chair needs to have a good knowledge of the project, so I see it reasonable (but again, not mandatory) that the new Chair is chosen among the OpenOffice committers: http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#openoffice Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Nominations for a new PMC Chair
As I wrote yesterday, it's time to start looking for a new PMC Chair that can replace me (only for these specific duties; I'll of course continue with all my other activities, that are the vast majority) when applicable. We are not in a hurry as I will take care of the January Board report, but it's good to start moving. Let's take several days, until 10 January, to receive nominations (or self-nominations) for the next PMC Chair. Just reply to this e-mail with nominations. My duties as a Chair cover only a minimal part of my activity in OpenOffice, so it's good that I point out what is expected of a Chair: http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair 1) The Chair is the interface between the Project Management Committee and the Apache Board. The Chair takes responsibilities for the quarterly report https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Board+Reports 2) The chair is a facilitator and their role within the PMC is to ensure that everyone has a chance to be heard and to enable meetings to flow smoothly. There is no concept of leader in the Apache way. 3) After the project has elected new committers or PMC members, the Chair is responsible for the needed updates to the Apache LDAP groups. So please go on with your nominations. We don't have strict rules about eligibility. As I verified, nominees needn't be PMC members, since they can be admitted to the PMC as part of their election. They needn't be OpenOffice committers either, but in practice the new Chair needs to have a good knowledge of the project, so I see it reasonable (but again, not mandatory) that the new Chair is chosen among the OpenOffice committers: http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#openoffice Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
