Re: OpenOffice thin client edition - why not?
Rob Weir wrote: Does anyone know what LibreOffice has in terms of test documents? Hi Rob, there is http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/contrib/test-files/ , and in-tree application unit tests, e.g. http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/tree/sw/qa/core/data Btw, I vaguely recall Jos mentioning to setup something along the lines of this discussion on gitorious, though momentarily only finding http://gitorious.org/odfautotests which does not seem to contain actual test files. Since github or gitorious would be closer to something project-independent, and also very light-touch. Otherwise, freedesktop.org toplevel of course is always a good place to host such content. Cheers, -- Thorsten signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: OpenOffice thin client edition - why not?
On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 8:34 AM, Inge Wallin i...@lysator.liu.se wrote: On Sunday, January 27, 2013 03:33:20 Rob Weir wrote: On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Inge Wallin i...@lysator.liu.se wrote: On Wednesday, January 23, 2013 21:33:04 Rob Weir wrote: On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 8:06 AM, Inge Wallin i...@lysator.liu.se wrote: On Friday, January 18, 2013 15:21:01 Ian Lynch wrote: On 18 January 2013 13:18, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 9:43 AM, Ian Lynch ianrly...@gmail.com wrote: What we really need is a cloud version of AOO like Google Docs. We don´t *need* ONE thing. That´s the beauty of open source, ´we´ could do *several* things. Well yes, but it is more efficient to do one thing that covers many needs rather than try and do many things with not enough resource. I for one don´t ´need´ an AJAX / HTML5 version of AOO... GDocs is fine... A lot of people would say yes but GDocs is not open source. Some people would say MS Office is fine and others would say Koffice. Question is whether or not we want a long term sustainable project for the community or one that will get more and more marginalised. As a side note: While I am happy that KOffice is mentioned now and then on this list, I think it would be proper to mention the Calligra Suite instead. KOffice is not being developed any more while Calligra is running full speed ahead. Hi Inge, Thanks for the reminder. Getting people to recognize a name change takes time, and repetition. We still see on a daily basis people expressing surprise to learn that OpenOffice is now at Apache. Are you planning to be at the KDE conference in July in Bilbao? It might good to have someone from AOO attend. Aside from the obvious common interest in ODF, it would be interesting to see if there are any other opportunities for collaboration. Yes, I will definitely be in Bilbao unless something very serious happens. I would love to meet you there and talk about collaboration between our projects. I can see two areas where we could start immediately without much talk: 1. test documents Calligra has ~3500 test documents in ODF (odt, ods, odp), MS binary (doc, xls, ppt) and MS xml (docx, xlsx, pptx) formats. I suppose that there is a test suite available for AOO as well. Are these documents from the wild or documents created specifically for tests? I remember hearing Jos describe a technique for creating test documents that sounded interesting. They are not hand hacked xml but where created specifically for testing the respective function by testers employed by Nokia. They where done originally for the document viewer application in the Nokia N900 and then later extended for the viewer in the Nokia N9. I recall Microsoft having a collection of test documents as well, that they shared at a plugfest a few years ago. Must have been one that I didn't attend. :/ It would be interesting to see those documents. It was mainly ODF-documents created in MS Office. It was a sizable set of test docs. They made it available for use during the Plugfest but also said the documents might be made available to a more general test collection if other companies made their test documents availalbe as well. I have a few interesting test documents, but the Symphony test documents are IBM-internal right now, since many of them are customer files that we may not share. But if there is interest (across projects) in creating a collection of test office documents in several formats, then I would investigate to see if there are some that we could contribute. The most interessting one we have is created by MS Office. It's valid ODT but not structured the same way as LO/AOO normally does it. We had to work a lot to make that render correctly. :) The documents that Calligra has access to are structured not only according to format but also to feature, such as pictures, text formatting, graphics (smart art, etc), and so on. Excellent. It would be great if we could work to create an even bigger and better database of test documents which covers even more features. Yes. But where to do this? OASIS is not really set up to do this. (and it sounds like it would be best to do more than just ODF test documents), It could be done in the AOO project, but that may make it difficult (politically) for some to contribute. Without arguing the reasons for that view, I think it is (sadly) current reality. Other choices might be the ODF Toolkit project (where we have the ODF Validator) or OfficeShots (which allows automated online testing). Or just continue with the KDE repository? Check out: svn://anonsvn.kde.org/home/kde/trunk/tests/calligratests Getting a KDE commit account is much easier than an Apache one. Easier on the KDE side,
Re: OpenOffice thin client edition - why not?
On 24/01/2013 Inge Wallin wrote: On Wednesday, January 23, 2013 21:33:04 Rob Weir wrote: Are you planning to be at the KDE conference in July in Bilbao? It might good to have someone from AOO attend. Aside from the obvious common interest in ODF, it would be interesting to see if there are any other opportunities for collaboration. Yes, I will definitely be in Bilbao unless something very serious happens. I would love to meet you there and talk about collaboration between our projects. FOSDEM, in exactly one week in Brussels, could be another opportunity. Several OpenOffice developers and community members will attend. OpenOffice will have a dedicated devroom on Saturday 2 February and a stand. Actually we had given availability to share our devroom with similar projects, but in the end this won't happen... Anyway, if there are Calligra developers around, we can surely find time for a talk and some practical collaboration. 1. test documents I don't believe we have a corpus of test documents in SVN. We do have some in Bugzilla. 2. Interoperability and ODF confomance. Very interesting topic, which we should definitely care about. Again, let's see if we can talk or discuss on this list how to improve this. Regards, Andrea.
Re: OpenOffice thin client edition - why not?
On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Inge Wallin i...@lysator.liu.se wrote: On Wednesday, January 23, 2013 21:33:04 Rob Weir wrote: On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 8:06 AM, Inge Wallin i...@lysator.liu.se wrote: On Friday, January 18, 2013 15:21:01 Ian Lynch wrote: On 18 January 2013 13:18, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 9:43 AM, Ian Lynch ianrly...@gmail.com wrote: What we really need is a cloud version of AOO like Google Docs. We don´t *need* ONE thing. That´s the beauty of open source, ´we´ could do *several* things. Well yes, but it is more efficient to do one thing that covers many needs rather than try and do many things with not enough resource. I for one don´t ´need´ an AJAX / HTML5 version of AOO... GDocs is fine... A lot of people would say yes but GDocs is not open source. Some people would say MS Office is fine and others would say Koffice. Question is whether or not we want a long term sustainable project for the community or one that will get more and more marginalised. As a side note: While I am happy that KOffice is mentioned now and then on this list, I think it would be proper to mention the Calligra Suite instead. KOffice is not being developed any more while Calligra is running full speed ahead. Hi Inge, Thanks for the reminder. Getting people to recognize a name change takes time, and repetition. We still see on a daily basis people expressing surprise to learn that OpenOffice is now at Apache. Are you planning to be at the KDE conference in July in Bilbao? It might good to have someone from AOO attend. Aside from the obvious common interest in ODF, it would be interesting to see if there are any other opportunities for collaboration. Yes, I will definitely be in Bilbao unless something very serious happens. I would love to meet you there and talk about collaboration between our projects. I can see two areas where we could start immediately without much talk: 1. test documents Calligra has ~3500 test documents in ODF (odt, ods, odp), MS binary (doc, xls, ppt) and MS xml (docx, xlsx, pptx) formats. I suppose that there is a test suite available for AOO as well. Are these documents from the wild or documents created specifically for tests? I remember hearing Jos describe a technique for creating test documents that sounded interesting. I recall Microsoft having a collection of test documents as well, that they shared at a plugfest a few years ago. I have a few interesting test documents, but the Symphony test documents are IBM-internal right now, since many of them are customer files that we may not share. But if there is interest (across projects) in creating a collection of test office documents in several formats, then I would investigate to see if there are some that we could contribute. The documents that Calligra has access to are structured not only according to format but also to feature, such as pictures, text formatting, graphics (smart art, etc), and so on. Excellent. It would be great if we could work to create an even bigger and better database of test documents which covers even more features. Yes. But where to do this? OASIS is not really set up to do this. (and it sounds like it would be best to do more than just ODF test documents), It could be done in the AOO project, but that may make it difficult (politically) for some to contribute. Without arguing the reasons for that view, I think it is (sadly) current reality. Other choices might be the ODF Toolkit project (where we have the ODF Validator) or OfficeShots (which allows automated online testing). 2. Interoperability and ODF confomance. It would be good if you could give a high priority to bugs which make interoperability with other ODF suites such as Calligra. In Calligra we already have a special bug category for ODF related bugs and these are always treated with speed and priority. We have an XML product in Bugzilla where ODF bugs are categorized, as well as other XML-related import/export issues in XHTML, XSLT, etc. But if you have a specific set of ODF issues that you think we should raise in priority, posting that list to this mailing list would help. Regards, -Rob What do you say? -Inge Regards, -Rob -Inge I personally think browser based apps are a pig, and doing apps in JScript is insane. I had Chrome open the other day just with GMail and it was using over 150 MB of RAM... Not really a big problem with modern multi-gig computers (including future mobile technologies). Less of a problem than stuff that only works on one device or needs a lot of effort to port across multi-devices, operating systems etc. To me open standards are worth paying a bit of a price for in terms of machine resources since the latter continue to grow and get less expensive. A thin client virtualized version on the other hand would use
Re: OpenOffice thin client edition - why not?
On Wednesday, January 23, 2013 21:33:04 Rob Weir wrote: On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 8:06 AM, Inge Wallin i...@lysator.liu.se wrote: On Friday, January 18, 2013 15:21:01 Ian Lynch wrote: On 18 January 2013 13:18, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 9:43 AM, Ian Lynch ianrly...@gmail.com wrote: What we really need is a cloud version of AOO like Google Docs. We don´t *need* ONE thing. That´s the beauty of open source, ´we´ could do *several* things. Well yes, but it is more efficient to do one thing that covers many needs rather than try and do many things with not enough resource. I for one don´t ´need´ an AJAX / HTML5 version of AOO... GDocs is fine... A lot of people would say yes but GDocs is not open source. Some people would say MS Office is fine and others would say Koffice. Question is whether or not we want a long term sustainable project for the community or one that will get more and more marginalised. As a side note: While I am happy that KOffice is mentioned now and then on this list, I think it would be proper to mention the Calligra Suite instead. KOffice is not being developed any more while Calligra is running full speed ahead. Hi Inge, Thanks for the reminder. Getting people to recognize a name change takes time, and repetition. We still see on a daily basis people expressing surprise to learn that OpenOffice is now at Apache. Are you planning to be at the KDE conference in July in Bilbao? It might good to have someone from AOO attend. Aside from the obvious common interest in ODF, it would be interesting to see if there are any other opportunities for collaboration. Yes, I will definitely be in Bilbao unless something very serious happens. I would love to meet you there and talk about collaboration between our projects. I can see two areas where we could start immediately without much talk: 1. test documents Calligra has ~3500 test documents in ODF (odt, ods, odp), MS binary (doc, xls, ppt) and MS xml (docx, xlsx, pptx) formats. I suppose that there is a test suite available for AOO as well. The documents that Calligra has access to are structured not only according to format but also to feature, such as pictures, text formatting, graphics (smart art, etc), and so on. It would be great if we could work to create an even bigger and better database of test documents which covers even more features. 2. Interoperability and ODF confomance. It would be good if you could give a high priority to bugs which make interoperability with other ODF suites such as Calligra. In Calligra we already have a special bug category for ODF related bugs and these are always treated with speed and priority. What do you say? -Inge Regards, -Rob -Inge I personally think browser based apps are a pig, and doing apps in JScript is insane. I had Chrome open the other day just with GMail and it was using over 150 MB of RAM... Not really a big problem with modern multi-gig computers (including future mobile technologies). Less of a problem than stuff that only works on one device or needs a lot of effort to port across multi-devices, operating systems etc. To me open standards are worth paying a bit of a price for in terms of machine resources since the latter continue to grow and get less expensive. A thin client virtualized version on the other hand would use the PC´s CPU and horsepower and deliver great speed to even to lowest powered devices. Assuming you have someone to host it for you. O a global scale that is not trivial to do which is probably why Google with all its resources does what it does. But of course, that´s going in a different direction from the current fad Swimming against global trends is not a sensible idea when you have very limited resources and very little time. FC
Re: OpenOffice thin client edition - why not?
On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 8:06 AM, Inge Wallin i...@lysator.liu.se wrote: On Friday, January 18, 2013 15:21:01 Ian Lynch wrote: On 18 January 2013 13:18, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 9:43 AM, Ian Lynch ianrly...@gmail.com wrote: What we really need is a cloud version of AOO like Google Docs. We don´t *need* ONE thing. That´s the beauty of open source, ´we´ could do *several* things. Well yes, but it is more efficient to do one thing that covers many needs rather than try and do many things with not enough resource. I for one don´t ´need´ an AJAX / HTML5 version of AOO... GDocs is fine... A lot of people would say yes but GDocs is not open source. Some people would say MS Office is fine and others would say Koffice. Question is whether or not we want a long term sustainable project for the community or one that will get more and more marginalised. As a side note: While I am happy that KOffice is mentioned now and then on this list, I think it would be proper to mention the Calligra Suite instead. KOffice is not being developed any more while Calligra is running full speed ahead. Hi Inge, Thanks for the reminder. Getting people to recognize a name change takes time, and repetition. We still see on a daily basis people expressing surprise to learn that OpenOffice is now at Apache. Are you planning to be at the KDE conference in July in Bilbao? It might good to have someone from AOO attend. Aside from the obvious common interest in ODF, it would be interesting to see if there are any other opportunities for collaboration. Regards, -Rob -Inge I personally think browser based apps are a pig, and doing apps in JScript is insane. I had Chrome open the other day just with GMail and it was using over 150 MB of RAM... Not really a big problem with modern multi-gig computers (including future mobile technologies). Less of a problem than stuff that only works on one device or needs a lot of effort to port across multi-devices, operating systems etc. To me open standards are worth paying a bit of a price for in terms of machine resources since the latter continue to grow and get less expensive. A thin client virtualized version on the other hand would use the PC´s CPU and horsepower and deliver great speed to even to lowest powered devices. Assuming you have someone to host it for you. O a global scale that is not trivial to do which is probably why Google with all its resources does what it does. But of course, that´s going in a different direction from the current fad Swimming against global trends is not a sensible idea when you have very limited resources and very little time. FC
Re: OpenOffice thin client edition - why not?
Thanks to the Apache OpenOffice Wikipedia article, I see there's OpenOffice Anywhere (http://www.ooanywhere.com/) that claims to provide browser access to OpenOffice 3. OpenOffice Anywhere charges a fee for this service. Given Google Docs is free, and AOO is free, I have doubts about the long-term viability of their business model. But it does suggest a thin client is workable. Don On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 9:23 AM, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote: Ha! it looks as if I had written it with regards to AOO thin client ;) I´ll try to see if this thing is buildable and I can sort f make a wrapper-launcher for AOO... FC
Re: OpenOffice thin client edition - why not?
On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 7:44 PM, Ian Lynch ianrly...@gmail.com wrote: That dies of course rely on having at least a significant minority of drug free competitors! :-) I think you pasted your reply into the wrong GMail compose window. Or, I´m beginning to lose track of where this thread is going. ;) FC -- During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un Acto Revolucionario - George Orwell
Re: OpenOffice thin client edition - why not?
On 19 January 2013 11:04, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 7:44 PM, Ian Lynch ianrly...@gmail.com wrote: That dies of course rely on having at least a significant minority of drug free competitors! :-) I think you pasted your reply into the wrong GMail compose window. Or, I´m beginning to lose track of where this thread is going. ;) Just replying to Louis :-). Back on topic. There are two things that will decide what happens in terms of future development. One is what the developers decide to put their time to and the other is what the community as a whole thinks is important rather than individual preferences. My view is that it is best to drive development in the light of what most people will need in a few years time because it will take a few years to get there. Skate to where the puck will be rather than where it is or has been. FC -- During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un Acto Revolucionario - George Orwell -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales.
Re: OpenOffice thin client edition - why not?
On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 10:01 AM, Ian Lynch ianrly...@gmail.com wrote: Skate to where the puck will be rather than where it is or has been. That´s fine. So, who wants to add a -vncserver switch to AOO ? ;) FC -- During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un Acto Revolucionario - George Orwell
Re: OpenOffice thin client edition - why not?
On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote: That´s fine. So, who wants to add a -vncserver switch to AOO ? ;) Hmmm I´ve been researching this and it turns out all VNC implementations out there are GPL. BUT there´s this interesting solution with an Apache license... http://www.freerdp.com/ FreeRDP is a free implementation of the Remote Desktop Protocol (RDP), released under the Apache license. Enjoy the freedom of using your software wherever you want, the way you want it, in a world where interoperability can finally liberate your computing expeience Ha! it looks as if I had written it with regards to AOO thin client ;) FC -- During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un Acto Revolucionario - George Orwell
Re: OpenOffice thin client edition - why not?
On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote: Ha! it looks as if I had written it with regards to AOO thin client ;) I´ll try to see if this thing is buildable and I can sort f make a wrapper-launcher for AOO... FC
Re: OpenOffice thin client edition - why not?
Hi, this server based StarOffice version was called StarPortal (StarDivision). Later it was called Sun ONE Webtop (Sun Microsystems). The client protocol was VCL remote, a protocol that was removed before Sun opensourced the StarOffice code base to OpenOffice.org. With VCL remote the VCL rendered user interface was triggered via API allowing a full color and full resolution visualization of the UI by needing just an ISDN phone connection (64 kbit/s). There were native C++ VCL clients for almost every client platform (Win, Mac, Linux, Solaris, etc.) and there was a Java based VCL client to be used via browser interface or used within a Sun Java station. It had a central configuration management solution based on LDAP (XML config items were stored within an LDAP structure). Parts of the configuration logic is still part of AOO, eg. locking of config items. There were parts that allowed rendering into HTML, DHTML, WML and there was a fax interface. Sun ONE Webtop allowed the usage of hardware loadbalancers. A new client usually logged-in into a virtual user directory or it was able to log-in into a system based user directory using single sign-on so eg. the user was able to use his WAP phone to select a document within his home directory to send it to a fax number. A user process shared the memory usage with other client processes. Oracle Cloud Office cannot be compared with developments like StarPortal or Sun ONE Webtop that needed office processes to run on client side. Oracle Cloud Office used the ODF file format to render it by using JavaScript. OTOH bulk document conversions were done by an office process on server side. Oracle Cloud Office scaled far better. Am 18.01.2013 04:16, schrieb Fernando Cassia: I remember Sun -or perhaps it was StarDivision- once sold a StarOffice network computing edition, basically what I think it did was install a OO.o/SO Server on a LAN, and remote users connected -over VNC or likewise thin-client protocol- via a Java applet in their browsers, to the StarOffice app. So, has anyone played with such a setup in OpenOffice ? Notice I don´t want to give remote users access to the full desktop or a remote Linux desktop session, just the application. In other words, what I mean is the VNC-ization of the OO app... Kind regards, Joost
Re: OpenOffice thin client edition - why not?
On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 5:44 AM, Joost Andrae joost.and...@gmx.de wrote: Oracle Cloud Office cannot be compared with developments like StarPortal or Sun ONE Webtop that needed office processes to run on client side. Oracle Cloud Office used the ODF file format to render it by using JavaScript. OTOH bulk document conversions were done by an office process on server side. Oracle Cloud Office scaled far better. Joost, Very interesting information. However, I never,ever ever ever mentioned any ORCL product so I don´t know why you bring that up :) Personally, I´d just envisioned a way to put Apache OpenOffice on my Linux server and be able to acess it from my Nokia N800 tablet running Mer Linux and a VNC client, among other older systems, but in a seamless way, not running a full vnc session with Linux windows manager etc I also have a pair of IBM Network Stations (powerpc) that I can use as thin clients by booting the FreeBSD port tailored for those. FC -- During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un Acto Revolucionario - George Orwell
Re: OpenOffice thin client edition - why not?
On 18 January 2013 09:16, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 5:44 AM, Joost Andrae joost.and...@gmx.de wrote: Oracle Cloud Office cannot be compared with developments like StarPortal or Sun ONE Webtop that needed office processes to run on client side. Oracle Cloud Office used the ODF file format to render it by using JavaScript. OTOH bulk document conversions were done by an office process on server side. Oracle Cloud Office scaled far better. Joost, Very interesting information. However, I never,ever ever ever mentioned any ORCL product so I don´t know why you bring that up :) Personally, I´d just envisioned a way to put Apache OpenOffice on my Linux server and be able to acess it from my Nokia N800 tablet running Mer Linux and a VNC client, among other older systems, but in a seamless way, not running a full vnc session with Linux windows manager etc I also have a pair of IBM Network Stations (powerpc) that I can use as thin clients by booting the FreeBSD port tailored for those. What we really need is a cloud version of AOO like Google Docs. Even MS now realises that this is the way to go with 365. It is going to take time but I see the emphasis shifting to on-line office tools with an option to work off line. Given that it will take several years of development to get something on a par with Google, unless this work starts very soon it could well be too late. It might even be already. If there is a standards compliant on-line suite it then is less of a problem worrying about porting to every different mobile and desktop device. -- During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un Acto Revolucionario - George Orwell -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales.
Re: OpenOffice thin client edition - why not?
On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 9:43 AM, Ian Lynch ianrly...@gmail.com wrote: What we really need is a cloud version of AOO like Google Docs. We don´t *need* ONE thing. That´s the beauty of open source, ´we´ could do *several* things. I for one don´t ´need´ an AJAX / HTML5 version of AOO... GDocs is fine... I personally think browser based apps are a pig, and doing apps in JScript is insane. I had Chrome open the other day just with GMail and it was using over 150 MB of RAM A thin client virtualized version on the other hand would use the PC´s CPU and horsepower and deliver great speed to even to lowest powered devices. But of course, that´s going in a different direction from the current fad FC
Re: OpenOffice thin client edition - why not?
On 18 January 2013 13:18, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 9:43 AM, Ian Lynch ianrly...@gmail.com wrote: What we really need is a cloud version of AOO like Google Docs. We don´t *need* ONE thing. That´s the beauty of open source, ´we´ could do *several* things. Well yes, but it is more efficient to do one thing that covers many needs rather than try and do many things with not enough resource. I for one don´t ´need´ an AJAX / HTML5 version of AOO... GDocs is fine... A lot of people would say yes but GDocs is not open source. Some people would say MS Office is fine and others would say Koffice. Question is whether or not we want a long term sustainable project for the community or one that will get more and more marginalised. I personally think browser based apps are a pig, and doing apps in JScript is insane. I had Chrome open the other day just with GMail and it was using over 150 MB of RAM... Not really a big problem with modern multi-gig computers (including future mobile technologies). Less of a problem than stuff that only works on one device or needs a lot of effort to port across multi-devices, operating systems etc. To me open standards are worth paying a bit of a price for in terms of machine resources since the latter continue to grow and get less expensive. A thin client virtualized version on the other hand would use the PC´s CPU and horsepower and deliver great speed to even to lowest powered devices. Assuming you have someone to host it for you. O a global scale that is not trivial to do which is probably why Google with all its resources does what it does. But of course, that´s going in a different direction from the current fad Swimming against global trends is not a sensible idea when you have very limited resources and very little time. FC -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales.
Re: OpenOffice thin client edition - why not?
On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 11:21 AM, Ian Lynch ianrly...@gmail.com wrote: Swimming against global trends is not a sensible idea when you have very limited resources and very little time. Never implied that. Just said it´d be cool to have the current AOO edition repurposed -or extended- to also serve thin clients over VNC would be useful. That is adding a wrapper or connector or middleware -call it as you want- not re-engineering everything. Of course that doesn´t prevent or deter AOO project leaders from going Ajax, HTML5 or whatever fancy inefficient trend comes next. FC -- During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un Acto Revolucionario - George Orwell
Re: OpenOffice thin client edition - why not?
Hi, I for one don´t ´need´ an AJAX / HTML5 version of AOO... GDocs is fine... I personally think browser based apps are a pig, and doing apps in JScript is insane. I had Chrome open the other day just with GMail and it was using over 150 MB of RAM A thin client virtualized version on the other hand would use the PC´s CPU and horsepower and deliver great speed to even to lowest powered devices. I'd prefer to have a web server based application which I could setup at home and what I could configure it to be used from everywhere I have IP access (private cloud) to. The data transmission should run in a secure way (at least via https) and it should include a login mechanism to access it. Basing the application development on ODF file format features for this webapp would ease it's deployment because files created with this webapp would automatically be compatible to AOO. And a webapp can be configured to run on whatever client you want it to run on. Wether it uses JS or some other technology is not that important as well as it's not that important to have a document that is rendered 100% like within AOO. More important is the ability to modify documents on the go eg. from a mobile. Kind regards, Joost
Re: OpenOffice thin client edition - why not?
On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Joost Andrae joost.and...@gmx.de wrote: More important is the ability to modify documents on the go eg. from a mobile. Yes, and you can do that with an html5/ajax version hosted somewhere -you´d need a web server-, or also by logging into your AOO copy at home with a VNC client for Android/iPad... Two approaches for the same solution. VNC is less work so it can be done faster. ;) A new project at SourceForge dubbed VNCSara allows one to encapsulate a VNC session on http / https thus passing thru firewalls and NAT... OK, enough babbling. Food for thought anyway... FC
Re: OpenOffice thin client edition - why not?
Hi, Yes, and you can do that with an html5/ajax version hosted somewhere -you´d need a web server-, or also by logging into your AOO copy at home with a VNC client for Android/iPad... but I don't want to render the application. It's better to work on the document by using an API of it's file format (like ODFDOM) instead. Please have a look here to understand what I mean: http://incubator.apache.org/odftoolkit/ Kind regards, Joost
Re: OpenOffice thin client edition - why not?
On 13-01-18, at 15:48 , Ian Lynch ianrly...@gmail.com wrote: On 18 January 2013 17:41, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 7:53 PM, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: It wasnt an edition more like a mode, you did $ soffice -net and you can have variou users conenected, there was a pertner that even did some Active Directory authentication. http://openofficetechnology.com/products/OpenOffice-Enterprise I'm happy this option is being discussed/brought up here. Some older documentation still references this -net option in basically two different approaches. The first one is just using a central server install area to install to many desktops (multi-user installation): http://www.openoffice.org/docs/setup_guide/mu_install.html The second bit of information covers what we seem to be discussing here (network installation, onerunnable copy, indiviudal user options): http://www.openoffice.org/installation/proposals/netinstall.html We've had few queries about OpenOffice for large installations -- like 1000+ end-users. A true network type approach might be valuable for them. Without easy set up on many clients we can forget the schools market. The easier it is to access without having specialist technical support the more likely mass take up. Here in the UK there are about 3500 high schools with an average of about 800 users each. Similar number but more fragmented in primary schools. There is a big shift taking place to mobile technologies and a great opportunity. However, schools want to support mobile technologies, byod, flipped classrooms etc, the innovator/early adopters are not going to simply substitute one desktop office suite for another. What they want is software that supports their new way of working and things like collaborative spreadsheets where several people can work on the same model concurrently have significant educational advantage. Actually it has business advantage too - I regularly share models like this in Google with colleagues in several other countries. Desktop Excel and Calc are simply not an option. I'm working on this and others are too. Others include some very good others. I'm the management type and the community coordinator type. But what Ian says is true. (Unlike everything else he says—no, I mean that about Lance!) Cheers louis -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales.
Re: OpenOffice thin client edition - why not?
On 18 January 2013 22:16, Louis Suárez-Potts lui...@gmail.com wrote: On 13-01-18, at 15:48 , Ian Lynch ianrly...@gmail.com wrote: On 18 January 2013 17:41, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 7:53 PM, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: It wasnt an edition more like a mode, you did $ soffice -net and you can have variou users conenected, there was a pertner that even did some Active Directory authentication. http://openofficetechnology.com/products/OpenOffice-Enterprise I'm happy this option is being discussed/brought up here. Some older documentation still references this -net option in basically two different approaches. The first one is just using a central server install area to install to many desktops (multi-user installation): http://www.openoffice.org/docs/setup_guide/mu_install.html The second bit of information covers what we seem to be discussing here (network installation, onerunnable copy, indiviudal user options): http://www.openoffice.org/installation/proposals/netinstall.html We've had few queries about OpenOffice for large installations -- like 1000+ end-users. A true network type approach might be valuable for them. Without easy set up on many clients we can forget the schools market. The easier it is to access without having specialist technical support the more likely mass take up. Here in the UK there are about 3500 high schools with an average of about 800 users each. Similar number but more fragmented in primary schools. There is a big shift taking place to mobile technologies and a great opportunity. However, schools want to support mobile technologies, byod, flipped classrooms etc, the innovator/early adopters are not going to simply substitute one desktop office suite for another. What they want is software that supports their new way of working and things like collaborative spreadsheets where several people can work on the same model concurrently have significant educational advantage. Actually it has business advantage too - I regularly share models like this in Google with colleagues in several other countries. Desktop Excel and Calc are simply not an option. I'm working on this and others are too. Others include some very good others. I'm the management type and the community coordinator type. But what Ian says is true. (Unlike everything else he says—no, I mean that about Lance!) Just to say I have evidence of being genuine on the Lance front :-) I was a member of the first random out of competition drug testing for powerlifters in the UK. We got the competitors to test other competitors so there was no incentive to condone the abuse. That dies of course rely on having at least a significant minority of drug free competitors! :-) Cheers louis -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales.
OpenOffice thin client edition - why not?
I remember Sun -or perhaps it was StarDivision- once sold a StarOffice network computing edition, basically what I think it did was install a OO.o/SO Server on a LAN, and remote users connected -over VNC or likewise thin-client protocol- via a Java applet in their browsers, to the StarOffice app. So, has anyone played with such a setup in OpenOffice ? Notice I don´t want to give remote users access to the full desktop or a remote Linux desktop session, just the application. In other words, what I mean is the VNC-ization of the OO app... Ideally, a server could be set up with each app (Calc, Writer, Impress) on different tcpip ports so users could start with a new document directly by using a different URL. Perhaps this exists already, I´m not sure. The components to do so clearly are out there... for instance TightVNC (GPL) has a Java applet viewer with ssh http://www.tightvnc.com/ssh-java-vnc-viewer.php I´m surprised no one has made a ready-made fire and forget installer for this kind of setup. Thoughts? comments? -TIA FC -- During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un Acto Revolucionario - George Orwell
Re: OpenOffice thin client edition - why not?
On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 10:16 PM, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote: I remember Sun -or perhaps it was StarDivision- once sold a StarOffice network computing edition, basically what I think it did was install a OO.o/SO Server on a LAN, and remote users connected -over VNC or likewise thin-client protocol- via a Java applet in their browsers, to the StarOffice app. So, has anyone played with such a setup in OpenOffice ? Notice I don´t want to give remote users access to the full desktop or a remote Linux desktop session, just the application. In other words, what I mean is the VNC-ization of the OO app... rollApp appears to do some form of GUI virtualization, but to an iPad: https://www.rollapp.com/OpenOffice The tablet is the new thin client, yes? They use DropBox and Google Drive as the file stores for user documents. -Rob Ideally, a server could be set up with each app (Calc, Writer, Impress) on different tcpip ports so users could start with a new document directly by using a different URL. Perhaps this exists already, I´m not sure. The components to do so clearly are out there... for instance TightVNC (GPL) has a Java applet viewer with ssh http://www.tightvnc.com/ssh-java-vnc-viewer.php I´m surprised no one has made a ready-made fire and forget installer for this kind of setup. Thoughts? comments? -TIA FC -- During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un Acto Revolucionario - George Orwell
Re: OpenOffice thin client edition - why not?
It wasnt an edition more like a mode, you did $ soffice -net and you can have variou users conenected, there was a pertner that even did some Active Directory authentication. http://openofficetechnology.com/products/OpenOffice-Enterprise On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 9:24 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 10:16 PM, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote: I remember Sun -or perhaps it was StarDivision- once sold a StarOffice network computing edition, basically what I think it did was install a OO.o/SO Server on a LAN, and remote users connected -over VNC or likewise thin-client protocol- via a Java applet in their browsers, to the StarOffice app. So, has anyone played with such a setup in OpenOffice ? Notice I don´t want to give remote users access to the full desktop or a remote Linux desktop session, just the application. In other words, what I mean is the VNC-ization of the OO app... rollApp appears to do some form of GUI virtualization, but to an iPad: https://www.rollapp.com/OpenOffice The tablet is the new thin client, yes? They use DropBox and Google Drive as the file stores for user documents. -Rob Ideally, a server could be set up with each app (Calc, Writer, Impress) on different tcpip ports so users could start with a new document directly by using a different URL. Perhaps this exists already, I´m not sure. The components to do so clearly are out there... for instance TightVNC (GPL) has a Java applet viewer with ssh http://www.tightvnc.com/ssh-java-vnc-viewer.php I´m surprised no one has made a ready-made fire and forget installer for this kind of setup. Thoughts? comments? -TIA FC -- During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un Acto Revolucionario - George Orwell -- Alexandro Colorado Apache OpenOffice Contributor http://es.openoffice.org
Re: OpenOffice thin client edition - why not?
Am Freitag, 18. Januar 2013 um 05:18 schrieb Fernando Cassia: On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 12:53 AM, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: It wasnt an edition more like a mode, you did $ soffice -net and you can have variou users conenected, there was a pertner that even did some Active Directory authentication. http://openofficetechnology.com/products/OpenOffice-Enterprise I think you mix some things here Yea but was that code ever part of OO.o ? guess not... no Wouldn´t it be nice to package AOO for easy thin client operation? Like Rob says... iPads are the new thin clients... having a solution for this kind of devices would be of course nice. Juergen And IMHO what yesterday was considered Network Computing could be today´s private cloud. :) FC
Re: OpenOffice thin client edition - why not?
Hello All, I see a shift in how people capture and manage content. We need to make it easy for people to get ideas into the tools, help them organize the content, make it look the way they want and share the content. Managing files is not an enjoyable part of this story. Evernote's approach is gaining market share. We need something that is positioned between web editors and thick clients. Something where the assets are managed by the tools. Just a thought. Kevin On Jan 18, 2013, at 2:59 PM, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 4:35 AM, Juergen Schmidt jogischm...@gmail.com wrote: having a solution for this kind of devices would be of course nice. I´m not thinking cloud as in Google´s cloud but more like my PC as server and any thin-client device on my home as client. In fact, I think the RDP or VNC protocol are enough. In other words, as engineers say, let´s keep it according to the K.I.S.S. principle. ;) By googling around I was able to find VNC clients for iPads, Android devices etc... so with VNC it´d be ´good enough´ and working on a local LAN, it´d have no bandwidth issues associated with residential broadband connections´ limited upstream and the like... Just my $0.02 of course FC -- During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un Acto Revolucionario - George Orwell
