Re: Wrongful information on the Wikipedia

[Wolf Halton]

One solution is to write small but hopeful press releases of progress on the 
blog or otherwhere and have someone else update wikipedia. 

Wolf Halton
Atlanta Cloud Technology
Broadening Your Vision to Broaden Your Reach
678-687-6104
--
Sent from my iPhone. Creative word completion courtesy of Apple, Inc. 

> On Sep 3, 2015, at 5:12 PM, Phillip Rhodes  wrote:
> 
> I just looked at the Wikipedia page and don't see anything that's -
> strictly speaking - incorrect, or lacking citations.  IOW, I don't see any
> supportable rationale for removing anything that's there, although one
> could question the motives of whoever made it a point to call out some
> concerns about lack of activity in the first paragaph of the article.
> Nonetheless, I think any attempt to modify that will face opposition.
> 
> In a related vein, The Guardian recently ran this article titled "Should I
> Switch From Apache OpenOffice to LibreOffice or Microsoft Office".
> http://www.theguardian.com/technology/askjack/2015/sep/03/switch-openoffice-libreoffice-or-microsoft-office
> 
> I don't know if there's any easy way to counter this narrative that's
> spreading through the press, about AOO being dead/dormant/whatever, or how
> LO is clearly "the winner", but it's definitely unfortunate to see this
> kind of stuff spread around so widely.  :-(
> 
> 
> Phil
> 
> 
> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
> 
>> On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Louis Suárez-Potts  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Max,
>> 
>>> On 03 Sep 15, at 16:31, Max Merbald  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi there,
>>> 
>>> the Engish Wikipedia claims that AOO is dormant. I can't see where they
>> have the information from. The sources they use don't say so. I think it's
>> definitely bad for OpenOffice when people think no more is done about it.
>> The problem is also that LibreOffice has just published its version 5.0 and
>> is getting ahead of us.
>> 
>> thanks for the alert.
>> 
>> Wikipedia is composed by a crowd of editors, and you can change the entry
>> to reflect the facts.
>> 
>> So can anyone on this list. Becoming an editor at Wikipedia is not arduous.
>> 
>> Louis
>>> 
>>> Max
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -
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>> 
>> 
>> -
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>> 

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Re: ODF Plugfest: participation and leaflets

[Roberto Galoppini]

2015-09-04 5:06 GMT+02:00 Louis Suárez-Potts :

> Hi all,
> Comments inline.
>
>
> > On 03 Sep 15, at 16:24, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
> >
> > As we discussed some weeks ago, the next ODF Plugfest will be held in
> The Hague, Netherlands, mid-September:
> > http://plugfest.opendocumentformat.org/2015-thehague/programme/
> >
> > There are three issues that require attention in a very short time.
> Deadline is 8 September when not otherwise specified.
> >
> > 1) Is anyone going in the end? We discussed this at length. I've never
> considered going since it overlaps with another event I'm scheduled to
> attend. Dennis and Roberto were both mentioned (and Dennis later clarified
> he is busy in the US). Of course if someone goes we can still discuss to
> allocate a budget from our events fund.
>

When I made plans to go I didn't know about much about my calendar of
business meetings. As of now I can't commit to that trip, unfortunately.



>
> The event somewhat overlaps with a personal engagement but that may be
> negotiable. It depends on how much subsidy we have to support this very
> late trip—of mine, I mean. I’d be coming from Toronto, Canada. A quick
> price check via Orbitz reveals that for a flight via the dodgy Air Transat
> the cost (R/T) would be about 740 USD. Include an Airbnb room—don’t know
> how much that would be but probably not that much, though still, for three
> days, at leasts 150 USD, and probably more. (I’m guessing the Hague is
> costly.) Besides Air Transat, the average price for airfare to AMS is about
> 1300 USD; to the Hague (Rotterdam) 500 USD more or so. I’m guessing a train
> trip from AMS is cheaper.
>
> I’ve been to several of these events, including, I think, the initiating
> one. I know ODF fairly well, was on the Oasis TCs, etc. (I quit them a
> couple of years ago.) The drawback for me going is I’m not developing ODF
> or for ODF and though I can certainly represent AOO’s continued interest in
> furthering usage of ODF, not to mention other Apache projects’ ODF work, to
> some extent I’ll be mostly competent at relaying speech.
>

I agree, and I think it would be important to give a speech about our
concerns around office formats' interoperability.
I believe we can still ask Michiel or Basil to accommodate a similar ask.


>
>
> >
> > 2) I was contacted (for no special reason; I've never attended a
> Plugfest) by Basil Cousins of Openforum Europe, who gave me permission to
> forward his request here, about updating a leaflet for the next ODF
> Plugfest. The 2014 version is here:
> >
> http://openforumeurope.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/OFE-COIS-DFD-ODF-Open-Document-Principles-for-Government-Technology-March-2015.pdf
> > and there is also an infographic available at
> http://www.openforumeurope.org/library/odf-toolkit-2/
> > Can you please suggest content updates to this leaflet? Basil in is CC.
> We can discuss updates on this list and then one of us, ideally someone who
> attends the event, can send the final comments to Basil. The part needing
> more attention is the Applications Choices section on page 5.
>
> I can look at it, too. But others, here, can surely weigh in. I think we
> have talent to enhance this, no?
>
> >
> > 3) For this leaflet they also ask for a contribution for printing. One
> can support printing the English version (addressed to UK government), the
> Dutch version (addressed to Dutch government) or both. The contribution is
> 100 GBP (so about 135 EUR or 150 USD) for each edition. If you feel it
> would be useful, I assume that the fund for events and merchandising could
> be used to support this. Please state if you propose that we allocate
> budget and, in case it's a yes, if you'd rather contribute to the English
> version or both versions.
>
> I think it would be money well spent.
>

Agree for the English version, as far as we can also enrich its content,
though.

Roberto



> Note. This ODF Plugfest brings together some rather important players form
> the UK, which is supposedly tending toward it. Independent of any
> particular implementation’s concerns or desires, it is, as Roberto G.
> pointed out, important that there be *real* solid interest in working with
> the government to satisfy their mandate.
>
>
> >
> > Regards,
> >  Andrea.
> >
> -best
> louis
>
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> >
>
>
> -
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>
>

Re: openoffice.org website - please change my name

[Marcus]

Am 09/04/2015 12:39 PM, schrieb David Sterr:

I'm very sorry, did not see your response and thank you very much and yes,
unfortunately it was not possible to write from this old mail address since I'm
out of this company for 2 years.

Is it possible to add my new company, because I was / I'am the guy using
openoffice on company computers?


sure, from the webpage you can see what information is needed. So, just 
write it here what you want to have and I'll add it.


Have a nice weekend, too.

Marcus




 Marcus
 04. September 2015 12:27
 Hi Dave,

 maybe you haven't seen my previous mail (see from August, 30th), it's OK to
 write to this mailing list for any change requests.

 As it is obviously not possible to write a mail from you old mail account
 anymore, I've changed the data on the mentioned webpage anyway.

 Marcus





 -
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
 For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org

 David Sterr
 03. September 2015 21:56
 Hi,

 I'm sorry I have to write a second time: Who is responsible for this
 https://www.openoffice.org/de/marketing/referenzkunden.html list?

 I am at a new company and do not want that my name is listed with the old one
 - so can you please tell me how I can contact the webmaster of this subpage?


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org

Re: openoffice.org website - please change my name

[Marcus]

Hi Dave,

maybe you haven't seen my previous mail (see from August, 30th), it's OK 
to write to this mailing list for any change requests.


As it is obviously not possible to write a mail from you old mail 
account anymore, I've changed the data on the mentioned webpage anyway.


Marcus



Am 09/03/2015 09:56 PM, schrieb David Sterr:

I'm sorry I have to write a second time: Who is responsible for this
https://www.openoffice.org/de/marketing/referenzkunden.html list?

I am at a new company and do not want that my name is listed with the
old one - so can you please tell me how I can contact the webmaster of
this subpage?


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org

Re: FW: [DISCUSSION] ODF Plugfest, September 2015

[Roberto Galoppini]

2015-09-04 0:14 GMT+02:00 Dennis E. Hamilton :

> More information about the Plugfest for some who might not have noticed
> earlier.
>
> I have edited this lightly to reflect the current status in my case.
>
> - Dennis
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:orc...@apache.org]
> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2015 15:31
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: [DISCUSSION] ODF Plugfest, September 2015 (was RE: [NOMINATION]
> Dennis Hamilton ... )
>
> Roberto mentions the forthcoming ODF Plugfest to be held September 15-16
> at the Hague.
>
> WHAT THE ODF PLUGFEST IS
>
> Information about the Plugfest is on this Wiki page:
> <
> http://plugtest.opendocsociety.org/doku.php?id=plugfests:201509_thehague:info
> >.
>
> To see how these have operated, it is useful to look at the programs of
> prior plugfests starting with the two in 2009 (although some of the
> historical material seems to consist of placeholders).
>
> I have not been to any of these except vicariously as a member of the
> OASIS ODF Interoperability and Conformance (OIC) Technical Committee and as
> a participant in some of the planning.
>
> I see three matters that are useful to be present for.  Anyone could
> attend to participate as a contributor to Apache OpenOffice in those events:
>
>  1. The presentations on ODF adoption and also on developments of the ODF
> specifications
>  2. The subsequent presentations on implementation efforts, where 8 are
> listed so far, including Apache OpenOffice.
>  3. The Interop testing that occupies the remainder of the first day and
> all of the second day.  For this, it is desirable to show up with
> demonstration and test documents to interchanges and then inspect
> implementations.  This activity tends to be conducted in confidence,
> regrettably.  There is a sample scenario template to use in presenting
> tests.
>
> AOO PARTICIPATION
>
> For AOO, it would be good to have some simple presentation of status for
> (2) and to have some contributions (3) of tests or exemplary documents for
> which interoperability is a concern.
>
> Roberto has been on the calls for organization of the Plugtest and it is
> valuable that he is doing so.  His keeping us apprised of what AOO might do
> to contribute and to participate will be very helpful.
>
> I think if we create a portfolio of tests and a few slides on the status
> of AOO by mid-September, anyone could be present as an AOO participant.
>
> The Plugfests are obviously more amenable to participation by ODF experts
> and implementers that are based in Europe and we have able members of the
> AOO community there.
>
> MY PERSONAL PARTICIPATION
>
> I have always wanted to go to a Plugfest and never managed to arrange it.
> I think we have many able spokespersons.
>
> I do not have the means to travel to The Netherlands for this event.  I am
> willing to go, although it would be valuable to at least have someone more
> technically involved around interoperability testing.  I don't think it is
> necessary to have someone be an official of some form, whether PMC member
> or a Chair
>
> [Note: I learned that, in addition to not having the means, I have a
> conflict. ]
>
>
> Here at dev@ we can work up a status report that anyone could deliver and
> also development of any contributions to the interoperability testing that
> would be useful for cross-implementation demonstration/confirmation in
> those sessions.
>
> I am happy to cooperate in any way I can in the development of such
> materials.  I trust Roberto will continue to participate on the calls
> (since they tend to be at 6am in my local time).
>

I will surely do if any will be set, but I guess for this ODF-Plugfest
we're done. If someone - not me, as per my message on another thread I
can't commit to this now - is willing to go, we better give heads up to the
organizers so that a talk of us can be added to the agenda.

Roberto



>
> [Note: That was in July.  This is September already and my ability to
> assist here is severely limited, although I will do what I can.]
>
>  - Dennis
>
> [ ... ]
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: Ian Lynch (ingotian) passed away

[Roberto Galoppini]

That's very sad, I e-met him about 10 years ago, we also tried to run some
business together when I was in the OOo business. I always found his
feedback and inputs valuable, he will be greatly missed and I wish all the
best to his family and relatives.


Roberto

2015-09-04 11:19 GMT+02:00 Marcus :

> I'm very sad to hear that Ian is no longer with us. Unfortunately, I had
> not the pleasure to meet him in person or to do some work with him.
>
> Marcus
>
>
>
> Am 09/04/2015 12:01 AM, schrieb Andrea Pescetti:
>
>> I was astonished to learn, a couple days ago, that Ian Lynch passed
>> away. Many of you were probably closer to him and already got the news
>> (Ian passed away three months ago) but I don't recall reading it on the
>> OpenOffice lists.
>>
>> I had never met Ian, but I knew him as a key contributor in the
>> Education sector. He was also an OpenOffice committer and PMC Member;
>> his Apache id was "ingotian".
>>
>> I hope that someone who knew him better will volunteer and write a
>> couple paragraphs for the OpenOffice blog in his memory.
>>
>> See http://www.opensourceconsortium.org/ian-lynch/ for more details.
>>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: openoffice.org website - please change my name

[Marcus]

Just to make it complete:

I've added David's data to the website on request by private mail.

Marcus



Am 09/04/2015 01:55 PM, schrieb Marcus:

Am 09/04/2015 12:39 PM, schrieb David Sterr:

I'm very sorry, did not see your response and thank you very much and
yes,
unfortunately it was not possible to write from this old mail address
since I'm
out of this company for 2 years.

Is it possible to add my new company, because I was / I'am the guy using
openoffice on company computers?


sure, from the webpage you can see what information is needed. So, just
write it here what you want to have and I'll add it.

Have a nice weekend, too.

Marcus




Marcus
04. September 2015 12:27
Hi Dave,

maybe you haven't seen my previous mail (see from August, 30th), it's
OK to
write to this mailing list for any change requests.

As it is obviously not possible to write a mail from you old mail
account
anymore, I've changed the data on the mentioned webpage anyway.

Marcus





-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org

David Sterr
03. September 2015 21:56
Hi,

I'm sorry I have to write a second time: Who is responsible for this
https://www.openoffice.org/de/marketing/referenzkunden.html list?

I am at a new company and do not want that my name is listed with the
old one
- so can you please tell me how I can contact the webmaster of this
subpage?


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org

Re: Ian Lynch (ingotian) passed away

[Marcus]

I'm very sad to hear that Ian is no longer with us. Unfortunately, I had 
not the pleasure to meet him in person or to do some work with him.


Marcus



Am 09/04/2015 12:01 AM, schrieb Andrea Pescetti:

I was astonished to learn, a couple days ago, that Ian Lynch passed
away. Many of you were probably closer to him and already got the news
(Ian passed away three months ago) but I don't recall reading it on the
OpenOffice lists.

I had never met Ian, but I knew him as a key contributor in the
Education sector. He was also an OpenOffice committer and PMC Member;
his Apache id was "ingotian".

I hope that someone who knew him better will volunteer and write a
couple paragraphs for the OpenOffice blog in his memory.

See http://www.opensourceconsortium.org/ian-lynch/ for more details.


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org

Re: openoffice.org website - please change my name

[David Sterr]

Hi Marcus,

I'm very sorry, did not see your response and thank you very much and 
yes, unfortunately it was not possible to write from this old mail 
address since I'm out of this company for 2 years.


Is it possible to add my new company, because I was / I'am the guy using 
openoffice on company computers?


Thank you very much in advance and a happy weekend, best regards, David


Marcus 
04. September 2015 12:27
Hi Dave,

maybe you haven't seen my previous mail (see from August, 30th), it's 
OK to write to this mailing list for any change requests.


As it is obviously not possible to write a mail from you old mail 
account anymore, I've changed the data on the mentioned webpage anyway.


Marcus





-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org

David Sterr 
03. September 2015 21:56
Hi,

I'm sorry I have to write a second time: Who is responsible for this 
https://www.openoffice.org/de/marketing/referenzkunden.html list?


I am at a new company and do not want that my name is listed with the 
old one - so can you please tell me how I can contact the webmaster of 
this subpage?


Best regards, Dave

Re: [DISCUSSION] ODF Plugfest, September 2015

[Louis Suárez-Potts]

Hi

> On 04 Sep 15, at 07:42, Roberto Galoppini  wrote:
>> 
>> Here at dev@ we can work up a status report that anyone could deliver and
>> also development of any contributions to the interoperability testing that
>> would be useful for cross-implementation demonstration/confirmation in
>> those sessions.
>> 
>> I am happy to cooperate in any way I can in the development of such
>> materials.  I trust Roberto will continue to participate on the calls
>> (since they tend to be at 6am in my local time).
>> 
> 
> I will surely do if any will be set, but I guess for this ODF-Plugfest
> we're done. If someone - not me, as per my message on another thread I
> can't commit to this now - is willing to go, we better give heads up to the
> organizers so that a talk of us can be added to the agenda.
> 
> Roberto
> 



Status, then, is:

* We need to update the English flyer that OpenDocs Society has created. 
Roberto (or DH) seem to think this is a PMC-level decision. Be that as it may, 
I think it’s in our interest as ODF implementers to do it. 

* We are agreed that it would be good to have an AOO representative at the 
upcoming ODF Plugfest. "Upcoming" is an understatement; it’s nearly imminent, 
15& 16 September of this year. 

* Roberto cannot go. Andrea cannot go. Dennis (whose has invested a lot of time 
into ODF matters) cannot go. I may be able to go but would need to have my 
travel taken care of by our bursary. As I live in Toronto, it’s bound to be 
more expensive than someone coming from Europe. 

- Rob would also be a choice, as he used to lead, and may still, the Oasis TC, 
where ODF matters are decided (or not…). Rob? Rob would also encounter the same 
Atlantic as I, and as he is with a large company, there may be issues with him 
accepting AOO funds. (There were such issues when I was with large 
corporations.)

Why is this event important? The UK government back in 2014 announced its ODF 
desires for a large swath of public documents. Other governmental entities in 
other parts of continental Europe, have been hedging towards ODF or at least 
away from 20th-century style desktop/intranet installations and toward what 
could be a future (or just a lousy investment). This ODF plugfest has several 
of the governmental practitioners presenting or attending. 

Our concern is that they look to AOO and see…. nada. An absence the would 
confirm what the tech journos love writing about us, that we’re dead, dying, 
and worse, stifle the living communities. 


I don’t think those representations are justified at all, and I would hate for 
them to be given the semblance of truth by our absence 

But this is not the only Plugfest that will happen nor is it the first that has 
taken place since the UK gov’t’s announcement. The world will not come to an 
end because we do not show. But it would be better if we did.

Finally, if we do need to take a PMC vote on updating the English flyer, then 
let’s get that going. Personally, I’d just think that if someone wants to 
tackle it, please, go ahead and drag in whomever else you want and is willing 
to help out. Why do we need to add yet more bureaucracy to this?

Because to print out a lot of the flyers and make them look glossy and cool, 
that takes money, which we can spend, but only after the PMC has voted on doing 
so. Hence the PMC vote.

-louis
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Re: ODF Plugfest: participation and leaflets

[Roberto Galoppini]

Hi Basil,

 Nice to catch up again. I want to clarify that here I'm expressing only my
opinion, we do need the PMC to establish if we want - as a community - to
sponsor the English version.

Thanks,

2015-09-04 14:31 GMT+02:00 Basil Cousins :

> Hi Roberto,
>
> Great to be in touch.  I will ask Graham Taylor to raise an invoice for
> £100+VAT to cover the English Version.
> Can you let us have the address to be put on the invoice?
>
> Shal we use the same logo as in the London version for Apache Open Office
> or is there a more recent one?
>
> Basil
>
> Basil
>
> On 4 September 2015 at 12:38, Roberto Galoppini <
> roberto.galopp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> 2015-09-04 5:06 GMT+02:00 Louis Suárez-Potts :
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> Comments inline.
>>>
>>>
>>> > On 03 Sep 15, at 16:24, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
>>> >
>>> > As we discussed some weeks ago, the next ODF Plugfest will be held in
>>> The Hague, Netherlands, mid-September:
>>> > http://plugfest.opendocumentformat.org/2015-thehague/programme/
>>> >
>>> > There are three issues that require attention in a very short time.
>>> Deadline is 8 September when not otherwise specified.
>>> >
>>> > 1) Is anyone going in the end? We discussed this at length. I've never
>>> considered going since it overlaps with another event I'm scheduled to
>>> attend. Dennis and Roberto were both mentioned (and Dennis later clarified
>>> he is busy in the US). Of course if someone goes we can still discuss to
>>> allocate a budget from our events fund.
>>>
>>
>> When I made plans to go I didn't know about much about my calendar of
>> business meetings. As of now I can't commit to that trip, unfortunately.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> The event somewhat overlaps with a personal engagement but that may be
>>> negotiable. It depends on how much subsidy we have to support this very
>>> late trip—of mine, I mean. I’d be coming from Toronto, Canada. A quick
>>> price check via Orbitz reveals that for a flight via the dodgy Air Transat
>>> the cost (R/T) would be about 740 USD. Include an Airbnb room—don’t know
>>> how much that would be but probably not that much, though still, for three
>>> days, at leasts 150 USD, and probably more. (I’m guessing the Hague is
>>> costly.) Besides Air Transat, the average price for airfare to AMS is about
>>> 1300 USD; to the Hague (Rotterdam) 500 USD more or so. I’m guessing a train
>>> trip from AMS is cheaper.
>>>
>>> I’ve been to several of these events, including, I think, the initiating
>>> one. I know ODF fairly well, was on the Oasis TCs, etc. (I quit them a
>>> couple of years ago.) The drawback for me going is I’m not developing ODF
>>> or for ODF and though I can certainly represent AOO’s continued interest in
>>> furthering usage of ODF, not to mention other Apache projects’ ODF work, to
>>> some extent I’ll be mostly competent at relaying speech.
>>>
>>
>> I agree, and I think it would be important to give a speech about our
>> concerns around office formats' interoperability.
>> I believe we can still ask Michiel or Basil to accommodate a similar ask.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > 2) I was contacted (for no special reason; I've never attended a
>>> Plugfest) by Basil Cousins of Openforum Europe, who gave me permission to
>>> forward his request here, about updating a leaflet for the next ODF
>>> Plugfest. The 2014 version is here:
>>> >
>>> http://openforumeurope.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/OFE-COIS-DFD-ODF-Open-Document-Principles-for-Government-Technology-March-2015.pdf
>>> > and there is also an infographic available at
>>> http://www.openforumeurope.org/library/odf-toolkit-2/
>>> > Can you please suggest content updates to this leaflet? Basil in is
>>> CC. We can discuss updates on this list and then one of us, ideally someone
>>> who attends the event, can send the final comments to Basil. The part
>>> needing more attention is the Applications Choices section on page 5.
>>>
>>> I can look at it, too. But others, here, can surely weigh in. I think we
>>> have talent to enhance this, no?
>>>
>>> >
>>> > 3) For this leaflet they also ask for a contribution for printing. One
>>> can support printing the English version (addressed to UK government), the
>>> Dutch version (addressed to Dutch government) or both. The contribution is
>>> 100 GBP (so about 135 EUR or 150 USD) for each edition. If you feel it
>>> would be useful, I assume that the fund for events and merchandising could
>>> be used to support this. Please state if you propose that we allocate
>>> budget and, in case it's a yes, if you'd rather contribute to the English
>>> version or both versions.
>>>
>>> I think it would be money well spent.
>>>
>>
>> Agree for the English version, as far as we can also enrich its content,
>> though.
>>
>> Roberto
>>
>>
>>
>>> Note. This ODF Plugfest brings together some rather important players
>>> form the UK, which is supposedly tending toward it. Independent of any
>>> particular 

Re: ODF Plugfest: participation and leaflets

[Roberto Galoppini]

Basil,

I'm sure you'll get an answer, but unfortunately I can't commit to provide
you with an answer in a short time frame. Our Chair will sort out a way to
manage this situation, though.

Roberto

2015-09-04 16:25 GMT+02:00 Basil Cousins :

> Roberto,
>
> We need to close very soon.  When can you let me know about English
> version?
>
> Basil
>
> On 4 September 2015 at 15:04, Roberto Galoppini <
> roberto.galopp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Basil,
>>
>>  Nice to catch up again. I want to clarify that here I'm expressing only
>> my opinion, we do need the PMC to establish if we want - as a community -
>> to sponsor the English version.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> 2015-09-04 14:31 GMT+02:00 Basil Cousins :
>>
>>> Hi Roberto,
>>>
>>> Great to be in touch.  I will ask Graham Taylor to raise an invoice for
>>> £100+VAT to cover the English Version.
>>> Can you let us have the address to be put on the invoice?
>>>
>>> Shal we use the same logo as in the London version for Apache Open
>>> Office or is there a more recent one?
>>>
>>> Basil
>>>
>>> Basil
>>>
>>> On 4 September 2015 at 12:38, Roberto Galoppini <
>>> roberto.galopp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>


 2015-09-04 5:06 GMT+02:00 Louis Suárez-Potts :

> Hi all,
> Comments inline.
>
>
> > On 03 Sep 15, at 16:24, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
> >
> > As we discussed some weeks ago, the next ODF Plugfest will be held
> in The Hague, Netherlands, mid-September:
> > http://plugfest.opendocumentformat.org/2015-thehague/programme/
> >
> > There are three issues that require attention in a very short time.
> Deadline is 8 September when not otherwise specified.
> >
> > 1) Is anyone going in the end? We discussed this at length. I've
> never considered going since it overlaps with another event I'm scheduled
> to attend. Dennis and Roberto were both mentioned (and Dennis later
> clarified he is busy in the US). Of course if someone goes we can still
> discuss to allocate a budget from our events fund.
>

 When I made plans to go I didn't know about much about my calendar of
 business meetings. As of now I can't commit to that trip, unfortunately.



>
> The event somewhat overlaps with a personal engagement but that may be
> negotiable. It depends on how much subsidy we have to support this very
> late trip—of mine, I mean. I’d be coming from Toronto, Canada. A quick
> price check via Orbitz reveals that for a flight via the dodgy Air Transat
> the cost (R/T) would be about 740 USD. Include an Airbnb room—don’t know
> how much that would be but probably not that much, though still, for three
> days, at leasts 150 USD, and probably more. (I’m guessing the Hague is
> costly.) Besides Air Transat, the average price for airfare to AMS is 
> about
> 1300 USD; to the Hague (Rotterdam) 500 USD more or so. I’m guessing a 
> train
> trip from AMS is cheaper.
>
> I’ve been to several of these events, including, I think, the
> initiating one. I know ODF fairly well, was on the Oasis TCs, etc. (I quit
> them a couple of years ago.) The drawback for me going is I’m not
> developing ODF or for ODF and though I can certainly represent AOO’s
> continued interest in furthering usage of ODF, not to mention other Apache
> projects’ ODF work, to some extent I’ll be mostly competent at relaying
> speech.
>

 I agree, and I think it would be important to give a speech about our
 concerns around office formats' interoperability.
 I believe we can still ask Michiel or Basil to accommodate a similar
 ask.


>
>
> >
> > 2) I was contacted (for no special reason; I've never attended a
> Plugfest) by Basil Cousins of Openforum Europe, who gave me permission to
> forward his request here, about updating a leaflet for the next ODF
> Plugfest. The 2014 version is here:
> >
> http://openforumeurope.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/OFE-COIS-DFD-ODF-Open-Document-Principles-for-Government-Technology-March-2015.pdf
> > and there is also an infographic available at
> http://www.openforumeurope.org/library/odf-toolkit-2/
> > Can you please suggest content updates to this leaflet? Basil in is
> CC. We can discuss updates on this list and then one of us, ideally 
> someone
> who attends the event, can send the final comments to Basil. The part
> needing more attention is the Applications Choices section on page 5.
>
> I can look at it, too. But others, here, can surely weigh in. I think
> we have talent to enhance this, no?
>
> >
> > 3) For this leaflet they also ask for a contribution for printing.
> One can support printing the English version (addressed to UK government),
> the Dutch version (addressed to 

Re: ODF Plugfest: participation and leaflets

[Basil Cousins]

Roberto,

The designers are pressing us hard.  I will put in Apache OO Logo
 provisionally. OK?

Basil

On 4 September 2015 at 15:37, Roberto Galoppini  wrote:

> Basil,
>
> I'm sure you'll get an answer, but unfortunately I can't commit to provide
> you with an answer in a short time frame. Our Chair will sort out a way to
> manage this situation, though.
>
> Roberto
>
> 2015-09-04 16:25 GMT+02:00 Basil Cousins :
>
>> Roberto,
>>
>> We need to close very soon.  When can you let me know about English
>> version?
>>
>> Basil
>>
>> On 4 September 2015 at 15:04, Roberto Galoppini <
>> roberto.galopp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Basil,
>>>
>>>  Nice to catch up again. I want to clarify that here I'm expressing only
>>> my opinion, we do need the PMC to establish if we want - as a community -
>>> to sponsor the English version.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> 2015-09-04 14:31 GMT+02:00 Basil Cousins :
>>>
 Hi Roberto,

 Great to be in touch.  I will ask Graham Taylor to raise an invoice for
 £100+VAT to cover the English Version.
 Can you let us have the address to be put on the invoice?

 Shal we use the same logo as in the London version for Apache Open
 Office or is there a more recent one?

 Basil

 Basil

 On 4 September 2015 at 12:38, Roberto Galoppini <
 roberto.galopp...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> 2015-09-04 5:06 GMT+02:00 Louis Suárez-Potts :
>
>> Hi all,
>> Comments inline.
>>
>>
>> > On 03 Sep 15, at 16:24, Andrea Pescetti 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > As we discussed some weeks ago, the next ODF Plugfest will be held
>> in The Hague, Netherlands, mid-September:
>> > http://plugfest.opendocumentformat.org/2015-thehague/programme/
>> >
>> > There are three issues that require attention in a very short time.
>> Deadline is 8 September when not otherwise specified.
>> >
>> > 1) Is anyone going in the end? We discussed this at length. I've
>> never considered going since it overlaps with another event I'm scheduled
>> to attend. Dennis and Roberto were both mentioned (and Dennis later
>> clarified he is busy in the US). Of course if someone goes we can still
>> discuss to allocate a budget from our events fund.
>>
>
> When I made plans to go I didn't know about much about my calendar of
> business meetings. As of now I can't commit to that trip, unfortunately.
>
>
>
>>
>> The event somewhat overlaps with a personal engagement but that may
>> be negotiable. It depends on how much subsidy we have to support this 
>> very
>> late trip—of mine, I mean. I’d be coming from Toronto, Canada. A quick
>> price check via Orbitz reveals that for a flight via the dodgy Air 
>> Transat
>> the cost (R/T) would be about 740 USD. Include an Airbnb room—don’t know
>> how much that would be but probably not that much, though still, for 
>> three
>> days, at leasts 150 USD, and probably more. (I’m guessing the Hague is
>> costly.) Besides Air Transat, the average price for airfare to AMS is 
>> about
>> 1300 USD; to the Hague (Rotterdam) 500 USD more or so. I’m guessing a 
>> train
>> trip from AMS is cheaper.
>>
>> I’ve been to several of these events, including, I think, the
>> initiating one. I know ODF fairly well, was on the Oasis TCs, etc. (I 
>> quit
>> them a couple of years ago.) The drawback for me going is I’m not
>> developing ODF or for ODF and though I can certainly represent AOO’s
>> continued interest in furthering usage of ODF, not to mention other 
>> Apache
>> projects’ ODF work, to some extent I’ll be mostly competent at relaying
>> speech.
>>
>
> I agree, and I think it would be important to give a speech about our
> concerns around office formats' interoperability.
> I believe we can still ask Michiel or Basil to accommodate a similar
> ask.
>
>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > 2) I was contacted (for no special reason; I've never attended a
>> Plugfest) by Basil Cousins of Openforum Europe, who gave me permission to
>> forward his request here, about updating a leaflet for the next ODF
>> Plugfest. The 2014 version is here:
>> >
>> http://openforumeurope.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/OFE-COIS-DFD-ODF-Open-Document-Principles-for-Government-Technology-March-2015.pdf
>> > and there is also an infographic available at
>> http://www.openforumeurope.org/library/odf-toolkit-2/
>> > Can you please suggest content updates to this leaflet? Basil in is
>> CC. We can discuss updates on this list and then one of us, ideally 
>> someone
>> who attends the event, can send the final comments to Basil. The part
>> needing more attention is the 

RE: ODF Plugfest: participation and leaflets

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

Stuart,
 
Thank you for your rapid response.
 
I assume 2015-09-08T16:00 is UTC+0100 (BST)?
 
I think there are two matters.
 
First, it would be very useful to know what the modifications to the 
“Application Choices” table are, and also anything new with respect to 
differences concerning the International Standards mentioned and also 
application differences.
 
Secondly, I am concerned that there are various advocacy and high-level claims 
that may be inappropriate for the ASF and, consequently, Apache OpenOffice, to 
appear associated with.  That’s a provisional observation.  Further discussion 
will occur here, I’m certain. 
 
Factors I think the Apache OpenOffice community needs to consider are 
 
1.  The mission of the ASF is “to provide software for the public good,” 
expanded on at http://www.apache.org/foundation/.
   
2.  As part of serving a public interest, the ASF also tasks itself and its 
project to operate as good open-source citizens.  In particular, there are no 
claims or observations made about the work of non-ASF projects and 
non-open-source projects of any kind.  The ASF does not speak to the quality of 
International Standards, either.  I am certain individuals who participate on 
ASF Projects have many views of their own about this.  As far as I know, the 
ASF does not make that its business just the same.
   
3.  To the best of my knowledge, the Apache OpenOffice project has never made 
an auditable, verifiable claim that its support for ODF 1.2 is “full,” although 
there are implementation-defined/dependent and even unspecified features in the 
ODF 1.2 specification that could be identified in some sort of Apache 
OpenOffice profile of its ODF 1.2 support.  I do not believe such a profile is 
available at this time.
 
Those are my concerns.  We will probably be discussing them for a few days here.
 
I personally favor the technical activities of the ODF Plugfests and also the 
informational activities of the Plugfest events.  The only issue is how 
sponsoring the “Open Document Principles” booklet reflects on the AOO Project’s 
charge to operate with good will to all software projects and focus on 
producing software, free to the public, as a public good.
 
-   Dennis
 
From: Stuart J Mackintosh [mailto:s...@opusvl.com] 
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 10:27
To: orc...@apache.org; dev@openoffice.apache.org; 'Roberto Galoppini' 

Cc: 'Graham Taylor' 
Subject: Re: ODF Plugfest: participation and leaflets
 
Dennis,
Do you have a hard deadline, and is that imminent?
Sorry that this came so late for you. As I am sure you understand, it takes 
time to muster volunteer commitment so we are somewhat against the clock. There 
is an imminent deadline, print will be finalised and sent Tuesday 08/09/2015 at 
16:00.


Also, if there is some sort of draft that we can use for context, that would be 
helpful.
Yes, the 11th ODF Plugfest booklet titled "Open Document Format principles for 
Government Technology" will follow a similar style and content to the booklet 
produced after the 10th Plugfest and published on Document Freedom Day 2015 
(downloadable from 
http://blogs.opusvl.com/_attachment/283/OFE-COIS-DFD-ODF-Open-Document-Principles-for-Government-Technology-March-2015.pdf
 

 ), but updated to reflect the Dutch government involvement in the 11th 
plugfest and an improved "Application Choices" table. 

An A3 poster copy of the ODF infograpic (downloadable from 
http://blogs.opusvl.com/_attachment/281/OFE-COIS-ODF-infographic-release-02150325-by-sa.png
 

 ) will also be printed and enclosed within the 11th Plugfest booklet, both 
printed in English and Dutch.

The document and many translations make up the OFE ODF toolkit which can be 
found here: http://www.openforumeurope.org/library/odf-toolkit-2/

I hope this helps inform you of our project.

Best regards,

Stuart.

PS Louis, thanks for the note.



 
 
 -- Dennis E. Hamilton
orc...@apache.org  
dennis.hamil...@acm.org  +1-206-779-9430
https://keybase.io/orcmid  PGP F96E 89FF D456 628A
X.509 certs used and requested for signed e-mail
 
 
 
-Original Message-
From: Basil Cousins [mailto:ba...@openforumeurope.org] 
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 08:12
To: Roberto Galoppini   

Cc: dev   ; Stuart 
Mackintosh   ; Graham Taylor  
 
Subject: Re: ODF Plugfest: participation and leaflets
 
Roberto,
 
The designers are pressing us hard.  I will put in Apache OO 

Re: ODF Plugfest: participation and leaflets

[Stuart J Mackintosh]

Dennis,

Do you have a hard deadline, and is that imminent?
Sorry that this came so late for you. As I am sure you understand, it 
takes time to muster volunteer commitment so we are somewhat against the 
clock. There is an imminent deadline, print will be finalised and sent 
Tuesday 08/09/2015 at 16:00.

Also, if there is some sort of draft that we can use for context, that would be 
helpful.
Yes, the 11th ODF Plugfest booklet titled "Open Document Format 
principles for Government Technology" will follow a similar style and 
content to the booklet produced after the 10th Plugfest and published on 
Document Freedom Day 2015 (downloadable from 
http://blogs.opusvl.com/_attachment/283/OFE-COIS-DFD-ODF-Open-Document-Principles-for-Government-Technology-March-2015.pdf), 
but updated to reflect the Dutch government involvement in the 11th 
plugfest and an improved "Application Choices" table.


An A3 poster copy of the ODF infograpic (downloadable from 
http://blogs.opusvl.com/_attachment/281/OFE-COIS-ODF-infographic-release-02150325-by-sa.png) 
will also be printed and enclosed within the 11th Plugfest booklet, both 
printed in English and Dutch.


The document and many translations make up the OFE ODF toolkit which can 
be found here: http://www.openforumeurope.org/library/odf-toolkit-2/


I hope this helps inform you of our project.

Best regards,

Stuart.

PS Louis, thanks for the note.



  -- Dennis E. Hamilton
 orc...@apache.org
 dennis.hamil...@acm.org+1-206-779-9430
 https://keybase.io/orcmid  PGP F96E 89FF D456 628A
 X.509 certs used and requested for signed e-mail



-Original Message-
From: Basil Cousins [mailto:ba...@openforumeurope.org]
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 08:12
To: Roberto Galoppini 
Cc: dev ; Stuart Mackintosh ; Graham 
Taylor 
Subject: Re: ODF Plugfest: participation and leaflets

Roberto,

The designers are pressing us hard.  I will put in Apache OO Logo
  provisionally. OK?

Basil

On 4 September 2015 at 15:37, Roberto Galoppini :


Roberto,

We need to close very soon.  When can you let me know about English
version?

Basil

On 4 September 2015 at 15:04, Roberto Galoppini <
roberto.galopp...@gmail.com> wrote:


Hi Basil,

  Nice to catch up again. I want to clarify that here I'm expressing only
my opinion, we do need the PMC to establish if we want - as a community -
to sponsor the English version.

Thanks,

2015-09-04 14:31 GMT+02:00 Basil Cousins :


Hi Roberto,

Great to be in touch.  I will ask Graham Taylor to raise an invoice for
£100+VAT to cover the English Version.
Can you let us have the address to be put on the invoice?

Shal we use the same logo as in the London version for Apache Open
Office or is there a more recent one?

Basil

[ ... ]




--

Stuart J Mackintosh

Director / Owner

OpusVL Logo

Business management software - Joined-up, flexible & open

• Open Source Specialists

Drury House

Drury Lane

Rugby

CV21 3DE

T: 01788 298 450

DDI: 01788 298 457

E: s...@opusvl.com 

W: http://opusvl.com

RE: [DISCUSSION] ODF Plugfest, September 2015

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

It is not clear to me what is being discussed here.  Can we separate out the 
parts, please?

 1. There is discussion of sending someone to participate in the ODF Plugfest 
to be held on 2015-09/15-16, 11 days from now.  That includes a request for 
travel funding.

 2. It is not clear to me exactly what that participation would be.  Is it only 
to participate in status and not testing?  If it is status, it appears that any 
status presentation is likely part of an agenda item to be led by Gijs 
Hillenius of OSOR.  See 
.
  The topic is "ODF in the market place."  That is an interesting topic if it 
remains the focus.  I'm not certain what we know about in that respect.  I 
definitely think it would be useful to have concrete information about that 
specific topic with respect to Apache OpenOffice.  If we figured it out, we 
could offer a slide or two without having to be there.  Would that suffice?

 3. I don't understand what English flyer from the OpenDocs Society is being 
spoken of.  I don't recall the ASF and certainly not the AOO Project being 
participants/sponsors of the OpenDocs Society.  Am I mistaken?  Is a draft 
available?

 4. Also on this thread, there is some question about payment.  If this is with 
regard to sponsoring this event, or being a sponsor in the production of a 
flyer, the timing is very short here and it seems to me that the window may 
have closed.

Also, please note that today is the early-start beginning of a major 3-day 
Holiday weekend in the United States.  We must move deliberately but 
inclusively.

Please clarify,

 - Dennis

-Original Message-
From: Louis Suárez-Potts [mailto:lui...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 07:27
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: [DISCUSSION] ODF Plugfest, September 2015

Hi

[ ... ]



Status, then, is:

* We need to update the English flyer that OpenDocs Society has created. 
Roberto (or DH) seem to think this is a PMC-level decision. Be that as it may, 
I think it’s in our interest as ODF implementers to do it. 

* We are agreed that it would be good to have an AOO representative at the 
upcoming ODF Plugfest. "Upcoming" is an understatement; it’s nearly imminent, 
15& 16 September of this year. 

* Roberto cannot go. Andrea cannot go. Dennis (whose has invested a lot of time 
into ODF matters) cannot go. I may be able to go but would need to have my 
travel taken care of by our bursary. As I live in Toronto, it’s bound to be 
more expensive than someone coming from Europe. 

- Rob would also be a choice, as he used to lead, and may still, the Oasis TC, 
where ODF matters are decided (or not…). Rob? Rob would also encounter the same 
Atlantic as I, and as he is with a large company, there may be issues with him 
accepting AOO funds. (There were such issues when I was with large 
corporations.)

Why is this event important? The UK government back in 2014 announced its ODF 
desires for a large swath of public documents. Other governmental entities in 
other parts of continental Europe, have been hedging towards ODF or at least 
away from 20th-century style desktop/intranet installations and toward what 
could be a future (or just a lousy investment). This ODF plugfest has several 
of the governmental practitioners presenting or attending. 

Our concern is that they look to AOO and see…. nada. An absence the would 
confirm what the tech journos love writing about us, that we’re dead, dying, 
and worse, stifle the living communities. 


I don’t think those representations are justified at all, and I would hate for 
them to be given the semblance of truth by our absence 

But this is not the only Plugfest that will happen nor is it the first that has 
taken place since the UK gov’t’s announcement. The world will not come to an 
end because we do not show. But it would be better if we did.

Finally, if we do need to take a PMC vote on updating the English flyer, then 
let’s get that going. Personally, I’d just think that if someone wants to 
tackle it, please, go ahead and drag in whomever else you want and is willing 
to help out. Why do we need to add yet more bureaucracy to this?

Because to print out a lot of the flyers and make them look glossy and cool, 
that takes money, which we can spend, but only after the PMC has voted on doing 
so. Hence the PMC vote.

-louis
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Re: [DISCUSSION] ODF Plugfest, September 2015

[Louis Suárez-Potts]

Comments inline; Roberto, feel free… 


> On 04 Sep 15, at 13:10, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:
> 
> It is not clear to me what is being discussed here.  Can we separate out the 
> parts, please?
> 
> 1. There is discussion of sending someone to participate in the ODF Plugfest 
> to be held on 2015-09/15-16, 11 days from now.  That includes a request for 
> travel funding.

Yes. Honestly, tho this could be an important event, the rush and cost are such 
that unless someone is closer to the event—i.e., not on the wrong side of the 
Atlantic—the cost would seem prohibitive, especially if my presence would only 
be to relay status.

> 
> 2. It is not clear to me exactly what that participation would be.

Quite.

>  Is it only to participate in status and not testing?

If I were to go, that would in fact be the case: status not testing. However, 
there is also the point that I’ve been trying to make (and I think Roberto, 
too) about the optics—the appearance—of our presence or nonpresence.

>  If it is status, it appears that any status presentation is likely part of 
> an agenda item to be led by Gijs Hillenius of OSOR.  

Yes.

> See 
> .
>   The topic is "ODF in the market place."  That is an interesting topic if it 
> remains the focus.  I'm not certain what we know about in that respect.  I 
> definitely think it would be useful to have concrete information about that 
> specific topic with respect to Apache OpenOffice.  If we figured it out, we 
> could offer a slide or two without having to be there.  Would that suffice?

Yes, but given the malleability of things, I’d guess that we could shape the 
topic to a degree. By concrete information, I am guessing you have in mind data 
we can cite indicating uptake or usage of AOO and thus of our implementation of 
ODF. To this point, Rob did point out that we could re-do our survey, which 
looked at preferred open source office suites. One could also conceivably add 
more questions illuminating AOO’s market currency. (Eg, percentage in any 
sector or other useful data points that suggest a picture of how and where AOO 
is being used. We did this a long while ago, at the Oasis ODF Adoption TC.)
> 
> 3. I don't understand what English flyer from the OpenDocs Society is being 
> spoken of.  I don't recall the ASF and certainly not the AOO Project being 
> participants/sponsors of the OpenDocs Society.  Am I mistaken?  Is a draft 
> available?

You are not mistaken as far as I know regarding sponsorship. I think a draft is 
available and was sent by Basil, but….
I think the money here, which we have some discretionary control over, 
independent of ASF—perhaps Andrea can explain it better—would go for printing. 
But: this, too is coming thick and fast. I mean the call for action on this 
matter.

> 
> 4. Also on this thread, there is some question about payment.  If this is 
> with regard to sponsoring this event, or being a sponsor in the production of 
> a flyer, the timing is very short here and it seems to me that the window may 
> have closed.
> 
> Also, please note that today is the early-start beginning of a major 3-day 
> Holiday weekend in the United States.  We must move deliberately but 
> inclusively.
> 
> Please clarify,

Doubtless Roberto or Andrea can shed more light.  I had been aware of the event 
but had not planned on going before, as it interacted (and still does) with a 
prior personal engagement. But the event does strike me as potential important. 
But not so important as to cause the sky to fall, should we not make it. 

The status report Gijs would read out is good. But my point that being there 
and meeting the government developers and representatives, as well as the 
others involved, would send a strong signal to an admittedly small but probably 
significant group.

But Roberto, who went last time, and Rob, who’s gone many times, can probably 
evaluate the scenario better than I. And we can also meet the principals 
elsewhere. Like at ACEU. Indeed, inviting them to the event and then holding 
much more informed and less rushed meetings there, would be good; but it would 
depend on them being there.

best
louis 



> 
> - Dennis
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Louis Suárez-Potts [mailto:lui...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 07:27
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSSION] ODF Plugfest, September 2015
> 
> Hi
> 
> [ ... ]
> 
> 
> 
> Status, then, is:
> 
> * We need to update the English flyer that OpenDocs Society has created. 
> Roberto (or DH) seem to think this is a PMC-level decision. Be that as it 
> may, I think it’s in our interest as ODF implementers to do it. 
> 
> * We are agreed that it would be good to have an AOO representative at the 
> upcoming ODF Plugfest. "Upcoming" is an understatement; it’s nearly imminent, 
> 15& 16 September of this year. 
> 
> * Roberto cannot go. Andrea cannot go. 

RE: ODF Plugfest: participation and leaflets

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

My apologies, Basil (and hello again!),

This came up very late and we may not be able to sort things out in time for 
you.  

Do you have a hard deadline, and is that imminent?

Also, if there is some sort of draft that we can use for context, that would be 
helpful.

(Attachments don't survive on this list though.)

If you prefer that work-in-progress not be posted to this public list, you are 
welcome to respond to private@ openoffice.apache.org where the Project 
Management Committee can look it over.  We will probably need to have a link to 
some repository location.


 -- Dennis E. Hamilton
orc...@apache.org
dennis.hamil...@acm.org+1-206-779-9430
https://keybase.io/orcmid  PGP F96E 89FF D456 628A
X.509 certs used and requested for signed e-mail



-Original Message-
From: Basil Cousins [mailto:ba...@openforumeurope.org] 
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 08:12
To: Roberto Galoppini 
Cc: dev ; Stuart Mackintosh ; 
Graham Taylor 
Subject: Re: ODF Plugfest: participation and leaflets

Roberto,

The designers are pressing us hard.  I will put in Apache OO Logo
 provisionally. OK?

Basil

On 4 September 2015 at 15:37, Roberto Galoppini  wrote:

> Basil,
>
> I'm sure you'll get an answer, but unfortunately I can't commit to provide
> you with an answer in a short time frame. Our Chair will sort out a way to
> manage this situation, though.
>
> Roberto
>
> 2015-09-04 16:25 GMT+02:00 Basil Cousins :
>
>> Roberto,
>>
>> We need to close very soon.  When can you let me know about English
>> version?
>>
>> Basil
>>
>> On 4 September 2015 at 15:04, Roberto Galoppini <
>> roberto.galopp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Basil,
>>>
>>>  Nice to catch up again. I want to clarify that here I'm expressing only
>>> my opinion, we do need the PMC to establish if we want - as a community -
>>> to sponsor the English version.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> 2015-09-04 14:31 GMT+02:00 Basil Cousins :
>>>
 Hi Roberto,

 Great to be in touch.  I will ask Graham Taylor to raise an invoice for
 £100+VAT to cover the English Version.
 Can you let us have the address to be put on the invoice?

 Shal we use the same logo as in the London version for Apache Open
 Office or is there a more recent one?

 Basil
[ ... ]


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Re: ODF Plugfest: participation and leaflets

[Louis Suárez-Potts]

Note, to Basil, Stuart, Graham— (Wave of hello!—)

Just an alert that we are cc’ing the infinitely public dev@ list. It is not a 
private list. What you write, including your signature, etc. will be public and 
stay that way.

You probably know this already. And I’m being late about my warning. So it goes.

best
louis


> On 04 Sep 15, at 13:10, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:
> 
> My apologies, Basil (and hello again!),
> 
> This came up very late and we may not be able to sort things out in time for 
> you.  
> 
> Do you have a hard deadline, and is that imminent?
> 
> Also, if there is some sort of draft that we can use for context, that would 
> be helpful.
> 
> (Attachments don't survive on this list though.)
> 
> If you prefer that work-in-progress not be posted to this public list, you 
> are welcome to respond to private@ openoffice.apache.org where the Project 
> Management Committee can look it over.  We will probably need to have a link 
> to some repository location.
> 
> 
> -- Dennis E. Hamilton
>orc...@apache.org
>dennis.hamil...@acm.org+1-206-779-9430
>https://keybase.io/orcmid  PGP F96E 89FF D456 628A
>X.509 certs used and requested for signed e-mail
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Basil Cousins [mailto:ba...@openforumeurope.org] 
> Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 08:12
> To: Roberto Galoppini 
> Cc: dev ; Stuart Mackintosh ; 
> Graham Taylor 
> Subject: Re: ODF Plugfest: participation and leaflets
> 
> Roberto,
> 
> The designers are pressing us hard.  I will put in Apache OO Logo
> provisionally. OK?
> 
> Basil
> 
> On 4 September 2015 at 15:37, Roberto Galoppini > wrote:
> 
>> Basil,
>> 
>> I'm sure you'll get an answer, but unfortunately I can't commit to provide
>> you with an answer in a short time frame. Our Chair will sort out a way to
>> manage this situation, though.
>> 
>> Roberto
>> 
>> 2015-09-04 16:25 GMT+02:00 Basil Cousins :
>> 
>>> Roberto,
>>> 
>>> We need to close very soon.  When can you let me know about English
>>> version?
>>> 
>>> Basil
>>> 
>>> On 4 September 2015 at 15:04, Roberto Galoppini <
>>> roberto.galopp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
 Hi Basil,
 
 Nice to catch up again. I want to clarify that here I'm expressing only
 my opinion, we do need the PMC to establish if we want - as a community -
 to sponsor the English version.
 
 Thanks,
 
 2015-09-04 14:31 GMT+02:00 Basil Cousins :
 
> Hi Roberto,
> 
> Great to be in touch.  I will ask Graham Taylor to raise an invoice for
> £100+VAT to cover the English Version.
> Can you let us have the address to be put on the invoice?
> 
> Shal we use the same logo as in the London version for Apache Open
> Office or is there a more recent one?
> 
> Basil
> [ ... ]
> 
> 
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> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org


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Re: [DISCUSSION] ODF Plugfest, September 2015

[Roberto Galoppini]

2015-09-04 19:39 GMT+02:00 Louis Suárez-Potts :

> Comments inline; Roberto, feel free…
>
>
> > On 04 Sep 15, at 13:10, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:
> >
> > It is not clear to me what is being discussed here.  Can we separate out
> the parts, please?
> >
> > 1. There is discussion of sending someone to participate in the ODF
> Plugfest to be held on 2015-09/15-16, 11 days from now.  That includes a
> request for travel funding.
>
> Yes. Honestly, tho this could be an important event, the rush and cost are
> such that unless someone is closer to the event—i.e., not on the wrong side
> of the Atlantic—the cost would seem prohibitive, especially if my presence
> would only be to relay status.
>
> >
> > 2. It is not clear to me exactly what that participation would be.
>
> Quite.
>
> >  Is it only to participate in status and not testing?
>
> If I were to go, that would in fact be the case: status not testing.
> However, there is also the point that I’ve been trying to make (and I think
> Roberto, too) about the optics—the appearance—of our presence or
> nonpresence.
>
> >  If it is status, it appears that any status presentation is likely part
> of an agenda item to be led by Gijs Hillenius of OSOR.
>
> Yes.
>
> > See <
> http://plugtest.opendocsociety.org/doku.php?id=plugfests:201509_thehague:info>.
> The topic is "ODF in the market place."  That is an interesting topic if it
> remains the focus.  I'm not certain what we know about in that respect.  I
> definitely think it would be useful to have concrete information about that
> specific topic with respect to Apache OpenOffice.  If we figured it out, we
> could offer a slide or two without having to be there.  Would that suffice?
>
> Yes, but given the malleability of things, I’d guess that we could shape
> the topic to a degree. By concrete information, I am guessing you have in
> mind data we can cite indicating uptake or usage of AOO and thus of our
> implementation of ODF. To this point, Rob did point out that we could re-do
> our survey, which looked at preferred open source office suites. One could
> also conceivably add more questions illuminating AOO’s market currency.
> (Eg, percentage in any sector or other useful data points that suggest a
> picture of how and where AOO is being used. We did this a long while ago,
> at the Oasis ODF Adoption TC.)
> >
> > 3. I don't understand what English flyer from the OpenDocs Society is
> being spoken of.  I don't recall the ASF and certainly not the AOO Project
> being participants/sponsors of the OpenDocs Society.  Am I mistaken?  Is a
> draft available?
>
> You are not mistaken as far as I know regarding sponsorship. I think a
> draft is available and was sent by Basil, but….
> I think the money here, which we have some discretionary control over,
> independent of ASF—perhaps Andrea can explain it better—would go for
> printing. But: this, too is coming thick and fast. I mean the call for
> action on this matter.
>
> >
> > 4. Also on this thread, there is some question about payment.  If this
> is with regard to sponsoring this event, or being a sponsor in the
> production of a flyer, the timing is very short here and it seems to me
> that the window may have closed.
> >
> > Also, please note that today is the early-start beginning of a major
> 3-day Holiday weekend in the United States.  We must move deliberately but
> inclusively.
> >
> > Please clarify,
>
> Doubtless Roberto or Andrea can shed more light.  I had been aware of the
> event but had not planned on going before, as it interacted (and still
> does) with a prior personal engagement. But the event does strike me as
> potential important. But not so important as to cause the sky to fall,
> should we not make it.
>
> The status report Gijs would read out is good. But my point that being
> there and meeting the government developers and representatives, as well as
> the others involved, would send a strong signal to an admittedly small but
> probably significant group.
>
> But Roberto, who went last time, and Rob, who’s gone many times, can
> probably evaluate the scenario better than I. And we can also meet the
> principals elsewhere. Like at ACEU. Indeed, inviting them to the event and
> then holding much more informed and less rushed meetings there, would be
> good; but it would depend on them being there.
>

Actually I didn't go since the Orvieto Plugfest, that is almost 10 years
ago. Anyway, I believe we missed the opportunity to come up with something
valuable and interesting for the agenda, unless someone has a different
idea. If I would have gone I would have joined the technical sessions, but
again our understanding of how AOO is or is not compliant with the finally
approved ODF 1.2 is little at best.

To all this we should add the concerns and questions rightfully raised by
Dennis, here and on the other thread.

I would favor us to get a hold of where are we in respect of such a
standard, and plan to 

Re: ODF Plugfest: participation and leaflets

[Louis Suárez-Potts]

Hi all,
(dropped the cc’d outside of AOO).

> On 04 Sep 15, at 15:32, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:
> 
> Stuart,
>  
> Thank you for your rapid response.
>  
> I assume 2015-09-08T16:00 is UTC+0100 (BST)?
>  
> I think there are two matters.
>  
> First, it would be very useful to know what the modifications to the 
> “Application Choices” table are, and also anything new with respect to 
> differences concerning the International Standards mentioned and also 
> application differences.
>  
> Secondly, I am concerned that there are various advocacy and high-level 
> claims that may be inappropriate for the ASF and, consequently, Apache 
> OpenOffice, to appear associated with.  That’s a provisional observation.  
> Further discussion will occur here, I’m certain. 

>  
> I personally favor the technical activities of the ODF Plugfests and also the 
> informational activities of the Plugfest events.  The only issue is how 
> sponsoring the “Open Document Principles” booklet reflects on the AOO 
> Project’s charge to operate with good will to all software projects and focus 
> on producing software, free to the public, as a public good.

Dennis, I can’t claim to be enamoured of your legalistic phrasing and parsing 
of whether any endorsement of the leaflet would be in keeping with the ASF’s 
articulated (and tax sensitive) mission. I appreciate your point, however. It 
is not a trivial observation and does merit discussion, action, by the 
community. But the language is somewhat off-putting, or at least it was with 
me. The blunter language of your last paragraph is much more to the point and 
comprehensible. It’s something we in this community can work with. 

Note, our support of the plugfests has a long history, antedating AOO. 
"Support" does not mean monetary; it means, here, a support of the cause of the 
ODF. Specific instances would be Roberto participating as the AOO rep. last ODF 
Plugfest. (My prior participations were under my own recognisance or as a 
member of Oasis; same for Rob, I think.)

If we, the community want to discuss supporting the leaflet, I’d suggest we get 
on it. I’d like to set a deadline so that we can let Stuart know sooner than 
later.

I’d also like to learn if we are going to send someone to the event. As time 
drips into the sewage of the past, the answer edges toward "no." :-)

louis


>  
> -   Dennis
>  
> From: Stuart J Mackintosh [mailto:s...@opusvl.com] 
> Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 10:27
> To: orc...@apache.org; dev@openoffice.apache.org; 'Roberto Galoppini' 
> 
> Cc: 'Graham Taylor' 
> Subject: Re: ODF Plugfest: participation and leaflets
>  
> Dennis,
>> Do you have a hard deadline, and is that imminent?
> Sorry that this came so late for you. As I am sure you understand, it takes 
> time to muster volunteer commitment so we are somewhat against the clock. 
> There is an imminent deadline, print will be finalised and sent Tuesday 
> 08/09/2015 at 16:00.
> 
>> Also, if there is some sort of draft that we can use for context, that would 
>> be helpful.
> Yes, the 11th ODF Plugfest booklet titled "Open Document Format principles 
> for Government Technology" will follow a similar style and content to the 
> booklet produced after the 10th Plugfest and published on Document Freedom 
> Day 2015 (downloadable from 
> http://blogs.opusvl.com/_attachment/283/OFE-COIS-DFD-ODF-Open-Document-Principles-for-Government-Technology-March-2015.pdf),
>  but updated to reflect the Dutch government involvement in the 11th plugfest 
> and an improved "Application Choices" table. 
> 
> An A3 poster copy of the ODF infograpic (downloadable from 
> http://blogs.opusvl.com/_attachment/281/OFE-COIS-ODF-infographic-release-02150325-by-sa.png)
>  will also be printed and enclosed within the 11th Plugfest booklet, both 
> printed in English and Dutch.
> 
> The document and many translations make up the OFE ODF toolkit which can be 
> found here: http://www.openforumeurope.org/library/odf-toolkit-2/
> 
> I hope this helps inform you of our project.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Stuart.
> 
> PS Louis, thanks for the note.
> 
> 
>>  
>>  
>>  -- Dennis E. Hamilton
>> orc...@apache.org
>> dennis.hamil...@acm.org+1-206-779-9430
>> https://keybase.io/orcmid  PGP F96E 89FF D456 628A
>> X.509 certs used and requested for signed e-mail
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Basil Cousins [mailto:ba...@openforumeurope.org] 
>> Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 08:12
>> To: Roberto Galoppini 
>> Cc: dev ; Stuart Mackintosh ; 
>> Graham Taylor 
>> Subject: Re: ODF Plugfest: participation and leaflets
>>  
>> Roberto,
>>  
>> The designers are pressing us hard.  I will put in Apache OO Logo
>>  provisionally. OK?
>>  
>> Basil
>>  
>> On 4 September 2015 at 15:37, Roberto Galoppini 

RE: ODF Plugfest: participation and leaflets

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

Great!! My mistake.  Go for it: [PROPOSE], [DISCUSS], whatever.  I think the 
idea is to avoid a [VOTE] wherever possible.  Perfect.

 - Dennis

-Original Message-
From: Louis Suárez-Potts [mailto:lui...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 19:22
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; Dennis E. Hamilton 
Subject: Re: ODF Plugfest: participation and leaflets

Hi all,

> On 04 Sep 15, at 22:13, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:
> 
> I think the idea is to work toward consensus.  The proposal of a [VOTE] on a 
> matter not yet made specific and discussed is not particularly advisable.

Oh dear. I guess I was not clear and inadvertently caused more confusion than 
usual. I wrote, "Roberto, do you want to imitate the discussion for a vote…." 
That is to say, not have a vote, but yet to have discussion that would be 
productive and result in a vote. I actually did not mean to suggest we should 
leap to a vote. As my language I thought had conveyed, I want to hit the "Let’s 
Think About This" button and then press the "Let's Act As A Community."


> 
> How about a [PROPOSE] or a [DISCUSS] thread.  If you look for a lazy 
> consensus, please allow for the fact that this is a 3-day Holiday weekend in 
> the United States.

Sure. A discussion that could lead to vote, in the end. I think the most 
important point I was actually trying to convey to Roberto is that there is no 
project lead or chair and if he deems the issue here important, then he is 
entitled to initiate the process the would lead in the end to action. 

Louis
> 
> - Dennis
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Louis Suárez-Potts [mailto:lui...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 18:20
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: ODF Plugfest: participation and leaflets
> 
> Roberto, do you want to initiate the discussion for a vote by the community 
> including the binding PMC members? I would prefer to keep it all public and 
> just have the PMC members indicate at vote their status.
> 
> But go ahead and let’s get the issue a) clarified and b) framed in such a way 
> that we can act on it.
> 
> louis
> 
> 
>> On 04 Sep 15, at 10:04, Roberto Galoppini  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Basil,
>> 
>> Nice to catch up again. I want to clarify that here I'm expressing only my
>> opinion, we do need the PMC to establish if we want - as a community - to
>> sponsor the English version.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> 2015-09-04 14:31 GMT+02:00 Basil Cousins :
>> 
>>> Hi Roberto,
>>> 
>>> Great to be in touch.  I will ask Graham Taylor to raise an invoice for
>>> £100+VAT to cover the English Version.
>>> Can you let us have the address to be put on the invoice?
>>> 
>>> Shal we use the same logo as in the London version for Apache Open Office
>>> or is there a more recent one?
>>> 
>>> Basil
>>> 
>>> Basil
>>> 
>>> On 4 September 2015 at 12:38, Roberto Galoppini <
>>> roberto.galopp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
 
 
 2015-09-04 5:06 GMT+02:00 Louis Suárez-Potts :
 
> Hi all,
> Comments inline.
> 
> 
>> On 03 Sep 15, at 16:24, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
>> 
>> As we discussed some weeks ago, the next ODF Plugfest will be held in
> The Hague, Netherlands, mid-September:
>> http://plugfest.opendocumentformat.org/2015-thehague/programme/
>> 
>> There are three issues that require attention in a very short time.
> Deadline is 8 September when not otherwise specified.
>> 
>> 1) Is anyone going in the end? We discussed this at length. I've never
> considered going since it overlaps with another event I'm scheduled to
> attend. Dennis and Roberto were both mentioned (and Dennis later clarified
> he is busy in the US). Of course if someone goes we can still discuss to
> allocate a budget from our events fund.
> 
 
 When I made plans to go I didn't know about much about my calendar of
 business meetings. As of now I can't commit to that trip, unfortunately.
 
 
 
> 
> The event somewhat overlaps with a personal engagement but that may be
> negotiable. It depends on how much subsidy we have to support this very
> late trip—of mine, I mean. I’d be coming from Toronto, Canada. A quick
> price check via Orbitz reveals that for a flight via the dodgy Air Transat
> the cost (R/T) would be about 740 USD. Include an Airbnb room—don’t know
> how much that would be but probably not that much, though still, for three
> days, at leasts 150 USD, and probably more. (I’m guessing the Hague is
> costly.) Besides Air Transat, the average price for airfare to AMS is 
> about
> 1300 USD; to the Hague (Rotterdam) 500 USD more or so. I’m guessing a 
> train
> trip from AMS is cheaper.
> 
> I’ve been to several of these events, including, I think, the initiating
> one. I know ODF 

[PROPOSAL][EXT] Submit UNO Java jar files to Maven Repository

[Carl Marcum]

Hi all,

I propose submitting the latest UNO Java jar files to Maven Repository 
for inclusion.


The files are ridl.jar, juh.jar, unoil.jar, and jurt.jar.

This will allow projects using maven, gradle, etc. build systems to use 
the AOO UNO java jars.


Afterward I will update the wiki with the new information.

The last version available in the Maven repository is 3.2.1.

If there are no objections to the above proposal within 72-hours then I 
will invoke Lazy Consensus and proceed to implement the above proposal.


Thanks,
Carl

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Re: [DISCUSSION] ODF Plugfest, September 2015

[Louis Suárez-Potts]

> On 04 Sep 15, at 16:05, Roberto Galoppini  wrote:
> 
> 2015-09-04 19:39 GMT+02:00 Louis Suárez-Potts :
> 
>> Comments inline; Roberto, feel free…
>> 
>> 
> 
> Actually I didn't go since the Orvieto Plugfest, that is almost 10 years
> ago. Anyway, I believe we missed the opportunity to come up with something
> valuable and interesting for the agenda, unless someone has a different
> idea. If I would have gone I would have joined the technical sessions, but
> again our understanding of how AOO is or is not compliant with the finally
> approved ODF 1.2 is little at best.
> 

Interesting; I had the impression you’d gone to the most recent. Then, it would 
seem the case Rob and I have gone to more, as I’ve attended most of them, 
though not since 2012 Brussels. 

> To all this we should add the concerns and questions rightfully raised by
> Dennis, here and on the other thread.

Y.
> 
> I would favor us to get a hold of where are we in respect of such a
> standard, and plan to join the next Plugfest.

I would go further and suggest we shape the content of our future. Not spectate.



> 
> My two cents.

I raise you a loony. (Loony: the Canadian dollar but probably less than that, 
given the plunging value of "money"; also a bird and useful adjective 
indicating craziness.)
> 
> Roberto
> 
> 
>> 
>> best
>> louis
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> - Dennis
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Louis Suárez-Potts [mailto:lui...@gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 07:27
>>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
>>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSSION] ODF Plugfest, September 2015
>>> 
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> [ ... ]
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Status, then, is:
>>> 
>>> * We need to update the English flyer that OpenDocs Society has created.
>> Roberto (or DH) seem to think this is a PMC-level decision. Be that as it
>> may, I think it’s in our interest as ODF implementers to do it.
>>> 
>>> * We are agreed that it would be good to have an AOO representative at
>> the upcoming ODF Plugfest. "Upcoming" is an understatement; it’s nearly
>> imminent, 15& 16 September of this year.
>>> 
>>> * Roberto cannot go. Andrea cannot go. Dennis (whose has invested a lot
>> of time into ODF matters) cannot go. I may be able to go but would need to
>> have my travel taken care of by our bursary. As I live in Toronto, it’s
>> bound to be more expensive than someone coming from Europe.
>>> 
>>> - Rob would also be a choice, as he used to lead, and may still, the
>> Oasis TC, where ODF matters are decided (or not…). Rob? Rob would also
>> encounter the same Atlantic as I, and as he is with a large company, there
>> may be issues with him accepting AOO funds. (There were such issues when I
>> was with large corporations.)
>>> 
>>> Why is this event important? The UK government back in 2014 announced
>> its ODF desires for a large swath of public documents. Other governmental
>> entities in other parts of continental Europe, have been hedging towards
>> ODF or at least away from 20th-century style desktop/intranet installations
>> and toward what could be a future (or just a lousy investment). This ODF
>> plugfest has several of the governmental practitioners presenting or
>> attending.
>>> 
>>> Our concern is that they look to AOO and see…. nada. An absence the
>> would confirm what the tech journos love writing about us, that we’re dead,
>> dying, and worse, stifle the living communities.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I don’t think those representations are justified at all, and I would
>> hate for them to be given the semblance of truth by our absence
>>> 
>>> But this is not the only Plugfest that will happen nor is it the first
>> that has taken place since the UK gov’t’s announcement. The world will not
>> come to an end because we do not show. But it would be better if we did.
>>> 
>>> Finally, if we do need to take a PMC vote on updating the English flyer,
>> then let’s get that going. Personally, I’d just think that if someone wants
>> to tackle it, please, go ahead and drag in whomever else you want and is
>> willing to help out. Why do we need to add yet more bureaucracy to this?
>>> 
>>> Because to print out a lot of the flyers and make them look glossy and
>> cool, that takes money, which we can spend, but only after the PMC has
>> voted on doing so. Hence the PMC vote.
>>> 
>>> -louis
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>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
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RE: ODF Plugfest: participation and leaflets

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

Hi Basil,
 
It appears this message was caught in whatever routing issue that interfered 
with traffic between the US and UK earlier today.  Here, we have already seen 
Roberto’s response, a second response from you, and discussion on dev@ oo.a.o.  
I think we’ll all catch our breath now and wait for things to quiet down.
 
-   Dennis
 
From: Basil Cousins [mailto:ba...@openforumeurope.org] 
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 05:32
To: Roberto Galoppini 
Cc: dev ; Stuart Mackintosh ; 
Graham Taylor 
Subject: Re: ODF Plugfest: participation and leaflets
 
Hi Roberto,
 
Great to be in touch.  I will ask Graham Taylor to raise an invoice for 
£100+VAT to cover the English Version.
Can you let us have the address to be put on the invoice?  
 
Shal we use the same logo as in the London version for Apache Open Office or is 
there a more recent one?
 
Basil
 
Basil
 
On 4 September 2015 at 12:38, Roberto Galoppini  > wrote:
 
 
2015-09-04 5:06 GMT+02:00 Louis Suárez-Potts  >:
Hi all,
Comments inline.


> On 03 Sep 15, at 16:24, Andrea Pescetti   > wrote:
>
> As we discussed some weeks ago, the next ODF Plugfest will be held in The 
> Hague, Netherlands, mid-September:
> http://plugfest.opendocumentformat.org/2015-thehague/programme/
>
> There are three issues that require attention in a very short time. Deadline 
> is 8 September when not otherwise specified.
>
> 1) Is anyone going in the end? We discussed this at length. I've never 
> considered going since it overlaps with another event I'm scheduled to 
> attend. Dennis and Roberto were both mentioned (and Dennis later clarified he 
> is busy in the US). Of course if someone goes we can still discuss to 
> allocate a budget from our events fund.
 
When I made plans to go I didn't know about much about my calendar of business 
meetings. As of now I can't commit to that trip, unfortunately. 

 

The event somewhat overlaps with a personal engagement but that may be 
negotiable. It depends on how much subsidy we have to support this very late 
trip—of mine, I mean. I’d be coming from Toronto, Canada. A quick price check 
via Orbitz reveals that for a flight via the dodgy Air Transat the cost (R/T) 
would be about 740 USD. Include an Airbnb room—don’t know how much that would 
be but probably not that much, though still, for three days, at leasts 150 USD, 
and probably more. (I’m guessing the Hague is costly.) Besides Air Transat, the 
average price for airfare to AMS is about 1300 USD; to the Hague (Rotterdam) 
500 USD more or so. I’m guessing a train trip from AMS is cheaper.

I’ve been to several of these events, including, I think, the initiating one. I 
know ODF fairly well, was on the Oasis TCs, etc. (I quit them a couple of years 
ago.) The drawback for me going is I’m not developing ODF or for ODF and though 
I can certainly represent AOO’s continued interest in furthering usage of ODF, 
not to mention other Apache projects’ ODF work, to some extent I’ll be mostly 
competent at relaying speech.
 
I agree, and I think it would be important to give a speech about our concerns 
around office formats' interoperability.
I believe we can still ask Michiel or Basil to accommodate a similar ask. 
 


>
> 2) I was contacted (for no special reason; I've never attended a Plugfest) by 
> Basil Cousins of Openforum Europe, who gave me permission to forward his 
> request here, about updating a leaflet for the next ODF Plugfest. The 2014 
> version is here:
> http://openforumeurope.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/OFE-COIS-DFD-ODF-Open-Document-Principles-for-Government-Technology-March-2015.pdf
> and there is also an infographic available at 
> http://www.openforumeurope.org/library/odf-toolkit-2/
> Can you please suggest content updates to this leaflet? Basil in is CC. We 
> can discuss updates on this list and then one of us, ideally someone who 
> attends the event, can send the final comments to Basil. The part needing 
> more attention is the Applications Choices section on page 5.

I can look at it, too. But others, here, can surely weigh in. I think we have 
talent to enhance this, no?

>
> 3) For this leaflet they also ask for a contribution for printing. One can 
> support printing the English version (addressed to UK government), the Dutch 
> version (addressed to Dutch government) or both. The contribution is 100 GBP 
> (so about 135 EUR or 150 USD) for each edition. If you feel it would be 
> useful, I assume that the fund for events and merchandising could be used to 
> support this. Please state if you propose that we allocate budget and, in 
> case it's a yes, if you'd rather contribute to the English version or both 
> versions.

I think it would be money well spent.
 
Agree for the English version, 

RE: [PROPOSAL][EXT] Submit UNO Java jar files to Maven Repository

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

How are these files distributed now, Carl?

-Original Message-
From: Carl Marcum [mailto:cmar...@apache.org] 
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 17:18
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: [PROPOSAL][EXT] Submit UNO Java jar files to Maven Repository

Hi all,

I propose submitting the latest UNO Java jar files to Maven Repository 
for inclusion.

The files are ridl.jar, juh.jar, unoil.jar, and jurt.jar.

This will allow projects using maven, gradle, etc. build systems to use 
the AOO UNO java jars.

Afterward I will update the wiki with the new information.

The last version available in the Maven repository is 3.2.1.

If there are no objections to the above proposal within 72-hours then I 
will invoke Lazy Consensus and proceed to implement the above proposal.

Thanks,
Carl

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Re: [PROPOSAL][EXT] Submit UNO Java jar files to Maven Repository

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Carl,

It is a great idea to release these jars. It would be a released product with 
the necessary formality. It could be called something like Apache OpenOffice 
UNO.

A separate product with its own source and convenience maven release. This is a 
typical pattern at Apache.

Again a brilliant idea.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 4, 2015, at 5:18 PM, Carl Marcum  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I propose submitting the latest UNO Java jar files to Maven Repository for 
> inclusion.
> 
> The files are ridl.jar, juh.jar, unoil.jar, and jurt.jar.
> 
> This will allow projects using maven, gradle, etc. build systems to use the 
> AOO UNO java jars.
> 
> Afterward I will update the wiki with the new information.
> 
> The last version available in the Maven repository is 3.2.1.
> 
> If there are no objections to the above proposal within 72-hours then I will 
> invoke Lazy Consensus and proceed to implement the above proposal.
> 
> Thanks,
> Carl
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
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> 

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Re: [PROPOSAL][EXT] Submit UNO Java jar files to Maven Repository

[Carl Marcum]

On 09/04/2015 08:54 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:

How are these files distributed now, Carl?

They are included in the distribution under openoffice4/program/classes

If approved, I still need to look into whether we provide the files or 
point to the SVN repo or something else.


We may need to PGP sign the files.  I did this with the Netbeans plugin 
for neatbeans.org.




-Original Message-
From: Carl Marcum [mailto:cmar...@apache.org]
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 17:18
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: [PROPOSAL][EXT] Submit UNO Java jar files to Maven Repository

Hi all,

I propose submitting the latest UNO Java jar files to Maven Repository
for inclusion.

The files are ridl.jar, juh.jar, unoil.jar, and jurt.jar.

This will allow projects using maven, gradle, etc. build systems to use
the AOO UNO java jars.

Afterward I will update the wiki with the new information.

The last version available in the Maven repository is 3.2.1.

If there are no objections to the above proposal within 72-hours then I
will invoke Lazy Consensus and proceed to implement the above proposal.

Thanks,
Carl

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Re: [PROPOSAL][EXT] Submit UNO Java jar files to Maven Repository

[Carl Marcum]

On 09/04/2015 10:29 PM, Dave Fisher wrote:

Hi Carl,

It is a great idea to release these jars. It would be a released product with 
the necessary formality. It could be called something like Apache OpenOffice 
UNO.

A separate product with its own source and convenience maven release. This is a 
typical pattern at Apache.

Again a brilliant idea.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone


On Sep 4, 2015, at 5:18 PM, Carl Marcum  wrote:

Hi all,

I propose submitting the latest UNO Java jar files to Maven Repository for 
inclusion.

The files are ridl.jar, juh.jar, unoil.jar, and jurt.jar.

This will allow projects using maven, gradle, etc. build systems to use the AOO 
UNO java jars.

Afterward I will update the wiki with the new information.

The last version available in the Maven repository is 3.2.1.

If there are no objections to the above proposal within 72-hours then I will 
invoke Lazy Consensus and proceed to implement the above proposal.

Thanks,
Carl

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Thanks Dave,

While I can probably manage to handle the submission of the files to 
Maven,  I don't know much about how theses files are built or maintained.


Carl

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[DISCUSS] Apache OpenOffice ODF in the Marketplace

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

I had not encountered the topic of "ODF in the market place" with regard to 
status of Apache OpenOffice.  Perhaps I have not been paying attention.

I am curious how we might characterize how support for ODF matters to Apache 
OpenOffice users and various institutions that value support for ODF in their 
reliance on Apache OpenOffice and related software.

How can we determine what the influence of ODF is with respect to Apache 
OpenOffice?

It strikes me there are two parts to this question.  

 1. Who are the users of Apache OpenOffice?

 2. What are the ways ODF is (comparatively) significant to those users?  

Is this something we can quantify or characterize to some degree, based on 
information available to the project?

If we can find something indicative that can be presented in concrete terms, 
that might be an useful contribution to the ODF Plugfest in mid-September.

What could we nail down?

 - Dennis

SOME THOUGHTS

It is not very easy to ask users questions about ODF, especially since 
understanding the format or much about it, technically, does not command the 
attention of the great majority who adopt Apache OpenOffice, whether 
individuals or organizations.

WHO ARE THE USERS?

Although there are now over 150 million downloads of Apache OpenOffice, that 
does not tell us how many individual users are involved.

Perhaps the download counts just for AOO 4.1.1 would be a representable sample 
of a particularly-active segment of the user base, even though that would be 
underestimated a couple of ways.  But that, and the average weekly rate would 
be useful as "at least" figures.

The mix of platforms for those downloads is also important, reflecting the 
context in which those installed downloads are used by new users and those who 
are keeping their configurations current.


WHAT DO THEY DEPEND ON CONCERNING ODF SUPPORT?

I assume an obvious case may be some assurance that there documents will be 
preserved and can be used with different products if needed.  I think we have 
to assume that.

Another case would be being able to interchange documents with other users of 
ODF-supporting software, or even match the software that might be used in a 
workplace or governmental agency.

They may also be interested in other features of Apache OpenOffice and its 
direct support of ODF may simply be a by-product.

There is probably not much that we have access to will tell us about these 
cases?  Are there others?

HOW DO WE TELL WHAT IS IMPORTANT TO THEM ABOUT APACHE OPENOFFICE?

For that, there are some indicators.

There are bug reports, user requests for assistance, and forum posts, access to 
the wiki, etc.  For that, we have crude indicators of what users look for and 
what users have problems/complaints/requests about.

Some of these are related to support of document formats.  

Others are about general usability and other factors not directly related to 
the underlying format.

Sometimes feature issues can be tied directly to how they are supported in ODF 
by Apache OpenOffice.

We could mine some of the data we have for a profile of these categories.  It 
is not clear how indicative it is until we gather it.

Where would be a good start for a short term trial investigation?




-Original Message-
From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:orc...@apache.org] 
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 10:10
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: RE: [DISCUSSION] ODF Plugfest, September 2015

[ ... ]

 2.  ... [It] appears that any status presentation is likely part of an agenda 
item to be led by Gijs Hillenius of OSOR.  See 
.
  The topic is "ODF in the market place."  That is an interesting topic if it 
remains the focus.  I'm not certain what we know about in that respect.  I 
definitely think it would be useful to have concrete information about that 
specific topic with respect to Apache OpenOffice.  If we figured it out, we 
could offer a slide or two without having to be there.  Would that suffice?

[ ... ]


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4.1.2_release_blocker requested: [Issue 117989] Basic functions Day(), Hour(), Minute(), and Second() return wrong results for dates <1900-1-1

[bugzilla]

Kay  has asked  for 4.1.2_release_blocker:
Issue 117989: Basic functions Day(), Hour(), Minute(), and Second() return
wrong results for dates <1900-1-1
https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=117989



--- Comment #7 from Kay  ---
Verified fixed. Recommend as release blocker due to age of issue.

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Re: [DISCUSSION] ODF Plugfest, September 2015

[Andrea Pescetti]

On 04/09/2015 Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:

  3. I don't understand what English flyer from the OpenDocs Society is being 
spoken of.


There were three bullet items in my mail.

If this wasn't clear, items 2. and 3. referred to the flyer. I called it 
a "leaflet" but that was it. See 
http://www.mail-archive.com/dev@openoffice.apache.org/msg24775.html


I see the other thread has now done more progress, so I recommend that 
we simply keep discussing on that one.


Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: [INFRA] help needed with link change on our buildbot output page

[Kay Schenk]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


On 09/02/2015 10:16 AM, Gavin Mcdonald wrote:
> Thanks Kay, for script changes, allow an hour to show on the Web as
> most run on an hour cron
> 
> HTH
> 
> Gav...

OK, changes are out there. Thanks for your guidance.

> 
> 
> On 2 Sep 2015 17:30, Kay Schenk  wrote:
>> 
> 
> 
> On 09/02/2015 04:06 AM, Gavin McDonald wrote:
 
> On 2 Sep 2015, at 1:27 am, Kay Schenk   > wrote:
> 
> Can someone provide instructions on how to make changes on
> our buildbot output page--
> 
> https://ci.apache.org/projects/openoffice/
> 
> Right now, the Win nightly link is going to: 
> https://ci.apache.org/projects/openoffice/buildlogs/win/log/unxlngx6.pro.build.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When it needs to go to:
> https://ci.apache.org/projects/openoffice/buildlogs/win/log/wntmsci12.pro.build.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This would help us troubleshoot.
> 
> I thought committers could do this, but if we can, I don't
> know how. Sorry.
 
 So that page is generated from a script which lives at:
 
 https://svn.apache.org/repos/infra/infrastructure/buildbot/aegis/buildmaster/master1/public_html/projects/openoffice/create-ooo-snapshots-index.sh
 
 
 
 
 
 Any committer can edit that file and any other file under the
  projects/* part of the tree.
 
 However, I’ve fixed this for you and the updated link is now
 live.
> 
> Thank you for the fix and the information. There are a few more
> tweaks that would be nice but I will happily fix them.:)
> 
 
 HTH
 
 Gav…
 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> -- 
> --
> 
> 
> 
> MzK
> 
> “The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single
> step.” --Lao Tzu
 
 
> 
>> 
>> -
>>  To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org 
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>> 
> 
> -
>
> 
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
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> 

- -- 
- 
MzK

“The journey of a thousand miles begins
 with a single step.”
  --Lao Tzu


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Re: ODF Plugfest: participation and leaflets

[Basil Cousins]

Hi Roberto,

Great to be in touch.  I will ask Graham Taylor to raise an invoice for
£100+VAT to cover the English Version.
Can you let us have the address to be put on the invoice?

Shal we use the same logo as in the London version for Apache Open Office
or is there a more recent one?

Basil

Basil

On 4 September 2015 at 12:38, Roberto Galoppini  wrote:

>
>
> 2015-09-04 5:06 GMT+02:00 Louis Suárez-Potts :
>
>> Hi all,
>> Comments inline.
>>
>>
>> > On 03 Sep 15, at 16:24, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
>> >
>> > As we discussed some weeks ago, the next ODF Plugfest will be held in
>> The Hague, Netherlands, mid-September:
>> > http://plugfest.opendocumentformat.org/2015-thehague/programme/
>> >
>> > There are three issues that require attention in a very short time.
>> Deadline is 8 September when not otherwise specified.
>> >
>> > 1) Is anyone going in the end? We discussed this at length. I've never
>> considered going since it overlaps with another event I'm scheduled to
>> attend. Dennis and Roberto were both mentioned (and Dennis later clarified
>> he is busy in the US). Of course if someone goes we can still discuss to
>> allocate a budget from our events fund.
>>
>
> When I made plans to go I didn't know about much about my calendar of
> business meetings. As of now I can't commit to that trip, unfortunately.
>
>
>
>>
>> The event somewhat overlaps with a personal engagement but that may be
>> negotiable. It depends on how much subsidy we have to support this very
>> late trip—of mine, I mean. I’d be coming from Toronto, Canada. A quick
>> price check via Orbitz reveals that for a flight via the dodgy Air Transat
>> the cost (R/T) would be about 740 USD. Include an Airbnb room—don’t know
>> how much that would be but probably not that much, though still, for three
>> days, at leasts 150 USD, and probably more. (I’m guessing the Hague is
>> costly.) Besides Air Transat, the average price for airfare to AMS is about
>> 1300 USD; to the Hague (Rotterdam) 500 USD more or so. I’m guessing a train
>> trip from AMS is cheaper.
>>
>> I’ve been to several of these events, including, I think, the initiating
>> one. I know ODF fairly well, was on the Oasis TCs, etc. (I quit them a
>> couple of years ago.) The drawback for me going is I’m not developing ODF
>> or for ODF and though I can certainly represent AOO’s continued interest in
>> furthering usage of ODF, not to mention other Apache projects’ ODF work, to
>> some extent I’ll be mostly competent at relaying speech.
>>
>
> I agree, and I think it would be important to give a speech about our
> concerns around office formats' interoperability.
> I believe we can still ask Michiel or Basil to accommodate a similar ask.
>
>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > 2) I was contacted (for no special reason; I've never attended a
>> Plugfest) by Basil Cousins of Openforum Europe, who gave me permission to
>> forward his request here, about updating a leaflet for the next ODF
>> Plugfest. The 2014 version is here:
>> >
>> http://openforumeurope.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/OFE-COIS-DFD-ODF-Open-Document-Principles-for-Government-Technology-March-2015.pdf
>> > and there is also an infographic available at
>> http://www.openforumeurope.org/library/odf-toolkit-2/
>> > Can you please suggest content updates to this leaflet? Basil in is CC.
>> We can discuss updates on this list and then one of us, ideally someone who
>> attends the event, can send the final comments to Basil. The part needing
>> more attention is the Applications Choices section on page 5.
>>
>> I can look at it, too. But others, here, can surely weigh in. I think we
>> have talent to enhance this, no?
>>
>> >
>> > 3) For this leaflet they also ask for a contribution for printing. One
>> can support printing the English version (addressed to UK government), the
>> Dutch version (addressed to Dutch government) or both. The contribution is
>> 100 GBP (so about 135 EUR or 150 USD) for each edition. If you feel it
>> would be useful, I assume that the fund for events and merchandising could
>> be used to support this. Please state if you propose that we allocate
>> budget and, in case it's a yes, if you'd rather contribute to the English
>> version or both versions.
>>
>> I think it would be money well spent.
>>
>
> Agree for the English version, as far as we can also enrich its content,
> though.
>
> Roberto
>
>
>
>> Note. This ODF Plugfest brings together some rather important players
>> form the UK, which is supposedly tending toward it. Independent of any
>> particular implementation’s concerns or desires, it is, as Roberto G.
>> pointed out, important that there be *real* solid interest in working with
>> the government to satisfy their mandate.
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >  Andrea.
>> >
>> -best
>> louis
>>
>> > -
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>> > 

Re: ODF Plugfest: participation and leaflets

[Louis Suárez-Potts]

Roberto, do you want to initiate the discussion for a vote by the community 
including the binding PMC members? I would prefer to keep it all public and 
just have the PMC members indicate at vote their status.

But go ahead and let’s get the issue a) clarified and b) framed in such a way 
that we can act on it.

louis


> On 04 Sep 15, at 10:04, Roberto Galoppini  wrote:
> 
> Hi Basil,
> 
> Nice to catch up again. I want to clarify that here I'm expressing only my
> opinion, we do need the PMC to establish if we want - as a community - to
> sponsor the English version.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 2015-09-04 14:31 GMT+02:00 Basil Cousins :
> 
>> Hi Roberto,
>> 
>> Great to be in touch.  I will ask Graham Taylor to raise an invoice for
>> £100+VAT to cover the English Version.
>> Can you let us have the address to be put on the invoice?
>> 
>> Shal we use the same logo as in the London version for Apache Open Office
>> or is there a more recent one?
>> 
>> Basil
>> 
>> Basil
>> 
>> On 4 September 2015 at 12:38, Roberto Galoppini <
>> roberto.galopp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 2015-09-04 5:06 GMT+02:00 Louis Suárez-Potts :
>>> 
 Hi all,
 Comments inline.
 
 
> On 03 Sep 15, at 16:24, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
> 
> As we discussed some weeks ago, the next ODF Plugfest will be held in
 The Hague, Netherlands, mid-September:
> http://plugfest.opendocumentformat.org/2015-thehague/programme/
> 
> There are three issues that require attention in a very short time.
 Deadline is 8 September when not otherwise specified.
> 
> 1) Is anyone going in the end? We discussed this at length. I've never
 considered going since it overlaps with another event I'm scheduled to
 attend. Dennis and Roberto were both mentioned (and Dennis later clarified
 he is busy in the US). Of course if someone goes we can still discuss to
 allocate a budget from our events fund.
 
>>> 
>>> When I made plans to go I didn't know about much about my calendar of
>>> business meetings. As of now I can't commit to that trip, unfortunately.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 
 The event somewhat overlaps with a personal engagement but that may be
 negotiable. It depends on how much subsidy we have to support this very
 late trip—of mine, I mean. I’d be coming from Toronto, Canada. A quick
 price check via Orbitz reveals that for a flight via the dodgy Air Transat
 the cost (R/T) would be about 740 USD. Include an Airbnb room—don’t know
 how much that would be but probably not that much, though still, for three
 days, at leasts 150 USD, and probably more. (I’m guessing the Hague is
 costly.) Besides Air Transat, the average price for airfare to AMS is about
 1300 USD; to the Hague (Rotterdam) 500 USD more or so. I’m guessing a train
 trip from AMS is cheaper.
 
 I’ve been to several of these events, including, I think, the initiating
 one. I know ODF fairly well, was on the Oasis TCs, etc. (I quit them a
 couple of years ago.) The drawback for me going is I’m not developing ODF
 or for ODF and though I can certainly represent AOO’s continued interest in
 furthering usage of ODF, not to mention other Apache projects’ ODF work, to
 some extent I’ll be mostly competent at relaying speech.
 
>>> 
>>> I agree, and I think it would be important to give a speech about our
>>> concerns around office formats' interoperability.
>>> I believe we can still ask Michiel or Basil to accommodate a similar ask.
>>> 
>>> 
 
 
> 
> 2) I was contacted (for no special reason; I've never attended a
 Plugfest) by Basil Cousins of Openforum Europe, who gave me permission to
 forward his request here, about updating a leaflet for the next ODF
 Plugfest. The 2014 version is here:
> 
 http://openforumeurope.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/OFE-COIS-DFD-ODF-Open-Document-Principles-for-Government-Technology-March-2015.pdf
> and there is also an infographic available at
 http://www.openforumeurope.org/library/odf-toolkit-2/
> Can you please suggest content updates to this leaflet? Basil in is
 CC. We can discuss updates on this list and then one of us, ideally someone
 who attends the event, can send the final comments to Basil. The part
 needing more attention is the Applications Choices section on page 5.
 
 I can look at it, too. But others, here, can surely weigh in. I think we
 have talent to enhance this, no?
 
> 
> 3) For this leaflet they also ask for a contribution for printing. One
 can support printing the English version (addressed to UK government), the
 Dutch version (addressed to Dutch government) or both. The contribution is
 100 GBP (so about 135 EUR or 150 USD) for each edition. If you feel it
 would be useful, I assume that the fund for 

RE: ODF Plugfest: participation and leaflets

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

I think the idea is to work toward consensus.  The proposal of a [VOTE] on a 
matter not yet made specific and discussed is not particularly advisable.

How about a [PROPOSE] or a [DISCUSS] thread.  If you look for a lazy consensus, 
please allow for the fact that this is a 3-day Holiday weekend in the United 
States.

 - Dennis

-Original Message-
From: Louis Suárez-Potts [mailto:lui...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 18:20
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: ODF Plugfest: participation and leaflets

Roberto, do you want to initiate the discussion for a vote by the community 
including the binding PMC members? I would prefer to keep it all public and 
just have the PMC members indicate at vote their status.

But go ahead and let’s get the issue a) clarified and b) framed in such a way 
that we can act on it.

louis


> On 04 Sep 15, at 10:04, Roberto Galoppini  wrote:
> 
> Hi Basil,
> 
> Nice to catch up again. I want to clarify that here I'm expressing only my
> opinion, we do need the PMC to establish if we want - as a community - to
> sponsor the English version.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 2015-09-04 14:31 GMT+02:00 Basil Cousins :
> 
>> Hi Roberto,
>> 
>> Great to be in touch.  I will ask Graham Taylor to raise an invoice for
>> £100+VAT to cover the English Version.
>> Can you let us have the address to be put on the invoice?
>> 
>> Shal we use the same logo as in the London version for Apache Open Office
>> or is there a more recent one?
>> 
>> Basil
>> 
>> Basil
>> 
>> On 4 September 2015 at 12:38, Roberto Galoppini <
>> roberto.galopp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 2015-09-04 5:06 GMT+02:00 Louis Suárez-Potts :
>>> 
 Hi all,
 Comments inline.
 
 
> On 03 Sep 15, at 16:24, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
> 
> As we discussed some weeks ago, the next ODF Plugfest will be held in
 The Hague, Netherlands, mid-September:
> http://plugfest.opendocumentformat.org/2015-thehague/programme/
> 
> There are three issues that require attention in a very short time.
 Deadline is 8 September when not otherwise specified.
> 
> 1) Is anyone going in the end? We discussed this at length. I've never
 considered going since it overlaps with another event I'm scheduled to
 attend. Dennis and Roberto were both mentioned (and Dennis later clarified
 he is busy in the US). Of course if someone goes we can still discuss to
 allocate a budget from our events fund.
 
>>> 
>>> When I made plans to go I didn't know about much about my calendar of
>>> business meetings. As of now I can't commit to that trip, unfortunately.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 
 The event somewhat overlaps with a personal engagement but that may be
 negotiable. It depends on how much subsidy we have to support this very
 late trip—of mine, I mean. I’d be coming from Toronto, Canada. A quick
 price check via Orbitz reveals that for a flight via the dodgy Air Transat
 the cost (R/T) would be about 740 USD. Include an Airbnb room—don’t know
 how much that would be but probably not that much, though still, for three
 days, at leasts 150 USD, and probably more. (I’m guessing the Hague is
 costly.) Besides Air Transat, the average price for airfare to AMS is about
 1300 USD; to the Hague (Rotterdam) 500 USD more or so. I’m guessing a train
 trip from AMS is cheaper.
 
 I’ve been to several of these events, including, I think, the initiating
 one. I know ODF fairly well, was on the Oasis TCs, etc. (I quit them a
 couple of years ago.) The drawback for me going is I’m not developing ODF
 or for ODF and though I can certainly represent AOO’s continued interest in
 furthering usage of ODF, not to mention other Apache projects’ ODF work, to
 some extent I’ll be mostly competent at relaying speech.
 
>>> 
>>> I agree, and I think it would be important to give a speech about our
>>> concerns around office formats' interoperability.
>>> I believe we can still ask Michiel or Basil to accommodate a similar ask.
>>> 
>>> 
 
 
> 
> 2) I was contacted (for no special reason; I've never attended a
 Plugfest) by Basil Cousins of Openforum Europe, who gave me permission to
 forward his request here, about updating a leaflet for the next ODF
 Plugfest. The 2014 version is here:
> 
 http://openforumeurope.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/OFE-COIS-DFD-ODF-Open-Document-Principles-for-Government-Technology-March-2015.pdf
> and there is also an infographic available at
 http://www.openforumeurope.org/library/odf-toolkit-2/
> Can you please suggest content updates to this leaflet? Basil in is
 CC. We can discuss updates on this list and then one of us, ideally someone
 who attends the event, can send the final comments to Basil. The part
 needing more attention is the 

Re: ODF Plugfest: participation and leaflets

[Louis Suárez-Potts]

Hi all,

> On 04 Sep 15, at 22:13, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:
> 
> I think the idea is to work toward consensus.  The proposal of a [VOTE] on a 
> matter not yet made specific and discussed is not particularly advisable.

Oh dear. I guess I was not clear and inadvertently caused more confusion than 
usual. I wrote, "Roberto, do you want to imitate the discussion for a vote…." 
That is to say, not have a vote, but yet to have discussion that would be 
productive and result in a vote. I actually did not mean to suggest we should 
leap to a vote. As my language I thought had conveyed, I want to hit the "Let’s 
Think About This" button and then press the "Let's Act As A Community."


> 
> How about a [PROPOSE] or a [DISCUSS] thread.  If you look for a lazy 
> consensus, please allow for the fact that this is a 3-day Holiday weekend in 
> the United States.

Sure. A discussion that could lead to vote, in the end. I think the most 
important point I was actually trying to convey to Roberto is that there is no 
project lead or chair and if he deems the issue here important, then he is 
entitled to initiate the process the would lead in the end to action. 

Louis
> 
> - Dennis
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Louis Suárez-Potts [mailto:lui...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 18:20
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: ODF Plugfest: participation and leaflets
> 
> Roberto, do you want to initiate the discussion for a vote by the community 
> including the binding PMC members? I would prefer to keep it all public and 
> just have the PMC members indicate at vote their status.
> 
> But go ahead and let’s get the issue a) clarified and b) framed in such a way 
> that we can act on it.
> 
> louis
> 
> 
>> On 04 Sep 15, at 10:04, Roberto Galoppini  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Basil,
>> 
>> Nice to catch up again. I want to clarify that here I'm expressing only my
>> opinion, we do need the PMC to establish if we want - as a community - to
>> sponsor the English version.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> 2015-09-04 14:31 GMT+02:00 Basil Cousins :
>> 
>>> Hi Roberto,
>>> 
>>> Great to be in touch.  I will ask Graham Taylor to raise an invoice for
>>> £100+VAT to cover the English Version.
>>> Can you let us have the address to be put on the invoice?
>>> 
>>> Shal we use the same logo as in the London version for Apache Open Office
>>> or is there a more recent one?
>>> 
>>> Basil
>>> 
>>> Basil
>>> 
>>> On 4 September 2015 at 12:38, Roberto Galoppini <
>>> roberto.galopp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
 
 
 2015-09-04 5:06 GMT+02:00 Louis Suárez-Potts :
 
> Hi all,
> Comments inline.
> 
> 
>> On 03 Sep 15, at 16:24, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
>> 
>> As we discussed some weeks ago, the next ODF Plugfest will be held in
> The Hague, Netherlands, mid-September:
>> http://plugfest.opendocumentformat.org/2015-thehague/programme/
>> 
>> There are three issues that require attention in a very short time.
> Deadline is 8 September when not otherwise specified.
>> 
>> 1) Is anyone going in the end? We discussed this at length. I've never
> considered going since it overlaps with another event I'm scheduled to
> attend. Dennis and Roberto were both mentioned (and Dennis later clarified
> he is busy in the US). Of course if someone goes we can still discuss to
> allocate a budget from our events fund.
> 
 
 When I made plans to go I didn't know about much about my calendar of
 business meetings. As of now I can't commit to that trip, unfortunately.
 
 
 
> 
> The event somewhat overlaps with a personal engagement but that may be
> negotiable. It depends on how much subsidy we have to support this very
> late trip—of mine, I mean. I’d be coming from Toronto, Canada. A quick
> price check via Orbitz reveals that for a flight via the dodgy Air Transat
> the cost (R/T) would be about 740 USD. Include an Airbnb room—don’t know
> how much that would be but probably not that much, though still, for three
> days, at leasts 150 USD, and probably more. (I’m guessing the Hague is
> costly.) Besides Air Transat, the average price for airfare to AMS is 
> about
> 1300 USD; to the Hague (Rotterdam) 500 USD more or so. I’m guessing a 
> train
> trip from AMS is cheaper.
> 
> I’ve been to several of these events, including, I think, the initiating
> one. I know ODF fairly well, was on the Oasis TCs, etc. (I quit them a
> couple of years ago.) The drawback for me going is I’m not developing ODF
> or for ODF and though I can certainly represent AOO’s continued interest 
> in
> furthering usage of ODF, not to mention other Apache projects’ ODF work, 
> to
> some extent I’ll be mostly competent at relaying speech.
> 
 
 

Re: openoffice.org website - please change my name

[FR web forum]

Hello,
Your actual e-mail address is @gmail.com
The e-mail in this list is @fit4home.at
Could you send an e-mail from this last domain to check if you are the real 
person?

- Mail original -
De: "David Sterr" 
À: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Envoyé: Jeudi 3 Septembre 2015 21:56:43
Objet: openoffice.org website - please change my name

Hi,

I'm sorry I have to write a second time: Who is responsible for this 
https://www.openoffice.org/de/marketing/referenzkunden.html list?

I am at a new company and do not want that my name is listed with the 
old one - so can you please tell me how I can contact the webmaster of 
this subpage?

Best regards, Dave

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