Re: [dev] Re: [l10n-dev] Localisation moved into own module
Caolán McNamara wrote: > On Mon, 2009-06-22 at 18:48 +0200, Ivo Hinkelmann wrote: >> Hi Eike, >> >> Eike Rathke wrote: >> > >> > I guess that for building a language pack the OOo source tree would not >> > be needed anymore, except maybe a few modules, is still a wish for the >> > far future? >> >> MBA had the idea to move also all resource source files into a own >> module but we first need to discuss this a bit further > > On a not-really-semi-related topic, has anyone had a go at e.g. > reseating the subprojects of sdext/swext/sccomp onto using the sdk > makefiles and that sdk provided build-system system and move them out of > the OOo svn project into top-level "independent" projects of their own ? Currently we are reviewing the complete build process, including all tools, the way we are using the SCM etc. As a part of this review we will also have a look on how we can bring SDK and OOo build environment together. Before someone jumps to conclusions: we are not thinking about simply throwing out the SDK stuff and replacing it by the full-blown OOo build environment with all its bells and whistles, we are thinking about a more modular environment that can be customized to the particular needs. The things you mentioned fit nicely into these considerations, and this is also true for Ivo's work that started this thread. (BTW: I think that this is awesome work and it is definitely a first step into the right direction.) An announcement for the build environment review/rework and how people can contribute to it, either by giving input or by helping us doing the work, will follow soon. Regards, Mathias -- Mathias Bauer (mba) - Project Lead OpenOffice.org Writer OpenOffice.org Engineering at Sun: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS Please don't reply to "nospamfor...@gmx.de". I use it for the OOo lists and only rarely read other mails sent to it. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Re: [l10n-dev] Localisation moved into own module
Frank Schönheit - Sun Microsystems Germany wrote: > Hi Ivo, > >>> I guess that for building a language pack the OOo source tree would not >>> be needed anymore, except maybe a few modules, is still a wish for the >>> far future? >> >> MBA had the idea to move also all resource source files into a own >> module but we first need to discuss this a bit further > > Don't think this would be a good idea. I'd hate to deal with / build Yet > Another 100MB monster if I just want to change a resource string in a > project of mine. This is a misunderstanding due to the very "reduced" version of my idea. We have to balance two requirements: developers working on e.g. a dialog may want to keep the english resources in their code module (you just have proven that ;-)). OTOH developers building language packs would welcome to get rid of the source trees. There is a possible and clean way to fulfil both requirements, but it would require some coding work: we could keep the resouces in the source tree, but change the resource system in a way that the localizations don't contain complete resources but only the strings. At runtime the code then will always load the english resources and merges in all localized strings. Another potential benefit: we could get rid of the sdf format here and move to e.g. po files (or any other format that the localization community might prefer). So all code developers can work as they did before, localization developers get rid of the source trees and - IMHO even more important - of the RSC compiler and use a much easier processing. The price to pay is a little bit coding work in tools/vcl and a few more CPU cycles to burn when a dialog resource is loaded. Ciao, Mathias -- Mathias Bauer (mba) - Project Lead OpenOffice.org Writer OpenOffice.org Engineering at Sun: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS Please don't reply to "nospamfor...@gmx.de". I use it for the OOo lists and only rarely read other mails sent to it. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Re: [l10n-dev] Localisation moved into own module
Hi, Frank Schönheit - Sun Microsystems Germany schrieb: Hi Ivo, I guess that for building a language pack the OOo source tree would not be needed anymore, except maybe a few modules, is still a wish for the far future? MBA had the idea to move also all resource source files into a own module but we first need to discuss this a bit further Don't think this would be a good idea. I'd hate to deal with / build Yet Another 100MB monster if I just want to change a resource string in a project of mine. it is the question of the point of view. People who build languagepacks on a regular basis benefit a lot from this change. They don't have to check out the whole giant source tree, build the giant source tree etc ... Would this hurt so much ? Cheers, Ivo - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Re: [l10n-dev] Localisation moved into own module
Caolán McNamara wrote: On Mon, 2009-06-22 at 18:48 +0200, Ivo Hinkelmann wrote: Hi Eike, Eike Rathke wrote: I guess that for building a language pack the OOo source tree would not be needed anymore, except maybe a few modules, is still a wish for the far future? MBA had the idea to move also all resource source files into a own module but we first need to discuss this a bit further On a not-really-semi-related topic, has anyone had a go at e.g. reseating the subprojects of sdext/swext/sccomp onto using the sdk makefiles and that sdk provided build-system system and move them out of the OOo svn project into top-level "independent" projects of their own ? i've brainstormed a little bit with MBA about aligning the SDK build env with the OO build env. The current gnu make based example build env seems to be simpler on the first look maybe, i am not sure but there is still some complexity in it. I would really like to benefit from a shared tiny config file for the compiler switches and maybe some component specific (well documented) targets. But not the full blown one, a subset of them but using dmake and some extracted config files. The idea is to make it easier to get started with the SDK only and make it easy possible to include such projects later on in the normal office build. Sometimes it might be a good idea to include such projects in the normal build and include this components directly in the office. On the other hand it would be nice to have them independent, especially for really specific stuff ... Anyway we should keep in mind that it should be possible to have everything in one specific module. Think about NB or Eclipse extension projects. Juergen C. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Re: [l10n-dev] Localisation moved into own module
Hi Ivo, >> I guess that for building a language pack the OOo source tree would not >> be needed anymore, except maybe a few modules, is still a wish for the >> far future? > > MBA had the idea to move also all resource source files into a own > module but we first need to discuss this a bit further Don't think this would be a good idea. I'd hate to deal with / build Yet Another 100MB monster if I just want to change a resource string in a project of mine. JM2C Ciao Frank -- - Frank Schönheit, Software Engineer frank.schoenh...@sun.com - - Sun Microsystems http://www.sun.com/staroffice - - OpenOffice.org Base http://dba.openoffice.org - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Re: [l10n-dev] Localisation moved into own module
On Mon, 2009-06-22 at 18:48 +0200, Ivo Hinkelmann wrote: > Hi Eike, > > Eike Rathke wrote: > > > > I guess that for building a language pack the OOo source tree would not > > be needed anymore, except maybe a few modules, is still a wish for the > > far future? > > MBA had the idea to move also all resource source files into a own > module but we first need to discuss this a bit further On a not-really-semi-related topic, has anyone had a go at e.g. reseating the subprojects of sdext/swext/sccomp onto using the sdk makefiles and that sdk provided build-system system and move them out of the OOo svn project into top-level "independent" projects of their own ? C. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Re: [l10n-dev] Localisation moved into own module
Hi Rene, Rene Engelhard wrote: Hi, Thorsten Ziehm wrote: the goal to to build and deliver language packs without any dependencies. This CWS is the first step. There are still some steps open. But as I heard by Ivo, when this CWs is ready you can you can build the localization without any obj's / libs / whatever. But the [snip] So there will be a benefit. ;-) Though only a small one... :) you can build language packs without the need of building all the objs of svx, sw , binfilter and friends ... thats is already a bigger benefit, esp. if you don't own a 16 core machine ;) Cheers, Ivo - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Re: [l10n-dev] Localisation moved into own module
Hi Eike, Eike Rathke wrote: I guess that for building a language pack the OOo source tree would not be needed anymore, except maybe a few modules, is still a wish for the far future? MBA had the idea to move also all resource source files into a own module but we first need to discuss this a bit further Cheers, Ivo Eike - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Re: [l10n-dev] Localisation moved into own module
Hi, Thorsten Ziehm wrote: > the goal to to build and deliver language packs without any > dependencies. This CWS is the first step. There are still some steps > open. But as I heard by Ivo, when this CWs is ready you can you can > build the localization without any obj's / libs / whatever. But the Except transex3, rsc etc. but that its unavoidable, I agree :) [1] > source code is still needed in this step. So it doesn't help, as you need a full copy of the stuff anyway and thus also could just build it with the rest of the office And our FTP people won't allow a second copy of the OOo source in the archive just to build the translations out of it... > So there will be a benefit. ;-) Though only a small one... :) Regards, Rene [1] packagers probably can work around it, though - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Re: [l10n-dev] Localisation moved into own module
Hi Rene, the goal to to build and deliver language packs without any dependencies. This CWS is the first step. There are still some steps open. But as I heard by Ivo, when this CWs is ready you can you can build the localization without any obj's / libs / whatever. But the source code is still needed in this step. So there will be a benefit. ;-) Thorsten Rene Engelhard wrote: Hi, Thorsten Ziehm wrote: Ivo and others are working on it to realize it in the near future ;-) http://eis.services.openoffice.org/EIS2/cws.ShowCWS?Path=DEV300%2Fl10nframework01 How is that helpful? #build the l10n tools cd transex3 && build --all && deliver cd xmlhelp && build --all && deliver cd rsc && build --all && deliver OK. Obvious. # build only l10n targets , skip HID generation cd instsetoo_native && build --all L10N_framework=1 NO_HIDS=1 Why -all? Just for completeness and because you need some stuff for packaging? Or do we really need *all* the other modoules? This effectively needing the whole source tree anyway? What we need to have and what was Eikes question aboiut was to just need: cd l10n && build --all && deliver if that works out, fine. If not, that issue isn't what we talk about. Regards, Rene - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Re: [l10n-dev] Localisation moved into own module
>> the DEV300 m51 milestones contains the cws l10ncleanup04 that moves >> all the translations that are spread over the office code to the new >> module "l10n". > > Hey, wow, finally, well done! :-) > > Good news; not only for translators, but also for developers because now > a recursive grep for some resource ID in the source directories doesn't > produce a gazillion lines with localize.sdf content anymore. Indeed, that's great news, thanks! > And if one > wants to know to which source code module a certain dialog's message > belongs, it should be possible to grep that from the one > l10n/source/*/localize.sdf file. Just not for en-US :-( Well, en-GB > most times probably will deliver the result. http://grok.services.openoffice.org :) Ciao Frank -- - Frank Schönheit, Software Engineer frank.schoenh...@sun.com - - Sun Microsystems http://www.sun.com/staroffice - - OpenOffice.org Base http://dba.openoffice.org - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Re: [l10n-dev] Localisation moved into own module
Hi, Thorsten Ziehm wrote: > Ivo and others are working on it to realize it in the near future ;-) > http://eis.services.openoffice.org/EIS2/cws.ShowCWS?Path=DEV300%2Fl10nframework01 How is that helpful? #build the l10n tools cd transex3 && build --all && deliver cd xmlhelp && build --all && deliver cd rsc && build --all && deliver OK. Obvious. # build only l10n targets , skip HID generation cd instsetoo_native && build --all L10N_framework=1 NO_HIDS=1 Why -all? Just for completeness and because you need some stuff for packaging? Or do we really need *all* the other modoules? This effectively needing the whole source tree anyway? What we need to have and what was Eikes question aboiut was to just need: cd l10n && build --all && deliver if that works out, fine. If not, that issue isn't what we talk about. Regards, Rene - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org