Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs with PLC4X

[Stephen Snow]

Yeah I can see that WRT examples. 

On Mon, 2022-07-11 at 09:55 -0700, Otto Fowler wrote:
> Sorry, I don’t mean to confuse.
> Since we don’t have examples or documentation, and trying to pick
> between a bunch of people’s personal favorite GUI framework /
> programming language on a list is tiresome, I’m just recommending
> doing the doc, examples in each language, and letting people write a
> GUI in whatever they fancy ( outside the project ). Then a person may
> look at:
> * dependencies
> * what it takes to build
> * code maintainability
> * style and actually GUI
> for each IRL.
> 
> 
> 
> From: Stephen Snow 
> Reply: dev@plc4x.apache.org 
> Date: July 11, 2022 at 08:18:22
> To: dev@plc4x.apache.org 
> Subject:  Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for
> browsing PLCs with PLC4X 
> 
> 
> > So I took this to be a discussion about making a graphical browser
> > of
> > connected PLC's that PLC4X api was being used to develop some app
> > with
> > by the dev. In this case using PLC4X's discovery api as part of
> > this
> > tool. Am I missing something here? Otto seems to be referring to
> > implementation examples (which I think is a must for the doc's in
> > any
> > case).
> > 
> > In the spirit of using the Netbeans IDE (which I do) I have a
> > module
> > created which I am ready to add PLC4X functionality to, actually
> > the
> > maven bits are done, I just need to implement. Is there any doc for
> > the
> > discovery lib? Or could someone familiar with it suggest a starting
> > point for me?
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Stephen
> > 
> > On Fri, 2022-07-08 at 10:40 -0700, Otto Fowler wrote:
> > >  you say that like it is a bad thing?
> > > 
> > > From: Christofer Dutz 
> > > 
> > > Reply: dev@plc4x.apache.org 
> > > 
> > > Date: July 7, 2022 at 18:46:01
> > > To: dev@plc4x.apache.org 
> > > 
> > > Subject:  Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for
> > > browsing PLCs
> > > with PLC4X
> > > 
> > > So a hello-plc4x-discovery-and-browse using the default api?...
> > That
> > > should
> > > be a matter of minutes to Implement.
> > > 
> > > Holen Sie sich Outlook für Android
> > > 
> > > From: Otto Fowler 
> > > Sent: Thursday, July 7, 2022 6:17:49 PM
> > > To: dev@plc4x.apache.org 
> > > Subject: RE: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for
> > browsing
> > > PLCs
> > > with PLC4X
> > > 
> > > I would make the simplest possible example application, in each
> > > language
> > > plc4x supports, just to discover and show the browse ‘tree’ or
> > > whatever.
> > > Maybe console.
> > > 
> > > Then with these examples of API usage, people can have at it and
> > > there can
> > > be a bake off.
> > > 
> > > It will be easier to agree on what a ‘sample.go’, sample.rust,
> > > sample.python etc would look like, and a minimal set of
> > functionality
> > > than
> > > to pick a language and environment etc.
> > > 
> > > the samples have to build everywhere plc4x builds and for
> > everyone,
> > > the
> > > contrib/ui things can be optional so that we don’t have to setup
> > > anything
> > > exotic unless we want to.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > From: Christofer Dutz 
> > > 
> > > Reply: dev@plc4x.apache.org 
> > > 
> > > Date: June 26, 2022 at 07:11:52
> > > To: dev@plc4x.apache.org 
> > > 
> > > Subject: RE: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for
> > browsing
> > > PLCs
> > > with PLC4X
> > > 
> > > Hi Niclas,
> > > 
> > > yeah ... I agree ... if the core of such a tool is created the
> > right
> > > way,
> > > adding integration-wrappers into other tools should be easy. I
> > guess
> > > sticking to an "as standard as possible ui technology" would help
> > > with
> > > this. So, I could imagine that it's easier to integrate a JavaFX
> > ui
> > > into
> > > Netbeans, Eclips and IntelliJ than any client-server based web-ui
> > > tech.
> > > br/> <
> > > Also, could we consider having one logic core and multiple ui
> > > implementations.
> > > 
> > > Chris
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Niclas Hedhman  br/>Sent:: Samstag, 25.
> > > Juni 2022
> > > 07:59
> > > To: dev@plc4x.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for
> > browsing
> > > PLCs
> > > with PLC4X
> > > 
> > > On 2022-06-23 14:36, Christofer Dutz wrote:
> > > > I agree that if we use NetBeans it’s definitiely “eating our
> > own
> > > > (Apache) dogfood” … and yes it’s quite well established.
> > > > Probably you can create Standalone Applications with Netbeans
> > > > similar
> > > br/>> to how you can do that with Eclipse. <
> > > > However, do I imagine, that this would probably be a bit of
> > > > overkill
> > > br/>> for this usecase. <
> > > 
> > > There is a case to be made for having these kinds of tools being
> > part
> > > of an
> > > IDE, i.e. a plugin rather than an "App on NB".
> > > So, by being a little clever, the clickable-jar could also be
> > > Netbeans
> > > plugin compatible, IF that is 

Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs with PLC4X

[Otto Fowler]

Sorry, I don’t mean to confuse.

Since we don’t have examples or documentation, and trying to pick between a
bunch of people’s personal favorite GUI framework / programming language on
a list is tiresome, I’m just recommending doing the doc, examples in each
language, and letting people write a GUI in whatever they fancy ( outside
the project ). Then a person may look at:

   - dependencies
   - what it takes to build
   - code maintainability
   - style and actually GUI

for each IRL.




From: Stephen Snow  
Reply: dev@plc4x.apache.org  
Date: July 11, 2022 at 08:18:22
To: dev@plc4x.apache.org  
Subject:  Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs
with PLC4X

So I took this to be a discussion about making a graphical browser of
connected PLC's that PLC4X api was being used to develop some app with
by the dev. In this case using PLC4X's discovery api as part of this
tool. Am I missing something here? Otto seems to be referring to
implementation examples (which I think is a must for the doc's in any
case).

In the spirit of using the Netbeans IDE (which I do) I have a module
created which I am ready to add PLC4X functionality to, actually the
maven bits are done, I just need to implement. Is there any doc for the
discovery lib? Or could someone familiar with it suggest a starting
point for me?

Regards,
Stephen

On Fri, 2022-07-08 at 10:40 -0700, Otto Fowler wrote:
>  you say that like it is a bad thing?
>
> From: Christofer Dutz 
> 
> Reply: dev@plc4x.apache.org 
> 
> Date: July 7, 2022 at 18:46:01
> To: dev@plc4x.apache.org 
> 
> Subject:  Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for
> browsing PLCs
> with PLC4X
>
> So a hello-plc4x-discovery-and-browse using the default api?... That
> should
> be a matter of minutes to Implement.
>
> Holen Sie sich Outlook für Android
> 
> From: Otto Fowler 
> Sent: Thursday, July 7, 2022 6:17:49 PM
> To: dev@plc4x.apache.org 
> Subject: RE: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing
> PLCs
> with PLC4X
>
> I would make the simplest possible example application, in each
> language
> plc4x supports, just to discover and show the browse ‘tree’ or
> whatever.
> Maybe console.
>
> Then with these examples of API usage, people can have at it and
> there can
> be a bake off.
>
> It will be easier to agree on what a ‘sample.go’, sample.rust,
> sample.python etc would look like, and a minimal set of functionality
> than
> to pick a language and environment etc.
>
> the samples have to build everywhere plc4x builds and for everyone,
> the
> contrib/ui things can be optional so that we don’t have to setup
> anything
> exotic unless we want to.
>
>
>
>
> From: Christofer Dutz 
> 
> Reply: dev@plc4x.apache.org 
> 
> Date: June 26, 2022 at 07:11:52
> To: dev@plc4x.apache.org 
> 
> Subject: RE: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing
> PLCs
> with PLC4X
>
> Hi Niclas,
>
> yeah ... I agree ... if the core of such a tool is created the right
> way,
> adding integration-wrappers into other tools should be easy. I guess
> sticking to an "as standard as possible ui technology" would help
> with
> this. So, I could imagine that it's easier to integrate a JavaFX ui
> into
> Netbeans, Eclips and IntelliJ than any client-server based web-ui
> tech.
> br/> <
> Also, could we consider having one logic core and multiple ui
> implementations.
>
> Chris
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Niclas Hedhman  br/>Sent:: Samstag, 25.
> Juni 2022
> 07:59
> To: dev@plc4x.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing
> PLCs
> with PLC4X
>
> On 2022-06-23 14:36, Christofer Dutz wrote:
> > I agree that if we use NetBeans it’s definitiely “eating our own
> > (Apache) dogfood” … and yes it’s quite well established.
> > Probably you can create Standalone Applications with Netbeans
> > similar
> br/>> to how you can do that with Eclipse. <
> > However, do I imagine, that this would probably be a bit of
> > overkill
> br/>> for this usecase. <
>
> There is a case to be made for having these kinds of tools being part
> of an
> IDE, i.e. a plugin rather than an "App on NB".
> So, by being a little clever, the clickable-jar could also be
> Netbeans
> plugin compatible, IF that is wanted by people. It is mostly a matter
> of
> having hooks for user input that can be hooked into NB's system
> rather than
> handled directly. Minor thing if one take care of it up front.
> And if it is then a plugin, then it is up to someone else to package
> that
> as a dedicated NB app, if such desires exist.
>
>
> Cheers
> Niclas

Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs with PLC4X

[Stephen Snow]

So I took this to be a discussion about making a graphical browser of
connected PLC's that PLC4X api was being used to develop some app with
by the dev. In this case using PLC4X's discovery api as part of this
tool. Am I missing something here? Otto seems to be referring to
implementation examples (which I think is a must for the doc's in any
case).

In the spirit of using the Netbeans IDE (which I do) I have a module
created which I am ready to add PLC4X functionality to, actually the
maven bits are done, I just need to implement. Is there any doc for the
discovery lib? Or could someone familiar with it suggest a starting
point for me?

Regards,
Stephen

On Fri, 2022-07-08 at 10:40 -0700, Otto Fowler wrote:
>  you say that like it is a bad thing?
> 
> From: Christofer Dutz 
> 
> Reply: dev@plc4x.apache.org 
> 
> Date: July 7, 2022 at 18:46:01
> To: dev@plc4x.apache.org 
> 
> Subject:  Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for
> browsing PLCs
> with PLC4X
> 
> So a hello-plc4x-discovery-and-browse using the default api?... That
> should
> be a matter of minutes to Implement.
> 
> Holen Sie sich Outlook für Android
> 
> From: Otto Fowler 
> Sent: Thursday, July 7, 2022 6:17:49 PM
> To: dev@plc4x.apache.org 
> Subject: RE: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing
> PLCs
> with PLC4X
> 
> I would make the simplest possible example application, in each
> language
> plc4x supports, just to discover and show the browse ‘tree’ or
> whatever.
> Maybe console.
> 
> Then with these examples of API usage, people can have at it and
> there can
> be a bake off.
> 
> It will be easier to agree on what a ‘sample.go’, sample.rust,
> sample.python etc would look like, and a minimal set of functionality
> than
> to pick a language and environment etc.
> 
> the samples have to build everywhere plc4x builds and for everyone,
> the
> contrib/ui things can be optional so that we don’t have to setup
> anything
> exotic unless we want to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Christofer Dutz 
> 
> Reply: dev@plc4x.apache.org 
> 
> Date: June 26, 2022 at 07:11:52
> To: dev@plc4x.apache.org 
> 
> Subject: RE: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing
> PLCs
> with PLC4X
> 
> Hi Niclas,
> 
> yeah ... I agree ... if the core of such a tool is created the right
> way,
> adding integration-wrappers into other tools should be easy. I guess
> sticking to an "as standard as possible ui technology" would help
> with
> this. So, I could imagine that it's easier to integrate a JavaFX ui
> into
> Netbeans, Eclips and IntelliJ than any client-server based web-ui
> tech.
> br/> <
> Also, could we consider having one logic core and multiple ui
> implementations.
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Niclas Hedhman  br/>Sent:: Samstag, 25.
> Juni 2022
> 07:59
> To: dev@plc4x.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing
> PLCs
> with PLC4X
> 
> On 2022-06-23 14:36, Christofer Dutz wrote:
> > I agree that if we use NetBeans it’s definitiely “eating our own
> > (Apache) dogfood” … and yes it’s quite well established.
> > Probably you can create Standalone Applications with Netbeans
> > similar
> br/>> to how you can do that with Eclipse. <
> > However, do I imagine, that this would probably be a bit of
> > overkill
> br/>> for this usecase. <
> 
> There is a case to be made for having these kinds of tools being part
> of an
> IDE, i.e. a plugin rather than an "App on NB".
> So, by being a little clever, the clickable-jar could also be
> Netbeans
> plugin compatible, IF that is wanted by people. It is mostly a matter
> of
> having hooks for user input that can be hooked into NB's system
> rather than
> handled directly. Minor thing if one take care of it up front.
> And if it is then a plugin, then it is up to someone else to package
> that
> as a dedicated NB app, if such desires exist.
> 
> 
> Cheers
> Niclas

Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs with PLC4X

[Otto Fowler]

 you say that like it is a bad thing?

From: Christofer Dutz 

Reply: dev@plc4x.apache.org  
Date: July 7, 2022 at 18:46:01
To: dev@plc4x.apache.org  
Subject:  Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs
with PLC4X

So a hello-plc4x-discovery-and-browse using the default api?... That should
be a matter of minutes to Implement.

Holen Sie sich Outlook für Android

From: Otto Fowler 
Sent: Thursday, July 7, 2022 6:17:49 PM
To: dev@plc4x.apache.org 
Subject: RE: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs
with PLC4X

I would make the simplest possible example application, in each language
plc4x supports, just to discover and show the browse ‘tree’ or whatever.
Maybe console.

Then with these examples of API usage, people can have at it and there can
be a bake off.

It will be easier to agree on what a ‘sample.go’, sample.rust,
sample.python etc would look like, and a minimal set of functionality than
to pick a language and environment etc.

the samples have to build everywhere plc4x builds and for everyone, the
contrib/ui things can be optional so that we don’t have to setup anything
exotic unless we want to.




From: Christofer Dutz 

Reply: dev@plc4x.apache.org  
Date: June 26, 2022 at 07:11:52
To: dev@plc4x.apache.org  
Subject: RE: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs
with PLC4X

Hi Niclas,

yeah ... I agree ... if the core of such a tool is created the right way,
adding integration-wrappers into other tools should be easy. I guess
sticking to an "as standard as possible ui technology" would help with
this. So, I could imagine that it's easier to integrate a JavaFX ui into
Netbeans, Eclips and IntelliJ than any client-server based web-ui tech.
br/> <
Also, could we consider having one logic core and multiple ui
implementations.

Chris


-Original Message-
From: Niclas Hedhman  br/>Sent:: Samstag, 25. Juni 2022
07:59
To: dev@plc4x.apache.org
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs
with PLC4X

On 2022-06-23 14:36, Christofer Dutz wrote:
> I agree that if we use NetBeans it’s definitiely “eating our own
> (Apache) dogfood” … and yes it’s quite well established.
> Probably you can create Standalone Applications with Netbeans similar
br/>> to how you can do that with Eclipse. <
> However, do I imagine, that this would probably be a bit of overkill
br/>> for this usecase. <

There is a case to be made for having these kinds of tools being part of an
IDE, i.e. a plugin rather than an "App on NB".
So, by being a little clever, the clickable-jar could also be Netbeans
plugin compatible, IF that is wanted by people. It is mostly a matter of
having hooks for user input that can be hooked into NB's system rather than
handled directly. Minor thing if one take care of it up front.
And if it is then a plugin, then it is up to someone else to package that
as a dedicated NB app, if such desires exist.


Cheers
Niclas

Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs with PLC4X

[Otto Fowler]

for each language.
Simple is good. Using that others can write and submit something in their
preferred language and framework for consideration.

It will be easier to understand the tradeoffs and value if you can see it:
what it takes to build and include what it’s dependencies are what the code
looks like

If you are looking for something to include in the project.




From: Christofer Dutz 

Reply: dev@plc4x.apache.org  
Date: July 7, 2022 at 18:46:01
To: dev@plc4x.apache.org  
Subject:  Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs
with PLC4X

So a hello-plc4x-discovery-and-browse using the default api?... That should
be a matter of minutes to Implement.

Holen Sie sich Outlook für Android

From: Otto Fowler 
Sent: Thursday, July 7, 2022 6:17:49 PM
To: dev@plc4x.apache.org 
Subject: RE: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs
with PLC4X

I would make the simplest possible example application, in each language
plc4x supports, just to discover and show the browse ‘tree’ or whatever.
Maybe console.

Then with these examples of API usage, people can have at it and there can
be a bake off.

It will be easier to agree on what a ‘sample.go’, sample.rust,
sample.python etc would look like, and a minimal set of functionality than
to pick a language and environment etc.

the samples have to build everywhere plc4x builds and for everyone, the
contrib/ui things can be optional so that we don’t have to setup anything
exotic unless we want to.




From: Christofer Dutz 

Reply: dev@plc4x.apache.org  
Date: June 26, 2022 at 07:11:52
To: dev@plc4x.apache.org  
Subject: RE: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs
with PLC4X

Hi Niclas,

yeah ... I agree ... if the core of such a tool is created the right way,
adding integration-wrappers into other tools should be easy. I guess
sticking to an "as standard as possible ui technology" would help with
this. So, I could imagine that it's easier to integrate a JavaFX ui into
Netbeans, Eclips and IntelliJ than any client-server based web-ui tech.
br/> <
Also, could we consider having one logic core and multiple ui
implementations.

Chris


-Original Message-
From: Niclas Hedhman  br/>Sent:: Samstag, 25. Juni 2022
07:59
To: dev@plc4x.apache.org
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs
with PLC4X

On 2022-06-23 14:36, Christofer Dutz wrote:
> I agree that if we use NetBeans it’s definitiely “eating our own
> (Apache) dogfood” … and yes it’s quite well established.
> Probably you can create Standalone Applications with Netbeans similar
br/>> to how you can do that with Eclipse. <
> However, do I imagine, that this would probably be a bit of overkill
br/>> for this usecase. <

There is a case to be made for having these kinds of tools being part of an
IDE, i.e. a plugin rather than an "App on NB".
So, by being a little clever, the clickable-jar could also be Netbeans
plugin compatible, IF that is wanted by people. It is mostly a matter of
having hooks for user input that can be hooked into NB's system rather than
handled directly. Minor thing if one take care of it up front.
And if it is then a plugin, then it is up to someone else to package that
as a dedicated NB app, if such desires exist.


Cheers
Niclas

Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs with PLC4X

[Christofer Dutz]

So a hello-plc4x-discovery-and-browse using the default api?... That should be 
a matter of minutes to Implement.

Holen Sie sich Outlook für Android

From: Otto Fowler 
Sent: Thursday, July 7, 2022 6:17:49 PM
To: dev@plc4x.apache.org 
Subject: RE: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs with 
PLC4X

I would make the simplest possible example application, in each language
plc4x supports, just to discover and show the browse ‘tree’ or whatever.
Maybe console.

Then with these examples of API usage, people can have at it and there can
be a bake off.

It will be easier to agree on what a ‘sample.go’, sample.rust,
sample.python etc would look like, and a minimal set of functionality than
to pick a language and environment etc.

the samples have to build everywhere plc4x builds and for everyone, the
contrib/ui things can be optional so that we don’t have to setup anything
exotic unless we want to.




From: Christofer Dutz 

Reply: dev@plc4x.apache.org  
Date: June 26, 2022 at 07:11:52
To: dev@plc4x.apache.org  
Subject:  RE: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs
with PLC4X

Hi Niclas,

yeah ... I agree ... if the core of such a tool is created the right way,
adding integration-wrappers into other tools should be easy. I guess
sticking to an "as standard as possible ui technology" would help with
this. So, I could imagine that it's easier to integrate a JavaFX ui into
Netbeans, Eclips and IntelliJ than any client-server based web-ui tech.
br/> <
Also, could we consider having one logic core and multiple ui
implementations.

Chris


-Original Message-
From: Niclas Hedhman  br/>Sent:: Samstag, 25. Juni 2022
07:59
To: dev@plc4x.apache.org
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs
with PLC4X

On 2022-06-23 14:36, Christofer Dutz wrote:
> I agree that if we use NetBeans it’s definitiely “eating our own
> (Apache) dogfood” … and yes it’s quite well established.
> Probably you can create Standalone Applications with Netbeans similar
br/>> to how you can do that with Eclipse. <
> However, do I imagine, that this would probably be a bit of overkill
br/>> for this usecase. <

There is a case to be made for having these kinds of tools being part of an
IDE, i.e. a plugin rather than an "App on NB".
So, by being a little clever, the clickable-jar could also be Netbeans
plugin compatible, IF that is wanted by people. It is mostly a matter of
having hooks for user input that can be hooked into NB's system rather than
handled directly. Minor thing if one take care of it up front.
And if it is then a plugin, then it is up to someone else to package that
as a dedicated NB app, if such desires exist.


Cheers
Niclas

RE: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs with PLC4X

[Otto Fowler]

 I would make the simplest possible example application, in each language
plc4x supports, just to discover and show the browse ‘tree’ or whatever.
Maybe console.

Then with these examples of API usage, people can have at it and there can
be a bake off.

It will be easier to agree on what a ‘sample.go’, sample.rust,
sample.python etc would look like, and a minimal set of functionality than
to pick a language and environment etc.

the samples have to build everywhere plc4x builds and for everyone, the
contrib/ui things can be optional so that we don’t have to setup anything
exotic unless we want to.




From: Christofer Dutz 

Reply: dev@plc4x.apache.org  
Date: June 26, 2022 at 07:11:52
To: dev@plc4x.apache.org  
Subject:  RE: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs
with PLC4X

Hi Niclas,

yeah ... I agree ... if the core of such a tool is created the right way,
adding integration-wrappers into other tools should be easy. I guess
sticking to an "as standard as possible ui technology" would help with
this. So, I could imagine that it's easier to integrate a JavaFX ui into
Netbeans, Eclips and IntelliJ than any client-server based web-ui tech.
br/> <
Also, could we consider having one logic core and multiple ui
implementations.

Chris


-Original Message-
From: Niclas Hedhman  br/>Sent:: Samstag, 25. Juni 2022
07:59
To: dev@plc4x.apache.org
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs
with PLC4X

On 2022-06-23 14:36, Christofer Dutz wrote:
> I agree that if we use NetBeans it’s definitiely “eating our own
> (Apache) dogfood” … and yes it’s quite well established.
> Probably you can create Standalone Applications with Netbeans similar
br/>> to how you can do that with Eclipse. <
> However, do I imagine, that this would probably be a bit of overkill
br/>> for this usecase. <

There is a case to be made for having these kinds of tools being part of an
IDE, i.e. a plugin rather than an "App on NB".
So, by being a little clever, the clickable-jar could also be Netbeans
plugin compatible, IF that is wanted by people. It is mostly a matter of
having hooks for user input that can be hooked into NB's system rather than
handled directly. Minor thing if one take care of it up front.
And if it is then a plugin, then it is up to someone else to package that
as a dedicated NB app, if such desires exist.


Cheers
Niclas

RE: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs with PLC4X

[Christofer Dutz]

Hi Niclas,

yeah ... I agree ... if the core of such a tool is created the right way, 
adding integration-wrappers into other tools should be easy. I guess sticking 
to an "as standard as possible ui technology" would help with this. So, I could 
imagine that it's easier to integrate a JavaFX ui into Netbeans, Eclips and 
IntelliJ than any client-server based web-ui tech. 

Also, could we consider having one logic core and multiple ui implementations.

Chris


-Original Message-
From: Niclas Hedhman  
Sent: Samstag, 25. Juni 2022 07:59
To: dev@plc4x.apache.org
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs with 
PLC4X

On 2022-06-23 14:36, Christofer Dutz wrote:
> I agree that if we use NetBeans it’s definitiely “eating our own
> (Apache) dogfood” … and yes it’s quite well established.
> Probably you can create Standalone Applications with Netbeans similar 
> to how you can do that with Eclipse.
> However, do I imagine, that this would probably be a bit of overkill 
> for this usecase.

There is a case to be made for having these kinds of tools being part of an 
IDE, i.e. a plugin rather than an "App on NB".
So, by being a little clever, the clickable-jar could also be Netbeans plugin 
compatible, IF that is wanted by people. It is mostly a matter of having hooks 
for user input that can be hooked into NB's system rather than handled 
directly. Minor thing if one take care of it up front.
And if it is then a plugin, then it is up to someone else to package that as a 
dedicated NB app, if such desires exist.


Cheers
Niclas

Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs with PLC4X

[Niclas Hedhman]

On 2022-06-23 14:36, Christofer Dutz wrote:

I agree that if we use NetBeans it’s definitiely “eating our own
(Apache) dogfood” … and yes it’s quite well established.
Probably you can create Standalone Applications with Netbeans similar
to how you can do that with Eclipse.
However, do I imagine, that this would probably be a bit of overkill
for this usecase.


There is a case to be made for having these kinds of tools being part of 
an IDE, i.e. a plugin rather than an "App on NB".
So, by being a little clever, the clickable-jar could also be Netbeans 
plugin compatible, IF that is wanted by people. It is mostly a matter of 
having hooks for user input that can be hooked into NB's system rather 
than handled directly. Minor thing if one take care of it up front.
And if it is then a plugin, then it is up to someone else to package 
that as a dedicated NB app, if such desires exist.



Cheers
Niclas

Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs with PLC4X

[Christofer Dutz]

Let me come back to the question: who would be willing and able to work on 
something like that... Or I'll create a new thread and we can continue naming 
technologies here ;-)

Holen Sie sich Outlook für Android

From: Gaurav P 
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 3:29:36 AM
To: dev@plc4x.apache.org 
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs with 
PLC4X

I think Flutter can be  a cross-platform UI toolkit to implement  GUI on
desktops (Windows/Linux/Mac) , mobile (android/IoS), and web ... via local
API Proxy
I would be interested in contributing

On Fri, Jun 24, 2022 at 2:31 AM Sebastian Rühl  wrote:

> Now we still missing JavaEE in the proposal List XD
>
> - Sebastian
>
> On 2022/06/23 16:54:35 Łukasz Dywicki wrote:
> > I agree that electron is a great tool.
> > It gives you all the problems you had with desktop combined with all
> > complexity of modern web development. ;-)
> >
> > If goal is getting data from protocol available via serial port then
> > electron is an unnecessary complication. You need to launch local server
> > with an API to let gui receive data (assuming gui is in js or similar).
> > Given that we don't have many UI folks who do webdev on daily basis I am
> > afraid we could be easily burred by that part.
> >
> > Sure, without trying we just speculate, so anyone who wants promote
> > specific tech is welcome to start working on the thing. :)
> >
> > BTW for further comparisons, I recall there is also a wx-widgets toolkit
> > which is cross platform.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Łukasz
> >
> > On 23.06.2022 18:31, Lukas Ott wrote:
> > > What about https://cordova.apache.org/ and creating an Electron App?
> > >
> > >
> https://cordova.apache.org/docs/en/11.x/guide/platforms/electron/index.html
> > >
> > > So we can deploy easily to all kinds of platforms?
> > >
> > > Example for a very successful Frontend application:
> > > https://github.com/jgraph/drawio
> > >
> > > Interesting discussion a few years ago:
> > > https://twitter.com/tuxtor/status/1167454864932319232
> > >
> > > -> Electron is de facto the standard for Desktop Applications at least
> at
> > > the moment.
> > >
> > > https://medium.com/the-web-tub/electron-on-cordova-29ede5d6d789
> > >
> > >
> https://www.reddit.com/r/javahelp/comments/lrg2ho/web_app_vs_java_fx_vs_electron_js/
> > >
> > > My five cents to this conversation ;-)
> > >
> > > Luk
> > >
> > > Am Do., 23. Juni 2022 um 16:19 Uhr schrieb Sebastian Rühl <
> sru...@apache.org
> > >> :
> > >
> > >> I would vote doing it as a terminal application with tcell :D
> > >>
> > >> https://github.com/gdamore/tcell
> > >> https://github.com/gcla/gowid
> > >>
> > >> good example for that is termshark
> > >>
> > >> - Sebastian
> > >>
> > >> On 2022/06/23 13:47:29 Christofer Dutz wrote:
> > >>> Hi all,
> > >>>
> > >>> Great to see this discussion here :-)
> > >>>
> > >>> Well, I agree that going down the lane of basing something on
> NetBeans,
> > >> Eclipse, IntelliJ, VSCode makes the tool a bit too big and
> complicated.
> > >> Integrating something based on Eclipse into our build also would add
> > >> Nightmares to that.
> > >>>
> > >>> I probably would have chosen Java/Kotlin with JavaFX ... but I would
> > >> say, those who actually work on it should choose what they are
> comfortable
> > >> with.
> > >>>
> > >>> So perhaps we could see who's actually interested, willing and able
> to
> > >> help on the coding and then these people should discuss how to
> implement
> > >> it. I'll be available as a "Mentor" if any help is needed in
> integrating
> > >> that into the build or if PLC4X related help is needed.
> > >>>
> > >>> Chris
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> -Original Message-
> > >>> From: Stephen Snow 
> > >>> Sent: Donnerstag, 23. Juni 2022 15:31
> > >>> To: dev@plc4x.apache.org
> > >>> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing
> > >> PLCs with PLC4X
> > >>>
> > >>> Truly,
> > >>> To scaffold an application that can be rapidly utilized in
> Java/Kotlin I
> > >> would strongly recommend Quarkus from https://quarkus.io/. It likes
> to
> > >> use the GraalVM and readily can build out to native or native in
> container.
> > >> It can be deployed ootb in development mode with ci happening as you
> > >> develop in netbeans say.
> > >>>
> > >>> Just my 2c worth.
> > >>>
> > >>> Regards,
> > >>> Stephen
> > >>> On Thu, 2022-06-23 at 14:59 +0200, Łukasz Dywicki wrote:
> >  I been wrapping head around this as I had a necessity to watch
> CANopen
> >  traffic decoded by plc4x. I ended up building fairly basic web page
> >  which displayed most recent frames (so I could stay with local
> >  socketcan transport), yet it was far from useful or portable.
> Recently
> >  I also did struggle a lot with bloody modbus. My usecases are often
> >  focused on making the commissioning to generate further software
> >  configuration.
> > 
> >  My little 

Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs with PLC4X

[Gaurav P]

I think Flutter can be  a cross-platform UI toolkit to implement  GUI on
desktops (Windows/Linux/Mac) , mobile (android/IoS), and web ... via local
API Proxy
I would be interested in contributing

On Fri, Jun 24, 2022 at 2:31 AM Sebastian Rühl  wrote:

> Now we still missing JavaEE in the proposal List XD
>
> - Sebastian
>
> On 2022/06/23 16:54:35 Łukasz Dywicki wrote:
> > I agree that electron is a great tool.
> > It gives you all the problems you had with desktop combined with all
> > complexity of modern web development. ;-)
> >
> > If goal is getting data from protocol available via serial port then
> > electron is an unnecessary complication. You need to launch local server
> > with an API to let gui receive data (assuming gui is in js or similar).
> > Given that we don't have many UI folks who do webdev on daily basis I am
> > afraid we could be easily burred by that part.
> >
> > Sure, without trying we just speculate, so anyone who wants promote
> > specific tech is welcome to start working on the thing. :)
> >
> > BTW for further comparisons, I recall there is also a wx-widgets toolkit
> > which is cross platform.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Łukasz
> >
> > On 23.06.2022 18:31, Lukas Ott wrote:
> > > What about https://cordova.apache.org/ and creating an Electron App?
> > >
> > >
> https://cordova.apache.org/docs/en/11.x/guide/platforms/electron/index.html
> > >
> > > So we can deploy easily to all kinds of platforms?
> > >
> > > Example for a very successful Frontend application:
> > > https://github.com/jgraph/drawio
> > >
> > > Interesting discussion a few years ago:
> > > https://twitter.com/tuxtor/status/1167454864932319232
> > >
> > > -> Electron is de facto the standard for Desktop Applications at least
> at
> > > the moment.
> > >
> > > https://medium.com/the-web-tub/electron-on-cordova-29ede5d6d789
> > >
> > >
> https://www.reddit.com/r/javahelp/comments/lrg2ho/web_app_vs_java_fx_vs_electron_js/
> > >
> > > My five cents to this conversation ;-)
> > >
> > > Luk
> > >
> > > Am Do., 23. Juni 2022 um 16:19 Uhr schrieb Sebastian Rühl <
> sru...@apache.org
> > >> :
> > >
> > >> I would vote doing it as a terminal application with tcell :D
> > >>
> > >> https://github.com/gdamore/tcell
> > >> https://github.com/gcla/gowid
> > >>
> > >> good example for that is termshark
> > >>
> > >> - Sebastian
> > >>
> > >> On 2022/06/23 13:47:29 Christofer Dutz wrote:
> > >>> Hi all,
> > >>>
> > >>> Great to see this discussion here :-)
> > >>>
> > >>> Well, I agree that going down the lane of basing something on
> NetBeans,
> > >> Eclipse, IntelliJ, VSCode makes the tool a bit too big and
> complicated.
> > >> Integrating something based on Eclipse into our build also would add
> > >> Nightmares to that.
> > >>>
> > >>> I probably would have chosen Java/Kotlin with JavaFX ... but I would
> > >> say, those who actually work on it should choose what they are
> comfortable
> > >> with.
> > >>>
> > >>> So perhaps we could see who's actually interested, willing and able
> to
> > >> help on the coding and then these people should discuss how to
> implement
> > >> it. I'll be available as a "Mentor" if any help is needed in
> integrating
> > >> that into the build or if PLC4X related help is needed.
> > >>>
> > >>> Chris
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> -Original Message-
> > >>> From: Stephen Snow 
> > >>> Sent: Donnerstag, 23. Juni 2022 15:31
> > >>> To: dev@plc4x.apache.org
> > >>> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing
> > >> PLCs with PLC4X
> > >>>
> > >>> Truly,
> > >>> To scaffold an application that can be rapidly utilized in
> Java/Kotlin I
> > >> would strongly recommend Quarkus from https://quarkus.io/. It likes
> to
> > >> use the GraalVM and readily can build out to native or native in
> container.
> > >> It can be deployed ootb in development mode with ci happening as you
> > >> develop in netbeans say.
> > >>>
> > >>> Just my 2c worth.
> > >>>
> > >>> Regards,
> > >>> Stephen
> > >>> On Thu, 2022-06-23 at 14:59 +0200, Łukasz Dywicki wrote:
> >  I been wrapping head around this as I had a necessity to watch
> CANopen
> >  traffic decoded by plc4x. I ended up building fairly basic web page
> >  which displayed most recent frames (so I could stay with local
> >  socketcan transport), yet it was far from useful or portable.
> Recently
> >  I also did struggle a lot with bloody modbus. My usecases are often
> >  focused on making the commissioning to generate further software
> >  configuration.
> > 
> >  My little research in topic of desktop applications ended up at
> javafx
> >  which allows to make it small and compile to native binary thanks to
> >  graal. My experiences with RCP platforms are rather bad (I did some
> >  small Eclipse RCP projects), even if I have no issues with OSGi.
> >  Problem
> >  I see in RCP platforms is sparse development documentation, I also
> >  perceive both Eclipse RCP and Netbeans as 

Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs with PLC4X

[Sebastian Rühl]

Now we still missing JavaEE in the proposal List XD

- Sebastian

On 2022/06/23 16:54:35 Łukasz Dywicki wrote:
> I agree that electron is a great tool.
> It gives you all the problems you had with desktop combined with all 
> complexity of modern web development. ;-)
> 
> If goal is getting data from protocol available via serial port then 
> electron is an unnecessary complication. You need to launch local server 
> with an API to let gui receive data (assuming gui is in js or similar).
> Given that we don't have many UI folks who do webdev on daily basis I am 
> afraid we could be easily burred by that part.
> 
> Sure, without trying we just speculate, so anyone who wants promote 
> specific tech is welcome to start working on the thing. :)
> 
> BTW for further comparisons, I recall there is also a wx-widgets toolkit 
> which is cross platform.
> 
> Cheers,
> Łukasz
> 
> On 23.06.2022 18:31, Lukas Ott wrote:
> > What about https://cordova.apache.org/ and creating an Electron App?
> > 
> > https://cordova.apache.org/docs/en/11.x/guide/platforms/electron/index.html
> > 
> > So we can deploy easily to all kinds of platforms?
> > 
> > Example for a very successful Frontend application:
> > https://github.com/jgraph/drawio
> > 
> > Interesting discussion a few years ago:
> > https://twitter.com/tuxtor/status/1167454864932319232
> > 
> > -> Electron is de facto the standard for Desktop Applications at least at
> > the moment.
> > 
> > https://medium.com/the-web-tub/electron-on-cordova-29ede5d6d789
> > 
> > https://www.reddit.com/r/javahelp/comments/lrg2ho/web_app_vs_java_fx_vs_electron_js/
> > 
> > My five cents to this conversation ;-)
> > 
> > Luk
> > 
> > Am Do., 23. Juni 2022 um 16:19 Uhr schrieb Sebastian Rühl  >> :
> > 
> >> I would vote doing it as a terminal application with tcell :D
> >>
> >> https://github.com/gdamore/tcell
> >> https://github.com/gcla/gowid
> >>
> >> good example for that is termshark
> >>
> >> - Sebastian
> >>
> >> On 2022/06/23 13:47:29 Christofer Dutz wrote:
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> Great to see this discussion here :-)
> >>>
> >>> Well, I agree that going down the lane of basing something on NetBeans,
> >> Eclipse, IntelliJ, VSCode makes the tool a bit too big and complicated.
> >> Integrating something based on Eclipse into our build also would add
> >> Nightmares to that.
> >>>
> >>> I probably would have chosen Java/Kotlin with JavaFX ... but I would
> >> say, those who actually work on it should choose what they are comfortable
> >> with.
> >>>
> >>> So perhaps we could see who's actually interested, willing and able to
> >> help on the coding and then these people should discuss how to implement
> >> it. I'll be available as a "Mentor" if any help is needed in integrating
> >> that into the build or if PLC4X related help is needed.
> >>>
> >>> Chris
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: Stephen Snow 
> >>> Sent: Donnerstag, 23. Juni 2022 15:31
> >>> To: dev@plc4x.apache.org
> >>> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing
> >> PLCs with PLC4X
> >>>
> >>> Truly,
> >>> To scaffold an application that can be rapidly utilized in Java/Kotlin I
> >> would strongly recommend Quarkus from https://quarkus.io/. It likes to
> >> use the GraalVM and readily can build out to native or native in container.
> >> It can be deployed ootb in development mode with ci happening as you
> >> develop in netbeans say.
> >>>
> >>> Just my 2c worth.
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Stephen
> >>> On Thu, 2022-06-23 at 14:59 +0200, Łukasz Dywicki wrote:
>  I been wrapping head around this as I had a necessity to watch CANopen
>  traffic decoded by plc4x. I ended up building fairly basic web page
>  which displayed most recent frames (so I could stay with local
>  socketcan transport), yet it was far from useful or portable. Recently
>  I also did struggle a lot with bloody modbus. My usecases are often
>  focused on making the commissioning to generate further software
>  configuration.
> 
>  My little research in topic of desktop applications ended up at javafx
>  which allows to make it small and compile to native binary thanks to
>  graal. My experiences with RCP platforms are rather bad (I did some
>  small Eclipse RCP projects), even if I have no issues with OSGi.
>  Problem
>  I see in RCP platforms is sparse development documentation, I also
>  perceive both Eclipse RCP and Netbeans as focused mainly on organizing
>  navigation while strongly depending on UI frameworks (jface/swt or
>  swing/awt). Effectively you still need to build tables and so on, but
>  with much more overhead.
>  Please do not take above too seriously in context of Netbeans, I don't
>  know much about it and its flexibility. I don't know how to build it
>  with Maven, hence it feels strange.
>  For the Kotlin stuff and frameworks there - I can say that any UI
>  project which Google is 

Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs with PLC4X

[Łukasz Dywicki]

I agree that electron is a great tool.
It gives you all the problems you had with desktop combined with all 
complexity of modern web development. ;-)


If goal is getting data from protocol available via serial port then 
electron is an unnecessary complication. You need to launch local server 
with an API to let gui receive data (assuming gui is in js or similar).
Given that we don't have many UI folks who do webdev on daily basis I am 
afraid we could be easily burred by that part.


Sure, without trying we just speculate, so anyone who wants promote 
specific tech is welcome to start working on the thing. :)


BTW for further comparisons, I recall there is also a wx-widgets toolkit 
which is cross platform.


Cheers,
Łukasz

On 23.06.2022 18:31, Lukas Ott wrote:

What about https://cordova.apache.org/ and creating an Electron App?

https://cordova.apache.org/docs/en/11.x/guide/platforms/electron/index.html

So we can deploy easily to all kinds of platforms?

Example for a very successful Frontend application:
https://github.com/jgraph/drawio

Interesting discussion a few years ago:
https://twitter.com/tuxtor/status/1167454864932319232

-> Electron is de facto the standard for Desktop Applications at least at
the moment.

https://medium.com/the-web-tub/electron-on-cordova-29ede5d6d789

https://www.reddit.com/r/javahelp/comments/lrg2ho/web_app_vs_java_fx_vs_electron_js/

My five cents to this conversation ;-)

Luk

Am Do., 23. Juni 2022 um 16:19 Uhr schrieb Sebastian Rühl 
:



I would vote doing it as a terminal application with tcell :D

https://github.com/gdamore/tcell
https://github.com/gcla/gowid

good example for that is termshark

- Sebastian

On 2022/06/23 13:47:29 Christofer Dutz wrote:

Hi all,

Great to see this discussion here :-)

Well, I agree that going down the lane of basing something on NetBeans,

Eclipse, IntelliJ, VSCode makes the tool a bit too big and complicated.
Integrating something based on Eclipse into our build also would add
Nightmares to that.


I probably would have chosen Java/Kotlin with JavaFX ... but I would

say, those who actually work on it should choose what they are comfortable
with.


So perhaps we could see who's actually interested, willing and able to

help on the coding and then these people should discuss how to implement
it. I'll be available as a "Mentor" if any help is needed in integrating
that into the build or if PLC4X related help is needed.


Chris


-Original Message-
From: Stephen Snow 
Sent: Donnerstag, 23. Juni 2022 15:31
To: dev@plc4x.apache.org
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing

PLCs with PLC4X


Truly,
To scaffold an application that can be rapidly utilized in Java/Kotlin I

would strongly recommend Quarkus from https://quarkus.io/. It likes to
use the GraalVM and readily can build out to native or native in container.
It can be deployed ootb in development mode with ci happening as you
develop in netbeans say.


Just my 2c worth.

Regards,
Stephen
On Thu, 2022-06-23 at 14:59 +0200, Łukasz Dywicki wrote:

I been wrapping head around this as I had a necessity to watch CANopen
traffic decoded by plc4x. I ended up building fairly basic web page
which displayed most recent frames (so I could stay with local
socketcan transport), yet it was far from useful or portable. Recently
I also did struggle a lot with bloody modbus. My usecases are often
focused on making the commissioning to generate further software
configuration.

My little research in topic of desktop applications ended up at javafx
which allows to make it small and compile to native binary thanks to
graal. My experiences with RCP platforms are rather bad (I did some
small Eclipse RCP projects), even if I have no issues with OSGi.
Problem
I see in RCP platforms is sparse development documentation, I also
perceive both Eclipse RCP and Netbeans as focused mainly on organizing
navigation while strongly depending on UI frameworks (jface/swt or
swing/awt). Effectively you still need to build tables and so on, but
with much more overhead.
Please do not take above too seriously in context of Netbeans, I don't
know much about it and its flexibility. I don't know how to build it
with Maven, hence it feels strange.
For the Kotlin stuff and frameworks there - I can say that any UI
project which Google is pushing is a red flag to me. Looking at GWT,
Angular 1.x (I used both) I simply fear that they can step back from
"experiment" after a year or two leaving everything to the community.
I
looked at kootlin and javafx a while ago and there is not much
happening there. I don't know if is because of maturity, javafx issues
or shift to other UI approaches.

As I had no time to work on it I just postponed that to a future.
Yet, I
still dream from time to time about proper "fieldbus.app". ;-)

Cheers,
Łukasz

On 23.06.2022 14:46, Michal Harakal wrote:

Hi,

I would be also interested in, having a strong opinion on technology
stack, but fully open to design and 

Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs with PLC4X

[Lukas Ott]

What about https://cordova.apache.org/ and creating an Electron App?

https://cordova.apache.org/docs/en/11.x/guide/platforms/electron/index.html

So we can deploy easily to all kinds of platforms?

Example for a very successful Frontend application:
https://github.com/jgraph/drawio

Interesting discussion a few years ago:
https://twitter.com/tuxtor/status/1167454864932319232

-> Electron is de facto the standard for Desktop Applications at least at
the moment.

https://medium.com/the-web-tub/electron-on-cordova-29ede5d6d789

https://www.reddit.com/r/javahelp/comments/lrg2ho/web_app_vs_java_fx_vs_electron_js/

My five cents to this conversation ;-)

Luk

Am Do., 23. Juni 2022 um 16:19 Uhr schrieb Sebastian Rühl :

> I would vote doing it as a terminal application with tcell :D
>
> https://github.com/gdamore/tcell
> https://github.com/gcla/gowid
>
> good example for that is termshark
>
> - Sebastian
>
> On 2022/06/23 13:47:29 Christofer Dutz wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Great to see this discussion here :-)
> >
> > Well, I agree that going down the lane of basing something on NetBeans,
> Eclipse, IntelliJ, VSCode makes the tool a bit too big and complicated.
> Integrating something based on Eclipse into our build also would add
> Nightmares to that.
> >
> > I probably would have chosen Java/Kotlin with JavaFX ... but I would
> say, those who actually work on it should choose what they are comfortable
> with.
> >
> > So perhaps we could see who's actually interested, willing and able to
> help on the coding and then these people should discuss how to implement
> it. I'll be available as a "Mentor" if any help is needed in integrating
> that into the build or if PLC4X related help is needed.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Stephen Snow 
> > Sent: Donnerstag, 23. Juni 2022 15:31
> > To: dev@plc4x.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing
> PLCs with PLC4X
> >
> > Truly,
> > To scaffold an application that can be rapidly utilized in Java/Kotlin I
> would strongly recommend Quarkus from https://quarkus.io/. It likes to
> use the GraalVM and readily can build out to native or native in container.
> It can be deployed ootb in development mode with ci happening as you
> develop in netbeans say.
> >
> > Just my 2c worth.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Stephen
> > On Thu, 2022-06-23 at 14:59 +0200, Łukasz Dywicki wrote:
> > > I been wrapping head around this as I had a necessity to watch CANopen
> > > traffic decoded by plc4x. I ended up building fairly basic web page
> > > which displayed most recent frames (so I could stay with local
> > > socketcan transport), yet it was far from useful or portable. Recently
> > > I also did struggle a lot with bloody modbus. My usecases are often
> > > focused on making the commissioning to generate further software
> > > configuration.
> > >
> > > My little research in topic of desktop applications ended up at javafx
> > > which allows to make it small and compile to native binary thanks to
> > > graal. My experiences with RCP platforms are rather bad (I did some
> > > small Eclipse RCP projects), even if I have no issues with OSGi.
> > > Problem
> > > I see in RCP platforms is sparse development documentation, I also
> > > perceive both Eclipse RCP and Netbeans as focused mainly on organizing
> > > navigation while strongly depending on UI frameworks (jface/swt or
> > > swing/awt). Effectively you still need to build tables and so on, but
> > > with much more overhead.
> > > Please do not take above too seriously in context of Netbeans, I don't
> > > know much about it and its flexibility. I don't know how to build it
> > > with Maven, hence it feels strange.
> > > For the Kotlin stuff and frameworks there - I can say that any UI
> > > project which Google is pushing is a red flag to me. Looking at GWT,
> > > Angular 1.x (I used both) I simply fear that they can step back from
> > > "experiment" after a year or two leaving everything to the community.
> > > I
> > > looked at kootlin and javafx a while ago and there is not much
> > > happening there. I don't know if is because of maturity, javafx issues
> > > or shift to other UI approaches.
> > >
> > > As I had no time to work on it I just postponed that to a future.
> > > Yet, I
> > > still dream from time to time about proper "fieldbus.app". ;-)
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Łukasz
> > >
> > > On 23.06.2022 14:46, Michal Harakal wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I would be also interested in, having a strong opinion on technology
> > > > stack, but fully open to design and function.
> > > >
> > > > My suggestion is writing a Desktop App with Kotlin Jetpack Compose
> > > > for Desktop:
> > > >
> > > > Props:
> > > > * modern, state of the art, way to write reactive UI (natural way to
> > > > implement unidirectional data flows architectures)
> > > > * JVM target
> > > > * open source, backed by Google And Jetbrains (they use it in their
> > > > critical products)
> > 

RE: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs with PLC4X

[Sebastian Rühl]

I would vote doing it as a terminal application with tcell :D

https://github.com/gdamore/tcell
https://github.com/gcla/gowid

good example for that is termshark

- Sebastian 

On 2022/06/23 13:47:29 Christofer Dutz wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Great to see this discussion here :-)
> 
> Well, I agree that going down the lane of basing something on NetBeans, 
> Eclipse, IntelliJ, VSCode makes the tool a bit too big and complicated. 
> Integrating something based on Eclipse into our build also would add 
> Nightmares to that.
> 
> I probably would have chosen Java/Kotlin with JavaFX ... but I would say, 
> those who actually work on it should choose what they are comfortable with.
> 
> So perhaps we could see who's actually interested, willing and able to help 
> on the coding and then these people should discuss how to implement it. I'll 
> be available as a "Mentor" if any help is needed in integrating that into the 
> build or if PLC4X related help is needed.
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Stephen Snow  
> Sent: Donnerstag, 23. Juni 2022 15:31
> To: dev@plc4x.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs 
> with PLC4X
> 
> Truly,
> To scaffold an application that can be rapidly utilized in Java/Kotlin I 
> would strongly recommend Quarkus from https://quarkus.io/. It likes to use 
> the GraalVM and readily can build out to native or native in container. It 
> can be deployed ootb in development mode with ci happening as you develop in 
> netbeans say.
> 
> Just my 2c worth.
> 
> Regards,
> Stephen
> On Thu, 2022-06-23 at 14:59 +0200, Łukasz Dywicki wrote:
> > I been wrapping head around this as I had a necessity to watch CANopen 
> > traffic decoded by plc4x. I ended up building fairly basic web page 
> > which displayed most recent frames (so I could stay with local 
> > socketcan transport), yet it was far from useful or portable. Recently 
> > I also did struggle a lot with bloody modbus. My usecases are often 
> > focused on making the commissioning to generate further software 
> > configuration.
> > 
> > My little research in topic of desktop applications ended up at javafx 
> > which allows to make it small and compile to native binary thanks to 
> > graal. My experiences with RCP platforms are rather bad (I did some 
> > small Eclipse RCP projects), even if I have no issues with OSGi.
> > Problem
> > I see in RCP platforms is sparse development documentation, I also 
> > perceive both Eclipse RCP and Netbeans as focused mainly on organizing 
> > navigation while strongly depending on UI frameworks (jface/swt or 
> > swing/awt). Effectively you still need to build tables and so on, but 
> > with much more overhead.
> > Please do not take above too seriously in context of Netbeans, I don't 
> > know much about it and its flexibility. I don't know how to build it 
> > with Maven, hence it feels strange.
> > For the Kotlin stuff and frameworks there - I can say that any UI 
> > project which Google is pushing is a red flag to me. Looking at GWT, 
> > Angular 1.x (I used both) I simply fear that they can step back from 
> > "experiment" after a year or two leaving everything to the community.
> > I
> > looked at kootlin and javafx a while ago and there is not much 
> > happening there. I don't know if is because of maturity, javafx issues 
> > or shift to other UI approaches.
> > 
> > As I had no time to work on it I just postponed that to a future.
> > Yet, I
> > still dream from time to time about proper "fieldbus.app". ;-)
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Łukasz
> > 
> > On 23.06.2022 14:46, Michal Harakal wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > I would be also interested in, having a strong opinion on technology 
> > > stack, but fully open to design and function.
> > > 
> > > My suggestion is writing a Desktop App with Kotlin Jetpack Compose 
> > > for Desktop:
> > > 
> > > Props:
> > > * modern, state of the art, way to write reactive UI (natural way to 
> > > implement unidirectional data flows architectures)
> > > * JVM target
> > > * open source, backed by Google And Jetbrains (they use it in their 
> > > critical products)
> > > * Kotlin provides 1A class interoperability support with Java and 
> > > JVM
> > > * since Jetpack Compose is originally created and used by Android, 
> > > you can have an Android App out of the box, with little effort
> > > * integration with Jetbrains Intellij
> > > * even if you don't know Jetpack Compose Framewrok, you can 
> > > contribute too with your Java/Kotlin skills imedialtely on 
> > > domain/bussines etc. parts of code ..
> > > * easy to learn
> > > * with multiplatform support are native apps with their native UI 
> > > frameworks (e.g. iOS)
> > > 
> > > Cons:
> > > * Still in Alpha
> > > * backed by Google and Jetbrains
> > > * Kotlin is probably not the number one programming language here
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Best regards,
> > > Michal
> > > > Christofer Dutz  hat am 23.06.2022
> > > > 10:55 geschrieben:
> > > > 

RE: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs with PLC4X

[Christofer Dutz]

Hi all,

Great to see this discussion here :-)

Well, I agree that going down the lane of basing something on NetBeans, 
Eclipse, IntelliJ, VSCode makes the tool a bit too big and complicated. 
Integrating something based on Eclipse into our build also would add Nightmares 
to that.

I probably would have chosen Java/Kotlin with JavaFX ... but I would say, those 
who actually work on it should choose what they are comfortable with.

So perhaps we could see who's actually interested, willing and able to help on 
the coding and then these people should discuss how to implement it. I'll be 
available as a "Mentor" if any help is needed in integrating that into the 
build or if PLC4X related help is needed.

Chris


-Original Message-
From: Stephen Snow  
Sent: Donnerstag, 23. Juni 2022 15:31
To: dev@plc4x.apache.org
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs with 
PLC4X

Truly,
To scaffold an application that can be rapidly utilized in Java/Kotlin I would 
strongly recommend Quarkus from https://quarkus.io/. It likes to use the 
GraalVM and readily can build out to native or native in container. It can be 
deployed ootb in development mode with ci happening as you develop in netbeans 
say.

Just my 2c worth.

Regards,
Stephen
On Thu, 2022-06-23 at 14:59 +0200, Łukasz Dywicki wrote:
> I been wrapping head around this as I had a necessity to watch CANopen 
> traffic decoded by plc4x. I ended up building fairly basic web page 
> which displayed most recent frames (so I could stay with local 
> socketcan transport), yet it was far from useful or portable. Recently 
> I also did struggle a lot with bloody modbus. My usecases are often 
> focused on making the commissioning to generate further software 
> configuration.
> 
> My little research in topic of desktop applications ended up at javafx 
> which allows to make it small and compile to native binary thanks to 
> graal. My experiences with RCP platforms are rather bad (I did some 
> small Eclipse RCP projects), even if I have no issues with OSGi.
> Problem
> I see in RCP platforms is sparse development documentation, I also 
> perceive both Eclipse RCP and Netbeans as focused mainly on organizing 
> navigation while strongly depending on UI frameworks (jface/swt or 
> swing/awt). Effectively you still need to build tables and so on, but 
> with much more overhead.
> Please do not take above too seriously in context of Netbeans, I don't 
> know much about it and its flexibility. I don't know how to build it 
> with Maven, hence it feels strange.
> For the Kotlin stuff and frameworks there - I can say that any UI 
> project which Google is pushing is a red flag to me. Looking at GWT, 
> Angular 1.x (I used both) I simply fear that they can step back from 
> "experiment" after a year or two leaving everything to the community.
> I
> looked at kootlin and javafx a while ago and there is not much 
> happening there. I don't know if is because of maturity, javafx issues 
> or shift to other UI approaches.
> 
> As I had no time to work on it I just postponed that to a future.
> Yet, I
> still dream from time to time about proper "fieldbus.app". ;-)
> 
> Cheers,
> Łukasz
> 
> On 23.06.2022 14:46, Michal Harakal wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I would be also interested in, having a strong opinion on technology 
> > stack, but fully open to design and function.
> > 
> > My suggestion is writing a Desktop App with Kotlin Jetpack Compose 
> > for Desktop:
> > 
> > Props:
> > * modern, state of the art, way to write reactive UI (natural way to 
> > implement unidirectional data flows architectures)
> > * JVM target
> > * open source, backed by Google And Jetbrains (they use it in their 
> > critical products)
> > * Kotlin provides 1A class interoperability support with Java and 
> > JVM
> > * since Jetpack Compose is originally created and used by Android, 
> > you can have an Android App out of the box, with little effort
> > * integration with Jetbrains Intellij
> > * even if you don't know Jetpack Compose Framewrok, you can 
> > contribute too with your Java/Kotlin skills imedialtely on 
> > domain/bussines etc. parts of code ..
> > * easy to learn
> > * with multiplatform support are native apps with their native UI 
> > frameworks (e.g. iOS)
> > 
> > Cons:
> > * Still in Alpha
> > * backed by Google and Jetbrains
> > * Kotlin is probably not the number one programming language here
> > 
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > Michal
> > > Christofer Dutz  hat am 23.06.2022
> > > 10:55 geschrieben:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Hi all,
> > > 
> > > Again, I was in need of a simple application to simply monitor the 
> > > values on a Modbus device (I’m currently configuring my Wago
> > > PFC200 Modbus Slave interface).
> > > I could use stuff like the “Modbus Poll” GUI tool, but my trial 
> > > expired and I’m not willing to pay 130€ for this limited 
> > > functionality.
> > > 
> > > So, I thought, it would be an awesome addition to PLC4X if we had 
> > > 

Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs with PLC4X

[Stephen Snow]

Truly,
To scaffold an application that can be rapidly utilized in Java/Kotlin
I would strongly recommend Quarkus from https://quarkus.io/. It likes
to use the GraalVM and readily can build out to native or native in
container. It can be deployed ootb in development mode with ci
happening as you develop in netbeans say.

Just my 2c worth.

Regards,
Stephen
On Thu, 2022-06-23 at 14:59 +0200, Łukasz Dywicki wrote:
> I been wrapping head around this as I had a necessity to watch
> CANopen 
> traffic decoded by plc4x. I ended up building fairly basic web page 
> which displayed most recent frames (so I could stay with local
> socketcan 
> transport), yet it was far from useful or portable. Recently I also
> did 
> struggle a lot with bloody modbus. My usecases are often focused on 
> making the commissioning to generate further software configuration.
> 
> My little research in topic of desktop applications ended up at
> javafx 
> which allows to make it small and compile to native binary thanks to 
> graal. My experiences with RCP platforms are rather bad (I did some 
> small Eclipse RCP projects), even if I have no issues with OSGi.
> Problem 
> I see in RCP platforms is sparse development documentation, I also 
> perceive both Eclipse RCP and Netbeans as focused mainly on
> organizing 
> navigation while strongly depending on UI frameworks (jface/swt or 
> swing/awt). Effectively you still need to build tables and so on, but
> with much more overhead.
> Please do not take above too seriously in context of Netbeans, I
> don't 
> know much about it and its flexibility. I don't know how to build it 
> with Maven, hence it feels strange.
> For the Kotlin stuff and frameworks there - I can say that any UI 
> project which Google is pushing is a red flag to me. Looking at GWT, 
> Angular 1.x (I used both) I simply fear that they can step back from 
> "experiment" after a year or two leaving everything to the community.
> I 
> looked at kootlin and javafx a while ago and there is not much
> happening 
> there. I don't know if is because of maturity, javafx issues or shift
> to 
> other UI approaches.
> 
> As I had no time to work on it I just postponed that to a future.
> Yet, I 
> still dream from time to time about proper "fieldbus.app". ;-)
> 
> Cheers,
> Łukasz
> 
> On 23.06.2022 14:46, Michal Harakal wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I would be also interested in, having a strong opinion on
> > technology stack, but fully open to design and function.
> > 
> > My suggestion is writing a Desktop App with Kotlin Jetpack Compose
> > for Desktop:
> > 
> > Props:
> > * modern, state of the art, way to write reactive UI (natural way
> > to implement unidirectional data flows architectures)
> > * JVM target
> > * open source, backed by Google And Jetbrains (they use it in their
> > critical products)
> > * Kotlin provides 1A class interoperability support with Java and
> > JVM
> > * since Jetpack Compose is originally created and used by Android,
> > you can have an Android App out of the box, with little effort
> > * integration with Jetbrains Intellij
> > * even if you don't know Jetpack Compose Framewrok, you can
> > contribute too with your Java/Kotlin skills imedialtely on
> > domain/bussines etc. parts of code ..
> > * easy to learn
> > * with multiplatform support are native apps with their native UI
> > frameworks (e.g. iOS)
> > 
> > Cons:
> > * Still in Alpha
> > * backed by Google and Jetbrains
> > * Kotlin is probably not the number one programming language here
> > 
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > Michal
> > > Christofer Dutz  hat am 23.06.2022
> > > 10:55 geschrieben:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Hi all,
> > > 
> > > Again, I was in need of a simple application to simply monitor
> > > the values on a Modbus device (I’m currently configuring my Wago
> > > PFC200 Modbus Slave interface).
> > > I could use stuff like the “Modbus Poll” GUI tool, but my trial
> > > expired and I’m not willing to pay 130€ for this limited
> > > functionality.
> > > 
> > > So, I thought, it would be an awesome addition to PLC4X if we had
> > > some sort of GUI application, that uses the Discover
> > > functionality to find possible PLCs and list them in a tree view.
> > > If the use double clicks on one of these connections, it connects
> > > and possibly executes the Browse functionality and lists up what
> > > it finds.
> > > 
> > > I know that I could simply start working on something like that,
> > > but I thought this would also be a great thing for someone else
> > > to implement as it doesn’t require too deep knowledge of PLC4X
> > > internals.
> > > 
> > > And I suck at building beautiful UIs :-)
> > > 
> > > Anyone interested?
> > > 
> > > Chris

Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs with PLC4X

[Xiangdong Huang]

+1 for a GUI tool.

IMO, the tool should be lightweight.

Netbeans is too heavy... （it comes to my experience when I used
Netbeans several years ago..).
And, using Netbeans, Eclipse, IDEAJ framework may reduce our coding workload,
but will raise the skill bar because contributors has to know the
framework well.

JavaFx is good for me, a Java skill-stack programmer :D.
Web based GUI is also a good choice (consider Grafana in time series area).

Best,
---
Xiangdong Huang
School of Software, Tsinghua University


Łukasz Dywicki  于2022年6月23日周四 20:59写道：
>
> I been wrapping head around this as I had a necessity to watch CANopen
> traffic decoded by plc4x. I ended up building fairly basic web page
> which displayed most recent frames (so I could stay with local socketcan
> transport), yet it was far from useful or portable. Recently I also did
> struggle a lot with bloody modbus. My usecases are often focused on
> making the commissioning to generate further software configuration.
>
> My little research in topic of desktop applications ended up at javafx
> which allows to make it small and compile to native binary thanks to
> graal. My experiences with RCP platforms are rather bad (I did some
> small Eclipse RCP projects), even if I have no issues with OSGi. Problem
> I see in RCP platforms is sparse development documentation, I also
> perceive both Eclipse RCP and Netbeans as focused mainly on organizing
> navigation while strongly depending on UI frameworks (jface/swt or
> swing/awt). Effectively you still need to build tables and so on, but
> with much more overhead.
> Please do not take above too seriously in context of Netbeans, I don't
> know much about it and its flexibility. I don't know how to build it
> with Maven, hence it feels strange.
> For the Kotlin stuff and frameworks there - I can say that any UI
> project which Google is pushing is a red flag to me. Looking at GWT,
> Angular 1.x (I used both) I simply fear that they can step back from
> "experiment" after a year or two leaving everything to the community. I
> looked at kootlin and javafx a while ago and there is not much happening
> there. I don't know if is because of maturity, javafx issues or shift to
> other UI approaches.
>
> As I had no time to work on it I just postponed that to a future. Yet, I
> still dream from time to time about proper "fieldbus.app". ;-)
>
> Cheers,
> Łukasz
>
> On 23.06.2022 14:46, Michal Harakal wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I would be also interested in, having a strong opinion on technology stack, 
> > but fully open to design and function.
> >
> > My suggestion is writing a Desktop App with Kotlin Jetpack Compose for 
> > Desktop:
> >
> > Props:
> > * modern, state of the art, way to write reactive UI (natural way to 
> > implement unidirectional data flows architectures)
> > * JVM target
> > * open source, backed by Google And Jetbrains (they use it in their 
> > critical products)
> > * Kotlin provides 1A class interoperability support with Java and JVM
> > * since Jetpack Compose is originally created and used by Android, you can 
> > have an Android App out of the box, with little effort
> > * integration with Jetbrains Intellij
> > * even if you don't know Jetpack Compose Framewrok, you can contribute too 
> > with your Java/Kotlin skills imedialtely on domain/bussines etc. parts of 
> > code ..
> > * easy to learn
> > * with multiplatform support are native apps with their native UI 
> > frameworks (e.g. iOS)
> >
> > Cons:
> > * Still in Alpha
> > * backed by Google and Jetbrains
> > * Kotlin is probably not the number one programming language here
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Michal
> >> Christofer Dutz  hat am 23.06.2022 10:55 
> >> geschrieben:
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> Again, I was in need of a simple application to simply monitor the values 
> >> on a Modbus device (I’m currently configuring my Wago PFC200 Modbus Slave 
> >> interface).
> >> I could use stuff like the “Modbus Poll” GUI tool, but my trial expired 
> >> and I’m not willing to pay 130€ for this limited functionality.
> >>
> >> So, I thought, it would be an awesome addition to PLC4X if we had some 
> >> sort of GUI application, that uses the Discover functionality to find 
> >> possible PLCs and list them in a tree view.
> >> If the use double clicks on one of these connections, it connects and 
> >> possibly executes the Browse functionality and lists up what it finds.
> >>
> >> I know that I could simply start working on something like that, but I 
> >> thought this would also be a great thing for someone else to implement as 
> >> it doesn’t require too deep knowledge of PLC4X internals.
> >>
> >> And I suck at building beautiful UIs :-)
> >>
> >> Anyone interested?
> >>
> >> Chris

Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs with PLC4X

[Łukasz Dywicki]

I been wrapping head around this as I had a necessity to watch CANopen 
traffic decoded by plc4x. I ended up building fairly basic web page 
which displayed most recent frames (so I could stay with local socketcan 
transport), yet it was far from useful or portable. Recently I also did 
struggle a lot with bloody modbus. My usecases are often focused on 
making the commissioning to generate further software configuration.


My little research in topic of desktop applications ended up at javafx 
which allows to make it small and compile to native binary thanks to 
graal. My experiences with RCP platforms are rather bad (I did some 
small Eclipse RCP projects), even if I have no issues with OSGi. Problem 
I see in RCP platforms is sparse development documentation, I also 
perceive both Eclipse RCP and Netbeans as focused mainly on organizing 
navigation while strongly depending on UI frameworks (jface/swt or 
swing/awt). Effectively you still need to build tables and so on, but 
with much more overhead.
Please do not take above too seriously in context of Netbeans, I don't 
know much about it and its flexibility. I don't know how to build it 
with Maven, hence it feels strange.
For the Kotlin stuff and frameworks there - I can say that any UI 
project which Google is pushing is a red flag to me. Looking at GWT, 
Angular 1.x (I used both) I simply fear that they can step back from 
"experiment" after a year or two leaving everything to the community. I 
looked at kootlin and javafx a while ago and there is not much happening 
there. I don't know if is because of maturity, javafx issues or shift to 
other UI approaches.


As I had no time to work on it I just postponed that to a future. Yet, I 
still dream from time to time about proper "fieldbus.app". ;-)


Cheers,
Łukasz

On 23.06.2022 14:46, Michal Harakal wrote:

Hi,

I would be also interested in, having a strong opinion on technology stack, but 
fully open to design and function.

My suggestion is writing a Desktop App with Kotlin Jetpack Compose for Desktop:

Props:
* modern, state of the art, way to write reactive UI (natural way to implement 
unidirectional data flows architectures)
* JVM target
* open source, backed by Google And Jetbrains (they use it in their critical 
products)
* Kotlin provides 1A class interoperability support with Java and JVM
* since Jetpack Compose is originally created and used by Android, you can have 
an Android App out of the box, with little effort
* integration with Jetbrains Intellij
* even if you don't know Jetpack Compose Framewrok, you can contribute too with 
your Java/Kotlin skills imedialtely on domain/bussines etc. parts of code ..
* easy to learn
* with multiplatform support are native apps with their native UI frameworks 
(e.g. iOS)

Cons:
* Still in Alpha
* backed by Google and Jetbrains
* Kotlin is probably not the number one programming language here


Best regards,
Michal

Christofer Dutz  hat am 23.06.2022 10:55 geschrieben:


Hi all,

Again, I was in need of a simple application to simply monitor the values on a 
Modbus device (I’m currently configuring my Wago PFC200 Modbus Slave interface).
I could use stuff like the “Modbus Poll” GUI tool, but my trial expired and I’m 
not willing to pay 130€ for this limited functionality.

So, I thought, it would be an awesome addition to PLC4X if we had some sort of 
GUI application, that uses the Discover functionality to find possible PLCs and 
list them in a tree view.
If the use double clicks on one of these connections, it connects and possibly 
executes the Browse functionality and lists up what it finds.

I know that I could simply start working on something like that, but I thought 
this would also be a great thing for someone else to implement as it doesn’t 
require too deep knowledge of PLC4X internals.

And I suck at building beautiful UIs :-)

Anyone interested?

Chris

Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs with PLC4X

[Michal Harakal]

Hi, 

I would be also interested in, having a strong opinion on technology stack, but 
fully open to design and function.

My suggestion is writing a Desktop App with Kotlin Jetpack Compose for Desktop: 

Props:
* modern, state of the art, way to write reactive UI (natural way to implement 
unidirectional data flows architectures) 
* JVM target 
* open source, backed by Google And Jetbrains (they use it in their critical 
products) 
* Kotlin provides 1A class interoperability support with Java and JVM 
* since Jetpack Compose is originally created and used by Android, you can have 
an Android App out of the box, with little effort 
* integration with Jetbrains Intellij 
* even if you don't know Jetpack Compose Framewrok, you can contribute too with 
your Java/Kotlin skills imedialtely on domain/bussines etc. parts of code .. 
* easy to learn 
* with multiplatform support are native apps with their native UI frameworks 
(e.g. iOS) 

Cons: 
* Still in Alpha
* backed by Google and Jetbrains 
* Kotlin is probably not the number one programming language here 


Best regards, 
Michal
> Christofer Dutz  hat am 23.06.2022 10:55 
> geschrieben:
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Again, I was in need of a simple application to simply monitor the values on 
> a Modbus device (I’m currently configuring my Wago PFC200 Modbus Slave 
> interface).
> I could use stuff like the “Modbus Poll” GUI tool, but my trial expired and 
> I’m not willing to pay 130€ for this limited functionality.
> 
> So, I thought, it would be an awesome addition to PLC4X if we had some sort 
> of GUI application, that uses the Discover functionality to find possible 
> PLCs and list them in a tree view.
> If the use double clicks on one of these connections, it connects and 
> possibly executes the Browse functionality and lists up what it finds.
> 
> I know that I could simply start working on something like that, but I 
> thought this would also be a great thing for someone else to implement as it 
> doesn’t require too deep knowledge of PLC4X internals.
> 
> And I suck at building beautiful UIs :-)
> 
> Anyone interested?
> 
> Chris

RE: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs with PLC4X

[Christofer Dutz]

Hi to all of you,

I agree that if we use NetBeans it’s definitiely “eating our own (Apache) 
dogfood” … and yes it’s quite well established.
Probably you can create Standalone Applications with Netbeans similar to how 
you can do that with Eclipse.
However, do I imagine, that this would probably be a bit of overkill for this 
usecase.

Right now I was thinking of a single runnable fat-jar that you just double 
click and a window opens, that per default simply triggers Discover on all 
protocols and network devices on the current system and simply lists out the 
results.

And @nicolo … I was more thinking about something totally generic … as PLC4X is 
totally generic … that you sort of have a list of resources, if the connection 
supports “Browse” … if you select a value you can read and wrtite it. This is 
where you could probably go nuts with ideas … like auto-refresh, read into a 
table so you can see the values over time, draw a graph, …

If the Connection doesn’t support Browse, we could simply have a text-field for 
entering PLC4X Field Queries and execute these.

But that was just my idea … if anyone wants to do it differently … go ahead … I 
mean … he ho scratches, get’s to decide how and where ;-)

Chris

From: Nicolò Toscani 
Sent: Donnerstag, 23. Juni 2022 14:21
To: dev@plc4x.apache.org
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs with 
PLC4X

Hi,

This is my application developed to analyze the Modbus protocol. Maybe it can 
be useful as a starting point for development.

https://github.com/NicoloToscani/ModbusClient

[cid:ii_l4qzt6c10]

Nicolò Toscani


Il giorno gio 23 giu 2022 alle ore 10:55 Christofer Dutz 
mailto:christofer.d...@c-ware.de>> ha scritto:
Hi all,

Again, I was in need of a simple application to simply monitor the values on a 
Modbus device (I’m currently configuring my Wago PFC200 Modbus Slave interface).
I could use stuff like the “Modbus Poll” GUI tool, but my trial expired and I’m 
not willing to pay 130€ for this limited functionality.

So, I thought, it would be an awesome addition to PLC4X if we had some sort of 
GUI application, that uses the Discover functionality to find possible PLCs and 
list them in a tree view.
If the use double clicks on one of these connections, it connects and possibly 
executes the Browse functionality and lists up what it finds.

I know that I could simply start working on something like that, but I thought 
this would also be a great thing for someone else to implement as it doesn’t 
require too deep knowledge of PLC4X internals.

And I suck at building beautiful UIs :-)

Anyone interested?

Chris

Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs with PLC4X

[Nicolò Toscani]

Hi,

This is my application developed to analyze the Modbus protocol. Maybe it
can be useful as a starting point for development.

https://github.com/NicoloToscani/ModbusClient

[image: 30ec4842-0443-11e7-829d-4f4db6aedab2.png]

Nicolò Toscani


Il giorno gio 23 giu 2022 alle ore 10:55 Christofer Dutz <
christofer.d...@c-ware.de> ha scritto:

> Hi all,
>
> Again, I was in need of a simple application to simply monitor the values
> on a Modbus device (I’m currently configuring my Wago PFC200 Modbus Slave
> interface).
> I could use stuff like the “Modbus Poll” GUI tool, but my trial expired
> and I’m not willing to pay 130€ for this limited functionality.
>
> So, I thought, it would be an awesome addition to PLC4X if we had some
> sort of GUI application, that uses the Discover functionality to find
> possible PLCs and list them in a tree view.
> If the use double clicks on one of these connections, it connects and
> possibly executes the Browse functionality and lists up what it finds.
>
> I know that I could simply start working on something like that, but I
> thought this would also be a great thing for someone else to implement as
> it doesn’t require too deep knowledge of PLC4X internals.
>
> And I suck at building beautiful UIs :-)
>
> Anyone interested?
>
> Chris
>
>

Re: [PROPOSAL] Implement a Java GUI application for browsing PLCs with PLC4X

[Cesar Garcia]

Hello,

+1,

I agree with this proposal, eventually I have been working with NetBeans
modules to implement this IDE.

Why NetBeans?

Pro

1. You already implement your modularity scheme for the grouping of the
libraries.
2. Well-known standard interface.
3. Tools for content integration (persistence, dynamization and help
management).
4. Data visualization tools already available.
5. Graphics module already available.
6. And of course It is from the Apache Foundation family (we eat our own
snack).

Against

1. It has its learning curve. Especially the "Lookup" concept.
2. It is not in vogue. For example against JavaFX.
3. It is bulky.

In the end, the most important thing is that we do not invent the wheel,
but rather that we use it.

Regarding the integration of the PLC4X drivers, and it is a point that I
don't know if it has been worked on, it is the representation of the
metadata, but that is another topic.

My grain of sand.

El jue, 23 jun 2022 a las 4:55, Christofer Dutz ()
escribió:

> Hi all,
>
> Again, I was in need of a simple application to simply monitor the values
> on a Modbus device (I’m currently configuring my Wago PFC200 Modbus Slave
> interface).
> I could use stuff like the “Modbus Poll” GUI tool, but my trial expired
> and I’m not willing to pay 130€ for this limited functionality.
>
> So, I thought, it would be an awesome addition to PLC4X if we had some
> sort of GUI application, that uses the Discover functionality to find
> possible PLCs and list them in a tree view.
> If the use double clicks on one of these connections, it connects and
> possibly executes the Browse functionality and lists up what it finds.
>
> I know that I could simply start working on something like that, but I
> thought this would also be a great thing for someone else to implement as
> it doesn’t require too deep knowledge of PLC4X internals.
>
> And I suck at building beautiful UIs :-)
>
> Anyone interested?
>
> Chris
>
>

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