Re: [dev-servo] Weekly status updates

[Dirkjan Ochtman]

On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 3:13 AM, Lars Bergstrom  wrote:
>> As a spare time outside contributor, it has become pretty much
>> impossible for me to stay informed of what's happening in Servo land,
>> since the meetings (and thus the meeting notes) have been cancelled;
>> while few things are going over the mailing list; and the traffic on IRC
>> is impossible to keep up with for anyone but full-time contributors.
>
> Thanks for the feedback! This is something I care a lot about. Are you
> saying that you'd like to see something between
> https://github.com/servo/servo/wiki/Roadmap, which gives what people
> are working on for the rest of the quarter, and the "next week"
> section of the status reporting?

That was certainly my impression of Olaf's email, and something I
would vehemently concur with (as a casual contributor). It would be
great if there was a way to keep up with what's going on at a
semi-high level, that doesn't require as significant an investment as
reading all the GitHub issues (traffic) or trying to keep up with IRC.
TWiS is a good start, but is pretty limited, and really does only
focus on the past.

Cheers,

Dirkjan
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Re: [dev-servo] Weekly status updates

[Lars Bergstrom]

On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 12:36 PM, Olaf Buddenhagen
 wrote:
> As a spare time outside contributor, it has become pretty much
> impossible for me to stay informed of what's happening in Servo land,
> since the meetings (and thus the meeting notes) have been cancelled;
> while few things are going over the mailing list; and the traffic on IRC
> is impossible to keep up with for anyone but full-time contributors.
>
> I have been reading the status updates for a while, but ultimately gave
> up on it, because many developers do not update them (regularily) at
> all; while some others provide a detailed changelog rather than a
> higher-level overview, making it very boring to read; and also, these
> updates mostly just tell what happened in the past, not what's brewing
> right now...
>
> Summing up, some way to stay in touch with ongoing/upcoming developments
> would be great -- but I'm not sure the status updates in their present
> form are very helpful in this regard.
>
> TWiS is somewhat useful with its nice high-level changelog -- but again,
> nothing about stuff in the works...

Thanks for the feedback! This is something I care a lot about. Are you
saying that you'd like to see something between
https://github.com/servo/servo/wiki/Roadmap, which gives what people
are working on for the rest of the quarter, and the "next week"
section of the status reporting?

Or are you saying that part of the problem is that we're not really
capturing the "next week" details well enough so that, e.g., you know
that Vlad's going to be looking into ipc-channel Windows support and
might need your feedback?
- Lars

BTW, I am full-time and I can't keep up with the IRC channel either.
And I (we) shouldn't! If IRC becomes a substitute for GitHub issues
and the mailing list, then it will crowd out both volunteers and
contributors who are not in the "right" timezone. I try to make sure
that people don't make *decisions* on IRC, as that's a pretty nasty
community anti-pattern, but I'm sure I've done it myself and should
definitely be called out when I do that.
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Re: [dev-servo] Weekly status updates

[Ms2ger]

On 22/09/16 18:07, Lars Bergstrom wrote:
> I've noticed that while some people are still submitting their weekly
> status updates on http://statusupdates.dev.mozaws.net/ (thank you!),
> it's both not everybody and we're missing a bunch of the more active
> community members who might like to highlight their work.
> 
> I'd love to either get that moving again or move to something that
> people like more (e.g., edunham suggested http://standu.ps/ ).

Fwiw, I use standu.ps during the week, and then collect and format those
updates in a way that's more useful for statusupdates with a small
script [1], so I don't have to spend my Monday morning trying to
remember what I did the previous week.

However, standu.ps only covers 'Done', not 'Next' and 'Coordination'.

Unfortunately, statusupdates will stop working with the shutdown of
Persona on November 30th [2], unless we do something about it.

HTH
Ms2ger

[1] https://hg.mozilla.org/users/Ms2ger_gmail.com/status/
[2] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1273041
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Re: [dev-servo] Weekly status updates

[Josh Matthews]

As one of the regular users of the existing service, I agree with Nick. 
I have appreciated the concise but informative updates from other Servo 
developers, especially during periods when I've had my attention split 
between Servo and Gecko. I also keep a text file where I add bullet 
points for discrete tasks just before moving on to something else, and 
it's not been an onerous process for me.


Cheers,
Josh
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Re: [dev-servo] Weekly status updates

[Nicholas Nethercote]

I'm not a Servo person, but...

I think hand-written updates are *much* better than auto-generated
updates, because you can put interesting context and background into
hand-written updates. (In my long experience at Mozilla I enjoy
reading hand-written updates of various kinds, but auto-generated ones
I invariable ignore.) They're a great way to communicate what you've
been doing to other people. They're also a good way to be aware of
your own progress and self-motivate, e.g. "that was a really
productive week" or "that was a crappy week, I'll try to do better
next week".

I also don't think a weekly update is onerous. I have a calendar
reminder which means I don't forget it. I have a text file in which I
write down things when I land them. I have a Bugzilla search that
finds patches I've landed in the past 7 days which I use to check if
I've forgotten to add anything to the text file. So when I go to
submit my update it's already 90% complete. The whole thing accounts
for maybe 10 minutes of effort a week. Maybe I'm a paragon of
organization and efficiency, but it really doesn't seem that hard. For
employees in particular, "keep your colleagues informed" is a basic
responsibility and this is an easy and effective way to do it.

As for moving to a different system -- are there any features that
Status Updates is missing? It's not a complicated thing. Does it need
more than a textbox and a "send" button?

Nick

On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 2:07 AM, Lars Bergstrom  wrote:
> I've noticed that while some people are still submitting their weekly
> status updates on http://statusupdates.dev.mozaws.net/ (thank you!),
> it's both not everybody and we're missing a bunch of the more active
> community members who might like to highlight their work.
>
> I'd love to either get that moving again or move to something that
> people like more (e.g., edunham suggested http://standu.ps/ ).
>
> I find this really useful on the team so that we all know what each
> other are working on, especially since we cancelled the weekly
> meeting. It's also included externally in "This Week in Servo" so
> others get a sense for what's in progress but not yet landing.
> Finally, internally it's helpful for people funding the project to
> have a general sense for what everybody's doing without having to ask
> myself or Jack :-)
>
> Opinions? I'm also open to pushback here that status reporting is too
> much work and larsberg should just be scraping scraping harder on
> GitHub.
>
> Thanks,
> - Lars
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Re: [dev-servo] Weekly status updates

[Michael Howell]

I just found out that it's open to the community to submit to, not just
Mozilla employees. Now that I realized I could actually sign in using
Mozillians, I'll actually start submitting there. :-)

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 9:34 AM Manish Goregaokar 
wrote:

> I've always liked the idea of standu.ps with the IRC bot reporting.
>
> Large tasks may become tricky with standups. AIUI you ping the
> standups bot when you finish a task, but for long running tasks (large
> PRs, etc) you can't do this so easily. With statusupdates I just add
> an entry "worked more on X", with standups this might become
> cluttered. But this is minor, and probably could be fixed by being
> more descriptive of the subtasks.
>
> Thanks,
> -Manish Goregaokar
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 9:37 PM, Lars Bergstrom 
> wrote:
> > I've noticed that while some people are still submitting their weekly
> > status updates on http://statusupdates.dev.mozaws.net/ (thank you!),
> > it's both not everybody and we're missing a bunch of the more active
> > community members who might like to highlight their work.
> >
> > I'd love to either get that moving again or move to something that
> > people like more (e.g., edunham suggested http://standu.ps/ ).
> >
> > I find this really useful on the team so that we all know what each
> > other are working on, especially since we cancelled the weekly
> > meeting. It's also included externally in "This Week in Servo" so
> > others get a sense for what's in progress but not yet landing.
> > Finally, internally it's helpful for people funding the project to
> > have a general sense for what everybody's doing without having to ask
> > myself or Jack :-)
> >
> > Opinions? I'm also open to pushback here that status reporting is too
> > much work and larsberg should just be scraping scraping harder on
> > GitHub.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > - Lars
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Re: [dev-servo] Weekly status updates

[Manish Goregaokar]

I've always liked the idea of standu.ps with the IRC bot reporting.

Large tasks may become tricky with standups. AIUI you ping the
standups bot when you finish a task, but for long running tasks (large
PRs, etc) you can't do this so easily. With statusupdates I just add
an entry "worked more on X", with standups this might become
cluttered. But this is minor, and probably could be fixed by being
more descriptive of the subtasks.

Thanks,
-Manish Goregaokar


On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 9:37 PM, Lars Bergstrom  wrote:
> I've noticed that while some people are still submitting their weekly
> status updates on http://statusupdates.dev.mozaws.net/ (thank you!),
> it's both not everybody and we're missing a bunch of the more active
> community members who might like to highlight their work.
>
> I'd love to either get that moving again or move to something that
> people like more (e.g., edunham suggested http://standu.ps/ ).
>
> I find this really useful on the team so that we all know what each
> other are working on, especially since we cancelled the weekly
> meeting. It's also included externally in "This Week in Servo" so
> others get a sense for what's in progress but not yet landing.
> Finally, internally it's helpful for people funding the project to
> have a general sense for what everybody's doing without having to ask
> myself or Jack :-)
>
> Opinions? I'm also open to pushback here that status reporting is too
> much work and larsberg should just be scraping scraping harder on
> GitHub.
>
> Thanks,
> - Lars
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