Re: I want to turn on a part of the kernel to make SELinux checking more stringent.
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 04:32:54PM +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote: Do we really need a service for this? Can't this be done instead via a tmpfiles snippet that uses f and the extra argument at the end? I mean I am not convinced it's worth involving shell here. Also the canonical way to write things to /proc or /sys is {/etc,/usr/lib/}/sysctl.d/ and {/etc,/usr/lib/}/tmpfiles.d/ if it's simple and static. And I don't see why we shouldn't do this differently in this case than in all others... Using tmpfiles.d for this is not very obvious. Who would expect that a service intended to handle temporary files is used for configuration? For example the man page says: | tmpfiles.d — Configuration for creation, deletion and cleaning of | volatile and temporary files Regards Till -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Review swap or Sponser request: the_silver_searcher
Hi, List Can anyone swap review or take it as sponsor? [1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1008063 Regards, Kenjiro Nakayama knaka...@redhat.com Red Hat K.K. Ebisu Neonato 8F, 1-18 Ebisu 4-chome, Shibuya-ku, Tokyo, Japan 150-0013 -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Fedora.next in 2014 -- Big Picture and Themes
On 1/25/14, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote: On Sat, 2014-01-25 at 12:04 +0100, Alec Leamas wrote: After hacking a simple tool which provides a GUI for a repository file it's possible to create repository packages complete with desktop and appdata file. I have some 5-10 such repository packages under way, my plan is to push them into rpmfusion. http://rpmfusion.org/Contributors#Read_the_packaging_guidelines I know this is controversial. I've also heard some rumours about Fedora using something they call Packaging Guidelines. Has anyone some information on this topic? ;) Can we just for the sake of discussion leave this formal side of it, for now? So I found this point interesting in thinking about these issues this morning. There was a post of Hughesie's (I think) in another thread which was also illuminating: it suggested the design of Software is to be a generic 'software' installer - to provide as much 'software' from as many sources as possible, under the 'it's all just software' theory, I guess. I think the assumption that this is obviously the right design is interesting, because I strongly disagree - not just for legal or policy reasons, but because that's most definitely *not* what I want. I don't want a 'greedy' software installer that just finds every piece of crap on the internet and offers it to me. I appreciate the curation that I don't know if this is Hughesie's vision. Anyway, it's certainly not mine. Adding whatever software available out there to the repos is a Bad Idea. Agreed That said,, IMHO we actually need to be better on delivering what people need. Some of this is not in Fedora's repos. This is already acknowledged here and there. E. g., rpmfusion has list of repositories which are known to work with rpmfusion [1]. For fedora, we have e. g. jpackage, which is stated s compatible in the Java GL. I'm trying to find some middle ground here. Instead of just enabling repos, perhaps when installing something else, I'm trying a process where each and every repository added is packaged separately. Hence, here is also separate review for each repository. And even if installed, it's not enabled until l explicitly configured by user.. I see all the problems when using things like pip, gem etc. However, this is not anything like this. It's about letting users install carefully selected repositories which are known to work with Fedora. Doing it this way, we also create a difference to other repositories which are not endorsed. Also this is something we need badly IMHO. It's also task which naturally belongs to rpmfusion, mostly the non-free section. --alec. [1] http://rpmfusion.org/FedoraThirdPartyRepos -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Heads up; F22 will require applications to ship appdata to be listed in software center
On 01/23/2014 02:04 PM, Richard Hughes wrote: On 23 January 2014 12:37, David Howells dhowe...@redhat.com wrote: What constitutes an 'application' in this sense? Does 'gcc' count for instance? How about 'find'? No. In the AppStream and AppData definitions, a program is an application if it has a .desktop file that is visible in the menu. i.e. not NoDisplay=true and that has at least one valid category. How is the user then supposed to find gcc, find, or similar programs/rpm-packages if these does not show up in 'software center'? Or am I missing something obvious here? How does 'application' correlates to a rpm-package? Lars -- Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se http://www.sm6rpz.se/ -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Heads up; F22 will require applications to ship appdata to be listed in software center
On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 10:42 AM, Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se wrote: On 01/23/2014 02:04 PM, Richard Hughes wrote: On 23 January 2014 12:37, David Howells dhowe...@redhat.com wrote: What constitutes an 'application' in this sense? Does 'gcc' count for instance? How about 'find'? No. In the AppStream and AppData definitions, a program is an application if it has a .desktop file that is visible in the menu. i.e. not NoDisplay=true and that has at least one valid category. How is the user then supposed to find gcc, find, or similar programs/rpm-packages if these does not show up in 'software center'? Or am I missing something obvious here? gcc isn't an application in a sense of gui application so there is to ways to install it either the user installs an IDE which pulls it in as dep or he/she installs it using yum/dnf. How does 'application' correlates to a rpm-package? Application means GUI application that has a .desktop file. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Review swap or Sponser request: the_silver_searcher
On 01/26/2014 09:09 AM, Kenjiro Nakayama wrote: Hi, List Can anyone swap review or take it as sponsor? [1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1008063 Kenjiro, in order to get a package approved, you must be the reporter of a review request. When looking for a sponsor, it definitely helps, if you review other packages as well. Matthias -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: RFC - Downgrade BlueZ to v4.101 in Fedora 20
On 01/24/2014 03:41 AM, Adam Williamson wrote: On Thu, 2014-01-23 at 21:35 -0500, Orcan Ogetbil wrote: On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 7:33 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote: David Sommerseth wrote: So, I wonder if it can be considered to enable a downgrade path for bluez and depending packages, as described in the Contingency Plan: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Bluez5 Officially downgrading BlueZ from 5 to 4 in a shipped release is totally impractical. It just cannot be done realistically. (Contingency plans are only intended to be enacted BEFORE the release.) Right. But is it possible to ship a bluez4 package and rebuild the dependencies against that after the release? How does that differ, in practice? Think about compat packages and parallel installation. Ralf -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Heads up; F22 will require applications to ship appdata to be listed in software center
On 01/26/2014 11:08 AM, drago01 wrote: gcc isn't an application in a sense of gui application so there is to ways to install it either the user installs an IDE which pulls it in as dep or he/she installs it using yum/dnf. Would it not be better to have a 'software center' that includes ALL software available, be they GUI related or not? Probably based on rpm-packages, as that is what our system ultimately relies on. A GUI to handle ALL software available would be better, than one only installing GUI-related software, in my opinion. How does 'application' correlates to a rpm-package? Application means GUI application that has a .desktop file. That makes the 'software center' of lesser use, as the user will be confused when he/she does not find the program/rpm-package/application he/she wants to install. Lars -- Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se http://www.sm6rpz.se/ -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Heads up; F22 will require applications to ship appdata to be listed in software center
Am Sonntag, den 26.01.2014, 12:14 +0100 schrieb Lars E. Pettersson: On 01/26/2014 11:08 AM, drago01 wrote: gcc isn't an application in a sense of gui application so there is to ways to install it either the user installs an IDE which pulls it in as dep or he/she installs it using yum/dnf. Would it not be better to have a 'software center' that includes ALL software available, be they GUI related or not? Probably based on rpm-packages, as that is what our system ultimately relies on. A GUI to handle ALL software available would be better, than one only installing GUI-related software, in my opinion. We already got such a software but its no more installed by default: gnome-packagekit-installer -- Regards, Heiko Adams signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Heads up; F22 will require applications to ship appdata to be listed in software center
On 01/26/2014 12:18 PM, Heiko Adams wrote: Am Sonntag, den 26.01.2014, 12:14 +0100 schrieb Lars E. Pettersson: ... Would it not be better to have a 'software center' that includes ALL software available, be they GUI related or not? Probably based on rpm-packages, as that is what our system ultimately relies on. A GUI to handle ALL software available would be better, than one only installing GUI-related software, in my opinion. We already got such a software but its no more installed by default: gnome-packagekit-installer Why is it not installed by default? Users will normally look for GUIs for installing software nowadays, so if gnome-packagekit-installer/gpk-application complements 'software center' by being a GUI based installer including non-gui packages for install, it should perhaps be installed by default Lars -- Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se http://www.sm6rpz.se/ -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Fedora.next in 2014 -- Big Picture and Themes
- Original Message - From: Alec Leamas leamas.a...@gmail.com To: Development discussions related to Fedora devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 11:22:36 AM Subject: Re: Fedora.next in 2014 -- Big Picture and Themes On 1/25/14, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote: On Sat, 2014-01-25 at 12:04 +0100, Alec Leamas wrote: After hacking a simple tool which provides a GUI for a repository file it's possible to create repository packages complete with desktop and appdata file. I have some 5-10 such repository packages under way, my plan is to push them into rpmfusion. http://rpmfusion.org/Contributors#Read_the_packaging_guidelines I know this is controversial. I've also heard some rumours about Fedora using something they call Packaging Guidelines. Has anyone some information on this topic? ;) Can we just for the sake of discussion leave this formal side of it, for now? So I found this point interesting in thinking about these issues this morning. There was a post of Hughesie's (I think) in another thread which was also illuminating: it suggested the design of Software is to be a generic 'software' installer - to provide as much 'software' from as many sources as possible, under the 'it's all just software' theory, I guess. I think the assumption that this is obviously the right design is interesting, because I strongly disagree - not just for legal or policy reasons, but because that's most definitely *not* what I want. I don't want a 'greedy' software installer that just finds every piece of crap on the internet and offers it to me. I appreciate the curation that I don't know if this is Hughesie's vision. Anyway, it's certainly not mine. Adding whatever software available out there to the repos is a Bad Idea. Agreed That said,, IMHO we actually need to be better on delivering what people need. Some of this is not in Fedora's repos. This is already acknowledged here and there. E. g., rpmfusion has list of repositories which are known to work with rpmfusion [1]. For fedora, we have e. g. jpackage, which is stated s compatible in the Java GL. I feel obligated to comment on this. JPackage and Fedora have taken different routes years ago and installing JPackage rpm on top of Fedora will likely break Fedora packages due to: * additional OSGi metadata Fedora ships but JPackage doesn't * different places of maven pom and depmap changes * different major versions of the same package (aka maven package in JPackage was 1.x (last I checked) but in Fedora it's 3.x) and etc. Would you please point to a place where jpackage is stated as compatible? This is probably a legacy page which needs to be updated with current state of affairs so people don't think they can mix and match freely. Alexander Kurtakov Red Hat Eclipse team I'm trying to find some middle ground here. Instead of just enabling repos, perhaps when installing something else, I'm trying a process where each and every repository added is packaged separately. Hence, here is also separate review for each repository. And even if installed, it's not enabled until l explicitly configured by user.. I see all the problems when using things like pip, gem etc. However, this is not anything like this. It's about letting users install carefully selected repositories which are known to work with Fedora. Doing it this way, we also create a difference to other repositories which are not endorsed. Also this is something we need badly IMHO. It's also task which naturally belongs to rpmfusion, mostly the non-free section. --alec. [1] http://rpmfusion.org/FedoraThirdPartyRepos -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Fedora.next in 2014 -- Big Picture and Themes
Thorsten Leemhuis fed...@leemhuis.info wrote: On 25.01.2014 17:35, Adam Williamson wrote: On Sat, 2014-01-25 at 11:20 +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: Debian, who has a similar stance on non-free Software, does a way better job in that area than Fedora does. Well, not really - they don't have a 'similar stance', they have an official non-free repository. That's kind of a significant difference. :) Ha, Debian and Fedora, the distributions, are imo not that different after a standard install (but yes, there are differences as well - patents strategy, Firmware). But yes, you are right, the Debian project has a a official non-free repository, which is a significant difference to the Fedora project. One that leads to a better user experience; something that afics a lot of Fedora users and some Fedoraproject developers want to see as well. Let's avoid personal examples. I also know many users and Fedora contributors that respect Fedora's foundations and would probably leave Fedora if these were to change. That's why I think it would be good if the the Fedora project might help/guide in that are, even if the resulting repo and the main work is done outside of the Fedora project. I agree with guidance. I don't think anyone would object to help them, so that *they* can ship their software for Fedora in a more UX friendly way. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: RFC - Downgrade BlueZ to v4.101 in Fedora 20
On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 05:40:22PM +0100, Tomasz Torcz wrote: On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 01:33:07AM +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote: David Sommerseth wrote: So, I wonder if it can be considered to enable a downgrade path for bluez and depending packages, as described in the Contingency Plan: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Bluez5 Officially downgrading BlueZ from 5 to 4 in a shipped release is totally impractical. It just cannot be done realistically. (Contingency plans are only intended to be enacted BEFORE the release.) I think we need to to upgrade PulseAudio to 5.0. That version, with bluetooth audio A2DP support, is currently at ”Release Candidate” stage: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/pulseaudio-discuss/2014-January/019858.html After reading more into it… I was mistaken. A2DP is not two-way bluetooth audio. PA 5 won't fix the headset issue: #v+ PulseAudio now supports BlueZ 5, but only the A2DP profile. BlueZ 4 is still the only way to make HSP/HFP work. #v- -- Tomasz TorczThere exists no separation between gods and men: xmpp: zdzich...@chrome.pl one blends softly casual into the other. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Heads up; F22 will require applications to ship appdata to be listed in software center
On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se wrote: On 01/26/2014 11:08 AM, drago01 wrote: gcc isn't an application in a sense of gui application so there is to ways to install it either the user installs an IDE which pulls it in as dep or he/she installs it using yum/dnf. Would it not be better to have a 'software center' that includes ALL software available, be they GUI related or not? No. Installing a non gui app that is invisible to the user does not make much sense. The user that knows about the cmd line can just install it from there as well. Probably based on rpm-packages, No we had that already. A package is an implementation detail. All the users care about are the applications. as that is what our system ultimately relies on. A GUI to handle ALL software available would be better, than one only installing GUI-related software, in my opinion. We have some of them already and the user experience is sub par compared to other plattforms that don't do that. How does 'application' correlates to a rpm-package? Application means GUI application that has a .desktop file. That makes the 'software center' of lesser use, as the user will be confused when he/she does not find the program/rpm-package/application he/she wants to install. Installing an application and then not finding it anywhere is confusing. So we limit it to visible apps i.e GUI apps. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Snapshotting for rollback after updates was[ Re: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug #1054350]
Chris Murphy wrote: I wouldn't ever expect this with a minor version or security update. I'd consider it a complete betrayal of software versioning to do this. In fact in certain instances of major version changes, downward compatibility of the file format is expected. The compatibility is often only one way, i.e. newer versions can read older config files just fine, but not the other way round. Kevin Kofler -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Fedora.next in 2014 -- Big Picture and Themes
On 1/26/14, Aleksandar Kurtakov akurt...@redhat.com wrote: I feel obligated to comment on this. JPackage and Fedora have taken different routes years ago and installing JPackage rpm on top of Fedora will likely break Fedora packages due to: * additional OSGi metadata Fedora ships but JPackage doesn't * different places of maven pom and depmap changes * different major versions of the same package (aka maven package in JPackage was 1.x (last I checked) but in Fedora it's 3.x) and etc. Would you please point to a place where jpackage is stated as compatible? This is probably a legacy page which needs to be updated with current state of affairs so people don't think they can mix and match freely. Alexander Kurtakov Red Hat Eclipse team Oops, bad example it seems. Had the link at hand yesterday, don't find it now. Now let's drop jpackage in this discussion. It is obviously a bad example. But in a way, it's also a good one. Given your statement, I find it highly unlikely that a packaged jpackage repo would have survived a package review, if at all submitted. IMHO, this is really the important issue here. --alec -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug #1054350
Dominick Grift wrote: I did not mean to suggest that. I meant to suggest that SELinux would be able to contain the damage, referring to fatal in: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug And by what magic would it do that? SELinux cannot by its nature contain any damage of the the system is broken type, no matter in what component. The ONLY type of damage it can possibly contain is a security hole (and even there, not all classes of security holes). All those fatal regressions where basic system functionality such as upgrading or even logging in is non- functional can absolutely NOT be fixed by SELinux. Actually it is the other way around. SELinux blocks everything by default. Everything needs to be explicitly allowed by means of configuration Yes. This default deny attitude is a big part of the problem. (Whenever a program covered by a strict policy gets a new feature, the SELinux policy has to be updated to allow it, i.e. a duplication of efforts and a maintainability nightmare.) But no matter what you configure SELinux to allow, it will only work if the program is coded to do it in the first place, so you cannot use SELinux to fix a regression in another critical component. The only regressions you can possibly fix with an SELinux update are regressions in SELinux itself, i.e., the ones that can trivially be avoided by disabling SELinux in the first place. So I still don't follow when you claim SELinux can fix regressions elsewhere. That argument just doesn't make sense, sorry. Kevin Kofler -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug #1054350
Reindl Harald wrote: i am not entirely sure how that is meant * disable the automatism to push to stable * forget the whole karma system at all in case of disable the automatism to push to stable i agree Even just doing that would be an improvement, but I still think the whole karma system should go away entirely and the maintainers should have the call. in my opinion karma is a indication for the maintainer but not the decision - the karma has to be handeled differently for the same package and different updates and only the maintainer can decide that *as person* why? because it depends on the change itself I totally agree that the maintainer should be the one making the call! That's why I want the karma stuff removed. :-) What's the point of keeping that number if we drop the silly Update Policies? Shouldn't the maintainer actually READ the comments instead of basing the decision on an arbitrary algebraic sum of unweighted +1 and -1 terms? speaking with my developer hat on: there are updates on software inside our company where i do not hestitate a single seconds deploy the new CMS version to some hundrets of customers without tell anybody there was a update at all because *i know* there can be no bad impact on the other hand there are updates and changes which needs to prepare any singel webhost, rollout a small update to prepare the real one by add database colums not used currently but need to be there in the time window files are replaced and database scheme can be updated the second case is for not have any single request going wrong and there is another category where all the work above has to be done and tested thousands of times but still need a keep your eyes open after it is done because you can't test and verify every single action a complex software may do with every possible input data +1 Kevin Kofler -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Heads up; F22 will require applications to ship appdata to be listed in software center
* Lars E. Pettersson [26/01/2014 12:26] : Why is it not installed by default? The last time I used it, it had a number of bugs that made it unusable (bugs #883435 and bugs #949907 are the first that come to mind). Emmanuel -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: SELinux RPM scriplet issue annoucement
On Fri, 24 Jan 2014 22:36:02 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote: Note there's a GUI tool similar to easy karma called gooey karma, waiting for a package sponsor. We don't sponsor packages but packagers. ;) Actually, the review request has stalled, waiting for the reviewer (here also the sponsor because it's the packager's first package) to answer: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/1020839 And while some package submitters do attempt at contributing a few reviews, some don't, which makes the process more difficult if all they offer is a single package. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Heads up; F22 will require applications to ship appdata to be listed in software center
On Sun, 2014-01-26 at 12:14 +0100, Lars E. Pettersson wrote: On 01/26/2014 11:08 AM, drago01 wrote: gcc isn't an application in a sense of gui application so there is to ways to install it either the user installs an IDE which pulls it in as dep or he/she installs it using yum/dnf. Would it not be better to have a 'software center' that includes ALL software available, be they GUI related or not? Probably based on rpm-packages, as that is what our system ultimately relies on. A GUI to handle ALL software available would be better, than one only installing GUI-related software, in my opinion. How does 'application' correlates to a rpm-package? Application means GUI application that has a .desktop file. That makes the 'software center' of lesser use, as the user will be confused when he/she does not find the program/rpm-package/application he/she wants to install. Lars -- Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se http://www.sm6rpz.se/ Another issue, I think, deals with useful command line tools, such as python scripts, grep, or such utilities as are yet to be developed. Not all things are gui based, and not being gui based doesn't mean that users won't want or use them. Even most gui programs that do exist had lots of code developed before being transferred to a gui. Working from a command line, with a compiler and debugger is also a good introduction to the actual functioning of a computer and gets one closer to the bare iron, which permits the leveraging of basic knowledge. Of course, this is just my personal opinion. When I work on developing new stuff, the gui is often put off until I get basic code working. The gui essentially clothes the code to simplify the command interface, cut down on typos, and provide prompts for arguments etc. all to assist the user manage and benefit from whatever code is run. regards, Les H -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Heads up; F22 will require applications to ship appdata to be listed in software center
On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 5:27 PM, Les Howell hlhow...@pacbell.net wrote: On Sun, 2014-01-26 at 12:14 +0100, Lars E. Pettersson wrote: On 01/26/2014 11:08 AM, drago01 wrote: gcc isn't an application in a sense of gui application so there is to ways to install it either the user installs an IDE which pulls it in as dep or he/she installs it using yum/dnf. Would it not be better to have a 'software center' that includes ALL software available, be they GUI related or not? Probably based on rpm-packages, as that is what our system ultimately relies on. A GUI to handle ALL software available would be better, than one only installing GUI-related software, in my opinion. How does 'application' correlates to a rpm-package? Application means GUI application that has a .desktop file. That makes the 'software center' of lesser use, as the user will be confused when he/she does not find the program/rpm-package/application he/she wants to install. Lars -- Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se http://www.sm6rpz.se/ Another issue, I think, [...] No this isn't an issue at all. No one is saying that non gui apps are useless or should be removed. The point is that gui installer installs gui apps. If you want to install a command line tool whats wrong with using the command line for that? If you don't know how to use the command line there is no point in installing it in the first place. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Heads up; F22 will require applications to ship appdata to be listed in software center
Hi On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 11:57 AM, drago01 wrote: No this isn't an issue at all. No one is saying that non gui apps are useless or should be removed. The point is that gui installer installs gui apps. If you want to install a command line tool whats wrong with using the command line for that? If you don't know how to use the command line there is no point in installing it in the first place. I can use yum just fine but I don't find it convenient to go to the gui for gui apps and then remember to go use yum to install command line apps. Rahul -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Heads up; F22 will require applications to ship appdata to be listed in software center
Am 26.01.2014 18:01, schrieb Rahul Sundaram: On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 11:57 AM, drago01 wrote: No this isn't an issue at all. No one is saying that non gui apps are useless or should be removed. The point is that gui installer installs gui apps. If you want to install a command line tool whats wrong with using the command line for that? If you don't know how to use the command line there is no point in installing it in the first place. I can use yum just fine but I don't find it convenient to go to the gui for gui apps and then remember to go use yum to install command line apps additionally: if you teach new users to the software-center they will not really aprreciate it reading as example that rsync is a cool tool with command examples in whatever linux magazine and don't find in that was told them to install software that leads easily in oh fedora don't have that if you don't know how to use the commandline is a bad attitude how do you learn to use it from scratch? by find examples and commands somewhere in the internet or magazines ___ summary: a good software-center simply would have two tabs * graphical software (default) * command line tools the command line tools in doubt does not need more than the description of the RPM packages already present ___ do not forget how *you* learned to deal with your linux system do not build barriers that complete new users have the same chance signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Heads up; F22 will require applications to ship appdata to be listed in software center
Am Sonntag, den 26.01.2014, 12:01 -0500 schrieb Rahul Sundaram: Hi On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 11:57 AM, drago01 wrote: No this isn't an issue at all. No one is saying that non gui apps are useless or should be removed. The point is that gui installer installs gui apps. If you want to install a command line tool whats wrong with using the command line for that? If you don't know how to use the command line there is no point in installing it in the first place. I can use yum just fine but I don't find it convenient to go to the gui for gui apps and then remember to go use yum to install command line apps. Following this logic users have to use yum, dnf, yumex oder gnome-packagekit-installer to install i.e. additional GUI-Themes or mouse-cursors because they are no apps and for that reason not listed in gnome-software, right? If yes, that's IMHO absolute bullshit! -- Regards, Heiko Adams signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Heads up; F22 will require applications to ship appdata to be listed in software center
Le dimanche 26 janvier 2014 à 18:14 +0100, Heiko Adams a écrit : Am Sonntag, den 26.01.2014, 12:01 -0500 schrieb Rahul Sundaram: Hi On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 11:57 AM, drago01 wrote: No this isn't an issue at all. No one is saying that non gui apps are useless or should be removed. The point is that gui installer installs gui apps. If you want to install a command line tool whats wrong with using the command line for that? If you don't know how to use the command line there is no point in installing it in the first place. I can use yum just fine but I don't find it convenient to go to the gui for gui apps and then remember to go use yum to install command line apps. Following this logic users have to use yum, dnf, yumex oder gnome-packagekit-installer to install i.e. additional GUI-Themes or mouse-cursors because they are no apps and for that reason not listed in gnome-software, right? If yes, that's IMHO absolute bullshit! It would make more sense to install them directly from the tool that set the mouse cursors, or the theme. Why switch to a different tool ( ie, a software installer ) to install something that is not a software ? -- Michael Scherer -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Snapshotting for rollback after updates was[ Re: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug #1054350]
On Sat, 2014-01-25 at 17:28 -0700, Chris Murphy wrote: On Jan 25, 2014, at 12:55 PM, Simo Sorce s...@redhat.com wrote: The reason is simple: lot's of software *changes* data as part of its normal functioning, including and often in rollback-incompatible ways. You cannot assume that upgrading a program that uses a database X from version A to B can still work if you keep database X unchanged and then rollback from B to A. Lot of applications apply changes to database at upgrade time, either in the rpm scriplets or automatically as soon as a new version binary is run. I wouldn't ever expect this with a minor version or security update. I'd consider it a complete betrayal of software versioning to do this. In fact in certain instances of major version changes, downward compatibility of the file format is expected. And who ever said 'minor' version ? However I've done this with minor versions too with internal databases. There is no betrayal whatsoever, major versions are introduced when you make user-visible changes or you break an API/ABI, you do not necessarily change major version for some internal change. It is basically impossible to find applications that handle the case where you downgrade, in any more graceful way than punting and failing to start in the *good* case. In the bad case they start and trash the database. I guess I'm not really following. Do you have a for instance? At least 3 or 4 applications I am involved with did this kind of internal changes. Because off hand this sounds like a kind of sabotage to me. No, it is just normal, everyday, software development. If it's throw away database info that can simply be reconstructed I'd probably tolerate it. But for that matter, such things should go in an defined cache location so that it's not even being backed up. In some cases it is data that can be reconstructed, so all you need to do is to manually blow away the files and let the app rebuild them. In some cases that also have additional inconveniences. In some cases it is not data you can or want to throw away. But important user data having it's format updated in a way that makes it incompatible with the previous minor version (same major version)? So ? It is only visible if you downgrade which a lot of software do not support and explicitly so. I'm snickering at the language that would ensue in the proprietary software world, if I'm not totally confused about what it is you're suggested is fair game. It'd be the sort of language you wouldn't want your teenager or grandmother to hear. ?? Simo. -- Simo Sorce * Red Hat, Inc * New York -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Snapshotting for rollback after updates was[ Re: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug #1054350]
On Sat, 2014-01-25 at 17:54 -0700, Chris Murphy wrote: On Jan 25, 2014, at 4:12 PM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote: * Do an offline update that includes Foo v2.0 * Boot the updated system, run Foo, it migrates its configuration to some new scheme * Realize there was something wrong with the update, roll it back * Run Foo again, find it doesn't work because it's been migrated to the new config scheme which the old version of Foo doesn't work with I would grumble, but a configuration file being updated and made incompatible with the prior version would be tolerated. Ideally the application makes an unmodified copy. If it doesn't, new school restore with --reflink from snapshot, regular cp if using LVM thinp snapshots, and old school just restore the file from a conventional backup. Not such a big deal. If it's something far less throw away than configuration files being changed, it's a bit more complicated how badly and quickly the conversation degrades. But I can hardly recall a recent example of this happening. It's just not that common in my experience. What about mail application change the format of the mail folders ? It happens, and it is *not* data you want to risk throwing away. There are many other examples like this especially on the server side. Simo. -- Simo Sorce * Red Hat, Inc * New York -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Snapshotting for rollback after updates was[ Re: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug #1054350]
On Sat, 2014-01-25 at 15:04 -0500, Colin Walters wrote: Hi Simo, On Sat, 2014-01-25 at 14:55 -0500, Simo Sorce wrote: The reason is simple: lot's of software *changes* data as part of its normal functioning, including and often in rollback-incompatible ways. I wrote and maintain a system that has been doing continuous deployment of GNOME. It's been running for over a year, and is nearing it's 1th build. I have rolled back many times - both on the server side, and on the client side. Here's one I *just did* a few minutes ago because vala git master broke the build of gnome-calculator: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-continuous/commit/?id=32a52e53100e92aad5d2dfae969be82227322f49 That's me telling the system please stop building git master, and freeze to this specific commit. All clients get that change when they upgrade - OSTree cares not at all for version numbers. The vala maintainers continue to work out the issue in git master, and I continue to ship a working system. Double win. Now it's true, programs in GNOME do sometimes make the type of data format transition you're talking about. Evolution has done it at least twice. But you know what? My real world experience has been that having the ability to roll back has *far* *far* *far* outweighed the downsides when applications do format transitions. It's comparatively rare. Far more people are bit by things like hardware-specific issues where gnome-shell fails to render on this particular card - and rollback works beautifully for that. I never said it won't work in absolute, it probably will work ok in many cases, just to cause incredible issues in others. It is a fine tool in the hands of an expert that knows how to check whether reverting to a snapshot is safe. It is not going to be a good solution for non-expert users though *unless* you provide system APIs that *all* applications use to signal when they are doing irreversible changes so that the user can be warned about potential data loss right when he asks the system to revert a snapshot. Simo. -- Simo Sorce * Red Hat, Inc * New York -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Libreoffice-voikko licensing change
Hi, The licensing guidelines say that license changes should be announced on this list. In version 4.0 libreoffice-voikko changed from GPLv3+ to dual licensing, GPLv3+ or MPLv2.0. Libreoffice-voikko 4.0 requires libvoikko 3.7 which I built today, so it should be in tomorrow Rawhide compose. I will build libreoffice-voikko 4.0 some time next week. -- Ville-Pekka Vainio -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Review swap: glyphicons-halflings-fonts RHBZ#1050805
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, I'd like to swap reviews with someone for a font I've packaged up[1] . [1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1050805 - -- - -- Pete Travis - Fedora Docs Project Leader - 'randomuser' on freenode - immanet...@fedoraproject.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJS5WrhAAoJEL1wZM0+jj2ZxXMH/jV3psuoT5RexCdh8VEHkGnR 80KxAaUAFedRS4807SwGML7bLuUQX8X46jjK1ZAEExivNmgBcvBXdpe8RokEtuUQ NnRDA5pUrURm0Ku9fJCHYIiK5Zp+QAcb05D9EhVdQV6JkiPL2sSFF/uYKBwchLI7 CHynWxkUnaR7K1H1Sf/lW0NB8FvCMHFlohzSNZgh/3cIk4fZ9WYw0H5orxSbOiSW bA+jqW0PsUFNWHzTZpLxRGL41e5fapwHV1Rm8KB2PaTUBpDkl4OXFzyQa2GVDS3f ZxACJjd20Vs+0PhK7PA7maSICAzonQmZgDUlcHjgP92NeqH1ikfzmxR4/MTN7ms= =bZYU -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Snapshotting for rollback after updates was[ Re: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug #1054350]
Am 26.01.2014 20:56, schrieb Chris Murphy: What about mail application change the format of the mail folders ? Good question because I experienced this recently. So the way Apple does this on OS X with Mail, there is no such thing as a mail format change during the life of a major OS version. So major OS versions are 10.7, 10.8, and now 10.9 and you have a warranty for that? So it's impossible the mail format would change between 10.7.1 and 10.7.2 in such a way that 10.7.2 mail could not be read by the 10.7.1 or 10.7.0 mail application and you have a warranty for that? no you do *not* I can upgrade and downgrade all along 10.7.x and the file format is the same. you *think* that Recently I learned that there are two mail formats. There's the every day used format that is apparently completely incompatible between major versions of Mail I can export 10.8 Mail in this format, and 10.7 Mail can also read it. And even this pissed me off as well as several thousand users (at least) based on Apple's community forums on the subject because most of us expect to be able to directly import 10.7 mail into 10.8 Mail. where you prove that what you said above is wrong Well, the mail servers regularly get updated by the company I pay for such things, and I've never noticed the change. It uses IMAP so I don't think the server even cares, its just a bunch of folders and files blabla - nobody talks about the mailserver the topic is *internal* data of *local* software you may have luck and nothing happens with bad luck you even won't realize that there are new mails you never face because of happy upgrade/downgrade internal caches are accessed with *undefined bahvior* any software on that planet will recognize upgrades and convert *internal* data but nobody will give you a warranty how the same software behaves after a downgrade yes, in most cases nothing bad happens in rare cases you recognize the problem and find a solution in some cases you even don't recognize that internal things are slightly going wrong signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Snapshotting for rollback after updates was[ Re: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug #1054350]
On Jan 26, 2014, at 11:41 AM, Simo Sorce s...@redhat.com wrote: I never said it won't work in absolute, it probably will work ok in many cases, just to cause incredible issues in others. It is a fine tool in the hands of an expert that knows how to check whether reverting to a snapshot is safe. Why is the snapshot case any different from a user who reverts doing a clean install or yum downgrade? It is not going to be a good solution for non-expert users though *unless* you provide system APIs that *all* applications use to signal when they are doing irreversible changes so that the user can be warned about potential data loss right when he asks the system to revert a snapshot. Developers should not be sneak attacking non-expert users with file format changes that aren't well announced in advance of consequences they probably won't be able to read their data if they downgrade the application. Chris Murphy -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Snapshotting for rollback after updates was[ Re: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug #1054350]
Am 26.01.2014 21:13, schrieb Chris Murphy: On Jan 26, 2014, at 11:41 AM, Simo Sorce s...@redhat.com wrote: I never said it won't work in absolute, it probably will work ok in many cases, just to cause incredible issues in others. It is a fine tool in the hands of an expert that knows how to check whether reverting to a snapshot is safe. Why is the snapshot case any different from a user who reverts doing a clean install or yum downgrade? because the snapshot restores *a whole filesystem* and not only the affected application? * restore a snapshot of /usr and you have fun with /var/lib/rpm * restore a snapshot of /var/lib/ without /usr and you have fun with the rpmdb and others * restore a snapshot of /usr without /etc and you *may have* random fun and there are *hundrets* of such combinations where the last thing you really would want is restore a snapshot because you have no plan about the real-world impact in doing so It is not going to be a good solution for non-expert users though *unless* you provide system APIs that *all* applications use to signal when they are doing irreversible changes so that the user can be warned about potential data loss right when he asks the system to revert a snapshot. Developers should not be sneak attacking non-expert users with file format changes that aren't well announced in advance of consequences they probably won't be able to read their data if they downgrade the application the perfect world won't happen, sad but true signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Snapshotting for rollback after updates was[ Re: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug #1054350]
On Sun, 2014-01-26 at 13:13 -0700, Chris Murphy wrote: On Jan 26, 2014, at 11:41 AM, Simo Sorce s...@redhat.com wrote: I never said it won't work in absolute, it probably will work ok in many cases, just to cause incredible issues in others. It is a fine tool in the hands of an expert that knows how to check whether reverting to a snapshot is safe. Why is the snapshot case any different from a user who reverts doing a clean install or yum downgrade? It is not. It is not going to be a good solution for non-expert users though *unless* you provide system APIs that *all* applications use to signal when they are doing irreversible changes so that the user can be warned about potential data loss right when he asks the system to revert a snapshot. Developers should not be sneak attacking non-expert users with file format changes that aren't well announced in advance of consequences they probably won't be able to read their data if they downgrade the application. Users should not expect miracles either. Simo. -- Simo Sorce * Red Hat, Inc * New York -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Snapshotting for rollback after updates was[ Re: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug #1054350]
On Jan 26, 2014, at 12:51 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: Am 26.01.2014 20:45, schrieb Chris Murphy: So ? It is only visible if you downgrade which a lot of software do not support and explicitly so The right way to do file format changes is you design the new format. And in a minor version update, the application gains the ability to read the new file format, but still writes the old file format. The major version upgrade of the application is enabled to write the new file format, while it can read either old or new formats. please look at the hidden folders in your userhome and /var/lib/ to get a picture about what we are talking here This sounds like FUD and there's no actual real world example. You're suggesting that if I have gnome-shell 3.10.3 and I either yum downgrade to 3.10.1, or I do a clean install of Fedora 20 and get gnome-shell 3.10.0, that I'm going to see explosions? What's going to happen? Surely there aren't such significant configuration format changes between such minor versions, and surely the development teams anticipate this very use case where uses have a /home with such files, and have no choice but to revert to an older system with the same major version but lower minor version. This is why changing configuration formats is hopefully a conscientious decision and not done willy nilly. From many years of experience I know I can reliably upgrade and downgrade at will, within minor versions of OS X - that is all versions of 10.7.x configuration file wise are expected to be compatible. And I'd exclude disposable cache files which by default aren't even backed up anyway as they're expected to be rebuilt on a restore. Chris Murphy -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: I want to turn on a part of the kernel to make SELinux checking more stringent.
Slightly OT, but is SELinux stopping programs from executing code at address zero? (And how can I stop it doing that?) JONESFORTH, a public domain FORTH I wrote, is written in x86 assembler and prefers to put its threaded interpreter at address 0. This worked fine before, but has now stopped working, and this is reported to be due to SELinux. http://rwmj.wordpress.com/2010/08/07/jonesforth-git-repository/#comment-6591 Rich. -- Richard Jones, Virtualization Group, Red Hat http://people.redhat.com/~rjones virt-df lists disk usage of guests without needing to install any software inside the virtual machine. Supports Linux and Windows. http://people.redhat.com/~rjones/virt-df/ -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Snapshotting for rollback after updates was[ Re: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug #1054350]
Am 26.01.2014 21:30, schrieb Chris Murphy: On Jan 26, 2014, at 12:51 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: Am 26.01.2014 20:45, schrieb Chris Murphy: So ? It is only visible if you downgrade which a lot of software do not support and explicitly so The right way to do file format changes is you design the new format. And in a minor version update, the application gains the ability to read the new file format, but still writes the old file format. The major version upgrade of the application is enabled to write the new file format, while it can read either old or new formats. please look at the hidden folders in your userhome and /var/lib/ to get a picture about what we are talking here This sounds like FUD and there's no actual real world example * i do not know what *may happen* by restore a snapshot * you do not know what *may* happen by restore a snapshot * nobody knows why? because nobody *can* know what exactly packages, versions are installed in which combination or which *user specific* data may exist on exactly the FS which is restored *additionally* to what the system sofware knows frankly you can have your kwallet or the files your browser stores passwords you recently created and thought they are safe on exactly that FS, and they *maybe* saved *between* upgrade, realize a problem and restore the snapshot again: *nobody* knows for sure the *complete possible impact* on the users computer by restore a snapshot because a upgrade should be rolled back surely, you can do that, i and many other people won't do this now nor in the future for good reasons and not knowing *exactly* any possible impact of a operation is a *damned good* reason nothing more to say about that topic because * i *never* won't do that * i *never* would use LVM * i *never* use BTRFS * so my environment even does not support that snapshots why i won#t use BTRFS/LVM? because my drives are a Linux RAID10 and i never re-installed my system from scratch nor would i do that in the future and *because* not everybody is using a storage even supports snapshots it would be a bad idea to rely on that signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: I want to turn on a part of the kernel to make SELinux checking more stringent.
On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 12:38 PM, Richard W.M. Jones rjo...@redhat.com wrote: Slightly OT, but is SELinux stopping programs from executing code at address zero? (And how can I stop it doing that?) JONESFORTH, a public domain FORTH I wrote, is written in x86 assembler and prefers to put its threaded interpreter at address 0. This worked fine before, but has now stopped working, and this is reported to be due to SELinux. IIRC, in new kernels, /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr and MAC policy both have to allow the mmap call. In older kernels, only one of them had to allow it. Maybe some day SMAP-capable machines (e.g. Haswell, I think) will ignore these settings entirely -- I think that SMAP covers all the cases that mmap_min_addr was meant to pretect against. --Andy http://rwmj.wordpress.com/2010/08/07/jonesforth-git-repository/#comment-6591 Rich. -- Richard Jones, Virtualization Group, Red Hat http://people.redhat.com/~rjones virt-df lists disk usage of guests without needing to install any software inside the virtual machine. Supports Linux and Windows. http://people.redhat.com/~rjones/virt-df/ -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Snapshotting for rollback after updates was[ Re: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug #1054350]
On Sun, 2014-01-26 at 12:45 -0700, Chris Murphy wrote: I still really have no idea what sorts of changes you're talking about. I think you made it abundantly clear :-) I am also sure what I wanted to convey to people that understand what I am talking about is also clear. So I think the matter has been expressed well enough for devel and I do not think we need to further pollute the list. Thank you, Simo. -- Simo Sorce * Red Hat, Inc * New York -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: I want to turn on a part of the kernel to make SELinux checking more stringent.
On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Richard W.M. Jones rjo...@redhat.com wrote: Slightly OT, but is SELinux stopping programs from executing code at address zero? (And how can I stop it doing that?) JONESFORTH, a public domain FORTH I wrote, is written in x86 assembler and prefers to put its threaded interpreter at address 0. This worked fine before, but has now stopped working, and this is reported to be due to SELinux. http://rwmj.wordpress.com/2010/08/07/jonesforth-git-repository/#comment-6591 Maybe you just need to set /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr to 0 ? But that's a bad idea as it makes kernel bugs (null pointer deference) easy to exploit. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Snapshotting for rollback after updates was[ Re: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug #1054350]
On Jan 26, 2014, at 1:07 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: Am 26.01.2014 20:56, schrieb Chris Murphy: What about mail application change the format of the mail folders ? Good question because I experienced this recently. So the way Apple does this on OS X with Mail, there is no such thing as a mail format change during the life of a major OS version. So major OS versions are 10.7, 10.8, and now 10.9 and you have a warranty for that? It's a long standing expectation and tradition, and considering millions of users had this sort of behavior occurred by now no doubt I'd have heard about it. I can upgrade and downgrade all along 10.7.x and the file format is the same. you *think* that If there is a change, it's not a downward incompatible change. Recently I learned that there are two mail formats. There's the every day used format that is apparently completely incompatible between major versions of Mail I can export 10.8 Mail in this format, and 10.7 Mail can also read it. And even this pissed me off as well as several thousand users (at least) based on Apple's community forums on the subject because most of us expect to be able to directly import 10.7 mail into 10.8 Mail. where you prove that what you said above is wrong No you just have reading comprehension problem. The minor versions are compatible. The major versions aren't. Well, the mail servers regularly get updated by the company I pay for such things, and I've never noticed the change. It uses IMAP so I don't think the server even cares, its just a bunch of folders and files blabla - nobody talks about the mailserver Jerk. Simo said, in the line right above this that you cut: There are many other examples like this especially on the server side. the topic is *internal* data of *local* software you may have luck and nothing happens This was not at all made clear from the start, it was assumed by people who understood. I explicitly asked if I was on the same page or not. Instead of bringing me up to speed, you decide to be condescending. Congratulations on your rudeness. with bad luck you even won't realize that there are new mails you never face because of happy upgrade/downgrade internal caches are accessed with *undefined bahvior* Email are user documents the same as a Libreoffice document. You do not get to say that just because it's a semi-hidden database, that its file format is allowed to change in a downward incompatible manner. I will disagree with that position at every possible turn as something between sloppy programming and dereliction. any software on that planet will recognize upgrades and convert *internal* data but nobody will give you a warranty how the same software behaves after a downgrade Well insofar as the whole software EULA paradigm basically says for any reason, willful or not, they can blow up your data in any direction possible and there is no liability claim whatsoever… what you're saying doesn't even apply to upgrades. yes, in most cases nothing bad happens in rare cases you recognize the problem and find a solution in some cases you even don't recognize that internal things are slightly going wrong It's no worse a risk than a conventional reversion with a clean install. So I fail to see how any of this relates to snapshots. Chris Murphy -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Snapshotting for rollback after updates was[ Re: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug #1054350]
Am 26.01.2014 21:56, schrieb Chris Murphy: On Jan 26, 2014, at 1:07 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: Well, the mail servers regularly get updated by the company I pay for such things, and I've never noticed the change. It uses IMAP so I don't think the server even cares, its just a bunch of folders and files blabla - nobody talks about the mailserver Jerk. Simo said, in the line right above this that you cut: There are many other examples like this especially on the server side. be careful in which context you somebody calls a Jerk the topic is *internal* data of *local* software you may have luck and nothing happens This was not at all made clear from the start, it was assumed by people who understood because that people thought somebody with that much replies to the thread would have understodd the topic I explicitly asked if I was on the same page or not. Instead of bringing me up to speed, you decide to be condescending. Congratulations on your rudeness as you can see some lines above you needed *exactly* that way of comminucation to understand what we are talking about in this thread - this is the *dvel* list and so technical understanding is implicit in a discussion with bad luck you even won't realize that there are new mails you never face because of happy upgrade/downgrade internal caches are accessed with *undefined bahvior* Email are user documents the same as a Libreoffice document. You do not get to say that just because it's a semi-hidden database, that its file format is allowed to change in a downward incompatible manner what exactly did you not understand in the two words internal caches frankly i faced mail clients where you needed to remove the complete IMAP account to stop not display any new or moved message in specific folders any software on that planet will recognize upgrades and convert *internal* data but nobody will give you a warranty how the same software behaves after a downgrade Well insofar as the whole software EULA paradigm basically says for any reason, willful or not, they can blow up your data in any direction possible and there is no liability claim whatsoever… what you're saying doesn't even apply to upgrades. google for undefined behavior yes, in most cases nothing bad happens in rare cases you recognize the problem and find a solution in some cases you even don't recognize that internal things are slightly going wrong It's no worse a risk than a conventional reversion with a clean install well, i never re-installed any linux system in my life for good reasons the same reasons i never would restore a snapshot of my whole filesystem or even more worse *a complete tree* alone of it So I fail to see how any of this relates to snapshots that you fail to see the possible impact of a snapshot-restore is obviously and you do not need to repeat that again and again signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Snapshotting for rollback after updates was[ Re: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug #1054350]
Am 26.01.2014 21:56, schrieb Chris Murphy: No you just have reading comprehension problem. The minor versions are compatible. The major versions aren't one last question: what are firefox updates 25-26-27 minor, major, dunno? more and more software has no minor/major splitting at all systemd, firefox, chrome.. what warranties do you have? none! what warranties did you ever have? none as long the specific devloper did not make any promises luck is no warranty as well as until now is not signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Snapshotting for rollback after updates was[ Re: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug #1054350]
On Jan 26, 2014, at 1:18 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: Am 26.01.2014 21:13, schrieb Chris Murphy: On Jan 26, 2014, at 11:41 AM, Simo Sorce s...@redhat.com wrote: I never said it won't work in absolute, it probably will work ok in many cases, just to cause incredible issues in others. It is a fine tool in the hands of an expert that knows how to check whether reverting to a snapshot is safe. Why is the snapshot case any different from a user who reverts doing a clean install or yum downgrade? because the snapshot restores *a whole filesystem* and not only the affected application? If I knew the problem was with a particular affected application, why would I be using a snapshot rollback approach or clean install rather than a yum downgrade app approach? * restore a snapshot of /usr and you have fun with /var/lib/rpm * restore a snapshot of /var/lib/ without /usr and you have fun with the rpmdb and others * restore a snapshot of /usr without /etc and you *may have* random fun and there are *hundrets* of such combinations where the last thing you really would want is restore a snapshot because you have no plan about the real-world impact in doing so Well what sort of moron would do rollbacks like this? You're saying if someone puts a stick of dynamite in their mouth then ZOMG! going to die!, but not accounting for why they would put dynamite in their mouth in the first place. This is simply not how rollbacks are done. Yes there are hundreds of mindnumbingly stupid ways a user could break their system. No one is recommending rollbacks that work the way you describe. Chris Murphy -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Snapshotting for rollback after updates was[ Re: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug #1054350]
Am 27.01.2014 00:26, schrieb Chris Murphy: On Jan 26, 2014, at 1:18 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: Am 26.01.2014 21:13, schrieb Chris Murphy: On Jan 26, 2014, at 11:41 AM, Simo Sorce s...@redhat.com wrote: I never said it won't work in absolute, it probably will work ok in many cases, just to cause incredible issues in others. It is a fine tool in the hands of an expert that knows how to check whether reverting to a snapshot is safe. Why is the snapshot case any different from a user who reverts doing a clean install or yum downgrade? because the snapshot restores *a whole filesystem* and not only the affected application? If I knew the problem was with a particular affected application, why would I be using a snapshot rollback approach or clean install rather than a yum downgrade app approach? * restore a snapshot of /usr and you have fun with /var/lib/rpm * restore a snapshot of /var/lib/ without /usr and you have fun with the rpmdb and others * restore a snapshot of /usr without /etc and you *may have* random fun and there are *hundrets* of such combinations where the last thing you really would want is restore a snapshot because you have no plan about the real-world impact in doing so Well what sort of moron would do rollbacks like this? You're saying if someone puts a stick of dynamite in their mouth then ZOMG! going to die!, but not accounting for why they would put dynamite in their mouth in the first place. This is simply not how rollbacks are done. Yes there are hundreds of mindnumbingly stupid ways a user could break their system. No one is recommending rollbacks that work the way you describe. do yourself and everybody a favour and * don't claim others are rude while you talk like above and worser half of the thread * don't talk about things above your technical scope * discuss with software engineers while lacking basic understanding of the topic posts like yours in that thread belongs to the users list and *not* to a development list signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Snapshotting for rollback after updates was[ Re: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug #1054350]
On Jan 26, 2014, at 1:40 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: Am 26.01.2014 21:30, schrieb Chris Murphy: On Jan 26, 2014, at 12:51 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: Am 26.01.2014 20:45, schrieb Chris Murphy: So ? It is only visible if you downgrade which a lot of software do not support and explicitly so The right way to do file format changes is you design the new format. And in a minor version update, the application gains the ability to read the new file format, but still writes the old file format. The major version upgrade of the application is enabled to write the new file format, while it can read either old or new formats. please look at the hidden folders in your userhome and /var/lib/ to get a picture about what we are talking here This sounds like FUD and there's no actual real world example * i do not know what *may happen* by restore a snapshot * you do not know what *may* happen by restore a snapshot * nobody knows Great, well I'll tell you what. I will just keep living dangerously, and when I find a real world case of this, I'll file a bug. How about that? because nobody *can* know what exactly packages, versions are installed in which combination or which *user specific* data may exist on exactly the FS which is restored *additionally* to what the system sofware knows frankly you can have your kwallet or the files your browser stores passwords you recently created and thought they are safe on exactly that FS, and they *maybe* saved *between* upgrade, realize a problem and restore the snapshot Oh for f's sake. And *maybe* the next time I take a shower I'll slip and fall, so I'll just decide now to not bathe ever again. This hysterical paranoia you're going on about is even less hypothetical than slipping in the bathroom. I read this buttkiss nonsense and feel like someone has injected my brain with novocaine. again: *nobody* knows for sure the *complete possible impact* on the users computer by restore a snapshot because a upgrade should be rolled back. Well you know what I think, is that applications should largely be self contained instead of sneezing all kinds of crap all over my file system. It's one of the best examples of why I prefer using OS X compared to Windows, which are drag and drop installation of applications that don't install weird junk all over my computer. Very very easy to rollback from this. surely, you can do that, i and many other people won't do this now nor in the future for good reasons and not knowing *exactly* any possible impact of a operation is a *damned good* reason nothing more to say about that topic because * i *never* won't do that * i *never* would use LVM * i *never* use BTRFS * so my environment even does not support that snapshots Uh huh. So this is sort like a user coming onto this forum and talking trash about all of linux and Fedora and what all is broken and doesn't fit their use case or workflow at all, and then after 50 f'n emails they say they never use linux or Fedora. Even for you this is an especially egregious waste of time and brain cells. I can even feel the rot occurring in my brain from reading this mindnumbing nonsense you've written in this whole thread, and the icing on the cake is that you don't even use the technologies you're bitching about. Bitch, bitch, bitch. That's the only thing you've accomplished. You're just bitching. It's f'n annoying. why i won#t use BTRFS/LVM? because my drives are a Linux RAID10 and i never re-installed my system from scratch nor would i do that in the future and *because* not everybody is using a storage even supports snapshots it would be a bad idea to rely on that I think you having access to a computer with internet access is a bad idea. Chris Murphy -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Snapshotting for rollback after updates was[ Re: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug #1054350]
Am 27.01.2014 00:41, schrieb Chris Murphy: Great, well I'll tell you what. I will just keep living dangerously, and when I find a real world case of this, I'll file a bug. How about that? do that, your problem because nobody *can* know what exactly packages, versions are installed in which combination or which *user specific* data may exist on exactly the FS which is restored *additionally* to what the system sofware knows frankly you can have your kwallet or the files your browser stores passwords you recently created and thought they are safe on exactly that FS, and they *maybe* saved *between* upgrade, realize a problem and restore the snapshot Oh for f's sake. And *maybe* the next time I take a shower I'll slip and fall off-topic you do not understand anything this theard is about so why not leaves us in peace? It's one of the best examples of why I prefer using OS X compared to Windows then use it nothing more to say about that topic because * i *never* won't do that * i *never* would use LVM * i *never* use BTRFS * so my environment even does not support that snapshots Uh huh. So this is sort like a user coming onto this forum and talking trash about all of linux and Fedora and what all is broken and doesn't fit their use case or workflow at all, and then after 50 f'n emails they say they never use linux or Fedora you do not understand the intention of that thread at all so why you don't just listen and be quite? I think you having access to a computer with internet access is a bad idea must be why i get paid for server-adminstration and security for a decade... please bother the users-lists where i am no longer subscribed because people like you leading to get upset again and again signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Snapshotting for rollback after updates was[ Re: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug #1054350]
On Jan 26, 2014, at 4:29 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: do yourself and everybody a favour and * don't claim others are rude while you talk like above and worser half of the thread * don't talk about things above your technical scope * discuss with software engineers while lacking basic understanding of the topic posts like yours in that thread belongs to the users list and *not* to a development list Request declined. You are the only person who has suggested a method of rollbacks that fundamentally would not work, and then argued against it. You created what's referred to as, a strawman argument. Also known as being full of crap. So you can take your silly logical fallacies and mock victimization and stick 'em where the sun don't shine, Reindl. Put it all right back where you got your ridiculous snapshot-rollback concept. Chris Murphy -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Snapshotting for rollback after updates was[ Re: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug #1054350]
Am 27.01.2014 00:51, schrieb Chris Murphy: On Jan 26, 2014, at 4:29 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: do yourself and everybody a favour and * don't claim others are rude while you talk like above and worser half of the thread * don't talk about things above your technical scope * discuss with software engineers while lacking basic understanding of the topic posts like yours in that thread belongs to the users list and *not* to a development list Request declined. You are the only person who has suggested a method of rollbacks that fundamentally would not work are you drunken? i have *not* requested any method of rollback i just gave a few warnings what problems has to be considered if rollbacks of snapshots are taken as possible solution - so *stop* talk to threads if you have no clue about the topic and about who said what * read what others said * start at the begin of the thread doing that * try to understand what you read before commetn any word * look at the *context* of several posts becaus eoyu need that information to understand * after that claim what people suggested or in reality you would say nothing at all signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Snapshotting for rollback after updates was[ Re: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug #1054350]
I don't think this subthread is being particularly useful... And the personal attacks are undesirable. Please stop or at least take it to private email. Thanks, kevin signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Snapshotting for rollback after updates was[ Re: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug #1054350]
On Jan 26, 2014, at 4:47 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: Am 27.01.2014 00:41, schrieb Chris Murphy: Great, well I'll tell you what. I will just keep living dangerously, and when I find a real world case of this, I'll file a bug. How about that? do that, your problem because nobody *can* know what exactly packages, versions are installed in which combination or which *user specific* data may exist on exactly the FS which is restored *additionally* to what the system sofware knows frankly you can have your kwallet or the files your browser stores passwords you recently created and thought they are safe on exactly that FS, and they *maybe* saved *between* upgrade, realize a problem and restore the snapshot Oh for f's sake. And *maybe* the next time I take a shower I'll slip and fall off-topic you do not understand anything this theard is about so why not leaves us in peace? I'll add rampant hyperbole to your list of personal attributes. I'm the one who doesn't understand anything even though you don't use or have any use for snapshots, and you also want no one to have them or it'll make developers careless: On Jan 25, 2014, at 6:10 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: the short version of ahwat you said could have been forget snapshots at all to solve such problems to not lead dvelopers into temptation of i can be less caeful because we have snapshots in other words: don't work around problems by create new ones And then you propose a ridonkulous snapshot-rollback strategy that would for certain cause major problems if the rollback were actually done, and then use that as fait accompli for why the entire concept of fs rollbacks are stupid. Your arguments are asinine. Your emails belong in a kill file. Chris Murphy -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Snapshotting for rollback after updates was[ Re: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug #1054350]
Am 27.01.2014 01:07, schrieb Chris Murphy: And then you propose a ridonkulous snapshot-rollback strategy that would for certain cause major problems if the rollback were actually done *the opposite is true because i WARNED of doing snapshots* signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Snapshotting for rollback after updates was[ Re: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug #1054350]
Am 27.01.2014 00:57, schrieb Kevin Fenzi: I don't think this subthread is being particularly useful... And the personal attacks are undesirable. Please stop or at least take it to private email *sorry* for not early enough realize trolling in first start with the same argumentation as Simon and me to later fight against it while now claim i came up with the idea of snapshots while warning all the time and tried to explain Chris *why* i warn Original-Nachricht Betreff: Re: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug #1054350 Datum: Sat, 25 Jan 2014 16:42:13 -0700 Von: Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com Antwort an: Development discussions related to Fedora devel@lists.fedoraproject.org An: Development discussions related to Fedora devel@lists.fedoraproject.org I don't follow this. The realization an update is bad doesn't necessarily occur right away. So we still need a way to separate system domain vs user domain, at least, so that system files are rolled back separately from user files ___ can someone *please stop that troll telling lies* And then you propose a ridonkulous snapshot-rollback strategy that would for certain cause major problems if the rollback were actually done, and then use that as fait accompli for why the entire concept of fs rollbacks are stupid. Your arguments are asinine. Your emails belong in a kill file. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
guided/interactive/scripted tutorials
I'm looking for something and not quite sure what it's called. In thinking about what the music SIG can do to add value I've hit on wondering whether it's possible to write desktop-based guided tutorials without having to interfere in the application in question itself (otherwise you have to persuade every upstream to build it separately in their codebase, even if it's in their interest to do so that's a massive duplication of effort). You may have used this kind of thing - it tells you 'click this next' and waits until you do. As you might expect, googling for anything along these lines without having a very precise set of keywords only returns pages of tutorials. Any suggestions what to look for or, even better, tools in Fedora that can already do this appreciated. -- imalone http://ibmalone.blogspot.co.uk -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Snapshotting for rollback after updates was[ Re: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug #1054350]
On Jan 26, 2014, at 4:55 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: Am 27.01.2014 00:51, schrieb Chris Murphy: On Jan 26, 2014, at 4:29 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: do yourself and everybody a favour and * don't claim others are rude while you talk like above and worser half of the thread * don't talk about things above your technical scope * discuss with software engineers while lacking basic understanding of the topic posts like yours in that thread belongs to the users list and *not* to a development list Request declined. You are the only person who has suggested a method of rollbacks that fundamentally would not work are you drunken? I haven't had anything to drink in 24+ hours, but this seems off topic. i have *not* requested any method of rollback You gave several examples of rollback-snapshot methods - same thing as you suggested them. I never said you requested them. i just gave a few warnings what problems has to be considered if rollbacks of snapshots are taken as possible solution - so *stop* talk to threads if you have no clue about the topic and about who said what Yes, problems as a result of improper rollback methods. I will not stop challenging junk suggestions which you then use to cast a wide net to argue against all forms of snapshotting and rollback. It's absurd argumentation. * read what others said * start at the begin of the thread doing that * try to understand what you read before commetn any word * look at the *context* of several posts becaus eoyu need that information to understand * after that claim what people suggested or in reality you would say nothing at all Take your own advice. I've been following the thread from the very start, and your snapshot-rollback examples are all junk. Just for instance: On Jan 26, 2014, at 1:18 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: * restore a snapshot of /usr and you have fun with /var/lib/rpm * restore a snapshot of /var/lib/ without /usr and you have fun with the rpmdb and others * restore a snapshot of /usr without /etc and you *may have* random fun Only you have come up with such utterly implausible examples of snapshot-rollback behavior and then chosen to argue against *all* possible snapshot-rollbacks in general. No one would do rollbacks the way you describe above. It would almost certainly break the system. Chris Murphy -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Snapshotting for rollback after updates was[ Re: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug #1054350]
Am 27.01.2014 01:18, schrieb Chris Murphy: On Jan 26, 2014, at 4:55 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: Am 27.01.2014 00:51, schrieb Chris Murphy: On Jan 26, 2014, at 4:29 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: do yourself and everybody a favour and * don't claim others are rude while you talk like above and worser half of the thread * don't talk about things above your technical scope * discuss with software engineers while lacking basic understanding of the topic posts like yours in that thread belongs to the users list and *not* to a development list Request declined. You are the only person who has suggested a method of rollbacks that fundamentally would not work are you drunken? I haven't had anything to drink in 24+ hours, but this seems off topic. i have *not* requested any method of rollback You gave several examples of rollback-snapshot methods - same thing as you suggested them. I never said you requested them oh my god - i gave several examples *what could be dangerous* in doing that i *never* ever suggested them please re-read the thread and then come back with an excuse signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Snapshotting for rollback after updates was[ Re: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug #1054350]
On Jan 26, 2014, at 5:10 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: Am 27.01.2014 01:07, schrieb Chris Murphy: And then you propose a ridonkulous snapshot-rollback strategy that would for certain cause major problems if the rollback were actually done *the opposite is true because i WARNED of doing snapshots* Yes, you argued against the general case of snapshot-rollbacks while using bad examples of rollback methods that would obviously cause problems. Chris Murphy -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Snapshotting for rollback after updates was[ Re: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug #1054350]
On Jan 26, 2014, at 5:20 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: Am 27.01.2014 01:18, schrieb Chris Murphy: On Jan 26, 2014, at 4:55 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: Am 27.01.2014 00:51, schrieb Chris Murphy: On Jan 26, 2014, at 4:29 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: do yourself and everybody a favour and * don't claim others are rude while you talk like above and worser half of the thread * don't talk about things above your technical scope * discuss with software engineers while lacking basic understanding of the topic posts like yours in that thread belongs to the users list and *not* to a development list Request declined. You are the only person who has suggested a method of rollbacks that fundamentally would not work are you drunken? I haven't had anything to drink in 24+ hours, but this seems off topic. i have *not* requested any method of rollback You gave several examples of rollback-snapshot methods - same thing as you suggested them. I never said you requested them oh my god - i gave several examples *what could be dangerous* in doing that i *never* ever suggested them please re-read the thread and then come back with an excuse suggested them can mean two things in English: you recommend them, or they are examples. I mean the 2nd case. I understand that you were not ever recommending your examples. You were suggesting them as examples why snapshots in general are bad. The problem is that your examples are crap. They're bad examples because they would break the system, therefore no one would actually do snapshots-rollbacks per your examples, unless they wanted to blow up their system. Chris Murphy -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Snapshotting for rollback after updates was[ Re: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug #1054350]
Am 27.01.2014 01:32, schrieb Chris Murphy: On Jan 26, 2014, at 5:20 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: Am 27.01.2014 01:18, schrieb Chris Murphy: You gave several examples of rollback-snapshot methods - same thing as you suggested them. I never said you requested them oh my god - i gave several examples *what could be dangerous* in doing that i *never* ever suggested them please re-read the thread and then come back with an excuse suggested them can mean two things in English: you recommend them, or they are examples. I mean the 2nd case. I understand that you were not ever recommending your examples. You were suggesting them as examples why snapshots in general are bad. The problem is that your examples are crap. They're bad examples because they would break the system, therefore no one would actually do snapshots-rollbacks per your examples, unless they wanted to blow up their system. boah the fact therefore no one would actually do snapshots-rollbacks per your examples needs to be proven i only just warned about cases where a rollback would do harm and to *make sure* that really no one would do it without take care so where is now the point you started a flamewar against me instead be quite or say ok, that would be bad and hopefully does not happen this is a *dvelopent dicussion* and the goal of it is to *prevent* mistakes ever happen *before* they are implemented or widely used signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Snapshotting for rollback after updates was[ Re: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug #1054350]
On Jan 26, 2014, at 5:37 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: Am 27.01.2014 01:32, schrieb Chris Murphy: On Jan 26, 2014, at 5:20 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: Am 27.01.2014 01:18, schrieb Chris Murphy: You gave several examples of rollback-snapshot methods - same thing as you suggested them. I never said you requested them oh my god - i gave several examples *what could be dangerous* in doing that i *never* ever suggested them please re-read the thread and then come back with an excuse suggested them can mean two things in English: you recommend them, or they are examples. I mean the 2nd case. I understand that you were not ever recommending your examples. You were suggesting them as examples why snapshots in general are bad. The problem is that your examples are crap. They're bad examples because they would break the system, therefore no one would actually do snapshots-rollbacks per your examples, unless they wanted to blow up their system. boah the fact therefore no one would actually do snapshots-rollbacks per your examples needs to be proven Really? That seems like saying no one would stick dynamite in their mouth unless they wanted to die needs to be proven. I think it will only take a handful of such instances to convince most rational people this isn't a good course of action. i only just warned about cases where a rollback would do harm and to *make sure* that really no one would do it without take care That was my *entire* point going back around 36 hours ago… Chris Murphy wrote: If there is a directory that contains update and non-update related file changes, that's a problem. If there's segmentation, then this can be done. Clearly /home needs to be separate (it's OK to take a snapshot but just don't use it by default in a rollback) or we lose changes in /home in a rollback from the time of the snapshot to the time of the decision to rollback. Another possible case it's /etc/ where the either a package or the user could make changes during the update. so where is now the point you started a flamewar against me instead be quite or say ok, that would be bad and hopefully does not happen I did in fact state your examples were FUD. Where the flaming starts is when you said blabla - nobody talks about the mailserver when Simo *had* just mentioned server side changes which is what I was responding to. And blabla is just f'n rude from the outset, so yeah I'm going to be a bit of a dick when someone is a.) condescending, b.) says no one said X when someone did in fact say X; and c.) deletes the reply where someone said X; and d.) proceeds with a dozen emails about how I'm the one not paying attention when I asked for context clarification and you decided to jump down my throat and it went downhill quickly from there. I do mostly just monitor this list, for several years. When people jump on you, are you quiet? No, you jump right back and you argue like hell. So don't tell me that I should be quiet, or how I should respond. From my perspective you were picking a fight, so I decide to play along and maybe mine was a little bit disproportionate of a response, but don't play victim just because you got burned. this is a *dvelopent dicussion* and the goal of it is to *prevent* mistakes ever happen *before* they are implemented or widely used Which is exactly why I've involved myself in a thread on snapshotting because unlike you, I have been doing snapshots and rollbacks with LVM and Btrfs for quite a few years. I'm aware that there are some challenges that users will likely face and development needs to account for these things so they aren't easily getting into trouble or confused about where their data is. Snapshots are a reality, simply sticking our head in the sand for a feature people have been asking for is simply not the way forward. I am not suggesting at all that your workflow should change to include snapshots, so I ask that you have the courtesy to not claim with bad examples that snapshots generally are a bad idea that will hose user's systems and make developers lazy and careless. This is an entirely voluntary project, you are not required to participate in some aspect of its technology you don't use and seem to not even care about. Chris Murphy -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Snapshotting for rollback after updates was[ Re: Drawing lessons from fatal SELinux bug #1054350]
Am 27.01.2014 02:11, schrieb Chris Murphy: i only just warned about cases where a rollback would do harm and to *make sure* that really no one would do it without take care That was my *entire* point going back around 36 hours ago and that is why i do not understand your turn around 180 degree against Simo and me beause *we both supported* your initial viewpoint until you started to claim all the cases are invalid I did in fact state your examples were FUD with no reason to do so Where the flaming starts is when you said blabla - nobody talks about the mailserver when Simo *had* just mentioned server side changes which is what I was responding to hmpf - read again - server side changes != mailservers after that you told about Apple Mail and what not and then switeched to mailservers my problem was that you truned 180 degree and fighted against any argument going in the direction where restore of snapshots may be tricky and dangerous while you orginally before the subject changed even said the same And blabla is just f'n rude from the outset because i had already enough of the turn 180 degree around and your again and again argumentation about user documents and that they don't change their format while never said that with a single line so yeah I'm going to be a bit of a dick when someone is a.) condescending, b.) says no one said X when someone did in fact say X still: nobody said mailserver, but forget it and c.) deletes the reply where someone said X server side changes doe snot imply change *the format* how mails itself are stored and d.) proceeds with a dozen emails about how I'm the one not paying attention when I asked for context clarification and you decided to jump down my throat and it went downhill quickly from there. then you maybe should have asked *only* about clarification instead start calling developers names if they would change the format of user documents which was *never* part of the context I do mostly just monitor this list, for several years. When people jump on you, are you quiet? no, but i am not a dickhead and listen if people telling me that talking about user documents is not any part of the discussion in case of downgrades and internal environment data of applications may have changed unnoticed No, you jump right back and you argue like hell. So don't tell me that I should be quiet, or how I should respond and if you really would look you have noticed a difference From my perspective you were picking a fight if that would be true i have called you a lot of names in the public which i *really* avoided while with some replies you begged for it so I decide to play along why? and maybe mine was a little bit disproportionate of a response a little? come on! but don't play victim just because you got burned please calm more down and re-read the whole thread including the point Simo even gave up completly to try explain you the context Which is exactly why I've involved myself in a thread on snapshotting because unlike you, I have been doing snapshots and rollbacks with LVM and Btrfs for quite a few years. i statet that i do not use snapshots nor the graphical stuf fnor gnome to make clear *i am not affected* of any decision in that direction but *care* about others, otherwise the whole sub-thread would not have been relevant for me I'm aware that there are some challenges that users will likely face and development needs to account for these things so they aren't easily getting into trouble or confused about where their data is. which was my whole point Snapshots are a reality, simply sticking our head in the sand for a feature people have been asking for is simply not the way forward. I am not suggesting at all that your workflow should change to include snapshots, so I ask that you have the courtesy to not claim with bad examples that snapshots generally are a bad idea that will hose user's systems and make developers lazy and careless i did not say anything about snapshots in general the topic is snapshots in case of updates and make it easy to roll them back this needs *a lot of special care* that is my whole point This is an entirely voluntary project, you are not required to participate in some aspect of its technology you don't use and seem to not even care about sorry that i case about the project in general signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
icecat or/and firefox?
Hi, Here is an interesting package icecat[1], which is a more free version firefox. Do we allow this in Fedora now? Thanks. [1]--https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1048493 -- Yours sincerely, Christopher Meng Noob here. http://cicku.me -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: icecat or/and firefox?
Il 27/01/2014 05:08, Christopher Meng ha scritto: Hi, Here is an interesting package icecat[1], which is a more free version firefox. Do we allow this in Fedora now? Thanks. [1]--https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1048493 -- Yours sincerely, Christopher Meng Noob here. http://cicku.me hi 've tried, i prefer firefox... regards gil attachment: puntogil.vcf-- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: I want to turn on a part of the kernel to make SELinux checking more stringent.
On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 08:38:25PM +, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: JONESFORTH, a public domain FORTH I wrote, is written in x86 assembler and prefers to put its threaded interpreter at address 0. Can you change its preference? Permitting the mapping of executable code at address 0 makes it much easier to exploit null pointer vulnerabilities in the kernel. Recent (within the past few years…) kernels will refuse to let you mmap stuff below 64K or so regardless of selinux policy, so this may break on other distributions as well. -- Matthew Garrett | mj...@srcf.ucam.org -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: icecat or/and firefox?
've tried, i prefer firefox... Actually firefox is easy to use and quick in developing. But please read [1]. icecat solves it, and that is why I want to use icecat in Fedora. [1] http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/javascript-trap.html Kenjiro - 元のメッセージ - 差出人: punto...@libero.it 宛先: devel@lists.fedoraproject.org 送信済み: 2014年1月27日, 月曜日 午後 1:26:42 件名: Re: icecat or/and firefox? Il 27/01/2014 05:08, Christopher Meng ha scritto: Hi, Here is an interesting package icecat[1], which is a more free version firefox. Do we allow this in Fedora now? Thanks. [1]--https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1048493 -- Yours sincerely, Christopher Meng Noob here. http://cicku.me hi 've tried, i prefer firefox... regards gil -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: icecat or/and firefox?
Hi On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 11:08 PM, Christopher Meng cicku...@gmail.comwrote: Hi, Here is an interesting package icecat[1], which is a more free version firefox. Do we allow this in Fedora now? Thanks. [1]--https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1048493 -- I would say we do but if you are in doubt, file a ticket with packaging committee Rahul -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: icecat or/and firefox?
On 01/27/2014 05:08 AM, Christopher Meng wrote: Hi, Here is an interesting package icecat[1], which is a more free version firefox. Do we allow this in Fedora now? My view: It's a package like any arbitrary other. So, if it complies to the rules applied elsewhere, I don't see much reasons why it can not be part of Fedora. I am having doubts on whether it's long-term maintainable (esp. security-wise) and would not want to exclude their may exist legal issues, but these are different stories. Ralf -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Source string contextualization
Hi Nilamdyuti, On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:52 PM, Nilamdyuti Goswami ngosw...@redhat.comwrote: Hi all, While translating some of the fedora packages we often come across some source strings whose context or meaning is not clear. This results in wrong translations which is discovered later while using the actual application. This in turn effects the concerned application. To solve this issue, we have formed a Fedora SIG named Source String Contextualizing Group [1] aimed at providing concise yet meaningful description of the concerned source strings in the source code itself to ensure the correctness and quality in the resulting translations. I see iok project have many locales available for translations in iok package so maybe you people can help in improving source translation strings by providing patches in bugzilla or upstream tracker. This is really helpful to let translators understand the exact context of the source string. This will help to have more accurate translations. Regards, Parag. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Source string contextualization
On 27-01-2014 12:34 অপৰাহ্ন, Parag N(पराग़) wrote: Hi Nilamdyuti, On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:52 PM, Nilamdyuti Goswami ngosw...@redhat.com mailto:ngosw...@redhat.com wrote: Hi all, While translating some of the fedora packages we often come across some source strings whose context or meaning is not clear. This results in wrong translations which is discovered later while using the actual application. This in turn effects the concerned application. To solve this issue, we have formed a Fedora SIG named Source String Contextualizing Group [1] aimed at providing concise yet meaningful description of the concerned source strings in the source code itself to ensure the correctness and quality in the resulting translations. I see iok project have many locales available for translations in iok package so maybe you people can help in improving source translation strings by providing patches in bugzilla or upstream tracker. This is really helpful to let translators understand the exact context of the source string. This will help to have more accurate translations. Regards, Parag. Thanks Parag for pointing out a package and providing your valuable suggestion. We shall work on the same. Regards, Nilamdyuti -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
File Future-0.23.tar.gz uploaded to lookaside cache by eseyman
A file has been added to the lookaside cache for perl-Future: 8a7e7909cf2906fe785474e6a24bf314 Future-0.23.tar.gz -- Fedora Extras Perl SIG http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SIGs/Perl perl-devel mailing list perl-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/perl-devel
[perl-Future] Update to 0.23
commit e41c0c50a23fb60b21dd05146300e58b46490aaf Author: Emmanuel Seyman emman...@seyman.fr Date: Sun Jan 26 11:08:10 2014 +0100 Update to 0.23 .gitignore |1 + perl-Future.spec |5 - sources |2 +- 3 files changed, 6 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) --- diff --git a/.gitignore b/.gitignore index bf83136..0303771 100644 --- a/.gitignore +++ b/.gitignore @@ -8,3 +8,4 @@ /Future-0.20.tar.gz /Future-0.21.tar.gz /Future-0.22.tar.gz +/Future-0.23.tar.gz diff --git a/perl-Future.spec b/perl-Future.spec index 72dfaae..c47ed76 100644 --- a/perl-Future.spec +++ b/perl-Future.spec @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ Name: perl-Future -Version:0.22 +Version:0.23 Release:1%{?dist} Summary:Perl object system to represent an operation awaiting completion License:GPL+ or Artistic @@ -46,6 +46,9 @@ find $RPM_BUILD_ROOT -depth -type d -exec rmdir {} 2/dev/null \; %{_mandir}/man3/* %changelog +* Sun Jan 26 2014 Emmanuel Seyman emman...@seyman.fr - 0.23-1 +- Update to 0.23 + * Sun Jan 12 2014 Emmanuel Seyman emman...@seyman.fr - 0.22-1 - Update to 0.22 diff --git a/sources b/sources index da3e042..5388cd8 100644 --- a/sources +++ b/sources @@ -1 +1 @@ -d18a1a16ab1bba18a1a0a5e2efadb2d3 Future-0.22.tar.gz +8a7e7909cf2906fe785474e6a24bf314 Future-0.23.tar.gz -- Fedora Extras Perl SIG http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SIGs/Perl perl-devel mailing list perl-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/perl-devel
File Mojolicious-4.69.tar.gz uploaded to lookaside cache by eseyman
A file has been added to the lookaside cache for perl-Mojolicious: 4ed78d660f0fb705dff2a32ba77cef68 Mojolicious-4.69.tar.gz -- Fedora Extras Perl SIG http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SIGs/Perl perl-devel mailing list perl-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/perl-devel
[perl-Mojolicious] Update to 4.69
commit 3f934b4c41191a7799062442601d62abed4ba814 Author: Emmanuel Seyman emman...@seyman.fr Date: Sun Jan 26 11:17:00 2014 +0100 Update to 4.69 .gitignore|1 + perl-Mojolicious.spec |5 - sources |2 +- 3 files changed, 6 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) --- diff --git a/.gitignore b/.gitignore index b6a767b..9e224eb 100644 --- a/.gitignore +++ b/.gitignore @@ -113,3 +113,4 @@ Mojolicious-0.26.tar.gz /Mojolicious-4.63.tar.gz /Mojolicious-4.66.tar.gz /Mojolicious-4.67.tar.gz +/Mojolicious-4.69.tar.gz diff --git a/perl-Mojolicious.spec b/perl-Mojolicious.spec index ee0e7d9..272579f 100644 --- a/perl-Mojolicious.spec +++ b/perl-Mojolicious.spec @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ Name: perl-Mojolicious -Version:4.67 +Version:4.69 Release:1%{?dist} Summary:A next generation web framework for Perl License:Artistic 2.0 @@ -60,6 +60,9 @@ make test %{_mandir}/man3/* %changelog +* Sun Jan 26 2014 Emmanuel Seyman emman...@seyman.fr - 4.69-1 +- Update to 4.69 + * Sun Jan 12 2014 Emmanuel Seyman emman...@seyman.fr - 4.67-1 - Update to 4.67 diff --git a/sources b/sources index 206c6e3..4321d24 100644 --- a/sources +++ b/sources @@ -1 +1 @@ -7b830a89b0639391df193d0ed774881b Mojolicious-4.67.tar.gz +4ed78d660f0fb705dff2a32ba77cef68 Mojolicious-4.69.tar.gz -- Fedora Extras Perl SIG http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SIGs/Perl perl-devel mailing list perl-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/perl-devel
File URI-Escape-XS-0.11.tar.gz uploaded to lookaside cache by eseyman
A file has been added to the lookaside cache for perl-URI-Escape-XS: 712fa7dea1e3dc6852bbb87c16a1fb26 URI-Escape-XS-0.11.tar.gz -- Fedora Extras Perl SIG http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SIGs/Perl perl-devel mailing list perl-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/perl-devel
[perl-URI-Escape-XS] Update to 0.11
commit d9f461c13fc88b5f3b56a0ba775cd8f11a2344e5 Author: Emmanuel Seyman emman...@seyman.fr Date: Sun Jan 26 11:22:02 2014 +0100 Update to 0.11 .gitignore |1 + perl-URI-Escape-XS.spec |7 +-- sources |2 +- 3 files changed, 7 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-) --- diff --git a/.gitignore b/.gitignore index 3111afa..5c97614 100644 --- a/.gitignore +++ b/.gitignore @@ -1 +1,2 @@ /URI-Escape-XS-0.10.tar.gz +/URI-Escape-XS-0.11.tar.gz diff --git a/perl-URI-Escape-XS.spec b/perl-URI-Escape-XS.spec index b946e22..fc9ca4b 100644 --- a/perl-URI-Escape-XS.spec +++ b/perl-URI-Escape-XS.spec @@ -1,6 +1,6 @@ Name: perl-URI-Escape-XS -Version:0.10 -Release:5%{?dist} +Version:0.11 +Release:1%{?dist} Summary:Drop-In replacement for URI::Escape License:GPL+ or Artistic @@ -49,6 +49,9 @@ make test %{_mandir}/man3/* %changelog +* Sun Jan 26 2014 Emmanuel Seyman emman...@seyman.fr - 0.11-1 +- Update to 0.11 + * Sun Aug 04 2013 Fedora Release Engineering rel-...@lists.fedoraproject.org - 0.10-5 - Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_20_Mass_Rebuild diff --git a/sources b/sources index 23caf82..8b4cab4 100644 --- a/sources +++ b/sources @@ -1 +1 @@ -23453334534498de37a758de3b077793 URI-Escape-XS-0.10.tar.gz +712fa7dea1e3dc6852bbb87c16a1fb26 URI-Escape-XS-0.11.tar.gz -- Fedora Extras Perl SIG http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SIGs/Perl perl-devel mailing list perl-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/perl-devel
File Locale-Maketext-Lexicon-0.98.tar.gz uploaded to lookaside cache by corsepiu
A file has been added to the lookaside cache for perl-Locale-Maketext-Lexicon: d7011e111e945251ebdaad9a73910eea Locale-Maketext-Lexicon-0.98.tar.gz -- Fedora Extras Perl SIG http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SIGs/Perl perl-devel mailing list perl-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/perl-devel
[perl-Locale-Maketext-Lexicon] Upstream update.
commit a2b93b9a8ef5d455517ea14c5426709878e0dce8 Author: Ralf Corsépius corse...@fedoraproject.org Date: Sun Jan 26 11:47:51 2014 +0100 Upstream update. .gitignore|2 +- perl-Locale-Maketext-Lexicon.spec |7 +-- sources |2 +- 3 files changed, 7 insertions(+), 4 deletions(-) --- diff --git a/.gitignore b/.gitignore index ec9ebee..360e11b 100644 --- a/.gitignore +++ b/.gitignore @@ -1 +1 @@ -/Locale-Maketext-Lexicon-0.97.tar.gz +/Locale-Maketext-Lexicon-0.98.tar.gz diff --git a/perl-Locale-Maketext-Lexicon.spec b/perl-Locale-Maketext-Lexicon.spec index 8b47633..288cb2e 100644 --- a/perl-Locale-Maketext-Lexicon.spec +++ b/perl-Locale-Maketext-Lexicon.spec @@ -1,6 +1,6 @@ Name: perl-Locale-Maketext-Lexicon -Version: 0.97 -Release: 2%{?dist} +Version: 0.98 +Release: 1%{?dist} Summary: Extract translatable strings from source License: MIT Group: Development/Libraries @@ -65,6 +65,9 @@ make test %{_mandir}/man3/* %changelog +* Sun Jan 26 2014 Ralf Corsépius corse...@fedoraproject.org - 0.98-1 +- Upstream update. + * Wed Jan 22 2014 Ralf Corsépius corse...@fedoraproject.org - 0.97-2 - Reflect Lingua::EN::Sentence having made it into Fedora. diff --git a/sources b/sources index c515549..1d5d98b 100644 --- a/sources +++ b/sources @@ -1 +1 @@ -88d779875c8986cfba998363cb73be77 Locale-Maketext-Lexicon-0.97.tar.gz +d7011e111e945251ebdaad9a73910eea Locale-Maketext-Lexicon-0.98.tar.gz -- Fedora Extras Perl SIG http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SIGs/Perl perl-devel mailing list perl-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/perl-devel
Broken dependencies: perl-Catalyst-Controller-HTML-FormFu
perl-Catalyst-Controller-HTML-FormFu has broken dependencies in the rawhide tree: On x86_64: perl-Catalyst-Controller-HTML-FormFu-0.09004-4.fc20.noarch requires perl(HTML::FormFu::MultiForm) On i386: perl-Catalyst-Controller-HTML-FormFu-0.09004-4.fc20.noarch requires perl(HTML::FormFu::MultiForm) On armhfp: perl-Catalyst-Controller-HTML-FormFu-0.09004-4.fc20.noarch requires perl(HTML::FormFu::MultiForm) Please resolve this as soon as possible. -- Fedora Extras Perl SIG http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SIGs/Perl perl-devel mailing list perl-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/perl-devel
Broken dependencies: perl-qpid_proton
perl-qpid_proton has broken dependencies in the rawhide tree: On x86_64: perl-qpid_proton-0.6-1.fc21.x86_64 requires perl(qpid_proton) perl-qpid_proton-0.6-1.fc21.x86_64 requires perl(qpid::proton::ExceptionHandling) On i386: perl-qpid_proton-0.6-1.fc21.i686 requires perl(qpid_proton) perl-qpid_proton-0.6-1.fc21.i686 requires perl(qpid::proton::ExceptionHandling) On armhfp: perl-qpid_proton-0.6-1.fc21.armv7hl requires perl(qpid_proton) perl-qpid_proton-0.6-1.fc21.armv7hl requires perl(qpid::proton::ExceptionHandling) Please resolve this as soon as possible. -- Fedora Extras Perl SIG http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SIGs/Perl perl-devel mailing list perl-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/perl-devel
Broken dependencies: mojomojo
mojomojo has broken dependencies in the rawhide tree: On x86_64: mojomojo-1.10-1.fc20.noarch requires perl(HTML::FormFu::Element::reCAPTCHA) On i386: mojomojo-1.10-1.fc20.noarch requires perl(HTML::FormFu::Element::reCAPTCHA) On armhfp: mojomojo-1.10-1.fc20.noarch requires perl(HTML::FormFu::Element::reCAPTCHA) Please resolve this as soon as possible. -- Fedora Extras Perl SIG http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SIGs/Perl perl-devel mailing list perl-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/perl-devel
Broken dependencies: perl-Language-Expr
perl-Language-Expr has broken dependencies in the rawhide tree: On x86_64: perl-Language-Expr-0.19-4.fc19.noarch requires perl(:MODULE_COMPAT_5.16.2) On i386: perl-Language-Expr-0.19-4.fc19.noarch requires perl(:MODULE_COMPAT_5.16.2) On armhfp: perl-Language-Expr-0.19-4.fc19.noarch requires perl(:MODULE_COMPAT_5.16.2) Please resolve this as soon as possible. -- Fedora Extras Perl SIG http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SIGs/Perl perl-devel mailing list perl-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/perl-devel
[Bug 1058004] New: perl-Event-RPC-1.04 is available
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1058004 Bug ID: 1058004 Summary: perl-Event-RPC-1.04 is available Product: Fedora Version: rawhide Component: perl-Event-RPC Keywords: FutureFeature, Triaged Assignee: ppi...@redhat.com Reporter: upstream-release-monitor...@fedoraproject.org QA Contact: extras...@fedoraproject.org CC: perl-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org, ppi...@redhat.com Latest upstream release: 1.04 Current version/release in Fedora Rawhide: 1.03-3.fc20 URL: http://search.cpan.org/dist/Event-RPC/ Please consult the package updates policy before you issue an update to a stable branch: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Updates_Policy More information about the service that created this bug can be found at: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upstream_release_monitoring -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. Unsubscribe from this bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/token.cgi?t=0K8mW0BjaEa=cc_unsubscribe -- Fedora Extras Perl SIG http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SIGs/Perl perl-devel mailing list perl-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/perl-devel
[Bug 1058005] New: perl-File-Fetch-0.48 is available
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1058005 Bug ID: 1058005 Summary: perl-File-Fetch-0.48 is available Product: Fedora Version: rawhide Component: perl-File-Fetch Keywords: FutureFeature, Triaged Assignee: ppi...@redhat.com Reporter: upstream-release-monitor...@fedoraproject.org QA Contact: extras...@fedoraproject.org CC: perl-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org, ppi...@redhat.com Latest upstream release: 0.48 Current version/release in Fedora Rawhide: 0.46-1.fc21 URL: http://search.cpan.org/dist/File-Fetch/ Please consult the package updates policy before you issue an update to a stable branch: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Updates_Policy More information about the service that created this bug can be found at: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upstream_release_monitoring -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. Unsubscribe from this bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/token.cgi?t=xobTTqENqWa=cc_unsubscribe -- Fedora Extras Perl SIG http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SIGs/Perl perl-devel mailing list perl-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/perl-devel
[Bug 1058007] New: perl-Module-Load-Conditional-0.62 is available
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1058007 Bug ID: 1058007 Summary: perl-Module-Load-Conditional-0.62 is available Product: Fedora Version: rawhide Component: perl-Module-Load-Conditional Keywords: FutureFeature, Triaged Assignee: ppi...@redhat.com Reporter: upstream-release-monitor...@fedoraproject.org QA Contact: extras...@fedoraproject.org CC: perl-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org, ppi...@redhat.com Latest upstream release: 0.62 Current version/release in Fedora Rawhide: 0.60-1.fc21 URL: http://search.cpan.org/dist/Module-Load-Conditional/ Please consult the package updates policy before you issue an update to a stable branch: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Updates_Policy More information about the service that created this bug can be found at: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upstream_release_monitoring -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. Unsubscribe from this bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/token.cgi?t=D87bO0hYzka=cc_unsubscribe -- Fedora Extras Perl SIG http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SIGs/Perl perl-devel mailing list perl-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/perl-devel
[Bug 1058006] New: perl-Module-Load-0.30 is available
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1058006 Bug ID: 1058006 Summary: perl-Module-Load-0.30 is available Product: Fedora Version: rawhide Component: perl-Module-Load Keywords: FutureFeature, Triaged Assignee: ppi...@redhat.com Reporter: upstream-release-monitor...@fedoraproject.org QA Contact: extras...@fedoraproject.org CC: perl-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org, ppi...@redhat.com Latest upstream release: 0.30 Current version/release in Fedora Rawhide: 0.28-1.fc21 URL: http://search.cpan.org/dist/Module-Load/ Please consult the package updates policy before you issue an update to a stable branch: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Updates_Policy More information about the service that created this bug can be found at: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upstream_release_monitoring -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. Unsubscribe from this bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/token.cgi?t=NfgWDAHleDa=cc_unsubscribe -- Fedora Extras Perl SIG http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SIGs/Perl perl-devel mailing list perl-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/perl-devel
[Bug 1058009] New: perl-Text-CSV_XS-1.03 is available
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1058009 Bug ID: 1058009 Summary: perl-Text-CSV_XS-1.03 is available Product: Fedora Version: rawhide Component: perl-Text-CSV_XS Keywords: FutureFeature, Triaged Assignee: psab...@redhat.com Reporter: upstream-release-monitor...@fedoraproject.org QA Contact: extras...@fedoraproject.org CC: mmasl...@redhat.com, perl-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org, psab...@redhat.com Latest upstream release: 1.03 Current version/release in Fedora Rawhide: 1.02-1.fc21 URL: http://search.cpan.org/dist/Text-CSV_XS/ Please consult the package updates policy before you issue an update to a stable branch: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Updates_Policy More information about the service that created this bug can be found at: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upstream_release_monitoring -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. Unsubscribe from this bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/token.cgi?t=sD3g8yg4SUa=cc_unsubscribe -- Fedora Extras Perl SIG http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SIGs/Perl perl-devel mailing list perl-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/perl-devel
[perl-Array-Diff] Get rid of pointless in-place edit flag in perl filter invocation
commit 50739827cfe5c1b4a14a4aaa16b10f73173ed6c1 Author: Paul Howarth p...@city-fan.org Date: Sun Jan 26 13:33:14 2014 + Get rid of pointless in-place edit flag in perl filter invocation perl-Array-Diff.spec |2 +- 1 files changed, 1 insertions(+), 1 deletions(-) --- diff --git a/perl-Array-Diff.spec b/perl-Array-Diff.spec index 4d1f6c7..4b9fe35 100644 --- a/perl-Array-Diff.spec +++ b/perl-Array-Diff.spec @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ # Only need manual requires for use base XXX; prior to rpm 4.9 -%global rpm49 %(rpm --version | perl -pi -e 's/^.* (\\d+)\\.(\\d+).*/sprintf(%d.%03d,$1,$2) ge 4.009 ? 1 : 0/e') +%global rpm49 %(rpm --version | perl -p -e 's/^.* (\\d+)\\.(\\d+).*/sprintf(%d.%03d,$1,$2) ge 4.009 ? 1 : 0/e') Name: perl-Array-Diff Version:0.07 -- Fedora Extras Perl SIG http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SIGs/Perl perl-devel mailing list perl-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/perl-devel
[perl-File-chdir/el6] (16 commits) ...Merge branch 'master' (early part) into el6
Summary of changes: 67c10db... Fix typo that causes a failure to update the common directo (*) 419207d... - rebuild against perl 5.10.1 (*) 2ce0679... - Mass rebuild with perl-5.12.0 (*) 7d5fa1b... - Mass rebuild with perl-5.12.0 (*) 331023d... dist-git conversion (*) b74b87c... - 661697 rebuild for fixing problems with vendorach/lib (*) 7d194c5... - Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_15_Mass (*) 3e98401... Perl mass rebuild (*) 9165e12... update to 0.1003 to fix perl-5.14 FTBFS (*) 055da92... 0.1006 bump (*) ab8e8bd... Perl 5.16 rebuild (*) c7c9a9d... - Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_18_Mass (*) ac252aa... 1.007 bump (*) fdd82be... Correct changelog entry (*) 4531d0f... 0.1008 bump (*) 6dcec53... Merge branch 'master' (early part) into el6 (*) This commit already existed in another branch; no separate mail sent -- Fedora Extras Perl SIG http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SIGs/Perl perl-devel mailing list perl-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/perl-devel
[perl-File-chdir/el6: 16/16] Merge branch 'master' (early part) into el6
commit 6dcec5345e8789fb548e449ad1d05377677e354c Merge: a32694e 4531d0f Author: Paul Howarth p...@city-fan.org Date: Sun Jan 26 14:00:36 2014 + Merge branch 'master' (early part) into el6 Conflicts: .gitignore .gitignore |2 +- perl-File-chdir.spec | 68 + sources |2 +- 3 files changed, 53 insertions(+), 19 deletions(-) --- diff --cc .gitignore index 8e8f8b7,8f299ae..75a9c44 --- a/.gitignore +++ b/.gitignore @@@ -1,1 -1,5 +1,1 @@@ --File-chdir-0.09.tar.gz -/File-chdir-0.1003.tar.gz -/File-chdir-0.1006.tar.gz -/File-chdir-0.1007.tar.gz -/File-chdir-0.1008.tar.gz ++/File-chdir-[0-9.]*.tar.gz -- Fedora Extras Perl SIG http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SIGs/Perl perl-devel mailing list perl-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/perl-devel
[perl-File-chdir] Created tag perl-File-chdir-0.1008-1.el6
The lightweight tag 'perl-File-chdir-0.1008-1.el6' was created pointing to: 6dcec53... Merge branch 'master' (early part) into el6 -- Fedora Extras Perl SIG http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SIGs/Perl perl-devel mailing list perl-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/perl-devel
[Bug 1033515] Retire perl-Class-Data-Inheritable in EPEL6
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1033515 Paul Howarth p...@city-fan.org changed: What|Removed |Added CC||p...@city-fan.org Flags||fedora-cvs? --- Comment #2 from Paul Howarth p...@city-fan.org --- Package Change Request == Package Name: perl-Class-Data-Inheritable New Branches: el6 Owners: pghmcfc InitialCC: perl-sig Unretirement request as per https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/5842 -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. Unsubscribe from this bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/token.cgi?t=DbUxiQg7Aza=cc_unsubscribe -- Fedora Extras Perl SIG http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SIGs/Perl perl-devel mailing list perl-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/perl-devel
[Bug 1033514] Retire perl-Class-Accessor in EPEL6
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1033514 Paul Howarth p...@city-fan.org changed: What|Removed |Added CC||p...@city-fan.org Flags||fedora-cvs? --- Comment #2 from Paul Howarth p...@city-fan.org --- Package Change Request == Package Name: perl-Class-Accessor New Branches: el6 Owners: pghmcfc InitialCC: perl-sig Unretirement request as per https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/5842 -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. Unsubscribe from this bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/token.cgi?t=dN4MLfQo7wa=cc_unsubscribe -- Fedora Extras Perl SIG http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SIGs/Perl perl-devel mailing list perl-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/perl-devel