Re: It’s time to transform the Fedora devel list into something new
Kevin Kofler via devel writes: > Kevin Kofler via devel wrote: > >> Stephen Smoogen wrote: >>> So let us say it is voted on and the answer is keep the mailing lists. >>> What are the next steps to fixing the mail system which is held together >>> by duct-tape and bailing wire? >> [etc.] >> >> Thanks for confirming that the decision was actually already made >> elsewhere and that this whole RFC thread is just a farce. Looks like "I >> propose" in the original post should really read as "I dictate". > > PS: The process that Stephen describes reminds me of those rent sharks that > deliberately let their beautiful old historical houses rot until they fall > apart so badly that the rent sharks are allowed to tear them down and build > some ugly new concrete box with unaffordable apartments in their place. This seems ... disrespectful at best ... toward the people who put their time into keeping the existing email setup working. It seems like a way to make them throw up their hands and find a more rewarding way to spend their time, thus accelerating the demise of this mailing list. As I've said before, I don't welcome a transition to a siloed web forum at all. But one should not discount the costs of keeping an independent email system working on today's net. It's *not* fun. Thanks, jon ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: It’s time to transform the Fedora devel list into something new
Matthew Miller writes: > On Fri, Apr 21, 2023 at 08:45:31AM -0600, Jonathan Corbet wrote: >> I will just make the point that, when you make this switch, you will be >> missing people as well. Projects that switch to forum systems, to a >> great extent, go dark for people who aren't immersed in them all the >> time. Keeping up with fedora-devel takes very little of my time; >> keeping up with Discourse instances is a much slower affair. > > What could we do to make that easier for you? A decent NNTP feed (or set of feeds) would be wonderful :) Otherwise, I don't know. Invent a decent federated system that keeps the good parts of email while addressing the many bad parts? I guess I should give the Discourse email mode another try. It was painful last time, but it's been a little while and may have improved. But even if it's perfect, dealing with a lot of accounts on project-specific walled gardens is always going to increase the pain level. Perhaps I'm just not made for the world we have built... Thanks, jon ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: It’s time to transform the Fedora devel list into something new
I suppose it's ironically suitable that my first attempt to send the following failed because I wasn't actually subscribed to the list... Matthew Miller writes: > We’re missing people > I will just make the point that, when you make this switch, you will be missing people as well. Projects that switch to forum systems, to a great extend, go dark for people who aren't immersed in them all the time. Keeping up with fedora-devel takes very little of my time; keeping up with Discourse instances is a much slower affair. I know I'm a grumpy old-timer, but I see this move to forum systems as a powerful force putting projects into silos and isolating them from each other. Now get off my lawn, it's time to go watch Lawrence Welk...:) jon ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: Suspend/resume broken on Lenovo laptops (Fedora 21 beta)
On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:53:09 +0100 valent.turko...@gmail.com valent.turko...@gmail.com wrote: Issue was with missing TPM modules! One solution would be to disable TPM in EFI/BIOS and other to install missing kernel-modules-extra package. Jackpot, that was my problem too. The interesting thing is that I noticed that module missing a while ago (mentioned it on -test even), but somehow my attempt to get it in place must have failed; I concluded it wasn't the problem. Silly me. Life is better now, thanks. jon -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: bluez and hci's which initially come up as hid (was Re: Some days it just doesn't pay to update)
On Mon, 05 Sep 2011 19:50:53 +0200 Hans de Goede hdego...@redhat.com wrote: Jonathan, can you give bluez-4.96-3.fc17 a spin? It should fix your mouse + keyboard issue. Will do, but not before the weekend - I forgot to bring the desktop system to LPC :) Thanks for addressing this, jon -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: bluez and hci's which initially come up as hid (was Re: Some days it just doesn't pay to update)
On Fri, 02 Sep 2011 09:18:31 +0200 Hans de Goede hdego...@redhat.com wrote: Which is in essence the problem you are seeing here Jonathan, after my bluez update, your bluetooth dongle is actually being out into HCI mode, so that it can for example also be used to sync with your phone, use a bluetooth headset, etc. IOW this is a feature not a bug but this does mean that in order to use your bluetooth mouse / keyboard, you need to explicitly pair them with the bluetooth HCI once, which will require the use of a regular usb keyboard, which is, erm, not so good, one could even argue this is a bug after all. I guess I would argue that the vast majority of users who get one of these Logitech keyboards simply want a keyboard; they don't really care that they got a general-purpose Bluetooth adapter in the deal. So breaking that by default doesn't necessarily seem like the right idea. That said... This also brings us back to my: I'm really really surprised about the has Just Worked for years bit, since we've been shipping hid2hci + udev rules for years (and this issue has been reported by others long before). ...it sounds like it's maybe been broken in this way for a while? My machine has been riding the Rawhide train for years, it's possible it doesn't correspond to what I'd get if I just dumped F15 onto it. The questions is how do we want to handle this? At least we should release note this I guess, but perhaps we can do something smarter? Perhaps the first thing to do is to try to figure out if it's only me. Nobody else has griped on the Rawhide front, but, then, I think I may be about the only Rawhide user left (and people keep telling me that I shouldn't be there either). If it's only me I'll figure out how to put the keyboard into a mode where it's agreeable to pairing, grumble for a moment, and get on with my life. If others are affected, it would be nice to detect the situation and put up a little warning, preferably on the login screen. Not sure how easy that would be to do. Thanks for the explanation, jon -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Is Rawhide supposed to be useful?
On Tue, 10 May 2011 11:18:54 +1000 Peter Hutterer peter.hutte...@who-t.net wrote: This is my fault, sorry. I updated the server but missed out on rebuilding the drivers. And with one thing leading to another, Easter came, I forgot about it and the above bug didn't show up on my radar until ajax pinged me this morning. So I must confess that this makes me curious. Things breaking in Rawhide are not a surprise; indeed, if it doesn't occasionally bite the hand that's feeding it, somebody probably isn't trying hard enough. But if it can remain this fundamentally broken for weeks because the relevant developer forgot to fix it, it's hard not to conclude that nobody is really running it. Rawhide used to be something we could run to see where the distribution is going and, perhaps, help a little bit with the quality assurance. More recently, I've been told a few times that I should *not* be running Rawhide and that the F15 branch is where the updates and fixes go. It leaves me wondering what Rawhide is for anymore; what value does it bring to Fedora if nobody tries to actually run it for real work? Could it be that Fedora lacks the resources to maintain both Rawhide and the next-release branch? In retrospect, was No Frozen Rawhide as good an idea as it seemed? Thanks, jon -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Is Rawhide supposed to be useful?
On Tue, 10 May 2011 12:04:22 -0400 Adam Jackson a...@redhat.com wrote: Things breaking in Rawhide are not a surprise; indeed, if it doesn't occasionally bite the hand that's feeding it, somebody probably isn't trying hard enough. But if it can remain this fundamentally broken for weeks because the relevant developer forgot to fix it, it's hard not to conclude that nobody is really running it. In the week before F15 change freeze, are you really surprised that nobody's running the F16 dumping ground? I'm not talking about this week. The X11 problem was reported three weeks ago, and the don't run Rawhide advice given to me came rather before that. Rawhide has been an unusually painful place to be for some time now, and a lot of people, I believe, have opted out of it. I'm getting close to doing the same, despite having run Rawhide on my desktop for a *long* time. Your response really just reinforces my concern. What value does the distribution get from a dumping ground? Thanks, jon -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Is Rawhide supposed to be useful?
On Tue, 10 May 2011 13:07:22 -0400 Adam Jackson a...@redhat.com wrote: All we had here was a case where one tool didn't catch a breakage because the other bit of the tools weren't complete enough yet. I don't think that's sufficient cause to question rawhide's existence. The breakage is fine, one expects that. A fundamental breakage that the relevant developers don't even notice for weeks is another question; as I said, that suggests that people running Rawhide are few and far between. I wasn't thinking about just this case, though. Here's some advice I got in March: If you are running rawhide ( what now will become F16 ) expect things to be broken for some time since maintainers wont necessary build/update components for F16 since all the focus is on branched at the moment ( F15 ). [IOW, Rawhide doesn't just break - it also isn't getting fixed.] [...] If you need a usable system I recommend that you stay away from the rawhide train until it hits alpha which is sometime late August if memory serves me correct. (http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.redhat.fedora.testers/1) Even then it occurred to me that, if people are being told to stay away for six months at a time, all is not as well as it should be. Even just waiting from the time of that message until the end of the F15 distraction is two months of down time... Oh well, I was just wondering. I'll stop bugging everybody now. Thanks, jon -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
