Re: Fwd: [Fedora Update] [CRITPATH] [old_testing_critpath] mdadm-3.1.3-0.git20100804.3.fc14
Michal Hlavinka wrote: > I'm getting the same mail for some time now for my critpath security > update. I'm just wondering how long it takes before update reaches > users IMHO, the time it has taken so far is already too long. Stuff gets stuck in the queue literally forever due to this stupid broken policy and FESCo doesn't give a darn. > so I'm not going to beg any proventester for help this time (yet). And as per the above, here's the update, please give this update some karma! https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/libsndfile-1.0.25-1.fc14 This "karma" nonsense just needs to end, yesterday! Kevin Kofler -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fwd: [Fedora Update] [CRITPATH] [old_testing_critpath] mdadm-3.1.3-0.git20100804.3.fc14
On 8/12/2011 3:28 AM, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Thu, 2011-08-11 at 19:40 -0400, Doug Ledford wrote: > >>> I've never got around to working up a coherent proposed modification and >>> submitting it, though - if anyone else can, that'd be great. >> >> I'll just go back to what I've said before. I don't care what system >> you create as long as there is something/someone responsible and >> accountable for getting things unblocked. Right now there is no >> one/thing responsible and accountable for getting things approved and >> you nag the one person who doesn't have the ability to do it. That's >> just flat backwards. > > I'm not sure what kind of a 'you' that was, but it ain't my job, mate ;) A sort of rhetorical 'you' as in whoever fixes the process from where it stands ;-) > - FESCo came up with the current update approval process. Anyone can > propose a change to it, you have as much standing as me (if not more) to > do that. FESCo would have to discuss and approve it. > > The reason why the package maintainer gets nagged has been explained > several times: part of the theory behind the current process is that it > is, to some extent, your responsibility as a package maintainer to > ensure your package gets tested. You can't perform the testing, but it's > reasonably likely that you would be (or, at least, *could* be) in touch > with people who could, and could contact them and encourage them to do > the testing. Theory and practice, especially on n-1 releases, don't seem to match up very well. -- Doug Ledford GPG KeyID: CFBFF194 http://people.redhat.com/dledford Infiniband specific RPMs available at http://people.redhat.com/dledford/Infiniband signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fwd: [Fedora Update] [CRITPATH] [old_testing_critpath] mdadm-3.1.3-0.git20100804.3.fc14
On Fri, 2011-08-12 at 11:30 +0200, Michal Hlavinka wrote: > On 08/10/2011 03:02 PM, Doug Ledford wrote: > > Can we please either disable these nag messages or give developers the > > ability to push a package regardless of testing when it reaches nag age? > > I'm getting the same mail for some time now for my critpath security > update. I'm just wondering how long it takes before update reaches > users, so I'm not going to beg any proventester for help this time (yet). Under the current policy, unless you get the necessary karma, it won't ever get out of updates-testing. There's no timeout, or anything. It'll just sit in updates-testing forever. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fwd: [Fedora Update] [CRITPATH] [old_testing_critpath] mdadm-3.1.3-0.git20100804.3.fc14
On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 5:32 PM, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Wed, 2011-08-10 at 09:02 -0400, Doug Ledford wrote: >> Can we please either disable these nag messages or give developers the >> ability to push a package regardless of testing when it reaches nag age? > > You have that ability for non-critpath updates, but for critpath the > thought is that updates really need to get tested before they go out. > > I've said a few times that I think this could be adjusted for old > releases, on practical grounds. It makes no sense in theory - if > anything, the testing requirements for old releases should be *tighter*, > as there's a greater expectation of stability - but in practice, we just > don't have the test coverage for old releases. Either not many people > run them, or those who do just aren't interested in running > updates-testing and providing feedback. One thing I noticed was with the updates reports is that the old updates disappear off the report so in some cases people aren't even aware they might need testing. It would be good to have an old_testing section so people are actually aware that they need testing. Peter -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fwd: [Fedora Update] [CRITPATH] [old_testing_critpath] mdadm-3.1.3-0.git20100804.3.fc14
On 08/10/2011 03:02 PM, Doug Ledford wrote: > Can we please either disable these nag messages or give developers the > ability to push a package regardless of testing when it reaches nag age? I'm getting the same mail for some time now for my critpath security update. I'm just wondering how long it takes before update reaches users, so I'm not going to beg any proventester for help this time (yet). On 08/12/2011 09:28 AM, Adam Williamson wrote: > - FESCo came up with the current update approval process. Anyone can > propose a change to it, you have as much standing as me (if not more) to > do that. FESCo would have to discuss and approve it. We've seen this flame^Wdiscussion already and my experience says: don't bother with it. Add mail filtering rule to delete this mail. It's more efficient way you can spent your time. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fwd: [Fedora Update] [CRITPATH] [old_testing_critpath] mdadm-3.1.3-0.git20100804.3.fc14
On 08/12/2011 09:40 AM, Kalev Lember wrote: > On 08/12/2011 10:28 AM, Adam Williamson wrote: >> The reason why the package maintainer gets nagged has been explained >> several times: part of the theory behind the current process is that it >> is, to some extent, your responsibility as a package maintainer to >> ensure your package gets tested. You can't perform the testing, but it's >> reasonably likely that you would be (or, at least, *could* be) in touch >> with people who could, and could contact them and encourage them to do >> the testing. > > We could use a little help from Bodhi here: If people were able to sign > up to get notifications for their favourite packages, that might help > get some additional testing done. As it is right now, I am guessing that > people often aren't even aware that an app they would like to test has a > new build available in updates-testing. Perhaps an idea for the new fedora community platform? You could perhaps "like" some packages and receive all related information about them. Don't know if this is possible... Just an idea! Johannes > -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fwd: [Fedora Update] [CRITPATH] [old_testing_critpath] mdadm-3.1.3-0.git20100804.3.fc14
On 08/12/2011 10:28 AM, Adam Williamson wrote: > The reason why the package maintainer gets nagged has been explained > several times: part of the theory behind the current process is that it > is, to some extent, your responsibility as a package maintainer to > ensure your package gets tested. You can't perform the testing, but it's > reasonably likely that you would be (or, at least, *could* be) in touch > with people who could, and could contact them and encourage them to do > the testing. We could use a little help from Bodhi here: If people were able to sign up to get notifications for their favourite packages, that might help get some additional testing done. As it is right now, I am guessing that people often aren't even aware that an app they would like to test has a new build available in updates-testing. -- Kalev -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fwd: [Fedora Update] [CRITPATH] [old_testing_critpath] mdadm-3.1.3-0.git20100804.3.fc14
On Thu, 2011-08-11 at 19:40 -0400, Doug Ledford wrote: > > I've never got around to working up a coherent proposed modification and > > submitting it, though - if anyone else can, that'd be great. > > I'll just go back to what I've said before. I don't care what system > you create as long as there is something/someone responsible and > accountable for getting things unblocked. Right now there is no > one/thing responsible and accountable for getting things approved and > you nag the one person who doesn't have the ability to do it. That's > just flat backwards. I'm not sure what kind of a 'you' that was, but it ain't my job, mate ;) - FESCo came up with the current update approval process. Anyone can propose a change to it, you have as much standing as me (if not more) to do that. FESCo would have to discuss and approve it. The reason why the package maintainer gets nagged has been explained several times: part of the theory behind the current process is that it is, to some extent, your responsibility as a package maintainer to ensure your package gets tested. You can't perform the testing, but it's reasonably likely that you would be (or, at least, *could* be) in touch with people who could, and could contact them and encourage them to do the testing. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fwd: [Fedora Update] [CRITPATH] [old_testing_critpath] mdadm-3.1.3-0.git20100804.3.fc14
On 08/11/2011 05:42 PM, Tom Lane wrote: >> On Wed, 2011-08-10 at 09:02 -0400, Doug Ledford wrote: >>> Can we please either disable these nag messages or give developers the >>> ability to push a package regardless of testing when it reaches nag age? > >> You have that ability for non-critpath updates, but for critpath the >> thought is that updates really need to get tested before they go out. > > I've been procmail'ing old_testing_critpath mail to /dev/null for some > time. It makes no sense to be nagging the one person who cannot, by > definition, provide independent testing of the package. Therefore, they > are useless and not worthy of my time. Auto nagmail to proventesters > might be of some value, but not to the package maintainer. > > regards, tom lane I didn't want to mention that I was thinking of doing the same thing. I thought in the context of this it would sound more like a threat, when in truth it's just the reasonable thing to do given the current situation of being nagged about something I can do nothing about. I will say though that someone triggered an approval on my package after I sent the original email, so at least that was helpful. -- Doug Ledford GPG KeyID: CFBFF194 http://people.redhat.com/dledford Infiniband specific RPMs available at http://people.redhat.com/dledford/Infiniband signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fwd: [Fedora Update] [CRITPATH] [old_testing_critpath] mdadm-3.1.3-0.git20100804.3.fc14
On 08/11/2011 12:32 PM, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Wed, 2011-08-10 at 09:02 -0400, Doug Ledford wrote: >> Can we please either disable these nag messages or give developers the >> ability to push a package regardless of testing when it reaches nag age? > > You have that ability for non-critpath updates, but for critpath the > thought is that updates really need to get tested before they go out. > > I've said a few times that I think this could be adjusted for old > releases, on practical grounds. It makes no sense in theory - if > anything, the testing requirements for old releases should be *tighter*, > as there's a greater expectation of stability - but in practice, we just > don't have the test coverage for old releases. Either not many people > run them, or those who do just aren't interested in running > updates-testing and providing feedback. For stability is why my update was just the addition of two known good patches and not a rebase. But if we don't get test coverage, and a maintainer can't do a limited bugfix release which is typically low risk and well tested, then getting these limited fixes to the people that need them becomes next to impossible. > I've never got around to working up a coherent proposed modification and > submitting it, though - if anyone else can, that'd be great. I'll just go back to what I've said before. I don't care what system you create as long as there is something/someone responsible and accountable for getting things unblocked. Right now there is no one/thing responsible and accountable for getting things approved and you nag the one person who doesn't have the ability to do it. That's just flat backwards. -- Doug Ledford GPG KeyID: CFBFF194 http://people.redhat.com/dledford Infiniband specific RPMs available at http://people.redhat.com/dledford/Infiniband signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fwd: [Fedora Update] [CRITPATH] [old_testing_critpath] mdadm-3.1.3-0.git20100804.3.fc14
> On Wed, 2011-08-10 at 09:02 -0400, Doug Ledford wrote: >> Can we please either disable these nag messages or give developers the >> ability to push a package regardless of testing when it reaches nag age? > You have that ability for non-critpath updates, but for critpath the > thought is that updates really need to get tested before they go out. I've been procmail'ing old_testing_critpath mail to /dev/null for some time. It makes no sense to be nagging the one person who cannot, by definition, provide independent testing of the package. Therefore, they are useless and not worthy of my time. Auto nagmail to proventesters might be of some value, but not to the package maintainer. regards, tom lane -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fwd: [Fedora Update] [CRITPATH] [old_testing_critpath] mdadm-3.1.3-0.git20100804.3.fc14
On Wed, 2011-08-10 at 09:02 -0400, Doug Ledford wrote: > Can we please either disable these nag messages or give developers the > ability to push a package regardless of testing when it reaches nag age? You have that ability for non-critpath updates, but for critpath the thought is that updates really need to get tested before they go out. I've said a few times that I think this could be adjusted for old releases, on practical grounds. It makes no sense in theory - if anything, the testing requirements for old releases should be *tighter*, as there's a greater expectation of stability - but in practice, we just don't have the test coverage for old releases. Either not many people run them, or those who do just aren't interested in running updates-testing and providing feedback. I've never got around to working up a coherent proposed modification and submitting it, though - if anyone else can, that'd be great. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
