Re: Web Assembly on Fedora: interested in a Fedora SIG to work on this?

[Michael Dawson]

To close out on this thread the WASM Sig has been set up and you can join the 
wasm-...@lists.fedoraproject.org mailing list at 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/wasm-sig.lists.fedoraproject.org/ 

Zuzana has also set up an associated Wiki - 
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/WASM

We'll move all associated discussion over to the new mailing list and Wiki 
starting with the minutes/actions from the meeting today.
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Re: Web Assembly on Fedora: interested in a Fedora SIG to work on this?

[Jun Aruga (he / him)]

I am happy to join the group Now. I have a limited time, and more
prioritized tasks in Fedora, but maybe I can help something for the
SIG.

-- 
Jun | He - Him | Timezone: UTC+1 or 2, Czech Republic
See  for
the timezone.
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Re: Web Assembly on Fedora: interested in a Fedora SIG to work on this?

[Michael Dawson]

Just a reminder that we are hoping to have an initial meeting Jan 23 at 4pm UTC 
(9am Pacific, 11am ET, 5pm CET). We picked 11 ET as an attempt to span the 
timezones from Europe and NA.

I've not seen any yes/no in terms of the time working so we'll go ahead with 
the proposed time.

Here as link for a google meet that we can use for the first meeting: 
meet.google.com/vch-jjne-vqt

The proposed initial agenda is:

- Communication channels
- Mailing list
- Slack/IRC/etc ?
- Pagure/Wiki
- Capturing existing work/initiatives
- Known Gaps
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Re: Web Assembly on Fedora: interested in a Fedora SIG to work on this?

[Zuzana Svetlikova]

I opened an issue for a mailing list to be created in case someone wants to
follow/provide feedback.

https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/issue/11087

Zuzka

On Wed, Jan 11, 2023 at 4:34 PM Michael Dawson  wrote:

> It's the new year and we are going to get things going.
>
> Zuzana is going to set up a Wiki page where we can track info and we are
> going to setup an initial meeting to get together to discuss how  we get
> started.
>
> The proposed initial agenda is:
>
> - Communication channels
>   - Mailing list
>   - Slack/IRC/etc ?
>   - Pagure/Wiki
> - Capturing existing work/initiatives
> - Known Gaps
>
> And the proposed time is 23 Jan at 4pm UTC (9am Pacific, 11am ET,  5pm
> CET). We picked 11 ET as an attempt to span the timezones from Europe and
> NA.
>
> Let us know if that works for you and what timezone you are in so that if
> we need to choose a different time we know what timezones we should try to
> allow for.
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Re: Web Assembly on Fedora: interested in a Fedora SIG to work on this?

[Michael Dawson]

It's the new year and we are going to get things going.

Zuzana is going to set up a Wiki page where we can track info and we are going 
to setup an initial meeting to get together to discuss how  we get started.

The proposed initial agenda is:

- Communication channels
  - Mailing list
  - Slack/IRC/etc ?
  - Pagure/Wiki
- Capturing existing work/initiatives
- Known Gaps

And the proposed time is 23 Jan at 4pm UTC (9am Pacific, 11am ET,  5pm CET). We 
picked 11 ET as an attempt to span the timezones from Europe and NA.

Let us know if that works for you and what timezone you are in so that if we 
need to choose a different time we know what timezones we should try to allow 
for. 
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Re: Web Assembly on Fedora: interested in a Fedora SIG to work on this?

[Bryce Nordgren via devel]

I'm interested in following along with this as well. Just learning about 
WebAssembly's potential at the moment. It does seem that a currently missing 
component is to harness fedora's infrastructure to build wasm targets and 
distribute wasm artifacts. Capturing the steps necessary to build and rebuild 
libraries is going to be necessary for automation and keeping current with 
security bugfixes. Distributing those updated artifacts to 
infrastructure-or-parties building packages which rely on them is going to be 
necessary to avoid wasteful duplication of effort.

I just tried to build proj, which failed because it needed sqlite. I found a 
fork of a two-year-old release of sqlite that's been adapted to function in a 
peer to peer network called fluent as well as compile to webassembly. There's 
been 31 releases of sqlite in the interim, many of them during the year that 
the author of the fork was committing bugfixes to the frozen original code. As 
this was an exercise, I quit here because I learned all I needed to. 

I may go a bit further than just saying that such an effort requires the use of 
fedora's existing binary artifact infrastructure. You may need to create a 
centralized place to maintain forks of the upstream repositories which contain 
branches dedicated to the web assembly ports.  The patching strategy currently 
used by rpmbuild may not be enough--I'd expect you'd need a full DVCS hub. 
You'll want something you control that facilitates transferring the web 
assembly support back up to the upstream, hence the "D". 

Please do add me to the list. I may not have time to do much more than think on 
problems, but I'm interested in following your progress. 
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Re: Web Assembly on Fedora: interested in a Fedora SIG to work on this?

[Milad Fa]

I'm also interested.
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Re: Web Assembly on Fedora: interested in a Fedora SIG to work on this?

[Ivan Font]

> As Web Assembly (WASM) gains momentum we’d like to create a SIG as a place to 
> collaborate
> to ensure that Fedora is a great platform to both build and run WASM 
> workloads. This
> includes looking at the toolchains needed to build WASM as a target and the 
> runtimes
> needed to run WASM. It will provide a place to bring together efforts across 
> different
> ecosystems (nodejs, rust, compiler toolchains, etc.) as well as a place where 
> people can
> provide self-help when building and running WASM workloads.
> 
> If you are interested in a WASM Sig please let us know.

I'm interested!
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Re: Web Assembly on Fedora: interested in a Fedora SIG to work on this?

[Philip Rhoades via devel]

Michael,


On 2022-12-03 14:30, Philip Rhoades via devel wrote:

Michael,


On 2022-12-03 05:06, Michael Dawson wrote:

Great to see all the interest so far. Will continue to point people to
this thread to collect those who are interested in being involved and
will look to get the SIG rolling early in the new year.



Excellent! - thanks!



Is there a minimal system I can experiment with at the moment!

Thanks,

Phil.

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Re: Web Assembly on Fedora: interested in a Fedora SIG to work on this?

[Philip Rhoades via devel]

Michael,


On 2022-12-03 05:06, Michael Dawson wrote:

Great to see all the interest so far. Will continue to point people to
this thread to collect those who are interested in being involved and
will look to get the SIG rolling early in the new year.



Excellent! - thanks!

P.
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PO Box 896
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Re: Web Assembly on Fedora: interested in a Fedora SIG to work on this?

[Ivan Font]

> As Web Assembly (WASM) gains momentum we’d like to create a SIG as a place to 
> collaborate
> to ensure that Fedora is a great platform to both build and run WASM 
> workloads. This
> includes looking at the toolchains needed to build WASM as a target and the 
> runtimes
> needed to run WASM. It will provide a place to bring together efforts across 
> different
> ecosystems (nodejs, rust, compiler toolchains, etc.) as well as a place where 
> people can
> provide self-help when building and running WASM workloads.
> 
> If you are interested in a WASM Sig please let us know.

I am interested as well!
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Re: Web Assembly on Fedora: interested in a Fedora SIG to work on this?

[ivan]

> As Web Assembly (WASM) gains momentum we’d like to create a SIG as a place to 
> collaborate
> to ensure that Fedora is a great platform to both build and run WASM 
> workloads. This
> includes looking at the toolchains needed to build WASM as a target and the 
> runtimes
> needed to run WASM. It will provide a place to bring together efforts across 
> different
> ecosystems (nodejs, rust, compiler toolchains, etc.) as well as a place where 
> people can
> provide self-help when building and running WASM workloads.
> 
> If you are interested in a WASM Sig please let us know.

I'm interested!

Ivan
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Re: Web Assembly on Fedora: interested in a Fedora SIG to work on this?

[Ahmed Almeleh]

I'm interested and am keen to learn more about how it all works.

On Fri, 2 Dec 2022 at 18:07, Michael Dawson  wrote:

> Great to see all the interest so far. Will continue to point people to
> this thread to collect those who are interested in being involved and will
> look to get the SIG rolling early in the new year.
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Re: Web Assembly on Fedora: interested in a Fedora SIG to work on this?

[Michael Dawson]

Great to see all the interest so far. Will continue to point people to this 
thread to collect those who are interested in being involved and will look to 
get the SIG rolling early in the new year.
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Re: Web Assembly on Fedora: interested in a Fedora SIG to work on this?

[Jens-Ulrik Petersen]

Just noting that initial wasm support also just got merged upstream for ghc
9.6.

Jens
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Re: Web Assembly on Fedora: interested in a Fedora SIG to work on this?

[Carlos O'Donell]

On 11/18/22 13:41, Michael Dawson wrote:
> As Web Assembly (WASM) gains momentum we’d like to create a SIG as a place to 
> collaborate to ensure that Fedora is a great platform to both build and run 
> WASM workloads. This includes looking at the toolchains needed to build WASM 
> as a target and the runtimes needed to run WASM. It will provide a place to 
> bring together efforts across different ecosystems (nodejs, rust, compiler 
> toolchains, etc.) as well as a place where people can provide self-help when 
> building and running WASM workloads.
> 
> If you are interested in a WASM Sig please let us know.

I'm interested!

-- 
Cheers,
Carlos.
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Re: Web Assembly on Fedora: interested in a Fedora SIG to work on this?

[Philip Rhoades via devel]

Vít,


On 2022-11-28 20:47, Vít Ondruch wrote:

Dne 26. 11. 22 v 1:30 Philip Rhoades via devel napsal(a):

Jun,


On 2022-11-26 03:41, Jun Aruga (he / him) wrote:

The Ruby new version 3.2.0 will start to support Web Assembly. It is
planned to release the official version next month.
https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/news/2022/11/11/ruby-3-2-0-preview3-released/ 
https://github.com/ruby/ruby/blob/master/wasm/README.md



Great news! - I will have a look at that - is there a ruby group with 
a mailing list or forum specifically for this work somewhere?



In the Fedora context, there was WASM discussed as part of this thread:

https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ruby-...@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/FK3XRKUICBS7HFZVEENSEGJ4ZMKCVNWF/



Thanks - interesting stuff . .

P.
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Re: Web Assembly on Fedora: interested in a Fedora SIG to work on this?

[Vít Ondruch]

Dne 26. 11. 22 v 1:30 Philip Rhoades via devel napsal(a):

Jun,


On 2022-11-26 03:41, Jun Aruga (he / him) wrote:

The Ruby new version 3.2.0 will start to support Web Assembly. It is
planned to release the official version next month.
https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/news/2022/11/11/ruby-3-2-0-preview3-released/ 


https://github.com/ruby/ruby/blob/master/wasm/README.md



Great news! - I will have a look at that - is there a ruby group with 
a mailing list or forum specifically for this work somewhere?



In the Fedora context, there was WASM discussed as part of this thread:

https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ruby-...@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/FK3XRKUICBS7HFZVEENSEGJ4ZMKCVNWF/


Vít






However, I had to build the necessary tools such as WASI-SDK and
wasmtime from the source to build Ruby as WebAssembly binaries at that
time.



I am not quite sure of level of difficulty of that but I will have a 
look anyway . .




Though I wrote about the situation on the email thread "Packaging a
cross-compilation environment (wasi-libc)" in the past.
I am looking forward to seeing the thrived RPM packages in the Web
Assembly! Thanks guys!



+1

P.


OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
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Re: Web Assembly on Fedora: interested in a Fedora SIG to work on this?

[Philip Rhoades via devel]

Jun,


On 2022-11-26 03:41, Jun Aruga (he / him) wrote:

The Ruby new version 3.2.0 will start to support Web Assembly. It is
planned to release the official version next month.
https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/news/2022/11/11/ruby-3-2-0-preview3-released/
https://github.com/ruby/ruby/blob/master/wasm/README.md



Great news! - I will have a look at that - is there a ruby group with a 
mailing list or forum specifically for this work somewhere?




However, I had to build the necessary tools such as WASI-SDK and
wasmtime from the source to build Ruby as WebAssembly binaries at that
time.



I am not quite sure of level of difficulty of that but I will have a 
look anyway . .




Though I wrote about the situation on the email thread "Packaging a
cross-compilation environment (wasi-libc)" in the past.
I am looking forward to seeing the thrived RPM packages in the Web
Assembly! Thanks guys!



+1

P.
--
Philip Rhoades

PO Box 896
Cowra  NSW  2794
Australia
E-mail:  p...@pricom.com.au
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Re: Web Assembly on Fedora: interested in a Fedora SIG to work on this?

[Fabio Valentini]

On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 11:13 AM Demi Marie Obenour
 wrote:
>
> IIRC the problematic components were only used in tests and could just
> be stripped.  Could be wrong, though.

They interface definitions are loaded and used to generate Rust code
at build time with "wiggle":
https://github.com/bytecodealliance/wasmtime/tree/main/crates/wasi-common/src/snapshots
So definitely not only used for tests.

Fabio
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Re: Web Assembly on Fedora: interested in a Fedora SIG to work on this?

[Fabio Valentini]

On Fri, Nov 25, 2022 at 5:41 PM Jun Aruga (he / him)  wrote:
>
> The Ruby new version 3.2.0 will start to support Web Assembly. It is
> planned to release the official version next month.
> https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/news/2022/11/11/ruby-3-2-0-preview3-released/
> https://github.com/ruby/ruby/blob/master/wasm/README.md
>
> However, I had to build the necessary tools such as WASI-SDK and
> wasmtime from the source to build Ruby as WebAssembly binaries at that
> time.
> Though I wrote about the situation on the email thread "Packaging a
> cross-compilation environment (wasi-libc)" in the past.
> I am looking forward to seeing the thrived RPM packages in the Web
> Assembly! Thanks guys!

If you're interested in getting wasmtime packaged for Fedora, note
that the unclear license situation of some sub-components (i.e. the
WebAssembly System Interface WITX files) has still not been resolved:

https://github.com/bytecodealliance/wasmtime/issues/3912
https://github.com/WebAssembly/WASI/issues/182

Once these issues are resolved, I'll gladly resume work on packaging
wasmtime for Fedora. We should be able to re-use some of the work that
was already done, before it was abandoned due to the unclear legal
situation regarding these files.

Fabio
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Re: Web Assembly on Fedora: interested in a Fedora SIG to work on this?

[Jun Aruga (he / him)]

The Ruby new version 3.2.0 will start to support Web Assembly. It is
planned to release the official version next month.
https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/news/2022/11/11/ruby-3-2-0-preview3-released/
https://github.com/ruby/ruby/blob/master/wasm/README.md

However, I had to build the necessary tools such as WASI-SDK and
wasmtime from the source to build Ruby as WebAssembly binaries at that
time.
Though I wrote about the situation on the email thread "Packaging a
cross-compilation environment (wasi-libc)" in the past.
I am looking forward to seeing the thrived RPM packages in the Web
Assembly! Thanks guys!

-- 
Jun | He - Him | Timezone: UTC+1 or 2, Czech Republic
See  for
the timezone.
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Re: Web Assembly on Fedora: interested in a Fedora SIG to work on this?

[Michael Dawson]

Thanks to everybody who has responded so far, will be waiting for more
responses as I know many people have been out this week.

On Fri, Nov 18, 2022 at 8:03 PM Philip Rhoades  wrote:

> Michael,
>
>
> On 2022-11-19 05:41, Michael Dawson wrote:
> > As Web Assembly (WASM) gains momentum we’d like to create a SIG as a
> > place to collaborate to ensure that Fedora is a great platform to both
> > build and run WASM workloads. This includes looking at the toolchains
> > needed to build WASM as a target and the runtimes needed to run WASM.
> > It will provide a place to bring together efforts across different
> > ecosystems (nodejs, rust, compiler toolchains, etc.) as well as a
> > place where people can provide self-help when building and running
> > WASM workloads.
> >
> > If you are interested in a WASM Sig please let us know.
>
>
> I am definitely interested in the area both because of Rust but
> particularly because of WASM . . I don't have a huge amount of time
> though unfortunately . .
>
> P.
> --
> Philip Rhoades
>
> PO Box 896
> Cowra  NSW  2794
> Australia
> E-mail:  p...@pricom.com.au
>
>
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Re: Web Assembly on Fedora: interested in a Fedora SIG to work on this?

[Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski]

On Friday, 18 November 2022 at 19:41, Michael Dawson wrote:
> As Web Assembly (WASM) gains momentum we’d like to create a SIG as a
> place to collaborate to ensure that Fedora is a great platform to both
> build and run WASM workloads. This includes looking at the toolchains
> needed to build WASM as a target and the runtimes needed to run WASM.
> It will provide a place to bring together efforts across different
> ecosystems (nodejs, rust, compiler toolchains, etc.) as well as a
> place where people can provide self-help when building and running
> WASM workloads.
> 
> If you are interested in a WASM Sig please let us know.

I maintain binaryen and wabt, but just so that I can build one Firefox
extension completely from source. I'm not interested in WASM per se,
but I would appreciate access to more knowledgeable folks and perhaps
co-maintainers of these two packages. In other words, I don't know
much about WASM, but I got my feet wet, so count me in. :)

Regards,
Dominik
-- 
Fedora   https://getfedora.org  |  RPM Fusion  http://rpmfusion.org
There should be a science of discontent. People need hard times and
oppression to develop psychic muscles.
-- from "Collected Sayings of Muad'Dib" by the Princess Irulan
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Re: Web Assembly on Fedora: interested in a Fedora SIG to work on this?

[Demi Marie Obenour]

On 11/18/22 17:44, Fabio Valentini wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 18, 2022 at 7:41 PM Michael Dawson  wrote:
>>
>> As Web Assembly (WASM) gains momentum we’d like to create a SIG as a place 
>> to collaborate to ensure that Fedora is a great platform to both build and 
>> run WASM workloads. This includes looking at the toolchains needed to build 
>> WASM as a target and the runtimes needed to run WASM. It will provide a 
>> place to bring together efforts across different ecosystems (nodejs, rust, 
>> compiler toolchains, etc.) as well as a place where people can provide 
>> self-help when building and running WASM workloads.
>>
>> If you are interested in a WASM Sig please let us know.
> 
> Speaking from the Rust SIG perspective: The Rust compiler in Fedora
> can already produce working wasm32 binaries if
> rust-std-static-wasm32-unknown-unknown is installed, no other setup
> required.
> 
> Running WASM binaries is a different problem ... earlier this year,
> there was an attempt to package wasmtime (a high-performance WASM
> runtime with support for WASI written in Rust), but this effort was
> ultimately abandoned due to unresolved legal questions (unclear
> license terms of some of its sub-components).
> If these problems could be resolved, having wasmtime in Fedora might
> be a great addition.

IIRC the problematic components were only used in tests and could just
be stripped.  Could be wrong, though.
-- 
Sincerely,
Demi Marie Obenour (she/her/hers)
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Re: Web Assembly on Fedora: interested in a Fedora SIG to work on this?

[Philip Rhoades via devel]

Michael,


On 2022-11-19 05:41, Michael Dawson wrote:

As Web Assembly (WASM) gains momentum we’d like to create a SIG as a
place to collaborate to ensure that Fedora is a great platform to both
build and run WASM workloads. This includes looking at the toolchains
needed to build WASM as a target and the runtimes needed to run WASM.
It will provide a place to bring together efforts across different
ecosystems (nodejs, rust, compiler toolchains, etc.) as well as a
place where people can provide self-help when building and running
WASM workloads.

If you are interested in a WASM Sig please let us know.



I am definitely interested in the area both because of Rust but 
particularly because of WASM . . I don't have a huge amount of time 
though unfortunately . .


P.
--
Philip Rhoades

PO Box 896
Cowra  NSW  2794
Australia
E-mail:  p...@pricom.com.au
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Re: Web Assembly on Fedora: interested in a Fedora SIG to work on this?

[Fabio Valentini]

On Fri, Nov 18, 2022 at 7:41 PM Michael Dawson  wrote:
>
> As Web Assembly (WASM) gains momentum we’d like to create a SIG as a place to 
> collaborate to ensure that Fedora is a great platform to both build and run 
> WASM workloads. This includes looking at the toolchains needed to build WASM 
> as a target and the runtimes needed to run WASM. It will provide a place to 
> bring together efforts across different ecosystems (nodejs, rust, compiler 
> toolchains, etc.) as well as a place where people can provide self-help when 
> building and running WASM workloads.
>
> If you are interested in a WASM Sig please let us know.

Speaking from the Rust SIG perspective: The Rust compiler in Fedora
can already produce working wasm32 binaries if
rust-std-static-wasm32-unknown-unknown is installed, no other setup
required.

Running WASM binaries is a different problem ... earlier this year,
there was an attempt to package wasmtime (a high-performance WASM
runtime with support for WASI written in Rust), but this effort was
ultimately abandoned due to unresolved legal questions (unclear
license terms of some of its sub-components).
If these problems could be resolved, having wasmtime in Fedora might
be a great addition.

Fabio
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