Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On 03/15/2013 12:16 PM, Neal Becker wrote: I don't think users would expect that install of dnf would without asking (or control) automatically run dnf-makecache. At least, this should be controllable via /etc/sysconfig. Further, I think it's not consistent with Fedora practice to enable this on default by installing the package. Hi Neal, hi Thread, This is a legit concern yet majority of people appreciates having the metadata handy and only a minority worries about the traffic. An option should be added to /etc/dnf/dnf.conf to turn this off. The default will stay on. I've opened a bugzilla for this: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=922664 A move to systemd timer units is also in the pipe (there are still some minor issues to settle first) https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=878826 What I would like to see at some point, and strongly believe it is the right, generic and simple solution for many similar cases, is to have NetworkManager let user decide what network connections are suitable for tasks like this (but also many others, including regular backups and other syncing tasks) and which are not: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=896572 Ales -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On 03/15/2013 04:16 PM, Reindl Harald wrote: and hwat let you come to the conclusion that if you have it to enable in a config makes anything different? have it enabled as DEFAULT is plain stupid did you ever see checksu mismatch from YUM? i saw this once download the metadata from ALL known mirrors resultig in some hundret MB traffic over night in background I will consider a quick-to-give-up routes for the automated makecache runs: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=922667 thanks god that i have a) a fast line b) no traffic limit if you pay for traffic over limits such features can ruin you It's not an excuse for DNF or any other application, but bugs and unexpected routes through the download code happen (especially if it's designed not to give up if some partial operation fails). So with expensive connections you are always exposed to this danger as long as you use any software that stays running for long periods of time (or is executed repeatedly like 'dnf makecache') and communicates over the network. Ales -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On 03/15/2013 07:13 PM, Luya Tshimbalanga wrote: On 15/03/13 04:16 AM, Neal Becker wrote: I don't think users would expect that install of dnf would without asking (or control) automatically run dnf-makecache. At least, this should be controllable via /etc/sysconfig. Further, I think it's not consistent with Fedora practice to enable this on default by installing the package. Why not using systemd Calender Time? https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SystemdCalendarTimers There are plans to use the systemd timer services: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=878826 Ales -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On Mon, 2013-03-18 at 09:53 +0100, Ales Kozumplik wrote: What I would like to see at some point, and strongly believe it is the right, generic and simple solution for many similar cases, is to have NetworkManager let user decide what network connections are suitable for tasks like this (but also many others, including regular backups and other syncing tasks) and which are not: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=896572 PackageKit already has an option to check for updates on mobile broadband (i.e bandwidth-capped or pay-as-you-use connections). Can't DNF do the same? The proposed system of targets seems extremely complex, for a functionality that is already possible... -- Mathieu -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On 03/18/2013 10:08 AM, Mathieu Bridon wrote: PackageKit already has an option to check for updates on mobile broadband (i.e bandwidth-capped or pay-as-you-use connections). How does PackageKit implement this? Can't DNF do the same? The proposed system of targets seems extremely complex, for a functionality that is already possible... It is really not that bad, and the quantity of complexity in it is well hidden from everyone but NM and systemd. And it will give more to the users: they will only decide once what connections are available the regular background network tasks and which are not for, for all the applications. Ales -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Ales Kozumplik akozu...@redhat.com wrote: On 03/15/2013 12:16 PM, Neal Becker wrote: I don't think users would expect that install of dnf would without asking (or control) automatically run dnf-makecache. At least, this should be controllable via /etc/sysconfig. Further, I think it's not consistent with Fedora practice to enable this on default by installing the package. Hi Neal, hi Thread, This is a legit concern yet majority of people appreciates having the metadata handy and only a minority worries about the traffic. Downloading the data *every hour* is overkill though. Once a day should be more then enough. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On Mon, 2013-03-18 at 10:21 +0100, Ales Kozumplik wrote: On 03/18/2013 10:08 AM, Mathieu Bridon wrote: PackageKit already has an option to check for updates on mobile broadband (i.e bandwidth-capped or pay-as-you-use connections). How does PackageKit implement this? By using the NM api I guess? Can't DNF do the same? The proposed system of targets seems extremely complex, for a functionality that is already possible... It is really not that bad, and the quantity of complexity in it is well hidden from everyone but NM and systemd. And it will give more to the users: they will only decide once what connections are available the regular background network tasks and which are not for, for all the applications. But applications can already query NM to get details on the state of the connection. -- Mathieu -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
Le lundi 18 mars 2013 à 17:42 +0800, Mathieu Bridon a écrit : Can't DNF do the same? The proposed system of targets seems extremely complex, for a functionality that is already possible... It is really not that bad, and the quantity of complexity in it is well hidden from everyone but NM and systemd. And it will give more to the users: they will only decide once what connections are available the regular background network tasks and which are not for, for all the applications. But applications can already query NM to get details on the state of the connection. But the logic of deciding which is which is likely in pk, not in nm. So implementing it everywhere will requires to duplicate the code and logic. -- Michael Scherer -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On 03/18/2013 10:33 AM, drago01 wrote: On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Ales Kozumplikakozu...@redhat.com wrote: On 03/15/2013 12:16 PM, Neal Becker wrote: I don't think users would expect that install of dnf would without asking (or control) automatically run dnf-makecache. At least, this should be controllable via /etc/sysconfig. Further, I think it's not consistent with Fedora practice to enable this on default by installing the package. Hi Neal, hi Thread, This is a legit concern yet majority of people appreciates having the metadata handy and only a minority worries about the traffic. Downloading the data *every hour* is overkill though. Once a day should be more then enough. Not necessarily, it depends on how quickly are old packages removed from the mirrors, the minimum is not dictated by anyone. The metadata expiry time could be used as the lower bound on this but then there could be repos that have this set to less than an hour for instance. In any case: this value is inspected on every 'dnf makecache' execution so for normal repositories that only expire once a day or so nothing is downloaded 96% of the time. Note that the Fedora update repositories expire every 6 hours. All that said, we shouldn't bother with pathological cases like that and only run the metadata check every six hours or less often. So, basically, you are right. Ales -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On 18 March 2013 09:21, Ales Kozumplik akozu...@redhat.com wrote: How does PackageKit implement this? We ask NetworkManager (or connman) for the network adaptor type. This seems to work well, unless someone uses their phone as a portable hotspot (i.e. Wifi) and then it fails hard. Code is in https://gitorious.org/packagekit/packagekit/trees/master/src -- see pk-network-stack*.[c|h]. Richard -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On 18/03/13 12:39, Richard Hughes wrote: On 18 March 2013 09:21, Ales Kozumplik akozu...@redhat.com wrote: How does PackageKit implement this? We ask NetworkManager (or connman) for the network adaptor type. This seems to work well, unless someone uses their phone as a portable hotspot (i.e. Wifi) and then it fails hard. Code is in https://gitorious.org/packagekit/packagekit/trees/master/src -- see pk-network-stack*.[c|h]. It's all based on an erroneous presumption however, namely that it is only mobile broadband connections which have bandwidth restrictions/costs. A single unit of usage on my VDSL connection is worth 2.5Gb of data during working hours, 50Gb in the evenings or weekends and 1Tb in the early hours of the morning. Not surprisingly therefore I prefer it if updates don't suddenly start downloading during working hours, which is exactly what happened when I upgraded to F18. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
Ralf Corsepius wrote: Unwanted/non-user-intended network access = Must be disabled by default and must explicitly activated by user action. [snip] I for one consider the approach of background updating to be a conceptionally broken and flawed design, lacking generality and usability. The same can really be said for ALL cron jobs. They all run some background task the user didn't ask for and periodically consuming his/her resources, usually when it's the least appropriate. In most cases, the rationale is the same as here: optimizing interactive performance by precomputing things in advance, see e.g. locate (mlocate, and slocate before that) and prelink, which have been the subject of user complaints for years. The only reason the complaints have stopped is because the CPU and I/O abuse of those tasks is no longer that noticeable due to Moore's law, but that also makes me wonder whether prelink is still useful at all. (It also reduces security due to its negative impact on address space randomization, and it's nasty in other ways, e.g. RPM has hacks to unprelink on the fly for verification etc. Are a few microseconds at program startup really worth all that?) As for mlocate, I uninstall that on all my machines, the performance impact is just too big, I just perform a recursive search when I need to find something. Kevin Kofler -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On 03/17/2013 11:13 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote: Ralf Corsepius wrote: Unwanted/non-user-intended network access = Must be disabled by default and must explicitly activated by user action. [snip] I for one consider the approach of background updating to be a conceptionally broken and flawed design, lacking generality and usability. The same can really be said for ALL cron jobs. They all run some background task the user didn't ask for and periodically consuming his/her resources, usually when it's the least appropriate. Depends. I see a substantial difference between a cron-job working locally only and cron-jobs triggering dial-outs, or worse, potentially downloading 100s of MBs. That said, I do not have a problem with local-disk only cron-jobs and the like (updatedb, smartd etc.). The performance regressions cron-jobs may cause are a different matter and IMO, entirely independent problem (They are more an inconvenient nuisance, but they do not cause immediate material harm, like dial-outs can do). Ralf -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On 03/16/2013 06:55 AM, Adam Williamson wrote: On 15/03/13 09:48 PM, Ralf Corsepius wrote: On 03/15/2013 07:51 PM, Adam Williamson wrote: In this case it seems perfectly logical. The thing in question is a cron script. May-be I am missing something, but the issue is not cron-jobs in general, it is unwanted, non-user-intended/initiated network access. You're missing that there are two questions: whether the network-accessing-thing should be on by default, Unwanted/non-user-intended network access = Must be disabled by default and must explicitly activated by user action. and what mechanism should be used for enabling / disabling it. Plenty of possibilities: editing a config file, adding a GUI, moving the cron-stuff into a separate package, removing the cron-stuff and/or redesigning the tool. I for one consider the approach of background updating to be a conceptionally broken and flawed design, lacking generality and usability. I was addressing the second question, not the first. OK Ralf -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On 03/15/2013 05:00 PM, Neal Becker wrote: Almost makes me wonder if a system like that on my android is needed, where it tells me when I install that the app may use services that cost me money. I had an Android phone that did this. However I can't remember if it was the HTC Desire Z / G2 or the Galaxy Nexus, and ultimately I'm thinking that it was likely something the Play store did, not the phone... -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 07:16:27AM -0400, Neal Becker wrote: I don't think users would expect that install of dnf would without asking (or control) automatically run dnf-makecache. Heh. That's one of the things I love about DNF. No longer having to wait a long time for repo downloads when runing 'dnf' because the cron job has already cached it, is great. I wish yum would do this by default too! At least, this should be controllable via /etc/sysconfig. Further, I think it's not consistent with Fedora practice to enable this on default by installing the package. Adding ability to turn it off via /etc/sysconfig seems reasonable, but having it on by default makes the out of the box experiance so much better. Daniel -- |: http://berrange.com -o-http://www.flickr.com/photos/dberrange/ :| |: http://libvirt.org -o- http://virt-manager.org :| |: http://autobuild.org -o- http://search.cpan.org/~danberr/ :| |: http://entangle-photo.org -o- http://live.gnome.org/gtk-vnc :| -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 11:33:24 + Daniel P. Berrange berra...@redhat.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 07:16:27AM -0400, Neal Becker wrote: I don't think users would expect that install of dnf would without asking (or control) automatically run dnf-makecache. Heh. That's one of the things I love about DNF. No longer having to wait a long time for repo downloads when runing 'dnf' because the cron job has already cached it, is great. I wish yum would do this by default too! RFE? -- Regards, Frank http//www.frankly3d.com -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 11:40:59AM +, Frank Murphy wrote: On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 11:33:24 + Daniel P. Berrange berra...@redhat.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 07:16:27AM -0400, Neal Becker wrote: I don't think users would expect that install of dnf would without asking (or control) automatically run dnf-makecache. Heh. That's one of the things I love about DNF. No longer having to wait a long time for repo downloads when runing 'dnf' because the cron job has already cached it, is great. I wish yum would do this by default too! RFE? File one if you like - I don't use yum anymore, preferring DNF because its dep solver is soo much faster. Regards, Daniel -- |: http://berrange.com -o-http://www.flickr.com/photos/dberrange/ :| |: http://libvirt.org -o- http://virt-manager.org :| |: http://autobuild.org -o- http://search.cpan.org/~danberr/ :| |: http://entangle-photo.org -o- http://live.gnome.org/gtk-vnc :| -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
Daniel P. Berrange wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 11:40:59AM +, Frank Murphy wrote: On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 11:33:24 + Daniel P. Berrange berra...@redhat.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 07:16:27AM -0400, Neal Becker wrote: I don't think users would expect that install of dnf would without asking (or control) automatically run dnf-makecache. Heh. That's one of the things I love about DNF. No longer having to wait a long time for repo downloads when runing 'dnf' because the cron job has already cached it, is great. I wish yum would do this by default too! RFE? File one if you like - I don't use yum anymore, preferring DNF because its dep solver is soo much faster. Regards, Daniel You might prefer this, but I think it's against Fedora policy. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On 15/03/13 11:33, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 07:16:27AM -0400, Neal Becker wrote: I don't think users would expect that install of dnf would without asking (or control) automatically run dnf-makecache. Heh. That's one of the things I love about DNF. No longer having to wait a long time for repo downloads when runing 'dnf' because the cron job has already cached it, is great. I wish yum would do this by default too! Well yum does in F18 at least for anybody running PackageKit as it will do the downloads in the background by default. This is of course intensely annoying to anybody with time of day based bandwidth restrictions/charges, especially since it is not well advertised or easy to turn off. A bug complaining about this has now been ignored for nearly two months: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=890070 Note that the settings change is per-user, so if you have multiple desktop users you need to make sure that they all disable downloads... Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 11:33:24 + Daniel P. Berrange berra...@redhat.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 07:16:27AM -0400, Neal Becker wrote: I don't think users would expect that install of dnf would without asking (or control) automatically run dnf-makecache. Heh. That's one of the things I love about DNF. No longer having to wait a long time for repo downloads when runing 'dnf' because the cron job has already cached it, is great. I wish yum would do this by default too! There's a yum-cron package. It did just that for years. that's where dnf got the idea. -sv -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On 03/15/2013 09:55 AM, seth vidal wrote There's a yum-cron package. It did just that for years. that's where dnf got the idea. Yep but defaults matter Rahul -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On 03/15/2013 07:53 AM, Neal Becker wrote: You might prefer this, but I think it's against Fedora policy. Why do you think that? Can you point me to such a policy? Rahul -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 09:55:57AM -0400, seth vidal wrote: On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 11:33:24 + Daniel P. Berrange berra...@redhat.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 07:16:27AM -0400, Neal Becker wrote: I don't think users would expect that install of dnf would without asking (or control) automatically run dnf-makecache. Heh. That's one of the things I love about DNF. No longer having to wait a long time for repo downloads when runing 'dnf' because the cron job has already cached it, is great. I wish yum would do this by default too! There's a yum-cron package. It did just that for years. Users shouldn't have to go searching out that kind of thing in a separate package IMHO, it could just be part of stock yum install. If it needs to be optional a config param would suffice, rather than the big hammer of installing/uninstalling extra RPM to enable/ disable a feature. Daniel -- |: http://berrange.com -o-http://www.flickr.com/photos/dberrange/ :| |: http://libvirt.org -o- http://virt-manager.org :| |: http://autobuild.org -o- http://search.cpan.org/~danberr/ :| |: http://entangle-photo.org -o- http://live.gnome.org/gtk-vnc :| -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 15:11:28 + Daniel P. Berrange berra...@redhat.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 09:55:57AM -0400, seth vidal wrote: On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 11:33:24 + Daniel P. Berrange berra...@redhat.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 07:16:27AM -0400, Neal Becker wrote: I don't think users would expect that install of dnf would without asking (or control) automatically run dnf-makecache. Heh. That's one of the things I love about DNF. No longer having to wait a long time for repo downloads when runing 'dnf' because the cron job has already cached it, is great. I wish yum would do this by default too! There's a yum-cron package. It did just that for years. Users shouldn't have to go searching out that kind of thing in a separate package IMHO, it could just be part of stock yum install. If it needs to be optional a config param would suffice, rather than the big hammer of installing/uninstalling extra RPM to enable/ disable a feature. Go back far enough and it was enabled by default. It was removed from yum when yum was taken in for rhel b/c, iirc, interaction with rhn and then wanting yum-updatesd. I may be misinterpreting your tone in these emails but you sure seem to be somewhat angry about this... I have no idea why, though. this is my last comment on this thread. I'm glad you like the feature in dnf. I'm sure the dnf devels are happy about it too. -sv -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
Am 15.03.2013 12:33, schrieb Daniel P. Berrange: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 07:16:27AM -0400, Neal Becker wrote: I don't think users would expect that install of dnf would without asking (or control) automatically run dnf-makecache. Heh. That's one of the things I love about DNF. No longer having to wait a long time for repo downloads when runing 'dnf' because the cron job has already cached it, is great. I wish yum would do this by default too! as someone said install yum-cron but it is a stupid DEFAULT to do so i saw this mechanism download hundrets of megabytes by wrong chekcsums due mirror upgrades and downloading the metadata from EACH known mirror all night long have fun if you have limited traffic and to pay for! signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
Am 15.03.2013 16:11, schrieb Daniel P. Berrange: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 07:16:27AM -0400, Neal Becker wrote: I don't think users would expect that install of dnf would without asking (or control) automatically run dnf-makecache. Heh. That's one of the things I love about DNF. No longer having to wait a long time for repo downloads when runing 'dnf' because the cron job has already cached it, is great. I wish yum would do this by default too! There's a yum-cron package. It did just that for years. Users shouldn't have to go searching out that kind of thing in a separate package IMHO, it could just be part of stock yum install. If it needs to be optional a config param would suffice, rather than the big hammer of installing/uninstalling extra RPM to enable/ disable a feature. and hwat let you come to the conclusion that if you have it to enable in a config makes anything different? have it enabled as DEFAULT is plain stupid did you ever see checksu mismatch from YUM? i saw this once download the metadata from ALL known mirrors resultig in some hundret MB traffic over night in background thanks god that i have a) a fast line b) no traffic limit if you pay for traffic over limits such features can ruin you signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Daniel P. Berrange berra...@redhat.com wrote: Users shouldn't have to go searching out that kind of thing in a separate package IMHO, it could just be part of stock yum install. If it needs to be optional a config param would suffice, rather than the big hammer of installing/uninstalling extra RPM to enable/ disable a feature. Yeah, we don't generally do configuration by package installation/uninstallation. Mirek -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 10:30 AM, Miloslav Trmač m...@volny.cz wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Daniel P. Berrange berra...@redhat.com wrote: Users shouldn't have to go searching out that kind of thing in a separate package IMHO, it could just be part of stock yum install. If it needs to be optional a config param would suffice, rather than the big hammer of installing/uninstalling extra RPM to enable/ disable a feature. Yeah, we don't generally do configuration by package installation/uninstallation. More to the point, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Starting_services_by_default -J Mirek -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel -- http://cecinestpasunefromage.wordpress.com/ in your fear, seek only peace in your fear, seek only love -d. bowie -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 10:45:03AM -0500, Jon Ciesla wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 10:30 AM, Miloslav Trmač m...@volny.cz wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Daniel P. Berrange berra...@redhat.com wrote: Users shouldn't have to go searching out that kind of thing in a separate package IMHO, it could just be part of stock yum install. If it needs to be optional a config param would suffice, rather than the big hammer of installing/uninstalling extra RPM to enable/ disable a feature. Yeah, we don't generally do configuration by package installation/uninstallation. More to the point, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Starting_services_by_default That's about starting system services by default though, so isn't directly relevant to the question of whether cron jobs are allowed to be enabled by default. Do we have any package docs about cron job enablement ? I couldn't find any in my search attempts. Daniel -- |: http://berrange.com -o-http://www.flickr.com/photos/dberrange/ :| |: http://libvirt.org -o- http://virt-manager.org :| |: http://autobuild.org -o- http://search.cpan.org/~danberr/ :| |: http://entangle-photo.org -o- http://live.gnome.org/gtk-vnc :| -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 10:48 AM, Daniel P. Berrange berra...@redhat.comwrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 10:45:03AM -0500, Jon Ciesla wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 10:30 AM, Miloslav Trmač m...@volny.cz wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Daniel P. Berrange berra...@redhat.com wrote: Users shouldn't have to go searching out that kind of thing in a separate package IMHO, it could just be part of stock yum install. If it needs to be optional a config param would suffice, rather than the big hammer of installing/uninstalling extra RPM to enable/ disable a feature. Yeah, we don't generally do configuration by package installation/uninstallation. More to the point, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Starting_services_by_default That's about starting system services by default though, so isn't directly relevant to the question of whether cron jobs are allowed to be enabled by default. Do we have any package docs about cron job enablement ? I couldn't find any in my search attempts. I guess I always took that to include cron jobs, but you're right, it doesn't explicitly say so. Maybe this needs clarification. -J Daniel -- |: http://berrange.com -o-http://www.flickr.com/photos/dberrange/:| |: http://libvirt.org -o- http://virt-manager.org:| |: http://autobuild.org -o- http://search.cpan.org/~danberr/:| |: http://entangle-photo.org -o- http://live.gnome.org/gtk-vnc:| -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel -- http://cecinestpasunefromage.wordpress.com/ in your fear, seek only peace in your fear, seek only love -d. bowie -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
- Original Message - From: Daniel P. Berrange berra...@redhat.com To: Development discussions related to Fedora devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 11:48:41 AM Subject: Re: dnf installs cron.hourly On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 10:45:03AM -0500, Jon Ciesla wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 10:30 AM, Miloslav Trmač m...@volny.cz wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Daniel P. Berrange berra...@redhat.com wrote: Users shouldn't have to go searching out that kind of thing in a separate package IMHO, it could just be part of stock yum install. If it needs to be optional a config param would suffice, rather than the big hammer of installing/uninstalling extra RPM to enable/ disable a feature. Yeah, we don't generally do configuration by package installation/uninstallation. More to the point, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Starting_services_by_default That's about starting system services by default though, so isn't directly relevant to the question of whether cron jobs are allowed to be enabled by default. Do we have any package docs about cron job enablement ? I couldn't find any in my search attempts. Daniel The list of files sitting in my /etc/cron.*/ directories would certainly indicate that even if there is such a rule it is being ignored. Not that I necessarily have a problem with that given the jobs that are there (mlocate, cups, logrotate, man-db are all examples I don't remember setting up myself). Steve -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 11:58:33 -0400 (EDT) Steve Gordon sgor...@redhat.com wrote: - Original Message - From: Daniel P. Berrange berra...@redhat.com To: Development discussions related to Fedora devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 11:48:41 AM Subject: Re: dnf installs cron.hourly On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 10:45:03AM -0500, Jon Ciesla wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 10:30 AM, Miloslav Trmač m...@volny.cz wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Daniel P. Berrange berra...@redhat.com wrote: Users shouldn't have to go searching out that kind of thing in a separate package IMHO, it could just be part of stock yum install. If it needs to be optional a config param would suffice, rather than the big hammer of installing/uninstalling extra RPM to enable/ disable a feature. Yeah, we don't generally do configuration by package installation/uninstallation. More to the point, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Starting_services_by_default That's about starting system services by default though, so isn't directly relevant to the question of whether cron jobs are allowed to be enabled by default. Do we have any package docs about cron job enablement ? I couldn't find any in my search attempts. Daniel The list of files sitting in my /etc/cron.*/ directories would certainly indicate that even if there is such a rule it is being ignored. Not that I necessarily have a problem with that given the jobs that are there (mlocate, cups, logrotate, man-db are all examples I don't remember setting up myself). To be fair - none of those call out to the network. they all act on things locally. -sv -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
- Original Message - From: seth vidal skvi...@fedoraproject.org To: Development discussions related to Fedora devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Cc: sgor...@redhat.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 12:07:00 PM Subject: Re: dnf installs cron.hourly On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 11:58:33 -0400 (EDT) Steve Gordon sgor...@redhat.com wrote: - Original Message - From: Daniel P. Berrange berra...@redhat.com To: Development discussions related to Fedora devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 11:48:41 AM Subject: Re: dnf installs cron.hourly On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 10:45:03AM -0500, Jon Ciesla wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 10:30 AM, Miloslav Trmač m...@volny.cz wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Daniel P. Berrange berra...@redhat.com wrote: Users shouldn't have to go searching out that kind of thing in a separate package IMHO, it could just be part of stock yum install. If it needs to be optional a config param would suffice, rather than the big hammer of installing/uninstalling extra RPM to enable/ disable a feature. Yeah, we don't generally do configuration by package installation/uninstallation. More to the point, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Starting_services_by_default That's about starting system services by default though, so isn't directly relevant to the question of whether cron jobs are allowed to be enabled by default. Do we have any package docs about cron job enablement ? I couldn't find any in my search attempts. Daniel The list of files sitting in my /etc/cron.*/ directories would certainly indicate that even if there is such a rule it is being ignored. Not that I necessarily have a problem with that given the jobs that are there (mlocate, cups, logrotate, man-db are all examples I don't remember setting up myself). To be fair - none of those call out to the network. they all act on things locally. Right, but the packaging guidelines don't seem to mention whether you should enable cron jobs in packages by default (or not) at all - let alone provide enough detail to specify what types of jobs it's appropriate for. I'd agree with Jon's comment that there is probably some clarification required in the guidelines here. Steve -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 10:55:57AM -0500, Jon Ciesla wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 10:48 AM, Daniel P. Berrange berra...@redhat.comwrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 10:45:03AM -0500, Jon Ciesla wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 10:30 AM, Miloslav Trmač m...@volny.cz wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Daniel P. Berrange berra...@redhat.com wrote: Users shouldn't have to go searching out that kind of thing in a separate package IMHO, it could just be part of stock yum install. If it needs to be optional a config param would suffice, rather than the big hammer of installing/uninstalling extra RPM to enable/ disable a feature. Yeah, we don't generally do configuration by package installation/uninstallation. More to the point, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Starting_services_by_default That's about starting system services by default though, so isn't directly relevant to the question of whether cron jobs are allowed to be enabled by default. Do we have any package docs about cron job enablement ? I couldn't find any in my search attempts. I guess I always took that to include cron jobs, but you're right, it doesn't explicitly say so. Maybe this needs clarification. Yep, I think it would be worth explicitly documenting requirements around cron jobs in the packaging guidelines, if we want to have any rules in this area. Daniel -- |: http://berrange.com -o-http://www.flickr.com/photos/dberrange/ :| |: http://libvirt.org -o- http://virt-manager.org :| |: http://autobuild.org -o- http://search.cpan.org/~danberr/ :| |: http://entangle-photo.org -o- http://live.gnome.org/gtk-vnc :| -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 12:07:00PM -0400, seth vidal wrote: On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 11:58:33 -0400 (EDT) Steve Gordon sgor...@redhat.com wrote: - Original Message - From: Daniel P. Berrange berra...@redhat.com To: Development discussions related to Fedora devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 11:48:41 AM Subject: Re: dnf installs cron.hourly On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 10:45:03AM -0500, Jon Ciesla wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 10:30 AM, Miloslav Trmač m...@volny.cz wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Daniel P. Berrange berra...@redhat.com wrote: Users shouldn't have to go searching out that kind of thing in a separate package IMHO, it could just be part of stock yum install. If it needs to be optional a config param would suffice, rather than the big hammer of installing/uninstalling extra RPM to enable/ disable a feature. Yeah, we don't generally do configuration by package installation/uninstallation. More to the point, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Starting_services_by_default That's about starting system services by default though, so isn't directly relevant to the question of whether cron jobs are allowed to be enabled by default. Do we have any package docs about cron job enablement ? I couldn't find any in my search attempts. Daniel The list of files sitting in my /etc/cron.*/ directories would certainly indicate that even if there is such a rule it is being ignored. Not that I necessarily have a problem with that given the jobs that are there (mlocate, cups, logrotate, man-db are all examples I don't remember setting up myself). To be fair - none of those call out to the network. they all act on things locally. Hmm, but the system service guidelines don't say anything about forbiding use of networking, only that things should not listen on network sockets out of the box. Either way, I think this needs to be clarified in the guidelines. Daniel -- |: http://berrange.com -o-http://www.flickr.com/photos/dberrange/ :| |: http://libvirt.org -o- http://virt-manager.org :| |: http://autobuild.org -o- http://search.cpan.org/~danberr/ :| |: http://entangle-photo.org -o- http://live.gnome.org/gtk-vnc :| -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 5:26 PM, Daniel P. Berrange berra...@redhat.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 12:07:00PM -0400, seth vidal wrote: To be fair - none of those call out to the network. they all act on things locally. Hmm, but the system service guidelines don't say anything about forbiding use of networking, only that things should not listen on network sockets out of the box. Either way, I think this needs to be clarified in the guidelines. The guidelines will never be able to definitely answer every question. I think the basic balance (listening on the network by default is forbidden, enabling services on package installation by default is not required) is correct, and there is a genuine gray zone in between. Perhaps what we need in there is just a list of concerns to be aware of when making the decision (e.g. security/attack surface, metered internet connections, performance impact on the rest of the system). Mirek -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
Rahul Sundaram wrote: On 03/15/2013 07:53 AM, Neal Becker wrote: You might prefer this, but I think it's against Fedora policy. Why do you think that? Can you point me to such a policy? Rahul https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Starting_services_by_default -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On 15/03/13 04:16 AM, Neal Becker wrote: I don't think users would expect that install of dnf would without asking (or control) automatically run dnf-makecache. At least, this should be controllable via /etc/sysconfig. Further, I think it's not consistent with Fedora practice to enable this on default by installing the package. Why not using systemd Calender Time? https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SystemdCalendarTimers -- Luya Tshimbalanga Graphic Web Designer E: l...@fedoraproject.org W: http://www.coolest-storm.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 7:13 PM, Luya Tshimbalanga l...@fedoraproject.org wrote: On 15/03/13 04:16 AM, Neal Becker wrote: I don't think users would expect that install of dnf would without asking (or control) automatically run dnf-makecache. At least, this should be controllable via /etc/sysconfig. Further, I think it's not consistent with Fedora practice to enable this on default by installing the package. Why not using systemd Calender Time? https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SystemdCalendarTimers 1) Changing the mechanism would not resolve any of the questions discussed here. 2) http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2013-February/178220.html: * AGREED: Feature is approved. No packages should convert to using this feature yet. (7, 0, 0) (nirik, 20:26:31) Mirek -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 07:14:39PM +0100, Miloslav Trmač wrote: 1) Changing the mechanism would not resolve any of the questions discussed here. Systemd is a bit cleaner to admin, and turning the service off wouldn't make an oddity show up in rpm -qaV like moving a cron job aside would. 2) http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2013-February/178220.html: * AGREED: Feature is approved. No packages should convert to using this feature yet. (7, 0, 0) (nirik, 20:26:31) Not sure if that applies in this case. It'd be dnf using a systemd feature, not systemd using a dnf feature. --CJD pgpVo2MZBpUXU.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
Daniel P. Berrange wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 12:07:00PM -0400, seth vidal wrote: On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 11:58:33 -0400 (EDT) Steve Gordon sgor...@redhat.com wrote: - Original Message - From: Daniel P. Berrange berra...@redhat.com To: Development discussions related to Fedora devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 11:48:41 AM Subject: Re: dnf installs cron.hourly On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 10:45:03AM -0500, Jon Ciesla wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 10:30 AM, Miloslav Trmač m...@volny.cz wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Daniel P. Berrange berra...@redhat.com wrote: Users shouldn't have to go searching out that kind of thing in a separate package IMHO, it could just be part of stock yum install. If it needs to be optional a config param would suffice, rather than the big hammer of installing/uninstalling extra RPM to enable/ disable a feature. Yeah, we don't generally do configuration by package installation/uninstallation. More to the point, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Starting_services_by_default That's about starting system services by default though, so isn't directly relevant to the question of whether cron jobs are allowed to be enabled by default. Do we have any package docs about cron job enablement ? I couldn't find any in my search attempts. Daniel The list of files sitting in my /etc/cron.*/ directories would certainly indicate that even if there is such a rule it is being ignored. Not that I necessarily have a problem with that given the jobs that are there (mlocate, cups, logrotate, man-db are all examples I don't remember setting up myself). To be fair - none of those call out to the network. they all act on things locally. Hmm, but the system service guidelines don't say anything about forbiding use of networking, only that things should not listen on network sockets out of the box. Either way, I think this needs to be clarified in the guidelines. Daniel That's why in my OP I said I thought it violated Fedora Practice (or common expectations) (not necessarily the letter of the law). There are certainly some in our populations who do not expect that just cause they yum install X, that suddenly it's using their network without warning. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 02:29:19PM -0400, Casey Dahlin wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 07:14:39PM +0100, Miloslav Trmač wrote: 1) Changing the mechanism would not resolve any of the questions discussed here. Systemd is a bit cleaner to admin, and turning the service off wouldn't make an oddity show up in rpm -qaV like moving a cron job aside would. Also, turning periodic job ON during installation would be the matter of preset, like with normal services. Not the matter of packager's mood. There was a decision of not _migrating_ cronjobs to timer units yet. But I think we should ban _introducing_ new cronjobs. Instead, new periodic jobs should be introduced as timer units. -- Tomasz .. oo o. oo o. .o .o o. o. oo o. .. Torcz.. .o .o .o .o oo oo .o .. .. oo oo o.o.o. .o .. o. o. o. o. o. o. oo .. .. o. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On 15/03/13 08:30 AM, Miloslav Trmač wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Daniel P. Berrange berra...@redhat.com wrote: Users shouldn't have to go searching out that kind of thing in a separate package IMHO, it could just be part of stock yum install. If it needs to be optional a config param would suffice, rather than the big hammer of installing/uninstalling extra RPM to enable/ disable a feature. Yeah, we don't generally do configuration by package installation/uninstallation. In this case it seems perfectly logical. The thing in question is a cron script. You want it, install it. You don't want it, don't install it. How would this be implemented with a config parameter in a way which wouldn't be more messy? I mean, wouldn't you have to implement something absurd like a bit of code in yum to read the config value and fiddle with the presence of the cron script? Ew. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On 15/03/13 11:51 AM, Adam Williamson wrote: On 15/03/13 08:30 AM, Miloslav Trmač wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Daniel P. Berrange berra...@redhat.com wrote: Users shouldn't have to go searching out that kind of thing in a separate package IMHO, it could just be part of stock yum install. If it needs to be optional a config param would suffice, rather than the big hammer of installing/uninstalling extra RPM to enable/ disable a feature. Yeah, we don't generally do configuration by package installation/uninstallation. In this case it seems perfectly logical. The thing in question is a cron script. You want it, install it. You don't want it, don't install it. How would this be implemented with a config parameter in a way which wouldn't be more messy? I mean, wouldn't you have to implement something absurd like a bit of code in yum to read the config value and fiddle with the presence of the cron script? Ew. OK, now I think about it, of course the script just checks the config value and exits if it's 'disabled'. Still more Stuff than just a package with the script in it, to my mind, but eh. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 07:44:58PM +0100, Tomasz Torcz wrote: There was a decision of not _migrating_ cronjobs to timer units yet. But I think we should ban _introducing_ new cronjobs. Instead, new periodic jobs should be introduced as timer units. That's assuming all cron jobs should become systemd timer units (Lennart himself has stated systemd timer units don't fully replace cron). --CJD pgpbtQ5fOwcrS.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
Steve Gordon wrote: - Original Message - From: seth vidal skvi...@fedoraproject.org To: Development discussions related to Fedora devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Cc: sgor...@redhat.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 12:07:00 PM Subject: Re: dnf installs cron.hourly On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 11:58:33 -0400 (EDT) Steve Gordon sgor...@redhat.com wrote: - Original Message - From: Daniel P. Berrange berra...@redhat.com To: Development discussions related to Fedora devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 11:48:41 AM Subject: Re: dnf installs cron.hourly On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 10:45:03AM -0500, Jon Ciesla wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 10:30 AM, Miloslav Trmač m...@volny.cz wrote: On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Daniel P. Berrange berra...@redhat.com wrote: Users shouldn't have to go searching out that kind of thing in a separate package IMHO, it could just be part of stock yum install. If it needs to be optional a config param would suffice, rather than the big hammer of installing/uninstalling extra RPM to enable/ disable a feature. Yeah, we don't generally do configuration by package installation/uninstallation. More to the point, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Starting_services_by_default That's about starting system services by default though, so isn't directly relevant to the question of whether cron jobs are allowed to be enabled by default. Do we have any package docs about cron job enablement ? I couldn't find any in my search attempts. Daniel The list of files sitting in my /etc/cron.*/ directories would certainly indicate that even if there is such a rule it is being ignored. Not that I necessarily have a problem with that given the jobs that are there (mlocate, cups, logrotate, man-db are all examples I don't remember setting up myself). To be fair - none of those call out to the network. they all act on things locally. Right, but the packaging guidelines don't seem to mention whether you should enable cron jobs in packages by default (or not) at all - let alone provide enough detail to specify what types of jobs it's appropriate for. I'd agree with Jon's comment that there is probably some clarification required in the guidelines here. Steve Almost makes me wonder if a system like that on my android is needed, where it tells me when I install that the app may use services that cost me money. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: dnf installs cron.hourly
On 03/15/2013 07:51 PM, Adam Williamson wrote: In this case it seems perfectly logical. The thing in question is a cron script. May-be I am missing something, but the issue is not cron-jobs in general, it is unwanted, non-user-intended/initiated network access. Ralf -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
