Re: josm orphaned
On Sun, 2018-03-25 at 19:39 -0300, Ricardo Martinelli Oliveira wrote: > Jakub, > > Can we discuss tomorrow about the package? I'd love to be > co-maintainer since I use josm frequently. Hello, thank you for the interest. I already put together a PR which makes it building and working for me with latest stable release: https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/josm/pull-request/1 I could use a review of the changes, if they make sense for you or there are things to improve/change/do other way. This is my first java package. Feel free to use the Pull request comments to keep it of this (already flooded list). Thanks, Jakub > On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 5:46 PM, Jakub Jelen > wrote: > > Hello, > > I would like take the package, but other co-maintainers are always > > welcomed. I filled the following rel-eng ticket: > > > > https://pagure.io/releng/issue/7409 > > > > Regards, > > Jakub > > ___ > > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org -- Jakub Jelen Software Engineer Security Technologies Red Hat, Inc. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: josm orphaned
Jakub, Can we discuss tomorrow about the package? I'd love to be co-maintainer since I use josm frequently. On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 5:46 PM, Jakub Jelen wrote: > Hello, > I would like take the package, but other co-maintainers are always welcomed. > I filled the following rel-eng ticket: > > https://pagure.io/releng/issue/7409 > > Regards, > Jakub > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: josm orphaned
Hello, I would like take the package, but other co-maintainers are always welcomed. I filled the following rel-eng ticket: https://pagure.io/releng/issue/7409 Regards, Jakub ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: josm orphaned
Dne 22.3.2018 v 19:08 Ricardo Martinelli Oliveira napsal(a): > I never packaged something for Fedora before, but can you give me a > chance to see how is the effort to maintain the package before I adopt > it? This should be good place to start your journey: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join_the_package_collection_maintainers V. > > On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 3:51 AM, Till Maas wrote: >> Hi >> >> I orphaned josm (https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/josm), the java >> openstreetmap editor on request by the original maintainer. Please adopt >> it. It needs to be updated regularly to follow the current openstreetmap >> guidelines, currently it is outdated (also in EPEL). >> >> Kind regards >> Till >> ___ >> devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: josm orphaned, or why are we packaging
On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 01:49:27PM -0400, Przemek Klosowski wrote: > 1. ELF binaries > 2. binary run-time loadable libraries > 3. script files for scripting language environments (java programs >could be arguably placed here) > 4. scripting language libraries > 5. java applets running in the browser > 6. javascript running in the browser > > Clearly, we want to package 1. and 2., and we aren't going to start > packaging 6; there's a big discussion as to what's the right approach for 3 > and 4 (npm, conda, cargo, etc). Actually 6. is also packaged for web applications that we package. Not sure if there are still stand-alone packages for jquery but the code is at least bundled in other packages. > One way of looking at it is that packaging provides an assurance that the > software we're running is the software we think you're running, as opposed > to downloading random binaries and scripts from the internet (curl | > /bin/sh). In this way of thinking, software downloaded from secure > (TLS/https) connections to trusted sites could be considered as good as > packaged---we're doing it to javascript so why not java and other things. One big difference is that Javascript is sandboxed in the browser. Also download code just via https is not as good as it being packaged. With packages you can also rollback to older versions or decide when to upgrade. Also signed packages make sure that everyone gets the same thing because there is only one signed RPM for each NVR which also allows for QA. See for example the NPM bug: http://www.zdnet.com/article/show-stopping-bug-appears-in-npm-node-js-package-manager/ Also there have been instances where upstream downloads were compromised in the past. > The .jnlp file that provides JOSM is essentially an XML file which starts > the java machinery running the OSM-provided java application--I can see how > people could argue that it's no different from maps.google.com starting a > javascript mapping application in your browser. Google maps is not FLOSS and a stand-alone application has still advantages over a web application. So using a java web start application might be as good as using a javascript web app, but a stand-alone application can still be better. For example, is it possible to add a java web start application to the gnome favorites? I guess it is only possible with manually writing a .desktop file. Kind regards Till ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: josm orphaned
I never packaged something for Fedora before, but can you give me a chance to see how is the effort to maintain the package before I adopt it? On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 3:51 AM, Till Maas wrote: > Hi > > I orphaned josm (https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/josm), the java > openstreetmap editor on request by the original maintainer. Please adopt > it. It needs to be updated regularly to follow the current openstreetmap > guidelines, currently it is outdated (also in EPEL). > > Kind regards > Till > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: josm orphaned, or why are we packaging
On 03/22/2018 07:55 AM, Ralf Corsepius wrote: On 03/22/2018 11:32 AM, Matěj Cepl wrote: On 2018-03-22, 06:51 GMT, Till Maas wrote: I orphaned josm (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsrc.fedoraproject.org%2Frpms%2Fjosm&data=02%7C01%7Cprzemek.klosowski%40nist.gov%7C5a0ddf82ead04ced634e08d58fec590f%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636573167871918432&sdata=kw8f8UlpOLMGfl114wNs9CJ%2FiMgo%2FXSbeMLZG%2FmHUaE%3D&reserved=0), the java openstreetmap editor on request by the original maintainer. Please adopt it. It needs to be updated regularly to follow the current openstreetmap guidelines, currently it is outdated (also in EPEL). My experience with JOSM is that this is probably one of the programs which are better not to be packaged (other example: vim plugins). Java Web Start on https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fjosm.openstreetmap.de%2Fdownload%2Fjosm.jnlp&data=02%7C01%7Cprzemek.klosowski%40nist.gov%7C5a0ddf82ead04ced634e08d58fec590f%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C636573167871918432&sdata=G6r7z1UwTvlESHt1KRiXYSj6DKv6Q%2BhRhuK9mamhvxc%3D&reserved=0 works just fine and I don't see the reason why we should bother with packaging it ourselves. The reasons for packaging something up as rpm is security and system integrety/consistency, i.e. not to endanger installations from the (windowish) mindset of "unpackaged" third party stuff. What you say, basically means you are questioning and deny the usefulness of packaging as a whole. The key feature which has made Linux distros great and superior to Windows. I fundamentally agree with Ralph, but I also wanted to point out that the situation is more complicated than it used to be. The executable content is available a spectrum of ways, from most heavyweight to most lightweight 1. ELF binaries 2. binary run-time loadable libraries 3. script files for scripting language environments (java programs could be arguably placed here) 4. scripting language libraries 5. java applets running in the browser 6. javascript running in the browser Clearly, we want to package 1. and 2., and we aren't going to start packaging 6; there's a big discussion as to what's the right approach for 3 and 4 (npm, conda, cargo, etc). My point is that we have to decide where we put the line; what Ralph is saying, and I agree, is we want to push it as far down as practical---but there always be some executable content that doesn't make sense to be packaged. We just need to decide why we're packaging and what are the tradeoffs. One way of looking at it is that packaging provides an assurance that the software we're running is the software we think you're running, as opposed to downloading random binaries and scripts from the internet (curl | /bin/sh). In this way of thinking, software downloaded from secure (TLS/https) connections to trusted sites could be considered as good as packaged---we're doing it to javascript so why not java and other things. The .jnlp file that provides JOSM is essentially an XML file which starts the java machinery running the OSM-provided java application--I can see how people could argue that it's no different from maps.google.com starting a javascript mapping application in your browser. Another criterion could be whether the software installs itself on your system, or is transient, putting the line pretty firmly between 4. and 5. That would push the JOSM into the packaged category. This approach addresses the bitrot aspect---the fact that unpackaged software has a tendency to fall behind and end up with bugs and exploits. I think that we should reflect on such fundamental requirements because they are relevant to how the modularity and container situation develops. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: josm orphaned
Le jeudi 22 mars 2018 à 16:19 +0100, Matěj Cepl a écrit : > On 2018-03-22, 11:55 GMT, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > > What you say, basically means you are questioning and deny the > > usefulness of packaging as a whole. The key feature which has > > made Linux distros great and superior to Windows. > > I understand your point, but I just wonder whether there is > really sense in packaging everything under the sun with our > resources (human ones) are limited. You have strong networks effects, the more you package, the easier it becomes (because you get more already packaged deps, because it makes more upstreams aware of good software engineering practices, because it forces you to solve tooling problems instead of letting them to the next packager, because it attracts more potential packagers, because it creates a baseline other projects can standardise on). On the contrary the less you package, the harder it becomes. Baseline breadth is pretty much why the Linux desktop is so hard to crack and why no one succeeded in creating a new successful Linux distro not based on Debian or Fedora for the last decade. Regards, -- Nicolas Mailhot ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: josm orphaned
On 2018-03-22, 11:55 GMT, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > What you say, basically means you are questioning and deny the > usefulness of packaging as a whole. The key feature which has > made Linux distros great and superior to Windows. I understand your point, but I just wonder whether there is really sense in packaging everything under the sun with our resources (human ones) are limited. Firefox/Thunderbird plugins, vim/emacs ones (do you limit yourself with your $EDITOR just to plugins provided by Fedora in RPMs?), and fast moving Java programs with working Java Web Start, come to mind as things which are not necessary to be packaged. A way less important than things which have to be packaged (e.g., what is our story of Nextcloud on EL6, which is still major server distro?). Best, Matěj -- https://matej.ceplovi.cz/blog/, Jabber: mc...@ceplovi.cz GPG Finger: 3C76 A027 CA45 AD70 98B5 BC1D 7920 5802 880B C9D8 Only two of my personalities are schizophrenic, but one of them is paranoid and the other one is out to get him. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: josm orphaned
On 03/22/2018 11:32 AM, Matěj Cepl wrote: On 2018-03-22, 06:51 GMT, Till Maas wrote: I orphaned josm (https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/josm), the java openstreetmap editor on request by the original maintainer. Please adopt it. It needs to be updated regularly to follow the current openstreetmap guidelines, currently it is outdated (also in EPEL). My experience with JOSM is that this is probably one of the programs which are better not to be packaged (other example: vim plugins). Java Web Start on https://josm.openstreetmap.de/download/josm.jnlp works just fine and I don't see the reason why we should bother with packaging it ourselves. The reasons for packaging something up as rpm is security and system integrety/consistency, i.e. not to endanger installations from the (windowish) mindset of "unpackaged" third party stuff. What you say, basically means you are questioning and deny the usefulness of packaging as a whole. The key feature which has made Linux distros great and superior to Windows. Ralf ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: josm orphaned
On 2018-03-22, 06:51 GMT, Till Maas wrote: > I orphaned josm (https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/josm), the > java openstreetmap editor on request by the original > maintainer. Please adopt it. It needs to be updated regularly > to follow the current openstreetmap guidelines, currently it > is outdated (also in EPEL). My experience with JOSM is that this is probably one of the programs which are better not to be packaged (other example: vim plugins). Java Web Start on https://josm.openstreetmap.de/download/josm.jnlp works just fine and I don't see the reason why we should bother with packaging it ourselves. Best, Matěj -- https://matej.ceplovi.cz/blog/, Jabber: mc...@ceplovi.cz GPG Finger: 3C76 A027 CA45 AD70 98B5 BC1D 7920 5802 880B C9D8 God is not worried about my financial situation. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
josm orphaned
Hi I orphaned josm (https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/josm), the java openstreetmap editor on request by the original maintainer. Please adopt it. It needs to be updated regularly to follow the current openstreetmap guidelines, currently it is outdated (also in EPEL). Kind regards Till ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
