Re: Journal integration for Scratch
You are right. It doesn't work like that, but the filename is quite important to me. It is shown in the Scratch GUI and it is an important marker to find the project, when save and not save as is used. I wouldn't just take the object_id. What do you think John? There is a bug in Scratch version 12. The symbolic link of the Project directory doesn't get created (Open Projects shows Scratch.activity folder instead). I checked the scripts (scratch-activity and scratch-wrapper) but couldn't find where the link should get created. Regards, Philipp Bert Freudenberg wrote: The script looks good, except for the name mangling magic (which is a bit hard to understand because of mis-indentations). This wouldn't even work with your XO's language set to non-English (which the majority of XOs use). I would simply name the file $object_id.sb. - Bert - On 14.01.2009, at 07:04, Philipp Kocher wrote: Hi John Yes, we need the mimetypes.xml file as well (thanks Tomeu I forgot the USB flash drive use case). I have tested the attached mimetypes.xml. It is working fine. Put it in the activity directory. Furthermore we have to change the scratch-activity script, so the parameter with the scratch project object-id gets converted (copy-from-journal) in a file and passed on to scratch. See the attached scratch-activity script. I am not an expert with bash scripts, so please give feedback. I would like to extend the script so project files in the journal directory are copied back to the journal after exiting scratch, but for opening project it should work fine. Best regards, Philipp John Maloney wrote: Hi, Phillip. Thanks for all your hard work in tracking this down. I had looked at several other packages, including EToys, and couldn't figure out from them how to do this. I will make these changes to the next XO Scratch bundle. Is that all I need to do? What about the mime types XML file similar to the one added by Etoys? Does that turn out to be unnecessary? -- John On Jan 13, 2009, at 12:55 AM, Philipp Kocher wrote: Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 18:50, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de wrote: On 12.01.2009, at 18:11, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: So what would the Scratch activity have to do so files put into the Journal (maybe by downloading) are displayed using a Scratch icon rather than the generic document icon? Shipping a mimetypes.xml file inside the bundle as explained here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#Bundle_Structure Sugar will call update-mime-database and will merge that file into the xdg mime database. I think that John is already trying this. Guess I'm confused then - I thought that's exactly what Philipp had done. I think he just changed the mime_types field in the .info file. And I just checked and it does work with Etoys projects. When downloading one it indeed gets an etoys icon (although at a smaller size - why is that?) No idea, though I think that the mime database is updated in the etoys rpm and not in the bundle, am I right? Regards, Tomeu Thanks Tomeu to lead me to the /home/olpc/.local directory. However, the mimetypes.xml is not necessary to get the icon in the journal. I just had to copy the scratch icon file in the activity directory to application-x-scratch-project.svg (also in the scratch activity dirctory). The Memorize Activity is a good example for using that feature. Sugar has to be restarted after installing Scratch to show the icon. John, could you please make the following changes in the next Scratch version: - add the line mime_types = application/x-scratch-project to the activity.info file - copy the scratch icon to application-x-scratch-project.svg in the activity directory Etoys gets configured by different packages. e.g. the rpm etoys-3.0.2153-1.noarch is adding the file /usr/share/mime/packges/etoys.xml and the rpm sugar-artwork-0.82.3-1.olpc3 is adding the file /usr/share/icons/sugar/scalable/mimetypes/application-x-squake-project.svg. Regards, Philipp ?xml version=1.0 encoding=UTF-8? mime-info xmlns=http://www.freedesktop.org/standards/shared-mime-info; mime-type type=application/x-scratch-project commentScratch Project/comment glob pattern=*.sb/ /mime-type /mime-info #!/bin/sh # Author: Bert Freudenberg # Modified by: John Maloney # Purpose: Run Scratch using the Squeak virtual machine echo scratch-activity echo $@ echo $0 $@ echo # arguments are unordered, have to loop args= while [ -n $2 ] ; do case $1 in -b | --bundle-id) bundle_id=$2 ; args=$args BUNDLE_ID $2 ;; -a | --activity-id) activity_id=$2 ; args=$args ACTIVITY_ID $2;; -o | --object-id) object_id=$2 ; args=$args OBJECT_ID $2;; -u | --uri) uri=$2 ; args=$args URI $2;; *) echo unknown argument $1 $2 ;; esac shift;shift done # really need bundle id and
Re: Journal integration for Scratch
Hi, Phillip. Re: There is a bug in Scratch version 12. The symbolic link of the Project directory doesn't get created (Open Projects shows Scratch.activity folder instead). I checked the scripts (scratch-activity and scratch-wrapper) but couldn't find where the link should get created. In Scratch 11, a symbolic link was included in the .xo and unzipping re-created that link. Someone else helped me create that mechanism (sorry I can't quite remember who). But you are right, it no longer works in v12, either because I changed something about my process for creating the .xo file or perhaps because of a change in the XO software (less likely). I will look into this. -- John Regards, Philipp Bert Freudenberg wrote: The script looks good, except for the name mangling magic (which is a bit hard to understand because of mis-indentations). This wouldn't even work with your XO's language set to non-English (which the majority of XOs use). I would simply name the file $object_id.sb. - Bert - On 14.01.2009, at 07:04, Philipp Kocher wrote: Hi John Yes, we need the mimetypes.xml file as well (thanks Tomeu I forgot the USB flash drive use case). I have tested the attached mimetypes.xml. It is working fine. Put it in the activity directory. Furthermore we have to change the scratch-activity script, so the parameter with the scratch project object-id gets converted (copy- from-journal) in a file and passed on to scratch. See the attached scratch-activity script. I am not an expert with bash scripts, so please give feedback. I would like to extend the script so project files in the journal directory are copied back to the journal after exiting scratch, but for opening project it should work fine. Best regards, Philipp John Maloney wrote: Hi, Phillip. Thanks for all your hard work in tracking this down. I had looked at several other packages, including EToys, and couldn't figure out from them how to do this. I will make these changes to the next XO Scratch bundle. Is that all I need to do? What about the mime types XML file similar to the one added by Etoys? Does that turn out to be unnecessary? -- John On Jan 13, 2009, at 12:55 AM, Philipp Kocher wrote: Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 18:50, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de wrote: On 12.01.2009, at 18:11, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: So what would the Scratch activity have to do so files put into the Journal (maybe by downloading) are displayed using a Scratch icon rather than the generic document icon? Shipping a mimetypes.xml file inside the bundle as explained here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#Bundle_Structure Sugar will call update-mime-database and will merge that file into the xdg mime database. I think that John is already trying this. Guess I'm confused then - I thought that's exactly what Philipp had done. I think he just changed the mime_types field in the .info file. And I just checked and it does work with Etoys projects. When downloading one it indeed gets an etoys icon (although at a smaller size - why is that?) No idea, though I think that the mime database is updated in the etoys rpm and not in the bundle, am I right? Regards, Tomeu Thanks Tomeu to lead me to the /home/olpc/.local directory. However, the mimetypes.xml is not necessary to get the icon in the journal. I just had to copy the scratch icon file in the activity directory to application-x-scratch-project.svg (also in the scratch activity dirctory). The Memorize Activity is a good example for using that feature. Sugar has to be restarted after installing Scratch to show the icon. John, could you please make the following changes in the next Scratch version: - add the line mime_types = application/x-scratch-project to the activity.info file - copy the scratch icon to application-x-scratch-project.svg in the activity directory Etoys gets configured by different packages. e.g. the rpm etoys-3.0.2153-1.noarch is adding the file /usr/share/mime/packges/etoys.xml and the rpm sugar- artwork-0.82.3-1.olpc3 is adding the file /usr/share/icons/sugar/scalable/mimetypes/application-x-squake- project.svg. Regards, Philipp ?xml version=1.0 encoding=UTF-8? mime-info xmlns=http://www.freedesktop.org/standards/shared-mime-info mime-type type=application/x-scratch-project commentScratch Project/comment glob pattern=*.sb/ /mime-type /mime-info #!/bin/sh # Author: Bert Freudenberg # Modified by: John Maloney # Purpose: Run Scratch using the Squeak virtual machine echo scratch-activity echo $@ echo $0 $@ echo # arguments are unordered, have to loop args= while [ -n $2 ] ; do case $1 in -b | --bundle-id) bundle_id=$2 ; args=$args BUNDLE_ID $2 ;; -a | --activity-id) activity_id=$2 ; args=$args ACTIVITY_ID $2;; -o | --object-id)
Re: Journal integration for Scratch
On 15.01.2009, at 13:55, John Maloney wrote: Hi, Phillip. Re: There is a bug in Scratch version 12. The symbolic link of the Project directory doesn't get created (Open Projects shows Scratch.activity folder instead). I checked the scripts (scratch-activity and scratch-wrapper) but couldn't find where the link should get created. In Scratch 11, a symbolic link was included in the .xo and unzipping re-created that link. Someone else helped me create that mechanism (sorry I can't quite remember who). But you are right, it no longer works in v12, either because I changed something about my process for creating the .xo file or perhaps because of a change in the XO software (less likely). I will look into this. Unless someone fixed this in the mean time, symbolic links in bundles are not preserved: http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/4584 - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal integration for Scratch
Ahh, that would explain it! Maybe we need a couple of lines of shell script to check for the link and create it if it isn't there. -- John On Jan 15, 2009, at 7:56 AM, Bert Freudenberg wrote: On 15.01.2009, at 13:55, John Maloney wrote: Hi, Phillip. Re: There is a bug in Scratch version 12. The symbolic link of the Project directory doesn't get created (Open Projects shows Scratch.activity folder instead). I checked the scripts (scratch-activity and scratch-wrapper) but couldn't find where the link should get created. In Scratch 11, a symbolic link was included in the .xo and unzipping re-created that link. Someone else helped me create that mechanism (sorry I can't quite remember who). But you are right, it no longer works in v12, either because I changed something about my process for creating the .xo file or perhaps because of a change in the XO software (less likely). I will look into this. Unless someone fixed this in the mean time, symbolic links in bundles are not preserved: http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/4584 - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal integration for Scratch
The script looks good, except for the name mangling magic (which is a bit hard to understand because of mis-indentations). This wouldn't even work with your XO's language set to non-English (which the majority of XOs use). I would simply name the file $object_id.sb. - Bert - On 14.01.2009, at 07:04, Philipp Kocher wrote: Hi John Yes, we need the mimetypes.xml file as well (thanks Tomeu I forgot the USB flash drive use case). I have tested the attached mimetypes.xml. It is working fine. Put it in the activity directory. Furthermore we have to change the scratch-activity script, so the parameter with the scratch project object-id gets converted (copy- from-journal) in a file and passed on to scratch. See the attached scratch-activity script. I am not an expert with bash scripts, so please give feedback. I would like to extend the script so project files in the journal directory are copied back to the journal after exiting scratch, but for opening project it should work fine. Best regards, Philipp John Maloney wrote: Hi, Phillip. Thanks for all your hard work in tracking this down. I had looked at several other packages, including EToys, and couldn't figure out from them how to do this. I will make these changes to the next XO Scratch bundle. Is that all I need to do? What about the mime types XML file similar to the one added by Etoys? Does that turn out to be unnecessary? -- John On Jan 13, 2009, at 12:55 AM, Philipp Kocher wrote: Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 18:50, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de wrote: On 12.01.2009, at 18:11, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: So what would the Scratch activity have to do so files put into the Journal (maybe by downloading) are displayed using a Scratch icon rather than the generic document icon? Shipping a mimetypes.xml file inside the bundle as explained here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#Bundle_Structure Sugar will call update-mime-database and will merge that file into the xdg mime database. I think that John is already trying this. Guess I'm confused then - I thought that's exactly what Philipp had done. I think he just changed the mime_types field in the .info file. And I just checked and it does work with Etoys projects. When downloading one it indeed gets an etoys icon (although at a smaller size - why is that?) No idea, though I think that the mime database is updated in the etoys rpm and not in the bundle, am I right? Regards, Tomeu Thanks Tomeu to lead me to the /home/olpc/.local directory. However, the mimetypes.xml is not necessary to get the icon in the journal. I just had to copy the scratch icon file in the activity directory to application-x-scratch-project.svg (also in the scratch activity dirctory). The Memorize Activity is a good example for using that feature. Sugar has to be restarted after installing Scratch to show the icon. John, could you please make the following changes in the next Scratch version: - add the line mime_types = application/x-scratch-project to the activity.info file - copy the scratch icon to application-x-scratch-project.svg in the activity directory Etoys gets configured by different packages. e.g. the rpm etoys-3.0.2153-1.noarch is adding the file /usr/share/mime/packges/etoys.xml and the rpm sugar- artwork-0.82.3-1.olpc3 is adding the file /usr/share/icons/sugar/scalable/mimetypes/application-x-squake- project.svg. Regards, Philipp ?xml version=1.0 encoding=UTF-8? mime-info xmlns=http://www.freedesktop.org/standards/shared-mime-info mime-type type=application/x-scratch-project commentScratch Project/comment glob pattern=*.sb/ /mime-type /mime-info #!/bin/sh # Author: Bert Freudenberg # Modified by: John Maloney # Purpose: Run Scratch using the Squeak virtual machine echo scratch-activity echo $@ echo $0 $@ echo # arguments are unordered, have to loop args= while [ -n $2 ] ; do case $1 in -b | --bundle-id) bundle_id=$2 ; args=$args BUNDLE_ID $2 ;; -a | --activity-id) activity_id=$2 ; args=$args ACTIVITY_ID $2;; -o | --object-id) object_id=$2 ; args=$args OBJECT_ID $2;; -u | --uri) uri=$2 ; args=$args URI $2;; *) echo unknown argument $1 $2 ;; esac shift;shift done # really need bundle id and activity id if [ -z $bundle_id -o -z $activity_id ] ; then echo ERROR: bundle-id and activity-id arguments required echo Aborting exit 1 fi # some debug output echo launching $bundle_id instance $activity_id [ -n $object_id ] echo with journal obj $object_id [ -n $uri ] echo loading uri $uri echo # do not crash on dbus errors export DBUS_FATAL_WARNINGS=0 if [ -n $object_id ] ; then JOURNAL_DIR=$SUGAR_ACTIVITY_ROOT/data/Journal mkdir -p $JOURNAL_DIR temp_filename=$JOURNAL_DIR/temp.sb
Re: Journal integration for Scratch
On 13.01.2009, at 06:55, Philipp Kocher wrote: Thanks Tomeu to lead me to the /home/olpc/.local directory. However, the mimetypes.xml is not necessary to get the icon in the journal. I just had to copy the scratch icon file in the activity directory to application-x-scratch-project.svg (also in the scratch activity dirctory). The Memorize Activity is a good example for using that feature. Sugar has to be restarted after installing Scratch to show the icon. Thanks! This is not documented anywhere I know of. So I put it here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#Bundle_Structure Hope someone can proof-read / confirm. Etoys gets configured by different packages. e.g. the rpm etoys-3.0.2153-1.noarch is adding the file /usr/share/mime/packges/etoys.xml and the rpm sugar- artwork-0.82.3-1.olpc3 is adding the file /usr/share/icons/sugar/scalable/mimetypes/application-x-squake- project.svg. Interesting ... thanks for the archaeology :) Eben: see, I did remember correctly there was an icon for the document independent of the activity ;) That must be the smaller version. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal integration for Scratch
On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 06:55, Philipp Kocher philipp.koc...@gmx.net wrote: Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 18:50, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de wrote: On 12.01.2009, at 18:11, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: So what would the Scratch activity have to do so files put into the Journal (maybe by downloading) are displayed using a Scratch icon rather than the generic document icon? Shipping a mimetypes.xml file inside the bundle as explained here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#Bundle_Structure Sugar will call update-mime-database and will merge that file into the xdg mime database. I think that John is already trying this. Guess I'm confused then - I thought that's exactly what Philipp had done. I think he just changed the mime_types field in the .info file. And I just checked and it does work with Etoys projects. When downloading one it indeed gets an etoys icon (although at a smaller size - why is that?) No idea, though I think that the mime database is updated in the etoys rpm and not in the bundle, am I right? Regards, Tomeu Thanks Tomeu to lead me to the /home/olpc/.local directory. However, the mimetypes.xml is not necessary to get the icon in the journal. I just had to copy the scratch icon file in the activity directory to application-x-scratch-project.svg (also in the scratch activity dirctory). The Memorize Activity is a good example for using that feature. Sugar has to be restarted after installing Scratch to show the icon. Yes, you are right in that you don't need to mess with mimetypes.xml if you only want to set the icon for a mime type. mimetype.xml also serves to associate a file extension with a mime type, and Scratch might also want this so that scratch projects copied from a removable files are correctly identified as such. Thanks, Tomeu John, could you please make the following changes in the next Scratch version: - add the line mime_types = application/x-scratch-project to the activity.info file - copy the scratch icon to application-x-scratch-project.svg in the activity directory Etoys gets configured by different packages. e.g. the rpm etoys-3.0.2153-1.noarch is adding the file /usr/share/mime/packges/etoys.xml and the rpm sugar-artwork-0.82.3-1.olpc3 is adding the file /usr/share/icons/sugar/scalable/mimetypes/application-x-squake-project.svg. Regards, Philipp ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal integration for Scratch
Hi, Phillip. Thanks for all your hard work in tracking this down. I had looked at several other packages, including EToys, and couldn't figure out from them how to do this. I will make these changes to the next XO Scratch bundle. Is that all I need to do? What about the mime types XML file similar to the one added by Etoys? Does that turn out to be unnecessary? -- John On Jan 13, 2009, at 12:55 AM, Philipp Kocher wrote: Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 18:50, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de wrote: On 12.01.2009, at 18:11, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: So what would the Scratch activity have to do so files put into the Journal (maybe by downloading) are displayed using a Scratch icon rather than the generic document icon? Shipping a mimetypes.xml file inside the bundle as explained here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#Bundle_Structure Sugar will call update-mime-database and will merge that file into the xdg mime database. I think that John is already trying this. Guess I'm confused then - I thought that's exactly what Philipp had done. I think he just changed the mime_types field in the .info file. And I just checked and it does work with Etoys projects. When downloading one it indeed gets an etoys icon (although at a smaller size - why is that?) No idea, though I think that the mime database is updated in the etoys rpm and not in the bundle, am I right? Regards, Tomeu Thanks Tomeu to lead me to the /home/olpc/.local directory. However, the mimetypes.xml is not necessary to get the icon in the journal. I just had to copy the scratch icon file in the activity directory to application-x-scratch-project.svg (also in the scratch activity dirctory). The Memorize Activity is a good example for using that feature. Sugar has to be restarted after installing Scratch to show the icon. John, could you please make the following changes in the next Scratch version: - add the line mime_types = application/x-scratch-project to the activity.info file - copy the scratch icon to application-x-scratch-project.svg in the activity directory Etoys gets configured by different packages. e.g. the rpm etoys-3.0.2153-1.noarch is adding the file /usr/share/mime/packges/etoys.xml and the rpm sugar- artwork-0.82.3-1.olpc3 is adding the file /usr/share/icons/sugar/scalable/mimetypes/application-x-squake- project.svg. Regards, Philipp ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal integration for Scratch
On 13.01.2009, at 13:30, John Maloney wrote: Hi, Phillip. Thanks for all your hard work in tracking this down. I had looked at several other packages, including EToys, and couldn't figure out from them how to do this. I will make these changes to the next XO Scratch bundle. Is that all I need to do? What about the mime types XML file similar to the one added by Etoys? Does that turn out to be unnecessary? That file provides the mapping from file extensions to MIME types, so it is needed for Scratch bundles downloaded from the Web or a USB memory stick to be recognized as such. - Bert - -- John On Jan 13, 2009, at 12:55 AM, Philipp Kocher wrote: Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 18:50, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de wrote: On 12.01.2009, at 18:11, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: So what would the Scratch activity have to do so files put into the Journal (maybe by downloading) are displayed using a Scratch icon rather than the generic document icon? Shipping a mimetypes.xml file inside the bundle as explained here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#Bundle_Structure Sugar will call update-mime-database and will merge that file into the xdg mime database. I think that John is already trying this. Guess I'm confused then - I thought that's exactly what Philipp had done. I think he just changed the mime_types field in the .info file. And I just checked and it does work with Etoys projects. When downloading one it indeed gets an etoys icon (although at a smaller size - why is that?) No idea, though I think that the mime database is updated in the etoys rpm and not in the bundle, am I right? Regards, Tomeu Thanks Tomeu to lead me to the /home/olpc/.local directory. However, the mimetypes.xml is not necessary to get the icon in the journal. I just had to copy the scratch icon file in the activity directory to application-x-scratch-project.svg (also in the scratch activity dirctory). The Memorize Activity is a good example for using that feature. Sugar has to be restarted after installing Scratch to show the icon. John, could you please make the following changes in the next Scratch version: - add the line mime_types = application/x-scratch-project to the activity.info file - copy the scratch icon to application-x-scratch-project.svg in the activity directory Etoys gets configured by different packages. e.g. the rpm etoys-3.0.2153-1.noarch is adding the file /usr/share/mime/packges/etoys.xml and the rpm sugar- artwork-0.82.3-1.olpc3 is adding the file /usr/share/icons/sugar/scalable/mimetypes/application-x-squake- project.svg. Regards, Philipp ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal integration for Scratch
Hi John
Yes, we need the mimetypes.xml file as well (thanks Tomeu I forgot the
USB flash drive use case). I have tested the attached mimetypes.xml. It
is working fine. Put it in the activity directory.
Furthermore we have to change the scratch-activity script, so the
parameter with the scratch project object-id gets converted
(copy-from-journal) in a file and passed on to scratch. See the attached
scratch-activity script. I am not an expert with bash scripts, so please
give feedback.
I would like to extend the script so project files in the journal
directory are copied back to the journal after exiting scratch, but for
opening project it should work fine.
Best regards,
Philipp
John Maloney wrote:
Hi, Phillip.
Thanks for all your hard work in tracking this down. I had looked at
several other packages, including EToys, and couldn't figure out from
them how to do this.
I will make these changes to the next XO Scratch bundle.
Is that all I need to do? What about the mime types XML file similar to
the one added by Etoys? Does that turn out to be unnecessary?
-- John
On Jan 13, 2009, at 12:55 AM, Philipp Kocher wrote:
Tomeu Vizoso wrote:
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 18:50, Bert Freudenberg
b...@freudenbergs.de wrote:
On 12.01.2009, at 18:11, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:
So what would the Scratch activity have to do so files put into the
Journal
(maybe by downloading) are displayed using a Scratch icon rather
than the
generic document icon?
Shipping a mimetypes.xml file inside the bundle as explained here:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#Bundle_Structure
Sugar will call update-mime-database and will merge that file into the
xdg mime database.
I think that John is already trying this.
Guess I'm confused then - I thought that's exactly what Philipp had
done.
I think he just changed the mime_types field in the .info file.
And I just checked and it does work with Etoys projects. When
downloading
one it indeed gets an etoys icon (although at a smaller size - why
is that?)
No idea, though I think that the mime database is updated in the etoys
rpm and not in the bundle, am I right?
Regards,
Tomeu
Thanks Tomeu to lead me to the /home/olpc/.local directory. However, the
mimetypes.xml is not necessary to get the icon in the journal. I just
had to copy the scratch icon file in the activity directory to
application-x-scratch-project.svg (also in the scratch activity
dirctory). The Memorize Activity is a good example for using that
feature.
Sugar has to be restarted after installing Scratch to show the icon.
John, could you please make the following changes in the next Scratch
version:
- add the line mime_types = application/x-scratch-project to the
activity.info file
- copy the scratch icon to application-x-scratch-project.svg in the
activity directory
Etoys gets configured by different packages. e.g. the rpm
etoys-3.0.2153-1.noarch is adding the file
/usr/share/mime/packges/etoys.xml and the rpm
sugar-artwork-0.82.3-1.olpc3 is
adding the file
/usr/share/icons/sugar/scalable/mimetypes/application-x-squake-project.svg.
Regards,
Philipp
?xml version=1.0 encoding=UTF-8?
mime-info xmlns=http://www.freedesktop.org/standards/shared-mime-info;
mime-type type=application/x-scratch-project
commentScratch Project/comment
glob pattern=*.sb/
/mime-type
/mime-info
#!/bin/sh
# Author: Bert Freudenberg
# Modified by: John Maloney
# Purpose: Run Scratch using the Squeak virtual machine
echo scratch-activity
echo $@
echo $0 $@
echo
# arguments are unordered, have to loop
args=
while [ -n $2 ] ; do
case $1 in
-b | --bundle-id) bundle_id=$2 ; args=$args BUNDLE_ID $2 ;;
-a | --activity-id) activity_id=$2 ; args=$args ACTIVITY_ID $2;;
-o | --object-id) object_id=$2 ; args=$args OBJECT_ID $2;;
-u | --uri) uri=$2 ; args=$args URI $2;;
*) echo unknown argument $1 $2 ;;
esac
shift;shift
done
# really need bundle id and activity id
if [ -z $bundle_id -o -z $activity_id ] ; then
echo ERROR: bundle-id and activity-id arguments required
echo Aborting
exit 1
fi
# some debug output
echo launching $bundle_id instance $activity_id
[ -n $object_id ] echo with journal obj $object_id
[ -n $uri ] echo loading uri $uri
echo
# do not crash on dbus errors
export DBUS_FATAL_WARNINGS=0
if [ -n $object_id ] ; then
JOURNAL_DIR=$SUGAR_ACTIVITY_ROOT/data/Journal
mkdir -p $JOURNAL_DIR
temp_filename=$JOURNAL_DIR/temp.sb
title=`copy-from-journal -o $object_id -m $temp_filename | grep
title `
# title is something like this for files downloaded from server:
# title - File do_math_3.sb from
http://schoolserver/Scratch/do_math_3.sb.
# or like this if copied from USB flash drive:
# title - do_math_3
title=${title#*title - } #cut off description
echo title: $title
# workaround for copy-from-journal bug
Re: Journal integration for Scratch
Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 04:50, Philipp Kocher philipp.koc...@gmx.net wrote: Bert Freudenberg wrote: On 18.12.2008, at 08:08, Philipp Kocher wrote: One more thing, the scratch icon is not shown in the journal for files with the scratch mimetype. I think the file /usr/share/sugar/data/mime.defaults has to be adapted to include the scratch-mimetype. It just has to be listed in the activity bundle's info file: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#.info_File_Format - Bert - I added the mime_types attribute to the activities.info file and the icon attribute is set as well. But still the Scratch icon is not shown in the Journal (the default octet-stream icon is shown) even so the Scratch mime-type is set in the metadata file in the datastore. I think the problem is connected to the gtk theme (gtk-update-icon-cache and update-mime-database). e.g. etoys has file etoys.xml in /usr/share/mime/packages and probably the icon in the icon cache. How can I put the icon in the icon-cache? Hi, Sugar will put it there for you when the .xo bundle is installed. That means that if the activity bundle gets installed from outside Sugar, the mime db won't be updated. So, I would recommend you to uninstall Scratch from Sugar, then installing the .xo bundle by downloading it with Browse or by copying it into the journal from an usb stick. HTH, Tomeu Thanks for the input, but I wasn't successful. I tried the following: 1. Extracted the files of Scratch-12.xo 2. Added the line mime_types = application/x-scratch-project to the activity.info file 2. Created a new archive file Scratch-12_mime.xo with the change 3. Erased activity Scratch on the XO 4. Copied the file Scratch-12_mime.xo to the Journal 5. Started/Installed Scratch-12_mime.xo 6. Copied Scratch project to the Journal with copy-to-journal test.sb -m 'application/x-scratch-project' -t test.sb test.sb still has the standard icon and not the Scratch cat icon in the Journal. Which activity is using the mime db update feature? I would expect a new timestamp for the file /usr/share/mime/mime.cache after installing the activity. Can I execute the mime db update on the command line? Regards, Philipp ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal integration for Scratch
[adding sugar-devel to the cc list] On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 09:42, Philipp Kocher philipp.koc...@gmx.net wrote: Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 04:50, Philipp Kocher philipp.koc...@gmx.net wrote: Bert Freudenberg wrote: On 18.12.2008, at 08:08, Philipp Kocher wrote: One more thing, the scratch icon is not shown in the journal for files with the scratch mimetype. I think the file /usr/share/sugar/data/mime.defaults has to be adapted to include the scratch-mimetype. It just has to be listed in the activity bundle's info file: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#.info_File_Format - Bert - I added the mime_types attribute to the activities.info file and the icon attribute is set as well. But still the Scratch icon is not shown in the Journal (the default octet-stream icon is shown) even so the Scratch mime-type is set in the metadata file in the datastore. I think the problem is connected to the gtk theme (gtk-update-icon-cache and update-mime-database). e.g. etoys has file etoys.xml in /usr/share/mime/packages and probably the icon in the icon cache. How can I put the icon in the icon-cache? Hi, Sugar will put it there for you when the .xo bundle is installed. That means that if the activity bundle gets installed from outside Sugar, the mime db won't be updated. So, I would recommend you to uninstall Scratch from Sugar, then installing the .xo bundle by downloading it with Browse or by copying it into the journal from an usb stick. HTH, Tomeu Thanks for the input, but I wasn't successful. I tried the following: 1. Extracted the files of Scratch-12.xo 2. Added the line mime_types = application/x-scratch-project to the activity.info file 2. Created a new archive file Scratch-12_mime.xo with the change 3. Erased activity Scratch on the XO 4. Copied the file Scratch-12_mime.xo to the Journal 5. Started/Installed Scratch-12_mime.xo 6. Copied Scratch project to the Journal with copy-to-journal test.sb -m 'application/x-scratch-project' -t test.sb Ok, what you just did will tell Sugar that Scratch is able to open files with the mime type 'application/x-scratch-project'. But this will not affect the icon of those files. test.sb still has the standard icon and not the Scratch cat icon in the Journal. Which activity is using the mime db update feature? Don't know myself :/ I would expect a new timestamp for the file /usr/share/mime/mime.cache after installing the activity. Well, activities are installed by a normal user so that file won't be modified. Instead, the cache will live in ~/.local/share/mime Can I execute the mime db update on the command line? Yes: update-mime-database ~/.local/share/mime If you want to get the details and fully understand how this is done, you can check this code: http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar-toolkit/repos/mainline/blobs/master/src/sugar/bundle/activitybundle.py#line318 That gets executed when a bundle is unpacked and registered in the shell. As you can see, if a file activity/mimetypes.xml is found in the exploded dir, a symlink will be made to this file form the mime dir and the updater script will be run. HTH, Tomeu ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal integration for Scratch
On 12.01.2009, at 10:16, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: Ok, what you just did will tell Sugar that Scratch is able to open files with the mime type 'application/x-scratch-project'. But this will not affect the icon of those files. Is there a way to assign icons for files other than by saving it in an activity? - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal integration for Scratch
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 16:52, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de wrote: On 12.01.2009, at 10:16, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: Ok, what you just did will tell Sugar that Scratch is able to open files with the mime type 'application/x-scratch-project'. But this will not affect the icon of those files. Is there a way to assign icons for files other than by saving it in an activity? Currently, only by changing the mime-type. Regards, Tomeu ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal integration for Scratch
On 12.01.2009, at 17:03, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 16:52, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de wrote: On 12.01.2009, at 10:16, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: Ok, what you just did will tell Sugar that Scratch is able to open files with the mime type 'application/x-scratch-project'. But this will not affect the icon of those files. Is there a way to assign icons for files other than by saving it in an activity? Currently, only by changing the mime-type. Maybe I misunderstood then. How is the icon for a mime type such as application/x-scratch-project found then? - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal integration for Scratch
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 17:38, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de wrote:
On 12.01.2009, at 17:03, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 16:52, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de
wrote:
On 12.01.2009, at 10:16, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:
Ok, what you just did will tell Sugar that Scratch is able to open
files with the mime type 'application/x-scratch-project'. But this
will not affect the icon of those files.
Is there a way to assign icons for files other than by saving it in an
activity?
Currently, only by changing the mime-type.
Maybe I misunderstood then. How is the icon for a mime type such as
application/x-scratch-project found then?
We are using the xdg mime database, the mimetypes.xml file contained
in activities is added to that database. So that's the mechanism
through which activities can associate icons to mime types.
In a python shell inside strace -e open:
gio.content_type_get_icon('image/png')
open(/home/tomeu/.local/share//mime/mime.cache, O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 3
open(/home/tomeu/sugar-jhbuild/install/share/mime/mime.cache,
O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 3
open(/usr/share/mime/mime.cache, O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 3
open(/usr/local/share//mime/aliases, O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1
ENOENT (No such file or directory)
open(/usr/local/share//mime/subclasses, O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1
ENOENT (No such file or directory)
open(/usr/local/share//mime/icons, O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT
(No such file or directory)
open(/usr/local/share//mime/generic-icons, O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) =
-1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
open(/usr/share//mime/mime.cache, O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 3
open(/usr/share/gdm//mime/aliases, O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT
(No such file or directory)
open(/usr/share/gdm//mime/subclasses, O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1
ENOENT (No such file or directory)
open(/usr/share/gdm//mime/icons, O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT
(No such file or directory)
open(/usr/share/gdm//mime/generic-icons, O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1
ENOENT (No such file or directory)
gio.ThemedIcon at 0xb7de8c84: image-png, gnome-mime-image-png, image-x-generic
Regards,
Tomeu
___
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Devel@lists.laptop.org
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Re: Journal integration for Scratch
On 12.01.2009, at 17:55, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 17:38, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de wrote: On 12.01.2009, at 17:03, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 16:52, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de wrote: On 12.01.2009, at 10:16, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: Ok, what you just did will tell Sugar that Scratch is able to open files with the mime type 'application/x-scratch-project'. But this will not affect the icon of those files. Is there a way to assign icons for files other than by saving it in an activity? Currently, only by changing the mime-type. Maybe I misunderstood then. How is the icon for a mime type such as application/x-scratch-project found then? We are using the xdg mime database, the mimetypes.xml file contained in activities is added to that database. So that's the mechanism through which activities can associate icons to mime types. So what would the Scratch activity have to do so files put into the Journal (maybe by downloading) are displayed using a Scratch icon rather than the generic document icon? - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal integration for Scratch
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 18:07, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de wrote: On 12.01.2009, at 17:55, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 17:38, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de wrote: On 12.01.2009, at 17:03, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 16:52, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de wrote: On 12.01.2009, at 10:16, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: Ok, what you just did will tell Sugar that Scratch is able to open files with the mime type 'application/x-scratch-project'. But this will not affect the icon of those files. Is there a way to assign icons for files other than by saving it in an activity? Currently, only by changing the mime-type. Maybe I misunderstood then. How is the icon for a mime type such as application/x-scratch-project found then? We are using the xdg mime database, the mimetypes.xml file contained in activities is added to that database. So that's the mechanism through which activities can associate icons to mime types. So what would the Scratch activity have to do so files put into the Journal (maybe by downloading) are displayed using a Scratch icon rather than the generic document icon? Shipping a mimetypes.xml file inside the bundle as explained here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#Bundle_Structure Sugar will call update-mime-database and will merge that file into the xdg mime database. I think that John is already trying this. Regards, Tomeu ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal integration for Scratch
On 12.01.2009, at 18:11, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: So what would the Scratch activity have to do so files put into the Journal (maybe by downloading) are displayed using a Scratch icon rather than the generic document icon? Shipping a mimetypes.xml file inside the bundle as explained here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#Bundle_Structure Sugar will call update-mime-database and will merge that file into the xdg mime database. I think that John is already trying this. Guess I'm confused then - I thought that's exactly what Philipp had done. And I just checked and it does work with Etoys projects. When downloading one it indeed gets an etoys icon (although at a smaller size - why is that?) - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal integration for Scratch
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 18:50, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de wrote: On 12.01.2009, at 18:11, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: So what would the Scratch activity have to do so files put into the Journal (maybe by downloading) are displayed using a Scratch icon rather than the generic document icon? Shipping a mimetypes.xml file inside the bundle as explained here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#Bundle_Structure Sugar will call update-mime-database and will merge that file into the xdg mime database. I think that John is already trying this. Guess I'm confused then - I thought that's exactly what Philipp had done. I think he just changed the mime_types field in the .info file. And I just checked and it does work with Etoys projects. When downloading one it indeed gets an etoys icon (although at a smaller size - why is that?) No idea, though I think that the mime database is updated in the etoys rpm and not in the bundle, am I right? Regards, Tomeu ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal integration for Scratch
Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 18:50, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de wrote: On 12.01.2009, at 18:11, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: So what would the Scratch activity have to do so files put into the Journal (maybe by downloading) are displayed using a Scratch icon rather than the generic document icon? Shipping a mimetypes.xml file inside the bundle as explained here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#Bundle_Structure Sugar will call update-mime-database and will merge that file into the xdg mime database. I think that John is already trying this. Guess I'm confused then - I thought that's exactly what Philipp had done. I think he just changed the mime_types field in the .info file. And I just checked and it does work with Etoys projects. When downloading one it indeed gets an etoys icon (although at a smaller size - why is that?) No idea, though I think that the mime database is updated in the etoys rpm and not in the bundle, am I right? Regards, Tomeu Thanks Tomeu to lead me to the /home/olpc/.local directory. However, the mimetypes.xml is not necessary to get the icon in the journal. I just had to copy the scratch icon file in the activity directory to application-x-scratch-project.svg (also in the scratch activity dirctory). The Memorize Activity is a good example for using that feature. Sugar has to be restarted after installing Scratch to show the icon. John, could you please make the following changes in the next Scratch version: - add the line mime_types = application/x-scratch-project to the activity.info file - copy the scratch icon to application-x-scratch-project.svg in the activity directory Etoys gets configured by different packages. e.g. the rpm etoys-3.0.2153-1.noarch is adding the file /usr/share/mime/packges/etoys.xml and the rpm sugar-artwork-0.82.3-1.olpc3 is adding the file /usr/share/icons/sugar/scalable/mimetypes/application-x-squake-project.svg. Regards, Philipp ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal integration for Scratch
On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 04:50, Philipp Kocher philipp.koc...@gmx.net wrote: Bert Freudenberg wrote: On 18.12.2008, at 08:08, Philipp Kocher wrote: One more thing, the scratch icon is not shown in the journal for files with the scratch mimetype. I think the file /usr/share/sugar/data/mime.defaults has to be adapted to include the scratch-mimetype. It just has to be listed in the activity bundle's info file: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#.info_File_Format - Bert - I added the mime_types attribute to the activities.info file and the icon attribute is set as well. But still the Scratch icon is not shown in the Journal (the default octet-stream icon is shown) even so the Scratch mime-type is set in the metadata file in the datastore. I think the problem is connected to the gtk theme (gtk-update-icon-cache and update-mime-database). e.g. etoys has file etoys.xml in /usr/share/mime/packages and probably the icon in the icon cache. How can I put the icon in the icon-cache? Hi, Sugar will put it there for you when the .xo bundle is installed. That means that if the activity bundle gets installed from outside Sugar, the mime db won't be updated. So, I would recommend you to uninstall Scratch from Sugar, then installing the .xo bundle by downloading it with Browse or by copying it into the journal from an usb stick. HTH, Tomeu ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal integration for Scratch
Bert Freudenberg wrote: On 18.12.2008, at 08:08, Philipp Kocher wrote: One more thing, the scratch icon is not shown in the journal for files with the scratch mimetype. I think the file /usr/share/sugar/data/mime.defaults has to be adapted to include the scratch-mimetype. It just has to be listed in the activity bundle's info file: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#.info_File_Format - Bert - I added the mime_types attribute to the activities.info file and the icon attribute is set as well. But still the Scratch icon is not shown in the Journal (the default octet-stream icon is shown) even so the Scratch mime-type is set in the metadata file in the datastore. I think the problem is connected to the gtk theme (gtk-update-icon-cache and update-mime-database). e.g. etoys has file etoys.xml in /usr/share/mime/packages and probably the icon in the icon cache. How can I put the icon in the icon-cache? Regards, Philipp ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal integration for Scratch
Hi John Sorry for the late response. I think to increase the font size in the file dialog is a good idea. As for the thumbnails and project notes, for us an easy way to open and save the projects is more important than to see a thumbnail and project notes (the filename and the date when the project was saved is enough information for us). If the examples and the own projects would be separated (e.g. a button examples) would help as well. It is quite confusing for the students that they can not save their projects in some folders (folder symbols of own folders and example folders look the same, but no write permission for the example folders). TurtleArt has such a solution. Scratch is the favourite Activity at our school, even so it is quite hard for the students to drag and drop the small command icons on the XO with the jumping mouse cursor problem. I am aware that these are all just XO problems and you have to maintain other platforms as well. Thanks for your great support for Scratch on the XO. Thanks, Philipp Pepyride School Cambodia John Maloney wrote: Hi, Phillip. Re: Do you plan a journal integration for scratch? Probably not in the near future. There has been talk about making an API for the Journal that looks more like a file system to application programs. That might be the easiest way to integrate the Journal into Scratch in the long run. Sugar continues to evolve. Earlier versions still allowed access to the file system in a way that made it fairly easy to port applications like Scratch. More recently, with the Rainbow security system, it became much more difficult to use the file system directly. I support Scratch on many different platforms. The XO is an important one due to the educational mission of OLPC. Still, my time is limited and I can only spend so much of it on the XO version of Scratch. Thus, I try to steer a middle path -- create a Scratch port for the XO without changing too much of the Scratch source code. I am hoping that eventually Sugar will make life easier for those porting applications from file-based platforms by providing some sort of virtual file system API. The Journal and the virtual file system could just be two views on the same set of files. Re: At the moment it is not possible to delete scratch projects easily (just in terminal) and our students have difficulty to understand the file and folder structure in the dialog with the very small font. Yes, I see the problem. Your solution sounds like it would work, but the downside is that browsing for existing Scratch projects would be done using the Journal, rather than Scratch's open dialog. That means the user would not see the project thumbnail and project notes. If project deletion is the only issue, my preference would be to add a way to delete projects to the Scratch open and save dialogs. (Although I'm not promising to do that immediately, since we're currently working on the release of Scratch 1.4.) Another solution (which could be more near-term) would be to increase the font size in the file dialog. Do you think that would help? -- John ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal integration for Scratch
On 18.12.2008, at 08:08, Philipp Kocher wrote: One more thing, the scratch icon is not shown in the journal for files with the scratch mimetype. I think the file /usr/share/sugar/data/mime.defaults has to be adapted to include the scratch-mimetype. It just has to be listed in the activity bundle's info file: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#.info_File_Format - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal integration for Scratch
Hi, Phillip. Re: Do you plan a journal integration for scratch? Probably not in the near future. There has been talk about making an API for the Journal that looks more like a file system to application programs. That might be the easiest way to integrate the Journal into Scratch in the long run. Sugar continues to evolve. Earlier versions still allowed access to the file system in a way that made it fairly easy to port applications like Scratch. More recently, with the Rainbow security system, it became much more difficult to use the file system directly. I support Scratch on many different platforms. The XO is an important one due to the educational mission of OLPC. Still, my time is limited and I can only spend so much of it on the XO version of Scratch. Thus, I try to steer a middle path -- create a Scratch port for the XO without changing too much of the Scratch source code. I am hoping that eventually Sugar will make life easier for those porting applications from file-based platforms by providing some sort of virtual file system API. The Journal and the virtual file system could just be two views on the same set of files. Re: At the moment it is not possible to delete scratch projects easily (just in terminal) and our students have difficulty to understand the file and folder structure in the dialog with the very small font. Yes, I see the problem. Your solution sounds like it would work, but the downside is that browsing for existing Scratch projects would be done using the Journal, rather than Scratch's open dialog. That means the user would not see the project thumbnail and project notes. If project deletion is the only issue, my preference would be to add a way to delete projects to the Scratch open and save dialogs. (Although I'm not promising to do that immediately, since we're currently working on the release of Scratch 1.4.) Another solution (which could be more near-term) would be to increase the font size in the file dialog. Do you think that would help? -- John ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal integration for Scratch
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 9:57 AM, John Maloney jmalo...@media.mit.edu wrote: Hi, Phillip. Re: Do you plan a journal integration for scratch? Probably not in the near future. There has been talk about making an API for the Journal that looks more like a file system to application programs. That might be the easiest way to integrate the Journal into Scratch in the long run. Sugar continues to evolve. Earlier versions still allowed access to the file system in a way that made it fairly easy to port applications like Scratch. More recently, with the Rainbow security system, it became much more difficult to use the file system directly. I support Scratch on many different platforms. The XO is an important one due to the educational mission of OLPC. Still, my time is limited and I can only spend so much of it on the XO version of Scratch. Thus, I try to steer a middle path -- create a Scratch port for the XO without changing too much of the Scratch source code. I am hoping that eventually Sugar will make life easier for those porting applications from file-based platforms by providing some sort of virtual file system API. The Journal and the virtual file system could just be two views on the same set of files. Re: At the moment it is not possible to delete scratch projects easily (just in terminal) and our students have difficulty to understand the file and folder structure in the dialog with the very small font. Yes, I see the problem. Your solution sounds like it would work, but the downside is that browsing for existing Scratch projects would be done using the Journal, rather than Scratch's open dialog. That means the user would not see the project thumbnail and project notes. I'm not sure this is the downside. That's one of the benefits. In fact, the Journal itself supports thumbnails and a description field, so a similar experience could be offered there, in a place that's familiar to those using Sugar. - Eben If project deletion is the only issue, my preference would be to add a way to delete projects to the Scratch open and save dialogs. (Although I'm not promising to do that immediately, since we're currently working on the release of Scratch 1.4.) Another solution (which could be more near-term) would be to increase the font size in the file dialog. Do you think that would help? -- John ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal integration for Scratch
On 18.12.2008, at 17:11, Eben Eliason wrote: In fact, the Journal itself supports thumbnails and a description field, so a similar experience could be offered there, in a place that's familiar to those using Sugar. In theory, yes. In practice, you do not get a preview for downloaded files, not even for images. This has been known for ages: http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/2460 Besides, even if all entries had a preview, it is still cumbersome to find anything by preview, because the preview is hidden in the detail view, and there is not even a way to move directly between detail views (next/previous buttons as well as page up/down keys have been discussed but not implemented). Nor is there a way to navigate by keyboard at all in the Journal. Unfortunately usability is not one of the goals in the Sugar roadmap. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal integration for Scratch
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:05 PM, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de wrote: On 18.12.2008, at 17:11, Eben Eliason wrote: In fact, the Journal itself supports thumbnails and a description field, so a similar experience could be offered there, in a place that's familiar to those using Sugar. In theory, yes. In practice, you do not get a preview for downloaded files, not even for images. This has been known for ages: http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/2460 Hmm, that's too bad. Maybe we can get that fixed. Besides, even if all entries had a preview, it is still cumbersome to find anything by preview, because the preview is hidden in the detail view, and there is not even a way to move directly between detail views (next/previous buttons as well as page up/down keys have been That's true. As soon as we have some manpower to put the new Journal design in place, we'll all be far better off here. In addition to improvements to the detail view itself, it will expose thumbnails in browsable views as well. discussed but not implemented). Nor is there a way to navigate by keyboard at all in the Journal. True, and extremely unfortunate. I think we need to keep some accessibility concerns on the short term agenda. Unfortunately usability is not one of the goals in the Sugar roadmap. Your pain is my pain. However, I still feel it necessary to keep everyone's eye on a larger prize. Rather than having every activity solve these problems in a different way, I'd like to convince one or two of the activity devs to help address the core issue so we have a net win for everyone. If the system is broken (and we know it is!) then we should fix it, rather than building numerous workarounds/substitutions. - Eben - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal integration for Scratch
Thanks John! My previous comments weren't meant as an attack against you or Scratch, of course. We know as well as anyone about resource constraints! I just want to keep everyone honest, and make sure that the broader goals for Sugar and the Journal don't get lost while we struggle to figure out how to reach them. I wish I could say the Journal does all of these things wonderfully!, but alas, I can only muster the Journal, as (re)designed, would do all of these things wonderfully! Hopefully we'll get there. - Eben On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:57 PM, John Maloney jmalo...@media.mit.edu wrote: Hi, Eben. Yes, using the Journal would be optimal for XO users, and perhaps we will make Scratch do that in the long run. -- John Re: At the moment it is not possible to delete scratch projects easily (just in terminal) and our students have difficulty to understand the file and folder structure in the dialog with the very small font. Yes, I see the problem. Your solution sounds like it would work, but the downside is that browsing for existing Scratch projects would be done using the Journal, rather than Scratch's open dialog. That means the user would not see the project thumbnail and project notes. I'm not sure this is the downside. That's one of the benefits. In fact, the Journal itself supports thumbnails and a description field, so a similar experience could be offered there, in a place that's familiar to those using Sugar. - Eben ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Journal integration for Scratch
Hi, Eben. Not to worry -- I did not see your email as an attack at all. You were just pointing out the fact that the Journal does support thumbnails and text info. That's a good point. Something as innovative as Sugar simply takes time to mature, and you can't get everything 100% right the first time. You need to have real applications and real users and you need to iterate many, many times. Sugar is still in the rapid-evolution phase of its development. (Even more so for the Journal.) I've been working with the XO for about 18 months now, and over that time the software has made enormous progress. And rapid progress is still being made. I'm sure that things will continue to get easier over the next 18 months -- both for XO users and for those of us porting applications. Keep up the good work! -- John On Dec 18, 2008, at 1:25 PM, Eben Eliason wrote: Thanks John! My previous comments weren't meant as an attack against you or Scratch, of course. We know as well as anyone about resource constraints! I just want to keep everyone honest, and make sure that the broader goals for Sugar and the Journal don't get lost while we struggle to figure out how to reach them. I wish I could say the Journal does all of these things wonderfully!, but alas, I can only muster the Journal, as (re)designed, would do all of these things wonderfully! Hopefully we'll get there. - Eben On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:57 PM, John Maloney jmalo...@media.mit.edu wrote: Hi, Eben. Yes, using the Journal would be optimal for XO users, and perhaps we will make Scratch do that in the long run. -- John Re: At the moment it is not possible to delete scratch projects easily (just in terminal) and our students have difficulty to understand the file and folder structure in the dialog with the very small font. Yes, I see the problem. Your solution sounds like it would work, but the downside is that browsing for existing Scratch projects would be done using the Journal, rather than Scratch's open dialog. That means the user would not see the project thumbnail and project notes. I'm not sure this is the downside. That's one of the benefits. In fact, the Journal itself supports thumbnails and a description field, so a similar experience could be offered there, in a place that's familiar to those using Sugar. - Eben ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
