[freenet-dev] usability testing

[Zero3]

Matthew Toseland skrev:
> On Sunday 14 June 2009 14:24:39 Zero3 wrote:
>> a) On the front page of the website: A "What is Freenet?" teaser linking 
>> to the "What is Freenet?" page would be cool. Confusedly started to read 
>> the news item instead. (She should have spotted the "News" headline, but 
>> I agree on the teaser)
> 
> I think originally the reason for putting news on the main page was that a 
> lot of people check back on the website repeatedly, looking for new stuff 
> (i.e. news) ?:
> 
> I agree we should have some basic explanation and link on the home page 
> though ... I am not quite sure whether just copying the first para from "What 
> is Freenet" as Dieppe has done is sufficient?
> 
> "Freenet is free software which lets you publish and obtain information on 
> the Internet without fear of censorship. To achieve this freedom, the network 
> is entirely decentralized and publishers and consumers of information are 
> anonymous. Without anonymity there can never be true freedom of speech, and 
> without decentralization the network will be vulnerable to attack."
> 
> Followed by a link to learn more, a download link and news.
> 
> Is this sufficiently comprehensible to newbies? I guess so, but it doesn't 
> really answer the question!

I think it's quite good actually! I think "Without anonymity there can 
never be true freedom of speech") is a bit subjective though.

>> b) FUD alert on the "What is Freenet?" page:
>>
>> "Freenet does not let the user control what is stored in the data store. 
>> [...] Files in the data store are encrypted to reduce the likelihood of 
>> prosecution by persons wishing to censor Freenet content."
>>
>> (Agreed. We are scaring some people away before they even reach the 
>> download page. I don't think we should hide the facts, but rather give a 
>> reasoned explanation for the ways Freenet do things.)
> 
> I guess there is a language issue here yeah...
> 
> How about this? (deployed):
> 
> 'Users contribute to the network by giving bandwidth and a portion of their 
> hard drive (called the "data store") for storing files. Files are 
> automatically kept or deleted depending on how popular they are, with the 
> least popular being discarded to make way for newer or more popular content. 
> Files are encrypted, so generally the user cannot easily discover what is in 
> his datastore, and hopefully can't be held accountable for it.'

Much better, yeah.

>> c) On the "Philosophy" page: More focus on what Freenet actually *can 
>> do* for citizens living under censorship and the like. 
> 
> Isn't that what "What is Freenet?" is about?

Well, yeah, except it doesn't really say anything about it on that page 
either.

>> d) FUD alert on the "Download" page:
>>
>> "Anti-virus software: Severe problems have been reported with Kaspersky, 
>> and other firewalls and antivirus software may also break Freenet's 
>> installation. Having said that, we do NOT recommend that you turn off 
>> your antivirus software on a Windows system; if installation doesn't 
>> work, please contact us and we will try to find out what is wrong."
>>
>> (TBH we haven't had "severe problems", and we don't know for sure if 
>> Kaspersky was the fault (although it looks like it was). And we are only 
>> talking about a single incident here - not "and other firewalls and 
>> antivirus software may also".)
> 
> The problems were severe. However, it is true that other firewalls and 
> anti-virus software may not cause such problems. I have removed the warning.

His Freenet installation broke, But his system wasn't harmed in anyway. 
Hopefully this will be resolved by switching to using a non-custom user 
account for the service. It would still be cool with a contact who can 
reproduce this though.

>> e) On the "Download page": No idea what a "node reference" is. (Could be 
>> rephrased or explained better)
> 
> That's why it's in quotes, and the "Add a friend" page does explain it. Do 
> you have any suggestion as to how to improve the wording?

Perhaps add a paranthesis explaining the term?

>> Very annoying to be asked to install a second  
>> browser. In this case, a third (using FF with IE as backup. And user is 
>> asked not to use IE). More FUD about history leaks. 
> 
> FUD stands for Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. Unfortunately, the warnings about 
> browser history stealing are factually true. Perhaps there is an argument for 
> not naming such attacks if this intimidates people? Is the problem with IE 
> important? There are possibilities for working around it, there has never 
> been much enthusiasm for implementing them (even from ian who tends to be 
> usability oriented).

Exactly. The user is fears the consequences of history leaks and is 
uncertain what he ought to do, and thereby doubts his security and 
privacy using Freenet.

IMHO we are exaggerating with this warning page.

Dunno about IE? Is version 7/8 "secure enough"?

>> No idea what a  
>> "browser profile" is. 
> 
> 

[freenet-dev] Non-english windows users: does it pick up your language or do you need to set it?

[bo-le]

Am Dienstag, 16. Juni 2009 21:40:53 schrieb Zero3:
> Matthew Toseland skrev:
> > On Sunday 14 June 2009 13:11:40 Zero3 wrote:
> >> Matthew Toseland skrev:
> >>> Does the new windows installer set up Freenet to use the correct
> >>> language? Obviously it asks you, but after that does the node use the
> >>> correct language? And does it pick up the system locale in the first
> >>> place? IIRC the language selection isn't very obvious?
> >>
> >> Yes, it does! I just mentioned this in another reply to you about the
> >> language IDs?
> >>
> >> Upon loading, the Windows installer automatically pre-selects the
> >> correct translation according to the OS locale. If no match is found, it
> >> falls back to English. The language box is located at the top of the
> >> main GUI as in this screenshot:
> >>
> >> http://privat.zero3.dk/FreenetInstaller_Snapshot.png
> >>
> >> When the user selects another language from the drop-down box, the GUI
> >> is immediately translated into that language. I don't think it can be
> >> much more simple and intuitive than that.
> >>
> >> This value is also passed on to the node via "node.l10n=Deutsch"
> >> (example for German) in freenet.ini. (I don't think that specifying a
> >> language by the localized name is ideal, but that seems to be how the
> >> node wants it. I *did* ask if this could be changed to standardized
> >> language IDs a while ago...)
> >
> > IIRC both work.
>
> Which kind of IDs does it accept? I'd really like to switch over to that
> instead.
freenet.l10n.L10n.java shows you the strings:
/** @see "http://www.omniglot.com/language/names.htm; */
public enum LANGUAGE {
ENGLISH("en", "English", "eng"),
SPANISH("es", "Espa?ol", "spa"),
DANISH("da", "Dansk", "dan"),
GERMAN("de", "Deutsch", "deu"),
FINNISH("fi", "Suomi", "fin"),
FRENCH("fr", "Fran?ais", "fra"),
ITALIAN("it", "Italiano", "ita"),
NORWEGIAN("no", "Norsk", "nor"),
POLISH("pl", "Polski", "pol"),
SWEDISH("se", "Svenska", "svk"),
CHINESE("zh-cn", "??(??)", "chn"),
CHINESE_TAIWAN("zh-tw", "??(??)", "zh-tw"),
UNLISTED("unlisted", "unlisted", "unlisted");

any string listed here can be used.

> - Zero3
> ___
> Devl mailing list
> Devl at freenetproject.org
> http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

[freenet-dev] About the website

[Arne Babenhauserheide]

Am Dienstag, 16. Juni 2009 19:52:32 schrieb Matthew Toseland:
> Okay. The homepage now says:
> ' Freenet is free software which lets you anonymously share files, browse
> and publish web sites, and chat on forums, without fear of censorship.
> Users are anonymous, and Freenet is entirely decentralised. Without
> anonymity there can never be true freedom of speech, and without
> decentralisation the network would be vulnerable to attack. Learn more!

The last part shouldn't be in negative form, I think. Her's an alternative: 

"Its anonymity gives you true freedom of speech and its decentralization makes 
it resistant against attacks."

Also I wouldn't use a "," before "and chat on forums (it breaks the text 
flow). 

How about this: 

' Freenet is free software which lets you anonymously share files, chat on 
forums and browse and publish web sites without fear of censorship. Users are 
anonymous, and Freenet is entirely decentralised. Through anonymity it gives 
you true freedom of speech and its decentralization makes it resistant against 
attacks. Learn more!'


Best wishes, 
Arne

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Ein Mann wird auf der Stra?e mit einem Messer bedroht. 
Zwei Polizisten sind sofort da und halten ein Transparent davor. 

"Illegale Szene. Niemand darf das sehen."

Der Mann wird ausgeraubt, erstochen und verblutet, 
denn die Polizisten haben beide H?nde voll zu tun. 

Willkommen in Deutschland. Zensur ist sch?n. 
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---


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[freenet-dev] Beta of Windows tray icon + update.cmd updating

[Juiceman]

On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 7:53 PM, Matthew
Toseland wrote:
> On Wednesday 17 June 2009 00:48:44 Juiceman wrote:
>> On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 7:16 PM, Matthew
>> Toseland wrote:
>> > On Tuesday 16 June 2009 23:16:58 Zero3 wrote:
>> >> I've successfully (I think?) branched the master branch of
>> >> wininstaller-staging at github to a new beta branch. This branch now
>> >> contains the upcoming Windows tray icon.
>> >>
>> >> Please feel free to test. Even small fixes like spelling and grammar is
>> >> more than welcome (because mine suck ;)).
>> >>
>> >> Source: http://github.com/freenet/wininstaller-staging/tree/beta
>> >> Binary: http://privat.zero3.dk/FreenetInstaller_Beta.exe (old jars,
>> >> seednodes, translations and so on. Not meant for anything but testing)
>> >
>> > Cool!
>> >>
>> >> The update.cmd script will soon need to support the updating of various
>> >> helper executables, most importantly freenetlauncher.exe, but if
>> >> possible, all of them.
>> >
>> > Ok.
>> >>
>> >> (Are these on the website somewhere yet Matthew? Along with a plan of
>> >> how they are kept up-to-date...)
>> >>
>> >> If update.cmd tries to update bin\freenettray.exe, it should first do
>> >> something like:
>> >>
>> >> taskkill /IM freenettray.exe
>> >> if not errorlevel 1 
>> >>
>> >> (... as we can't update running Windows executables)
>> >
>> > https://checksums.freenetproject.org/cc/[filename]
>> > for filename in:
>> > wrapper-windows-x86-32.exe wrapper-windows-x86-32.dll start.exe stop.exe 
>> > freenetlauncher.exe
>>
>> It would be great if we could see the directory listing when we access
>> https://checksums.freenetproject.org/cc/ is this possible?
>>
>> How do you suggest we check for newer versions of the files?
>> Downloading them all and then comparing is a waste of bandwidth... I
>> could compare the .sha1 of the files if those exist. ?That would be
>> minuscule bandwidth.
>>
>> I propose to start checking freenet-ext.jar this way, saving almost 4mb per 
>> run.
>
> Yes, that is exactly how it is supposed to work. Furthermore, checking the 
> .sha1 over HTTPS is a good thing in terms of security. So please go for it!

I can't tell for sure because directory listing is denied on that
folder of the website, but I don't think the .sha1 files for the
downloads are in https://checksums.freenetproject.org/cc/

[freenet-dev] Non-english windows users: does it pick up your language or do you need to set it?

[Zero3]

Matthew Toseland skrev:
> On Sunday 14 June 2009 13:11:40 Zero3 wrote:
>> Matthew Toseland skrev:
>>> Does the new windows installer set up Freenet to use the correct language? 
>>> Obviously it asks you, but after that does the node use the correct 
>>> language? And does it pick up the system locale in the first place? IIRC 
>>> the language selection isn't very obvious?
>> Yes, it does! I just mentioned this in another reply to you about the 
>> language IDs?
>>
>> Upon loading, the Windows installer automatically pre-selects the 
>> correct translation according to the OS locale. If no match is found, it 
>> falls back to English. The language box is located at the top of the 
>> main GUI as in this screenshot:
>>
>> http://privat.zero3.dk/FreenetInstaller_Snapshot.png
>>
>> When the user selects another language from the drop-down box, the GUI 
>> is immediately translated into that language. I don't think it can be 
>> much more simple and intuitive than that.
>>
>> This value is also passed on to the node via "node.l10n=Deutsch" 
>> (example for German) in freenet.ini. (I don't think that specifying a 
>> language by the localized name is ideal, but that seems to be how the 
>> node wants it. I *did* ask if this could be changed to standardized 
>> language IDs a while ago...)
> 
> IIRC both work.

Which kind of IDs does it accept? I'd really like to switch over to that 
instead.

- Zero3

[freenet-dev] About the website

[Matthew Toseland]

sites, but hosted on Freenet)".  The current version sounds somewhat
> like you could browse the normal web with Freenet.  Given that some
> new users are familiar with TOR, they may be expecting something like
> it; best not to feed those assumptions.

Okay:

 Freenet is free software which lets you anonymously share files, browse and 
publish "freesites" (web sites accessible only through Freenet), and chat on 
forums, without fear of censorship. Users are anonymous, and Freenet is 
entirely decentralised. Without anonymity there can never be true freedom of 
speech, and without decentralisation the network would be vulnerable to attack.

Learn more! 

(Note these are separate 's, IMHO emphasising "learn more" is good).
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[freenet-dev] Good screenshots needed

[Ian Clarke]

I've been doing quite a bit of work in my day job with people who have
done a vast amount of testing of the effectiveness of different
website designs.

If I were to condense what I've learned into a single caveman
sentence, it would be:

  "Big dense blocks of text: BAD, Pictures: GOOD"

Screenshots are important, when I want to get a sense of a piece of
software one of the first things I look for is a screenshot.

Ian.

-- 
Ian Clarke
CEO, Uprizer Labs
Email: ian at uprizer.com
Ph: +1 512 422 3588
Fax: +1 512 276 6674

[freenet-dev] The new blue gradient website background

[Ian Clarke]

We desperately need someone to take ownership of the website, and
particularly its design.  This person doesn't need to be Pablo
Picasso, but they do need some aesthetic sensibilities.

Any volunteers?

Ian.

On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 7:06 PM, Daniel Cheng 
wrote:
> Just a quick notes:
>
> Blue Gradient background won't work, because:
>
> ? ? -- BLUE have low contrast with the black text
>
> ? ? -- our rabbit logo is blue, even lower contrast
>
> ? ? -- the website ian suggested ( getfirefox/ jquery)
> ? ? ? ?and other well-design webpage does NOT
> ? ? ? ?use gradient as _text_ background AT ALL..
> ___
> Devl mailing list
> Devl at freenetproject.org
> http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>



-- 
Ian Clarke
CEO, Uprizer Labs
Email: ian at uprizer.com
Ph: +1 512 422 3588
Fax: +1 512 276 6674

[freenet-dev] Bulk vs realtime transfer flag

[Matthew Toseland]

ieve requires token  
> passing...
> 
> 
> 
> While I agree with the bulk/realtime flag (link-level), I do think  
> that your solution is going down the wrong path... basically  
> reduplicating an implementation that the performance of which is  
> already questionable. I believe what you are trying to mend is the  
> perceived user experience, which I believe rests squarely on the  
> "ethernet-ness" of requests being accepted or rejected. Tokens (or...  
> assurance of a request not being rejected), lets us implement fair  
> queueing; and if implemented right could include your idea of multiple  
> target transfer times.

Fair queueing or unfair queueing?

Data transfer can be and in fact is implemented fairly already. Queueing of 
requests is the interesting part, and is closely related to token passing.
> 
> I have little doubt that creating a second-but-tighter-window would  
> not greatly effect the end-user experience. With the ethernet-effect,  
> and accepting fewer requests (by design). The user would simply have a  
> smaller chance but that the page would more quickly appear. Rather  
> than having 10% succeeding in 90 seconds, we might have 1% succeeding  
> in 20 seconds. Thus making the perceived benefit (what you are really  
> trying to solve) likely further away.

I don't see why. The vast majority of requests are bulk downloads, which would 
be classed as bulk requests; these need throughput. Fproxy browsing on the 
other hand, needs low latency. No?
> 
> I suggest a move to 'request-tokens', be it explicit token granting/ 
> passing or somehow implicit. This would also let us move forward with  
> any kind of load balancing.

I agree that we should move to token passing, but it is a fairly large project 
and we have agreed not to implement any major changes without simulations, and 
none of our theorists is able to simulate it at the moment. And we have other 
big changes planned for 0.8. So token passing is an important feature for 0.9, 
not 0.8, IMHO.
> 
> I have an incomplete sketch of how I think this should work. While  
> simple in theory (arguably simpler than the current system), this  
> would require a partial rewrite of the load/bandwidth system.  
> Basically a single request-granting thread which would 'bless' peers  
> in a round-robin fashion; skipping peers which already have full token  
> buckets, are over there bandwidth throttle, etc.
> 
> The primary concern I presently have is the case of peers which are  
> rigged to not grant request tokens. For this I was thinking that a  
> successful request would 'automatically' earn you a request token  
> (implicit/token not passed?). Not sure... and that leads to the  
> question of how the node sets the maximum bucket size of a node (the  
> number of allowable concurrent requests), which could be a constant or  
> tend to be less towards 'leaf' nodes.

Yes, this is something like I have been thinking for token passing.
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[freenet-dev] Beta of Windows tray icon + update.cmd updating

[Juiceman]

On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 7:16 PM, Matthew
Toseland wrote:
> On Tuesday 16 June 2009 23:16:58 Zero3 wrote:
>> I've successfully (I think?) branched the master branch of
>> wininstaller-staging at github to a new beta branch. This branch now
>> contains the upcoming Windows tray icon.
>>
>> Please feel free to test. Even small fixes like spelling and grammar is
>> more than welcome (because mine suck ;)).
>>
>> Source: http://github.com/freenet/wininstaller-staging/tree/beta
>> Binary: http://privat.zero3.dk/FreenetInstaller_Beta.exe (old jars,
>> seednodes, translations and so on. Not meant for anything but testing)
>
> Cool!
>>
>> The update.cmd script will soon need to support the updating of various
>> helper executables, most importantly freenetlauncher.exe, but if
>> possible, all of them.
>
> Ok.
>>
>> (Are these on the website somewhere yet Matthew? Along with a plan of
>> how they are kept up-to-date...)
>>
>> If update.cmd tries to update bin\freenettray.exe, it should first do
>> something like:
>>
>> taskkill /IM freenettray.exe
>> if not errorlevel 1 
>>
>> (... as we can't update running Windows executables)
>
> https://checksums.freenetproject.org/cc/[filename]
> for filename in:
> wrapper-windows-x86-32.exe wrapper-windows-x86-32.dll start.exe stop.exe 
> freenetlauncher.exe

It would be great if we could see the directory listing when we access
https://checksums.freenetproject.org/cc/ is this possible?

How do you suggest we check for newer versions of the files?
Downloading them all and then comparing is a waste of bandwidth... I
could compare the .sha1 of the files if those exist.  That would be
minuscule bandwidth.

I propose to start checking freenet-ext.jar this way, saving almost 4mb per run.

> Tag the wininstaller, and tell me, when you want them updating.
>
> ___
> Devl mailing list
> Devl at freenetproject.org
> http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>



-- 
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the
death, your right to say it. - Voltaire
Those who would give up Liberty, to purchase temporary Safety, deserve
neither Liberty nor Safety. - Ben Franklin

[freenet-dev] usability testing

[Matthew Toseland]

gh the wizard: 

Is there an implication here that it is too long? Any suggestions as to what to 
take out? Taking a big chunk of the user's disk space and bandwidth without 
asking used to lose us quite a few users. Making assumptions about security is 
likely to cause problems for those few users that do need it... I have 
considered getting rid of the welcome page at the beginning that allows you to 
not use the wizard...

> Big read warning about connecting to the network. (Agreed. Since this is 
> to be expected, we shouldn't display a big, fat, red warning box. This 
> makes users go FUD and think they did something wrong or something is 
> broken. Make it a big, fat infobox instad.

What big red warning? "The node is trying to connect to the network, it will be 
slow for a while." ??? How is this FUD? Users don't read, and have unrealistic 
expectations, so it is IMHO essential to tell them, while we have less than 10 
peers, that Freenet may be slow for a while. Several times when I have done 
test installs this hasn't even shown up since it has reached 10 peers before 
showing the browse page!
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[freenet-dev] Good screenshots needed

[Evan Daniel]

On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 7:26 PM, Matthew
Toseland wrote:
> We need some (3?) screenshots. These must be legal, look reasonably good both 
> in full and when thumbnailed to a reasonable size so we can put them on the 
> homepage.
>
> Alternatively, please explain why it would be bad to replace the news on the 
> homepage with a few screenshots.

I would vote for a front page that had the title and (possibly) the
first paragraph of the most recent news item, with a "read more" link.
 It should be small enough to not take up too much of the
above-the-fold section.  Screenshots below that would be good.

Evan Daniel

[freenet-dev] Non-english windows users: does it pick up your language or do you need to set it?

[Matthew Toseland]

On Sunday 14 June 2009 13:11:40 Zero3 wrote:
> Matthew Toseland skrev:
> > Does the new windows installer set up Freenet to use the correct language? 
> > Obviously it asks you, but after that does the node use the correct 
> > language? And does it pick up the system locale in the first place? IIRC 
> > the language selection isn't very obvious?
> 
> Yes, it does! I just mentioned this in another reply to you about the 
> language IDs?
> 
> Upon loading, the Windows installer automatically pre-selects the 
> correct translation according to the OS locale. If no match is found, it 
> falls back to English. The language box is located at the top of the 
> main GUI as in this screenshot:
> 
> http://privat.zero3.dk/FreenetInstaller_Snapshot.png
> 
> When the user selects another language from the drop-down box, the GUI 
> is immediately translated into that language. I don't think it can be 
> much more simple and intuitive than that.
> 
> This value is also passed on to the node via "node.l10n=Deutsch" 
> (example for German) in freenet.ini. (I don't think that specifying a 
> language by the localized name is ideal, but that seems to be how the 
> node wants it. I *did* ask if this could be changed to standardized 
> language IDs a while ago...)

IIRC both work.
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[freenet-dev] About the website

[Matthew Toseland]

On Tuesday 16 June 2009 03:18:47 Evan Daniel wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Matthew
> Toseland wrote:
> > I have done the first phase of deploying this, after discussions with Ian. 
> > We use the new background and the new logo, but we waste a lot of space on 
> > the top "line" with the banner, and we don't use the horizontal menu yet as 
> > we need to implement the sub-menus. Also I have rewritten the What is 
> > Freenet? page with some input from Ian.
> 
> Looking at the new version, it feels like it's targetted to an
> academic who is interested in the theory of anonymous networks.  IMHO,
> it should be targeted at a potential new Freenet user.  What they want
> to know is what they can do with it.  The first sentence is a great
> introduction; it says that Freenet does something to let them
> communicate anonymously and without censorship.  At that point, I
> think the obvious question for a potential user isn't "How does it
> manage that?" but "What sorts of communication?"  In the current
> version, a new user has to get to the fourth paragraph before they get
> any hint about what they can do with it, rather than how it works.

Okay. The homepage now says:
' Freenet is free software which lets you anonymously share files, browse and 
publish web sites, and chat on forums, without fear of censorship. Users are 
anonymous, and Freenet is entirely decentralised. Without anonymity there can 
never be true freedom of speech, and without decentralisation the network would 
be vulnerable to attack. Learn more!'

The What is Freenet? page now says:
' Freenet is free software which lets you anonymously share files, browse and 
publish web sites ("freesites"), and chat on forums, without fear of 
censorship. Users are anonymous, and Freenet is entirely decentralised. Without 
anonymity there can never be true freedom of speech, and without 
decentralisation the network would be vulnerable to attack.

Communications by Freenet nodes are encrypted and are routed through other 
nodes to make it extremely difficult to determine who is requesting the 
information and what its content is.

Users contribute to the network by giving bandwidth and a portion of their hard 
drive (called the "data store") for storing files. Files are automatically kept 
or deleted depending on how popular they are, with the least popular being 
discarded to make way for newer or more popular content. Files are encrypted, 
so generally the user cannot easily discover what is in his datastore, and 
hopefully can't be held accountable for it. Chat forums, websites, and search 
functionality, are all built on top of this distributed data store.

Freenet has been downloaded by over 2 million users since the project started, 
and used for the distribution of censored information all over the world 
including countries such as China and the Middle East. Ideas and concepts 
pioneered in Freenet have had a significant impact in the academic world. Our 
2000 paper "Freenet: A Distributed Anonymous Information Storage and Retrieval 
System" was the most cited computer science paper of 2000 according to 
Citeseer, and Freenet has also inspired papers in the worlds of law and 
philosophy. Ian Clarke, Freenet's creator and project coordinator, was selected 
as one of the top 100 innovators of 2003 by MIT's Technology Review magazine.

An important recent development, which very few other networks have, is the 
"darknet": By only connecting to people they trust, users can greatly reduce 
their vulnerability, and yet still connect to a global network through their 
friends' friends' friends and so on. This enables people to use Freenet even in 
places where Freenet may be illegal, makes it very difficult for governments to 
block it, and does not rely on tunneling to the "free world".

Sounds good? Try it!'
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[freenet-dev] need graphic design help

[Ian Clarke]

Ok, we need some help with the website, surely someone out there knows
their way around Gimp, or Adobe Illustrator or something, or has a
friend that does?

Highest priorities:

- Fix the logo on the website - it should be "Freenet", not "FreeNet"

- Create a decent "Get Freenet" button, something vaguely like what
they have on http://getfirefox.com/ or http://jquery.com/.  Stuff like
"Version" should be overlayed in text, not drawn on the image, so that
it can be changed easily.

Any takers?

Ian.

-- 
Ian Clarke
CEO, Uprizer Labs
Email: ian at uprizer.com
Ph: +1 512 422 3588
Fax: +1 512 276 6674

[freenet-dev] usability testing

[Evan Daniel]

On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 2:42 PM, Matthew
Toseland wrote:
>> e) On the "Download page": No idea what a "node reference" is. (Could be
>> rephrased or explained better)
>
> That's why it's in quotes, and the "Add a friend" page does explain it. Do 
> you have any suggestion as to how to improve the wording?

Leave it the same, but make node reference a link to an explanation
(perhaps even a wiki page...) instead of in quotes?

Evan Daniel

[freenet-dev] About the website

[Evan Daniel]

On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 1:52 PM, Matthew
Toseland wrote:
> On Tuesday 16 June 2009 03:18:47 Evan Daniel wrote:
>> On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Matthew
>> Toseland wrote:
>> > I have done the first phase of deploying this, after discussions with Ian. 
>> > We use the new background and the new logo, but we waste a lot of space on 
>> > the top "line" with the banner, and we don't use the horizontal menu yet 
>> > as we need to implement the sub-menus. Also I have rewritten the What is 
>> > Freenet? page with some input from Ian.
>>
>> Looking at the new version, it feels like it's targetted to an
>> academic who is interested in the theory of anonymous networks. ?IMHO,
>> it should be targeted at a potential new Freenet user. ?What they want
>> to know is what they can do with it. ?The first sentence is a great
>> introduction; it says that Freenet does something to let them
>> communicate anonymously and without censorship. ?At that point, I
>> think the obvious question for a potential user isn't "How does it
>> manage that?" but "What sorts of communication?" ?In the current
>> version, a new user has to get to the fourth paragraph before they get
>> any hint about what they can do with it, rather than how it works.
>
> Okay. The homepage now says:
> ' Freenet is free software which lets you anonymously share files, browse and 
> publish web sites, and chat on forums, without fear of censorship. Users are 
> anonymous, and Freenet is entirely decentralised. Without anonymity there can 
> never be true freedom of speech, and without decentralisation the network 
> would be vulnerable to attack. Learn more!'
>
> The What is Freenet? page now says:
> ' Freenet is free software which lets you anonymously share files, browse and 
> publish web sites ("freesites"), and chat on forums, without fear of 
> censorship. Users are anonymous, and Freenet is entirely decentralised. 
> Without anonymity there can never be true freedom of speech, and without 
> decentralisation the network would be vulnerable to attack.
>
> Communications by Freenet nodes are encrypted and are routed through other 
> nodes to make it extremely difficult to determine who is requesting the 
> information and what its content is.
>
> Users contribute to the network by giving bandwidth and a portion of their 
> hard drive (called the "data store") for storing files. Files are 
> automatically kept or deleted depending on how popular they are, with the 
> least popular being discarded to make way for newer or more popular content. 
> Files are encrypted, so generally the user cannot easily discover what is in 
> his datastore, and hopefully can't be held accountable for it. Chat forums, 
> websites, and search functionality, are all built on top of this distributed 
> data store.
>
> Freenet has been downloaded by over 2 million users since the project 
> started, and used for the distribution of censored information all over the 
> world including countries such as China and the Middle East. Ideas and 
> concepts pioneered in Freenet have had a significant impact in the academic 
> world. Our 2000 paper "Freenet: A Distributed Anonymous Information Storage 
> and Retrieval System" was the most cited computer science paper of 2000 
> according to Citeseer, and Freenet has also inspired papers in the worlds of 
> law and philosophy. Ian Clarke, Freenet's creator and project coordinator, 
> was selected as one of the top 100 innovators of 2003 by MIT's Technology 
> Review magazine.
>
> An important recent development, which very few other networks have, is the 
> "darknet": By only connecting to people they trust, users can greatly reduce 
> their vulnerability, and yet still connect to a global network through their 
> friends' friends' friends and so on. This enables people to use Freenet even 
> in places where Freenet may be illegal, makes it very difficult for 
> governments to block it, and does not rely on tunneling to the "free world".
>
> Sounds good? Try it!'
>

I think that's better.

I might change "browse and publish web sites ("freesites")" to
something like "browse and publish "freesites" (freesites are like web
sites, but hosted on Freenet)".  The current version sounds somewhat
like you could browse the normal web with Freenet.  Given that some
new users are familiar with TOR, they may be expecting something like
it; best not to feed those assumptions.

Evan Daniel

[freenet-dev] Bulk vs realtime transfer flag

[Robert Hailey]

On Jun 13, 2009, at 12:32 PM, Matthew Toseland wrote:

> We might want to wait until we have finished with the opennet  
> connection limit changes, but IMHO this is a good idea too.
>
> Basically, requests would have a flag, which is either bulk or  
> realtime.
>
> Currently, we only allow new requests if our current requests can be  
> completed within available bandwidth - assuming they all succeed -  
> within 90 seconds. It is very rare that they all succeed, in fact a  
> lot of requests fail, but across a route spanning 10 hops it is  
> likely there is one node which is bogged down with lots of transfers.
>
> For bulk requests, we increase the transfer threshold to 120 seconds  
> or maybe even 300 seconds. This will optimise throughput.
>
> For realtime requests, we reduce the transfer threshold to maybe 20  
> seconds, severely limiting the number of requests but ensuring they  
> all complete fast. Any incoming realtime transfer that takes 20  
> seconds is turtled (at which point they become bulk requests). Data  
> blocks for realtime requests take precedence over data blocks for  
> bulk requests. We would need to ensure that the data for the bulk  
> requests does get transferred, and the realtime requests don't  
> constantly starve the bulk requests. This would require a token  
> bucket or something similar to limit the proportion of bandwidth  
> used by realtime requests, which would need to be relative to the  
> available/used bandwidth and not necessarily to the limit.
>
> Fproxy would use realtime requests. Persistent downloads would use  
> bulk requests. Big files being fetched in fproxy after asking the  
> user might use bulk requests.
>
> All this assumes the probability of a CHK request succeeding (in the  
> region of 10% at the moment) doesn't dramatically rise with Bloom  
> filter sharing. Maybe we should put it off until after that?

I would definitely put this off till after bloom filter sharing, but I  
don't think I agree with the implementation.

A simpler solution...

The present *algorithm* is optimized for throughput, and rightly so as  
traffic analysis becomes easier at low-latencies. Go ahead and  
implement the realtime flag, but implement it as a transfer-mode, that  
it would temporarily suspend *all* other transfers. Thus having a true  
low-latency request.

If we find this suspension would make any of those transfers timeout,  
then reject that incoming low-latency request.

You would have to check for this anyway, with two throttles (as you  
mentioned) there is still the potential to cause transfers to run over  
the 'agreed' time-budget if it manages to add an extra 30 seconds to a  
request.

Simple cares must be taken:
1) a rejected real-time request should not be cause for backoff (as  
then it adversely effects general transfers, and is probably the fault  
of the requesting node anyway [for queueing too many normal transfers]).
2) enforce that we do not accept a second real-time request from a  
peer currently in a real-time transfer.

-

The harder (and more general) solution would be to plug a latency  
field into the request, passing how "long" we are willing to wait for  
the transfer to complete.
If we are forwarding a low-latency request, we deduct the time since  
we got the message [and possibly the expected link/transfer time].  
Which is to say it's time requirement would become harder to meet as  
it fails, till all would reject a request needing a zero-transfer time.

Then to mirror your suggestion, start bulk requests at 90 secs, low  
latency at 20 secs. Transfer packets "earliest deadline first."

But this would require unfair queueing, which I believe requires token  
passing...



While I agree with the bulk/realtime flag (link-level), I do think  
that your solution is going down the wrong path... basically  
reduplicating an implementation that the performance of which is  
already questionable. I believe what you are trying to mend is the  
perceived user experience, which I believe rests squarely on the  
"ethernet-ness" of requests being accepted or rejected. Tokens (or...  
assurance of a request not being rejected), lets us implement fair  
queueing; and if implemented right could include your idea of multiple  
target transfer times.

I have little doubt that creating a second-but-tighter-window would  
not greatly effect the end-user experience. With the ethernet-effect,  
and accepting fewer requests (by design). The user would simply have a  
smaller chance but that the page would more quickly appear. Rather  
than having 10% succeeding in 90 seconds, we might have 1% succeeding  
in 20 seconds. Thus making the perceived benefit (what you are really  
trying to solve) likely further away.

I suggest a move to 'request-tokens', be it explicit token granting/ 
passing or somehow implicit. This would also let us move forward with  
any kind of load balancing.

I have an incomplete sketch of how I think this should work. 

[freenet-dev] About the website

[Clément]

On Tuesday 16 June 2009 01:14:24 Matthew Toseland wrote:
> On Monday 01 June 2009 01:24:24 Cl?ment wrote:
> >  [...]
> 
> I have done the first phase of deploying this, after discussions with Ian.
> We use the new background and the new logo, but we waste a lot of space on
> the top "line" with the banner, and we don't use the horizontal menu yet as
> we need to implement the sub-menus. Also I have rewritten the What is
> Freenet? page with some input from Ian.

Just a remark : there is no "home" link in the menu. The logo is a link, but I 
don't think it's sufficient.

Also, I paste here a message I sent to the ml satursday iirc, but it never 
showed up. Hopefully this one will hit the target :

> How about:
>
> Home
> - Home
> - What is Freenet?
> - Download Freenet
>
Download Freenet should definitely be a top link, it gives it more visibility. 
The all point of the site is to make the user download freenet, so we should 
make it clear, on all pages, where to download it
Home should link to the homepage and be a simple menu : that's how it is on 
all sites afaik, and consistency with  "standards" is very important.
We could move the What is Freenet? link under the About menu, since meanings 
are close, so the user will instinctively search under the about menu, and we 
already said to the user what freenet was. The What is Freenet? section is 
here if he wants more details. Also, there already is a second level link on 
the homepage pointing to the what is freenet page (Learn more).
So it would be :
Home
Download
About
-What is Freenet?
-...
> About:
> - Philosophy
> - Papers
> - People
>
Agreed. With the What is Freenet submenu added.
> Contribute:
> - Developer page
> - Donate
> - Sponsors
>
I think people see "contribute" as contribute to the project by involving some 
time in it. Well, that's how I hear it. Besides that, it doesn't give the 
donation links the visibility it may need.
So :
Donate
-Donate
-Sponsors
Contribute
> Help:
> - Docs
> - FAQ
> - Mailing lists
> - Suggestions
> - Wiki
>
> Too many links? Depends on the theme I guess...
>
In fact menus should have 5 +/-2 submenus, so it's fine. The CSS is still very 
basic, and maybe not well done for submenus, so maybe right now it wouldn't 
fit, but it's not really difficult to change that.

> Actually, I'm not convinced we want to keep the documentation pages:
> - Install only applies to the java installer, needs some typo fixes and a
> new final screenshot, and some guidance on the post-install wizard. -
> Connect: needs updating but is basically acceptable.
> - Content: dunno, isn't this more About? but i'm not sure we want to move
> it there... - Understand: maybe keep
> - Freemail: probably keep, is sort of official
> - Frost: dunno, we don't ship it, and we don't review it, but at the moment
> we recommend it ... - jSite: keep
> - Thaw: see Frost
> - FAQ: should be at a higher level
> - Wiki: should be at a higher level
If we get rid of the documentation pages, we could rename the wiki link in 
docs. We probably also want to change the homepage of the wiki, since right 
now it's a bit confusing (lot and lot of links).

[freenet-dev] Win Installer it_IT l10n 090611

[Zero3]

Luke771 skrev:
>> Whoa - that's too short! I placed the "[*]" to let you know where the 
>> max was, but now your translation is over a line less than max (= 
>> leaving a blank line in the GUI). Can you add a few words again? ;)
>>   
> 
> LOL, OK, make that:
> 
> "Freenet Installer has detected that you already have Freenet 
> installed. Your current installation was installed using an older, 
> unsupported installer. To continue, you must first uninstall your 
> current version of Freenet using the previously created uninstaller:", 
> "Il Programma di Installazione di Freenet ha rilevato l'esistenza  di una 
> precedente installazione di 
> Freenet creata da un programma di installazione obsoleto e non pi? 
> supportato. Si Prega di rimuovere l'attuale installazione prima di continuare"
> 
> 
> 
> That would letarally translate to "Freenet Installer detected the 
> existence of a previous Freenet installation created by an obsolete and 
> unsupported installer. Please remove the existing installation before 
> continuing.

Thanks! Committed.

- Zero3

Re: [freenet-dev] About the website

[Matthew Toseland]

On Tuesday 16 June 2009 03:18:47 Evan Daniel wrote:
 On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Matthew
 Toselandt...@amphibian.dyndns.org wrote:
  I have done the first phase of deploying this, after discussions with Ian. 
  We use the new background and the new logo, but we waste a lot of space on 
  the top line with the banner, and we don't use the horizontal menu yet as 
  we need to implement the sub-menus. Also I have rewritten the What is 
  Freenet? page with some input from Ian.
 
 Looking at the new version, it feels like it's targetted to an
 academic who is interested in the theory of anonymous networks.  IMHO,
 it should be targeted at a potential new Freenet user.  What they want
 to know is what they can do with it.  The first sentence is a great
 introduction; it says that Freenet does something to let them
 communicate anonymously and without censorship.  At that point, I
 think the obvious question for a potential user isn't How does it
 manage that? but What sorts of communication?  In the current
 version, a new user has to get to the fourth paragraph before they get
 any hint about what they can do with it, rather than how it works.

Okay. The homepage now says:
' Freenet is free software which lets you anonymously share files, browse and 
publish web sites, and chat on forums, without fear of censorship. Users are 
anonymous, and Freenet is entirely decentralised. Without anonymity there can 
never be true freedom of speech, and without decentralisation the network would 
be vulnerable to attack. Learn more!'

The What is Freenet? page now says:
' Freenet is free software which lets you anonymously share files, browse and 
publish web sites (freesites), and chat on forums, without fear of 
censorship. Users are anonymous, and Freenet is entirely decentralised. Without 
anonymity there can never be true freedom of speech, and without 
decentralisation the network would be vulnerable to attack.

Communications by Freenet nodes are encrypted and are routed through other 
nodes to make it extremely difficult to determine who is requesting the 
information and what its content is.

Users contribute to the network by giving bandwidth and a portion of their hard 
drive (called the data store) for storing files. Files are automatically kept 
or deleted depending on how popular they are, with the least popular being 
discarded to make way for newer or more popular content. Files are encrypted, 
so generally the user cannot easily discover what is in his datastore, and 
hopefully can't be held accountable for it. Chat forums, websites, and search 
functionality, are all built on top of this distributed data store.

Freenet has been downloaded by over 2 million users since the project started, 
and used for the distribution of censored information all over the world 
including countries such as China and the Middle East. Ideas and concepts 
pioneered in Freenet have had a significant impact in the academic world. Our 
2000 paper Freenet: A Distributed Anonymous Information Storage and Retrieval 
System was the most cited computer science paper of 2000 according to 
Citeseer, and Freenet has also inspired papers in the worlds of law and 
philosophy. Ian Clarke, Freenet's creator and project coordinator, was selected 
as one of the top 100 innovators of 2003 by MIT's Technology Review magazine.

An important recent development, which very few other networks have, is the 
darknet: By only connecting to people they trust, users can greatly reduce 
their vulnerability, and yet still connect to a global network through their 
friends' friends' friends and so on. This enables people to use Freenet even in 
places where Freenet may be illegal, makes it very difficult for governments to 
block it, and does not rely on tunneling to the free world.

Sounds good? Try it!'


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Re: [freenet-dev] Non-english windows users: does it pick up your language or do you need to set it?

[Matthew Toseland]

On Sunday 14 June 2009 13:11:40 Zero3 wrote:
 Matthew Toseland skrev:
  Does the new windows installer set up Freenet to use the correct language? 
  Obviously it asks you, but after that does the node use the correct 
  language? And does it pick up the system locale in the first place? IIRC 
  the language selection isn't very obvious?
 
 Yes, it does! I just mentioned this in another reply to you about the 
 language IDs?
 
 Upon loading, the Windows installer automatically pre-selects the 
 correct translation according to the OS locale. If no match is found, it 
 falls back to English. The language box is located at the top of the 
 main GUI as in this screenshot:
 
 http://privat.zero3.dk/FreenetInstaller_Snapshot.png
 
 When the user selects another language from the drop-down box, the GUI 
 is immediately translated into that language. I don't think it can be 
 much more simple and intuitive than that.
 
 This value is also passed on to the node via node.l10n=Deutsch 
 (example for German) in freenet.ini. (I don't think that specifying a 
 language by the localized name is ideal, but that seems to be how the 
 node wants it. I *did* ask if this could be changed to standardized 
 language IDs a while ago...)

IIRC both work.


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Re: [freenet-dev] About the website

[Evan Daniel]

On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 1:52 PM, Matthew
Toselandt...@amphibian.dyndns.org wrote:
 On Tuesday 16 June 2009 03:18:47 Evan Daniel wrote:
 On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Matthew
 Toselandt...@amphibian.dyndns.org wrote:
  I have done the first phase of deploying this, after discussions with Ian. 
  We use the new background and the new logo, but we waste a lot of space on 
  the top line with the banner, and we don't use the horizontal menu yet 
  as we need to implement the sub-menus. Also I have rewritten the What is 
  Freenet? page with some input from Ian.

 Looking at the new version, it feels like it's targetted to an
 academic who is interested in the theory of anonymous networks.  IMHO,
 it should be targeted at a potential new Freenet user.  What they want
 to know is what they can do with it.  The first sentence is a great
 introduction; it says that Freenet does something to let them
 communicate anonymously and without censorship.  At that point, I
 think the obvious question for a potential user isn't How does it
 manage that? but What sorts of communication?  In the current
 version, a new user has to get to the fourth paragraph before they get
 any hint about what they can do with it, rather than how it works.

 Okay. The homepage now says:
 ' Freenet is free software which lets you anonymously share files, browse and 
 publish web sites, and chat on forums, without fear of censorship. Users are 
 anonymous, and Freenet is entirely decentralised. Without anonymity there can 
 never be true freedom of speech, and without decentralisation the network 
 would be vulnerable to attack. Learn more!'

 The What is Freenet? page now says:
 ' Freenet is free software which lets you anonymously share files, browse and 
 publish web sites (freesites), and chat on forums, without fear of 
 censorship. Users are anonymous, and Freenet is entirely decentralised. 
 Without anonymity there can never be true freedom of speech, and without 
 decentralisation the network would be vulnerable to attack.

 Communications by Freenet nodes are encrypted and are routed through other 
 nodes to make it extremely difficult to determine who is requesting the 
 information and what its content is.

 Users contribute to the network by giving bandwidth and a portion of their 
 hard drive (called the data store) for storing files. Files are 
 automatically kept or deleted depending on how popular they are, with the 
 least popular being discarded to make way for newer or more popular content. 
 Files are encrypted, so generally the user cannot easily discover what is in 
 his datastore, and hopefully can't be held accountable for it. Chat forums, 
 websites, and search functionality, are all built on top of this distributed 
 data store.

 Freenet has been downloaded by over 2 million users since the project 
 started, and used for the distribution of censored information all over the 
 world including countries such as China and the Middle East. Ideas and 
 concepts pioneered in Freenet have had a significant impact in the academic 
 world. Our 2000 paper Freenet: A Distributed Anonymous Information Storage 
 and Retrieval System was the most cited computer science paper of 2000 
 according to Citeseer, and Freenet has also inspired papers in the worlds of 
 law and philosophy. Ian Clarke, Freenet's creator and project coordinator, 
 was selected as one of the top 100 innovators of 2003 by MIT's Technology 
 Review magazine.

 An important recent development, which very few other networks have, is the 
 darknet: By only connecting to people they trust, users can greatly reduce 
 their vulnerability, and yet still connect to a global network through their 
 friends' friends' friends and so on. This enables people to use Freenet even 
 in places where Freenet may be illegal, makes it very difficult for 
 governments to block it, and does not rely on tunneling to the free world.

 Sounds good? Try it!'


I think that's better.

I might change browse and publish web sites (freesites) to
something like browse and publish freesites (freesites are like web
sites, but hosted on Freenet).  The current version sounds somewhat
like you could browse the normal web with Freenet.  Given that some
new users are familiar with TOR, they may be expecting something like
it; best not to feed those assumptions.

Evan Daniel
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Re: [freenet-dev] usability testing

[Matthew Toseland]

On Sunday 14 June 2009 14:24:39 Zero3 wrote:
 Ian Clarke skrev:
  Its that time again.  Grab your girlfriends, boyfriends, flatmates,
  friends etc, sit them down in front of a computer, and ask them to
  install and use Freenet.  Take careful note of anywhere they get stuck
  and either report it here, or report a bug.  DON'T HELP THEM!  Any
  time they need to ask you a question, its a usability bug.  Ask them
  to provide a running commentary on what they are seeing as they use
  Freenet, make a note of anything that confuses or misleads them.
  
  Freenet has long been derided for its poor usability, but if you can
  spend 10 minutes of your's and a friend's time, you can really help us
  ensure that newbies have a good experience when they try Freenet.
 
 Had a friend do a quick test. Quick lineup of relevant 
 comments/questions/critique (my comments in parentheses):
 
 a) On the front page of the website: A What is Freenet? teaser linking 
 to the What is Freenet? page would be cool. Confusedly started to read 
 the news item instead. (She should have spotted the News headline, but 
 I agree on the teaser)

I think originally the reason for putting news on the main page was that a lot 
of people check back on the website repeatedly, looking for new stuff (i.e. 
news) ?:

I agree we should have some basic explanation and link on the home page though 
... I am not quite sure whether just copying the first para from What is 
Freenet as Dieppe has done is sufficient?

Freenet is free software which lets you publish and obtain information on the 
Internet without fear of censorship. To achieve this freedom, the network is 
entirely decentralized and publishers and consumers of information are 
anonymous. Without anonymity there can never be true freedom of speech, and 
without decentralization the network will be vulnerable to attack.

Followed by a link to learn more, a download link and news.

Is this sufficiently comprehensible to newbies? I guess so, but it doesn't 
really answer the question!

Anyway, I have applied the above to the website, apart from Get Freenet 
image, because IMHO the drop shadow makes it hard to read. Any chance of a new 
Get Freenet image?

Also, the gap between a the end of the Learn more and the beginning of News 
is a bit too large... can we do something about this?
 
 b) FUD alert on the What is Freenet? page:
 
 Freenet does not let the user control what is stored in the data store. 
 [...] Files in the data store are encrypted to reduce the likelihood of 
 prosecution by persons wishing to censor Freenet content.
 
 (Agreed. We are scaring some people away before they even reach the 
 download page. I don't think we should hide the facts, but rather give a 
 reasoned explanation for the ways Freenet do things.)

I guess there is a language issue here yeah...

How about this? (deployed):

'Users contribute to the network by giving bandwidth and a portion of their 
hard drive (called the data store) for storing files. Files are automatically 
kept or deleted depending on how popular they are, with the least popular being 
discarded to make way for newer or more popular content. Files are encrypted, 
so generally the user cannot easily discover what is in his datastore, and 
hopefully can't be held accountable for it.'

I have also made some other minor changes to the page.

I am not convinced about the last paragraph, it is basically shameful 
advertising and is factually rather exaggerating (on the claim re 
china/mid-east):

Also I think we need to play our distinctives better... darknet is a *major* 
distinctive for Freenet... I have rewritten the page somewhat ...
 
 c) On the Philosophy page: More focus on what Freenet actually *can 
 do* for citizens living under censorship and the like. 

Isn't that what What is Freenet? is about?

 Too much space  
 spent on excusing for warez/other-stuff-people-don't-like. The And what 
 of copyright? paragraph seems like a bad excuse for providing file 
 sharing software. What about child porn/bomb recipes/etc.? (I agree on 
 some of the points. While much of the info is indeed true, it might not 
 be ideal to feed to first-time users up front.)

Well, What is Freenet? is what they will see up-front. Normally I'd expect 
them to have read that first, and it does in fact ask them to at the top.
 
 d) FUD alert on the Download page:
 
 Anti-virus software: Severe problems have been reported with Kaspersky, 
 and other firewalls and antivirus software may also break Freenet's 
 installation. Having said that, we do NOT recommend that you turn off 
 your antivirus software on a Windows system; if installation doesn't 
 work, please contact us and we will try to find out what is wrong.
 
 (TBH we haven't had severe problems, and we don't know for sure if 
 Kaspersky was the fault (although it looks like it was). And we are only 
 talking about a single incident here - not and other firewalls and 
 antivirus software may also.)

The 

Re: [freenet-dev] Bulk vs realtime transfer flag

[Robert Hailey]

On Jun 13, 2009, at 12:32 PM, Matthew Toseland wrote:

 We might want to wait until we have finished with the opennet  
 connection limit changes, but IMHO this is a good idea too.

 Basically, requests would have a flag, which is either bulk or  
 realtime.

 Currently, we only allow new requests if our current requests can be  
 completed within available bandwidth - assuming they all succeed -  
 within 90 seconds. It is very rare that they all succeed, in fact a  
 lot of requests fail, but across a route spanning 10 hops it is  
 likely there is one node which is bogged down with lots of transfers.

 For bulk requests, we increase the transfer threshold to 120 seconds  
 or maybe even 300 seconds. This will optimise throughput.

 For realtime requests, we reduce the transfer threshold to maybe 20  
 seconds, severely limiting the number of requests but ensuring they  
 all complete fast. Any incoming realtime transfer that takes 20  
 seconds is turtled (at which point they become bulk requests). Data  
 blocks for realtime requests take precedence over data blocks for  
 bulk requests. We would need to ensure that the data for the bulk  
 requests does get transferred, and the realtime requests don't  
 constantly starve the bulk requests. This would require a token  
 bucket or something similar to limit the proportion of bandwidth  
 used by realtime requests, which would need to be relative to the  
 available/used bandwidth and not necessarily to the limit.

 Fproxy would use realtime requests. Persistent downloads would use  
 bulk requests. Big files being fetched in fproxy after asking the  
 user might use bulk requests.

 All this assumes the probability of a CHK request succeeding (in the  
 region of 10% at the moment) doesn't dramatically rise with Bloom  
 filter sharing. Maybe we should put it off until after that?

I would definitely put this off till after bloom filter sharing, but I  
don't think I agree with the implementation.

A simpler solution...

The present *algorithm* is optimized for throughput, and rightly so as  
traffic analysis becomes easier at low-latencies. Go ahead and  
implement the realtime flag, but implement it as a transfer-mode, that  
it would temporarily suspend *all* other transfers. Thus having a true  
low-latency request.

If we find this suspension would make any of those transfers timeout,  
then reject that incoming low-latency request.

You would have to check for this anyway, with two throttles (as you  
mentioned) there is still the potential to cause transfers to run over  
the 'agreed' time-budget if it manages to add an extra 30 seconds to a  
request.

Simple cares must be taken:
1) a rejected real-time request should not be cause for backoff (as  
then it adversely effects general transfers, and is probably the fault  
of the requesting node anyway [for queueing too many normal transfers]).
2) enforce that we do not accept a second real-time request from a  
peer currently in a real-time transfer.

-

The harder (and more general) solution would be to plug a latency  
field into the request, passing how long we are willing to wait for  
the transfer to complete.
If we are forwarding a low-latency request, we deduct the time since  
we got the message [and possibly the expected link/transfer time].  
Which is to say it's time requirement would become harder to meet as  
it fails, till all would reject a request needing a zero-transfer time.

Then to mirror your suggestion, start bulk requests at 90 secs, low  
latency at 20 secs. Transfer packets earliest deadline first.

But this would require unfair queueing, which I believe requires token  
passing...

begin plug for token passing

While I agree with the bulk/realtime flag (link-level), I do think  
that your solution is going down the wrong path... basically  
reduplicating an implementation that the performance of which is  
already questionable. I believe what you are trying to mend is the  
perceived user experience, which I believe rests squarely on the  
ethernet-ness of requests being accepted or rejected. Tokens (or...  
assurance of a request not being rejected), lets us implement fair  
queueing; and if implemented right could include your idea of multiple  
target transfer times.

I have little doubt that creating a second-but-tighter-window would  
not greatly effect the end-user experience. With the ethernet-effect,  
and accepting fewer requests (by design). The user would simply have a  
smaller chance but that the page would more quickly appear. Rather  
than having 10% succeeding in 90 seconds, we might have 1% succeeding  
in 20 seconds. Thus making the perceived benefit (what you are really  
trying to solve) likely further away.

I suggest a move to 'request-tokens', be it explicit token granting/ 
passing or somehow implicit. This would also let us move forward with  
any kind of load balancing.

I have an incomplete sketch of how I think this should work. While  

Re: [freenet-dev] usability testing

[Evan Daniel]

On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 2:42 PM, Matthew
Toselandt...@amphibian.dyndns.org wrote:
 e) On the Download page: No idea what a node reference is. (Could be
 rephrased or explained better)

 That's why it's in quotes, and the Add a friend page does explain it. Do 
 you have any suggestion as to how to improve the wording?

Leave it the same, but make node reference a link to an explanation
(perhaps even a wiki page...) instead of in quotes?

Evan Daniel
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Re: [freenet-dev] Bulk vs realtime transfer flag

[Matthew Toseland]

On Tuesday 16 June 2009 19:53:48 Robert Hailey wrote:
 
 On Jun 13, 2009, at 12:32 PM, Matthew Toseland wrote:
 
  We might want to wait until we have finished with the opennet  
  connection limit changes, but IMHO this is a good idea too.
 
  Basically, requests would have a flag, which is either bulk or  
  realtime.
 
  Currently, we only allow new requests if our current requests can be  
  completed within available bandwidth - assuming they all succeed -  
  within 90 seconds. It is very rare that they all succeed, in fact a  
  lot of requests fail, but across a route spanning 10 hops it is  
  likely there is one node which is bogged down with lots of transfers.
 
  For bulk requests, we increase the transfer threshold to 120 seconds  
  or maybe even 300 seconds. This will optimise throughput.
 
  For realtime requests, we reduce the transfer threshold to maybe 20  
  seconds, severely limiting the number of requests but ensuring they  
  all complete fast. Any incoming realtime transfer that takes 20  
  seconds is turtled (at which point they become bulk requests). Data  
  blocks for realtime requests take precedence over data blocks for  
  bulk requests. We would need to ensure that the data for the bulk  
  requests does get transferred, and the realtime requests don't  
  constantly starve the bulk requests. This would require a token  
  bucket or something similar to limit the proportion of bandwidth  
  used by realtime requests, which would need to be relative to the  
  available/used bandwidth and not necessarily to the limit.
 
  Fproxy would use realtime requests. Persistent downloads would use  
  bulk requests. Big files being fetched in fproxy after asking the  
  user might use bulk requests.
 
  All this assumes the probability of a CHK request succeeding (in the  
  region of 10% at the moment) doesn't dramatically rise with Bloom  
  filter sharing. Maybe we should put it off until after that?
 
 I would definitely put this off till after bloom filter sharing, but I  
 don't think I agree with the implementation.
 
 A simpler solution...
 
 The present *algorithm* is optimized for throughput, and rightly so as  
 traffic analysis becomes easier at low-latencies. Go ahead and  
 implement the realtime flag, but implement it as a transfer-mode, that  
 it would temporarily suspend *all* other transfers. Thus having a true  
 low-latency request.

This is precisely what making real-time request transfers take precedence over 
bulk request transfers does.
 
 If we find this suspension would make any of those transfers timeout,  
 then reject that incoming low-latency request.

What about the stuff that hasn't completed yet?
 
 You would have to check for this anyway, with two throttles (as you  
 mentioned) there is still the potential to cause transfers to run over  
 the 'agreed' time-budget if it manages to add an extra 30 seconds to a  
 request.
 
 Simple cares must be taken:
 1) a rejected real-time request should not be cause for backoff (as  
 then it adversely effects general transfers, and is probably the fault  
 of the requesting node anyway [for queueing too many normal transfers]).
 2) enforce that we do not accept a second real-time request from a  
 peer currently in a real-time transfer.

I don't follow. It is very likely that some of our real-time requests will be 
coming in at a relatively slow rate, that we would be able to accept more. On 
the other hand on a slow node, we may not be able to accept even one per peer, 
we may want an overall limit.
 
 -
 
 The harder (and more general) solution would be to plug a latency  
 field into the request, passing how long we are willing to wait for  
 the transfer to complete.

IMHO this would make it possible to distinguish between different applications, 
not just between the two broad classes ... therefore there would need to be a 
good reason for it.

 If we are forwarding a low-latency request, we deduct the time since  
 we got the message [and possibly the expected link/transfer time].  
 Which is to say it's time requirement would become harder to meet as  
 it fails, till all would reject a request needing a zero-transfer time.
 
 Then to mirror your suggestion, start bulk requests at 90 secs, low  
 latency at 20 secs. Transfer packets earliest deadline first.

At that level it's not just a matter of transfer priorities: queueing-based 
routing might be tweakable via a deadline parameter.
 
 But this would require unfair queueing, which I believe requires token  
 passing...
 
 begin plug for token passing
 
 While I agree with the bulk/realtime flag (link-level), I do think  
 that your solution is going down the wrong path... basically  
 reduplicating an implementation that the performance of which is  
 already questionable. I believe what you are trying to mend is the  
 perceived user experience, which I believe rests squarely on the  
 ethernet-ness of requests being accepted or rejected. Tokens 

Re: [freenet-dev] Non-english windows users: does it pick up your language or do you need to set it?

[Zero3]

Matthew Toseland skrev:
 On Sunday 14 June 2009 13:11:40 Zero3 wrote:
 Matthew Toseland skrev:
 Does the new windows installer set up Freenet to use the correct language? 
 Obviously it asks you, but after that does the node use the correct 
 language? And does it pick up the system locale in the first place? IIRC 
 the language selection isn't very obvious?
 Yes, it does! I just mentioned this in another reply to you about the 
 language IDs?

 Upon loading, the Windows installer automatically pre-selects the 
 correct translation according to the OS locale. If no match is found, it 
 falls back to English. The language box is located at the top of the 
 main GUI as in this screenshot:

 http://privat.zero3.dk/FreenetInstaller_Snapshot.png

 When the user selects another language from the drop-down box, the GUI 
 is immediately translated into that language. I don't think it can be 
 much more simple and intuitive than that.

 This value is also passed on to the node via node.l10n=Deutsch 
 (example for German) in freenet.ini. (I don't think that specifying a 
 language by the localized name is ideal, but that seems to be how the 
 node wants it. I *did* ask if this could be changed to standardized 
 language IDs a while ago...)
 
 IIRC both work.

Which kind of IDs does it accept? I'd really like to switch over to that 
instead.

- Zero3
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Re: [freenet-dev] Non-english windows users: does it pick up your language or do you need to set it?

[bo-le]

Am Dienstag, 16. Juni 2009 21:40:53 schrieb Zero3:
 Matthew Toseland skrev:
  On Sunday 14 June 2009 13:11:40 Zero3 wrote:
  Matthew Toseland skrev:
  Does the new windows installer set up Freenet to use the correct
  language? Obviously it asks you, but after that does the node use the
  correct language? And does it pick up the system locale in the first
  place? IIRC the language selection isn't very obvious?
 
  Yes, it does! I just mentioned this in another reply to you about the
  language IDs?
 
  Upon loading, the Windows installer automatically pre-selects the
  correct translation according to the OS locale. If no match is found, it
  falls back to English. The language box is located at the top of the
  main GUI as in this screenshot:
 
  http://privat.zero3.dk/FreenetInstaller_Snapshot.png
 
  When the user selects another language from the drop-down box, the GUI
  is immediately translated into that language. I don't think it can be
  much more simple and intuitive than that.
 
  This value is also passed on to the node via node.l10n=Deutsch
  (example for German) in freenet.ini. (I don't think that specifying a
  language by the localized name is ideal, but that seems to be how the
  node wants it. I *did* ask if this could be changed to standardized
  language IDs a while ago...)
 
  IIRC both work.

 Which kind of IDs does it accept? I'd really like to switch over to that
 instead.
freenet.l10n.L10n.java shows you the strings:
/** @see http://www.omniglot.com/language/names.htm; */
public enum LANGUAGE {
ENGLISH(en, English, eng),
SPANISH(es, Español, spa),
DANISH(da, Dansk, dan),
GERMAN(de, Deutsch, deu),
FINNISH(fi, Suomi, fin),
FRENCH(fr, Français, fra),
ITALIAN(it, Italiano, ita),
NORWEGIAN(no, Norsk, nor),
POLISH(pl, Polski, pol),
SWEDISH(se, Svenska, svk),
CHINESE(zh-cn, 中文(简体), chn),
CHINESE_TAIWAN(zh-tw, 中文(繁體), zh-tw),
UNLISTED(unlisted, unlisted, unlisted);

any string listed here can be used.

 - Zero3
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Re: [freenet-dev] About the website

[Arne Babenhauserheide]

Am Dienstag, 16. Juni 2009 19:52:32 schrieb Matthew Toseland:
 Okay. The homepage now says:
 ' Freenet is free software which lets you anonymously share files, browse
 and publish web sites, and chat on forums, without fear of censorship.
 Users are anonymous, and Freenet is entirely decentralised. Without
 anonymity there can never be true freedom of speech, and without
 decentralisation the network would be vulnerable to attack. Learn more!

The last part shouldn't be in negative form, I think. Her's an alternative: 

Its anonymity gives you true freedom of speech and its decentralization makes 
it resistant against attacks.

Also I wouldn't use a , before and chat on forums (it breaks the text 
flow). 

How about this: 

' Freenet is free software which lets you anonymously share files, chat on 
forums and browse and publish web sites without fear of censorship. Users are 
anonymous, and Freenet is entirely decentralised. Through anonymity it gives 
you true freedom of speech and its decentralization makes it resistant against 
attacks. Learn more!'


Best wishes, 
Arne

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Ein Mann wird auf der Straße mit einem Messer bedroht. 
Zwei Polizisten sind sofort da und halten ein Transparent davor. 

Illegale Szene. Niemand darf das sehen.

Der Mann wird ausgeraubt, erstochen und verblutet, 
denn die Polizisten haben beide Hände voll zu tun. 

Willkommen in Deutschland. Zensur ist schön. 
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---




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Re: [freenet-dev] About the website

[Matthew Toseland]

On Tuesday 16 June 2009 19:12:52 Evan Daniel wrote:
 On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 1:52 PM, Matthew
 Toselandt...@amphibian.dyndns.org wrote:
  On Tuesday 16 June 2009 03:18:47 Evan Daniel wrote:
  On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Matthew
  Toselandt...@amphibian.dyndns.org wrote:
   I have done the first phase of deploying this, after discussions with 
   Ian. We use the new background and the new logo, but we waste a lot of 
   space on the top line with the banner, and we don't use the horizontal 
   menu yet as we need to implement the sub-menus. Also I have rewritten 
   the What is Freenet? page with some input from Ian.
 
  Looking at the new version, it feels like it's targetted to an
  academic who is interested in the theory of anonymous networks.  IMHO,
  it should be targeted at a potential new Freenet user.  What they want
  to know is what they can do with it.  The first sentence is a great
  introduction; it says that Freenet does something to let them
  communicate anonymously and without censorship.  At that point, I
  think the obvious question for a potential user isn't How does it
  manage that? but What sorts of communication?  In the current
  version, a new user has to get to the fourth paragraph before they get
  any hint about what they can do with it, rather than how it works.
 
  Okay. The homepage now says:
  ' Freenet is free software which lets you anonymously share files, browse 
  and publish web sites, and chat on forums, without fear of censorship. 
  Users are anonymous, and Freenet is entirely decentralised. Without 
  anonymity there can never be true freedom of speech, and without 
  decentralisation the network would be vulnerable to attack. Learn more!'
 
  The What is Freenet? page now says:
  ' Freenet is free software which lets you anonymously share files, browse 
  and publish web sites (freesites), and chat on forums, without fear of 
  censorship. Users are anonymous, and Freenet is entirely decentralised. 
  Without anonymity there can never be true freedom of speech, and without 
  decentralisation the network would be vulnerable to attack.
 
  Communications by Freenet nodes are encrypted and are routed through other 
  nodes to make it extremely difficult to determine who is requesting the 
  information and what its content is.
 
  Users contribute to the network by giving bandwidth and a portion of their 
  hard drive (called the data store) for storing files. Files are 
  automatically kept or deleted depending on how popular they are, with the 
  least popular being discarded to make way for newer or more popular 
  content. Files are encrypted, so generally the user cannot easily discover 
  what is in his datastore, and hopefully can't be held accountable for it. 
  Chat forums, websites, and search functionality, are all built on top of 
  this distributed data store.
 
  Freenet has been downloaded by over 2 million users since the project 
  started, and used for the distribution of censored information all over the 
  world including countries such as China and the Middle East. Ideas and 
  concepts pioneered in Freenet have had a significant impact in the academic 
  world. Our 2000 paper Freenet: A Distributed Anonymous Information Storage 
  and Retrieval System was the most cited computer science paper of 2000 
  according to Citeseer, and Freenet has also inspired papers in the worlds 
  of law and philosophy. Ian Clarke, Freenet's creator and project 
  coordinator, was selected as one of the top 100 innovators of 2003 by MIT's 
  Technology Review magazine.
 
  An important recent development, which very few other networks have, is the 
  darknet: By only connecting to people they trust, users can greatly 
  reduce their vulnerability, and yet still connect to a global network 
  through their friends' friends' friends and so on. This enables people to 
  use Freenet even in places where Freenet may be illegal, makes it very 
  difficult for governments to block it, and does not rely on tunneling to 
  the free world.
 
  Sounds good? Try it!'
 
 
 I think that's better.
 
 I might change browse and publish web sites (freesites) to
 something like browse and publish freesites (freesites are like web
 sites, but hosted on Freenet).  The current version sounds somewhat
 like you could browse the normal web with Freenet.  Given that some
 new users are familiar with TOR, they may be expecting something like
 it; best not to feed those assumptions.

Okay:

 Freenet is free software which lets you anonymously share files, browse and 
publish freesites (web sites accessible only through Freenet), and chat on 
forums, without fear of censorship. Users are anonymous, and Freenet is 
entirely decentralised. Without anonymity there can never be true freedom of 
speech, and without decentralisation the network would be vulnerable to attack.

Learn more! 

(Note these are separate p's, IMHO emphasising learn more is good).


signature.asc
Description: This 

Re: [freenet-dev] usability testing

[Zero3]

Matthew Toseland skrev:
 On Sunday 14 June 2009 14:24:39 Zero3 wrote:
 a) On the front page of the website: A What is Freenet? teaser linking 
 to the What is Freenet? page would be cool. Confusedly started to read 
 the news item instead. (She should have spotted the News headline, but 
 I agree on the teaser)
 
 I think originally the reason for putting news on the main page was that a 
 lot of people check back on the website repeatedly, looking for new stuff 
 (i.e. news) ?:
 
 I agree we should have some basic explanation and link on the home page 
 though ... I am not quite sure whether just copying the first para from What 
 is Freenet as Dieppe has done is sufficient?
 
 Freenet is free software which lets you publish and obtain information on 
 the Internet without fear of censorship. To achieve this freedom, the network 
 is entirely decentralized and publishers and consumers of information are 
 anonymous. Without anonymity there can never be true freedom of speech, and 
 without decentralization the network will be vulnerable to attack.
 
 Followed by a link to learn more, a download link and news.
 
 Is this sufficiently comprehensible to newbies? I guess so, but it doesn't 
 really answer the question!

I think it's quite good actually! I think Without anonymity there can 
never be true freedom of speech) is a bit subjective though.

 b) FUD alert on the What is Freenet? page:

 Freenet does not let the user control what is stored in the data store. 
 [...] Files in the data store are encrypted to reduce the likelihood of 
 prosecution by persons wishing to censor Freenet content.

 (Agreed. We are scaring some people away before they even reach the 
 download page. I don't think we should hide the facts, but rather give a 
 reasoned explanation for the ways Freenet do things.)
 
 I guess there is a language issue here yeah...
 
 How about this? (deployed):
 
 'Users contribute to the network by giving bandwidth and a portion of their 
 hard drive (called the data store) for storing files. Files are 
 automatically kept or deleted depending on how popular they are, with the 
 least popular being discarded to make way for newer or more popular content. 
 Files are encrypted, so generally the user cannot easily discover what is in 
 his datastore, and hopefully can't be held accountable for it.'

Much better, yeah.

 c) On the Philosophy page: More focus on what Freenet actually *can 
 do* for citizens living under censorship and the like. 
 
 Isn't that what What is Freenet? is about?

Well, yeah, except it doesn't really say anything about it on that page 
either.

 d) FUD alert on the Download page:

 Anti-virus software: Severe problems have been reported with Kaspersky, 
 and other firewalls and antivirus software may also break Freenet's 
 installation. Having said that, we do NOT recommend that you turn off 
 your antivirus software on a Windows system; if installation doesn't 
 work, please contact us and we will try to find out what is wrong.

 (TBH we haven't had severe problems, and we don't know for sure if 
 Kaspersky was the fault (although it looks like it was). And we are only 
 talking about a single incident here - not and other firewalls and 
 antivirus software may also.)
 
 The problems were severe. However, it is true that other firewalls and 
 anti-virus software may not cause such problems. I have removed the warning.

His Freenet installation broke, But his system wasn't harmed in anyway. 
Hopefully this will be resolved by switching to using a non-custom user 
account for the service. It would still be cool with a contact who can 
reproduce this though.

 e) On the Download page: No idea what a node reference is. (Could be 
 rephrased or explained better)
 
 That's why it's in quotes, and the Add a friend page does explain it. Do 
 you have any suggestion as to how to improve the wording?

Perhaps add a paranthesis explaining the term?

 Very annoying to be asked to install a second  
 browser. In this case, a third (using FF with IE as backup. And user is 
 asked not to use IE). More FUD about history leaks. 
 
 FUD stands for Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. Unfortunately, the warnings about 
 browser history stealing are factually true. Perhaps there is an argument for 
 not naming such attacks if this intimidates people? Is the problem with IE 
 important? There are possibilities for working around it, there has never 
 been much enthusiasm for implementing them (even from ian who tends to be 
 usability oriented).

Exactly. The user is fears the consequences of history leaks and is 
uncertain what he ought to do, and thereby doubts his security and 
privacy using Freenet.

IMHO we are exaggerating with this warning page.

Dunno about IE? Is version 7/8 secure enough?

 No idea what a  
 browser profile is. 
 
 Should we not mention browser profiles at all? And let advanced users who 
 know about them figure it out themselves and feel smug?

I don't think we should. 

Re: [freenet-dev] Non-english windows users: does it pick up your language or do you need to set it?

[Zero3]

bo-le skrev:
 Am Dienstag, 16. Juni 2009 21:40:53 schrieb Zero3:
 Matthew Toseland skrev:
 On Sunday 14 June 2009 13:11:40 Zero3 wrote:
 Matthew Toseland skrev:
 This value is also passed on to the node via node.l10n=Deutsch
 (example for German) in freenet.ini. (I don't think that specifying a
 language by the localized name is ideal, but that seems to be how the
 node wants it. I *did* ask if this could be changed to standardized
 language IDs a while ago...)
 IIRC both work.
 Which kind of IDs does it accept? I'd really like to switch over to that
 instead.
 freenet.l10n.L10n.java shows you the strings:
   /** @see http://www.omniglot.com/language/names.htm; */
   public enum LANGUAGE {
   ENGLISH(en, English, eng),
   SPANISH(es, Español, spa),
   DANISH(da, Dansk, dan),
   GERMAN(de, Deutsch, deu),
   FINNISH(fi, Suomi, fin),
   FRENCH(fr, Français, fra),
   ITALIAN(it, Italiano, ita),
   NORWEGIAN(no, Norsk, nor),
   POLISH(pl, Polski, pol),
   SWEDISH(se, Svenska, svk),
   CHINESE(zh-cn, 中文(简体), chn),
   CHINESE_TAIWAN(zh-tw, 中文(繁體), zh-tw),
   UNLISTED(unlisted, unlisted, unlisted);
 
 any string listed here can be used.

Cool. But which standards do these follow? ISO 639, localized name 
and ISO 639-3 (though zh-tw seems wrong then)?

- Zero3
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[freenet-dev] website feedback

[Ian Clarke]

Some notes on the website from a friend of mine who does usability work:

i'd remove the cup image from the store because it becomes the most
prominent element on the page next to the logo itself.
I'd make the what is freenet bolder and at the top.
maybe even pull it out as a quote
FREENET -- share, publish and browse files anonymously
that's all I need to know to know if I am on the right page or not.
then you can have the expanded what is freenet section.
i think the quote is great but needs to go on an about page or something
because it's the reason behind the software not the software itself.

the other thing i'd do is make a very prominent download button with a
version or something.
let me find a good example of what i mean
http://jquery.com/
it's easy to find the download and i know without downloading if I am
already current

the last thing i'd mention is that you should fix the maximum width of
the text on the page. when you expand it too far then it becomes
unreadable

i still very much like your logo, i wish that it played a more
prominent roll somehow.

the site does look more clean than it did which is great i just
think that at this point you need to start adding content back in and
starting to organize whats most important to the user.

take this for example
http://skitch.com/heavysixer/bwcxd/firefox
this is for the bank ally i think they have a similar structure to
freenet in terms of getting people to understand the product and move
to the next step.
i've overlaid what i'd do if I were designing the site for you on top
of what they have now.
it seems more expressive and clear to me but not sure if that's what you think
ignore my horrible grammar too
it's a sketch!



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Email: i...@uprizer.com
Ph: +1 512 422 3588
Fax: +1 512 276 6674
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[freenet-dev] Beta of Windows tray icon + update.cmd updating

[Zero3]

I've successfully (I think?) branched the master branch of 
wininstaller-staging at github to a new beta branch. This branch now 
contains the upcoming Windows tray icon.

Please feel free to test. Even small fixes like spelling and grammar is 
more than welcome (because mine suck ;)).

Source: http://github.com/freenet/wininstaller-staging/tree/beta
Binary: http://privat.zero3.dk/FreenetInstaller_Beta.exe (old jars, 
seednodes, translations and so on. Not meant for anything but testing)

The update.cmd script will soon need to support the updating of various 
helper executables, most importantly freenetlauncher.exe, but if 
possible, all of them.

(Are these on the website somewhere yet Matthew? Along with a plan of 
how they are kept up-to-date...)

If update.cmd tries to update bin\freenettray.exe, it should first do 
something like:

taskkill /IM freenettray.exe
if not errorlevel 1 remember to start it again afterwards

(... as we can't update running Windows executables)

- Zero3
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Re: [freenet-dev] website feedback

[Matthew Toseland]

On Tuesday 16 June 2009 22:38:26 Ian Clarke wrote:
 Some notes on the website from a friend of mine who does usability work:
 
 i'd remove the cup image from the store because it becomes the most
 prominent element on the page next to the logo itself.

Agreed, current plan is to make the menu horizontal, in which case there would 
be nowhere to put it and it would just become a menu item (as text)... imho the 
current design with the logo and the vertical menu wastes a lot of space.

 I'd make the what is freenet bolder and at the top.
 maybe even pull it out as a quote
 FREENET -- share, publish and browse files anonymously

Maybe lose the files ? Freenet: Share, chat and browse anonymously ?

Would replace the current What is Freenet?, be the top thing below the title 
/ menu bar..

To avoid confusion: Share, chat and browse anonymously on the Free Network ??

That's what I've put up at the moment, and made it a h2 for more emphasis.

 that's all I need to know to know if I am on the right page or not.
 then you can have the expanded what is freenet section.
 i think the quote is great but needs to go on an about page or something
 because it's the reason behind the software not the software itself.

Done.
 
 the other thing i'd do is make a very prominent download button with a
 version or something.
 let me find a good example of what i mean
 http://jquery.com/
 it's easy to find the download and i know without downloading if I am
 already current

Okay, I've put up the button the students made, but we really need a better 
one, preferably with the version number and in an easy to edit form so we can 
update the version as needed (give us the original gimp files). Anyone able to 
improve on the current button? The drop-shadow is excessive, Ian would prefer 
something more firefoxy.

Or should we have the version separately, as on his page below?
 
 the last thing i'd mention is that you should fix the maximum width of
 the text on the page. when you expand it too far then it becomes
 unreadable

Not sure I understand this one. It seems to scale fine on Firefox for me.
 
 i still very much like your logo, i wish that it played a more
 prominent roll somehow.

Thanks Clement/Dieppe and the students for that one. IMHO there should be 
something next to it, the obvious thing is a horizontal menu.
 
 the site does look more clean than it did which is great i just
 think that at this point you need to start adding content back in and
 starting to organize whats most important to the user.

IMHO we haven't lost any content.
 
 take this for example
 http://skitch.com/heavysixer/bwcxd/firefox
 this is for the bank ally i think they have a similar structure to
 freenet in terms of getting people to understand the product and move
 to the next step.
 i've overlaid what i'd do if I were designing the site for you on top
 of what they have now.
 it seems more expressive and clear to me but not sure if that's what you think
 ignore my horrible grammar too
 it's a sketch!

Interesting...

You would keep the vertical menu - doesn't a horizontal one save space and fit 
better with the logo positioning?

Then replace the News section with screenshots ... anyone have any opinions 
about this? Clearly we would need to mention the version on or near the Get 
Freenet button ... Screenshots might help in terms of selling Freenet, although 
it has to look good in that case ... and we'd need the News page to maybe be 
more prominent, ideally with an RSS feed...


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[freenet-dev] Suggestion: Link to bugs needing feedback on the website

[Zero3]

In the bugtracker we have a long list of bugs that require 
user/community feedback. Right now, nobody seems to notice that.

I suggest we somehow promote this need for feedback to the website.

Possible solution: A How can I help? page with a link to:

https://bugs.freenetproject.org/search.php?project_id=1status_id=20sticky_issues=onsortby=last_updateddir=DESChighlight_changed=48hide_status_id=-2

... as well as a few words on how you can give feedback (either reply on 
bugtracker, send a mail to the devl list or catch someone in irc).

- Zero3
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Re: [freenet-dev] Beta of Windows tray icon + update.cmd updating

[Matthew Toseland]

On Tuesday 16 June 2009 23:16:58 Zero3 wrote:
 I've successfully (I think?) branched the master branch of 
 wininstaller-staging at github to a new beta branch. This branch now 
 contains the upcoming Windows tray icon.
 
 Please feel free to test. Even small fixes like spelling and grammar is 
 more than welcome (because mine suck ;)).
 
 Source: http://github.com/freenet/wininstaller-staging/tree/beta
 Binary: http://privat.zero3.dk/FreenetInstaller_Beta.exe (old jars, 
 seednodes, translations and so on. Not meant for anything but testing)

Cool!
 
 The update.cmd script will soon need to support the updating of various 
 helper executables, most importantly freenetlauncher.exe, but if 
 possible, all of them.

Ok.
 
 (Are these on the website somewhere yet Matthew? Along with a plan of 
 how they are kept up-to-date...)
 
 If update.cmd tries to update bin\freenettray.exe, it should first do 
 something like:
 
 taskkill /IM freenettray.exe
 if not errorlevel 1 remember to start it again afterwards
 
 (... as we can't update running Windows executables)

https://checksums.freenetproject.org/cc/[filename]
for filename in:
wrapper-windows-x86-32.exe wrapper-windows-x86-32.dll start.exe stop.exe 
freenetlauncher.exe 

Tag the wininstaller, and tell me, when you want them updating.


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[freenet-dev] need graphic design help

[Ian Clarke]

Ok, we need some help with the website, surely someone out there knows
their way around Gimp, or Adobe Illustrator or something, or has a
friend that does?

Highest priorities:

- Fix the logo on the website - it should be Freenet, not FreeNet

- Create a decent Get Freenet button, something vaguely like what
they have on http://getfirefox.com/ or http://jquery.com/.  Stuff like
Version should be overlayed in text, not drawn on the image, so that
it can be changed easily.

Any takers?

Ian.

-- 
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CEO, Uprizer Labs
Email: i...@uprizer.com
Ph: +1 512 422 3588
Fax: +1 512 276 6674
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Re: [freenet-dev] About the website

[Matthew Toseland]

On Monday 01 June 2009 01:24:24 Clément wrote:
 Hello all,
 
 about three weeks ago I had a HCI webproject to do. 
 The subject was : improve an existant website (well, I'm not 100% sure that 
 it 
 was the subject, but that what we've done)
 
 I convinced the three other people who worked with me to work on the freenet 
 website. It was a small project though (3 hours with a teacher in the room, + 
 3 hours max of personal time), so we didn't go far.
 
 But maybe some of what we've done could be usefull for the project.
 
 Here is the copy/paste of what we've done :
 
 --
 Objective of the new website: 
 - To improve the existing navigation controls of freenetproject.org
 - To improve it's structural presentation of information on home page
 
 
 Aim of the web-site:
 - to present the software product and provide support
 - documentation and tools to users and developers to allow them to use and 
 contribute to the software.
 
 Problems:
 The problems of current website http://freenetproject.org :
 - irrelevant information for homepage: mainly financial status, we don't know 
 what freenet is
 - too many items in left navigation menu and not really well structured
 - documentation section where subsections do not have direct hyperlinks - its 
 confusing
 
 Solutions we proposed:
 - simpler horizontal navigation bar with restructured tree
 - new menu tree proposition:
 
 Home -- what is freenet a bit modified page
 
 About freenet:
 what is freenet
 philosophy
 contributors
 
 Downloads:
 freenet
 tools
 
 Contribute:
 papers -- research and stuff
 developer
 
 Donations
 donate
 sponsors
 
 Support  feedback
 help --documentation and stuff
 faq --move out from help section
 mailing lists
 suggestions
 
 - restructuralization of documentation page
 - homepage holds only basic information presenting projects aim and latest 
 news
 --
 
 Of course, it's a very early draft, so it needs to be discussed.
 
 You'll find attached the files we produced. Please keep in mind it that the 
 aim 
 of the HCI project wasn't to have a pretty site, but a functionnal one (so, 
 it's not ugly, but it's not pretty either).
 
 Some files are missing, we mainly focused on the navigation and the structure 
 of the site. It's not very important though, since the contents are exactly 
 the same that already are on the current site.
 
 Oh, and I almost forgot : we should keep the financial status on the 
 homepage, 
 between the download link and the news (we got rid of it because we found on 
 the moment it wasn't relevant, but in fact, it's interesting to know about 
 the 
 financial health of a project).
 
 Last thing : I still don't have my grade for this project, so I don't know if 
 it's good job or not ;)
 
Is there any chance of reconstructing the logo without the CamelCase? It's 
always been Freenet not FreeNet.


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[freenet-dev] Good screenshots needed

[Matthew Toseland]

We need some (3?) screenshots. These must be legal, look reasonably good both 
in full and when thumbnailed to a reasonable size so we can put them on the 
homepage.

Alternatively, please explain why it would be bad to replace the news on the 
homepage with a few screenshots.


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Re: [freenet-dev] Good screenshots needed

[Evan Daniel]

On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 7:26 PM, Matthew
Toselandt...@amphibian.dyndns.org wrote:
 We need some (3?) screenshots. These must be legal, look reasonably good both 
 in full and when thumbnailed to a reasonable size so we can put them on the 
 homepage.

 Alternatively, please explain why it would be bad to replace the news on the 
 homepage with a few screenshots.

I would vote for a front page that had the title and (possibly) the
first paragraph of the most recent news item, with a read more link.
 It should be small enough to not take up too much of the
above-the-fold section.  Screenshots below that would be good.

Evan Daniel
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Re: [freenet-dev] Beta of Windows tray icon + update.cmd updating

[Juiceman]

On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 7:16 PM, Matthew
Toselandt...@amphibian.dyndns.org wrote:
 On Tuesday 16 June 2009 23:16:58 Zero3 wrote:
 I've successfully (I think?) branched the master branch of
 wininstaller-staging at github to a new beta branch. This branch now
 contains the upcoming Windows tray icon.

 Please feel free to test. Even small fixes like spelling and grammar is
 more than welcome (because mine suck ;)).

 Source: http://github.com/freenet/wininstaller-staging/tree/beta
 Binary: http://privat.zero3.dk/FreenetInstaller_Beta.exe (old jars,
 seednodes, translations and so on. Not meant for anything but testing)

 Cool!

 The update.cmd script will soon need to support the updating of various
 helper executables, most importantly freenetlauncher.exe, but if
 possible, all of them.

 Ok.

 (Are these on the website somewhere yet Matthew? Along with a plan of
 how they are kept up-to-date...)

 If update.cmd tries to update bin\freenettray.exe, it should first do
 something like:

 taskkill /IM freenettray.exe
 if not errorlevel 1 remember to start it again afterwards

 (... as we can't update running Windows executables)

 https://checksums.freenetproject.org/cc/[filename]
 for filename in:
 wrapper-windows-x86-32.exe wrapper-windows-x86-32.dll start.exe stop.exe 
 freenetlauncher.exe

It would be great if we could see the directory listing when we access
https://checksums.freenetproject.org/cc/ is this possible?

How do you suggest we check for newer versions of the files?
Downloading them all and then comparing is a waste of bandwidth... I
could compare the .sha1 of the files if those exist.  That would be
minuscule bandwidth.

I propose to start checking freenet-ext.jar this way, saving almost 4mb per run.

 Tag the wininstaller, and tell me, when you want them updating.

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Those who would give up Liberty, to purchase temporary Safety, deserve
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Re: [freenet-dev] usability testing

[Matthew Toseland]

On Tuesday 16 June 2009 21:53:09 Zero3 wrote:
 Matthew Toseland skrev:
  On Sunday 14 June 2009 14:24:39 Zero3 wrote:
  a) On the front page of the website: A What is Freenet? teaser linking 
  to the What is Freenet? page would be cool. Confusedly started to read 
  the news item instead. (She should have spotted the News headline, but 
  I agree on the teaser)
  
  I think originally the reason for putting news on the main page was that a 
  lot of people check back on the website repeatedly, looking for new stuff 
  (i.e. news) ?:
  
  I agree we should have some basic explanation and link on the home page 
  though ... I am not quite sure whether just copying the first para from 
  What is Freenet as Dieppe has done is sufficient?
  
  Freenet is free software which lets you publish and obtain information on 
  the Internet without fear of censorship. To achieve this freedom, the 
  network is entirely decentralized and publishers and consumers of 
  information are anonymous. Without anonymity there can never be true 
  freedom of speech, and without decentralization the network will be 
  vulnerable to attack.
  
  Followed by a link to learn more, a download link and news.
  
  Is this sufficiently comprehensible to newbies? I guess so, but it doesn't 
  really answer the question!
 
 I think it's quite good actually! I think Without anonymity there can 
 never be true freedom of speech) is a bit subjective though.

Alternatives? Clearly anonymity is a direct consequence of the overriding goal 
of thwarting censorship.
 
  b) FUD alert on the What is Freenet? page:
 
  Freenet does not let the user control what is stored in the data store. 
  [...] Files in the data store are encrypted to reduce the likelihood of 
  prosecution by persons wishing to censor Freenet content.
 
  (Agreed. We are scaring some people away before they even reach the 
  download page. I don't think we should hide the facts, but rather give a 
  reasoned explanation for the ways Freenet do things.)
  
  I guess there is a language issue here yeah...
  
  How about this? (deployed):
  
  'Users contribute to the network by giving bandwidth and a portion of their 
  hard drive (called the data store) for storing files. Files are 
  automatically kept or deleted depending on how popular they are, with the 
  least popular being discarded to make way for newer or more popular 
  content. Files are encrypted, so generally the user cannot easily discover 
  what is in his datastore, and hopefully can't be held accountable for it.'
 
 Much better, yeah.
 
  c) On the Philosophy page: More focus on what Freenet actually *can 
  do* for citizens living under censorship and the like. 
  
  Isn't that what What is Freenet? is about?
 
 Well, yeah, except it doesn't really say anything about it on that page 
 either.

It does now IMHO. Have you read the current version?
 
  d) FUD alert on the Download page:
 
  Anti-virus software: Severe problems have been reported with Kaspersky, 
  and other firewalls and antivirus software may also break Freenet's 
  installation. Having said that, we do NOT recommend that you turn off 
  your antivirus software on a Windows system; if installation doesn't 
  work, please contact us and we will try to find out what is wrong.
 
  (TBH we haven't had severe problems, and we don't know for sure if 
  Kaspersky was the fault (although it looks like it was). And we are only 
  talking about a single incident here - not and other firewalls and 
  antivirus software may also.)
  
  The problems were severe. However, it is true that other firewalls and 
  anti-virus software may not cause such problems. I have removed the warning.
 
 His Freenet installation broke, But his system wasn't harmed in anyway. 
 Hopefully this will be resolved by switching to using a non-custom user 
 account for the service. It would still be cool with a contact who can 
 reproduce this though.

I hope so...
 
  e) On the Download page: No idea what a node reference is. (Could be 
  rephrased or explained better)
  
  That's why it's in quotes, and the Add a friend page does explain it. Do 
  you have any suggestion as to how to improve the wording?
 
 Perhaps add a paranthesis explaining the term?

Is it a problem? If he clicks the link to Add a Friend it will explain it to 
him?
 
  Very annoying to be asked to install a second  
  browser. In this case, a third (using FF with IE as backup. And user is 
  asked not to use IE). More FUD about history leaks. 
  
  FUD stands for Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. Unfortunately, the warnings 
  about browser history stealing are factually true. Perhaps there is an 
  argument for not naming such attacks if this intimidates people? Is the 
  problem with IE important? There are possibilities for working around it, 
  there has never been much enthusiasm for implementing them (even from ian 
  who tends to be usability oriented).
 
 Exactly. The user is fears the consequences of 

Re: [freenet-dev] Beta of Windows tray icon + update.cmd updating

[Matthew Toseland]

On Wednesday 17 June 2009 00:48:44 Juiceman wrote:
 On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 7:16 PM, Matthew
 Toselandt...@amphibian.dyndns.org wrote:
  On Tuesday 16 June 2009 23:16:58 Zero3 wrote:
  I've successfully (I think?) branched the master branch of
  wininstaller-staging at github to a new beta branch. This branch now
  contains the upcoming Windows tray icon.
 
  Please feel free to test. Even small fixes like spelling and grammar is
  more than welcome (because mine suck ;)).
 
  Source: http://github.com/freenet/wininstaller-staging/tree/beta
  Binary: http://privat.zero3.dk/FreenetInstaller_Beta.exe (old jars,
  seednodes, translations and so on. Not meant for anything but testing)
 
  Cool!
 
  The update.cmd script will soon need to support the updating of various
  helper executables, most importantly freenetlauncher.exe, but if
  possible, all of them.
 
  Ok.
 
  (Are these on the website somewhere yet Matthew? Along with a plan of
  how they are kept up-to-date...)
 
  If update.cmd tries to update bin\freenettray.exe, it should first do
  something like:
 
  taskkill /IM freenettray.exe
  if not errorlevel 1 remember to start it again afterwards
 
  (... as we can't update running Windows executables)
 
  https://checksums.freenetproject.org/cc/[filename]
  for filename in:
  wrapper-windows-x86-32.exe wrapper-windows-x86-32.dll start.exe stop.exe 
  freenetlauncher.exe
 
 It would be great if we could see the directory listing when we access
 https://checksums.freenetproject.org/cc/ is this possible?
 
 How do you suggest we check for newer versions of the files?
 Downloading them all and then comparing is a waste of bandwidth... I
 could compare the .sha1 of the files if those exist.  That would be
 minuscule bandwidth.
 
 I propose to start checking freenet-ext.jar this way, saving almost 4mb per 
 run.

Yes, that is exactly how it is supposed to work. Furthermore, checking the 
.sha1 over HTTPS is a good thing in terms of security. So please go for it!
 
  Tag the wininstaller, and tell me, when you want them updating.


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Re: [freenet-dev] website feedback

[Clément]

On Wednesday 17 June 2009 00:32:05 Matthew Toseland wrote:
 On Tuesday 16 June 2009 22:38:26 Ian Clarke wrote:
  Some notes on the website from a friend of mine who does usability work:
 
  i'd remove the cup image from the store because it becomes the most
  prominent element on the page next to the logo itself.

 Agreed, current plan is to make the menu horizontal, in which case there
 would be nowhere to put it and it would just become a menu item (as
 text)... imho the current design with the logo and the vertical menu wastes
 a lot of space.

  I'd make the what is freenet bolder and at the top.
  maybe even pull it out as a quote
  FREENET -- share, publish and browse files anonymously

 Maybe lose the files ? Freenet: Share, chat and browse anonymously ?

 Would replace the current What is Freenet?, be the top thing below the
 title / menu bar..

 To avoid confusion: Share, chat and browse anonymously on the Free
 Network ??

 That's what I've put up at the moment, and made it a h2 for more
 emphasis.

  that's all I need to know to know if I am on the right page or not.
  then you can have the expanded what is freenet section.
  i think the quote is great but needs to go on an about page or something
  because it's the reason behind the software not the software itself.

 Done.

  the other thing i'd do is make a very prominent download button with a
  version or something.
  let me find a good example of what i mean
  http://jquery.com/
  it's easy to find the download and i know without downloading if I am
  already current

 Okay, I've put up the button the students made, but we really need a better
 one, preferably with the version number and in an easy to edit form so we
 can update the version as needed (give us the original gimp files). Anyone
 able to improve on the current button? The drop-shadow is excessive, Ian
 would prefer something more firefoxy.

I asked my girlfriend to do it. She's playing with gimp since about 2 months, 
and she made some cute things. Dunno if it will fit our needs, but worth the 
try. Btw, we didn't ship the button in the version we gave to our prof, I just 
made it with inkscape in 10 minutes, and its only purpose was to present where 
the button should be (a link looked quite bad...). 
 Or should we have the version separately, as on his page below?

  the last thing i'd mention is that you should fix the maximum width of
  the text on the page. when you expand it too far then it becomes
  unreadable

 Not sure I understand this one. It seems to scale fine on Firefox for me.

It scales fine, but we should have a max size : when a paragraph is too large, 
it doesn't help the readability (?). Well, that's how I understand it.
  i still very much like your logo, i wish that it played a more
  prominent roll somehow.

 Thanks Clement/Dieppe and the students for that one. IMHO there should be
 something next to it, the obvious thing is a horizontal menu.

  the site does look more clean than it did which is great i just
  think that at this point you need to start adding content back in and
  starting to organize whats most important to the user.

 IMHO we haven't lost any content.

  take this for example
  http://skitch.com/heavysixer/bwcxd/firefox
  this is for the bank ally i think they have a similar structure to
  freenet in terms of getting people to understand the product and move
  to the next step.
  i've overlaid what i'd do if I were designing the site for you on top
  of what they have now.
  it seems more expressive and clear to me but not sure if that's what you
  think ignore my horrible grammar too
  it's a sketch!

 Interesting...

 You would keep the vertical menu - doesn't a horizontal one save space and
 fit better with the logo positioning?

 Then replace the News section with screenshots ... anyone have any opinions
 about this? Clearly we would need to mention the version on or near the Get
 Freenet button ... Screenshots might help in terms of selling Freenet,
 although it has to look good in that case ... and we'd need the News page
 to maybe be more prominent, ideally with an RSS feed...

I still think we should have news on the homepage : when I go on a site and I 
don't see any news, it give me the feelings that the project is almost dead.

Maybe we could do like many sites : just put the title of the news linking to 
the body of the news, maybe in a list in the right ?

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Re: [freenet-dev] need graphic design help

[Clément]

On Wednesday 17 June 2009 01:18:28 Ian Clarke wrote:
 Ok, we need some help with the website, surely someone out there knows
 their way around Gimp, or Adobe Illustrator or something, or has a
 friend that does?

 Highest priorities:

 - Fix the logo on the website - it should be Freenet, not FreeNet

See attached (I sent the svg file, so everyone can edit it).
 - Create a decent Get Freenet button, something vaguely like what
 they have on http://getfirefox.com/ or http://jquery.com/.  Stuff like
 Version should be overlayed in text, not drawn on the image, so that
 it can be changed easily.

I asked my girlfriend for that. It should be done by tomorrow. I can't have 
any guarantee for the result of course :)
 Any takers?

 Ian.

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[freenet-dev] The new blue gradient website background

[Daniel Cheng]

Just a quick notes:

Blue Gradient background won't work, because:

 -- BLUE have low contrast with the black text

 -- our rabbit logo is blue, even lower contrast

 -- the website ian suggested ( getfirefox/ jquery)
and other well-design webpage does NOT
use gradient as _text_ background AT ALL..
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Re: [freenet-dev] need graphic design help

[Gerard Krol]

Clément wrote:

On Wednesday 17 June 2009 01:18:28 Ian Clarke wrote:
  

Ok, we need some help with the website, surely someone out there knows
their way around Gimp, or Adobe Illustrator or something, or has a
friend that does?

Highest priorities:

- Fix the logo on the website - it should be Freenet, not FreeNet



See attached (I sent the svg file, so everyone can edit it).
  
I made the text bold and move the rabbit behind it. It now looks vaguely 
familiar.

I don't hope I copied some other well known logo.

Let me know what you think!

- Gerard
inline: freenet_logo.svg___
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Re: [freenet-dev] The new blue gradient website background

[Clément]

On Wednesday 17 June 2009 02:06:06 Daniel Cheng wrote:
 Just a quick notes:

 Blue Gradient background won't work, because:

  -- BLUE have low contrast with the black text

I disagree here : black text on light blue have a good contrast.

  -- our rabbit logo is blue, even lower contrast

Agreed.
  -- the website ian suggested ( getfirefox/ jquery)
 and other well-design webpage does NOT
 use gradient as _text_ background AT ALL..
Agreed.

We should fine a better background (I showed it to my girlfriend who said it 
looks 80s...). Globally, we could use this to find good colours : 
http://colorschemedesigner.com/

We already have one colour fixed (rabbit blue (0077bf)). What looks good with 
that is orange, but a orange background looks ugly. We could have a black 
background, but white on black is difficult to read.
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Re: [freenet-dev] The new blue gradient website background

[Arne Babenhauserheide]

Am Mittwoch, 17. Juni 2009 02:06:06 schrieb Daniel Cheng:
 Blue Gradient background won't work, because:

But it looked very nice to me, and I could read the text quite well... 

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- 
   - singing a part of the history of free software -
  http://infinite-hands.draketo.de




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Re: [freenet-dev] Beta of Windows tray icon + update.cmd updating

[Juiceman]

On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 7:53 PM, Matthew
Toselandt...@amphibian.dyndns.org wrote:
 On Wednesday 17 June 2009 00:48:44 Juiceman wrote:
 On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 7:16 PM, Matthew
 Toselandt...@amphibian.dyndns.org wrote:
  On Tuesday 16 June 2009 23:16:58 Zero3 wrote:
  I've successfully (I think?) branched the master branch of
  wininstaller-staging at github to a new beta branch. This branch now
  contains the upcoming Windows tray icon.
 
  Please feel free to test. Even small fixes like spelling and grammar is
  more than welcome (because mine suck ;)).
 
  Source: http://github.com/freenet/wininstaller-staging/tree/beta
  Binary: http://privat.zero3.dk/FreenetInstaller_Beta.exe (old jars,
  seednodes, translations and so on. Not meant for anything but testing)
 
  Cool!
 
  The update.cmd script will soon need to support the updating of various
  helper executables, most importantly freenetlauncher.exe, but if
  possible, all of them.
 
  Ok.
 
  (Are these on the website somewhere yet Matthew? Along with a plan of
  how they are kept up-to-date...)
 
  If update.cmd tries to update bin\freenettray.exe, it should first do
  something like:
 
  taskkill /IM freenettray.exe
  if not errorlevel 1 remember to start it again afterwards
 
  (... as we can't update running Windows executables)
 
  https://checksums.freenetproject.org/cc/[filename]
  for filename in:
  wrapper-windows-x86-32.exe wrapper-windows-x86-32.dll start.exe stop.exe 
  freenetlauncher.exe

 It would be great if we could see the directory listing when we access
 https://checksums.freenetproject.org/cc/ is this possible?

 How do you suggest we check for newer versions of the files?
 Downloading them all and then comparing is a waste of bandwidth... I
 could compare the .sha1 of the files if those exist.  That would be
 minuscule bandwidth.

 I propose to start checking freenet-ext.jar this way, saving almost 4mb per 
 run.

 Yes, that is exactly how it is supposed to work. Furthermore, checking the 
 .sha1 over HTTPS is a good thing in terms of security. So please go for it!

I can't tell for sure because directory listing is denied on that
folder of the website, but I don't think the .sha1 files for the
downloads are in https://checksums.freenetproject.org/cc/
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Re: [freenet-dev] The new blue gradient website background

[Ian Clarke]

We desperately need someone to take ownership of the website, and
particularly its design.  This person doesn't need to be Pablo
Picasso, but they do need some aesthetic sensibilities.

Any volunteers?

Ian.

On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 7:06 PM, Daniel Chengj16sdiz+free...@gmail.com wrote:
 Just a quick notes:

 Blue Gradient background won't work, because:

     -- BLUE have low contrast with the black text

     -- our rabbit logo is blue, even lower contrast

     -- the website ian suggested ( getfirefox/ jquery)
        and other well-design webpage does NOT
        use gradient as _text_ background AT ALL..
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-- 
Ian Clarke
CEO, Uprizer Labs
Email: i...@uprizer.com
Ph: +1 512 422 3588
Fax: +1 512 276 6674
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Re: [freenet-dev] Good screenshots needed

[Ian Clarke]

I've been doing quite a bit of work in my day job with people who have
done a vast amount of testing of the effectiveness of different
website designs.

If I were to condense what I've learned into a single caveman
sentence, it would be:

  Big dense blocks of text: BAD, Pictures: GOOD

Screenshots are important, when I want to get a sense of a piece of
software one of the first things I look for is a screenshot.

Ian.

-- 
Ian Clarke
CEO, Uprizer Labs
Email: i...@uprizer.com
Ph: +1 512 422 3588
Fax: +1 512 276 6674
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Re: [freenet-dev] About the website

[Luke771]

Matthew Toseland wrote:
 On Tuesday 16 June 2009 03:18:47 Evan Daniel wrote:
   
 On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Matthew
 Toselandt...@amphibian.dyndns.org wrote:
 
 I have done the first phase of deploying this, after discussions with Ian. 
 We use the new background and the new logo, but we waste a lot of space on 
 the top line with the banner, and we don't use the horizontal menu yet as 
 we need to implement the sub-menus. Also I have rewritten the What is 
 Freenet? page with some input from Ian.
   
 Looking at the new version, it feels like it's targetted to an
 snip
 

 Okay. The homepage now says:
 snip
Freenet has been downloaded by over 2 million users 

Should be has been downloaded over 2 million times.
After all, I downloaded it at least 15 or 20 times...
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Re: [freenet-dev] About the website

[Luke771]

Evan Daniel wrote:
 On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 1:52 PM, Matthew
 Toselandt...@amphibian.dyndns.org wrote:
   
 On Tuesday 16 June 2009 03:18:47 Evan Daniel wrote:
 
 On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Matthew
 Toselandt...@amphibian.dyndns.org wrote:
   
 I have done the first phase of deploying this, after discussions with Ian. 
 We use the new background and the new logo, but we waste a lot of space on 
 the top line with the banner, and we don't use the horizontal menu yet 
 as we need to implement the sub-menus. Also I have rewritten the What is 
 Freenet? page with some input from Ian.
 
 Looking at the new version, it feels like it's targetted to an
 academic who is interested in the theory of anonymous networks.  IMHO,
 snip
   
 Okay. The homepage now says:
 ' Freenet is free software which lets you anonymously share files, browse 
 and publish web sites, and chat on forums, without fear 
snip
 I think that's better.

 I might change browse and publish web sites (freesites) to
 snip
Browse and publish 'freesites' (Freenet-hosted websites)
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