Re: [digitalradio] Re: Oregon Governor Allocates $250,000 for Digital Communications Network

[Ed]

>Not knocking the volunteers for sure.  I do have a question.  How come
>the money wasn't invested in public safety equipment using public
>safety NTIA assigned frequencies to do the same thing?


  the cost involved to purchase 
commercial equipment, antennas, peripherals, labor to install, and money to 
implement training for multiple employees,  for every county in the 
State. That $250.000 would be a drop in the bucket.   The State is 
getting one heck of a deal by providing this equipment to the local ham 
ARES/RACES county groups and letting those hams provide all the rest of the 
necessities.


  Ed   K7AAT

Re: FW: [digitalradio] Re: Oregon Governor Allocates $250,000 for Digital Communications Network

[Alan Barrow]

Patricia (Elaine) Gibbons wrote:
> It does amaze me to see some members of the amateur radio community
> start whining after public and/or private agencies officially recognize
>  
> ***and support*** the value of the amateur radio service during disaster
> response and recovery operations
Elaine, you are absolutely right. I've been biting my tongue on this.

The reason EOC's install ham equipment is not to replace other full time 
RF needs, it's to supplement it in times of disaster when hams respond.

There is no other groups which fills this need. The govt could not 
afford to pay employees, buy commercial gear, and deploy the people, 
etc. It does not exist. If we don't do it, it will not get done. There 
simply are not enough Red Cross emergency communications vans, etc to go 
around. Period. And it's part of our charter. The very first item 
listed. (more below)

I firsthand < http://www.pinztrek.com/katrina > saw the impact of total 
loss of normal communications and how ham radio was able to fill that 
gap. No, I did not save a life, handheld in my teeth. But we did do 
good, made a difference, and maybe prevented things from deteriorating. 
When there are no communications at all, even very simple 2m and HF nets 
are a quantum leap forward!

And you know what? I'm proud that Amateur radio was able to repay some 
of what we have been granted over the years. I know of several hundred 
non-ham residents in coastal Miss I came in contact with who will be 
very unlikely to support any attack on ham privileges because of the 
exposure we had in Katrina. And that was just my small bit from a week 
onsite.

To the point that I'm ashamed of all the whining, second guessing, "we  
should not allow emergency service on our bands", "it's a hobby, no 
public service", "they should buy their own freqs & radios" that goes 
around.  I've never seen such a selfish, bitter attitude, and I ashamed 
for all of us.

I'm going to go way back to 1928 and drag something out:

*The Radio Amateur is*

*CONSIDERATE...*never knowingly operates in such a way as to lessen the 
pleasure of others.

*LOYAL...*offers loyalty, encouragement and support to other amateurs, 
local clubs, and the American Radio Relay League, through which Amateur 
Radio in the United States is represented nationally and internationally.

*PROGRESSIVE...*with knowledge abreast of science, a well-built and 
efficient station and operation above reproach.

*FRIENDLY...*slow and patient operating when requested; friendly advice 
and counsel to the beginner; kindly assistance, cooperation and 
consideration for the interests of others. These are the hallmarks of 
the amateur spirit.

*BALANCED...*radio is an avocation, never interfering with duties owed 
to family, job, school or community.

*PATRIOTIC...*station and skill always ready for service to country and 
community.

How does all the whining reconcile with the amateur radio code? No, not 
morse. The operating code we should all try to follow.

I've seen part 97 quoted dozens of times How bout reading starting 
at the beginning?


  PART 97


  Subpart A--General Provisions

§97.1 Basis and purpose.

The rules and regulations in this Part are designed to provide an 
amateur radio service having a fundamental purpose as expressed in the 
following principles:

(a) Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to 
the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, 
particularly with respect to providing emergency communications.

(b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to 
contribute to the advancement of the radio art.

(c) Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through rules 
which provide for advancing skills in both the communications and 
technical phases of the art.

(d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service 
of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts.

(e) Continuation and extension of the amateur's unique ability to 
enhance international goodwill.


Yep, the very first clause (97.1A) speaks very clearly about the role of 
amateur radio. How do all the arguments and rationalizations look when 
you read the purpose as defined by the FCC for amateur radio. Not the 
ARRL. But the folks who carved out and controls the resources we use.

This is a bigger issue than winlink operating style, legal or not. We 
all get annoyed at times at other ops. Some are worse than others.

But the idea that emergency/public service has no place in amateur radio 
is flawed. And to try to use that as an argument to get rid of an 
operating mode you do not like does us all a dis-service.

Should winlinkers listen before initiating contact to a PMBO? 
Absolutely. I think most do. Some may not. Some do, and transmit anyway. 
So what's new, there are rude people all over the bands. Going to ban 
these modes as well?.

- DX Pileup working split. hundreds of ops stepping on each other, and 
the

RE: [digitalradio] Re: Oregon Governor Allocates $250,000 for Digital Communications Network

[dalite01]

FWIW, some of these agencies already use sophisticated HF systems with ALE
and very advanced DSP implementations for Voice use.
 
Some are interlinked with SHARES, MARS or both on NITA Frequencies.  
 
A recent FEMA NECN exercise recorded 598 stations from 31 federal state and
civil agencies and entities.
 
None of these were via Amateur Radio frequencies, albeit many operators held
valid Amateur licenses.  By the same token, many did not.
 
This was from The FEMA National Radio System (FNARS) National Emergency
Coordination Net (NECN) quarterly exercise was conducted December 17, 2007.

 
These all had to be considered operators in that they did make the contact
and were acknowledged as contacts of the exercise.  
 
The number of contacts was limited by the request that some suppport
organizations only batch the total participation of "subnets" held during
the operational period.  
 
I am extremely happy with the support our hospitals, EOC/911 Center, Police,
Fire, Public Health and other organizations has shown for Amateur Radio in
our commiunity.  
 
I also am aware of their plans to obtain equipment of their own so they will
not only be able to produce operators from within their ranks, but also
possess the equipment needed.  
 
Our County Police Chief had us build 4 briefcase VHF setups complete with
magmount antenna and power cable to allow easy setup at the 4 POD (Point of
Distribution) locations.  He also plans to have them manned by local amateur
radio operators as soon as possible after disaster recovery commences, to
allow his resources to resume duty on the street.  He has placed that much
trust in Amateur Radio.  He is also one of the 30 new public safety hams
licensed last year in our county.  
 
Our EOC director, Fire Department Chief and other support staff also were
among that group.  I expect this trend to increase in both terms of scope
and magnatude in the months to come.  
 
The playing field is definately shifting.  Amateur Radio is important and
Amateur Radio operators are certainly in demand.  But, there is no corner on
the market held by an all volunteer resource pool.  
 
David  
KD4NUE
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
 -Original Message-
From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rud Merriam
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 4:18 PM
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [digitalradio] Re: Oregon Governor Allocates $250,000 for
Digital Communications Network



How is the government going to get operators? Any full time staff will have
a multitude of other duties to perform. 

As a taxpayer you should appreciate the government supporting volunteers and
obtaining equipment that is less costly than the equivalent commercial gear.

Rud Merriam K5RUD 
ARES AEC Montgomery County, TX
http://TheHamNetwor <http://TheHamNetwork.net> k.net

-Original Message-
From: digitalradio@ <mailto:digitalradio%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
[mailto:digitalradio@ <mailto:digitalradio%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of jgorman01
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 11:29 AM
To: digitalradio@ <mailto:digitalradio%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Oregon Governor Allocates $250,000 for Digital
Communications Network

Not knocking the volunteers for sure. I do have a question. How come the
money wasn't invested in public safety equipment using public safety NTIA
assigned frequencies to do the same thing? These don't require ham licenses
to operate and could expand the resource pool of operators. As a taxpayer,
I would want to know why my government has to rely on volunteers to provide
public safety communications. 

I know the current administration and politicians probably have every
intention of letting the equipment stay with ARES. But, as you know, things
change, sometimes for the worse. This may not always be the case. And even
if it happens in your area, it may not occur elsewhere. I'm just worried we
are setting ourselves up to be "purchased" sometime in the future.

Jim
WA0LYK



 

Re: [digitalradio] Re: Oregon Governor Allocates $250,000 for Digital Communications Network

[Rick Johnson]

So you think we have problems with PacTor 3 in the Ham bands.watch this 
video before it's removed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuBo4E77ZXo 

de Rick  W3BI


- Original Message 
From: jgorman01 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2008 7:47:17 AM
Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Oregon Governor Allocates $250,000 for Digital 
Communications Network

Does this ever increasing number of government agencies doing this
scare the bejeebers out of anybody. That is, the government buying
permanent infrastructure and someday wanting a return on investment,
like using it to augment regular communications?

Jim
WA0LYK

--- In digitalradio@ yahoogroups. com, Jack Chomley  wrote:
>
> At 07:35 PM 1/9/2008, you wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> >
> >Oregon Governor Allocates $250,000 for Digital Communications Network
> >
> >
> >
> >The State of Oregon's Office of Emergency Management (OEM) received 
> >$250,000 from Governor Ted Kulongoski's Strategic Reserve Fund to 
> >further develop and enhance a statewide Amateur Radio digital 
> >communications network, announced ARRL Oregon Section Manager Bonnie 
> >Altus, AB7ZQ.
> >
> >
> >
> >"This network, the Oregon ARES Digital Network 
> >(<http://ares. csepp.net/ d3web/OADN. pdf>OADN), 
> >http://ares. csepp.net/ d3web/OADN. pdf already uses a combination of 
> >different radio equipment and spectrum segments, computers and the 
> >Internet to provide a robust backup communications system in times 
> >of disaster. With its enhancements, all Oregon counties will be able 
> >to communicate with the state OEM," she said. "In December, this 
> >system proved its usefulness in the storms and floods by utilizing 
> ><http://www.winlink. org/>Winlink http://www.winlink. org/ stations in 
> >Lincoln and Clatsop Counties to communicate with OEM. Early in that 
> >activation, the OEM's Amateur Radio Unit found they were not able to 
> >keep up with maintaining a complete log of communications when using 
> >voice communications, but Winlink activities maintained an automatic 
> >log for them."
> >
> >
> >
> >According to Altus, the primary purpose of the OADN is to provide 
> >back-up digital communications capabilities between county Emergency 
> >Operations Centers and Oregon Emergency Management and other state 
> >agencies in Salem, in the event that normal communications systems 
> >fail in an emergency.
> >
> >
> >
> >During the December storms, Amateur Radio operators were there to 
> >help. After a visit to one of the severely affected towns, Governor 
> >Kulongoski said, "I'm going to tell you who the heroes were from the 
> >very beginning of this...the ham radio operators. These people just 
> >came in and actually provided a tremendous communication link to 
> >us." Oregon's OEM said the radio operators were "tireless in their 
> >efforts to keep the systems connected. When even state police had 
> >difficulty reaching some of their own troops, ham radio worked, 
> >setting up networks so emergency officials could communicate and 
> >relaying lists of supplies needed in stricken areas."
> >
> >
> >
> >Through an Intergovernmental Agreement between the individual county 
> >Emergency Mangers and Oregon's Office of Emergency Management, 
> >ARES/RACES groups in each county will be responsible for 
> >installation, maintenance and operation the network.
> 
> 
> M... .looks like enough money to "buy" some dedicated 
> commercial frequencies, to move WinLink off the Ham bands :-)
> 
> 73s
> 
> Jack VK4JRC
>





  

Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Re: [digitalradio] Re: Oregon Governor Allocates $250,000 for Digital Communications Network

[Rodney]

Unless the affected Counties have been able to change out or reprogram their 
equipment to be able to operate in Narrow Band mode, they can't operate on 
those frequencies!

They are designated for Narrow Band operation only!

jgorman01 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:   Not knocking 
the volunteers for sure.  I do have a question.  How come
 the money wasn't invested in public safety equipment using public
 safety NTIA assigned frequencies to do the same thing? These don't
 require ham licenses to operate and could expand the resource pool of
 operators.  As a taxpayer, I would want to know why my government has
 to rely on volunteers to provide public safety communications.  
 
 I know the current administration and politicians probably have every
 intention of letting the equipment stay with ARES.  But, as you know,
 things change, sometimes for the worse.  This may not always be the
 case.  And even if it happens in your area, it may not occur
 elsewhere.  I'm just worried we are setting ourselves up to be
 "purchased" sometime in the future.
 
 Jim
 WA0LYK
 
 --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Rodney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 >
 > Jim, and everyone else,
 >
 >   I am the Radio Tech for Clackamas County, Oregon and I KNOW the
 problems that the Hams have getting Digital communications going to
 and from a disaster scene!
 >
 >   My experience with the ARES units in Oregon and our local County
 OEM is that the equipment that they, the "Government", buys for ARES
 use STAYS with and FOR ARES use!
 >
 >   We have a VERY, VERY proactive EC in our District and trust me
 when I say that the County Goverments and the State OEM keep their
 hands off the Hams!  After all, Hams are VOLUNTEERS and it wouldn't
 take much for the Hams to back off and let the State and County
 Governments to flounder and get a very BAD reputation!
 >
 >   No, this money that our Governor has given the State OEM for this
 project is legit!  
 >
 >   Our Amateur Radio community has impressed him on more than one
 occassion and he's serious!
 >
 >   Rod
 >   KC7CJO
 >   Clackamas County Electronic Services, Radio Shop
 >   
 > 
 > jgorman01 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 >   Does this ever increasing number of government agencies
 doing this
 > scare the bejeebers out of anybody. That is, the government buying
 > permanent infrastructure and someday wanting a return on investment,
 > like using it to augment regular communications?
 > 
 > Jim
 > WA0LYK
 > 
 > --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Jack Chomley  wrote:
 > >
 > > At 07:35 PM 1/9/2008, you wrote:
 > > 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > >
 > > >Oregon Governor Allocates $250,000 for Digital Communications Network
 > > >
 > > >
 > > >
 > > >The State of Oregon's Office of Emergency Management (OEM) received 
 > > >$250,000 from Governor Ted Kulongoski's Strategic Reserve Fund to 
 > > >further develop and enhance a statewide Amateur Radio digital 
 > > >communications network, announced ARRL Oregon Section Manager Bonnie 
 > > >Altus, AB7ZQ.
 > > >
 > > >
 > > >
 > > >"This network, the Oregon ARES Digital Network 
 > > >(OADN), 
 > > >http://ares.csepp.net/d3web/OADN.pdf already uses a combination of 
 > > >different radio equipment and spectrum segments, computers and the 
 > > >Internet to provide a robust backup communications system in times 
 > > >of disaster. With its enhancements, all Oregon counties will be able 
 > > >to communicate with the state OEM," she said. "In December, this 
 > > >system proved its usefulness in the storms and floods by utilizing 
 > > >Winlink http://www.winlink.org/ stations in 
 > > >Lincoln and Clatsop Counties to communicate with OEM. Early in that 
 > > >activation, the OEM's Amateur Radio Unit found they were not able to 
 > > >keep up with maintaining a complete log of communications when using 
 > > >voice communications, but Winlink activities maintained an automatic 
 > > >log for them."
 > > >
 > > >
 > > >
 > > >According to Altus, the primary purpose of the OADN is to provide 
 > > >back-up digital communications capabilities between county Emergency 
 > > >Operations Centers and Oregon Emergency Management and other state 
 > > >agencies in Salem, in the event that normal communications systems 
 > > >fail in an emergency.
 > > >
 > > >
 > > >
 > > >During the December storms, Amateur Radio operators were there to 
 > > >help. After a visit to one of the severely affected towns, Governor 
 > > >Kulongoski said, "I'm going to tell you who the heroes were from the 
 > > >very beginning of this...the ham radio operators. These people just 
 > > >came in and actually provided a tremendous communication link to 
 > > >us." Oregon's OEM said the radio operators were "tireless in their 
 > > >efforts to keep the systems connected. When even state police had 
 > > >difficulty reaching some of their own troops, ham radio worked, 
 > > >

RE: [digitalradio] Re: Oregon Governor Allocates $250,000 for Digital Communications Network

[Rud Merriam]

How is the government going to get operators? Any full time staff will have
a multitude of other duties to perform. 

As a taxpayer you should appreciate the government supporting volunteers and
obtaining equipment that is less costly than the equivalent commercial gear.


 
Rud Merriam K5RUD 
ARES AEC Montgomery County, TX
http://TheHamNetwork.net


-Original Message-
From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of jgorman01
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 11:29 AM
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Oregon Governor Allocates $250,000 for Digital
Communications Network


Not knocking the volunteers for sure.  I do have a question.  How come the
money wasn't invested in public safety equipment using public safety NTIA
assigned frequencies to do the same thing? These don't require ham licenses
to operate and could expand the resource pool of operators.  As a taxpayer,
I would want to know why my government has to rely on volunteers to provide
public safety communications.  

I know the current administration and politicians probably have every
intention of letting the equipment stay with ARES.  But, as you know, things
change, sometimes for the worse.  This may not always be the case.  And even
if it happens in your area, it may not occur elsewhere.  I'm just worried we
are setting ourselves up to be "purchased" sometime in the future.

Jim
WA0LYK

FW: [digitalradio] Re: Oregon Governor Allocates $250,000 for Digital Communications Network

[Patricia (Elaine) Gibbons]

 
Rod, it is really great that you are a member of both the amateur radio
community and the public safety communications community .. 
 
It does amaze me to see some members of the amateur radio community
start whining after public and/or private agencies officially recognize
***and support*** the value of the amateur radio service during disaster
response and recovery operations, and then especially start whining
when Winlink is being adopted as a redundant means for email 
communications. 
 
FWIW,  our City of San Jose Office of Emergency Services has had
HF/VHF/UHF radio communications equipment installed in both
the main and alternate EOC locations since the early 1990's and has
recently been upgraded with replacement equipment over the past
two years. It also includes HF Pactor and VHF/220 MHz packet
messaging as part of a County-wide digital messaging infrastructure. 
 
The San Jose equipment includes not only amateur radio equipment, 
but also commercial /\/\otorola, and Harris equipment that is used 
in the amateur radio service by our ARES/RACES volunteers. 
 
Elaine
--
Patricia (Elaine) Gibbons
Communications Services Manager
City of San Jose ITD/Communications Division 
(now retired after 30 years in public safety comms)
WA6UBE / AAR9JA
http://www.qrz.com/wa6ube 
 

  _  

From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rodney
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 8:18 AM
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: Oregon Governor Allocates $250,000 for
Digital Communications Network




Jim, and everyone else,
 
I am the Radio Tech for Clackamas County, Oregon and I KNOW the problems
that the Hams have getting Digital communications going to and from a
disaster scene!
 
My experience with the ARES units in Oregon and our local County OEM is that
the equipment that they, the "Government", buys for ARES use STAYS with and
FOR ARES use!
 
We have a VERY, VERY proactive EC in our District and trust me when I say
that the County Goverments and the State OEM keep their hands off the Hams!
After all, Hams are VOLUNTEERS and it wouldn't take much for the Hams to
back off and let the State and County Governments to flounder and get a very
BAD reputation!
 
No, this money that our Governor has given the State OEM for this project is
legit!  
 
Our Amateur Radio community has impressed him on more than one occassion and
he's serious!
 
Rod
KC7CJO
Clackamas County Electronic Services, Radio Shop
.
 
<http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=1871183/grpspId=1705063108/msgId
=25787/stime=1199895502/nc1=4025338/nc2=4836042/nc3=4763757> 
 

RE: [digitalradio] Re: Oregon Governor Allocates $250,000 for Digital Communications Network

[dalite01]

 

-Original Message-
From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roger J. Buffington
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 10:18 AM
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: Oregon Governor Allocates $250,000 for
Digital Communications Network



[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:dalite01%40bellsouth.net> net wrote:

> Another point to consider is that the Government Employee who will be
> operating this equipment is maintaining (and will probably continue
> to maintain) and average age south of 40 years old. The same cannot
> be said for the Amateur Radio community who is letting attrition and
> lack of appeal to younger members raise the average age north of 60
> years old.

Let me get this straight. You are saying Government Employees are going 
to be operating Government equipment on the ham bands? 

Actually, I said Govt employees will be operating Amateur equipment in
government installations on amateur (or NTIA) bands; dependent of the
ability of the folks on the other end to handle their taskings.  They will
be licensed for the bands they operate on  I attended testing sessions that
licensed 30 in 2 sessions last year in our county.  They included County
Police, County Fire, County EOC, Public Health and City Police.  An unnamed
Federal Training Center will also have operators.  Currently, there is a
complete redundant HF/VHF/UHF station (2 HF - UHF) rigs allowing
simulataneous voice and digital operation at the EOC/911 Center.  Already
purchased are identical stations for local hospital and sister hospital in
neighboring county.  Public Health and other Agencies are getting employees
licensed and have equipment budgeted for or on the drawing table.  Federal
Training Cebter will be setting up 4 fixed location stations and 4
"driveaway" portable stations with similar capabilities.  

 

>
> There is something about that survival instinct that trumps tradition
> fed attrition every time.

A meaningless statement if there ever was one. 

No response necessary 

 

>
> The time to be worrying about this dynamic, and making preparations
> to prevent it from happening was decades ago. At this point in time,
> all the bluster is as useful as re-arranging the deck chairs on the
> Titanic.

I have no idea what most of the above post means, but if you are ready 
to write amateur radio off, I am not. I don't know what the average age 
of the hams who responded to the last group of emergencies was, but I do 
know that they did a bang-up job, as usual. Mostly with relatively 
simple modes like SSB and FM voice. And they did it without a lot of 
Government employees or equipment. In fact, it is the very fact that 
hams privately own lots of things like generators, transceivers, 
quickly-deployable antennas, etc.(and the skill to use them) that makes 
amateur radio a unique resource. Time and time again it has been 
amateur radio, not a gaggle of Government employees, that provides 
communication in emergencies. 

 

If you have no idea about the above, there isn't much need in trying to
elaborate.  The concept may be a little more complex than you care to admit.
The ARRL gave over long-range emergency comms to the NTIA crowd - MARS.
Amateur Radion is in the last mile catagtory now.  Government wmployees are
not exempted from getting Amateur Radio licenses.  National Guard has
renewed their dependence on HF radio.  

 

Short answer, average amateur is around 61 years old.  Some older, some
younger.  Little attraction is seen in the younger crowd to get into the
Hobby/Service.

The Katrina After Action Report (AAR) put ham radio in the spotlight.  

Do the math.  If that is too difficult, thump your chest about past
performances and look around at the average age of your accomplices.  This
is the time for intellectual honesty; sometimes referred to as pragmatism.

 

David

KD4NUE

 

de Roger W6VZV



 

[digitalradio] Re: Oregon Governor Allocates $250,000 for Digital Communications Network

[jgorman01]

Not knocking the volunteers for sure.  I do have a question.  How come
the money wasn't invested in public safety equipment using public
safety NTIA assigned frequencies to do the same thing? These don't
require ham licenses to operate and could expand the resource pool of
operators.  As a taxpayer, I would want to know why my government has
to rely on volunteers to provide public safety communications.  

I know the current administration and politicians probably have every
intention of letting the equipment stay with ARES.  But, as you know,
things change, sometimes for the worse.  This may not always be the
case.  And even if it happens in your area, it may not occur
elsewhere.  I'm just worried we are setting ourselves up to be
"purchased" sometime in the future.

Jim
WA0LYK

--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Rodney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Jim, and everyone else,
>
>   I am the Radio Tech for Clackamas County, Oregon and I KNOW the
problems that the Hams have getting Digital communications going to
and from a disaster scene!
>
>   My experience with the ARES units in Oregon and our local County
OEM is that the equipment that they, the "Government", buys for ARES
use STAYS with and FOR ARES use!
>
>   We have a VERY, VERY proactive EC in our District and trust me
when I say that the County Goverments and the State OEM keep their
hands off the Hams!  After all, Hams are VOLUNTEERS and it wouldn't
take much for the Hams to back off and let the State and County
Governments to flounder and get a very BAD reputation!
>
>   No, this money that our Governor has given the State OEM for this
project is legit!  
>
>   Our Amateur Radio community has impressed him on more than one
occassion and he's serious!
>
>   Rod
>   KC7CJO
>   Clackamas County Electronic Services, Radio Shop
>   
> 
> jgorman01 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   Does this ever increasing number of government agencies
doing this
> scare the bejeebers out of anybody. That is, the government buying
> permanent infrastructure and someday wanting a return on investment,
> like using it to augment regular communications?
> 
> Jim
> WA0LYK
> 
> --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Jack Chomley  wrote:
> >
> > At 07:35 PM 1/9/2008, you wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >
> > >Oregon Governor Allocates $250,000 for Digital Communications Network
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >The State of Oregon's Office of Emergency Management (OEM) received 
> > >$250,000 from Governor Ted Kulongoski's Strategic Reserve Fund to 
> > >further develop and enhance a statewide Amateur Radio digital 
> > >communications network, announced ARRL Oregon Section Manager Bonnie 
> > >Altus, AB7ZQ.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >"This network, the Oregon ARES Digital Network 
> > >(OADN), 
> > >http://ares.csepp.net/d3web/OADN.pdf already uses a combination of 
> > >different radio equipment and spectrum segments, computers and the 
> > >Internet to provide a robust backup communications system in times 
> > >of disaster. With its enhancements, all Oregon counties will be able 
> > >to communicate with the state OEM," she said. "In December, this 
> > >system proved its usefulness in the storms and floods by utilizing 
> > >Winlink http://www.winlink.org/ stations in 
> > >Lincoln and Clatsop Counties to communicate with OEM. Early in that 
> > >activation, the OEM's Amateur Radio Unit found they were not able to 
> > >keep up with maintaining a complete log of communications when using 
> > >voice communications, but Winlink activities maintained an automatic 
> > >log for them."
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >According to Altus, the primary purpose of the OADN is to provide 
> > >back-up digital communications capabilities between county Emergency 
> > >Operations Centers and Oregon Emergency Management and other state 
> > >agencies in Salem, in the event that normal communications systems 
> > >fail in an emergency.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >During the December storms, Amateur Radio operators were there to 
> > >help. After a visit to one of the severely affected towns, Governor 
> > >Kulongoski said, "I'm going to tell you who the heroes were from the 
> > >very beginning of this...the ham radio operators. These people just 
> > >came in and actually provided a tremendous communication link to 
> > >us." Oregon's OEM said the radio operators were "tireless in their 
> > >efforts to keep the systems connected. When even state police had 
> > >difficulty reaching some of their own troops, ham radio worked, 
> > >setting up networks so emergency officials could communicate and 
> > >relaying lists of supplies needed in stricken areas."
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Through an Intergovernmental Agreement between the individual county 
> > >Emergency Mangers and Oregon's Office of Emergency Management, 
> > >ARES/RACES groups in each county will be responsible for 
> > >installation, maintenance and operation the netw

Re: [digitalradio] Re: Oregon Governor Allocates $250,000 for Digital Communications Network

[Rodney]

Jim, and everyone else,
   
  I am the Radio Tech for Clackamas County, Oregon and I KNOW the problems that 
the Hams have getting Digital communications going to and from a disaster scene!
   
  My experience with the ARES units in Oregon and our local County OEM is that 
the equipment that they, the "Government", buys for ARES use STAYS with and FOR 
ARES use!
   
  We have a VERY, VERY proactive EC in our District and trust me when I say 
that the County Goverments and the State OEM keep their hands off the Hams!  
After all, Hams are VOLUNTEERS and it wouldn't take much for the Hams to back 
off and let the State and County Governments to flounder and get a very BAD 
reputation!
   
  No, this money that our Governor has given the State OEM for this project is 
legit!  
   
  Our Amateur Radio community has impressed him on more than one occassion and 
he's serious!
   
  Rod
  KC7CJO
  Clackamas County Electronic Services, Radio Shop
  

jgorman01 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Does this ever increasing number of government agencies doing this
scare the bejeebers out of anybody. That is, the government buying
permanent infrastructure and someday wanting a return on investment,
like using it to augment regular communications?

Jim
WA0LYK

--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Jack Chomley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> At 07:35 PM 1/9/2008, you wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> >
> >Oregon Governor Allocates $250,000 for Digital Communications Network
> >
> >
> >
> >The State of Oregon's Office of Emergency Management (OEM) received 
> >$250,000 from Governor Ted Kulongoski's Strategic Reserve Fund to 
> >further develop and enhance a statewide Amateur Radio digital 
> >communications network, announced ARRL Oregon Section Manager Bonnie 
> >Altus, AB7ZQ.
> >
> >
> >
> >"This network, the Oregon ARES Digital Network 
> >(OADN), 
> >http://ares.csepp.net/d3web/OADN.pdf already uses a combination of 
> >different radio equipment and spectrum segments, computers and the 
> >Internet to provide a robust backup communications system in times 
> >of disaster. With its enhancements, all Oregon counties will be able 
> >to communicate with the state OEM," she said. "In December, this 
> >system proved its usefulness in the storms and floods by utilizing 
> >Winlink http://www.winlink.org/ stations in 
> >Lincoln and Clatsop Counties to communicate with OEM. Early in that 
> >activation, the OEM's Amateur Radio Unit found they were not able to 
> >keep up with maintaining a complete log of communications when using 
> >voice communications, but Winlink activities maintained an automatic 
> >log for them."
> >
> >
> >
> >According to Altus, the primary purpose of the OADN is to provide 
> >back-up digital communications capabilities between county Emergency 
> >Operations Centers and Oregon Emergency Management and other state 
> >agencies in Salem, in the event that normal communications systems 
> >fail in an emergency.
> >
> >
> >
> >During the December storms, Amateur Radio operators were there to 
> >help. After a visit to one of the severely affected towns, Governor 
> >Kulongoski said, "I'm going to tell you who the heroes were from the 
> >very beginning of this...the ham radio operators. These people just 
> >came in and actually provided a tremendous communication link to 
> >us." Oregon's OEM said the radio operators were "tireless in their 
> >efforts to keep the systems connected. When even state police had 
> >difficulty reaching some of their own troops, ham radio worked, 
> >setting up networks so emergency officials could communicate and 
> >relaying lists of supplies needed in stricken areas."
> >
> >
> >
> >Through an Intergovernmental Agreement between the individual county 
> >Emergency Mangers and Oregon's Office of Emergency Management, 
> >ARES/RACES groups in each county will be responsible for 
> >installation, maintenance and operation the network.
> 
> 
> Mlooks like enough money to "buy" some dedicated 
> commercial frequencies, to move WinLink off the Ham bands :-)
> 
> 73s
> 
> Jack VK4JRC
>



 

   
-
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

Re: [digitalradio] Re: Oregon Governor Allocates $250,000 for Digital Communications Network

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Roger J. Buffington wrote:
> John Becker, WØJAB wrote:
>
>   
>>  Maybe all would be well if the word "WinLink" had not been used.
>> 
>
> Probably.  Other forms of amateur communication listen before they 
> transmit, thereby preventing unnecessary QRM.
>
>
>   
Please, can we not go round this circle *yet again* ?

I unsubscribed from this group when one of the previous storms reached 
its height and I only decided to rejoin because I'd been told it had 
died out again.

Thank you.

Dave (G0DJA)

Re: [digitalradio] Re: Oregon Governor Allocates $250,000 for Digital Communications Network

[Roger J. Buffington]

John Becker, WØJAB wrote:

>  Maybe all would be well if the word "WinLink" had not been used.

Probably.  Other forms of amateur communication listen before they 
transmit, thereby preventing unnecessary QRM.

de Roger W6VZV

Re: [digitalradio] Re: Oregon Governor Allocates $250,000 for Digital Communications Network

[John Becker, WØJAB]

Here is Missouri we have 114 counties plus the city of St. Louis.
Each and ever county plus the city of St. Louis puts money into
their EOC. I know of none that does not have ham equipment.
And has been doing so for many many years.
Would that be any thing like you what your talking about?

Maybe all would be well if the word "WinLink" had not been used.

At 06:47 AM 1/9/2008, you wrote:
>Does this ever increasing number of government agencies doing this
>scare the bejeebers out of anybody.  That is, the government buying
>permanent infrastructure and someday wanting a return on investment,
>like using it to augment regular communications?

Re: [digitalradio] Re: Oregon Governor Allocates $250,000 for Digital Communications Network

[Roger J. Buffington]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>  Another point to consider is that the Government Employee who will be
>  operating this equipment is maintaining (and will probably continue
>  to maintain) and average age south of 40 years old.  The same cannot
>  be said for the Amateur Radio community who is letting attrition and
>  lack of appeal to younger members raise the average age north of 60
>  years old.

Let me get this straight.  You are saying Government Employees are going 
to be operating Government equipment on the ham bands?

>
>  There is something about that survival instinct that trumps tradition
>  fed attrition every time.

A meaningless statement if there ever was one.

>
>  The time to be worrying about this dynamic, and making preparations
>  to prevent it from happening was decades ago.  At this point in time,
>  all the bluster is as useful as re-arranging the deck chairs on the
>  Titanic.

I have no idea what most of the above post means, but if you are ready 
to write amateur radio off, I am not.  I don't know what the average age 
of the hams who responded to the last group of emergencies was, but I do 
know that they did a bang-up job, as usual.  Mostly with relatively 
simple modes like SSB and FM voice.  And they did it without a lot of 
Government employees or equipment.  In fact, it is the very fact that 
hams privately own lots of things like generators, transceivers, 
quickly-deployable antennas, etc.(and the skill to use them) that makes 
amateur radio a unique resource.  Time and time again it has been 
amateur radio, not a gaggle of Government employees, that provides 
communication in emergencies.

de Roger W6VZV

RE: [digitalradio] Re: Oregon Governor Allocates $250,000 for Digital Communications Network

[dalite01]

Actually,  It's not our property.  We are squatters.  As long as we respect
the property and don't run it down, we will continue to have occupancy.
 
The real owner always looks after his investment.  
 
When the owner has a non-productive tenant that assumes the property belongs
to him, not the real owner, the owner makes the necessary adjustments to
reclaim productive use of the property.
 
I will let you all in on a real well-kept secret (NOT).  The D-700 bill for
Digital TV and 700 MHz contained copious amounts of money devoted to
enhancing 911 comms and interoperability.  Guess where a lot of it went?
Amateur Radio.  BTW, that is common knowledge, so don't let it get out.
Wink Wink - Nudge Nudge.
 
Another point to consider is that the Government Employee who will be
operating this equipment is maintaining (and will probably continue to
maintain) and average age south of 40 years old.  The same cannot be said
for the Amateur Radio community who is letting attrition and lack of appeal
to younger members raise the average age north of 60 years old.  
 
There is something about that survival instinct that trumps tradition fed
attrition every time.
 
The time to be worrying about this dynamic, and making preparations to
prevent it from happening was decades ago.  At this point in time, all the
bluster is as useful as re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. 
 
 
David
KD4NUE
 
 

-Original Message-
From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roger J. Buffington
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 9:48 AM
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: Oregon Governor Allocates $250,000 for
Digital Communications Network



jgorman01 wrote:
>
> Does this ever increasing number of government agencies doing this
> scare the bejeebers out of anybody. That is, the government buying
> permanent infrastructure and someday wanting a return on investment,
> like using it to augment regular communications?
>
> Jim WA0LYK
>
Exactly right. When the Government buys infrastructure and puts it on 
your property, i.e. the ham bands, it does not take long before it 
becomes their property, i.e. the ham bands.

Great. Just great.

de Roger W6VZV



 

Re: [digitalradio] Re: Oregon Governor Allocates $250,000 for Digital Communications Network

[Roger J. Buffington]

jgorman01 wrote:
>
>  Does this ever increasing number of government agencies doing this
>  scare the bejeebers out of anybody. That is, the government buying
>  permanent infrastructure and someday wanting a return on investment,
>  like using it to augment regular communications?
>
>  Jim WA0LYK
>
Exactly right.  When the Government buys infrastructure and puts it on 
your property, i.e. the ham bands, it does not take long before it 
becomes their property, i.e. the ham bands.

Great.  Just great.

de Roger W6VZV

[digitalradio] Re: Oregon Governor Allocates $250,000 for Digital Communications Network

[jgorman01]

Does this ever increasing number of government agencies doing this
scare the bejeebers out of anybody.  That is, the government buying
permanent infrastructure and someday wanting a return on investment,
like using it to augment regular communications?

Jim
WA0LYK

--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Jack Chomley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> At 07:35 PM 1/9/2008, you wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> >
> >Oregon Governor Allocates $250,000 for Digital Communications Network
> >
> >
> >
> >The State of Oregon's Office of Emergency Management (OEM) received 
> >$250,000 from Governor Ted Kulongoski's Strategic Reserve Fund to 
> >further develop and enhance a statewide Amateur Radio digital 
> >communications network, announced ARRL Oregon Section Manager Bonnie 
> >Altus, AB7ZQ.
> >
> >
> >
> >"This network, the Oregon ARES Digital Network 
> >(OADN), 
> >http://ares.csepp.net/d3web/OADN.pdf already uses a combination of 
> >different radio equipment and spectrum segments, computers and the 
> >Internet to provide a robust backup communications system in times 
> >of disaster. With its enhancements, all Oregon counties will be able 
> >to communicate with the state OEM," she said. "In December, this 
> >system proved its usefulness in the storms and floods by utilizing 
> >Winlink http://www.winlink.org/ stations in 
> >Lincoln and Clatsop Counties to communicate with OEM. Early in that 
> >activation, the OEM's Amateur Radio Unit found they were not able to 
> >keep up with maintaining a complete log of communications when using 
> >voice communications, but Winlink activities maintained an automatic 
> >log for them."
> >
> >
> >
> >According to Altus, the primary purpose of the OADN is to provide 
> >back-up digital communications capabilities between county Emergency 
> >Operations Centers and Oregon Emergency Management and other state 
> >agencies in Salem, in the event that normal communications systems 
> >fail in an emergency.
> >
> >
> >
> >During the December storms, Amateur Radio operators were there to 
> >help. After a visit to one of the severely affected towns, Governor 
> >Kulongoski said, "I'm going to tell you who the heroes were from the 
> >very beginning of this...the ham radio operators. These people just 
> >came in and actually provided a tremendous communication link to 
> >us." Oregon's OEM said the radio operators were "tireless in their 
> >efforts to keep the systems connected. When even state police had 
> >difficulty reaching some of their own troops, ham radio worked, 
> >setting up networks so emergency officials could communicate and 
> >relaying lists of supplies needed in stricken areas."
> >
> >
> >
> >Through an Intergovernmental Agreement between the individual county 
> >Emergency Mangers and Oregon's Office of Emergency Management, 
> >ARES/RACES groups in each county will be responsible for 
> >installation, maintenance and operation the network.
> 
> 
> Mlooks like enough money to "buy" some dedicated 
> commercial frequencies, to move WinLink off the Ham bands :-)
> 
> 73s
> 
> Jack VK4JRC
>