Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: IBM is alive ;)
I do hope that LibreOffice On Line becomes a reality! It would be the only (to my knowledge) Free own-server based office suite! There is one of which I am aware, having used it at a previous employer: Zimbra Docs. It is not widely documented or discussed online, for reasons I don't know. Here's a brief review, though: http://www.linuxuser.co.uk/features/managing-docs-with-zimbra/ It worked pretty well in my usage, I'd use it again. Ben -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: IBM is alive ;)
On Feb 4, 2012, at 12:30 PM, Jonathan Aquilina wrote: On 04/02/2012 17:26, Benjamin Horst wrote: I do hope that LibreOffice On Line becomes a reality! It would be the only (to my knowledge) Free own-server based office suite! There is one of which I am aware, having used it at a previous employer: Zimbra Docs. It is not widely documented or discussed online, for reasons I don't know. Here's a brief review, though: http://www.linuxuser.co.uk/features/managing-docs-with-zimbra/ It worked pretty well in my usage, I'd use it again. Ben Ben zimbra is proprietary as well now owned by vmware. With my luck on trying to start using vmware for virtualization as a start up business they have put me off using their products. Would be nice to develop a mail client to add to the LO suite. There appears to be an open source version of Zimbra still: http://www.zimbra.com/products/zimbra-open-source.html Whether it has the same feature set, I'm not sure. As mentioned, the documentation on Zimbra Docs is sparse! -Ben Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: IBM is alive ;)
On Feb 4, 2012, at 2:00 PM, Jonathan Aquilina wrote: On 04/02/2012 19:50, Benjamin Horst wrote: On Feb 4, 2012, at 12:30 PM, Jonathan Aquilina wrote: On 04/02/2012 17:26, Benjamin Horst wrote: I do hope that LibreOffice On Line becomes a reality! It would be the only (to my knowledge) Free own-server based office suite! There is one of which I am aware, having used it at a previous employer: Zimbra Docs. It is not widely documented or discussed online, for reasons I don't know. Here's a brief review, though: http://www.linuxuser.co.uk/features/managing-docs-with-zimbra/ It worked pretty well in my usage, I'd use it again. Ben Ben zimbra is proprietary as well now owned by vmware. With my luck on trying to start using vmware for virtualization as a start up business they have put me off using their products. Would be nice to develop a mail client to add to the LO suite. There appears to be an open source version of Zimbra still: http://www.zimbra.com/products/zimbra-open-source.html Whether it has the same feature set, I'm not sure. As mentioned, the documentation on Zimbra Docs is sparse! -Ben I dont know about that, but they have the free zimbra desktop mail client which i have tried and am not impressed with. That client is a different story, and I didn't like it either, but you can use any email client you want with the email server. Regardless, it's the browser-based word processor, spreadsheet and slideshow creation tools within the Zimbra self-hosted server application that we're talking about here. If you haven't looked at them, I suggest you do. To my knowledge, they are the closest thing on the internet to a self-hosted, open source equivalent to Google Docs. -Ben Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: IBM is alive ;)
On Feb 4, 2012, at 2:18 PM, Pedro wrote: Hi Benjamin, all Benjamin Horst wrote http://www.linuxuser.co.uk/features/managing-docs-with-zimbra/ It worked pretty well in my usage, I'd use it again. This is not even similar to Google Docs or IBM Docs. Zimbra Docs is a a WYSIWYG tool for creating, sharing, and publishing documents online - and note that this includes spreadsheets as well as word processing documents. Yes, it is much closer to Google Docs than you think. I couldn't find a lot about word processing but what I did find looked more like a Rich Text editor. The spreadsheet is really a 6 columns by 10 lines Table. Naming that a spreadsheet is a little overkill... http://blogs.zdnet.com/images/Zimbra_documents.png This screenshot showing 6x10 cells does not mean that's all the app can do. I recall using it for much more than that. In addition the Open Source version is a limited version of the paid one (I really feel cheated with this trick...) It's an annoying trick when companies do this. I don't know if Zimbra reduces the feature set, or if they just don't offer support for the open source version. If you are serious about evaluating existing competitors in this space and want to carry out real due diligence, you need to download and install the Zimbra open source version to experiment with it. The installation I used was set up by our IT team, and I don't know how they configured it, what add-ons they may have installed, whether we were using the open source or closed source versions, etc. I'll be happy to help you. Do you have a server or VM that we could use to test? -Ben Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] News about the world outside LO :)
On Jul 14, 2011, at 6:17 PM, plino wrote: Surprise, surprise! IBM will be announcing tomorrow that it’s donating essentially all its IBM Lotus Symphony source code and resources to Apache’s OpenOffice project http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/ibm-throws-its-source-code-and-support-behind-openoffice/9240 I think Symphony has done a great job with its UI work--that's what I'd most like to see come under an open source license. - tabbed document interface lets you open multiple files in one window - a dashboard like the OOo / LibO splash screen, but you can open it from a button that appears on the tab bar. This fits into the dashboard functionality with potential integration into online services, as I have envisioned and previously described: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org_Dashboard_Concept - formatting and other tools appear in a vertical column on the side of the main document window, which is one of the most-frequently requested UI features I've seen come through the OOo and LibO communities Symphony also has some problems: - it's very slow to open the application initially - removed the Draw component - I think (?) it's even more Java-dependent than OOo ever was Rob Weir's full email is available online here, and his official announcement is this afternoon in Berlin (so it could be happening right now or has just happened): http://lwn.net/Articles/451635/ -Ben Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] News about the world outside LO :)
On Jul 15, 2011, at 10:51 AM, Mark Wielaard wrote: On Fri, 2011-07-15 at 10:30 -0400, Benjamin Horst wrote: I think Symphony has done a great job with its UI work--that's what I'd most like to see come under an open source license. - tabbed document interface lets you open multiple files in one window - a dashboard like the OOo / LibO splash screen, but you can open it from a button that appears on the tab bar. This fits into the dashboard functionality with potential integration into online services, as I have envisioned and previously described: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org_Dashboard_Concept - formatting and other tools appear in a vertical column on the side of the main document window, which is one of the most-frequently requested UI features I've seen come through the OOo and LibO communities That would be interesting indeed. But according to one of the IBM engineers [*] they are only interested in contributing the C++ parts (and strangely seem to want to keep using their own in-house ClearCase setup for integration). The GUI (menu/toolbars and the tab windows) stuff is all implemented using Expeditor [**] a giant (proprietary) eclipse based java framework that embeds the C++ document views. So hopefully they are also prepared to free Expeditor. Rob specifically referenced the UI improvements, so the followup message from Erik Ma, the architect, is somewhat confusing. In any case, after Rob Weir's formal announcement, we should have more workable information. -Ben [*] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201107.mbox/% 3coffe6eaa9d.2c929e08-on482578cd.000d5e79-482578cd.00116...@cn.ibm.com% 3E [**] http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/downloads/ls/lxpd/ (a 800MB proprietary download...) Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: [Libreoffice] suggestion to improve libreoffice writer
On Mar 19, 2011, at 4:14 AM, Jonathan Aquilina wrote: On 3/18/11 1:32 PM, Charles Marcus wrote: On 2011-03-17 4:06 PM, Steve Edmonds wrote: Hi. This is a good point to discuss and I have posted to discuss@documentfoundation.org also. I prefer separate windows because I can compare and proof documents/sheets side by side and mouse focus in linux makes scrolling without changing window focus possible. I would be disappointed if LO went to tabs. Shouldn't be a problem as long as it worked similarly to Firefox... meaning, it uses tabs but does not preclude the use of separate windows. So, you should be able to drag a tab to a new window, or vice-versa... Best of both worlds... Charles I am sure it can be done where the tab usage is done as a general setup as alot of the major browsers today use tabs. From an end-user perspective, I think tabs would be a big success for us. They are an obvious, immediate difference from our biggest competitor and something that a lot of users have asked for over the years. They're also easy to use, since web browsers have trained users what to expect. I'd like to see LibreOffice implement tabs, too. -Ben Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Libreoffice for Mac
On Mar 5, 2011, at 9:20 AM, adept techlists - kazar wrote: On 3/4/11 7:14 AM, Laurence Jeloudev wrote: Will libreoffice be supported for future os s on the Mac? Etc Mac Osx lion? so far the actual question has not been answered i'm also curious to know if there is a strong Mac porting team among those who are now working on LibreOffice, and whether they will be ensuring Lion compatibility There is a sizable community of LibreOffice-on-Mac users, so I expect Mac support will remain an important priority long into the future. (I am one of them. However, I'm not a member of the porting team.) -Ben Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Foundation Fundraising
On Feb 18, 2011, at 6:37 AM, Florian Effenberger wrote: Hi folks, Benjamin Horst wrote on 2011-02-08 19.58: My suggestion was to use a personal account to collect and then disburse the income, which would probably trigger income tax, as BRM mentioned in his response. (I don't know with any certainty, though.) Another platform like Kickstarter ishttp://www.indiegogo.com/ According to their site, you can Start your campaign from any country in the world as long as you have a valid bank account. It also lets you collect pledged funds even if you don't meet your overall goal, but it charges fees of 4 or 9% (the higher fee if you don't meet your full goal, the lower fee if you do). Not sure what Kickstarter's fee structure is to compare. I guess it would be best if a nonprofit like OOoDeV would do the thing, as otherwise, tax issues arise and there is no tax-deductibility. If you know of a service we can use as German nonprofit, I'm happy to look into it. :) I think IndieGoGo would work. http://www.indiegogo.com/ However, the existing donation pages are clearly achieving their purpose already, so there may be no need for an additional platform and its overhead costs. -Ben Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: Looking for ONE person ( was: Re: [tdf-discuss] Looking for two people to act as sponsors of US TDF/LibreOffice fund raising event )
Hello, On Feb 13, 2011, at 1:28 PM, drew wrote: I think this has potential for sure, an announcement on the SCaLE Facebook site, with the picture of the poster, in just a bit here perhaps a tweet or two and who knows. I think we will do very well. Which to recap. The TDF/LibreOffice booth will raffle off a singular piece of art work, in the form of a professionally produced full color, treated and mounted poster: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/e/e9/Scale_poster-lax_lnd-1680x1050.png in the LibreOffice booth, #4, at SCaLE from Feb 25th - 27th. We are looking for a person, or persons (?), to make a pledge to match the amount collected at the show, or some portion of this amount. The full proceeds will be donated to TDF founding fees. This really is a great idea, Drew! We might want a company to be the one to match donations. I know WorldLabel.com has been a good and very generous member of the community, perhaps they could assist? I've also reached out to another company I know who I think might be interested. I'll keep you posted. -Ben Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Computer Magazine cover CDs
All we need is a summary of what the magazine feels are the biggest 20 issues. If you find the article, just share that info, and we should be good to go. -Ben On Feb 9, 2011, at 11:53 AM, Alexander Thurgood wrote: Le 09/02/11 16:31, Jonathan Aquilina a écrit : Alex there is an article regarding the 20 things about OOo which could be improved if someone has a subscription to linuxformat.co.uk they could download the pd of the article. it would be a great one to follow and make improvements on their suggestions. Ooh, well I'll have to try and dig out my subscription details then :-)) I seem to recall however, that the PDF files of their articles are strictly not for redistribution. Alex -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Foundation Fundraising
Would it be legitimate and useful for a private US citizen to set up a Kickstarter with the stipulation that the funding would all be donated to the TDF legal entity in Germany? If this approach is sound, then I or another US-based volunteer could set it up. When the campaign finishes and is disbursed, we'd transfer the money to TDF. Clear messaging on the campaign information pages would eliminate any likely misunderstandings from donors and supporters. -Ben On Feb 7, 2011, at 1:35 PM, drew wrote: On Mon, 2011-02-07 at 18:18 +, toki wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 02/07/2011 01:27 PM, drew wrote: A requirement to have to have a US bank account in order to receive funds is not the same thing as saying the money must be dispersed in the US only, is it? No. A couple of things to do, before setting up the business account: * Make sure that you really want to have a business presence in the state that the bank that handles the account is located in. * Decide what currency you want the account to be denominated in. (I don't know how that affects Amazon Processing.) ( I don't know how FDIC works for non US-Dollar denominated accounts.) * Verify that the bank is financially sound. (The Federal Reserve Bank is on track to close more financial institutions this year, than in the previous two years, combined.) Good points but I don't see it quite same way, as kickstarter is an all of nothing situation - you set a target and if you hit it or exceed it you get the funds, if not they go back to the donors - so I would say you don't want to setup to do business of any kind in the US beyond the ability to accept funds into a checking account and then later transfer the funds as one lump sum to the proper account for the foundation and close the account. As for the target amount for 100,000 euro with a close date of March 30th, and todays exchange rate or 0.73 it would take $136,166 USD. Given the time frame $150,000 would seem a large enough cushion, even with fees, anyway that's just my quick swag at it. Also - Benjamin mentioned a different site that I have no information on and perhaps it does not have this US - either way, the necessary banking setup and then a media campaign..that is a darn tight schedule. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Foundation Fundraising
On Feb 7, 2011, at 9:19 AM, drew wrote: Firstly I'd say - slow down a bit - let this idea percolate a bit. _If_ kickstarter is something of interest then the way to go would be IMO to have German nationals open an account in a US bank, and that can be done. Kickstarter looks like the strongest, but other options exist as well. For example, http://www.chipin.com/ is one I've seen used in the past. -Ben Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Fwd: [marketing] About.com 2011 Readers' Choice Awards - Nominations are Open
On Jan 13, 2011, at 7:54 AM, Nguyen Vu Hung wrote:
FYI,
It seems that about.com doesn't know of LiO.
I also received this email and nominated LibreOffice Impress in the form they
provided: http://presentationsoft.about.com/library/blnominate.htm
It requires entering your name and email address, but then you can fill in your
choice for LibO there. I suggest we all go ahead and fill this out, since it
only takes about 20 seconds.
-Ben
-- Forwarded message --
From: Wendy Russell - About.com Presentation Software Guide
presentationsoft.gu...@about.com
Date: Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 9:30 PM
Subject: [marketing] About.com 2011 Readers' Choice Awards - Nominations are
Open
To:
Hello,
[image: 2011 About.com Readers' Choice Awards] http://awards.about.com/I
wanted to let you know about an annual awards program we’re running on
About.com. The 2011 *About.com Readers' Choice Awards* will showcase the
best products, features and services in dozens of categories. Readers'
Choice grew out of a successful awards program on our Computing channel, and
it's being expanded this year to include multiple channels, from technology
to hobbies to parenting.
On the Presentation Software http://presentationsoft.about.com/ site,
nominations will be accepted for
· *Best **FREE** Alternative to PowerPoint *
· *Best **PURCHASED** Alternative to PowerPoint*
Now is the chance to nominate *OpenOffice Impress* as your favorite
presentation software program.
Nominations are will be open on January 13 until February 4, and voting will
run from February 11 through March 8, with winners announced March 15.
There's no prize -- just the bragging rights that come with getting
recognized by the readers of one of the leading websites, owned by The New
York Times Co.
To learn more about the awards program running on the Presentation Software
site, visit the Nomination
pagehttp://presentationsoft.about.com/library/blnominate.htmTo learn
more about the overall awards program visit
awards.about.com. Let me know if you have any questions, and have a great
day!
Best,
**
* Wendy Russell*
Guide to Presentation Software
**
*presentationsoft.about.com*
* *
*About.com http://www.about.com/* | *Need. Know. Accomplish.*
About.com is part of The New York Times Company
--
Best Regards,
Nguyen Hung Vu [aka: NVH] ( in Vietnamese: Nguyễn Vũ Hưng )
vuhung16plus{remove}@gmail.dot.com
vuhung16plus%7bremove...@gmail.dot.com, YIM: vuhung16 , Skype:
vuhung16plus
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Benjamin Horst
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646-464-2314 (Eastern)
www.solidoffice.com
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Mac App Store
Anecdotal evidence of the impact of being listed in the app store--yesterday, Evernote tweeted their installation rate increased 1,800% from the day before the Mac App Store launched. Ben Sent from my iPhone On Jan 7, 2011, at 6:01 AM, Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote: Jonathan, I believe there are some specific legal issues that are related to FOSS licences, but we do need to investigate some more (help is welcome). Best, Charles. Le Fri, 07 Jan 2011 10:41:52 +0100, Jonathan Aquilina eagles051...@gmail.com a écrit : Would we do something with LO, or would there be GPL licensing issues? On 01/07/2011 10:04 AM, Uwe Altmann wrote: Am 07.01.11 04:57, schrieb todd rme: - It is not packaged and submitted using Apple’s packaging technologies included in Xcode – No third party installers are allowed (I thought this was a major goal of LibO) It /is/ packaged and submitted using Apple’s packaging technologies as far as the Mac Version of OOo is concerned - it's a *.dmg file containing an *.app folder, which his a common way of installing programs on a Mac. NeoOffice is listed since years in the download area of apple.com so this can not be that problematic. -- Charles-H. Schulz Membre du Comité exécutif The Document Foundation. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store
On Jan 7, 2011, at 5:00 PM, Jonathan Aquilina wrote: I was told there is an issue with mac and the GPL and LGPL licensing. not sure what exactly though. Some quick reading shows the issue is not at all clear. For example, the Wesnoth community has debated this in depth, but the ultimate result is that Wesnoth is currently available in the App Store (for iOS), and even charges a small fee. (Just as Fabian Rodriguez suggested earlier in this thread.) An article on their community discussion is here: http://lwn.net/Articles/396535/ If you have iTunes, you can see the app store page for Wesnoth here: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/battle-for-wesnoth/id340691963?mt=8 Thus, it does not appear that Apple would block LibO because of our LGPL license (Wesnoth is GPL v2). The FSF is very unhappy with the App Store, but this does not appear to be a dealbreaker if we wish to go ahead with it. -Ben Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[tdf-discuss] Mac App Store
The Mac App Store launched today with over 1,000 applications: http://www.apple.com/mac/app-store/ Its purpose is similar to Linux package managers, but much more consumer focused, and I think it represents an enormous opportunity for LibO--how else can we be listed right alongside MS Office and Apple iWork in front of the eyes of millions of users? (Actually, I don't think MS Office is available there at all--so we could beat them to it!) And users who don't want to open their wallets will naturally download LibO first to see if it works for them before buying something, which they might never come back to do. Does anyone know the technical requirements needed to get into the Mac App Store? Are there any developers here who'd like to get involved in this process? Strategically, I think the payoff will be huge. -Ben Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Community Management
Hi Charles, On Dec 14, 2010, at 5:29 AM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: I will download the book. This being said I'd like to share some thoughts about the notion of Community Management. Going out of OpenOffice.org community, I'm not the only one who feels an intense need for a community that seizes its own destiny and fulfills it. What this means, beyond the nice words, is that I will not be -will never be - a community manager and don't wish one for our community. I don't really like the notion of managing a community in the context of FOSS. Barack Obama you can certainly organize a community /Barack Obabma but I believe that it's important that contributors see their contributions valued and that they feel a sense of ownership. Beyond that point, proper governance make the sauce. What's important is to have a community of contributors that behave in an adult way; and community management include the notion of management, or rather, the notion of management from the outside. I don't like that. Inside OOo, if you remember, we had several layers of community management. We know how it ended. I agree with you about the possible negative connotations of the term manager, but I think it's just a terminology problem. You could think of the role as Community Facilitator or even host if you prefer. The actual tasks inherent to the role are similar to the host of a party--introducing people to others with similar interests, helping to coordinate times, places and necessities, etc. In practice, it's hugely helpful to have someone walking around to make sure that good ideas don't get lost and plans receive encouragement and assistance until they are completed. They can also play the role of matchmaker, to help find volunteers for important initiatives that don't have enough helpers. I also understand the desire to form a clean break from the past and to build our own thing this time. I think it's the right approach, but I don't think it means we can eliminate the role of the community manager, though renaming it to better suit our project's culture certainly makes sense. -Ben Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[tdf-discuss] Community Management
I spoke with Jono Bacon about his role as Community Manager for Ubuntu, to collect some of his thoughts and suggestions for LibO. Jono has written a book called The Art of Community, which describes his approach. It's available to purchase or download under a CC license from his site: http://www.artofcommunityonline.org/get/ This would be a great read for all of us involved in TDF as we strive to increase our membership and visibility to the world. Jono also offered to help us as our community grows, so if anyone is interested in talking to him, please reach out. (His info is on his site: http://www.jonobacon.org/contact-me/ ) -Ben Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] A proposal for effective, volunteer-friendly user support in LibreOffice
Hello, On Nov 23, 2010, at 10:42 AM, M. Fioretti wrote: As per subject: http://stop.zona-m.net/2010/11/a-proposal-for-effective-volunteer-friendly-user-support-in-libreoffice/ I reviewed your proposal and think you make very good points. As I personally haven't closely followed the user support mailing list over the years, I don't feel qualified to respond in too much detail on those points. :) However, have we considered adopting a knowledge base type interface to supplement our user support? One I worked with in the past allowed users to input their questions, and would automatically direct them toward similar questions that had been asked and answered already. If they don't find a sufficient response from the existing knowledge base, their question is automatically forwarded through to a human support person, who interacts with the user through a web application. Their answer is then added to the growing repository for the next user. This is different from a basic FAQ published in any ordinary CMS, because of the automatic search for similar questions, and because after passing that threshold, it leads directly to a human support person (or volunteer). Searching quickly for open source knowledge base I came upon the following useful discussion: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/284477/anybody-knows-any-knowledge-base-open-source I don't think the responses fill all of the criteria I discussed above, yet they may point us in a useful direction. Has anyone else worked with tools like I describe here? Do you think it makes sense to hybridize our support offering in this way, remove the challenge of an email list for many users, archive responses in an easy web-accessible location, and yet allow our support volunteers to continue using email or choose a web interface to do their part? -Ben Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] New support list suggestion
On Nov 19, 2010, at 9:17 PM, Barbara Duprey wrote: On 11/19/2010 7:16 PM, Bernhard Dippold wrote: Hi Charles, * Charles Marcus schrieb: I'd really like to see an email support list dedicated solely to questions in the nature of I know how to do this in Excel/Word/Powerpoint, but how do I do it on Calc/Writer/Impress?... I'd rather like to see this in a FAQ - perhaps in a dedicated area or tagged with MSO relation. From a promotional perspective, I'd use terminology like Migrating from Microsoft Office. This provides implicit reinforcement that migrating to LibO from MSO is such a common occurrence that we need a special section in our FAQ for it, and fits into the narrative of our inevitable project growth. -Ben Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: Inkscape vs. Draw (was: Re: [tdf-discuss] Apply button)
On Nov 16, 2010, at 5:36 PM, Ian Lynch wrote: Think this has lost the plot :-) The argument was not necessarily to replace Draw with Inkscape but to learn from it. Excellent--this is what I was hoping we were collectively thinking in this discussion. Using successful attributes of Inkscape as inspiration for improvements to Draw is a great approach, since it has faced and solved many of the same problems. -Ben Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: Inkscape vs. Draw (was: Re: [tdf-discuss] Apply button)
On Nov 16, 2010, at 4:16 PM, BRM wrote: It's other short-coming is that it's a do-one-thing-and-do-it-well piece of software. It won't replace a Bitmap editor, which is very useful for creating new artwork and getting the shading right. Yes, it does vector graphics and uses SVG. It's entirely designed around SVG. Yes, you can probably export to other formats (been a while since I tried, though I know at least PNG can be exported to). But that doesn't resolve the need for doing coloration, etc in the way a bitmap editor can do it - which is the antithesis of InkScape. There are strengths and weaknesses to both - and yes, InkScape does a great job at what it does. (I do love using it, and it's far far easier to use than GIMP.) But a suite like LibO needs both sides of the functionality. I've long wanted to see a simple raster (bitmap) image editor included in LibO. I'd like it to include basic image cropping, saving in different formats, and simple editing, similar to what Preview in Mac OS X provides. Outside of MS Paint, which isn't powerful enough, there's no pre-installed tool for Windows users to manage these functions--thus an opening for LibO to step in and fill this user need. (How many times have you received Word docs that just contain a pasted image, because they have no other way to save the file? This happens to me in business settings frequently.) -Ben Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: Inkscape vs. Draw (was: Re: [tdf-discuss] Apply button)
On Nov 17, 2010, at 11:36 AM, Ian Lynch wrote: On 17 November 2010 16:17, Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com wrote: On Nov 16, 2010, at 5:36 PM, Ian Lynch wrote: Think this has lost the plot :-) The argument was not necessarily to replace Draw with Inkscape but to learn from it. Excellent--this is what I was hoping we were collectively thinking in this discussion. Using successful attributes of Inkscape as inspiration for improvements to Draw is a great approach, since it has faced and solved many of the same problems. One thing I really like in Inkscape is the object alignment tools. Very easy to use and very powerful. Surely that would not be too difficult to implement in Draw? I agree--these would be a major benefit for Draw users. They may be my biggest feature request for Draw as well. -Ben Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] FreeDesktop Bugzilla
On Nov 12, 2010, at 11:26 AM, Povilas Kanapickas wrote: On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 6:09 PM, Rainer Bielefeld rainerbielefeld_ooo...@bielefeldundbuss.de wrote: I cant see any necessity for an additional bug tracking system for normal users. If he has a problem, the user can post it in an user mailing list or in the forum, there he can get help. Hi, casual users don't do that. They only need to get their work done. Forums have the tendency to cost a lot of time, whereas many of non-power users do not understand mailing lists completely. If we want to get them involved in bug reporting, everything should be as easy as nextnextnext, plus the already mentioned things making users feel they're part of the community (like 'your bug was resolved', etc. notifications). Otherwise users wouldn't care, or, even worse, dump LibO. I agree that the need for simplicity is fundamental. What users could do if they were highly motivated is different from what they will do in real-world circumstances. Our community benefits most from this feedback, so we need to expend the effort to collect it. Firefox's current beta version (4.0b7) displays a prominent Feedback button on the toolbar, directly to the right of its Google search box. Clicking it opens a menu with Firefox made me happy because... and Firefox made be sad because... (It also includes links to see or turn off the User Studies feature.) I'd suggest we examine and emulate Firefox's UX model here, if possible. -Ben Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] java / phone strategy ..
On Nov 3, 2010, at 12:56 PM, Ian wrote: On Wed, 2010-11-03 at 11:34 -0500, T. J. Brumfield wrote: The cheapest iPad is $500, and comparable tablets are priced along the same lines. There are cheap tablets more in the $99-$150 range, but they are underpowered compared to the iPad and Galaxy Tab. The iPad only has 512 MB of RAM, and we're talking about lesser hardware than that. Hardware gets better and prices drop as we move forward into the future, but if you want to be able to reach developing countries with a tablet version within the next year, then you need a slim build. I was looking more 3-5 years on. Android tablets will stimulate fierce competition including phone tablets free on contracts - that is how I have my Galaxy S and G1 before it. Its just free with my contract. Apple is making 50% margins on i-phones and probably at least that on i-pads. Ok while Apple enthusiasts pay premiums for new gadgets but that will wear off. I would be surprised if in 5 years, $99 tablets, netbooks and similar devices based on Android and possibly a Nokia free software based platform are not common place. Say 4 gig of RAM and quad core ARM 2 GHZ processors. OOo could easily run in that now and as new devices come on line the older ones get resold into Africa. I have a G1 here that is virtually worthless but was state of the art less than 2 years ago. So reduce LO to something that will run in close to to-days state of the art phone technologies and the developing world will have devices next to free that will run it in 3-5 years. Yes, agreed. As tablets become standardized, more of their components will be produced in system-on-a-chip configurations. Prices will drop steeply and access will explode. OLPC is planning on a tablet for its next major system, and India's government has been talking about building a $35 tablet. From a broad view of future success, tablets merit a great deal of attention on our part. As I mentioned elsewhere, a LibreOffice Touch for tablets would be huge. We'd outflank our main opponent, capture vast new markets and develop great momentum, and then with that increased strength, address the initial marketplace (of PC desktops and laptops) with a much larger arsenal at our disposal. That sounds great. I think it could be a strong growth market, and help push not only OSS, LibreOffice, etc. but also the ODF format. However I think the key to that strategy is jumping out in front quickly. GoogleDocs can already by accessed via the web on tablets, and Microsoft has their online office offerings. Quite so and K-office is being adopted by Nokia. If LO was the choice for Android, odf becomes the de facto standard on mobile devices. Google would then almost certainly beef up the odf fidelity of Docs. LibreOffice would need a slim build with a tablet UI, and it would need one quickly. Is there developer bandwidth for such a project? I think this would be a good Google Summer of Code project that could get some funding and a new developer that way, but I'm not sure the work could be handled by a single developer over a summer. It's why we desperately need an alternative source of income to fund these type of developments. It doesn't even need to be built on the existing LibO code--it could be built using LibO's ODF libraries, though, for perfect file compatibility. Users won't care what the underlying code is; as long as the interface and branding match LibO, and documents can be seamlessly shared, then LibreOffice Touch will be the younger sibling of LibreOffice in their eyes. It feels like a plan for a smart new startup, perhaps even backed with VC money from Apple or Android's development funds for their platforms. -Ben Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] New UI - OOo compatability - What we are about?
Drew, On Nov 3, 2010, at 8:50 AM, drew wrote: This email is prompted from reading a couple of the discussions going on, or just recently having gone on. This question of a new UI for LibreOffice for instance, is a good one to move into what I wanted to touch on. I believe the question itself is wrong - or to say it avoids looking at other ways to achieve the goals of those wanting to explore options for change. Basically what I want to say is this - I hope we find a way to construct our association, or collective efforts, such that it fosters growth in a lateral fashion, not just from the perspective of a single application. Do we really want to say that we, our efforts, are only to support this one application, LibreOffice? Do we not want to rather say that we are all collectively working to deliver the best possible tools for the document generation market? (ok, not the best wording..) I strongly agree with you. We need to approach the opportunity holistically, and address the underlying requirements, more than simply develop and promote a single application. A bundle of cooperative tools addressing different platforms and needs seems like the winning approach to my mind. This new organization, freed from the dominance of a single vendor, should not limit it's scope to only the this one artifact, brought from the old, LibreOffice. Rather, I hope, it should be capable of supporting new ideas, and new approaches. Certainly there are valid and proper, concerns with regards to compatibility with OO.o with regards to LibreOffice now and going forward. But they should not be an over riding concern when it comes to all our endeavors. Compatibility with ODF is key, but otherwise--let's invent! Think about the situation back at OO.o with the Education project - How should we handle a situation such as this, where a group of active individuals, members of the larger group, decide to pursue a specialized derivative of the main application - would be shun them? What if a young designer, or an old one..lol.., proposes some radical ideas - and some young developers see the same vision and want to pursue it - will we have a way to help, and support them - or will we view it only as a loss from the perspective of work-hours on the libreOffice application? I personally see a situation like this as a benefit to our community. As an analogy, Mozilla has a large Labs environment, in which new concepts are tested and experimented upon. Should they prove useful, they become additional projects of their own, under the larger Mozilla umbrella. Apache does this too, as do many large technology for-profits. It's clearly a model that works. Thanks for bringing up this train of thought. -Ben Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] java / phone strategy ..
Hi all, On Nov 3, 2010, at 9:38 AM, Ian wrote: On Wed, 2010-11-03 at 09:09 -0400, Michael Meeks wrote: Hi Ian, I've seen OO.o running quite nicely on small ARM devices as native code; that would be my approach to mobile. So why is there no strategy to get OOo on to these mobile devices? Or maybe there is ? Sure - improve performance and memory footprint - that work is underway, and beef up the ARM port. Beyond that - a new UI shell is required on top - and we have a mobile phone version. That sounds good. I expect the iPad and upcoming Android tablets to become the dominant computing platform in developing countries--they are cheaper and make a simple upgrade path from the mobile phones that are the primary means of internet access in many places already (India, China, Africa, etc). There is no inertia from an installed base in this category--thus we can achieve first-mover advantage and define expectations for the next billion users. We don't have existing UIs (and brand names) to retrain users from, and we don't have an entrenched document format they will need to be compatible with. From a broad view of future success, tablets merit a great deal of attention on our part. As I mentioned elsewhere, a LibreOffice Touch for tablets would be huge. We'd outflank our main opponent, capture vast new markets and develop great momentum, and then with that increased strength, address the initial marketplace (of PC desktops and laptops) with a much larger arsenal at our disposal. Ultimately - the techincal strategy is easy; the only problem is people to actually hack on doing it :-) are you volunteering ? What will be much more effective is for me to devise a strategy that can pay several developers to work on the project. I'm out of date in hacking, but I know how we should be able to make money. I think that is just a better use of the resources I can provide. You're the General in my above, overly-military sounding metaphor. :) As a person who appreciates strategy myself, I agree with you on the importance of what you do. -Ben Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] UI - Making it an official project/goal?
I didn't see any responses to this message, but maybe I just missed them. I took a look at your site, Mike, and it looks interesting. Have you been working on UI design concepts for LibreOffice? If so, I'd love to see what you've been thinking. Your feedback on the LibreOffice website would also be valuable--have you joined the website mailing list yet? -Ben On Oct 17, 2010, at 12:09 PM, Mike Houben wrote: Hey there, If i'm right TDF and LO are founded to go forward to the future and improve the application. In fact to do this and make a clean cut to our old history with OOo I'm willing to supervise the new identity of LO. I will not deny our sources to OOo but for the people out there and ourselves should we take the application to the future. This future is a new design. In another mail we talked about a themable application, this is one feature why the other opensource applications. I like to do this in the same way (I can't code this but I like to do the thinking and planning) In the same time i' already working in my head on a new basic template for the UI. It's a little bit crazy, for a new direction my idea could be cool ( I'm not sure but I hope that it will be). To explain myself a little bit: I like to take advantage of the whole widescreen, they are nearly a lot more. For my credentials look at my site: www.crazyhstudio.net I studied 3 years graphic design for web and multimedia. In this time I found my interest and love in UI. For the moment I'm studying informatics. Both in Belgium. I hope I made my idea and point clear if the are questions feel free to shot them. I'm always open for criticism ;) And please be nice, this is my first involvement in a real world project. Mike (or on the web: Houbsi) P.s. While rereading I found my love for the word but ;) Mobil gesendet Sent mobile Envoyé mobile -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] [SC] Steering Committee Info at the wiki
Hi Friedrich, On Oct 13, 2010, at 5:37 PM, Friedrich Strohmaier wrote: Hi Benjamin, *, Benjamin Horst schrieb: This is exactly why I suggested we look at multiple wiki engines before installing one and proceeding. ACL features of Foswiki make it easy to specify a separate set of pages or an individual page, and control who has edit access, view access, or no visibility of the page at all. Details: http://foswiki.org/System/AccessControl As far as I know there is some mechanism wikis can talk and exchange content. Do You know of that feature? They can generally import pages from other wiki engines, and convert to their own syntax. I think that's what you are referring to? If so, here is one example tool: http://foswiki.org/Extensions/MediaWikiToFoswikiContrib I think changing the wiki machine later on if this comes up to be useful will not be that big deal. For the moment I think mediawiki is a good joice because - people are used to work with - its already set up and in use - there already technical knowledge is present to drive it waiting a long time with hands prepared to work also can be frustrating. All of these are good points. The case for MediaWiki is solid--I just feel that we might be able to do even better. :) In fact, based on a comment by Bernhard in another thread, I'm now thinking about the merits of combining the main website with the wiki into one system managed by a CMS. This would be more friendly to end users--and could be managed by a sophisticated system like Drupal. I'm imagining the potential of its ad hoc group creation tools for managing regional LibreOffice projects, marketing, events, etc, along the lines of this site: http://groups.drupal.org/ (I'm sorry to have hijacked this thread--will continue on the website mailing list for those who'd like to follow along.) -Ben Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] [SC] Steering Committee Info at the wiki
This is exactly why I suggested we look at multiple wiki engines before installing one and proceeding. ACL features of Foswiki make it easy to specify a separate set of pages or an individual page, and control who has edit access, view access, or no visibility of the page at all. Well, my experience is that you can use whatever tools you want - If the community is willing to accept some basic rules, it is better to have an open system instead of putting restrictions at any other place. I have found that you can hack most any tool to work, more or less, but you'll be more efficient and effective if you plan it out better first! :) When trying to attract new community members, any little impediment can affect their willingness to join and participate. And regular, tiny frustrations can sometimes tire out even the most stalwart contributors. -Ben Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] [Fwd: Re: Docs page on wiki]
As the core project activity is generally carried out in English, I think the main wiki page should include both links to each of the language's landing pages, as well as links to the main categories and sections of the wiki in English. I'm working on a wireframe of the page layout that I'd like to share in the next day or two to clarify what I'm suggesting here. Our general goal should be ease of navigation for users of the site in each and every language, while keeping the hierarchy of IA as flat and browsable as possible. -Ben On Oct 11, 2010, at 6:50 AM, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: Forwarded Message From: El Cico elcico2...@yahoo.it Reply-to: documentat...@libreoffice.org To: documentat...@libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Docs page on wiki Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 11:03:23 +0100 (BST) Da: Sophie Gautier gautier.sop...@gmail.com A: documentat...@libreoffice.org Inviato: Lun 11 ottobre 2010, 10:43:42 Oggetto: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Docs page on wiki Thanks a lot for you work here. May be you should add the link to the main page so we are aware of the documentation page? Kind regards Sophie Hello Sophie, hello *, Just a suggestion about the wiki main page and wiki organization. Would it be possible to keep the main page a little more well-ordered, neat, to avoid the mess of OOo wiki main page? Would it be possible to have just links to each language main page, just as, for example, www.wikipedia.org ? And, finally, keep all pages of each language under each language code? In my opinion it would be easier, for a new user, to find things... I'm not wiki expert at all... just wondering if... Namaste! Cico :) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] Survey|Opinion - LibreOffice Install and Update
I don't feel like there are many Mac users talking about Mac issues on this list right now, but I know we're numerous, at least based on downloading statistics through the project history. To be thorough, here's my impression on installing for the Mac. On Oct 9, 2010, at 5:23 PM, Scott Furry wrote: From what we have heard on this topic so far: - Mac users have commented that they do not have an issue with the current installer available on the Mac platform. I'd like to clarify my previous comments here. The current installer works very well, but an incremental updater would be an even better option, if it allowed for smaller and quicker downloads and a background update process. (I see many users who simply don't update their software or forget to check for new versions, and Firefox and Chrome seem to have addressed this problem effectively with their auto updaters.) --- This survey is to gauge the views of the LibreOffice community on the install/update method of LibreOffice. Please voice your opinion so that these considerations may be taken into account when the LibreOffice method of install/update is studied by the developer team. Please *bottom-post* your opinions. How do you expect LibreOffice to be updated? In an approach that is as platform-native as possible. The current Mac installer uses a disk image (.dmg) approach, which is exactly right for first installation. How do you Install/Update LibreOffice? Currently, I download and install from the site. When upgrading, I simply overwrite the previous application bundle in OS X's Applications folder. What do you expect when Installing/Updating LibreOffice? To me, state-of-the-art software updating on OS X is an automatic, background updating mechanism that only requires the user to restart the application (and approve an update), at which point updates will be applied. Other programs have separate updating programs (iTunes being an example), if it was technically feasible, would having a separate install program for LibreOffice (with updating features) be useful to you? I find this concept very intriguing, and I think it could be the first step to a really cool app I've long wanted to see: if we band together with several other major FLOSS apps and build a unified installer/updater for Windows and Mac users, we could bring some of the advantages of Linux's package management systems to these platforms. Then, say, a user downloads Firefox or LibreOffice, and the updater application comes along with it. The package manager could help them update this application any time necessary, and it would also be able to suggest other apps they might like. Each FLOSS app could benefit from increased exposure, essentially piggybacking on the success of its siblings. I'd love to discuss this in greater depth, though it may be OT for this specific thread. Would having a download and update site, as well as a Unix|Linux package repository site, be of value to you? Yes, though I'm not sure exactly what this would do. -Ben Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: US Group Status ( was: Re: [tdf-discuss] Media contact for the USA )
Italo and Ryan: Thank you! I think this work is so important that we should form a small subgroup to focus intensely on it over the long term. I'd also like to thoroughly document the press contacts we cultivate as well as the PR methodology used--so that I and others can understand how this is done. Italo's presentations should form the nucleus of this, but we'll customize it for the North American market as needed. Once the new wiki is set up, let's document ourselves there. Until then, we can discuss and stub out the work on this list (or the marketing list, if that's more appropriate). -Ben On Oct 6, 2010, at 6:09 PM, Italo Vignoli wrote: Ryan Singer wrote: I'd also like to throw my hat in as a media representative. I've done paid PR work for multiple OSS vendors, and I was a marketing contact for OOo for 6 years. Also, I don't much, in detail, of what Italo is doing. I have been handling media relations for OOo as a traditional media representative for over six years now, with significant results (I have presented them at the last two conferences, and there is still a video of my show in Orvieto). I am willing to help. I have media trained the steering committee by conference call, which is not the most effective way of doing it but is nevertheless better than nothing. I would say that the first step is to build a media list of US journos, and start to establish relationships with them. Main target are PC and Windows journalists, then Mac, then Linux. I think that there is a marketing list now, and I would love to follow the discussion there. Ciao, Italo -- Italo Vignoli Mobile: +39.348.5653829 - VoIP: +39.02.320621813 Email: italo.vign...@gmail.com - Skype: italovignoli -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] Media contact for the USA
Hello Guy, I've long felt that a PR and media push in the USA could produce very strong results for OOo and now for LibO. I'd suggest we (I'm in NYC) model such a campaign after the work Italo Vignoli does in Italy, which has been so successful there. Are you a PR professional yourself? Such experience would be a boon! Ben Sent from my iPhone On Oct 6, 2010, at 11:31 AM, Guy Lunardi gluna...@novell.com wrote: Bonjour! I just noticed (should have much earlier) that there is no media contact based in the USA. Should there be a need for the Foundation and/or the steering committee to be represented in the US, I am more than happy to offer my assistance there. I already know and have worked with most of the journalists that are likely to cover LibreOffice and the Document Foundation. Having participated in at least one interview that Florian and Michael gave, I feel I can handle most if not all questions that would come our way. At any rate, should there be a need to have some on this side of the pond (and north of where Olivier is based), I am happy to help. Best regards, -Guy (in Cambridge, MA) PS: looking forward to the constructive conversations that will take place on this mailing list -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Feature Request
Ubuntu Brainstorm and many similar sites are powered by a Drupal distro called IdeaTorrent. The site is offline at the moment, but you'll normally find it here: http://www.ideatorrent.org/ Until that is back up, you can read more about it here: http://drupal.org/project/ideatorrent -Ben On Oct 6, 2010, at 6:48 AM, Paul A Norman wrote: Great - And the Bug tracker allows users to submit enhancements' requests : Thanks, Paul On 6 October 2010 22:07, Valter Mura valterm...@gmail.com wrote: In data martedì 5 ottobre 2010 20:55:56, RGB ES ha scritto: There is also a brainstorm section on kde forums: http://forum.kde.org/brainstorm.php#cat83 several ideas implemented on recent kde versions where first discussed t h er e And the Bug tracker allows users to submit enhancements' requests: https://bugs.kde.org/ -- Valter Registered Linux User #466410 http://counter.li.org Kubuntu Linux: www.kubuntu.org OpenOffice.org: www.openoffice.org -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfound ation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot b e deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/di scuss/ -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] [WEBSITE] Improvements for the wiki?
Hi Christoph, I am happy to be involved, especially in an area where I've had a lot of experience, like with wikis. I am interested in helping this process from initial strategy, to implementation and wiki farming (ongoing maintenance). My technical skills aren't quite strong enough to help you install, configure and update, though, so I'll focus on the information architecture and human-wiki interaction aspects. -Ben On Oct 5, 2010, at 6:45 PM, Christoph Noack wrote: Hi Benjamin, I'm sorry for answering your second mail first ... I totally missed this one. So to make it easy for me, thank you very much for this (your) introduction ... and also the hint Foswiki. I'm those guys who will set up the wiki technically, will have a look at it (just for the record: if I am the one who should set it up, we might never have one *g*). I'd be more than happy if you help us to get the wiki in a good shape. Cheers, Christoph Am Montag, den 04.10.2010, 19:52 -0400 schrieb Benjamin Horst: Thanks, Christoph. I've long been interested in wikis and the capabilities they can provide, the data structures and usage patterns that tend to work well, and the various wiki platforms available. -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] [WEBSITE] Improvements for the wiki?
Clearly, multilingual support will be very important to a successful wiki. Will we have pages generated in one language and then translated to others, or do we expect unique pages to be developed in lots of languages? My guess is that we need to support both--core content will be translated and mirrored in many languages, while certain content (especially local projects, for example) will generate new unique content in their languages. I've investigated briefly and found this possible approach to the problem: http://foswiki.org/Extensions/TopicTranslationsPlugin I also strongly support Regina's earlier points, especially regarding the licensing of content community members add. That may be something to add to the footer of each page in the wiki. One additional note below... -Ben On Oct 5, 2010, at 6:38 PM, Christoph Noack wrote: Hi Benjamin, great collection :-) Am Dienstag, den 05.10.2010, 07:38 -0400 schrieb Benjamin Horst: I agree that overthinking and overburdening a wiki with rigid process is harmful, but some upfront organization and planning is still necessary. Yes, rigid processes are harmful for a wiki - even if they want to achieve something good. But as you already point out, I'd like to guide some people initially, to not get lost. If one doesn't find information, then it is like nobody ever published it :-\ Some major sections that could be defined in the wiki: - Site Home (why not use the wiki for the main part of the site, including the homepage and download page?) - Documentation (bring this dynamic and enthusiastic group back home to the main site) - Development (public planning and release schedule) - Community Council (private section, if desired) - News Just a question: Do you expect news to be in the Wiki, or on the rather website? Or both? I'd like us to consider using the wiki for the website, or at least for a large part of it. (My comment above, why not use the wiki for the main part of the site... was meant to convey that idea.) Regardless of whether we decide on using the wiki for the main site, I think a strong case can be made to use it to manage our News page. (I would not recommend duplicating content, News or other, on both the wiki and separately elsewhere on the site. We should ultimately choose just one location, wherever it is.) - Events - Marketing and Advocacy - Design and Artwork - Teams and Projects By the way, I really like the idea of Special Interest Groups at Fedora. - More? Most presumably yes :-) So thanks for the great start! Adding to Christoph's list of other project wikis: * Mozilla https://wiki.mozilla.org/Main_Page * Ubuntu https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ Interesting, Ubuntu seems to separate the official Documentation (Wiki) and the do the work wiki. * Foswiki http://foswiki.org/Home/WebHome Mmh, din't knew that. Thanks! Benjamin, thanks for the comments ... most appreciated! Christoph Cheers, just my 2 Cents: On Monday 04 October 2010 23:54, Christoph Noack wrote: ... Step forward, and share your thoughts, too, please! But how to get started ... I mean ... without a wiki to document the statements. A wiki is a wiki is a wiki - so just set one up and let it self-organize. Do not define too much contstraints in advance. Do not define too special rules in beforehead but rather let them evolve. People in free projects tend to be very constructive, so let them do their work. The final decision which wiki engine to take should be made by the prospective core admins (as they will have to handle it). A bad engine with a good admin is far better than a good engine with a poor admin. Rules should be made only _after_ a certain period of experience. And they should be defined by the users of the wiki. All that said, I'd prefere to have a wiki farm for different languages and not one multilanguage wiki - just to enhance usability (mainly the search function). Nino -- Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] [WEBSITE] Improvements for the wiki?
Thanks, Christoph. I've long been interested in wikis and the capabilities they can provide, the data structures and usage patterns that tend to work well, and the various wiki platforms available. I've read Wikipatterns, which is a book I recommend to others interested in this subject. Much of its information is available on its website: http://www.wikipatterns.com/ I am a fan of MediaWiki, but I think we should consider other wiki platforms as well. My recommendation, in fact, is Foswiki (http://foswiki.org/), which forked from TWiki about a year ago, and is GPL 2.0-licensed. (Their experience was similar to what we're going through with LibreOffice's birth right now.) Foswiki's got some advanced features that we could really use, including separate webs that isolate major logical sections from one another (and allow different access permissions for each web, so that a Community Council group, for example, could maintain a private web for internal discussions). It offers a good WYSIWYG text editor, allows dynamic pages for things like to-do lists, and has extensions that provide extra functionality. It also supports macros and forms that let you build applications within the wiki itself, which would let us do some really cool stuff. I've got a lot more to say on the subject, but don't want to start off with too large a soliloquy. I'm looking forward to what others say on this subject as well. -Ben On Oct 4, 2010, at 5:54 PM, Christoph Noack wrote: Good evening everyone, the subject already tells you, this mail is about Wiki improvements. What Wiki? you might ask. Correct, there is none ... but if we want to change that, it'll be great to know what we require. Once it is set up, I'm confident that a reasonable structure will greatly help us. I assume that our Wiki will be used by all kinds of community members - being it users, all kinds of contributors, the final foundation people. And it will be used for very different things, e.g. planning conferences, documenting best practices, providing documentation. Well, although there are still discussions whether we need team ABZ or XYZ ... some topics can't be avoided to shape a complex thing like LibreOffice. As far as I understand, many of you have a great experience to work with tools like Wikis. Very good! And - also my hope - we will also hear some voices who are less experienced. Step forward, and share your thoughts, too, please! But how to get started ... I mean ... without a wiki to document the statements. My proposal is to collect some experiences when working with Wiki content (not so much the Wiki system itself) ... what is good, what can be improved? It would be great if you could explain why, e.g. I always find everything I need within a few clicks., and stating what you usually do (e.g. QA work). And you may add what you expect from a website - being different from a wiki. Just to give you an idea, I've picked some of the larger projects to state examples. A certain size is required, since we are complex too ... but we don't want to be complicated. Feel free to add any kind of project you like to refer to... * Fedora Project Wiki https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Project_Wiki * Gnome Live! http://live.gnome.org/ * KDE Wiki http://wiki.kde.org/ * Apache General Wiki http://wiki.apache.org/general/ At the moment, it seems appropriate to use this mailing list. But, I'm sure we'll have a dedicated website list tomorrow or Wednesday latest. So please also decide what to do ... discuss it here, or wait for the list. It is up to us :-) Thank you so much! Cheers, Christoph -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] [WEBSITE] Improvements for the wiki?
Any reason for that preference? What other wikis have you worked with, and what do you think are their particular strengths and weaknesses? I probably should not have introduced the question of wiki platform at this stage, before we have discussed the higher level requirements and information architecture we'd like to build out. I don't want to sideline the conversation into specific platforms before we get a broad overview of requirements first. -Ben On Oct 4, 2010, at 8:53 PM, Jonathan Zacsh wrote: I'd like to see this project use mediawiki http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki -- Jonathan Zacsh On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 19:52, Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com wrote: Thanks, Christoph. I've long been interested in wikis and the capabilitie s they can provide, the data structures and usage patterns that tend to wor k well, and the various wiki platforms available. I've read Wikipatterns, which is a book I recommend to others interested in this subject. Much of its information is available on its website: http://www.wikipatterns.com/ I am a fan of MediaWiki, but I think we should consider other wiki platfo rms as well. My recommendation, in fact, is Foswiki (http://foswiki.org/), which forked from TWiki about a year ago, and is GPL 2.0-licensed. (Their e xperience was similar to what we're going through with LibreOffice's birth right now.) Foswiki's got some advanced features that we could really use, including separate webs that isolate major logical sections from one another (and a llow different access permissions for each web, so that a Community Council group, for example, could maintain a private web for internal discussions) . It offers a good WYSIWYG text editor, allows dynamic pages for things lik e to-do lists, and has extensions that provide extra functionality. It also supports macros and forms that let you build applications within the wiki itself, which would let us do some really cool stuff. I've got a lot more to say on the subject, but don't want to start off wi th too large a soliloquy. I'm looking forward to what others say on this su bject as well. -Ben On Oct 4, 2010, at 5:54 PM, Christoph Noack wrote: Good evening everyone, the subject already tells you, this mail is about Wiki improvements. What Wiki? you might ask. Correct, there is none ... but if we want to change that, it'll be great to know what we require. Once it is set up, I'm confident that a reasonable structure will greatly help us. I assume that our Wiki will be used by all kinds of community members - being it users, all kinds of contributors, the final foundation people. And it will be used for very different things, e.g. planning conferences, documenting best practices, providing documentation. Well, although there are still discussions whether we need team ABZ or XYZ ... some topics can't be avoided to shape a complex thing like LibreOffice. As far as I understand, many of you have a great experience to work with tools like Wikis. Very good! And - also my hope - we will also hear some voices who are less experienced. Step forward, and share your thoughts, too, please! But how to get started ... I mean ... without a wiki to document the statements. My proposal is to collect some experiences when working with Wiki content (not so much the Wiki system itself) ... what is good, what can be improved? It would be great if you could explain why, e.g. I always find everything I need within a few clicks., and stating what you usually do (e.g. QA work). And you may add what you expect from a website - being different from a wiki. Just to give you an idea, I've picked some of the larger projects to state examples. A certain size is required, since we are complex too ... but we don't want to be complicated. Feel free to add any kind of project you like to refer to... * Fedora Project Wiki https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Project _Wiki * Gnome Live! http://live.gnome.org/ * KDE Wiki http://wiki.kde.org/ * Apache General Wiki http://wiki.apache.org/general/ At the moment, it seems appropriate to use this mailing list. But, I'm sure we'll have a dedicated website list tomorrow or Wednesday latest. So please also decide what to do ... discuss it here, or wait for the list. It is up to us :-) Thank you so much! Cheers, Christoph -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoun dation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/d iscuss/ Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfound ation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot b e deleted. List archives
Re: [tdf-discuss] [GENERAL] New name
...@documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%252Bunsubscribe @documentfoundation.org discuss%252bunsubscr...@d ocumentfoundation.org discuss%252bunsubscr...@doc umentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and ca nn ot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ -- Q: Why is this email five sentences or less? A: http://five.sentenc.es -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bunsubscr...@docu mentfoundation.org discuss%2bunsubscr...@docume ntfoundation.org discuss%2bunsubscr...@document foundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cann ot b e deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ -- *Alexandro Colorado* *OpenOffice.org* Español http://es.openoffice.org -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bunsubscr...@docume ntfoundation.org discuss%2bunsubscr...@document foundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot b e deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bunsubscr...@document foundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot b e deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ -- Jussi Silvonen http://www.mendeley.com/profiles/jussi-silvonen/ http://mosapiha.wordpress.com/ http://silvonen.wordpress.com/ Free software for free people! -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
