Re: [IxDA Discuss] Importance of Masters Degree for IxD Professionals
Jumping back to what Will said: curriculum development is going to happen with or without us (the community of IxDA) - so we can either lead, follow, or shut the F* up. I think it would be great if IxDA came up with a proposed curriculum that could be used by schools to build new offerings in the IxD field. I know it would help some colleagues I've talked to who themselves have begun to have conversations with various schools in my area about designing new classes on UX subjects. And the more schools with solid offerings there are the less of a challenge regional location will become for those like Fred, Marilia and myself. -- adam connor [EMAIL PROTECTED] twitter.com/adamconnor David Malouf wrote: In the end, I don't see it scaling. My estimation is that we need to increase our size in the next 5-10 years by an order of magnitude 10x's greater than our current numbers. I don't see how the journy-person approach can do that. To me this approach would fall under organic that I don't see working for us on So many levels. -- dave Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Importance of Masters Degree for IxD Professionals
I don't want to complicate things more than they already are. I'm an Interaction Designer (have been for only about a year and a half now) and what brought me here was a combination of two of my passions: technology and psych. I'm currently working towards a PhD in Psychology, and I see the discipline very closely related to UX. At its best, UX is the domain of multi-disciplinary folks. What are your thoughts on the different sets of knowledge/skills required of a *great* user experience designer? Loredana On Jun 22, 2008, at 5:54 AM, Adam Connor wrote: Jumping back to what Will said: curriculum development is going to happen with or without us (the community of IxDA) - so we can either lead, follow, or shut the F* up. I think it would be great if IxDA came up with a proposed curriculum that could be used by schools to build new offerings in the IxD field. I know it would help some colleagues I've talked to who themselves have begun to have conversations with various schools in my area about designing new classes on UX subjects. And the more schools with solid offerings there are the less of a challenge regional location will become for those like Fred, Marilia and myself. -- adam connor [EMAIL PROTECTED] twitter.com/adamconnor David Malouf wrote: In the end, I don't see it scaling. My estimation is that we need to increase our size in the next 5-10 years by an order of magnitude 10x's greater than our current numbers. I don't see how the journy-person approach can do that. To me this approach would fall under organic that I don't see working for us on So many levels. -- dave Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Importance of Masters Degree for IxD Professionals
Perhaps it is this very preference for cranking out designs that has limited the advancement of the field of design? There are, no doubt, firms with this preference, and firms who aspire advance the field. The design field no doubt requires both. And it's Prima donna. ;) Sean On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 7:21 PM, Mark Ehrhardt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And PhD's have routinely been bottom of the wrung candidates, (seriously) . We consider a PhD to be a negative, with candidates having consistent issues such as - premadonna, no business sense, no real world sense, poor design skills, poor coding skills, (in a make it happen type of world) . Why on earth would you consider hiring a PhD if you are going to evaluate them using the same criteria you would an undergrad? PhDs are researchers... they further the field of design. You hire them if you need this type of thinking / work... not if you need someone to crank out designs. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=30391 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
[IxDA Discuss] Google and Usability
There's a brief post on Google's Usability Lab over at TechCrunch. Not a lot of info, but in case anyone is interested: http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/06/22/a-peak-inside-googles-usability-lab/ -- adam connor [EMAIL PROTECTED] twitter.com/adamconnor Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Google and Usability
On Jun 22, 2008, at 9:35 AM, Adam Connor wrote: here's a brief post on Google's Usability Lab over at TechCrunch. Not a lot of info, but in case anyone is interested: http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/06/22/a-peak-inside-googles-usability-lab/ Yah, this is just one lab. There's several. Jared Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
[IxDA Discuss] Examples of Advancements in Design
Hi folks, Following up on the recent thread about higher degrees in design and such, I find myself very curious to know about how current or past research/higher degrees have already advanced interaction design. Do you all have any examples of, e.g., dissertations, theses, acadmic projects, or professional work from folks with higher degrees that have concretely advanced the field of design? I think of Norman's POET (or DOET :)) as maybe such an example of research having a notable influence (not sure if it was innovative, though--maybe someone with more experience/knowledge of the field could chime in on that point). Also, Designing Interactions has some interesting stories along these lines; interestingly, seems like most of those were spurred more by private (not academic) interests/investment. Have there been more recent innovations that came out of research programs that either have or you think will have notable impact? --Ambrose Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Google and Usability
Cool. Are you able to share any information with us Jared? Are all of the setups similar? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=30511 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] IxDA Curriculum (Was: Importance of Masters Degree for IxD Professionals)
Dan, What do you see included in in the Undergrad, Year 2 - Information Design and Visualization course? The reason I ask is that in looking through your list I was looking for something introductory on design patterns/principals (something along the lines of the Universal Principals of Design book). I've found on more than a few occasions in talking with High School seniors (the company I work for takes a lot of them on as summer interns) looking to one day get into IxD or UX that many of them have no exposure to these principals. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=30515 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Importance of Masters Degree for IxD Professionals
But it doesn't match the rigor of true in-depth intellectual study and analysis and, just being challenged by a professor or students *in your face* to heighten/deepen your understanding of the history, theory, issues, etc. Nothing matches the rigor of an actual workplace and the deadline to ship product. Fact: a huge number of failed businesses are led by MBAs, Fact: some of the most spectacular success stories, especially in our industry, are led by college drop-outs (cf. Gates, Jobs, Dell, Zuckerberg, etc), Fact: educational institutions have failed to produce curricula relevant to fast changing workplace demands, Fact: many degreed but ineffectual designers have been spotted in the wild, Fact: so have non-degreed but excellent designers. Conclusion: It's silly to set these rules and expectations without individual contexts. -- Kontra http://counternotions.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Sketching as a Wireframing Tool
I got out of practice from sketching years ago Mike. I created a bad habit of doing quick mockups in photoshop, illustrator or omnigraffle. I went back to doing wireframes in a moleskine about six months ago and just switch to the behance dot-grids about a month ago. Now that I'm back to pencil/pen wireframes, I find I can get many ideas down quicker. I wish I had never strayed from pencil/pen wireframing. BTW... y . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=30390 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Sketching as a Wireframing Tool
Hi - I'm new to this group, so pardon my intrusion. I hope this is the right place to ask - I have a comment to toss in and and question; Interesting thread on sketching. A book I really like about sketching UE stuff which applies to some interaction design issues is a book by Bill Buxton called Sketching User Experiences (Morgan Kaufmann).In the book he discussed different ways of doing this, even sometimes on planes of glass viewable from two sides then. The book got me so interested in sketching, that I've thought about taking a sketching class at a local community college. My old engineering drafting methods are just too perfectionistic and slow. There are also a lot of great ideas in the books by Edward Tufte. My question is for a recommendation on a good book on interaction design. I already have The Essentials of Interaction Design by Cooper/Reimann, was looking for other recommendations. Web design types are plentiful, but also interested in other modalities. thanks much, 'mark Glenn Walker wrote: Pencil/pen and paper or whiteboard, then onto tool of choice (Fireworks/Smartdraw/Visio, plus SnagIt) for more formal wireframes. I'm still trying to determine which of the 3 I like best for wireframing. Just started trying out Fireworks CS3 but have used Smartdraw forever and it seems to be my go to app because of familiarity. I would love to try Axure, but the license is a little steep. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=30390 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
[IxDA Discuss] slight out of topic .. which best ixda MFA programs?
sorry guys.. from the interesting discussion regarding an master degree.. I was wandering .. in your opinion and experiences, which are good master programs out there ? I dont want to look for the perfection, which is impossible in the case, and dont want to open a pandora's box .. i was just wondering which are your impressions from the field .. m Il giorno 21/giu/08, alle ore 02:11, j. eric townsend ha scritto: Uday Gajendar wrote: Speaking as a Master's degree holder, i'm biased but I'd say the advantages are primarily: That pretty much lines up with my desire to go back to grad school, especially #3. I've got a ton of industry experience in related disciplines, but taking a year or two off of everything to focus on design thinking 24/7 at a name school would make a huge difference in my way of thinking and my way of working. It's one thing to read _Designing Interactions_ or _Design for the Real World_ over the course of a few evenings at home after work; another entirely to read those as part of a structured learning event and then debate/discuss it with my peers over the course of a week (or four). -- jet / KG6ZVQ http://www.flatline.net pgp: 0xD0D8C2E8 AC9B 0A23 C61A 1B4A 27C5 F799 A681 3C11 D0D8 C2E8 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\___ kinotek live media vjing http://kinotek.org - [EMAIL PROTECTED] cell. 00393332152448 skype. mat_kinotek ___/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Sketching as a Wireframing Tool
Hi Mark, I think the Buxton book, even on its third reading, is probably more important than any other design book I have read in the two years since grad school. Mark On Jun 21, 2008, at 10:00 AM, Mark Ahlenius wrote: Hi - I'm new to this group, so pardon my intrusion. I hope this is the right place to ask - I have a comment to toss in and and question; Interesting thread on sketching. A book I really like about sketching UE stuff which applies to some interaction design issues is a book by Bill Buxton called Sketching User Experiences (Morgan Kaufmann).In the book he discussed different ways of doing this, even sometimes on planes of glass viewable from two sides then. The book got me so interested in sketching, that I've thought about taking a sketching class at a local community college. My old engineering drafting methods are just too perfectionistic and slow. There are also a lot of great ideas in the books by Edward Tufte. My question is for a recommendation on a good book on interaction design. I already have The Essentials of Interaction Design by Cooper/Reimann, was looking for other recommendations. Web design types are plentiful, but also interested in other modalities. thanks much, 'mark Glenn Walker wrote: Pencil/pen and paper or whiteboard, then onto tool of choice (Fireworks/Smartdraw/Visio, plus SnagIt) for more formal wireframes. I'm still trying to determine which of the 3 I like best for wireframing. Just started trying out Fireworks CS3 but have used Smartdraw forever and it seems to be my go to app because of familiarity. I would love to try Axure, but the license is a little steep. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=30390 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Importance of Masters Degree for IxD Professionals
On Jun 20, 2008, at 6:35 PM, Kontra wrote: But it doesn't match the rigor of true in-depth intellectual study and analysis and, just being challenged by a professor or students *in your face* to heighten/deepen your understanding of the history, theory, issues, etc. Nothing matches the rigor of an actual workplace and the deadline to ship product. Fact: a huge number of failed businesses are led by MBAs, Fact: a huge number of businesses are run by MBA's. Can you point to a specific correlation between an MBA and failure? Nearly all airplanes that crash were in the hands of licensed pilots... that statement says nothing. Fact: some of the most spectacular success stories, especially in our industry, are led by college drop-outs (cf. Gates, Jobs, Dell, Zuckerberg, etc), Fact: Exceptions and the contrast of what is intuitive and seems obvious, make for great headlines. This is a better statement about the nature of journalism as a profession. Fact: educational institutions have failed to produce curricula relevant to fast changing workplace demands, Compared to what? Flying by the seat of your pants? Fact: many degreed but ineffectual designers have been spotted in the wild, Sure, but are they the majority? How does this compare to your view of more general incompetence in the workplace? Fact: so have non-degreed but excellent designers. See above... Conclusion: It's silly to set these rules and expectations without individual contexts. So what should the take away be here Kontra? Are you suggesting that young designers have a higher probability of success and greatness if they avoid a structured learning path? Is this really the guidance that your would lend say... your children? -- Kontra http://counternotions.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Importance of Masters Degree for IxD Professionals
True, Kontra, but the challenge comes from a different angle, generally erring on the side of less change, more conservatism. This is why I keep raising the specter of what happened with the industry-norming of journalism degrees, which are not doing the field any favors. Industry-norming is not the best direction for a field to take, if it has any intention of being on the leading edge of innovation. Instead, it would lead the field to permanent follower status, always teaching dated status quo (as you say, that's already a pitfall in academic programs, so consider this dated status quo squared). Has anyone encountered stakeholders or clients who actually challenge you to be MORE out of the box than you already are, instead of less? Regarding failed businesses etc... I'm just speaking from my own experience over many years, but have y'all seen the remarkable number of badly run businesses that have no business still being in business, yet they still make money, IN SPITE OF a series of repeatedly insanely stupid business decisions? I shouldn't be surprised by it anymore, but it still boggles my mind. Success or failure of a business is not the best indicator of good business practices, in any industry sector or discipline. In another part of the thread, someone (sorry, I forget who, Dave I think), raised a contrast between cranking out designs and higher level design skill, noting that if the field's main demand is for the crank out variety, high level preparation can be overwrought or overkill (hope I'm summarizing accurately). That raises an interesting problem of status for designers, and for positioning the field in general. Do we position the profession toward higher level design discussions, and let employers find their design-crank fodder bodies elsewhere, or do we see the demand for design-crank fodder as something we should try to meet by encouraging programs to produce students for this level of work only? Again, the same problem with journalists, where there are two distinct tiers operating in the US, and it is very difficult to cross between them, once you get tracked on one side or the other. One is higher status and higher level reporting and writing, without having to track instantly to management before you start making real money. It is generally fed from Ivy League liberal arts majors with lots of prep school-type connections. This upper class of journalists also sets the national thought agenda for the nation (think Pravda). The other is fed directly from a majority of bread-and-butter state university journalism programs, and the jobs are low wage, for nearly assembly-line type of cranking out stories fodder (the same way one might crank out designs). Those local stories fill the AP news river, and the AP news river allows the majority of corporate-owned chain newspapers and TV stations to operate with teeny staffs of assembly line journalists who do little more than rewrite and repurpose existing AP copy (in design, think design templates and design patterns). They get to do little actual reporting, although they may cover local stories, with an overt imperative not to break anything controversial, because only real reporters are allowed to do that, meaning top tier (many of whom never took a formal press law course in their lives). [this is a massive shift from even 25 years ago, btw] So I ask all of you, is a corporate-industry imperative leading us to stratify this field? Industry pressure is to keep wages as low as possible for the type of work at hand, so the more IxD work can be made into design work that can be cranked, the more positions to do that can be filled with lower cost workers, younger workers, an army of them. Yet that very army's existence, once it does exist (as Dave points out, it doesn't yet), will lead to the disappearance of higher level design jobs, by the conservative force of industry cost-cutting. It will also be a force against innovation (although I tend to be against innovation for the sake of innovation, which can be more gratuitous than functional). Take that movement a step further (and I only bring this up to raise flags, not because I think this will happen), and you have a field that could become like journalism, that would eat its young as fodder for design-crank jobs, with no possibility of advancement, no natural motion into higher wage positions, except to leave the field for something else. I'm just cautioning against this, against turning a field into the assembly line factory workers of the Information Age, destined to be laid off by age 50 or sooner, if you don't leave the field of your on volition before then, whenever your annual salary increases reach a certain level. I'm not saying anybody is doing this. I'm just warning of the pitfall. Chris On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 6:35 PM, Kontra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But it doesn't match the rigor of true in-depth intellectual study and analysis and, just being challenged by a
[IxDA Discuss] Ambient Information Systems 2008: Journal Special Issue and Submission Deadline Extension
NEWS UPDATES We have been invited to contribute a special issue on Ambient Information Systems in the International Journal of Ambient Computing and Intelligence (IJACI). The authors of the best papers submitted to AIS2008 will be invited to submit extensions to their papers in this special issue. Both short and long papers will be considered for inclusion. With this news in mind we have decided to extend the deadline for submission by 2 weeks to the 11th June. The new CFP is below. === CFP: Workshop: Ambient Information Systems (AIS2008) http://ambientinformation.org/ At Ubicomp 2008 (http://ubicomp.org/ubicomp2008/) Sunday, September 21, 2008, COEX, Seoul, South Korea Short work-in-progress papers (up to 4 pages), Long papers (up to 10 pages) Demonstrators, designs, and artwork *New Deadline: Submissions due: July 11th 2008 by 11:59pm PST * Authors of the best submitted papers will be invited to contribute to a special issue on Ambient Information Systems in the International Journal of Ambient Computing and Intelligence (IJACI). === OVERVIEW Ambient Information Systems describe a large set of applications that publish information in a highly non-intrusive manner, following on from Mark Weiser's concept of calm technology. Building on the success of AIS2007 at Pervasive 2007, this workshop will bring together researchers working in the areas of ambient displays, peripheral displays, slow technology, glanceable displays, and calm technology, to discuss and collaborate on developing new design approaches for creating ambient information systems. We are calling for paper submissions describing early-stage and mature research on Ambient Information Systems and for demonstrators across the spectrum from technology to art and design. MOTIVATION The current research in pervasive and ubiquitous computing suggests a future in which we are surrounded by innumerable information sources all competing for our attention. These technologies will manifest in novel devices and as devices embedded in common objects such as refrigerators, automobiles, toys, furniture, clothes, and possibly our own bodies. While this vision of the future has prompted great advancements in context-aware computing, wireless connectivity, multi-sensor platforms, smart materials, and location-tracking technologies, there is a concern that this proliferation of technology will increasingly overwhelm us with information. Our belief is that information should move seamlessly between the periphery and the center of one's attention, and that good technology is highly transparent. We see ambient information systems as a way to support these ideas. Some work has already been done to create interesting ambient information systems (e.g., AmbientDevices' Stock Orb, Koert van Mensvoort's Datafountain, Jafarinami et al.'s Breakaway, Mynatt et al.'s Audio Aura and Digital Family Portrait, and Mankoff et al.'s Daylight Display and BusMobile). However, ambient information systems research is fragmented, and suffering from a lack of consensus on terminology, methodology, plausibility, and general agreement on how to think about such technologies. We see this workshop as an opportunity for invited participants to explore and discuss such issues. OBJECTIVE The workshop will be used as an opportunity to work as a group to identify problems in the design, development, and evaluation of AIS and to derive fundamental challenges of AIS research. Attendees should develop a deeper understanding of the challenges that need to be addressed and some potential solutions to the problems that have been encountered by others. The group discussions throughout the workshop will also be used to encourage new collaborations within the community. We will publish the accepted submissions and slides on the workshop's website upon receiving consent from the authors. The publication of submissions to the website will not be considered official publications and therefore will not prohibit attendees from developing their work further and publishing it elsewhere. This will be made clear on the website and on the online proceedings. After the workshop, the organizers will contact relevant journals with the goal of producing a special issue on ambient information systems containing extended versions of the best papers from this workshop. The organizers will also put together a document outlining the grand challenges for the field of ambient information systems with a view to publishing either in the special issue or as a stand-alone journal publication. WORKSHOP TOPICS The workshop topics are for the most part listed as a set of questions: * How are ambient information systems distinct from other information technologies? * What are examples of useful heuristics, frameworks, taxonomies, or design
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Importance of Masters Degree for IxD Professionals
So what should the take away be here Kontra? Are you suggesting that young designers have a higher probability of success and greatness if they avoid a structured learning path? Is this really the guidance that your would lend say... your children? I think the point - Ok, and I'll only speak for myself - is that it's ludicrous to say there's a single path to greatness, especially in IxD. We're not a guild, hell, even IxDA is a loose association of professionals who do a wide range of things on every level. There are things you can only get from formalized education. There are things you don't need formalized education for in this field, and can only be learned from experience. Our team consists of 2 people who are completely self-taught and don't have degrees in anything resembling any aspect of design, 1 who is a traditional graphic designer and one with a Master's in HCI. None of us carry the title of Interaction Designer, but all of us have to incorporate principles and approaches which are forged in the discipline. Prior to going to interaction08, I'd never met anyone with this specific job title. To me - the uneducated orangutan that I am - it all seemed to matter more that the purpose was to infuse our companies, products, designs and projects with the ideas that IxD (and A) held as relevant and important, as transmitted by the presenters and authors, and whether we had a specialized degree or just viewed it as 'a piece of paper', this was the Purpose. People who did Interaction Design every working hour, or people who wished their designs, architecture, documentation or project plans made for a better user experience, were all parts of this grouping, but it never seemed to be making a homogeneous singular unit. Was I incorrect? This has been a fun exercise in presenting dichotomies, but really, am I being naive? Scott -- (The key to joy is disobedience There is no guilt and there is no shame) - COIL Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Examples of Advancements in Design
I'm a bit out of the loop for recent, but just to rail off a few from the top of my head: Moodle, the open source e-learning courseware support platform, has arisen largely from academic research into pedagogical interface design. Most of the best research into advanced VR interfaces and evolving interface conventions have come out of academic research labs. Carnegie Melon is starting to really kick ass in this area too, aren't they? Beyond CAVE and the other usual suspects. The most rigorous HCI and usability testing methods can be found in academia, which is not bound by many of the expediencies that can bias results, such as you find in industry usability practices, which are often very sloppy and possibly invalid most of the time. Then, when you add in the innovations in wearable computing interfaces, ubiquitous computing/ambient interface effects, and interactive cinema interfaces that have come out of places like the MIT Media Lab and GA Tech, I'd say the scale tips way over into academic research as being quite a bit more innovative. You could also count Google coming out of Stanford, right? At a time when everyone thought that search interfaces were cluttered portals, and that no new innovation could come into that area. Take Stanford out of the picture, and would you even have Google? (going back into the day... we could also link Lycos to CMU, and didn't WebCrawler come out of a university as well?) Again, I hearken back to history, but a lot more has come out of NCSA at Champaign Urbana than just Marc Andreessen. Perhaps most significantly, we might notice one interface in particular that DIDN'T come out of academia, or really what anyone would call industry for that matter either: blogs. After the development of the graphical browser at NCSA in 1993, I'd say the innovation brought about by blogs (and not just Dave Winer and RSS) has had the largest effect on the landscape of the Internet. Hum, maybe no. I might have to put Google ahead of blogs and RSS, and social media after that. Think of how we can now divide our universe. For a while, it was pre-web, and post-web. Now, I like to refer to our world as BG and AG, meaning Before Google, and After Google. I think also we are reaching the point where we might also make a division of the world into BB and AB, meaning Before Blogosphere, and After Blogosphere. Chris On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 9:57 AM, J. Ambrose Little [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi folks, Following up on the recent thread about higher degrees in design and such, I find myself very curious to know about how current or past research/higher degrees have already advanced interaction design. Do you all have any examples of, e.g., dissertations, theses, acadmic projects, or professional work from folks with higher degrees that have concretely advanced the field of design? I think of Norman's POET (or DOET :)) as maybe such an example of research having a notable influence (not sure if it was innovative, though--maybe someone with more experience/knowledge of the field could chime in on that point). Also, Designing Interactions has some interesting stories along these lines; interestingly, seems like most of those were spurred more by private (not academic) interests/investment. Have there been more recent innovations that came out of research programs that either have or you think will have notable impact? --Ambrose Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] IxDA Curriculum (Was: Importance of Masters Degree for IxD Professionals)
Ooh, I love this one! Philosophy of Interaction Design from Heidegger to Benjamin to Bahktin You know what I think is needed for an elective, from a cultural studies perspective? History and Online Cultures in Networked Computer Systems from DARPA to Present (still hitting the early theorists, like Vannevar Bush, Nelson, et al.) Chris On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 11:21 AM, Will Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Amen! This is what I hoped for when I said we could and should advise on we think would be good for the profession. A couple of additions to the Dan's Grad Program: Electives: Introduction to Marketing and Branding Philosophy of Interaction Design from Heidegger to Benjamin to Bahktin Introduction to Linguistics and Semiotics Critical Theory - Formalism to Post-Structuralism Business Process Management On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 10:41 AM, Dan Saffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 22, 2008, at 5:54 AM, Adam Connor wrote: I think it would be great if IxDA came up with a proposed curriculum that could be used by schools to build new offerings in the IxD field. As a thought experiment, here are my dream courses for undergrad and grad (Master's): UNDERGRADUATE Year 1: Sketching and Modeling Introduction to Typography Industrial Design Fundamentals Introduction to Programming Writing Fundamentals Year 2: Intermediate Industrial Design Intermediate Typography Information Design and Visualization Introduction to Cognitive Psychology Design History Year 3: Design Research Digital Prototyping Physical Computing Design Theory Interface Design Year 4: Senior Project Studio: Projects with New Technology Advanced Topics (CD, ID, CS, Psychology, Anthropology) Current Topics in IxD Documenting Systems Ideally, there would be a mix of humanities classes in here as well. GRADUATE Year 1: Refresher Courses (sampler as per undergrad courses) Design Theory Design Strategy Design Research Analysis Business Fundamentals Year 2: Master's Thesis Master's Project Design Management Advanced Topics (CD, ID, CS, Psychology, Anthropology) Current Topics in IxD What's your list? Dan Dan Saffer, M.Des., IDSA Experience Design Director, Adaptive Path http://www.adaptivepath.com http://www.odannyboy.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help -- ~ will Where you innovate, how you innovate, and what you innovate are design problems - Will Evans | User Experience Architect tel +1.617.281.1281 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] twitter: https://twitter.com/semanticwill - Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Examples of Advancements in Design
Hi Cristine and all, Interesting discussion and points, Actually fairly equivalent precursors to Google were invented pre-1990 by the folks at Thinking Machines (notably, Danny Hillis, Brewster Kahle, Craig Stanfill and David Waltz). The program ran on massively parallel computers on about 5 years worth of the Wall Street Journal. The interface and functionality were pretty similar to Google (and it probably offered some secondary functionality that Google doesn't offer - I don't know enough about the Google algorithm to directly speak to it.) Another point to consider - is - that it is the technology underlying Google that allows its interface to be so simple. (as a note, most people who played a role in TMC's text retrieval project were phd's from MIT, although though it should be mentioned - in light of this set of discussions - that Brewster has a bachelor's degree in Mechanical Engineering from MIT). two references: http://battellemedia.com/archives/000712.php http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=7907dl=ACMcoll=portalCFID=33592154CFTOKEN=39196368 Thanks, Donna Fritzsche Information Architect/Ontologist On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 14:39:53 -0400, Christine Boese wrote I'm a bit out of the loop for recent, but just to rail off a few from the top of my head: Moodle, the open source e-learning courseware support platform, has arisen largely from academic research into pedagogical interface design. Most of the best research into advanced VR interfaces and evolving interface conventions have come out of academic research labs. Carnegie Melon is starting to really kick ass in this area too, aren't they? Beyond CAVE and the other usual suspects. The most rigorous HCI and usability testing methods can be found in academia, which is not bound by many of the expediencies that can bias results, such as you find in industry usability practices, which are often very sloppy and possibly invalid most of the time. Then, when you add in the innovations in wearable computing interfaces, ubiquitous computing/ambient interface effects, and interactive cinema interfaces that have come out of places like the MIT Media Lab and GA Tech, I'd say the scale tips way over into academic research as being quite a bit more innovative. You could also count Google coming out of Stanford, right? At a time when everyone thought that search interfaces were cluttered portals, and that no new innovation could come into that area. Take Stanford out of the picture, and would you even have Google? (going back into the day... we could also link Lycos to CMU, and didn't WebCrawler come out of a university as well?) Again, I hearken back to history, but a lot more has come out of NCSA at Champaign Urbana than just Marc Andreessen. Perhaps most significantly, we might notice one interface in particular that DIDN'T come out of academia, or really what anyone would call industry for that matter either: blogs. After the development of the graphical browser at NCSA in 1993, I'd say the innovation brought about by blogs (and not just Dave Winer and RSS) has had the largest effect on the landscape of the Internet. Hum, maybe no. I might have to put Google ahead of blogs and RSS, and social media after that. Think of how we can now divide our universe. For a while, it was pre- web, and post-web. Now, I like to refer to our world as BG and AG, meaning Before Google, and After Google. I think also we are reaching the point where we might also make a division of the world into BB and AB, meaning Before Blogosphere, and After Blogosphere. Chris Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Examples of Advancements in Design
Thanks Donna! Interesting info and historical perspective. Dunno which part of Google is limited to interaction design, but would we love the basic interaction of a single uncluttered text entry field for searching if it didn't have the screaming fast Google back-end and algorithms behind it? Yet the innovation, over other search predecessors, from a user's standpoint, was the simplified interface, and the willingness to devote all attention to search, rather than the distractions created by portal links and advertisers. However, the history of search is very interesting, and into this mix, I'd also throw U of Minnesota's gopher system, with Archie and Veronica. Funny, isn't it, for those of us who roamed around online in command line, pre-web days, that when you reflect upon them, the absence of search gave life more of an exploring an unknown woods feeling, but now, looking back, I'd say it really was more like exploring an unknown woods while wearing a blindfold. Even with Archie and Veronica. Chris On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 3:38 PM, Donna M. Fritzsche [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Cristine and all, Interesting discussion and points, Actually fairly equivalent precursors to Google were invented pre-1990 by the folks at Thinking Machines (notably, Danny Hillis, Brewster Kahle, Craig Stanfill and David Waltz). The program ran on massively parallel computers on about 5 years worth of the Wall Street Journal. The interface and functionality were pretty similar to Google (and it probably offered some secondary functionality that Google doesn't offer - I don't know enough about the Google algorithm to directly speak to it.) Another point to consider - is - that it is the technology underlying Google that allows its interface to be so simple. (as a note, most people who played a role in TMC's text retrieval project were phd's from MIT, although though it should be mentioned - in light of this set of discussions - that Brewster has a bachelor's degree in Mechanical Engineering from MIT). two references: http://battellemedia.com/archives/000712.php http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=7907dl=ACMcoll=portalCFID=33592154CFTOKEN=39196368 Thanks, Donna Fritzsche Information Architect/Ontologist On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 14:39:53 -0400, Christine Boese wrote I'm a bit out of the loop for recent, but just to rail off a few from the top of my head: Moodle, the open source e-learning courseware support platform, has arisen largely from academic research into pedagogical interface design. Most of the best research into advanced VR interfaces and evolving interface conventions have come out of academic research labs. Carnegie Melon is starting to really kick ass in this area too, aren't they? Beyond CAVE and the other usual suspects. The most rigorous HCI and usability testing methods can be found in academia, which is not bound by many of the expediencies that can bias results, such as you find in industry usability practices, which are often very sloppy and possibly invalid most of the time. Then, when you add in the innovations in wearable computing interfaces, ubiquitous computing/ambient interface effects, and interactive cinema interfaces that have come out of places like the MIT Media Lab and GA Tech, I'd say the scale tips way over into academic research as being quite a bit more innovative. You could also count Google coming out of Stanford, right? At a time when everyone thought that search interfaces were cluttered portals, and that no new innovation could come into that area. Take Stanford out of the picture, and would you even have Google? (going back into the day... we could also link Lycos to CMU, and didn't WebCrawler come out of a university as well?) Again, I hearken back to history, but a lot more has come out of NCSA at Champaign Urbana than just Marc Andreessen. Perhaps most significantly, we might notice one interface in particular that DIDN'T come out of academia, or really what anyone would call industry for that matter either: blogs. After the development of the graphical browser at NCSA in 1993, I'd say the innovation brought about by blogs (and not just Dave Winer and RSS) has had the largest effect on the landscape of the Internet. Hum, maybe no. I might have to put Google ahead of blogs and RSS, and social media after that. Think of how we can now divide our universe. For a while, it was pre- web, and post-web. Now, I like to refer to our world as BG and AG, meaning Before Google, and After Google. I think also we are reaching the point where we might also make a division of the world into BB and AB, meaning Before Blogosphere, and After Blogosphere. Chris Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe
Re: [IxDA Discuss] IxDA Curriculum (Was: Importance of Masters Degree for IxD Professionals)
Great thought experiment. Some things that came to mind when I read the list: 1. There is a jump between sketching and digital prototyping. I think that there should be a survey course on the entire range of prototyping methods to provide a suite of tools for interaction designers. The course would include: workflow diagrams, wireframes, metaphor, storyboards, wizard of OZ testing, personas (prototyping users), paper prototyping, card sorting, and a few other techniques. 2. Advanced user interface design that gets beyond the basics into things like agent technology, ambient user interfaces, etc. 3. Something on universal design and accessibility. There are a lot of aging baby boomers around (I'm one of them and the eyes aren't what they used to be). 4. Human factors fundamentals (this would be touched on in a number of the courses including the one on cognitive psych, but there are many principles in HF that have been heavily researched and that would provide designers with a stronger rationale for their recommenations and designs. 5. An experiential course in color (like the one that Albers did -- I took a course from one of Alber's students and it was quite an eye opener). Someone might have mentioned that. 6. Social psychological principles and their application to interaction design -- much of what we are developing is collaborative and involves groups working together so some old and some new social psych principles would provide a foundation for the design of collaboration software (which goes by different names like social networking...). 7. Fun and Pleasure in product design. Good topic. Chauncey UNDERGRADUATE Year 1: Sketching and Modeling Introduction to Typography Industrial Design Fundamentals Introduction to Programming Writing Fundamentals Year 2: Intermediate Industrial Design Intermediate Typography Information Design and Visualization Introduction to Cognitive Psychology Design History Year 3: Design Research Digital Prototyping Physical Computing Design Theory Interface Design Year 4: Senior Project Studio: Projects with New Technology Advanced Topics (CD, ID, CS, Psychology, Anthropology) Current Topics in IxD Documenting Systems Ideally, there would be a mix of humanities classes in here as well. GRADUATE Year 1: Refresher Courses (sampler as per undergrad courses) Design Theory Design Strategy Design Research Analysis Business Fundamentals Year 2: Master's Thesis Master's Project Design Management Advanced Topics (CD, ID, CS, Psychology, Anthropology) Current Topics in IxD Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] IxDA Curriculum (Was: Importance of Masters Degree for IxD Professionals)
The undergraduate aspect of this is the toughest. My degree was a BFA in graphic design (which I think is easier to grasp) but we didn't even _start_ the actual design classes until the 2nd year. The first year was focused on foundation courses in drawing and basic two- and three-dimensional form. I came back and taught in the design department a number of years later and in retrospect I saw that what we were really doing those first two years was simply teaching students how to approach problems in a designerly way. To care about craft. To sketch. To iterate. To _think_ like designers. It's hard to overstate how alien this is to most people and how long it takes to learn. Essentially you need to teach students how to be designers before you teach them how to be a particular kind of designer. But it's inhumane to drop an 18-year-old into a design curriculum. They need to ramp up and internalize the core design skills and work ethic. Even once they get into the actual design classes in the 2nd year it's really just baby steps; basic visual design fundamentals and basic design software skills. Then basic typography and information design etc... There's never enough time. Even for the design stuff. You can only realistically do about two studio design courses a semester, along with maybe a tangental studio course in photography or drawing. That's 18 hours of studio a week and another 18 hours outside of class working on projects. Plus lecture courses and general education. And teaching students to appreciate code while they're learning to be designers? Uhg. It's like pulling teeth to teach design students how HTML works, much less Actionscript or Processing. And once you take into account IA or human factors or research skills? I don't know if it's possible to do it within a four year college framework. I'd take Dan's list and besides adding much more history, a color theory course, a photography course, a motion course, a web design course and a design software course I'd add another year before everything, just for basics in drawing and experimenting with two-dimensional and three-dimensional form. Less rigorous than IDF. Give kids a chance to experiment and decide whether 36 hours a week of studio work is in their blood or not and weed out the dilatantes. What is that? Six years? The University of Cincinatti turns out skilled interface designers through their Bachelors of Science in Digital Design program. But they don't use the traditional college framework. It's a quarter system rather than semesters with a comprehensive internship program built into the curriculum. It's the closest thing I know to an undergraduate interface design degree. // jeff . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=30515 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] slight out of topic .. which best ixda MFA programs?
Hi Mat, The only MFA in Interaction Design I know of is at the University of Washington. Carnegie Mellon has a Masters in Interaction Design but it's not an MFA, it's an M.Des. // jeff . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=30524 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] IxDA Curriculum (Was: Importance of Masters Degree for IxD Professionals)
Which is why I do not think you can properly prepare an interaction designer within the constructs of a bachelors degree. Given what Dan outlines as a curriculum, and what Jeff has added (which I totally agree with) it IS a lot. Also factor in that this excludes the well rounded liberal arts courses as do most design degrees. Skip the classics of literature? Pass on in-depth wold history, logic or philosophies? One of the keys to being a successful interaction designer is being a more than competent human - the ability to understand people does not come from a psych class. You can not count on (public or otherwise) high school for this stuff. This is a difficult job to do well. And yes, I know that there are people who do it well with out any degree at all. But there is also a ton of really bad Ixd out there being done everyday by designers with and without a graduate degree. If you are one of those who do it well, without the help of college, then congratulations - that is really something special. But be very careful in prescribing that same path to others. The breadth of human understanding, with a very deep design understanding does not come easy or quickly... no matter how high the demand or how much we want to grow the profession and this association. Mark On Jun 22, 2008, at 1:42 PM, Jeff Howard wrote: I'd take Dan's list and besides adding much more history, a color theory course, a photography course, a motion course, a web design course and a design software course I'd add another year before everything, just for basics in drawing and experimenting with two-dimensional and three-dimensional form. Less rigorous than IDF. Give kids a chance to experiment and decide whether 36 hours a week of studio work is in their blood or not and weed out the dilatantes. What is that? Six years? Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] [iXDA Discuss] on masters programs ..
mat wrote: I was wondering which schools - in US and abroad - have good IxD programs, in your opinion and exeperiences. Hi mat, A while back, an IxDA member named pauric collected a list of schools from the list with courses related to interaction design and mapped them out. Here's the link: http://platial.com/ixdamaps/map/56336 // jeff . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=30525 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] IxDA Curriculum (Was: Importance of Masters Degree for IxD Professionals)
I absolutely agree with Mark. To do any less would be teaching interface design with a trade school mentality. You could do it, but for _interaction design_ survey courses in history, literature, art, philosophy, political science, anthropology, sociology, psychology and ethics should be considered vital. Plus it doesn't hurt to have a passing acquaintance with science, math and engineering. Wow, this is starting to seem like a really hard sell to undecided college freshmen... // jeff Mark wrote: Skip the classics of literature? Pass on in-depth wold history, logic or philosophies? One of the keys to being a successful interaction designer is being a more than competent human . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=30515 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] slight out of topic .. which best ixda MFA programs?
What are the criteria that would be a program good -- famous designers on faculty, ratings of the curriculum, the salaries of graduates, the number of articles generated by graduates, the success of students from one school versus the sucess of those from other schools? I can envision goodness being related to the capability of the faculty and the breadth of courses and actual design experience. Chauncey On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 8:20 PM, mat_kinotek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sorry guys.. from the interesting discussion regarding an master degree.. I was wandering .. in your opinion and experiences, which are good master programs out there ? I dont want to look for the perfection, which is impossible in the case, and dont want to open a pandora's box .. i was just wondering which are your impressions from the field .. m Il giorno 21/giu/08, alle ore 02:11, j. eric townsend ha scritto: Uday Gajendar wrote: Speaking as a Master's degree holder, i'm biased but I'd say the advantages are primarily: That pretty much lines up with my desire to go back to grad school, especially #3. I've got a ton of industry experience in related disciplines, but taking a year or two off of everything to focus on design thinking 24/7 at a name school would make a huge difference in my way of thinking and my way of working. It's one thing to read _Designing Interactions_ or _Design for the Real World_ over the course of a few evenings at home after work; another entirely to read those as part of a structured learning event and then debate/discuss it with my peers over the course of a week (or four). -- jet / KG6ZVQ http://www.flatline.net pgp: 0xD0D8C2E8 AC9B 0A23 C61A 1B4A 27C5 F799 A681 3C11 D0D8 C2E8 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\___ kinotek live media vjing http://kinotek.org - [EMAIL PROTECTED] cell. 00393332152448 skype. mat_kinotek ___/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] slight out of topic .. which best ixda MFA programs?
On Jun 22, 2008, at 3:50 PM, Chauncey Wilson wrote: What are the criteria that would be a program good -- I don't think this would be a hard list to put together. Off the top of my head: Quality of Faculty Quality, Breadth, and Depth of Curriculum Strength of Alumni Network Reputation in Professional Community Facilities Dan Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] IxDA Curriculum (Was: Importance of Masters Degree for IxD Professionals)
While reading this thread, I couldn't help but notice a pervasive assumption: The ideal educational background for an interaction designer is a single degree (whether graduate or undergraduate) that touches upon every aspect of the profession and related fields. Is that a realistic premise? I doubt it. It ignores the reality of a fast evolving field in which the best work is done by teams of T-shaped specialists, in a world where information acquired in a traditional university setting has an ever shorter half-life. And of course it would be a hard sell to undecided college freshmen. Imagine being asked at 18 years of age to invest 6 years of your life to stake out your career in a field that's (for all practical purposes) less than 10 years old. Sounds like a risky proposition, no? Dmitry On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Jeff Howard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow, this is starting to seem like a really hard sell to undecided college freshmen... // jeff Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] IxDA Curriculum (Was: Importance of Masters Degree for IxD Professionals)
dmitry, a common degree in the US is the 6yr. med program. Many students enter undergrad knowing they want to be doctors. Why not IxD's? If I can get an MD in 6 yrs (including summers I think), why not a Masters of IxD in 5 years including some intensive work (or required internships) during summers? BTW, Jeff tells a great story and articulated beautifully the reasons for foundations in ID and Visual Design. BTW, one reason design school programs excite me so much that people hadn't mentioned in the other thread that I thought about b/c of this thread is the connection to all of the expressionist design programs in the same school: illustration, fashion, interior, floral, event, etc.ID, Architecture and IxD have the commonality of having really conservative clients as a rule. BTW, another type of course that no one has mentioned that I've seen at ID schools are corp projects. You've got 10 weeks to do a corporate sponsored project. Yea you can fail, unlike a real job, but when done right students really can learn a lot about the real world and what clients expects. I have so much to add in this thread about curricullum but I'll just say that no one mentioned two anthro courses (intro to socio-cultural) and ethnography for anthro design. I do think that a degree in ID (like in Syracuse) or IxD should be a minimum of a 5 yr program. Basically the coursework is the equiv of a double major. As for a masters it should be treated similarly to a masters of ID where if you weren't a bachelor w/ that degree you need to go 3 years so that you can do foundations, otherwise 2. Anyone who did not go through foundations for ID or IxD shouldn't really have a masters degree, b/c they probably didn't actually achieve a masters of craft and design thinking that that year of foundations puts you through. -- dave . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=30515 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] IxDA Curriculum (Was: Importance of Masters Degree for IxD Professionals)
Oh, another point to share. ... In talking to an educator recently, they confessed that with all the new stuff out there they have no idea how to teach anyone all they need to know in any reasonable time frame at all. -- dave . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=30515 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] [iXDA Discuss] on masters programs ..
A less impartial answer here: Carnegie Mellon Kansas Univ Both of these have IxD masters programs right now. Univ. of Maryland has a masters of Information Systems and IxD. Bentley is Information and Human FActors IIT has a masters in Product Design There are many many HCI courses throughout the country. In Europe IxD is easier to come by with great programs throughout the continent. Here are a few: Sweden: Malmo Umea Holland: Einhoven, Utrecht Delft UK: RCA Italy: Domus Academy Denmark: Copenhagen Inst of Interaction Design Germany: Pottsdam If English is a concern: I know that Umea teaches in English and that Domus and Delft have English considerations of some kind. I haven't looked into the others. Asia: I only know of the program at Hong Kong Polytechnic Univ's Design School. I don't know of any in Australia, but there are programs with IxD as a component. -- dave . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=30525 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] slight out of topic .. which best ixda MFA programs?
Jeff, UW has an MFA in IxD? Really? It's never crossed my path. Only the MLIS/MIS stuff have previously but only for IA types. Interesting. -- dave . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=30524 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] slight out of topic .. which best ixda MFA programs?
The great thing about an MFA is that it is still considered a terminal degree in design. Meaning, that is is the most you can get in design. Yes, I know there are few PhD's, but they are far from the norm at this point in time. The upshot here is that you can, if on faculty, be considered for a full professorship and tenure, if that is an option that speaks to you. I seriously considered that route, but I kind of knew that two masters in three years was my limit... and wanted to get back to full time work (thought I loved the learning and open ended nature of academia). Mark On Jun 22, 2008, at 2:02 PM, Jeff Howard wrote: Hi Mat, The only MFA in Interaction Design I know of is at the University of Washington. Carnegie Mellon has a Masters in Interaction Design but it's not an MFA, it's an M.Des. // jeff . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=30524 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] IxDA Curriculum (Was: Importance of Masters Degree for IxD Professionals)
There are also quite a lot of 5-year Architecture programs. Generally, with these, and somee 4-year programs, you have to complete one year of school outside the program, gen eds, overview courses, and then apply your sophomore year for admission into the program. Those without the grades from the first year are not admitted, so that also sort of screens out people shopping for majors. They have the 1st year overview courses to sample, while the faculty can concentrate on the students who have shown they are committed to the program. For instance, the University of Arkansas Architecture program is a very intense studio experience, where all admitted students get drafting desks and cubes of sorts to build their models etc in one big common area. They put in long hours and work very very hard those 4 years they are in the program, basically living in those cubes, with a tight community of students as well, crits, the works. The program has a really excellent reputation. Chris On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 7:40 PM, dave malouf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: dmitry, a common degree in the US is the 6yr. med program. Many students enter undergrad knowing they want to be doctors. Why not IxD's? If I can get an MD in 6 yrs (including summers I think), why not a Masters of IxD in 5 years including some intensive work (or required internships) during summers? BTW, Jeff tells a great story and articulated beautifully the reasons for foundations in ID and Visual Design. BTW, one reason design school programs excite me so much that people hadn't mentioned in the other thread that I thought about b/c of this thread is the connection to all of the expressionist design programs in the same school: illustration, fashion, interior, floral, event, etc.ID, Architecture and IxD have the commonality of having really conservative clients as a rule. BTW, another type of course that no one has mentioned that I've seen at ID schools are corp projects. You've got 10 weeks to do a corporate sponsored project. Yea you can fail, unlike a real job, but when done right students really can learn a lot about the real world and what clients expects. I have so much to add in this thread about curricullum but I'll just say that no one mentioned two anthro courses (intro to socio-cultural) and ethnography for anthro design. I do think that a degree in ID (like in Syracuse) or IxD should be a minimum of a 5 yr program. Basically the coursework is the equiv of a double major. As for a masters it should be treated similarly to a masters of ID where if you weren't a bachelor w/ that degree you need to go 3 years so that you can do foundations, otherwise 2. Anyone who did not go through foundations for ID or IxD shouldn't really have a masters degree, b/c they probably didn't actually achieve a masters of craft and design thinking that that year of foundations puts you through. -- dave . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=30515 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] slight out of topic .. which best ixda MFA programs?
Generally, while MFAs can be considered for full professorship and tenure, it is not commonly awarded without a clear national reputation on par with public gallery exhibitions, BIG awards or grants (think MacArthur genius fellows), or, in the case of writing MFAs and others related to that, one or more well-received books. It's a tough case to make in most departments. The professionally-focused journalism and radio-TV programs have an agreement with most university administrators to give tenure to people with just master's degrees, but generally, that is for people who have been quite high up at well-respected places (editor level, like at Wall St Journal, or major metro dailies one step under that). On the other hand, there is a list of journalism programs who had that kind of agreement with the university administration, only to have that pulled out from under them a few years later with a president/chancellor change, as some new ambitious administrator comes in and demands that all departments start counting PhDs and nothing but. I know lots of people who have been blindsided by this happening. Chris On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 8:06 PM, mark schraad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The great thing about an MFA is that it is still considered a terminal degree in design. Meaning, that is is the most you can get in design. Yes, I know there are few PhD's, but they are far from the norm at this point in time. The upshot here is that you can, if on faculty, be considered for a full professorship and tenure, if that is an option that speaks to you. I seriously considered that route, but I kind of knew that two masters in three years was my limit... and wanted to get back to full time work (thought I loved the learning and open ended nature of academia). Mark On Jun 22, 2008, at 2:02 PM, Jeff Howard wrote: Hi Mat, The only MFA in Interaction Design I know of is at the University of Washington. Carnegie Mellon has a Masters in Interaction Design but it's not an MFA, it's an M.Des. // jeff . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=30524 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] slight out of topic .. which best ixda MFA programs?
Great clarification Chris. I guess the larger point was that without an MFA... an MA doesn't put you in that position. And the trend towards the PhD is growing. Most people I know have gone the route of design history or design education. Mark On Jun 22, 2008, at 8:23 PM, Christine Boese wrote: Generally, while MFAs can be considered for full professorship and tenure, it is not commonly awarded without a clear national reputation on par with public gallery exhibitions, BIG awards or grants (think MacArthur genius fellows), or, in the case of writing MFAs and others related to that, one or more well-received books. It's a tough case to make in most departments. The professionally- focused journalism and radio-TV programs have an agreement with most university administrators to give tenure to people with just master's degrees, but generally, that is for people who have been quite high up at well-respected places (editor level, like at Wall St Journal, or major metro dailies one step under that). On the other hand, there is a list of journalism programs who had that kind of agreement with the university administration, only to have that pulled out from under them a few years later with a president/chancellor change, as some new ambitious administrator comes in and demands that all departments start counting PhDs and nothing but. I know lots of people who have been blindsided by this happening. Chris On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 8:06 PM, mark schraad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The great thing about an MFA is that it is still considered a terminal degree in design. Meaning, that is is the most you can get in design. Yes, I know there are few PhD's, but they are far from the norm at this point in time. The upshot here is that you can, if on faculty, be considered for a full professorship and tenure, if that is an option that speaks to you. I seriously considered that route, but I kind of knew that two masters in three years was my limit... and wanted to get back to full time work (thought I loved the learning and open ended nature of academia). Mark On Jun 22, 2008, at 2:02 PM, Jeff Howard wrote: Hi Mat, The only MFA in Interaction Design I know of is at the University of Washington. Carnegie Mellon has a Masters in Interaction Design but it's not an MFA, it's an M.Des. // jeff . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=30524 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] [iXDA Discuss] on masters programs ..
Also add: University of Baltimore: Interaction Design Information Architecture University of Maryland Baltimore County: Human-Centered Computing snip Univ. of Maryland has a masters of Information Systems and IxD. Interaction design? Not the last time I checked. They are only recently embracing more design in to their curriculum via special-topics courses. Even their HCIL is CS-centric with little focus on design. It is, however, a pretty good program for someone who wants to focus more on Information Architecture. -- Celeste 'seele' Paul www.obso1337.org Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] IxDA Curriculum (Was: Importance of Masters Degree for IxD Professionals)
Dimitry wrote: Is that a realistic premise? I doubt it. It ignores the reality of a fast evolving field in which the best work is done by teams of T-shaped specialists You can also look at T-shaped people as generalists. I think the curriculum we're talking about would result in T-shaped people. Students would specialize in interface design but be familiar with other design disciplines and be able to relate to people from majors like anthropology or psychology or computer science or engineering or technical writing... But to do that you need time. The fundamental problem with educating a generalist is that there's too much general information in the world that's tangentally important to cover in eight semesters. So what are some options? 1). More specialization. Cover fewer general subjects. 2). Extend the number of years to obtain a degree. 3). Subdivide the term duration to fit more classes into the year. 4). Start earlier. High school outreach and summer programs. Christine's architecture example (and to some extent, Dimitry's last paragraph) illustrates how important high school outreach could be. It's not uncommon for design programs to have prerequisite classes the very first semester, and if you don't know to take them upon enrolling as a freshman you can't apply for admission into the School of Design as a sophomore. At my alma mater anyone who came to design even one semester late couldn't finish the degree in four years even though it was only a four year degree. There were lots of design seniors in their mid-twenties. Evangelizing to high-school students early on could help build the awareness necessary to hit the ground running once they get to college. // jeff . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=30515 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] slight out of topic .. which best ixda MFA programs?
On Jun 22, 2008, at 5:06 PM, mark schraad wrote: The great thing about an MFA is that it is still considered a terminal degree in design. Meaning, that is is the most you can get in design. Yes, I know there are few PhD's, but they are far from the norm at this point in time. The upshot here is that you can, if on faculty, be considered for a full professorship and tenure, if that is an option that speaks to you. The Master of Design (M.Des.) degree that is given out by both CMU and ID are also considered terminal degrees. Just FYI. Dan Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] IxDA Curriculum (Was: Importance of Masters Degree for IxD Professionals)
Dave, you're absolutely correct regarding the 6 year med school programs (as well as e.g. combined bachelors/MBA programs). Same for the architecture programs as mentioned by Christine. A motivated high school senior will have no problem making that commitment. The difference is the perceived value of of the hypothetical IxD degree. For the purpose of the comparison, it's useful to put yourself in the shoes of the target audience - obviously, to an enthusiastic and successful IxD practitioner, the value is quite clear. In the eyes of a high school senior, the 6 year med school program or the 5 year architecture program would lead them to a career in a field that is prestigious, well-publicized, and well-compensated. The student's parents and other adult figures, who may well be involved in the decision making process, may also note that these fields are regulated (hence fewer worries about outsourcing) and the demand is not cyclical (hence fewer worries about a dot-com crash repeat). IxD, by contrast, is not generally known to be any of the above - or, to be more precise, is just not generally known about, period. So I agree with Jeff's point about the importance of high school outreach, and would extend it to outreach to society in general. Only with a greater level of public awareness about our profession do I see 4+ year IxD programs becoming viable. Dmitry On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 7:40 PM, dave malouf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: dmitry, a common degree in the US is the 6yr. med program. Many students enter undergrad knowing they want to be doctors. Why not IxD's? If I can get an MD in 6 yrs (including summers I think), why not a Masters of IxD in 5 years including some intensive work (or required internships) during summers? Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] slight out of topic .. which best ixda MFA programs?
Dave wrote: Jeff, UW has an MFA in IxD? Really? I haven't really looked into the program, but I used to work with someone who is finishing his MFA in Interaction Design there. http://depts.washington.edu/designuw/IxD_mfa_curriculum.htm The Division of Design offers graduate programs in Visual Communication Design and Industrial Design. Both MFA tracks can entail a concentration in Interaction Design, where classes and individual studies of interaction design problems complement graduate core seminars and studios. // jeff . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=30524 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] IxDA Curriculum (Was: Importance of Masters Degree for IxD Professionals)
Ah! so we have a big marketing campaign ahead of us. Fortunately, Fast Company already started this out for us calling IxD one of the top 10 jobs you didn't know you wanted to have. ;-) I've been thinking about this from a different tact. Maybe major doesn't make sense for IxD at the undergrad level. The reason I'm swaying this direction for the point of argumentation here is that I do believe that the medium agnostic philosophy of IxD makes it very difficult to market to the younger crowd. The thing is well the thing, so having concentrations in IxD for interactive, for software product, for industrial design, for architecture (etc.) might be a better tact and then for the really invested the masters degree might work, no? I think that this might speak to Andrei a bit more than some of the others who have been discussing this sort of thing so far on the list. -- dave On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 9:18 PM, Dmitry Nekrasovski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave, you're absolutely correct regarding the 6 year med school programs (as well as e.g. combined bachelors/MBA programs). Same for the architecture programs as mentioned by Christine. A motivated high school senior will have no problem making that commitment. The difference is the perceived value of of the hypothetical IxD degree. For the purpose of the comparison, it's useful to put yourself in the shoes of the target audience - obviously, to an enthusiastic and successful IxD practitioner, the value is quite clear. In the eyes of a high school senior, the 6 year med school program or the 5 year architecture program would lead them to a career in a field that is prestigious, well-publicized, and well-compensated. The student's parents and other adult figures, who may well be involved in the decision making process, may also note that these fields are regulated (hence fewer worries about outsourcing) and the demand is not cyclical (hence fewer worries about a dot-com crash repeat). IxD, by contrast, is not generally known to be any of the above - or, to be more precise, is just not generally known about, period. So I agree with Jeff's point about the importance of high school outreach, and would extend it to outreach to society in general. Only with a greater level of public awareness about our profession do I see 4+ year IxD programs becoming viable. Dmitry On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 7:40 PM, dave malouf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: dmitry, a common degree in the US is the 6yr. med program. Many students enter undergrad knowing they want to be doctors. Why not IxD's? If I can get an MD in 6 yrs (including summers I think), why not a Masters of IxD in 5 years including some intensive work (or required internships) during summers? -- David Malouf http://synapticburn.com/ http://ixda.org/ http://motorola.com/ Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] slight out of topic .. which best ixda MFA programs?
Thanx for the extra info. It looks like it is an ID (or Visual Design Masters) with a concentration in IxD, but not an IxD program per se like CMU or KU. (might speak to my other point about design degrees may need to be about the thing). -- dave . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=30524 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] IxDA Curriculum (Was: Importance of Masters Degree for IxD Professionals)
5 year BFA programs are not uncommon. My BFA was a 5yr program, but it took me 6 yrs because it was a California State University. CSU's never have enough general ed classes available, so it took that long just to get IN to some classes. But the benefit was I had 6 full years of art, design and theory courses as well as 6 years of gallery exhibitions. You can't beat time for building your craft. Dan's list is a good one, but I agree adding in some anthro and perhaps cog sci would be nice too. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=30515 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] slight out of topic .. which best ixda MFA programs?
One reason the trend toward PhD is growing has more to do with the level of preparation and lack of maturity students have across the board, coming in from high school at the undergrad level. This only applies in the US, as European and other international education standards are higher. I don't mean to make anyone defensive, as it isn't personal, but anybody who has taught college for 15+ years will tell you the same thing. It is due to an overall decline in literacy levels, an inability to really READ and comprehend, and think critically. So many undergrads are coming to college these days with a sense of entitlement, like they're going to get the grades for showing up and filling the chair. Grade inflation is WAY up, and most of y'all have probably encountered these issues with the level of responsibility you can give summer interns. It takes 'em a couple of years to buckle in, learn to work, and focus, and that's time most degree programs need, just to get students up to the level they have to be at to enter the work force, entry level. Companies are even beefing up their in-house training programs specifically to address this weakness in entry level skill sets. Means more work for us, tho, cuz they need training software interaction design. I personally chalk it up to the dominant socialization of high school cultures, although short attention span media and multi-tasking attitudes don't help students master difficult material and skills very well in undergraduate majors either. I actually think it is equal parts a deficit in literacy and maturity. So many kids (I of course am exempting hard working adult learners, who often suffer in classes with these folks, and frequently lose their cool if they have to be in collaborative project groups with them, when they can't count on group members to complete even the most ridiculously easy tasks) come to college as precious darlings of over-protective helicopter parents, who swoop in to protest every grade given below a B. That's why grade inflation is up so badly, btw. Untenured faculty just can't fight that kind of pressure. Adminstrators call students customers, and the helicopter parents take that literally, demand whatever they want, and get it. So that brings us down to the masters degree becoming the equivalent of what the undergrad degree used to be. However, many schools are having trouble with admissions standards in their masters programs as well (perhaps less so now, with a recession), and sometimes they lower their standards dangerously too, just to keep their numbers up I've seen some weak grad classes at times as well. Across the board, tho, I usually felt sorriest for the returning adult students who needed the credential, which is held up so high over their heads, because they chose to have kids, or go straight to work, or are changing careers, or it is costing them a promotion, or ding-a-ling college grads keep getting hired above them at their current jobs (and they have to train them--this has happened to my brother so many times it isn't funny). It's so tough to stomach, to finally jump in and taken on that degree barrier head on, and get in your classes, and have to sit there with 18-year-olds who think they are still in high school. The worst thing is watching the faces of the adult learners, when they expect to be challenged by the material in the course, as it dawns on them how bone-headedly easy instructors have to make everything, have to spell out every instruction, because if they didn't, the 18-year-olds would just be lost and floundering, and then the helicopter parents would come swooping in. I've been in that position before, and after class, apologized to the adult students, for seemingly insulting their intelligence. It was embarrassing for all of us. Chris On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 8:28 PM, mark schraad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great clarification Chris. I guess the larger point was that without an MFA... an MA doesn't put you in that position. And the trend towards the PhD is growing. Most people I know have gone the route of design history or design education. Mark On Jun 22, 2008, at 8:23 PM, Christine Boese wrote: Generally, while MFAs can be considered for full professorship and tenure, it is not commonly awarded without a clear national reputation on par with public gallery exhibitions, BIG awards or grants (think MacArthur genius fellows), or, in the case of writing MFAs and others related to that, one or more well-received books. It's a tough case to make in most departments. The professionally-focused journalism and radio-TV programs have an agreement with most university administrators to give tenure to people with just master's degrees, but generally, that is for people who have been quite high up at well-respected places (editor level, like at Wall St Journal, or major metro dailies one step under that). On the other hand, there is a list of journalism programs who had that kind
Re: [IxDA Discuss] IxDA Curriculum (Was: Importance of Masters Degree for IxD Professionals)
Dave wrote: the medium agnostic philosophy of IxD makes it very difficult to market to the younger crowd. The thing is well the thing, so having concentrations in IxD for interactive, for software product, for industrial design, for architecture (etc.) might be a better tact That's why I think interface design is an easier sell than interaction design at the undergraduate level. For better or worse, undergraduate design education is centered around the act of making as a catalyst for learning about design. Those are critical skills, but making artifacts isn't the whole story when it comes to interaction design. I remember a few snippits of conversations while I was at Carnegie Mellon about why there wasn't a bachelors degree in interaction design. Some of it might be a question of maturity (both the discipline and the students). If you could build such a program, would it be a good thing to have 21 year old interaction designers running around? I worked with a few seniors at CMU who would have made great interaction designers, but I think they're the exception. // jeff . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=30515 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] IxDA Curriculum (Was: Importance of Masters Degree for IxD Professionals)
Dan, I think it's important to distinguish between a generation practitioners from other fields who, through experience, are capable of doing *some*(niche - broader or narrower) IxD work really well; and preparing a generation of graduates with the grounding they need to approach *any* IxD task with some reasonable chance of success. Your course outline seems to me to provide for the latter pretty well, whilst allowing for the former if someone sees their niche and quits after 2 or 3 years to pursue it. Steve 2008/6/23 Dan Saffer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I did include a basic Cog Psych class in there (Year 2). And Research (Year 3). But honestly, I think we're smoking our own crack if we think it's necessary for us to need a 5 or 6 year undergraduate degree. I hate to break this to everyone, but what we do Isn't. That. Hard. Sure, there are a lot of facets to it, but many of us on the list seem to be able to do what we do without many years of intense preparation. I think we need to expect that a lot of learning and growing is going to happen on the job. And this is probably how it should be. Increasing the barrier to entry for new practitioners is not something we should strive to do. Dan -- -- Steve 'Doc' Baty B.Sc (Maths), M.EC, MBA Principal Consultant Meld Consulting M: +61 417 061 292 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
