Re: [IxDA Discuss] Pattern Tap : Interface Design Inspiration

2008-07-29 Thread matthew Smith
@Christian and @Jeremy
These ideas are really interesting to me.
One of the things we are considering trying to accomplish with the
next round of changes to Pattern Tap is a bit of user interaction
with the sorting and organizing of the design examples. This
would include adding or commenting on tags (from the available list
of tags, or suggesting a tag), adding or commenting on the collection
a design belongs to.

Perhaps an additional resource here, could be an information list of
links to resources concerning the pattern that informed that
particular design.

@Jared
Your comment has me VERY interested in addressing and analyzing whole
sites from a design/pattern perspective. I've found that Michael over
at Konigi has been doing a good job of this, but I wonder if there is
room for even more thorough investigation/documentation into that.

Have you had any experience with developing something of this sort?
In the case of flickr, what's the goal? To show the pattern of a
carousel and then see how flickr implemented it in line with their
brand and web layout?

My question here, is how you provide a resource that has a good
stratus of accessibility/readability. Like a good Bob Dylan song it
needs to be accessible on multiple levels in order to be
useful/educational to a larger audience.

In my opinion, this is one of the issues that is a separator between
the science UX and the implementation of design. Often I've found
the heavy UX articles to be beyond the scope of the projects I've
engaged in. Reading a 3000 word essay on Search Results for instance
is compelling, but I might get the same end result by emulating
what a great design team like Apple has done. In a visual way, I can
see how to produce a great list of results with options for my users.
The problem is I don't know WHY its good if I don't read. Perhaps
this is a great need for both?


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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Pattern Tap : Interface Design Inspiration

2008-07-28 Thread Christian Crumlish
On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 8:23 PM, Jeremy Yuille [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:


 2.
 a second approach i see could be for you to tie Pattern Tap into
 existing design pattern collections, by adding value from the design
 implementation  inspiration side.



+1

This is the direction my thoughts have been going. We've got a bunch of
pattern collections where we say to ourselves it would be great to have way
more visual examples to illustrate the variations and possibilities with
this pattern and we're starting to have these great pattern-gallery-visual
collections that are prompting grumps like me to say but it's not *really*
a design pattern unless it has x, y, z...

I think these are two great tastes that will taste good together. People
like me who curate pattern libraries can link across to sites like Pattern
Tap and factoryjoe's pattern collections on Flickr to point to examples of
the patterns we are describing. Likewise, PatternTap and other sites can
feel free to link to written descriptions of the patterns they are
depicting, where available.

Not that I would discourage you, Matthew, from adding
problem/context/solution/rationale type elements to your visual example
collections, but I also don't think you have to do that to gain some of the
value that would be accomplished via cross-linking.



 eg: Pattern Tap might help fill out the 'examples' that other pattern
 collections use, and also extend these examples from merely
 illustrating the IxD pattern to describing different types of
 successful implementations from a visual and IxD aesthetics
 perspective.

 
  Lastly, is there any way that the framework of this site could be
  used for a more traditional Pattern Library? If so, I'd love
  to entertain that idea with some help from some of you smart types :),
  if you're interested!


Absolutely I think this could be so, and I think you are demonstrating some
great social and community features that most living pattern libraries would
probably kill for.

 -xian-

-- 
Christian Crumlish http://xianlandia.com
Yahoo! pattern detective http://design.yahoo.com
Yahoo! Developer Network evangelist http://open.yahoo.com
IA Institute director of technology http://iainstitute.org

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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Pattern Tap : Interface Design Inspiration

2008-07-28 Thread Kim Bieler

A few web design collections:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/splat/sets/981332/
http://bestwebgallery.com/
http://www.templatemonster.com/
http://www.designmeltdown.com/


On Jul 23, 2008, at 6:00 PM, Jeremy Yuille wrote:

btw - does anyone else here have any design driven sources that I  
could

share with my students?




-- Kim

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
   Kim Bieler Graphic Design
   www.kbgd.com
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +





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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Pattern Tap : Interface Design Inspiration

2008-07-28 Thread Jared Spool


On Jul 25, 2008, at 6:20 AM, matthew Smith wrote:


How would you best describe what Pattern Tap showcases? What language
would you change or redefine? I'd be interested to see how we can
gaurd those terms well, and honor the work of folks like yourself,
while hopefully at the same time, offering a bit of expansion to
terms like pattern.


A collection of designs for inspiration.

It's my opinion that general pattern libraries are of limited value.

What teams really need are libraries of patterns that have been proven  
for their users in their specific design contexts. These will include  
localized thinking, including brand-related issues and details about  
the things that make their own experience unique, such as voice, tone,  
and feel.


For example, the patterns for KodakGallery.com would be very different  
from the patterns for Flickr.com, even though they'll have a lot of  
the same types of elements, because they are trying for very different  
experiences.


I think both teams could turn to a site like PatternTap for  
inspiration (which I think is your goal), but would create a library  
of patterns that was unique to their own needs and offerings.


That's my take.

Jared

Jared M. Spool
User Interface Engineering
510 Turnpike St., Suite 102, North Andover, MA 01845
e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] p: +1 978 327 5561
http://uie.com  Blog: http://uie.com/brainsparks


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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Pattern Tap : Interface Design Inspiration

2008-07-27 Thread Matthew Smith
@J.Ambrose
Can you point me to Jared's template? A quick googling produced a
few results without a template (that I could see)

I really can understand where you all are coming from. I feel a bit
defensive as a visual designer, but that may be my lack of education
in the UX Engineering field, or even the science end of interaction
design.

I think my defensiveness comes from a sense that while its good to
have a common language for things, its also restrictive and may give
an idea like patterns a kind of mortality, rather than letting it
grow into broader meanings?

I don't feel like examples is an appropriate way of explaning
what Pattern Tap is (or could be as it grows). Its definitely more
than a well organized gallery, and yet its not an educational outpost
like ixda or some of the great Pattern Libraries out there. The
reason I created Pattern Tap was because I felt that all of the
Pattern Libraries lacked in any real quality of design, ability
for designers to move through examples of those patterns in
active use, and then be inspired or educated by them.

We initially were heading in a much more educational route with
examples and code to go, but it made for a more taxing app to move
through.

What are some suggestions you all might have about how I can tweak
the current language (outside of the domain name of course :), to
something more fitting? Or where would you suggest I be careful with
language I use on the site?

Lastly, is there any way that the framework of this site could be
used for a more traditional Pattern Library? If so, I'd love
to entertain that idea with some help from some of you smart types :),
if you're interested!

Thanks for the VERY engaging discussion.

Matthew


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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Pattern Tap : Interface Design Inspiration

2008-07-27 Thread J. Ambrose Little
On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 2:48 PM, Matthew Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:

 @J.Ambrose
 Can you point me to Jared's template? A quick googling produced a
 few results without a template (that I could see)


Hi Matt,

I don't want you to feel defensive, but I understand where you're coming
from.

I think Welie is a good example; Tidwell's book is also good:
http://www.welie.com/patterns/showPattern.php?patternID=collapsible-panels

Key things to include in patterns are:
* Description - Briefly say what the pattern is/does/what it solves.

* Problem - Often patterns solve particular problems/challenges in design,
and identifying the problem can help people identify the kind of issues that
the pattern addresses.

* Context - This elaborates on the problem, providing more context to
further help folks understand when the pattern is applicable and when it
isn't.

* Rationale - This dives into the why behind the pattern--why does it
work, why is it good, that sort of thing, with the goal of empowering the
individual to not only understand that particular pattern but to build a
deeper foundation that they can design from w/o the explicit application of
patterns.  (Actually, all patterns are kind of geared towards that goal, but
the rationale provides more explicit guidance than the other aspects.)

* Implementation - Describes *how* to apply the pattern.

* Examples - These are concrete examples of the pattern, and I think that's
where your site shines.  I agree about the general lack of good visual
design in most examples I've seen of UI patterns.

* Name - This serves the same purpose as names in general; to provide a
common reference point (symbol) to facilitate discussion.

Hope this helps clarify why I, at least, am concerned.

As for the speculation that this more constrained understanding of the term
pattern is what causes its lack of adoption, I can see where you're coming
from.  I tend to think, though, that it's less a matter of terminology as
much as it is making patterns more usable.

Another way to think of it: If you extend the definition, are you really
encouraging more adoption or are you just changing the underlying meaning
such that it is actually adoption of this new/different thing you are
proposing and not patterns themselves?

Thank you for engaging and not just blowing us off. :)

Cordially,

Ambrose

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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Pattern Tap : Interface Design Inspiration

2008-07-27 Thread Oleh Kovalchuke
 Matthew Smith wrote:

 Can you point me to Jared's template? A quick googling produced a
 few results without a template (that I could see)



http://www.uie.com/articles/elements_of_a_design_pattern/

-- 
Oleh Kovalchuke
Interaction Design is design of time
http://www.tangospring.com/IxDtopicWhatIsInteractionDesign.htm

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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Pattern Tap : Interface Design Inspiration

2008-07-27 Thread Jeremy Yuille
@Matthew,

1.
one way I could see it going is to try define what the design you're
highlighting *is* and wrap some patterns around it.. ie: what do you
mean by 'Tasty Design'?

eg: Pattern Tap could define 'aesthetic patterns' where you describe
the problem and solutions in terms of IxD aesthetics

¿IxD Aesthetics? check out Jonas Lowgren's Five things I believe
about the aesthetics of Interaction Design
http://webzone.k3.mah.se/k3jolo/Material/aesthetics_of_ixd.pdf

2.
a second approach i see could be for you to tie Pattern Tap into
existing design pattern collections, by adding value from the design
implementation  inspiration side.

eg: Pattern Tap might help fill out the 'examples' that other pattern
collections use, and also extend these examples from merely
illustrating the IxD pattern to describing different types of
successful implementations from a visual and IxD aesthetics
perspective.

approach #1 is more work than #2 (and more academic.. but hey.. guess
what I do for a living ;-) and could possibly grow out of doing #2
first anyway.. (particularly if you crowdsource it)

re using the P word... as you get closer to your intended design the
distinction between your examples and traditional patterns will
diminish. the work is really in how you describe and present the
examples, and how they tie into a larger idea of strategies.

hope that helps../
cheers
jy


On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 4:48 AM, Matthew Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 What are some suggestions you all might have about how I can tweak
 the current language (outside of the domain name of course :), to
 something more fitting? Or where would you suggest I be careful with
 language I use on the site?

 Lastly, is there any way that the framework of this site could be
 used for a more traditional Pattern Library? If so, I'd love
 to entertain that idea with some help from some of you smart types :),
 if you're interested!


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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Pattern Tap : Interface Design Inspiration

2008-07-25 Thread matthew Smith
@Jared
How would you best describe what Pattern Tap showcases? What language
would you change or redefine? I'd be interested to see how we can
gaurd those terms well, and honor the work of folks like yourself,
while hopefully at the same time, offering a bit of expansion to
terms like pattern.


. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Pattern Tap : Interface Design Inspiration

2008-07-25 Thread matthew Smith
@Jared
How would you best describe what Pattern Tap showcases? What language
would you change or redefine? I'd be interested to see how we can
gaurd those terms well, and honor the work of folks like yourself,
while hopefully at the same time, offering a bit of expansion to
terms like pattern.


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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Pattern Tap : Interface Design Inspiration

2008-07-25 Thread Will Evans
Someone asked me in a meeting last week if I had started to see Twitter
conventions seeping into online discussion boards and email lists. MS's use
of @Jared is the first time I have seen it on the list - although it's not
his correct twitter name.

:-)

Interest -- Might start another thread - Twitter conventions becoming
commonplace in other online mediums - examples?

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 9:10 AM, matthew Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 @Jared
 How would you best describe what Pattern Tap showcases? What language
 would you change or redefine? I'd be interested to see how we can
 gaurd those terms well, and honor the work of folks like yourself,
 while hopefully at the same time, offering a bit of expansion to
 terms like pattern.


 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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 http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=31495


 
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-- 
~ will

Where you innovate, how you innovate,
and what you innovate are design problems

-
Will Evans | User Experience Architect
tel +1.617.281.1281 | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
twitter: https://twitter.com/semanticwill
-

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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Pattern Tap : Interface Design Inspiration

2008-07-25 Thread J. Ambrose Little
On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 9:10 AM, matthew Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 @Jared
 How would you best describe what Pattern Tap showcases? What language
 would you change or redefine? I'd be interested to see how we can
 gaurd those terms well, and honor the work of folks like yourself,
 while hopefully at the same time, offering a bit of expansion to
 terms like pattern.


 Hi Matt,

I'm not Jared, but I've been watching this thread with interest.  I
appreciate what you've done and want to do in terms of helping provide
sources of inspiration, but I share others' concern about the extension of
the 'pattern' term.  I think there is already too much confusion around it
and think it'd be better not to extend it to mean 'example', which is what I
take away from patterntap.
I think what Alexander was trying to get at in his books on patterns is more
than this and has a lot to offer the interaction design community that we
shouldn't overlook or water down.

Again, I think what you're doing is definitely valuable and appreciated; the
concern's just about the terminology.

--Ambrose

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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Pattern Tap : Interface Design Inspiration

2008-07-25 Thread Oleh Kovalchuke
On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 5:00 PM, Jeremy Yuille [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 re 'patterns': I think something like Pattern Tap compliments other
 resources like http://welie.com or http://ui-patterns.com/ for the reason
 that it approaches selection from a different angle: 'Tasty Design' ;-)


I think you are right, Jeremy.

In our approach to building a corporate pattern library, we plan to provide
generic pattern description with snippets of code in a wiki, and link the
description to the visual live examples of various implementations of the
patterns (this visual index is somewhat similar to the PaternTap). The live
examples would link back to the detailed pattern descriptions. This looks
like a good idea so far, since different examples could utilize several
patterns and the other way around.

By the way, thanks to Jared Spool for putting together generic pattern
description template. Instead of re-inventing the wheel, we simply use the
one he has compiled.

-- 
Oleh Kovalchuke
Interaction Design is design of time
http://www.tangospring.com/IxDtopicWhatIsInteractionDesign.htm

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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Pattern Tap : Interface Design Inspiration

2008-07-24 Thread Valeska OLeary


 This is a wonderful resource!
I will put my pattern-geek hat on for a moment, though, to say that I'm not
entirely comfortable with the way the term pattern is sometimes used to mean
gallery of examples. Don't get me wrong, I love galleries of examples.
They are awesome.
-xian-


I agree with you, xian. I came across PatternTap today and twittered about it 
like this: ValeskaUXBoston ... found a collection of interesting interface 
elements screenshots ~ http://patterntap.com I didn't perceive it as a pattern 
library per se.

~valeska o'leary



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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Pattern Tap : Interface Design Inspiration

2008-07-24 Thread matthew Smith
@Christian 
Interesting issue about semantics. I chose patterntap partly because
of availability of domain names, and its snappy sound. I can see your
point though. This isn't really a resource for UI engineers and
critical thinkers as much as it is for designers. We took away a lot
of the initial Wiki like interaction for detailing the focus of a
given pattern in favor of a designer buffet approach. The former is
still needed, though perhaps its a second iteration of the site?
(your second comment is right on - useful and great, though semantics
is important and should be addressed)

@Dave
We are looking/have looked at some ways of adding Suggest a tag
suggest an additional collection (for individual images and for
the tap on the whole). We didn't want to implement things that might
not be useful. Trying to take a small step approach here. Good
thoughts though. Send me your ideas in an email if you're willing,
or better yet, we have a page set up at
http://getsatisfaction.com/patterntap/ (we were using User Voice
but its not nearly as complete as the Get Satisfaction stuff

Thanks for all the encouragement!!




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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Pattern Tap : Interface Design Inspiration

2008-07-24 Thread Boon
Nice.

Could be useful alongside books like Tidwell's designing
interfaces from O'Reilly.


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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Pattern Tap : Interface Design Inspiration

2008-07-24 Thread Ivan Bachev
It is really a great resource Matthew, thank you!

I am also sharing a video collection of Interface Design patterns -
http://www.vimeo.com/album/17554

Good to check and see patterns in action.

Regards,
Ivan



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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Pattern Tap : Interface Design Inspiration

2008-07-24 Thread Jared Spool


On Jul 23, 2008, at 3:27 PM, Christian Crumlish wrote:

I also accept that language drifts and even terms of art can change  
and the
success of the pattern meme is going to tend to lead to watering  
it down,
but I'm nonetheless going to try to hold the line on this  
distinction for

now, as I think it's useful.


I completely agree with this line of thinking. I think, as a  
community, it serves us well to be careful of our language.


I've been fighting a similar battle with personas versus descriptions- 
of-people-real-or-otherwise because watering the term down doesn't  
help its usefulness.


I'd like to see more efforts in the community to establish and protect  
a language we can all use to mean the same things.


Jared

Jared M. Spool
User Interface Engineering
510 Turnpike St., Suite 102, North Andover, MA 01845
e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] p: +1 978 327 5561
http://uie.com  Blog: http://uie.com/brainsparks


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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Pattern Tap : Interface Design Inspiration

2008-07-23 Thread Christian Crumlish
This is a wonderful resource!
I will put my pattern-geek hat on for a moment, though, to say that I'm not
entirely comfortable with the way the term pattern is sometimes used to mean
gallery of examples. Don't get me wrong, I love galleries of examples.
They are awesome.

Also, I think the individual clusters of images can be called patterns in
the sense that they can plausibly be said to depict examples of patterns.

What's missing, for me, is the next step of abstracting what they have in
common and capturing that in some descriptive form.

This may be a language drift thing, though, so maybe I shouting into the
wind.

-xian-



On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 7:12 PM, Matthew Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 I thought some of  you would be interested to see what we've got in the
 wild for interface design inspiration : http://patterntap.com.

-- 
Christian Crumlish http://xianlandia.com
Yahoo! pattern detective http://design.yahoo.com
Yahoo! Developer Network evangelist http://open.yahoo.com
IA Institute director of technology http://iainstitute.org

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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Pattern Tap : Interface Design Inspiration

2008-07-23 Thread dave malouf
Christian, I agree w/ the language use. You know me ... always the
guardian of semantics. ;-)

Something the site could add to it though is user input to the
different sections in terms of why? and value. I think this would
get what Christian is looking for and open it up a bit more. Is there
a way to submit your own suggestions?

-- dave


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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Pattern Tap : Interface Design Inspiration

2008-07-23 Thread Jeremy Yuille
Matthew, thanks for putting this out there, it's a really great set of
inspiration sources!

re 'patterns': I think something like Pattern Tap compliments other
resources like http://welie.com or http://ui-patterns.com/ for the reason
that it approaches selection from a different angle: 'Tasty Design' ;-)

Funnily enough, I'd had a request from a student just a week ago about
whether there were any places online that collected visual design examples
in the same way that Graphic Design source books have been doing for ages..
none came to mind straight away, so thanks Matthew!

btw - does anyone else here have any design driven sources that I could
share with my students?

Matthew - I'm interested in how you choose designs.. if you have time, it
would be awesome if you could dig a bit into 'designerly implementation and
analysis' you describe upthread and tell us what kind of criteria you're
using to select examples

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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Pattern Tap : Interface Design Inspiration

2008-07-23 Thread A S
Also Tom's site/page is a great clearinghouse:
http://www.visi.com/~snowfall/InteractionPatterns.html

:


Andrew Schechterman

UX Architect, Medical Psychologist


LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewschechterman

E-mail: aschechterman at gmail dot com

Phone: 1-303-886-2440


:


On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 4:00 PM, Jeremy Yuille [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Matthew, thanks for putting this out there, it's a really great set of
 inspiration sources!

 re 'patterns': I think something like Pattern Tap compliments other
 resources like http://welie.com or http://ui-patterns.com/ for the reason
 that it approaches selection from a different angle: 'Tasty Design' ;-)

 Funnily enough, I'd had a request from a student just a week ago about
 whether there were any places online that collected visual design examples
 in the same way that Graphic Design source books have been doing for ages..
 none came to mind straight away, so thanks Matthew!

 btw - does anyone else here have any design driven sources that I could
 share with my students?

 Matthew - I'm interested in how you choose designs.. if you have time, it
 would be awesome if you could dig a bit into 'designerly implementation and
 analysis' you describe upthread and tell us what kind of criteria you're
 using to select examples
 
 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
 To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Unsubscribe  http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Pattern Tap : Interface Design Inspiration

2008-07-23 Thread Christian Crumlish
On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 3:00 PM, Jeremy Yuille [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Matthew, thanks for putting this out there, it's a really great set of
 inspiration sources!

 re 'patterns': I think something like Pattern Tap complements other
 resources like http://welie.com or http://ui-patterns.com/ for the reason
 that it approaches selection from a different angle: 'Tasty Design' ;-)


 I totally agree with this! Please don't take my nitpicking on terminology
as a criticism of the site and concept. I love it! It's really useful. I
also accept that language drifts and even terms of art can change and the
success of the pattern meme is going to tend to lead to watering it down,
but I'm nonetheless going to try to hold the line on this distinction for
now, as I think it's useful.

People should also look at factoryjoe's pattern galleries on Flickr:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/factoryjoe/collections/7215761823120/(which
he similarly calls design patterns although I think they fall short
of that designation for the same reasons discussed above, while still
believing they are incredibly useful and great).

-x-

-- 
Christian Crumlish http://xianlandia.com
Yahoo! pattern detective http://design.yahoo.com
Yahoo! Developer Network evangelist http://open.yahoo.com
IA Institute director of technology http://iainstitute.org

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[IxDA Discuss] Pattern Tap : Interface Design Inspiration

2008-07-22 Thread Matthew Smith
I thought some of  you would be interested to see what we've got in  
the wild for interface design inspiration : http://patterntap.com.


Its a great collection of over 800 interface design patterns (and  
growing while maintaing quality). Web designers will use it for  
insight into what others are doing and can keep tabs on what they like  
by creating user sets (very similar to lightboxes)


I know that IXDA has a high standard for this sort of thing, and its  
really not geared toward the science of UX, but toward the designerly  
implementation and analysis of the designs that are on the web currently


Hope you enjoy!

Matthew Smith
Squared Eye (http://squaredeye.com)

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