Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
Weixi Yen wrote: > Alot of this argument revolves around the battle > between idealists and realists. http://tinyurl.com/2y4j2n // jeff . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=26596 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
> > How about the Save icon? It's often still a 3.25" floppy disk, which > > probably befuddles the heck out of anyone born after, say 1985. :) > > Yes!! Can we make it a 2008 goal of IxDA to create a standard save > icon that replaces the floppy before it becomes THE STANDARD by > default? Or is it too late? Hmm, don't we need to get rid of 'save' altogether? If you write on a bit of paper, the writing stays, you don't need to hit save. I want to lose the instinctive CTRL-S twitch that I have! Alex. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
One of my favorite books on this or any subject is "Man and His Symbols," by Carl Jung, dealing with universal archetypes. Abi said: "The more I try to come up with a visual model for 'save' the more I think about synapses in a brain, firing away." Or a piggy bank. Or a squirrel. Or (ducking) Jesus ... / idealistic realist and apparent blasphemer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=26596 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
On Feb 29, 2008, at 1:52 PM, Dan Saffer wrote: > How about the Save icon? It's often still a 3.25" floppy disk, which > probably befuddles the heck out of anyone born after, say 1985. :) Yes!! Can we make it a 2008 goal of IxDA to create a standard save icon that replaces the floppy before it becomes THE STANDARD by default? Or is it too late? Only half kidding, Jack Jack L. Moffett Interaction Designer inmedius 412.459.0310 x219 http://www.inmedius.com Design is a process - an intimate collaboration between engineers, designers, and clients. - Henry Dreyfuss Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
How about the Save icon? It's often still a 3.25" floppy disk, which > probably befuddles the heck out of anyone born after, say 1985. :) A few years ago, when I was still a teacher, our school had PCs that used floppy disks. It was really nice to hold up a floppy disk as a visual reference for saving. Those kids I taught were born in 1995. Moving to Palo Alto definitely opened my eyes to the differences in how people view technology here and how they see it in a rural border town. Here people Twitter rather than text message, assuming that everyone has an iPhone or n95. But you're right Dan, the floppy disk is outdated. The more I try to come up with a visual model for 'save' the more I think about synapses in a brain, firing away. Perhaps in the future, when the documents we make find and create their own parallels between eachother, the icon for save could be a stylized neuron, firing on use. Or maybe we could just think 'save' and do away with icons altogether. -Abi Jones Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
I'd argue that it is a global standard for populations using *computers* to access the internet, which makes it very safe globally in any web application. Alot of this argument revolves around the battle between idealists and realists. Realist: There's no better way to do this... Idealist: You can't say that! THERE'S ALWAYS A WAY. You're just not creative enough and you are close minded! Bad Designer! Realist: okay... show me a better way Idealist: ... well back in 1970's when I was in India ... P.S. - YOU eat muffins and drink coffee so there! Anyways ;) --- I still think using a different power icon is like fighting an uphill battle that is both pointless as it is futile. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
I think it's flippin me the bird. On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Murli Nagasundaram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Until I joined this conversation I had not noticed the difference between > the power on/off and standby symbols. Yes, now I can see the difference, > but I had no idea before that the two were significantly different. And I > was trained as a (mechanical) engineer. > > It's far too subtle a difference for most (regular) people. The symbol > also > looks vaguely sexual, although this is probably just my mind. > > -murli > > On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 7:39 PM, Bryan Minihan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > I think it looks a little like an ashtray... > > > > > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe > List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines > List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
> Some great user research on power icons was done by
> the group who developed the IEEE 1621, the "Power
> Control User Interface" standard. (offical name:*Standard
> for User Interface Elements in Power Control of Electronic
> Devices Employed in Office/Consumer Environments)
> *
I printed out that 55 page document on Wednesday, and it is probably
the best source of information I was able to find on the matter.
Specifically, on page 26 where it states:
>"3.4 The User Interface Standard Content
>Key elements of the User Interface Standard %u2014 the static
>interface %u2014 are to:
>Use only three power states when possible: On, Off, and >Sleep.
>Use the word "Power" for terminology about power.
>%u2022 Redefine the ('standby') symbol to mean %u201Cpower%u201D
as for >power buttons and power indicators; use
>the symbol (on/off) only when necessary."
As much of a contentious issue this seems to have become, I think
what it's served is bringing to the surface the fact that the
'signs' that have been incorporated as standards for power are far
from being universally (or even just globally) recognized.
As an interaction designer, I strive to ALWAYS adhere to the
standards that are already in place when doing whatever it is I do.
Unfortunately, in this case, if I were to have stuck to that strict
adherence, the product would have taken a fairly significant hit in
usability:
As I'd mentioned before, my users are most likely only going to use
this product once. (for the duration of their rental of the
conference room). Therefore, there were two options
1. Design it using the original standard with the vertical bar '1'
to 'power on' the system, knowing that the majority of users will
not immediately recognize that sign and will be somewhat confused,
but still get some satisfaction as an evangelist knowing that there
is now one more person in the world that has walked away with a new
knowledge and understanding of the icon. (go tell it on the
mountain!)
2. Forget the icon altogether and put the word "Start". Not nearly
as elegant, and the convention center could have people coming from
any country speaking any language, so not ideal.
Thankfully the referenced document pointed out the fact that the
Standby icon is perfectly acceptable.
I think the very fact that the standard has shifted a bit and is now
suggesting that the standby icon can sort of be the 'master' for
power speaks to the fact that there has been a history of confusion
over this set of signs.
I wasn't there, but I'm sure there was a lot of thought and
discourse put into the creation of this set of standards way back
when.
Are they ideal? Thus far they don't appear to be.
Do I have any better suggestions? Nope. Perhaps if the creation of
the standard were to happen today with this level of international
communication the group could come up with something better, but as
it stands... these are the standards and I am happy to live with the
"you can use 'Standby' if you need to" addendum.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
On Feb 29, 2008, at 9:59 AM, Bill DeRouchey wrote: > I'd rather spend time trying to rethink the Setup or Configure icon > that is usually displayed as gears or a wrench/spanner. To me, the > latter implies that my product is broken and I need to fix it. That's > definitely the wrong metaphor. There has to be something better than > that. > How about the Save icon? It's often still a 3.25" floppy disk, which probably befuddles the heck out of anyone born after, say 1985. :) Dan Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
Until I joined this conversation I had not noticed the difference between the power on/off and standby symbols. Yes, now I can see the difference, but I had no idea before that the two were significantly different. And I was trained as a (mechanical) engineer. It's far too subtle a difference for most (regular) people. The symbol also looks vaguely sexual, although this is probably just my mind. -murli On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 7:39 PM, Bryan Minihan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I think it looks a little like an ashtray... > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
It's interesting that people want to rethink the Power icon even though it's not a literal metaphor of "power." Yes, it's not globally accepted yet, but it's as close to a standard as we've got. We have so few standards, I prefer to adapt wherever possible. I'd rather spend time trying to rethink the Setup or Configure icon that is usually displayed as gears or a wrench/spanner. To me, the latter implies that my product is broken and I need to fix it. That's definitely the wrong metaphor. There has to be something better than that. Or to look at the problem another way, there is nothing inherent in an octagon that says STOP, yet if you showed a red octagon to anybody, they'd likely interpret it as stop. It took decades for that to become "standard", but time passes and it happens through repeated use. To me, the goal is a universal language for interaction so we can spend less time redefining the meaning of every element and instead assemble those elements into a beautiful/intuitive/useful experience. - Bill Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
On Feb 28, 2008, at 6:32 PM, Murli Nagasundaram wrote: > Until I moved to the US from India in 1986, I don't recall having > encountered the 0/1 power symbol more than a couple of times. Given that the symbols were defined in the early 1970s, and it's now 2008 where they've finally seen the kind of widespread adoption to be more universal... I'm not exactly sure what your point is bringing up 1986. That was two years after the first mainstream GUI was introduced by Apple. That's a lifetime ago in the digital industry. That's more than 20 years ago now. > Even today, > the symbol is quite rare except on computers and some other digital > products. The symbols are not rare. They are near ubiquitous. They are on nearly everything that has an electronic component or requires electricity these days. Nearly every modern appliance now uses these symbols. > This is not a rant against the 'Standard Power Symbol' -- it's > simply to > take note that naive assumptions about universality and a dismissive > attitude towards raising questions about the issue are very similar > to the > attitude of some system developers who view users as being 'losers' > and if > they are unable to appropriately use a system then its their own > problem. The IEC and IEEE develop standards with far more rigor and process than anyone in this young field of IxD ever does. Getting standards passed with the IEC is tough, and they put a lot of thought into the things they do. > Language and symbology does take time to permeate through society, > particularly a large, diverse, complex one. While most symbols are > at least > somewhat arbitrary, the 'right arrow/right-pointing triangle' used > for the > PLAY button is much less so -- pointing and arrows developed early > enough in > the evolution of the species that the symbol could be considered > 'universal'. The Pause and Stop symbols, however, are pretty darned > arbitrary -- the mapping to the real functions is cognitively more > taxing. Entirely made up. You are picking and choosing your reasoning without concrete, factual, researched evidence to back it up. > Sitting here in my parents' home in India, I can step out of the > house and > point at any random person outside and be fairly certain that they > don't > understand the 0/1 symbol. Give India another 20 years and I'm sure they will. The symbols were developed in the early 1970s and it hasn't been until late the 1990s that most people in the United States started understanding them better. It takes time. There are no shortcuts. > This situation is unlikely to change for a long while. See above. > I live with my aged parents in India now. Every day -- and indeed > several > times a day -- I encounter situations that they are unable to cope > with > because of an inability to deal with arbitrary symbols or > conventions, or > complex processes. Generalizing design principles from a Web 2.0 > user base > of twenty-something, college-educated, Americans leaves a whole lot of > people out in the cold. The power symbols were developed by experienced professionals in the well established field of engineering in the early 1970s. The symbols are not arbitrary, and had a lot of thought and process put into developing them, just like a lot of the other standards put into place. Your logic simply does not stand. Honestly... it's threads like this and random, arbitrary, unfounded logic or selective picking of whatever reason one feels like without knowing the history of the thing that gives designers a bad name in the eyes of engineers. Stop it. Please. -- Andrei Herasimchuk Principal, Involution Studios innovating the digital world e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] c. +1 408 306 6422 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
Alex, great questions, and more importantly, what I would consider the proper attitude. And I also like how you have presented your perspective as a personal one and not pretend to speak for entire populations or all of humankind. I think this is one good way to make progress in a contentious setting (dropping bombs on and imprisoning protestors being another way, although not a very healthy one). I will just speak to one thing that popped out of your message: "What represents power or something functioning? Lightning?" As a matter of fact, there is just one word in Hindi and Urdu for both "lightning" and "electricity" -- the word is 'bijlee'. Who'da thunk, hunh?! So for Hindi/Urdu speakers (who live in Northern India and much of Pakistan) a lighting flash symbol is likely to work well. Just how did you know, Alex? ;-) - murli On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 3:42 PM, Alexander Livingstone < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: What represents power or > something functioning? Lightning? I would associate that with danger. > > Alex. > -- murli nagasundaram, ph.d. | www.murli.com | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | +91 99 02 69 69 20 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
[IxDA Discuss] power icon
Some great user research on power icons was done by the group who developed the IEEE 1621, the "Power Control User Interface" standard. (offical name:*Standard for User Interface Elements in Power Control of Electronic Devices Employed in Office/Consumer Environments)* ** See http://eetd.lbl.gov/Controls/publications/pubsindex.html - Michele Marut Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
I think it looks a little like an ashtray... Which reminds me of the unfortunate name our team adopted at my last company...Global Application Services. We especially liked sending out emails right before promoting new software, called "GAS Release alerts". Bryan http://www.bryanminihan.com -Original Message- Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon At least one person thought that it was a cannonball-bomb with a fuse. Other people wondered have wondered if the icon looked on or off. -- Jody Tate Web Developer - UW Network Systems http://staff.washington.edu/jtate/ Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
There seem to be two things here: 1) When should we set/accept/challenge standards? 2) How much how people have to learn to interact with these abstract ideas that are so new in our evolution, and how much should be metaphor? Personally, I would want to go with the broken-circle-with-vertical-bar representation. It is a standard whose 'etymology' is based upon the engineering notation that have allowed these things to exist in the first place. It is becoming more and more widely used. It is visually distinct: OK, I can only speak for the roman alphabet and the symbolism that I have encountered over my lifetime, so there would be more investigation needed here. It is simple and elegant (a little subjective, but _I_ think it's elegant). Do we need to re-visit the symbol? The representation is consistent with the on/off 1/0 yes/no that is intrinsic to computers and is fairly unique to the man-made realm. You can't switch a goat off and on again. And what else could you use? What represents power or something functioning? Lightning? I would associate that with danger. The army? Inappropriate. An engine? Well, perhaps, but the association is a bit ropey. What does everyone think? Alex. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
...I'm guessing you don't use a power outlet ;) I don't see why there is so much hesitation to use the icon. For whatever reason or other, this circle IO has become a standard. Anyone who uses electricity (and those would be people using web apps) has probably encounted it. That's why it is safe to use in the OP's situation. Also... http://images.google.com/images?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=navclient&gfns=1&q=power+icon&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi There's really no other way to graphically represent an On/Off switch... Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
> In any case, once one learns that they are a 0 / 1, they must then find > the > proper mapping. Which one is off, and which is on? 0 should be off, 1 > should be on, but I can't say whether that transfers across cultures. I > understand that the concept of zero has different backgrounds across the > world and is quite different in the East. That's a good point. Although the fact that the graphic shows one interrupting the other simply indicates a change of state--so really, it doesn't matter which signifies "on" and which signifies "off". Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
I'm guessing you eat donuts and muffins for breakfast and take your coffee black -- isn't that what everybody does? ;-) Growing up in India, we used to use this thing that apparently came on wires -- though I have never actually see it with my eyes, I kinda believe the wise people who assured us it did. We used to attach the wires to a set of holes in the wall that the Village Elders told us never to explore because there were Evil Demons present in there. Perhaps because of their Evil Nature, the Wise Ones chose never to place any symbol next to the Wall Holes, lest the symbols imbue the Evil Demons with more vengeful power than they already possessed. Since the Gods have now decreed that there is No Other Way to graphically represent an On/Off switch I think we should hereafter accept it as our totem. Sorry to sound like a troll, but I am amused by the 'No Other Way' perspective among some designers. I think it is possible to both acknowledge that there might be few options but to learn an arbitrarily developed symbol as well as understand and accept that there are going to be issues relating to having it universally recognized. This is just being realistic. Designing while esconced in an ivory tower is not particularly useful. Regards, murli On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 8:16 AM, Weixi Yen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ...I'm guessing you don't use a power outlet ;) > > I don't see why there is so much hesitation to use the icon. For whatever > reason or other, this circle IO has become a standard. Anyone who uses > electricity (and those would be people using web apps) has probably > encounted it. That's why it is safe to use in the OP's situation. > > Also... > > http://images.google.com/images?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=navclient&gfns=1&q=power+icon&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi > > There's really no other way to graphically represent an On/Off switch... > -- murli nagasundaram, ph.d. | www.murli.com | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | +91 99 02 69 69 20 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
Until I moved to the US from India in 1986, I don't recall having encountered the 0/1 power symbol more than a couple of times. Even today, the symbol is quite rare except on computers and some other digital products. Many educated people in India could probably guess at the meaning of the symbol but the use or awareness of the symbol is far from universal in land of over a billion people (and a rapidly emerging market for consumer durables). This is not a rant against the 'Standard Power Symbol' -- it's simply to take note that naive assumptions about universality and a dismissive attitude towards raising questions about the issue are very similar to the attitude of some system developers who view users as being 'losers' and if they are unable to appropriately use a system then its their own problem. Language and symbology does take time to permeate through society, particularly a large, diverse, complex one. While most symbols are at least somewhat arbitrary, the 'right arrow/right-pointing triangle' used for the PLAY button is much less so -- pointing and arrows developed early enough in the evolution of the species that the symbol could be considered 'universal'. The Pause and Stop symbols, however, are pretty darned arbitrary -- the mapping to the real functions is cognitively more taxing. Sitting here in my parents' home in India, I can step out of the house and point at any random person outside and be fairly certain that they don't understand the 0/1 symbol. This situation is unlikely to change for a long while. Indeed, I am pretty sure that they are more likely to associate the power function with a button colored RED than one with an arbitrary symbol slapped on it. The association of a color or more primeval shape with a fundamental function such as power on/off is more likely than its association with an arbitrary symbol. Speaking of learning arbitrary conventions: Power switches in India follow the British standard of turning on if the switch is down and turning off it is up -- the reverse of what obtains in the Americas. While one's mind quickly learns this distinction, muscle memory is quite another thing. The reliance on arbitrary symbols in a critical, possibly catastrophic situation is fraught with peril, especially if quick reflexes are essential to contain a rapidly emergent problem. I learned to drive on the left hand side of the road in India and then had to learn to drive on the other side in the US. I'm pretty good at switching sides when I travel across the oceans and choose to drive. But I know a lot of people who refuse to drive in one or another country because they don't trust their reflexes. And if you choose to drive in India, you'd better have good reflexes -- and a calm, unruffled, mind. I live with my aged parents in India now. Every day -- and indeed several times a day -- I encounter situations that they are unable to cope with because of an inability to deal with arbitrary symbols or conventions, or complex processes. Generalizing design principles from a Web 2.0 user base of twenty-something, college-educated, Americans leaves a whole lot of people out in the cold. - murli Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
Thought Bill DeRouchey's Language of Interaction was relevant here: http://www.languageofinteraction.com/ As he points out designers/IxDers are the curators of the language of interaction, and our usage of symbols is part of the process of teaching them to people. A triangle for "Play" is only the accepted standard because it is, not because that symbol is inherently "play-like". I only recently heard about the 0/1 bit, but that's never interfered with my usage of a power button. His piece is really worth a read... Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
On Feb 28, 2008, at 3:31 PM, Loren Baxter wrote: > I definitely see where you're coming from with standardization, but > I've > never felt that it was a good standard. Sometimes the status quo > simply > isn't good enough; I think the power icon is a fine candidate for > that. This thread has now entering the silly realm. The symbols for On, Off, Toggle On/Off and Standby are elegant, simple, clean, easy to draw and can be used anywhere and under any condition. The fact designers and others have used them incorrectly is an entirely separate problem. Creating symbols that are general enough, can work under any print or manufacturing process while also being clear and not easily confused with OTHER standard symbols that have been defined -- while also being reasonably culturally agnostic -- is extraordinarily difficult. The folks who created these particular symbols did an amazing job solving this problem. A long time ago, I made the decision at Adobe to propagate the "new" icon across all the products. It's the rectangle with the "page tear" in the corner. Does that symbol mean "new." Good luck trying to find anything that means "new." You pick a symbol based a few criteria, a large part of which is due to it simplicity to draw it, then spend literally years, often times decades, making it a standard. Question: How is the symbol for the letter "A" intuitive or meaningful? Answer: It's not. Someone a long time ago drew it, probably some despot liked it or otherwise forced it onto his people, those people won a lot of wars and the symbol stuck. After that, you were basically taught at a very early age that "A" was the symbol for the letter A. And it took you a long time to learn all those symbols in the alphabet while you were in grade school, but thankfully you were young and less inclined to argue about how intuitive the symbol was based solely on nothing more than your own personal opinion or experience. In other words, the symbol had already made its way into the culture and you learned it like you and everyone else learned all those other symbols: You were taught what it meant by someone else. The On, Off, Toggle On/Off, and Standby symbols are elegant, simple and very useful, and are a standard in the engineering and manufacturing industry. Trying to go against them -- especially now that they are legitimate standards -- is the largest possible waste of time imho. I think we simply need to learn what they are and use them properly. The faster designers do that, the faster they will become "intuitive" in society at large as people are taught what the symbols mean. -- Andrei Herasimchuk Principal, Involution Studios innovating the digital world e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] c. +1 408 306 6422 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
> I think you would have to travel pretty far to find > a country where people didn't know the meaning of > 0 and 1. And if you where even able to find a country > that didn't know 0 from 1, didn't have engineers and > didn't have electricity they wouldn't need a power > button anyway :-) To be honest, I didn't even know that it is a 0 / 1 until I read this discussion. If they are a zero and one, they should look like real letters, not abstract shapes. Zeros are generally not perfect circles, in almost any standard font. In any case, once one learns that they are a 0 / 1, they must then find the proper mapping. Which one is off, and which is on? 0 should be off, 1 should be on, but I can't say whether that transfers across cultures. I understand that the concept of zero has different backgrounds across the world and is quite different in the East. Then there's the added confusion of closed and open circuits. In that case, it should be the opposite (the 0 or closed circuit means on). I definitely see where you're coming from with standardization, but I've never felt that it was a good standard. Sometimes the status quo simply isn't good enough; I think the power icon is a fine candidate for that. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
This is relevant to a reorganization of my division at the University of Washington. We were formerly the artist known as "Computing and Communications." We're now "UW Technology." The fun, however, has been the new logo incorporating a "power" icon. It appears here with all the requisite verbiage, http://www.washington.edu/uwtech/ , but you can see it without scrolling here: http://www.washington.edu/uwtech/images/ovpuwt_pref_rgb_205w.gif . At least one person thought that it was a cannonball-bomb with a fuse. Other people wondered have wondered if the icon looked on or off. -- Jody Tate Web Developer - UW Network Systems http://staff.washington.edu/jtate/ Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
Gee, that's helpful. "Standby" — even if a user knew that's what it meant — is only marginally more useful than "closed circuit" (again, if the user even knows that's what if symbol means, and then what the term itself means). And thus, "what it means" isn't of any use here. To the majority of users, it is just a nonsense icon that "means" "power". (It shows on the "glare reduction" button on the mirror in our current rental car, in fact.) But it has become widespread enough -- I've seen it on computer switches for a decade now -- that it is the de facto standard that users now expect (if they expect anything). The only generic user-created deciphering of the icon that I've heard created which makes sense is "it's a toggle switch" — a circle with a flip switch in the middle. Since pressing the button typically toggles the power on and off, that's at least a "meaning" that generic users can often grasp. -- Jim Drew Seattle, WA (but currently in Ireland) On Feb 27, 2008, at 11:09 PM, Bruce Esrig wrote: > According to the standards, the two components are a vertical > stroke and a > circle. When the vertical stroke goes through the top of the > circle, the > meaning is "standby". Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
Considering I have actual relatives who would never in a million years make the connection between on/off and 1/0, (and they are not stupid, old, uneducated or otherwise outlying cases) I think it's foolish to believe that this symbol is as universally comprehensible as you would like to believe it is. It is certainly not "universally recognized" or known. Katie >Why would it lose its meaning in an underdeveloped country?? > >I think you would have to travel pretty far to find a country where people >didn't know the meaning of 0 and 1. >And if you where even able to find a country that didn't know 0 from 1, >didn't have engineers and didn't have electricity they wouldn't need a power >button anyway :-) >Btw, check out the symbol used on the power button on the One Laptop Per >Child. > >I've thought a little bit about why I react to this discussion. I agree that >the symbol is very engineer-ish, not especially intuitive and not >particularly good looking. But as an IxD I jump at ANY chance to build on >prior knowledge, things people know. This symbol has been around for 40 >years, is standardized, is culture-proof - interpreted in exactly the same >way over the entire globe. Are there more than a handful of other symbols in >the same league? The play/pause symbol qualifies I guess. Why would anyone >want to mess with a symbol that is universally recognized? Why not try to >fix the gazillion of things that are broken instead of breaking the few >things that work? I don't get it. > >This is turning into a rant. Sorry! :-) > >Morten -- Katie Albers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
Why would it lose its meaning in an underdeveloped country?? I think you would have to travel pretty far to find a country where people didn't know the meaning of 0 and 1. And if you where even able to find a country that didn't know 0 from 1, didn't have engineers and didn't have electricity they wouldn't need a power button anyway :-) Btw, check out the symbol used on the power button on the One Laptop Per Child. I've thought a little bit about why I react to this discussion. I agree that the symbol is very engineer-ish, not especially intuitive and not particularly good looking. But as an IxD I jump at ANY chance to build on prior knowledge, things people know. This symbol has been around for 40 years, is standardized, is culture-proof - interpreted in exactly the same way over the entire globe. Are there more than a handful of other symbols in the same league? The play/pause symbol qualifies I guess. Why would anyone want to mess with a symbol that is universally recognized? Why not try to fix the gazillion of things that are broken instead of breaking the few things that work? I don't get it. This is turning into a rant. Sorry! :-) Morten On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 11:39:21, Loren Baxter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This may be the simplest form of an "engineering driven interface" > ever encountered. 1 vs 0? Closed vs open circuit? Show that symbol > to someone in an undeveloped country and it loses its meaning. > > It's certainly easy to think of a more intuitive symbol using > natural phenomena rather than artificial. Use the sun: circle for > off, circle emitting rays for on. But I do wonder: how could such an > entrenched standard as the power symbol ever change? > > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > Posted from the new ixda.org > http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=26596 > > > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe > List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines > List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help > -- Morten Hjerde http://sender11.typepad.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
This may be the simplest form of an "engineering driven interface" ever encountered. 1 vs 0? Closed vs open circuit? Show that symbol to someone in an undeveloped country and it loses its meaning. It's certainly easy to think of a more intuitive symbol using natural phenomena rather than artificial. Use the sun: circle for off, circle emitting rays for on. But I do wonder: how could such an entrenched standard as the power symbol ever change? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=26596 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
Compare with the definitive origins of the Peace Symbol. http://www.docspopuli.org/articles/PeaceSymbolArticle.html How many know that it is stylized representation of the composite semaphore signs for the letters 'N' and 'D', as in 'Nuclear Disarmament'? Or that at one point, the Christian Cross was an option considered? The symbol is widely recognized among certain cultures or subcultures. It is even meaningful to anyone familiar with semaphore. But for most others, it is pretty arbitrary. Nevertheless, it has taken on a life of its own. Murli -- murli nagasundaram, ph.d. | www.murli.com | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | +91 99 02 69 69 20 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
> > Whether correctly implemented or not, it's the last of the above symbols > (the 'standby toggle') that we see most commonly applied to refer to > 'power'. > Not 100% sure about "most commonly". But I'd accept "commonly". The standby symbol is often seen on computers and monitors and interpreted by most people as "power on/off", because, well, thats what it appears to do. But in reality the device is set in standby mode and not turned completely off (aka "Vampire Appliances"). I believe that in technical terms the "power off" switch is required to disconnect the device from the mains (or whatever power source it uses). Interestingly, most mobile phones (Nokia, Sony Ericsson, Samsung, LG and Blackberry) uses the "power on/off" symbol to turn the phone on or off. Motorola used both, but seem to have settled for "power on/off". HTC and Palm uses the "standby" symbol to turn the phone on or off. -- Morten Hjerde http://sender11.typepad.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
What an interesting little journey into the depths of the ISO/IEEE Power Control User Interface standard this topic started. The links that have been posted here have been great, and I'm glad to see this topic has been visited time and time again in various forums over the years, and that I'm not the first person to have questioned it. (It certainly goes to prove once again that sometimes the most seemingly simple functions can be deviously shrouded in all sorts of complications.) The reference to the standard that the Wikipedia link has four different symbols for 'power on', 'power off', 'power on/off toggle' and 'power on/standby toggle'. Whether correctly implemented or not, it's the last of the above symbols (the 'standby toggle') that we see most commonly applied to refer to 'power'. According to the original standard, as Morten has pointed out, the symbol I'm referring to would only be correctly implemented if it was strictly referencing a toggle between "standby" and "power". The "power on" symbol is simply a single vertical bar. Well, the interface I am currently designing is a touchpanel which resides in a lecturn for a large, publicly available conference room. The user will be anybody who rents the space for a presentation, and they will not have the luxury of being trained in how to use the system. The complexity of all the equipment needs to be completely invisible to them, and the "Power on" symbol on the only available button perfectly satisfied this requirement. Until, of course, I realized that symbol would 'break' the standard. It's not a toggle. The correct symbol is the vertical bar for that function. I quickly redesigned the interface to be the vertical bar and held a quick and dirty survey (ie: anybody walking past my workstation): Nobody had any idea what the button meant, (one person said "I dunno, is that the Eye of Sauron?") yet when I showed them the other 'wrong' interface, they instantly recognized the "standby toggle" to mean "power". I read the addendum on the standard, I was incredibly relieved to find that there has been some pushes to incorporate the 'standby toggle' to simply mean "power" if possible. If there are safety considerations in the equipment you are controlling where it's absolutely essential to indicate whether or not the hardware is still being supplied by power there's a need to use the 4-state standard and be very clear about the differences between 'power on', 'power off', 'power on/off toggle' and 'power on/standby', but "when possible" it suggests using the 'standby toggle' to simply mean power. Phew. Here's another concise link for some of the same topic: http://eepn.com/Locator/Products/Index.cfm?Ad=1&Ad=1&ArticleID=31710 Shaun On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 3:38 PM, Morten Hjerde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Id say that the only awful thing about about the power symbol is that it > is > misused by designers who presumably don't like the "look" of it. Its like > saying I don't like the letter A because visually it doesn't say "a" > to > me. > > The symbol is a standard. Power as such does not have any visual component > so the world has agreed on a fairly easily recognizable symbol and people > have just learned the meaning of it. > > The symbol consists of a "1" which means "on" state and a "0" that means > "off" state. If the "1" is inside a "0" it means toggle on/off. The symbol > you describe is the standby symbol. You may of course invent your own, but > if you are going to use the power symbol, please use it correctly. Check > wikipedia here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_symbol > > Morten > > > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 11:58 PM, Shaun Bergmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > Interesting. > > Unless I was designing something with the understanding that my ENTIRE > > audience was comprised of electrical engineers, I doubt I would think > this > > is a very good design. > > Which brings me back to 'How did this awful thing get to be so > widespread > > and popular?" > > Was there a particular product that used it once, way back in the dark > > ages, > > that injected it's branding and just beat the world population into > > understanding that "this means power"? > > > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 2:43 PM, William Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > From electrical engineering. Its a closed circuit. > > > > > > will evans > > > user experience architect > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > 617.281.1281 > > > > > > > > > On Feb 27, 2008, at 5:37 PM, "Shaun Bergmann" > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > A discussion came up at the office today that got me wondering. > > > > Do any of you know the history of the 'Power' Icon? You know the > > > > one: The > > > > circle with the vertical bar pointing up and overlapping the top > > > > edge of the > > > > circle. > > > > > > > > This icon was being incorporated into an interface and the argument > > > > was made > > > > that "not everybody is going to know what that
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
If you read through all the comments here, you'll get some reasonable answers. http://www.beatnikpad.com/archives/2004/02/03/the_power_on_icon -Scott Scott Berkun www.scottberkun.com - Original Message - From: "Shaun Bergmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 2:37 PM Subject: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon > A discussion came up at the office today that got me wondering. > Do any of you know the history of the 'Power' Icon? You know the one: The > circle with the vertical bar pointing up and overlapping the top edge of the > circle. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
Id say that the only awful thing about about the power symbol is that it is misused by designers who presumably don't like the "look" of it. Its like saying I don't like the letter A because visually it doesn't say "a" to me. The symbol is a standard. Power as such does not have any visual component so the world has agreed on a fairly easily recognizable symbol and people have just learned the meaning of it. The symbol consists of a "1" which means "on" state and a "0" that means "off" state. If the "1" is inside a "0" it means toggle on/off. The symbol you describe is the standby symbol. You may of course invent your own, but if you are going to use the power symbol, please use it correctly. Check wikipedia here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_symbol Morten On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 11:58 PM, Shaun Bergmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Interesting. > Unless I was designing something with the understanding that my ENTIRE > audience was comprised of electrical engineers, I doubt I would think this > is a very good design. > Which brings me back to 'How did this awful thing get to be so widespread > and popular?" > Was there a particular product that used it once, way back in the dark > ages, > that injected it's branding and just beat the world population into > understanding that "this means power"? > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 2:43 PM, William Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > From electrical engineering. Its a closed circuit. > > > > will evans > > user experience architect > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > 617.281.1281 > > > > > > On Feb 27, 2008, at 5:37 PM, "Shaun Bergmann" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > A discussion came up at the office today that got me wondering. > > > Do any of you know the history of the 'Power' Icon? You know the > > > one: The > > > circle with the vertical bar pointing up and overlapping the top > > > edge of the > > > circle. > > > > > > This icon was being incorporated into an interface and the argument > > > was made > > > that "not everybody is going to know what that icon means" > > > > > > That's totally possible. If anything stands out as a good example of > > > the > > > statement that there are no intuitive interfaces -- all interfaces are > > > learned -- it's this icon. The only reason people are going to know > > > that > > > it's the power button is because they know it's the power button. > > > > > > I looked at it's design from a fresh perspective today and really > > > have to > > > question WHY it's become so prevalent? Visually, it doesn't say > > > "power" to > > > me. Where'd this thing come from? > > > > > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > > > To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe > > > List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines > > > List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help > > > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe > List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines > List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help > -- Morten Hjerde http://sender11.typepad.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
Thanks Bruce! that's exactly what I was looking for. >"The source art for all the icons was extremely specific, and to be used in its exact form and for its prescribed purpose. Circle used discretely was for off; bar used discretely was for on; bar inside the circle >was reserved for controls that provided power on/off on a single control, like a push on/push off switch. As far as I know, anything else is a stylized modification that was "inspired" by the ISO standard but >does not conform to it." Sounds to me like they decided to simply go with binary. 0/1 (or as put here, Circle / Bar) Neat idea, but I still don't like it. I won't even start about the issues I have with the 1/0 power toggle on the back of most computers. So, it's a standard. Suppose it's a bit of an uphill climb at this point changing a standard, but it begs to question: What would have been better? On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 3:09 PM, Bruce Esrig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Bill DeRouchey asked this question just a few weeks ago and got some > pretty > authoritative answers. It traces back, most recently, to a harmonized > standard that has been given different numbers by ISO and the IEEE. > > You can see the comments from industrial designers at > > http://www.historyofthebutton.com/2007/01/30/printer-icons-design-by-habit/ > > According to the standards, the two components are a vertical stroke and a > circle. When the vertical stroke goes through the top of the circle, the > meaning is "standby". > > Best wishes, > > Bruce Esrig > > On 2/27/08, William Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > From electrical engineering. Its a closed circuit. > > > > will evans > > user experience architect > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > 617.281.1281 > > > > > > On Feb 27, 2008, at 5:37 PM, "Shaun Bergmann" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > A discussion came up at the office today that got me wondering. > > > Do any of you know the history of the 'Power' Icon? You know the > > > one: The > > > circle with the vertical bar pointing up and overlapping the top > > > edge of the > > > circle. > > > > > > This icon was being incorporated into an interface and the argument > > > was made > > > that "not everybody is going to know what that icon means" > > > > > > That's totally possible. If anything stands out as a good example of > > > the > > > statement that there are no intuitive interfaces -- all interfaces are > > > learned -- it's this icon. The only reason people are going to know > > > that > > > it's the power button is because they know it's the power button. > > > > > > I looked at it's design from a fresh perspective today and really > > > have to > > > question WHY it's become so prevalent? Visually, it doesn't say > > > "power" to > > > me. Where'd this thing come from? > > > > > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > > > To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe > > > List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines > > > List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help > > > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > > To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe > > List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines > > List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help > > > > > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe > List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines > List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
Bill DeRouchey asked this question just a few weeks ago and got some pretty authoritative answers. It traces back, most recently, to a harmonized standard that has been given different numbers by ISO and the IEEE. You can see the comments from industrial designers at http://www.historyofthebutton.com/2007/01/30/printer-icons-design-by-habit/ According to the standards, the two components are a vertical stroke and a circle. When the vertical stroke goes through the top of the circle, the meaning is "standby". Best wishes, Bruce Esrig On 2/27/08, William Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > From electrical engineering. Its a closed circuit. > > will evans > user experience architect > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 617.281.1281 > > > On Feb 27, 2008, at 5:37 PM, "Shaun Bergmann" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > A discussion came up at the office today that got me wondering. > > Do any of you know the history of the 'Power' Icon? You know the > > one: The > > circle with the vertical bar pointing up and overlapping the top > > edge of the > > circle. > > > > This icon was being incorporated into an interface and the argument > > was made > > that "not everybody is going to know what that icon means" > > > > That's totally possible. If anything stands out as a good example of > > the > > statement that there are no intuitive interfaces -- all interfaces are > > learned -- it's this icon. The only reason people are going to know > > that > > it's the power button is because they know it's the power button. > > > > I looked at it's design from a fresh perspective today and really > > have to > > question WHY it's become so prevalent? Visually, it doesn't say > > "power" to > > me. Where'd this thing come from? > > > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > > To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe > > List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines > > List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe > List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines > List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
That is interesting, because even knowing what it is, my mind has to close the circuit on "what does that mean?" -which I guess brings up the question if widespread use translates to true usability, or just dancing-bear familiarity. Scott On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 5:58 PM, Shaun Bergmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Interesting. > Unless I was designing something with the understanding that my ENTIRE > audience was comprised of electrical engineers, I doubt I would think this > is a very good design. > Which brings me back to 'How did this awful thing get to be so widespread > and popular?" > Was there a particular product that used it once, way back in the dark ages, > that injected it's branding and just beat the world population into > understanding that "this means power"? -- 'Life' plus 'significance' = magic. ~ Grant Morrison Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
Interesting. Unless I was designing something with the understanding that my ENTIRE audience was comprised of electrical engineers, I doubt I would think this is a very good design. Which brings me back to 'How did this awful thing get to be so widespread and popular?" Was there a particular product that used it once, way back in the dark ages, that injected it's branding and just beat the world population into understanding that "this means power"? On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 2:43 PM, William Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From electrical engineering. Its a closed circuit. > > will evans > user experience architect > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 617.281.1281 > > > On Feb 27, 2008, at 5:37 PM, "Shaun Bergmann" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > A discussion came up at the office today that got me wondering. > > Do any of you know the history of the 'Power' Icon? You know the > > one: The > > circle with the vertical bar pointing up and overlapping the top > > edge of the > > circle. > > > > This icon was being incorporated into an interface and the argument > > was made > > that "not everybody is going to know what that icon means" > > > > That's totally possible. If anything stands out as a good example of > > the > > statement that there are no intuitive interfaces -- all interfaces are > > learned -- it's this icon. The only reason people are going to know > > that > > it's the power button is because they know it's the power button. > > > > I looked at it's design from a fresh perspective today and really > > have to > > question WHY it's become so prevalent? Visually, it doesn't say > > "power" to > > me. Where'd this thing come from? > > > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > > To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe > > List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines > > List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Power icon
From electrical engineering. Its a closed circuit. will evans user experience architect [EMAIL PROTECTED] 617.281.1281 On Feb 27, 2008, at 5:37 PM, "Shaun Bergmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > A discussion came up at the office today that got me wondering. > Do any of you know the history of the 'Power' Icon? You know the > one: The > circle with the vertical bar pointing up and overlapping the top > edge of the > circle. > > This icon was being incorporated into an interface and the argument > was made > that "not everybody is going to know what that icon means" > > That's totally possible. If anything stands out as a good example of > the > statement that there are no intuitive interfaces -- all interfaces are > learned -- it's this icon. The only reason people are going to know > that > it's the power button is because they know it's the power button. > > I looked at it's design from a fresh perspective today and really > have to > question WHY it's become so prevalent? Visually, it doesn't say > "power" to > me. Where'd this thing come from? > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe > List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines > List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
[IxDA Discuss] Power icon
A discussion came up at the office today that got me wondering. Do any of you know the history of the 'Power' Icon? You know the one: The circle with the vertical bar pointing up and overlapping the top edge of the circle. This icon was being incorporated into an interface and the argument was made that "not everybody is going to know what that icon means" That's totally possible. If anything stands out as a good example of the statement that there are no intuitive interfaces -- all interfaces are learned -- it's this icon. The only reason people are going to know that it's the power button is because they know it's the power button. I looked at it's design from a fresh perspective today and really have to question WHY it's become so prevalent? Visually, it doesn't say "power" to me. Where'd this thing come from? Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
