[IxDA Discuss] Recruiters and Other Employment Posters
When the new site launches next week, a key enhancement is the addition of a job board. This board allows you to post details of your job offering within a clear, directed form. You will be able to define the job title, details, full- or part-time or contract, and rich-text details. You can also target specific IxDA local groups where you want to post the job (as well as it being available in the full job board). So make sure you come back to the site early next week and post your jobs! Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Recruiters
On Mar 27, 2008, at 10:55 AM, W Evans wrote: I know I have had a resume posted on Monster since about 2003, and I do update it every 6 months or so even though I have never gotten a job from monster - but what really burns my goat is that I very clearly say: 1. I have done IA and IxD work for a really long time 2. I have no interest in relocating for short term contracts 3. how much I cost About once a year, I get an e-mail query from someone who found my resume online. One that I posted to my first personal website. Last update: March 21, 2000. I leave it up just for giggles these days, and to give me an excuse to be rude to anyone who sends me a response from it. -- Jim Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Recruiters
W Evans wrote: Why can't recruiters read? I know I have had a resume posted on Monster since about 2003, and I do update it every 6 months or so even though I have never gotten a job from monster - but what really burns my goat is that I very clearly say: 1. I have done IA and IxD work for a really long time 2. I have no interest in relocating for short term contracts 3. how much I cost I think that a fair number of recruiters take the shotgun approach: if you throw enough shot into the air, eventually, something will hit. Or, they just blindly call/email whatever their automated tools hand them. I get the same sort of emails and calls from a local recruiting agency. They are using a 9 year old resume, and when I send them an updated resume and indicate that I now do IxD work, I'll still occasionally get calls about C++ and Cognos BI tools (which I used 9 years ago). Ron PS: On the flip side, at the end of 2006, when we were trying to fill a design/usability position, we had this one fellow apply. His main qualification, as far as I could tell, was that he completed a month of an automotive mechanics course. He also applied for every other position that the company had open, from sales to support to those requiring highly technical domain expertise. Again, shotgun approach. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Recruiters
As Dick Chaney showed us all last year - the shotgun approach, isn't always the most effective, is it? Thanks for your comment :-) ~w On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 7:27 AM, Ron Vutpakdi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: W Evans wrote: Why can't recruiters read? I know I have had a resume posted on Monster since about 2003, and I do update it every 6 months or so even though I have never gotten a job from monster - but what really burns my goat is that I very clearly say: 1. I have done IA and IxD work for a really long time 2. I have no interest in relocating for short term contracts 3. how much I cost I think that a fair number of recruiters take the shotgun approach: if you throw enough shot into the air, eventually, something will hit. Or, they just blindly call/email whatever their automated tools hand them. I get the same sort of emails and calls from a local recruiting agency. They are using a 9 year old resume, and when I send them an updated resume and indicate that I now do IxD work, I'll still occasionally get calls about C++ and Cognos BI tools (which I used 9 years ago). Ron PS: On the flip side, at the end of 2006, when we were trying to fill a design/usability position, we had this one fellow apply. His main qualification, as far as I could tell, was that he completed a month of an automotive mechanics course. He also applied for every other position that the company had open, from sales to support to those requiring highly technical domain expertise. Again, shotgun approach. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Recruiters
That does sort of bring to mind questions- what ~does~ getting into IT recruiting involve? Is it like being a real estate agent/broker, but for IT jobs? Special degrees beyond the obvious? HR background? Nice smile? Most of my interactions have been positive when I've been looking at positions, at least a combination of good intent and luck that the offerings were at least in the neighborhood where I was looking. This seems to vary wildly with the shotgun calls I get (No, I don't know Esperanto.), usually when I'm feeling solid in my current position. On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Brett Ingram [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or you could get into the recruiting business yourself. My experience has been that this can't be automated very well - its a very personal kind of thing. -- 'Life' plus 'significance' = magic. ~ Grant Morrison Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Recruiters
At the risk of really getting you guys going - I'd like to take a stab at this. I've been a creative recruiter for two years, working at a company that's been around for 30 years, working primarily in tech and creative, so I know at least a little about what is going on To start with - NO - most of us do not have a specialized degree; however, a good number of us have worked in the advertising/creative industries at some point in our careers. I started as a fresh grad with an English degree from a liberal arts school. I got my job because I have excellent communication skills, am a quick learner, and have an eye for design. So, NO, we don't actually do what you do. Most of us are not hands on designers, information architects, or interaction designers. I had a client once who was outraged that I couldn't read HTML code to determine whether it would be pixel perfect - I told her that if I could, I wouldn't be doing my job, I would be coding! In other words, if we could do what you guys do, barring some exceptions we would be doing it, not recruiting. My company is very specialized, so 98% of the orders we work on are the same song and dance. We know the types of candidates who do it, often we are friendly with them, and are able to get our clients the talent they want and our candidates the exact type of work they are looking for. Everyone is happy and there is much rejoicing in the streets! That said, sometimes we do get an order that we don't understand. I am guilty of once writing a job ad that read something like, first you wash the LAMP with the SOAP. At my company, when we don't understand an order we do a variety of things to get clarity - online research, drill the client, call up a candidate we have a relationship with that can shed some light on it (one of our recruiters is married to a hybrid AD/Flash Developer at an NYC agency, so he gets calls sometimes). All of those things completed, though, sometimes we still don't understand and we have a client that is crying and wants to give us money to find someone to help them. This is when things get troublesome. We often are forced to rely on skill searches to direct us to a candidate pool - so if you have the appropriate language on your resume, you will be worth calling in times of great desperation. (Also - our own candidate database is the most poorly designed piece of crap software that I have ever seen or tried to work with - but again, that's something that we can't fix because we don't have the software engineering skills to pull that off.) We often know that you haven't coded HTML/CSS for several years when we call. We know that your IDEAL position is not what we are presenting you with. But sometimes - probably more often than you'd believe - the stars line up and a candidate who is a little rusty in a particular area happens to be willing to do some work for a very desperate client for the proper amount of compensation. This won't happen, though, unless we make the call. Recruiters aspire to be matchmakers. It is personal in that way. However, sometimes in a desperate attempt to keep our clients happy, we have to make embarrassing cold calls. I don't like it any more than you guys do. I hope that helps and I'm bracing for your responses. Jackie O'Hare | Manager of Interactive Recruitment TTS Personnel, Inc Jackie at ttspersonnel dot com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
[IxDA Discuss] Recruiters
what ~does~ getting into IT recruiting involve? Is it like being a real estate agent/broker, but for IT jobs? Special degrees beyond the obvious? HR background? Nice smile? I thought I would chime in as I am an IT Recruiter. The issues raised are all legitimate. It is true that many recruiters practice a shotgun approach. I do not subscribe to that as IT has developed in such a dynamic and specialized way; that finding the right person for an opportunity is all about the details. From a credibility stand point it does not serve anyones interest to propose a role to a candidate nor a candidate to a client; that is not a suitable match; this undermines the confidence of your constituency on all fronts. As a individual; I have also suffered the slings and arrows of blasts and errant calls that were no where near my profile. Mostly to blame are the companies and learship of these companies; they have no clue; to them it is a sales model and you throw as much dung at the walls and see what sticks; so they are often inclined to hire someone that has no clue and pay them less and cultivate a rote machine like manner; then to hire someone who approaches in a professional, analytical and yes ethical manner with the proper etiquette and builds a following that is based on mutual respect and interest. Most are not trained; simply given simple templates; but there are those that have an appreciation and the intelligence that develop into more reputable and effective advocates and agents that serve their end clients and candidates well. I have maintained relationships and developed friendships with indiviudals that I help facilitate an opportunity for since 1999; when I entered the industry and have earn the respect of clients and candidates alike; for providing a timely and cost effective service that has led to the development of successful careers and the loyalty of hiring managers that value my efforts and input. I have also learned much from the folks; (..your mailing list included.;o)that I serve and congregate with and it has made me a better recruiter and I too have learned to accept that in the execution of my duties and with all the best intentions; I will deal with candidates who are dishonest, self serving, deluded and lacking in social grace and ethical value; but as in life and in balance; the good outshines the bad. ...and yes; I'm advise that I have a great smile..infectious even; a degree in Theatre Mgmt, classically trained In Stanislavski Method, politcally active and socially conscious, a frustrated writer and most of all... my kids dad. Just wanted you to give you a beacon of sorts. I thought the litany of comparisons might lead to include; Theatrical agents and lawyers; but thats another post subject altogether...:o) -Bert Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Recruiters
Helen Killingbeck wrote: I think that a face to face with recruiters at a local chapter of your favourite UX/IxD/UPA/IA meeting would be helpful. Oooh, now that's a really clever and mutually beneficial idea for a good recruiter and a savvy local chapter to exploit. I have met some very good recruiters. Ones that have some understanding of what might be involved or at least the meanings of words and acronyms. Ones that take the long view and work at establishing relationships. I don't mind getting not a particularly good match calls or emails from these recruiters since I'd like to take the long view as well. Even if I'm not interested in that particular position or that position at this time, down the road, I might be interested in another position, know of someone who might be, or might need to fill a position myself. Then, I'll contact the ones that didn't make me feel like I got hit by errant buckshot. Ron Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Recruiters
On Mar 27, 2008, at 12:29 PM, Jay Morgan wrote: You could mine that opportunity and build an app that aggregates jobs and candidates, then maps skills. That might look like a wizard to an uninformed recruiter, and it would be a big relief to people like us. Or you could get into the recruiting business yourself. My experience has been that this can't be automated very well - its a very personal kind of thing. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
[IxDA Discuss] Recruiters
Hi, is this Will Evans, the unknown voice asked. Yes, it is, who is this? This is Sarah X from CTR, Clueless Technical Resources, and we had an opportunity that we think might be a great fit for you. Really - do tell? We have a great opportunity for a 3 month contract as a J2EE Architect for a Fortune 500 company in Des Moines, Iowa. Excellent - you do realize that I have never coded java before, I am moving to DC on Saturday...and don't travel for short term contract work... Can I ask you what your rate is Um... a three month contract 1000 miles from where I live doing something I have never done for a big evil multinational that destroys labor unions while not offering health care benefits to it's employeescan I get back to you on that? -- Why can't recruiters read? I know I have had a resume posted on Monster since about 2003, and I do update it every 6 months or so even though I have never gotten a job from monster - but what really burns my goat is that I very clearly say: 1. I have done IA and IxD work for a really long time 2. I have no interest in relocating for short term contracts 3. how much I cost Yet they never read that. I want to put together a list of all the Good not evil recruiting firms that actually know the difference between an interaction designer, information architect, and UI engineer - at least knows enough to know we aren't Java or .Net engineers. Post back to me recruiters that are great -on either side of the hiring equation. It might be nice to have a list of places to go that get us -- ~ will Where you innovate, how you innovate, and what you innovate are design problems Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Recruiters
While I suffer the same predicament, I find it amusing that ask Why can't recruiters read?. A common assumption is that users do not read when trying to accomplish a task. Whenever they contact me w/ Leonardo job or a J2EE job, I remind myself that these users are motivated by incentives to find candidates. Unfortunately, that mixes with their nearly complete lack of familiarity with terms that we take for granted. You could mine that opportunity and build an app that aggregates jobs and candidates, then maps skills. That might look like a wizard to an uninformed recruiter, and it would be a big relief to people like us. I hope this helps. On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 12:55 PM, W Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, is this Will Evans, the unknown voice asked. Yes, it is, who is this? This is Sarah X from CTR, Clueless Technical Resources, and we had an opportunity that we think might be a great fit for you. Really - do tell? We have a great opportunity for a 3 month contract as a J2EE Architect for a Fortune 500 company in Des Moines, Iowa. Excellent - you do realize that I have never coded java before, I am moving to DC on Saturday...and don't travel for short term contract work... Can I ask you what your rate is Um... a three month contract 1000 miles from where I live doing something I have never done for a big evil multinational that destroys labor unions while not offering health care benefits to it's employeescan I get back to you on that? -- Why can't recruiters read? I know I have had a resume posted on Monster since about 2003, and I do update it every 6 months or so even though I have never gotten a job from monster - but what really burns my goat is that I very clearly say: 1. I have done IA and IxD work for a really long time 2. I have no interest in relocating for short term contracts 3. how much I cost Yet they never read that. I want to put together a list of all the Good not evil recruiting firms that actually know the difference between an interaction designer, information architect, and UI engineer - at least knows enough to know we aren't Java or .Net engineers. Post back to me recruiters that are great -on either side of the hiring equation. It might be nice to have a list of places to go that get us -- ~ will Where you innovate, how you innovate, and what you innovate are design problems Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help -- Jay A. Morgan Information Architect. Business man. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
