Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

[Jonathan Moules]

Once you've got any completed fonts, it may be worth contributing them 
to the Open Font Library: https://fontlibrary.org/


It already has a number of fonts that you may wish to draw from: 
https://fontlibrary.org/en/search?category=dingbat= (reinventing 
the wheel and all that) (and I learnt today that these are called 
"dingbats").


Cheers,

Jonathan

On 2020-07-24 01:36, Nyall Dawson wrote:

On Wed, 13 May 2020 at 23:38, Jody Garnett  wrote:

This discussion starts to get into the value, it is a lot of work to gather up 
these original or alternate sources ... both for end users migrating to open 
source, and for OSGeo projects to do on their own.

I think this would be a great group project.

Brett has recently compiled a summary of these fonts and symbols here:
https://github.com/Saijin-Naib/ESRI-Fonts-Cheat-Sheets

What I think we should aim for is an equivalent of the "Liberation"
font package, which implements freely licensed equivalents of the
standard Windows font packages (Arial, Times New Roman, etc), with
identical font metrics and similar styling so that they can be used
effectively as a drop-in replacement.

What would be the next step to move forward with this and approach
osgeo for funding?

Kind regards,
Nyall


On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 3:44 AM Brad Hards  wrote:

I have no idea what is in the map fonts (or even what an ESRI map font is), but if 
you're looking for the symbology for DNC and VMAP, (which sound vaguely like: ESRI NIMA 
DNC LN, ESRI NIMA DNC PT, ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN, ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT) its 
probably based on some variant of the NGA GeoSym stuff - MIL-HDBK-857A and 
MIL-DTL-89045/A

If you're prepared to deal with converting CGM to whatever that font thing is, 
you can download the definitions from the NGA GWG Portrayal Working Group at 
https://gwg.nga.mil/pfg_documents.php (expect a cert warning)

The ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers and some of those MilSym / MilMod things might be 
MIL-STD-2525 (aka STANAG APP-6) symbology. Not usually treated as a font 
though

Brad

-Original Message-
From: Discuss  On Behalf Of Nyall Dawson
Sent: Tuesday, 12 May 2020 3:46 PM
To: Even Rouault 
Cc: OSGeo Discussions 
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

On Wed, 6 May 2020 at 01:13, Even Rouault  wrote:


for my understanding, and hopefully help others, I assume the issue is that you 
have a style definition where there are tuples of (font_identifier, 
symbol_identifier_in_the_font) to define the styling of layers with point 
geometries, right ?

Partially, but the "bigger picture" is that there's just no alternative freely 
available version of many of these symbol graphics themselves. That's the blocker that 
I've encountered.


If that's only the former, then assuming there would be N open fonts already 
covering the whole set of ESRI symbology fonts (unlikely), one could possibly 
create a mapping between each tuple of (ESRI_font_id, ESRI_symbol_id) to 
(OPEN_font_id, OPEN_symbol_id). If the later, then you need a complete 
replacement for each proprietary font.

It's the later.


How many symbols / fonts are we discussing about ?

There's about 73 fonts total (see list below, may not be complete), which 
average about 100 icons apiece.

ESRI AMFM Electric
ESRI AMFM Gas
ESRI AMFM Sewer
ESRI AMFM Water
ESRI ArcPad
ESRI Arrowhead
ESRI Business
ESRI Cartography
ESRI Caves 1
ESRI Caves 2
ESRI Caves 3
ESRI Climate & Precipitation
ESRI Commodities
ESRI Conservation
ESRI Crime Analysis
ESRI Default Marker
ESRI Dimensioning
ESRI Elements
ESRI Enviro Hazard Analysis
ESRI Enviro Hazard Incident
ESRI Enviro Hazard Sites
ESRI Environmental & Icons
ESRI ERS Infrastructures S1
ESRI ERS Operations S1
ESRI Fire Incident NFPA
ESRI Geology AGSO 1
ESRI Geology
ESRI Geology USGS 95-525
ESRI Geometric Symbols
ESRI Hazardous Materials
ESRI Hydrants
ESRI IGL Font16
ESRI IGL Font20
ESRI IGL Font21
ESRI IGL Font22
ESRI IGL Font23
ESRI IGL Font24
ESRI IGL Font25
ESRI Meteorological 01
ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers
ESRI MilMod 01
ESRI MilMod 02
ESRI MilRed 01
ESRI MilSym 01
ESRI MilSym 02
ESRI MilSym 03
ESRI MilSym 04
ESRI MilSym 05
ESRI NIMA City Graphic LN
ESRI NIMA City Graphic PT
ESRI NIMA DNC LN
ESRI NIMA DNC PT
ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN
ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT
ESRI North
ESRI Oil, Gas, & Water
ESRI Ordnance Survey
ESRI Pipeline US 1
ESRI Public1
ESRI SDS 1.95 1
ESRI SDS 1.95 2
ESRI SDS 2.00 1
ESRI SDS 2.00 2
ESRI Shields
ESRI Surveyor
ESRI Telecom
ESRI Transportation & Civic
ESRI US Forestry 1
ESRI US Forestry 2
ESRI US MUTCD 1
ESRI US MUTCD 2
ESRI US MUTCD 3
ESRI Weather
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--
--
Jody Garnett

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

[Jody Garnett]

The PDF is a really “just tell us your idea” rather than  “pretend
everything is a code sprint”  (which was previously the only document with
clear instructions on how to apply for funding).

I am really glad to see this idea go ahead, there are several traditional
reasons for avoiding open source: GeoForAll meets the “lack of educational
materials goal”, a font can help meet the “I have to follow official
cartography goal”, advocacy can help meet the “huh?” confusion :)



On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 4:12 AM Angelos Tzotsos 
wrote:

>
> https://github.com/OSGeo/osgeo/blob/master/board/documents/osgeo_financial_guidance.pdf
>
> On 7/24/20 9:41 AM, Nyall Dawson wrote:
> > On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 at 13:09, Jody Garnett 
> wrote:
> >> Make a proposal to the board if you want to set this up as a cross
> project initiative.
> >>
> >> Marketing board would happy to accept your proposal also (this is a
> barrier to adoption).
> >>
> >> Approach project PSC individually also works.
> >>
> >> There is a PDF on osgeo GitHub on how to do this kind of thing ...
> > Thanks Jody!
> >
> > Have you got a link to this PDF?
> >
> > Nyall
> >
> >> On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 5:36 PM Nyall Dawson 
> wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 13 May 2020 at 23:38, Jody Garnett 
> wrote:
> >>>> This discussion starts to get into the value, it is a lot of work to
> gather up these original or alternate sources ... both for end users
> migrating to open source, and for OSGeo projects to do on their own.
> >>>>
> >>>> I think this would be a great group project.
> >>> Brett has recently compiled a summary of these fonts and symbols here:
> >>> https://github.com/Saijin-Naib/ESRI-Fonts-Cheat-Sheets
> >>>
> >>> What I think we should aim for is an equivalent of the "Liberation"
> >>> font package, which implements freely licensed equivalents of the
> >>> standard Windows font packages (Arial, Times New Roman, etc), with
> >>> identical font metrics and similar styling so that they can be used
> >>> effectively as a drop-in replacement.
> >>>
> >>> What would be the next step to move forward with this and approach
> >>> osgeo for funding?
> >>>
> >>> Kind regards,
> >>> Nyall
> >>>
> >>>> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 3:44 AM Brad Hards 
> wrote:
> >>>>> I have no idea what is in the map fonts (or even what an ESRI map
> font is), but if you're looking for the symbology for DNC and VMAP, (which
> sound vaguely like: ESRI NIMA DNC LN, ESRI NIMA DNC PT, ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2
> LN, ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT) its probably based on some variant of the NGA
> GeoSym stuff - MIL-HDBK-857A and MIL-DTL-89045/A
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you're prepared to deal with converting CGM to whatever that font
> thing is, you can download the definitions from the NGA GWG Portrayal
> Working Group at https://gwg.nga.mil/pfg_documents.php (expect a cert
> warning)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers and some of those MilSym / MilMod things
> might be MIL-STD-2525 (aka STANAG APP-6) symbology. Not usually treated as
> a font though
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Brad
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -Original Message-
> >>>>> From: Discuss  On Behalf Of Nyall
> Dawson
> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 12 May 2020 3:46 PM
> >>>>> To: Even Rouault 
> >>>>> Cc: OSGeo Discussions 
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map
> fonts
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Wed, 6 May 2020 at 01:13, Even Rouault <
> even.roua...@spatialys.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> for my understanding, and hopefully help others, I assume the issue
> is that you have a style definition where there are tuples of
> (font_identifier, symbol_identifier_in_the_font) to define the styling of
> layers with point geometries, right ?
> >>>>> Partially, but the "bigger picture" is that there's just no
> alternative freely available version of many of these symbol graphics
> themselves. That's the blocker that I've encountered.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> If that's only the former, then assuming there would be N open
> fonts already covering the whole set of ESRI symbology fonts (unlikely),
> one could possibly create a mapping between each tuple of (ESRI_font_id,
> ESRI_symbol_id) to (OPEN_f

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

[Angelos Tzotsos]

https://github.com/OSGeo/osgeo/blob/master/board/documents/osgeo_financial_guidance.pdf

On 7/24/20 9:41 AM, Nyall Dawson wrote:

On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 at 13:09, Jody Garnett  wrote:

Make a proposal to the board if you want to set this up as a cross project 
initiative.

Marketing board would happy to accept your proposal also (this is a barrier to 
adoption).

Approach project PSC individually also works.

There is a PDF on osgeo GitHub on how to do this kind of thing ...

Thanks Jody!

Have you got a link to this PDF?

Nyall


On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 5:36 PM Nyall Dawson  wrote:

On Wed, 13 May 2020 at 23:38, Jody Garnett  wrote:

This discussion starts to get into the value, it is a lot of work to gather up 
these original or alternate sources ... both for end users migrating to open 
source, and for OSGeo projects to do on their own.

I think this would be a great group project.

Brett has recently compiled a summary of these fonts and symbols here:
https://github.com/Saijin-Naib/ESRI-Fonts-Cheat-Sheets

What I think we should aim for is an equivalent of the "Liberation"
font package, which implements freely licensed equivalents of the
standard Windows font packages (Arial, Times New Roman, etc), with
identical font metrics and similar styling so that they can be used
effectively as a drop-in replacement.

What would be the next step to move forward with this and approach
osgeo for funding?

Kind regards,
Nyall


On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 3:44 AM Brad Hards  wrote:

I have no idea what is in the map fonts (or even what an ESRI map font is), but if 
you're looking for the symbology for DNC and VMAP, (which sound vaguely like: ESRI NIMA 
DNC LN, ESRI NIMA DNC PT, ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN, ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT) its 
probably based on some variant of the NGA GeoSym stuff - MIL-HDBK-857A and 
MIL-DTL-89045/A

If you're prepared to deal with converting CGM to whatever that font thing is, 
you can download the definitions from the NGA GWG Portrayal Working Group at 
https://gwg.nga.mil/pfg_documents.php (expect a cert warning)

The ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers and some of those MilSym / MilMod things might be 
MIL-STD-2525 (aka STANAG APP-6) symbology. Not usually treated as a font 
though

Brad

-Original Message-
From: Discuss  On Behalf Of Nyall Dawson
Sent: Tuesday, 12 May 2020 3:46 PM
To: Even Rouault 
Cc: OSGeo Discussions 
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

On Wed, 6 May 2020 at 01:13, Even Rouault  wrote:


for my understanding, and hopefully help others, I assume the issue is that you 
have a style definition where there are tuples of (font_identifier, 
symbol_identifier_in_the_font) to define the styling of layers with point 
geometries, right ?

Partially, but the "bigger picture" is that there's just no alternative freely 
available version of many of these symbol graphics themselves. That's the blocker that 
I've encountered.


If that's only the former, then assuming there would be N open fonts already 
covering the whole set of ESRI symbology fonts (unlikely), one could possibly 
create a mapping between each tuple of (ESRI_font_id, ESRI_symbol_id) to 
(OPEN_font_id, OPEN_symbol_id). If the later, then you need a complete 
replacement for each proprietary font.

It's the later.


How many symbols / fonts are we discussing about ?

There's about 73 fonts total (see list below, may not be complete), which 
average about 100 icons apiece.

ESRI AMFM Electric
ESRI AMFM Gas
ESRI AMFM Sewer
ESRI AMFM Water
ESRI ArcPad
ESRI Arrowhead
ESRI Business
ESRI Cartography
ESRI Caves 1
ESRI Caves 2
ESRI Caves 3
ESRI Climate & Precipitation
ESRI Commodities
ESRI Conservation
ESRI Crime Analysis
ESRI Default Marker
ESRI Dimensioning
ESRI Elements
ESRI Enviro Hazard Analysis
ESRI Enviro Hazard Incident
ESRI Enviro Hazard Sites
ESRI Environmental & Icons
ESRI ERS Infrastructures S1
ESRI ERS Operations S1
ESRI Fire Incident NFPA
ESRI Geology AGSO 1
ESRI Geology
ESRI Geology USGS 95-525
ESRI Geometric Symbols
ESRI Hazardous Materials
ESRI Hydrants
ESRI IGL Font16
ESRI IGL Font20
ESRI IGL Font21
ESRI IGL Font22
ESRI IGL Font23
ESRI IGL Font24
ESRI IGL Font25
ESRI Meteorological 01
ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers
ESRI MilMod 01
ESRI MilMod 02
ESRI MilRed 01
ESRI MilSym 01
ESRI MilSym 02
ESRI MilSym 03
ESRI MilSym 04
ESRI MilSym 05
ESRI NIMA City Graphic LN
ESRI NIMA City Graphic PT
ESRI NIMA DNC LN
ESRI NIMA DNC PT
ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN
ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT
ESRI North
ESRI Oil, Gas, & Water
ESRI Ordnance Survey
ESRI Pipeline US 1
ESRI Public1
ESRI SDS 1.95 1
ESRI SDS 1.95 2
ESRI SDS 2.00 1
ESRI SDS 2.00 2
ESRI Shields
ESRI Surveyor
ESRI Telecom
ESRI Transportation & Civic
ESRI US Forestry 1
ESRI US Forestry 2
ESRI US MUTCD 1
ESRI US MUTCD 2
ESRI US MUTCD 3
ESRI Weather
___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

[Nyall Dawson]

On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 at 13:09, Jody Garnett  wrote:
>
> Make a proposal to the board if you want to set this up as a cross project 
> initiative.
>
> Marketing board would happy to accept your proposal also (this is a barrier 
> to adoption).
>
> Approach project PSC individually also works.
>
> There is a PDF on osgeo GitHub on how to do this kind of thing ...

Thanks Jody!

Have you got a link to this PDF?

Nyall

>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 5:36 PM Nyall Dawson  wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 13 May 2020 at 23:38, Jody Garnett  wrote:
>> >
>> > This discussion starts to get into the value, it is a lot of work to 
>> > gather up these original or alternate sources ... both for end users 
>> > migrating to open source, and for OSGeo projects to do on their own.
>> >
>> > I think this would be a great group project.
>>
>> Brett has recently compiled a summary of these fonts and symbols here:
>> https://github.com/Saijin-Naib/ESRI-Fonts-Cheat-Sheets
>>
>> What I think we should aim for is an equivalent of the "Liberation"
>> font package, which implements freely licensed equivalents of the
>> standard Windows font packages (Arial, Times New Roman, etc), with
>> identical font metrics and similar styling so that they can be used
>> effectively as a drop-in replacement.
>>
>> What would be the next step to move forward with this and approach
>> osgeo for funding?
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Nyall
>>
>> >
>> > On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 3:44 AM Brad Hards  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I have no idea what is in the map fonts (or even what an ESRI map font 
>> >> is), but if you're looking for the symbology for DNC and VMAP, (which 
>> >> sound vaguely like: ESRI NIMA DNC LN, ESRI NIMA DNC PT, ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 
>> >> LN, ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT) its probably based on some variant of the NGA 
>> >> GeoSym stuff - MIL-HDBK-857A and MIL-DTL-89045/A
>> >>
>> >> If you're prepared to deal with converting CGM to whatever that font 
>> >> thing is, you can download the definitions from the NGA GWG Portrayal 
>> >> Working Group at https://gwg.nga.mil/pfg_documents.php (expect a cert 
>> >> warning)
>> >>
>> >> The ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers and some of those MilSym / MilMod things 
>> >> might be MIL-STD-2525 (aka STANAG APP-6) symbology. Not usually treated 
>> >> as a font though
>> >>
>> >> Brad
>> >>
>> >> -Original Message-
>> >> From: Discuss  On Behalf Of Nyall Dawson
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, 12 May 2020 3:46 PM
>> >> To: Even Rouault 
>> >> Cc: OSGeo Discussions 
>> >> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, 6 May 2020 at 01:13, Even Rouault  
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > for my understanding, and hopefully help others, I assume the issue is 
>> >> > that you have a style definition where there are tuples of 
>> >> > (font_identifier, symbol_identifier_in_the_font) to define the styling 
>> >> > of layers with point geometries, right ?
>> >>
>> >> Partially, but the "bigger picture" is that there's just no alternative 
>> >> freely available version of many of these symbol graphics themselves. 
>> >> That's the blocker that I've encountered.
>> >>
>> >> > If that's only the former, then assuming there would be N open fonts 
>> >> > already covering the whole set of ESRI symbology fonts (unlikely), one 
>> >> > could possibly create a mapping between each tuple of (ESRI_font_id, 
>> >> > ESRI_symbol_id) to (OPEN_font_id, OPEN_symbol_id). If the later, then 
>> >> > you need a complete replacement for each proprietary font.
>> >>
>> >> It's the later.
>> >>
>> >> > How many symbols / fonts are we discussing about ?
>> >>
>> >> There's about 73 fonts total (see list below, may not be complete), which 
>> >> average about 100 icons apiece.
>> >>
>> >> ESRI AMFM Electric
>> >> ESRI AMFM Gas
>> >> ESRI AMFM Sewer
>> >> ESRI AMFM Water
>> >> ESRI ArcPad
>> >> ESRI Arrowhead
>> >> ESRI Business
>> >> ESRI Cartography
>> >> ESRI Caves 1
>> >> ESRI Caves 2
>> >> ESRI Caves 3
>> >> ESRI Climate 

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

[Jody Garnett]

Make a proposal to the board if you want to set this up as a cross project
initiative.

Marketing board would happy to accept your proposal also (this is a barrier
to adoption).

Approach project PSC individually also works.

There is a PDF on osgeo GitHub on how to do this kind of thing ...

On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 5:36 PM Nyall Dawson  wrote:

> On Wed, 13 May 2020 at 23:38, Jody Garnett  wrote:
> >
> > This discussion starts to get into the value, it is a lot of work to
> gather up these original or alternate sources ... both for end users
> migrating to open source, and for OSGeo projects to do on their own.
> >
> > I think this would be a great group project.
>
> Brett has recently compiled a summary of these fonts and symbols here:
> https://github.com/Saijin-Naib/ESRI-Fonts-Cheat-Sheets
>
> What I think we should aim for is an equivalent of the "Liberation"
> font package, which implements freely licensed equivalents of the
> standard Windows font packages (Arial, Times New Roman, etc), with
> identical font metrics and similar styling so that they can be used
> effectively as a drop-in replacement.
>
> What would be the next step to move forward with this and approach
> osgeo for funding?
>
> Kind regards,
> Nyall
>
> >
> > On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 3:44 AM Brad Hards  wrote:
> >>
> >> I have no idea what is in the map fonts (or even what an ESRI map font
> is), but if you're looking for the symbology for DNC and VMAP, (which sound
> vaguely like: ESRI NIMA DNC LN, ESRI NIMA DNC PT, ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN,
> ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT) its probably based on some variant of the NGA GeoSym
> stuff - MIL-HDBK-857A and MIL-DTL-89045/A
> >>
> >> If you're prepared to deal with converting CGM to whatever that font
> thing is, you can download the definitions from the NGA GWG Portrayal
> Working Group at https://gwg.nga.mil/pfg_documents.php (expect a cert
> warning)
> >>
> >> The ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers and some of those MilSym / MilMod things
> might be MIL-STD-2525 (aka STANAG APP-6) symbology. Not usually treated as
> a font though
> >>
> >> Brad
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Discuss  On Behalf Of Nyall
> Dawson
> >> Sent: Tuesday, 12 May 2020 3:46 PM
> >> To: Even Rouault 
> >> Cc: OSGeo Discussions 
> >> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts
> >>
> >> On Wed, 6 May 2020 at 01:13, Even Rouault 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> > for my understanding, and hopefully help others, I assume the issue
> is that you have a style definition where there are tuples of
> (font_identifier, symbol_identifier_in_the_font) to define the styling of
> layers with point geometries, right ?
> >>
> >> Partially, but the "bigger picture" is that there's just no alternative
> freely available version of many of these symbol graphics themselves.
> That's the blocker that I've encountered.
> >>
> >> > If that's only the former, then assuming there would be N open fonts
> already covering the whole set of ESRI symbology fonts (unlikely), one
> could possibly create a mapping between each tuple of (ESRI_font_id,
> ESRI_symbol_id) to (OPEN_font_id, OPEN_symbol_id). If the later, then you
> need a complete replacement for each proprietary font.
> >>
> >> It's the later.
> >>
> >> > How many symbols / fonts are we discussing about ?
> >>
> >> There's about 73 fonts total (see list below, may not be complete),
> which average about 100 icons apiece.
> >>
> >> ESRI AMFM Electric
> >> ESRI AMFM Gas
> >> ESRI AMFM Sewer
> >> ESRI AMFM Water
> >> ESRI ArcPad
> >> ESRI Arrowhead
> >> ESRI Business
> >> ESRI Cartography
> >> ESRI Caves 1
> >> ESRI Caves 2
> >> ESRI Caves 3
> >> ESRI Climate & Precipitation
> >> ESRI Commodities
> >> ESRI Conservation
> >> ESRI Crime Analysis
> >> ESRI Default Marker
> >> ESRI Dimensioning
> >> ESRI Elements
> >> ESRI Enviro Hazard Analysis
> >> ESRI Enviro Hazard Incident
> >> ESRI Enviro Hazard Sites
> >> ESRI Environmental & Icons
> >> ESRI ERS Infrastructures S1
> >> ESRI ERS Operations S1
> >> ESRI Fire Incident NFPA
> >> ESRI Geology AGSO 1
> >> ESRI Geology
> >> ESRI Geology USGS 95-525
> >> ESRI Geometric Symbols
> >> ESRI Hazardous Materials
> >> ESRI Hydrants
> >> ESRI IGL Font16
> >> ESRI IGL Font20
> 

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

[Nyall Dawson]

On Wed, 13 May 2020 at 23:38, Jody Garnett  wrote:
>
> This discussion starts to get into the value, it is a lot of work to gather 
> up these original or alternate sources ... both for end users migrating to 
> open source, and for OSGeo projects to do on their own.
>
> I think this would be a great group project.

Brett has recently compiled a summary of these fonts and symbols here:
https://github.com/Saijin-Naib/ESRI-Fonts-Cheat-Sheets

What I think we should aim for is an equivalent of the "Liberation"
font package, which implements freely licensed equivalents of the
standard Windows font packages (Arial, Times New Roman, etc), with
identical font metrics and similar styling so that they can be used
effectively as a drop-in replacement.

What would be the next step to move forward with this and approach
osgeo for funding?

Kind regards,
Nyall

>
> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 3:44 AM Brad Hards  wrote:
>>
>> I have no idea what is in the map fonts (or even what an ESRI map font is), 
>> but if you're looking for the symbology for DNC and VMAP, (which sound 
>> vaguely like: ESRI NIMA DNC LN, ESRI NIMA DNC PT, ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN, ESRI 
>> NIMA VMAP1&2 PT) its probably based on some variant of the NGA GeoSym stuff 
>> - MIL-HDBK-857A and MIL-DTL-89045/A
>>
>> If you're prepared to deal with converting CGM to whatever that font thing 
>> is, you can download the definitions from the NGA GWG Portrayal Working 
>> Group at https://gwg.nga.mil/pfg_documents.php (expect a cert warning)
>>
>> The ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers and some of those MilSym / MilMod things might 
>> be MIL-STD-2525 (aka STANAG APP-6) symbology. Not usually treated as a font 
>> though
>>
>> Brad
>>
>> -Original Message-----
>> From: Discuss  On Behalf Of Nyall Dawson
>> Sent: Tuesday, 12 May 2020 3:46 PM
>> To: Even Rouault 
>> Cc: OSGeo Discussions 
>> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts
>>
>> On Wed, 6 May 2020 at 01:13, Even Rouault  wrote:
>>
>> > for my understanding, and hopefully help others, I assume the issue is 
>> > that you have a style definition where there are tuples of 
>> > (font_identifier, symbol_identifier_in_the_font) to define the styling of 
>> > layers with point geometries, right ?
>>
>> Partially, but the "bigger picture" is that there's just no alternative 
>> freely available version of many of these symbol graphics themselves. That's 
>> the blocker that I've encountered.
>>
>> > If that's only the former, then assuming there would be N open fonts 
>> > already covering the whole set of ESRI symbology fonts (unlikely), one 
>> > could possibly create a mapping between each tuple of (ESRI_font_id, 
>> > ESRI_symbol_id) to (OPEN_font_id, OPEN_symbol_id). If the later, then you 
>> > need a complete replacement for each proprietary font.
>>
>> It's the later.
>>
>> > How many symbols / fonts are we discussing about ?
>>
>> There's about 73 fonts total (see list below, may not be complete), which 
>> average about 100 icons apiece.
>>
>> ESRI AMFM Electric
>> ESRI AMFM Gas
>> ESRI AMFM Sewer
>> ESRI AMFM Water
>> ESRI ArcPad
>> ESRI Arrowhead
>> ESRI Business
>> ESRI Cartography
>> ESRI Caves 1
>> ESRI Caves 2
>> ESRI Caves 3
>> ESRI Climate & Precipitation
>> ESRI Commodities
>> ESRI Conservation
>> ESRI Crime Analysis
>> ESRI Default Marker
>> ESRI Dimensioning
>> ESRI Elements
>> ESRI Enviro Hazard Analysis
>> ESRI Enviro Hazard Incident
>> ESRI Enviro Hazard Sites
>> ESRI Environmental & Icons
>> ESRI ERS Infrastructures S1
>> ESRI ERS Operations S1
>> ESRI Fire Incident NFPA
>> ESRI Geology AGSO 1
>> ESRI Geology
>> ESRI Geology USGS 95-525
>> ESRI Geometric Symbols
>> ESRI Hazardous Materials
>> ESRI Hydrants
>> ESRI IGL Font16
>> ESRI IGL Font20
>> ESRI IGL Font21
>> ESRI IGL Font22
>> ESRI IGL Font23
>> ESRI IGL Font24
>> ESRI IGL Font25
>> ESRI Meteorological 01
>> ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers
>> ESRI MilMod 01
>> ESRI MilMod 02
>> ESRI MilRed 01
>> ESRI MilSym 01
>> ESRI MilSym 02
>> ESRI MilSym 03
>> ESRI MilSym 04
>> ESRI MilSym 05
>> ESRI NIMA City Graphic LN
>> ESRI NIMA City Graphic PT
>> ESRI NIMA DNC LN
>> ESRI NIMA DNC PT
>> ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN
>> ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT
>> ESRI North
>> ESRI Oil, Gas, & Water
>> ESRI Ordnance Survey
>> 

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

[Brad Hards]

I’d suggest treating -2525 as a completely separate problem. It’s a huge “can 
of worms” that could derail the rest of it.

 

Brad

 

From: Alexandre Neto  
Sent: Thursday, 14 May 2020 1:46 AM
To: Jody Garnett 
Cc: Brad Hards ; OSGeo Discussions 

Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

 

Regarding the mil2525 symbols there's this boundless plugin where there we a 
bunch of svg symbols

 

https://github.com/planetfederal/qgis-milstd2525-plugin/tree/master/milstd2525/svg

 

But that's only the tip of the iceberg...

 

Best regards,

Alexandre Neto

 

A quarta, 13/05/2020, 14:40, Jody Garnett mailto:jody.garn...@gmail.com> > escreveu:

This discussion starts to get into the value, it is a lot of work to gather up 
these original or alternate sources ... both for end users migrating to open 
source, and for OSGeo projects to do on their own. 

 

I think this would be a great group project.  

 

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 3:44 AM Brad Hards mailto:br...@frogmouth.net> > wrote:

I have no idea what is in the map fonts (or even what an ESRI map font is), but 
if you're looking for the symbology for DNC and VMAP, (which sound vaguely 
like: ESRI NIMA DNC LN, ESRI NIMA DNC PT, ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN, ESRI NIMA 
VMAP1&2 PT) its probably based on some variant of the NGA GeoSym stuff - 
MIL-HDBK-857A and MIL-DTL-89045/A

If you're prepared to deal with converting CGM to whatever that font thing is, 
you can download the definitions from the NGA GWG Portrayal Working Group at 
https://gwg.nga.mil/pfg_documents.php (expect a cert warning)

The ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers and some of those MilSym / MilMod things might be 
MIL-STD-2525 (aka STANAG APP-6) symbology. Not usually treated as a font 
though

Brad

-Original Message-
From: Discuss mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org> > On Behalf Of Nyall Dawson
Sent: Tuesday, 12 May 2020 3:46 PM
To: Even Rouault mailto:even.roua...@spatialys.com> >
Cc: OSGeo Discussions mailto:discuss@lists.osgeo.org> 
>
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

On Wed, 6 May 2020 at 01:13, Even Rouault mailto:even.roua...@spatialys.com> > wrote:

> for my understanding, and hopefully help others, I assume the issue is that 
> you have a style definition where there are tuples of (font_identifier, 
> symbol_identifier_in_the_font) to define the styling of layers with point 
> geometries, right ?

Partially, but the "bigger picture" is that there's just no alternative freely 
available version of many of these symbol graphics themselves. That's the 
blocker that I've encountered.

> If that's only the former, then assuming there would be N open fonts already 
> covering the whole set of ESRI symbology fonts (unlikely), one could possibly 
> create a mapping between each tuple of (ESRI_font_id, ESRI_symbol_id) to 
> (OPEN_font_id, OPEN_symbol_id). If the later, then you need a complete 
> replacement for each proprietary font.

It's the later.

> How many symbols / fonts are we discussing about ?

There's about 73 fonts total (see list below, may not be complete), which 
average about 100 icons apiece.

ESRI AMFM Electric
ESRI AMFM Gas
ESRI AMFM Sewer
ESRI AMFM Water
ESRI ArcPad
ESRI Arrowhead
ESRI Business
ESRI Cartography
ESRI Caves 1
ESRI Caves 2
ESRI Caves 3
ESRI Climate & Precipitation
ESRI Commodities
ESRI Conservation
ESRI Crime Analysis
ESRI Default Marker
ESRI Dimensioning
ESRI Elements
ESRI Enviro Hazard Analysis
ESRI Enviro Hazard Incident
ESRI Enviro Hazard Sites
ESRI Environmental & Icons
ESRI ERS Infrastructures S1
ESRI ERS Operations S1
ESRI Fire Incident NFPA
ESRI Geology AGSO 1
ESRI Geology
ESRI Geology USGS 95-525
ESRI Geometric Symbols
ESRI Hazardous Materials
ESRI Hydrants
ESRI IGL Font16
ESRI IGL Font20
ESRI IGL Font21
ESRI IGL Font22
ESRI IGL Font23
ESRI IGL Font24
ESRI IGL Font25
ESRI Meteorological 01
ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers
ESRI MilMod 01
ESRI MilMod 02
ESRI MilRed 01
ESRI MilSym 01
ESRI MilSym 02
ESRI MilSym 03
ESRI MilSym 04
ESRI MilSym 05
ESRI NIMA City Graphic LN
ESRI NIMA City Graphic PT
ESRI NIMA DNC LN
ESRI NIMA DNC PT
ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN
ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT
ESRI North
ESRI Oil, Gas, & Water
ESRI Ordnance Survey
ESRI Pipeline US 1
ESRI Public1
ESRI SDS 1.95 1
ESRI SDS 1.95 2
ESRI SDS 2.00 1
ESRI SDS 2.00 2
ESRI Shields
ESRI Surveyor
ESRI Telecom
ESRI Transportation & Civic
ESRI US Forestry 1
ESRI US Forestry 2
ESRI US MUTCD 1
ESRI US MUTCD 2
ESRI US MUTCD 3
ESRI Weather
___
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Discuss@lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Discuss@lists.osgeo.org> 
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

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Discuss@lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Discuss@lists.osgeo.org> 
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

-- 

--

Jody Garnett

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

[Alexandre Neto]

Regarding the mil2525 symbols there's this boundless plugin where there we
a bunch of svg symbols

https://github.com/planetfederal/qgis-milstd2525-plugin/tree/master/milstd2525/svg

But that's only the tip of the iceberg...

Best regards,
Alexandre Neto

A quarta, 13/05/2020, 14:40, Jody Garnett  escreveu:

> This discussion starts to get into the value, it is a lot of work to
> gather up these original or alternate sources ... both for end users
> migrating to open source, and for OSGeo projects to do on their own.
>
> I think this would be a great group project.
>
> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 3:44 AM Brad Hards  wrote:
>
>> I have no idea what is in the map fonts (or even what an ESRI map font
>> is), but if you're looking for the symbology for DNC and VMAP, (which sound
>> vaguely like: ESRI NIMA DNC LN, ESRI NIMA DNC PT, ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN,
>> ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT) its probably based on some variant of the NGA GeoSym
>> stuff - MIL-HDBK-857A and MIL-DTL-89045/A
>>
>> If you're prepared to deal with converting CGM to whatever that font
>> thing is, you can download the definitions from the NGA GWG Portrayal
>> Working Group at https://gwg.nga.mil/pfg_documents.php (expect a cert
>> warning)
>>
>> The ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers and some of those MilSym / MilMod things
>> might be MIL-STD-2525 (aka STANAG APP-6) symbology. Not usually treated as
>> a font though
>>
>> Brad
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Discuss  On Behalf Of Nyall Dawson
>> Sent: Tuesday, 12 May 2020 3:46 PM
>> To: Even Rouault 
>> Cc: OSGeo Discussions 
>> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts
>>
>> On Wed, 6 May 2020 at 01:13, Even Rouault 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > for my understanding, and hopefully help others, I assume the issue is
>> that you have a style definition where there are tuples of
>> (font_identifier, symbol_identifier_in_the_font) to define the styling of
>> layers with point geometries, right ?
>>
>> Partially, but the "bigger picture" is that there's just no alternative
>> freely available version of many of these symbol graphics themselves.
>> That's the blocker that I've encountered.
>>
>> > If that's only the former, then assuming there would be N open fonts
>> already covering the whole set of ESRI symbology fonts (unlikely), one
>> could possibly create a mapping between each tuple of (ESRI_font_id,
>> ESRI_symbol_id) to (OPEN_font_id, OPEN_symbol_id). If the later, then you
>> need a complete replacement for each proprietary font.
>>
>> It's the later.
>>
>> > How many symbols / fonts are we discussing about ?
>>
>> There's about 73 fonts total (see list below, may not be complete), which
>> average about 100 icons apiece.
>>
>> ESRI AMFM Electric
>> ESRI AMFM Gas
>> ESRI AMFM Sewer
>> ESRI AMFM Water
>> ESRI ArcPad
>> ESRI Arrowhead
>> ESRI Business
>> ESRI Cartography
>> ESRI Caves 1
>> ESRI Caves 2
>> ESRI Caves 3
>> ESRI Climate & Precipitation
>> ESRI Commodities
>> ESRI Conservation
>> ESRI Crime Analysis
>> ESRI Default Marker
>> ESRI Dimensioning
>> ESRI Elements
>> ESRI Enviro Hazard Analysis
>> ESRI Enviro Hazard Incident
>> ESRI Enviro Hazard Sites
>> ESRI Environmental & Icons
>> ESRI ERS Infrastructures S1
>> ESRI ERS Operations S1
>> ESRI Fire Incident NFPA
>> ESRI Geology AGSO 1
>> ESRI Geology
>> ESRI Geology USGS 95-525
>> ESRI Geometric Symbols
>> ESRI Hazardous Materials
>> ESRI Hydrants
>> ESRI IGL Font16
>> ESRI IGL Font20
>> ESRI IGL Font21
>> ESRI IGL Font22
>> ESRI IGL Font23
>> ESRI IGL Font24
>> ESRI IGL Font25
>> ESRI Meteorological 01
>> ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers
>> ESRI MilMod 01
>> ESRI MilMod 02
>> ESRI MilRed 01
>> ESRI MilSym 01
>> ESRI MilSym 02
>> ESRI MilSym 03
>> ESRI MilSym 04
>> ESRI MilSym 05
>> ESRI NIMA City Graphic LN
>> ESRI NIMA City Graphic PT
>> ESRI NIMA DNC LN
>> ESRI NIMA DNC PT
>> ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN
>> ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT
>> ESRI North
>> ESRI Oil, Gas, & Water
>> ESRI Ordnance Survey
>> ESRI Pipeline US 1
>> ESRI Public1
>> ESRI SDS 1.95 1
>> ESRI SDS 1.95 2
>> ESRI SDS 2.00 1
>> ESRI SDS 2.00 2
>> ESRI Shields
>> ESRI Surveyor
>> ESRI Telecom
>> ESRI Transportation & Civic
>> ESRI US Forestry 1
>> ESRI US Forestry 2
>> ESRI US MUTCD 1
>> ESRI US MUTCD 2
>> ESRI US MUTCD 3
>> ESRI Weather
>> ___
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
>> ___
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
> --
> --
> Jody Garnett
> ___
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

[Jody Garnett]

This discussion starts to get into the value, it is a lot of work to gather
up these original or alternate sources ... both for end users migrating to
open source, and for OSGeo projects to do on their own.

I think this would be a great group project.

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 3:44 AM Brad Hards  wrote:

> I have no idea what is in the map fonts (or even what an ESRI map font
> is), but if you're looking for the symbology for DNC and VMAP, (which sound
> vaguely like: ESRI NIMA DNC LN, ESRI NIMA DNC PT, ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN,
> ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT) its probably based on some variant of the NGA GeoSym
> stuff - MIL-HDBK-857A and MIL-DTL-89045/A
>
> If you're prepared to deal with converting CGM to whatever that font thing
> is, you can download the definitions from the NGA GWG Portrayal Working
> Group at https://gwg.nga.mil/pfg_documents.php (expect a cert warning)
>
> The ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers and some of those MilSym / MilMod things might
> be MIL-STD-2525 (aka STANAG APP-6) symbology. Not usually treated as a font
> though
>
> Brad
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Discuss  On Behalf Of Nyall Dawson
> Sent: Tuesday, 12 May 2020 3:46 PM
> To: Even Rouault 
> Cc: OSGeo Discussions 
> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts
>
> On Wed, 6 May 2020 at 01:13, Even Rouault 
> wrote:
>
> > for my understanding, and hopefully help others, I assume the issue is
> that you have a style definition where there are tuples of
> (font_identifier, symbol_identifier_in_the_font) to define the styling of
> layers with point geometries, right ?
>
> Partially, but the "bigger picture" is that there's just no alternative
> freely available version of many of these symbol graphics themselves.
> That's the blocker that I've encountered.
>
> > If that's only the former, then assuming there would be N open fonts
> already covering the whole set of ESRI symbology fonts (unlikely), one
> could possibly create a mapping between each tuple of (ESRI_font_id,
> ESRI_symbol_id) to (OPEN_font_id, OPEN_symbol_id). If the later, then you
> need a complete replacement for each proprietary font.
>
> It's the later.
>
> > How many symbols / fonts are we discussing about ?
>
> There's about 73 fonts total (see list below, may not be complete), which
> average about 100 icons apiece.
>
> ESRI AMFM Electric
> ESRI AMFM Gas
> ESRI AMFM Sewer
> ESRI AMFM Water
> ESRI ArcPad
> ESRI Arrowhead
> ESRI Business
> ESRI Cartography
> ESRI Caves 1
> ESRI Caves 2
> ESRI Caves 3
> ESRI Climate & Precipitation
> ESRI Commodities
> ESRI Conservation
> ESRI Crime Analysis
> ESRI Default Marker
> ESRI Dimensioning
> ESRI Elements
> ESRI Enviro Hazard Analysis
> ESRI Enviro Hazard Incident
> ESRI Enviro Hazard Sites
> ESRI Environmental & Icons
> ESRI ERS Infrastructures S1
> ESRI ERS Operations S1
> ESRI Fire Incident NFPA
> ESRI Geology AGSO 1
> ESRI Geology
> ESRI Geology USGS 95-525
> ESRI Geometric Symbols
> ESRI Hazardous Materials
> ESRI Hydrants
> ESRI IGL Font16
> ESRI IGL Font20
> ESRI IGL Font21
> ESRI IGL Font22
> ESRI IGL Font23
> ESRI IGL Font24
> ESRI IGL Font25
> ESRI Meteorological 01
> ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers
> ESRI MilMod 01
> ESRI MilMod 02
> ESRI MilRed 01
> ESRI MilSym 01
> ESRI MilSym 02
> ESRI MilSym 03
> ESRI MilSym 04
> ESRI MilSym 05
> ESRI NIMA City Graphic LN
> ESRI NIMA City Graphic PT
> ESRI NIMA DNC LN
> ESRI NIMA DNC PT
> ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN
> ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT
> ESRI North
> ESRI Oil, Gas, & Water
> ESRI Ordnance Survey
> ESRI Pipeline US 1
> ESRI Public1
> ESRI SDS 1.95 1
> ESRI SDS 1.95 2
> ESRI SDS 2.00 1
> ESRI SDS 2.00 2
> ESRI Shields
> ESRI Surveyor
> ESRI Telecom
> ESRI Transportation & Civic
> ESRI US Forestry 1
> ESRI US Forestry 2
> ESRI US MUTCD 1
> ESRI US MUTCD 2
> ESRI US MUTCD 3
> ESRI Weather
> ___
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
> ___
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

-- 
--
Jody Garnett
___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

[Brad Hards]

I have no idea what is in the map fonts (or even what an ESRI map font is), but 
if you're looking for the symbology for DNC and VMAP, (which sound vaguely 
like: ESRI NIMA DNC LN, ESRI NIMA DNC PT, ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN, ESRI NIMA 
VMAP1&2 PT) its probably based on some variant of the NGA GeoSym stuff - 
MIL-HDBK-857A and MIL-DTL-89045/A

If you're prepared to deal with converting CGM to whatever that font thing is, 
you can download the definitions from the NGA GWG Portrayal Working Group at 
https://gwg.nga.mil/pfg_documents.php (expect a cert warning)

The ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers and some of those MilSym / MilMod things might be 
MIL-STD-2525 (aka STANAG APP-6) symbology. Not usually treated as a font 
though

Brad

-Original Message-
From: Discuss  On Behalf Of Nyall Dawson
Sent: Tuesday, 12 May 2020 3:46 PM
To: Even Rouault 
Cc: OSGeo Discussions 
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

On Wed, 6 May 2020 at 01:13, Even Rouault  wrote:

> for my understanding, and hopefully help others, I assume the issue is that 
> you have a style definition where there are tuples of (font_identifier, 
> symbol_identifier_in_the_font) to define the styling of layers with point 
> geometries, right ?

Partially, but the "bigger picture" is that there's just no alternative freely 
available version of many of these symbol graphics themselves. That's the 
blocker that I've encountered.

> If that's only the former, then assuming there would be N open fonts already 
> covering the whole set of ESRI symbology fonts (unlikely), one could possibly 
> create a mapping between each tuple of (ESRI_font_id, ESRI_symbol_id) to 
> (OPEN_font_id, OPEN_symbol_id). If the later, then you need a complete 
> replacement for each proprietary font.

It's the later.

> How many symbols / fonts are we discussing about ?

There's about 73 fonts total (see list below, may not be complete), which 
average about 100 icons apiece.

ESRI AMFM Electric
ESRI AMFM Gas
ESRI AMFM Sewer
ESRI AMFM Water
ESRI ArcPad
ESRI Arrowhead
ESRI Business
ESRI Cartography
ESRI Caves 1
ESRI Caves 2
ESRI Caves 3
ESRI Climate & Precipitation
ESRI Commodities
ESRI Conservation
ESRI Crime Analysis
ESRI Default Marker
ESRI Dimensioning
ESRI Elements
ESRI Enviro Hazard Analysis
ESRI Enviro Hazard Incident
ESRI Enviro Hazard Sites
ESRI Environmental & Icons
ESRI ERS Infrastructures S1
ESRI ERS Operations S1
ESRI Fire Incident NFPA
ESRI Geology AGSO 1
ESRI Geology
ESRI Geology USGS 95-525
ESRI Geometric Symbols
ESRI Hazardous Materials
ESRI Hydrants
ESRI IGL Font16
ESRI IGL Font20
ESRI IGL Font21
ESRI IGL Font22
ESRI IGL Font23
ESRI IGL Font24
ESRI IGL Font25
ESRI Meteorological 01
ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers
ESRI MilMod 01
ESRI MilMod 02
ESRI MilRed 01
ESRI MilSym 01
ESRI MilSym 02
ESRI MilSym 03
ESRI MilSym 04
ESRI MilSym 05
ESRI NIMA City Graphic LN
ESRI NIMA City Graphic PT
ESRI NIMA DNC LN
ESRI NIMA DNC PT
ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN
ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT
ESRI North
ESRI Oil, Gas, & Water
ESRI Ordnance Survey
ESRI Pipeline US 1
ESRI Public1
ESRI SDS 1.95 1
ESRI SDS 1.95 2
ESRI SDS 2.00 1
ESRI SDS 2.00 2
ESRI Shields
ESRI Surveyor
ESRI Telecom
ESRI Transportation & Civic
ESRI US Forestry 1
ESRI US Forestry 2
ESRI US MUTCD 1
ESRI US MUTCD 2
ESRI US MUTCD 3
ESRI Weather
___
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Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

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https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

[Jody Garnett]

Note this is quite the legal trap, many governments have contributed to
these fonts, and then are not in a position to use the result with open
source software such as GeoServer (even though we have TTF symbol support).

Specifically for the US fonts above it may be possible to source the
original marks directly from the departments involved via public domain,
and then as a citizen contribute marks. You can see gvsig working on this
kind of issue here
.

--
Jody Garnett


On Mon, 11 May 2020 at 22:46, Nyall Dawson  wrote:

> On Wed, 6 May 2020 at 01:13, Even Rouault 
> wrote:
>
> > for my understanding, and hopefully help others, I assume the issue is
> that you have a style definition where there are tuples of
> (font_identifier, symbol_identifier_in_the_font) to define the styling of
> layers with point geometries, right ?
>
> Partially, but the "bigger picture" is that there's just no
> alternative freely available version of many of these symbol graphics
> themselves. That's the blocker that I've encountered.
>
> > If that's only the former, then assuming there would be N open fonts
> already covering the whole set of ESRI symbology fonts (unlikely), one
> could possibly create a mapping between each tuple of (ESRI_font_id,
> ESRI_symbol_id) to (OPEN_font_id, OPEN_symbol_id). If the later, then you
> need a complete replacement for each proprietary font.
>
> It's the later.
>
> > How many symbols / fonts are we discussing about ?
>
> There's about 73 fonts total (see list below, may not be complete),
> which average about 100 icons apiece.
>
> ESRI AMFM Electric
> ESRI AMFM Gas
> ESRI AMFM Sewer
> ESRI AMFM Water
> ESRI ArcPad
> ESRI Arrowhead
> ESRI Business
> ESRI Cartography
> ESRI Caves 1
> ESRI Caves 2
> ESRI Caves 3
> ESRI Climate & Precipitation
> ESRI Commodities
> ESRI Conservation
> ESRI Crime Analysis
> ESRI Default Marker
> ESRI Dimensioning
> ESRI Elements
> ESRI Enviro Hazard Analysis
> ESRI Enviro Hazard Incident
> ESRI Enviro Hazard Sites
> ESRI Environmental & Icons
> ESRI ERS Infrastructures S1
> ESRI ERS Operations S1
> ESRI Fire Incident NFPA
> ESRI Geology AGSO 1
> ESRI Geology
> ESRI Geology USGS 95-525
> ESRI Geometric Symbols
> ESRI Hazardous Materials
> ESRI Hydrants
> ESRI IGL Font16
> ESRI IGL Font20
> ESRI IGL Font21
> ESRI IGL Font22
> ESRI IGL Font23
> ESRI IGL Font24
> ESRI IGL Font25
> ESRI Meteorological 01
> ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers
> ESRI MilMod 01
> ESRI MilMod 02
> ESRI MilRed 01
> ESRI MilSym 01
> ESRI MilSym 02
> ESRI MilSym 03
> ESRI MilSym 04
> ESRI MilSym 05
> ESRI NIMA City Graphic LN
> ESRI NIMA City Graphic PT
> ESRI NIMA DNC LN
> ESRI NIMA DNC PT
> ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN
> ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT
> ESRI North
> ESRI Oil, Gas, & Water
> ESRI Ordnance Survey
> ESRI Pipeline US 1
> ESRI Public1
> ESRI SDS 1.95 1
> ESRI SDS 1.95 2
> ESRI SDS 2.00 1
> ESRI SDS 2.00 2
> ESRI Shields
> ESRI Surveyor
> ESRI Telecom
> ESRI Transportation & Civic
> ESRI US Forestry 1
> ESRI US Forestry 2
> ESRI US MUTCD 1
> ESRI US MUTCD 2
> ESRI US MUTCD 3
> ESRI Weather
> ___
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

[Nyall Dawson]

On Wed, 6 May 2020 at 01:13, Even Rouault  wrote:

> for my understanding, and hopefully help others, I assume the issue is that 
> you have a style definition where there are tuples of (font_identifier, 
> symbol_identifier_in_the_font) to define the styling of layers with point 
> geometries, right ?

Partially, but the "bigger picture" is that there's just no
alternative freely available version of many of these symbol graphics
themselves. That's the blocker that I've encountered.

> If that's only the former, then assuming there would be N open fonts already 
> covering the whole set of ESRI symbology fonts (unlikely), one could possibly 
> create a mapping between each tuple of (ESRI_font_id, ESRI_symbol_id) to 
> (OPEN_font_id, OPEN_symbol_id). If the later, then you need a complete 
> replacement for each proprietary font.

It's the later.

> How many symbols / fonts are we discussing about ?

There's about 73 fonts total (see list below, may not be complete),
which average about 100 icons apiece.

ESRI AMFM Electric
ESRI AMFM Gas
ESRI AMFM Sewer
ESRI AMFM Water
ESRI ArcPad
ESRI Arrowhead
ESRI Business
ESRI Cartography
ESRI Caves 1
ESRI Caves 2
ESRI Caves 3
ESRI Climate & Precipitation
ESRI Commodities
ESRI Conservation
ESRI Crime Analysis
ESRI Default Marker
ESRI Dimensioning
ESRI Elements
ESRI Enviro Hazard Analysis
ESRI Enviro Hazard Incident
ESRI Enviro Hazard Sites
ESRI Environmental & Icons
ESRI ERS Infrastructures S1
ESRI ERS Operations S1
ESRI Fire Incident NFPA
ESRI Geology AGSO 1
ESRI Geology
ESRI Geology USGS 95-525
ESRI Geometric Symbols
ESRI Hazardous Materials
ESRI Hydrants
ESRI IGL Font16
ESRI IGL Font20
ESRI IGL Font21
ESRI IGL Font22
ESRI IGL Font23
ESRI IGL Font24
ESRI IGL Font25
ESRI Meteorological 01
ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers
ESRI MilMod 01
ESRI MilMod 02
ESRI MilRed 01
ESRI MilSym 01
ESRI MilSym 02
ESRI MilSym 03
ESRI MilSym 04
ESRI MilSym 05
ESRI NIMA City Graphic LN
ESRI NIMA City Graphic PT
ESRI NIMA DNC LN
ESRI NIMA DNC PT
ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN
ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT
ESRI North
ESRI Oil, Gas, & Water
ESRI Ordnance Survey
ESRI Pipeline US 1
ESRI Public1
ESRI SDS 1.95 1
ESRI SDS 1.95 2
ESRI SDS 2.00 1
ESRI SDS 2.00 2
ESRI Shields
ESRI Surveyor
ESRI Telecom
ESRI Transportation & Civic
ESRI US Forestry 1
ESRI US Forestry 2
ESRI US MUTCD 1
ESRI US MUTCD 2
ESRI US MUTCD 3
ESRI Weather
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

[Even Rouault]

Nyall,

for my understanding, and hopefully help others, I assume the issue is that you 
have a style 
definition where there are tuples of (font_identifier, 
symbol_identifier_in_the_font) to 
define the styling of layers with point geometries, right ?
Or possibly some dataset layers whose fields also are characters which are the 
symbol_identifier_in_the_font (that is each feature points to a different 
symbol), but the 
whole layer field uses a single font ?

If that's only the former, then assuming there would be N open fonts already 
covering the 
whole set of ESRI symbology fonts (unlikely), one could possibly create a 
mapping between 
each tuple of (ESRI_font_id, ESRI_symbol_id) to (OPEN_font_id, OPEN_symbol_id). 
If the 
later, then you need a complete replacement for each proprietary font.

How many symbols / fonts are we discussing about ?

Even

> 
> One common road block which I find I am encountering when
> organisations are wanting to transition to open source software is
> that they are dependant on the set of ESRI map symbology fonts. While
> there is a large number of quality open-licensed map icon sets
> available, there are currently none which are "drop-in" replacements
> for these ESRI font symbol sets.
> 
> Has anyone else run into this issue? Any suggestions for approaches to
> overcome this? Would there be any interest in OSGEO funding creation
> of openly licensed alternatives to these fonts?
> 
> Cheers,
> Nyall
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

[Jody Garnett]

I think that is a good idea, and something our marketing committee could
very carefully do.

On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 11:39 PM Nyall Dawson  wrote:

> Hi list!
>
> One common road block which I find I am encountering when
> organisations are wanting to transition to open source software is
> that they are dependant on the set of ESRI map symbology fonts. While
> there is a large number of quality open-licensed map icon sets
> available, there are currently none which are "drop-in" replacements
> for these ESRI font symbol sets.
>
> Has anyone else run into this issue? Any suggestions for approaches to
> overcome this? Would there be any interest in OSGEO funding creation
> of openly licensed alternatives to these fonts?
>
> Cheers,
> Nyall
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> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free Workshop Tickets @ FOSS4G

[Mark Iliffe]

Hi Jody,

Thanks for the background too - I think there needs to be more coordination
between the various OSGeo projects - especially considering the enhanced
touch that we've been working on regarding accommodation - I think this can
be something for future conferences to consider, especially if following
our model of engagement (linking accommodation, experiences together etc).

With submitting a workshop - I doubt there is an easy answer here - hence
the verbose email! At the start, we never promised a free ticket to
workshop presenters... but if there is an issue for workshop presenters,
I'd really like to stress that we'll make this right. Our mission and motto
with this FOSS4G is *"to leave no-one behind"* and we will deliver on this
mission, and that includes those that are presenting, giving workshops etc.

We've focused on the Travel Grant Programme this year as a mechanism for
increasing attendance at FOSS4G, part of this has been to extend free at
the point of provision accommodation for TGP attendees - given the right
circumstances this can include accommodation at FOSS4G - it will not be the
Ritz, but it would suffice. Part of our sponsorship raising has been to
directly support further attendance at FOSS4G through targeting underserved
communities, part of this criteria has been to focus on presenters through
this programme too. To support attendees, we need them to flag that they
need assistance!

I'd like to really pose the question to the community, regarding the
content of future workshops. In scanning our workshop content, we are
supporting some workshop presenters through the TGP, whereas most are being
supported by their companies - balancing this is going to be a question for
others - we've made our bed to an effect, and I hope that the community
at-large can work with us to mitigate any challenge that could/would arise.

Thanks all,

Mark



On 19 June 2018 at 20:02, Jody Garnett  wrote:

> Thanks for the background Mark.
>
> Keep in mind that that OSGeo projects and committees also have a budget,
> many indicated that they would assist their members with foss4g travel
> and/or accommodation. For context OSGeo does ask that each project officer
> attend the AGM (or send a community member to speak on their behalf).
>
> I am one of the individuals who submitted a workshop in the hopes of
> earning a conference ticket. I have enough notice that I will be able to
> sort out the gap. I would like to acknowledge that earlier in my career
> finding a way to earn a foss4g conference ticket was a way for me to attend
> foss4g events (run a workshop, save up half the year, sofa surf based on a
> generosity, etc...). For the FOSS4G 2013 event you mentioned I joined the
> video team.  I recognize that this was a case was I was giving up my time,
> since I had more time then money.
>
> Personally it takes me five days to prep a 1/2 day workshop. One reason I
> would like to continue to support instructors is so they take that prep
> time, but perhaps we could find a balance where financial support is more
> directly tied to preparation. Do something like hire an designer to help
> with diagrams if initial course milestone is met etc...
> --
> Jody Garnett
>
>
> On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 at 12:31, Mark Iliffe  wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Firstly… we’re super excited to be welcoming you all to Dar es Salaam
>> this August… it’s going to be amazing!!
>>
>> Secondly, at the end of last week, there was a very good discussion on
>> Twitter about free tickets at FOSS4G [1] - there are numerous threads that
>> span from here with good comments for offering free tickets to workshop
>> presenters and keynotes and against.
>>
>> I’d like to explain why we made the choice not to offer free tickets to
>> workshop presenters.
>>
>> When we were putting together the workshop program, we were overwhelmed
>> by the quality and quantity of submissions received by the call. We
>> received 73 submissions and accepted 27. This was incredibly difficult as
>> we wanted to widen the scope of content within the workshop program (aka…
>> not have the same as last year) and balance new presenters with established
>> ones. Everything was a compromise to establish this program, but on balance
>> I believe (and I hope you as the community will agree), that we got the
>> balance right.
>>
>> We have the stated aim in our proposal and since that we want to use
>> FOSS4G in Dar es Salaam to widen participation of many under-represented
>> groups within our community - as a global community, we need to be as
>> diverse as the world. Part of the economic impetus within the DLOC is to
>> widen access and participation - this means working out how to achieve
>> that. Bluntly, if we want to have a conference with the same content and
>> people, we shouldn’t be holding this in Dar es Salaam.
>>
>> As many, (but not all), workshop presenters are from companies sponsoring
>> their travel to FOSS4G (offering workshops that directly relate to 

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free Workshop Tickets @ FOSS4G

[Jody Garnett]

Thanks for the background Mark.

Keep in mind that that OSGeo projects and committees also have a budget,
many indicated that they would assist their members with foss4g travel
and/or accommodation. For context OSGeo does ask that each project officer
attend the AGM (or send a community member to speak on their behalf).

I am one of the individuals who submitted a workshop in the hopes of
earning a conference ticket. I have enough notice that I will be able to
sort out the gap. I would like to acknowledge that earlier in my career
finding a way to earn a foss4g conference ticket was a way for me to attend
foss4g events (run a workshop, save up half the year, sofa surf based on a
generosity, etc...). For the FOSS4G 2013 event you mentioned I joined the
video team.  I recognize that this was a case was I was giving up my time,
since I had more time then money.

Personally it takes me five days to prep a 1/2 day workshop. One reason I
would like to continue to support instructors is so they take that prep
time, but perhaps we could find a balance where financial support is more
directly tied to preparation. Do something like hire an designer to help
with diagrams if initial course milestone is met etc...
--
Jody Garnett


On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 at 12:31, Mark Iliffe  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Firstly… we’re super excited to be welcoming you all to Dar es Salaam this
> August… it’s going to be amazing!!
>
> Secondly, at the end of last week, there was a very good discussion on
> Twitter about free tickets at FOSS4G [1] - there are numerous threads that
> span from here with good comments for offering free tickets to workshop
> presenters and keynotes and against.
>
> I’d like to explain why we made the choice not to offer free tickets to
> workshop presenters.
>
> When we were putting together the workshop program, we were overwhelmed by
> the quality and quantity of submissions received by the call. We received
> 73 submissions and accepted 27. This was incredibly difficult as we wanted
> to widen the scope of content within the workshop program (aka… not have
> the same as last year) and balance new presenters with established ones.
> Everything was a compromise to establish this program, but on balance I
> believe (and I hope you as the community will agree), that we got the
> balance right.
>
> We have the stated aim in our proposal and since that we want to use
> FOSS4G in Dar es Salaam to widen participation of many under-represented
> groups within our community - as a global community, we need to be as
> diverse as the world. Part of the economic impetus within the DLOC is to
> widen access and participation - this means working out how to achieve
> that. Bluntly, if we want to have a conference with the same content and
> people, we shouldn’t be holding this in Dar es Salaam.
>
> As many, (but not all), workshop presenters are from companies sponsoring
> their travel to FOSS4G (offering workshops that directly relate to services
> offered by their employer), the drive to widen participation, with previous
> conferences not offering free workshop tickets (Nottingham in 2013 for
> example) and no stated promise to offer free tickets for presenters, I led
> my committee and we resolved to not provide free tickets to presenters.
>
> However, potentially this is wrong - and I’d like to stress as a
> volunteer(and unpaid!) conference chair/organiser, we’re capable of getting
> things wrong… but we/I want to ensure that it’s put right.
>
> In effect, there is no profit from the workshop tickets, effectively, this
> pays for the conference venue and the food and drink for the workshop days.
> The cost of this is roughly $75. We’re charging $75 - this is cheaper than
> previous workshops! To offer a free ticket to workshop presenters, we would
> have charged $100 and reclaimed the cost of the workshop presenter ticket
> from there. We charged as low as we could, because we recognised that for
> some attending FOSS4G, $25 can be a very large difference… but for
> others... not at all (hence the donation button for the Travel Grant
> Programme!). But, to widen participation, we need to be as inclusive as
> possible and that means making hard choices.
>
> We’re being inclusive by raising the number of TGP attendees from 10 in
> Boston to 51 for Dar. As the DLOC, we’ve booked the YMCA for our TGP
> attendees - this means that the TGP this year can support micro-grants,
> paying $250 to support the bus travel, food, and drink of a community
> member in Uganda that ordinarily would not be able to get to the conference
> in theory on their doorstep - because of this, every little helps, saving
> $100 here, $300 there etc. This may sound like hyperbole, but it’s a direct
> and concrete way that FOSS4G is widening access, in both economically
> disadvantaged and gendered situations.
>
> Ultimately: If you are a workshop presenter at FOSS4G this year and are
> unable to get your ticket/want a free ticket, please get in touch 

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free Workshop Tickets @ FOSS4G

[María Arias de Reyna]

Dear Mark,

Your effort for this FOSS4G is impressive!

In my opinion, changing previous rules and experimenting with different
approaches is a good thing. If we see that the outcome is not what we
expected, we can always rollback for following years. But what if the
outcome is better than ever? Which, I think, will be the case. There will
be a lot of new faces this year, I'm sure of that. And new faces means new
ideas.

On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 9:31 PM, Mark Iliffe  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Firstly… we’re super excited to be welcoming you all to Dar es Salaam this
> August… it’s going to be amazing!!
>
> Secondly, at the end of last week, there was a very good discussion on
> Twitter about free tickets at FOSS4G [1] - there are numerous threads that
> span from here with good comments for offering free tickets to workshop
> presenters and keynotes and against.
>
> I’d like to explain why we made the choice not to offer free tickets to
> workshop presenters.
>
> When we were putting together the workshop program, we were overwhelmed by
> the quality and quantity of submissions received by the call. We received
> 73 submissions and accepted 27. This was incredibly difficult as we wanted
> to widen the scope of content within the workshop program (aka… not have
> the same as last year) and balance new presenters with established ones.
> Everything was a compromise to establish this program, but on balance I
> believe (and I hope you as the community will agree), that we got the
> balance right.
>
> We have the stated aim in our proposal and since that we want to use
> FOSS4G in Dar es Salaam to widen participation of many under-represented
> groups within our community - as a global community, we need to be as
> diverse as the world. Part of the economic impetus within the DLOC is to
> widen access and participation - this means working out how to achieve
> that. Bluntly, if we want to have a conference with the same content and
> people, we shouldn’t be holding this in Dar es Salaam.
>
> As many, (but not all), workshop presenters are from companies sponsoring
> their travel to FOSS4G (offering workshops that directly relate to services
> offered by their employer), the drive to widen participation, with previous
> conferences not offering free workshop tickets (Nottingham in 2013 for
> example) and no stated promise to offer free tickets for presenters, I led
> my committee and we resolved to not provide free tickets to presenters.
>
> However, potentially this is wrong - and I’d like to stress as a
> volunteer(and unpaid!) conference chair/organiser, we’re capable of getting
> things wrong… but we/I want to ensure that it’s put right.
>
> In effect, there is no profit from the workshop tickets, effectively, this
> pays for the conference venue and the food and drink for the workshop days.
> The cost of this is roughly $75. We’re charging $75 - this is cheaper than
> previous workshops! To offer a free ticket to workshop presenters, we would
> have charged $100 and reclaimed the cost of the workshop presenter ticket
> from there. We charged as low as we could, because we recognised that for
> some attending FOSS4G, $25 can be a very large difference… but for
> others... not at all (hence the donation button for the Travel Grant
> Programme!). But, to widen participation, we need to be as inclusive as
> possible and that means making hard choices.
>
> We’re being inclusive by raising the number of TGP attendees from 10 in
> Boston to 51 for Dar. As the DLOC, we’ve booked the YMCA for our TGP
> attendees - this means that the TGP this year can support micro-grants,
> paying $250 to support the bus travel, food, and drink of a community
> member in Uganda that ordinarily would not be able to get to the conference
> in theory on their doorstep - because of this, every little helps, saving
> $100 here, $300 there etc. This may sound like hyperbole, but it’s a direct
> and concrete way that FOSS4G is widening access, in both economically
> disadvantaged and gendered situations.
>
> Ultimately: If you are a workshop presenter at FOSS4G this year and are
> unable to get your ticket/want a free ticket, please get in touch with me - 
> *we’ll
> sort you out and make it right.* If this has given the impression that we
> are taking advantage of our workshop presenters - *it is not the
> intention, nor the case and we’re sorry*.
>
> Going forward, I’d recommend there be a further discussion within the
> conference selection process on whether workshop presenters, keynotes etc
> are given free passes and clarify whether it should be one way or the other
> - but that is not for me or my committee to decide! It’s 70 days to go to
> the best FOSS4G yet… and we’ve got a conference to put on!
>
> Thanks to all of you who make this community great :-)
>
> Best,
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [1] https://twitter.com/sarasomewhere/status/1006304174332661760
>
> ___
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> 

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free course about Geographic Information Systems applied to Municipality Management

[Dirk Frigne]

Great!

The more reuse we can promote, the better.
When using the courses in a educational environment, it would be good to
evaluate the material and leave suggestions for improvement.
The Idea of GiCases is also the idea of *collaborative learning* and
*collaborative creation*. Values which are already tested and used in an
(open source) community context.

Looking forward to your material,
all the best,
Dirk.

On 07-12-17 12:26, Mario Carrera wrote:
> 
> Thank you Dirk! That's good news. We think that it will be very useful
> for them.
> 
> We plan to publish one video per week during December excepting the last
> week, and then two videos per week.
> 
> And the course is extendable, if there's a new feature that we consider
> important to add we would record a new video.
> 
> Let us know about other relevant modules that you consider and we study
> them.
> 
> Best regards,
>    Mario
> 
> 
> 
> El 06/12/17 a las 15:12, Dirk Frigne escribió:
>> Mario,
>>
>> This initiative looks great!
>> I will certainly take a more closer look at it.
>>
>> I am currently involved in a Erasmus+ Programme European Project about
>> Case bases learning [1].
>>
>> Together with the University of Leuven (KUL [2]), I am also involved in
>> *cocreating* some free courses for implementing GIS based solutions for
>> eGovernment. One about "INSPIRE Advanced" which explains how INSPIRE can
>> be implemented and used withine Government processes, and one about how
>> to implement the "Agile" methodology in your project team to improve the
>> success rate of eGovernment projects.
>>
>> I will distribute your course material into the GiCases Project
>> communication and keep you informed about other relevant modules that
>> can be used to improve 'OSGeo-Capacity' building, and as I think they
>> can be usefull in the context of this project.
>>
>>
>> All the best,
>> Dirk
>>
>>
>>
>> [1] http://www.gicases.eu/the-project/
>> [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KU_Leuven
>>
>> On 05-12-17 12:10, Mario Carrera wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> we have launched a free course about Geographic Information Systems
>>> applied to Municipality Management through several video-tutorials.
>>>
>>> At this post you can see the list of topics and the first module, that
>>> is available already in [1]
>>>
>>> At the next weeks we will publish the other modules, that we will
>>> include at this playlist: [2]
>>>
>>> The first two modules are theoretical, about differences between GIS and
>>> CAD, and reference systems, very important to understand the rest of the
>>> course. From the third one, the modules will be practical, and the
>>> cartography will be available for each video.
>>>
>>> In addition, when the course is finishing it will be possible to get the
>>> official certificate given by the gvSIG Association, where it will be
>>> obligatory to send a complete exercise.
>>>
>>> All the information about registration, dates, certification, where to
>>> send doubts... is available at the frequent questions section of the
>>> first post [1].
>>>
>>> We hope that it's useful for you.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>     Mario
>>>
>>> [1]
>>> https://blog.gvsig.org/2017/12/04/free-course-about-geographic-information-systems-applied-to-municipality-management-list-of-topics-and-1st-module-differences-between-sig-and-cad/
>>>  
>>>
>>> [2]
>>> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdoUYGiBhEtUr-APrUkncNVpLtjbfe5OX 
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> *Mario Carrera*
>>>
>>> Training, Language and Communication Manager. gvSIG Association
>>>
>>> Responsable de Formación, Internacionalización y Difusión. Asociación gvSIG
>>>
>>> http://www.gvsig.com 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Discuss mailing list
>>> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>
> 
> -- 
> 
> *Mario Carrera*
> 
> Training, Language and Communication Manager. gvSIG Association
> 
> Responsable de Formación, Internacionalización y Difusión. Asociación gvSIG
> 
> http://www.gvsig.com 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> 

-- 
Yours sincerely,


ir. Dirk Frigne
CEO @geosparc

Geosparc n.v.
Brugsesteenweg 587
B-9030 Ghent
Tel: +32 9 236 60 18
GSM: +32 495 508 799

http://www.geomajas.org
http://www.geosparc.com

@DFrigne
be.linkedin.com/in/frigne

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free course about Geographic Information Systems applied to Municipality Management

[Mario Carrera]

Thank you Dirk! That's good news. We think that it will be very useful 
for them.


We plan to publish one video per week during December excepting the last 
week, and then two videos per week.


And the course is extendable, if there's a new feature that we consider 
important to add we would record a new video.


Let us know about other relevant modules that you consider and we study 
them.


Best regards,
   Mario



El 06/12/17 a las 15:12, Dirk Frigne escribió:

Mario,

This initiative looks great!
I will certainly take a more closer look at it.

I am currently involved in a Erasmus+ Programme European Project about
Case bases learning [1].

Together with the University of Leuven (KUL [2]), I am also involved in
*cocreating* some free courses for implementing GIS based solutions for
eGovernment. One about "INSPIRE Advanced" which explains how INSPIRE can
be implemented and used withine Government processes, and one about how
to implement the "Agile" methodology in your project team to improve the
success rate of eGovernment projects.

I will distribute your course material into the GiCases Project
communication and keep you informed about other relevant modules that
can be used to improve 'OSGeo-Capacity' building, and as I think they
can be usefull in the context of this project.


All the best,
Dirk



[1] http://www.gicases.eu/the-project/
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KU_Leuven

On 05-12-17 12:10, Mario Carrera wrote:

Hi all,

we have launched a free course about Geographic Information Systems
applied to Municipality Management through several video-tutorials.

At this post you can see the list of topics and the first module, that
is available already in [1]

At the next weeks we will publish the other modules, that we will
include at this playlist: [2]

The first two modules are theoretical, about differences between GIS and
CAD, and reference systems, very important to understand the rest of the
course. From the third one, the modules will be practical, and the
cartography will be available for each video.

In addition, when the course is finishing it will be possible to get the
official certificate given by the gvSIG Association, where it will be
obligatory to send a complete exercise.

All the information about registration, dates, certification, where to
send doubts... is available at the frequent questions section of the
first post [1].

We hope that it's useful for you.

Best regards,
     Mario

[1]
https://blog.gvsig.org/2017/12/04/free-course-about-geographic-information-systems-applied-to-municipality-management-list-of-topics-and-1st-module-differences-between-sig-and-cad/

[2]
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdoUYGiBhEtUr-APrUkncNVpLtjbfe5OX


--

*Mario Carrera*

Training, Language and Communication Manager. gvSIG Association

Responsable de Formación, Internacionalización y Difusión. Asociación gvSIG

http://www.gvsig.com 



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--

*Mario Carrera*

Training, Language and Communication Manager. gvSIG Association

Responsable de Formación, Internacionalización y Difusión. Asociación gvSIG

http://www.gvsig.com 

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free course about Geographic Information Systems applied to Municipality Management

[Dirk Frigne]

Mario,

This initiative looks great!
I will certainly take a more closer look at it.

I am currently involved in a Erasmus+ Programme European Project about
Case bases learning [1].

Together with the University of Leuven (KUL [2]), I am also involved in
*cocreating* some free courses for implementing GIS based solutions for
eGovernment. One about "INSPIRE Advanced" which explains how INSPIRE can
be implemented and used withine Government processes, and one about how
to implement the "Agile" methodology in your project team to improve the
success rate of eGovernment projects.

I will distribute your course material into the GiCases Project
communication and keep you informed about other relevant modules that
can be used to improve 'OSGeo-Capacity' building, and as I think they
can be usefull in the context of this project.


All the best,
Dirk



[1] http://www.gicases.eu/the-project/
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KU_Leuven

On 05-12-17 12:10, Mario Carrera wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> we have launched a free course about Geographic Information Systems
> applied to Municipality Management through several video-tutorials.
> 
> At this post you can see the list of topics and the first module, that
> is available already in [1]
> 
> At the next weeks we will publish the other modules, that we will
> include at this playlist: [2]
> 
> The first two modules are theoretical, about differences between GIS and
> CAD, and reference systems, very important to understand the rest of the
> course. From the third one, the modules will be practical, and the
> cartography will be available for each video.
> 
> In addition, when the course is finishing it will be possible to get the
> official certificate given by the gvSIG Association, where it will be
> obligatory to send a complete exercise.
> 
> All the information about registration, dates, certification, where to
> send doubts... is available at the frequent questions section of the
> first post [1].
> 
> We hope that it's useful for you.
> 
> Best regards,
>     Mario
> 
> [1]
> https://blog.gvsig.org/2017/12/04/free-course-about-geographic-information-systems-applied-to-municipality-management-list-of-topics-and-1st-module-differences-between-sig-and-cad/
>  
> 
> [2]
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdoUYGiBhEtUr-APrUkncNVpLtjbfe5OX 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> *Mario Carrera*
> 
> Training, Language and Communication Manager. gvSIG Association
> 
> Responsable de Formación, Internacionalización y Difusión. Asociación gvSIG
> 
> http://www.gvsig.com 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
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> 

-- 
Yours sincerely,


ir. Dirk Frigne
CEO @geosparc

Geosparc n.v.
Brugsesteenweg 587
B-9030 Ghent
Tel: +32 9 236 60 18
GSM: +32 495 508 799

http://www.geomajas.org
http://www.geosparc.com

@DFrigne
be.linkedin.com/in/frigne

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free and Open Source Geographic Information Technologies Conference in South America

[Marc Vloemans]

Dear Sergio,



Vriendelijke groet,
Marc Vloemans


> Op 22 jul. 2016 om 14:54 heeft SERGIO ACOSTAYLARA 
> <sergio.acostayl...@mtop.gub.uy> het volgende geschreven:
> 
> I need to contact the OSGeo Marketing Committee​ as it is explained below.
> Thank you,
> 
> Sergio Acosta y Lara
> Departamento de Geomática
> Dirección Nacional de Topografía
> Ministerio de Transporte y Obras Públicas
> URUGUAY
> De: Discuss <discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org> en nombre de SERGIO ACOSTAYLARA 
> <sergio.acostayl...@mtop.gub.uy>
> Enviado: viernes, 15 de julio de 2016 12:27
> Para: Suchith Anand; geofor...@lists.osgeo.org; discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> Asunto: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free and Open Source Geographic Information 
> Technologies Conference in South America
>  
> I guess I will be able. But I'll need more details from the OSGeo Marketing 
> Committee...
> 
> Sergio Acosta y Lara
> Departamento de Geomática
> Dirección Nacional de Topografía
> Ministerio de Transporte y Obras Públicas
> URUGUAY
> De: Suchith Anand <suchith.an...@nottingham.ac.uk>
> Enviado: martes, 12 de julio de 2016 16:14
> Para: SERGIO ACOSTAYLARA; geofor...@lists.osgeo.org; discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> Asunto: RE: Free and Open Source Geographic Information Technologies 
> Conference in South America
>  
> Hi Sergio,
> 
> Thank you for the updates on the Free and Open Source Geographic Information 
> Technologies Conference in  South America and great to hear that you will be 
> presenting Geo4All. It is a great opportunity to spread Geo4All ideas to more 
> universities and educational institutes in the region.
> 
> We will promote this through our channels in other communities also (ICA, 
> ISPRS etc) for wider impact and participation.Please also send a summary 
> report with photos of the conference for the Geo4All newsletter. 
> 
> Will you be able to hand out OSGeoLive DVDs at the event for the 
> participants? If so, may i request you to contact the OSGeo marketing 
> committee and they should be able to guide and help you make the necessary 
> arrangements. It will help spread the message more widely and create more 
> impact.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Suchith
>  
> From: Discuss [discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] on behalf of SERGIO 
> ACOSTAYLARA [sergio.acostayl...@mtop.gub.uy]
> Sent: 12 July 2016 6:04 PM
> To: geofor...@lists.osgeo.org; discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free and Open Source Geographic Information 
> Technologies Conference in South America
> 
> Dear colleagues,
> Maybe you already know that the Uruguayan gvSIG Community is organising for 
> late October a Free and Open Source Geographic Information Technologies 
> Conference (http://www.gvsig.com/en/eventos/jornadas-lac/2016) which will be 
> our 4th. Uruguayan gvSIG Conference and the 8th. Latin American and Caribbean 
> gvSIG Conference. It is not exactly a FOSS4G event but almost. It has become 
> a landmark event for the country and the region. I will be presenting 
> GeoForAll in it so as to promote it between Latin American colleagues. It 
> will be really helpful to have the support of the Geo4all network to 
> strengthen this promotion. I'm sure it will be very positive for the success 
> of our Conference as well as for the development of Geo4all. Let me invite 
> all members to this event specially those from Latin America and the 
> Caribbean. It will be great to meet some of you here in Montevideo.
> Thanks for your time,
> 
> Sergio Acosta y Lara
> Departamento de Geomática
> Dirección Nacional de Topografía
> Ministerio de Transporte y Obras Públicas
> URUGUAY
> This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee
> and may contain confidential information. If you have received this
> message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. 
> 
> Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this
> message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the
> author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the
> University of Nottingham.
> 
> This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an
> attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your
> computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email
> communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as
> permitted by UK legislation.
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free and Open Source Geographic Information Technologies Conference in South America

[SERGIO ACOSTAYLARA]

I need to contact the OSGeo Marketing Committee​ as it is explained below.

Thank you,


Sergio Acosta y Lara
Departamento de Geomática
Dirección Nacional de Topografía
Ministerio de Transporte y Obras Públicas
URUGUAY

De: Discuss <discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org> en nombre de SERGIO ACOSTAYLARA 
<sergio.acostayl...@mtop.gub.uy>
Enviado: viernes, 15 de julio de 2016 12:27
Para: Suchith Anand; geofor...@lists.osgeo.org; discuss@lists.osgeo.org
Asunto: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free and Open Source Geographic Information 
Technologies Conference in South America


I guess I will be able. But I'll need more details from the OSGeo Marketing 
Committee...


Sergio Acosta y Lara
Departamento de Geomática
Dirección Nacional de Topografía
Ministerio de Transporte y Obras Públicas
URUGUAY

De: Suchith Anand <suchith.an...@nottingham.ac.uk>
Enviado: martes, 12 de julio de 2016 16:14
Para: SERGIO ACOSTAYLARA; geofor...@lists.osgeo.org; discuss@lists.osgeo.org
Asunto: RE: Free and Open Source Geographic Information Technologies Conference 
in South America

Hi Sergio,

Thank you for the updates on the Free and Open Source Geographic Information 
Technologies Conference in  South America and great to hear that you will be 
presenting Geo4All. It is a great opportunity to spread Geo4All ideas to more 
universities and educational institutes in the region.

We will promote this through our channels in other communities also (ICA, ISPRS 
etc) for wider impact and participation.Please also send a summary report with 
photos of the conference for the Geo4All newsletter.

Will you be able to hand out OSGeoLive DVDs at the event for the participants? 
If so, may i request you to contact the OSGeo marketing committee and they 
should be able to guide and help you make the necessary arrangements. It will 
help spread the message more widely and create more impact.

Best wishes,

Suchith


From: Discuss [discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] on behalf of SERGIO ACOSTAYLARA 
[sergio.acostayl...@mtop.gub.uy]
Sent: 12 July 2016 6:04 PM
To: geofor...@lists.osgeo.org; discuss@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free and Open Source Geographic Information 
Technologies Conference in South America


Dear colleagues,
Maybe you already know that the Uruguayan gvSIG Community is organising for 
late October a Free and Open Source Geographic Information Technologies 
Conference (http://www.gvsig.com/en/eventos/jornadas-lac/2016) which will be 
our 4th. Uruguayan gvSIG Conference and the 8th. Latin American and Caribbean 
gvSIG Conference. It is not exactly a FOSS4G event but almost. It has become a 
landmark event for the country and the region. I will be presenting GeoForAll 
in it so as to promote it between Latin American colleagues. It will be really 
helpful to have the support of the Geo4all network to strengthen this 
promotion. I'm sure it will be very positive for the success of our Conference 
as well as for the development of Geo4all. Let me invite all members to this 
event specially those from Latin America and the Caribbean. It will be great to 
meet some of you here in Montevideo.
Thanks for your time,


Sergio Acosta y Lara
Departamento de Geomática
Dirección Nacional de Topografía
Ministerio de Transporte y Obras Públicas
URUGUAY

This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee
and may contain confidential information. If you have received this
message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.

Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this
message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the
author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the
University of Nottingham.

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free and Open Source Geographic Information Technologies Conference in South America

[SERGIO ACOSTAYLARA]

I guess I will be able. But I'll need more details from the OSGeo Marketing 
Committee...


Sergio Acosta y Lara
Departamento de Geomática
Dirección Nacional de Topografía
Ministerio de Transporte y Obras Públicas
URUGUAY

De: Suchith Anand 
Enviado: martes, 12 de julio de 2016 16:14
Para: SERGIO ACOSTAYLARA; geofor...@lists.osgeo.org; discuss@lists.osgeo.org
Asunto: RE: Free and Open Source Geographic Information Technologies Conference 
in South America

Hi Sergio,

Thank you for the updates on the Free and Open Source Geographic Information 
Technologies Conference in  South America and great to hear that you will be 
presenting Geo4All. It is a great opportunity to spread Geo4All ideas to more 
universities and educational institutes in the region.

We will promote this through our channels in other communities also (ICA, ISPRS 
etc) for wider impact and participation.Please also send a summary report with 
photos of the conference for the Geo4All newsletter.

Will you be able to hand out OSGeoLive DVDs at the event for the participants? 
If so, may i request you to contact the OSGeo marketing committee and they 
should be able to guide and help you make the necessary arrangements. It will 
help spread the message more widely and create more impact.

Best wishes,

Suchith


From: Discuss [discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] on behalf of SERGIO ACOSTAYLARA 
[sergio.acostayl...@mtop.gub.uy]
Sent: 12 July 2016 6:04 PM
To: geofor...@lists.osgeo.org; discuss@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free and Open Source Geographic Information 
Technologies Conference in South America


Dear colleagues,
Maybe you already know that the Uruguayan gvSIG Community is organising for 
late October a Free and Open Source Geographic Information Technologies 
Conference (http://www.gvsig.com/en/eventos/jornadas-lac/2016) which will be 
our 4th. Uruguayan gvSIG Conference and the 8th. Latin American and Caribbean 
gvSIG Conference. It is not exactly a FOSS4G event but almost. It has become a 
landmark event for the country and the region. I will be presenting GeoForAll 
in it so as to promote it between Latin American colleagues. It will be really 
helpful to have the support of the Geo4all network to strengthen this 
promotion. I'm sure it will be very positive for the success of our Conference 
as well as for the development of Geo4all. Let me invite all members to this 
event specially those from Latin America and the Caribbean. It will be great to 
meet some of you here in Montevideo.
Thanks for your time,


Sergio Acosta y Lara
Departamento de Geomática
Dirección Nacional de Topografía
Ministerio de Transporte y Obras Públicas
URUGUAY


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee
and may contain confidential information. If you have received this
message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.

Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this
message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the
author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the
University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an
attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your
computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email
communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free and Open Source Geographic Information Technologies Conference in South America

[Edwin Liava'a]

Hi Sergio and Suchith,

Tonnes of thanks for sharing, I have been thinking along the same
avenue in view of one day having a FOSS4G for the Pacific Islands
Region.

It is still work in progress and we persevere to bring more of my
fellow Pacific Islanders to join us in "Geo for All".

Likewise, on the same token my intention is to do a presentation on
GeoForAll during the Pacific Islands GIS & RS User Conference - 28th
to 1st December 2016, and would love to handout OSGeoLive DVDs to
participants during the event.

Am looking forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,

Edwin


On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 5:04 AM, SERGIO ACOSTAYLARA
 wrote:
> Dear colleagues,
> Maybe you already know that the Uruguayan gvSIG Community is organising for
> late October a Free and Open Source Geographic Information Technologies
> Conference (http://www.gvsig.com/en/eventos/jornadas-lac/2016) which will be
> our 4th. Uruguayan gvSIG Conference and the 8th. Latin American and
> Caribbean gvSIG Conference. It is not exactly a FOSS4G event but almost. It
> has become a landmark event for the country and the region. I will be
> presenting GeoForAll in it so as to promote it between Latin American
> colleagues. It will be really helpful to have the support of the Geo4all
> network to strengthen this promotion. I'm sure it will be very positive for
> the success of our Conference as well as for the development of Geo4all. Let
> me invite all members to this event specially those from Latin America and
> the Caribbean. It will be great to meet some of you here in Montevideo.
> Thanks for your time,
>
>
> Sergio Acosta y Lara
> Departamento de Geomática
> Dirección Nacional de Topografía
> Ministerio de Transporte y Obras Públicas
> URUGUAY
>
> ___
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> Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss



-- 
Edwin Liava'a
CheSpatial
Lautoka, FIJI
http://www.chespatial.com
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free and Open Source Geographic Information Technologies Conference in South America

[Suchith Anand]

Hi Sergio,

Thank you for the updates on the Free and Open Source Geographic Information 
Technologies Conference in  South America and great to hear that you will be 
presenting Geo4All. It is a great opportunity to spread Geo4All ideas to more 
universities and educational institutes in the region.

We will promote this through our channels in other communities also (ICA, ISPRS 
etc) for wider impact and participation.Please also send a summary report with 
photos of the conference for the Geo4All newsletter.

Will you be able to hand out OSGeoLive DVDs at the event for the participants? 
If so, may i request you to contact the OSGeo marketing committee and they 
should be able to guide and help you make the necessary arrangements. It will 
help spread the message more widely and create more impact.

Best wishes,

Suchith


From: Discuss [discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] on behalf of SERGIO ACOSTAYLARA 
[sergio.acostayl...@mtop.gub.uy]
Sent: 12 July 2016 6:04 PM
To: geofor...@lists.osgeo.org; discuss@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free and Open Source Geographic Information 
Technologies Conference in South America


Dear colleagues,
Maybe you already know that the Uruguayan gvSIG Community is organising for 
late October a Free and Open Source Geographic Information Technologies 
Conference (http://www.gvsig.com/en/eventos/jornadas-lac/2016) which will be 
our 4th. Uruguayan gvSIG Conference and the 8th. Latin American and Caribbean 
gvSIG Conference. It is not exactly a FOSS4G event but almost. It has become a 
landmark event for the country and the region. I will be presenting GeoForAll 
in it so as to promote it between Latin American colleagues. It will be really 
helpful to have the support of the Geo4all network to strengthen this 
promotion. I'm sure it will be very positive for the success of our Conference 
as well as for the development of Geo4all. Let me invite all members to this 
event specially those from Latin America and the Caribbean. It will be great to 
meet some of you here in Montevideo.
Thanks for your time,


Sergio Acosta y Lara
Departamento de Geomática
Dirección Nacional de Topografía
Ministerio de Transporte y Obras Públicas
URUGUAY




This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee
and may contain confidential information. If you have received this
message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. 

Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this
message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the
author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the
University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an
attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your
computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email
communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] free software for transport planning

[Ricardo Pinho]

Hi Robert,
Thank you for those references.
As a Metropolitan Transport Authority we need to create macro public transport 
models to simulate, analyse and plan the transport network and services 
provided to the city population.
PTV and other providers, offer very efficient software tools to help on those 
dificult and complex tasks. But they are based on closed source software 
licenses that we, beeing a public administration, should avoid and look for 
open and free equivalent solutions.After a short query I've been able to find 
several aplications (see below).
But I am relative new on this particulary transport area, so I don't know much 
about those alternatives. I really appreciate any recomendations from who 
already used some of these: 

- Simulation of Urban MObility
http://sumo-sim.org/userdoc/Sumo_at_a_Glance.html#About

- Multi-Agent Transport Simulation (MATSIM)

http://www.matsim.org/

- Open Source Sustainable Transport Informatics Platform (OSSTIP) 
http://www.appropedia.org/OSSTIP:_Open_Source_Sustainable_Transport_Informatics_Platform

- Transportation Analysis and Simulation System (TRANSIMS)
https://code.google.com/p/transims/


There are several listing on this subjetct, with many other solutions:

https://sites.google.com/site/cosiopentransportation//home/open-source
http://streetswiki.wikispaces.com/Web+2.0+-+Recommendations+for+Transport+Planning+Applications


Thank you in advance.
Cheers,
Ricardo Pinho




Em Quinta-feira, 18 de Setembro de 2014 0:01, Robert Cheetham 
cheet...@azavea.com escreveu:
 


Ricardo,

The tools of which I'm aware are focused on transit planning (rather than more 
transportation in general) and include:

 * World Bank Open Transit Indicators - 
https://github.com/WorldBank-Transport/open-transit-indicators - this is a 
project Azavea is developing under contract with the World Bank - we expect the 
initial version to be complete by the end of December
 * Open Trip Planner Analyst - a project that began at OpenPlans and is now led 
by Conveyal - http://www.opentripplanner.org/analyst/

Best,

Robert




--
Robert Cheetham


Azavea  |  340 N 12th St, Ste 402, Philadelphia, PA
cheet...@azavea.com | T 215.701.7713 | F 215.925.2663
Web azavea.com  |  Blog azavea.com/blogs  |  Twitter @rcheetham  and @azavea

Azavea is a B Corporation - we apply geospatial technology for civic and social 
impact
while advancing the state-of-the-art through research. Join us.



On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 6:46 PM, Ricardo Pinho rpinho_...@yahoo.com.br wrote:

Hi everyone, 
I would appreciate any reference about free software solution that covers the 
range of transport planning - from
 strategic planning to traffic engineering and simulation.
What I am really looking for is an alternative to PTV Vision for a national 
level use case.
Thank you very much,
Ricardo Pinho

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] free software for transport planning

[Robert Cheetham]

Ricardo,

The tools of which I'm aware are focused on transit planning (rather than
more transportation in general) and include:

 * World Bank Open Transit Indicators -
https://github.com/WorldBank-Transport/open-transit-indicators - this is a
project Azavea is developing under contract with the World Bank - we expect
the initial version to be complete by the end of December
 * Open Trip Planner Analyst - a project that began at OpenPlans and is now
led by Conveyal - http://www.opentripplanner.org/analyst/

Best,

Robert



--
Robert Cheetham

Azavea  |  340 N 12th St, Ste 402, Philadelphia, PA
cheet...@azavea.com  | T 215.701.7713  | F 215.925.2663
Web azavea.com http://www.azavea.com/  |  Blog azavea.com/blogs  |
Twitter @ http://goog_858212415rcheetham http://twitter.com/rcheetham
 and @azavea http://twitter.com/azavea

*Azavea is a B Corporation http://www.bcorporation.net/what-are-b-corps -
we apply geospatial technology for civic and social impact*
*while advancing the state-of-the-art through research. Join us
http://jobs.azavea.com/.*


On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 6:46 PM, Ricardo Pinho rpinho_...@yahoo.com.br
wrote:

 Hi everyone,
 I would appreciate any reference about free software solution that covers
 the range of transport planning - from strategic planning to traffic
 engineering and simulation.
 What I am really looking for is an alternative to PTV Vision
 http://vision-traffic.ptvgroup.com/en-uk/products/ptv-visum/use-cases/
 for a national level use case.
 Thank you very much,
 Ricardo Pinho

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 Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free GIS Day November 6, 2014 OSGéo - IGEAT (ULB) – Brussels (Belgium)

[Maelle Vercauteren]

Hello Dirk,
Thanks for the feedback. A presentation about OSGeo is indeed planned in
the morning session.
Cheers,
Maë//e

2014-09-13 11:18 GMT+02:00 Dirk Frigne dirk.fri...@geosparc.com:

  Thank you for your information.
 Great to promote Open Source GIS tools, software and Data.

 What I miss in the program is a presentation about OSGeo. OSGeo-fr should
 be able to give such a presentation.
 In 15 minutes you can already give a good overview on the organisation and
 the way it is active on a global base.

 Just my 2c.

 D.



 On 12-09-14 18:38, Maelle Vercauteren wrote:

  Hi Dirk, our event details are below :

 BE-OPENGIS-FR
 November 6, 2014
 Université Libre de Bruxelles

 The Institute of Environmental Management and Spatial Planning (IGEAT) of
 the Free University of Brussels (ULB) and OSGeo-fr are organising the
 BE-OpenGIS-FR on November 6, 2014 at the ULB.

 This day of conferences and practice sessions (in French) is aimed at
 anyone using free and open source GIS tools in their professional life or
 studies. We hope to gather together those scientists, administrations,
 private companies and interested individuals using and/or developing these
 tools, or just being curious about them.

 The first part of the day will cover three topics in the form of
 presentations:

 1) State and perspectives of public OpenData in the three Belgian regions
 and in Africa

 2) Presentation of some selected free and open source tools in GIS
 including the possibilities of integrating them into existing proprietary
 infrastructures

 3) Examples of concrete applications using free and open source GIS tools

 Presenters come from administrations, private companies and academics
 active in the field.

 The second part of the day is dedicated to practical workshops and
 demonstrations on topics such as

 - Using QGIS to create your customized, tailor-made application
 - Spatial analysis and cartography with R
 - A toolchain for putting your maps on the Web
 - Advanced spatial analysis with GRASS 7

 The aim of the day is to inform and promote, but also to discuss current
 issues and needs as well as reflect on the opportunity of building up a
 community of FOSS-GIS users and contributors in Belgium.

 For more information contact Moritz Lennert (moritz.lenn...@ulb.ac.be).
 A website will be up and running soon at http://be-opengis.ulb.ac.be/.



 2014-09-01 20:19 GMT+02:00 Dirk Frigne dirk.fri...@geosparc.com:

  Hi Maelle,

 Using the name FOSS4G-Be is no problem for activities related with the
 promotion and use of FOSS4G software.
 In 2013 I organized the OSGeoGhent event [1] and wanted to organize a
 second version in May this year.

 The Global FOSS4G conference will start next week in Portland [2], so if
 you could provide more details later this week about the venue and the
 right date, we can announce the event on the general assemblee of OSGeo
 next week.

 Will the event be in English or in French?

 Regards,
 Dirk Frigne


 [1] http://www.geomajas.org/osgeogent2013
 [2] https://2014.foss4g.org/


 On 01-09-14 17:57, Maelle Vercauteren wrote:

   Dear,

 I am contacting you about the potential use of the name “FOSS4G-Be” and
 about the participation of OSGeo-fr for a future freeGIS day in Belgium
 (Website and Event):

 We want to organize a French OSGeo event (the so called FOSS4G-Be) in
 early November 2014, in relation with the GIS courses and masterclass held
 at the Université Libre de Bruxelles, IGEAT research Unit:
 It will be a one day event. There will be a selection of plenary
 communication related to free SIG use in public or private environment and
 2 or 3 practical workshops.

 This event will cover the following 3 topics:

 1) FOSS4G tools/software: Establishment/creation or storage of
 infrastructure and web sharing of spatial data
 2) Data  Services: Presentation on the freely available data and services
 3) Applications: use of Open GIS (also with guest speakers from the South)


 Would you be willing to support us and work together on this project and
 could we use the name “FOSS4G-Be”?

 Could the event be co-organized by the ULB and OSGeo-fr?
 If so, it would be nice to have an OSGeo-fr stand with a representative
 of the association and of its activities (as well as a plenary presentation
 if you are interested in).


 Feel free to contact me if you have questions or if you would like to
 share your suggestions.


 Thank you in advance for your reply,


 Kind regards,
  Maë//e

 --
 Maëlle VERCAUTEREN DRUBBEL
 Coordinatrice du stage SIG Libres CUD

 Université Libre de Bruxelles - IGEAT (CP 130 / 03)
 Av. F. D. Roosevelt, 50
 B-1050 Bruxelles
 Tél.: 02/650.68.14 Fax: 02/650.50.92 Local: DB6.143


  ___
 Discuss mailing 
 listDiscuss@lists.osgeo.orghttp://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


 --
 Yours sincerely,


 ir. Dirk Frigne
 CEO

 Geosparc n.v.
 Brugsesteenweg 587
 B-9030 Ghent
 Tel: +32 9 236 60 18
 GSM: +32 495 508 799
 

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free GIS Day November 6, 2014 OSGéo - IGEAT (ULB) – Brussels (Belgium)

[Maelle Vercauteren]

Hi Dirk, our event details are below :

BE-OPENGIS-FR
November 6, 2014
Université Libre de Bruxelles

The Institute of Environmental Management and Spatial Planning (IGEAT) of
the Free University of Brussels (ULB) and OSGeo-fr are organising the
BE-OpenGIS-FR on November 6, 2014 at the ULB.

This day of conferences and practice sessions (in French) is aimed at
anyone using free and open source GIS tools in their professional life or
studies. We hope to gather together those scientists, administrations,
private companies and interested individuals using and/or developing these
tools, or just being curious about them.

The first part of the day will cover three topics in the form of
presentations:

1) State and perspectives of public OpenData in the three Belgian regions
and in Africa

2) Presentation of some selected free and open source tools in GIS
including the possibilities of integrating them into existing proprietary
infrastructures

3) Examples of concrete applications using free and open source GIS tools

Presenters come from administrations, private companies and academics
active in the field.

The second part of the day is dedicated to practical workshops and
demonstrations on topics such as

- Using QGIS to create your customized, tailor-made application
- Spatial analysis and cartography with R
- A toolchain for putting your maps on the Web
- Advanced spatial analysis with GRASS 7

The aim of the day is to inform and promote, but also to discuss current
issues and needs as well as reflect on the opportunity of building up a
community of FOSS-GIS users and contributors in Belgium.

For more information contact Moritz Lennert (moritz.lenn...@ulb.ac.be).
A website will be up and running soon at http://be-opengis.ulb.ac.be/.



2014-09-01 20:19 GMT+02:00 Dirk Frigne dirk.fri...@geosparc.com:

  Hi Maelle,

 Using the name FOSS4G-Be is no problem for activities related with the
 promotion and use of FOSS4G software.
 In 2013 I organized the OSGeoGhent event [1] and wanted to organize a
 second version in May this year.

 The Global FOSS4G conference will start next week in Portland [2], so if
 you could provide more details later this week about the venue and the
 right date, we can announce the event on the general assemblee of OSGeo
 next week.

 Will the event be in English or in French?

 Regards,
 Dirk Frigne


 [1] http://www.geomajas.org/osgeogent2013
 [2] https://2014.foss4g.org/


 On 01-09-14 17:57, Maelle Vercauteren wrote:

  Dear,

 I am contacting you about the potential use of the name “FOSS4G-Be” and
 about the participation of OSGeo-fr for a future freeGIS day in Belgium
 (Website and Event):

 We want to organize a French OSGeo event (the so called FOSS4G-Be) in
 early November 2014, in relation with the GIS courses and masterclass held
 at the Université Libre de Bruxelles, IGEAT research Unit:
 It will be a one day event. There will be a selection of plenary
 communication related to free SIG use in public or private environment and
 2 or 3 practical workshops.

 This event will cover the following 3 topics:

 1) FOSS4G tools/software: Establishment/creation or storage of
 infrastructure and web sharing of spatial data
 2) Data  Services: Presentation on the freely available data and services
 3) Applications: use of Open GIS (also with guest speakers from the South)


 Would you be willing to support us and work together on this project and
 could we use the name “FOSS4G-Be”?

 Could the event be co-organized by the ULB and OSGeo-fr?
 If so, it would be nice to have an OSGeo-fr stand with a representative of
 the association and of its activities (as well as a plenary presentation if
 you are interested in).


 Feel free to contact me if you have questions or if you would like to
 share your suggestions.


 Thank you in advance for your reply,


 Kind regards,
  Maë//e

 --
 Maëlle VERCAUTEREN DRUBBEL
 Coordinatrice du stage SIG Libres CUD

 Université Libre de Bruxelles - IGEAT (CP 130 / 03)
 Av. F. D. Roosevelt, 50
 B-1050 Bruxelles
 Tél.: 02/650.68.14 Fax: 02/650.50.92 Local: DB6.143


 ___
 Discuss mailing 
 listDiscuss@lists.osgeo.orghttp://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


 --
 Yours sincerely,


 ir. Dirk Frigne
 CEO

 Geosparc n.v.
 Brugsesteenweg 587
 B-9030 Ghent
 Tel: +32 9 236 60 18
 GSM: +32 495 508 799
 http://www.geomajas.org http://www.geosparc.com


 ___
 Discuss mailing list
 Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
 http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss




-- 
Maëlle VERCAUTEREN DRUBBEL
Coordinatrice du stage SIG Libres ARES

Université Libre de Bruxelles - IGEAT (CP 130 / 03)
Av. F. D. Roosevelt, 50
B-1050 Bruxelles
Tél.: 02/650.68.14 Fax: 02/650.50.92 Local: DB6.143
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free Developer Slots at FOSS4G events

[Steven Feldman]

Hi 

I've been following the conversation that was prompted by Paolo's comment about 
FOSS4G pricing

On the other hand, I still have problems with annual FOSS4G, which has a cost 
that scares away many top developers. IMHO (sorry to insist, I raised this 
point earlier) the meeting should be free for developers (committers to OSGeo 
projects), and more expensive for businessman.

The FOSS4G 2013 LOC discussed this in our regular team call today and have 
asked me to respond.

The pricing for FOSS4G is as was proposed in our bid to run the conference and 
is also at the level that was indicated in the OSGeo call for proposals i.e. ca 
$600 (bear in mind that we have 20% sales tax in the UK so our net receipt is 
actually $500). This is the same rate as for the previous event. The rate is 
low for a large high quality event run in a purpose built venue with decent 
catering, AV and other facilities.

As Daniel said and I agree, inevitably attending a 3 day conference (plus 
potentially some workshops and a codesprint) will be an expensive outing when 
accommodation and travel are added in particularly if you are travelling from 
far away. My guess is that for many people travel and accommodation will exceed 
the cost of the conference fees. I know that has been the case for me when 
considering events in Denver and Tokyo recently.

We are trying to balance the need to have an economically viable conference 
that covers costs and returns funds to OSGeo (which is what we were asked to 
do) with making the event as affordable and accessible as possible. We 
consulted with the OSGeo Board on how to balance these objectives before 
finalising our prices.

Perhaps this is a topic that the OSGeo Board should decide upon before issuing 
the call for FOSS4G 2014?

Steven Feldman





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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free Developer Slots at FOSS4G events

[Paolo Cavallini]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Il 08/03/2013 16:16, Steven Feldman ha scritto:

 I've been following the conversation that was prompted by Paolo's
 comment about FOSS4G pricing

 We are trying to balance the need to have an economically viable
 conference that covers costs and returns funds to OSGeo (which is
 what we were asked to do) with making the event as affordable and
 accessible as possible. We consulted with the OSGeo Board on how to
 balance these objectives before finalising our prices.

Hi all.
We have shown that admitting for free a limited number of top developers
from OSGeo core projects, that could not otherwise attend, will not be a
cost to the conference, but an opportunity. The attitude shown confirms
the widespread feeling of a modest attention to developers, and of the
primary aim of FOSS4G as a moneymaking machine.
To me, developers are really the blood and nerves of free software, and
should be cared of.
This closure to a reasonable proposal does not shed a bight light on
OSGeo, too.
All the best.
- -- 
Paolo Cavallini - Faunalia
www.faunalia.eu
Full contact details at www.faunalia.eu/pc
Nuovi corsi QGIS e PostGIS: http://www.faunalia.it/calendario
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free Developer Slots at FOSS4G events: [was RE: FW: [Board] OSGeo Board Priorities]

[Barry Rowlingson]

On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 10:45 AM, Paolo Cavallini cavall...@faunalia.it wrote:

 So how many lower-rate slots would that require? We've got 17
 official projects and 7 incubating projects according to the home
 page summary. With this year's rates (full 350 £, student 240 £)
 and only 2 developers per project it could account for a difference
 up to 110 £ * 48 = 5280 £. Not terrible after all.

 I thnk it's far less than that. Hopefully this will bring people that
 otherwise would not come, so no net cost (and a lot more value to the
 conference, and a more developer friendly attitude).

Given the recent strategic message, I don't think its in the local
FOSS4G committee's role to provide bursaries beyond the
well-established student discount - certainly not for 2013 Nottingham
anyway. If OSGEO want to do that, then they can consider it as a skim
off the conference profits. I'm sure the local committee will be glad
to point people to OSGEO bursaries from the conference web page.

 We just need to hear from OSGEO purse-holders to see if they are willing.

 I think we already have someone providing education-related
bursaries, so there's a precedent.

Barry
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free Developer Slots at FOSS4G events: [was RE: FW: [Board] OSGeo Board Priorities]

[Paolo Cavallini]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Il 07/03/2013 12:03, Barry Rowlingson ha scritto:

 Given the recent strategic message, I don't think its in the local 
 FOSS4G committee's role to provide bursaries beyond the 
 well-established student discount - certainly not for 2013
 Nottingham anyway. If OSGEO want to do that, then they can consider
 it as a skim off the conference profits. I'm sure the local
 committee will be glad to point people to OSGEO bursaries from the
 conference web page.
 
 We just need to hear from OSGEO purse-holders to see if they are
 willing.
 
 I think we already have someone providing education-related 
 bursaries, so there's a precedent.

Hi Barry,
I think we are mixing two issues here:
* 0 fees for developers - as I pointed out, this is not a cost for the
conference, but rather an advantage (participants are more likely to
come if the know most top developers are present); my suggestion is
that this should become a requirement from OSGeo
* bursaries to cover travelling and lodging; this is outside my
original proposal, and should be treated differently.
All the best.
- -- 
Paolo Cavallini - Faunalia
www.faunalia.eu
Full contact details at www.faunalia.eu/pc
Nuovi corsi QGIS e PostGIS: http://www.faunalia.it/calendario
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free Developer Slots at FOSS4G events: [was RE: FW: [Board] OSGeo Board Priorities]

[Jody Garnett]

 I think we are mixing two issues here:
 * 0 fees for developers - as I pointed out, this is not a cost for the
 conference, but rather an advantage (participants are more likely to
 come if the know most top developers are present); my suggestion is
 that this should become a requirement from OSGeo

I am unlikely to attend foss4g this year either way.

Many of the developers I know can only attend conferences when their fees are 
covered (as a speaker or by giving a workshop). So while I am not automatically 
in favour of 0 fees for developers - it would have a large impact on enabling 
developers to attend.

Cheers,
Jody
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free Developer Slots at FOSS4G events: [was RE: FW: [Board] OSGeo Board Priorities]

[Paolo Cavallini]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Il 05/03/2013 00:51, Frank Warmerdam ha scritto:

 Possibly a scheme were each formal OSGeo project could nominate two
 or three contributors to attend at the student rate?

sounds good.
thanks.

- -- 
Paolo Cavallini - Faunalia
www.faunalia.eu
Full contact details at www.faunalia.eu/pc
Nuovi corsi QGIS e PostGIS: http://www.faunalia.it/calendario
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YJwAniQdCD0Cbe43yB9cU7ykqjM+svsw
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free Developer Slots at FOSS4G events: [was RE: FW: [Board] OSGeo Board Priorities]

[Jachym Cepicky]

Those are questions, which I'm aware of as well

J

Dne 5.3.2013 00:15, Bruce Bannerman napsal(a):
 But who would
 select these people? What would be the eligibility criteria? What process
 would be used that would allow an open and auditable selection of
 recipients? How would other hard working developers feel if they missed out
 on a free slot? What then would the impact be on the community and on the
 FOSS4G conference?

-- 
Jachym Cepicky
Help Service - Remote Sensing s.r.o.
jachym.cepi...@gmail.com
HS-RS: jac...@hsrs.cz http://bnhelp.cz
http://les-ejk.cz



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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free Developer Slots at FOSS4G events: [was RE: FW: [Board] OSGeo Board Priorities]

[Jachym Cepicky]

Frank,



Dne 5.3.2013 00:51, Frank Warmerdam napsal(a):
 Possibly a scheme were each formal OSGeo project could nominate two or
 three contributors to attend at the student rate?
 
 Note that I'm not suggesting it would necessarily apply this year but if we
 can come up with a palatable scheme  we could write it into the RFP for the
 future.

I was thinking about something similar.

Jachym

-- 
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Help Service - Remote Sensing s.r.o.
jachym.cepi...@gmail.com
HS-RS: jac...@hsrs.cz http://bnhelp.cz
http://les-ejk.cz



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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free Developer Slots at FOSS4G events: [was RE: FW: [Board] OSGeo Board Priorities]

[Daniel Morissette]

To add to what Bruce just wrote, unless you happen to live in the region 
where FOSS4G is being held a given year, then the cost of traveling to 
FOSS4G (flight/train, hotel, meals, etc.) is much more significant than 
the registration cost and very likely a bigger show stopper for those 
who cannot afford to go.


I am all for trying to make the event more accessible and keeping the 
registration costs as low as possible, for instance by choosing more 
affordable venues, but I am not convinced that free registration passes 
would make much of a difference when you take into acount the other 
travel costs and most importantly the complications introduced by an 
arbitrary selection process.


My 0.02$

Daniel


On 13-03-04 6:15 PM, Bruce Bannerman wrote:

(Wearing my former FOSS4G Conference organiser hat)

Paolo and Jachym,

This is an issue that comes up on a fairly regular basis.

To be honest, as a person who has attended a number of spatial
conferences, I must say that the costs for the average FOSS4G
international conference are very reasonable and compare very favourably
with similar events. They also represent excellent value for money when
you think of the typical breadth and high quality of presentations.

As a conference organiser, there is a great deal of pressure on ensuring
a financially viable conference. It is not until the very last stages of
the planning for the event that you start to get an understanding of how
many people have actually committed to attend the event, and whether you
will cover your costs for the event.

There is a cost, even for 'free' slots. Think of meals, drinks and lost
revenue opportunities to cover conference costs.

So if a lot of free slots are given to developers and the conference
fails to attract sufficient delegates to cover the conference costs, who
pays for the short fall in funds that the conference has committed to?
Do the volunteer local organisers pay out of their own pocket? Does OSGeo?

We (FOSS4G-2009) did look at the idea of have a 'few' slots available
for developers who had done an outstanding job for the community. But
who would select these people? What would be the eligibility criteria?
What process would be used that would allow an open and auditable
selection of recipients? How would other hard working developers feel if
they missed out on a free slot? What then would the impact be on the
community and on the FOSS4G conference? So in the end, we decided out of
fairness for all developers that we would not offer free slots for
developers.

So in summary:

  * FOSS4G events are good value for money and not overly expensive.
  * It does not make financial sense to provide a lot of free places for
developers at FOSS4G conferences. If there are insufficient funds to
cover the substantial conference costs, who pays?


Bruce







-- Forwarded Message

*From: *Jachym Cepicky
*Date: *Mon, 4 Mar 2013 20:59:14 +1100
*To: *cavallini http://cavall...@faunalia.it
*Cc: *OSGeo Discussions , OSGeo-Board List
*Subject: *Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Board] OSGeo Board Priorities


Hi,

I fully agree, that the costs for individuals or small company are very
heigh. I'm aware, you were mentioning this issue already. Since I know,
FOSS4G-Global is the main source of income to OSGeo, I did not raise any
obligation so far - I have no clue, how to organize this better for the
future.

Paolo's idea sounds not bad: having some kind of scholarship program,
where we could allocate some money for people who can not come but it's
valuable to have them there.

Do we have some priorities for FOSS4G as well? In general, when I'm
discussing this topic with people, general feelings are, that
FOSS4G-Global is very developer-oriented meeting, compared e.g. to
FOSSGIS (German local conference), which would be more user or business
oriented (correct me if I'm wrong, it is a while, I was there).

Having priorities of the FOSS4G-global could also point us the the
answer, whether we should financially support developers to come or not.

Jachym

Dne 4.3.2013 08:33, Paolo Cavallini napsal(a):
 Il 04/03/2013 00:44, Cameron Shorter ha scritto:

 A productive virtual meeting of the OSGeo Board
 http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_Meeting_2013-02-26 resulted in
general consensus
 over OSGeo's priorities, which in turn should help the OSGeo Board and 
OSGeo
 committees when guiding OSGeo into the future.

 These principles are:

   * OSGeo should act as a low capital, volunteer focused organisation.
   * OSGeo should focus support on OSGeo communities and initiatives 
which support
 themselves.

 Hi all.
 Thanks for this. I welcome this change, that I think will make OSGeo much 
more
 effective in promoting free and open source geospatial software.
 On the other hand, I still have problems with annual FOSS4G, which has a 
cost 

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free Developer Slots at FOSS4G events: [was RE: FW: [Board] OSGeo Board Priorities]

[Frank Warmerdam]

Jachym / Bruce / Paolo,

There is certainly a difference in the pricing between FOSS4G and some of
the smaller scrappier conferences but by comparison to other professional
conferences it is certainly reasonably priced.

Bruce - in the past workshop presenters would get free entrance for the
conference.   Is that the case this year?  I feel like that was often a way
for core community contributors to get in free while adding a very serious
added value to the conference.

I am interested in ways that we could make it easier / cheaper for core
contributors to attend.   Just by being there they add value to the
conference, and the conference exists in part to serve the project
contributors.

Possibly a scheme were each formal OSGeo project could nominate two or
three contributors to attend at the student rate?

Note that I'm not suggesting it would necessarily apply this year but if we
can come up with a palatable scheme  we could write it into the RFP for the
future.  Doing it at the student rate would at least help avoid the
conference being out-of-pocket for too much.

Best regards,
Frank

On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 3:15 PM, Bruce Bannerman 
bruce.bannerman.os...@gmail.com wrote:

 (Wearing my former FOSS4G Conference organiser hat)

 Paolo and Jachym,

 This is an issue that comes up on a fairly regular basis.

 To be honest, as a person who has attended a number of spatial
 conferences, I must say that the costs for the average FOSS4G international
 conference are very reasonable and compare very favourably with similar
 events. They also represent excellent value for money when you think of the
 typical breadth and high quality of presentations.

 As a conference organiser, there is a great deal of pressure on ensuring a
 financially viable conference. It is not until the very last stages of the
 planning for the event that you start to get an understanding of how many
 people have actually committed to attend the event, and whether you will
 cover your costs for the event.

 There is a cost, even for 'free' slots. Think of meals, drinks and lost
 revenue opportunities to cover conference costs.

 So if a lot of free slots are given to developers and the conference fails
 to attract sufficient delegates to cover the conference costs, who pays for
 the short fall in funds that the conference has committed to? Do the
 volunteer local organisers pay out of their own pocket? Does OSGeo?

 We (FOSS4G-2009) did look at the idea of have a 'few' slots available for
 developers who had done an outstanding job for the community. But who would
 select these people? What would be the eligibility criteria? What process
 would be used that would allow an open and auditable selection of
 recipients? How would other hard working developers feel if they missed out
 on a free slot? What then would the impact be on the community and on the
 FOSS4G conference? So in the end, we decided out of fairness for all
 developers that we would not offer free slots for developers.

 So in summary:


- FOSS4G events are good value for money and not overly expensive.
- It does not make financial sense to provide a lot of free places for
developers at FOSS4G conferences. If there are insufficient funds to cover
the substantial conference costs, who pays?


 Bruce






 -- Forwarded Message

 *From: *Jachym Cepicky
 *Date: *Mon, 4 Mar 2013 20:59:14 +1100
 *To: *cavallini http://cavall...@faunalia.it
 *Cc: *OSGeo Discussions , OSGeo-Board List
 *Subject: *Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Board] OSGeo Board Priorities


 Hi,

 I fully agree, that the costs for individuals or small company are very
 heigh. I'm aware, you were mentioning this issue already. Since I know,
 FOSS4G-Global is the main source of income to OSGeo, I did not raise any
 obligation so far - I have no clue, how to organize this better for the
 future.

 Paolo's idea sounds not bad: having some kind of scholarship program,
 where we could allocate some money for people who can not come but it's
 valuable to have them there.

 Do we have some priorities for FOSS4G as well? In general, when I'm
 discussing this topic with people, general feelings are, that
 FOSS4G-Global is very developer-oriented meeting, compared e.g. to
 FOSSGIS (German local conference), which would be more user or business
 oriented (correct me if I'm wrong, it is a while, I was there).

 Having priorities of the FOSS4G-global could also point us the the
 answer, whether we should financially support developers to come or not.

 Jachym

 Dne 4.3.2013 08:33, Paolo Cavallini napsal(a):
  Il 04/03/2013 00:44, Cameron Shorter ha scritto:

  A productive virtual meeting of the OSGeo Board
  http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_Meeting_2013-02-26 resulted in
 general consensus
  over OSGeo's priorities, which in turn should help the OSGeo Board and
 OSGeo
  committees when guiding OSGeo into the future.
 
  These principles are:
 
* OSGeo should act as a low capital, volunteer focused organisation.
 

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free

[Josef Assad]

Hello OSGeo community,

I am a little new in here, so a quick two line introduction; Ive been
involved with free software for something like 8 years now in almost
all capacities except programming it (much to the fortune of code
quality everywhere). Advocacy, program management, licensing, community
building, etc. Grass roots to enterprise (UN agencies, government,
etc.).

On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 23:08:06 +1100
Tim Bowden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 This thread has really mutated but fwiw, here goes:

Yes, this thread has gotten thrown a bit :) Back to the original
discussion around whether it makes sense to let Oracle in given the
proposal Paul showed us. My two cents are:

1. I am missing the point around dissecting the expressions open source
and free software. From my perspective, OSGeo is about the kind of
software which will generally adhere to the four basic freedoms[1].
I prefer the French expression for free software: logiciels libres
(excuse my horrible French). Liberty. What we are seeing from Oracle in
this presentation does not address that core ethos in any manner.
2. Oracle does provide some free-of-charge systems, but that clearly is
neither free software nor open source. In fact, it is debatable whether
their products which are free of license costs are free of costs in
general (cue long-winded discussion on costs of getting locked in to
their platform, costs of requiring more fancy hardware than if one had
gone with more resource-efficient open source systems, etc.)
3. In my mind, OSGeo is what the name sounds like; we are a boolean AND
operation of interest in geospatial systems AND open source. If
Oracle were to be let in simply because they are addressing one of our
thematic interests then I might ping the firefox team and see if they
want in also! :)
4. I am not seeing any explicit nods towards open standards (OGCs
domain, I think) either in the proposal.

I think its great to be inclusive, and I think it is worth taking a
little trouble to help Oracle make a better match to what this
community represents and is trying to advocate. There must certainly be
plenty of clever people there, and if we could give them guidelines for
what kind of proposal they could come up with which gives better
congruency with the twin themes of geospatial systems and open source,
then everyone would be richer for the effort.

What I would not agree with however would be showing flexibility in
commitment to what open source fundamentally is in the name of being
inclusive. This does not mean we chase people off with a stick if they
mutter the word windows, but it does not mean either that we have
proprietary shops roll in and set up stands. In this case and with a
major proprietary vendor such as Oracle, there would be the need to be
extra careful about the way they are brought in since we might be
talking about different kinds of free. That can only confuse people
rather than enlighten them, and we do hope that one of the objectives
is more enlightened people not less :)

There are fields out there where proprietary systems are entrenched and
where the field could not get ahead if the proprietary vendor were not
there; geospatial systems as a field is fortunate not to be one of those
and we seem to have an extremely solid stack. This merits protection
from dilution of the concept (Free) from which this stack arose, in my
opinion.

So, in a situation like this (apologies for rehashing; I want to make
sure my personal position is clear in this matter), I would
emphatically vote in for Oracle but not with that proposal.

Apologies for a long rant!


Josef


[1] http://www.fsfeurope.org/documents/freesoftware.en.html


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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free

[Arnulf Christl]

On Wed, March 7, 2007 15:37, Josef Assad wrote:
 Hello OSGeo community,

 I am a little new in here, so a quick two line introduction; Ive been
 involved with free software for something like 8 years now in almost
 all capacities except programming it (much to the fortune of code
 quality everywhere). Advocacy, program management, licensing, community
 building, etc. Grass roots to enterprise (UN agencies, government,
 etc.).

 On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 23:08:06 +1100
 Tim Bowden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 This thread has really mutated but fwiw, here goes:

 Yes, this thread has gotten thrown a bit :) Back to the original
 discussion around whether it makes sense to let Oracle in given the
 proposal Paul showed us. My two cents are:

 1. I am missing the point around dissecting the expressions open source
 and free software. From my perspective, OSGeo is about the kind of
 software which will generally adhere to the four basic freedoms[1].
 I prefer the French expression for free software: logiciels libres
 (excuse my horrible French). Liberty. What we are seeing from Oracle in
 this presentation does not address that core ethos in any manner.
 2. Oracle does provide some free-of-charge systems, but that clearly is
 neither free software nor open source. In fact, it is debatable whether
 their products which are free of license costs are free of costs in
 general (cue long-winded discussion on costs of getting locked in to
 their platform, costs of requiring more fancy hardware than if one had
 gone with more resource-efficient open source systems, etc.)
 3. In my mind, OSGeo is what the name sounds like; we are a boolean AND
 operation of interest in geospatial systems AND open source. If
 Oracle were to be let in simply because they are addressing one of our
 thematic interests then I might ping the firefox team and see if they
 want in also! :)
 4. I am not seeing any explicit nods towards open standards (OGCs
 domain, I think) either in the proposal.

 I think its great to be inclusive, and I think it is worth taking a
 little trouble to help Oracle make a better match to what this
 community represents and is trying to advocate. There must certainly be
 plenty of clever people there, and if we could give them guidelines for
 what kind of proposal they could come up with which gives better
 congruency with the twin themes of geospatial systems and open source,
 then everyone would be richer for the effort.

 What I would not agree with however would be showing flexibility in
 commitment to what open source fundamentally is in the name of being
 inclusive. This does not mean we chase people off with a stick if they
 mutter the word windows, but it does not mean either that we have
 proprietary shops roll in and set up stands. In this case and with a
 major proprietary vendor such as Oracle, there would be the need to be
 extra careful about the way they are brought in since we might be
 talking about different kinds of free. That can only confuse people
 rather than enlighten them, and we do hope that one of the objectives
 is more enlightened people not less :)

 There are fields out there where proprietary systems are entrenched and
 where the field could not get ahead if the proprietary vendor were not
 there; geospatial systems as a field is fortunate not to be one of those
 and we seem to have an extremely solid stack. This merits protection
 from dilution of the concept (Free) from which this stack arose, in my
 opinion.

 So, in a situation like this (apologies for rehashing; I want to make
 sure my personal position is clear in this matter), I would
 emphatically vote in for Oracle but not with that proposal.

 Apologies for a long rant!


 Josef

Thanks a lot.

Arnulf.

(I just removed the quotes around the Free in the subject ot make sure...)

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free

[Tim Bowden]

On Tue, 2007-03-06 at 00:43 -0700, Zachary L. Stauber wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 ross s wrote:
  Just to add a bit more spice to the discussion.  I think the root
  problem here is a definition amoung open source purists.  Jeff Thurston
  has added some interesting points to his blog (below).
  
 
 I think the root of the problem is that there is such a thing as an open 
 source
 purist at all.  Why does open source have to mean closed mind?  On the
 other end, there is an equally troublesome Microsoft Evangelist (this is a
 real title on a business card, by the way), but they aren't the problem at 
 hand.

Open source doesn't mean closed mind at all.  If you are referring to
the habit of FOSS purists being pedantic about what is FOSS and what is
not, then I think that's a good thing.  It's not uncommon for people
outside the FOSS development world to think that free as in beer is the
same as free as in speach.  For those of us who have experienced first
hand what the difference is, I think it's important to keep hammering
away at the perception they are the same. `The problem of course, is the
dual meaning of the word free, as has often been pointed out in the
past.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not proposing a Stallman approach here.  If
someone wants to use proprietary software, fine.  If someone wants to
offer proprietary software (free as in beer or otherwise), again no
problem.  You just won't get me jumping for joy about it.  It's not
about the quality of the software.  There is plenty of great software
and junk software in both the FOSS and proprietary development
ecosystems.  What I don't like, is handing the keys to my business to
the vendor of my mission critical software, which is what so often
happens when proprietary software is at the heart of a business.  If
being in that position makes me an open source purist then so be it,
but I don't see how my insistence that *I* use only open source can be
the heart of the problem for *someone else*.

  Limiting oneself out of team spirit is senseless.  Obviously we don't want
 something that WAS free or open source to be commercialized, but that is an
 extremely uncommon, and we don't want any commercial software taking up room 
 at
 a FOSS4G conference if it isn't (or couldn't be) related to open source in 
 some
 demonstrable way, but I trust nobody is going to allow that to happen.

Yes, we do want open source commercialised.  I make my living of selling
open source solutions.  If that's not commercial open source, then I
don't know what is.  Do we want *proprietary* software built on open
source?  Well that's entirely up to the prerogative of the original
developer, and it *is* quite common.  Anything with an MIT/BSD style
license can be used this way.  Do the improvements get passed back down
the line?  Sometimes, sometimes not.  That's a value decision that's up
to the developers to make.

 
 Outside of a university setting, one HAS to integrate with commercial 
 software.
  Most businesses in the US are Windows-only.  My employer used to mandate IIS,
 SQL Server, and Oracle Spatial exclusively.  To even try to change it (and 
 there
 are plenty of us on the inside that wanted to), the open source community had 
 to
 meet us halfway and make things like MS4W and windows installs of
 PostgreSQL/PostGIS.  Now a couple years later, parts of it have switched from
 Oracle Spatial to PostgreSQL/PostGIS.  Why?  Because PostgreSQL/PostGIS 
 actually
 has better Windows support (Oracle 10.1.0 wouldn't even install under Windows
 without massive errors and security issues).  More important, you can write
 plugins for PostgrSQL/PostGIS with MS Visual Studio, whereas Oracle has
 intentionally decided to stay away from Microsoft programming languages, 
 leaving
 it with just Java (which isn't even an open standard, unlike C#).  We can't
 change from IIS to Apache, so if MS4W didn't exist, we'd be using ArcIMS 
 instead
 of MapServer.  If the PostGIS people and Jeff McKenna had written off Windows
 users because we happened to not think Microsoft and ESRI were the devil, we'd
 have to write off open source, but luckily they are an open-minded bunch, and 
 I
 think that kind of open mentality deserves to be rewarded and further 
 promoted.
 
   -Zack

It is often necessary to integrate with *proprietary* software in many
different ways; Platforms, data formats, server apps, client apps etc.
The question is often asked, should open source support windows.  The
answers are as varied as the developers who write open source.

At one end, we have the ESR type approach- No, we don't support Windows
— get a better operating system [1] which does have merit.  If I'm
developing software to scratch a personal itch [2], why should *I* worry
about *your* operating system.  You've got the source code.  If you
really want it, go for it, so long as you respect the licence I choose. 

At the other end, we have the mozilla approach.  Firefox is 

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free

[ross s]

Just to add a bit more spice to the discussion. I think the root problem here is a definition amoung open source purists. Jeff Thurston has added some interesting points to his blog (below).
---
How Free is Free? How Open is Open?

An interesting discussion is going on within the OSGEO commmunity list serve. It revolves around what constitutes �free� software and �open� software.
I find it interesting that anyone would want to limit, define and erect boundaries between proprietary and open source intitiatives, since, in effect, we are all on the same train and riding the same rails into the future of geographic data and a society where geo-information is shared.
Take the case of ORACLE and their ORACLE Database XE. From the ORACLE website it says,

Oracle Database 10g Express Edition (Oracle Database XE) is an entry-level, small-footprint database based on the Oracle Database 10g Release 2 code base that�s free to develop, deploy, and distribute; fast to download; and simple to administer. Oracle Database XE is a great starter database for:
�Developers working on PHP, Java, .NET, XML, and Open Source applications�DBAs who need a free, starter database for training and deployment�Independent Software Vendors (ISVs) and hardware vendors who want a starter database to distribute free of charge�Educational institutions and students who need a free database for their curriculum
My take on this, is that it is free and can be freely used. In fact, I would argue that most �free� viewers on the internet are in the same category.
I can foresee proprietary and open and free systemsinteroperating together in the future. In fact, I would argue that the majority of installed networked systems involving geo-data, operations and services will eventually include parts of both.
I would also venture that new methodologies for creating software that involve bothproprietary and free and open software approaches will flourish.
So�is your �free� more pure than my �free�? Is there a �free-o-meter� or something about?
Watch out for the Python.
Seriously though, why limit free and open to a box? Isn�t the objective to formulate, develop and create new approaches and strategies? 


- Original Message -
From: Arnulf Christl [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Monday, March 5, 2007 10:51 am
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] "Free"

 Zachary L. Stauber wrote:   If I'm not mistaken at the last FOSS4G conference OracleXE  already did have a   demonstration and it wasn't nearly as integrated with open  source software as   the requirements we're now talking about to be part of FOSS4G.  I didn't attend   it, but I did talk to some of the presenters afterwards for some  technical help.   Hi,  I attended the workshop and wasn't too excited about it. Paul was  sitting right beside me and I had to restrain him a few times from  throwing tomatoes but else it was pretty relaxed.   We started a short argument in the discussion about what Oracle's  initiative is worth to the Open Source community. The result was  null. Oracle is basically just trying to lure a few free-beer beta 
 tester to hone their solution. The second strategy is have people  implement Open Source on top of Oracle to help spread their  proprietary licenses. Both are not OSGeo mission statements.   I might develop a different opinion if Oracle would be a  sustaining sponsor of OSGeo and actually invests some money. They  have cash, if they spend it to sustain OSGeo, cool.The alternative to OracleXE is Oracle 10g Enterprise which is  something like   US$40,000 per processor.   Yes, look at this. All they need to do is sell two processor  licenses to be in the major league of OSGeo sponsors (aside to  FunCom: we should raise the bar, when I come to think - of it we  are a lot too cheap...). ((aside to myself: Counting this way the  WhereGroup has generated a revenue of 400k for Oracle last year.  Whoops! That wasn't planned!)) 
   So just because of that huge step up I don't think   Oracle can use OracleXE as a foothold in order to sell a  commercial version. I   think it's safe to say if they're offering OracleXE to the open  source community, their reasons are benign, and if they're not,  too bad for them   because they won't be getting any sales off it.   "Their" reasons are not "benign" if I understand the meaning of  the word correctly as "them" in this context is a corporation and  can thus not bring human affection, care or love. ((aside to  myself: hope for them to not apply the term "benign" to Open  Source software because it won't work either))Believe me, I'm a PostGIS user to the core, myself, but I think  that the slope   from commercial to open source is a slippery one  
 Yes it is, sorry - if I may interject. The opposites in this  equation are "proprietary" vs. "Open Source". The term  "commercial" can be applied in many ways to Open Source based  solutions, so it does not make 

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free

[Frank Warmerdam]

ross s wrote:
Just to add a bit more spice to the discussion.  I think the root 
problem here is a definition amoung open source purists.  Jeff Thurston 
has added some interesting points to his blog (below).


---
So? is your ?free? more pure than my ?free?? Is there a ?free-o-meter? 
or something about?


Folks,

Yes, there is a free-o-meter.  If the licensing of software meetings the
requirements of the open source definition then the software is free (in
the open source sense).  Otherwise it is just not.

I have no problem with workshops about mixing free (aka open source) and
proprietary software.  Lots and lots of foss software works with Oracle, so
show that link in action!  But I don't feel the conference should have
substantial content that is strictly proprietary without so much as an
open source fig-leaf.

The lack of understanding of what we mean by free just demonstrates the
need for additional outreach by OSGeo.

Best regards,
--
---+--
I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank Warmerdam, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
light and sound - activate the windows | http://pobox.com/~warmerdam
and watch the world go round - Rush| President OSGeo, http://osgeo.org

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free

[Allan Doyle]

On Mar 5, 2007, at 13:26, Frank Warmerdam wrote:


ross s wrote:
Just to add a bit more spice to the discussion.  I think the root  
problem here is a definition amoung open source purists.  Jeff  
Thurston has added some interesting points to his blog (below).

---
So? is your ?free? more pure than my ?free?? Is there a ?free-o- 
meter? or something about?


Folks,

Yes, there is a free-o-meter.  If the licensing of software  
meetings the
requirements of the open source definition then the software is  
free (in

the open source sense).  Otherwise it is just not.

I have no problem with workshops about mixing free (aka open  
source) and
proprietary software.  Lots and lots of foss software works with  
Oracle, so

show that link in action!  But I don't feel the conference should have
substantial content that is strictly proprietary without so much as an
open source fig-leaf.

The lack of understanding of what we mean by free just demonstrates  
the

need for additional outreach by OSGeo.


+1

See also: http://zcologia.com/news/390/deliberately-obtuse/

Free-o-meter: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html


--
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+1.781.433.2695
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free

[Arnulf Christl]

On Mon, March 5, 2007 19:26, Allan Doyle wrote:

 On Mar 5, 2007, at 13:26, Frank Warmerdam wrote:

 ross s wrote:
 Just to add a bit more spice to the discussion.  I think the root
 problem here is a definition amoung open source purists.  Jeff
 Thurston has added some interesting points to his blog (below).
 ---
 So? is your ?free? more pure than my ?free?? Is there a ?free-o-
 meter? or something about?

 Folks,

 Yes, there is a free-o-meter.  If the licensing of software
 meetings the
 requirements of the open source definition then the software is
 free (in
 the open source sense).  Otherwise it is just not.

 I have no problem with workshops about mixing free (aka open
 source) and
 proprietary software.  Lots and lots of foss software works with
 Oracle, so
 show that link in action!  But I don't feel the conference should have
 substantial content that is strictly proprietary without so much as an
 open source fig-leaf.

 The lack of understanding of what we mean by free just demonstrates
 the
 need for additional outreach by OSGeo.

 +1

 See also: http://zcologia.com/news/390/deliberately-obtuse/

 Free-o-meter: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html


 --
 Allan Doyle
 +1.781.433.2695
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

+1 to both my humble masters who always find the right few words to
formulate what me needs to make an epic of.

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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free

[Ned Horning]

On Mar 5, 2007, at 13:26, Frank Warmerdam wrote:

 The lack of understanding of what we mean by free just demonstrates the
 need for additional outreach by OSGeo. 

I am still trying to get my head around the free and open source concept.
I've been through the Free Software Foundation site and although I think the
free software movement is great I still don't see why it can't be thought of
as a subset of open source. 

From my perspective, being more of an open source consumer than a producer,
it seems silly to use free and open source. It creates a good deal of
unnecessary confusion to those outside of the free/open source community. It
seems that the free movement focuses on the philosophical differences
which is fine but can't folks with different philosophies co-exist under the
open source umbrella? Aren't all of the licenses that are endorsed by the
FSF also endorsed by the open source community? 

As far as OSGeo outreach goes, should we use free and open source or just
open source and explain what free means within a definition of open
source? So far it seems to be inconstantly used within OSGeo. Would it make
sense to think of the free 4 geo community as the radical arm of OSGeo :)

PS. What is the correct term for software that doesn't cost anything but
is closed (like MultiSpec and 3DEM)? Freeware?

All the best, 

Ned

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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free

[watry]

Now class! Please pay attention!!

According to the Free Software Foundation

Free software is software that comes with permission for anyone to use, 
copy, and distribute, either verbatim or with modifications, either 
gratis or for a fee. In particular, this means that source code must be 
available


The term open source software is used by some people to mean more or 
less the same category as free software. It is not exactly the same 
class of software: they accept some licenses that FSF consider too 
restrictive, and there are free software licenses they have not 
accepted. However, the differences in extension of the category are 
small: nearly all free software is open source, and nearly all open 
source software is free. FSF prefer the term free software because it 
refers to freedom--something that the term open source does not do.


Non-free software is any software that is not free. This includes 
semi-free software and proprietary software. Semi-free software is 
software that is not free, but comes with permission for individuals to 
use, copy, distribute, and modify (including distribution of modified 
versions) for non-profit purposes. PGP is an example of a semi-free 
program. Proprietary software is software that is not free or 
semi-free. Its use, redistribution or modification is prohibited, or 
requires you to ask for permission, or is restricted so much that you 
effectively can't do it freely


The term freeware has no clear accepted definition, but it is 
commonly used for packages which permit redistribution but not 
modification (and their source code is not available). These packages 
are not free software, so please don't use freeware to refer to free 
software. Shareware is software which comes with permission for people 
to redistribute copies, but says that anyone who continues to use a 
copy is required to pay a license fee. Class Dismissed


P.s. Taken from http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/categories.html

enjoy






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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free

[Allan Doyle]

On Mar 5, 2007, at 14:27, Paul Ramsey wrote:
Au contraire, you'll find the GPL and LGPL duly listed as OSI- 
approved licenses here: http://www.opensource.org/licenses/


While the free folks might not like the flexibility displayed by  
the open source movement, they can be fully subsumed from a  
licensing point-of-view, if not an advocacy point-of-view.



On Mar 5, 2007, at 14:33, Ned Horning wrote:



The FSF can't exist under the Open Source umbrella because they
feel some Open Source does not guarantee Freedom over time. The Open
Source people can't exist under the Free umbrella because they feel
the GPL and its variants are too restrictive.


Okay, this is the part I don't get. What part of the FSF can't be  
included

as open source? To me this sounds like a square saying it can't be a
rectangle since all of its side have the same length.

I think of open source as embracing a broad spectrum of licenses  
including
all of those supported by the FSF. Should I not be looking at this  
from a

licensing perspective?


I stand corrected by Paul from a license point of view. But I believe  
that licenses such as the MIT license http://opensource.org/licenses/ 
mit-license.php which are non-viral in that they do not require  
that derived works themselves be open source are philosophically at  
odds with the Free Software Foundation's ideals.


Thus to me Free is not a subset of Open Source because the latter  
does not guarantee Freedom in perpetuity. That is what makes people  
think of FSF as a bunch of radical communists, but I think they are  
pretty staunch defenders of a freedom that we would be loathe to lose.


Allan

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[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free

[nicholas . g . lawrence]

 PS. What is the correct term for software that doesn't cost anything
but
 is closed (like MultiSpec and 3DEM)? Freeware?

gratisware

nick



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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free

[Tim Bowden]

On Mon, 2007-03-05 at 13:26 -0500, Frank Warmerdam wrote:
 ross s wrote:
  Just to add a bit more spice to the discussion.  I think the root 
  problem here is a definition amoung open source purists.  Jeff Thurston 
  has added some interesting points to his blog (below).
  
  ---
  So? is your ?free? more pure than my ?free?? Is there a ?free-o-meter? 
  or something about?
 
 Folks,
 
 Yes, there is a free-o-meter.  If the licensing of software meetings the
 requirements of the open source definition then the software is free (in
 the open source sense).  Otherwise it is just not.
 
 I have no problem with workshops about mixing free (aka open source) and
 proprietary software.  Lots and lots of foss software works with Oracle, so
 show that link in action!  But I don't feel the conference should have
 substantial content that is strictly proprietary without so much as an
 open source fig-leaf.
 
 The lack of understanding of what we mean by free just demonstrates the
 need for additional outreach by OSGeo.
 
 Best regards,

+1.  I came to OSGeo because I wanted FREE (as in freedom) solutions for
my geospatial needs.  I want to be able to deliver FREE (as in freedom)
solutions to my clients.  Free as in beer is nice, but free as in speech
is mandatory for me.  That doesn't mean I won't inter-operate with
proprietary solutions, or aren't interested in finding out how to
inter-operate; I am interested.  Inter-operation between free and
proprietary solutions is a reality.  But it does mean I won't advocate
for a proprietary solution.  If that's what suits a clients needs best,
then I will point them to someone who can give it to them.  I won't.
I've had too much experience with proprietary solutions and the pain
that causes to want to go there again or to put someone else there.
I've had too much experience with FOSS to ignore the benefits it brings.

To bring this back to the topic of the thread, if the oracle demo is
just showcasing a proprietary solution (free as in beer or otherwise)
that happens to use a few token free components, then I'm not
interested.  If it shows how to inter-operate existing proprietary
systems with FOSS systems and helps me put my clients back in control of
their own systems, then I'm interested.  The main focus of the conf
though, should be on a fully free stack.  Without that, we are just
pissing in the wind if you will pardon the expression.

Regards,
Tim Bowden

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free

[Zachary L. Stauber]

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I agree with Perry.  There are a lot of free/lite/express versions of GIS
software that are perfectly usable for small businesses or the non-profit
neo-cartographer such as Tatuk Viewer, ArcExplorer, OracleXE, and GoogleEarth.
 Because they are useful, they're going to be part of the tools of a lot of
people whether FOSS4G takes them into the fold or not, so we might as well.

Personally I'd like to see, exactly, how to connect up OracleXE with MS4W in a
demo at FOSS4G, so I say if they integrate with everything else well, let 'em
show it.  It may get some support out of folks like ESRI, too.  After all,
they've released many of the formats that became open standards, like SHP files,
BIL images, and I think they were instrumental in coming up with the WKT for
coordinate systems.

-Zack

Pericles S. Nacionales wrote:
 I agree that it is an OSGeo conference and OSGeo promotes free and open
 source software.  If Oracle can demonstrate how their product
 works/integrates with open source geospatial software then I don't have
 a problem with that.
 
 -Perry
 
 Jason Birch wrote:
 You know, I'd actually be in favour of this workshop if it showed how
 Oracle can be integrated with open source geospatial applications (web
 mapping, etc).  This is the kind of thing that many organisations need
 to gradually integrate open source into their stacks.

 As it stands, it shows how to integrate a free beer proprietary
 application with an expensive-beer application, and I am personally not
 in favour of it.  This is a Free and Open Source conference not a
 Free or Open Source conference.

 Jason

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free

[Jody Garnett]

Paulo Marcondes wrote:

On another related point, I am always careful with corporate
workshops/lectures/whatever, as they too often tend to be more of the
advertising than the technical type.
There is going to be a demo pit for such things - and hopefully a wide 
range of products from all walks of life.

Jody
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free

[Bart van den Eijnden (OSGIS)]

As Jody points out, isn't the OTN Development License only useful for 
creating prototypes and doing development?


We grant you a nonexclusive, nontransferable limited license to use the 
programs only for the purpose of developing a single prototype of your 
application, and not for any other purpose.  If you use the application 
you develop under this license for any internal data processing or for 
any commercial or production purposes, or you want to use the programs 
for any purpose other than as permitted under this agreement, you must 
contact us, or an Oracle reseller, to obtain the appropriate license. 


Best regards,
Bart

Jody Garnett schreef:

So is the conference about Free and Open Source software ...
or Free and Open Source software ...

(*cough*  
http://www.amazon.com/Eats-Shoots-Leaves-Tolerance-Punctuation/dp/1592400876 
)


Looking at MapViewer pages - trying to see if I can download the 
source code:

- http://www.oracle.com/technology/software/products/mapviewer/index.html

I can download an EAR file (but need the usual I am not a terrorist 
disclaimer) and Oracle Technology Network Development License 
Agreement - not sure if that is an open source license or not?


It does have the following:

Open Source
Open Source software - software available without charge for use, 
modification and distribution - is often licensed under terms that 
require the user to make the user's modifications to the Open Source 
software or any software that the user 'combines' with the Open 
Source software freely available in source code form.  If you use 
Open Source software in conjunction with the programs, you must 
ensure that your use does not: (i) create, or purport to create, 
obligations of us with respect to the Oracle programs; or (ii) grant, 
or purport to grant, to any third party any rights to or immunities 
under our intellectual property or proprietary rights in the Oracle 
programs.  For example, you may not develop a software program using 
an Oracle program and an Open Source program where such use results 
in a program file(s) that contains code from both the Oracle program 
and the Open Source program (including without limitation libraries) 
if the Open Source program is licensed under a license that requires 
any modifications be made freely available.  You also may not 
combine the Oracle program with programs licensed under the GNU 
General Public License (GPL) in any manner that could cause, or 
could be interpreted or asserted to cause, the Oracle program or any 
modifications thereto to become subject to the terms of the GPL.
Bleck; I just wish they would publish their jdbc drivers in a maven 
repository some where and get out of my way. Nice database - shame 
about the source code.

Jody

Jody
Oracle has submitted this workshop proposal to the Free and Open 
Source Software for Geospatial 2007 Conference.


This workshop describes how to use Oracle Database Express Edition 
(XE) and Oracle MapViewer to develop a simple yet powerful geospatial 
web application called “Geo Tags”. Documents (photos, pdf or word 
docs, video clips) are geo-tagged and stored in the database. 
MapViewer displays the locations referenced in the geo-tags and 
retrieves documents at, or within, a user specified location.




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--
Bart van den Eijnden
OSGIS, Open Source GIS
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.osgis.nl

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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free

[Aaron Racicot]

I am just in favor of Paul supplying free beer...

++
 Aaron Racicot - GIS Programmer   
 360.221.2441 - [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
++

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Ramsey
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 11:51 AM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free

Paulo Marcondes wrote:

 Paul, as for RMS, while I do not agree all the time with him, we need
 to have the speech/beer issue quite clear at all times. And we have to
 take a stand (at least on a personal basis - mine is speech)

The term free as used by this community is jargon 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jargon, plain and simple, completely 
transparent to those in-the-know, opaque to outsiders. The workshop 
submission is just a clear example of that.

-- 

   Paul Ramsey
   Refractions Research
   http://www.refractions.net
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Phone: 250-383-3022
   Cell: 250-885-0632
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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free

[Michael P. Gerlek]

Or just say OSI-compliant -- since that's what OSGeo's charter says..?

-mpg

 

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ned Horning
 Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 12:12 PM
 To: 'OSGeo Discussions'
 Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free
 
 Paul Ramsey wrote:
  
  The term free as used by this community is jargon
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jargon, plain and simple, completely
  transparent to those in-the-know, opaque to outsiders. The workshop
  submission is just a clear example of that.
  
 Would dropping Free and just using Open Source in the 
 future make it
 transparent to everyone? 
 
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free

[Paul Ramsey]

Ned Horning wrote:

Paul Ramsey wrote:

The term free as used by this community is jargon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jargon, plain and simple, completely
transparent to those in-the-know, opaque to outsiders. The workshop
submission is just a clear example of that.


Would dropping Free and just using Open Source in the future make it
transparent to everyone? 


Transparent to everyone, but not necessarily acceptable to everyone :)


--

  Paul Ramsey
  Refractions Research
  http://www.refractions.net
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Phone: 250-383-3022
  Cell: 250-885-0632
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free

[Pericles S. Nacionales]

I agree that it is an OSGeo conference and OSGeo promotes free and open 
source software.  If Oracle can demonstrate how their product 
works/integrates with open source geospatial software then I don't have 
a problem with that.


-Perry

Jason Birch wrote:

You know, I'd actually be in favour of this workshop if it showed how
Oracle can be integrated with open source geospatial applications (web
mapping, etc).  This is the kind of thing that many organisations need
to gradually integrate open source into their stacks.

As it stands, it shows how to integrate a free beer proprietary
application with an expensive-beer application, and I am personally not
in favour of it.  This is a Free and Open Source conference not a
Free or Open Source conference.

Jason

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Ramsey
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 11:23
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free

Attendees are not just developers of free software, there are lots of
people just looking to solve problems in a low-cost way. Some of those
low cost solutions are free, others are free. My guess is that the
proposed workshop would be heavily attended.

Allan Doyle wrote:
  
There are plenty of places Oracle can demo or hold a workshop. There 
are not so many places developers of Free and Open Source Software can



  

do the same.

Let the non-free companies come and learn about FOSS. I'm not sure we 
have to teach the FOSS developers about non-free software.




  

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