Re: Can we move the activity on this list to the Forum now?
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Re: Google Groups contingency plan
django-developers/CAMyDDM11_f%2Btw%2BaoH-ztbFFiQjOyGu5MiZTQCkU7V0c1M9JX5g%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/EDACC872-19A1-4594-B28A-C9311F4C519C%40tomforb.es > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/EDACC872-19A1-4594-B28A-C9311F4C519C%40tomforb.es?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/A92DE446-4C3E-440C-BE53-D497CE6E125B%40gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/A92DE446-4C3E-440C-BE53-D497CE6E125B%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- Alex Krupp Cell: (607) 351 2671 Read my Email: www.fwdeveryone.com/u/alex3917 Subscribe to my blog: http://alexkrupp.typepad.com/ My homepage: www.alexkrupp.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CAFPcxMAFfyfZj0ZjMNQkrQ0DgwOeNWSKAMNtFToLm96M7S0j-g%40mail.gmail.com.
Re: revisiting the Python version support policy
The biggest issues with beginners I see at events like Django Girls or just regular Python meetups involve people needing to edit their .bash_profile or .bashrc files. Most people can figure out how to download the right version of Python for their platform, but then their shell to actually use that version of Python is where things go sideways. Same thing with setting the DJANGO_SETTINGS_MODULE. The basic issues are: - Figuring out which version of python3 your interpreter is using (and even knowing you need to know that) - Knowing how to open the appropriate shell settings file, add the right line in the right place, and save it. (Especially since if there is already stuff there, beginners aren't going to have any idea what any of it is doing which only adds to the confusion.) - Knowing they need to open a new terminal window or source the settings file. - Knowing how to read the error message if something went wrong, and the fix whatever the problem is. - Knowing how to actually install Django... E.g. pip vs pip3, to sudo or not to sudo, etc. - Knowing what version of Django to install. E.g. beginners mostly aren't going to know what LTS stands for or understand the implications of that. For beginners, just getting to the point where running the development server doesn't throw an error is probably harder than the rest of the tutorial combined. So I think making it as easy as possible for beginners is a real issue that should be prioritized. As an anecdote, the only reason why Reddit is built on Postgres instead of MySQL is that they couldn't figure out how to get MySQL installed and running. That being said, my understanding is that there are a bunch of API changes to Python's async modules between Python 3.5 and 3.6, and I know having async functionality in Django is a big deal for a lot of people. If there's money to pay people to work on that full time then it doesn't matter as much, but if there isn't then I'm assuming a lot of that work will probably get pushed back a year to when it'll at least be less work, which is potentially problematic if it's already going to be a multiyear project as is. While async itself doesn't especially impact me at this point, obviously everyone benefits from having smart people in the larger Python/Django community to create and maintain the packages we all depend on, and I worry about losing folks to node or golang. I'm not a core developer or otherwise especially active so I could be just misreading to the situation here, but as a casual observer this seems like a bigger risk... Even if getting Django up and running properly is a real pain point for beginners, which it is, it's at least getting easier every year because there are more people and places (both IRL and online) to ask for help. Whereas we've seen a lot of posts recently both on this list and from other folks in the Python community about burn out, and so at least for me doing what we can to ameliorate this by reducing the time it takes to add new features and maintain existing ones is what I would personally prioritize over 3.5 support. Anyway sorry for bikeshedding into this, just wanted to bring up a couple points that weren't mentioned previously. On Saturday, January 26, 2019 at 5:15:36 PM UTC-5, Rotund wrote: > > Carlton, > > I read your response, and I think what you said is very important. I would > like to ask you a few questions, if you don't mind. I'm not trying to back > you into a corner; I'm trying to understand what you see with your teaching > and getting insight from that. > > Do you think it makes sense to have beginners working off non-LTS > versions? Personally, I think the LTS is the version that beginner's should > run. They're "real" projects are likely to take longer, and they aren't > going to want to track the latest and greatest. I also think that any > non-LTS version of the docs should have a similar heading to the dev > version to suggest that beginners likely would benefit from using the > latest LTS version. > > How many people coming to your trainings are running a stable/enterprise > Linux distro? It's pretty quick to get the right version for Windows. As > far as Linux, I would expect to see mainly the big couple Linux distros. > The more esoteric rolling releases should obviously be fine due to their > rolling nature. Therefore, I want to just do an analysis. As far as > supported Ubuntu releases go, 18.04LTS and all supported non-LTS are fine. > Ubuntu 16.04 and 14.04 are both LTS version and still supported by > Canonical. I believe Mint still follows Ubuntu. As far as Debian, testing > and unstable have 3.7, but stable has 3.5.3. As far as Fedora, Version 26 > and above have python 3.6 or newer. I believe we've discussed RHEL/CentOS, > but it appears that anything before 8 doesn't have Python 3 at all, and the > CentOS7 SCL has Python 3.6 in it. I don't know which other Linux distros > are s
Re: Django 2.0 Python version support (Python 3.6+ only?)
One platform that only supports up to Python 3.4 ElasticBeanstalk with Amazon Linux. A few months ago they said they were going to release a new AMI, but that hasn't happened yet. I'm personally happy seeing support for 3.4 dropped and possibly just waiting a few months to upgrade to Django 2.0. But the staff at the AWS popup lofts have been saying that they look at the number of support tickets in deciding when to cut new AMI releases, so if other people care about this then maybe it would be a good time to start filing tickets. On Tuesday, December 27, 2016 at 10:12:57 AM UTC-5, Tim Graham wrote: > > When I drafted the 1.11 release notes in May, I wrote, "The next major > release, Django 2.0, will only support Python 3.5+." > > Our Python version support policy is "Typically, we will support a Python > version up to and including the first Django LTS release whose security > support ends after security support for that version of Python ends." > > Python 3.5's EOL is September 2020 which I think is sufficiently close to > Django 1.11's EOL of April 2020 that we could say Django 2.0 is Python > 3.6+. The alternative is not to drop Python 3.5 compatibility until Django > 2.2 LTS which is supported until April 2022. I don't see much advantage to > that. Any objections? > > p.s. There is already a ticket suggesting to take advantage of a Python > 3.6 feature: > https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/27635* - *django.utils.crypto > should use secrets on Python 3.6+ > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to django-developers@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/django-developers. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/a0e9916b-858b-471c-a7f5-075ba74d8604%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
