Re: [DNG] Packaging Vdev

2016-03-19 Thread Steve Litt 
I agree with Stephanie.

If a person wants to run sans-initramfs, we don't want to make it
harder for him/her.

SteveT

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On Sat, 19 Mar 2016 19:24:48 +
Stephanie Daugherty  wrote:

> I would argue vdev belongs in  / rather than /usr because it is
> likely to be necessary to mount filesystems and such.
> 
> The split is somewhat arbitrary these days but historically things
> needed during the boot process and to repair the system have gone
> in / while less essential bits have gone into /usr
> 
> People do still partition that way sometimes so it's a good idea not
> to break the system for them :)
> 
> On Sat, Mar 19, 2016, 14:14 Rainer Weikusat
>  wrote:
> 
> > aitor_czr  writes:  
> > > By default, PSTAT (a dependency of VDEV) is installed in
> > > "/usr/local", just as VDEV.
> > >
> > > As Daniel Raurich explained in another thread:
> > >
> > > [...] the "/usr/local" directory is for non-packaged local stuff
> > > [...]
> > >
> > > So, should i change this configuration for those packages, or
> > > should i skip debhelper's "dh_usrlocal" script adding:
> > >
> > > binary:
> > > dh binary --before dh_usrlocal
> > > dh binary --after dh_usrlocal
> > >
> > > to debian/rules?  
> >
> > To which degree this actually makes a difference would be a good
> > question but the convention-so-far has been that distribution
> > provided stuff goes into / or /usr and that /usr/local can be used
> > as seen fit by whoever controls/ administrates a particular
> > installation. If the packaged vdev is supposed to become an
> > integral part of the OS/ distribution, it should honour the
> > existing convention unless there's a good reason for not doing this.
> > ___
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Re: [DNG] Packaging Vdev

2016-03-19 Thread Steve Litt 
On Sun, 20 Mar 2016 08:57:20 +1300
Daniel Reurich  wrote:

> On 20/03/16 08:24, Stephanie Daugherty wrote:

> > The split is somewhat arbitrary these days but historically things 
> > needed during the boot process and to repair the system have gone
> > in / while less essential bits have gone into /usr  
> 
> I don't think the split is arbitrary, although some have worked hard
> to break that structure and smear the history and wisdom of that
> design.

And who might those "some" be who worked hard to break that structure?
Have those same people broken anything else, by any chance?

:-)

SteveT

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Re: [DNG] Packaging Vdev

2016-03-19 Thread Steve Litt 
On Sat, 19 Mar 2016 15:26:49 -0400
Steve Litt  wrote:

> On Sat, 19 Mar 2016 19:05:20 +0100
> aitor_czr  wrote:
> 
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > By default, PSTAT (a dependency of VDEV) is installed in
> > "/usr/local", just as VDEV.
> > 
> > As Daniel Raurich explained in another thread:
> > 
> > [...] the "/usr/local" directory is for non-packaged local stuff
> > [...]
> > 
> > So, should i change this configuration for those packages, or should
> > i skip debhelper's "dh_usrlocal" script adding:
> > 
> > binary:
> >  dh binary --before dh_usrlocal
> >  dh binary --after dh_usrlocal
> > 
> > to debian/rules?
> > 
> > Thanks in advance,
> > 
> > Aitor.  
> 
> This is pure opinion: Get a second opinion:
> 
> My understanding is that /usr/local is the base of the tree used for
> software *not* installed by the distro's package manager. When I
> compile my own dmenu or lyx, it goes under the /usr/local directory,
> with all executables going in /usr/local/bin.
> 
> My understanding is that the distro's package manager never puts
> anything in the /usr/local tree. If the thing is an executable, it
> goes in /usr/bin. Libraries go in /usr/lib. Header files go
> in /usr/include. Fonts and themes and other stuff like that goes
> in /usr/share.
> 
> If /usr/local/VDEV is a directory, I'd imagine you'd farm out its
> files to the directories listed in the preceding paragraph. If VDEV
> is an executable, it would go in /usr/bin, or perhaps /sbin
> or /usr/sbin.
> 
> Like I say, I'm the world's least authoritative person when it comes
> to package managers, but if I've understood what I've heard others,
> the preceding pretty much sums up what to do.

Stephanie later brought up a reason why it should be on /sbin or
something else always on the root partition, so ignore what I said.

SteveT

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Re: [DNG] Dng Digest, Vol 18, Issue 42

2016-03-19 Thread David Harrison 

On 16/03/2016 21:30, dng-requ...@lists.dyne.org wrote:

WARNING: Regardless of David's intent, which I assume is benign, the
preceding paragraph is solicitation to commit felony copyright
infringement. Nobody should email proprietary software to others,
without a written OK from the copyright holder. This kind of request
should never be made on any kind of mailing list.

Thanks,

SteveT


With respect, Steve, what on earth do you mean? I asked if someone would 
mail me *their own* replacement stub program that they use *in place* of 
a proprietary executable. So yes, my intent is benign and is not counter 
to any copyright.


David
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Re: [DNG] Packaging Vdev

2016-03-19 Thread Daniel Reurich 


On 20 March 2016 9:07:48 AM NZDT, Didier Kryn  wrote:
>Le 19/03/2016 21:01, Daniel Reurich a écrit :
>> On 20/03/16 08:56, Didier Kryn wrote:
>>> >Le 19/03/2016 19:05, aitor_czr a écrit :
 >>Hi all,
 >>
 >>By default, PSTAT (a dependency of VDEV) is installed in
>"/usr/local",
 >>just as VDEV.
 >>
 >>As Daniel Raurich explained in another thread:
 >>
 >>[...] the "/usr/local" directory is for non-packaged local stuff
>[...]
 >>
 >>So, should i change this configuration for those packages, or
>should i
 >>skip debhelper's "dh_usrlocal" script adding:
 >>
 >>binary:
 >> dh binary --before dh_usrlocal
 >> dh binary --after dh_usrlocal
 >>
 >>to debian/rules?
 >>
 >>Thanks in advance,
 >>
 >>Aitor.
 >>
 >>
>>> >
>>> > Jude organized the package like this for people to test it on
>>> >running systems without interfering with the existing hotplugger.
>Vdev
>>> >would create device files and other descriptive files under
>>> >/usr/local/dev. But, of course it was not meant to remain like this
>if
>>> >Vdev was to be the hotplugger in charge.
>>> >
>>> > If it's worth, you might leave it like this until you can get
>it to
>>> >work and then switch to a normal file hierarchy when ready.
>>> >
>> I strongly disagree.  If it's to be packaged, it should be packaged
>> properly in keeping with Debian policies (which Devuan has adopted)
>with
>> regards to FHS and location of parts.
>>
>> Vdev being an essential system tool should be in the root hierarchy.
>
> I fully agree with you; therefore I don't understand in what you 
>disagree :-)
>

You were just suggesting that it would be ok to "leave it like this until you 
can get
it to work and then switch to a normal file hierarchy when ready".

I'm just stating that I disagree with your premise that creating a package that 
breaks policy is acceptable "until you can get it to work".  

If vdev doesn't work already then it's to early to be packaging it.  However 
indications are that it does work and thus it should be properly packaged.

As for testing it should minimally be able to be used successfully debootstrap 
a new system and also to replace udev on a running system without seriously 
breaking anything.  

Once it does that we should put it in experimental for wider testing.

Daniel
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Re: [DNG] Packaging Vdev

2016-03-19 Thread Hendrik Boom 
On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 09:01:32AM +1300, Daniel Reurich wrote:
> On 20/03/16 08:56, Didier Kryn wrote:
> > 
> > Jude organized the package like this for people to test it on
> > running systems without interfering with the existing hotplugger. Vdev
> > would create device files and other descriptive files under
> > /usr/local/dev. But, of course it was not meant to remain like this if
> > Vdev was to be the hotplugger in charge.
> > 
> > If it's worth, you might leave it like this until you can get it to
> > work and then switch to a normal file hierarchy when ready.
> > 
> I strongly disagree.  If it's to be packaged, it should be packaged
> properly in keeping with Debian policies (which Devuan has adopted) with
> regards to FHS and location of parts.
> 
> Vdev being an essential system tool should be in the root hierarchy.

It isn't an essential system tool until it works.  So if it'sstill 
being tested, it better not be essential. 

Still, I'm eagerly awaiting the package, essential or not.

-- hendrik
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Re: [DNG] Packaging Vdev

2016-03-19 Thread Hendrik Boom 
On Sat, Mar 19, 2016 at 07:24:48PM +, Stephanie Daugherty wrote:
> I would argue vdev belongs in  / rather than /usr because it is likely to
> be necessary to mount filesystems and such.
> 
> The split is somewhat arbitrary these days but historically things needed
> during the boot process and to repair the system have gone in / while less
> essential bits have gone into /usr
> 
> People do still partition that way sometimes so it's a good idea not to
> break the system for them :)

My server has been running that way for years, with /usr containing 
only things not needed during boot. 

Isn't requiring /usr to hae been mounted for booting a systemd-ism?

-- hendrik
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Re: [DNG] sup - a "small is beautiful" tool for UNIX privilege escalation

2016-03-19 Thread Jim Murphy 
On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:14 AM, Jaromil  wrote:
>
> dear devuaneers, suckless hackers and friends of simplicity
>
--- clipped
>
> Basically sup is an hard-coded sudo.
>
> I adopted the software (wrote a mail to pancake, pending response) and

 clipped the rest

Hi,

As an FYI:  "sup" is not a unique name.

sup[1] Software Upgrade Protocol version 20100519-1

There is a name conflict with this package.  There doesn't appear
to be any active development[2], but there may be a few users[3].
You can find sup in wheezy, jessie, stretch and sid.

[1] https://packages.debian.org/jessie/sup
[2] https://packages.qa.debian.org/s/sup.html
[3] https://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=sup

Again, FYI.

Jim
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Re: [DNG] Packaging Vdev

2016-03-19 Thread Didier Kryn 

Le 19/03/2016 21:01, Daniel Reurich a écrit :

On 20/03/16 08:56, Didier Kryn wrote:

>Le 19/03/2016 19:05, aitor_czr a écrit :

>>Hi all,
>>
>>By default, PSTAT (a dependency of VDEV) is installed in "/usr/local",
>>just as VDEV.
>>
>>As Daniel Raurich explained in another thread:
>>
>>[...] the "/usr/local" directory is for non-packaged local stuff [...]
>>
>>So, should i change this configuration for those packages, or should i
>>skip debhelper's "dh_usrlocal" script adding:
>>
>>binary:
>> dh binary --before dh_usrlocal
>> dh binary --after dh_usrlocal
>>
>>to debian/rules?
>>
>>Thanks in advance,
>>
>>Aitor.
>>
>>

>
> Jude organized the package like this for people to test it on
>running systems without interfering with the existing hotplugger. Vdev
>would create device files and other descriptive files under
>/usr/local/dev. But, of course it was not meant to remain like this if
>Vdev was to be the hotplugger in charge.
>
> If it's worth, you might leave it like this until you can get it to
>work and then switch to a normal file hierarchy when ready.
>

I strongly disagree.  If it's to be packaged, it should be packaged
properly in keeping with Debian policies (which Devuan has adopted) with
regards to FHS and location of parts.

Vdev being an essential system tool should be in the root hierarchy.


I fully agree with you; therefore I don't understand in what you 
disagree :-)


Didier

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Re: [DNG] Packaging Vdev

2016-03-19 Thread Daniel Reurich 
On 20/03/16 08:56, Didier Kryn wrote:
> Le 19/03/2016 19:05, aitor_czr a écrit :
>> Hi all,
>>
>> By default, PSTAT (a dependency of VDEV) is installed in "/usr/local",
>> just as VDEV.
>>
>> As Daniel Raurich explained in another thread:
>>
>> [...] the "/usr/local" directory is for non-packaged local stuff [...]
>>
>> So, should i change this configuration for those packages, or should i
>> skip debhelper's "dh_usrlocal" script adding:
>>
>> binary:
>> dh binary --before dh_usrlocal
>> dh binary --after dh_usrlocal
>>
>> to debian/rules?
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>>Aitor.
>>
>>
> 
> Jude organized the package like this for people to test it on
> running systems without interfering with the existing hotplugger. Vdev
> would create device files and other descriptive files under
> /usr/local/dev. But, of course it was not meant to remain like this if
> Vdev was to be the hotplugger in charge.
> 
> If it's worth, you might leave it like this until you can get it to
> work and then switch to a normal file hierarchy when ready.
> 
I strongly disagree.  If it's to be packaged, it should be packaged
properly in keeping with Debian policies (which Devuan has adopted) with
regards to FHS and location of parts.

Vdev being an essential system tool should be in the root hierarchy.

-- 
Daniel Reurich
Centurion Computer Technology (2005) Ltd.
021 797 722



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Re: [DNG] Packaging Vdev

2016-03-19 Thread Daniel Reurich 
On 20/03/16 08:24, Stephanie Daugherty wrote:
> I would argue vdev belongs in  / rather than /usr because it is 
> likely to be necessary to mount filesystems and such.

I absolutely agree it should go in /
> 
> The split is somewhat arbitrary these days but historically things 
> needed during the boot process and to repair the system have gone in 
> / while less essential bits have gone into /usr

I don't think the split is arbitrary, although some have worked hard to
break that structure and smear the history and wisdom of that design.

> People do still partition that way sometimes so it's a good idea not 
> to break the system for them :)

Indeed.  Thor

> 
> On Sat, Mar 19, 2016, 14:14 Rainer Weikusat 
>  > wrote:
> 
> aitor_czr > 
> writes:
>> By default, PSTAT (a dependency of VDEV) is installed in 
>> "/usr/local", just as VDEV.
>> 
>> As Daniel Raurich explained in another thread:
>> 
>> [...] the "/usr/local" directory is for non-packaged local stuff 
>> [...]
>> 
>> So, should i change this configuration for those packages, or 
>> should i skip debhelper's "dh_usrlocal" script adding:
>> 
>> binary: dh binary --before dh_usrlocal dh binary --after 
>> dh_usrlocal
>> 
>> to debian/rules?
> 
> To which degree this actually makes a difference would be a good 
> question but the convention-so-far has been that distribution 
> provided stuff goes into / or /usr and that /usr/local can be used
> as seen fit by whoever controls/ administrates a particular 
> installation. If the packaged vdev is supposed to become an integral 
> part of the OS/ distribution, it should honour the existing 
> convention unless there's a good reason for not doing this. 
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Centurion Computer Technology (2005) Ltd.
021 797 722





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Re: [DNG] Packaging Vdev

2016-03-19 Thread Didier Kryn 

Le 19/03/2016 19:05, aitor_czr a écrit :

Hi all,

By default, PSTAT (a dependency of VDEV) is installed in "/usr/local", 
just as VDEV.


As Daniel Raurich explained in another thread:

[...] the "/usr/local" directory is for non-packaged local stuff [...]

So, should i change this configuration for those packages, or should i 
skip debhelper's "dh_usrlocal" script adding:


binary:
dh binary --before dh_usrlocal
dh binary --after dh_usrlocal

to debian/rules?

Thanks in advance,

   Aitor.




Jude organized the package like this for people to test it on 
running systems without interfering with the existing hotplugger. Vdev 
would create device files and other descriptive files under 
/usr/local/dev. But, of course it was not meant to remain like this if 
Vdev was to be the hotplugger in charge.


If it's worth, you might leave it like this until you can get it to 
work and then switch to a normal file hierarchy when ready.


Didier

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Re: [DNG] Packaging Vdev

2016-03-19 Thread Stephanie Daugherty 
I would argue vdev belongs in  / rather than /usr because it is likely to
be necessary to mount filesystems and such.

The split is somewhat arbitrary these days but historically things needed
during the boot process and to repair the system have gone in / while less
essential bits have gone into /usr

People do still partition that way sometimes so it's a good idea not to
break the system for them :)

On Sat, Mar 19, 2016, 14:14 Rainer Weikusat 
wrote:

> aitor_czr  writes:
> > By default, PSTAT (a dependency of VDEV) is installed in "/usr/local",
> > just as VDEV.
> >
> > As Daniel Raurich explained in another thread:
> >
> > [...] the "/usr/local" directory is for non-packaged local stuff [...]
> >
> > So, should i change this configuration for those packages, or should i
> > skip debhelper's "dh_usrlocal" script adding:
> >
> > binary:
> > dh binary --before dh_usrlocal
> > dh binary --after dh_usrlocal
> >
> > to debian/rules?
>
> To which degree this actually makes a difference would be a good
> question but the convention-so-far has been that distribution provided
> stuff goes into / or /usr and that /usr/local can be used as seen fit by
> whoever controls/ administrates a particular installation. If the
> packaged vdev is supposed to become an integral part of the OS/
> distribution, it should honour the existing convention unless there's a
> good reason for not doing this.
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Re: [DNG] Packaging Vdev

2016-03-19 Thread Steve Litt 
On Sat, 19 Mar 2016 19:05:20 +0100
aitor_czr  wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> By default, PSTAT (a dependency of VDEV) is installed in
> "/usr/local", just as VDEV.
> 
> As Daniel Raurich explained in another thread:
> 
> [...] the "/usr/local" directory is for non-packaged local stuff [...]
> 
> So, should i change this configuration for those packages, or should
> i skip debhelper's "dh_usrlocal" script adding:
> 
> binary:
>  dh binary --before dh_usrlocal
>  dh binary --after dh_usrlocal
> 
> to debian/rules?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Aitor.

This is pure opinion: Get a second opinion:

My understanding is that /usr/local is the base of the tree used for
software *not* installed by the distro's package manager. When I
compile my own dmenu or lyx, it goes under the /usr/local directory,
with all executables going in /usr/local/bin.

My understanding is that the distro's package manager never puts
anything in the /usr/local tree. If the thing is an executable, it goes
in /usr/bin. Libraries go in /usr/lib. Header files go in /usr/include.
Fonts and themes and other stuff like that goes in /usr/share.

If /usr/local/VDEV is a directory, I'd imagine you'd farm out its files
to the directories listed in the preceding paragraph. If VDEV is an
executable, it would go in /usr/bin, or perhaps /sbin or /usr/sbin.

Like I say, I'm the world's least authoritative person when it comes to
package managers, but if I've understood what I've heard others, the
preceding pretty much sums up what to do.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
March 2016 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business
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Re: [DNG] sup - a "small is beautiful" tool for UNIX privilege escalation

2016-03-19 Thread Teodoro Santoni 
Hi,

Cool! Have you considered also to send pull requests
to the site repo or the sup git repository at suckless.org?
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Re: [DNG] Packaging Vdev

2016-03-19 Thread Rainer Weikusat 
aitor_czr  writes:
> By default, PSTAT (a dependency of VDEV) is installed in "/usr/local",
> just as VDEV.
>
> As Daniel Raurich explained in another thread:
>
> [...] the "/usr/local" directory is for non-packaged local stuff [...]
>
> So, should i change this configuration for those packages, or should i
> skip debhelper's "dh_usrlocal" script adding:
>
> binary:
> dh binary --before dh_usrlocal
> dh binary --after dh_usrlocal
>
> to debian/rules?

To which degree this actually makes a difference would be a good
question but the convention-so-far has been that distribution provided
stuff goes into / or /usr and that /usr/local can be used as seen fit by
whoever controls/ administrates a particular installation. If the
packaged vdev is supposed to become an integral part of the OS/
distribution, it should honour the existing convention unless there's a
good reason for not doing this.
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[DNG] sup - a "small is beautiful" tool for UNIX privilege escalation

2016-03-19 Thread Jaromil 

dear devuaneers, suckless hackers and friends of simplicity

In the past days we are working hard on Devuan, but also on our
dyne.org project Dowse whose prototype is based on an RPi version of
Devuan.

Thinkering on the security model in Dowse and other projects, parazyd
found the 'sup' tool to be ideal: originally written by the good folks
at suckless.org, its minimalist approach to privilege escalation is
enlightening in its simplicity.

Basically sup is an hard-coded sudo.

I adopted the software (wrote a mail to pancake, pending response) and
proceeded improving some things: added musl-libc production build
capability to defend the binary from LD_SO_PRELOAD attacks and also
added the optional sha256 hash check of binary files.

in the hope it will be useful, sup is available here (LGPLv3)

https://git.devuan.org/jaromil/sup

to stay up to date with future releases, one can also keep an eye here

http://freshcode.club/projects/sup

and for those who prefer github is mirrored also here

https://github.com/dyne/sup

here below I paste the README, happy hacking

-
# sup
## a "small is beautiful" tool for UNIX privilege escalation

sup is a very small and secure C application. it is designed to run as
root (with suid bit on) to facilitate the privilege escalation of
users to execute certain programs as superuser.

all settings in sup are hard-coded at compile time. sup is very
portable and self-contained, designed for production use as a static
binary. sup is a sort of hard-coded sudo: it is an ideal companion for
artisans building small containers and embedded systems.

the latest version of sup can be found on
https://git.devuan.org/jaromil/sup and on its mirrors at dyne.org and
github.com.

## why are you whispering?

as you may have realised already, sup is so minimal that all its
documentation is written lowercase. it was originally written in 2009
by pancake of nopcode.org and maintained until 2011 as part of the
suckless tools. in 2016 sup is being adopted by jaromil of dyne.org,
extending its features to support static build with
[http://www.musl-libc.org/](musl-libc) and hardcoded sha256 hashing of
binary files.

## configure

sup's configuration resides in config.h and should be set before
building. here below an intuitive example

```c
#define USER 1000
#define GROUP -1

#define SETUID 0
#define SETGID 0

#define CHROOT ""
#define CHRDIR ""

#define HASH 1

#define ENFORCE 1

static struct rule_t rules[] = {
// allow user to run these programs when found in path location
{ USER, GROUP, "whoami",   "/usr/bin/whoami", "" },
{ USER, GROUP, "ifconfig", "/sbin/ifconfig",  "" },
{ USER, GROUP, "ls",   "/bin/ls", "" },
{ USER, GROUP, "wifi", "/root/wifi.sh",   "" },
// allow to run id when found in PATH with matching hash
{ USER, GROUP, "id",   "*", "db533b77fc9e262209a46e0f.." },
 // allow to run any program found in PATH
{ USER, GROUP, "*","*"},
{ 0 }, // end of configuration
};
```
Fields are organized as following:

| UID | GUID | binary name | binary path | hash (optional) |

- `UID` is the numeric id which must own the binary for authorized
  execution
- `GID` is the numeric group id which must own the binary for
  authorized execution (can be -1 for none)
- `hash` can be computed before build using sha256sum (GNU coreutils)

using `sup -l` the configuration can be displayed at runtime.

## build

sup requires a C compiler and the GNU make tool to be built.

a simple `make` command will build a sup binary good enough for
evaluation purposes, with dynamic links to the libm and libc libraries
installed system-wide.

for production use sup should be built as a static binary: this is
easily done by first installing musl-libc in its default location and
then using the `make musl` command.

## technical details

sup consists of 3 files: sup.c is the main source and config.h is the
configuration, hardcoded at compile time. sha256.c is optional and
provides the hashing functionality if the define HASH is set.

sup is written in ANSI C with POSIX1.b compliancy for GNU/Linux and
BSD systems. it uses `setuid/gid` for privilege escalation and
`execv()` to launch processes as superuser.

## licensing

sup is copyleft software licensed as GNU Lesser Public License
(LGPLv3). when compiled with hashing capability, its license turns
into GNU GPLv2 because of the sha256 component.

```
sup is copyleft (c) 2009-2011 by pancake of nopcode.org
(c) 2016  by jaromil of dyne.org

the FIPS-180-2 sha-256 implementation optionally included in sup is
copyleft (c) 2001-2003 by Christophe Devine
```





-- 
Denis Roio aka Jaromil   http://Dyne.org think  tank
  CTO and co-founder  free/open source developer
加密  6113 D89C A825 C5CE DD02 C872 73B3 5DA5 4ACB 7D10

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Re: [DNG] Packaging Vdev

2016-03-19 Thread aitor_czr 

Hi all,

By default, PSTAT (a dependency of VDEV) is installed in "/usr/local", 
just as VDEV.


As Daniel Raurich explained in another thread:

[...] the "/usr/local" directory is for non-packaged local stuff [...]

So, should i change this configuration for those packages, or should i 
skip debhelper's "dh_usrlocal" script adding:


binary:
dh binary --before dh_usrlocal
dh binary --after dh_usrlocal

to debian/rules?

Thanks in advance,

   Aitor.


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[DNG] Popularity-contest for Devuan

2016-03-19 Thread Daniel Reurich 


We've released our own popularity-contest package that allows us to
track Devuan installs via http://popcon.debian.org

This package bumps the version number that adds the suffixes .devuan
(for jessie), .devuan.ascii or .devuan.ceres so that in the graph on
debian-popularity contest we can see our usage.

We encourage you to upgrade your popularity-contest package or install
it so that we can get a feel for the number of devuan installations in
production.

Once we have Jessie release out of the way we will update the package
again and add support for collecting stats for our own popcon webpage.

Regards,
Daniel.
-- 
Daniel Reurich
Centurion Computer Technology (2005) Ltd.
021 797 722



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Re: [DNG] Where to get beta?

2016-03-19 Thread hellekin 
On 03/17/2016 07:56 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
> 
> Where can I download Devuan's beta?
>

In the near future, as Mitt suggested ;o),
from https://devuan.org/ and https://files.devuan.org/.
For now, in Centurion_dan's pocket :)

Tip: for anything related to the Web, please report issues to
https://git.devuan.org/devuan-editors/devuan-www/issues.

> IMHO, right now, today, links should be placed at the very
> top of the current https://devuan.org website
>

Won't gonna happen.  Current devuan.org and future devuan.org are
completely different.  We're working towards beta, and that's happening
soon, so the current site is frozen (actually it's not, but we don't
really have time to ride both horses.)

How to join the mailing-list: isn't a link to
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng enough?

How to join the IRC channels: what else than telling they're on freenode
and linking to them?

How to download latest Devuan installer: for now it's manual, you need
to get it from files.devuan.org.  Once the beta release is out, you will
be able to *seed the torrent* with all images.  Download link(s) will be
available from devuan.org frontpage.

> showing how to join the mailing list, how to join the IRC channel(s),
> and how to download the beta and the latest alpha (4, isn't it?).
> 

- Information on the mailing-list, IRC, etc. will be available (from
/os/contact and /os/community AFAIR).
- Information how to download the beta will be accessible as well from
the front page.
- Information about alpha4 will be deprecated, so no link.

We're still discussing how to handle the files.devuan.org to optimize
our distribution scheme.  Keeping older releases is interesting for
historical research purpose, but quite dangerous for production use.

So in files.devuan.org we're probably provide only the latest version of
a release (meaning, IMO, for JESSIE, 1.0-beta when it's out will replace
and obsolete alpha releases that will only be accessible through
archives, and not supported.)

This is to account for software obsolescence: we don't want to encourage
installation of compromised software if we can encourage the
installation of up-to-date software.

Package archives will work as usual, including obsolete packages.
Simply the front-end will encourage using the up-to-date installers.

Regards,

==
hk

-- 
 _ _ We are free to share code and we code to share freedom
(_X_)yne Foundation, Free Culture Foundry * https://www.dyne.org/donate/
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[DNG] On-Topic discussion of Off-Topic discussions and material

2016-03-19 Thread Steven W. Scott 
Hello all,
I've been following this list since the early inception of Devuan,
have contributed to the project financially, and enjoy very much the
information and insight found here. I generally don't post unless I have
something to contribute in some way, even if it's just opinion.

I understand the need to keep the list on-subject and focused, and
sometimes the discussion drifts and sways into side-topics, but generally
those trail off in short time.

I think folks have done a pretty good job of curbing discussions that
forever stray into deep brush to this point, but it seems recently some
individuals have appointed themselves to hall-monitor status and have,
frankly, made this list appear unfriendly and hostile.

The problem with declaring something off-topic is that it can be highly
subjective, and influenced by a person's particular point of view and/or
opinions. For example, in my mind, Windows and systemd are cousins, same
goals, same methods, same genetic disposition, so most discussion involving
the failure of either to allow choice seems relevant to me.

In the spirit of cooperation and to lay down an initial baseline of what is
definitely considered off-topic, I would like to propose that any
discussion, material, links, or tags that are included in any post which
are solely designed to promote, for profit, an individual's business,
website, publication, application, or other media be removed as off-topic,
and if the individual continues to post self-promoting material, ultimately
banned from posting to this list.

I believe that is a fair and reasonable baseline to start from.
Additionally, a clear delineation of approved list admins would curtail
much vigilantism that only serves to make the board appear to be a social
clique. You don't have to look far to find discussions that may be viewed
as off-topic which involve much of the same people who have declared
something else off-topic.

Respectfully,

Steven W. Scott
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Re: [DNG] Dng Digest, Vol 18, Issue 42

2016-03-19 Thread Didier Kryn 

Le 16/03/2016 23:02, David Harrison a écrit :
With respect, Steve, what on earth do you mean? I asked if someone 
would mail me *their own* replacement stub program that they use *in 
place* of a proprietary executable. So yes, my intent is benign and is 
not counter to any copyright.


I'm sorry, but the subject of your mail is not related with the 
matter you discuss, and the matter you discuss has nothing to do in a 
Linux mailing list.


Could you please take control over your mail agent and discuss this 
far off-topic subject privately.


Didier

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Re: [DNG] Microsoft upgrades Windows 7 to 10 without permission

2016-03-19 Thread David Harrison 

On 16/03/2016 10:49, dng-requ...@lists.dyne.org wrote:

I Dropped back to 7, created a .exe that simply returns to OS, and then
replaced c:\Windows\system32\GWX\GWX.exe and c\Windows\SysWOW64\GWX\GWX.exe
with my NOP code.


Would it be possible to share that .exe off-list? It would come in very 
handy with killing the nags on my own Win7 box.


Cheers,

David H
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Re: [DNG] Where to get beta?

2016-03-19 Thread Steve Litt 
On Fri, 18 Mar 2016 15:01:57 +
hellekin  wrote:

> On 03/17/2016 07:56 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
> > 
> > Where can I download Devuan's beta?
> >  
> 
> In the near future, as Mitt suggested ;o),
> from https://devuan.org/ and https://files.devuan.org/.
> For now, in Centurion_dan's pocket :)
> 
> Tip: for anything related to the Web, please report issues to
> https://git.devuan.org/devuan-editors/devuan-www/issues.
> 
> > IMHO, right now, today, links should be placed at the very
> > top of the current https://devuan.org website
> >  
> 
> Won't gonna happen.  Current devuan.org and future devuan.org are
> completely different.  We're working towards beta, and that's
> happening soon, so the current site is frozen (actually it's not, but
> we don't really have time to ride both horses.)

OK. I suggest that prominent links to download, mailing list and IRC be
placed at the top of the FUTURE devuan.org.

> 
> How to join the mailing-list: isn't a link to
> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng enough?

It would be, if prominent. But it was the 13th out of 18 similar looking
links distributed throughout a 1000 word document. When someone is
going to a Free Software website, most want to immediately ask one of
these questions:

* What's going on here?
* How do I communicate with the community?
* How do I download various versions?
* How do I donate?

In my opinion, links to the answers of those four questions should go
at the top of the home page, displayed prominently, so that a
prospective user doesn't say to himself tl;dr and move on.

> 
> How to join the IRC channels: what else than telling they're on
> freenode and linking to them?

Again, in the middle of a 1000 line document.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
March 2016 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business
http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz
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Re: [DNG] sup - a "small is beautiful" tool for UNIX privilege escalation

2016-03-19 Thread Dave Turner 

On 17/03/16 17:32, Jim Murphy wrote:

On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:14 AM, Jaromil  wrote:

dear devuaneers, suckless hackers and friends of simplicity


--- clipped

Basically sup is an hard-coded sudo.

I adopted the software (wrote a mail to pancake, pending response) and

 clipped the rest

Hi,

As an FYI:  "sup" is not a unique name.

sup[1] Software Upgrade Protocol version 20100519-1

There is a name conflict with this package.  There doesn't appear
to be any active development[2], but there may be a few users[3].
You can find sup in wheezy, jessie, stretch and sid.

[1] https://packages.debian.org/jessie/sup
[2] https://packages.qa.debian.org/s/sup.html
[3] https://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=sup

Again, FYI.

Jim
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Would anybody like to do a compare and contrast with 'doas' in OpenBSD?
OpenBSD were so vexed by sudo they ditched it and started from scratch.

I like to 'go with the flow' and so I suggest doas and we port that to 
linux unless anybody could find a really good reason why it would be a 
bad idea.

Guaranteed free of systemd too!


DaveT
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Re: [DNG] Raspberry Pi 2 devuan image

2016-03-19 Thread Ozi Traveller 
All fixed! Now I'm happily building my devuan raspberry pi image! Wahoo!

On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 10:23 PM, aitor_czr  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 03/16/16 11:49, Gregory Nowak   wrote:
>
> On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 06:24:08AM +1100, Ozi Traveller wrote:
>
> > I'm hoping you might be able to tell me how move passed this error? I have> 
> > devuan-keyring installed, it should build otherwise. I've already built a> 
> > bootable debian image with the script so I know it works.> > Thanks
>
> I'm not Aitor ... Are you using debian's debootstrap, or devuan's? If
> debian's, then try to have your script invoke debootstrap with:
>
> --keyring=94532124541922FB
>
> and see if that helps.
>
> Greg
>
>
> Debootstrap works for me:
>
> P: Begin bootstrapping system...
> P: If the following stage fails, the most likely cause of the problem is
> with your mirror configuration or a caching proxy.
> P: Running debootstrap (download-only)...
> P: Executing debootstrap  --arch=armhf
> --exclude=systemd-sysv,libpam-systemd --download-only jessie chroot
> http://ftp.au.mirror.devuan.org/merged/
> I: Retrieving Release
> I: Retrieving Release.gpg
> I: Checking Release signature
> I: Valid Release signature (key id
> 72E3CB773315DFA2E464743D94532124541922FB)
> I: Retrieving Packages
> I: Validating Packages
>
> Are you in Raspbian?
> Did you update the system from Debian to Devuan before using live-build?
> Being devuan-keyring installed is not enough; IMO you need to upgrade the
> base system to Devuan.
>
> HTH,
>
>   Aitor.
>
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Re: [DNG] Microsoft upgrades Windows 7 to 10 without permission

2016-03-19 Thread Steve Litt 
On Wed, 16 Mar 2016 21:30:57 +0100
Klaus Hartnegg  wrote:

> On 16.03.2016 at 17:27 David Harrison wrote:
> > On 16/03/2016 10:49, dng-requ...@lists.dyne.org wrote:  
> >> I Dropped back to 7, created a .exe that simply returns to OS, and
> >> then replaced c:\Windows\system32\GWX\GWX.exe and
> >> c\Windows\SysWOW64\GWX\GWX.exe
> >> with my NOP code.  
> >
> > Would it be possible to share that .exe off-list? It would come in
> > very handy with killing the nags on my own Win7 box.  
> 
> Use the official method documented by Microsoft.
> 
> Read https://support.microsoft.com/kb/3080351
> 
> Set these registry keys:
> 
> [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\OSUpgrade]
> "ReservationsAllowed"=dword:
> 
> [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate]
> "DisableOSUpgrade"=dword:0001
> 
> [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\Gwx]
> "DisableGwx"=dword:0001

This thread is offtopic, and is better persued on FreeNode's ##windows
channel, where everyone's friendly, informed, and informative.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
March 2016 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business
http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz
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Re: [DNG] Microsoft upgrades Windows 7 to 10 without permission

2016-03-19 Thread Nate Bargmann 
* On 2016 16 Mar 15:21 -0500, Daniel Reurich wrote:

> You can uninstall and hide (to prevent from reinstalling) a couple of
> updates to get rid of the nags permanently.

And "they" say Linux is too hard to use!  ;-)

- Nate

-- 

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possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."

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[DNG] Where to get beta?

2016-03-19 Thread Steve Litt 
Hi all,

I went to devuan.org to download the ISO for the beta, couldn't find
it, went to the Download Zone (http://files.devuan.org/) and couldn't
find anything pertaining to the Beta. I went to git.devuan.org, and
couldn't find it.

Where can I download Devuan's beta?

I have a suggestion: I know that the website is being redesigned as we
speak, but IMHO, right now, today, links should be placed at the very
top of the current https://devuan.org website showing how to join the
mailing list, how to join the IRC channel(s), and how to download the
beta and the latest alpha (4, isn't it?).

SteveT

Steve Litt 
March 2016 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business
http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz
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Re: [DNG] sup - a "small is beautiful" tool for UNIX privilege escalation

2016-03-19 Thread Rainer Weikusat 
Dave Turner  writes:
> On 17/03/16 17:32, Jim Murphy wrote:
>> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:14 AM, Jaromil  wrote:
>>> dear devuaneers, suckless hackers and friends of simplicity
>>>
>> --- clipped
>>> Basically sup is an hard-coded sudo.
>>>
>>> I adopted the software (wrote a mail to pancake, pending response) and
>>  clipped the rest
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> As an FYI:  "sup" is not a unique name.
>>
>> sup[1] Software Upgrade Protocol version 20100519-1

[...]

> Would anybody like to do a compare and contrast with 'doas' in
> OpenBSD?  OpenBSD were so vexed by sudo they ditched it and started
> from scratch.

Given enough time, Theo de Raadt and his band of very merry men will
reimplement they didn't originally write. Which makes them preciously
little different from all the other bands of "Can't understand any code
written in a style different from my own! What a fucking mess!! Let's
start from scratch and do it right this time!!!" people, the self-styled
'systemd cabal' included.

Also like all these groups, they have a large group of non-developer
fans who firmly believe that their code alone is magic(ally free of
bugs) and anybody else's efforts are futile.

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Re: [DNG] Microsoft upgrades Windows 7 to 10 without permission

2016-03-19 Thread Daniel Reurich 
On 17/03/16 05:27, David Harrison wrote:
> On 16/03/2016 10:49, dng-requ...@lists.dyne.org wrote:
>> I Dropped back to 7, created a .exe that simply returns to OS, and then
>> replaced c:\Windows\system32\GWX\GWX.exe and
>> c\Windows\SysWOW64\GWX\GWX.exe
>> with my NOP code.
> 
> Would it be possible to share that .exe off-list? It would come in very
> handy with killing the nags on my own Win7 box.

You can uninstall and hide (to prevent from reinstalling) a couple of
updates to get rid of the nags permanently.


-- 
Daniel Reurich
Centurion Computer Technology (2005) Ltd.
021 797 722



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Re: [DNG] Where to get beta?

2016-03-19 Thread Hendrik Boom 
On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 03:56:24PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Where can I download Devuan's beta?

As far as I know, there isn't a beta yet.  I would be happy to be 
wrong.

I installed devuan jessie from the second alpha a long time ago, , 
upgraded it regularly, and been happy with it. 

At the moment, I expect you would have to find the fourth alpha 
release.

Some people have upgraded to devuan jessie from a Debian wheezy.
That seems to work.  But I'd make sure to have a full backup first in 
case something goes wrong and you want to undo the upgrade.

-- hendrik
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Re: [DNG] Topics

2016-03-19 Thread Didier Kryn 

Le 17/03/2016 16:26, David Harrison a écrit :
I apologize profusely for the one-post aside and for the hours of your 
life it must have wasted. 


I apologize for the tone of my mail :-)

Didier

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Re: [DNG] Microsoft upgrades Windows 7 to 10 without permission

2016-03-19 Thread Steven W. Scott 
Hey David,

 You can find the source and executable here -->
https://github.com/nekarkedoc/GWX/

I had debated on putting it up there in the first place, since I could find
no suitable existing project.

Thanks Klaus for those keys, I may find use for them. The fact that a
common user would have to go to that effort to avoid the Win10 #fail is
more than disappointing. We're all here because we like freedom to chose,
and that isn't choice or user friendly.

Lighten up there, Steve-O. You're gonna curl your tie.

SWS

On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 5:34 PM, Hendrik Boom 
wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 05:31:37PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> > On Wed, 16 Mar 2016 16:27:14 +
> > David Harrison  wrote:
> >
> > > On 16/03/2016 10:49, dng-requ...@lists.dyne.org wrote:
> > > > I Dropped back to 7, created a .exe that simply returns to OS, and
> > > > then replaced c:\Windows\system32\GWX\GWX.exe and
> > > > c\Windows\SysWOW64\GWX\GWX.exe with my NOP code.
> > >
> > > Would it be possible to share that .exe off-list? It would come in
> > > very handy with killing the nags on my own Win7 box.
> >
> > WARNING: Regardless of David's intent, which I assume is benign, the
> > preceding paragraph is solicitation to commit felony copyright
> > infringement. Nobody should email proprietary software to others,
> > without a written OK from the copyright holder. This kind of request
> > should never be made on any kind of mailing list.
>
> Someone identiies as dng-requ...@lists.dyne.org created a .exe that
> simply returns to the OS.
> Presumably he is the author and the copyright holder.
> Or have I misunderstood something?
>
> -- hendrik
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Re: [DNG] sup - a "small is beautiful" tool for UNIX privilege escalation

2016-03-19 Thread Jaromil 
On Thu, 17 Mar 2016, Rainer Weikusat wrote:
> 
> Random suggestion: What about supporting a compiled-in path?

this is a pretty good idea, thanks!

won't be implemented right away as i don't need it immediately myself,
time is so little... but a well written patch would be welcome on this

ciao


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Re: [DNG] Where to get beta?

2016-03-19 Thread Mitt Green 
Steve Litt wrote:

> Where can I download Devuan's beta?

In the future (sorry, couldn't resist).

> I have a suggestion: I know that the website
> is being redesigned as we speak, but IMHO,
> right now, today, links should be placed at the very
> top of the current https://devuan.org website
> showing how to join the mailing list, how to join
> the IRC channel(s), and how to download the
> beta and the latest alpha (4, isn't it?).

+1

// Mitt
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