Re: [DNG] SoylentNews discussion

[KatolaZ]

On Thu, Jun 02, 2016 at 05:57:27PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:

[cut]

> > 
> > however this is all abstract speculation now. I'm not even sure we'll
> > make such a big change in testing. most people and organizations
> > switching to Devuan today (me included) are in need of a system that
> > does not change their workflow arbitrarily.
> 
> Yes. I would recommend against *any* init change in the foreseeable
> future. All I'm saying is that *if and when* we change, the change
> should be to something very different from sysvinit. Something like
> Epoch, Runit, or s6.
> 

IMHO, if and when we would like to make a change regarding init
systems, that change should not be to replace sysvinit with an init
system of *our* choice, but probably towards allowing users to use the
non-invasive init of *their* choice.

My2Cents

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] SoylentNews discussion

[Simon Walter]

On 06/03/2016 06:45 AM, Jaromil wrote:
> however this is all abstract speculation now. I'm not even sure we'll
> make such a big change in testing. most people and organizations
> switching to Devuan today (me included) are in need of a system that
> does not change their workflow arbitrarily.

On 06/03/2016 06:57 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
> But like you say, this decision is a long, looong way off.

Very sensible. Thank you! People "at the coalface" appreciate this.
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Re: [DNG] Devuan Top100 on DistroWatch

[Simon Walter]

On 06/03/2016 01:55 AM, KatolaZ wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 02, 2016 at 06:27:43PM +0200, Jaromil wrote:
>> On Thu, 02 Jun 2016, Joel Roth wrote:
>>
>>> Actually, the news doesn't even have to be good. There's nothing
>>> like an engineered controversy full of flames, to gain interest of
>>> the press.
>>
>> sad, but true in most cases.
>>
>> anyway the main cornerstone for Devuan beta2 will *not* be a media
>> stunt :^) we have to make some fixes, consolidate the infrastructure
>> and last but not least include properly the fine look of the default
>> desktop that golinux and hellekin have made.
>>
> 
> Flames fade away, and leave little good behind, if anything. It would
> be far better for Devuan to focus on facts, rather than on opinions.
> 

Yes, I totally agree. "There is nothing hidden that will not be
revealed." Which is why open source trumps closed source. Which is why
many people see through Redhat and their greedy moves.

Here is another little "fact" I came across:
https://wiki.debian.org/LXC#Incompatibility_with_systemd

Simon
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Re: [DNG] Devuan Top100 on DistroWatch

[Jim Murphy]

On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 6:51 AM, hellekin  wrote:
> Today Devuan is number #91 on DistroWatch.com!  We made it to the Top
> 100 is the first 3 days of presence on DW.  Sweet!
>
> http://distrowatch.com/devuan

I guess Jesse Smith over at DistorWatch was serious.  On the 4th of
May I noticed that Devuan's wait page and link to Devuan's homepage
were gone.  A couple of days later when it hadn't shown up I sent an email
to Admin and Jesse responded with:

>My mistake. I had moved Devuan into a special status where it's sort of
>halfway between the waiting list and our database and that made it
>disappear from our waiting list. I've re-added the link so people can
>still find the project until we get the project full coverage.

He later asked when Devuan stable would be released.  I said I
personally felt there would most likely be another beta but some
found is solid enough to already use on production systems.

Happily surprised to see the real Devuan page on DistroWatch.
Considering how long some distros have been waiting for a real
page, Devuan did well.

Congrats to all who made it happen.  Still have a way to go, but
I feel good about it.

Jim
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[DNG] ifconfig vs ip

[Simon Walter]

Hi All,

I am working on some cdist scripts for setting up some network interfaces.

So far I am modifying the /etc/network/interfaces and then bring down
and up the interfaces. For a while now /etc/init.d/networking has a
warning that it is deprecated. I understand why. So I issue:
# ip address flush dev xxx && ip link set xxx down

Which seems to work fine. However, when I try to bring the device back
up with the new config with "ifup xxx"
It fails. If I first issue a "ifdown xxx" then it works.

So I have couple questions for those who know about the situation in De*an:

1. Is there a plan to move away from ipconfig?
2. Is there a plan to write a /etc/init.d/networking script that works
properly?
3. Is ifup unrelated to ifconfig and will continue to live and be used
in the De*an ecosystem?
3. For my project: How does one bring up and down interfaces with ip in
coordination with /etc/network/interfaces? Or shall I use ifup?

Kind regards,

Simon
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Re: [DNG] SoylentNews discussion

[Steve Litt]

On Thu, 2 Jun 2016 23:45:33 +0200
Jaromil  wrote:

> dear Steve,
> 
> On Thu, 02 Jun 2016, Steve Litt wrote:
> 
> > My opinion is quite the opposite. OpenRC is, in my opinion, pretty
> > similar to sysvinit. Both use "init scripts" that can grow huge and
> > unfathomable.  
> 
> OK, you make some quite reasonable points and I'm half convinced now,
> by the rationale of changing things for better if we really change
> them. I'm curious to hear Roger Leigh's opinion on this and also that
> of other Devuan developers.
> 
> however this is all abstract speculation now. I'm not even sure we'll
> make such a big change in testing. most people and organizations
> switching to Devuan today (me included) are in need of a system that
> does not change their workflow arbitrarily.

Yes. I would recommend against *any* init change in the foreseeable
future. All I'm saying is that *if and when* we change, the change
should be to something very different from sysvinit. Something like
Epoch, Runit, or s6.

Interesting, Epoch, Runit and s6 can all be fairly easily installed by
a knowledgeable Linux user, direct from "upstream" code, with no
intervention from the package manager.

Epoch, Runit and s6 have one thing in common: Each was written and
maintained by one person, so they could not afford the complexification
that bigger projects often burden their software with. This is why
they're so easily installable by a mere mortal.

But like you say, this decision is a long, looong way off.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
May 2016 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
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Re: [DNG] SoylentNews discussion

[Jaromil]

dear Steve,

On Thu, 02 Jun 2016, Steve Litt wrote:

> My opinion is quite the opposite. OpenRC is, in my opinion, pretty
> similar to sysvinit. Both use "init scripts" that can grow huge and
> unfathomable.

OK, you make some quite reasonable points and I'm half convinced now,
by the rationale of changing things for better if we really change
them. I'm curious to hear Roger Leigh's opinion on this and also that
of other Devuan developers.

however this is all abstract speculation now. I'm not even sure we'll
make such a big change in testing. most people and organizations
switching to Devuan today (me included) are in need of a system that
does not change their workflow arbitrarily.

ciao
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Re: [DNG] lilo

[Rainer Weikusat]

Rainer Weikusat  writes:

[...]

> I'll certainly fix any CVE-level issue I consider to be relevant for my
> use cases

While we're at that: There's a bunch of (very likely harmless) buffer
overflows in the bsect_common function (bsect.c), namely this here:

if ((root = cfg_get_strg(cf_kernel,"root")) || (root = cfg_get_strg(
  cf_options,"root")))  {
if (!strcasecmp(root,"current")) {
if (stat("/",) < 0) pdie("stat /");
sprintf(strchr(options,0),"root=%x ",(unsigned int) st.st_dev);
}
else if (strlen(root)>6 && !strncmp(root,"LABEL=",6)) {
sprintf(strchr(options,0),"root=%s ", root);
}
else if (strlen(root)>5 && !strncmp(root,"UUID=",5)) {
sprintf(strchr(options,0),"root=%s ", root);
}
else {
sprintf(strchr(options,0),"root=%x ",dev_number(root));
}
  } 

options is a 512 byte buffer. As there's no length check and no implicit
restriction for root device specifications starting with LABEL= or
UUID=, the config file can contain a value long enough to overwrite
whatever happens to be behind the options buffer.

Likewise,

append_local = cfg_get_strg(cf_options,"append");   /* global, actually */
if ((append = cfg_get_strg(cf_kernel,"append")) ||
(append = append_local)  ) {
if (strlen(append) > COMMAND_LINE_SIZE-1) die("Command line 
options > %d", COMMAND_LINE_SIZE-1);
strcat(strcat(options,append)," ");
}

this check is wrong: COMMAND_LINE_SIZE is 512, IOW, the total buffer
size. Hence, an append string can be used to write beyond the options
buffer, too.

NB: The worst possible effect of this is causing the lilo program to behave
bizarrely and/or crash when processing root= or append= input that's too
large for the buffer.
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Re: [DNG] Devuan Top100 on DistroWatch

[Steve Litt]

On Thu, 2 Jun 2016 20:29:08 +0800
Robert Storey  wrote:

> There are even a lot of people
> (including me) who are taking a second look at FreeBSD as a Plan B.

When searching for plans B, C, D and E back in late 2014 and early
2015, I rejected FreeBSD because of their everchanging and ever buggy
package manager of the month, and instead opted for PC-BSD, which in my
opinion has a much more useful package manager that is compatible with
ports. PC-BSD is one of the alternatives I've found to be capable of
doing all necessary work for Troubleshooters.Com.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
May 2016 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
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Re: [DNG] SoylentNews discussion

[Steve Litt]

On Thu, 2 Jun 2016 12:53:55 +0200
Jaromil  wrote:


> however I'd really recommend to sit down a bit and watch OpenRC as it
> seems to me the best candidate to follow up sysvinit. 

My opinion is quite the opposite. OpenRC is, in my opinion, pretty
similar to sysvinit. Both use "init scripts" that can grow huge and
unfathomable. I've heard that OpenRC has some kind of parallel-foo, but
for most use cases you don't care whether you boot in 2 seconds or 30
second. If OpenRC can respawn at all (without addition of
daemontools-encore or equivalent), the way to do that is severely
underdocumented.

If I were going to switch away from sysvinit, I'd do it only if the new
system were a huge improvement. I see sysvinit and OpenRC as very
similar: No need to switch from one to the other.

> One thing I
> cannot find mentioned in the soy thread is that the init system should
> be 100% compatible with existing sysvinit scripts and OpenRC seems to
> achieve that with well written and well documented code,

I think that any new init system should be 100% INcompatible with
existing sysvinit scripts. Existing sysvinit scripts are the spawn of
the devil, and provided lots of cover for the systemd fans to say
"systemd is better than sysvinit."

My opinion: If the init specification of a daemon exceeds 25 lines,
that's a problem. Many sysvinit and OpenRC daemon init specifications
are over 100 lines, especially if you take into account all the stuff
imported from the "functions" file. I never want one of those long
files darkening my door again. That's why I switched to Runit, where
most of my run scripts are less than 10 lines long, and understandable
by anyone.

Anything resembling sysvinit init scripts must die.

Another opinion: The original Epoch init system that Subsentient
criticized and now wants to make parallel is arguably the best init
system, and I wish I'd given him that feedback. First, process startup
was sequential, and in most use cases that turns out to be the best.
Screw parallelism. You *know* sequential is going to work.

Second, Epoch's process config sections are tiny: Almost always less
than 10 lines.

Third, other than the new s6-rc and systemd, Epoch was the *only* init
system that could easily and natively intermix long-run and run-once
processes.

Fourth, now that systemd exists, we can exploit systemd to
programmatically create Epoch config sections. systemd unit files
contain info which is close to a 1 to 1 correspondence with what's in
Epoch configuration units. Systemd's after this and before that and
depends on this and provides that can all be programmatically be
converted into a boot order. The resulting confs could be given to the
upstreams, or a Devuan Epoch maintainer could just test them all. And
of course in 2016 there's no shortage of systemd unit files.

Fifth, for the person manually installing an init system, Epoch is the
quickest init system to install. It's a couple hours, as opposed to
several hours for runit.

Now I REALLY wish I'd told Subsentient how much I appreciated his
sequential start Epoch. It was one in a million.
 
SteveT

Steve Litt 
May 2016 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
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Re: [DNG] Devuan (f)art

[KatolaZ]

On Thu, Jun 02, 2016 at 01:15:46PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> It's line-wrapping here, making it unrecognizeable as a design. Any
> chance of attaching it?
> 

Don't know if the attachment will make it through the ML, but we can
try. Maybe this was the reason why a few people couldn't see it
properly.

HND

KatolaZ

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'~._
   
""+=+_ ) (@  @) @@   @@   @@.@@@.   
 
  '"@+.@'''   @@@@  @@   @@  @++@  @?'''\@  

 @@+.  @@  @@   @@   @@ @@  @@ @@   @@  
   
  )@)   @@@@@@   @@@@@@@@   @@  

+@@)'@@  @@ @@   @@   @@  @@   @@   @@
 (@@@) @...   @++@  '+. .+'  @@@@  @@   @@  

  (@@@))   @@ "@"   (@  @) @@   @@
   ))   
  
(@)(R)  
  
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Re: [DNG] Devuan (f)art

[Steve Litt]

It's line-wrapping here, making it unrecognizeable as a design. Any
chance of attaching it?

Thanks

SteveT

On Thu, 2 Jun 2016 08:58:40 +0100
KatolaZ  wrote:

> Dear Devuaners,
> 
> I wanted to share a first attempt to get an ASCII-art-like logo for
> Devuan that I made yesterday night. I am not an expert of ASCII-art,
> so don't expect it to be perfect or to look good. I started from the
> official svg I found on the website, and I wanted something that could
> be put in /etc/issue (10 rows x 80 cols max), so the proportions might
> be not *exactly* the same a those of the original one, but I am sure
> that the ascii-wizards in this ML can use it as a preliminary draft to
> work on.
> 
> HH
> 
> KatolaZ
> 
> 
> 
> '~._
> ""+=+_ ) (@  @) @@   @@
> @@.@@@. '"@+.@'''   @@@@  @@   @@
> @++@  @?'''\@ @@+.  @@  @@   @@   @@ @@
> @@ @@   @@ )@)   @@@@@@   @@@@
> @@@@   @@ +@@)'@@  @@ @@   @@   @@
> @@   @@   @@ (@@@) @...   @++@  '+. .+'
> @@@@  @@   @@ (@@@))   @@
> "@"   (@  @) @@   @@
> ))
> (@)
> (R)  
> 



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Re: [DNG] Devuan Top100 on DistroWatch

[KatolaZ]

On Thu, Jun 02, 2016 at 06:27:43PM +0200, Jaromil wrote:
> On Thu, 02 Jun 2016, Joel Roth wrote:
> 
> > Actually, the news doesn't even have to be good. There's nothing
> > like an engineered controversy full of flames, to gain interest of
> > the press.
> 
> sad, but true in most cases.
> 
> anyway the main cornerstone for Devuan beta2 will *not* be a media
> stunt :^) we have to make some fixes, consolidate the infrastructure
> and last but not least include properly the fine look of the default
> desktop that golinux and hellekin have made.
> 

Flames fade away, and leave little good behind, if anything. It would
be far better for Devuan to focus on facts, rather than on opinions.

My2Cents

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Devuan Top100 on DistroWatch

[Jaromil]

On Thu, 02 Jun 2016, Joel Roth wrote:

> Actually, the news doesn't even have to be good. There's nothing
> like an engineered controversy full of flames, to gain interest of
> the press.

sad, but true in most cases.

anyway the main cornerstone for Devuan beta2 will *not* be a media
stunt :^) we have to make some fixes, consolidate the infrastructure
and last but not least include properly the fine look of the default
desktop that golinux and hellekin have made.

I don't even think we *need* more visibility. We can definitely work
with what we have and continue to improve the quality of our
environment to properly merit all this attention.

ciao
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Re: [DNG] Devuan Top100 on DistroWatch

[Joel Roth]

Robert Storey wrote:
> > Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2016 11:51:38 +
> > From: hellekin 
> > To: dng@lists.dyne.org
> > Subject: [DNG] Devuan Top100 on DistroWatch
> > Message-ID: <57501dca.6090...@dyne.org>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> >
> > Today Devuan is number #91 on DistroWatch.com!  We made it to the Top
> > 100 is the first 3 days of presence on DW.  Sweet!
> >
> > http://distrowatch.com/devuan
> 
> It's a good start and I think there are a lot of people out there who are
> interested in Devuan, or anything else that could help them escape the
> ravages of systemd. There are even a lot of people (including me) who are
> taking a second look at FreeBSD as a Plan B. But anyway, for Devuan to
> attract more hits on DistroWatch (not to mention more people willing to
> install), there has to be some news about it, so I hope that a beta-2 will
> be coming along in the not too distant future.

Actually, the news doesn't even have to be good. There's nothing
like an engineered controversy full of flames, to gain
interest of the press.
 
A dust-up between key developers, arguments over leadership
or direction of development, really anything of that ilk
will go a long way.

If you think you might be skilled at that sort of
engineering, please message the moderators :)

-- 
Joel Roth
  

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Re: [DNG] Devuan (f)art

[Go Linux]

On Thu, 6/2/16, KatolaZ  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [DNG] Devuan (f)art
 To: "Go Linux" 
 Cc: "hellekin" , "KatolaZ" , 
dng@lists.dyne.org
 Date: Thursday, June 2, 2016, 9:49 AM
 
 On Thu, Jun 02, 2016 at 02:39:44PM +, Go Linux wrote:

[cut]

>
> 
>
> Yes, that is an improvement but the proportions are still off.  Both swooshes 
> are too elongated and hellekin's version looks 'pregnant with that bump on 
> the RH side.  I stared at KatolaZ's version of the logo for some time but 
> could never see Devuan in it.  Sorry.
>

Sorry for the silly question, but you are using fixed-size fonts,

right?

HND

KatolaZ



Ah, no I'm not.  That's how much I know about ascii art.  

golinux
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Re: [DNG] Devuan (f)art

[KatolaZ]

On Thu, Jun 02, 2016 at 02:39:44PM +, Go Linux wrote:

[cut]

> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that is an improvement but the proportions are still off.  Both swooshes 
> are too elongated and hellekin's version looks 'pregnant with that bump on 
> the RH side.  I stared at KatolaZ's version of the logo for some time but 
> could never see Devuan in it.  Sorry.
> 

Sorry for the silly question, but you are using fixed-size fonts,
right?

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Devuan (f)art

[KatolaZ]

On Thu, Jun 02, 2016 at 03:30:23PM +0100, Rainer Weikusat wrote:
> KatolaZ  writes:
> > Dear Devuaners,
> >
> > I wanted to share a first attempt to get an ASCII-art-like logo for
> > Devuan that I made yesterday night.
> 
> [...]
> 
> > '~._
> > ""+=+_ ) (@  @) @@   @@   @@
> > .@@@.
> >   '"@+.@'''   @@@@  @@   @@  @++@  
> > @?'''\@  
> >  @@+.  @@  @@   @@   @@ @@  @@ @@   
> > @@ 
> >   )@)   @@@@@@   @@@@@@@@   
> > @@  
> > +@@)'@@  @@ @@   @@   @@  @@   @@   
> > @@
> >  (@@@) @...   @++@  '+. .+'  @@@@  @@   
> > @@  
> >   (@@@))   @@ "@"   (@  @) @@   
> > @@ 
> >))   
> > 
> > (@)
> > (R)  
> 
> Eh ... are you aware of the meaning of the English word in your subject?
^^

Mmmmhhh, I am not absolutely sure, but if you mean something like
this...


  From WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006) [wn]:

  fart
  n 1: a reflex that expels intestinal gas through the anus [syn:
   fart, farting, flatus, wind, breaking wind]
  v 1: expel intestinal gases through the anus [syn: fart,
   break wind]


...then I really can't see how one could honestly use a more
appropriate word for such a poor attempt at ASCII-arting ;)

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Devuan (f)art

[Go Linux]

On Thu, 6/2/16, KatolaZ  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [DNG] Devuan (f)art
 To: "hellekin" 
 Cc: dng@lists.dyne.org
 Date: Thursday, June 2, 2016, 7:49 AM
 
 On Thu, Jun 02, 2016 at
 11:49:55AM +, hellekin wrote:
 
 [cut]
 
On Thu, Jun 02, 2016 at 11:49:55AM +, hellekin wrote:

[cut]

>
> I tried this before, indeed the result needs tweaking.  The screenfetch
> entry for Devuan looks pretty good already:
>
> hellekin@raiz
>  ..,,;;;::;,..   OS: Devuan 1.0 jessie
>  `':ddd;:,.  Kernel: x86_64 Linux 4.5.0-2-amd64
>`'dPPd:,. Uptime: 1d 1h 25m
>`:b$$b`.  Packages: 3519
>   'P$$$d`Shell: zsh 5.0.7
>.$`   Resolution: 1366x768
>;$P   WM: Xfwm4
> .:P$$`   WM Theme: Clearlooks-Phenix-purpy
> .,:b$$$;'CPU: Intel Core i5-3320M CPU @ 4x...
>.,:dPb:'  GPU: Mesa DRI Intel(R) Ivybridge...
> .,:;db$$Pd'` RAM: 1471MiB / 4611MiB
>,db$$b:'`
>   :b:'`
>`$bd:''`
>  `'''`
>

That's awesome :) (sorry for the small editing on the right-hand side...)

HND

KatolaZ



Yes, that is an improvement but the proportions are still off.  Both swooshes 
are too elongated and hellekin's version looks 'pregnant with that bump on the 
RH side.  I stared at KatolaZ's version of the logo for some time but could 
never see Devuan in it.  Sorry.

golinux

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Re: [DNG] Is kernel 4.5.0 flakey ?

[Rainer Weikusat]

Haines Brown  writes:
> I installed 64bit jessie on a new HDD, and initially used the 3.16.0
> kernel. Then I installed the 4.50 kernel and ran into trouble.
>
>   kernel:[25090.816205] NMI watchdog: BUG: soft lockup - CPU #7
>   stuck for 22!s
> [colord-sane:20969]
>
> This message is displayed every few seconds in whatever happens to have
> the focus and is accompanied with a beep. The keyboard and mouse
> hang so that I must do a hot reboot.
>
> Is this in fact a kernel bug?

The message comes from the NMI watchdog in the kernel and indicates a
possibly bug in some application. The comment above the statement
printing this message may be helpful here:

/* check for a softlockup
 * This is done by making sure a high priority task is
 * being scheduled.  The task touches the watchdog to
 * indicate it is getting cpu time.  If it hasn't then
 * this is a good indication some task is hogging the cpu
 */

If this feature is enabled, there's a dedicated kernel thread running on
each CPU (named watchdog/) which will reset the watchdog timeout
whenever it gets CPU time to do so. The message is printed of this
thread didn't have a chance to run during the checking interval because
another task ate all available CPU time. The stack backtrace & other
information printed together with this message should provide more
information about this other task.

NB: I've been running 4.5.0 ever since it was released (the upstream
kernel).

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Re: [DNG] Devuan (f)art

[KatolaZ]

On Thu, Jun 02, 2016 at 11:49:55AM +, hellekin wrote:

[cut]

> 
> I tried this before, indeed the result needs tweaking.  The screenfetch
> entry for Devuan looks pretty good already:
> 
> hellekin@raiz
>  ..,,;;;::;,..   OS: Devuan 1.0 jessie
>  `':ddd;:,.  Kernel: x86_64 Linux 4.5.0-2-amd64
>`'dPPd:,. Uptime: 1d 1h 25m
>`:b$$b`.  Packages: 3519
>   'P$$$d`Shell: zsh 5.0.7
>.$`   Resolution: 1366x768
>;$P   WM: Xfwm4
> .:P$$`   WM Theme: Clearlooks-Phenix-purpy
> .,:b$$$;'CPU: Intel Core i5-3320M CPU @ 4x...
>.,:dPb:'  GPU: Mesa DRI Intel(R) Ivybridge...
> .,:;db$$Pd'` RAM: 1471MiB / 4611MiB
>,db$$b:'`
>   :b:'`
>`$bd:''`
>  `'''`
> 

That's awesome :) (sorry for the small editing on the right-hand side...)

HND

KatolaZ


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Re: [DNG] Devuan Top100 on DistroWatch

[Robert Storey]

> Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2016 11:51:38 +
> From: hellekin 
> To: dng@lists.dyne.org
> Subject: [DNG] Devuan Top100 on DistroWatch
> Message-ID: <57501dca.6090...@dyne.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Today Devuan is number #91 on DistroWatch.com!  We made it to the Top
> 100 is the first 3 days of presence on DW.  Sweet!
>
> http://distrowatch.com/devuan

It's a good start and I think there are a lot of people out there who are
interested in Devuan, or anything else that could help them escape the
ravages of systemd. There are even a lot of people (including me) who are
taking a second look at FreeBSD as a Plan B. But anyway, for Devuan to
attract more hits on DistroWatch (not to mention more people willing to
install), there has to be some news about it, so I hope that a beta-2 will
be coming along in the not too distant future.

And yes, I know that represents a lot of work for the developers, but I
assure you that it's much appreciated.

I noticed just recently that my dependable antiX installation got
semi-broken after a dist-upgrade, on two machines. Seems that a lot of
stuff is not in their default repositories. I hope it's just a fluke, but
anyway, I'm getting ready to make a massive move to either Devuan and/or
FreeBSD (waiting for release 11, due out at the end of summer).

cheers,
Robert
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Re: [DNG] Converting audio to AAC using Soundconverter

[Robert Storey]

> From: Adam Borowski 
> To: dng@lists.dyne.org
> Subject: Re: [DNG] Converting audio to AAC using Soundconverter
>
> Re: [DNG] Converting audio to AAC using Soundconverter
> If your target machine is anything non-ancient, you want opus, it
thoroughly
> beats both mp3 and aac at any bitrate.  Even I, with untrained ears and
> shitty gear, can ABX 320kbit mp3 on some samples.  Never tried with aac
but
>it's said to be similar.  On the other hand, pretty few people can ABX opus
> at just 96k, so encoding at 128k is fine if you're paranoid about quality.
> Yes, it is that much better.

Hi Adam, thanks for bringing Opus to my (our) attention. I looked it up and
it does sound enticing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opus_(audio_format)

However, looking at https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ there doesn't seem to be
anything about converting files to Opus. I do realize that converting an
MPS to Opus isn't going to improve its sound quality, it's new encodings
that should make the difference. However, I can see some benefit in knowing
how to do the conversion so that all the sound files can be in the same
format. Just wondering if you have any useful links?

cheers,
Robert
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[DNG] Devuan Top100 on DistroWatch

[hellekin]

Today Devuan is number #91 on DistroWatch.com!  We made it to the Top
100 is the first 3 days of presence on DW.  Sweet!

http://distrowatch.com/devuan

==
hk

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Re: [DNG] Devuan (f)art

[hellekin]

On 06/02/2016 08:10 AM, KatolaZ wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 02, 2016 at 08:58:40AM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
>> Dear Devuaners,
>>
>> I wanted to share a first attempt to get an ASCII-art-like logo for
>> Devuan that I made yesterday night. I am not an expert of ASCII-art,
>> so don't expect it to be perfect or to look good. I started from the
>> official svg I found on the website, and I wanted something that could
>> be put in /etc/issue (10 rows x 80 cols max), so the proportions might
> ^^
> 
> I obviously meant "/etc/motd" here. Sorry.
> 

I tried this before, indeed the result needs tweaking.  The screenfetch
entry for Devuan looks pretty good already:

hellekin@raiz
 ..,,;;;::;,..   OS: Devuan 1.0 jessie
 `':ddd;:,.  Kernel: x86_64 Linux 4.5.0-2-amd64
   `'dPPd:,. Uptime: 1d 1h 25m
   `:b$$b`.  Packages: 3519
  'P$$$d`Shell: zsh 5.0.7
   .$`   Resolution: 1366x768
   ;$P   WM: Xfwm4
.:P$$`   WM Theme: Clearlooks-Phenix-purpy
.,:b$$$;'CPU: Intel Core i5-3320M CPU @ 4x
2.64GHz
   .,:dPb:'  GPU: Mesa DRI Intel(R) Ivybridge
Mobile
.,:;db$$Pd'` RAM: 1471MiB / 4611MiB
   ,db$$b:'`
  :b:'`
   `$bd:''`
 `'''`

==
hk

-- 
 _ _ We are free to share code and we code to share freedom
(_X_)yne Foundation, Free Culture Foundry * https://www.dyne.org/donate/
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Re: [DNG] SoylentNews discussion

[Jaromil]

On Thu, 02 Jun 2016, Godefridus Daalmans wrote:

> I just noticed that SubSentient has started a discussion on
> SoylentNews about init systems:
>
> https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=16/06/01/0347232
> 
> Ask SN: Help Write it — What do you Want in an Init System?

to me this looks a very honest approach to the community at large.  a
lesson to learn for the "young innovators", it deserves a plause
at least for its methodology, the frank tones in admitting
shortcomings of his own implementation and reaching out for
suggestions.

however I'd really recommend to sit down a bit and watch OpenRC as it
seems to me the best candidate to follow up sysvinit. One thing I
cannot find mentioned in the soy thread is that the init system should
be 100% compatible with existing sysvinit scripts and OpenRC seems to
achieve that with well written and well documented code, but I'm still
not done reading it all.

ciao

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Re: [DNG] lilo

[Rainer Weikusat]

Jaromil  writes:
> On Mon, 30 May 2016, Rainer Weikusat wrote:
>
>> I have no plans to use anything but lilo unless that's a technical
>> requirement. It boots. That's all I want from it.
>
> having dealt with it recently, what is your opinion on the current
> state of Lilo code?

"It's code"? What I've done with this so far is add a facility for
include files and directories so that I can support mixed manual/
automatic management of lilo configuration more easily, short-circuited
all of the 'working code' dependent on a global variable set via
command-line option to enable using the parser for automated syntax
checking and added a (yet untested) configuration option for
incrementally building kernel command lines as I need some appends which
are always there (panic=30), either VT or serial console or both,
depending on the machine in question, and possibly other things in
future. This means I haven't seen much of the code beyond the main
function (in lilo.c) and the config parser.

The main function is longer than what I'd ever write myself but
reasonbly straight-forward/ easy-to-understand, ie, nothing like, say,
the fetchmail code (I've also worked with that in the past). The config
parser is based on building tokens based on single-character reads and
putting these into 'tables' (linearly searched arrays of name/ value
pairs). It's composed of small, sensibly-named function and easily
understood. It's structurally limited to processing lilo.conf files, ie,
there's no way to associated arbitary processing actions with tokens
beyond triggering main program state transitions, eg, switching to
'image parsing mode' from 'global options parsing mode'. I've added the
'build command line incrementally' feature as special case to the 2nd
level 'handle name/ value pairs' function in a slightly general way by
using mock pointers (with 0x in the highest sixteen bit and a
separator char in the lowest byte) in order to detect an option supposed
to build a string piece-by-piece. There's a somewhat odd 'addappend'
image option which can be used to add exactly one string to the existing
append string. That's supposed to be used to add per-image parameters to
the global parameter list. I strongly suspect the most recent maintainer
implemented this because it was the path of least resistance wrt
enabling some level incremental command-line construction.

> is there any possibility that you take up its maintanance, without
> adding new features and likely without having anything to do really?
> its still good to have someone who knows the code of the package as a
> reference for questions, CVEs and such.

I'm willing to help with any such effort, eg, I can answer questions and
implement minor (< 100 lines of new code) changes because other people
need them, but I can't commit any time to this beyond occasional 'under
the radar' activities unless I need a certain change badly enough that I
can argue it through with the suit people. And then, I have to take
the most quick-and-dirty approach towards implementation I consider to
be well-done enough that I can continue working with the code without
accepting an undue, longer-term maintenance burden.

I'll certainly fix any CVE-level issue I consider to be relevant for my
use cases and I'll gladly share such changes if they seem generally
usable (subject to me being allowed to do so, of course).
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[DNG] SoylentNews discussion

[Godefridus Daalmans]

Hi,

I just noticed that SubSentient has started a discussion on SoylentNews 
about init systems:


https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=16/06/01/0347232

Ask SN: Help Write it — What do you Want in an Init System?

I thought you might find it interesting.

Greetings,
Frits
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Re: [DNG] Devuan (f)art

[KatolaZ]

On Thu, Jun 02, 2016 at 08:58:40AM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
> Dear Devuaners,
> 
> I wanted to share a first attempt to get an ASCII-art-like logo for
> Devuan that I made yesterday night. I am not an expert of ASCII-art,
> so don't expect it to be perfect or to look good. I started from the
> official svg I found on the website, and I wanted something that could
> be put in /etc/issue (10 rows x 80 cols max), so the proportions might
^^

I obviously meant "/etc/motd" here. Sorry.

HND

KatolaZ

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[ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
[ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
[ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ]
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[DNG] Devuan (f)art

[KatolaZ]

Dear Devuaners,

I wanted to share a first attempt to get an ASCII-art-like logo for
Devuan that I made yesterday night. I am not an expert of ASCII-art,
so don't expect it to be perfect or to look good. I started from the
official svg I found on the website, and I wanted something that could
be put in /etc/issue (10 rows x 80 cols max), so the proportions might
be not *exactly* the same a those of the original one, but I am sure
that the ascii-wizards in this ML can use it as a preliminary draft to
work on.

HH

KatolaZ



'~._
""+=+_ ) (@  @) @@   @@   @@.@@@.
  '"@+.@'''   @@@@  @@   @@  @++@  @?'''\@  

 @@+.  @@  @@   @@   @@ @@  @@ @@   @@  
   
  )@)   @@@@@@   @@@@@@@@   @@  

+@@)'@@  @@ @@   @@   @@  @@   @@   @@
 (@@@) @...   @++@  '+. .+'  @@@@  @@   @@  

  (@@@))   @@ "@"   (@  @) @@   @@ 
   ))   

(@)(R)  


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Re: [DNG] Converting audio to AAC using Soundconverter

[fuumind]

Thanks! It seems I will have to look at going down that route after all.

/fuumind

ons 2016-06-01 klockan 19:39 -1000 skrev Joel Roth:
> fuumind wrote:
> > I wish to convert several thousands of audio files mostly in mp3 format
> > to AAC using the Soundconverter application. So far I have installed the
> > application and the packages gstreamer$VERSION-plugins-$CODECCOLLECTION
> > where VERSION=('0.10' '1.0') and CODECCOLLECTION=('base' 'good' 'bad'
> > 'ugly') - doing the usual guesswork and then trying to find info
> > online :) - but AAC does not present itself as an available target
> > encoding.
> > 
> > What package do I need to install in order to make AAC available? Should
> > I perhaps be using some other software instead of Soundconverter?
> 
> Hi, not what you asked for, but ffmpeg can do this
> conversion on the command line. Plenty of examples
> provided. 
> 
> https://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/Encode/AAC
> 
> HTH,
> 
>  
> > Thanks!
> > /fuumind
> > 
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> 


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Re: [DNG] Converting audio to AAC using Soundconverter

[fuumind]

Thanks for the input! My target machine is an anchient feature phone
that supports mp3 and AAC only. Its limited storage space combined with
a speaker that does not make high bitrates justice tells me that AAC is
the best choise of codec in this case.

/fuumind

tor 2016-06-02 klockan 08:19 +0200 skrev Adam Borowski:
> On Thu, Jun 02, 2016 at 07:22:38AM +0200, fuumind wrote:
> > I wish to convert several thousands of audio files mostly in mp3 format
> > to AAC
> 
> I don't get why one would want to convert _to_ AAC.  It's a format both bad
> and proprietary, thus hardly supported by free software at all.  It wins
> with mp3 only at very low bitrates and is actually _worse_ (although usually
> within the error margin) than mp3 on high bitrates.
> 
> If your target machine is anything non-ancient, you want opus, it thoroughly
> beats both mp3 and aac at any bitrate.  Even I, with untrained ears and
> shitty gear, can ABX 320kbit mp3 on some samples.  Never tried with aac but
> it's said to be similar.  On the other hand, pretty few people can ABX opus
> at just 96k, so encoding at 128k is fine if you're paranoid about quality.
> Yes, it is that much better.
> 
> If your target _is_ ancient, you want mp3 for compatibility.  You'd need to
> encode at a crap quality to let aac be significantly better.
> 
> > but AAC does not present itself as an available target
> 
> It's patented out of the wazoo.
> 


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