Re: [DNG] the azeri project is underway. education for programming children with devuan
Quoting Basati (bas...@basatu.org): > But what do you think about this? Personally, I think: Nola esaten da 'someone is a bit provincial' euskaraz? ;-> Ongi etorri. Pozten naiz zu ezagutzeaz. (Ez dakit euskaraz hitz egiten. But the world is much richer for your native language, and I thank & congratulate you for the Azeri project.) > I thought this was a little trolly. Jakinduria. (Seriously, I do _not_ speak your fine language, so I hope I didn't mangle it too badly.) -- Cheers, "I am a member of a civilization (IAAMOAC). Step back Rick Moenfrom anger. Study how awful our ancestors had it, yet r...@linuxmafia.com they struggled to get you here. Repay them by appreciating McQ! (4x80) the civilization you inherited." -- David Brin ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] the azeri project is underway. education for programming children with devuan
On Wednesday 25 July 2018 at 23:06:14, Carl Fink wrote: > On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 09:15:39PM +0200, Basati wrote: > > > I've already named it: azeri (in Basque it means fox, children will need > > the skills of a fox for this) > > "Azeri" means "A Turkic people of Central Asia, native to Azerbaijan, or > their language. Synonymous with Azerbaijani." At least, that's the common > meaning for speakers of English. I am native English, and my opinion on this is "what?" If someone started talking to me about "Azeri" or "Azeris", I would have no clue what they were talking about. If they talk to me about "Azerbaijanis", I would know who/what they meant, but I might still wonder why they wanted to talk to me about them. I really do not think "Azeri" is "common" for speakers of English. Antony. -- Users don't know what they want until they see what they get. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] the azeri project is underway. education for programming children with devuan
El miércoles, 25 de julio de 2018 17:06:14 (CEST) Carl Fink escribió: > Your subject line reads as if you said, "Using devuan to mind-control > children." > But what do you think about this? You think I'm trying to control the kids? Uncle I'm in devuan...I think that's enough to explain it, > "Azeri" means "A Turkic people of Central Asia, native to Azerbaijan, or > their language. Synonymous with Azerbaijani." At least, that's the common > meaning for speakers of English. Okay, but I'm Basque and that's my mother language. And Azeri is a fox. point. And this is the name, because they're going to need the special skills of foxes. That it is one of the few daytime animals that survives the systematic attack of humans. it has become clear to you? I thought this was a little trolly. basati ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] there is a problem with the freenode support channel in spanish
hello We have two channels #devuan.mx and #devuan.es in spanish This is very confusing, it seems that channel manager #devuan-es is missing. The logical thing to do is that it is the only channel localized in Spanish that there is only one. I don't know who has group contact with freenode. It would be to erase the #devuan-mx channel and leave the #devuan-en location channel I intend to give support in Spanish. I'n need channel management permissions. And I would assume it as a responsibility in devuan thanks basati ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd and ssh-server
KatolaZ wrote: > Replace 'links2' with 'openssh-server' and 'libfbdirect' with > 'libsystemd0', and you should see what I mean. Most of the De??an > installations actually have tons of libraries that are never used, or > are just used to probe for a certain functionality that is not > available. This happens all the time, under the hood. Well yyeee, and no. AIUI it is **possible** to write your program with functionality along the lines of : - test if libx is available - if so -- load libx -- call function y to see if facility z is available But that's a fair bit more work than just : (assume libx is present, link to libx when building binary) - call function y and let the system take care of loading libx Certainly when I raised a bug report against clamav the response was a "quite emphatic" "that's how it works, if libsystemd0 isn't present then your system is broken because that's now Debian policy". It's clear that libsystemd linkage is here to stay in Debian packaging, and it's equally clear that rebuilding **LOTS** of packages *just* to remove that one call to find out that systemd isn't present would not be a good use of the limited developer time & skills available. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] the azeri project is underway. education for programming children with devuan
Your subject line reads as if you said, "Using devuan to mind-control children." On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 09:15:39PM +0200, Basati wrote: [snip] > I've already named it: azeri (in Basque it means fox, children will need the > skills of a fox for this) "Azeri" means "A Turkic people of Central Asia, native to Azerbaijan, or their language. Synonymous with Azerbaijani." At least, that's the common meaning for speakers of English. -- Carl Fink nitpick...@nitpicking.com Read John Grant's book, Corrupted Science: http://a.co/9UsUoGu Dedicated to ... Carl Fink! ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] the azeri project is underway. education for programming children with devuan
El 25/07/18 a las 21:15, Basati escribió: I've already named it: azeri (in Basque it means fox, children will need the skills of a fox for this) LOL :) ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] the azeri project is underway. education for programming children with devuan
Thanks to your encouragement. I've decided to get serious about the project for kids with raspberry. I've already named it: azeri (in Basque it means fox, children will need the skills of a fox for this) I expect to have a beta version of the project by the end of the year. I will keep you informed A greeting basati ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd and ssh-server
On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 11:59:06AM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote: > On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 10:20:56PM -1000, Joel Roth wrote: > > > Katolaz wrote on March 2, 2018: > > > > > > > Most of those "alarming" files are just systemd units files, put there > > by daemons/packages/utilities who "also" support systemd in a way or > > another. So they are not alarming but just *totally* *harmless* if you > > don't have a running systemd as PID 1, since only systemd understands > > and can run them. It would be *totally* *useless* (and utterly > > *stupid* IMHO) to fork, rebuild, and maintain a few more hundred > > packages only because they happen to provide a systemd unit file for > > those systems where systemd is used. > > Package dependencies are of the form > Install X if Y is installed > Too bad it doesn't handle > Install X it Y and Z are installed. > I suspect, though, we don't wand to have to embed a SAT solver into the > package manager. It's already complicated enough. > Nope. Package dependencies are in the form: X needs Y You have no way of specifying: X needs Y only of Z is present otherwise it needs W especially because Z can be added or removed at a later time. Also, packages ship binaries, and binaries are already compiled, so if your binary was linked against libfbdirect, you need libfbdirect to be able to run it, even if you'll never use the capabilities of libfbdirect. The example of the libfbdirect dependency I have in mind is that of links2: the dep is there even if you will always use links2 only in a virtual terminal, i.e. not in a framebuffer, and links2 will never call any of those libfbdirect functions. Or, it will just call one of them, realise that a framebuffer is not available, and signal it to the user, and/or abort execution with an error. Replace 'links2' with 'openssh-server' and 'libfbdirect' with 'libsystemd0', and you should see what I mean. Most of the De??an installations actually have tons of libraries that are never used, or are just used to probe for a certain functionality that is not available. This happens all the time, under the hood. The alternative to this is to use something like gentoo. Or Linux From Scratch. My2Cents KatolaZ -- [ ~.,_ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - Devuan -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ "+. katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it ] [ @) http://kalos.mine.nu --- Devuan GNU + Linux User ] [ @@) http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia -- GPG: 0B5F062F ] [ (@@@) Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ ] signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd and ssh-server
Hendrik Boom wrote on 25.07.2018 17:59: [cut] > Package dependencies are of the form > Install X if Y is installed > Too bad it doesn't handle > Install X it Y and Z are installed. > I suspect, though, we don't wand to have to embed a SAT solver into the > package manager. It's already complicated enough. Hi Hendrik, I'm not entirely sure I correctly understand what you think that could accomplish. In case you meant it the way I _think_ you did, this would be my two cents worth of comment: It wouldn't help a bit, at least in the case at hand. The package dependency exists to make sure a library (here: libsystemd.so.0) the application (here: sshd) was linked against is present on the system, as otherwise the application would simply fail to start, which is undesirable. Regards, Urban -- Sapere aude! signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd and ssh-server
On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 10:20:56PM -1000, Joel Roth wrote: > Katolaz wrote on March 2, 2018: > > > Most of those "alarming" files are just systemd units files, put there > by daemons/packages/utilities who "also" support systemd in a way or > another. So they are not alarming but just *totally* *harmless* if you > don't have a running systemd as PID 1, since only systemd understands > and can run them. It would be *totally* *useless* (and utterly > *stupid* IMHO) to fork, rebuild, and maintain a few more hundred > packages only because they happen to provide a systemd unit file for > those systems where systemd is used. Package dependencies are of the form Install X if Y is installed Too bad it doesn't handle Install X it Y and Z are installed. I suspect, though, we don't wand to have to embed a SAT solver into the package manager. It's already complicated enough. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] New user of Devuan
Hi, El 25/07/18 a las 10:01, Stephane Ascoet escribió: Hi, The other issue I had with ejecting the CD/DVD from the tray is now half-solved. I mean although the simple "eject" command in CLI does open the tray, I'd rather want to have a possibility such as a right-click on the CD/DVD icon in a file manager and then from a menu to choose something like "eject" or "unmount volume". (Similarly to what I can in Ubuntu/Debian etc.) As I mention in my first mail, this machine is prepared for using in a seniors club and it is hardly expecting elderly users to remember they need to open CLI and type "eject" every time they want to pick up their optical medium. By the way, I have also noticed here that inserting a CD/DVD in this Devuan installation does not mount the medium automatically, neither it opens a file manager. How to make it the same way as it does in Ubuntu/Debian? Tnx. It seems to me that this is window-manager related, wich one do you use(sorry if you already told it)? It's related with the file manager's configuration. Go to "preferencies->advanced->device mangement" or something similar. Cheers, Aitor. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd and ssh-server
On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 02:41:52AM -0500, goli...@dyne.org wrote: > On 2018-07-25 02:11, Hleb Valoshka wrote: > > On 7/23/18, Rolf Schmidt wrote: > > > > > I would ask, if it is true, that the openssh-server still needs > > > libsystemd0 in ascii? > > > > Yes. > > > > > Can I expect e fix? > > > > It's required just to notify systemd that sshd is running, so in > > systemd-less system it's nop. So mostly libsystemd0 is harmless. > > > > Currently Devuan team doesn't have enough man power to fork every > > single package just to cleanup its dependencies. > > ___ > > > > According to KatolaZ libsystemd is "*totally* *harmless* if you > don't have a running systemd as PID 1". It is however annoying to have to > see it though. > > https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=7853#p7853 > > Unfortunately the archive of that post has been corrupted and is no longer > available. Katolaz wrote on March 2, 2018: > leloft wrote: > > I issued $locate systemd > and got 200 lines of output, including > /etc/systemd/system/* (23 files) > /lib/systemd/system/* (60 files) > /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libsystemd.so.0 (and 0.17.0) > /usr/lib/systemd (25 files) > /usr/bin/deb-systemd-helper ((and deb-systemd-invoke) > /var/lib/systemd/deb-systemd-helper-enabled/* (68 files) > /var/lib/dpkg/info/libsystemd):amd64* (5 files) > > This seems a lot to me. Please could you confirm that an ascii > installation should contain 200 systemd files as part of a normal > ascii installation. Sorry to trouble you if these are trivial > questions, but they feel far from that. > Many thanks > leloft Most of those "alarming" files are just systemd units files, put there by daemons/packages/utilities who "also" support systemd in a way or another. So they are not alarming but just *totally* *harmless* if you don't have a running systemd as PID 1, since only systemd understands and can run them. It would be *totally* *useless* (and utterly *stupid* IMHO) to fork, rebuild, and maintain a few more hundred packages only because they happen to provide a systemd unit file for those systems where systemd is used. libsystemd0 is used by some daemons to verify if systemd is running or not. If it's not, libsystemd is *totally* *harmless*. HND KatolaZ P.S.: I guess we should consider including the last two paragraphs above on www.devuan.org, or put it in the mailing list signature... -- Joel Roth ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] New user of Devuan
Hi, The other issue I had with ejecting the CD/DVD from the tray is now half-solved. I mean although the simple "eject" command in CLI does open the tray, I'd rather want to have a possibility such as a right-click on the CD/DVD icon in a file manager and then from a menu to choose something like "eject" or "unmount volume". (Similarly to what I can in Ubuntu/Debian etc.) As I mention in my first mail, this machine is prepared for using in a seniors club and it is hardly expecting elderly users to remember they need to open CLI and type "eject" every time they want to pick up their optical medium. By the way, I have also noticed here that inserting a CD/DVD in this Devuan installation does not mount the medium automatically, neither it opens a file manager. How to make it the same way as it does in Ubuntu/Debian? Tnx. It seems to me that this is window-manager related, wich one do you use(sorry if you already told it)? -- Sincerely, Stephane Ascoet ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd and ssh-server
On 2018-07-25 02:11, Hleb Valoshka wrote: On 7/23/18, Rolf Schmidt wrote: I would ask, if it is true, that the openssh-server still needs libsystemd0 in ascii? Yes. Can I expect e fix? It's required just to notify systemd that sshd is running, so in systemd-less system it's nop. So mostly libsystemd0 is harmless. Currently Devuan team doesn't have enough man power to fork every single package just to cleanup its dependencies. ___ According to KatolaZ libsystemd is "*totally* *harmless* if you don't have a running systemd as PID 1". It is however annoying to have to see it though. https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=7853#p7853 Unfortunately the archive of that post has been corrupted and is no longer available. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd and ssh-server
On 7/23/18, Rolf Schmidt wrote: > I would ask, if it is true, that the openssh-server still needs > libsystemd0 in ascii? Yes. > Can I expect e fix? It's required just to notify systemd that sshd is running, so in systemd-less system it's nop. So mostly libsystemd0 is harmless. Currently Devuan team doesn't have enough man power to fork every single package just to cleanup its dependencies. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
