Re: [DNG] [OT] Re: (forw) [GoLugTech] Microsoft buys GitHub

[Aldemir Akpinar]

On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 at 10:06, Didier Kryn  wrote:

> Le 05/06/2018 à 08:48, Lars Noodén a écrit :
> > Of the the targets for purchase, I'd say that Canonical is weakest and
> > M$ always goes after the weak and crappy products.  Ubuntu is not crappy
> > but Canonical is not in good shape and like Red Hat it has been
> > infiltrated at the executive level by "former" Microsofters.  But unlike
> > Red Hat because Canonical is much smaller, these are a much higher
> > percentage of the team and have an outsized influence.  A purchase could
> > further damage upstream Debian and thus Devuan.
>
>
>  They have enough money to buy any private company. The most usefull
> is RH because it has the full control over systemd and most other
> distros are now dependant on systemd. All the Linux community is
> strongly dependant on RH, not only via systemd, but because RH is the
> most important developper in Linux, including in the kernel. And RH is
> already developping the bizness model of making profit out of Linux.
>
>  I'm convinced systemd is a major step delibaretely made by RH in
> view of its resale to M$.
>
>  Didier
>
>
That's is correct. RH & M$ are trying to control this behemoth called open
source world, which is mostly sneered by the latter in it's early days. And
as always M$ was late to the game. RH on the other had a good start by
posing systemd as an init system to assert it's power. so yes github
acquision or systemd it's al about controlling potential risks to not to
harm your profit.
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Re: [DNG] Two packages I miss in ascii/stretch

[Aldemir Akpinar]

On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 at 22:09,  wrote:

> I'm putting off an upgrade to ascii because it doesn't include two
> packages I (still?) use: nagios3 and twinkle.
>
> * how can I find out why they're not moving forward?
> * what would you suggest as a replacement for nagios or twinkle (SIP
> client)?
>
> Thanks, Luigi
> 


Don’t know about twinkle but in stretch/ascii there is icinga instead of
nagios. Icinga is a fork of nagios so you can use  your existing
configuration with it.
—
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Re: [DNG] Is the removal of powermgmt-base from apts' suggested packages a problem for us?

[Aldemir Akpinar]

On 28 February 2018 at 08:03, taii...@gmx.com  wrote:

> With actions like these I can't understand why some people think it is
> weird for me to believe that SystemD is a conspiracy to weaken computer
> security, they are constantly trying to force people to use it with shady
> crap like this.
>
> Why after all would every distro that prides on being different suddenly
> adapt the exact same init system? just because? I can't believe why the US
> government is fine with a foreign national pulling the computer security
> rug out from under them - despite claims of systemd being the TLA's doing
> they are still using it!
>
> SystemD systems take minutes to boot even without the bogus "start/stop
> job running for *thing*" whereas devuan takes 15 seconds, it isn't better
> in any way but the so called experts of the world clamor for it and insist
> your thoughts on the matter don't matter - the same people who think that a
> non-owner controlled MS "secure" boot is just fine because oh hey a MS
> signed grub comes with RHEL.
>
> _
>

There's definitely an agenda, be it hidden or not. Redhat is leading this
and they always claim to lead the open source movement. You can see hear
this a lot in any of their events, however I think this is getting out of
hand, there's an OSS project which I'm trying to contribute to, and
recently I saw a pull request which changes installation docs, asking to
use 5-6 unit files instead of a 5 liner cron file. On another project I'm
working on (sadly on RHEL7) when I unmount a mount point with a bash script
systemd tries to remount the mount points and doesn't honour the fstab,
because, apparently it makes its own copy of fstab ( a unit file) during
boot time, and when you reload it to re-create its unit file and fstab is
somehow not what it should be reboots the system to what we know as init 1.
So it's nothing to do with boot times, or init systems, it's about trying
to control and try to make systems work in their own way. And this usually
produces unexpected behaviour and hassle. Also I don't like software trying
to be clever because they mostly fail to be.

My 2 cents,
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Re: [DNG] ..forensics on systemd or journald logs, was: rc.local removed from Debian 9, rly?

[Aldemir Akpinar]

On 22 November 2017 at 17:22, Arnt Gulbrandsen 
wrote:

> Aldemir Akpinar writes:
>
>> Could you elaborate why are you comparing a relational database system
>> where its files must be binary with a logging system where its files
>> doesn't need to binary?
>>
>
> You make it sound is if binary files were some sort of horror that
> requires special justification. Please argue the point. Does a text format
> justify x% performance loss? y% increase in line count or code complexity?
> Pick x/y.
>
>
> Arnt
>
>
>
No, I've actually asked an honest question. I didn't imply anything at all.
But all I get is trolling, not an answer to my Q :)

Anyway, I'm done with these e-mails today. Doesn't help Devuan at all.
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Re: [DNG] ..forensics on systemd or journald logs, was: rc.local removed from Debian 9, rly?

[Aldemir Akpinar]

On 22 November 2017 at 17:03, John Hughes  wrote:

> On 22/11/17 14:18, Aldemir Akpinar wrote:
>
>
> That's routine. Few readers read everything that can be read. For example,
>> look at postgres. Its binary file format reveals quite a bit more than you
>> can get using psql, and by design: The writer and binary format are
>> intended for storing things quickly and reliably, and the reader for
>> reading what was stored. Anything that's in the file but wasn't stored by
>> instruction of an SQL user is uninteresting to psql, and the file format
>> writer has no particular reason to avoid storing other information.
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Could you elaborate why are you comparing a relational database system
> where its files must be binary with a logging system where its files
> doesn't need to binary?
>
>
> Need?  Nothing "needs" to be in binary[*].  It's a design decision.  Do
> the advantages of a structured format (mostly speed) override the
> disadvantages (higher costs for access if the reader software is
> unavailable?
>
> [*] or, to put it another way -- *everything on a computer is in binary*.
> "Text" files are binary.  The question is how easy is it to decode the file
> format.  It seems obvious that a "text" file is easy to decode, everyone
> knows the format (but what character set is it in?), but don't forget that
> the "text" file is stored on a filesystem, which is itself a complicated
> "binary" structure.  When you're talking about "forensics", i.e. looking at
> something that may be broken in exciting ways, it's quite naïve to assume
> that you can just mount the filesystem (which one?) and use cat, vi, grep
> or whatever.
>
>

That's still not the answer to my question!
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Re: [DNG] ..forensics on systemd or journald logs, was: rc.local removed from Debian 9, rly?

[Aldemir Akpinar]

> That's routine. Few readers read everything that can be read. For example,
> look at postgres. Its binary file format reveals quite a bit more than you
> can get using psql, and by design: The writer and binary format are
> intended for storing things quickly and reliably, and the reader for
> reading what was stored. Anything that's in the file but wasn't stored by
> instruction of an SQL user is uninteresting to psql, and the file format
> writer has no particular reason to avoid storing other information.
>
> If you really want to look at the details in postgres, you can take a good
> guess at whether two rows were inserted at the same time or one later than
> the other.
>
> That's why forensics people use the files. Systemd is about the millionth
> system to join the club. Flame postgres and vast numbers of others before
> you flame systemd. Or better yet, limit your statements about systemd to
> what's correct.
>
> Arnt
>

Could you elaborate why are you comparing a relational database system
where its files must be binary with a logging system where its files
doesn't need to binary?

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Re: [DNG] Expansion of the development team

[Aldemir Akpinar]

On 5 November 2017 at 21:44,  wrote:

> Dear Dev1rs,
>
> Because Devuan is growing and needs more hands on deck to make and execute
> important decisions, Devuan's lead development team has grown from three to
> five. This decision evolved over several weeks of discussion.
>
> Original LEADs: nextime, jaromil and Centurion_Dan
>
> New team: jaromil, Centurion_Dan, KatolaZ, Evilham and rrq
>
> The group decided, from the options suggested, that they will be
> collectively referred to as the 'Caretakers'.  Their responsibilities
> include attending to maintenance of the infrastructure and facilitating and
> improving the availability of Devuan to its users. The website's Team page
> will soon reflect the changes.
>
> nextime, while maintaining infrastructure and being available for
> emergencies is currently not participating in the day-to-day operations
> entrusted to the Caretakers.
>
> The Caretakers have been working well together and with renewed energy on
> the task of releasing ASCII 2.0 as soon as possible in order to sync with
> Debian's release schedule.
>
> The Dev1Devs
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Many many thanks to everyone involved with this project. At the end the
day, you guys put your precious time and energy into this project, much
appreciated.
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Re: [DNG] Redhat CEO answers questions

[Aldemir Akpinar]

On 1 November 2017 at 03:24, taii...@gmx.com  wrote:

> On 10/31/2017 10:07 AM, dev wrote:
>
> 
>
>
> SystemD is a power play in the linux community, maybe even a super
> backdoor - why else would every distro suddenly adopt it despite it not
> being an improvement over SysVinit.
> 
>


Oh yes indeed it is a power play. Redhat itself says that by being an
influencer in the OSS community they can provide a better service to its
customers. So it's not about freedom or choice, it's about making $$$.

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[DNG] Redhat CEO answers questions

[Aldemir Akpinar]

In case you guys have missed, Jim Whitehurst, redhat ceo, answered some
questions on slashdot, and of course many people asked about systemd. You
can find the question and his answer here:

https://linux.slashdot.org/story/17/10/30/0237219/interviews-red-hat-ceo-jim-whitehurst-answers-your-questions?utm_source=feedly1.0mainlinkanon&utm_medium=feed

And if you can't be bothered to read, his conclusion is:

"So we'll continue to invest in systemd, as it meets our customer's
expectations around capabilities, stability, maturity, and community
momentum. There's not a realistic alternative today that comes close in
terms of adoption and functionality. That said, we're always watching how
projects and communities evolve and in that way, systemd is no different
from any other component that we ship."


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Re: [DNG] Debian testing drop redis non systemd

[Aldemir Akpinar]

>
>
>
>
> No need to panic. The situation is under control. Noone will pull sysv
> init support from redis.
>
> HND
>
> KatolaZ
>
>
That's the spirit! Many many thanks!
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Re: [DNG] opinions and experience with monit

[Aldemir Akpinar]

On Tue, 22 Aug 2017 at 18:54, Jaromil  wrote:

>
> dear DNG'ers
>
> on my quest to study more supervision programs for my own use, I've
> found out (just now!) about monit:
>
>  https://mmonit.com/monit/
>
> I'm wondering if you have experiences using it and what are your
> opinions, it seems to me that is a well written, minimal enough
> addition to sysvlinux when more features are desirable but no
> entanglement is aloud.
>
> is there someone here who knows it / has already experience with it?
>
> ciao
>

I used to use it to restart my crashing tomcat processes. Quite nice, very
flexible and does what it promises. I'm not using it anymore because I
changed jobs ( ultimate solution for crashing services :)

>
> --
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Re: [DNG] Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames logic reversing proposal

[Aldemir Akpinar]

On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 at 16:38, Daniel Reurich 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> We discussed a few weeks back in a dev meeting whether or not to revert
> to jessie like naming scheme for ethernet interfaces by default.
>
> The eudev package (currently found in the experimental repos and at
> https://git.devuan.org/devuan-packages/eudev ) utilizes the same logic
> like udev does when it comes to interface naming schemes. The patch
> appended below would reverse the logic and make it opt-in rather than
> opt-out.
>
> This would lead network interface names default to the old "eth0" or
> "wlan0" scheme, rather than the new(?) "enp0s3"-like scheme. It implies
> having "net.ifnames=1" in the kernel cmdline to get the "enp0s3"-like
> scheme and not touching anything to get the "eth0" scheme.
>
> To keep these things consistent we should also apply the same patch to
> udev as well.
>
> Thoughts??
>
> 


+1 for eth0/wlan0, newly introduced naming scheme is horrible.

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Re: [DNG] This mailing list (was: Re: Nvidia Drivers)

[Aldemir Akpinar]

On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 at 14:19, vmlinux  wrote:

> SINCE WHEN ED? This had better be the appropriate place to discuss such
> questions because I sure don't come here for the drama. I come here for the
> technical insight, collective problem solving and all things Devuan. If
> that's not what were doing here, correct me, and I'll happily unsubscribe.
>
> 


+1

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Re: [DNG] systemd: good riddance!

[Aldemir Akpinar]

On 30 June 2017 at 09:14, Nate Bargmann  wrote:
> * On 2017 30 Jun 00:55 -0500, Alessandro Selli wrote:
>
>>   Maybe it's me, but what the hell is a DNS resolver doing inside an init
>> system?
>
> The same thing that a time sync (NTP) daemon is doing in there...
>
> - Nate
> 

And these lads still think that they can do a better job rewriting all
these daemons.
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Re: [DNG] Why I don't want to have Pöttersoft on my system

[Aldemir Akpinar]

On 17 April 2017 at 12:18, Klaus Ethgen  wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA512
>
> https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/5644
>
> No further comment needed.
>
> Have fun reading. (Found on popular fefe blog)
>
> Regards
>Klaus
> - --
> Klaus Ethgen   http://www.ethgen.ch/
> pub  4096R/4E20AF1C 2011-05-16Klaus Ethgen 
> Fingerprint: 85D4 CA42 952C 949B 1753  62B3 79D0 B06F 4E20 AF1C
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Comment: Charset: ISO-8859-1
>
> iQGzBAEBCgAdFiEEMWF28vh4/UMJJLQEpnwKsYAZ9qwFAlj0iFIACgkQpnwKsYAZ
> 9qzKJQv/a3Z7bcm+omXOwzIcE14U0Xz98RFWKm3Rgqwxva+Y2DmIQHTNjrFkQz8x
> MJrYyjydiasRQ2F9/JoJVw9TkWNM+v/t9K394KzN7rQth/5eBawpiAeCgbPaHEE0
> W4ambK5j/ZydsH+lzLpPVsrtzbpzK9fe5/Xr3+KUrrF626CnsjbwGqX4a+Gfj2aL
> dLOqKA38inyeeodiha0VCIIRWNSxHtv2SGGcf28Pq89U2PGN/NImymPzn6RVN7am
> CGksBg+m0nPPgAE+BlAqb74HEOwCKiYZRQATNpvBG0dbbmqqPKoob61Hf2+DSwEs
> nms+W7+0nmW8VoKf+gORPScqh2hF6AqImr6qYTo7lXGZga2+iz+EbntB1VI0jZc0
> GWTBm7FISc3TccaCw8mQAPAcLPmSZzilVu9j/3DYzLs12ISd4vNYDcDl2XPm0cNe
> xZzqseh0YCuCmYOlpoQP+LmDeCe+h/CTp/Wmu4NbzbnXh5fOyVPjhGZ1LWoRkxZW
> V0TaOAeg
> =7Cfl
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
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It also has the grand finale:

poettering  locked and limited conversation
to collaborators 2 hours ago


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Re: [DNG] Systemd-Illness in procps.

[Aldemir Akpinar]

On 5 December 2016 at 08:50, Joel Roth  wrote:

> Nate Bargmann wrote:
> > If there is no technical reason for it, is it spite?
>
> The natural tendency to grasp for a piece of technical
> candy, trying to play nicely with others who are all
> using it, to name two other
> possible reasons.
>
>
> > - Nate
> >
> > --
> >
> > "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
> > possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
> >
> > Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us
> > ___
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> --
> Joel Roth
>
>
>
>
Seems like it's been infected about 1.5 years ago.

https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/collab-maint/procps.git/commit/?id=e24f0f994ad3279eb387bea8cda907d4e6f61926


(Correct me if I'm wrong) I think the idea is to retrieve login details
from systemd-login for ps output. Is this information available on a
systemd system with normal syscalls I do not know.

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Re: [DNG] Cacti version 0.8.8b fails communicaction with SNMP agent

[Aldemir Akpinar]

On 1 December 2016 at 17:21, Alessandro Selli 
wrote:

>   Hello people,
> I'm writing on this ML about this issue I've had with cacti before
> I'll be able to edit https://git.devuan.org/devuan-packages (if
> ever :-).
>   The version of Cacti that ships with Jessie (0.8.8b) just wouldn't talk
> (or listen) to the SNMP agent.  There is nothing wrong with the SNMP agent,
> as snmpget and snmpwalk work just fine from the command line.  However, if
> on
> cacti's web interface I set "Downed Device Detection" to "SNMP Uptime" it
> would always report "Status - Down".  Uptime detection does not involve the
> DB and Apache/PHP do not show any malfuction, so the problem must lay with
> Cacti itself.  As I have a Fedora 24 available, I tried the same
> configuration on that machine.  It worked just fine.
>
> Devuan 1.0 Jessie installs:
> ii  cacti  0.8.8b+dfsg- all  web interface for graphing of
> mon
>
> Fedora 24 installs:
> cacti-0.8.8h-1.fc24.noarch
>
>   Log file /var/log/cacti/cacti.log reports:
>
> 11/30/2016 04:55:03 PM - CMDPHP: Poller[0] WARNING: SNMP Get Timeout for
> Host:'localhost', and OID:'.1.3.6.1.2.1.1.3.0' 11/30/2016 04:55:03 PM -
> CMDPHP: Poller[0] Host[1] SNMP: Host did not respond to SNMP
>
>   And yet:
>
> [alessandro@wrkstn03 ~]$ snmpget -v 2c -c "$ROCOMMUNITY"
> localhost .1.3.6.1.2.1.1.3.0
> iso.3.6.1.2.1.1.3.0 = Timeticks: (122187)
> [alessandro@wrkstn03 ~]$
>
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Hi Alessandro,
I know this is not very helpful, but, cacti is virtually a dead project
(still no 0.9 for about 10 years and still waiting). I suggest using
librenms which is much better and useful. (http://www.librenms.org/)

Regards,
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Re: [DNG] Systemdconf

[Aldemir Akpinar]

On 18 October 2016 at 13:49, Nate Bargmann  wrote:

> * On 2016 18 Oct 03:10 -0500, Aldemir Akpinar wrote:
> > Apparently systemd is having a conference in a week in Berlin. Looking at
> > the schedule ( https://cfp.systemd.io/en/systemdconf_2016/public/
> schedule/0 )
> > is, I think, helpful for us to see what's happening in the systemd
> > universe. Also it's not surprising to see that Redhat is the main
> > sponsor.
>
> According to the way I read the schedule, this has already taken place
> about three weeks ago, Sept 28 through Oct 1.
>
> At the end of Day 2 was a forum, "Talking to systemd from a Web
> Browser".  Uhhh, wut?  That was preceeded by, "Automotive startup and
> device management".  Uhh, nope, not for me.
>
> I wonder when they discussed rounding up and reeducating all the Unix
> gray beards?
>
> - Nate
>
>
>
Yes, I misread the dates.

Tobias kindly sent me the links to the presentations:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUUbFGNZ1vI (state of the union,
portable services)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zN0b6BfgLY (bus1)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnnL1GCioKY (resolved)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgOV5rAe6xQ (networkd)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uYkW1K0wxo (wireless daemon)


I watched a few of them, and I recommend you to watch the state of the
union(!) video, especially the last part of it. You can download services
from the internet (Lennart claims it will be sandboxed and secure), or you
can start services with -H hostname on a another server a bit like a ssh
root@hostname "systemdctl start xxx" kind of a thing. And I find those
alarming and a bit pointless.

Anyways as you've said we're obsolete grey beards :)
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[DNG] Systemdconf

[Aldemir Akpinar]

Apparently systemd is having a conference in a week in Berlin. Looking at
the schedule ( https://cfp.systemd.io/en/systemdconf_2016/public/schedule/0 )
is, I think, helpful for us to see what's happening in the systemd
universe. Also it's not surprising to see that Redhat is the main sponsor.
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[DNG] How to crash systemd in one tweet

[Aldemir Akpinar]

Here's a blog post I've found today, pointing out the crappy design of
systemd.
Well, we've talked about this many many times here,  and I hope we see more
of these on the web.

https://www.agwa.name/blog/post/how_to_crash_systemd_in_one_tweet

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Re: [DNG] ifupdown, udev, libudev1 and systemd

[Aldemir Akpinar]

On Sunday, September 4, 2016, Edward Bartolo  wrote:

> So, the "intentional" package breakage continues unabated... I think,
> it is time to start thinking about using wpasupplicant instead of
> ifupdown as the workhorse for simple-netaid.
>
> When I started simple-netaid someone recommended I use
> wpasupplicant If wpasupplicant is better, it will be worth the
> effort.
>
> Edward
>
>
>
>
>
> I see your point however for the sake of all these gazzillion  servers out
i'd much rather have a simple script to configure the interfaces preferebly
without any gibberish interface names and no extra daemons running.
I also see that this approach isnt viable for desktop use. But i am usually
looking at this issue from a servers point of view.



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Re: [DNG] SystemD's brownie points over non-systemd OSs.

[Aldemir Akpinar]

> Sun, Aug 07, 2016 at 06:31:10PM +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote:
>
> On the other hand, full-machine virtualization costs you the max of
> assigned
> memory to that system, at all time.
>

Going off-topic but I just wanted to correct this statement, when you're
using full machine virtualization in the worst case it will use all the
memory assigned to the server (unless you're using xen). Products like
vmware or hyper-v uses in memory deduplication and swapping the virtual
machine files to the disk to reduce the memory usage.

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Re: [DNG] Oh, how I hate systemd

[Aldemir Akpinar]

On 3 August 2016 at 14:49, Rowland Penny  wrote:

>
>
> A quick trawl of the internet led to an interesting fact, systemd now
> mounts /etc read-only and if /etc/resolv.conf doesn't exist, systemd
> creates a dangling symlink.
>

This is getting even more ridiculous. It just manifests the mindset of
systemD developers:  "we know better that you do, so you'd better not touch
the actual config files, until we destroy them for good with another crappy
idea. "
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Re: [DNG] You might have seen this already...

[Aldemir Akpinar]

>
>
> I firmly belief that those who are implementing these changes
> understand the shortcomings of their new solutions, but they are paid
> to implement them, and pay is much more important than all
> philosophical and technical reasons put together. After all, it is
> money that counts.
>

Well said! Thanks Edward!
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Re: [DNG] Well Done, Devuan!

[Aldemir Akpinar]

On Friday, 29 April 2016, Edward Bartolo  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Well done to all involved in:
> i) revamping Devuan's website making it pleasantly readable and
> looking modern without the unnecessary bloat associated with modern
> websites. WELL DONE to all involved.
> ii) for publishing Devuan Beta Edition (although to me Devuan is more
> like rock solid rather than beta)
>
> Edward
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Well done everyone, and I can't wait to replace my prod servers with
Devuan!


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Re: [DNG] Coreutils 8.25 ls output

[Aldemir Akpinar]

On 19 February 2016 at 05:11, dev1fanboy  wrote:

> Little late to this thread, that sounds like annoying default behaviour
> and more of this same mentality that breaking backwards compatibility is
> OK, it's really not at all. Really it should be the other way, set -N to
> use the new wrapping. But hey why not right, systemd does this so we should
> too.
>
> Cheers,
>
> chillfan
>
>

Funnily, the thread now has a systemd side debate as well :) Just slightly.

See:
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/coreutils/2016-02/msg00026.html
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/coreutils/2016-02/msg00034.html
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/coreutils/2016-02/msg00037.html


Also those messages contains good arguments against the ls change.

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Re: [DNG] Coreutils 8.25 ls output

[Aldemir Akpinar]

On Tuesday, 16 February 2016, Steve Litt  wrote:

> On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 16:07:35 +0200
> Aldemir Akpinar > wrote:
>
>
> My response is unresponsive to your question, aldemir, but this is
> something I've given lots of thought to in the past. I quote from the
> referenced web page:
>
> =
>
> I just noticed that on one of my machines (running Debian Sid)
> whenever I type ls any file name
> with spaces has single quotes surrounding it.
> ^^^
>
> =
>
>
>
My question was obviously a rhetorical one. And I aggree that ideally
filenames shouldn't have whitespaces in them however real world is far from
ideal.
The point I was trying to make was, I think we are seeing a pattern here
just like systemd debate. While it's effect is relatively minor in this
example some developer thinks forcing such stuff on people is ok.
Especially on a tool like ls.
I remember similar arguments with journald, where even the systemd fanboys
complained, and the response was, "but you caan always switch it off" . And
now they tell us to add such
and such switch to our aliases to work as we would normally. Who
knows what 8.25 will break.
And also I'm thinking what's the next surprise gonna be.
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Re: [DNG] Coreutils 8.25 ls output

[Aldemir Akpinar]

>
>
> Hmm ... why do you think so?
>
> BTW: 'Console' and 'terminal' are two rather different things.
>
>
Doesn't your init scripts run on the console? Or the scripts that run on
the initial ram disk. Please correct me if I am wrong.

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[DNG] Coreutils 8.25 ls output

[Aldemir Akpinar]

There's a recent discussion on the coreutils mailing list, where some
people complained about the default ls output with latest release. On
coreutils 8.25 ls will wrap filenames with quotes if it includes
whitespace.

And when people protest, the answers are usual arguments; it just happens
on the console output, or just add -N to your aliases etc. etc.

Here's a discussion with the response from the maintainer as well:

http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/258679/why-is-ls-suddenly-surrounding-items-with-spaces-in-single-quotes

When this version hits the distributions, it will break many scripts. So
why change the default behaviour?
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Re: [DNG] Bad UEFI: was Systemd at work: rm -rf EFI

[Aldemir Akpinar]

>
> ..me, I do not see any point in keeping it mounted at all.
> Whenever such a need arises, it should be mounted read-only.
> If a need to write to /sys/firmware/efi/efivars should happen,
> the machine should first be taken off-line, backed-up etc out
> of production and into a maintenance mode, where mounting
> /sys/firmware/efi/efivars read-write, _may_ be warranted.
>
>
+1



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Re: [DNG] PAM usage (Was: Giving Devuan sans-initramfs capabilities)

[Aldemir Akpinar]

On 6 January 2016 at 20:29, Didier Kryn  wrote:

> Le 06/01/2016 17:13, Teodoro Santoni a écrit :
>
>> PAM is a problem, the cups behaviour is another.
>> My problem is to run things as, for example, my cheap
>> hp printer without systemd.
>> Next may come hplip through lprng or lpr.
>> I talk about my printer but dunno, may run wayland someday, or
>> have my family scavenge for money spending on e-commerce
>> through google-chrome.
>> I personally don't use any of those, but without pam, a life
>> without systemd seem much easier.
>> Maybe I'm wrong.
>>
>
> I'm having pam installed on my devuan-jessie-alpha2 and no systemd and
> no libpam-systemd. No problem.
>
> Didier
>
>
Yes, even on a Debian Jessie  I've PAM installed without systemd. And I
fail to see what the big deal about PAM is in this case.
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Re: [DNG] PAM usage (Was: Giving Devuan sans-initramfs capabilities)

[Aldemir Akpinar]

>
> But do any of you find useful to have PAM? Do any of you need
> single-sign-on,
> TPM, smart-cards that unlock ttys, integrate kerberos with linux, or the
> like?
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In many enterprise circles sso makes things a lot easier both for the
employees and the administrators which I am sure many of you will agree. So
authenticating against an Active Directory/LDAP server is commonly used. So
personally I find pam useful, and powerful. But I can also say that it is
too complicated, hard to get the configuration right, very easy to break
your system while fiddling with it, and could have been implement in a
better way. Nevertheless it is better than any systemd product ;)
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Re: [DNG] Don't feed the troll

[Aldemir Akpinar]

On 22 December 2015 at 05:54, Teodoro Santoni  wrote:

> 2015-12-21 21:57 GMT+01:00, Mitt Green :
> > Sir, I simply cannot believe that people choose to
> > spend their time wasting energy just because.
> > Someone surely funds this. You can call me
> > a conspiracy theorist but I can't think of
> > something else. I've literally spent a couple of hours
> > thinking who and why.
>
> https://twitter.com/shitdevuansays


Isn't it interesting that official Debian twitter account is following this?

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Re: [DNG] alternative to raspbian without systemd

[Aldemir Akpinar]

On 27 November 2015 at 06:31, Gregory Nowak  wrote:

>
> I was planning to get a serial cable for the pi, so I can do
> console=ttyS0,115200 to be able to interact with it from boot to shutdown,
> but saw no mention anywhere of being able to do this, so I probably
> won't get the cable. Being blind, I have no use for a screen, and see
> little point to having a keyboard with no output. So whatever
> distribution I would use needs to be light, text-console-based, and
> provide a ready to login ssh server once I put the sd card into the
> pi, and plug it in. Any comments or suggestions would be
> appreciated. I will also be needing another wired usb network
> card. So, if anyone can suggest one which you know is supported by linux,
> that
> would be great too if the list moderators will allow it. Unfortunately
> the product listings don't list the chipset a given card uses. I'll be
> shopping at newegg.com. Thanks in advance.
>
> Greg
>
>
> --
> web site: http://www.gregn.net
> gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc
> skype: gregn1
> (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
> If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your
> contacts.
>
>
>
Hi Greg,
I've a raspberry pi and I've just upgraded the raspbian to Jessie. And as
expected it loaded all the systemd crap just like a Debian Jessie. What you
can of course do is that remove the systemd and revert to sysvinit.  For
the serial port, Raspberry has GPIO ports which you can configure as a
serial  port. In the link below you can find a very detailed explanation. I
hope it helps in your project.
http://elinux.org/RPi_Serial_Connection

However, I must say that it's not as easy as passing a parameter to the
kernel.
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Re: [DNG] Detailed technical treatise of systemd

[Aldemir Akpinar]

On 6 November 2015 at 00:14, Didier Kryn  wrote:

>
>
> Jokes apart, starting daemons in parallel is simply faster when you
> have several cores. I do care booting fast.
>
> Didier
>
>
Guys, seriously, how many times do you boot your computers in a day, 10?
20? 50? If it is that much, then boot times matter.

I rarely boot my servers maybe one or two servers in week or so, and if
your running a server grade hardware, it takes forever to boot. My laptop,
I just get it to sleep.
So I don't  care if it takes 2 minutes for my computer to boot because it
doesn't happen often. Just get a coffee or something meanwhile :)

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Re: [DNG] procps

[Aldemir Akpinar]

On 4 Jul 2015 13:15, "Didier Kryn"  wrote:
>
> Le 04/07/2015 11:10, Martin Steigerwald a écrit :
>>
>> To me it seems that libsystemd0 for some developers is similar to libc
>
>
> That's how Systemd is going pretty fast to become SystemdOS. Next
step is to merge libc into libsystemd0. I think distros enforcing it should
assume this fact by putting the word "Systemd" in their name.
>
> Didier
>
Yes indeed. Soon it is going to be systemd/linux not gnu/linux
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[DNG] Linus answers a question about systemd

[Aldemir Akpinar]

It's the second question:

http://linux.slashdot.org/story/15/06/30/0058243/interviews-linus-torvalds-answers-your-question?utm_source=feedly1.0mainlinkanon&utm_medium=feed


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Re: [Dng] straw poll, non-free firmware for installers

[Aldemir Akpinar]

On 3 Jun 2015 8:50 pm, "Vince Mulhollon"  wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 12:06 PM, Laurent Bercot 
wrote:
>>
>>  when the user buys such a piece of hardware
>
>
> Just be careful, the assumption is the user is the installer is the
buyer, and frankly most of the machines I've installed in the last 20
years, that has not been the case.
>
Well said. It's also the same in the "enterprise" server world. And I know
that in many cases system admins don't have a say in the hardware
purchases. So the problem is not as simple as "buy the most free hardware"
or "just find darn firmware later". Try telling that to a guy who manages
thousands of servers.

Just my two cents.
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Re: [Dng] Freedom Logo

[Aldemir Akpinar]

On 31 March 2015 at 23:38, Svarog  wrote:

> Hi all,
> I uploaded a different version:
> http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/File:Devuan_Freedom_blue1.png
>
> Kind Regards,
> kvasny
> snip
>

Very nice! I like it.
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Re: [Dng] The quote of the year

[Aldemir Akpinar]

On 13 March 2015 at 00:01, Steve Litt  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I just ran across the following quote, which I think the dng people
> will appreciate:
>
> 
> I'm done with my desktop being someone else's research project.
> 
>
>
> http://www.jwz.org/blog/2011/10/has-gnome-3-decided-that-people-shouldnt-want-screen-savers/
>
>
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
> Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance
>
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Well, no worries guys. Our masters are doing the thinking for us!

All in the name of progress, all in the name of progress...
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Re: [Dng] OT: Linux kernel and the force behind it

[Aldemir Akpinar]

>
> BTW I think nobody here cares about having Devuan support Gnome. The
> do-it-all DEs,
> those providing their own integrated replacement for every application,
> are, by design,
> opposed to the Nix principles. It is not a surprise that systemd and Gnome
> are working
> together.
>

I would say +1 for everything that is written with this e-mail and above.
However, there's one thing here,
there are more people running servers than people running linux on their
desktops, so IMHO devuan should first focus on the servers.
So I am quite hopeful about Jude's work that it will solve many of my
headaches.
On the other hand, I know systemd is a bigger problem when you install
anything with a GUI on linux, so I understand many of you guys'
frustrations.
But I think if we are going to sort this problem out we'd better aim a
bigger audience first.

This is my 2 cents.
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Re: [Dng] What's new in Systemd

[Aldemir Akpinar]

On 2 February 2015 at 13:02, Martijn Dekkers 
wrote:

> http://ma.ttias.be/whats-new-systemd-2015-edition/
>
> tl;dr everything, including the kitchensink.
>
> Some of the listed stuff looks/sounds pretty cool, I just have serious
> reservations of all this stuff belonging to one team. I find it very hard
> to see how any kind of quality can be maintained when delivering so much
> functionality in such a short time.
>
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>
I was going to have a rude reply here until I read this at the bottom:

a new secure boot implementation: this is a work-in-progress, to have more
validation of the boot process that it hasn't been tampered with. It will
integrate a new method of signing images and initrd's

Apart from all the crap that we can tease with, why there are people who,
rather than improving grub or lilo, waste their time writing a bootloader
from scratch? Surely not for the benefit of oss. Just for their prides or
they have too much spare time.

Also for anyone, that couldn't bare to read to the end, journald (the most
hated part even for systemd supporters) isn't optional now.

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Re: [Dng] Because the current networking stack isn't good enough, either

[Aldemir Akpinar]

On 15 January 2015 at 03:56, Martijn Dekkers  wrote:

>
> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/15/01/14/2030259/systemd-gains-new-networking-features
>
>
>
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"One ring to rule them all; One ring to find them; One ring to bring them
all and in the darkness bind them"

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Re: [Dng] libsysdev preview

[Aldemir Akpinar]

On 22 January 2015 at 18:05, Jude Nelson  wrote:

> Hi Steve,
>  
>
> Many, many thanks Isaac & Jude. We have great new alternative to udev
happening here. And the best thing is that, you guys are listening to your
potential users!
I think your code will make a great deal of difference in the linux world!
I'm excited I must say.
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Re: [Dng] Wheezy

[Aldemir Akpinar]

>
> snip
> My guess is that it got into squeeze long ago, in the days of
> systemd-innocence.
> snip


 Shall we rename systemd meta package to systemd-innocence in devuan? :)

It seems like dbus depends on systemd-login0. But dbus isn't installed by
default (at least for minimal install).
But if you install any X stuff you can't escape it.

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Re: [Dng] vdev update and design document

[Aldemir Akpinar]

On 2 January 2015 at 10:58, Jude Nelson  wrote:

> Hey everyone,
>
> I just thought I'd post an update on vdev, since I'd mentioned earlier
> that I was shooting for packages by now.  It will take a couple more days,
> but I'm pleased to say that the pre-alpha vdev can do the following:
> Snip
>

Dear Jude,
Firstly, I'm really sensing that vdev is going in a right direction,
especially by listening to the users.
I'm just thinking out loud, what would you (and others on this list) think
about a static-dev mode. Which is, on the boot vdev will populate dev and
exit. And possibly on root's request (manually) it will update /dev.

Nowadays I'm thinking about going the static dev approach but mknod is a
pain for every server install, and it's definite that I'll forget about
something and will cause problems at the most awkward point in time.

Many thanks for all the time you've spent on this project. I think it will
be a good one.
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Re: [Dng] Update from the Veteran Unix Admins

[Aldemir Akpinar]

On 22 December 2014 at 19:26, Jaromil  wrote:
>
>
> Dear Init Freedom lovers,
>
> Once again the Veteran Unix Admin collective salutes you!
>
> 


Thanks for the updates, it's delightful to hear that things are happening.

 On the mailing list we didn't have any discussions about these updates
like loginkitd or consolekit2 etc. So I'm getting the impression that, main
discussion about this project is on IRC? My complaint is that following IRC
conversations takes too much time and attention. However I can follow
mailing list conversation in a time which is more suitable and when I don't
have much in my mind. Can we at least make the mailing lists main
discussion medium? IRC is more needed when you need to get hold of someone
to get help or info asap?

Also someone promised to split the lists, is it going to happen as well?

My last question is,will you be moving these projects like consolekit2
etc,, to git.devuan.org?

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