Re: [DNG] Lennart now working for Microsoft

[Harald Arnesen via Dng]

Steve Litt [08/07/2022 15.57]:


What scares me is if he starts putting Microsoft-centric stuff in
systemd, Linux will need to either migrate away from systemd 


Wouldn't that be what we all want?

or be

subsumed by microsoft.


Won't happen.
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Слава Україні!
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Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?

[Harald Arnesen via Dng]

Karl Hammar [19/01/2022 18.19]:


What is that "if" about, ohh, it is an acronym...

Unfortunately it looks like this insurance company's logotype:
  https://www.if.se/
so, I'd say we cannot use it (it really make me wounder why the
authorities allows thoose names).


If is owned by the Finnish company Sampo, with branches in all Nordic 
countries.


I think we should find a logo that stands out better.
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Re: [DNG] Pipewire and PulseAudio: apulse & firefox

[Harald Arnesen via Dng]

Steve Litt [22/12/2021 12.15]:


The easy suggestion is you can install xfce to get its apps, including
the pretty nice xfce4-terminal

  ^^^
and extremely slow
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Re: [DNG] new firefox-esr buggy?

[Harald Arnesen via Dng]

Radisson via Dng [17/12/2021 21.04]:


Another symptom: when the cursor is moved to or away from the
scroll bar, the grey scrollbar is broken into a vertical set of
grey and light grey lines for about a second. When I drag the
scrollbar to scroll text, text and images are broken up by
horizontal white linees for a about a second. In a colored
image these lines can be colors from the image.



Sounds like a bug with the refreshing.
Does anything change when you cover the area temparly with an other window ?


Another thing, try to turn off "smooth scrolling" (why would anyone want 
that?).

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Re: [DNG] What not to back up

[Harald Arnesen via Dng]

Steve Litt [23/11/2021 21.48]:



The majority of files in /home/yourname are useless. /home/yourname is
a mishmash of stuff you created, settings you use, and useless crap

   

like cache. It's huge and ugly. For that reason I create other top
level directories to hold stuff I created myself.



Really? You don't backup your settings? I would think those were some of 
the most important things.

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Re: [DNG] Devuan with usr merge?

[Harald Arnesen via Dng]

william moss via Dng [05/11/2021 22.49]:


BSD and system V (AT/Bell Labs System Five) switched more than a
decade ago.


Certainly not FreeBSD:

$ uname -or
FreeBSD 13.0-STABLE

$ ls /bin | wc -l
  44

$ ls /usr/bin | wc -l
 488

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Re: [DNG] [OT] British vs American language

[Harald Arnesen via Dng]

Steve Litt [28/07/2021 21.47]:


Don't forget Southern California Coastal English:

- Ate it
- Ate concrete
- Wiped out
- Got Maytagged
- Faceplant
- Roadrash
- Stoked
- Gnarly (antideluvian from 80's)


And then the Jamaicans, and the English-speaking Indians, the Aussies, 
the Kiwis...

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Re: [DNG] Devuan for WSL

[Harald Arnesen via Dng]

Linux O'Beardly via Dng [15.07.2021 19:57]:

> Has anyone attempted and/or had success at creating a WSL distribution
> from a Devuan docker image? I started a new gig and am stuck with a
> Windows laptop, but they will allow us to run WSL. Any info would be
> greatly appreciated. 

Not from a docker image, but I installed Debian and upgraded to Devuan.
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Re: [DNG] Please don't imply this kind of equality: was Re: End of free open source software?

[Harald Arnesen via Dng]

goli...@devuan.org [11.05.2021 20:07]:

> Please let this useless thread die and get back to discussions about 
> free software and making Devuan the best alternative without systemd 
> lock-in.  Thanks.

You beat me to it.
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Re: [DNG] FSF and human rights

[Harald Arnesen via Dng]

Steve Litt [26.03.2021 20:46]:

> Before you sign anything or do anything, ask yourself if this is of top
> importance to you. Are you willing to risk your career, your position
> in your community, perhaps the positions of your family, to defend
> Richard Stallman? Unless the answer is an unmitigated "yes", I'd advise
> you to stay as far from this issue as you can.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing.” ― Edmund Burke
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Re: [DNG] Very offtopic: 70's music

[Harald Arnesen via Dng]

aitor [05.03.2021 15:22]:

> On the other hand, Steve, I would include Yoko Ono's long plays to your
> list of punishments for those people in the hell forced to use systemd,
> in addition to the normal
> 
> fire and brimstone. Yoko Ono for eternity.

So you WANT me to use Substance D (systemd), now...?
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Re: [DNG] Historical note on double negation.

[Harald Arnesen via Dng]

Rick Moen [25.12.2020 05:47]:

> Here, my gift to thee and thee, for the Jul holiday (and let us remember
> Poul and his wife Karen fondly):

He was one of the great SF writers, sorely missed.
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Re: [DNG] Danger: Debian POSIX hostility

[Harald Arnesen via Dng]

Rick Moen [22.09.2020 20:11]:

>> I worry about a different kind of portability. If I ever have to switch
>> to BSD (and this remains a possibility, unfortunately), /bin/* shebangs
>> will not work except for /bin/sh, and /bin/sh is always ash. That is
>> because on BSD everything not in the core system goes into /usr/local.
> You know, if going for maximum portability, you can rely, within the
> shebang, on /usr/bin/env.  Like:
> 
> #!/usr/bin/env bash
> 
> Although there's no absolute guarantee that env(1) will reside in
> /usr/bin on all Unix machines ever made, it does live there on BSDs.
> And I'm willing to bet that it's going to exist and be in /usr/bin on
> Unixes made written the last quarter-century.

And if you have to use a Unix system without env in /usr/bin, you can
always symlink or copy it there. Provided you have root access, of course.
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Re: [DNG] terminology

[Harald Arnesen via Dng]

Curtis Maurand via Dng [24.08.2020 16:30]:

> in plan9 everything is an object.

Not at all. Everything is a file, not an object, whatever that is.
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Re: [DNG] history

[Harald Arnesen via Dng]

Steve Litt [08.08.2020 09:07]:

> Is this enough neoliberal b*shit for you guys?

More than enough. Can you guys move this discussion to another list?
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Re: [DNG] How to mount NTFS

[Harald Arnesen via Dng]

Haines Brown [07.08.2020 18:19]:

> Yes, for sure. If you are right about the speed difference between 
> NTFS and ext4, then is there another FS that can be accessed by a 
> Windows machine that is not much slower than ext4?

fat32. Or if you run a recent kernel on your Linux machine (Devuan 5.4
is ok), then exfat.
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Re: [DNG] Ascii to Beowulf upgrade - 32% slowdown !

[Harald Arnesen via Dng]

Patrick Erdmann [13.06.2020 12:24]:

> My test case is compiling ArcticFox, thus something in the realm of
> Firefox: lots of compiler activity, make, disk access, make and python.
> But, of course, predominant factor is compilation and linking.
> 
> With ascii, I was consistently (= not just one build) doing a clean
> build in about 31 minutes! Quite fast for this small beast and I was happy.
> 
> With beowulf, this number is consistently about 41 minutes.

Do you compile ArcticFox with the same compiler in both cases? GCC gets
slower for each release, it seems...
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Re: [DNG] Which DE?

[Harald Arnesen via Dng]

al3xu5 / dotcommon [25/02/2020 16.29]:

> I am using Devuan (2.1) + MATE DE since 08/2016... 
> Now I wish to change DE but I am in doubt: XFCE or LXDE or LXQt???

Do you drink beer or wine, Pepsi or Coke? Same thing.
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Re: [DNG] Fonts trouble on beowulf

[Harald Arnesen via Dng]

Den 08.01.2020 19:16, skrev Dimitris via Dng:


On 1/8/20 8:07 PM, Rowland penny via Dng wrote:

if you are referring to the mythical bird that rises from the ashes


"φοίνιξ" in ancient greek.
any latin-based name, is just a derivative. :D


I was going to say the same, but it bears more weight when coming from a 
native (I presume) Greek speaker.

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Re: [DNG] Fwd: April's fools mess

[Harald Arnesen via Dng]

Mike Bird [01.04.2019 20:43]:

> Authorised access does not make wrongdoing lawful.  The other Devuan
> admins urgently need to remove you, consult a lawyer or the police,
> replace all authorisation tokens and keys, and rebuild from trusted
> sources.
> 
> Or they could let Devuan revert to a toy project used by five people.

Six. I will not stop using Devuan because of this.
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Re: [DNG] logging uses of machine-id

[Harald Arnesen via Dng]

KatolaZ [12/03/2019 22.54]:

> I am not saying these are not valid complaints, quite the opposite. I
> am just saying that I accepted years ago that the way I use Linux is
> not the same other users use it, and I have to keep this in mind if I
> want to contribute to Devuan.

Well said. Having used Linux as my main OS since 1994, I am fully
capable of using a window manager without a full desktop environment
(previously I used fvwm and icewm), but I am very happy to have a
working xfce.
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Re: [DNG] Creating directory in /var/run on bootup

[Harald Arnesen via Dng]

Rowland Penny via Dng [05/02/2019 21.59]:

>>   I think you meant to write:
>> 
>> if [ ! -d /var/run/barman ]; then mkdir -p /var/run/barman; fi
>> 
> 
> even better:
> 
> [[ -d /var/run/barman ]] || mkdir -p /var/run/barman

Or even simpler:

mkdir -p /var/run/barman

If the directory or any of its parents does not exist, it is created.
Otherwise, the command just returns without any output.
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Re: [DNG] *** GMX Spamverdacht *** Re: Upgraded to Beowulf, GIMP is broken

[Harald Arnesen via Dng]

Dr. Nikolaus Klepp [03.02.2019 00:31]:

> Ok. I found another way: install "libdvd-pkg", this downloads and builds 
> libdvdcss2. And I now I can confirm that dmo repository breaks gimp. I'm just 
> now cleaning my system from all dmo packages.

Yes, I can confirm that Gimp works when I remove all packages from that
repository, following the instructions i found here:

.

Thanks to everyone who responded.
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Re: [DNG] Upgraded to Beowulf, GIMP is broken

[Harald Arnesen via Dng]

KatolaZ [02.02.2019 20:27]:

> On Sat, Feb 02, 2019 at 06:20:50PM +0100, Harald Arnesen via Dng wrote:
>> I have tried to upgrade two of my machines from ASCII to Beowulf. It
>> needed some fiddling with "apt --fix-broken install", trying the
>> dist-upgrade a couple of times and removing a couple of things. But it
>> boots and works ok now.
>> 
>> With the exeption of GIMP. That one gives the following error:
>> 
>> $ gimp
>> gimp: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgegl-0.4.so.0:
>> undefined symbol: babl_format_with_space
> 
> Hi Harald,
> 
> I have been on Beowulf for about 9 months now, and gimp (2.10.8-2)
> works absolutely fine. Is your machine a rpi, by any chance? In that
> case, you should still keel archive.raspberrypi.org enabled, and get
> the libgegl packages from there. I had a similar issue with kodi, and
> using the packages rebuilt for rpi solved the problem.

No, one is a Lenovo ThinkPad T510i, the other a ThinkStation something
(i'm away from that one now).

One thing that may be an issue is that I had the Debian multimedia
repository active when I ran ASCII.
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Re: [DNG] Upgraded to Beowulf, GIMP is broken

[Harald Arnesen via Dng]

Harald Arnesen [02.02.2019 18:20]:

> I have tried to upgrade two of my machines from ASCII to Beowulf. It
> needed some fiddling with "apt --fix-broken install", trying the
> dist-upgrade a couple of times and removing a couple of things. But it
> boots and works ok now.
> 
> With the exeption of GIMP. That one gives the following error:
> 
> $ gimp
> gimp: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgegl-0.4.so.0:
> undefined symbol: babl_format_with_space

And btw, it works with Debian Buster.
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[DNG] Upgraded to Beowulf, GIMP is broken

[Harald Arnesen via Dng]

I have tried to upgrade two of my machines from ASCII to Beowulf. It
needed some fiddling with "apt --fix-broken install", trying the
dist-upgrade a couple of times and removing a couple of things. But it
boots and works ok now.

With the exeption of GIMP. That one gives the following error:

$ gimp
gimp: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgegl-0.4.so.0:
undefined symbol: babl_format_with_space
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Re: [DNG] OT: Changing xfce4-terminal window frame color

[Harald Arnesen via Dng]

goli...@dyne.org [30/01/2019 18.04]:

> Yeah, it's a rat's nest for sure but I've managed to fake it so far. Now 
> deep into theming beowulf which requires way too many late, late  nights 

Care to explain what this is? The Ascii theme is - ok - so what's to
change for Beowulf?
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Re: [DNG] My setup, and why I like it

[Harald Arnesen]

spiralofhope [24.11.2018 22:17]:

>> Drive encryption has advantages in terms of keeping secrets and 
>> foiling the evil-maid scenario.
> I always thought an evil maid could fiddle with the bootloader/etc or
> root to wholly compromise the system somewhat easily, and then it's
> just a matter of waiting for the user to use a key or passphrase.  It's
> two-step, but still straightforward.
> 
> Maybe there's another term for this variation?

Could you have /boot on a USB stick that you carry with you when not at
the computer?
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Re: [DNG] /usr to merge or not to merge... that is the question??

[Harald Arnesen]

Rick Moen [20/11/2018 20.04]:

> Since the gentleman seemed not to be familiar with make-kpkg in package
> kernel-package, perhaps he should start there.  (However, I believe it's
> now deprecated as of Debian stretch, and being replaced by newer
> automation tool deb-pkg, and coverage in The Debian Administrator's
> Handbook has now been updated to discuss that, instead.)

Why not just use "make deb-pkg" from the kernel source tree?
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Re: [DNG] /usr to merge or not to merge... that is the question??

[Harald Arnesen]

Alessandro Selli [11/17/18 1:48 PM]:
> 
> Il 16/11/18 23:44, Harald Arnesen ha scritto:
>> Irrwahn [11/16/18 9:10 PM]:
>>
>>> On System V Release 4 and later /bin has already been a symlink to 
>>> /usr/bin, and Solaris implemented the /usr merge about a decade ago.
>>> Effectively, only some Unices and some Linux based distributions are 
>>> the odd ones out in that respect.
>> And all the BSDs, macOS,...
> 
> 
>   You just reminded me one of the reasons because I do not run any of those.

Your reason for not running BSD is that is has separate /bin and /usr/bin?
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Re: [DNG] initramfs?

[Harald Arnesen]

Arnt Karlsen [11/17/18 12:58 AM]:

> On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 23:45:39 +0100, Harald wrote in message 
> :
> 
>> Hendrik Boom [11/16/18 7:08 PM]:
>> 
>> > (2) What is initramfs good for?  
>> 
>> Early loading of CPU microcode update.
> 
> 
> ..this is the only good reason for it?

Not the only good reason (encrypted LVM, etc), but it's the recommended
way to do it (see "Documentation/x86/microcode.txt" in the kernel sources).
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Re: [DNG] initramfs?

[Harald Arnesen]

Hendrik Boom [11/16/18 7:08 PM]:

> (2) What is initramfs good for?

Early loading of CPU microcode update.
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Re: [DNG] /usr to merge or not to merge... that is the question??

[Harald Arnesen]

Irrwahn [11/16/18 9:10 PM]:

> On System V Release 4 and later /bin has already been a symlink to 
> /usr/bin, and Solaris implemented the /usr merge about a decade ago.
> Effectively, only some Unices and some Linux based distributions are 
> the odd ones out in that respect.

And all the BSDs, macOS,...
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Re: [DNG] Excessive Bounces

[Harald Arnesen]

Linux O'Beardly [10/29/18 2:40 AM]:

> Is anyone else using a gmail account getting excessive bounce errors
> from the DNG mailing list? It keeps locking out my account.  I'm not
> having any issues with any of my other mailing lists.

Yes, same here.
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Re: [DNG] How to unarchive an .xz

[Harald Arnesen]

Adam Borowski [20/10/2018 22.54]:

> Anything else has been obsoleted and should be deprecated:
> * gzip is venerable and had seen so much use in the past that it won't ever
>   go away.  But you shouldn't use it: it's speed is same as xz at level 2.5
>   but compression ratio is drastically worse.
> * bzip2 is drastically slower (esp. at decompression) than xz and zstd; it
>   needs to die.
> * lzop had a good run but zstd is much stronger at same speed while lz4 is
>   much faster.
> * lzip is a worse alternative to xz, peddled by a couple of trolls that send
>   untruthful propaganda to projects, hoping people won't do research between
>   accepting its use.  Just say no and use xz.
> * ncompress is completely dead by now.
> * zip is used by Windows folks only, similar to gzip.
> * rar is unfree.
> * 7z is similar but incompatible to xz; also a container rather than a pure
>   compressor.

You forgot 'pack' :-)
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Re: [DNG] How to unarchive an .xz

[Harald Arnesen]

Steve Litt [20/10/2018 18.39]:

> I want to make a VM from devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_qemu.qcow2.xz
> 
> After 15 minutes googling and reading Devuan docs, I have nothing that
> works. How do I unarchive the file? Could you please put the method in
> the README file?

$ aptitude search xz
...
i   xz-utils- XZ-format compression utilities
...
$
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Re: [DNG] misc bugs

[Harald Arnesen]

william moss [2018-09-05 18:49]:

> The X display managers all have problems. I found wdm, which is
> basically a friendlier xdm, the only reliable one. lxdm also works
> (mostly). This problem was not present with the system board graphics
> (Intel) but appeared with an Nvidia GT750 chip set PCiE card.

To say something has a problem, without describing what the problem is,
is not very helpful.
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Re: [DNG] No spaces between menus in XFCE terminal.

[Harald Arnesen]

goli...@dyne.org [2018-08-31 19:10]:

> Use the default Clearlooks-Phenix-DarkPurpy theme.  Most other themes 
> cannot render the gtk3 properly.  xfce4 terminal looks great here.

Or AguaLemon, which looks much better (this is obviously a matter of taste).
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Re: [DNG] We can't stop wars and diseases yet, but we got rid of systemd

[Harald Arnesen]

Steve Litt [2018-08-16 17:27]:

> 1) At $14.50/month (Swiss Franc == $), it's 3 times the price of many
>American VM vendors.
> 
> 2) Unlike American vendors, their Terms of Service contain no
>Indemnification clause, no heads-I-win-tails-you-lose, no book
>length essays. This fact alone can triple the value of a VM.

3) I would rather have my not so sensitive data stored at a Swiss
company than at an American one.
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Re: [DNG] This is a losing battle, against the propaganda of redhat.

[Harald Arnesen]

Steve Litt [2018-07-26 18:44]:

> On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 18:00:45 +0200
> Basati  wrote:
> 
>> I would like to recall that RedHat is a company of the American
>> military complex. With close relations with civil intelligence and
>> the military of the United States
> 
> Damn Americans! Every one of them voted for Trump, owns ten
> semiautomatic rifles, owns stock in Red Hat, loves systemd, profits
> and enjoys his country's military complex.
> 
> Let's make a deal, you and I. I won't accuse your people of being
> separatist terrorists if you don't accuse mine of being
> Redhat loving militarists.
> 
> Anyone thinking of dissing a nation on this *technical* list should
> look long and hard at the deficiencies of his/her own country. Let he
> who is without sin cast the first stone.
> 
> Steve Litt
> Orlando, Florida, USA
> Campaigned and voted for Clinton in 2016
> As if that should be anyone's business but mine
> ___
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> Dng@lists.dyne.org
> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Well said! Americans are the worst and the best people in the world -
just like anyone else!
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Re: [DNG] I'm not going to respond to messages like that.

[Harald Arnesen]

Rick Moen [2018-07-26 19:38]:

> Quoting Basati (bas...@basatu.org):
> 
>> I think there should be a little more respect for Europe's greatest
>> cultural treasure.
> 
> I hope you understand that I was speaking in _exactly_ that spirit.  (In
> case it wasn't clear, the person of whom I was saying 'Someone is a bit
> provincial' was very much _not_ you, but rather the person who thought
> the term 'Azeri' could not legitimately exist in two languages at the
> same time.
> 
> If my intent of posting a friendly greeting including some warm bits of
> welcome in the Basque language was somehow unclear, I am sorry that
> happened, but that was the very opposite of my intention.

I, at least, had no difficulty in understanding what you meant. I think
it was a very respectful response on your part.
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Re: [DNG] who's tying up my port 80?

[Harald Arnesen]

Rowland Penny [2018-07-10 15:44]:
> On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 15:36:46 +0200
> Harald Arnesen  wrote:
> 
>> Rowland Penny [2018-07-10 14:37]:
>> 
>> > The problem is that it is probably easier to start anew rather than
>> > trying to update/maintain an existing project. You have to contact
>> > the existing maintainer (and you could have problems actually
>> > finding the maintainer), get their permission to update the package
>> > or fix bugs and then do what you wanted to do in the first place.
>> 
>> Get their permission? Aren't we using free software?
> 
> If you want to update a packages code, you need to get at it, otherwise
> it is called a fork, therefore you need the maintainers permission to
> change it.

If you can't get hold of the maintainer?
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Re: [DNG] who's tying up my port 80?

[Harald Arnesen]

Rowland Penny [2018-07-10 14:37]:

> The problem is that it is probably easier to start anew rather than
> trying to update/maintain an existing project. You have to contact the
> existing maintainer (and you could have problems actually finding the
> maintainer), get their permission to update the package or fix bugs
> and then do what you wanted to do in the first place.

Get their permission? Aren't we using free software?
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Re: [DNG] who's tying up my port 80?

[Harald Arnesen]

Rick Moen [2018-07-10 10:30]:

> Was there something that lead you to believe it had become illegal to
> use unmaintained code?  Otherwise, I find the basis of your question
> quite difficult to understand.

Don't be ridiculous. I just think it would be better to maintain the old
commands instead of writing something new and different.

Yes, I know I am free to maintain them myself.
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Re: [DNG] who's tying up my port 80?

[Harald Arnesen]

Rick Moen [2018-07-10 00:31]:

> Quoting Harald Arnesen (skog...@gmail.com):
> 
>> Why, oh why replace well-known, portable commands with Linux-only
>> commands that are no better?
> 
> At your convenience look up how many years the net-tools codebase has
> been orphaned.  Can't remember, but it's many.[1]   There is also
> functionality supported in the iproute2 tools but not in the net-tools 
> old-standard ones.

So if my main machine runs *BSD, I will have to use a totally different
set of commands on my Linux laptop?
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Re: [DNG] who's tying up my port 80?

[Harald Arnesen]

Rick Moen [2018-07-09 21:01]:

> 'netstat' in the 21st Century is spelled 'ss'.  ;->
> https://dougvitale.wordpress.com/2011/12/21/deprecated-linux-networking-commands-and-their-replacements/

Why, oh why replace well-known, portable commands with Linux-only
commands that are no better?
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Re: [DNG] Devuan ASCII 32bit images

[Harald Arnesen]

Antony Stone [2018-06-20 17:36]:

> No, I think Adam's point was that if you have a 686 kernel on a 386 machine, 
> replacing it for a 386 kernel is easy (relatively speaking), but if you have 
> the complete system binaries and libraries built for 686 on a 386 machine, 
> replacing that lot is basically a re-install.

80386 processors are no longer supported by the linux.org kernel
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Re: [DNG] More Sheiße on the way

[Harald Arnesen]

Alessandro Selli [2018-06-15 16:30]:

> "New Lazy FP State Restore Vulnerability Affects All Intel Core CPUs"

According to the DragonFlyBSD list, this doesn't affect Linux.
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Re: [DNG] devuan from scratch?

[Harald Arnesen]

Eric Pozharski [2018-06-15 11:55]:


> p.s.  Also.  For those ignorant out there.  The Linux-from-Scratch has
> gone The Dark Side.  Close that book.

Not really:

"In coordination with this release, a new version of LFS using the
systemd package is also being released. This package implements the
newer systemd style of system initialization and control and is
consistent with LFS in most packages."

So, it's a choice, just like with Gentoo.
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Re: [DNG] ..waaay OT: Is Void OK? Was: Keep it alive

[Harald Arnesen]

Arnt Karlsen [2018-05-21 12:27]:

> ..to prevent another such heinous scare, the aptly named 'Descendants 
> Of Quisling' (by the Israeli ambassador to Norway Raphael Schutz) has
> killed off FM radio: ...
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_audio_broadcasting#FM_radio_switch-off
> ...and civil defense amenities such as air raid alarm systems in this
> wonderful death trap called "Norway."

Can we get back to discussing Devuan?
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Re: [DNG] btrfs

[Harald Arnesen]

Martin Steigerwald [2018-02-21 16:26]:

> My short recommendation: Do not use BTRFS with Linux 3.10.

Or more likely, don't use 3.10 at all.

Support ended in November last year.
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Re: [DNG] Sakura: was ROXterm flickers in ascii

[Harald Arnesen]

Steve Litt [2018-01-04 08:01]:

> A Chrysler Town and Country minivan and a Dodge Charger cost
> approximately the same, and are both quality cars. I couldn't say which
> one is better. But what I *can* say is that if you have four kids and
> want to transport them in style, you get the Chrysler Town and Country.
> If you're single and want to impress members of the opposite sex, or
> you want to feel younger, or you want driving to be fun, you buy the
> Dodge Charger.
> 
> If you have one of each in your garage, you drive your kids around in
> style, and then at night go out on dates in style.

I don't drive, so I wouldn't know.
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Re: [DNG] Sakura: was ROXterm flickers in ascii

[Harald Arnesen]

Steve Litt [2018-01-03 22:32]:

> Yes. It's different from lxterminal, which is an advantage. IMHO, the
> more terminal emulator programs you have, the better. So:

Why, if they are all the same?
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Re: [DNG] Request file system reviews and recomendations.

[Harald Arnesen]

Den 2017-12-28 17:11, skrev Steve Litt:

> That's exactly my point. To do something better than my backup
> solution, I would have needed to go with something less tested, with
> less complete supporting software, and something I trust less than
> ext4. I haven't had ext4 mess up on me in at least 6 years. Even ext2
> and ext3 messed up very rarely, and you could usually fix them with an
> fsck.

I see what you mean, and I have never had a problem with ext4 either.
But I have used btrfs on all my main machines for the last years, and
have not had any (filesystem) problems with them either. I'd like to see
empirical evidence that ext4 is so much more stable than btrfs.
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Re: [DNG] Request file system reviews and recomendations.

[Harald Arnesen]

Den 2017-12-28 12:18, skrev KatolaZ:

> I lost several filesystems with buggy reiserfs versions, back in the
> days, and refused to use it ever again, basically because ext3 had
> become reliable and dependable in the meanwhile. Then Hans Raiser
> stopped its development, for other reasons... 

He stopped development of reiser3 long before what you refer to, and
reiser4 never made it to the kernel, for technical reasons as I recall.
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Re: [DNG] Request file system reviews and recomendations.

[Harald Arnesen]

Den 28.12.2017 01:51, skrev Steve Litt:

> The one downfall of my method is if you absolutely, positively need
> atomic backups: database files, for instance. You'd need to stop work
> on the computer being backed up. In the case of my Daily Driver
> Desktop, which contains 3,874,727 files, the entire backup takes about
> 5 minutes, the last 1.5 minutes of which is the cp -al phase, during
> which the computer being backed up can go an about its business.

Had you used btrfs instead, you could make a snapshot of your file system.
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Re: [DNG] Request file system reviews and recomendations.

[Harald Arnesen]

Den 27.12.2017 02:20, skrev Rick Moen:

> btrfs is still scarily beta after rather a lot of years of development.
> Its prospects have dimmed further now that Red Hat have dropped it from
> their roadmap.

That's your opinion.
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Re: [DNG] Interface names changed after eudev installation

[Harald Arnesen]

Steve Litt [2017-12-13 20:59]:

> Although this new namescheme is cheerleadered by systemd fanboiz
> FreeDesktop.Org, many sans-systemd distros have adopted the new device
> naming scheme. I've lived with it for a few years, and it's really not
> that terribly bad.

That's your opinion. I think it's terribly bad.
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Re: [DNG] Virtualbox?

[Harald Arnesen]

Fulano Diego Perez [2017-11-30 14:36]:

> $ cat /var/log/vbox-install.log
> Makefile:205: *** Error: unable to find the include directory for your
> current Linux kernel. Specify KERN_INCL= and run Make again.
> Stop.

Is "linux-source" installed?
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Re: [DNG] *ERROR* radeon kernel modesetting for R600 or later requires firmware-linux-nonfree.

[Harald Arnesen]

taii...@gmx.com [2017-11-11 04:44]:

> On 11/10/2017 06:21 PM, KatolaZ wrote:

>> Then replacing your video card might be the only option.

> Replace with what? I bought this one as wikipedia says there is a free 
> firmware option for it "radeon" - to me that means no blobs required but 
> I guess "they" changed the definition.

Does it really make the card more "free" if the binary blob is built-in
instead of being loaded at runtime?
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Re: [DNG] Upgrade to ascii not possible?

[Harald Arnesen]

Yevgeny Kosarzhevsky [2017-10-13 03:57]:

> You are right, it looks like mirrors aren't updated.
> When I replaced auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged/
>  with packages.devuan.org/devuan/
> , the upgrade has worked, however
> I've gotten 300+ orphaned packages.

I had
,
which was put in sources.list by the installer. When I changed that to
,
I got updates for init-system-helpers and rsyslog.

So it seems there is (at least was) a bug in the ascii installer.
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Re: [DNG] Upgrade to ascii not possible?

[Harald Arnesen]

Antony Stone [2017-10-12 18:11]:

> So, you're only seeing 1.46+devuan1.0
> 
 On 12 October 2017 at 21:01, Svante Signell wrote:
> On Thu, 2017-10-12 at 08:47 -0400, fsmithred wrote:
>> 1.46+devuan1.0 0
>> 100 http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ ascii/main amd64 Packages
> The latest version is really 1.48+devuan2.0 as of today.
> Which is confirmed from
> https://packages.devuan.org/devuan/pool/main/i/init-system-helpers/
> 
> So, it beats me why you're not seeing that version available :(

I have exactly the same problem.
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Re: [DNG] systemd-udevd: renamed network interface eth0 to eth1

[Harald Arnesen]

J. Fahrner [2017-10-06 18:52]:

> That's a perfect example why renaming devices (to make them "stable") is 
> not a good idea. Most consumer devices have not more than one ethernet 
> card and one wireless card. So naming was already "stable". The new 
> logic makes them unstable when you have to change devices on repair. But 
> that's typical "behaviour" of systemd devs. :-(

I totally agree!
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Re: [DNG] serial and ps2 ports.

[Harald Arnesen]

info at smallinnovations dot nl [2017-08-27 22:25]:

> I can admit that: a friend of mine cannot part of his original IBM AT 
> keyboard. So it has a converter from big DIN to PS2 to usb to connect it 
> to his PC without PS2 ports.

I can understand that, they have a great "feel". However, they need more
power than most USB ports (or maybe converters) can supply, so they
won't work in many cases.

Personally, I prefer the Norwegian Tandberg keyboards, with a PS/2 to
USB converter.
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Re: [DNG] devuan ascii - how much of systemd is still in there? UPDATE

[Harald Arnesen]

Den 26/08/2017 18:41, skrev Hendrik Boom:

> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 10:36:16AM +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote:
>> There is a betwitched command, tar, that can be used to create
>> archives of any directory. So, the obvious action to me is, make a
>> tar.gz archive before deleting any system directory. That way, you
>> will be empowered with recovery in the ill fated event of breakage. In
>> the event of boot failure you can use the backup (.tar.gz) file to
>> repair the damage restoring bootability.
> 
> Assuming, of course, that you have some other way of booting the 
> machine so you can still run commands to restore the files.

You always have a live dvd/usbstick to boot from.
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Re: [DNG] devuan ascii - how much of systemd is still in there? UPDATE

[Harald Arnesen]

Edward Bartolo [2017-08-26 10:36]:

> So, this is again an advice that should be obvious for anyone, bold
> enough to delete parts of the file system, that can result in system
> breakage.
> 
> There is a betwitched command, tar, that can be used to create
> archives of any directory. So, the obvious action to me is, make a
> tar.gz archive before deleting any system directory. That way, you
> will be empowered with recovery in the ill fated event of breakage. In
> the event of boot failure you can use the backup (.tar.gz) file to
> repair the damage restoring bootability.

Or simply rename the directories instead of deleting them. If everything
works after a boot, delete the directories then.
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Re: [DNG] An alternative to renaming [was Re: Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames]

[Harald Arnesen]

Rick Moen [2017-08-23 23:32]:
> Quoting Harald Arnesen (har...@skogtun.org):
> 
>> >> Manual Xorg configuration is so tedious, time consuming and error
>> >> prone that requiring users to be capable of it is just crazy.
>> > Au contraire:  Even if you had nothing besides Xorg (or previously
>> > XFree86) itself, in almost all cases you could just do 'Xorg -configure
>> >> /etc/X11/Xorg.conf' and nothing else.  However, pretty nearly all
>> > distributions provided even-easier X configurator tools.
>> 
>> When? Not when I started using Linux.
> 
> At the very latest by RHL7, which was released in 1994.  Red Hat's
> easy/GUI X configuration tool was called Xconfigurator.[1]  I vaguely
> recall that SUSE and Debian, among many others, had various other ones
> with a variety of names.

Red Hat 7 was released in 2000, according to Wikipedia.

I remember using Red Hat 3.0.3 in 1996 and 4.2 (the last using libc5)
for a time in 1997-98. They had an X configuration tool that didn't work
for me.

They also shipped the Metro-X server, which also didn't work on my machine.
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Re: [DNG] fvwm

[Harald Arnesen]

Steve Litt [2017-08-23 18:03]:

> You just said it in the first sentence of the preceding paragraph: Why
> not substitute the phrase "grapical environment" for "session"? If
> "graphical environment" isn't perfect, it's a hell of a lot better than
> either "session", "window manager" or "desktop environment".

OK, maybe I had a flash of insight :-)

I like the phrase when you point it out.
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Re: [DNG] fvwm

[Harald Arnesen]

Steve Litt [2017-08-23 18:00]:

>> "Window Manager" would be the best, I think. I agree that "Session"
>> can be misleading. How many users would know what you mean by
>> "GOSFUI", a not at all intuitive and far too long abbreviation almost
>> never used outside of this mailing list?

> Then we should think of a better word to represent the union of window
> managers and desktop environments. I don't have Not Invented Here
> syndrome: I'd be glad to support and publicize such a word.

And how many people will understand yet anotner word?

"Session" is the accepted word, like it or not. I would prefer "Desktop
manager", but I don't think that will happen.
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Re: [DNG] An alternative to renaming [was Re: Proposed change in behaviour for ascii: eudev net.ifnames]

[Harald Arnesen]

Rick Moen [2017-08-23 19:06]:
> Quoting Alessandro Selli (alessandrose...@linux.com):
> 
>>   Not having to login as root to manually configure Xorg just to change
>> video card or monitor was one of the best and most wanted improvements in
>> Linux in the past 10 years.
> I'm sure, but on the other hand, how often did that happen?  Extremely
> seldom.

Always.

>> Manual Xorg configuration is so tedious, time consuming and error
>> prone that requiring users to be capable of it is just crazy.
> Au contraire:  Even if you had nothing besides Xorg (or previously
> XFree86) itself, in almost all cases you could just do 'Xorg -configure
>> /etc/X11/Xorg.conf' and nothing else.  However, pretty nearly all
> distributions provided even-easier X configurator tools.

When? Not when I started using Linux.
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Re: [DNG] fvwm

[Harald Arnesen]

Steve Litt [2017-08-22 23:59]:

> As far as #1, what the hell does "session" mean? A session is something
> that runs for awhile, and usually the implication is it's already
> running. I think the word "session" needs to be changed to "GOSFUI". If
> you'd rather not use a word directly created to handle the exact
> concept, you could substitute "window manager or desktop environment".

"Window Manager" would be the best, I think. I agree that "Session" can
be misleading. How many users would know what you mean by "GOSFUI", a
not at all intuitive and far too long abbreviation almost never used
outside of this mailing list?
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Re: [DNG] Which desktops are available in Devuan?

[Harald Arnesen]

Rick Moen [2017-08-17 00:55]:

> So, here's a point:  If you have a Linux system with Thunar (graphical
> file manager) and the xfwm4 window manager, I'm betting that those _are_
> 99% of what you think of as 'XFCE4'.  

Not quite.

> I'm betting that you don't actually have a specific desire and need
> (also) for xfdashboard, Xftasklets, Xfce4 Screenshooter, Xfce4
> Dictionary, Xfburn, Ristretto, XFCE Terminal, Parole media player,
> Midori Web browser, Eatmonkey download manager,
> notification-daemon-xfce, the Xfce4 Volstatus system tray notification
> icon, Xfce4 Power Manager, Gigolo GIO/GVfs front-end, a couple of dozen
> Xfce4 panel plugins, and around a dozen Thunar plugins,  You might not
> even be totally in love with the Xfce4 panel, _or_ even (gasp!) prefer a
> different panel not normally bundled as part of the XFCE4 metapackage.

I use several of these.

> _Or_ you might prefer, as many XFCE4 users do, the window manager named
> 'awesome' rather than xfwm4.

No, not me. Tried it, didn't like it much.

> And if you started out with less than the entire marching band of those
> things (which with artwork and bindings are the ensemble known as
> 'XFCE4') and at any point you decided you wanted any of them or all of
> them, you can trivially add those with a single apt-get command.
> 
> So, why do you need to start with the whole marching band?  And,
> moreover, install a 'task' metapackage whose presence requires
> installation, at all times, of all of the constituent packages
> thereafter.

If I install the whole of XFCE4, I only have to remember the names of a
couple of other packages to get the screen to look the way I want.

> 'A la carte' is not a swear word, you know.  But somehow, most of an
> entire generation of Linux newcomers have been conned into thinking it
> is.  My point is merely that I think this tunnel-vision is unfortunate.

You have several good points, and I may try some of your ideas, but it
all comes down to choice. I think the reason I prefer a simple,
ready-made desktop is that it's one of the least important things on my
computer. I have other things to fiddle with, so I want the user
interface to "just work" - and for me, XFCE4 does.
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Re: [DNG] Which desktops are available in Devuan?

[Harald Arnesen]

Rick Moen [2017-08-16 19:34]:

> The part you didn't address is where a DE is even helpful for this.
> It's not.
> 
> You've argued for a novice-friendly assemblage of good grapical 
> applications (in such use-cases), not for a DE.
> 
> In any event, your concern appears irrelevant to the original querent,
> who appears not to be such a user.

From a not quite novice:

I started with Slackware in 1993, have used Linux more or less
exclusively (for my private work) since then. In the beginning with
FVWM2, later with IceWM, now with XFCE4, which increased productivity a
lot for me.

I will not use a desktop without what you call a Desktop Environment -
and XFCE4 is the only one that I've tried (Gnome, KDE, LXDE, CDE,
Enlightenment) which I can massage to be both user-friendly and somewhat
estetically pleasing.
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Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

[Harald Arnesen]

Adam Borowski [2017-07-23 12:57]:

>> > I run 32-bit Devuan on one Core2 machine. Why? I can't get Xerox'
>> > proprietary printer driver for their Phaser 6010N color laser to work on
>> > 64-bit. Several receipes on how to do this, none of them work.

> Printer drivers work in userspace, not in kernel.  64-bit x86 kernels can
> run i386 binaries just fine -- usually better than a 32-bit kernel would,
> as there's no mucking with inadequate address space.

Yes, I can probably run a 64-bit kernel on this machine, and still have
an exclusively 32-bit userspace.

> And on De??an, there's multiarch so you can mix-and-match binaries.
> I don't know much about printing (I don't own a printer nor have a reason
> to use one more than once per ~2 years), but AFAIK printer drivers are
> separate processes so there's no ABI problem whatsoever.

In theory, yes. I have tried just that, and it didn't work. I will try
again tomorrow, when I see this printer again.
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Re: [DNG] [Desktop-Environment] Cinnamon and MATE

[Harald Arnesen]

Adam Borowski [2017-07-23 00:01]:

> What I'm talking about is running i386 on 64-bit-capable CPUs.  You can
> check that by ｢grep '^flags.*\bnx\b' /proc/cpuinfo｣ or checking the op-mode
> field in what lscpu says.
> 
> There's a long list of reasons why that's a bad idea, especially when kernel
> is concerned; the only reason to the contrary is some memory saving in
> pointer-heavy code.  32-bit code also sees almost no upstream testing
> (at least on x86).
> 
> If the machine has >2GB ram, running a 32-bit kernel should be a crime.

I run 32-bit Devuan on one Core2 machine. Why? I can't get Xerox'
proprietary printer driver for their Phaser 6010N color laser to work on
64-bit. Several receipes on how to do this, none of them work.

Yes, I know I shouldn't buy printers for which there are no open
drivers, but no, I didn't buy this printer. I got it for free, along
with several toner cartridges. I'd rather use them up before I buy
another printer.
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Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

[Harald Arnesen]

Rick Moen [2017-06-28 20:33]:

> Temporary files in /tmp are sometimes a little sensitive and sometimes
> greatly so.  (It's usually a tmpfs on my systems.)  Operational paranoia
> suggests keeping it at least cleaned up frequently, if you're going to
> bother to have /home as a dmcrypt filesystem.  That's where tmpfs is
> actually helpful in the sense that erasure means a file from there is
> truly gone.

/home/.tmp
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Re: [DNG] some ASCII issues

[Harald Arnesen]

Didier Kryn [2017-06-28 19:38]:

>  I don't see any reason to encrypt /usr. You might like to encrypt 
> /etc because it contains user names and (already encrypted) passwords. 
> But definitely there is no reason to encrypt everything.

But if you encrypt anything at all, isn't it easier to encrypt everything?
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Re: [DNG] Xfce4 task uninstalled on upgrade to ascii

[Harald Arnesen]

KatolaZ [2017-06-15 11:35]:

> the unmet dependency there might not be tasksel (which is a virtual
> package) rather a chain of deps which goes down to dbus. Since an
> updated version of dbus is now available in ascii's repos, you should
> be able to dist-upgrade to ascii (we will come back to tasksel as
> well, in due course). 

This upgrade has fixed the xfce4 uninstallation problem.
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Re: [DNG] Raspi3 RC2 NOT working

[Harald Arnesen]

Arnt Karlsen [2017-05-14 23:14]:

> On Sun, 14 May 2017 22:51:33 +0200, Harald wrote in message 
> <5918c355.9020...@skogtun.org>:
> 
>> Antonio Trkdz.tab [2017-05-14 22:12]:
>> 
>> > I have tried twice to dd the RC2 raspi3 image on a sd card, but I
>> > ended up with a non responsive login prompt.
>> > Also the ethernet is screwed, effectively rendering the system
>> > unusable.
>> 
>> I can confirm this. Seems the keyboard doesn't work at all.
>> 
>> > RC1 is fine.
>> 
>> Haven't tried it, will do.
> 
> ..are you guys able to chroot into RC2, e.g. from RC1?
> 

Dont't know. I never had Alpine on this box before.

Unfortunately I won't have time to try for a couple of weeks, going on
holiday.
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Re: [DNG] Raspi3 RC2 NOT working

[Harald Arnesen]

Antonio Trkdz.tab [2017-05-14 22:12]:

> I have tried twice to dd the RC2 raspi3 image on a sd card, but I ended
> up with a non responsive login prompt.
> Also the ethernet is screwed, effectively rendering the system unusable.

I can confirm this. Seems the keyboard doesn't work at all.

> RC1 is fine.

Haven't tried it, will do.
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Re: [DNG] reportbug default bts

[Harald Arnesen]

Steve Litt [2017-05-13 17:03]:

> I never dist-upgrade. From what I hear, it breaks things. If I feel the
> need to dist-upgrade, it's probably time to back up, reformat the
> disks, and clean-install a later version.

If you can't dist-upgrade, it's probably time to find another distribution.
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Re: [DNG] FF pulseaudio hard dependency is here

[Harald Arnesen]

Andrew McGlashan [03/11/2017 06:15 PM]:

> Oh and Mozilla has been trying to offload Thunderbird too, but TB is my
> best choice for email.

Check out FossaMail, by the PaleMoon developers.
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Re: [DNG] The Internet Wifi Daemon

[Harald Arnesen]

Hendrik Boom [2017-01-18 16:20]:

> I this ssomethnig we should be aware of?  It seems someone is in the
> process of replacing wpa_supplicant and a lot of the tools above it
> with new software, IWD, the Internet Wifi Daemon.
> 
> https://www.linux.com/news/event/elce/2017/new-linux-wifi-daemon-streamlines-networking-stack

As I understand it, this is just for Linux, while wpa_supplicant works
on the BSDs as well. If a cross-platform solution exists, I would rather
have that.
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Re: [DNG] Devuan-ascii: Upgrading runit to 2.1.2-5 can hose your system

[Harald Arnesen]

Steve Litt [2016-08-12 19:47]:

> I don't understand. Do you perhaps mean that sysvinit is PID1, and you
> use runit strictly as a process supervisor? The reason I ask this is,
> whatever acts as PID1 is what boots the kernel.

No. The kernel starts PID1.
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Re: [DNG] How to acknowledge ported version of Open Source program?

[Harald Arnesen]

Den 08.06.2016 12.58, skrev Jack L. Frost:

On Wed, Jun 08, 2016 at 02:22:29PM +0900, Simon Walter wrote:

Since Chung's new version is written in Python, wouldn't it be considered a
different piece of software? I don't think a re-write in another language of
something licensed under the MIT license can even be considered a
derivative, much less a copy.


Yeah, I was going to say that too: a rewrite in another language is a
completely new piece of software and I've see things like that being licensed
under a different license dozens of times. Hell, full rewrites in the same
language are often licensed differently with no problems. A full rewrite is
just that — a different implementation, especially if it's in a different
language as well.


Consider f2c, p2c, early C++-compilers which translated to C, 
Intercal-to-C,... All these rewrite a program in another language, but 
it is relally the same implementation.

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Re: [DNG] Never again

[Harald Arnesen]

Steve Litt [2016-05-12 22:29]:
> Hi all,
> 
> The last several years, with Debian, Lubuntu, Void, and Devuan Alpha, I
> installed from either a tiny ISO or a network install ISO. Yesterday
> and today, while installing from the Devuan DVD ISO, I was reminded why
> I always did this.
> 
> I started this install last night, and it's still not finished. I've
> installed Gentoo and Funtoo faster. The whole time, whenever the VM
> hosted install wasn't waiting for input from me, it was taking over 90%
> of one of my cores, and slowing my machine's progress.
> 
> If this thing isn't finished within 2 hours, I'm going to wipe my VM
> clean and start over with a network install. And I'm never going to
> install from a full ISO again.

Strange. I installed Devuan from the beta version in a virtual machine
yeserday, less than one hour.
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Re: [DNG] Devuan Jessie - beta release announcement

[Harald Arnesen]

Veteran Unix Admins [2016-04-29 13:32]:

> Debian GNU+Linux is a fork of Debian without systemd, on its way to
  ^^
> become much more than that. This Beta release marks an important
> milestone towards the sustainability and the continuation of Devuan as
> an universal base distribution.
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Re: [DNG] state of what's working for modern desktop usage

[Harald Arnesen]

Steve Litt [2016-02-09 17:24]:

> I use wpa_gui every time I take one of my laptops on the road, and I
> get it to work, but I wouldn't call its functionality "working fine."
> First of all, its human interface is ridiculous. Instead of conversing
> with the human at human level and translating for wpa_supplicant, it
> converses with wpa_supplicant at wpa_supplicant level and makes the
> human translate. The thing where you have to go to another tab, press
> scan, press scan again, doubleclick, remember the number of the new
> network, go back to the first tab, select it, and wait for your IP
> address (or not) is ridiculous.

Maybe so with Linux (I use wicd with my Linux laptops), but it works out
of the box with PC-BSD.
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Re: [DNG] Bad UEFI: was Systemd at work: rm -rf EFI

[Harald Arnesen]

Steve Litt [2016-02-02 22:39]:

> Chefs know what they're doing, but they still have fire extinguishers
> with which to put out any fires. When the downside is severe enough,
> safety measures are called for regardless of the skill of the operator.

Amen!
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Re: [DNG] netman: adding adequate help

[Harald Arnesen]

Edward Bartolo [2016-01-11 10:33]:

> 1) Should I add a manpage so that 'man netman' works?

Most definitely yes. All programs should have a manpage, at least to
show where documentation can be found.
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Re: [DNG] Debianising my uploaded version of netman.

[Harald Arnesen]

Edward Bartolo [2015-12-11 19:26]:

> I think, it is irritating to first having to scroll down text others
> have written rather than the text the latest poster has written. If
> the latest poster wants his readers to refer to ealier posts, he can
> state that in his reply.
> 
> I don't consider this netiquitte, but rather, a writing style which
> shouldn't be binding to anyone. This should be optional like any
> personal preference.

  Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
  > Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
  >> Top-posting.
  >>> What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
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Re: [DNG] Quick start guide to uprading to Devuan and configuring minimalism

[Harald Arnesen]

Steve Litt [2015-11-04 15:37]:

> Now of course, if I'm troubleshooting a system serving hotel
> reservations to millions of people, I'd reboot only as the very last
> resort. I'd build a parallel system and exploit the differences or
> similarities rather than rebooting. But if it's my own desktop or a
> server that's already down for repair, often rebooting decreases
> Mean Time To Repair.

In such a case you wouldn't upgrade the system at all, unless there were
known insecurities.
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Re: [Dng] straw poll, non-free firmware for installers

[Harald Arnesen]

James Powell [2015-06-04 02:57]:

 Firmware is part of the kernel in a sense because it is loaded by the
 kernel at boot. It only interacts with the kernel and the kernel modules
 to provide any missing functionality, like a header file does, except
 rather than C code, it's prebuilt binary language code.
 
 It is not technically software because it doesn't act through an API,
 shell interpreter, user interface, or execution medium.

And another point, most devices that do not require loading firmware
from disk _already_ has non-free firmware on-board, in an eprom chip or
similar.
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Re: [Dng] Which package generates /lib/systemd and /etc/systemd files?

[Harald Arnesen]

Noel Torres [2015-05-05 18:52]:

 As a resume: If you want a systemd-free system, Devuan is your  
 distribution, and will always be.

At the moment, it is either Trios or Funtoo or Slackware, right? Or some
limited distro like Alpine (which I run on my netbook).
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Re: [Dng] systemd free badge

[Harald Arnesen]

Joel Roth [2015-02-21 10:46]:

 Brainstorming here, I'm thinking about Coke Classic.  So,
 what are the classical (or traditional) things we are
 preserving by excising systemd?
 
 Classical Unix Architecture 
 Classical Unix Administration
 Classical Unix Services
 Classical Unix Security
 
 Classical/traditional AASS means you don't need to hire
 special consultants, just competent Unix
 developers/administrators.
 
 Cheers,

A bit unrelated,  we have a good beer here in Norway called Aass
Classic. Aass from Drammen is our oldest remaining brewery (1834).
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