Re: [DNG] Openrc

[emninger]

Am Mon, 12 Sep 2016 08:31:54 +
schrieb Jaromil :

> not at all. We even plan to roll out our own openrc package, ditching
> the one from Debian which has many problems. Perhaps what you are
> hitting is one of them.
> 
> 
> For Devuan's Openrc we will follow the design proposed by upstream and
> Gentoo's, the maintainer volunteering for this is Parazyd (also on
> this list) who works with us at Dyne.org. We will also use Openrc in
> our projects and are advocating for it as the next new standard in
> Devuan ascii, at the condition of a 100% smooth transition from
> sysvinit.
> 
> At last, we haven't done anything on the OpenRC package yet so your
> problems are entirely caused by the Debian maintainership, which can't
> be trusted at all, IMHO

Thanks a lot Jaromil for the info. 

It's not - by chance ;) - i could
pickup from somewhere a beta of the OpenRC package you're working on?

I hate the idea to redo several scripts (i - painfully ;) adapted from
Gentoo to the previous deb version to make them work with the debian
crippeled openrc) to make them goable for sysvinit.

In any case, me for one (simple user!), i like a lot the idea to use the
original gentoo style openrc - and i like openrc for its ease to use.

Cheers!
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Re: [DNG] Openrc

[emninger]

Am Sun, 11 Sep 2016 18:09:56 +0200
schrieb Svante Signell :

> Maybe you have to install sys-rc before installing openrc?

I looked and i have already installed sysv-rc. In any case, i did a
re-install but it did not help.

Does that mean openrc as an option for devuan is gone?
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Re: [DNG] Openrc

[emninger]

Am Sun, 11 Sep 2016 18:09:56 +0200
schrieb Svante Signell :

> On Sun, 2016-09-11 at 17:44 +0200, emnin...@riseup.net wrote:
> > I was away from the keyboard a very long time (had to work
> > outside/outdoor for a life), so very likely i missed a lot. Sorry in
> > anticipation if i'm doubling something:
> > 
> > One system is/was running devuan ascii quite nicely but when i came
> > back i did an 'apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade' and i
> > realize(d), that openrc (which i was used to use) was removed. When
> > i try to reinstall openrc, i see that nearly the complete system
> > would be
> > removed   
> 
> Which version did you have/are you trying to install?
> From the 0.21-2 debian changelog:
> openrc (0.21-2) unstable; urgency=medium
> 
>   * Move Recommends init-system-helpers to Pre-Depend (Closes:
> 829488).
>   * Drop Provides sysv-rc.
>   * Install transit into /etc/init.d directly.
> 
> Maybe you have to install sys-rc before installing openrc?

The version is 0.21-2.

Do you mean sysv-rc or sys-rc indeed?

Thanks a lot!
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[DNG] Openrc

[emninger]

I was away from the keyboard a very long time (had to work
outside/outdoor for a life), so very likely i missed a lot. Sorry in
anticipation if i'm doubling something:

One system is/was running devuan ascii quite nicely but when i came
back i did an 'apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade' and i
realize(d), that openrc (which i was used to use) was removed. When i
try to reinstall openrc, i see that nearly the complete system would be
removed 

alsa-firmware-loaders bluetooth bluez bumblebee ceni clamav
clamav-daemon clamav-freshclam clamav-milter clamav-unofficial-sigs
clamsmtp clamtk cups cups-browsed cups-core-drivers cups-daemon
gnumeric gnumeric-plugins-extra hplip init initramfs-tools
initramfs-tools-core initscripts inxi kodi kodi-bin kodi-data
linux-image-4.6-4.dmz.2-liquorix-amd64 linux-image-4.6.0-1-amd64
linux-image-4.7.0-3.1-liquorix-amd64 primus printer-driver-gutenprint
printer-driver-hpcups printer-driver-postscript-hp printer-driver-splix
procps sane-utils sysv-rc sysvinit sysvinit-core task-print-server udev
virtualbox virtualbox-ext-pack virtualbox-guest-x11 virtualbox-qt xorg
xserver-xorg xserver-xorg-core xserver-xorg-input-all
xserver-xorg-input-evdev xserver-xorg-input-libinput
xserver-xorg-input-mouse xserver-xorg-input-synaptics
xserver-xorg-input-vmmouse xserver-xorg-video-all
xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu xserver-xorg-video-ati
xserver-xorg-video-cirrus xserver-xorg-video-fbdev
xserver-xorg-video-intel xserver-xorg-video-mach64
xserver-xorg-video-mga xserver-xorg-video-neomagic
xserver-xorg-video-nouveau xserver-xorg-video-openchrome
xserver-xorg-video-r128 xserver-xorg-video-radeon
xserver-xorg-video-savage xserver-xorg-video-sisusb
xserver-xorg-video-tdfx xserver-xorg-video-trident
xserver-xorg-video-vesa xserver-xorg-video-vmware Die folgenden NEUEN
Pakete werden installiert: libeinfo1 librc1 makedev openrc WARNUNG: Die
folgenden essentiellen Pakete werden entfernt. Dies sollte NICHT
geschehen, außer Sie wissen genau, was Sie tun! init sysvinit-core
(wegen init)
---

BTW, this is the same with the option --no-install-recommends

When i installed openrc time ago, installation was smooth and i did not
have any of this problems. Did devuan became incompatible with openrc
in the meantime?

A small, side problem, i will have to solve in the next future: My
zram-init script does not work anymore. May be it's why i installed it
under openrc?

Anyway, any pointer will be highly welcome!

Thanks a lot in advance!
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Re: [DNG] Gtk-theme for Devuan

[emninger]

Am Sun, 24 Jul 2016 12:00:02 +
schrieb aitor_czr :

> However, the circle control buttons can be customized :) They are 
> located in gtk-3.0/assets:
> 
> titlebutton.png
> titlebut...@2.png
> titlebutton-close-prelight.png
> titlebutton-close-preli...@2.png
> etc...

Yes, sure. But where are these buttons used. I looked a bit around, but
i do not see them. The title bar is configured, in my case, by JWM (and
ceteris paribus in the relative flux- or openbox themes; i agree with
you, that adapt them is a second step).

For the title bar buttons i have a "buttons" theme whereto my jwm theme
points (coloured square buttons: white = hide, blue = max, lila =
maxactive red = close; may be i will adapt, for the dark theme, the
really nice buttons, the now outdated pekwm theme of manjaro used (?)).
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Re: [DNG] Gtk-theme for Devuan

[emninger]

Am Sat, 23 Jul 2016 19:32:34 +
schrieb Go Linux :

> Vertex messes with the size and spacing on the panel icons too.  And
> the white inactive titlebar is just too gtk3ish for my taste. It
> blends with the white BG on pages so I have a hard time finding where
> the apps are on the page.  I also see macish circle control buttons
> on the pdf reader. UGH! And the PDF reader slider is about 1/8 inch
> wide.  That's got to be a gtk3 "improvement".  There is also some
> blue around check-box choices.  And I just noticed that the input bar
> on xchat is now dark green 

As far as i see, i do not have those problems with vertex (but i use
vertex-dark!). May be that's due to the fact, i use JWM (?). For
sure, Vertex has problems with gtk3 but as far as i see they are less
than others (Clearlook for example!)

I do not find Xchat, but in Hexchat, my input line is dark, with white
foreground (fonts) - as i would expect it, using a dark theme.
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Re: [DNG] Gtk-theme for Devuan

[emninger]

Am Sun, 24 Jul 2016 05:14:43 +
schrieb Go Linux :

Hi golinux!

> There may be a way to fix those things in the theme but that would
> take drilling down deep into the code.  If/when I finally get around
> to that I'll start from the original themes to make sure the errors
> weren't introduced with your individual theming.

That would be great since you for sure are much more capable than me.
And it would be great to have a useable theme which deals at least in
some way in a reasonable way with the gtk3 problems.

The Clearlooks-Phènix-purpy, frankly, is nearly unuseable when it comes
to have to deal with gtk3 programs. I do not know about xfce or lxde
since i do not use that kind of DE.

Thanks a lot in advance!
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Re: [DNG] Open-RC on devuan - some questions

[emninger]

@Jaromil, parazyd

From a previous question i posted about openrc, i got an answer by
jaromil, that there is underway an openrc package for ascii (which
would respect the gentoo style of implementation).

Now, my question: Is there a, may be even experimental package,
already? I'd be happy to use (and try out) that :)

TIA
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Re: [DNG] Earth-friendly micro-desktop Devuan demo

[emninger]

Am Sat, 23 Jul 2016 19:32:34 +
schrieb Jaromil :

> yes is another occasion for rejoicing for all of us :^) and I find
> this a very interesting point since most systemd arguments talk about
> "booting times" but here is really about "login times".

Well, but that boot-up speed reasoning nowadays, seems somehow outdated
anyway: It's a matter of fact, that the manjaro openrc editions (of the
same flavour) boot faster than the systemd flavours. ;)
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Re: [DNG] Gtk-theme for Devuan

[emninger]

Am Sat, 23 Jul 2016 19:32:34 +
schrieb :

> I'm comparing OSX-Breeze, GTX and Vertex.
> 
> IMO, Vertex is best.
> 
>Aitor.
> 

+1

If you're interested. i adapted vertex dark, as far as i could, to the
devuan style guidelines. If you'd like, i could pass it to you.
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Re: [DNG] Wirth's law

[emninger]

Am Wed, 20 Jul 2016 22:40:11 +
schrieb Steve Litt :

Hi Steve!

> I just found out about Wirth's Law:
>
> [ . . . ]
>
> * Look at all the money in my bank account. I'd better start spending.
> [ . . . ]

I remember this theory/law already mentioned in the eighties in a
genius Apple II GS discussion group. But anyway ... it's nice :) :)

But i disagree on your money metaphor: Living in the times we're living
i'd say "carpe diem" (= spend your money now and best for what you need
and don't give it to the banks) might be indeed the better advice.

If the times get harder we could try to elevate goats and tomatoes ;)

Sorry for the digression.

Cheers!
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Re: [DNG] F1 and special usernames on the login screen

[emninger]

Am Tue, 19 Jul 2016 22:06:11 +
schrieb Jaromil :

> but then one really needs to be pro-active about it here. So: if
> anyone wants a DM that is not packaged, even before asking for it
> should do an effort at its packaging.

lxdm is there already (in ascii but not jessie). I tried to do a
configuration in line with the devuan style guidelines (for the moment,
i think it's ok, from this point of view)
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Re: [DNG] F1 and special usernames on the login screen

[emninger]

Am Tue, 19 Jul 2016 19:57:35 +
schrieb Joel Roth :

> emnin...@riseup.net wrote:
> > And as i said before, lxdm is nearly equally leightweight as slim
> > and as far as i see not really systemd infected - yet (?).  
> 
> Why do you like using a display manager rather than login
> and startx? 

Esthetics? Coherence with the DE? ;) 

Essentially, you're right ...
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Re: [DNG] F1 and special usernames on the login screen

[emninger]

Am Tue, 19 Jul 2016 17:38:16 +
schrieb Robert Storey :

> About SLIM as a display manager - I'm fine with it, even if it's not
> really maintained. The important thing is that it's fast, stable, not
> riddled with security holes (including systemd). I'm open though to
> changing to something better, if there is something better.

When i installed jessie - on another machine with big overheating
problems (amd cpu & graphics) slim never ever worked, only console
login and startx. irrwahn helped me out (he even made a bugreport
somewhere) and in the end lxdm was the login manager which worked.
After that experience i sticked with it also installing later on ascii
on a less problematic machine.

And as i said before, lxdm is nearly equally leightweight as slim and
as far as i see not really systemd infected - yet (?).
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Re: [DNG] Open-RC on devuan - some questions

[emninger]

Am Tue, 19 Jul 2016 16:22:41 +
schrieb Steve Litt :

> The older I get, the more I think the easiest route is to use
> wpa_passphrase, then, as root, append its output
> into /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf. Crude but effective.
> Travelling wifi on laptops is a mess, always has been.

I agree, essentially. networkmanager seems a no go to me because of its
indentation with systemd (?); wicd is somehow better but far from
ideal, imho.

I'd like to encourage you to try out, may be just for a moment, ceni
(which thanks to ozi is in our repositories now). Unfortunately it
relays on ifupdown (therefore strictly debian/devuan). You'd need to
use a machine of your wife ;) - but: do it. I think it's a great and
very simple tool.

Cheers.
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Re: [DNG] Open-RC on devuan - some questions

[emninger]

Am Tue, 19 Jul 2016 16:22:41 +
schrieb Rob Owens :

> You got me interested and I just installed OpenRC on Devuan Jessie.
> I got the following message:
> 
> **
> *** WARNING: if you are replacing sysv-rc by OpenRC, then you must ***
> *** reboot immediately using the following command:***
> for file in /etc/rc0.d/K*; do s=`basename $(readlink "$file")` ;
> /etc/init.d/$s stop; done
> *** once rebooted, you could safely backup and remove /etc/rc?.d   ***
> **
> 
> Did you follow those instructions?

Yes!

> I see I have no /etc/conf.d.  To me this means I really do not have
> OpenRC, as conf.d is one of the key benefits of OpenRC in my opinion.

Exactly, that's what i meant ... ;) :-(

I'm happy someone else sees my situation and it's not my stupidity :)
But, may be you saw the msg of jaromil that there is in the sink a
completely redone devuan package of openrc - which would make me happy.

Cheers.
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Re: [DNG] Open-RC on devuan - some questions

[emninger]

Am Tue, 19 Jul 2016 02:43:59 +
schrieb Steve Litt :

Hi Steve!

> The "wrapper around sysvinit" thing is a feature of OpenRC, not
> Devuan/Debian's implementation thereof. A little more explanation...
> 
> [ . . . ]

Thanks for your patience! It's in some way a bit above my knowledge,
but the essentials i think i got. My excuses in advance anyway ;)

But let me say this: *FROM A USER POINT OF VIEW* OpenRC is easier, the
config scripts in /etc/conf.d are way simpler than those of sysvinit.
May be you remember, i also tried Void but, may be due to my linuxwise
incompetence, i found it not so easy to configure and sometimes (for
the wpasupplicant/dhcpcd thing) confusing.

Anyway, from theory, a suckless init as pid1 + openrc might be a slick
combo (?).

As for the respawn problem: I'm not sure, but i think OpenRC gives the
possibility to mark/flag/config certain daemons and/or processes to be
respawned. That might be better than doing that by default ... (?)

E.g., i would not like to have privoxy respawned automatically in case
something with its configurations does not work. But anyway ... I saw
you're hanging around from time to time in the manjaro-openrc group. I
think you might ask to artoo, which seems to be a quite smart openrc
wizzard. 

And btw, in manjaro-openrc the scripts are configured as /bin/bash (or
sh? - for sure not as /bin/openrc; which is sometimes a problem when
you use directly a gentoo script: you have to think of this changement).
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Re: [DNG] Open-RC on devuan - some questions

[emninger]

Am Mon, 18 Jul 2016 18:30:07 +
schrieb Jaromil :

Hi Jaromil!

> this is precisely what Parazyd has recommended to do, while looking
> into the plan to make a openrc package on ascii. we also have contact
> with genoo maintainers and good understanding of their approach.
> 
> from what I've seen so far, i think you can expect devuan ascii to
> have a proper (a'la gentoo) openrc setup offering flawless switch and
> even run in parallel.
> 
> We want to avoid overlapping openrc scripts with sysvinit
> scripts. This is the major reason to dismiss the dialogue with current
> maintainer in Debian and deciding to scratch that package entirely.

That's fantastic news. Please let me know, when and if this package is
available. Even if only in a testing circle, i'd be well willed to try
out (and eventually to help testing, if i can be useful ... (?) ).

Cheers!

PS. I know, Steve Litt does not like so much OpenRC, but me, for one and
as a simple user, i like it specifically from a user point of view
because it's so "linear" to use. 
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[DNG] Open-RC on devuan - some questions

[emninger]

Hi!

On the road to a viable jwm desktop in devuan, i am using/trying
open-rc. In advance, my excuses if what follows is not sufficiently
technical.

To the point: From Manjaro-OpenRC i knew openrc as a clean and logical
system to manage daemons & processes. By far, from a user point of
view, superior to sysvinit. Now, the transition from sysvinit to openrc
in devuan is mostly painless. BUT: I'm under the impression in
devuan/debian openrc works only as a kind of wrapper around sysvinit. 

An example: I installed a zram script (still when i had sysvinit as
init manager). Now, this script is configured to openrc in this way:

"rc-update add zram boot" (which adds the zram daemon to the boot level
to have it ready early; could be added also to default). Now, when i
remove it by "rc-update del zram boot" it is not even more present for
openrc - but nevertheless, it is still started at any reboot. For me,
that means, openrc is *NOT* the real init manager - at least in its
debian implementation.

It would be nice to have openrc implemented as it is in gentoo or
manjaro: with the to essential directories:

/etc/conf.d (where all the scripts for openrc are configured)
/etc/init.d (where the scripts that are configured in /etc/conf.d sit)

May be in that way, it would be also easier to use the existing scripts
in gentoo and arch/manjaro (maintained by artoo).

I ask here, because i know here are some competent openrc coders.

Thanks in advance for any pointer!
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Re: [DNG] Need for documentation (Steve Litt)

[emninger]

Am Sat, 16 Jul 2016 14:30:36 +
schrieb Steve Litt :

> I'd prefer a display manager that isn't associated with a window
> manager or desktop environment.

I understand that and i would agree, but in my experience with devuan
here, lxdm was the loginmanager which worked better (lightdm is an
euphemism, i'd say, it is all but light). lxdm is really light, even
not heavy compared to slim (which is lighter but not that much). I liked
slim from my crunchbang experience but i'm afraid it is in somehow
outdated - since it is not maintained since a while (have a look at the
arch wiki about). (1)

Just a, may be naive, question: shouldn't it be possible to free lxdm
completely of any dependence of lxde? As far as i see lxde-common and
desktop-base are suggestions, not needed. For what we may be afraid, the
dependency of libdbus might be a problem ... (?)

---

1) If i'd be more talented linuxwise, i'd offer myself to create a nice
configuration of wdm.
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Re: [DNG] Slow network startup [was: Systemd discussion on the Samba mailing list]

[emninger]

Am Sat, 16 Jul 2016 08:40:14 +
schrieb Go Linux :

> My Devuan wired network takes maybe 10-15 seconds to come up after I
> come out of suspend.  What's up with that.  It was always ready on
> Squeeze and Wheezy.  Now I twiddle my thumbs and wait until wicd
> wakes up. It's really annoying . . . 

May be you can try to set up your network with ceni (which is in the
repositories). It deals fine with ifupdown. IME, the network if
configured by ceni, is always up just when the computer wakes up.

Otherwise, if i recall correctly, you can fiddle with the wicd settings
to make it use ifupdown ...
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Re: [DNG] Need for documentation (Steve Litt)

[emninger]

Am Fri, 15 Jul 2016 04:43:40 +
schrieb Robert Storey :

> Thanks for posting this, it's an issue I wanted to raise but glad
> someone else brought it up first.

I'd like to propose the use of lxdm (as a graphical login manager).
It's only insignificantly heavvier than slim but it offers all the
options cleanly you're looking for.

Cheers.
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Re: [DNG] systemd==bad

[emninger]

Hi Arnt!

Am Mon, 11 Jul 2016 19:07:56 +
schrieb Arnt Karlsen <a...@iaksess.no>:

> > 
> > I don't use Slackware because their package manager won't figure out
> > dependencies for me, causing me to need 10x the time to install some
> > things (and I install a lot of stuff --- did I ever mention I write
> > books for a living?).  
> 
> ..so which do you prefer, Slackware wee mess, 
> or being at the mercy of Poettering & Co?
> 
> > On the other hand, a lot of people I respect (including emninger)
> > love Slackware specifically because it leaves figuring dependencies
> > to the user, leading to a relatively dependency-lean environment.  
> 
> ..aye, means you will have to do a _predictable_ wee bit more.
> 
> ..can we (Devuan) lean on Slackware and alien conversion, 
> at least as a backup plan B to the potential Debian trap?
> 

Recently, i followed, as a silent lurker, a - german - dispute on
systemd, where frequently intervened Martin Vaeth, who is - IMHO - a
very reasonable person (author of several open-rc scripts for Gentoo.
In my poor - and non technical -words, he sustained, that, considering
the tendency of the systemd people to engulf more and more
essential/critical processes of the basic boot-up of linux, in a near
future only a distro like gentoo would have a chance to survive, since
its process of building (emerge) allows, to avoid the systemd
jabbawagga [1]. When i read that, i thought, the same should go for
slackware - in the linux ecosystem (given that they resist to the
systemd temptation, which seems to be the case ... (?)



1] I remember a novel of H. P. Lovecraft where there is a monster,
which, once it'll be awaken it would engulf all the world. I believe to
remember its name was jabbawagga, but it's only a vague memory ... ;)
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Re: [DNG] Dng Digest, Vol 22, Issue 30

[emninger]

Am Mon, 11 Jul 2016 19:07:56 +
schrieb dng-requ...@lists.dyne.org:

> [ . . . ]
> did I ever mention I write books for a living?
> [ . . . ]

Me too ;) But, sincerely, mostly, i translate(d) ... (aside of
guiding) Now, as a pensionist, i do a bit what i want :)

Sincerely, as for slackware, i understand your point. But, on the other
hand, it enlarges a bit your (at least: mine) understanding of linux.
The only negative point, for me, is the really slow development. I can
imagine the reasons, and i respect them, since it's really a rock solid
distribution.

It's a point of interest to me: I do not have really a clear idea
about, but, seems to me, the init system slackware uses is a bit
different of sysvinit (at least how it's implemented in debian/devuan).
Or am i wrong?

As far as i remember, the init scripts seemed clearer to me (those of
slackware i mean) ... (?)
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[DNG] problem with devuan merged repositories

[emninger]

When i do `apt-get update` i get the following error msgs:


Err:12 http://de.mirror.devuan.org/merged ascii InRelease
  Temporary failure resolving 'de.mirror.devuan.org'
Err:13 http://de.mirror.devuan.org/merged ascii-security
InRelease Temporary failure resolving 'de.mirror.devuan.org'
Err:14 http://de.mirror.devuan.org/merged ascii-updates
InRelease Temporary failure resolving 'de.mirror.devuan.org'
Err:15 http://packages.devuan.org/merged ascii
InRelease Temporary failure resolving 'packages.devuan.org'
Fetched 3020 B in 7s (423
B/s) Reading package lists... Done
W: Failed to fetch
http://de.mirror.devuan.org/merged/dists/ascii/InRelease  Temporary
failure resolving 'de.mirror.devuan.org' W: Failed to fetch
http://de.mirror.devuan.org/merged/dists/ascii-security/InRelease
Temporary failure resolving 'de.mirror.devuan.org' W: Failed to fetch
http://de.mirror.devuan.org/merged/dists/ascii-updates/InRelease
Temporary failure resolving 'de.mirror.devuan.org' W: Failed to fetch
http://packages.devuan.org/merged/dists/ascii/InRelease  Temporary
failure resolving 'packages.devuan.org' W: Some index files failed to
download. They have been ignored, or old ones used instead.


Thanks in advance for any pointer!
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Re: [DNG] systemd==bad

[emninger]

Am Sun, 10 Jul 2016 08:47:57 +
schrieb Joel Roth :

> What's your experience with slackware and its
> dependency/packaging system?

Generally, i like it. It has way less dependencies compared to debian.
And in the end it's quite well manageable. Only, it's really so slow as
for developping ... But keep in mind, i'm speaking from a user's point
of view, not the admin's one ;)

I pointed out the new version, because i was happy to see, that
slackware apparently won't go systemd. You, know, in the past there
were rumours about slackware to go systemd too - and some quoted, that,
if at all, Volkerding would be able to implement a somehow "sane"
systemd. Since they quoted explicitely in the infos about the new
release to be *systemd-free* i think/hope, for the moment and the
next future that's no longer an option they are reflecting.
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Re: [DNG] lilo

[emninger]

Am Sat, 09 Jul 2016 21:14:42 +
schrieb Joel Roth :

> To me it's an important part of linux infrastructure. 
> (Has anyone investigated if syslinux/extlinux can offer the same
> functionality?)

Me too, i prefer lilo (so used to from years with slackware ;) ) - and
i don't find it inferior to grub but easier to configure (may be grub
has some advantage for multiple different os?).

As for syslinux/extlinux i know it pretty well because tinycorelinux
uses it as default bootloader: I think the functionality is more or
less the same, but it's said to be buggy (which i cannot judge but
would be a knockout criterium - for a bootloader).

Cheers.
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Re: [DNG] systemd==bad

[emninger]

Am Sat, 09 Jul 2016 08:54:31 +
schrieb Steve Litt :

> No seriously, a lot of developers aren't jumping on the bandwagon.
> Witness Samba retaining their --without-systemd compile flag. Observe
> Funtoo and Void both saying "systemd never!" Alpine forgot to switch
> to systemd, as did quite a few others.

I'd like to underline the recent slackware release (14.2) explicitely
is systemd free.
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Re: [DNG] systemd==bad

[emninger]

Am Thu, 07 Jul 2016 12:00:02 +
schrieb  Steve Litt :

Hi Steve!

> The whole systemd thing is one big propaganda war. It's not about
> tech. Saying systemd is about tech is like saying a Molotov Cocktail
> is about building construction.
> 
> Anyway, this video is one of the best weapons our side has in the
> propaganda war.

After having read lots of pages about systemd and the controverse
debate about, i (as a non-technical person) tend to think, that systemd
is not bad, but fully functional:

Only, it's not an init system, or better: it's not in the first place
an init system but a funnel to fill into the RedHat channels as much as
possible of the man power and intelligence of the linux comunity. If
they want or not, if systemd becomes un-avoidable they will (have
to) work for RedHat, and they will do that "for free" (as the hooligan
esults in the end of the video). No way out ...

I cannot judge if that will happen effectively, but seems clear to me
the strategy (and the debian responsibles effectively were dull enough
to do what a famous german writer expressed: "Nur die dümmsten Kälber,
wählen ihre Schlächter selber" - something like: Only the most stupid
calves go to the butcher voluntarily).

Cheers.
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Re: [DNG] systemd==bad

[emninger]

Am Tue, 05 Jul 2016 10:21:29 +
schrieb dng-requ...@lists.dyne.org:

> On 20.02.2016 01:02, aitor_czr wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > Did you watch the following video?
> > 
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfKGXQnxIvE=PLV5TRjrpiwATav0Dlhd_GRjc2ZRuV26kR
> >   
> 
> yeah, that incident of Lennart's hate speech is pretty well known
> (at least over here in Germany).
> 
> actually, I already used that to convince some of my clients of
> dropping lennartware ...

I didn't realize this: It's heart breaking :-( . 

An arrogant asshole (sorry, hey, but i do not know another term) with a
bottle of beer in his hand and backed up by the power of his
emplyoing company tries to ruin a speech he does not like. And in
the end, cinically claims the free code. Like saying to someone who
critices big finance: Why don't you drive your own bank, you're free
to do so.

I'd have wished to the guy from the university of Munich a bit more
agressivity against the hooligan. Misguided intelligence always
produces stupid results or worse.

Cheers.
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Re: [DNG] Azadi, or: the art of civil-isation

[emninger]

Am Tue, 05 Jul 2016 10:21:29 +
schrieb Didier Kryn :

>  I hope the reasons for Sdexit (Systemd Exit) are more educated
> than the ones for the Brexit. Not defending the Leave or the Remain
> here. One may approve one vote or the other while not the reasons
> invoked by the voters.

+1

Thanks Didier!
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[DNG] 2 pcmanfm questions

[emninger]

1)
What will be the difference between

`dbus-launch pcmanfm -d`

and

`pcmanfm -d` ?

(I remember, there was an issue with thunar not mounting automatically
usb devices, which could be solved using the dbus-launch command).

2)
Is anyone aware of a way how to make pcmanfm use udevil?

(I tried spacefm but unfortunately it is way way less straight in
dealing with freedesktop definitions: There are no equivalents (at
least no easy ones, i found some hacks, but ... ) to the commands
`pacmanfm menu://applications/`, `pcmanfm computer:///` and `pcmanfm
Trash:///` ).

Thanks a lot in advance for any pointer.
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Re: [DNG] inittab question

[emninger]

Am Mon, 04 Jul 2016 12:00:01 +
schrieb KatolaZ :

> uh? Why would have you expected that? First of all, you normally don't
> want getty in runlevel 1, which is used for single-user mode.

Because i knew that to be such from slackware (which also has
single mode user runlevel = 1 ) ... ;)

> Second, even if you insist in having getty in runlevel 1, why have 6
> of them if that runlevel is normally used only for rescue-related
> tasks? Third, the number of ttys active in each runlevel is not a
> gospel line but a configurable option. Fourth, the configuration of
> virtual consoles would have nothing to do with any problem with your
> (graphical?) login manager, so you are probably looking into the
> wrong file.

I looked into it, because the loginmanagers failed if i did not set them
specifically to VT1 (which for me was possible only with lxdm). Ok, i'm
not really linux knowledged so, i thought there might be something
wrong (eventually due to the complicated installation i had) when i
compared it to my previous slackware setup. 

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[DNG] inittab question

[emninger]

Hi!

Dealing with a login (manager) problem, i looked into my /etc/inittab
and i found this:

---
# Note that on most Debian systems tty7 is used by the X Window System,
# so if you want to add more getty's go ahead but skip tty7 if you run
X. #
1:2345:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty1
2:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty2
3:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty3
4:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty4
5:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty5
6:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty6
---

Is that correct?

I'd have expected any line to be:

---
1:12345:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty1
2:12345:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty2
...
---

Thanks in advance for any pointer!
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Re: [DNG] polkit - which one?

[emninger]

Am Sun, 03 Jul 2016 12:00:01 +
schrieb Didier Kryn :

> [ . . . ]
>  Since Enrico suggested to patch (eg) Thunar it makes little
> sense to modify it to invoke a wrapper rather than udevil right away.
> This was the message of my previous mail.

Thanks for clarifying Didier! :)
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Re: [DNG] polkit - which one?

[emninger]

Am Sat, 02 Jul 2016 07:42:37 +
schrieb Didier Kryn :

Salut!

>  OK checked my wraper works with udevil. But if it comes to
S> patch 
> Thunar, Xfce4 and others, why not invoke directly udevil or sudo? The 
> wrapper was only meant to replace pkexec. udevil seems pretty handy.

So, do i get you right, that you (can) use udevil with thunar? And if
so, it would work also with pcmanfm, presumeably ... (?)

I'm asking because i realize, spacefm is even a bit more limited for
full desktop management than pcmanfm ...
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Re: [DNG] policykit - another time ...

[emninger]

Am Fri, 01 Jul 2016 00:45:23 +
schrieb Daniel Reurich :

> policykit is something we'd like to get rid of, but it is deeply
> embedded in places so it's likely that rather then get rid of it we'd
> need to provide an  alternative implementation.
> 
> That said, I haven't looked closely at those packages to see if their
> is a build time option to disable building against it, or whether
> what it attempts to do is in anyway useful to us.

Hi Daniel!

Thanks for your patience and the explanations. I think i see ... ;) The
question came up, when i tried to "purify" my system a little bit
(upower for example, i could purge without any problem, as far as i can
tell). So, i'll wait ...

But, generally for the future and manpower allowing it, it might be a
nice idea to give to the user the option to either install binary
packages or tarballs where you could configure options (a bit like in
slackware or with the pacli wrapper around pacman). May be that's
possible with apt as well, but at least to me it's not that
obvious ... ???

Cheers.
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[DNG] policykit - another time ...

[emninger]

When i try to purge policykit-1 (which apparently is a devuan patched
version (?): 0.105-9+devuan1 ) i'm prompted the following packages
would be removed:


aptdaemon* colord* hplip* packagekit* packagekit-tools* policykit-1*
printer-driver-postscript-hp* 0 updated, 0 installed , 7 to remove,
0 to update.
Purg aptdaemon [1.1.1+bzr982-1] Purg colord [1.2.1-1+devuan1]
Purg printer-driver-postscript-hp [3.16.5+repack0-1]
Purg hplip [3.16.5+repack0-1]
Purg packagekit-tools [1.1.1-1]
Purg packagekit [1.1.1-1]
Purg policykit-1 [0.105-9+devuan1]


So, aptdaemon depends on policykit and hplip and all the other printer
driver stuff as well?

Me, as a simple user, i'm clueless ... Even more, since i was told by
people i trust in and who seem to be well informed, that policykit from
a security point of view should be avoided (???)

Thanks in advance for any pointer!


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Re: [DNG] Find files... disabled in PCmanFM

[emninger]

Am Wed, 29 Jun 2016 11:14:41 +
schrieb aitor_czr :

> Hi all,
> 
> For people using PCmanFM: in the menu of this file-manager there is a 
> file search (Tools -> Find files...), what i find lacking in Thunar.
> 
> Well...,  sometimes this tool is greyed out (for example, in gnuinos 
> openbox). In that case, you can enable it installing the package 
> *libfm-modules*.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
>Aitor.

Thanks! 

But, from a practical user's point of view, i'd prefer catfish
anyway as the filemanager's search tool. Catfish can easily be
configured to work "internally" as a right click tool in pcmanfm,
spacefm and thunar - as far as i know (but i'd suspect that's true for
other filemanagers as well). IME, catfish is the better file find tool!
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[DNG] some fun

[emninger]

Since we're so serious may be some fun is nice, making life
easier ... :) I stumbled upon this by chance and i liked it a lot (I
post the link although i think probably many of you know it already):

http://systemd-free.org/img/systemd-can.jpg

Cheers.
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Re: [DNG] polkit - which one?

[emninger]

Am Sat, 25 Jun 2016 12:00:02 +
schrieb Didier Kryn :

Salut Didier!

>  Unfortunately, without policykit, the users are not allowed
> to mount removable media like usb memory sticks. Few years ago the 
> permissions were handled in udev rules, but nowadays udev rules have 
> shrinked to one rule in 70-persistent-net.rules.

Interesting. 

As for mounting without udev, i know there is spacefm
which does it using its own mounting routine called udevil. Ok, it's
not Thunar, but for all desktops using pcmanfm spacefm would be a nearly
1:1 substitute, if not even an improvement ... ;)

Cheers.
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Re: [DNG] tool to check for updates without root??

[emninger]

Am Wed, 22 Jun 2016 08:35:48 +
schrieb KatolaZ :

Hi KatolaZ!

> The easiest way is to have a cron script that runs once a day, with
> root provileges, and calls "apt-get update". Then, your notifier could
> be as simple as:
> 
>  apt-get -s upgrade | grep "^[0-9]* upgr" | cut -d " " -f 1
> 
> which will give the number of packages that would be upgraded, and
> does not require root. But remember: the check should be performed
> only once every "apt-get update", because the result does not change
> if you don't update the list of available packages.

Thanks for your pointer. So, essentially, there is no way to play
around the need of root. 

You're line is cool :)

Cheers.
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[DNG] tool to check for updates without root??

[emninger]

May someone of you knows if their exists in the .deb world a tool which
checks for available updates and which does not need root.

What i am looking for, is just a simple "update available" notifier
(with other package managers that's possible, but i do not see a way to
do that with apt or aptitude).

Thanks a lot in advance!
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[DNG] package request

[emninger]

Hi!

Is there any possibility to package for devuan xdgmenumaker (1) (2)?

It's a rocksolid and very nice menumaker which makes for *ANY* *boxes
based desktop a xdgcompliant menu (which especially in debian
with its awful menu system is badly needed).



1) https://github.com/gapan/xdgmenumaker
2) gapan is one of the maintainers of Salix (a slackware based distro)
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Re: [DNG] polkit - which one?

[emninger]

Am Sat, 18 Jun 2016 08:49:39 +
schrieb Didier Kryn :

Salut Didier!

>  I have created two launcher files invoking /sbin/halt and 
> /sbin/reboot, with sensible icons, and then dragged them into the 
> pannels of all 4 users of the desktop. And I have added the following 
> line to the sudoers file:
> 
> ALLmyhostname = (root) NOPASSWD: /sbin/halt, /sbin/reboot, 
> /sbin/shutdown

i've pretty much the same (only i use a pre-fabricated tool, cb-exit, a
logout tool of which once was done for crunchbang, a python script btw).

I set the line in sudoers like yours, yes: i used visudo! ;), but still
it does not work: shutdown, reboot, halt still require root with a
password. I am the only user on this machine

Reflecting on it: should there be created a group whereto user should
be added or somethin thatlike. In any case, user is added to the group
sudo.
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Re: [DNG] About OpenRC with Devuan (jaromil/parazyd)

[emninger]

Am Sat, 18 Jun 2016 17:32:49 +
schrieb "Ismael L. Donis Garcia" :

Hi Ismael!

> I have not looked openerp version in debian, but should be well
> behind using Manjaro, that could also influence since Manjaro version
> should be much more current.

i don't think so; i ran a very old manjaro openrc iso (2-3 years, the
first fluxbox openrc they made) and there the appearance is the same
like now (more or less).

I suspect rather, there is something in the settings of the debian
version which on one hand makes smooth the transition (which indeed
works surprisingly well) but on the other hand compromises something of
openrc's "linearity" (if you can call it that way(?) ).

But unfortunately, i am not the person able to really check that :-( So
i hoped in some explication of the "gurus" ;)

Cheers.
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Re: [DNG] package request (ceni network management utility)

[emninger]

As for package requests i have a question:

Is it acceptable to make proposals or would feel innecesserily stressed?

(I'd like to have several small tools, which are available on git but
not in the repositories, having in mind to put together the stuff for a
jwm desktop as an option in tasksel. One point is the awfull debian
menu and how to play around that. There is a very nice tool on git,
xdgmenumaker, which does a perfect menu for all *boxes).
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Re: [DNG] package request (ceni network management utility)

[emninger]

Am Sun, 19 Jun 2016 09:17:26 +1000
schrieb Ozi Traveller <ozitravel...@gmail.com>:

Hi Ozi!

> Hi emninger
> 
> I have ceni_2015.07.06+nmu1_all.deb installed in devuan stable.
> 
> Ozi

That's great, thankyou very much. May be you can put it also to ascii?

As for this, just a question: On one machine i have running devuan
ascii/ceres. Is it a good idea to have there also the devuan jessie
repositories, or not?

(On another one, a kind of amd based ultrabook, i run jessie, because
the catalyst driver is not compatible with the latest xorg; from time
to time i activate ascii only to get newer kernels ;) ).
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[DNG] package request (ceni network management utility)

[emninger]

I would like to have ceni in the devuan packages. Ceni can be found
here (the amd_64 version):
http://packages.siduction.org/?Repositories:extra_amd64

In the practical use, i think it's a robust and very easy to use
ncurses based tool. It's advantage is, once it is set up (practically
it uses wpasupplicant and ifupdown) it provides that a once set
connection comes up very early on boot, so that many (desktop) apps
which presume a connection, they have it already.

Also wicd does this, but it's later and slower in bringing up the
connection.

May be someone more skilled can have a look at it and judge, if it's
worth the pain.

Btw, ceni does also roam.

Cheers.
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[DNG] still zram

[emninger]

Sometime ago i asked here about zram - and got good advice. On one
laptop i have it running and all is fine. But on this unfortunate Sony
i have problems:

When i tried to install zram as on the other machine i discovered that
zram module is not enabled at all:


zgrep ZRAM /proc/config.gz
gzip: /proc/config.gz: No such file or directory


The result is the same with the 3.16 kernel (which is my old kernel)
and with the 4.6 kernel. How that? Und what can i do to enable that
module?
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[DNG] a debian vs devuan problem

[emninger]

By chance i discovered a kind of a compatibility problem:

Since i'm still struggling with my setup (kernel modules are missing,
machine tends to get very hot etc. pp.) i wanted to checkup which
graphic driver would be the best and i installed and tried to run
nvidia-detect - which gave me the following error:

Checking card:  NVIDIA Corporation GF108M [GeForce GT 540M] (rev a1)

grep: /etc/debian_version: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden
Uh oh. Failed to identify your Debian suite.

The script needs the Debian version to propose the correct driver, but
there is not such debian_version in etc.

Shouldn't devuan, as long as it uses in some way the debian
repositories, provide also the corrisponding debian_version file?
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[DNG] polkit - which one?

[emninger]

Thanks to my installation hassle i had an a bit close look to some
installed modules. So i saw, that with the basic install + X (i did not
install any specific desktop, but only with the --no-install-recommends
option: xorg, jwm, menu, lxdm) is already pulled in the gnome-polkit.

I do not know, if a polkit is absolutely needed, but if so, wouldn't
the lxpolkit be preferable (because smaller)?
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[DNG] avahi & dbus ? Was: Re: cosmetic installer issues

[emninger]

Am Thu, 16 Jun 2016 06:28:16 +
schrieb Adam Borowski :

> avahi -> die die die

In the slackware world i learned, that avahi was not needed and could
be removed (respectively not installed at all) without any problem. And
indeed it was so for me, i did not notice any loss in confort ... (in
some way compareable to pulseaudio as an overlay over alsa).

Someone here (Jaromil?) mentioned that also dbus could be removed. So
my question: Is that correct? (In manjaro-openrc i saw, they make a
lot of use of dbus though, eg. using it as a launcher for pcmanfm -d)

Thanks for your patience.
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Re: [DNG] Installer Devuan Jessie 1.0 fails

[emninger]

Am Thu, 16 Jun 2016 06:28:16 +
schrieb Robert Storey :

> I'm not a good programmer and thus not capable of writing a better
> installer, but I would like to suggest the possibility of taking the
> Ubuntu approach which allows the option to complete an installation
> with no network connection, using files on the CD as the base. Then,
> an update/upgrade after rebooting.

It is the same for me. I'm a simple user and all i'm able to do is, may
be, put together some script lines ;)

I find the ubuntu installer is "overdone" - but the idea, that the
basic system and utils are loaded from the installer iso (and not from
the net, exception made for an explicite netinstaller, whose goal is to
stay as small as possible) is good.

I, for one would prefer, an as simple as possible installer. One
example out of the debian world might be those of siduction (html
based).

Outside of the debian universe, i was astonished by the ease of the
manjaro installation routines and isos.

In this moment, i'm a bit happier (although still a bit angry about all
the time i spent invane to get Devuan to that damned Sony Vaio) since
seems i'll have a running Devuan Ascii on it now.

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Re: [DNG] Installer Devuan Jessie 1.0 fails

[emninger]

Am Thu, 16 Jun 2016 06:28:16 +
schrieb KatolaZ :

Hi KatolaZ!

> This is most probably the source of your problems. Have you tried to
> install jessie and then upgrade to ascii? 
> 
> My2Cents
> 
> KatolaZ

Yes, i did - to no extent.

Now, in a lot of frustration, i tried the simple (*NOT EXPERT*!)
installation mode (since i discovered it gives me too the option to
format manually the hd) installer - and curiously it goes through. It
fails then on tasksel with whatever desktop i choose. Only with
printserver & basic systemutils it goes through. I did that, used then
the rescue mode (which gives me the wireless connection) to install
lilo, xorg  

Then, i changed sources.list to ascii and upgraded. Keeping the
fingers crossed, it seems to work now (??!!)

Let me say this: A big ThankYou to you all for your patience. I'm well
aware i am a simple and often ingenuous user, but without your
friendly help and your patience, since a long i throw away devuan into
the spam and went elsewhere where there is no systemd.
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Re: [DNG] Installer Devuan Jessie 1.0 fails

[emninger]

Am Wed, 15 Jun 2016 21:21:08 +
schrieb dev :

> I did a text mode install with Devuan amd64 DVD.iso over the weekend.
> In a virt-manager instance no less. Everything worked fine. Maybe
> give text mode install a try and see if results are better.

No, here it's in all expert "modes" the same. I remember that i also
had failures installing to qemu or to Virtualbox, but there mostly
after tasksel - so, using the rescue mode of the installer iso i could
play around.

In virtual only the simple mode (which installs jessie and as a
bootloader does not offer lilo (IIRC - but not sure on this point) went
through.

Now, on that machine i absolutely want to keep the existing /home
partition (so expert mode is needed).

I think i'll try a refracta iso; may that will work (hopefully ;) ).
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Re: [DNG] Installer Devuan Jessie 1.0 fails

[emninger]

Am Wed, 15 Jun 2016 16:21:11 +
schrieb Robert Storey :

> Yes, I think that this IS important to fix. Even though I was able to
> work around the problem, there are many others out there who will
> give up at the first sign of trouble and head straight back to the
> comfort of Poettering Linux.

Frankly, considering the ease of installation, i already thought i
could go back the manjaro openrc installation i had before (which got
corrupted by some qemu experiments) and run devuan only in virtualbox
(but that's not really a good idea when you try to put together a
desktop for devuan - imho).

As for the installer: i remember the siduction people (who
unfortunately went full speed toward systemd :-( ) they had a nice
simple installing routine which is based on html. It was very simple,
but clear and self explaining, IIRC ...

In any case, although the installation is not easy to build, it should
not create trouble.

One good point in the devuan/debian installer (and i didn't remember
that from former times) is the automatic setup of the network. Years
ago you needed absolutely the hardwired connection to the router, now
the wireless setup works flawlessly.
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Re: [DNG] Installer Devuan Jessie 1.0 fails

[emninger]

Since we discussed in irc also about the installer problems (i have,
but others, at least partly share) i thought it might be a good idea to
describe exactly what i did and tried:

I use the installer cd 

I used both, graphical and text mode installer, so far no difference.

I chose several language layouts (precisely, de_utf8.de, fr_utf8.de,
it_utf8.it), defined keyboard as de, loaded all components from the
installer cd, formatted the hd manually, fresh formatting the sda1 ext4
as / with boot flag enabled, keeping sda4 as ext4 /home (to keep my
home from a previous crashed installation).

Network automatically configured via wireless (router inhouse)

I point to ascii

root with passwd, & user 

Then installing the base system i'm prompted with an error, which is
always the same:

error processing rsyslog (--configure)
dependency problems

rsyslog depends on libjson-c2 (>= 0.10); however:
 Package libjson-c2 is not installed

So far for the error.

Since i did succeed installing devuan on another machine (with terrible
overheating problems though) with amd graphics, may be it's worth to
note that the machine where i'm unable to install devuan is:

Sony-Vaio Core 7, nvidia graphics, 16 gig ram, 750 gig hd

(The netinst.iso fails equally).



I could install from the same iso, with some problems also, to qemu and
virtualbox running on a manjaro openrc linux. 

I could install devuan using the instructions of devlfanboy for a
minimal install on github - but trying to add more software and a
desktop, i ran into big, unsolvible problems at least for me ("fsck
exited with code 8" - during the boot; googling for that error results,
that might be a systemd related problem - which i believed to not be
able to deal with).

That's it from my side. Sorry for being unprecise, but i'm not so linux
skilled.

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Re: [DNG] Installer Devuan Jessie 1.0 fails

[emninger]

Am Wed, 15 Jun 2016 01:26:45 +
schrieb :

> i Florian! I tried it that way but it did not work. I was prompted by
> the msg that libjson-c2 does not exist. May be it's provided by
> another package but i did not succeed in finding it out :-(
> 
> In the meantime, i tried another way: The instructions of devlfanboy
> on th git for a minimal installation. That went thru fine, but
> unfortunately, there seems to be something left of the old &
> completely corrupted installation that was on that disk before (a
> rest of grub). 
> 
> In the end i made it by lilo -M /dev/sda mbr.
> 
> But now there is another problem: Seems there are lost all the shadow
> passwords, both, for root and user. Is there a way to re-establish
> them? Please keep in mind, i'm a simple user, eh ... ;)
> 
> Thanks in any case for your patience.

In the end i gave up.

It was possible, and even easy to delete the root password, then i
could log in, use startx etc. Also adduser to add a normal user with
user-id 1000.

But then, booting i always get an error on fsck

'fsck exited with error code 8'

With Ctrl-D i could continue to boot, but the / volume was in read only
mode. By 

'mount -o remount,rw /dev/sda3 /'

i could get it back into read-write mode. But it's only for one session
the fsck error is back on any boot.

But, searching the web for the error code of fsck i saw it seems
something systemd related which needs patches here and there and i
decided to give up. It's already nearly 2 days i'm fighting with this
problem, and enough is enough.

Someone knows about a clean and simple way to install devuan?
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Re: [DNG] Installer Devuan Jessie 1.0 fails

[emninger]

Am Wed, 15 Jun 2016 01:26:45 +
schrieb Robert Storey :

Hi Robert!

> Note that my following comments apply only to a graphical install,
> full-desktop version, which is actually the only kind I've attempted
> so I can't say what would happen with a minimal install in
> text-mode...
> 
> I've gotten this error on EVERY install I've done with Devuan, both
> laptop and desktop computer. However, recovery from the error was
> fairly straightforward, just go back to the screen to install the
> basic system, run it again (note: do not exit the installer!).
> Sometimes the error will still recur, but just keep going back and
> run it again, it will succeed. I believe what's happening is that the
> installer is downloading most of the files it needs but fails to
> download some, so by re-running it goes back and gets the rest of the
> files, it does not start from the very beginning and re-download
> everything. As to why it fails go get those files on the first run, I
> can't say, but it is downloading a lot and I'm guessing that any
> network latency is causing this problem.
> 
> Note that I am in Taiwan and since there is no local Devuan mirror
> here (I think), I'm downloading from the US server. This means a lot
> of network latency. Devuan users in the USA might not be seeing this
> error, and ditto for Europeans if there is a mirror in Europe.
> Getting back to my situation, even if there is a Devuan mirror in
> Japan it wouldn't help me because as I understand it, our network
> traffic to Japan is routed via the USA.
> 
> best regards,
> Robert

In the end i went back to your suggestion: But it fails as well. Would
you say 10 attempts of installing, installing  the base system
are enough?

On me it fails always at the same point and always with the same error. 
(For the record: libjson-c2 is needed by rsyslog but not installed).

So in this very moment, apparently there is no way to install devuan :-(

May be someone has an idea about alternatives (???)
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Re: [DNG] Installer Devuan Jessie 1.0 fails

[emninger]

The following reply escaped me without editing the subject and the
author line. Please simply delete it or at least do not regard it.
Sorry for the mistake! :-(

Am Wed, 15 Jun 2016 11:16:48 +
schrieb Simon Walter :

Hi Simon!

> Since it is a universal OS. I would suggest we disable the graphical 
> installer if it causing people to be put off. This may sound like 
> heresy, but the text base installer is not minimal and it is fully 
> functional.
> 
> I remember back in the days when Debian got the graphical installer,
> it was to be treated as BETA quality and if it didn't work, to use
> the text base.
> 
> I think the same applies here. Maybe we need to put a "use with
> caution" note. I think there was something like this on the original
> Debian graphical installer.
> 
> We are not so spoiled that we need to use a mouse for everything, are
> we?
> 
> Simon

My problem (the failure while installing the base system) happens in
both, the graphical and the text mode installer.

I'd suspect there's something wrong with the underlying routines (as
also L. Nodden noted).

A working and solid keyboard only installer would be fine for me - and
i think for most users: It's all about being well explained, input
error tollerant and solid ...

(I could even live fine with an i3 based desktop, when it is well
done ;) ).

Cheers.
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Re: [DNG] Dng Digest, Vol 21, Issue 70

[emninger]

Am Wed, 15 Jun 2016 11:16:48 +
schrieb dng-requ...@lists.dyne.org:

Hi Simon!

> Since it is a universal OS. I would suggest we disable the graphical 
> installer if it causing people to be put off. This may sound like 
> heresy, but the text base installer is not minimal and it is fully 
> functional.
> 
> I remember back in the days when Debian got the graphical installer,
> it was to be treated as BETA quality and if it didn't work, to use
> the text base.
> 
> I think the same applies here. Maybe we need to put a "use with
> caution" note. I think there was something like this on the original
> Debian graphical installer.
> 
> We are not so spoiled that we need to use a mouse for everything, are
> we?
> 
> Simon

My problem (the failure while installing the base system) happens in
both, the graphical and the text mode installer.

I'd suspect there's something wrong with the underlying routines (as
also L. Nodden noted).

A working and solid keyboard only installer would be fine for me - and
i think for most users: It's all about being well explained, input
error tollerant and solid ...

(I could even live fine with an i3 based desktop, when it is well
done ;) ).

Cheers.
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Re: [DNG] Installer Devuan Jessie 1.0 fails

[emninger]

Am Wed, 15 Jun 2016 01:26:45 +
schrieb dng-requ...@lists.dyne.org:

Hi Robert!

> Note that my following comments apply only to a graphical install,
> full-desktop version, which is actually the only kind I've attempted
> so I can't say what would happen with a minimal install in
> text-mode...
> 
> I've gotten this error on EVERY install I've done with Devuan, both
> laptop and desktop computer. However, recovery from the error was
> fairly straightforward, just go back to the screen to install the
> basic system, run it again (note: do not exit the installer!).
> Sometimes the error will still recur, but just keep going back and
> run it again, it will succeed. I believe what's happening is that the
> installer is downloading most of the files it needs but fails to
> download some, so by re-running it goes back and gets the rest of the
> files, it does not start from the very beginning and re-download
> everything. As to why it fails go get those files on the first run, I
> can't say, but it is downloading a lot and I'm guessing that any
> network latency is causing this problem.
> 
> Note that I am in Taiwan and since there is no local Devuan mirror
> here (I think), I'm downloading from the US server. This means a lot
> of network latency. Devuan users in the USA might not be seeing this
> error, and ditto for Europeans if there is a mirror in Europe.
> Getting back to my situation, even if there is a Devuan mirror in
> Japan it wouldn't help me because as I understand it, our network
> traffic to Japan is routed via the USA.
> 
> best regards,
> Robert

Even if it's not really good news, it's a kind of confort, that this
problem does not happen only to me ;) And seems Didier Kryn experiments
the same.

But if so: Shouldn't we investigate the installer? I mean, it's not
really user friendly to have an installer subject to that kind of
errors. And in my experience there are even other problems like the
overheating problem for amd graphics based machines, at least for some
of them. Or the fact, that the installer seems to not install the base
system it brings itself but seems to pull it from the mirrors.

Anyway, i'm well aware human ressources at Devuan are limited but the
installer should be worth a major consideration (?)

Thanks again!

PS. If i do not succeed in repairing my installation like Florian
suggested i'll turn back to your method :)
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Re: [DNG] Installer Devuan Jessie 1.0 fails

[emninger]

Am Tue, 14 Jun 2016 14:22:41 +
schrieb Florian Zieboll :

> From tty 2 or 3, you can wget that missing library, then move the deb
> to /target and chroot there to install it manually.
> 
> libre Grüße,
> 
> Florian

Hi Florian! I tried it that way but it did not work. I was prompted by
the msg that libjson-c2 does not exist. May be it's provided by another
package but i did not succeed in finding it out :-(

In the meantime, i tried another way: The instructions of devlfanboy on
th git for a minimal installation. That went thru fine, but
unfortunately, there seems to be something left of the old & completely
corrupted installation that was on that disk before (a rest of grub). 

In the end i made it by lilo -M /dev/sda mbr.

But now there is another problem: Seems there are lost all the shadow
passwords, both, for root and user. Is there a way to re-establish
them? Please keep in mind, i'm a simple user, eh ... ;)

Thanks in any case for your patience.

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Re: [DNG] Installer Devuan Jessie 1.0 fails

[emninger]

Am Tue, 14 Jun 2016 18:08:50 +
schrieb Paweł Cholewiński :

> Hi,
> could You reproduce this error with another install? If yes, are there
> any other errors before package dependency problem with libjson-c2 on
> console4?
> 
> Regards,
> Paweł

I can reproduce this error with any install from that installer iso on
this machine. 

The machine is a Sony-Vaio Core 7 with nvidia graphics.

Or do you mean another installer iso. If so, which one do you have in
mind? I'd be very grateful for any suggestion.
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[DNG] Installer Devuan Jessie 1.0 fails

[emninger]

Hi all.

I have an urgent problem with the Devuan Jessie 1.0 installer:

When it comes to install the basic system at a certain point the
installation stops with an error. On console 4 i see the following
error msg:

.
dpkg: error processing package rsyslog (--configure):
 dependency problems -leaving unconfigured
Errorswere encountered while processing:
 rsyslog
dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of rsyslog:
 rsyslog depends on libjson-c2 (>= 0.10); however:
  Package libjson-c2 is not installed.
.

May be someone here can help me out, it's relatively urgent.

Thanks a lot in advance!
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[DNG] missing linefeed in libffi6:amd64

[emninger]

Trying to install the gtk2 engines i' am getting the following error
msg:

-
There is missing a final linefeed in the filelisting file of the
package 
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpgk returned an error code (2)
-
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[DNG] task-lxde-desktop 3.33+devuan0.3

[emninger]

Sorry if i am coming back to task-lxde-desktop: 

Finally - and i really do not understand how, but anyway - i succeeded
installin devuan ascii on qemu. I did not install any desktop, but
started from the base installation and installed manually xorg, jwm,
menu and lxdm. Now, looking for lxsession-logout tool (which i did not
find btw!?!?) i checked task-lxde-desktop and i see it pulls in lots of
dependencies which imho are *NOT* needed:

- yelp
- yelp-xsl
- gnome-user-guide
- gnome-desktop3-data
- gnome-disk-utility
- gnome-icon-theme
- gnome-system-tools

is what i note at a first glance (gnome-orca is there too, but i'm not
aware of an alternative). Very likely, there are others too ...

Cheers.
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[DNG] problem with devuan on qemu

[emninger]

I try to install devuan ascii on qemu, following the respective
instructions on the git
(https://git.devuan.org/devuan/devuan-project/wikis/try-devuan-on-qemu).
Boot is fine, i choose expert installation but when it comes to tasksel
the installation of software always fails. I can pass by this step and
go to install grub directly. The new system then, is bootable, but
since there is no way to install wireless due to the missing
wpa_supplicant, i'm going nowhere.

Anyone has an idea why this error might happen? My installation command
looks like this:

qemu-system-x86_64 -enable-kvm -cdrom
devuan_jessie_1.0.0-beta_amd64_CD.iso -hda devuan_disk -boot d -net nic
-net user -m 2048 -localtime


Thanks a lot in advance!

PS. I do not succeed as well in doing a simple jessie installation
(with the idea to change the repositories after and upgrade then to
ascii): I'm prompted with the same identical error msg.
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[DNG] installer iso with wpa_supplicant

[emninger]

I just realized that in the devuan jessie installer in the basic
install (i.e. before you select software and DE) there is no
wpa_supplicant - so you (at least me) cannot configure a wireless
connection from commandline.

(Jaromil in chat confirmed my observation)

Are there any plans to correct that some time soon (or later)?
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Re: [DNG] package request

[emninger]

Am Fri, 10 Jun 2016 17:48:02 +
schrieb Go Linux :

> I use palemoon sometimes.  I actually run it (and tor) from my /user
> directory.  The problem with ANY browser other than FF/Iceweasel is
> the lack of addons - I use about 25.  (Chrome is the worst at this.)
> Palemoon has some of them available but not all.  And they may be
> disappearing from the FF repos as their engine moves to a different
> incompatible platform. Quite a while ago, chillfan and I discussed
> rescuing some addons and he even started such a project on git.  I
> wouldn't mind seeing palemoon in the devuan repos because I suspect
> that eventually FF will become unusable (for me at least).  Steve
> Pusser packaged palemoon for antiX quite a while ago so maybe we
> could get it from there?

I think many add-ons can be substituted by the use of greasemonkey and
scripts (probably not the safest way). At least for midori this is a
reasonable way (and the scripts working there with the help of
greasemonkey can be imported - i think)

Moreover, i think all add-ons which worked for FF pre-australis will
still continue to work. Some extensions, for essential, like
https-everywhere are already ported.

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Re: [DNG] package request

[emninger]

Am Sat, 11 Jun 2016 04:33:34 +
schrieb Irrwahn :

> The deb-packaged version by Steven Pusser I already mentioned 
> in another subthread did not show such issues at the  time I 
> installed it:
> 
> https://software.opensuse.org/download.html?project=home%3Astevenpusser=palemoon
> 
> No libpepperflashplayer.so in the dependency list. Not even a 
> libsergeantpepperslonelyheartsclubflashplayer.so.

Same here - using the same source.

I wanted to add a question: If devuan wants to stay small and compact,
which as a principle is fine IMHO, how then, could you provide the
elements needed for the installation of a desktop environment by
tasksel in the installer?

Could there be something like comunity driven repositories (as i
understand it launchpad is something thatlike for ubuntu (?) ) whereto
a certain task in the installer - eventually - could refer?

Sincerely, i do not have any idea about eventual problems related to
such an option. So, sorry in andvance, if i'm asking a stupid/ingenuous
question.

Cheers.

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Re: [DNG] package request

[emninger]

Am Fri, 10 Jun 2016 14:36:05 +
schrieb dng-requ...@lists.dyne.org:

> > Would it be possible to package palemoon for devuan?  
> 
> Are there a reasons for that?
> 
> I use palemoon myself on Devuan. Just downloaded their bundle and
> opened in /opt/palemoon, set the bin in PATH and ready for use. It
> also notices me for upstream updates.
> 
> I'm open to debate, but personally incline (for this and other
> packages) to concentrate on the maintanance of a *core*, *base* Devuan
> system and leave to individuals and downstream maintain a bigger set
> of packages for specific uses.

Hi Jaromil!

Yes - and no ;)

If i succeed in my attempt with jwm, i'd like to set palemoon as
default browser; it's a bit hard if there is no package ...

But for sure, it's correct what you say about keeping the core packages
as small as possible. OTOH, i for one, would not mind if
icewease/firefox would be substituted even in core by palemoon ... ;)
(It's what i did, individually; after havin tried for a while both in
parallel).

Thanks in any case for your effort & cheers!
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[DNG] package request

[emninger]

Would it be possible to package palemoon for devuan?

Since a while, i am unhappy with firefox/iceweasel and trying here and
there i found that, from a users point of view, palemoon would be a
very valid and viable substitute.

As far as i am able to check, most, if not all privacy related settings
in "about:config" were well set (towards more privacy protection); the
same goes for - imho - essential extensions like https-everywhere or
NoScript. In the all day use the browser feelss faster and more
responsive than firefox.

Since there is also a mobile version, i think palemoon could be really
used as the main browser.

[PS. There are several ways to migrate from firefox to palemoon without
loosing anything but unfortunately the sync service does *NOT* work
across the 2 browsers]
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Re: [DNG] devuan installer and overheating

[emninger]

Am Tue, 07 Jun 2016 08:33:08 +
schrieb Simon Walter :

> I have not noticed this. What are the models of your notebook
> computers?
> 
> You could do everyone a favour and debug it a little. Do you know
> which process was spinning the CPU?

a Samsung NP535U3C (amd processor and graphics)

a Sony Vaio VPCF23S1E (Intel Core i7-2670QM (-HT-MCP-) NVIDIA GF108M)

It always happened when it came to install the software tasks (desktop,
printserver, etc) - apt i'd presume. The fans are going crazy. At first
i thought it might be a problem related to the amd/ati graphics which
unfortunately do not work fine with the free driver. But now, i
realized this also on the Sony Vaio which has nothing to do with amd.
But indeed, on the Vaio it was a qemu installation - but otoh, just to
check, i compiled libre office from source and the machine never got
hotter than 60°. Installing Jessie in qemu the top heat was 87°!

(How can i debug the installation?)
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[DNG] devuan installer and overheating

[emninger]

Finally i succeeded in installing a devuan ascii into qemu (running on
an archlinux openrc system).

And here too, i noticed that the debian installer is somehow "extreme"
in using ressources. Note this is *NOT* an amd graphics based machine
but a sony_vaio with nvidia graphics. (On another laptop, a samsung
with amd processor and graphics, i could not get installed devuan until
i did not put the machine on top of an icepack!!!).

But nevertheless, installing devuan also this vaio heats up to
something like 85° - but it has a stronger fan than, so the
process went through.

I'm wondering why this problems do not happen with installers of other
distros. If this is repeatable for others too, may be, if some one is
able and prepared to do that, it might be good to check, if there is a
reason why (?)

Cheers.

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Re: [DNG] how to make xterm window not close automatically

[emninger]

Buon dì, KatolaZ

Am Mon, 06 Jun 2016 00:16:43 +
schrieb KatolaZ :

> You should try ' -e "inxi | less"

Thx for the hint! But unfortunately,that does *NOT* work in any
terminal program (sakura, lxterminal & cie) within X. 

Using the command with xterm though, produces a nearly unreadable
output: any single result line is "decorated" by an ESC or something
like that.

Cheers.
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[DNG] how to make xterm window not close automatically after executing a command?

[emninger]

If i do 'xterm -T Htop -e htop' the terminal window rests open, if i do
'xterm -T Sysinfo -e inxi -F' the window closes.

In some way it's logical, to me, since htop has not finished its job
until i do not do F10. Inxi, otoh, has finished. But how can i make,
that also the windows with the -inxi -F command rests open?

Thanks a lot in advance!
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Re: [DNG] use zram for /tmp - how?

[emninger]

Am Sun, 05 Jun 2016 12:00:01 +
schrieb Didier Kryn :

>  I have a laptop with 16GB of ram. I configured it like this with 
> the primary goal of not using swap at all. And my /tmp is a tmpfs
> with a 4G limit. This allows me to use an SSD as hard disk drive. I
> didn't want to swap to an SSD.
> 
>  I have never been short of ram in 3 years. I have compiled
> kernels, GCC, and many other things on this laptop, runing make with
> multiple threads; I sometimes got stuck by lack of cpu, never by lack
> of ram.
> 
>  I understand that you want to go further and increase the size
> of your /tmp by compressing it. It seems pretty complicated and
> probably not worth the burden.

Thank you Didier! Would you mind to put your exact configuration here?

Anyway, i went a bit further and around the compressed ram theme.
Given, that i probably will keep the harddrive swap partition
(as i said: for hibernation/s2disk) would it be more useful to use
zswap instead (zswap needs a physical swap device)? And to set the
percentage of ram given to zswap pretty high? (Activate zswap would be
some lines in the bootloader).

So, using tmpfs as parazyd pointed out, would go to be swapped early
into the compressed swap in ram, when there is no more uncompressed ram
available. Or is it ingenuous thinking?

If i understand correctly, zswap will, when it really comes to the
limits swap out the oldest swap pages to the "pysical" swap device,
zram would kill them (?).

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[DNG] adblocking using /etc/hosts

[emninger]

I don't know, if it is the right place here to ask such trivial
questions, if not please tell me, no problem at all.

I wanted to suggest, for the future, may be for a better user
experience, if it is possible and reasonable to create a small script,
which would configure /etc/hosts in a way that ad servers and that like
were redirected to 0.0.0.0 ? May be this could be done in a way that the
user will be prompted, if (s)he would like to install ad-blocking
systemwide and also there should be an option to uninstall the created
list from /etc/hosts .

In my thinking that is a very elegant and easy way to keep the browsers
itself small and efficient. But very likely, i'm missing some cons ...
(?)
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Re: [DNG] use zram for /tmp - how?

[emninger]

Am Sat, 04 Jun 2016 21:14:23 +
schrieb Florian Zieboll :

> just guessing as I am usually rather low on ram... following the
> debian wiki link, for a first try i'd adapt the $SIZE and replace the
> mkswap/swapon lines of the script with "mount /dev/zram$i /tmp" and
> comment out the stop/swapoff part. of course the ramdisk will have to
> be mounted before /tmp is used...

Thanks Florian! That might be an idea - if it is not working the other
way around: like parazyd suggested. May be raise the space of zram swap
and set then tmpfs (which should then, if i understand it correctly,
should use the mem including the virtual mem/swap) ...
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Re: [DNG] comunity driven repositories

[emninger]

Am Wed, 01 Jun 2016 04:55:50 +
schrieb Jaromil :

> I would say for your intentio a good start is to put notes together on
> how to get your installation running (compiling from source stuff if
> necessary), maybe a guide on https://talk.devuan.org where it can
> grow with comments

What section would you suggest, use - study - share - hack ?

TIA
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Re: [DNG] comunity driven repositories [was: Dng Digest, Vol 21, Issue 1]

[emninger]

Am Wed, 01 Jun 2016 04:55:50 +
schrieb Jaromil :

> I understand the issue. this may end up being many packages etc.
> 
> I would say for your intentio a good start is to put notes together on
> how to get your installation running (compiling from source stuff if
> necessary), maybe a guide on https://talk.devuan.org where it can
> grow with comments and perhaps become a wiki.
> [ . . . ]

First of all: Sorry for missing the correct subjectline. I hope
the correction i did, is ok (?)

Thanks a lot for your explanations. Practically we did some step,
you suggest (i.e. wiki on git.devuan.org). We'll see how things
proceed ... ;) 

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Re: [DNG] Dng Digest, Vol 20, Issue 159

[emninger]

Am Tue, 31 May 2016 21:45:52 +
schrieb Jaromil :

[ . . . ]

> yes we share the space on git.devuan.org
> 
> from there code can go to jenkins builds and repository
> here a sketch
> https://devuan.org/os/press/devuan-ci-graph.png
> 
> so be welcome to create a user on the gitlab and push there your
> repositories. when you tried them locally and you think they are
> ready, we can see how to push a build, then we'll need Daniel to help
> with that. and some patience and good faith.

[ . . . ]

Thanks for that infos. I'm a simple (and somehow stupid) user compared
to most of you. So please forgive, if i am unprecise. And i am well
aware of the fact, that desktops are not the main target here ;) I
have that jwm desktop on *MY* devuan jessie installation up and running
smooth and fine, with a really very small footprint. And, imho, pretty
eye candy too (but that's about tastes, i know ;) ).

But to have that, i put together some tools, scripts and knowledge from
crunchbang and manjaro openrc. Those tools are not available in the
"regular" repositories, may be yet ... (?) But when it comes to be
able to make with good reasons the proposal to have, in the installer a
desktop option "JWM", at least some of that tools should be pulled into
the installation by the installer. I think it's not that
userfriendly to point her/him to: (only as an example) get this or that
from soureforge.net or from the arch wiki repositories and so on. At
least the skeleton of the desktop should be there after the
installation.

And then, could a user, if (s)he wants, add those to her/his sources
list?

Just as an example: There is a small tool, a python script, called
xdgmenumaker (made by gapan and available on github as well as in the
slackbuilds) which makes a menu for jwm, fluxbox, pekwm, openbox & cie.
on the fly, takes care automatically of any changement you do
(add/remove etc.) and it works like swiss watch. But it's not available
through the repositories. Having it, makes the configuration of a menu
for jwm a joke.

Ok, that's it. I thank you for your patience in any case and i'll try
to do my best ;)

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[DNG] comunity driven repositories

[emninger]

Hello list!

Is it possible/wished to have comunity driven repositories for devuan?
Background: trying to put together the stuff to make a viable JWM
desktop for devuan, i realize there are some key
applications/scripts/tools which are *NOT* in the devuan repositories
(not even in testing or unstable). So, how one could play around that
problem?

Thanks a lot in advance for your patience.
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[DNG] What's the correct place for backgrounds, wallpapers etc.

[emninger]

I see in the Jessie installation the Devuan backgrounds are placed
in /etc/alternatives. Is that a good place? One would expect them
rather in /usr/share/wallpapers, or not?

Cheers.
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Re: [DNG] [OT] Re: You might have seen this already...

[emninger]

Am Sun, 29 May 2016 12:00:02 +
schrieb KatolaZ :

> You know what baffles me? It is that all this fuss has been made in
> the name of making "Linux Desktop" a better experience, while the
> major use of Linux is on servers, backend infrastructure, and high
> performance computing, where users give no more than a shit to how
> beautiful their Linux desktop looks like, since most of the time they
> don't have one.
> 
> Linux desktops amount to no more than 1% of the total desktop
> users. Even if some "magic" can increase this percentage by an
> incredible 300%, it will still be 4% of the market. So it's obvious
> that "desktop users" cannot be the real reason behind systemd and the
> quest to eaten up all the low-level userspace. The server market is
> the reason. And it's there that you need "One Ring to Rule Them
> All"...
> 
> HND
> 
> KatolaZ

+1
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Re: [DNG] Thanks for your help

[emninger]

Am Fri, 27 May 2016 12:00:01 +
schrieb Didier Kryn <k...@in2p3.fr>:

> Dear emninger, when you are finished more more than less, it would 
> be very valuable if you could give us a summary, like a simple howto, 
> because digging the thread to trace back everything you tried is a
> lot of work. I think a mail with a proper title going to the archive
> could do it.
> 
>  Cheers.
>  Didier

I will try ... Irrwahn, who followed closer might be the one who can
judge if it's worse the pain or not.

Mainly, what i did was about jwm as a desktop environment. Since it is
for me personally, i had no retention to "steel" from other
installations/distros, but i do not know, if this is "politically"
correct, eventhough we're always talking about FOSS (?).

Anyway, over the weekend i'll try to put the things together. May be,
then, someone more familiar with english and "computerese" can have a
look at it.

Cheers.
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[DNG] Thanks for your help

[emninger]

Hi all!

I wanted to say thank you to you all for patience and your help. I've
finished now, more or less, my installation with a "custom made" jwm
desktop. So far, so fine.

The remaining logout problem, seems to be solved by the installation of
lxdm (which is not that much bigger than slim; i also had a look at
mdm, but it's enormous, in comparison). With lxdm, my logouts go back
to the login like they are expected to do; with slim and with lightdm i
always ended in dead screen with underline cursor, inactive, up left.
Apparently like the shutdown xserver was unable to pass back to the
login manager (also true when i killed the xserver with Ctrl-Alt-Bksp).
This did *NOT* happen when i started without login manager (by startx).

Now, my ~/.xsessionrc looks like this, it's very primitive, i know:

---
#!/bin/bash
xrdb -merge .Xresources
setxkbmap -option terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp
exec jwm
exit 0
---

In lxdm, beside some "artwork", i set this options:

---
[server]
## arg used to start xserver, not fully function
arg=/usr/bin/X -background vt1
# uncomment this if you really want xserver listen to tcp
# tcp_listen=1
# uncoment this if you want reset the xserver after logout
# reset=1


By default, all were commented out, but i thought the first one might
be useful to avoid my ugly logout problem (??)

It seems to me, lxdm does not look into /usr/share/xsessions but reads
by default this file (when i took out the "exec jwm") lxdm did not
start anything although it recignized there are also lxde and openbox
(in /usr/share/xsessions), i'd like to know, if there is a way to state
in .xsessionrc, that there are other sessions which could be started if
chosen in lxdm (with jwm in any case as default)? Then it would be
perfect :) 


As for the rest, "my" desktop consists in a relative elaborated
configuration which for the most part i stole from Manjaro OpenRC JWM +
pcmanfm. If one would like, pcmanfm could even put the trash, devices
and other icons on the desktop. Plus a Plank starterbar at the bottom.

(Plank and lxdm, i got from the ascii repositories; jwm is the jessie
default one). If you'd like i could post somewhere a screenshot, so you
can see that it's not "debianized" :)

Cheers.
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Re: [DNG] Logout problem

[emninger]

Some time ago Ozi Traveller helped me out for my logout problem sending
me 2 desktop environment independent logout tools (cb-exit and
oblogout, which essentially do the same, only oblogout is a bit more
eye candy). I had some problems with them but solved by changing the
localauthority settings of polkit.

Now, i have the chance to access my manjaro-openrc machine and i see
they do use oblogout in a slightly different manner: For them, oblogout
works as a kind of skin over a script called "fluxboxexit" (which
adresses both, systemd and openrc. For those interested, you can look
at it here: http://hastebin.com/ufeluvobiw.rb). The /etc/oblogout.conf
then look like this:

---
[settings]
usehal = false

[looks]
opacity = 40
bgcolor = black
# buttontheme = 
buttontheme = foom
buttons = lock, logout, switch, suspend, hibernate, restart, shutdown,
cancel

[shortcuts]
lock = K
logout = L
switch = W
suspend = U
hibernate = H
restart = R
shutdown = S
cancel = Escape

[commands]
lock = ob_blurlock
logout = fluxboxexit logout
switch = dm-tool switch-to-greeter
suspend = fluxboxexit suspend
hibernate = fluxboxexit hibernate
restart = fluxboxexit reboot
shutdown = fluxboxexit shutdown
---

May be it's not that bad as an idea?
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Re: [DNG] Evince

[emninger]

I do not find the msg, but someone here suggested to use xpdf, possibly
with a more esthetic skin. 

I for one, would love that, since i find xpdf really very functional
and with acceptable print options too.
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Re: [DNG] OpenRC: Was: Re: Dng Digest, Vol 20, Issue 138

[emninger]

Am Thu, 26 May 2016 12:50:19 +0200
schrieb Svante Signell :

> On Thu, 2016-05-26 at 11:28 +0200, emnin...@riseup.net wrote:
> 
> Please keep the subject, even if you are reading the mails via the
> Digest service!

You're right! Sorry about that, i was too fast :-( Btw, could that be
corrected ex post, by the administrator(s)? 

Eventually bringing back the correct subjectline or simply by bouncing
back the entire mail (with a reason) giving the chance to the author to
correct the subjectline?
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Re: [DNG] Dng Digest, Vol 20, Issue 138

[emninger]

Am Thu, 26 May 2016 06:38:05 +
schrieb Steve Litt :

> Before you do this, allow me to ask you this question: Do you want the
> capability of respawning daemons that crash? OpenRC can't do that. If
> you prefer respawning, consider using s3, daemontools-encore or even
> Runit to manage your daemons.

Hi Steve, thanks for the explanation.

First, a question: sysvinit does
respawning?

Personally, i'd like to *NOT* have it: I think it's better to restart a
crashed service manually. Let's think of some bad configuration of a
service/daemon, for example, in Void it would endlessly try to restart
and fail ... (without automatic respawning one could leave the service
there and try to reconfiugure it correctly).
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[DNG] Please excuse me for using a wrong smtp server

[emninger]

Please excuse me for using - sometimes - a wrong (not subscribed) smtp
server. Using several mail services for different purposes, soemtimes i
was too hasty sending a mail out. So, sorry for that. (I hoped, being
not registered with that account, the mails wouldn't be accepted ;) ).

Cheers!
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[DNG] Pulseaudio ...

[emninger]

Is pulseaudio necessary? As i understand it (and as i remember), it
shouldn't be needed (in lubuntu at least in former times) it was not
installed ... (?) But it's a long time i was away from Debian ...
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[DNG] Configure Xterm

[emninger]

I would like to have in the terminal (i use xterm), directories shown
not only with a different colour (i managed that) but also with final
slash (i liked that in some bsd and in slackware), e.g.:

~/.bogofilter/
~/.claws-mail/

etc. Someone knows by chance how to set that in .Xresources?

Thanks a lot in advance.
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Re: [DNG] How to change default session

[emninger]

Am Tue, 24 May 2016 14:12:07 +
schrieb Irrwahn :

> Checked with your above script. Again, works for me: C-M-BS 
> kills X server dead instantly.

So does for me now; there was a typo in ~/.xsession.rc :-(

I changed the cmd_login line in slim to be sure it loads correctly all
i want. If i execute the standard login_cmd without cycling thru the
sessions options, no desktop is started at (but i want charge you to
try something with slim - i saw your request ;).

BUT: Just to learn something what would be the difference
between .xinitrc and .xsessionrc?

In the standard login command (for linux)
login_cmd   exec /bin/bash -login /etc/X11/Xsession %session
%session is referred to what? The session chosen (by F1)?

And, do i read correctly /etc/X11/Xsession, that it automatically
integrates ~/.Xresources and ~/.xsessionrc ? So, there will be no need
to merge .Xresources in .xsessionrc ... (?) - differently from .xinitrc
which starts X without using /etc/X11/Xsession.

Thanks a lot in advance for our patience!


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Re: [DNG] How to change default session

[emninger]

Am Tue, 24 May 2016 07:27:11 +
Irrwahn  wrote::

> I tried that a few days ago, and got some ... umm ... 
> "interesting" results. I just tried that again on a clean 
> VM install (dropped a one-liner for ~/.xsessionrc) and at 
> first it did indeed look better. However, after exiting from 
> jwm immediately the (default) lxde session came up, and I 
> had to in turn log out of that to return to the DM (lightdm 
> or slim, either one).
> 
> On second thought that's not surprising, so I added exit 0 
> to .xsessionrc, e viola: exiting from jwm dropped me back 
> to the DM. *However*, I am not entirely convinced that 
> method has no other drawbacks besides the obvious flaw that 
> I now can no longer log into another session type by 
> selecting it in the display manger. Clearly more hacking 
> is needed here! And all that just to keep a deprecated, 
> broken display manager. But, oh well! :P

That's interesting: Just guessing in the dark (me, eh, not you capable
persons!) there might be also my problem with the logout (which happens
from time to time). Apparently, it looks like the logout does not get
to an X process resting blocked there. So, i tried your "exit 0".

Now, i wanted to ask - a probably very dumb question:

.xsessionrc or .xinitrc (what's difference? .xinitrc is used/needed to
do "startx" (i.e. start X without a login manager), correct? How otoh i
would make slim point to .xsessionrc ?

Just to try i edited both identically:
---
#!/bin/bash
xrdb -merge .Xresources
setxkbmap -option terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp
exec jwm 
exit 0
---

It seems to work for starting X via startx. For slim i would have to
change the login command this way:

login_cmd   exec /bin/bash -login ~/.xinitrc

?

@ Irrwahn: Your keyboard setting to have the forced break of an
xsession seems to not be respected though (?)

What am i doing wrong? Or, might there be an alternative to set that
keyboard command in the startup of JWM? I looked into the startup of my
old fluxbox/crunchbang desktop and there i have:


# Only run fbxkb when there are more than 1 available layouts
setxkbmap -query | grep "^layout:" | sed "s/^layout: *//" | \
grep -q "," && [ -x /usr/bin/fbxkb ] && fbxkb &


Would that be, ceteris paribus, transposable, in some way, to jwm
to have the Ctrl+Alt+Bksp... (?)


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[DNG] OpenRC

[emninger]

Is there a link to an instruction how to use (and setup) openrc
together with sysvinit? 

I'd like to use openrc as a tool to administrate daemons and services
since i find it a lot more "logical" (easy?). One question for example
is, if can be used the (needed) openrc scripts from other distros (like
Gentoo or Manjaro)? To form them on my one, i think that's far away
from my capabilities ...
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Re: [DNG] How to change default session

[emninger]

Am Tue, 24 May 2016 07:27:11 +
schrieb Irrwahn :

Thanks!!!

> Protip: If you'd like to avoid such unwanted installs, 
> there is an easy way to tweak apt, namely by creating 
> this file:
> 
>   $ cat /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/01norecommends 
>   APT::Install-Recommends "0";
>   APT::Install-Suggests "0";
> 
> Actually, that's usually one of the first things I do on 
> a fresh De??an system. There is one potential drawback 
> though: *Some* of the "Recommends" might actually be quite 
> useful. In those cases you'd have to install them manually. 

Just a simple question: the "--no-install-recommends" (or
"--with(out)-recommends" for aptitude) would do the same?
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