Re: [DNG] Does dunst require dbus?

[Florian Zieboll]

On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 21:11:46 +0100
Adam Borowski  wrote:

> On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 08:10:31PM +0100, Florian Zieboll wrote:
>
> > I had played a bit with the tiling and highly (GUI) configurable
> > "Terminator" but was bounced back to xterm very quickly due to its
> > footprint and wrote the following secremote.sh script. It has not
> > been tested with more than the few defined colors but I am not
> > aware of any limitations other than that of the X11 palette.   
> 
> This approach breaks the moment you ssh from an existing terminal,
> especially if you ssh from box 2 to box 3.
> 
> I'd instead recommend setting PS1 in .bashrc on those machines to
> something distinct.

Nice that this also works Xless / on the console :) Although I am not
too much into working from "behind proxies", I had a closer look at the
PS1 strings Didier posted in this thread on Friday. I could find the
backslash escaped special /characters/ documented in the bash(1)
manpage. A web search for the text formatting (colors and style) of
course returned a lot of results, including several "PS1 generators",
some "Extreme Power Prompt" examples [1] and this extensive "Bash
Prompt HOWTO" [2] at TLDP. But where would I have to look "on board"
for a documentation of these powerful escape sequences? 

By the way, I just noticed that packages.debian.org has the doc-linux
package listed no longer but in oldoldstable.

Ahoi,

Florian



[1] http://www.askapache.com/linux/bash-power-prompt.html
[2] http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Bash-Prompt-HOWTO/

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Re: [DNG] Does dunst require dbus?

[Hendrik Boom]

On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 02:30:15PM +0100, Didier Kryn wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the links. Actually I think I derived my PS1 settings
> from an example found in some default .bashrc. I found the colors by
> try and fail, or maybe I looked at what ncurses was producing. Of
> course you don't want to use ncurses here since you want to keep a
> scrolling terminal. I eventually wrote a simple C programs which
> changes the color. It understands color names in english and french
> - easy to change to your prefered language.
> 
> Steve can see the use I make of indentation and curly braces
> placement is non-standard, but it makes blocks more visible :-)

Really, not al lthat standard.  It resembles the formatting that the FSF
recommends.  Or once recommended, if I recall correctly.

It's my preferred formatting, too.

There's a longstanding dispute whether to use this one or the one 
used in examples in the old K book.  THe dispute will probaby never 
be resolved. 

--- hendrik

> 
> #include 
> #include 
> #include 
> #include 
> 
> static int myputc(int c)
> {
>   return fputc(c, stdout);
> }
> 
> #define defcolor max_colors+1
> #define SETCOLOR(C) tputs(tparm(set_foreground, C), 1, myputc)
> 
> int main(int argc, char **argv)
> {
>   const char * const couleurs[] =
>   {"noir", "bleu", "vert", "cyan", "rouge", "magenta", "jaune", "gris"};
>   const char * const colours[] =
>   {"black", "blue", "green", "cyan", "red", "magenta", "yellow", "grey"};
> 
>   int c;
>   char choix[8];
> 
>   if(isatty(1)) setupterm(NULL, 1, NULL);
>   else return 0;
> 
>   if(argc>1)
> {
>   for(c=0; argv[1][c] && c<8; c++) choix[c] = tolower(argv[1][c]);
>   choix[c] = '\0';
>   for(c=0; c<8; c++)
> {
>   if(!strncmp(couleurs[c], choix, strlen(couleurs[c]))) break;
>   if(!strncmp(colours[c], choix, strlen(couleurs[c]))) break;
> }
> }
>   else c = defcolor;
> 
>   SETCOLOR(c);
>   fflush(stdout);
>   return 0;
> }
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Re: [DNG] Does dunst require dbus?

[Didier Kryn]

Le 24/01/2016 11:27, Florian Zieboll a écrit :

On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 21:11:46 +0100
Adam Borowski  wrote:


>On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 08:10:31PM +0100, Florian Zieboll wrote:
>

> >I had played a bit with the tiling and highly (GUI) configurable
> >"Terminator" but was bounced back to xterm very quickly due to its
> >footprint and wrote the following secremote.sh script. It has not
> >been tested with more than the few defined colors but I am not
> >aware of any limitations other than that of the X11 palette.

>
>This approach breaks the moment you ssh from an existing terminal,
>especially if you ssh from box 2 to box 3.
>
>I'd instead recommend setting PS1 in .bashrc on those machines to
>something distinct.

Nice that this also works Xless / on the console:)  Although I am not
too much into working from "behind proxies", I had a closer look at the
PS1 strings Didier posted in this thread on Friday. I could find the
backslash escaped special/characters/  documented in the bash(1)
manpage. A web search for the text formatting (colors and style) of
course returned a lot of results, including several "PS1 generators",
some "Extreme Power Prompt" examples [1] and this extensive "Bash
Prompt HOWTO" [2] at TLDP. But where would I have to look "on board"
for a documentation of these powerful escape sequences?

By the way, I just noticed that packages.debian.org has the doc-linux
package listed no longer but in oldoldstable.

Ahoi,

Florian



[1]http://www.askapache.com/linux/bash-power-prompt.html
[2]http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Bash-Prompt-HOWTO/


Thanks for the links. Actually I think I derived my PS1 settings 
from an example found in some default .bashrc. I found the colors by try 
and fail, or maybe I looked at what ncurses was producing. Of course you 
don't want to use ncurses here since you want to keep a scrolling 
terminal. I eventually wrote a simple C programs which changes the 
color. It understands color names in english and french - easy to change 
to your prefered language.


Steve can see the use I make of indentation and curly braces 
placement is non-standard, but it makes blocks more visible :-)


#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 

static int myputc(int c)
{
  return fputc(c, stdout);
}

#define defcolor max_colors+1
#define SETCOLOR(C) tputs(tparm(set_foreground, C), 1, myputc)

int main(int argc, char **argv)
{
  const char * const couleurs[] =
  {"noir", "bleu", "vert", "cyan", "rouge", "magenta", "jaune", "gris"};
  const char * const colours[] =
  {"black", "blue", "green", "cyan", "red", "magenta", "yellow", "grey"};

  int c;
  char choix[8];

  if(isatty(1)) setupterm(NULL, 1, NULL);
  else return 0;

  if(argc>1)
{
  for(c=0; argv[1][c] && c<8; c++) choix[c] = tolower(argv[1][c]);
  choix[c] = '\0';
  for(c=0; c<8; c++)
{
  if(!strncmp(couleurs[c], choix, strlen(couleurs[c]))) break;
  if(!strncmp(colours[c], choix, strlen(couleurs[c]))) break;
}
}
  else c = defcolor;

  SETCOLOR(c);
  fflush(stdout);
  return 0;
}

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Re: [DNG] Does dunst require dbus?

[Florian Zieboll]

On Fri, 22 Jan 2016 00:09:23 -0500
Steve Litt  wrote:

> different color terminals for
> ssh sessions

I had played a bit with the tiling and highly (GUI) configurable
"Terminator" but was bounced back to xterm very quickly due to its
footprint and wrote the following secremote.sh script. It has not been
tested with more than the few defined colors but I am not aware of any
limitations other than that of the X11 palette. As it is released to
the public now: feel free to use it as you like.

--
#!/bin/bash

# this script takes "user@host" or a hostname/IP as argument to 
# establish a ssh connection in an individually background-colored 
# xterm window as defined below

# connection definitions: multiple connections per color separated by 
# colons, sequential numbering is required

CONNS0=gate.lan:u...@server.lan
CONNS1=user1@server1.domain:userx@ip
CONNS2=server2:sdfsdf.sdf
CONNS3=dljfghldkjf:someone@192.168.120.55
CONNS4=

# color definitions: numbering according to connection definitions

COLOR0=lightcyan
COLOR1=bisque
COLOR2=lightgrey
COLOR3=palegreen
COLOR4=
COLORELSE=honeydew

# shuffling variables

CONNALL=`set | grep CONNS`

CONNEXP=`echo "$CONNALL" | \
sed -e 's/\./\\\./g' \
-e 's/CONNS[0-9]*\=//' \
-e s/\'//g \
-e 's/\:/\|/'`

CONNARR=($CONNEXP)

CONNLIN=`echo "${CONNARR[@]}" | \
sed -e 's/\ /\|/g'`

COUNT=0

# assigning color to connection

if  [[ "$@" =~ ^($CONNLIN)$ ]] ; then
while (( "$COUNT" < ${#CONNARR[@]} )) ; do
if [[ "$@" =~ ^(${CONNARR[$COUNT]})$ ]] ; then
break
else
COUNT=$(($COUNT+1))
fi
done
elif  [[ "$@" =~ \@($CONNLIN)$ ]] ; then
while (( "$COUNT" < ${#CONNARR[@]} )) ; do
if [[ "$@" =~ ^(${CONNARR[$COUNT]})$ ]] ; then
break
elif [[ "$@" =~ .*(${CONNARR[$COUNT]})$ ]] ; then
break
else
COUNT=$(($COUNT+1))
fi
done
else
COUNT=ELSE
fi

# colors, not numbers

COLOR=COLOR"$COUNT"
COLOR="${!COLOR}"

# start xterm and connect to server

xterm -bg "$COLOR" -T "${@/*@/}" -e ssh "$@" &

exit 0

--

Now I have a bunch of one-liners like the following in $PATH. This
might be less elegant but (form follows function) saves me even more
typing:

--
#!/bin/bash
xterm -bg bisque -T hostname -e ssh user@host &
exit 0
--

And of course some defaults in Xresources:

--
xterm*Background:   beige
xterm*Foreground:   black
xterm*faceName: Inconsolata:size=11
--

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Re: [DNG] Does dunst require dbus?

[Adam Borowski]

On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 08:10:31PM +0100, Florian Zieboll wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Jan 2016 00:09:23 -0500
> Steve Litt  wrote:
> 
> > different color terminals for
> > ssh sessions
> 
> I had played a bit with the tiling and highly (GUI) configurable
> "Terminator" but was bounced back to xterm very quickly due to its
> footprint and wrote the following secremote.sh script. It has not been
> tested with more than the few defined colors but I am not aware of any
> limitations other than that of the X11 palette. 

This approach breaks the moment you ssh from an existing terminal,
especially if you ssh from box 2 to box 3.

I'd instead recommend setting PS1 in .bashrc on those machines to something
distinct.

-- 
A tit a day keeps the vet away.
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Re: [DNG] Does dunst require dbus?

[Steve Litt]

On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 20:10:31 +0100
Florian Zieboll  wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Jan 2016 00:09:23 -0500
> Steve Litt  wrote:
> 
> > different color terminals for
> > ssh sessions  
> 
> I had played a bit with the tiling and highly (GUI) configurable
> "Terminator" but was bounced back to xterm very quickly due to its
> footprint and wrote the following secremote.sh script. 

:-)

If it's many colors and a tiny footprint are desired, what I've done is
compiled Suckless Tools' st terminal with many different color
combinations, each with the name 'zz' plus the first letter of the
foreground color plus the first letter of the background color.

Suckless Tools terminals are very low footprint, but they also lack
features necessary for certain tasks. IIRC you'd never use one for a
login terminal, and IIRC they can't be told to run a certain script
(like xterm -e). But they often suffice, and you can easily compile
them to have the exact font size you like.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
January 2016 featured book: Twenty Eight Tales of Troubleshooting
http://www.troubleshooters.com/28


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Re: [DNG] Does dunst require dbus?

[Teodoro Santoni]

2016-01-23 21:44 GMT+01:00, Steve Litt :
> Suckless Tools terminals are very low footprint, but they also lack
> features necessary for certain tasks. IIRC you'd never use one for a
> login terminal, and IIRC they can't be told to run a certain script
> (like xterm -e). But they often suffice, and you can easily compile
> them to have the exact font size you like.

I currently launch tmux on st with this command:
nohup st -t "$USER At $HOSTNAME" -e tmux

st had the -e option since ages. Some time ago it didn't work properly,
if I remember right, but for me never yield any bug.
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Re: [DNG] Does dunst require dbus?

[Didier Kryn]

Le 22/01/2016 06:09, Steve Litt a écrit :

Yes! After the last time I did an rm -rf on my laptop, only to discover
it was in an ssh session to my main computer where I didn't want to
delete anything, I always use different color terminals for ssh
sessions and for root sessions. Roxterm's file based "profiles" make it
trivial to have as many of those as you want. Priceless!


Here is how I set prompt colors in .bashrc, depending on user:

For myself:
PS1='${debian_chroot:+($debian_chroot)}\[\033[01;32m\]\u@\h\[\033[00m\]:\[\033[01;34m\]\w\[\033[00m\]\$ 
'


For www-data:
PS1='${debian_chroot:+($debian_chroot)}\[\033[01;35m\]\u@\h\[\033[00m\]:\[\033[01;34m\]\w\[\033[00m\]\$ 
'


For root:
PS1='${debian_chroot:+($debian_chroot)}\[\033[01;31m\]\u@\h\[\033[00m\]:\[\033[01;34m\]\w\[\033[00m\]\$ 
'


Of course background colour can't be set by this simple way. But note 
that this colour setting is also available in xfce4-terminal and in 
gnome-terminal. BTW, I've read some of ROX's docs and they say many 
applications were forked from Gnome.


Didier

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Re: [DNG] Does dunst require dbus?

[Didier Kryn]

Le 21/01/2016 05:57, Simon Wise a écrit :

On 19/01/16 04:59, Steve Litt wrote:

On Mon, 18 Jan 2016 13:31:43 +1100
Simon Wise  wrote:


But recently discovered that xfce4-terminal loses critical
functionality without a session dbus running (it no longer connects
to the cut buffer and clipboard ... which really destroys its
functionality). I dropped it in favour of roxterminal which is very
similar, based on the same engine I believe, but it does the cut
buffer and clipboard etc directly, as it should.


Hi Simon,

Thanks to your recommendation, I just started using roxterm. What a
breath of fresh air! Tabbed. Multiple profiles mean all sorts of
different terminals for different needs. No unholy union to a "desktop
environment" other than the rox filemanager system.


they are independent, I think ... though perhaps some D might be a
bit cleaner between them??? they both just interact with X and allow
extensive file-based configuration if you want to use it. Last time I
tried both worked fine just in X alone, no other management.



I need several different types of terminal emulators for several
different types of jobs. From now on I'm using roxterm instead of
xfce4-terminal for all new construction.


"profiles" can easily be invoked on CL if you want distinctive
appearance to indicate different tasks.


Simon


I installed roxterm and rox-filer. Both are just nice behaving. 
roxterm doesn't seem to differ in apearence, configurability or 
behaviour, from xfce4-terminal or gnome-terminal.


rox-filer is nice looking, but it needs some configuration. Here 
are the two waek points I noticed


- there is absolutely no application defined by default for any 
file type; you must define them all - this is a miss in the packaging.
- there isn't a menu of possible applications for a given file 
type. I like to be able to open an image with either a simple viewer or 
with Gimp to edit it.


And here are some features I like:

- If you left-click with the shift key pressed, you always open the 
file with the application you have defined for raw text. This allows to 
edit an html file instead of browsing it.


- files are open on single click (double click in Thunar), though 
this is a personal preference.


Didier


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Re: [DNG] Does dunst require dbus?

[Hendrik Boom]

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 11:03:18AM +0100, Didier Kryn wrote:
> Le 21/01/2016 05:57, Simon Wise a écrit :
> >On 19/01/16 04:59, Steve Litt wrote:
> >>On Mon, 18 Jan 2016 13:31:43 +1100
> >>Simon Wise  wrote:
> >>
> >>>But recently discovered that xfce4-terminal loses critical
> >>>functionality without a session dbus running (it no longer connects
> >>>to the cut buffer and clipboard ... which really destroys its
> >>>functionality). I dropped it in favour of roxterminal which is very
> >>>similar, based on the same engine I believe, but it does the cut
> >>>buffer and clipboard etc directly, as it should.
> >>
> >>Hi Simon,
> >>
> >>Thanks to your recommendation, I just started using roxterm. What a
> >>breath of fresh air! Tabbed. Multiple profiles mean all sorts of
> >>different terminals for different needs. No unholy union to a "desktop
> >>environment" other than the rox filemanager system.
> >
> >they are independent, I think ... though perhaps some D might be a
> >bit cleaner between them??? they both just interact with X and allow
> >extensive file-based configuration if you want to use it. Last time I
> >tried both worked fine just in X alone, no other management.
> >
> >
> >>I need several different types of terminal emulators for several
> >>different types of jobs. From now on I'm using roxterm instead of
> >>xfce4-terminal for all new construction.
> >
> >"profiles" can easily be invoked on CL if you want distinctive
> >appearance to indicate different tasks.
> >
> >
> >Simon
> 
> I installed roxterm and rox-filer. Both are just nice behaving.
> roxterm doesn't seem to differ in apearence, configurability or
> behaviour, from xfce4-terminal or gnome-terminal.
> 
> rox-filer is nice looking, but it needs some configuration. Here
> are the two waek points I noticed
> 
> - there is absolutely no application defined by default for any
> file type; you must define them all - this is a miss in the
> packaging.
> - there isn't a menu of possible applications for a given file
> type. I like to be able to open an image with either a simple viewer
> or with Gimp to edit it.
> 

So I tried installing it, and found that it recommended zeroinstall-injector.
Anyone know what this is?  It seems to be a "platform-independent 
package manager".  What does this mean in relation to rox-filer.  And 
how does it relate to apt and aptitude.

Might it alleviate some of the above complaints?

-- hendrik
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Re: [DNG] Does dunst require dbus?

[Didier Kryn]

Le 21/01/2016 12:33, Hendrik Boom a écrit :

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 11:03:18AM +0100, Didier Kryn wrote:

Le 21/01/2016 05:57, Simon Wise a écrit :

On 19/01/16 04:59, Steve Litt wrote:

On Mon, 18 Jan 2016 13:31:43 +1100
Simon Wise  wrote:


But recently discovered that xfce4-terminal loses critical
functionality without a session dbus running (it no longer connects
to the cut buffer and clipboard ... which really destroys its
functionality). I dropped it in favour of roxterminal which is very
similar, based on the same engine I believe, but it does the cut
buffer and clipboard etc directly, as it should.

Hi Simon,

Thanks to your recommendation, I just started using roxterm. What a
breath of fresh air! Tabbed. Multiple profiles mean all sorts of
different terminals for different needs. No unholy union to a "desktop
environment" other than the rox filemanager system.

they are independent, I think ... though perhaps some D might be a
bit cleaner between them??? they both just interact with X and allow
extensive file-based configuration if you want to use it. Last time I
tried both worked fine just in X alone, no other management.



I need several different types of terminal emulators for several
different types of jobs. From now on I'm using roxterm instead of
xfce4-terminal for all new construction.

"profiles" can easily be invoked on CL if you want distinctive
appearance to indicate different tasks.


Simon

 I installed roxterm and rox-filer. Both are just nice behaving.
roxterm doesn't seem to differ in apearence, configurability or
behaviour, from xfce4-terminal or gnome-terminal.

 rox-filer is nice looking, but it needs some configuration. Here
are the two waek points I noticed

 - there is absolutely no application defined by default for any
file type; you must define them all - this is a miss in the
packaging.
 - there isn't a menu of possible applications for a given file
type. I like to be able to open an image with either a simple viewer
or with Gimp to edit it.


So I tried installing it, and found that it recommended zeroinstall-injector.
Anyone know what this is?  It seems to be a "platform-independent
package manager".  What does this mean in relation to rox-filer.  And
how does it relate to apt and aptitude.

Might it alleviate some of the above complaints?

I always use apt-get install --no-install-recommends, or "default 
upgrade" in Synaptic. And I don't look at the recommended packages :-)


This "recommends" feature has become a kind of bin for packages the 
maintainers would like desperately to "require" for obscure reasons, but 
they fail to find a valid one.


Didier


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Re: [DNG] Does dunst require dbus?

[Steve Litt]

On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 11:03:18 +0100
Didier Kryn  wrote:


>  I installed roxterm and rox-filer. Both are just nice behaving. 
> roxterm doesn't seem to differ in apearence, configurability or 
> behaviour, from xfce4-terminal or gnome-terminal.

I too have used rox-filer (but not yet rox-session), and found it the
kind of thing that you could learn to like. I learned of its existence
thanks to Simon's roxterm recommendation, and I'm using rox-filer every
once in a while, and starting to like it more.

> 
>  rox-filer is nice looking, but it needs some configuration. Here 
> are the two waek points I noticed
> 
>  - there is absolutely no application defined by default for any 
> file type; you must define them all - this is a miss in the packaging.

With Void Linux some of the filetypes are predefined, but a lot aren't.

>  - there isn't a menu of possible applications for a given file 
> type. I like to be able to open an image with either a simple viewer
> or with Gimp to edit it.

Those menus are a double-edged sword. You maneuver thru the whole
thing, don't find the executable you really want, and then have to
furthergui to install an unlisted app.

> 
>  And here are some features I like:
> 
>  - If you left-click with the shift key pressed, you always open
> the file with the application you have defined for raw text. This
> allows to edit an html file instead of browsing it.

Nice! Thanks for that tip!

> 
>  - files are open on single click (double click in Thunar),
> though this is a personal preference.

I wouldn't want that for Thunar, but somehow, in rox I like it :-)

SteveT

Steve Litt 
January 2016 featured book: Twenty Eight Tales of Troubleshooting
http://www.troubleshooters.com/28


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Re: [DNG] Does dunst require dbus?

[Hendrik Boom]

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 04:57:28PM +0100, Didier Kryn wrote:
> Le 21/01/2016 12:33, Hendrik Boom a écrit :

> >So I tried installing it, and found that it recommended zeroinstall-injector.
> >Anyone know what this is?  It seems to be a "platform-independent
> >package manager".  What does this mean in relation to rox-filer.  And
> >how does it relate to apt and aptitude.
> >
> >Might it alleviate some of the above complaints?
> >
> I always use apt-get install --no-install-recommends, or
> "default upgrade" in Synaptic. And I don't look at the recommended
> packages :-)

I use aptitude, and of course I use it in the default mode that does 
not automatically install recommendations, in keeping with 
Devuan-style minimalism.  But it doesn't wtop me from wondering why 
other packages are recommended, and whether I might find them useful.

Back in the Debian days, when I installed asciidoc I ended up with 
all of docbook and all of Tex's many packages, which I had no use for, 
since all I needed was to generate HTML  (Why asciidooc? because I 
was working on someone else's project).  I'm pleased wth the Devuan 
defaults.
   
> 
> This "recommends" feature has become a kind of bin for packages
> the maintainers would like desperately to "require" for obscure
> reasons, but they fail to find a valid one.
> 
> Didier

the reasons are often obscure only because the package descriptions 
are so telegraphic.  Ideally the package manager should be 
organised to let the developer to explain why each of those packages 
had been recommended so that the user can decide.

In this case I'm getting clue.  Zero-install turns out to be a package 
manager, that apparently works compatibly on Linux, Windows, OS X, 
Unix, and in case that isn't enough, also as source code.

Rox is a desktop.  The Rox terminal (recommeded in this thread 
originally) and the Rox file manager are components of Rox, but as we 
see they can easily be used independently.

I suspect that zeroinstall is the native, cross-platform package 
installer that Rox uses, and quite possibly that a lot of the 
file-type handlers for the rox file manager are available as 
zero-install packages.  Stll, I'd like to *know* that instead  of just 
suspecting it.

Zeroinstall can apparently allow users to install packages without 
requiring them to have administrative privileges, can ensure that 
when the same version of the same package is installed by different 
users, only one copy occupies disk space, keep track of which 
users belong with which packages (so they don't get their stuff mixed 
up) and install multiple different versions of one package in case 
users have different constraints because of the curse of 
compatibility.

Annd, to my surprise, the current zeroinstall is written in OCaml, a 
language that's a pretty good tool for writing reliable software.  The 
previous version was apparently written in python.

I'm both surprised and pleased to see OCaml to escape from the 
clutches of logicians and theorem provers into the wider world of 
system programming.  I've always thought that about 90 or more 
percent of the C code in the world could better be written in 
OCaml.  Perhaps there's now someone else that agrees with me.

-- hendrik
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Re: [DNG] Does dunst require dbus?

[Simon Wise]

On 22/01/16 07:41, Hendrik Boom wrote:

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 04:57:28PM +0100, Didier Kryn wrote:

Le 21/01/2016 12:33, Hendrik Boom a écrit :



I suspect that zeroinstall is the native, cross-platform package
installer that Rox uses, and quite possibly that a lot of the
file-type handlers for the rox file manager are available as
zero-install packages.  Stll, I'd like to *know* that instead  of just
suspecting it.

Zeroinstall can apparently allow users to install packages without
requiring them to have administrative privileges, can ensure that
when the same version of the same package is installed by different
users, only one copy occupies disk space, keep track of which
users belong with which packages (so they don't get their stuff mixed
up) and install multiple different versions of one package in case
users have different constraints because of the curse of
compatibility.

Annd, to my surprise, the current zeroinstall is written in OCaml, a
language that's a pretty good tool for writing reliable software.  The
previous version was apparently written in python.


Rox as an environment seems little maintained and quite old, the website says it 
is "RISC OS for X". They had an application-as-folder system and Rox-filer would 
still deal with these if you used them, they called this system zeroinstall 
since it just required copying the self-contained application folder. Probably 
has the same ultimate ancestry as Apple's application folder system.



Simon

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Re: [DNG] Does dunst require dbus?

[Simon Wise]

On 21/01/16 21:03, Didier Kryn wrote:

Le 21/01/2016 05:57, Simon Wise a écrit :

On 19/01/16 04:59, Steve Litt wrote:

On Mon, 18 Jan 2016 13:31:43 +1100
Simon Wise wrote:


But recently discovered that xfce4-terminal loses critical
functionality without a session dbus running (it no longer connects
to the cut buffer and clipboard ... which really destroys its
functionality). I dropped it in favour of roxterminal which is very
similar, based on the same engine I believe, but it does the cut
buffer and clipboard etc directly, as it should.


Hi Simon,

Thanks to your recommendation, I just started using roxterm. What a
breath of fresh air! Tabbed. Multiple profiles mean all sorts of
different terminals for different needs. No unholy union to a "desktop
environment" other than the rox filemanager system.


they are independent, I think ... though perhaps some D might be a
bit cleaner between them??? they both just interact with X and allow
extensive file-based configuration if you want to use it. Last time I
tried both worked fine just in X alone, no other management.



I need several different types of terminal emulators for several
different types of jobs. From now on I'm using roxterm instead of
xfce4-terminal for all new construction.


"profiles" can easily be invoked on CL if you want distinctive
appearance to indicate different tasks.


Simon


I installed roxterm and rox-filer. Both are just nice behaving. roxterm doesn't
seem to differ in apearence, configurability or behaviour, from xfce4-terminal
or gnome-terminal.


the main reason I use it instead is that xfce-terminal depends on a desktop 
session, dbus etc to function properly while roxterm does not.


The  second advantage for me (since I use colours to indicate some tasks) is the 
profile/theme configuration is easier to deal with and file based.




rox-filer is nice looking, but it needs some configuration. Here are the two
waek points I noticed

- there is absolutely no application defined by default for any file type; you
must define them all - this is a miss in the packaging.


Here it has  defaults  I think via the MIME system?? but maybe this depends 
on something else being installed? There certainly should be defaults.



- there isn't a menu of possible applications for a given file type. I like to
be able to open an image with either a simple viewer or with Gimp to edit it.


Very easy to add any that you wish, there is a folder of links for each file 
type, and another that fills the 'send to..' menu for every file type.


"Customise Menu.." takes you there, and gives a brief explanation.



And here are some features I like:

- If you left-click with the shift key pressed, you always open the file with
the application you have defined for raw text. This allows to edit an html file
instead of browsing it.

- files are open on single click (double click in Thunar), though this is a
personal preference.


configurable in 'Options'



Didier


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Re: [DNG] Does dunst require dbus?

[Simon Wise]

On 22/01/16 02:57, Didier Kryn wrote:

Le 21/01/2016 12:33, Hendrik Boom a écrit :



Might it alleviate some of the above complaints?


I always use apt-get install --no-install-recommends, or "default upgrade" in
Synaptic. And I don't look at the recommended packages :-)

This "recommends" feature has become a kind of bin for packages the maintainers
would like desperately to "require" for obscure reasons, but they fail to find a
valid one.


But some more polite packages do use it properly ... for things that are not 
actually dependencies, but that you probably want, and may well miss, if you use 
the package in an average kind of way. It is worth a quick look during the 
apt-get process.


Simon

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Re: [DNG] Does dunst require dbus?

[Steve Litt]

On Fri, 22 Jan 2016 14:52:39 +1100
Simon Wise  wrote:

> On 22/01/16 02:57, Didier Kryn wrote:

> > This "recommends" feature has become a kind of bin for packages the
> > maintainers would like desperately to "require" for obscure
> > reasons, but they fail to find a valid one.  
> 
> But some more polite packages do use it properly ... for things that
> are not actually dependencies, but that you probably want, and may
> well miss, if you use the package in an average kind of way. It is
> worth a quick look during the apt-get process.

I think it depends on the user. The user who would most likely use
Ubuntu, for instance, has little knowledge of package management and
would probably prefer every possible dependency package for every
possible feature be installed.

But for Devuan, and pre 2014 Debian, I'd imagine the average user
would rather the package manager be more conservative in installing
dependencies.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
January 2016 featured book: Twenty Eight Tales of Troubleshooting
http://www.troubleshooters.com/28


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Re: [DNG] Does dunst require dbus?

[Steve Litt]

On Fri, 22 Jan 2016 14:47:59 +1100
Simon Wise  wrote:


> The  second advantage for me (since I use colours to indicate some
> tasks) is the profile/theme configuration is easier to deal with and
> file based.

Yes! After the last time I did an rm -rf on my laptop, only to discover
it was in an ssh session to my main computer where I didn't want to
delete anything, I always use different color terminals for ssh
sessions and for root sessions. Roxterm's file based "profiles" make it
trivial to have as many of those as you want. Priceless!

SteveT

Steve Litt 
January 2016 featured book: Twenty Eight Tales of Troubleshooting
http://www.troubleshooters.com/28


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Re: [DNG] Does dunst require dbus?

[Rainer Weikusat]

Simon Wise  writes:

[...]

> But recently discovered that xfce4-terminal loses critical
> functionality without a session dbus running (it no longer connects to
> the cut buffer and clipboard ... which really destroys its
> functionality).

Desktop environment/ window manager independent copy'n'paste is another
feature supposed to be eliminated as soon as technically feasible.
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Re: [DNG] Does dunst require dbus?

[Steve Litt]

On Mon, 18 Jan 2016 13:31:43 +1100
Simon Wise  wrote:

> But recently discovered that xfce4-terminal loses critical
> functionality without a session dbus running (it no longer connects
> to the cut buffer and clipboard ... which really destroys its
> functionality). I dropped it in favour of roxterminal which is very
> similar, based on the same engine I believe, but it does the cut
> buffer and clipboard etc directly, as it should.

Hi Simon,

Thanks to your recommendation, I just started using roxterm. What a
breath of fresh air! Tabbed. Multiple profiles mean all sorts of
different terminals for different needs. No unholy union to a "desktop
environment" other than the rox filemanager system.

I need several different types of terminal emulators for several
different types of jobs. From now on I'm using roxterm instead of
xfce4-terminal for all new construction.

Thank you!

SteveT

Steve Litt 
January 2016 featured book: Twenty Eight Tales of Troubleshooting
http://www.troubleshooters.com/28


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Re: [DNG] Does dunst require dbus?

[Simon Wise]

On 17/01/16 08:08, Steve Litt wrote:

On Sat, 16 Jan 2016 15:32:11 -0500
Mitt Green  wrote:


Steve Litt wrote:


I'm not for a moment suggesting Devuan should remove Debian's libdbus
dependency. We have bigger fish to fry.


$ apt-cache rdepends libdbus-1-3
libdbus-1-3
Reverse Depends:
(...)
436 packages at all on my Unstable


[slitt@mydesk ~]$ xbps-query -RX dbus-libs | wc -l
139
[slitt@mydesk ~]$

Yeah, Devuan, Void or practically anywhere else, at this point trying
to remove dbus is like jousting windmills.

Of course, on good distros, you don't have to actually start dbus :-)


I've seen a lot of apps that will accept dbus if you want to use it, but do not 
require it ... this seems reasonable, dbus is just one of the options for 
communicating with it, and they might then require the lib.


But recently discovered that xfce4-terminal loses critical functionality without 
a session dbus running (it no longer connects to the cut buffer and clipboard 
... which really destroys its functionality). I dropped it in favour of 
roxterminal which is very similar, based on the same engine I believe, but it 
does the cut buffer and clipboard etc directly, as it should. It does connect to 
a session bus if it exists, and communicates appropriately ... just that the 
only thing it does if one does not exist is print a line to stderr then get on 
with everything else.


It seems the author may be abandoning it though, which is a pity.


Simon
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Re: [DNG] Does dunst require dbus?

[Rob]

 Original Message 

Subject: [DNG] Does dunst require dbus?
Local Time: January 16 2016 5:02 pm
UTC Time: January 16 2016 5:02 pm
From: sl...@troubleshooters.com
To: dng@lists.dyne.org

Hi all,

dunst is a notification daemon that temporarily gui-prints whatever is
specified by various notify-send commands. Some questions:

Does dunst depend on dbus?
Can dunst be run without dbus?
Can notify-send be run without dbus?

I'd be a lot more open to using notifications if they could be
completely independent of dbus.

Thanks,

SteveT

Steve Litt
January 2016 featured book: Twenty Eight Tales of Troubleshooting
http://www.troubleshooters.com/28


https://github.com/knopwob/dunst/blob/master/INSTALL___
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[DNG] Does dunst require dbus?

[Steve Litt]

Hi all,

dunst is a notification daemon that temporarily gui-prints whatever is
specified by various notify-send commands. Some questions:

Does dunst depend on dbus?
Can dunst be run without dbus?
Can notify-send be run without dbus?

I'd be a lot more open to using notifications if they could be
completely independent of dbus.

Thanks,

SteveT

Steve Litt 
January 2016 featured book: Twenty Eight Tales of Troubleshooting
http://www.troubleshooters.com/28


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Re: [DNG] Does dunst require dbus?

[Mitt Green]

Steve Litt wrote:

>Does dunst depend on dbus?

Well, according to apt-cache depends, it needs dbus' shared library
(libdbus-1-3).

>Can dunst be run without dbus?
>Can notify-send be run without dbus?

Since it doesn't depend on dbus package, which contains
dbus-daemon, it may be able to.

Not sure, whether having libdbus-1-3 is a concern.
dbus(-dev) is required for building. libdbus-1-3 itself doesn't
needdbus.

>I'd be a lot more open to using notifications if they could be
>completely independent of dbus.

In case you want to try something else, there are also
statnot [1] and twmn [2].
statnot requires dbus-python for building; twmn
is used in tiling window managers.

From what I understand, all these nofication daemons simply rely on
dbus' shared library but does not require dbus-daemon & Co. to run.

[1]: https://github.com/halhen/statnot
[2]: https://github.com/sboli/twmn


My two cents,
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Re: [DNG] Does dunst require dbus?

[Mitt Green]

Steve Litt wrote:

>I'm not for a moment suggesting Devuan should remove Debian's libdbus
>dependency. We have bigger fish to fry.

$ apt-cache rdepends libdbus-1-3
libdbus-1-3
Reverse Depends:
(...)
436 packages at all on my Unstable


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Re: [DNG] Does dunst require dbus?

[Steve Litt]

On Sat, 16 Jan 2016 12:26:07 -0500
Mitt Green  wrote:

> Steve Litt wrote:
> 
> >Does dunst depend on dbus?  
> 
> Well, according to apt-cache depends, it needs dbus' shared library
> (libdbus-1-3).
> 
> >Can dunst be run without dbus?
> >Can notify-send be run without dbus?  
> 
> Since it doesn't depend on dbus package, which contains
> dbus-daemon, it may be able to.
> 
> Not sure, whether having libdbus-1-3 is a concern.

Probably not. My fight is with systemd, not dbus or PulseAudio.
However, the whole systemd episode has made me untrusting of anything
promoted by Freedesktop.Org, so in an ideal world I'd have no dbus.


> dbus(-dev) is required for building. libdbus-1-3 itself doesn't
> needdbus.

It might be possible that this dependency is a per-distro thing. The
reason I say that both these commands output nothing on a Void Linux
machine:

[slitt@mydesk ~]$ xbps-query  --fulldeptree -x libnotify | grep -i dbus
[slitt@mydesk ~]$ xbps-query  --fulldeptree -x dunst | grep -i dbus
[slitt@mydesk ~]$

I'm not for a moment suggesting Devuan should remove Debian's libdbus
dependency. We have bigger fish to fry.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
January 2016 featured book: Twenty Eight Tales of Troubleshooting
http://www.troubleshooters.com/28


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Re: [DNG] Does dunst require dbus?

[Steve Litt]

On Sat, 16 Jan 2016 15:32:11 -0500
Mitt Green  wrote:

> Steve Litt wrote:
> 
> >I'm not for a moment suggesting Devuan should remove Debian's libdbus
> >dependency. We have bigger fish to fry.  
> 
> $ apt-cache rdepends libdbus-1-3
> libdbus-1-3
> Reverse Depends:
> (...)
> 436 packages at all on my Unstable

[slitt@mydesk ~]$ xbps-query -RX dbus-libs | wc -l
139
[slitt@mydesk ~]$

Yeah, Devuan, Void or practically anywhere else, at this point trying
to remove dbus is like jousting windmills.

Of course, on good distros, you don't have to actually start dbus :-)

SteveT

Steve Litt 
January 2016 featured book: Twenty Eight Tales of Troubleshooting
http://www.troubleshooters.com/28


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Re: [DNG] Does dunst require dbus?

[Teodoro Santoni]

Good evening,

2016-01-16 20:53 GMT+01:00, Steve Litt :
> Probably not. My fight is with systemd, not dbus or PulseAudio.
> However, the whole systemd episode has made me untrusting of anything
> promoted by Freedesktop.Org, so in an ideal world I'd have no dbus.

A friend of mine uses don't-know-which distro without dbus.
Everything is easy when you're a lisp-nut and you do the majority of
your computing from inside Emacs.

> It might be possible that this dependency is a per-distro thing. The
> reason I say that both these commands output nothing on a Void Linux
> machine:
[snip]

Libnotify depends on GLib, which under its GIO sub-module has functions
and data objects for telling things to a DBus... bus.
Yeah, GLib reimplements what it should do under libdbus. And C99.
Yeah, something may complain whenever you try to run dunst and
notify-send and dbus isn't up, but the dependency graph of libnotify
not depending on dbus or libdbus is technically correct.
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