Re: [DNG] Is Void OK? Was: Keep it alive

[Hendrik Boom]

On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 05:44:08PM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
> On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 12:17:58PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> > On Thu, 17 May 2018 11:16:50 +0100
> > KatolaZ  wrote:
> > 
> > > https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/16/contributing_to_keep_small_linux_alive/
> > > 
> > > Very interesting piece on the importance of contributing to keep alive
> > > your favourite distro. Well, Devuan is mentioned in the article among
> > > the "larger" distros, but the reasoning still applies to us I think.
> > 
> > Wait a minute. Contributing is the minor message of the referenced
> > link. The major message is that the Void Project Leader has apparently
> > disappeared, as described here:
> > 
> > https://www.voidlinux.eu/news/2018/05/serious-issues.html
> > 
> > The voidlinux.eu domain is currently at risk, as is Github, and maybe
> > the Void IRC channels.
> > 
> > What can we Void users do to help, during these challenging days?
> > 
> 
> You should probably ask that question to the Void developers :-)
> 
> We actually reached out on the Void IRC channel a few days ago, saying
> that we would be happy to help if needed. I got a pm reply from
> Gottox, who said that their main problem at the moment seems to be
> re-acquiring access to the github account that contains all the
> packages. Unfortunately there is little we can do on that front, but I
> really hope that they will find a way and continue with the
> development ASAP.

So the github account isn't even publicly *readable*?

-- hendrik
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Re: [DNG] Is Void OK? Was: Keep it alive

[Alessandro Selli]

On  Sat, 19 May 2018 20:49:45 +0200
Arnt Karlsen  ha wrote:

> On Sat, 19 May 2018 16:57:07 +0200, Alessandro wrote in message 
> <20180519165707.504d5c33@ayu.localdomain>:
> 
> > On Sat, 19 May 2018 at 16:42:49 +0200
> > Arnt Karlsen  wrote:
> >   
> > > On Sat, 19 May 2018 04:25:53 +0200, Alessandro wrote in message 
> > > <20180519042553.7ba51256@ayu.localdomain>:
> > >
> > >>> {headdesk}
> > >>> 
> > >>> I really don't think it's that difficult to understand that
> > >>> avoiding outsourcing in no way precludes appropriate fallbacks
> > >>> and measures to eliminate SPoFs.  I'm frankly quite puzzled that
> > >>> my mentioning (as an example) GitLab elicited the comment 'This
> > >>> wouldn't have helped [because] you need redundancy' -- when I
> > >>> nowhere suggested eschewing redundancy and when that open source
> > >>> project has a mountain of documentation on that very subject.
> > >>> And I'm puzzled a second time to see you ignore my having just
> > >>> pointed that out, as if I hadn't.
> > >> 
> > >>   You need redundancy in repository's admins, not on
> > >> infrastructure.  
> > >
> > > ..you need both, IME.  17 years ago, I was the final lawful
> > > webmaster at fmb.no, our domain docs were stolen by
> > > https://www.frp.no/ people. 
> > 
> >   Humm, how can infrastructure redundancy protect against document
> > stealth?  
> 
> ..theft, not stealth.  Google those 2. ;o)
> 
> > Infrastructure redundancy protects you against hardware
> > failure, not legal or bureaucratic events.  
> 
> ..that's your narrow view.  Real infrastructure redundancy means 
> setting up at least 2 fully independent web sites with at least 
> 2 competing independent web hotels mirroring each other,

  Web hosts, not hotels.  Google those 2. ;o)

> and feed
> them content over rsync, scp etc from a master server on e.g. a 
> cell phone.

  As I already said, this does nothing against theft of documents or
the allegedly illegal transfer of an Internet domain name or hijack of a DNS
record.

> ..in our case, problem was time and funding to litigate the control 
> of such legal or bureaucratic events.  4 hours before the "primary"
> ballot filing deadline, we were told we needed "5000 signatures" to
> file, truth is 500, we mobilized and got over 12,000 approved, despite
> having inch thick piles of signature sheets stolen from the 2 major
> Statoil gas stations south of Stavanger on Feb 28'th 2001.

  Infrastructure redundancy does not protect you against such events, too.
All of these events in fact involved non ICT infrastructures.

> ..from then on, it was all sabotage, I took over as webmaster in late
> July/early August, and without said infrastructure control, we wound 
> up with 688 votes.


Alessandro 


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Re: [DNG] Is Void OK? Was: Keep it alive

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Sat, 19 May 2018 13:14:14 -0700, Rick wrote in message 
<20180519201414.ge2...@linuxmafia.com>:

> Quoting Arnt Karlsen (a...@iaksess.no):
> 
> > 17 years ago, I was the final lawful
> > webmaster at fmb.no, our domain docs were stolen by
> > https://www.frp.no/ people. 
> 
> Just to unpack a bit of what you say, for those less able to follow
> your nation's affairs, and practicing my translation skills, your
> registered (and now-vanished) organisation Folkeaksjonen mot
> bompenger (fmb.no) had a name translating to 'people against tolls'.

..close, in our 2001 context: "the people's movement against 
abusing toll road toll collection as an excuse to set up 
expensive and expansive surveillance infrastructures for 
absolutely no good reason."


> You appear to have been conducting a grassroots campaign against
> excessive road 

..correct.

> (and presumably ferry) 

..wrong, we need ferries.

> tolls, charging among other things that the pattern of same was a
> product of influence over politicians in the Storting (parliament)

..er, we ran to take their seats in parliament.  
That language, they _totally_ understand. ;o)

> by Statoil, the national oil/gas company.

..stealing ballot signatures remains a crime against democracy.

> 'frp.no' refers to Fremskrittspartiet ('Progress Party'), a right-wing
> populist political party in Norway.
> https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fremskrittspartiet

..correct, this is our copycat nazi party.  Their politics is not
really different from Breivik, Breivik merely was a little more
hands-on and a little less efficient.  
The "Conservative" Party (Høyre) is The Original Nazi party, 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Rosenberg copied their 
1927 "zigøinerparagraf" ...
https://www.cappelendamm.no/_et-uonsket-folk-9788202562601
https://www.aftenposten.no/meninger/kronikk/i/Aq2E/Norges-glemte-skam
https://www.dagbladet.no/kultur/romfolkets-holocaust-og-norges-ansvar/63263272
https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/jGGXw/utestengt-fra-norge-drept-i-auschwitz

...and had Adolf Hitler et al do it on the Jews etc too.


..in fmb.no, we accepted the reality of man made climate change and
welcomed immigrants.  The big thing on toll road toll collection, was
the expensive and expansive surveillance infrastructure "needed" to 
collect the tolls, it's much cheaper to simply slap it on top of the 
fuel pump price, the bridges around Tromsø was paid off by half a 
krone per liter at the gas pumps in and around the city of Tromsø.

-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.
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Re: [DNG] Is Void OK? Was: Keep it alive

[Rick Moen]

Quoting Arnt Karlsen (a...@iaksess.no):

> 17 years ago, I was the final lawful
> webmaster at fmb.no, our domain docs were stolen by
> https://www.frp.no/ people.   

Just to unpack a bit of what you say, for those less able to follow your
nation's affairs, and practicing my translation skills, your registered
(and now-vanished) organisation Folkeaksjonen mot bompenger (fmb.no) had
a name translating to 'people against tolls'.  You appear to have been
conducting a grassroots campaign against excessive road (and presumably
ferry) tolls, charging among other things that the pattern of same was a
product of influence over politicians in the Storting (parliament) by
Statoil, the national oil/gas company.

'frp.no' refers to Fremskrittspartiet ('Progress Party'), a right-wing
populist political party in Norway.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fremskrittspartiet

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Re: [DNG] Is Void OK? Was: Keep it alive

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Sat, 19 May 2018 16:57:07 +0200, Alessandro wrote in message 
<20180519165707.504d5c33@ayu.localdomain>:

> On Sat, 19 May 2018 at 16:42:49 +0200
> Arnt Karlsen  wrote:
> 
> > On Sat, 19 May 2018 04:25:53 +0200, Alessandro wrote in message 
> > <20180519042553.7ba51256@ayu.localdomain>:
> >  
> >>> {headdesk}
> >>> 
> >>> I really don't think it's that difficult to understand that
> >>> avoiding outsourcing in no way precludes appropriate fallbacks
> >>> and measures to eliminate SPoFs.  I'm frankly quite puzzled that
> >>> my mentioning (as an example) GitLab elicited the comment 'This
> >>> wouldn't have helped [because] you need redundancy' -- when I
> >>> nowhere suggested eschewing redundancy and when that open source
> >>> project has a mountain of documentation on that very subject.
> >>> And I'm puzzled a second time to see you ignore my having just
> >>> pointed that out, as if I hadn't.  
> >> 
> >>   You need redundancy in repository's admins, not on
> >> infrastructure.
> >
> > ..you need both, IME.  17 years ago, I was the final lawful
> > webmaster at fmb.no, our domain docs were stolen by
> > https://www.frp.no/ people.   
> 
>   Humm, how can infrastructure redundancy protect against document
> stealth?

..theft, not stealth.  Google those 2. ;o)

> Infrastructure redundancy protects you against hardware
> failure, not legal or bureaucratic events.

..that's your narrow view.  Real infrastructure redundancy means 
setting up at least 2 fully independent web sites with at least 
2 competing independent web hotels mirroring each other, and feed
them content over rsync, scp etc from a master server on e.g. a 
cell phone.


..in our case, problem was time and funding to litigate the control 
of such legal or bureaucratic events.  4 hours before the "primary"
ballot filing deadline, we were told we needed "5000 signatures" to
file, truth is 500, we mobilized and got over 12,000 approved, despite
having inch thick piles of signature sheets stolen from the 2 major
Statoil gas stations south of Stavanger on Feb 28'th 2001.

..from then on, it was all sabotage, I took over as webmaster in late
July/early August, and without said infrastructure control, we wound 
up with 688 votes.


-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.
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Re: [DNG] Is Void OK? Was: Keep it alive

[Rick Moen]

Quoting Alessandro Selli (alessandrose...@linux.com):

>   Which, 

is a conversation I said I'm not going to have.

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Re: [DNG] Is Void OK? Was: Keep it alive

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Sun, 20 May 2018 01:39:37 +1000, Andrew wrote in message 
:

> On 20/05/18 00:42, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> > ..you need both, IME.  17 years ago, I was the final lawful
> > webmaster at fmb.no, our domain docs were stolen by
> > https://www.frp.no/ people.   
> 
> Is there an English translation for that?
> 
> https://web.archive.org/web/20051119085953/http://www.fmb.no:80/

..try Google's try:
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto=en=y=_t=en=UTF-8=https%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20051119085953%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.fmb.no%3A80%2F=


-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.
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Re: [DNG] Is Void OK? Was: Keep it alive

[Steve Litt]

On Fri, 18 May 2018 17:44:08 +0100
KatolaZ  wrote:

> On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 12:17:58PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> > On Thu, 17 May 2018 11:16:50 +0100
> > KatolaZ  wrote:
> >   
> > > https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/16/contributing_to_keep_small_linux_alive/
> > > 
> > > Very interesting piece on the importance of contributing to keep
> > > alive your favourite distro. Well, Devuan is mentioned in the
> > > article among the "larger" distros, but the reasoning still
> > > applies to us I think.  
> > 
> > Wait a minute. Contributing is the minor message of the referenced
> > link. The major message is that the Void Project Leader has
> > apparently disappeared, as described here:
> > 
> > https://www.voidlinux.eu/news/2018/05/serious-issues.html
> > 
> > The voidlinux.eu domain is currently at risk, as is Github, and
> > maybe the Void IRC channels.
> > 
> > What can we Void users do to help, during these challenging days?
> >   
> 
> You should probably ask that question to the Void developers :-)

Sorry. Brain fart on my part. I had thought I was asking on the Void
list.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
June 2018 featured book: Twenty Eight Tales of Troubleshooting
http://www.troubleshooters.com/28


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Re: [DNG] Is Void OK? Was: Keep it alive

[Andrew McGlashan]

On 20/05/18 00:42, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> ..you need both, IME.  17 years ago, I was the final lawful webmaster
> at fmb.no, our domain docs were stolen by https://www.frp.no/ people. 

Is there an English translation for that?

https://web.archive.org/web/20051119085953/http://www.fmb.no:80/

Cheers
A.
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Re: [DNG] Is Void OK? Was: Keep it alive

[Alessandro Selli]

On Sat, 19 May 2018 at 16:42:49 +0200
Arnt Karlsen  wrote:

> On Sat, 19 May 2018 04:25:53 +0200, Alessandro wrote in message 
> <20180519042553.7ba51256@ayu.localdomain>:
>
>>> {headdesk}
>>> 
>>> I really don't think it's that difficult to understand that avoiding
>>> outsourcing in no way precludes appropriate fallbacks and measures
>>> to eliminate SPoFs.  I'm frankly quite puzzled that my mentioning
>>> (as an example) GitLab elicited the comment 'This wouldn't have
>>> helped [because] you need redundancy' -- when I nowhere suggested
>>> eschewing redundancy and when that open source project has a
>>> mountain of documentation on that very subject.  And I'm puzzled a
>>> second time to see you ignore my having just pointed that out, as
>>> if I hadn't.
>> 
>>   You need redundancy in repository's admins, not on infrastructure.  
>
> ..you need both, IME.  17 years ago, I was the final lawful webmaster
> at fmb.no, our domain docs were stolen by https://www.frp.no/ people. 

  Humm, how can infrastructure redundancy protect against document stealth?
Infrastructure redundancy protects you against hardware failure, not legal or
bureaucratic events.

Alessandro



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Re: [DNG] Is Void OK? Was: Keep it alive

[Rick Moen]

Quoting Alessandro Selli (alessandrose...@linux.com):

>   Whom shouldn't do that, the distro developer or the distro's admin?

The various people in charge of a distribution acting in a suitable
collaborative fashion, or other responsible parties acting as decided
and arranged by said distro.  The question you raise a change of subject
to details of distribution administration that Linux distributions
themselves can and should work out, and routinely do.

I am guessing you merely wish to perpetuate an argument.  I prefer not,
and have no interest in further discussion on your (changed) topic.

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Re: [DNG] Is Void OK? Was: Keep it alive

[Alessandro Selli]

On Fri, 18 May 2018 at 15:30:27 -0700
Rick Moen  wrote:

> Quoting Alessandro Selli (alessandrose...@linux.com):
> 
>> Adam Borowski's point is that if you have a single person
>> administering the distro's infrastructure it does not matter if the
>> infrastructure is an autonomous one or if it's hosted on GitHub:  
>
> So, Don't Do That, Then.

  Whom shouldn't do that, the distro developer or the distro's admin?
Typically developers and contributors do not have the master repositories'
"keys", so it does not matter if those keys open up a personal repo, or a
GitLab or a GitHub one.  If the admin has the only set of keys and suddently
disappears, repos are inaccessible no matter where they are.  "Don't Do
That", sure, but people do that, and it's their decision over which you
have no control.

> {headdesk}
> 
> I really don't think it's that difficult to understand that avoiding
> outsourcing in no way precludes appropriate fallbacks and measures to
> eliminate SPoFs.  I'm frankly quite puzzled that my mentioning (as an
> example) GitLab elicited the comment 'This wouldn't have helped
> [because] you need redundancy' -- when I nowhere suggested eschewing
> redundancy and when that open source project has a mountain of
> documentation on that very subject.  And I'm puzzled a second time to
> see you ignore my having just pointed that out, as if I hadn't.

  You need redundancy in repository's admins, not on infrastructure.

> And redundant infrastructure (obviously) facilitates redundant
> administration and oversight.

  Did you miss in this case "redundant administration" is exactly what is
amiss?  Was the main repo on GitLab or WhateverHub nothing would have
changed: develpers whould still be unable to access it.

> Why is this difficult?  I don't think it is.


  I think you misunderstood what was meant by "redundant".


Alessandro

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Re: [DNG] Is Void OK? Was: Keep it alive

[Rick Moen]

Quoting Alessandro Selli (alessandrose...@linux.com):

> Adam Borowski's point is that if you have a single person
> administering the distro's infrastructure it does not matter if the
> infrastructure is an autonomous one or if it's hosted on GitHub:

So, Don't Do That, Then.

{headdesk}

I really don't think it's that difficult to understand that avoiding
outsourcing in no way precludes appropriate fallbacks and measures to
eliminate SPoFs.  I'm frankly quite puzzled that my mentioning (as an
example) GitLab elicited the comment 'This wouldn't have helped
[because] you need redundancy' -- when I nowhere suggested eschewing
redundancy and when that open source project has a mountain of
documentation on that very subject.  And I'm puzzled a second time to
see you ignore my having just pointed that out, as if I hadn't.

And redundant infrastructure (obviously) facilitates redundant
administration and oversight.

Why is this difficult?  I don't think it is.

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Re: [DNG] Is Void OK? Was: Keep it alive

[Alessandro Selli]

On Fri, 18 May 2018 at 13:18:25 -0700
Rick Moen  wrote:

> Quoting Adam Borowski (kilob...@angband.pl):
>
> [the likes of GitLab:]
>
>> This wouldn't have helped.  A piece of infrastructure that's run by a
>> person who gets run over the bus, or throws a tantrum, is inaccessible
>> just the same as when hosted on GitHub.
>> 
>> You need redundancy.  
>
> I'm puzzled:  What about the likes of GitLab precludes redundancy?  In
> that particular instance, there are gobs of detailed documention devoted
> to that subject, e.g.,
> https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/administration/high_availability/
>
> I take the crucial need for fallbacks and elimination of SPoFs so much for
> granted that I seldom see a need to belabour that point.

  Adam Borowski's point is that if you have a single person
administering the distro's infrastructure it does not matter if the
infrastructure is an autonomous one or if it's hosted on GitHub: all the
distro's developers are still going to be locked out of the repository if
that person vanishes. It's a redundancy of people that's needed, not (just)
of infrastructure.


Alessandro
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Re: [DNG] Is Void OK? Was: Keep it alive

[Rick Moen]

Quoting Adam Borowski (kilob...@angband.pl):

[the likes of GitLab:]

> This wouldn't have helped.  A piece of infrastructure that's run by a person
> who gets run over the bus, or throws a tantrum, is inaccessible just the
> same as when hosted on GitHub.
> 
> You need redundancy.

I'm puzzled:  What about the likes of GitLab precludes redundancy?  In
that particular instance, there are gobs of detailed documention devoted
to that subject, e.g.,
https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/administration/high_availability/

I take the crucial need for fallbacks and elimination of SPoFs so much for
granted that I seldom see a need to belabour that point.

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Re: [DNG] Is Void OK? Was: Keep it alive

[Adam Borowski]

On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 10:18:24AM -0700, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting KatolaZ (kato...@freaknet.org):
> 
> > I got a pm reply from Gottox, who said that their main problem at the
> > moment seems to be re-acquiring access to the github account that
> > contains all the packages. 
> 
> Maybe, the first step should be to learn the lesson 'Don't outsource
> your development architecture to a proprietary sofware company that may
> for reasons of its own become a problem to you.'
> 
> There are fully reasonable self-hosted, open source GitHub workalikes,
> such as GitLab.  Maybe VoidLinux should be setting one up and developing
> its own VCS and packaging architecture.

This wouldn't have helped.  A piece of infrastructure that's run by a person
who gets run over the bus, or throws a tantrum, is inaccessible just the
same as when hosted on GitHub.

You need redundancy.  Anyone can go missing with no warning.  Heck, I myself
got hauled in an ambulance from an airport mere three weeks ago, despite
being 100% ok a short while before.  Your disk can go bad, that's why you
have RAID and backups.  Your DNS server can go bad, that's why you have two
authoritatives.  The person holding your domain contact can go down just the
same.


Meow!
-- 
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
⣾⠁⢰⠒⠀⣿⡁ 
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ Certified airhead; got the CT scan to prove that!
⠈⠳⣄ 
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Re: [DNG] Is Void OK? Was: Keep it alive

[Rick Moen]

Quoting KatolaZ (kato...@freaknet.org):

> I know it might seem a silly comment, but building and maintaining an
> independent development infrastructure actually requires a
> considerable amount of energy and time (and money). So I am not
> surprised if a distro might decide to cut on the infra and focus only
> on the development.

Not at all silly.  The advantages are obvious and can seem very
compelling.  After all, nobody said Torvalds made a totally unjustified
choice in adopting BitKeeper.  A bunch of us merely said he would live
to regret it.  ;->

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Re: [DNG] Is Void OK? Was: Keep it alive

[KatolaZ]

On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 10:18:24AM -0700, Rick Moen wrote:

[cut]

> 
> There are fully reasonable self-hosted, open source GitHub workalikes,
> such as GitLab.  Maybe VoidLinux should be setting one up and developing
> its own VCS and packaging architecture.
> 

I know it might seem a silly comment, but building and maintaining an
independent development infrastructure actually requires a
considerable amount of energy and time (and money). So I am not
surprised if a distro might decide to cut on the infra and focus only
on the development.

Nevertheless, I am firmly convinced that achieving infrastructural
independence (as Devuan has done in these years, thanks to the support
of many volunteers and donors) is the only way to guarantee a higher
success probability to a project. But for some reason this message
seems to be a hard one to convey to users and enthusiasts :-)

HND

KatolaZ

-- 
[ ~.,_  Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - Devuan -- Freaknet Medialab  ]  
[ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
[   @)   http://kalos.mine.nu ---  Devuan GNU + Linux User  ]
[ @@)  http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia --  GPG: 0B5F062F  ] 
[ (@@@)  Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ  ]


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Re: [DNG] Is Void OK? Was: Keep it alive

[Rick Moen]

Quoting KatolaZ (kato...@freaknet.org):

> I got a pm reply from Gottox, who said that their main problem at the
> moment seems to be re-acquiring access to the github account that
> contains all the packages. 

Maybe, the first step should be to learn the lesson 'Don't outsource
your development architecture to a proprietary sofware company that may
for reasons of its own become a problem to you.'

There are fully reasonable self-hosted, open source GitHub workalikes,
such as GitLab.  Maybe VoidLinux should be setting one up and developing
its own VCS and packaging architecture.

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Re: [DNG] Is Void OK? Was: Keep it alive

[KatolaZ]

On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 12:17:58PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Thu, 17 May 2018 11:16:50 +0100
> KatolaZ  wrote:
> 
> > https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/16/contributing_to_keep_small_linux_alive/
> > 
> > Very interesting piece on the importance of contributing to keep alive
> > your favourite distro. Well, Devuan is mentioned in the article among
> > the "larger" distros, but the reasoning still applies to us I think.
> 
> Wait a minute. Contributing is the minor message of the referenced
> link. The major message is that the Void Project Leader has apparently
> disappeared, as described here:
> 
> https://www.voidlinux.eu/news/2018/05/serious-issues.html
> 
> The voidlinux.eu domain is currently at risk, as is Github, and maybe
> the Void IRC channels.
> 
> What can we Void users do to help, during these challenging days?
> 

You should probably ask that question to the Void developers :-)

We actually reached out on the Void IRC channel a few days ago, saying
that we would be happy to help if needed. I got a pm reply from
Gottox, who said that their main problem at the moment seems to be
re-acquiring access to the github account that contains all the
packages. Unfortunately there is little we can do on that front, but I
really hope that they will find a way and continue with the
development ASAP.

Obviously, if anybody knows of ways in which we can help Void, well,
just shout.

HND

KatolaZ

-- 
[ ~.,_  Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - Devuan -- Freaknet Medialab  ]  
[ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
[   @)   http://kalos.mine.nu ---  Devuan GNU + Linux User  ]
[ @@)  http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia --  GPG: 0B5F062F  ] 
[ (@@@)  Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ  ]


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