Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On 11/6/20 11:08 AM, Simon Walter wrote: > I updated another field/site laptop yesterday and noticed (again) that > TB was not updated passed 68. My heart was glad. > > I want to thank the Devuan maintainers for making these kind of sane > choices. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Well, it was actually something else holding back TB 78. As soon as I installed zmap, which pulled in libjson-c3, TB was upgraded to 78. Appropriate pinning was necessary along with removing the LastVersion line in compatibility.ini in the profile dir. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=946588 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
I updated another field/site laptop yesterday and noticed (again) that TB was not updated passed 68. My heart was glad. I want to thank the Devuan maintainers for making these kind of sane choices. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 15:47:29 -0700 Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting John Crisp via Dng (dng@lists.dyne.org): > > [snip much-appreciated picture of behind-the-scenes management > folderol at Thunderbird Project:] > Thanks ;-) I have an alter ego that is on some lists as this ego (!) got banned some years back. I have had recent chats with one or two there who appraised me of a few things. > > The problem is decent alternatives are not great [...] > > Just in case people have lost track of this, the long-term nub of the > problem is: revenue model. > Always boils down to filthy lucre. > Firefox brought in money. Thunderbird did not. When all is said and > done, Mozilla Foundation is an appendage of Mozilla, Inc., which as a > for-profit corporation is bound to a depressing pursuit of quarterly > earnings targets as a primary objective. From the corporate > perspective, Thunderbird development resources are deadweight, a > dispensible community sponsorship that earns nothing. > Yes, as a corporate project TB was a drag to them. However, TB still receives a not insignificant income, almost exclusively from donations. The alleged reason for going corporate was they could "do things they couldn't as a NfP" Hmmm. Quite frankly the only thing I can see they can have is shares, dividends and pay people more money. I guess they are trying to establish themselves as a corporate entity to appeal more to businesses and be more 'business like' with support contracts or whatever. It'll probably end up as more jobs for the boys., he said cynically. The TB council is controlled by a few loyal MZ supporters (because it is EXTREMELY hard for anyone to actually get elected due to the qualifying requirements, and voters qualifying requirements), and the whole thing is tightly controlled by MZ themselves, despite them saying TB is a separate entity. It was MOZILLA employees that did the recent banning. Go figure. Note I believe there is a side story to be told about the recent Enigmail push but am not at liberty blah blah. Hey ho - what do I know? :-) pgpN6tyFbJFUl.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
Adam Borowski wrote: > -- and it's exclusively the former group that uses GPG. Thus, crap support > in Thunderbird is not a problem for me -- I have yet to see a GPG-signed > piece of mail. > not really... 15-20 years ago while working for a bank edp/it dpt, PGP was required almost for half the email volume. so it was/is not just a geeky thing, industry used it also.. using it back then with locked down corp outlook+pgp plugin.. i guess these days is even more broadly used in that sector.. (to hide their scam mostly :D ) lately even public sector required pgp encrypted emails for some transactions. also, lots of activists (since pre-snowden era) required GPG for internal coms + OTR for chats... Thunderbird+enigmail was/is the easier/free way for non-techy people to setup gpg.. lots of guides around, w/ https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org being most commonly known... (TB78 broke this..) so, maybe these are not the majority of email users, but certainly gpg is not exclusively used by a few geeks... just take a look at keyservers stats..: there's a few million keys already... and those are just a fraction of keys since not everyone uploads their keys.. 2c. d. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 02:46:37PM +0900, Simon Walter wrote: > On 2020-10-28 07:47, Rick Moen wrote: > > I continue to like projects that are limited in feature scope enough to > > not live or die by corporate underwriting. E.g., mutt continues to be > > maintainable by a small group of motivated developers. When I want it > > to be graphical, I run it in an xterm. ;-> > > I totally agree. That is one reason I thought TB was a good choice over > other, at the time, popular software such as Eudora and Outlook. That's because you're not the target audience of those three. They're not for hackers, but "normal" users. Of which there are two kinds: * business (managers, marketing, sales, ...) * home/non-office (a gamer teenager, a plumber, ...) The first group was (and still is) a juicy target for money-making, so IBM/Microsoft/... targetted them with comprehensive and intentionally incompatible with others office suites. What we consider breakage is not there because of stupidity, but is there by design. The second group would be salvageable, up to early '90s. With the diverse set of personal machines (Atari ST/Amiga/IBM PC/...), compatibility wasn't something that could be ignored, and despite duking out of various standards (like, above-ASCII encodings), people went a long way towards agreeing together (eg. in Poland the Mazovia encoding won, despite efforts by Microsoft -- but then got steamrolled out by Windows non-support). But then came Windows monopoly... In the meantime, people like me and you stuck to pine/elm/mutt/..., and RFC-compliant etiquette. These groups of people and tools are incompatible enough that I use two clients: * mutt for free software work * thunderbird[1] for contacts with people in suits[2] -- and it's exclusively the former group that uses GPG. Thus, crap support in Thunderbird is not a problem for me -- I have yet to see a GPG-signed piece of mail. Meow! [1]. To be honest, 99% Outlook on a locked-down company laptop. [2]. Who at my work wear sane clothing, but it's not about clothes... -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ * *** ⠈⠳⣄ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On 2020-10-28 08:20, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Dimitris T. via Dng (dng@lists.dyne.org): > >> still recommending TB to clients/people though... > > In case it's useful, I keep a list of all known MUAs for Linux, here: > http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Mail/muas.html > Necessary disclaimer: As anyone who's ever kept alive over decades a > complex Web page on an evolving subject knows, it absolutely needs > updating and maintenance. I just don't currently know what's missing > and needing fixing, and won't know until I can next waste a day > re-surveying the field, fixing bitrot, etc. > > I can't remember exactly why I started that page, but sometimes in the > past it's been something like hearing, once too often, 'There aren't > enough mail clients for Linux', and wanting to rejoin something like > 'Really, 123 isn't enough? How many do _you_ use, from day to day?' > Nice list. Thanks! ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On 2020-10-28 07:47, Rick Moen wrote: ... > I continue to like projects that are limited in feature scope enough to > not live or die by corporate underwriting. E.g., mutt continues to be > maintainable by a small group of motivated developers. When I want it > to be graphical, I run it in an xterm. ;-> > I totally agree. That is one reason I thought TB was a good choice over other, at the time, popular software such as Eudora and Outlook. It was a safe bet, but maybe I should start looking into a new "PIM" infrastructure. I'll keep dovecot and postfix, but I'm not sure about the rest. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On 27/10/2020 22:47, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting John Crisp via Dng (dng@lists.dyne.org): > > [snip much-appreciated picture of behind-the-scenes management > folderol at Thunderbird Project:] > >> The problem is decent alternatives are not great [...] > Just in case people have lost track of this, the long-term nub of the > problem is: revenue model. > > Firefox brought in money. Thunderbird did not. Yes, this was certainly, as I understood it, an issue at the time that Thunderbird was cut loose. Mozilla was described as "paying a tax to support Thunderbird". At the time, I seem to recall (from mail list discussions) that one of the things that the then Thunderbird council had to sort out with Mozilla was the proportion of donations that came in via Thunderbird-related links and was thus due to Thunderbird. However, things do seem to have been sorted out. According to recent statements on tb-planning, MZLA Corp (the corporate owner of Thunderbird) now has around 15 employees! That's some real money there. Presumably the income that allows for 15 employees is derived partly from donations and partly from Thunderbird's own commission income from email signup links. One might cynically observe that now it seems that money is there, Thunderbird is back in the Mozilla fold. ;-) -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
Well said to all of that. On 26/10/2020 17:10, John Crisp via Dng wrote: > > (why DID they need to make it TB > corporation and for not a NFP?). As far as I am aware, this question has not been answered in public (although it could simply be that it was the least-friction way forward). The corporation now has about 15 employees (according to statements on tb-planning) and so there is not-insignificant income coming in now. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
It seems we're drifting away from the main subject. Count me in! Of course, my own way of eliminating GMail problems is: Don't use GMail, and you thereby magically avoid GMail problems. ;-> It's 2020. Snowden leaks started in 2013. . (Also, it seems to be stylized as Gmail, not GMail) It's increasingly hard to exchange e-mail between lesser known providers or even self-hosted servers and GMail accounts. ? If your emails are being refused by others, including major email hosters, I would kindly suggest you check you got at least correct SPF + DKIM entries. You can throw DMARC into the mix if you wish so, too. This does _not_ accord with my experience. In my experience, if you run a spam-clean and RFC-compliant SMTP operation and take modest anti-forgery measures (such as my domains' strongly asserted SPF RR), your mail domain will have no problem bidirectionally communicating with GMail / Googlemail -- without spamboxing or teergrubing, etc. I keep monitoring this situation, and it may change, but that is still my honest assessment from many decades of self-hosted SMTP smarthost operation. Yup. Own mail server here. The last problem I had was my server refused an email from some classic corporate suit-bearer (their line of work being IT)... because it was too big. Yup, Postfix's default envelope size limit is 1024 bytes (which is neither SI - 10.24 MB - or IEC - 9.77 MiB). You read correctly: someone tried to send me a >10 MiB email, mixing up email with a decent out-of-band file-transfer technology. (For the full story, the attachement was some popular slide-producing proprietary format. Had to accept 30+ MiB for that crap to arrive in my mailbox. Switched the parameter back to the default value right afterwards and never ran into such a problem anymore, with anyone.). I'd like to echo Rick's observation: Running a mail server is still totally doable. I say still, because the viability depends on there being a nontrivial pool of mailbox owner operated mail hosts. And it is bigger than mail - a good and free internet depends on reachable, static IPs with proper DNS names being held by the general population. So it is truly worth it to spend a few dollars a month to get a VPS/VM/staticVPN and do something with it. Like muscle and brain-cells, those things can disappear if you don't use them. Self-hosting, self-hosting, self-hosting (am I mimicking someone crazy shouting "deveopers" on stage?). Seriously: self-hosting. Oh, and cipher + forward-secrecy + out-of-band channels whenever required. It's saddening to assess how little is known by the general public (including people who actually work on technical matters in IT) about key technologies, like DNS (the mother/father of all) or email. One of my crusades for years: Yes, '+' is a valid email address character, please stop copy-pasting the same regular expression which denies it. A tiny glimpse on how inadequate mail-related Web forms usually are. Internet should not rely on a pool of self-hosted services. It shall become the Internet again, as in inter-net, inter-network, ie a myriad of hosts which are just that: hosts. Everyone hosting... his/her own services. Some technology has been there for 40 years now, and it's still deemed 'too complex' by people who actually don't care (but will never admit it with those words). Cue consumerism. Regarding mail: I have this hope that a personal mail server will become proper status symbol, and maybe even a heirloom. Rick will remember a mailing list called linux-elitists@ which didn't allow certain User-agents to subscribe. It would be nifty if there were a mailing list, with another pretentious title - say inet-lords@ or net-kings@ which only allowed posting from addresses starting with admin@ or, even better, abuse@ as these addresses are reserved and unlikely to be given out by providers... IIRC, some FreeBSD (NetBSD?) IRC channels do that with IRC clients. Apart from the fun of technically doing it, it might be seen as having fun at the expense of others, showing self-righteousness & definitely throwing off those who are different. Not very inclusive not showing social qualities like empathy. And definitely polluting the signal of technology serving (human) lives, not reverse. This kind of jokes works inside an air-tight group. Bernard (Beer) Rosset https://rosset.net/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
Hello > I believe you mean (specifically) cut off from access to GMail > send/receive access by GMail users, as an alternative to using GMail's > proprietary WebUI. Yes, that's very strongly my understanding, too. > > Of course, my own way of eliminating GMail problems is: Don't use > GMail, and you thereby magically avoid GMail problems. ;-> If it isn't clear yet: There is another risk of using a web mail interface - the automatic spell checker in those things means that surveillance capitalists have the cover to collect your typing at the keystroke level and possibly build up a profile of your typing - err, fingerprint. Which, like every biometric, is difficult to clear and reset. > > It's increasingly hard to exchange e-mail between lesser known providers > > or even self-hosted servers and GMail accounts. > > This does _not_ accord with my experience. In my experience, if you run > a spam-clean and RFC-compliant SMTP operation and take modest > anti-forgery measures (such as my domains' strongly asserted SPF RR), > your mail domain will have no problem bidirectionally communicating with > GMail / Googlemail -- without spamboxing or teergrubing, etc. > > I keep monitoring this situation, and it may change, but that is still > my honest assessment from many decades of self-hosted SMTP smarthost > operation. I'd like to echo Rick's observation: Running a mail server is still totally doable. I say still, because the viability depends on there being a nontrivial pool of mailbox owner operated mail hosts. And it is bigger than mail - a good and free internet depends on reachable, static IPs with proper DNS names being held by the general population. So it is truly worth it to spend a few dollars a month to get a VPS/VM/staticVPN and do something with it. Like muscle and brain-cells, those things can disappear if you don't use them. And, like Devuan, this isn't a rear-guard action only: There are utterly delightful sections of a better internet being built - seek them out, and help. For instance, the gemini project (gemini.circumlunar.space) is doing awesome work to shrink the metasizing mass that is the web-browser down to something treatable. Here is a very simple gemini browser URL='gemini://gus.guru/known-hosts' HST=$(echo $URL | cut -f3 -d/) (echo -en "$URL\r\n" ; sleep 3) | openssl s_client -quiet -no_ign_eof -connect "$HST:1965" -servername "$HST" Regarding mail: I have this hope that a personal mail server will become proper status symbol, and maybe even a heirloom. Rick will remember a mailing list called linux-elitists@ which didn't allow certain User-agents to subscribe. It would be nifty if there were a mailing list, with another pretentious title - say inet-lords@ or net-kings@ which only allowed posting from addresses starting with admin@ or, even better, abuse@ as these addresses are reserved and unlikely to be given out by providers... regards marc ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
Quoting Lars Nood??n via Dng (dng@lists.dyne.org): > Google appears to be doing what it can to cut off not only MUAs like ^^ > Thunderbird but also competing mail providers. ^^^ I believe you mean (specifically) cut off from access to GMail send/receive access by GMail users, as an alternative to using GMail's proprietary WebUI. Yes, that's very strongly my understanding, too. Of course, my own way of eliminating GMail problems is: Don't use GMail, and you thereby magically avoid GMail problems. ;-> > It's increasingly hard to exchange e-mail between lesser known providers > or even self-hosted servers and GMail accounts. This does _not_ accord with my experience. In my experience, if you run a spam-clean and RFC-compliant SMTP operation and take modest anti-forgery measures (such as my domains' strongly asserted SPF RR), your mail domain will have no problem bidirectionally communicating with GMail / Googlemail -- without spamboxing or teergrubing, etc. I keep monitoring this situation, and it may change, but that is still my honest assessment from many decades of self-hosted SMTP smarthost operation. -- Cheers, "I suppose the process of acceptance will pass through the usual Rick Moen four stages: (i) This is worthless nonsense; (ii) This is an rick@linux interesting, but perverse, point of view; (iii) This is true, mafia.com but quite unimportant; (iv) I always said so." -- JBS Haldane ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On 10/28/20 12:47 AM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting John Crisp via Dng (dng@lists.dyne.org): > > [snip much-appreciated picture of behind-the-scenes management > folderol at Thunderbird Project:] > >> The problem is decent alternatives are not great [...] > > Just in case people have lost track of this, the long-term nub of the > problem is: revenue model. > > Firefox brought in money. Thunderbird did not. When all is said and > done, Mozilla Foundation is an appendage of Mozilla, Inc., which as a > for-profit corporation is bound to a depressing pursuit of quarterly > earnings targets as a primary objective. From the corporate > perspective, Thunderbird development resources are deadweight, a > dispensible community sponsorship that earns nothing. > ... The risk is that SMTP/IMAPS become deprecated and/or coimpletely marginalized. Google appears to be doing what it can to cut off not only MUAs like Thunderbird but also competing mail providers. At least that is the impression I get. It's really hard to connect Thunderbird to GMail. You also get a lot of messages on an ongoing basis instructing how to turn off/block IMAPS, worded with scare words about 'security' and without mentioning either protocols or MUAs. If you mess with the accounts interface it is very easy to accidentally turn off Thunderbird / IMAPS access but very difficult to find how to allow it again. etc. Thunderbird probably cuts into their income. I suspect that when the microsoft proxies are forced to end their antitrust actions against Alphabet[1], Google with go ahead and finish capturing the market for e-mail and deprecate SMTP/IMAP. It's increasingly hard to exchange e-mail between lesser known providers or even self-hosted servers and GMail accounts. Getting sorted into spam is one method, but increasingly the messages are tagged by Google as being dodgy or unsafe. This isn't meant to be a rant about Google / Alphabet, it is meant to bring attention to the risk of losing e-mail globally and having it replaced by a single company's proprietary alternative. /Lars (writing hypocritically from a gmail account) [1] Both can be true. Proxies are agitating against Google to take heat off of other companies, while at the same time Google /does/ appear to be abusing its monopoly positions in several markets. The relevant one here is e-mail. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
Quoting Dimitris T. via Dng (dng@lists.dyne.org): > still recommending TB to clients/people though... In case it's useful, I keep a list of all known MUAs for Linux, here: http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Mail/muas.html Necessary disclaimer: As anyone who's ever kept alive over decades a complex Web page on an evolving subject knows, it absolutely needs updating and maintenance. I just don't currently know what's missing and needing fixing, and won't know until I can next waste a day re-surveying the field, fixing bitrot, etc. I can't remember exactly why I started that page, but sometimes in the past it's been something like hearing, once too often, 'There aren't enough mail clients for Linux', and wanting to rejoin something like 'Really, 123 isn't enough? How many do _you_ use, from day to day?' -- Cheers, Peter G. Neumann: "Mars has been a tough target." Rick Moen Harlan Rosenthal: "That's because the Martians keep r...@linuxmafia.com shooting things down." RISKS Digest, v. 20, #59&60 McQ! (4x80) ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
Quoting John Crisp via Dng (dng@lists.dyne.org): [snip much-appreciated picture of behind-the-scenes management folderol at Thunderbird Project:] > The problem is decent alternatives are not great [...] Just in case people have lost track of this, the long-term nub of the problem is: revenue model. Firefox brought in money. Thunderbird did not. When all is said and done, Mozilla Foundation is an appendage of Mozilla, Inc., which as a for-profit corporation is bound to a depressing pursuit of quarterly earnings targets as a primary objective. From the corporate perspective, Thunderbird development resources are deadweight, a dispensible community sponsorship that earns nothing. I continue to like projects that are limited in feature scope enough to not live or die by corporate underwriting. E.g., mutt continues to be maintainable by a small group of motivated developers. When I want it to be graphical, I run it in an xterm. ;-> -- Cheers, Rick Moen"The first rule of Dunning-Kruger club is r...@linuxmafia.com you don't know you're in Dunning-Kruger club." McQ! (4x80) -- @drankturpentine (Dennis Detwiller) ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On 10/26/20 5:07 AM, Dimitris via Dng wrote: forgot to mention seamonkey (https://www.seamonkey-project.org/). -- also these days, webmail/nextcloud can be used as groupware too, with calendars/contacts included.. webmail gpg support is very rare (for a pretty good reason imo), but mailpile can be used instead... I use SOGo. Though, I *also* need an email client. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 01:15:47 + Mark Rousell wrote: > On 25/10/2020 18:20, Ludovic Bellière wrote: > > Hello Mark, it seems that you are highly concerned with the path > > Thunderbird is taking for the future. Might I suggest to you, and > > everyone following this exchange for that matter, to head over the > > [tb- planning][1] mailing list. It's purpose is to, quote: > > > > 1. *Offer an easy, transparent venue for getting constructive, > > Thunderbird-related work done.* > > 2. *Offering community members the chance to post until they get > > satisfaction about their concerns.* > > > > I am pretty sure that if you were to gently explain your concern and > > future perceived issue, somebody would gladly take the time to > > answer you. It is not, however, a place to request supports. > > Thanks. However, I am very familiar with tb-planning (and other > Thunderbird mail lists) and have been a member of and contributor to > tb-planning for over five years. I have reached my current views > despite (or perhaps because of) what I heave learned on tb-planning > and other TB-related mail lists/groups. > > One thing that I have learned is that (in my experience and as far as > I can tell) expressing views that are not in accordance with those of > the leadership is completely pointless. Nothing I can say will have > any influence, benefit or use whatsoever. > +1 to this and your previous comments about TB, developers, governance, and the insane blind leap to follow Firefox and destroy the plugin system, which for many was the best thing about TB. TB is really becoming like an Electron app for Firefox - just a browser with a few bells and whistles - you may as well use webmail. The greatest irony is them wanting to ban all popups and 'use tabs' for everything grr. Shame they allow little balloons and dropdowns and notifiers and loads of other nonsense everywhere in browsers, and allow webdevs to throw whatever js boxes they like on screen. Hypocrisy IMHO. Yes, forking the browser side would have been difficult for maintenance, but they made no attempt to have any sort of reasoned debate about any of it - "our way or the highway". TB Planning is heavily censored and any opinions that contradict the leaders are shot down rapidly. Council members have to sign an NDA that has not been published (why DID they need to make it TB corporation and for not a NFP?). Mozilla themselves are ban any TB dissent - including just banning a well known community member from ALL online SM channels relating to Mozilla, even apparently ones they do not control, for some apparent minor misdemeanour they didn't like.. the place has gone properly batsh1t mad. The problem is decent alternatives are not great - it is the only reason they still hold the share that they do. But quite simply, without the plugins we may as well just use Evolution. As such we will stay on an old version with working plugins doing what we need and will do for the foreseeable future. It does all WE need. We'll move on when we change things in due course. Personally I would not now recommend TB under any circumstances, having previously recommended it since I started using at around v1. No wonder the world is moving to instant messaging - and they are so keen to get their 'chat' app in there. Sad times indeed. pgpGByocXfEFT.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
Keep in mind that there are other interests at play, the "leadership" has to content with your requests and other's. The one thing that annoys me is the handling of OpenPGP and keys. I cannot update my keys nor sync them with the ones present on my system. Which is highly annoying since I sign my git commits using the same identity. However the way it is implemented in TB seems to makes sense when in an enterprise environment and dealing with only emails. Thus my understanding is that Thunderbird cannot content with everybody, as you point out, due to a lack of means. My personal issue with Thunderbird is solely the OpenPGP situation, and I wonder what issues you yourself have. Note: I have been trying Evolution. While it has all the required features, I dislike the interface. Probably due to the GTK3 theming, it just doesn't feel good. On 26/10/20 02:15, Mark Rousell wrote: > Thanks. However, I am very familiar with tb-planning (and other > Thunderbird mail lists) and have been a member of and contributor to > tb-planning for over five years. I have reached my current views despite > (or perhaps because of) what I heave learned on tb-planning and other > TB-related mail lists/groups. > > One thing that I have learned is that (in my experience and as far as I > can tell) expressing views that are not in accordance with those of the > leadership is completely pointless. Nothing I can say will have any > influence, benefit or use whatsoever. > > I understand the direction that the current leadership of the > Thunderbird project is taking and their reasons for it and I do not > agree with them, neither in substance nor in operational style. I do not > think that Thunderbird will benefit overall in the longer run with the > current direction. > > I understand and appreciate the difficulties that a project such as > Thunderbird (with a lot of legacy code) faces but understanding both the > difficulties and the leadership direction and style do not mean that I > agree with them. > > For these (and other) reasons, I still read all of the > Thunderbird-related mail lists but no longer contribute or comment to them. > > As I said in my earlier message, I am sticking with Thunderbird only > until I can identify a better alternative. It would be churlish of me to > claim that nothing that the current project is doing is of value and so > I say no such thing (i.e. some work undoubtedly will be of positive > benefit) but, all the same, I do not think that Thunderbird as a fully > featured thick mail client has a secure future as things now stand. And > so I am looking for viable alternatives for both myself and my clients. > OpenPGP_0xBC2BF0C6886EB132.asc Description: application/pgp-keys OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On 25/10/2020 18:20, Ludovic Bellière wrote: > Hello Mark, it seems that you are highly concerned with the path > Thunderbird is taking for the future. Might I suggest to you, and > everyone following this exchange for that matter, to head over the [tb- > planning][1] mailing list. It's purpose is to, quote: > > 1. *Offer an easy, transparent venue for getting constructive, > Thunderbird-related work done.* > 2. *Offering community members the chance to post until they get > satisfaction about their concerns.* > > I am pretty sure that if you were to gently explain your concern and > future perceived issue, somebody would gladly take the time to answer > you. It is not, however, a place to request supports. Thanks. However, I am very familiar with tb-planning (and other Thunderbird mail lists) and have been a member of and contributor to tb-planning for over five years. I have reached my current views despite (or perhaps because of) what I heave learned on tb-planning and other TB-related mail lists/groups. One thing that I have learned is that (in my experience and as far as I can tell) expressing views that are not in accordance with those of the leadership is completely pointless. Nothing I can say will have any influence, benefit or use whatsoever. I understand the direction that the current leadership of the Thunderbird project is taking and their reasons for it and I do not agree with them, neither in substance nor in operational style. I do not think that Thunderbird will benefit overall in the longer run with the current direction. I understand and appreciate the difficulties that a project such as Thunderbird (with a lot of legacy code) faces but understanding both the difficulties and the leadership direction and style do not mean that I agree with them. For these (and other) reasons, I still read all of the Thunderbird-related mail lists but no longer contribute or comment to them. As I said in my earlier message, I am sticking with Thunderbird only until I can identify a better alternative. It would be churlish of me to claim that nothing that the current project is doing is of value and so I say no such thing (i.e. some work undoubtedly will be of positive benefit) but, all the same, I do not think that Thunderbird as a fully featured thick mail client has a secure future as things now stand. And so I am looking for viable alternatives for both myself and my clients. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On 10/25/20 10:07 PM, Dimitris via Dng wrote: but mailpile can be used instead correction: mailvelope (https://www.mailvelope.com/en) OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
forgot to mention seamonkey (https://www.seamonkey-project.org/). -- also these days, webmail/nextcloud can be used as groupware too, with calendars/contacts included.. webmail gpg support is very rare (for a pretty good reason imo), but mailpile can be used instead... d On 10/25/20 9:56 AM, Dimitris T. via Dng wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Hey, On Sun, 2020-10-25 at 15:25 +0900, Simon Walter wrote: I am particularly interested in a "groupware" type of solution. I am currently using SOGo. I am not stuck on that though. Things like CalDAV, CardDAV, etc., are useful for me as I like to keep my contacts and schedule synced across devices. from my experience, evolution can be a complete replacement for thunderbird as groupware... caldav/carddav/pgp are included by default. currently i use tbsync & other extensions in TB to sync with own nextcloud.. (only filelink extension isn't available in evolution) still recommending TB to clients/people though... cross OS compatibility and extremely simple moving/backing up TB profiles between systems being the main reason, and autoconfig accounts when supported by server, another... (like outlook does...). my 2c, d -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEECppUFUF7C9a+eth/9jQAR3Vpa4YFAl+VL8kACgkQ9jQAR3Vp a4Zvfw//fFs4gc7BfIoLfiD8ye4aa+KvvjhMHzTvgv4rfrxunGI6KK1Ea4iMNFTR EXTvapoEkenL4DS76WSm/T9PWCbUTACRNIl1vMU7LpA2uzi5SyBe2MXdtxMnRTxz rIZ++/JPRClwZIo/qfgxecjAruoyuU3RWDeD1vXGxmp9tXHELKqKq0qRt/1NXJeb PJbkSyf1anZB7oBne2n97p/DPer+RBM4K0nMVGwM4ah4YQfIX+gZOFV27nW9OWxd LDAxoBUrzZVDXSAuL4J55lYbIVfi/dN/aye3KWugAGbFe4g05WIVh5BKIMJxYoIj MuybSvcjc2mYYx4jV7UA5rQSLf/5o+BhQMR9kTIhY3tnSMf8pTG90do87L41FEyd gmriOOtT09Wxb56d0vl0JJprwmu2nUIFvYmWZ/t60QY9eMSzZDi8WE39ktE8hTOb AAzAzBbXa9dDgSf1cj54LoQeZeoW09clpZDPXzEPNK8ynlH/kaqk00GRVipeQMBz eGT/8GN+e6dN978wsrAbd2MAX8Vf7MtP8di4gUtqt6zCwTIboZCjibk5ckJr7uJo kYSyGY2Jol6OLVLfYzgHWsXVdsZJEg7rng7me0noyi6KCtFHCdrT2TnnqfGX4b8+ 8ON1sKSXlkph9Xm6bDoWYfufcT6mjlwjVRuTS5fuUxg1YfXRlNA= =etPK -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
Hello Mark, it seems that you are highly concerned with the path Thunderbird is taking for the future. Might I suggest to you, and everyone following this exchange for that matter, to head over the [tb- planning][1] mailing list. It's purpose is to, quote: 1. *Offer an easy, transparent venue for getting constructive, Thunderbird-related work done.* 2. *Offering community members the chance to post until they get satisfaction about their concerns.* I am pretty sure that if you were to gently explain your concern and future perceived issue, somebody would gladly take the time to answer you. It is not, however, a place to request supports. Take care, Ludovic [1]: https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/tb-planning On dim, 2020-10-25 at 15:49 +, Mark Rousell wrote: > On 25/10/2020 06:33, Simon Walter wrote: > > On 10/25/20 7:20 AM, Mark Rousell wrote: > > > The reason for this change is that Thunderbird is deprecating all > > > its old addons (the entire ecosystem) and Enigmail won't work on > > > the new Thunderbird. It's less than satisfactory. > > > > Yes, I understand the reasons. They may make sense for FF. Though, > > I don't know if they apply to TB. > > I do not think they make sense for Thunderbird. Thunderbird was in > effect railroaded into it because it cannot part ways with whatever > the Firefox project does with Gecko (or whatever it's called now). I > view this as a bug, not a feature. > I understand that the Thunderbird project lacked resources to go its > own way (i.e. forking Gecko to be able to support their own addon > ecosystem) but I still view this as severely damaging to > Thunderbird's future and, as such, is a systemic problem. It is > destroying one of Thunderbird's USPs (i.e. fully capable addons). > > That's interesting and may be a good thing. I should do more > > investigation. I recommend TB to most of my clients. I want to make > > sure that is still a good recommendation. > > I'm in the same position with respect to recommending to clients. I > think that Thunderbird is still a good recommendation pro tem but I > do not see this as a long term situation. I do not think that the > current leadership's direction is the right one in order for > Thunderbird to be able to maintain unique USPs over potentially > competing mail and calendar clients. > As an aside, I don't think that Firefox has a great future either. In > summary, it seems to me that it's being converted more and more into > a Chrome clone and if users have a choice between Chrome and a > Chrome-alike then they simply seem to choose Chrome. Firefox has lost > its USPs (not least its earlier fully-capable addon ecosystem), and > Thunderbird under its current leadership (and, I admit, with its > current resources) seems to be inexorably following. > So, I'm sticking with Thunderbird for now until I identify a better > alternative. The loss of the old addons ecosystem and, in particular, > the loss of Enigmail and replacement with a less capable internal > OpenPGP implementation were the final turning point for me (together > with planned UI changes that are not so appropriate in my opinion for > desktop use and with general project leadership quality). > The replacement (for me) for Thunderbird might not yet exist but I am > confident that something will emerge. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On 25/10/2020 06:33, Simon Walter wrote: > On 10/25/20 7:20 AM, Mark Rousell wrote: >> >> The reason for this change is that Thunderbird is deprecating all its >> old addons (the entire ecosystem) and Enigmail won't work on the new >> Thunderbird. It's less than satisfactory. > > Yes, I understand the reasons. They may make sense for FF. Though, I > don't know if they apply to TB. I do not think they make sense for Thunderbird. Thunderbird was in effect railroaded into it because it cannot part ways with whatever the Firefox project does with Gecko (or whatever it's called now). I view this as a bug, not a feature. I understand that the Thunderbird project lacked resources to go its own way (i.e. forking Gecko to be able to support their own addon ecosystem) but I still view this as severely damaging to Thunderbird's future and, as such, is a systemic problem. It is destroying one of Thunderbird's USPs (i.e. fully capable addons). > That's interesting and may be a good thing. I should do more > investigation. I recommend TB to most of my clients. I want to make > sure that is still a good recommendation. I'm in the same position with respect to recommending to clients. I think that Thunderbird is still a good recommendation pro tem but I do not see this as a long term situation. I do not think that the current leadership's direction is the right one in order for Thunderbird to be able to maintain unique USPs over potentially competing mail and calendar clients. As an aside, I don't think that Firefox has a great future either. In summary, it seems to me that it's being converted more and more into a Chrome clone and if users have a choice between Chrome and a Chrome-alike then they simply seem to choose Chrome. Firefox has lost its USPs (not least its earlier fully-capable addon ecosystem), and Thunderbird under its current leadership (and, I admit, with its current resources) seems to be inexorably following. So, I'm sticking with Thunderbird for now until I identify a better alternative. The loss of the old addons ecosystem and, in particular, the loss of Enigmail and replacement with a less capable internal OpenPGP implementation were the final turning point for me (together with planned UI changes that are not so appropriate in my opinion for desktop use and with general project leadership quality). The replacement (for me) for Thunderbird might not yet exist but I am confident that something will emerge. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Hey, On Sun, 2020-10-25 at 15:25 +0900, Simon Walter wrote: > > I am particularly interested in a "groupware" type of solution. I am > > currently using SOGo. I am not stuck on that though. Things like > CalDAV, > > CardDAV, etc., are useful for me as I like to keep my contacts and > > schedule synced across devices. from my experience, evolution can be a complete replacement for thunderbird as groupware... caldav/carddav/pgp are included by default. currently i use tbsync & other extensions in TB to sync with own nextcloud.. (only filelink extension isn't available in evolution) still recommending TB to clients/people though... cross OS compatibility and extremely simple moving/backing up TB profiles between systems being the main reason, and autoconfig accounts when supported by server, another... (like outlook does...). my 2c, d -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEECppUFUF7C9a+eth/9jQAR3Vpa4YFAl+VL8kACgkQ9jQAR3Vp a4Zvfw//fFs4gc7BfIoLfiD8ye4aa+KvvjhMHzTvgv4rfrxunGI6KK1Ea4iMNFTR EXTvapoEkenL4DS76WSm/T9PWCbUTACRNIl1vMU7LpA2uzi5SyBe2MXdtxMnRTxz rIZ++/JPRClwZIo/qfgxecjAruoyuU3RWDeD1vXGxmp9tXHELKqKq0qRt/1NXJeb PJbkSyf1anZB7oBne2n97p/DPer+RBM4K0nMVGwM4ah4YQfIX+gZOFV27nW9OWxd LDAxoBUrzZVDXSAuL4J55lYbIVfi/dN/aye3KWugAGbFe4g05WIVh5BKIMJxYoIj MuybSvcjc2mYYx4jV7UA5rQSLf/5o+BhQMR9kTIhY3tnSMf8pTG90do87L41FEyd gmriOOtT09Wxb56d0vl0JJprwmu2nUIFvYmWZ/t60QY9eMSzZDi8WE39ktE8hTOb AAzAzBbXa9dDgSf1cj54LoQeZeoW09clpZDPXzEPNK8ynlH/kaqk00GRVipeQMBz eGT/8GN+e6dN978wsrAbd2MAX8Vf7MtP8di4gUtqt6zCwTIboZCjibk5ckJr7uJo kYSyGY2Jol6OLVLfYzgHWsXVdsZJEg7rng7me0noyi6KCtFHCdrT2TnnqfGX4b8+ 8ON1sKSXlkph9Xm6bDoWYfufcT6mjlwjVRuTS5fuUxg1YfXRlNA= =etPK -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On 10/25/20 7:20 AM, Mark Rousell wrote: On 23/10/2020 08:04, Simon Walter wrote: Has any of you TB users (assuming there are any here} done this migration? How is the new shiny? Is it fine? Shall I forget about TB? Any suggestions of what could replace it? I'm not in a hurry to do it. I want to let the bugs get very thoroughly sorted out first. I suppose I can stick to 68 for a while yet. The reason for this change is that Thunderbird is deprecating all its old addons (the entire ecosystem) and Enigmail won't work on the new Thunderbird. It's less than satisfactory. Yes, I understand the reasons. They may make sense for FF. Though, I don't know if they apply to TB. Note that Thunderbird is no longer being developed in-house by Mozilla. They cast it adrift several years ago for development by the community. For several years nothing much happened but, more recently, Thunderbird's structure has been formalised in a corporation that is now a wholly owned subsidiary of Mozilla Foundation. If you think this sounds like Mozilla are still developing it I'd understand but, in fact, it is now separate and has its own governing council. Where the corporate leadership come from I am less than clear. That's interesting and may be a good thing. I should do more investigation. I recommend TB to most of my clients. I want to make sure that is still a good recommendation. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On 10/24/20 7:03 AM, Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..heh, I've used Claws for over 18 years now, ever since it was known as Sylpheed version 0.7.2 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i586-pc-linux-gnu), never really looked back, it's email the way email was meant to be. :o) Oh it's Sylpheed. I used that at one time when I had an old machine. I will have a look at Claws. I am particularly interested in a "groupware" type of solution. I am currently using SOGo. I am not stuck on that though. Things like CalDAV, CardDAV, etc., are useful for me as I like to keep my contacts and schedule synced across devices. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On 23/10/2020 15:44, fsmithred via Dng wrote: > >> Has any of you TB users (assuming there are any here} done this migration? >> How is the new shiny? Is it fine? Shall I forget about TB? Any suggestions >> of what could replace it? > Nope. This is the first I've heard of it. One really needs to keep track of the various Thunderbird mail lists/groups for news like this. As someone who watches the whole thing fairly closely, it's actually quite hard to keep track of the changes. However, this deprecation of old addons, which is what is forcing the loss of Enigmail, which in turn is what is forcing Thunderbird to take on OpenPGP encryption internally, has been publicly know for about a year. See here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/pipermail/enigmail-users_enigmail.net/2019-October/005493.html > This is not the first I've heard > of problems with enigmail. Over the past 5 years or so, it seems like it > only works about half the time. And I mean it goes months without being > available for installation. For the avoidance of doubt, this is *not* a problem with Enigmail. Enigmail continues to work fine in earlier versions of Thunderbird. (As an aside, I don't recognise your negative perception of Enigmail. I've use it for years, I don't know how long, and I've always found it reliable and useful. If it was unavailable for installation then that would very likely be a problem with Mozilla's addon server, not Enigmail's fault). The reason for this change is that Thunderbird is deprecating all its old addons (the entire ecosystem) in favour of WebExtension-based addons and Enigmail won't work on the new Thunderbird. Thus Thunderbird has to take over OpenPGP encryption internally. Disclaimer: I say all of the above as a very long time user of Thunderbird who is (a) not happy with the direction in which Thunderbird is now being taken and (b) who is not impressed with the outward appearance of the style of governance of the project. To be fair, whether or not it would be possible to continue Thunderbird development in any other way with currently available resources is questionable. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On 23/10/2020 08:04, Simon Walter wrote: > Hi all, > > Yes, I use TB. Please excuse me for living. > > I am wondering how other TB and GPG users are dealing with: > https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:OpenPGP:Migration-From-Enigmail > > From what I understand, I now have to maintain two copies of my key > rings: the regular one and the one *inside* TB. I believe that it is possible to continue using GnuPG with Thunderbird's new OpenPGP implementation using a smartcard. Have a look here: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:OpenPGP:Smartcards It *might* be possible to modify this approach to use GnuPG without a smartcard under the new Thunderbird (version 78 onwards). > Somehow this smells like maybe someone didn't read Superiority or they > just hate their users and want them to go away. You're not the only one to come to this conclusion, or something like it. > Has any of you TB users (assuming there are any here} done this > migration? How is the new shiny? Is it fine? Shall I forget about TB? > Any suggestions of what could replace it? I'm not in a hurry to do it. I want to let the bugs get very thoroughly sorted out first. The reason for this change is that Thunderbird is deprecating all its old addons (the entire ecosystem) and Enigmail won't work on the new Thunderbird. It's less than satisfactory. > Though, I want to consider alternatives as, I somehow don't trust > Mozilla ever since they became SJ warring virtue signalers. Sure, it > was a while ago. I find it hard to move on, which, like many of you, > is why I don't like it when software changes. Note that Thunderbird is no longer being developed in-house by Mozilla. They cast it adrift several years ago for development by the community. For several years nothing much happened but, more recently, Thunderbird's structure has been formalised in a corporation that is now a wholly owned subsidiary of Mozilla Foundation. If you think this sounds like Mozilla are still developing it I'd understand but, in fact, it is now separate and has its own governing council. Where the corporate leadership come from I am less than clear. Disclaimer: I say all of the above as a very long time user of Thunderbird who is (a) not happy with the direction in which Thunderbird is now being taken and (b) who is not impressed with the outward appearance of the style of governance of the project. Whether or not it would be possible to continue Thunderbird development in any other way with currently available resources is questionable. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On Fri, 23 Oct 2020 10:44:37 -0400, fsmithred wrote in message <91d8f15b-eec8-9a76-0aaa-b987fec03...@gmail.com>: > On 10/23/20 3:04 AM, Simon Walter wrote: > > > From what I understand, I now have to maintain two copies of my key > > rings: the regular one and the one *inside* TB. > > > > Hm.. I was already a little nervous about keeping one copy of the > keyring on the hard drive. > > > > > Has any of you TB users (assuming there are any here} done this > > migration? How is the new shiny? Is it fine? Shall I forget about > > TB? Any suggestions of what could replace it? > > Nope. This is the first I've heard of it. This is not the first I've > heard of problems with enigmail. Over the past 5 years or so, it > seems like it only works about half the time. And I mean it goes > months without being available for installation. > > I do still use Thunderbird for my mail, but a few months ago I > installed claws mail on my laptop just so I could send an encrypted > email. It works fine there. I might eventually switch over to using > claws full-time. ..heh, I've used Claws for over 18 years now, ever since it was known as Sylpheed version 0.7.2 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i586-pc-linux-gnu), never really looked back, it's email the way email was meant to be. :o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On 10/23/20 3:04 AM, Simon Walter wrote: > From what I understand, I now have to maintain two copies of my key rings: > the regular one and the one *inside* TB. > Hm.. I was already a little nervous about keeping one copy of the keyring on the hard drive. > > Has any of you TB users (assuming there are any here} done this migration? > How is the new shiny? Is it fine? Shall I forget about TB? Any suggestions > of what could replace it? Nope. This is the first I've heard of it. This is not the first I've heard of problems with enigmail. Over the past 5 years or so, it seems like it only works about half the time. And I mean it goes months without being available for installation. I do still use Thunderbird for my mail, but a few months ago I installed claws mail on my laptop just so I could send an encrypted email. It works fine there. I might eventually switch over to using claws full-time. fsmithred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On 10/23/20 10:04 AM, Simon Walter wrote: Has any of you TB users (assuming there are any here} done this migration? How is the new shiny? Is it fine? Shall I forget about TB? Any suggestions of what could replace it? yes it works, but not without issues.. you need to install latest enigmail 2.2 (iirc) to get a migration manager from enigmail to native gpg in TB 78... lots of bugs, but can't find courage to submit any in debian... though, i'm still using it... daily.. [ posted sometime ago : https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=3859 ] alternatives to TB, could be evolution or claws or .. (?) i keep profiles for those (mutt as well), since i want to be able to switch clients, when TB's in trouble.. ;-) d. OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
