[DNG] UEFI and Secure Boot

[Steve Litt]

Hi all,

I basically said UEFI is junk and Secure Boot is an anti-small-distro
monopolistic practice. These were, and continue to be, my opinions, but
they're just one man's opinion. I can see use cases where Secure Boot
would be great, and I can see cases where something like UEFI would be
handy: But they're neither necessary nor wanted on MY computers.

If I had a real choice to stick with MBR and always be able to disable
Secure Boot, the world would be fine. We'd all make our choice, and
we'd all be happy.

But you don't know if you can turn off Secure Boot until you've bought
the mobo or computer. This ability, which is the #1 priority for me,
doesn't even make it to the specifications. There's no way to find out.
THAT's why I hate Secure Boot.

Similar for UEFI. I don't like its architecture, for exactly the same
reason I don't like KDE and I don't like systemd: Monolithic
entanglement. Hey, my preference is to have modules communicate on a
need to know basis. Others may differ: All I wish is that we all had
our choice.

So I've written this email just to make sure my position is never
interpreted as "nobody needs hardware protection against malware" or
"nobody needs a system to prevent various boot code from clobbering
each other." All I'm saying is it should be an option, and the
existence of the option.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
October 2017 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
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Re: [DNG] Amprolla3 is out for testing

[Jaromil]

On Sun, 22 Oct 2017, Arnt Karlsen wrote:

> ..leaving "-t experimental" out while adding backports back in, I now 
> have a credible "1 Upgradeable, linux-image-4.9.0-0.bpo.3-rt-amd64
> version 4.9.30-2+deb9u5~bpo8+1" and still no New packages and a 
> lowered "16 Obsolete and Locally Created Packages", vdev, d1h, apulse,
> the refracta's, setnet, linux-image-4.9.0-0.bpo.2-rt-amd64-unsigned,
> dbus-tests, libjournal-shim and local stuff like companion22, brlcad 
> and 2 alien epson printer packs.
> 
> ..leaving "-t experimental" out of aptitude's cli while adding
> experimental back in into the sources list, I now have a more credible
> "4 Upgradeable", 3 broken (udisks2, libudev (and libudisks2)) and 
> "10 New packages" and a credible "5 Obsolete and Locally Created
> Packages", linux-image-4.9.0-0.bpo.2-rt-amd64-unsigned, and local 
> stuff like companion22, brlcad and 2 alien epson printer packs.
> 
> ..now adding "-t experimental" back in to aptitude's cli, adds no new
> mayhem, the "10 New packages" above are db4.8-utils and depends etc.
> "This has been a closer look!" ;o)

to round-up the issue, this was due to a bug in amprolla3, now fixed

https://git.devuan.org/devuan-infrastructure/amprolla3/commit/22ec2a3634b8eee640a335e8d9f28754509e7024

thanks everyone for spotting it and to parazyd for recognising it and
fixing it immediately! I was also confused by the nature of this
glitch.


ciao

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Re: [DNG] Amprolla3 is out for testing

[Alessandro Selli]

On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 at 08:22:57 -0400
fsmithred  wrote:

> On 10/22/2017 06:51 AM, Alessandro Selli wrote:
>> On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 at 06:33:58 -0400
>> fsmithred  wrote:
>>   
>>> On 10/22/2017 05:18 AM, Alessandro Selli wrote:  
 On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 at 16:47:57 -0500
 goli...@dyne.org wrote:
> We are happy to announce that 'amprolla3', the rewrite of nextime's
> amprolla by parazyd and Wizzup, is finally up and running and ready
> to be tested.

   All right, tested:
 164 packages upgraded,
 74 installed.

   Kernel went from linux-image-4.9+80+deb9u2-amd64 to
 linux-image-4.12.0-0.bpo.2-amd64, libreoffice went from 5.2.7-1 to
 5.4.1-1, tor from 0.2.9.11-1 to 0.3.1.7-1, pulseaudio is still out of
 the way and, as far as I'm concerned, everything, including https://,
 works like a charm.   
>>>
>>>
>>> Your libreoffice went from ascii to buster and tor went from ascii to
>>> buster/sid/ceres. Does your sources.list say "testing" instead of
>>> "ascii"?  
>> 
>>   No, but I have ascii-backports configured, could that be the reason?
>>  
>> 
>>   
>
> If it's from backports, there should be a bpo in the version. Other than
> that, the numbers are the same for ascii-backports and buster. Here's the
> full list of what I find for libreoffice. (Note: I don't install anything
> or upgrade with these sources enabled.)
>
> $ apt-cache policy libreoffice
> libreoffice:
>   Installed: 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u7
>   Candidate: 1:5.4.1-1~bpo9+1

[...]

  Sorry I didn't check it myself, but I'm very busy today (SMAU and LinuxDay
coming next week).  Well yes, they're from backports:

$ apt-cache policy libreoffice-core tor
libreoffice-core:
  Installed: 1:5.4.1-1~bpo9+1
  Candidate: 1:5.4.1-1~bpo9+1
  Version table:
 *** 1:5.4.1-1~bpo9+1 500
500 https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii-backports/main amd64
Packages 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
 1:5.2.7-1 500
500 https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii/main amd64 Packages
tor:
  Installed: 0.3.1.7-1~bpo9+1
  Candidate: 0.3.1.7-1~bpo9+1
  Version table:
 *** 0.3.1.7-1~bpo9+1 500
500 https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii-backports/main amd64
Packages 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
 0.2.9.12-1 500
500 https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii-security/main amd64
Packages 0.2.9.11-1~deb9u1 500
500 https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii/main amd64 Packages


  Didn't think about disabling backports before doing the update/upgrade, i
should have.  Well, even then amprolla3 didn't do anything wrong, to my
utmost pleasure.  Thank you, guys!

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Re: [DNG] Amprolla3 is out for testing

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 16:03:33 +0200, Jaromil wrote in message 
<20171022140333.rnvntd3gxn454vli@reflex>:

> On Sun, 22 Oct 2017, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> 
> > ..leaving "-t experimental" out while adding backports back in, I
> > now have a credible "1 Upgradeable,
> > linux-image-4.9.0-0.bpo.3-rt-amd64 version 4.9.30-2+deb9u5~bpo8+1"
> > and still no New packages and a lowered "16 Obsolete and Locally
> > Created Packages", vdev, d1h, apulse, the refracta's, setnet,
> > linux-image-4.9.0-0.bpo.2-rt-amd64-unsigned, dbus-tests,
> > libjournal-shim and local stuff like companion22, brlcad and 2
> > alien epson printer packs.
> > 
> > ..leaving "-t experimental" out of aptitude's cli while adding
> > experimental back in into the sources list, I now have a more
> > credible "4 Upgradeable", 3 broken (udisks2, libudev (and
> > libudisks2)) and "10 New packages" and a credible "5 Obsolete and
> > Locally Created Packages",
> > linux-image-4.9.0-0.bpo.2-rt-amd64-unsigned, and local stuff like
> > companion22, brlcad and 2 alien epson printer packs.
> > 
> > ..now adding "-t experimental" back in to aptitude's cli, adds no
> > new mayhem, the "10 New packages" above are db4.8-utils and depends
> > etc. "This has been a closer look!" ;o)  
> 
> to round-up the issue, this was due to a bug in amprolla3, now fixed
> 
> https://git.devuan.org/devuan-infrastructure/amprolla3/commit/22ec2a3634b8eee640a335e8d9f28754509e7024
> 
> thanks everyone for spotting it and to parazyd for recognising it and
> fixing it immediately! I was also confused by the nature of this
> glitch.

..I see the last mirror update on the Debian side was: ...
ftp-master.debian.org 2017-10-22 16:48 305
arnt@d44:~/Taranis$ lynx -dump \
http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/project/trace/ |grep _traces 
[ ] [8]_traces 2017-10-22 17:11 72 
8. http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/project/trace/_traces



...so, do we now have the bug fix in effect now at 17:36:38 CEST,
or after our next amprolla3 merge run, say around midnight CEST?


..do we have an /project/trace/_traces style dating other than this?:
arnt@d44:~/Taranis$ lynx -dump http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/
   Index of /
 __

[1]../
[2]devuan/11-Oct-2017 23:31
  -
[3]merged/11-Aug-2017 09:52
  -
[4]amprolla.txt   22-Oct-2017 15:46
6102654
[5]bannedpackages.txt 22-Oct-2017 15:46
   2265
[6]libsystemd.txt 22-Oct-2017 15:46
   9357
[7]oldpackages.txt22-Oct-2017 15:46
  34761
 __

References

   1. http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/
   2. http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan/
   3. http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged/
   4. http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/amprolla.txt
   5. http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt
   6. http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/libsystemd.txt
   7. http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/oldpackages.txt



-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.
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Re: [DNG] Amprolla3 is out for testing

[fsmithred]

On 10/22/2017 10:10 AM, Alessandro Selli wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 at 08:22:57 -0400
> fsmithred  wrote:
> 
>> On 10/22/2017 06:51 AM, Alessandro Selli wrote:
>>> On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 at 06:33:58 -0400
>>> fsmithred  wrote:
>>>   
 On 10/22/2017 05:18 AM, Alessandro Selli wrote:  
> On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 at 16:47:57 -0500
> goli...@dyne.org wrote:
>> We are happy to announce that 'amprolla3', the rewrite of nextime's
>> amprolla by parazyd and Wizzup, is finally up and running and ready
>> to be tested.
>
>   All right, tested:
> 164 packages upgraded,
> 74 installed.
>
>   Kernel went from linux-image-4.9+80+deb9u2-amd64 to
> linux-image-4.12.0-0.bpo.2-amd64, libreoffice went from 5.2.7-1 to
> 5.4.1-1, tor from 0.2.9.11-1 to 0.3.1.7-1, pulseaudio is still out of
> the way and, as far as I'm concerned, everything, including https://,
> works like a charm.   


 Your libreoffice went from ascii to buster and tor went from ascii to
 buster/sid/ceres. Does your sources.list say "testing" instead of
 "ascii"?  
>>>
>>>   No, but I have ascii-backports configured, could that be the reason?
>>>  
>>>
>>>   
>>
>> If it's from backports, there should be a bpo in the version. Other than
>> that, the numbers are the same for ascii-backports and buster. Here's the
>> full list of what I find for libreoffice. (Note: I don't install anything
>> or upgrade with these sources enabled.)
>>
>> $ apt-cache policy libreoffice
>> libreoffice:
>>   Installed: 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u7
>>   Candidate: 1:5.4.1-1~bpo9+1
> 
> [...]
> 
>   Sorry I didn't check it myself, but I'm very busy today (SMAU and LinuxDay
> coming next week).  Well yes, they're from backports:
> 
> $ apt-cache policy libreoffice-core tor
> libreoffice-core:
>   Installed: 1:5.4.1-1~bpo9+1
>   Candidate: 1:5.4.1-1~bpo9+1
>   Version table:
>  *** 1:5.4.1-1~bpo9+1 500
> 500 https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii-backports/main amd64
> Packages 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
>  1:5.2.7-1 500
> 500 https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii/main amd64 Packages
> tor:
>   Installed: 0.3.1.7-1~bpo9+1
>   Candidate: 0.3.1.7-1~bpo9+1
>   Version table:
>  *** 0.3.1.7-1~bpo9+1 500
> 500 https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii-backports/main amd64
> Packages 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
>  0.2.9.12-1 500
> 500 https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii-security/main amd64
> Packages 0.2.9.11-1~deb9u1 500
> 500 https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii/main amd64 Packages
> 
> 
>   Didn't think about disabling backports before doing the update/upgrade, i
> should have.  Well, even then amprolla3 didn't do anything wrong, to my
> utmost pleasure.  Thank you, guys!
> 

Backports should have a lower priority to prevent this kind of thing from
happening.

100 http://debian.csail.mit.edu/debian/ stretch-backports/main amd64
release o=Debian
Backports,a=stretch-backports,n=stretch-backports,l=Debian Backports,c=main

500 http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged/ ascii-backports/main amd64
release v=2.0.0,a=testing-backports,n=ascii-backports,l=Devuan,c=main

fsmithred
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Re: [DNG] Amprolla3 is out for testing

[Alberto Zuin - Liste]

Hi,

Testing on my workstation + some servers: it works like a charm, thank 
you for your effort in improving our distro!


Alberto


On 20/10/17 22:47, goli...@dyne.org wrote:

Dear dev1rs,

We are happy to announce that 'amprolla3', the rewrite of nextime's
amprolla by parazyd and Wizzup, is finally up and running and ready
to be tested.

The code can be found at:

https://git.devuan.org/devuan-infrastructure/amprolla3

The rewrite increases the frequency of merges (now performed
every few minutes, rather than once a day), meaning that new packages,
updates, and upgrades will be available almost immediately to Devuan
users.

We have set up a second host which will serve Devuan packages as
merged by the new amprolla3. It is now available at
pkgmaster.devuan.org and currently serves Devuan Jessie, Devuan Ascii,
and Devuan Ceres, including all the *-security and *-updates sections.
The host, pkgmaster.devuan.org, also supports https.

If you want to help testing the new amprolla3, you just need to:

- replace "auto.mirror.devuan.org" with "pkgmaster.devuan.org" in
  your /etc/apt/sources.list
- # apt-get update
- # apt-get install devuan-keyring

Then just use it as you did with auto.mirror.devuan.org. Please
report any bugs on https://bugs.devuan.org, as usual.

The current auto.mirror.devuan.org host remains up and running and
perfectly usable. Once the testing of amprolla3 is complete, the
transition to the new system should be seamless and transparent to
all users.

The new amprolla3 also provides support for the currently missing
Contents*.gz files (solving the apt-file bug). The feature will be
made available in the coming couple of days.

The Dev1Devs
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Re: [DNG] Amprolla3 is out for testing

[Alessandro Selli]

On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 at 16:47:57 -0500
goli...@dyne.org wrote:

> Dear dev1rs,

  Are these some sort of devs-running-daemon devi1s?  :-)

> We are happy to announce that 'amprolla3', the rewrite of nextime's
> amprolla by parazyd and Wizzup, is finally up and running and ready
> to be tested.

  All right, tested:
164 packages upgraded,
74 installed.

  Kernel went from linux-image-4.9+80+deb9u2-amd64 to
linux-image-4.12.0-0.bpo.2-amd64, libreoffice went from 5.2.7-1 to 5.4.1-1,
tor from 0.2.9.11-1 to 0.3.1.7-1, pulseaudio is still out of the way and, as
far as I'm concerned, everything, including https://, works like a charm.

  Plus:

Yesterday:
$ apt-file list bash
E: The cache is empty. You need to run "apt update" first.

Today:
$ apt-file list bash
bash: /bin/bash
bash: /bin/rbash
bash: /etc/bash.bashrc
bash: /etc/skel/.bash_logout
bash: /etc/skel/.bashrc
bash: /etc/skel/.profile
bash: /usr/bin/bashbug
bash: /usr/bin/clear_console
bash: /usr/share/doc/bash/CHANGES.gz
bash: /usr/share/doc/bash/COMPAT.gz
bash: /usr/share/doc/bash/INTRO.gz
bash: /usr/share/doc/bash/NEWS.gz
bash: /usr/share/doc/bash/POSIX.gz
[...]


  Thank you!


Alessandro

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Re: [DNG] Amprolla3 is out for testing

[Jaromil]

On Sat, 21 Oct 2017, Lars Noodén wrote:
> Who can update it fix the wording and the link and how did it get closed
> off?

I can, its in my TODO and will be done soon.

ciao

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Re: [DNG] Amprolla3 is out for testing

[Jaromil]

hi all

out of Arnt's and Olaf testing and reporting, its made clear that we
need to improveme on amprolla3: we need a "warnlist" for packages that
are overrinding devuan's forked packages. IMHO when debian updates a
package forked by devuan in any of the available suites, the warnlist
would file a bug on bugs.devuan.org and block the package from merging

I believe this will be easy to implement for parazyd and wizzup?

also it is now useful to move over to our infrastructure the devuan
package explorer web frontend made by firegarden, which was previewed
a while ago off their servers.


ciao

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Re: [DNG] Amprolla3 is out for testing

[fsmithred]

On 10/22/2017 05:18 AM, Alessandro Selli wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 at 16:47:57 -0500
> goli...@dyne.org wrote:
>> We are happy to announce that 'amprolla3', the rewrite of nextime's
>> amprolla by parazyd and Wizzup, is finally up and running and ready
>> to be tested.
> 
>   All right, tested:
> 164 packages upgraded,
> 74 installed.
> 
>   Kernel went from linux-image-4.9+80+deb9u2-amd64 to
> linux-image-4.12.0-0.bpo.2-amd64, libreoffice went from 5.2.7-1 to 5.4.1-1,
> tor from 0.2.9.11-1 to 0.3.1.7-1, pulseaudio is still out of the way and, as
> far as I'm concerned, everything, including https://, works like a charm.
> 


Your libreoffice went from ascii to buster and tor went from ascii to
buster/sid/ceres. Does your sources.list say "testing" instead of "ascii"?


Version tables (for reference)

libreoffice:
1:5.4.1-1 0
 10 http://debian.csail.mit.edu/debian/ buster/main amd64 Packages
1:5.2.7-1 0
100 http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged/ ascii/main amd64 Packages
 10 http://debian.csail.mit.edu/debian/ stretch/main amd64 Packages

tor:
0.3.1.7-1 0
100 http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged/ ceres/main amd64 Packages
 10 http://debian.csail.mit.edu/debian/ buster/main amd64 Packages
 10 http://debian.csail.mit.edu/debian/ sid/main amd64 Packages
0.2.9.11-1~deb9u1 0
100 http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged/ ascii/main amd64 Packages
 10 http://debian.csail.mit.edu/debian/ stretch/main amd64 Packages
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Re: [DNG] Amprolla3 is out for testing

[Alessandro Selli]

On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 at 06:33:58 -0400
fsmithred  wrote:

> On 10/22/2017 05:18 AM, Alessandro Selli wrote:
>> On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 at 16:47:57 -0500
>> goli...@dyne.org wrote:  
>>> We are happy to announce that 'amprolla3', the rewrite of nextime's
>>> amprolla by parazyd and Wizzup, is finally up and running and ready
>>> to be tested.  
>> 
>>   All right, tested:
>> 164 packages upgraded,
>> 74 installed.
>> 
>>   Kernel went from linux-image-4.9+80+deb9u2-amd64 to
>> linux-image-4.12.0-0.bpo.2-amd64, libreoffice went from 5.2.7-1 to
>> 5.4.1-1, tor from 0.2.9.11-1 to 0.3.1.7-1, pulseaudio is still out of the
>> way and, as far as I'm concerned, everything, including https://, works
>> like a charm. 
>
>
> Your libreoffice went from ascii to buster and tor went from ascii to
> buster/sid/ceres. Does your sources.list say "testing" instead of "ascii"?

  No, but I have ascii-backports configured, could that be the reason?
 


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Re: [DNG] Debian testing drop redis non systemd

[Jaromil]

Thanks everyone for adding details,

On Fri, 20 Oct 2017, Patrick Meade wrote:

> https://github.com/lamby/pkg-redis/commit/6a9e4d0142b45195a0d55945bbc558df4c48707b#diff-9e388da7cd119765989cc22d2bc07e5c

This diff clearly shows that redis-sentinel example scripts provided
by upstream redis developers for compatibility with sysvinit are being
*deleted* from the package, de facto removing even the documentation
on how to start/stop from init.d despite it being just an example.

it is even worse than I initially thought.

ciao



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Re: [DNG] Amprolla3 is out for testing

[Lars Noodén]

On 10/22/2017 12:39 PM, Jaromil wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Oct 2017, Lars Noodén wrote:
>> Who can update it fix the wording and the link and how did it get closed
>> off?
> 
> I can, its in my TODO and will be done soon.

Thanks.

/Lars
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Re: [DNG] Amprolla3 is out for testing

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 12:28:21 +0900, Olaf wrote in message 
<87vaj7etwv@member.fsf.org>:

> Hi,
> 
> Arnt Karlsen writes:
> 
> > On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 20:37:35 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message
> > <20171021193735.gg4...@katolaz.homeunix.net>:
> >  
> >> On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 08:48:57PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> >>
> >> [cut]
> >>  
> >> > >
> >> > > We have been testing amprolla3 for more than two months now, on
> >> > > dozens machines, and it has been working like a charm.  
> >> >
> >> > ..ok, with jessie + jessie-* + experimental too?
> >> >  
> >>
> >> Yes. You don't need to use both packages.devuan.org and
> >> pkgmaster.devuan.org. The former serves the packages merged by the
> >> original amprolla. The latter served the repos merged by
> >> amprolla3. So choose one of the two.  
> >
> > ..done, 613 upgradeable, Obsolete & local dropped to 5 from 6k
> > and Installed rose by 6k to 7380, so I guess we're headed the
> > right way, I have e.g. pulseaudio wanting to upgrade from our
> > 5.0-13+devuan2 to I suspect Debian's systemd'ed 7.1.2~bpo8+1,
> > what else to look out for?  
> 
> I found the same.  I'm on jessie with security, updates and backports
> enabled.  It turned out that all my upgradable packages are from the
> backports suite.  Slightly worrying is that a number of these are for
> devuan-ized packages.  The 'pulseaudio' package you mentioned is one.
> Another that is probably trouble was 'reportbug'.  The other (source)
> packages I found were bash-completions and cups.
> 
> For non-devuan-ized packages, udev and rsyslog might be problematic.
> 
> Hope this helps,

..it does... dropping backports, the 613 upgradeables drops to 60,
mostly kde's with fishy +deb8uX tails, sudo, dwww and linux-*-3.16,
while linux-*-4.9, forensic-all et al, gnash, klash etc winds up as
Obsolete and Locally Created Packages hiking it to 72 from 5, sooo, 
like Seth Meyers puts it: It's time for a closer look!


-- 
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...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.
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Re: [DNG] Amprolla3 is out for testing

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 12:14:24 +0200, Arnt wrote in message 
<20171022121424.4755f92c@d44>:

> On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 12:28:21 +0900, Olaf wrote in message 
> <87vaj7etwv@member.fsf.org>:
> 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Arnt Karlsen writes:
> >   
> > > On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 20:37:35 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message
> > > <20171021193735.gg4...@katolaz.homeunix.net>:
> > >
> > >> On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 08:48:57PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> > >>
> > >> [cut]
> > >>
> > >> > >
> > >> > > We have been testing amprolla3 for more than two months now,
> > >> > > on dozens machines, and it has been working like a charm.
> > >> >
> > >> > ..ok, with jessie + jessie-* + experimental too?
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> Yes. You don't need to use both packages.devuan.org and
> > >> pkgmaster.devuan.org. The former serves the packages merged by
> > >> the original amprolla. The latter served the repos merged by
> > >> amprolla3. So choose one of the two.
> > >
> > > ..done, 613 upgradeable, Obsolete & local dropped to 5 from 6k
> > > and Installed rose by 6k to 7380, so I guess we're headed the
> > > right way, I have e.g. pulseaudio wanting to upgrade from our
> > > 5.0-13+devuan2 to I suspect Debian's systemd'ed 7.1.2~bpo8+1,
> > > what else to look out for?
> > 
> > I found the same.  I'm on jessie with security, updates and
> > backports enabled.  It turned out that all my upgradable packages
> > are from the backports suite.  Slightly worrying is that a number
> > of these are for devuan-ized packages.  The 'pulseaudio' package
> > you mentioned is one. Another that is probably trouble was
> > 'reportbug'.  The other (source) packages I found were
> > bash-completions and cups.
> > 
> > For non-devuan-ized packages, udev and rsyslog might be problematic.
> > 
> > Hope this helps,  
> 
> ..it does... dropping backports, the 613 upgradeables drops to 60,
> mostly kde's with fishy +deb8uX tails, sudo, dwww and linux-*-3.16,
> while linux-*-4.9, forensic-all et al, gnash, klash etc winds up as
> Obsolete and Locally Created Packages hiking it to 72 from 5, sooo, 
> like Seth Meyers puts it: It's time for a closer look!

..dropping " -t experimental " from aptitude's cli will let it show 
it's built package lists, showing no Upgradeable and no New packages
and "83 bsolete and Locally Created Packages."

-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.
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Re: [DNG] Amprolla3 is out for testing

[fsmithred]

On 10/22/2017 06:51 AM, Alessandro Selli wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 at 06:33:58 -0400
> fsmithred  wrote:
> 
>> On 10/22/2017 05:18 AM, Alessandro Selli wrote:
>>> On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 at 16:47:57 -0500
>>> goli...@dyne.org wrote:  
 We are happy to announce that 'amprolla3', the rewrite of nextime's
 amprolla by parazyd and Wizzup, is finally up and running and ready
 to be tested.  
>>>
>>>   All right, tested:
>>> 164 packages upgraded,
>>> 74 installed.
>>>
>>>   Kernel went from linux-image-4.9+80+deb9u2-amd64 to
>>> linux-image-4.12.0-0.bpo.2-amd64, libreoffice went from 5.2.7-1 to
>>> 5.4.1-1, tor from 0.2.9.11-1 to 0.3.1.7-1, pulseaudio is still out of the
>>> way and, as far as I'm concerned, everything, including https://, works
>>> like a charm. 
>>
>>
>> Your libreoffice went from ascii to buster and tor went from ascii to
>> buster/sid/ceres. Does your sources.list say "testing" instead of "ascii"?
> 
>   No, but I have ascii-backports configured, could that be the reason?
>  
> 
> 

If it's from backports, there should be a bpo in the version. Other than
that, the numbers are the same for ascii-backports and buster. Here's the
full list of what I find for libreoffice. (Note: I don't install anything
or upgrade with these sources enabled.)

$ apt-cache policy libreoffice
libreoffice:
  Installed: 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u7
  Candidate: 1:5.4.1-1~bpo9+1
  Version table:
 1:5.4.2-3 0
100 http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged/ ceres/main amd64 Packages
 10 http://debian.csail.mit.edu/debian/ sid/main amd64 Packages
 1:5.4.1-1 0
 10 http://debian.csail.mit.edu/debian/ buster/main amd64 Packages
 1:5.4.1-1~bpo9+1 0
500 http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged/ ascii-backports/main amd64
Packages
100 http://debian.csail.mit.edu/debian/ stretch-backports/main
amd64 Packages
 1:5.2.7-1 0
100 http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged/ ascii/main amd64 Packages
 10 http://debian.csail.mit.edu/debian/ stretch/main amd64 Packages
 1:5.2.7-1~bpo8+1 0
200 http://packages.devuan.org/merged/ jessie-backports/main amd64
Packages
 *** 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u7 0
500 http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie/main amd64 Packages
500 http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie-security/main
amd64 Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status

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Re: [DNG] Amprolla3 is out for testing

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 14:12:51 +0200, Arnt wrote in message 
<20171022141252.7d06269c@d44>:

> On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 12:14:24 +0200, Arnt wrote in message 
> <20171022121424.4755f92c@d44>:
> 
> > On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 12:28:21 +0900, Olaf wrote in message 
> > <87vaj7etwv@member.fsf.org>:
> >   
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > Arnt Karlsen writes:
> > > 
> > > > On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 20:37:35 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message
> > > > <20171021193735.gg4...@katolaz.homeunix.net>:
> > > >  
> > > >> On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 08:48:57PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> [cut]
> > > >>  
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > We have been testing amprolla3 for more than two months
> > > >> > > now, on dozens machines, and it has been working like a
> > > >> > > charm.  
> > > >> >
> > > >> > ..ok, with jessie + jessie-* + experimental too?
> > > >> >  
> > > >>
> > > >> Yes. You don't need to use both packages.devuan.org and
> > > >> pkgmaster.devuan.org. The former serves the packages merged by
> > > >> the original amprolla. The latter served the repos merged by
> > > >> amprolla3. So choose one of the two.  
> > > >
> > > > ..done, 613 upgradeable, Obsolete & local dropped to 5 from 6k
> > > > and Installed rose by 6k to 7380, so I guess we're headed the
> > > > right way, I have e.g. pulseaudio wanting to upgrade from our
> > > > 5.0-13+devuan2 to I suspect Debian's systemd'ed 7.1.2~bpo8+1,
> > > > what else to look out for?  
> > > 
> > > I found the same.  I'm on jessie with security, updates and
> > > backports enabled.  It turned out that all my upgradable packages
> > > are from the backports suite.  Slightly worrying is that a number
> > > of these are for devuan-ized packages.  The 'pulseaudio' package
> > > you mentioned is one. Another that is probably trouble was
> > > 'reportbug'.  The other (source) packages I found were
> > > bash-completions and cups.
> > > 
> > > For non-devuan-ized packages, udev and rsyslog might be
> > > problematic.
> > > 
> > > Hope this helps,
> > 
> > ..it does... dropping backports, the 613 upgradeables drops to 60,
> > mostly kde's with fishy +deb8uX tails, sudo, dwww and linux-*-3.16,
> > while linux-*-4.9, forensic-all et al, gnash, klash etc winds up as
> > Obsolete and Locally Created Packages hiking it to 72 from 5, sooo, 
> > like Seth Meyers puts it: It's time for a closer look!  
> 
> ..dropping " -t experimental " from aptitude's cli will let it show 
> it's built package lists, showing no Upgradeable and no New packages
> and "83 bsolete and Locally Created Packages."

..leaving "-t experimental" out while adding backports back in, I now 
have a credible "1 Upgradeable, linux-image-4.9.0-0.bpo.3-rt-amd64
version 4.9.30-2+deb9u5~bpo8+1" and still no New packages and a 
lowered "16 Obsolete and Locally Created Packages", vdev, d1h, apulse,
the refracta's, setnet, linux-image-4.9.0-0.bpo.2-rt-amd64-unsigned,
dbus-tests, libjournal-shim and local stuff like companion22, brlcad 
and 2 alien epson printer packs.

..leaving "-t experimental" out of aptitude's cli while adding
experimental back in into the sources list, I now have a more credible
"4 Upgradeable", 3 broken (udisks2, libudev (and libudisks2)) and 
"10 New packages" and a credible "5 Obsolete and Locally Created
Packages", linux-image-4.9.0-0.bpo.2-rt-amd64-unsigned, and local 
stuff like companion22, brlcad and 2 alien epson printer packs.

..now adding "-t experimental" back in to aptitude's cli, adds no new
mayhem, the "10 New packages" above are db4.8-utils and depends etc.
"This has been a closer look!" ;o)


-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.
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Re: [DNG] Amprolla3 is out for testing

[Fungal-net]

I am still unclear on what the onion repositories are and what our choice is at 
this stage.  Are we on amprolla3?  Are debian's non onion addressed used 
automatically during upgrade or is it an illusion to see http://debian  
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Re: [DNG] Amprolla3 is out for testing

[Antony Stone]

On Monday 23 October 2017 at 00:39:29, Fungi4All wrote:

> go to devuan''s front page and run a text search for onion
> it is right there

You mean accessing the Devuan repositories via the Tor network?

That's a network routing question, not a repository question.


Antony.

> > From: Antony Stone
> > To: Devuan
> > 
> > On Sunday 22 October 2017 at 23:28:51, Fungal-net wrote:
> >> I am still unclear on what the onion repositories are
> >> 
> >> Me too - what are you referrring to?
> >> 
> >> and what our choice is at this stage. Are we on amprolla3?
> >> 
> >> Well, according to what I've seen on the list so far, if you have
> >> "auto.mirror.devuan.org" in your sources.list, then you're on the old
> >> amprolla; if you have "pkgmaster.devuan.org", then you're on the new
> >> amprolla3.
> >> 
> >> Are debian's non onion addressed used automatically during upgrade
> >> 
> >> I still don't quite understand what "onion" means here.
> >> 
> >> or is it an illusion to see http://debian  through while the update
> >> takes place?
> >> 
> >> Plenty (in fact most) of Devuan's packages are just plain Debian
> >> packages, redirected to the Devuan repository.
> >> 
> >> Basically, anything which does not depend on systemd is a plain Debian
> >> package, and you end up getting it from a Debian repository. Anything
> >> which does (did?) depend on systemd is served (as a package without the
> >> systemd dependencies etc) from the Devuan repository.
> >> 
> >> I hope that helps (and I hope I find out what "onion" means here),
> >> 
> >> Antony.

-- 
Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> > Top-posting.
> > > What is the most annoying way of replying to e-mail?

   Please reply to the list;
 please *don't* CC me.
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Re: [DNG] UEFI and Secure Boot

[Fungal-net]

> From: sl...@troubleshooters.com
> To: dng 
>
> Hi all,
>
> I basically said UEFI is junk and Secure Boot is an anti-small-distro
> monopolistic practice. These were, and continue to be, my opinions, but
> they're just one man's opinion. I can see use cases where Secure Boot
> would be great, and I can see cases where something like UEFI would be
> handy: But they're neither necessary nor wanted on MY computers.

I've been following this debate and I can't seem to have interpreted your
argument any other way.  Where I am losing the value of it is whether our
opinions, developed by exposure to debate, have any implications on how the
hw industry behaves.  And then who this industry is?  We are talking about two
architects predominantly, mandating their architecture to a handful of boards
and chip makers, and a small handful of reseller-designers (Dell, HP, Lenovo, 
Toshiba)
who package this up.  To us a distro with 400 users is a big deal, to them a 
sale
of 400 boxes is negligible.  Bios was pretty monolithic in itself, I believe, 
but ever
since the original PC-xt we didn't have much of an option.  Nobody complained
about the middle-chip-man back then.

What I would underline in the argument is whether this shift affects little 
distros
more than the big systems who can afford to adopt to the change.  How many
installers are capable to adopt via the common iso-->usb booting in bios or efi?
How easy is it for inexperienced user to know whether they should download
an efi iso or bios?  Everytime in all retail industry a mono/oligopoly is 
attempted to
be built, to narrow the spectrum of choice, it is covered up with a 
safety/security
of the consumer propaganda.  And there are trolls that get paid to spread this
propaganda around in media.  You name me one industry that this is not common
practice for the "big guys" to take out the "little guys" by selling security 
and
safety to the terror victims.  Food, transportation, building, energy, ...
Then there are factory installed linux systems, ubuntu, manjaro, ... is there 
one
that installs a non-systemd system?

Steve Litt is technically correct in pointing the technical aspects of this out 
but
his arguments are normally sterilized from what this really means.  They are
politically in a vacuum of content.  Whether I and Tobias agree or disagree is
irrelevant to Toshiba.

> If I had a real choice to stick with MBR and always be able to disable
> Secure Boot, the world would be fine. We'd all make our choice, and
> we'd all be happy.

Well I liked 2stroke motors too, but they were banned not on their mechanical
merits but with the excuse of not being environmentally correct, just because
it was more profitable and easier for the competition to adopt to such 
restriction.
Mr Honda himself who made fine 2strokes had promised to make them vanish.
A generation later a youngster believes it is common practice and socially
acceptable to pay 150euro/$ for semi-annual "service".  And Europe is covered
up with a carcinogenic diesel cloud, the SE Asia rainforest is vanishing to 
produce
biodiesel for C/W europe, and it is all for the profitability of VW and other 
gangsters.

> But you don't know if you can turn off Secure Boot until you've bought
> the mobo or computer. This ability, which is the #1 priority for me,
> doesn't even make it to the specifications. There's no way to find out.
> THAT's why I hate Secure Boot.

Tell us, as I don't know enough, which system is more secure in booting
a portable LUKS encrypted disk.  Can it be done with EFI easier?  This
was known and available technology before secure boot.

> Similar for UEFI. I don't like its architecture, for exactly the same
> reason I don't like KDE and I don't like systemd: Monolithic
> entanglement. Hey, my preference is to have modules communicate on a
> need to know basis. Others may differ: All I wish is that we all had
> our choice.

So you are stuck using 5-10 year old pcs which in 10 years will be few
and scarce and a minimalist linux system will require 2GB to idle.  So
who cares about your choice.  If you scan google for mimimalist linux
screenshots and see what those awesome, i3, jwm, systems are running
on, you will have a hard time seeing one on a pre-Efi system.  Next year
you have a hard time finding one running with under 8cores.
So who will debate in Debian, or Arch the merits of continuing non-efi
supported installers?  Look what is happening to 32bit systems, the spectrum
is narrowing day by day.  The attrocity is to hear the argument that in the
name of security 32bit can't be kept in development as all interrelated 
technology
is evolving around 64bit.  So it is more secure to have more complex
architecture than a simpler one.

Again, where is the content of your argument?  What good does it do for
me and you to eventually agree that bicycles should have no registration,
insurance and turnsignals?  This world will still be the same without us.

> So I've 

Re: [DNG] systemd-udevd: renamed network interface eth0 to eth1

[Tobias Hunger]

On Oct 21, 2017 10:05, "Dr. Nikolaus Klepp"  wrote:

> Tobias, until I read your posting a couple of days ago I did not realise
> that UEFI/Secure Boot can be configured such that ONLY my kernels can be
> booted, not even fresh install media from the vendor. Thank you very much.
>
> Arnt

Well, that's not true: If you are lucky, your vendor installed a bios that
allows you seamingly do so. But most likely he didn't. Most likely his
implementation has a backdoor for windows. You'll need to see his contracts
with M$ to verify this. Sometimes somebody down the sales lane will give
you some hints, but don't count on it.


Sure, vendor sell crappy firmware, nothing new there. You have the same
problem with any firmware, this is in no way limited to UEFI.

It is also pretty easy to test for: Remove the Microsoft key and boot a
Windows install CD. If that still boots, then the UEFI implementation sucks
and you should complain to your vendor. I never had that happen though.

Best Regards,
Tobias
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Re: [DNG] Amprolla3 is out for testing

[KatolaZ]

On Sun, Oct 22, 2017 at 05:50:54PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote:

[cut]

> 
> ..I see the last mirror update on the Debian side was: ...
> ftp-master.debian.org 2017-10-22 16:48 305
> arnt@d44:~/Taranis$ lynx -dump \
> http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/project/trace/ |grep _traces 
>   [ ] [8]_traces 2017-10-22 17:11 72 
>   8. http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/project/trace/_traces
> 
> 
> 
> ...so, do we now have the bug fix in effect now at 17:36:38 CEST,
> or after our next amprolla3 merge run, say around midnight CEST?
> 

Dear Arnt,

amprolla3 merges every few minutes, and thefix is already in place.

HTH

KatolaZ

-- 
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Re: [DNG] Amprolla3 is out for testing

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 22:17:00 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message 
<20171022211700.gi4...@katolaz.homeunix.net>:

> On Sun, Oct 22, 2017 at 05:50:54PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> 
> [cut]
> 
> > 
> > ..I see the last mirror update on the Debian side was: ...
> > ftp-master.debian.org 2017-10-22 16:48 305
> > arnt@d44:~/Taranis$ lynx -dump \
> > http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/project/trace/ |grep _traces 
> > [ ] [8]_traces 2017-10-22 17:11 72 
> > 8. http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/project/trace/_traces
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ...so, do we now have the bug fix in effect now at 17:36:38 CEST,
> > or after our next amprolla3 merge run, say around midnight CEST?
> >   
> 
> Dear Arnt,
> 
> amprolla3 merges every few minutes, and thefix is already in place.
> 
> HTH

..it does, thank you all. :o)

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  best case, worst case, and just in case.
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Re: [DNG] Amprolla3 is out for testing

[Antony Stone]

On Sunday 22 October 2017 at 23:28:51, Fungal-net wrote:

> I am still unclear on what the onion repositories are

Me too - what are you referrring to?

> and what our choice is at this stage.  Are we on amprolla3?

Well, according to what I've seen on the list so far, if you have 
"auto.mirror.devuan.org" in your sources.list, then you're on the old 
amprolla; if you have "pkgmaster.devuan.org", then you're on the new 
amprolla3.

> Are debian's non onion addressed used automatically during upgrade

I still don't quite understand what "onion" means here.

> or is it an illusion to see http://debian  through while the update
> takes place?

Plenty (in fact most) of Devuan's packages are just plain Debian packages, 
redirected to the Devuan repository.

Basically, anything which does not depend on systemd is a plain Debian 
package, and you end up getting it from a Debian repository.  Anything which 
does (did?) depend on systemd is served (as a package without the systemd 
dependencies etc) from the Devuan repository.

I hope that helps (and I hope I find out what "onion" means here),


Antony.

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Re: [DNG] Amprolla3 is out for testing

[KatolaZ]

On Sun, Oct 22, 2017 at 05:28:51PM -0400, Fungal-net wrote:
> I am still unclear on what the onion repositories are and what our choice is 
> at this stage.  Are we on amprolla3?  Are debian's non onion addressed used 
> automatically during upgrade or is it an illusion to see http://debian  
> through while the update takes place?


Hi,

the devuan onion URL points to pkgmaster.devuan.org, hence if you use
onion you are using amprolla3. onion requests for non-forked packages
(i.e., those coming from Debian) are correctly redireted to an onion
Debian repo (we have triple-checked right now), so if your onion
configuration is correct you should see only tor+http requests during
apt-get update and apt-get install/upgrade.

HTH

KatolaZ

-- 
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[ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
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