Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Translating French Math FAQs

[Glen Reesor]

Thanks everyone. Good to know I'm on the right track.

- Glen

Hazel Russman  wrote:
>On Tue, 3 Dec 2013 19:00:26 +0100
>C  wrote:
>
>> 
>> If it's any help, I started working on the Impress FAQs translations
>> and used the same number approach as the FR team did.
>> 
>> Clayton
>> 
>
>I have been doing the same for the Writer and Calc faqs. FR/FAQ/nnn
>becomes Faq/nnn.
>
>Hazel
>
>
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Re: Fwd: RE: [libreoffice-documentation] I'm not a spammer!

[Glen Reesor]

Hello Florian,
I'm not having the problem any more so I can't give you the exact error. 
What I do remember is that I was being "throttled" because I was doing 
too many  things (I forget the exact word) in a short period of time. It 
then suggested waiting a few minutes.


Thanks for offering your help. Hopefully I will have no problems now :-)

- Glen

On 2013-12-02 02:39, Florian Effenberger wrote:

Hello,

Klaus-Jürgen kindly forwarded me your e-mail, so I'll reply inline. 
Note: Please Cc me on replies, as I do not read this list.


K-J LibreOffice wrote on 2013-12-02 08:07:


I think I know what's happening. I haven't answered a number of the
anti-spam questions correctly, and the time for which I'm blocked is
*really* long.


What's the blocking message? I haven't configured our Captcha so that 
it locks users, at least not on purpose, so I'd like to have a look 
whether that is really the culprit or some other plugin.


The problem is that we have heavy spam problems, being one of the 
largest free software projects. Rather than switching to manual 
account approval, we decided to leave the registration open, but that 
means we have to take some provisions. Just as with e-mail spam 
filtering, they are never 100% perfect, neither in terms of false 
positives nor false negatives. :-(



As for the questions I'm getting wrong, here are some (paraphrasing):
What's the 3 letter acronym for this organization? I typed TDF but that
wasn't correct. Perhaps it's expecting lower case?


TDF in upper case is correct.


What's the street abbreviation without number? I typed Kurfürstendamm.
No idea what the abbreviation would be since I'm not German.


Sorry for that glitch - it indeed contained the old address. The new 
one has a special character (Umlaut) in it, so I completely removed 
that question now.



What's the phone number for TDF? I've tried "609856720" and "30
609856720". My next try will be "+49 30 609856720"


That sounds about right. :-)


Anyway, long story short, I'd say some of these questions either have
unexpected answers or non-obvious ones for English speakers like me.
Furthermore, being locked out for a day or more seems excessive :-).


Sorry for the bad experience you made, that's definitely not what we 
intend. I have fixed one of the questions, and if you let me know the 
exact error message about locking, I am happy to have a look.


You can also let me know your desired username, then I create the user 
manually for you.


Florian




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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Translating French Math FAQs

[Glen Reesor]

Thanks Jean. I will use the method suggested by Sophie.

Jean Weber  wrote:
>I have little to do with the FAQs, so I'm not the person to answer most
>questions on that topic. --Jean
>
>> On 4 Dec 2013, at 2:11, Glen Reesor  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Jean,
>> I just realized I should have directed my question to someone in
>particular :-). Also, a better wording of my question is below:
>> 
>> The first link I've created for the English Math FAQ is:
>> 
>> [[ How do I put a left bracket without including a right one? | How
>do I put a left bracket without including a right one? ]]
>> 
>> 
>> Should I instead use something like this?
>> 
>> [[ Faq/Math/001 | How do I put a left bracket without including a
>right one? ]]
>> 
>> And then the next one would be Faq/Math/002?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Glen
>> 
>>> On 2013-12-01 12:21, Glen Reesor wrote:
>>> I have added one entry to the English Math FAQ (still getting
>throttled--but that's another issue)
>>> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Faq/Math
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Is there a standard for what to name new pages in the markup? For
>example, the French markup looks like this:
>>> 
>>> [[FR/FAQ/Math/001 | Comment mettre une parenthèse à gauche sans en
>mettre une à droite ?]]
>>> 
>>> 
>>> But I have used the title of the page as the first field in the [[ |
>]] markup as shown below:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> [[ How do I put a left bracket without including a right one? | How
>do I put a left bracket without including a right one? ]]
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Is there a preference between the two?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks.
>>> - Glen
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Translating French Math FAQs

[Glen Reesor]

Thanks Sophie. I will used the numbered approach.

- Glen

On 2013-12-03 09:25, Sophie wrote:

Hi Glen,
Le 03/12/2013 17:11, Glen Reesor a écrit :
   

Hi Jean,
I just realized I should have directed my question to someone in
particular :-). Also, a better wording of my question is below:

The first link I've created for the English Math FAQ is:

[[ How do I put a left bracket without including a right one? | How do I
put a left bracket without including a right one? ]]


Should I instead use something like this?

[[ Faq/Math/001 | How do I put a left bracket without including a right
one? ]]

And then the next one would be Faq/Math/002?
 

We (FR group) created this numbering in the article links to make it
easier to maintain translation, it's easier to see a number increased
than a new string in another language. So it's up to you to follow it,
but I guess it will be easier also with a number for other groups
translating from English into their own language in the future.

Kind regards
Sophie


   


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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Translating French Math FAQs

[Glen Reesor]

Hi Jean,
I just realized I should have directed my question to someone in 
particular :-). Also, a better wording of my question is below:


The first link I've created for the English Math FAQ is:

[[ How do I put a left bracket without including a right one? | How do I put a 
left bracket without including a right one? ]]


Should I instead use something like this?

[[ Faq/Math/001 | How do I put a left bracket without including a right one? ]]

And then the next one would be Faq/Math/002?

Thanks,

Glen

On 2013-12-01 12:21, Glen Reesor wrote:

I have added one entry to the English Math FAQ (still getting throttled--but 
that's another issue)
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Faq/Math


Is there a standard for what to name new pages in the markup? For example, the 
French markup looks like this:

[[FR/FAQ/Math/001 | Comment mettre une parenthèse à gauche sans en mettre une à 
droite ?]]


But I have used the title of the page as the first field in the [[ | ]] markup 
as shown below:


[[ How do I put a left bracket without including a right one? | How do I put a 
left bracket without including a right one? ]]


Is there a preference between the two?


Thanks.
- Glen


   


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RE: [libreoffice-documentation] I'm not a spammer!

[Glen Reesor]

I think I know what's happening. I haven't answered a number of the anti-spam 
questions correctly, and the time for which I'm blocked is *really* long.


As for the questions I'm getting wrong, here are some (paraphrasing):
What's the 3 letter acronym for this organization? I typed TDF but that wasn't 
correct. Perhaps it's expecting lower case?


What's the street abbreviation without number? I typed Kurfürstendamm. No idea 
what the abbreviation would be since I'm not German.


What's the phone number for TDF? I've tried "609856720" and "30 609856720". My 
next try will be "+49 30 609856720"


Anyway, long story short, I'd say some of these questions either have 
unexpected answers or non-obvious ones for English speakers like me. 
Furthermore, being locked out for a day or more seems excessive :-).


Regards,
Glen



 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] I'm not a spammer!
From: Robinson tryonbishop.robin...@gmail.com
Date: Sat, November 30, 2013 10:24 am
To: Glen reesorg...@jenniferandglen.ca
Cc: Christian lohmaiercl...@documentfoundation.org,
"Documentation@global.libreoffice.org"

RE: [libreoffice-documentation] Translating French Math FAQs

[Glen Reesor]

I have added one entry to the English Math FAQ (still getting throttled--but 
that's another issue)
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Faq/Math


Is there a standard for what to name new pages in the markup? For example, the 
French markup looks like this:

[[FR/FAQ/Math/001 | Comment mettre une parenthèse à gauche sans en mettre une à 
droite ?]]


But I have used the title of the page as the first field in the [[ | ]] markup 
as shown below:


[[ How do I put a left bracket without including a right one? | How do I put a 
left bracket without including a right one? ]]


Is there a preference between the two?


Thanks.
- Glen


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RE: [libreoffice-documentation] Writer/Math handling of unicode symbols

[Glen Reesor]

Thanks Regina. That's how I thought it worked. What confused me is that after 
inserting something like ⇄ and highlighting it in Writer, the font combobox 
doesn't change from Verdana (my initial font, which does not include ⇄). 
Furthermore, if I highlight ⇄ and change the font, it changes slightly each 
time, suggesting that there actually is a different symbol in each font.


On a related note, is it correct that Dejavu Sans is included in LibreOffice on 
all platforms?


Thanks.


- Glen



 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Writer/Math handling of unicode
symbols
From: Regina henschelrb.hensc...@t-online.de
Date: Sat, November 30, 2013 5:15 pm
To:documentation@global.libreoffice.org

Hi Glen,

Glen Reesor schrieb:
I'm working on translating the Math FAQs from French and have discovered
that both Math and Writer only display a subset of the displayable
characters in any given font.

For instance, the double arrow character ⇄ (unicode 21c4) exists in a
number of fonts, and can be inserted by typing CTRL+u21c4, yet it
doesn't show up in Writer's Insert-Special Character or Math's
Catalog-Edit windows.

Does anyone know why there's only a subset? Is it arbitrary, or perhaps
chosen to mimic the subset shown in MS Word?

No. The Insert Special Character dialog does only show those characters
which are really contained in the font. It does not consider any
character replacement. So to get the character ⇄ (unicode 21c4) you have
to choose a font which contains it, for example "DejaVu Sans".

Kind regards
Regina


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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Writer/Math handling of unicode symbols

[Glen Reesor]

That should be CTRL + SHIFT + u21c4.

On 2013-11-30 17:06, Glen Reesor wrote:
I'm working on translating the Math FAQs from French and have 
discovered that both Math and Writer only display a subset of the 
displayable characters in any given font.


For instance, the double arrow character ⇄ (unicode 21c4) exists in a 
number of fonts, and can be inserted by typing CTRL+u21c4, yet it 
doesn't show up in Writer's Insert->Special Character or Math's 
Catalog->Edit windows.


Does anyone know why there's only a subset? Is it arbitrary, or 
perhaps chosen to mimic the subset shown in MS Word?


Thanks.

- Glen



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[libreoffice-documentation] Writer/Math handling of unicode symbols

[Glen Reesor]

I'm working on translating the Math FAQs from French and have discovered 
that both Math and Writer only display a subset of the displayable 
characters in any given font.


For instance, the double arrow character ⇄ (unicode 21c4) exists in a 
number of fonts, and can be inserted by typing CTRL+u21c4, yet it 
doesn't show up in Writer's Insert->Special Character or Math's 
Catalog->Edit windows.


Does anyone know why there's only a subset? Is it arbitrary, or perhaps 
chosen to mimic the subset shown in MS Word?


Thanks.

- Glen

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Copy documentation from OpenOffice.org?

[Glen Reesor]

I agree with Jean. I will continue work on translating the French FAQs, 
using the corresponding AOO English versions to help me understand 
context when I have difficulty with the French.


- Glen

On 2013-11-30 13:52, Jean Weber wrote:

On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 10:59 PM, C  wrote:
   

It's not about court cases, it's about respecting the wishes and
expectations of people who did contribute under a specific license (or
no license).
 

Totally agree with Clayton about that.

   

If we treat legacy documentation content that does not have any
explicit license as being under PDL (as much as we may not like PDL),
we should be within reason of the original expectations of the
original authors.  This is compatible with the license statements on
the AOO Wiki today.

If the PDL is incompatible with the CC-BY-SA licenses in use for
LibreOffice, then maybe instead of direct copy/paste, use the content
as a starting point... rewrite and update the content to make it
relevant to LibreOffice. Does this idea still respect the original
author's intentions as well as the expectations of anyone who
contributed to the FAQs since they were added to the Wiki?
 


I don't know whether PDL is compatiable with CC-BY-SA. Whether it is
or not, I think Clayton's suggestion is best: instead of directly
copying the content on the AOO wiki, use it as a starting point and
rewrite and update it as needed for LO. That also has the advantage of
forcing us to review the material to make sure it's up to date for LO.

--Jean


   


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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] I'm not a spammer!

[Glen Reesor]

Hello Robinson / Cloph

Just wondering if there's any progress on this. Since sending this email 
I've been able to make only one change on the wiki. The rest of the time 
I get throttled.


Thanks.

- Glen

On 2013-11-27 19:22, Robinson Tryon wrote:

On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Glen Reesor  wrote:
   

Hello Robinson,
I'm also getting "throttled" as an anti-spam measure. However I haven't made
any other changes today (or yesterday). I'm trying to create the Math link
at
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Faq
 

Hi Glen,
I'm able to make at least one change to the wiki with my account right
now, but the problem is (I believe) a cumulative effect.

Cc'ing Cloph here for advice.

Thanks,
--R

   


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[libreoffice-documentation] Copy documentation from OpenOffice.org?

[Glen Reesor]

I'm working on translating the Math FAQ from French to English and noticed that 
very good English versions of these questions exist 
athttps://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/FAQ/Formula

Given that LibreOffice forked fromOpenOffice.orgin 2010 (prior to the vast 
majority of content on thatOo.orgpage), is the licensing such that we can just 
copy these FAQs to the LibreOffice FAQs?
- Glen


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RE: [libreoffice-documentation] I'm not a spammer!

[Glen Reesor]

Hello Robinson,
I'm also getting "throttled" as an anti-spam measure. However I haven't made 
any other changes today (or yesterday). I'm trying to create the Math link at
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Faq
- Glen



 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] I'm not a spammer!
From: Robinson tryonbishop.robin...@gmail.com
Date: Thu, November 21, 2013 10:14 am
To: Hazel russmanhazeldeb...@googlemail.com
Cc: "Documentation@global.libreoffice.org"
documentation@global.libreoffice.org=0A
On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Robinson Tryon
bishop.robinson@gmail.comwrote:
We've been running into some problems with the wiki lately, and I've
been working with cloph to try to remedy them asap.
...
I'll ping back to the Docs list once I have more information for you.

Cloph has disabled some of the offending code. Please let us know if
you're still experiencing problems editing the wiki.

Thanks,
--R

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: Version 4.1 Draw Guide, Chapter 9

[Glen Reesor]

Hello Jean,
I will work on translating the French Math FAQs to English. By the way, 
I'm not sure how to notify the French team I'll be working on this.


- Glen

On 2013-11-17 13:05, Jean Weber wrote:

On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 10:26 PM, Hazel Russman
  wrote:
   

On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 08:09:38 +1000
Jean Weber  wrote:

 

3) I am still looking for one or more people to help with updating the
Base Handbook, which was translated from German to English. In this
case, the work involves translating new material that was added to the
German handbook for v4.1. If you are interested in helping with this
work, I can provide more info&  point you to the relevant files.
   

Which is more urgent, the Base Handbook or the Calc Wiki? I can do
either but not both.

Hazel
 

Hard to choose; IMO both are high priority, so it's really up to you.
Finishing the Calc FAQs is certainly a good thing to do.

More general comment to other team members: there are other French
FAQs and tutorials to be translated in English, if you feel
comfortable doing that. Please coordinate on this list, so you don't
duplicate effort by other team members, including in the French group.
Original French FAQs are here: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/FR/FAQ
English FAQs are here: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Faq

--Jean

   


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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] LO Math Help

[Glen Reesor]

Hello Jonathon,
I was wondering the same thing. However according to Sophie, this would then 
need to be translated, and the translation team is tight on resources. See 
Sophie's message of November 13 in this thread.

By the way, I have put my examples document on the documentation wiki under 
"Other Documents". Feel free to provide feedback.

 https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Development

- Glen

jonathon  wrote:
>
>
>On 11/10/2013 07:25 PM, Glen Reesor wrote:
>> I have created a list of common
>> constructions for LO Math (exponents, roots, matricies, integrals,
>> limits, piecewise functions , etc) and some common formulas
>(Pythagorean
>> Theorem, quadratic formula, slope, binomial expansion, etc).
>
>Would it be possible to both include that content in the help files,
>and
>also as a stand-alone downloadable document?
>
>jonathon
>
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] LO Math Help

[Glen Reesor]

Thanks for the clarification Sophie. I will work with Jean to make it 
available for review somewhere.


- Glen

On 13/11/13 12:45 AM, Sophie wrote:

Hi Glen,
Le 13/11/2013 04:51, Glen Reesor a écrit :
[...]

   

Jean and Sophie, when I first looked at the help docs at
https://help.libreoffice.org/Math/Math_Examples

I thought it was a template waiting to be filled in. I had no idea that
the titles were actually links to help content! Perhaps a usability
issue? When it comes to examples for LO Math, I think a very usable
presentation would be to have all examples on one page, thereby allowing
readers to quickly scan and find what they're looking for.
 

What is here is what is in the product, so it's not on one page in the
product, this is why you see it under links. What we have to think about
also is that the help is translated in all LO languages and we should be
careful when asking for resources here, team are very short with a lot
of work. This is why I propose to have a link in the product help that
points to the wiki.

Kind regards
Sophie



   


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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] LO Math Help

[Glen Reesor]

So it looks like I should upload my examples for review either on the 
ODFAuthors website or at

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Development

Jean, where would you prefer I put it?

Jean and Sophie, when I first looked at the help docs at
https://help.libreoffice.org/Math/Math_Examples

I thought it was a template waiting to be filled in. I had no idea that 
the titles were actually links to help content! Perhaps a usability 
issue? When it comes to examples for LO Math, I think a very usable 
presentation would be to have all examples on one page, thereby allowing 
readers to quickly scan and find what they're looking for.


My two cents.

- Glen

On 12/11/13 02:01 AM, Sophie wrote:

Hi Glen, all,
Le 12/11/2013 02:13, Glen Reesor a écrit :
   

My list is in ODT format right now. I would have no problem putting it
in wiki format. Thanks for passing my note along to Sophie Gautier.
 

Thanks Jean for passing the note. Glen, currently the helps file are in
.xhp file format and contains a lot of xml tags, making them difficult
to manage for non technical persons. Also this is the basic
documentation available to all languages, hence the master in English
and the fact it's not editable in the wiki.
What is possible is the same than for some Calc functions: detailed
examples in wiki and a link in the help files that points to it. That
way we keep the help files light and have more resources in the wiki.

Kind regards
Sophie




   


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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] LO Math Help

[Glen Reesor]

My list is in ODT format right now. I would have no problem putting it 
in wiki format. Thanks for passing my note along to Sophie Gautier.


- Glen

On 2013-11-11 17:21, Jean Weber wrote:

Glen,
The help files at help.libreoffice.org are a copy of the help files
supplied with the LibreOffice program itself). AFAIK, they are
created/reviewed/published by the developers and translators, due to
the requirements of tools used in the process. The best person to ask
is probably Sophie Gautier, whom I have copied on this note.

My guess is that, at this time, the best way to contribute your work
is through the Docs wiki, from where it can be picked up and reused by
the Help team. We can certainly make a place for it on the wiki,
either in wiki format or in ODT/PDF format -- or all of those. What
form is your list in now?

--Jean
Team Leader, LibreOffice Documentation


On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 5:25 AM, Glen Reesor  wrote:
   

Thanks for the note Tom.

As I mentioned in my previous email, I would like to help creating
documentation for LibreOffice. I have created a list of common constructions
for LO Math (exponents, roots, matricies, integrals, limits, piecewise
functions , etc) and some common formulas (Pythagorean Theorem, quadratic
formula, slope, binomial expansion, etc).

As far as I can tell, these would belong here:
https://help.libreoffice.org/Math/Math_Examples

The odfauthors.org website appears to be setup for creating and review
libreoffice docs. What process is used for creating/reviewing/publishing
parts of help.libreoffice.org?

What would be my next step in contributing this work?

Thanks in advance,

Glen



On 2013-11-07 05:38, Tom Davies wrote:
 

Hi :)
They are allowed and most people prolly can deal with them but it's best
avoided.

The links worked for me and i suspect people reading using a plain-text
email-client were prolly able to deal with those links so don't worry
about
it this time.  I tend to try to put urls on a new-line and then start
another newline immediately afterwards.  I've seen people put full-stops
and other punctuation after them which messes up the link whereas the way
you did it inside a tag-bracket prolly means people didn't have trouble.

Thanks for asking! :)
Regards from
Tom :)



On 7 November 2013 01:51, Glen Reesor   wrote:


   

Hi,
I would like to help with LO documentation. I noticed that help has been
requested creating examples of LO Math (here<https://wiki.
documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Development#
Wish_Lists_for_Documentation>). Would this be a stand-alone document, or
in the wiki here<https://help.libreoffice.org/Math/Math_Examples>?

I was thinking of a doc that is similar to programming by example. There
would be a few sections (Basic, Intermediate, Advanced, perhaps). Each
section would contain a table with rows like this:

Display   Command
[Actual LO Math Image]LO Math Commands required to generate that
image

By the way, are html messages acceptable on this list?

- Glen

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] LO Math Help

[Glen Reesor]

Thanks for the note Tom.

As I mentioned in my previous email, I would like to help creating 
documentation for LibreOffice. I have created a list of common 
constructions for LO Math (exponents, roots, matricies, integrals, 
limits, piecewise functions , etc) and some common formulas (Pythagorean 
Theorem, quadratic formula, slope, binomial expansion, etc).


As far as I can tell, these would belong here:
https://help.libreoffice.org/Math/Math_Examples

The odfauthors.org website appears to be setup for creating and review 
libreoffice docs. What process is used for creating/reviewing/publishing 
parts of help.libreoffice.org?


What would be my next step in contributing this work?

Thanks in advance,

Glen


On 2013-11-07 05:38, Tom Davies wrote:

Hi :)
They are allowed and most people prolly can deal with them but it's best
avoided.

The links worked for me and i suspect people reading using a plain-text
email-client were prolly able to deal with those links so don't worry about
it this time.  I tend to try to put urls on a new-line and then start
another newline immediately afterwards.  I've seen people put full-stops
and other punctuation after them which messes up the link whereas the way
you did it inside a tag-bracket prolly means people didn't have trouble.

Thanks for asking! :)
Regards from
Tom :)



On 7 November 2013 01:51, Glen Reesor  wrote:

   

Hi,
I would like to help with LO documentation. I noticed that help has been
requested creating examples of LO Math (here<https://wiki.
documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Development#
Wish_Lists_for_Documentation>). Would this be a stand-alone document, or
in the wiki here<https://help.libreoffice.org/Math/Math_Examples>?

I was thinking of a doc that is similar to programming by example. There
would be a few sections (Basic, Intermediate, Advanced, perhaps). Each
section would contain a table with rows like this:

Display   Command
[Actual LO Math Image]LO Math Commands required to generate that
image

By the way, are html messages acceptable on this list?

- Glen

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[libreoffice-documentation] LO Math Help

[Glen Reesor]

Hi,
I would like to help with LO documentation. I noticed that help has been 
requested creating examples of LO Math (here 
). 
Would this be a stand-alone document, or in the wiki here 
?


I was thinking of a doc that is similar to programming by example. There 
would be a few sections (Basic, Intermediate, Advanced, perhaps). Each 
section would contain a table with rows like this:


Display   Command
[Actual LO Math Image]LO Math Commands required to generate that 
image


By the way, are html messages acceptable on this list?

- Glen

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