Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Calc wiki FAQ
Thanks, Hazel, for all your work. Just in time for a well-earned end-of-year break, if you want one. Otherwise, there's always more items on the to-do list. --Jean On 16 Dec 2013, at 3:09, Hazel Russman hazeldeb...@googlemail.com wrote: I have more or less completed these. There are a few which I have not included, as they are not really relevant for English speakers. And there are a couple in the charts section which I have not included because frankly I don't understand the subject! Someone else will have to translate those. Of course they all need checking and quite a few will need new English-language screenshots. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Copy documentation from OpenOffice.org?
On 3 Dec 2013, at 13:45, Gary Schnabl gschn...@swdetroit.com wrote: One point about screen captures that should be considered in authoring the user guides is eliminate their use in most cases in procedural documentation--and use them only if those instances where they are really useful. Describing the appropriate menu commands with their associated submenu commands should suffice for most of the directions. For some two decades already here in US (and likely most elsewhere) K-12 public and private schools, almost all kids routinely have computer experience by age five or younger. Assuming that the user guides are written for use by functionally literate folk, overloading documentation with screen captures is not much useful nowadays. In addition, not having many such graphics reduces the document size and allows for much easier page formatting, especially for smaller page or display sizes. Gary Many of the people who actually refer to the books keep requesting lots of screenshots and other illustrations. I agree that some of ours are unnecessary, and I often edit them out, but otherwise I believe we are producing what our audience prefers. --Jean -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Copy documentation from OpenOffice.org?
On 30 Nov 2013, at 17:20, C smau...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 7:42 AM, Robinson Tryon bishop.robin...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 6:54 AM, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Hi :) If we did copy the worst case scenario is apparently that we get served with a Cease and Desist or a Take down notice ... Plus the chance of being caught out is very small... .. If we don't copy and DO the translations ourselves and the result is much the same as the Apache one then wouldn't that be considered a copy anyway? ...so, i think that in this case it is worth taking the risk because the chance of it being a problem is fairly tiny and it's very easy to fix if there is a problem. (IANAL either) I think we should be careful about basing our policy on a quick cost vs. benefit risk analysis. If a licensing question arises in the course of our work, I propose that we try to resolve the particulars first and then copy code/documentation/media after we've gotten our ducks in a solid row. On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 4:45 PM, C smau...@gmail.com wrote: Unless otherwise stated, the FAQ pages on the OOo Wiki are under the PDL ( http://www.openoffice.org/licenses/PDL.html ). The PDL license wasn't added to every FAQ page for various reasons that made marginal sense at the time. Clayton -- Is there a way that the correct license could be added to those webpages and/or a note could be put somewhere online on the openoffice.org website that confirms the licensing? It would just make the whole process of verifying licenses before copying content much cleaner. FWIW, I'm not sure that the PDL is compatible with CC-BY-SA 3.0 (the license of the TDF Wiki): https://creativecommons.org/compatiblelicenses https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Qubit/license The simple answer is probably... no. Adding an explicit license retroactively was attempted many times (by myself and others) back when it was all still freshly uploaded on the Wiki. This was always met with loud protests and rollbacks (they would remove the license as quickly as I added it) by one or two (mainly one) very vocal community members (who weren't even documentation contributors). The best we/I could do at the time was set explicit licenses where we remembered (eg all the stuff under CC-By that Jean put into the Wiki), and we put the rest of the Wiki under a general PDL license (which was also loudly protested by the same one or two community members... no one else cared). The AOO community attempted to correct the licensing mess by keeping a blanket license in place (and more visible) that serves the same purpose as the blanket license that was in place when it was hosted by Sun. So, as it stands is what we have to work with (unless the AOO guys are willing to make the changes, but I think they'll face the same issues we did back in 2009-2011). The PDL is a bit of an odd animal making it slightly more complicated than it needs to be... a legacy of the Sun Microsystems days still haunting things :-P Even if the PDL was explicitly stated on every single Wiki page, I have a feeling you'd clash with CC-BY-SA anyway. Clayton PS:I have no quibble with whatever license is given to the documentation, and anything I personally wrote is free for anyone to use under any license. Some info, though I'm not sure what relevance it has to a decision about copying FAQs. The English Math FAQs were definitely on the OOo wiki before the fork, probably for several years. I checked the Internet Archive from just before the fork and have taken some relevant screenshots from the FAQ pages. The first page of the English FAQ explicitly has a PDL license at the bottom, but none of the Math FAQ pages that I looked at (under the heading Formulas) had any license at the bottom. --Jean -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Copy documentation from OpenOffice.org?
On 29 Nov 2013, at 13:20, Glen Reesor g...@jenniferandglen.ca wrote: I'm working on translating the Math FAQ from French to English and noticed that very good English versions of these questions exist athttps://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/FAQ/Formula div Given that LibreOffice forked fromOpenOffice.orgin 2010 (prior to the vast majority of content on thatOo.orgpage), is the licensing such that we can just copy these FAQs to the LibreOffice FAQs? - Glen I am checking on some facts related to that section of the wiki and will get back to you later today (it's early morning here in Australia). Meanwhile, Sophie or Clayton may have some memory of the history of those pages that would be relevant to this discussion. --Jean -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] Fwd: [libreoffice-marketing] Bug hunting session, December 6-7-8
Related to my previous note, if you're interested in getting even further involved in QA. The QA project is organizing a bug hunting session during the 4.2.0 beta2 period. It will be on the 6 to 8 of December, and could be longer of course. The page is here: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/BugHunting_Session_4.2.0 We will be present on irc and a Moztrap run will be available. Thanks in advance Kind regards Sophie -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] Printed copies of Math, Impress, and Draw guides
Printed copies of the LibreOffice 3.3 Math, Impress, and Draw guides are now available on Lulu.com: http://www.lulu.com/content/paperback/libreoffice-3-math-guide/16684176 LibreOffice Math Guide http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/libreoffice-3-impress-guide/16684124 LibreOffice Impress Guide http://www.lulu.com/content/paperback/libreoffice-3-draw-guide/16684152 LibreOffice Draw Guide The wiki and website have been updated, and it's on our blog, http://libodocs.wordpress.com/ I'm sure I've forgotten to do something or tell someone regarding these, so please either do it or tell them or mention it to me to follow up... ;-) The next edition (for v3.4) will have spiffy new covers with a variation on a design by Drew Jensen, and will be published in 6x9-inch page size (more like a real book) now that I have learned how to shrink the A4 pages with only a few clicks in Adobe Acrobat Pro. I can also produce PDFs scaled to fit US letter-size paper, so we could provide both A4 and US-letter editions if we wanted to. Not that I'm keen to take the time to do that for all the individual chapters; just saying that it can be done. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] LibreOffice Base User Guide: Getting started with macros
On Fri, 2011-08-26 at 17:42 +0100, Hazel Russman wrote: I have downloaded this chapter from the proofreading folder and mean to copy-edit it over the next few days. I have not done any LibreOffice work before, and I must say I find the Alfresco site confusing and difficult to navigate. If this were an OpenOffice doc, I would have retracted it as well as downloading it but so far I haven't found anything on the page corresponding to this operation. According to the guidelines I am supposed to put my wiki user id (whatever that is!)in the checkout column, but I can't see a checkout column either. I looked at the Help and couldn't make much of that. Hopefully someone will give me a bit of guidance. There are two versions of the user interface to the LibreOffice Alfresco site, which has been customised for the LO Docs team. Therefore the Help that comes with Alfresco isn't going to be much help; best to ignore it. David Nelson is still working on the customisation, so the chapter on Using LO's Alfresco website is out of date in some places and unlikely to be updated until David has reached a stable point in the customisation. So... at this time we are using this user interface to Alfresco: http://documentation.libreoffice.org/ NOT alfresco.libreoffice.org. The instructions in Using LO's Alfresco website are accurate for most of that user interface. (I will update that line in the document now, because that is the single most misleading statement in the existing document.) When using that interface, the instructions for editing offline show the row of icons that appear under the document (on the other interface, the icons are off to the right-hand side). The first icon (Edit Offline) locks the file (to show others that it is being worked on) and creates a working copy for you to download and edit. The statement about putting your wiki user id (whatever that is!) in the checkout column refers to a page on the wiki, not on Alfresco (similar to OOo's task list page). So far, I don't think anyone is actually using that LO wiki page to track work. Hope this helps, and sorry about the confusing instructions. Lastly, I don't see any docs in the Proofreading space for Getting Started, so I'm a bit mystified about what file you have attempted to check out. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] LibreOffice Base User Guide: Getting started with macros
On Sat, 2011-08-27 at 07:09 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: Lastly, I don't see any docs in the Proofreading space for Getting Started, so I'm a bit mystified about what file you have attempted to check out. Ah, now that I've read the subject line more carefully, I see that you collected this from the Base Guide space. Martin had put it in the wrong place; it belongs in Getting Started and has already been published. I'll move it. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] [Fwd: [tdf-announce] Election Announcement for The Document Foundation Board of Directors]
In case anyone here is not subscribed to the announce mailing list. And if not, why not? -- Jean Forwarded Message From: Simon Phipps webm...@documentfoundation.org Reply-to: nore...@documentfoundation.org To: annou...@documentfoundation.org Subject: [tdf-announce] Election Announcement for The Document Foundation Board of Directors Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 15:10:46 +0100 Having been asked by the Steering Committee and Membership Committee to act as the Elections Officer for The Document Foundation, it is my pleasure to announce that we will now conduct the election of a Board of Directors. This election is following the Bylaws [1] of our Foundation. The term is one year commencing from the date the Foundation is legally established. There are seven (7) board seats that are to be filled during this election. Three (3) additional deputies are to be selected, so the total of slots to be filled by election is ten (10). Members of The Document Foundation as of 2011-09-02 are eligible to vote in the elections. Anyone who has made a contribution to The Document Foundation can apply for membership by completing an application [2]. To vote, your membership also needs to be valid at least until the end of the elections (2011-10-26). Any eligible voter is also eligible to be elected to the Board of Directors. To announce your candidacy, send a message to steering-disc...@documentfoundation.org with your full name, e-mail, corporate affiliation (if any), and a description of your reasons for wanting to serve as a director. Candidacies must be announced prior to 2011-09-30, 23:59 UTC. All candidates should also send a summary of their candicacy announcement to electi...@documentfoundation.org - a compilation of the summaries will be mailed to all registered voters several days prior to the elections. Summaries should be no more than 75 words of continuous text (so no bullet lists or multiple paragraphs) and must be received by the nomination deadline given above. All discussion related to the elections should be held on disc...@documentfoundation.org where Members are invited to ask questions to one or all candidates. Instructions explaining how to vote will be sent via e-mail to all eligible voters by 2011-10-07. The 10 candidates voted for most as counted by a single transferable vote system [3] will be elected, except that no more than two individuals affiliated with any one corporation may be elected. Should more than two of the top ten vote-getters be affiliated with the same company, only the two with the most votes will be considered elected. In the event of a tie for the final seat on the board or the final deputy slot, the Membership Committee will schedule run-off elections as soon as possible. The Membership Committee will announce preliminary results as soon as possible after the elections close, along with instructions on how to access the votes archive and how to independently verify the vote count. Any eligible voter may challenge the preliminary results by e-mailing electi...@documentfoundation.org prior to 2011-10-26. The published decision of the Membership Committee as to any challenge shall be final. Once any challenges have been resolved, the Membership Committee shall announce the final results. Any questions regarding these procedures should be directed to the Membership Committee by e-mail to electi...@documentfoundation.org . The committee shall have the power to make any necessary changes or clarifications to these rules at any point during the elections. [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/CommunityBylaws [2] http://www.documentfoundation.org/foundation/application-for-tdf-community-membership/ [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Transferable_Vote -- Election Timeline (all deadlines are 23:59 UTC) 2011-08-23: Announcement of elections 2011-09-02: Freeze of membership applications, list of candidates opens. 2011-10-01: Last day to announce candidacies, submit summary statements. 2011-10-03: Final list of candidates is published. 2011-10-07: Instructions mailed to eligible voters, voting begins. 2011-10-17: Voting closes. 2011-10-20: Preliminary results are announced. 2011-10-26: Last day to challenge preliminary results. 2011-10-27: Announcement of final results -- This is a landmark in the history of The Document Foundation and I encourage all Members to participate fully. Regards Simon -- Simon Phipps, Elections Officer The Document Foundation -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to announce+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/announce/ -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems?
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Fwd: Bug 39998 - EXTENSIONSWEBSITE Help required How to Upload
On Thu, 2011-08-25 at 12:58 +0200, Andreas Mantke wrote: Hi Gustavo, all, sorry for crossposting. First a big thanks to Gustavo all the other contributors for their work on the documentation. Am Samstag, 13. August 2011, 23:15:35 schrieb Gustavo Pacheco: (...) The document is here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Installing_extensions.odt (I removed the date on the name). Can someone put the document on the libreoffice-website into the documentation section? I have not the necessary rights to do so. (...) After review, Andreas can put a link to a PDF version of this document from the every extension page on the site. I can link to the document very easy, if it is located on our website. I hope someone with the necessary rights will jump in and place the document on our website ;-) Regards, Andreas Other documentation (such as the user guides) is stored on the wiki and links to the wiki are put on the website. Why not do that with this document? --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Fwd: Bug 39998 - EXTENSIONSWEBSITE Help required How to Upload
On Thu, 2011-08-25 at 14:38 +0200, Andreas Mantke wrote: Hi Jean, *, Am Donnerstag, 25. August 2011, 13:20:37 schrieb Jean Hollis Weber: (...) Other documentation (such as the user guides) is stored on the wiki and links to the wiki are put on the website. Why not do that with this document? Isn't this a user guide? It's about installing an extension. Regards, Andreas Yes, so why not treat it the same as the other user guides? That was my point. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] List of updates for Getting Started with Libo 3.4.x
We have discussed my proposed reorganization of the book, but given the amount of work (both writing and reviewing) that would be involved to do a good job) I think it is better to simply update the existing set of chapters for V3.4 at this time. Therefore I have put a set of Getting Started files on Alfresco in English Content Documentation Getting Started Drafts V3.4.x Below is my list of what needs to be done to update to V3.4, plus some minor improvements (that could be skipped). These are collected here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Development#Getting_Started_Guide Similar lists for the other books are coming soon. --Jean GETTING STARTED GUIDE: Updates for LibO V3.4.x = General: check screenshots for changes. Use silver/gray theme for any replacements needed. In many cases (Chapter 4,5,6,7) the component guide will contain a newer image that can be used in this book without necessity of recapturing/redoing. On copyright page of each chapter: * Use data table coloring style for the table of Mac usage info. * Change LibO version number and publication date. Chapter 1 (Intro) * Verify system requirements and all URLs. * Passwords can now be changed while document is open; add to section on password protecting a doc. Chapter 2 (Setup) * Internationalized font previews: Fonts which are tuned for use with a specific script, e.g. Arabic, Hebrew, Malayalam, etc. now show an additional preview of some sample text in the target script. Mention in Setup bit on font preview Chapter 3 (Styles Templates) * Mention that manual (direct) formatting over-rides styles, and how to remove it. Chapter 4 (Writer) * Find toolbar: revise info * Add brief info on Paragraph and Character *style* dialogs to reinforce message that styles are preferred to manual formatting. * Mention that manual (direct) formatting over-rides styles, and how to remove it. * Slightly amend info on View Layout to say that the effect varies with zoom and window width. Chapter 5 (Calc) * Redesigned Move/Copy Sheet dialog (Edit-Sheet-Move/Copy) - put in section on working with sheets. * Add a few words on sheet tab colors (get words from Calc Guide). * Add a few words on total and subtotals? * Mention Pivot Tables (formerly DataPilot) and refer reader to Calc Guide. * Add a few words on functions and formulas, refer reader to Calc Guide. Chapter 6 (Impress) * Especially check this chapter for visual differences in the user interface. * Media clip is now Movie (especially in screenshots). * Add reference to bundled Presenter Console extension. Chapter 7 (Draw) * Curves toolbar is shown twice; second instance is redundant - remove it. * Use new pix from Draw Guide in several places. Chapter 8 (Base) * Needs to be checked for accuracy, in case something has changed. Somewhere I have a note with info on one error; I'll find it. Chapter 9 (Math) * Add reference to Math Guide the tables of info in it. Chapter 11 (Graphics) * Replace Imagemap dialog picture with one from Writer Guide. Chapter 14 (Customizing) * Color Charts: Adding and Removing color charts is now possible from Tools-Options-Charts-Default Colors. There is nothing about Chart colors in the book, and I think it fits better under Customizing (Ch 14) than it does under Setup (Ch 2). -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] Where do I find these features?
On the 3.4 New Features and Fixes page, http://www.libreoffice.org/download/3-4-new-features-and-fixes/ are two items that I can't figure out where to find in the program: * Separate borders width and style for Writer, Calc and Impress * Added new 3D border types to increase compatibility with loads of file formats Borders on what? Where? Paragraphs, tables, lines, other? I've looked on the Borders pages for all of those and don't see anything that looks different from before or fitting these descriptions. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] PING Andrew Martin: Updates for LibO 3.4.x Calc Guide
I have put on the wiki my list of updates needed for the LibO 3.4.x Calc Guide. http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Development#Calc_Guide I'm sure I've missed something or things could be put in better places, so feel free to add to or amend the list. Martin: I think you were going to work on Chapter 8 (Pivot Tables)? And perhaps some of the other chapters? Andrew: You may wish to review the two chapters you wrote? Thanks, all. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] PING Martin: Updates for LibO 3.4.x Draw Guide
Martin, I'll go through your notes from the update of the Draw Guide to try to find any further changes needed for v3.4.x and add them to the list on the wiki if I find any. I've put one there already: Eyedropper renamed to Color Replacer. http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Development#Draw_Guide --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] List of updates for LibO 3.4.x Impress Guide
I have put on the wiki my list of updates needed for the LibO 3.4.x Impress Guide. http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Development#Impress_Guide I'm sure I've missed something or things could be put in better places, so feel free to add to or amend the list. Also feel free to start working on updating the book! --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] Compiled Impress Guide ready for checking
Please check the *PDF* of the full Impress Guide, which you can get from Alfresco English Content Documentation Impress Guide Proofread (I'm having some difficulty uploading files to the wiki at the moment, so it's not there yet. I'll put it on the wiki when I can.) I suggest people pick different chapters *in the full PDF* to check. Please report any problems here on the list by giving the page number and the error. DO NOT use the chapter files for this purpose; many problems occur in the compiled book but not in the chapter files. DO NOT use the ODT for checking, because page breaks may be different on your system than on the one I used for creating the PDF. Please look for errors like this: * Missing x-refs (marked by Error! ) or wrong x-refs (usually to the wrong figure number) * Incorrect list numbering (not starting with 1, or following items in a list not numbered sequentially) * Missing figures * Up to date info on the copyright page (email address, date of publication, OOo version, and website address in footer) * Characters, words, graphics (especially circles and callouts on other graphics) in wrong places on the page * Conspicuously bad page breaks; for example, the lead-in sentence to a list on one page, with all of the list on the next page, or a table row split over two pages, or a very large blank space at the bottom of a page because a graphic or table has gone to the next page when it should not have done so * And anything else that looks wrong This sort of checking can be done fairly quickly, because you should be skimming, not reading in detail. At this point you should NOT primarily be looking for minor wording inconsistencies and other issues. Of course, if you find errors do let us know. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] Impress and Draw Guide files now on wiki
Impress and Draw Guide book files and changed chapter files are now on the wiki. I am getting the printed copies ready for publication, but will delay that a bit to give people time to check the PDFs for the inevitable errors. See my previous notes for instructions on what needs checking. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] List of changes needed to books for LO 3.4.x
No one else has indicated they're working on this, so I have started putting together a list of which chapters in which books need to have changes made to update files for LO v3.4.x. I will put this list on the wiki so others can get started doing the work... and also tell me what I've missed. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Draw Guide
On Sat, 2011-08-20 at 13:04 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) I have lost track again. Ages ago someone was worried about not being able to complete screen-shots for one of the Draw chapters. Was that the chapter that Jean sorted on the 18th Aug? No, that change was replacing an incorrect figure (similar to fixing a typo). or do we still need more screen-shots in another chapter? In Chapter 7, Working with 3D Objects, Figures 35 and 36 use an OpenOffice.org graphic in the example. This should, at some point, be replaced by a LibreOffice graphic. The person who offered to replace the figures was having difficulty recreating them. Whether this is important enough to hold up compiling the full book is another matter. I personally don't think so. BTW, final-checking of the OOo Draw Guide is turning up other errors (such as wrong figures) that I will fix in the LO book as well. So far no one has come forward to compile the LibreOffice Draw Guide, but I am encouraging people with experience at OOo to help out here. Thanks for the list in your follow-up note. That list will be very useful when updating the guide for LO 3.4.x. I agree that the figures don't need to be replaced in the 3.3.x guide at this time. And I notice that you did not spot the two figures in Chapter 7 with OOo in them. That does suggest that they are probably not a big problem. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] PING John Cleland: Are you there?
Hi John, Haven't heard from you since 2 August. Hope all is well with you. Perhaps you are on holidays? I know it's that time of year for those in the northern hemisphere. If you are unable to do the Draw Guide Chapter 7 replacement screenshots at this time, or compile the Impress Guide (both of which you offered to do), please let us know. There is no hurry on the screenshots (they can go into the V3.4.x version of the Draw Guide), but we do need to move ahead with compiling the Impress and Draw Guides. If you won't have time in the next week for the Impress Guide, that's fine; someone else can do it... but we'd like to avoid duplication of effort. Thanks! --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Introducing myself.
On Fri, 2011-08-19 at 11:52 +0100, Hazel Russman wrote: I have been working with ODF Authors for some time, mostly as a copy editor for the OpenOffice.org 3 User Guides, but I no longer have OOo on my computer. Instead I am running LibreOffice 3.4.2 under Crux Linux. I would therefore like to switch to editing LO documentation. Could you please give me author's rights on your site? -- Hazel Russman hazel_russ...@yahoo.co.uk Hazel, it's great to see you here. I'll set up your account on our Alfresco website. For email, do you want to use your yahoo account or your new googlemail account? --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Requesting a user account for Alfresco platform
On Fri, 2011-08-19 at 02:32 +, Lavanya Naidu K wrote: Hi Libreoffice documentation team! I am a new volunteer, a technical writer, willing to contribute to Libreoffice documentation. I have done my M.A.Public Administration, completed a certificate course in Technical Communication, and have worked for a software company as a Technical writer. I would like an account to be created for me, so that I can login to the Alfresco site. Looking forward to hear from you Thanks regards, Lavanya Hi Lavanya, One of us can do that for you, but you also need to subscribe to this list by sending an email to documentation+subscr...@global.libreoffice.org Your note above was in the moderation queue, along with other messages from people who are not yet subscribed to this list. Until you subscribe, you won't see any replies and any other messages you send will go to moderation, slowing things down. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Presentation Manual
On Wed, 2011-08-17 at 07:44 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: I thought we were cleverly waiting until the Draw screen-shots were finished for that 1 chapter and then publishing both books at the same time. Batch processing can be more efficient. Plus everyone that can do it is busy right now, especially Jean, so it was all working out quite nicely. For compiling books, batch processing (whatever you means by that) of more than one book is no more efficient than doing the books at different times. But yes, waiting to compile the Draw Guide until the last of the screenshots are redone is a good excuse, er, reason for the delay. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] Updated Chapter 2 of Draw Guide
Jared Kobos (ODFAuthors) discovered an error in Chapter 2 of the Draw Guide, which had an incorrect figure in it. I have now fixed the problem and replaced the ODT PDF of the chapter on the LO wiki (and changed the date on the Docs page) and replaced the ODT in Alfresco. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Fwd: Bug 39998 - EXTENSIONSWEBSITE Help required How to Upload
On Sat, 2011-08-13 at 11:26 +0300, David Nelson wrote: Hi Gustavo, On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 6:35 PM, Gustavo Pacheco gbpach...@gmail.com wrote: I have worked on the new Extensions website since a few weeks, to help Andreas to test the website's features. Then, I wrote two documents about it. I uploaded the documents to Wiki for revision at: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Extensions_Repository * Installing extensions ODT - PDF * Publishing extensions ODT - PDF I've added myself to the CC list for https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39998 and will track the subject to make sure your work gets into the available English documentation somewhere appropriate. @Jean: where do you think we should put this? -- David Nelson English Content Documentation Developers Guide seems like the best place for it. It also could fit under HowTos/Tutorials, but as it's aimed more at (extension) developers than end users, the DevGuide area seemed more relevant. Tom has put it on the wiki, but as it needs work, I thought adding it to Alfresco would be good. I am writing a note to the list seeking someone to tidy up the English and make any other needed changes. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Intention to publish Draw Guide today
On Sat, 2011-08-13 at 12:48 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: I'm now back from my latest travels. I propose to publish all the chapters of the Draw Guide on the wiki today (with links from the website). The Draw Guide chapters are now on the wiki, with links from the website. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Fwd: Bug 39998 - EXTENSIONSWEBSITE Help required How to Upload
On Sat, 2011-08-13 at 12:15 +0300, David Nelson wrote: Hi, On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 11:32 AM, Jean Hollis Weber jeanwe...@gmail.com wrote: English Content Documentation Developers Guide seems like the best place for it. It also could fit under HowTos/Tutorials, but as it's aimed more at (extension) developers than end users, the DevGuide area seemed more relevant. Tom has put it on the wiki, but as it needs work, I thought adding it to Alfresco would be good. I am writing a note to the list seeking someone to tidy up the English and make any other needed changes. I just downloaded and had a brief look at the two files. Installing_extensions_08-11-2011.odt would seem like content to replace the extensions coverage in 0109GS3-SettingUpAndCustomizing.odt of the GS guide Publishing_extensions_08112011.odt would indeed seem to fit in the DevGuide area, but I suspect it's still a work in progress, because I'm not sure that http://extensions-test.libreoffice.org/ is yet at a mature state, and I don't know if Andreas and Gustavo will maintain the material we keep on Alfresco. I can put Publishing_extensions_08112011.odt on my list of longer-range to-do's, after the Power User guide, for proofreading and correction, once the work on Alfresco is much more advanced. @Gustavo, @Andreas: any comments? -- David Nelson I had missed Installing extensions and only saw Publishing extensions. I have now looked at Installing extensions and see that it is indeed a how-to based on the Getting Started guide chapter on Customizing. It needs only a bit of tidying up, including the info on the copyright page. Your comment on Publishing extensions suggests that removing the pointer to the file from the Docs wiki (where Tom had put it) might be best at this point. BTW, if I were editing Publishing extensions I would crop the screenshots to take off the browser's title bar, menu bar, and address bar. They aren't relevant to what's going on, and removing them (especially the address bar) will make the images relevant for longer -- at least until the web page itself is redesigned. However, at this point cropping the existing images may not be worth the effort, because the web page probably will change. So my comment applies more to someone capturing replacement images when the time comes. This looks like a document that anyone with good English skills could usefully edit. I think it's a good project for someone wanting to get involved here without a big commitment, yet it's more interesting and more work than the minor tidying up that most of our existing user guide material needs. It could be a good before and after example for someone to add to their portfolio. Anyone interested? --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Fwd: Bug 39998 - EXTENSIONSWEBSITE Help required How to Upload
On Sat, 2011-08-13 at 12:19 +0200, Rainer Bielefeld wrote: Jean Hollis Weber schrieb: but I suspect it's still a work in progress, Hi, yes, I also think so, and also your suspect that the Web page still might be modiufied is plausible. The current document is a very good base information that will have to be filled with more knowledge we are gathering testing the Website. I suggested to add notices on http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Talk:Extensions_Repository#Improving_Documentation Rainer, at what point do you think it is worth someone's time to improve the English? Will someone tell us when it is ready? I put some comments on that Talk page, but the typos and English corrections are easier done in the ODT file itself. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] Minor update to Joining the LibreOffice Documentation Team
I have just uploaded an update to the document Joining the LibreOffice Documentation Team (intro-libo-docs-team.odt) in the Docs Resources space. All I did was update the email addresses for the mailing list. I'd hoped to do some more with the content of that chapter, but it's not going to happen soon (no time), but I didn't want to lead any newcomers astray with an email address that didn't work. BTW, I have suggested to the members of the ODFAuthors group (who work on OOo user guides) that they might help out on LibreOffice docs, especially until the transition to Apache OpenOffice.org settles down. Several members are here already, but I hope some of the others will come along too. Also we get a lot of enquiries from interested people, some of whom would be a definite asset here as well as on OOo docs. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] GS Macro Chapter New Version Ready but....
On Sat, 2011-08-13 at 13:54 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) I thought the GS Guide was going to keep a chapter on Macros but a separate book was going to appear later to expand on that. Just like Writer and the apps have their own books but also have a chapter in the GS Guide? I think there already is an excellent guide written by Andrew and i would like us to link to it while making it clear that it is a third party book rather than one produced by the docs team here. Yes, a link to Andrew's book should definitely be added. It was in the OOo GS book (in Chapter 1, where other sources of info are listed under How to Get Help), but apparently it was removed at some point from the LibO GS chapter before publication. As for whether to retain the Macros chapter in GS, most people who spoke up said they wanted it kept there, so I guess we're keeping it. I still haven't looked at the re-organising that Jean has suggested but i suspect that the re-organising would be a good thing to do. There are probably tiny inconsequential issues that i might end-up arguing about until i look at those issues in-depth. What do other people think of the propsed changes? Is there an easy link to a list of proposals? I thought I had put it on the LibO wiki, but I can't find it. I'll add it to the wiki when I have time, but meanwhile you can read the OOo version here (I had made the same proposal to both groups): http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Dashboard/Proposal_Revise_Getting_Started --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] GS Macro Chapter New Version Ready but....
On Sat, 2011-08-13 at 23:26 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) I thought it was on the wiki too. I haven't explored much. I've now added my proposals for both GS and WG to the wiki: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Proposal_Revise_Getting_Started http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Proposal_Revise_Writer_Guide Ch1 seems to be a merging and of the current CH12 into a more logical order? No, current Ch2 was moved to end of book. I think the Math chapter has been absorbed into other chapters. No, Math chapter is proposed for removal because we have the Math Guide. Base and Macros removed. But there is a lot more in the detail so i think it's better if i have a closer look later before discussing it in the list. Good idea. ;-) Also comparing it to the existing ToC makes it easier to see what's removed and what is rearranged. --Jean I liked the flow of the proposed Ch1 Regards from Tom :) From: Jean Hollis Weber jeanwe...@gmail.com To: documentation@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Sat, 13 August, 2011 22:24:23 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] GS Macro Chapter New Version Ready but On Sat, 2011-08-13 at 13:54 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) I thought the GS Guide was going to keep a chapter on Macros but a separate book was going to appear later to expand on that. Just like Writer and the apps have their own books but also have a chapter in the GS Guide? I think there already is an excellent guide written by Andrew and i would like us to link to it while making it clear that it is a third party book rather than one produced by the docs team here. Yes, a link to Andrew's book should definitely be added. It was in the OOo GS book (in Chapter 1, where other sources of info are listed under How to Get Help), but apparently it was removed at some point from the LibO GS chapter before publication. As for whether to retain the Macros chapter in GS, most people who spoke up said they wanted it kept there, so I guess we're keeping it. I still haven't looked at the re-organising that Jean has suggested but i suspect that the re-organising would be a good thing to do. There are probably tiny inconsequential issues that i might end-up arguing about until i look at those issues in-depth. What do other people think of the propsed changes? Is there an easy link to a list of proposals? I thought I had put it on the LibO wiki, but I can't find it. I'll add it to the wiki when I have time, but meanwhile you can read the OOo version here (I had made the same proposal to both groups): http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Dashboard/Proposal_Revise_Getting_Started --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: Intention to publish Draw Guide today
Tom, no I forgot to tell Tim Drew. Perhaps you could pass this info on to them as well as any other people or lists you think might want to know? BTW, I have posted to the blog today about the Draw Guide. http://libodocs.wordpress.com/ Also BTW, the compiled Draw or Impress Guides will be done when someone has time to do them. I have no idea when that might be. John Cleland offered to do the Impress Guide after he finished the replacement pix for the Draw Guide. --Jean On Sat, 2011-08-13 at 13:31 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) +1 Have Tim Drew been notified? I am wondering if the other Dvd Projects, such as Brazilian and German (and soon India too) might want to be notified? I will ask as the Dvd Projects are a hot-topic on one of the other lists right now. On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 11:54 AM, Jean Hollis Weber jeanwe...@gmail.com wrote: The Draw Guide chapters are now on the wiki, with links from the website. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] GS Macro Chapter New Version Ready but....
On Sat, 2011-08-13 at 11:30 +0300, David Nelson wrote: On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Jean Weber jeanwe...@gmail.com wrote: In addition to what I said below, I forgot to mention that this is a *corrected* V3.3 chapter, intended to replace the published one that had conspicuous errors in it. I therefore intend to tidy it up (if any last-minute tidying is necessary) and (re)publish it asap. OK, thank you for that. :-) Now done. The files on the wiki and the ones in Alfresco have been replaced with the corrected chapter. Many thanks to Andrew and Martin for doing this. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] Intention to publish Draw Guide today
I'm now back from my latest travels. I propose to publish all the chapters of the Draw Guide on the wiki today (with links from the website). When John Cleland is able to update some screenshots in Chapter 7, we can replace that chapter with the updated one. Publishing what we've got now takes the pressure off John while making the Draw Guide available to users. I hope this is okay with everyone. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] PING Jean GS Macro Chapter replacement
On Mon, 2011-08-08 at 12:34 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Thanks :) I took the opportunity to add the link http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Development#First_steps_with_the_Documentation_team to the front page for the documentation team http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation Regards from Tom :) Thanks, Tom. The Docs section of the wiki needs a lot of reorganisation, so until someone does a major overhaul, small changes may mean big improvements! BTW, I like the coloured bits in the list of user guides. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] PING Jean GS Macro Chapter replacement
On Sun, 2011-08-07 at 20:12 -0400, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak wrote: Sorry to be a bother, but I do not know my way around well, and, I could not find the document that tells me how things should look, and, I do not want to change things if I am not sure that they should be done. So, where is the do it this way documentation? I am sorry for all the questions, but, this is my first LO document so I assume that the documents are as they should be and that everyone knows more than I. The Documentation Contributors' Guide is still being written. The existing chapters are in two places: on the wiki (linked from this page) http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Development#First_steps_with_the_Documentation_team and on Alfresco under English Content Documentation Resources, where you will also find the current chapter template (don't get the book template by mistake; there are some differences). Ignore the chapter titled Using LibreOffice's Alfresco website as it is very out of date and bears only occasional resemblance to the current website; David will update it when he finished tweaking the current site. For example: QUESTION: A newly inserted figure (that is nicely done, by the way), does NOT contain a caption and is not in a frame. My instinct is to add a caption and place the figure in a frame, because it looks like this is true for all other figures. My assumption is that either (1) there is a reason this does not need to be done like the others, (2) Martin forgot, (3) Martin did not know better, or, the most likely yet, (4) Martin did everything perfectly, and Jean pulled it out and removed the caption to test me :-) Not this time! I haven't touched the file. However, to answer the question, figure captions are not always necessary (this is discussed in one or another of the chapters of the Contributors' Guide) but in the case most likely Martin forgot. QUESTION: With OpenOffice.org, I always wrote OOo. For LibreOffice, should I use LibO rather than LO? We have been avoiding using an abbreviation, as there has been no real consensus about what abbreviation to use. Some books, such as the Getting Started guide, were done before we had sorted out some of the consistency issues, so you'll find it both internally inconsistent and not consistent with some of the other books. This will get sorted out in time. QUESTION: In the document, I found new text that reads similar to: click Tools → Options → LibreOffice → General and tick the box ItalicsEnable experimental (unstable) features/Italics. I expected to see: use OOoMenuPathTools → Options → LibreOffice → General/OOoMenuPath and tick the box OOoMenuPathEnable experimental (unstable) featuresOOoMenuPath. You are correct. But we don't use tick the box; in this case I would say ...and select the OOoMenuPathEnable experimental (unstable) featuresOOoMenuPath option. If I wanted Italics, I expected to use the OOoEmphasis style. That is correct. COMMENTS FOR MARTIN: Martin, your new figures look great and it seems that you paid good attention to detail. I will change wording where it is not sufficiently precise; for example, when you state that the Writer Library is selected, it is really the Writer Module in the Martin Library. Without checking, my guess is that I introduced this error in the original. Thanks, Andrew! --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] PING Jean GS Macro Chapter replacement
On Sat, 2011-08-06 at 20:28 -0400, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak wrote: On 08/06/2011 04:42 PM, Martin Fox wrote: On Sat, 06 Aug 2011 12:30:46 +1000 Jean Hollis Weberjeanwe...@gmail.com wrote: Andrew, if you and/or Martin can do the job of updating the chapter, that would be best. I really don't have time. Don't worry about matching the appearance of screenshots, and as you say differences are less obvious when you leave off the title bar. --Jean Jean I did the edit and uploaded the revised doc into the Documentation, Getting Started Guide, Reviewed Folder, for wont of a better place to put it. I hope I picked up the ideas of Andrew ok. regards Martin Ummm, well, ummm. I do not have any access to the LO Alfresco stuff, so, if someone can send the file to me until I work out that little detail I'll set up an account for you and also send the file to you. Give me 10 minutes. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] GS Macro Chapter replacement
On Fri, 2011-08-05 at 09:05 -0400, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak wrote: On 08/05/2011 03:17 AM, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: On Fri, 2011-08-05 at 08:50 +0200, Martin Fox wrote: On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 13:11:03 +1000 Jean Hollis Weberjeanwe...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, 2011-08-04 at 21:58 -0400, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak wrote: I suppose that I have good news and bad news... Thanks for reporting these problems, Andrew. Evidently the person who final-checked that file before publishing it (probably me) did an unusually poor job. I will fix most of it, but I may have to ask you questions about the screenshots. I don't know about the timing of the LO extension library. I know it's been under development for some time, but I don't know the latest info about it. --Jean Andrew - thanks for the input. Jean - if you need a hand with checking this I could help out a bit. regards to you both Martin I will definitely take you up on that offer! In fact, if you wanted to grab the file and make all the corrections Andrew noted and check on the unclear things and fix the screenshots, I'm sure both he and I would be delighted to have you do so. ;-) I can try to make the fixes myself this weekend if you desire. Screen shots might be a problem since I am on Fedora with the latest version of gnome. Unsure how to generate a screen shot that would match anything else. Probably not as obvious if I ignore the main window bar, however. Slowly trying to plug-away at an updated version of OOME as well. There does not seem to be enough time in the day. Did I mention that I do not like the LO color scheme? Something about the green feels very busy. Never felt that way about the blue in OOo. Odd. Nice twist for marking things such as tips, by the way. Off to work with me now. Andrew, if you and/or Martin can do the job of updating the chapter, that would be best. I really don't have time. Don't worry about matching the appearance of screenshots, and as you say differences are less obvious when you leave off the title bar. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Repeating Chapters
On Thu, 2011-08-04 at 09:05 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: ... it might also be good for the Mac's quick little table at the start of all guides to show key combination equivalents of right-click and stuff. Yes, definitely on the list for those chapters and books that don't already have that info. Thanks for the reminder. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Repeating Chapters
On Thu, 2011-08-04 at 19:54 +1000, Ian Leyton wrote: On 4/08/11 6:37 PM, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: On Thu, 2011-08-04 at 09:05 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: ... it might also be good for the Mac's quick little table at the start of all guides to show key combination equivalents of right-click and stuff. Yes, definitely on the list for those chapters and books that don't already have that info. Thanks for the reminder. --Jean Just remember that the newer Mac's do actually have a right-click and so does the Mac Magic mouse. The default is just set to the same one as the left. They just need to change the secondary click in System Preferences to right from left. Then it is almost the same as other systems with what it does. Thanks, Ian! I didn't know that. The Mac I'm (occasionally) using isn't new, and anyway I use a Microsoft mouse on it because switching mouse types between the Windows, Linux, and Mac computers drives me nuts... and the MS mouse gives me the right-click capability. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] GS Macro Chapter replacement
On Thu, 2011-08-04 at 21:58 -0400, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak wrote: I suppose that I have good news and bad news... I do take exception to a few items that were done while converting this from OOo to LO (as it were); and perhaps a few dumb things that I may have done... [snip] The screen shots showing OpenOffice.org macros rather than Libreoffice macros in screen shots of the macro organizer are probably fine, but, they are wrong. Lots of work to fix those... One example is Figure 6. A glaring omission in the document is that it does not mention that LO requires that recording macros must be enabled (Tools Options LibreOffice General and then check Enable experimental (unstable) features). That is not required in OOo. Any idea when the extensions library for LO will be online? It is referenced, but it takes you to a WIKI. Thanks for reporting these problems, Andrew. Evidently the person who final-checked that file before publishing it (probably me) did an unusually poor job. I will fix most of it, but I may have to ask you questions about the screenshots. I don't know about the timing of the LO extension library. I know it's been under development for some time, but I don't know the latest info about it. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] File naming proposal
Before we leap into renaming the files, I'd like to mention what the numbers mean. This info is in Producing LibreOffice User Guides btw. --- File names take the following form: AABBCC3-Name, where AA=book number, BB=chapter number, CC=book initials, 3=LibreOffice V3 (s/w version number), Name=Chapter name. For example, the third chapter of the Writer Guide, Working with Text, has the following file name: 0203WG3-WorkingWithText.pdf I agree with David that we don't need the book number, but I personally find the chapter number quite handy as it sorts the chapters in order on my computer. But it would need to go after the book initials if the book number is dropped, or the various books would sort with all the chapter 1s first, the chapter 2s second, etc, if someone stores them all in one folder like I often do. We also discussed the need for the s/w version number to change from 3 to 33 (v3.3.x) or 34 (v3.4.x). So I propose for the new filenames to take the form: CCnnBB-Name, where CC=book initials, nn=s/w version number, BB=chapter number, Name=Chapter name. Example: WG3403-WorkingWithText.pdf is the third chapter of the Writer Guide for LibreOffice 3.4.x --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Updating user guides to LibO 3.4.2
On Tue, 2011-08-02 at 11:33 +0300, David Nelson wrote: Hi Jean, On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 7:07 AM, Jean Hollis Weber jeanwe...@gmail.com wrote: In preparation, we should archive the files for v3.3.x so we don't overwrite them with the updated files. Translators may wish to have access to these files, without them becoming a moving target. David, how do you think this is best done in Alfresco? A separate space under English Content Documentation for V3.3.x with all the v3.3.x user guide content under that, or a space under each individual guide See below... for v3.3.x (leaving the existing spaces for work in progress) -- for example, English Content Documentation Writer Guide V3.3.x archives? I could make an argument for either solution. So we'd have English Content Documentation Writer Guide V3.3.x and English Content Documentation Writer Guide V3.4.x Then we could move the Drafts, Proofread, Reviewed and Published folders under English Content Documentation Writer Guide into English Content Documentation Writer Guide V3.3.x, create English Content Documentation Writer Guide V3.4.x and duplicate the Drafts, Proofread, Reviewed and Published folders there for updating then. I think that this would be the better solution from the viewpoint of the groups and permissions we'll set up after discussing the details on the list. Does that seem OK to you? Why do we need to preserve the 4 subspaces for the archived docs? I don't have any objection to doing so; just wondering about your reason. If we did decide to do as described above, I guess it would be rational to do it now before spawning the 3.4 docs. It would involve renaming every doc and inserting meta data; I'm perfectly OK to take part in that job or even do it all myself once/if we have agreed on the meta data. I could manage in in a pre-announced and approved one-day session, so that work does not get held up for other people. But guys would have to check-in all checked-out docs beforehand, and then check them out again after the process was finished. Okay with me, as long as I'm not doing the work. ;-) While updating chapters, we also want to replace any remaining screenshots with ones to match the agreed theme or that still contain OOo-related info that was missed earlier. So what do we decide in the end? Go with your XP silver theme? Use the default theme from whatever distrib or OS the screenshooting person uses? Are we agreed that Windows screenshots are OK subsequent to the SC's kind-of pronunciation/recommendation about that? Or do we recommend a particular theme that can be availed in Windows/Mac/*nix versions? Or do we pragmatically accept whatever we can get from contributors, making the entry barrier as low as possible? I think the consensus was: recommend, but not require, the Ubuntu XP-Silver theme. A similar-looking theme on other platforms is okay, but over time we'd like to replace non-standard images with those from a single platform/theme. I think this meets the pragmatic requirement (with which I agree) but works towards a more professional-looking result. The word pragmatically sort-of suggests my own POV, but I'll go with whatever decision you and the team arrive at (unless other team members strongly and rapidly veto your recommendation, I think we should adopt it and move on quickly). We also need to decide whether to go ahead with my proposed reorganisation of the Getting Started guide and the Writer Guide -- or perhaps with some subset of my proposal. Richard Holt is working on changes to Getting Started, but there was some difference of opinion about some of my suggestions on both that book and the Writer Guide, so I'm unclear whether we're all agreed on the way to move forward. I really don't want to see everyone sitting around waiting for a consensus. My own POV would be to make that a low priority or prefer to press ahead with new stuff. But I'll be guided by what you feel is best and +1 whatever you recommend (which I reckon we should adopt unless there is a strong veto by other team members). Two items I suggested can be done fairly quickly (dropping the Creating Web Pages chapter and the Keyboard Shortcuts appendix from Getting Started), but other items would take more work and/or are controversial. So at this point I think it's best to do only those two changes while updating the factual info for v3.4.x. That's assuming, of course, that a full set of files for 3.4.x is the way to go, instead of what Nino has just mentioned, which I'll return to in another note. Also, *not* split the Writer Guide, since that was controversial. Time constraints may also mean not adding new chapters (that is, any that need to be written) to the Writer Guide on this update cycle. Work on them, yes; get them ready for the following update cycle. But don't hold up the book to get them in. --Jean -- Unsubscribe
[libreoffice-documentation] [Fwd: [odfauthors-discuss] Chapter 1 of Base Guide]
Dan Lewis is revising the draft chapters of the Base Guide that he produced some time ago. Some of those draft chapters needed a *lot* of editing, so I assume he's doing that. (I haven't looked at this one yet; just passing on the info.) I will collect this chapter from the ODFAuthors website and put a copy in the relevant space on Alfresco. Whoever works on the LibO Base Guide can decide what to do with this one and the rebranded earlier draft. --Jean Forwarded Message From: Dan Lewis elderdanle...@gmail.com To: ODF Authors odfauthors-disc...@lists.odfauthors.org Subject: [odfauthors-discuss] Chapter 1 of Base Guide Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2011 13:09:53 -0400 As promised, I have uploaded this chapter to the web site. URL: http://www.odfauthors.org/openoffice.org/english/userguide3/db3/dbg3_draft/introducing-base/view It may take a couple of weeks to complete a rewrite of chapter 2, Planning and Desiging. If I can finish sooner, I will. Dan -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] GS Macro Chapter replacement
On Tue, 2011-08-02 at 14:40 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) The Macros chapter's Pdf needs replacing fairly quickly. At the moment it shows editing changes with deleted text in red and scored through with a line. The Odt is fine, it's just the Pdf that's gone wonky. Should be fixed now. Thanks! --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] taggedPDF and bookmarks by default?
On Tue, 2011-08-02 at 21:28 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) I have played around with a few simple little files at home and found the increase is usually about 1% but occasionally reaches 5%. I think it depends on the complexity of the files, for example whether they contain tables and figures and cross-references and other things that our docs are full of. A simple file may not have the items that lead to complex tagging requirements that add a lot to the filesize. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Wiki
On Tue, 2011-08-02 at 20:27 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Blimey! I got a tad carried away today! I've stopped editing the wiki for today and probably wont touch it for a few months now! There are still a few things that annoy me but they don't seem to be important just yet. Thanks all :) Good fun! Thanks, Tom. The Full book listings still need a date and page size indication, but someone else can add that. Especially the date, to make it clear that a compiled book may not contain the latest iteration of all the included chapters. (If we could solve the intermittent x-ref goofup problem, recompiling a book would be a lot faster and easier and thus could be done more often if errors in individual chapters are corrected.) --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Updating user guides to LibO 3.4.2
On Tue, 2011-08-02 at 19:48 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: I don't think the Keyboard Shortcuts Creating Web-pages should be dropped. But that's because i think of the GS as a general overview of all the apps and everything, rather than as a beginners guide. I was hoping the keyboard-shortcuts would be expended to help Mac users. Well, GS isn't a general overview of everything; a lot is missing, some of which is IMO more important than those two chapters. But no one has come forth to write about other things. Creating Web Pages is IMO a total waste of space. It doesn't talk about the sort of things that most people are likely to want to do (edit web pages as well as create them). It just describes how to use a wizard to export from the various components to create very crappy and out-of-date HTML... not something I would want to encourage anyone to do. You might have a better case about retaining Keyboard Shortcuts. If we do keep it, yes it's probably worth having someone with a Mac add the Mac info. Most of what's in the chapter is copied directly from the Help, btw. Mac users see keyboard help for the Mac. I have a Mac, but I'm not motivated to expand that chapter. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Updating user guides to LibO 3.4.2
On Tue, 2011-08-02 at 13:05 +0200, Nino Novak wrote: For end users the file name should be kept as simple as possible but not missing *important* info. If you really intend to offer a complete set of new documents for each minor version step, the version info should go into the file name. If only major versions are to be fully reflected in the documentation, there is no need to put version info into the file name (as there are several years in between them). Minor versions should then be reflected by e.g. in-chapter-icons (available since LibO 3.4 or similar). In my eyes, the latter seems more reasonable, but I'm not involved in the (English) Doc team work. I have been thinking about the pros and cons of a new doc set vs new in 3.4 info in the same chapter, but I have not had time to read up on just what has changed from 3.3.x to 3.4.x. Sometimes relatively minor functional differences mean that fields are moved from one dialog box to another, or the names of things change, or other changes are made that are difficult to handle clearly in a single file. Other times, what you suggest works well. When I've had time to look at the changes, I'll have something less vague to say on the subject. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Updating user guides to LibO 3.4.2
On Tue, 2011-08-02 at 12:35 +0200, Nino Novak wrote: Am Dienstag, 2. August 2011, um 11:14:22 schrieb Jean Hollis Weber: David, I'll respond to the rest of your note later, but for now I want to address just one item: We can then copy those files into the Drafts spaces, update them, and save them under different names -- to avoid confusion and to enable us to put them on wiki along with the 3.3.x files. For example, 0101GS34-ChapterTitle.odt instead of 0101GS3-ChapterTitle.odt. I'd love to get the versioning info out of the file name and into the document's meta data, so that - for instance - 0101GS34-ChapterTitle.odt would become ChapterTitle.odt and that doc's meta data contains all the info we want to store about that doc. AFAIK, unless the filenames are different between the 3.3.x and 3.4.x versions of a chapter, they cannot both be stored on the wiki. Sorry my ignorance, but ... what exactly was the rationale of storing the files in the wiki? Couldn't you/we keep the files in Alfresco and just linking them from the wiki? So the problem of identical filenames should be solvable. David would know, but I don't think that would work. At the moment you need a login to get to files on Alfresco, so I would think a link from the wiki would fail. Also, the location of files on Alfresco occasionally changes, so the links could get mucked up. At this time we are not storing the PDFs on Alfresco, but that could change. There is some merit in not keeping two copies of the published chapters (one on Alfresco and one on the wiki), so your suggestion could be useful if it's technically feasible. I think David has agreed to include some meta info in the filename, so the different names on the wiki issue is taken care of... and those of us who want that info for other reasons are, I hope, happy too. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] PING David: user-docs needing a writer
On Wed, 2011-08-03 at 06:45 +0300, David Nelson wrote: Hi Jean, On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 6:19 AM, Jean Hollis Weber jeanwe...@gmail.com wrote: * Guide aimed specifically at technical writers and/or other power users. There is a DocPlan and some work done by students earlier, which could be a starting point, but IMO it's really too low-level. Their work might go better into a guide aimed at high-school or university students. I've got a more detailed draft table of contents for the Tech Writers' Guide on the OOo wiki, which I haven't had a chance yet to copy over to our wiki (but will try to do soon, if no one else does it first). http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Dashboard/Tutorials/Targeted I've long had a little bookmark in my head to one day work on the Power User's Guide, working from that Tech Writer's Guide that those two students did. That would logically include some good coverage of macros, by the way. I'd need to brainstorm with you and other power users about that, but I guess you could put me down for this not-so-little task. But I need to finish wrestling with the alligator Alfresco as top priority, and with the Drupal site at media.libreoffice.org. As you know, I'm working on preparing the Alfresco upgrade, which promises to be no mean feat. So I'm guessing that I wouldn't envision being able to think about any power user's guide until sometime in September... But let's say I'll take that as a project. Great! That's a non-urgent, but IMO important, project, and one of my personal interests, so I'm really glad to hear you'll take it on. I'll contribute however I can: brainstorming, reviewing, whatever. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] PING David: user-docs needing a writer
On Wed, 2011-08-03 at 06:48 +0300, David Nelson wrote: Hi Sigrid, Jean, Tom, On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 11:30 PM, Sigrid Carrera sigrid.carr...@googlemail.com wrote: Are you sure? The mail from Malte Timmermann said something that tagged pdf's are 30 - 50 % bigger than the non-tagged ones. And in this case I trust Malte, because he's the developer working on that stuff. My 2 cents that it might be worth the extra download size to improve the usability. Specifically, what would we need to mark up with tags? Does anyone have any idea what's required in terms of actual work? Tom answered that question: tick a box when producing the PDF. My concern is still with filesize bloat, especially for the full book, so I'm still advocating two files: tagged and non-tagged. The individual chapters may not be such a big issue if provided only the the tagged version. I need to think a bit more about the tradeoffs. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Updating user guides to LibO 3.4.2
Thanks for that clarification, Tom. I'm sure I once knew that but had totally forgotten. That makes a lot of my recent assumptions and thinking obsolete. I need to re-think the arguments for one set of files (like Nino suggested) or two -- not an archived set vs a live set, but separate sets for the 3.3.x series and the 3.4.x series. And I see why we might need two sets of Draft-Reviewed-Proofread-Published spaces... My initial reaction is two sets of files, but that really increases the need for reusable material (the majority of info that is the same for both series)... done in a way that doesn't confuse the contributors. I WILL dig up my notes on how to do this, as mentioned in an earlier message to this list. Further comments welcome. Might help me sort out my thinking... if it doesn't further confuse me. chuckles / --Jean On Wed, 2011-08-03 at 04:55 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) I'm sure there is some confusion somewhere. The 3.3.x series is not older and the 3.4.x new. Both series are being developed alongside each other. The next release of LO is due to be the 3.3.4 due out on Aug 17th give or take a day or 2. Then the 3.4.3 on Aug 31st and 3.4.4 on Oct 5th followed by 3.3.5 on Oct 19th. Regards from Tom :) From: Jean Hollis Weber jeanwe...@gmail.com To: documentation@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Wed, 3 August, 2011 4:33:50 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Updating user guides to LibO 3.4.2 On Tue, 2011-08-02 at 13:05 +0200, Nino Novak wrote: For end users the file name should be kept as simple as possible but not missing *important* info. If you really intend to offer a complete set of new documents for each minor version step, the version info should go into the file name. If only major versions are to be fully reflected in the documentation, there is no need to put version info into the file name (as there are several years in between them). Minor versions should then be reflected by e.g. in-chapter-icons (available since LibO 3.4 or similar). In my eyes, the latter seems more reasonable, but I'm not involved in the (English) Doc team work. I have been thinking about the pros and cons of a new doc set vs new in 3.4 info in the same chapter, but I have not had time to read up on just what has changed from 3.3.x to 3.4.x. Sometimes relatively minor functional differences mean that fields are moved from one dialog box to another, or the names of things change, or other changes are made that are difficult to handle clearly in a single file. Other times, what you suggest works well. When I've had time to look at the changes, I'll have something less vague to say on the subject. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] Re: [Fwd: [odfauthors-discuss] Chapter 1 of Base Guide]
I have now done this. --Jean On Wed, 2011-08-03 at 10:06 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: Dan Lewis is revising the draft chapters of the Base Guide that he produced some time ago. Some of those draft chapters needed a *lot* of editing, so I assume he's doing that. (I haven't looked at this one yet; just passing on the info.) I will collect this chapter from the ODFAuthors website and put a copy in the relevant space on Alfresco. Whoever works on the LibO Base Guide can decide what to do with this one and the rebranded earlier draft. --Jean Forwarded Message From: Dan Lewis elderdanle...@gmail.com To: ODF Authors odfauthors-disc...@lists.odfauthors.org Subject: [odfauthors-discuss] Chapter 1 of Base Guide Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2011 13:09:53 -0400 As promised, I have uploaded this chapter to the web site. URL: http://www.odfauthors.org/openoffice.org/english/userguide3/db3/dbg3_draft/introducing-base/view It may take a couple of weeks to complete a rewrite of chapter 2, Planning and Desiging. If I can finish sooner, I will. Dan -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] GS Macro Chapter replacement
It's correct for me, when I open it in the browser directly from the link on http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation or when I download it and open it. Sounds like a problem at your end at this point. --Jean On Wed, 2011-08-03 at 05:34 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) The tool-tips when i hover with the mouse says 0113GS3-GettingStartedWithMacros.pdf and when i download it it's called the same 0113GS3-GettingStartedWithMacros.pdf and that's the name that appears when i go in to edit the wiki. There doesn't appear to be a redirect hidden in the page's coding. Regards from Tom :) From: Jean Weber jeanwe...@gmail.com To: documentation@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Wed, 3 August, 2011 5:26:26 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] GS Macro Chapter replacement OK, something's wrong; the wiki may be pointing to the wrong filename, not the file I just uploaded. I found this problem on a couple of other GS chapters in the past; the wiki has some old files on it that are not being updated as they should. The website simply points to the wiki, so yes there is only one file. I'll look into it. Please tell me the actual filename you are getting, not the title of the file. That should help me track down what I should be fixing. --Jean On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 14:17, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Hi :( It's still the wrong one on the wiki and on the website http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/documentation/ http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation (same file?) GS Ch13 Getting Started With Macros The Odt that is uploaded doesn't have the comparison stuff. Regards from Tom :) From: Jean Hollis Weber jeanwe...@gmail.com To: documentation@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Wed, 3 August, 2011 3:51:55 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] GS Macro Chapter replacement On Tue, 2011-08-02 at 14:40 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) The Macros chapter's Pdf needs replacing fairly quickly. At the moment it shows editing changes with deleted text in red and scored through with a line. The Odt is fine, it's just the Pdf that's gone wonky. Should be fixed now. Thanks! --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Base
On Mon, 2011-08-01 at 19:25 +0200, Sigrid Carrera wrote: Hi Tom, On Mon, 1 Aug 2011 18:13:42 +0100 (BST) Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Hi :) I think we should avoid writing any documentation for Base. I have kept trying to encourage people and draw in people that seemed keen to do some but now i agree that we should abandon any effort on it. It seems that TDF is not going to do anything to support Base so there is no point in documentation for it. Apparently most linux users prefer PostgreSQL or MySQL/MariaDB (or Drizzle on the Cloud) so it seems we should point people to those rather than Base. I don't understand your reasoning? Why wouldn't you want to write documentation for Base? You still need documentation, if you want to use Base as a frontend to connect to one of those databases that you mentioned. So, in my opinion, there is some need for user docs. We should definitely tell people, that the built-in database is not really secure, but that they can choose any other database they like. So, definitely not dropping. (My opinion, of course.) Sigrid I was under the impression that some (or much?) of LibreOffice Base doesn't work, so people get very frustrated in trying to use it. Is that true? Or is the problem only with the built-in database, but Base works fine as a front-end to other d/b? If the latter, then yes we should certainly document how to use it as a front-end to other databases... if we can find people with the knowledge and time to write that documentation. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] wiki page
On Mon, 2011-08-01 at 18:43 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Ok, i have removed Chapter and Appendix from a couple of the guides and definitely prefer it. The way i have split long titles onto 2 lines is not ideal. I tried putting borders around the table but it looked mad. Perhaps a - mark at the beginning of each title? If there is a wiki table cell attribute for align=top or similar, that should take care of it. I don't recall the exact syntax, but I've used something like that in other wikis. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] PING David: user-docs needing a writer
(Others are welcome to jump in too, either with ideas or with offers to write something.) David, here are some of the topics I've identified as needed to supplement our user guides. I've added them to the wiki page if they weren't there already. http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Production#Wish_List_for_User_Documentation * Tutorial on using XForms. We have some background info and a paper (by J David Eisenberg) that we can revise, if we wish. See links on wiki page. * Guide aimed specifically at technical writers and/or other power users. There is a DocPlan and some work done by students earlier, which could be a starting point, but IMO it's really too low-level. Their work might go better into a guide aimed at high-school or university students. I've got a more detailed draft table of contents for the Tech Writers' Guide on the OOo wiki, which I haven't had a chance yet to copy over to our wiki (but will try to do soon, if no one else does it first). http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Dashboard/Tutorials/Targeted * Guide aimed at students: List of possible topics is also on the OOo wiki page given above. * Guide aimed at small business and volunteer organisations. The same OOo wiki page has a short list of topics to cover in such a guide, but I'm sure there are more. * Guide to using assistive technology with LibO: see Ron Faile's first cut at this, linked from the wish list on our wiki page. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] Updating user guides to LibO 3.4.2
Now that we have almost finished producing the first set of user guides (for LibO 3.3.x), it's time to start work on updates for 3.4.2, which has just been released. This should not be such a big job, so we should be able to get through it much more quickly than we did with the first edition. In preparation, we should archive the files for v3.3.x so we don't overwrite them with the updated files. Translators may wish to have access to these files, without them becoming a moving target. David, how do you think this is best done in Alfresco? A separate space under English Content Documentation for V3.3.x with all the v3.3.x user guide content under that, or a space under each individual guide for v3.3.x (leaving the existing spaces for work in progress) -- for example, English Content Documentation Writer Guide V3.3.x archives? I could make an argument for either solution. We can then copy those files into the Drafts spaces, update them, and save them under different names -- to avoid confusion and to enable us to put them on wiki along with the 3.3.x files. For example, 0101GS34-ChapterTitle.odt instead of 0101GS3-ChapterTitle.odt. Then, when the 3.4.x files begin to be published, they should be made available on the wiki as well as (not instead of) the 3.3.x files, because many people may continue to use 3.3.x for some time and need access to the 3.3 files. Also in preparation, we need to go through the features list to see what needs to be changed. Making a table of chapters and needed changes (on the wiki) can be very helpful here. While updating chapters, we also want to replace any remaining screenshots with ones to match the agreed theme or that still contain OOo-related info that was missed earlier. We also need to decide whether to go ahead with my proposed reorganisation of the Getting Started guide and the Writer Guide -- or perhaps with some subset of my proposal. Richard Holt is working on changes to Getting Started, but there was some difference of opinion about some of my suggestions on both that book and the Writer Guide, so I'm unclear whether we're all agreed on the way to move forward. I really don't want to see everyone sitting around waiting for a consensus. What have I missed or forgotten? --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] Impress Guide chapters published on wiki
I've uploaded the Impress Guide chapters to the wiki. They are linked from http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation I intend to update the get-help/docs page on the website tomorrow, if no one else does it before then. John and anyone else who may be reviewing chapters: if you find anything that needs to be corrected or improved upon, we can either issue an updated file or keep the edits for inclusion in the next revision. Your work won't go to waste! I'm now working on the Draw Guide and expect to have that done sometime in the next few days. Same deal: I'll publish the first edition asap, and then when people have time to review it, corrections can be made. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] Draw Guide Chapter 7 needs some replacement pix
Some of the pix in DG Ch 7 use OpenOffice.org as sample text in the demonstration of using Fontwork. Personally I don't see this as a big drama to leave them as is in the first edition of the book, and I don't have the energy to replace them, so if someone wants to do the work -- SOON -- please go ahead! The file is in English Content Draw Guide Drafts. I've left a comment by the pix that need replacement. Thanks! --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] Correction: Draw Guide Chapter 10 needs some replacement pix
On Sun, 2011-07-31 at 20:59 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: Some of the pix in DG Ch 7 use OpenOffice.org as sample text in the demonstration of using Fontwork. Personally I don't see this as a big drama to leave them as is in the first edition of the book, and I don't have the energy to replace them, so if someone wants to do the work -- SOON -- please go ahead! The file is in English Content Draw Guide Drafts. I've left a comment by the pix that need replacement. Oops! I meant Chapter TEN (10) not 7 for the Fontwork pix. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] Draw Guide Chapter 7 needs some replacement pix
This is the correct note about Chapter 7. Both Chapter 7 and 10 can use some help, if anyone thinks it's important enough. Some of the pix in DG Ch 7 use OpenOffice.org as sample text. As with the Fontwork pix in Ch10, I don't see this as a big drama to leave them as is in the first edition of the book, and I don't have the energy to replace them, so if someone wants to do the work -- SOON -- please go ahead! The file is in English Content Draw Guide Drafts. I've left a comment by the pix that need replacement. Thanks! --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] wiki page
On Sun, 2011-07-31 at 22:09 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) I have started editing the wiki page a bit, using tables to spread the information out as rows are getting a bit crowded now. Finding the dates the chapters were last modified is not as easy as i thought so i will login to Alfresco later to check the dates there. I might experiment with a bit of colour but will probably keep experimenting a bit over the next hour or so. Regards from Tom :) Tom, don't use the last updated dates on Alfresco as a guide to when a chapter or book was actually *published* -- the Alfresco dates are often quite a bit later, because the files may have been moved or some details changed in the Alfresco metadata or some other change may modify the date displayed there without affecting the contents of the files themselves. I think at this point the easiest way to find a date for most of the chapters is to open the compiled book PDF and use the publication date from its copyright page for all the chapters in that book. Improving the layout of the wiki page is good; that was on my to-do list, so I'm glad you're doing it instead of me. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] wiki page
On Mon, 2011-08-01 at 01:11 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Thanks :) I have finished messing with the wiki for now. I hope to complete the other sections in the same way and then do the bit that i set out to do, ie put the dates in!! lol. Sorry! Hopefully the layout makes it easier for people to edit the wiki and looks reasonably ok. I chickened out of playing around with colours. Perhaps tomorrow. The chapter title for Ch12 in the Writer Guide was a tad long so i gave it 2 lines. Is it better that way or shall i put it back tomorrow? Two lines for very long titles is good IMO. I suggest the same for Appendix B of the Getting Started guide (drop OpenDocument) to the next line. BTW, there should be no space in OpenDocument -- that is probably a typo from long ago that no one has got around to fixing. Minor suggestion: is the word Chapter needed? It seems a bit redundant when the heading is Separate chapters: so perhaps doing it this way would work? 1 Introducing LibreOffice 2 Setting up ... 3 Using Styles ... ... ... A Keyboard Shortcuts B Open Source ... What do people think? --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Correction: Draw Guide Chapter 10 needs some replacement pix
Thanks for the good, fast work, John! Are you planning to do the pix in Chapter 7 as well? They are not Fontwork but do have OpenOffice.org in them, as mentioned in a separate note from me yesterday. If you don't have time, that's okay too. First release of the Draw Guide is almost done. Yay! --Jean On Sun, 2011-07-31 at 17:57 +0100, John Cleland wrote: Hi Jean Chapter 10 Fontwork screenshots done. Regards John -Original Message- From: Jean Hollis Weber Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 12:04 PM To: LibreOffice Documentation Subject: [libreoffice-documentation] Correction: Draw Guide Chapter 10 needs some replacement pix On Sun, 2011-07-31 at 20:59 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: Some of the pix in DG Ch 7 use OpenOffice.org as sample text in the demonstration of using Fontwork. Personally I don't see this as a big drama to leave them as is in the first edition of the book, and I don't have the energy to replace them, so if someone wants to do the work -- SOON -- please go ahead! The file is in English Content Draw Guide Drafts. I've left a comment by the pix that need replacement. Oops! I meant Chapter TEN (10) not 7 for the Fontwork pix. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] wiki page
On Mon, 2011-08-01 at 01:48 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) I'm happy to take out the word Chapter but then the formatting would look strange for Appendix. If i drop Chapter then i think we should drop Appendix too. I do think it might look nicer without both. I could test it out tomorrow and see what people think for a day. Well, that's what I meant, and what my example showed. ;-) I will take out the space in OpenDocument tomorrow. I think we should also drop the space in OpenSource in the 2nd release. I added the space tbh to make it fit with the rest of the title but now it's inconsistent with the front page of the guide. Open Source is two words. If it's not that way on the document itself, the doc is wrong. --Jean It's awkward to make tables all the same width. I don't know how to set them as a percentage of screen width so some people would get horizontal scroll-bars which tends to make the page even more inelegant than having a little local variation. Regards from Tom :) From: Jean Hollis Weber jeanwe...@gmail.com To: documentation@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Mon, 1 August, 2011 1:27:14 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] wiki page On Mon, 2011-08-01 at 01:11 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Thanks :) I have finished messing with the wiki for now. I hope to complete the other sections in the same way and then do the bit that i set out to do, ie put the dates in!! lol. Sorry! Hopefully the layout makes it easier for people to edit the wiki and looks reasonably ok. I chickened out of playing around with colours. Perhaps tomorrow. The chapter title for Ch12 in the Writer Guide was a tad long so i gave it 2 lines. Is it better that way or shall i put it back tomorrow? Two lines for very long titles is good IMO. I suggest the same for Appendix B of the Getting Started guide (drop OpenDocument) to the next line. BTW, there should be no space in OpenDocument -- that is probably a typo from long ago that no one has got around to fixing. Minor suggestion: is the word Chapter needed? It seems a bit redundant when the heading is Separate chapters: so perhaps doing it this way would work? 1 Introducing LibreOffice 2 Setting up ... 3 Using Styles ... ... ... A Keyboard Shortcuts B Open Source ... What do people think? --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] Need a volunteer to compile the Impress Guide
This isn't urgent, though it would be nice to get it done in the next few weeks. As with all documentation, the sooner the better IMO... especially with a product that is updated as frequently as LibreOffice. The full Impress Guide needs to be compiled from the individual chapters, using the master document. This may involve a certain amount of manual fiddling around, as described in Producing LibO User Guides. If whoever volunteers for this task is not familiar with the details of the process, I can provide more info or pointers to info or answer specific questions. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Need a volunteer to compile the Impress Guide
On Mon, 2011-08-01 at 05:26 +0300, David Nelson wrote: Hi Jean, On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 4:57 AM, Jean Hollis Weber jeanwe...@gmail.com wrote: This isn't urgent, though it would be nice to get it done in the next few weeks. As with all documentation, the sooner the better IMO... especially with a product that is updated as frequently as LibreOffice. The full Impress Guide needs to be compiled from the individual chapters, using the master document. This may involve a certain amount of manual fiddling around, as described in Producing LibO User Guides. If whoever volunteers for this task is not familiar with the details of the process, I can provide more info or pointers to info or answer specific questions. If no-one else steps up to do it sooner, I volunteer to do it during August sometime. It'll do me good to get my head out of web development and do some *real* docs work. David, IMO writing something new to fill in some gaps in the docs (perhaps creating how-to's) would be even better use of your time and skills than compiling a book... though as a break from web development, book compilation might be kind of restful. :-) --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Need a volunteer to compile the Impress Guide
On Mon, 2011-08-01 at 05:56 +0300, David Nelson wrote: Hi Jean, On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 5:45 AM, Jean Hollis Weber jeanwe...@gmail.com wrote: David, IMO writing something new to fill in some gaps in the docs (perhaps creating how-to's) would be even better use of your time and skills than compiling a book... though as a break from web development, book compilation might be kind of restful. :-) OK, would you like to point me at something specific? One thing that needs doing, once you've sorted out the alfresco share site, is updating the contributors' guide chapter on using Alfresco so it agrees with reality. You're probably the best person to do that. It may not be real user docs, but it's essential for helping new volunteers get up to speed. English Content Documentation Resources using-Alfresco.odt I'll also find my list of user-doc topics (some of which may be on the wiki) and get back to you in the next few days. As soon as I've finished with the Draw Guide, I intend to get back to updating the other chapters of the contributors' guide, as well as fostering more discussion on this list about what we want/need to do next (updating user guides vs producing new stuff, among other topics). --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] PING Jaimon Jacob Re: Impress
On Sat, 2011-07-23 at 20:45 -0700, Jaimon Jacob wrote: Hi all, Sorry...I was too busy at work to be involved here. I will try to help what I can though. I have checked out a document from Impress for reviewing. Jaimon Hi Jaimon, I see you have Chapter 2 of the Impress Guide checked out since 11 July. I appreciate that you are busy and may not have time to spend on it just now, but could you give us an idea of when you might have it finished? The rest of the book is almost ready to publish. If you won't have time soon to finish it, could you check in what you've done and I'll finish the work on that chapter? Thanks! --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] Impress Guide, Chapter 9
I've made some changes to Chapter 9, Slide Shows, including adding a section on using the bundled Presenter's Console extension. It would be good if someone else would check over this chapter, preferably within the next day or two. I really would like to get the first edition of this book -- or at least the individual chapters -- published asap. Thanks! --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Hungarian translation
On Thu, 2011-07-28 at 15:49 +0300, David Nelson wrote: Hi Gergely, On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 7:54 PM, Gergely Marcell Honti honti.marc...@gmail.com wrote: Hi guys! The first chapter is ready in hungarian! I spoke to the translator, who wrote a book about libreoffice, he told that there is no group in Hungary, that is in documentation, so right there I am alone for it, but I try to do as much as I can. My question is: how to upload the chapter? And could I get the logo for it? Hobbit Sorry about the tardy reply... Maybe you'd like to use the chapter template for the file? You could find that on Alfresco (http://documentation.libreoffice.org) under Repository English Content [en - English] Documentation Resources. That would solve the logo question (although logo resources are available on the Design team wiki at http://wiki.documentfoundation.org). A copy of the logo used in the template for English docs is also in the Resources space on Alfresco. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: Proposed Revision of Writer Guide
On Thu, 2011-07-28 at 16:03 +0300, David Nelson wrote: Hi, On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 3:53 PM, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Hi :) Yes, that's where it gets tricky. Could an introduction to the basics of macros be general enough? That's the question now i guess. If specifics for specific packages could help people grok macros better while only being a short paragraph or 2 in the chapter then it might work? Alternatively perhaps just 1 page or 2 added to the chapter in each of the apps? Regards from Tom :) @Jean: what's your POV about that, Jean? The current Macros chapter (written by Andrew Pitonyak) in the Getting Started guide was intended to be fairly generic, though it does focus mainly on Writer. Andrew then wrote a variation for the Calc Guide, which focuses more on Calc-related usage. We didn't reuse the macros chapter from GS in the Writer Guide; at the time we were avoiding duplication of chapters. However, it would be easy to include the GS macros chapter in the Writer Guide if people wanted to. IIRC, we didn't think macros are much used in Impress or Draw, so we didn't bother with chapters for them. If we did want chapters in those books, we should ask Andrew for his opinion and see if he has some suitable material already written to use for examples of use. I suggest anyone interested in this topic have a look at the existing two chapters and see what is actually in them and the reuse potential of that material. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: Proposed Revision of Writer Guide
On Tue, 2011-07-26 at 16:52 +0300, David Nelson wrote: Carrying on my train of thought... For instance, in our guides, we provide very generic information targeting a general user base. So how about special guides targeting particular user bases? A guide, covering all the LibO components for students writing a thesis? For a small business or SOHO looking to its admin and accounting needs? For engineers working on a design project? For a school's course needs? Etc... The books would be backed-up by downloadable or CD-ROM-based accompanying templates, spreadsheets, databases, presentations, etc. I think this is the kind of stuff that might well sell well in book form. And imagine if we had school and university text books to offer... that might notch up a bit more in sales, too... I totally agree with you about the desirability of targeted guides or tutorials; I've been advocating them for years, both here and at OOo. Again, the problem is finding people with the combination of background knowledge, writing skills, and time to put together suitable work. http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Dashboard/Tutorials/Targeted --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: Proposed Revision of Writer Guide
On Wed, 2011-07-27 at 06:14 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: On Tue, 2011-07-26 at 16:52 +0300, David Nelson wrote: Carrying on my train of thought... For instance, in our guides, we provide very generic information targeting a general user base. So how about special guides targeting particular user bases? A guide, covering all the LibO components for students writing a thesis? For a small business or SOHO looking to its admin and accounting needs? For engineers working on a design project? For a school's course needs? Etc... The books would be backed-up by downloadable or CD-ROM-based accompanying templates, spreadsheets, databases, presentations, etc. I think this is the kind of stuff that might well sell well in book form. And imagine if we had school and university text books to offer... that might notch up a bit more in sales, too... I totally agree with you about the desirability of targeted guides or tutorials; I've been advocating them for years, both here and at OOo. Again, the problem is finding people with the combination of background knowledge, writing skills, and time to put together suitable work. Just to make clear to everyone what I mean by background knowledge: when writing for a specific audience, knowing what that audience's actual needs are (what specific tasks they may wish to perform), and knowing the terminology used by that audience, is very helpful for creating relevant information at the right level... and in many cases much more important than simply knowing how to use the software. I have seen a lot of answers on the OOo forums from people who clearly did not understand the question they were answering, because the question is on a topic outside their background knowledge; so the answer may be correct (in terms of how the software works) but irrelevant because it does not actually answer the question. I've also seen this problem frequently in third-party books. Of course, a team of people can often do the job better than one person: some members of the team may know the questions (and possibly the answers), while others may know how to achieve the necessary results using the software but not be skilled in writing in English, and yet others might be better able to do the writing once they have the necessary information. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Impress -- please use LibO 3.3.x
A reminder to anyone working on the Impress or Draw Guides: please use LibreOffice 3.3.x, NOT 3.4.x, for the first edition of these books. This is because there are differences between the 3.3 and 3.4 versions. Linux users please note: for documentation, it's also best to use the 3.3.x downloaded from the LibreOffice website, NOT the one included with your distribution. Again, there are (or may be) some differences. When we update all the books, we'll use 3.4.x. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Impress -- please use LibO 3.3.x
Hmmm... On the LibO (3.3.2) that was installed with my upgrade to Ubuntu 11.04, I see Galaxy as one of the icon style choices in Options LibreOffice View. So I don't know what's going on with your setup. --Jean On Sun, 2011-07-24 at 22:37 +0100, John Cleland wrote: Hi I have installed Linux, Ubuntu 10.2. I downloaded LibreOffice from PPA. There is no option to use Galaxy in the Options view. Is this because I have downloaded the version from the PPA and not from the LibreOffice website. Or is this because of Linux/Ubuntu. Regards John -Original Message- From: Jean Hollis Weber Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 9:42 PM To: documentation@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Impress -- please use LibO 3.3.x A reminder to anyone working on the Impress or Draw Guides: please use LibreOffice 3.3.x, NOT 3.4.x, for the first edition of these books. This is because there are differences between the 3.3 and 3.4 versions. Linux users please note: for documentation, it's also best to use the 3.3.x downloaded from the LibreOffice website, NOT the one included with your distribution. Again, there are (or may be) some differences. When we update all the books, we'll use 3.4.x. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Error in Getting started - introducing impress
On Sun, 2011-07-24 at 23:32 +0200, Sigrid Carrera wrote: Hi, we're translating the guides currently and we found the following error in the getting started guide: You'll find the following text there: Caution In Linux-based systems such as Ubuntu, media do not work straight out of the box. You need to download the Java Media Framework API (JMF) and add the path to jmf.jar to the Class Path in Tools → Options → LibreOffice → Java. I just had the confirmation, that LibreOffice 3.3 uses gstreamer instead of the JMF. So this caution box needs changing. And possibly the full impress guide too. Thanks, Sigrid. Indeed that will need to be changed in the Impress Guide as well as in the GS chapter. That's one of several items I hope we find and change while working on the IG chapters. (I've got to look up what the others are.) --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Impress Guide_Introducing Impress
David Nelson wrote, Jaimon Jacob wrote: One doubt again. It is said in Libreoffice Styleguide, Make sure that the names of user interface items (menus, icons, options, dialog boxes, and windows) match what appears in the application. Does it mean that the GUI elements (name of windows, menus, dialog, or any word appear on the GUI) should be formatted using OOomenupath character style? I see GUI elements formatted with Ooomenupath in procedures but not when mentioned in other parts. Just making sure... Basically the idea is to match the wording and capitalization, as regards menus, menu items, etc., and to use the same icons seen in screenshots. I can't suggest a definitive recommendation about the use of OOomenupath. I see at least one occurrence of OOoEmphasis used for the same purpose in Chapter 2, Producing LibreOffice User Guides, for instance. My 2-cent suggestion would be to use OOomenupath systematically? The chapter template includes a summary of the styles and their intended uses. Gary Schnabl was updating the discussion in the template. I was intending to extract that info from the template (after Gary's updates) and copy it into another chapter of the Documentation Contributors' Guide, to make answers to this type of question easier to find. --Jean P.S. Yes, I've returned from my latest travels, which were excellent, fabulous, awesome... also exhausting. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Remove personal information on saving?
On Mon, 2011-07-04 at 06:57 -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote: one more trivial observation before i have to head for actual work -- again, in the SettingUpLibreOffice doc in the alfresco repository, there's this explanation in the security options section: Remove personal information on saving Select this option to always remove user data from the file properties when saving the file. To manually remove personal information from specific documents, deselect this option and then use the Delete button under File → Properties → Genelra but if i go under that submenu, i see no Delete button. am i simply not in the right place, or not seeing it? As Nino said, it's probably the one labelled Reset, incorrectly identified in the Help as Delete. Robert, from evidence so far you will be a *huge* asset for the group in reviewing/proofing the existing docs for errors, omissions, differences between releases, and probably spotting what's missing. Welcome aboard! --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] Draw Guide
Well, that's all from me tonight. I've left some discussion notes on Alfresco about the files I haven't done new screenshots for. Also note that Martin Fox has not gone through Chapters 8, 9, 10 yet, so there may be some content updates to come. Also those chapters have some figures that need adjustment to fit within the page margins. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Draw Guide
On Sun, 2011-07-03 at 09:50 +0100, John Cleland wrote: Is there a guide on how to create the master document. Not really. I think the info in the chapter on producing LibO user guides assumes one already has the master doc itself. I was going to suggest starting with an existing master doc for another book, but I can't find any on Alfresco. I suspect I was going to make some corrections to the ones I have before uploading them... and never got around to it. That is now #1 on my list for tomorrow. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] Jean away again
I'm leaving on Wednesday (Australia time) to spend two weeks in a remote part of Australia (The Kimberley, for those of you who know the area), and I expect to be a lot less in touch than on my last outback trip (where we found more mobile phone access than I had expected). I'm sure you will all carry on quite well without me. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Draw Guide
On Sat, 2011-07-02 at 08:00 +0100, John Cleland wrote: Hi Jean I have uploaded the chapter Introducing Draw. I think I have changed the Branding to LibO. I haven't changed the screenshots yet as I need to download Linux to do this. If you get a moment can you look through it and see if this is correct. Thanks for all your help. OK, will do. A quick look shows a few things that you probably wouldn't have known about, which I can fix quickly. (I'll list them for you after I've gone through the chapter more carefully.) Also, I have a few minor editorial changes that came out of working this week on the OOo Draw Guide, so I'll make them too. I also have quite a few LibO Draw screenshots from Linux that can be dropped in to replace the ones that need replacement. Those use the silver theme that I've been using. Most of the pix in the other chapters of the OOo Draw Guide don't show anything OOo (unlike in this chapter), and almost all of the pix were taken on Linux, so they should be okay as a first cut. My view is: do this book quickly and then when the design docs teams have sorted out what theme is official someone can replace all the screenshots then. Otherwise production of this book, and the Impress Guide, will drag on far too long. I have just replaced Chapters 2 through 7 in the Draw Guide Drafts folder with ones that have been further edited and updated for OOo. Martin Fox, who did the updating, says he checked it in both OOo and LibO. So if you continue with the rebranding, be sure to get the latest copy. Also, we've got to sort out something so the files show as checked out by you, or I may end up duplicating work you're doing. For example, I had just checked out Chapters 1, 2, and 3, having forgotten that you were working on Chapter 1. Just as well I then took a break and came back to find your note. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Draw Guide
On Sat, 2011-07-02 at 17:56 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: On Sat, 2011-07-02 at 17:54 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: On Sat, 2011-07-02 at 08:00 +0100, John Cleland wrote: Hi Jean I have uploaded the chapter Introducing Draw. I think I have changed the Branding to LibO. I haven't changed the screenshots yet as I need to download Linux to do this. If you get a moment can you look through it and see if this is correct. Thanks for all your help. More (non-obvious) rebranding things: Chapter title needs to have two blank spaces after the chapter number (before the linebreak) and no blank spaces at the beginning of the next line (before the actual title). This makes things line up correctly (especially with long chapter titles that wrap around) as well as making everything come out correctly when the chapters are compiled into a book. This chapter needs to have the Mac keystrokes info on the copyright page. I think all the other chapters now have it. I'm not sure how you're doing the changes to the notes tips tables, but it's causing extra blank paragraphs to be inserted. I have set up an AutoFormat for each of the table types and apply the appropriate one to the table, so the spacing doesn't change. Unfortunately, AutoFormats, like AutoText, don't get saved in the template. Tables of data have a slightly different appearance too. Again, I've set this up as an AutoFormat, so it's easy to apply to an existing table. Copyright page acknowledgements are unusually wordy in this book, and quite a long list, so I suggest a slightly different approach from the other books, as follows. Only the last line will change from what is now in each of the chapters. This chapter is based on an original French document written for OpenOffice.org 1.x by Michel Pinquier (translated into English by Alex Thurgood) and previous content revised by Jim Taylor. The chapter was revised for OpenOffice.org 2.0 by Linda Worthington, Daniel Carrera, Jean Hollis Weber, and Agnes Belzunce, and later translated into German by Wolfgang Uhlig. The German revisions were then translated into English and revised for OpenOffice.org 3.3 and LibreOffice 3.3 by Martin Fox. Other contributors included Peter Hillier-Brook, Hazel Russman, Gary Schnabl, and Claire Wood. I can make the small adjustments necessary in this chapter and drop in the pictures that I have available, then check it back in. If you want to work on Chapter 2, I'll cancel my checkout on that one and do chapter 3 next. --Jean Oh, and I forgot: We should put Martin Fox's name in the Contributors list for these LibO chapters, because he checked them for LibO as well as OOo when he was updating them. --Jean Spotted another thing: The Tip tables should have a different background color on the Tip cell. Tips are blue, Notes green, Cautions yellow. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Draw Guide
On Sat, 2011-07-02 at 18:05 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: On Sat, 2011-07-02 at 17:56 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: On Sat, 2011-07-02 at 17:54 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: On Sat, 2011-07-02 at 08:00 +0100, John Cleland wrote: Hi Jean I have uploaded the chapter Introducing Draw. I think I have changed the Branding to LibO. I haven't changed the screenshots yet as I need to download Linux to do this. If you get a moment can you look through it and see if this is correct. Thanks for all your help. More (non-obvious) rebranding things: Chapter title needs to have two blank spaces after the chapter number (before the linebreak) and no blank spaces at the beginning of the next line (before the actual title). This makes things line up correctly (especially with long chapter titles that wrap around) as well as making everything come out correctly when the chapters are compiled into a book. This chapter needs to have the Mac keystrokes info on the copyright page. I think all the other chapters now have it. I'm not sure how you're doing the changes to the notes tips tables, but it's causing extra blank paragraphs to be inserted. I have set up an AutoFormat for each of the table types and apply the appropriate one to the table, so the spacing doesn't change. Unfortunately, AutoFormats, like AutoText, don't get saved in the template. Tables of data have a slightly different appearance too. Again, I've set this up as an AutoFormat, so it's easy to apply to an existing table. Copyright page acknowledgements are unusually wordy in this book, and quite a long list, so I suggest a slightly different approach from the other books, as follows. Only the last line will change from what is now in each of the chapters. This chapter is based on an original French document written for OpenOffice.org 1.x by Michel Pinquier (translated into English by Alex Thurgood) and previous content revised by Jim Taylor. The chapter was revised for OpenOffice.org 2.0 by Linda Worthington, Daniel Carrera, Jean Hollis Weber, and Agnes Belzunce, and later translated into German by Wolfgang Uhlig. The German revisions were then translated into English and revised for OpenOffice.org 3.3 and LibreOffice 3.3 by Martin Fox. Other contributors included Peter Hillier-Brook, Hazel Russman, Gary Schnabl, and Claire Wood. I can make the small adjustments necessary in this chapter and drop in the pictures that I have available, then check it back in. If you want to work on Chapter 2, I'll cancel my checkout on that one and do chapter 3 next. --Jean Oh, and I forgot: We should put Martin Fox's name in the Contributors list for these LibO chapters, because he checked them for LibO as well as OOo when he was updating them. --Jean Spotted another thing: The Tip tables should have a different background color on the Tip cell. Tips are blue, Notes green, Cautions yellow. --Jean Last one, I hope: OOo book uses the style Chapter n (Chapter Title) but LibO books use Chapter n, Chapter Title, --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Parallel install
On Sat, 2011-07-02 at 11:49 +0200, Nino Novak wrote: On Saturday, 2. July 2011 11:25:11 Jean Hollis Weber wrote: On Sat, 2011-07-02 at 10:21 +0200, Nino Novak wrote: [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Installing_in_parallel ... I've got the parallel installs ( LibO 3.3.3, LibO 3.4.1, and the LibO 3.2 that comes with Ubuntu) working now on Ubuntu 11.04. Fine. Did you follow the steps described above? No, that was much too geeky for me. I did a simpler (for me) variation. I have no idea why I had problems at first, because it later started working and I didn't change anything. Could you tell how yo did it? Nino Probably, but not tonight. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: Proposal for major revision of Getting Started Guide
Tom, this is also being discussed at ODFAuthors; Andrew is one of our macro gurus and wrote Getting Started with Macros and the macro chapter in the Calc Guide amongst other things -- including some helpful macros for us. In this case I can't see doing two editions of the book, unless LibO in fact does have macro functionalities that OOo doesn't have. But that, of course, is up to Andrew, the author. Have you seen his website and his book? They are good resources for people who want serious info on macros. (Shameless plug for Andrew) http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php http://www.pitonyak.org/book/ --Jean On Thu, 2011-06-30 at 06:22 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Andrew, ODFauthors might be able to help with advice. I think the eventual aim here is to reduce the amount of branding in documentation so that most of the books can be quickly re-branded and thus be used for both OOo and LO. Of course LibreOffice has more functionality so it's likely to be easier to write the 1st version for LO. Then just delete some sections, swap covers and maybe screen-shots to re-release for OOo. Judging from recent questions in the Users List a macro's guide would be very much appreciated soon. Apache are likely to have OpenOffice as an Incubator Project for quite a long time while preparing it to be a proper Apache project. Regards from Tom :) From: Andrew Douglas Pitonyak and...@pitonyak.org To: documentation@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Thu, 30 June, 2011 5:40:14 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: Proposal for major revision of Getting Started Guide On 06/30/2011 12:18 AM, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: On Thu, 2011-06-30 at 07:05 +0300, David Nelson wrote: I would suggest that macros should be covered in a totally independent volume, not simply as a chapter in the Writer guide. Well, Andrew Pitonyak has written OOo Macros Explained and is, I believe, working on an update to that book, probably with a more generic title. Disclosure: I was one of the technical editors for that book. As time permits I am working through an updated revision. With this entire OOo / LO thing, I think that I need to ask the artist to modify the cover art will wait until thing settle out to see what happens with the OOo name, Apache, and LO. Riding the fence on what to do with this thing when I am done and how much extra stuff to add. -- Andrew Pitonyak My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt Info: http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: Proposal for major revision of Getting Started Guide
On Thu, 2011-06-30 at 04:42 -0400, Marc Paré wrote: Le 2011-06-30 03:29, Alexander Thurgood a écrit : Le 30/06/11 09:13, Jean Hollis Weber a écrit : Hi Jean, Have you seen his website and his book? They are good resources for people who want serious info on macros. (Shameless plug for Andrew) http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php http://www.pitonyak.org/book/ Just as a side remark, and hijacking this thread somewhat, it has always amazed me how fragmented the market for books on OOo, and now LibO, has been. From just the references I know of : English language books : editors I have seen range from Lulu (individual authoring), Sam's, the for Dummies series, probably a few others of which I've not heard. French language : a plethora of small publishing houses by different authors, mostly OOo/LibO module-centric, e.g. Eyrolles is perhaps the most well-known publisher. They also produce the excellent book on Macro programming by Laurent Godard and Bernard Marcelly (in French only alas). German language : books by Thomas Krumbein, covering each module of the suite. There are others I have seen on my travels to Germany. In my experience, it is fairly rare to see one editor publish in multiple languages, the exception possibly being the for Dummies book. I am at a loss to understand why this might be, after all, there are a fair number of talented technical translators out there, but I suppose that translation costs inevitably eat into editors' margins. Alex Hi Alex Being new to the project (I have only been involved with LibreOffice and was not at OOo), from what I see, and, I'm sure that I am stating the obvious, it just looks like it is mostly for the lack of help. There are a few of the front line contributors outside of the dev team, and not enough of the (what I would call) second line contributors whose main task is to translate documentation into various languages. There are just too few people contributing. Plus, the front line contributors also take care of too many peripheral tasks that distract from their main contribution areas. I thought Alex was talking about commercial publishers (though he used the term editors), who have their own criteria for deciding what might sell enough to cover their costs and make a profit. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Fw: [libreoffice-users] Impress, Master Slides and Custom Animations
If I understand the question correctly, what he wants to do is possible in LO. However, if he is saving in a PowerPoint format instead of ODP, that could be the problem. Some things don't save to PPT properly; I don't remember if these effects are among them. I don't think what he wants is done using Master pages, but in the show itself. (But I don't use Impress much, so I could be wrong.) Animations and transitions are covered in Chapter 9, Slide Shows, in the Impress Guide. Impress Guide is in draft form in Alfresco; AFAIK, that chapter has not yet been updated for LibreOffice, so he could get the OOo version of the same chapter here: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/OOo3_User_Guides/OOo3.3_User_Guide_Chapters --Jean On Thu, 2011-06-30 at 12:58 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Another person that has not subscribed to the Documentation Mailing List, yet. Regards from Tom :) - Forwarded Message From: tpe s91...@yahoo.gr To: us...@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Thu, 30 June, 2011 7:56:58 Subject: [libreoffice-users] Impress, Master Slides and Custom Animations Hi, I have an extremely urgent support request! I need to create a presentation by Friday. I have selected the template, the elements etc. But, I have to add transition between each text Outlines and each page. It's very easy to add page transition effects. But, so far I have not managed to add automatic custom effect in text transitions (with click). For example, let's say that I have in page the following format: Text 1 Text 2 Text 3 I want to present the elements as Text 1, then I click the mouse, Text 2 click the mount Text 3 etc. In MS PowerPoint this is done via Master pages. I tried the same on LO 3.3: Edit the Slide Master, modified the fonts etc. Then, I tried to add a custom animation in each element But with no success. First of all, it seems that any effect is named: Outline Text 1: Click to... Second: Even If I accept the fact than there seems to be no way to add an effect for Outline 2 etc, I save and show the presentation. But, instead of a page transition then a blank page that requires a click from me to present the 1st element, I see ALL elements. So, is it possible to do that in LO? -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Assignee for HELP related bugs
On Wed, 2011-06-29 at 21:18 +0300, David Nelson wrote: Hi Rainer, On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 8:49 PM, Rainer Bielefeld libreoff...@bielefeldundbuss.de wrote: I arranged with Andreas Timar that I can assign LOCALHLEP bugs with more technical problems, (missing pictures, wrong links, ...) to him. Is David Nelson the appropriate assignee for contents problems like Bug 38781 - LOCALHELP for Navigation Toolbar missing https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=38781 or what proceeding do you suggest? Sure, you can feel free to assign them to me, and then I will either handle them myself or will come and post on the documentation list for help from other team members. I previously had 4 minor ones awaiting attention, assigned to me by Kohei IIRC, and will take a look at them ASAP in the near future. They are carefully bookmarked in my mail. If you wanted a *second* assignee, you could *maybe* include Jean Weber, although I'm speaking off the top of my head here and am not sure whether she is ready/able to take on the implied commitment. Jean, anyone else, any comments or additions on this subject? Not me, mate! No time to take on anything else. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Proposal for major revision of Getting Started Guide
On Thu, 2011-06-30 at 11:04 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: Now that we are getting close to having a full set of rebranded user guides for LibreOffice (based on the OOo guides), I would like to put forward for discussion some major changes to the Getting Started guide. (I have made the same proposal to the OOo group, but the two guides do not need to remain in parallel if the two groups choose different paths to improve them.) The Getting Started guide was originally intended to be no longer than 200 pages, but it is now closer to 400 pages. I would like to cut out some chapters and make them into standalone guides, drop some material that is covered in other books and IMO is no longer needed in this one, slightly reorganise what's left, and add some pointers to the other books and documents. Details below. The main goal is to improve the book's usefulness for new users; decreasing the page count is a secondary goal. 1) Remove Chapter 8 (Getting Started with Base) and make it a standalone document. It is 52 pages long (longer than the Math Guide) and I think would be more useful to beginning Base users if it's standalone. Also, I think the vast majority of new OOo users will NOT be using Base. 2) Remove Chapter 9 (Getting Started with Math) because it duplicates the first part of the Math Guide and is therefore not needed here. 3) Remove most of Chapter 12 (Creating Web Pages) because the info is given in the guides for Writer, Impress, etc and is really little more than an export function; it could be mentioned briefly in the chapter on Printing, Exporting etc. Info on hyperlinks needs to be put somewhere else; I don't have a specific suggestion on this, but it didn't really fit in this chapter anyway, since it's relevant to more than web page creation. 4) Combine Chapter 2 (Setting up OOo) and Chapter 14 (Customizing) and leave the result at the end of the book. This is similar to the way the topics are handled in the other books. 5) Drop Appendix A (Keyboard Shortcuts) and put a brief mention in Chapter 1 with a pointer to the Help. That's the major changes. I have a few other changes to suggest in various chapters. In total the reorganisation should cut the page count down below 300 pages and make the book more useful for the majority of new users. Comments? --Jean Forgot one item: 6) Remove Chapter 13 (Macros) and make it a stand-alone document. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: Proposal for major revision of Getting Started Guide
On Thu, 2011-06-30 at 07:05 +0300, David Nelson wrote: Hi Jean, The references to OpenOffice.org should obviously be LibreOffice.org, right? Yup. The perils of copy and paste. :-) I would suggest that macros should be covered in a totally independent volume, not simply as a chapter in the Writer guide. Well, Andrew Pitonyak has written OOo Macros Explained and is, I believe, working on an update to that book, probably with a more generic title. Disclosure: I was one of the technical editors for that book. I also feel that Base should stay covered in the Getting Started guide, even though it is certainly much less used than the other apps. It *is* part of the suite, it does actually have enormous potential, and should certainly be brought to the attention of new users. Not necessarily at the level of detail of the current chapter, which is excellent but far more tutorial than the rest of the book. On the other hand, it might be interesting to have an appendix on integrating e-mail into LibreOffice, using one of the various great OS e-mail clients on the market. Hmmm, yes, that is something many people want to do, isn't it? I never think of that, since I would never use a word processor to write email, though I know others do. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE: [libreoffice-documentation] Where have all the bloggers gone?
Dennis, thanks for the comments. Much appreciated! I'm not sure how much if any control we have over the RSS feed at Wordpress.com; someone with the time to do it needs to look into that. I agree with almost all you've said. We had some discussion about what topics to include, how often to post, etc (most of which you've summarised very well; good to have that reinforcement), but as with most projects, not enough people to do the work. We hadn't thought about the relationships angle, providing links to author profiles etc. Not sure whether most of us would feel comfortable about that, as it could be interpreted as self-promotion rather than promoting the Docs team and LibreOffice itself. Actually the blog started out for announcements, then we thought to do tips and other explanations. Anyway, thanks again for the feedback. I just hope we can build on it. --Jean On Mon, 2011-06-27 at 23:29 -0700, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: Is this it? http://libodocs.wordpress.com/ It is in a little-known place, I think. - Dennis OK, brain dump. Worth less than what you paid for it. Prego, (just watched Stealing Beauty and missing Tuscany). Alas, the RSS feed does not do full posts. Can you change that? There are folks like myself who won't subscribe to teaser-RSS feeds: It makes us work too hard. Other folks don't want full posts. You might need to offer different buttons for people to choose their preferred feed. (I don't know how easy it is to get WordPress to do those things.) In the two months, there have been 9 posts and two comments. You've got more categories than posts so far! Although I am a very negligent blog poster, I think that not posting more frequently is a problem if you want more attention. I don't know who the posters are, I see the generic Team poster and 3 named contributors, all with one apiece except for Jean. There are no links to author profiles from the post timestamps. That makes the blog too one-way. But maybe you want to figure out what people would be looking for that you have to offer, beside announcements. I'm guessing. And what relationship are you out to establish. Blogs are conversational. Not fragments of user manuals. The voice is different. I have seen books written on a blog, but this isn't that. For example, explain the way that the styles dialogs work and what the categories are, in small short articles in a series. And screen shots, lots of screen shots. Or just point out where the Page Layout option is and what is there, what can be controlled. I have a question already - can I have a different layout for each sheet of a spreadsheet document, and can each sheet have different headers and footers. The Page Preview is scary, having me think that I am stuck with the one, so I don't want to try making headers over different pages and find out that is not what I got. There is no document preview print preview that I can find, only single page preview. How do I preview the document? Stuff like that. And more human presence. What do you struggle with using it yourself and figuring out how to document it. What is your most memorable duhh... moment. I suspect writers may be reluctant bloggers, having to do with how precious the words are regarded, perhaps. Yet some of the greatest blogs I read are by authors and screen writers. But they talk about their experience, they don't put their writing on the blog unless there is some story they have to tell about something in their work or struggling or dealing with the publishing process, movie studios, publishers and having to do book tours, etc. What's your drama around documenting LibreOffice? Also, because this is where your audience is, things that folks stumble on when it isn't like Word or Excel or PowerPoint, and how to learn around in Libre Office instead. Basta! Finito. orcmid -Original Message- From: Jean Hollis Weber [mailto:jeanwe...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 19:50 To: LibreOffice Documentation Subject: [libreoffice-documentation] Where have all the bloggers gone? So, we started a blog with enthusiasm, and a few people contributed fairly early on, and then... nothing except my publication announcements and two other posts from me. So it goes... --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Where have all the bloggers gone?
On Tue, 2011-06-28 at 09:46 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: [...] If I had the time, I could post tons of stuff on the blog... under several different names. chuckle / --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Where have all the bloggers gone?
On Tue, 2011-06-28 at 11:42 +0300, David Nelson wrote: Hi, Well, I didn't say anything at the time, but I must admit that I did not think it was yet the right time to start a blog. Too much fundamental organization of existing documentation content and development of workflow to be done. If I'd had my druthers, I'd have waited a few months yet. I agree, but several people seemed keen, and said they would feel more comfortable with short blog posts than getting involved in bigger projects or chunks of bigger projects, so it seemed like a good idea to try to capture some of that interest and enthusiasm. Ah, well, no harm done if the enthusiasm didn't continue. But, Jean, coming back to the subject of the blog, wordpress.com was a reasonable place to start it and it can sit there until we really are ready to start to use it. Yes. And I'll probably post something now and then to keep it from stagnating too much... mainly because I can't stop myself. ;-) --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-documentation] Book sales, 2010-2011
Thought you might like to know that the LibreOffice Documentation Team has made approximately USD95.00 from book sales this year. Details to be published eventually when I get the end-of-year bookkeeping done for Friends of OpenDocument, Inc., the publisher. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Book sales, 2010-2011
On Tue, 2011-06-28 at 23:06 +0200, David Paenson wrote: 95 USD? I make 1500 USD every year selling my 50 page A4 coloured OpenOffice.org documentation to the students of our department every year. Mind you, the money, 2 Euros per copy, doesn't even cover the costs of printing, but still. That 95 USD is the profit after printing costs. It's what Lulu passes on to us. We've sold 13 books. I suspect this number will increase as more people discover them. Sales of the OOo books started out slow but over the past few years consistently bring in over 100 USD each month. Of course, we're not in it for the money, or even the book sales. It's a service for those who want printed copies. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to documentation+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
