Re: [Drakelist] Does Anyone Remember the 1970's AES Ad with Ray Grenier?

2011-08-05 Thread Tom Delano
Scott,

I recall that early 1970's photo very clearly. I also have my AES catalog
from 1970 which shows Ray Grenier, K9KHW, standing next to a wall of Swan
boxes which was also very impressive to me at the time. I actually met Ray
at the 1998 Dayton Hamvention. We were both waiting in the line to get into
the restaurant at the Dayton Marriott. He was no longer sporting the his
famous crewcut-style haircut, but to anybody who had studied Ray's
advertising photos from 30 years before, he was easy to spot.

73,

Tom, W1CC

On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 10:40 PM, whitebear1...@comcast.net wrote:

 I'm wondering if anyone remembers seeing the early 1970's Amateur
 Electronic Supply advertisement that showed their Sales Manager at the time,
 Ray Grenier, sitting in front of a full Drake 4C line station.  It was a
 full station including the R-4C, T-4XC, MS-4/AC-4, L-4B, W-4, both six and 2
 meter transverters, CC-1 receive converter box.  It was a stunning station
 and I really wanted one but the situation wasn't good.

 I was in the Navy at the time and recall seeing those ad's while pouring
 over either QST or their catalog during some of those long midnight watches
 in the Radio room while cruising the oceans.

 so here I am some 40 years later still drooling over the C line.. hi hi

 73, Scott WA9WFA


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Re: [Drakelist] Does Anyone Remember the 1970's AES Ad with Ray Grenier?

2011-08-05 Thread Terry Maurice

The man and the equipment.

http://www.marcradio.org/rm-1971-03/vanguard-labs.html

Terry
VE3XTM

On 05/08/2011 05:51, Tom Delano wrote:

Ray Grenier


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Re: [Drakelist] Does Anyone Remember the 1970's AES Ad with Ray Grenier?

2011-08-05 Thread Robert Ladden
That picture was taken much later than the original ad. He does not have that 
70's look. :-)

73,
Bob WW3QB





The man and the equipment.

http://www.marcradio.org/rm-1971-03/vanguard-labs.html

Terry
VE3XTM

On 05/08/2011 05:51, Tom Delano wrote:
 Ray Grenier

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Re: [Drakelist] Weird Modification on T-4XC PTO

2011-08-05 Thread Garey Barrell

Scott -

Never seen it.  Not aware of any mod of that configuration.  Two coils and three capacitors sounds 
like a low pass filter, not sure why that would help anything.  If it was executed like that, it's 
not likely to be of any value!!   My advice would be to remove it.


73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA

Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs
www.k4oah.com


whitebear1...@comcast.net wrote:
I'm considering purchasing a local C line station.  The transmitter is a high serial number in 
very good condition.  Under the hood there is an odd and poorly executed modification.


Here is a photo showing the transmitter with the mod box.  Maybe you can take a look at it and 
comment.


http://s1140.photobucket.com/albums/n571/651daisy/Drake%20C%20Line/

The 82 yr old owner vaguely remembers the mod.  He said the mod has a Berghardts sticker on it.  
He told me the box has two air wound coils and 3 capacitors in it.  He thinks it's got something 
to do with the PTO but doesn't remember.  He mused that it might be to reduce drift.  The mod is 
very poorly executed as the box is attached to the PTO with black electrical tape, and some red 
house wiring.  The OT is the original owner and last used it in 1992.  The T-4XC serial number is 
in the high 26K range.


Anyone recognize such an oddball modification?

73, Scott WA9WFA


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Re: [Drakelist] Weird Modification on T-4XC PTO

2011-08-05 Thread Garey Barrell
Could be, but all that is required is a small capacitor (trimmer), diode, and RF choke.  No 
'air-wound coils' needed.


73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA

Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs
www.k4oah.com


Ron wrote:


Scott,  I suspect it is a version of the RTTY keying modification that Drake published a paper on 
many years ago.It attached to the VFO and the keying was accomplished by keying a negative 
voltage from the RTTY unit, probably through that red wire.The modification had a few 
capacitors and coils and used diode keying to shift the VFO frequency.


Ron / WB4HFN

*From:*drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net [mailto:drakelist-boun...@zerobeat.net] *On Behalf Of 
*whitebear1...@comcast.net

*Sent:* Thursday, August 04, 2011 11:13 PM
*To:* drakelist@zerobeat.net
*Subject:* [Drakelist] Weird Modification on T-4XC PTO

I'm considering purchasing a local C line station.  The transmitter is a high serial number in 
very good condition.  Under the hood there is an odd and poorly executed modification.


Here is a photo showing the transmitter with the mod box.  Maybe you can take a look at it and 
comment.


http://s1140.photobucket.com/albums/n571/651daisy/Drake%20C%20Line/

The 82 yr old owner vaguely remembers the mod.  He said the mod has a Berghardts sticker on it.  
He told me the box has two air wound coils and 3 capacitors in it.  He thinks it's got something 
to do with the PTO but doesn't remember.  He mused that it might be to reduce drift.  The mod is 
very poorly executed as the box is attached to the PTO with black electrical tape, and some red 
house wiring.  The OT is the original owner and last used it in 1992.  The T-4XC serial number is 
in the high 26K range.


Anyone recognize such an oddball modification?

73, Scott WA9WFA



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Re: [Drakelist] How to take main freq dials out of B line

2011-08-05 Thread Garey Barrell

Bob -

In my experience, it's not a matter of 'A' or 'B' line, just variations within a product line.  Some 
do, some don't.  Some lettering comes off with water, some doesn't come off with Go-Jo.


The 7 Line is an entirely different material and doesn't seem to be affected.

73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA

Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs
www.k4oah.com


Bob Loving wrote:



So, the question comes to mind, is there a difference in the material making up the dial on the 
B-line versus all of the other Drake lines? Has this discoloration been noted on other 4-lines 
by others? How about the 7-line? I have two TR-7s and they have no discoloration.


Bob K9JU




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Re: [Drakelist] Does Anyone Remember the 1970's AES Ad with Ray Grenier?

2011-08-05 Thread ron

On 08/05/2011 10:17 AM, Robert Ladden wrote:

That picture was taken much later than the original ad. He does not have
that 70's look. :-)






you may be right on the look (I say 60's) but the gear was 70's 
vintage 


now,

I may be right but I could be wrong (smile)


72
Ron, wb1hga

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Re: [Drakelist] Does Anyone Remember the 1970's AES Ad with Ray Grenier?

2011-08-05 Thread Eddy Swynar
Hi Guys,

I bought my FIRST QRO rig from AES back n 1975 when I upgraded to SSB that 
year---it was a used Heathkit SB-400, which I purchased for the then-princely 
sum of $250.00, I believe...

Ray, it seemed to me at the time, bore the look of a Jethro Bodine in 
glasses---whom I liked very much, too, so no offence intended at all...!

~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ



**


On 2011-08-05, at 9:59 AM, Terry Maurice wrote:

 The man and the equipment.
 
 http://www.marcradio.org/rm-1971-03/vanguard-labs.html
 
 Terry
 VE3XTM
 
 On 05/08/2011 05:51, Tom Delano wrote:
 Ray Grenier
 
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Re: [Drakelist] Does Anyone Remember the 1970's AES Ad with Ray Grenier?

2011-08-05 Thread K9sqg
I did see Ray Grenier at the 2011 Hamvention as we passed each other in an 
aisle but before I could turn around and get caught up he was gone.  He did 
look happy, then again, it WAS Hamvention after all...




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[Drakelist] thoughts

2011-08-05 Thread ron

Gang,

I been enjoying the Drake TR4C for a spell, then let it rest awhile 
while using my current solid state radios.


I decided to return to Drakes and whoa!

I forget how to tune these babies. I had to re-learn
(has something to do with my grey hair I suppose).

I was wondering if you guys get nervous too during the tuning process
so as not to ruin the finals.
It just scares me sometimes 

72
Ron, wb1hga

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Re: [Drakelist] thoughts

2011-08-05 Thread kc9cdt

You should be able to tune that baby very quickly, maybe 5 secs.
practice at LOW GAIN levels until you have it memoized. The most 
important two things IMHO are:

1) Immediately dip the plate and keep it dipped
2) Don't go PAST the load setting that gives MAX smoke out.
73,
Lee



-Original Message-
From: ron ronc...@verizon.net
To: drakelist drakelist@zerobeat.net
Sent: Fri, Aug 5, 2011 11:21 am
Subject: [Drakelist] thoughts


Gang,

I been enjoying the Drake TR4C for a spell, then let it rest awhile
while using my current solid state radios.

I decided to return to Drakes and whoa!

I forget how to tune these babies. I had to re-learn
(has something to do with my grey hair I suppose).

I was wondering if you guys get nervous too during the tuning process
so as not to ruin the finals.
It just scares me sometimes 

72
Ron, wb1hga

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Re: [Drakelist] thoughts

2011-08-05 Thread Jerry Semones
I have been using a homebrew tuning  'pecker' for years without ruining the 
finals in my Drake's or my SB200 amp.
They allow tuning the finals without stressing them.  The only requirement 
is that you use a peak reading wattmeter.

Here is a link if you are interested.

http://www.3898pecker.com/

73' Jerry K4FJK

-Original Message- 
From: ron

Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 11:20 AM
To: drakelist@zerobeat.net
Subject: [Drakelist] thoughts

Gang,

I been enjoying the Drake TR4C for a spell, then let it rest awhile
while using my current solid state radios.

I decided to return to Drakes and whoa!

I forget how to tune these babies. I had to re-learn
(has something to do with my grey hair I suppose).

I was wondering if you guys get nervous too during the tuning process
so as not to ruin the finals.
It just scares me sometimes 

72
Ron, wb1hga

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Re: [Drakelist] thoughts

2011-08-05 Thread Robert Fish

Hi Ron,
I remember reading a tip once on one of these lists about tuning your 
transmitter by putting it in spot mode and finding the signal with your 
receiver and peaking the pre-selector and the plate using the receiver's 
s-meter.
Well, it worked ok for me on the pre-selector, but I could never get a 
peak with the plate control (the most important one for your finals).
But, through eperimentation I stumbled across a way that works great for 
me. I put the transmitter in tune with the gain turned all the way down. 
Then find the signal with the receiver. The signal should still be very 
strong.
Then I  just peak everything for the highest s-meter reading. If the 
s-meter is too high, tune the receiver slightly off frequency to get a 
lower s-meter reading so you can easily see the peaks. once you have 
peaked everything, it should be very close to resonance and you can then 
turn the gain up and touch up the tuning again. This way your finals 
aren't being driven very hard or at all when your searching around for 
the correct plate adjustment. It works for me because I was also nervous 
and way too slow using the conventional method of tuning up.


Have Fun,

Bob  K6GGO

I have been using a homebrew tuning  'pecker' for years without 
ruining the finals in my Drake's or my SB200 amp.
They allow tuning the finals without stressing them.  The only 
requirement is that you use a peak reading wattmeter.

Here is a link if you are interested.

http://www.3898pecker.com/

73' Jerry K4FJK

-Original Message- From: ron
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 11:20 AM
To: drakelist@zerobeat.net
Subject: [Drakelist] thoughts

Gang,

I been enjoying the Drake TR4C for a spell, then let it rest awhile
while using my current solid state radios.

I decided to return to Drakes and whoa!

I forget how to tune these babies. I had to re-learn
(has something to do with my grey hair I suppose).

I was wondering if you guys get nervous too during the tuning process
so as not to ruin the finals.
It just scares me sometimes 

72
Ron, wb1hga

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Re: [Drakelist] thoughts

2011-08-05 Thread K9sqg
Ron,


What can help is to make yourself a cheat sheet so you can quickly determine 
the steps to go through during tune up.  Reading an extended, vague, narrative 
while key down and tuning up is not good practice, hi hi.  Too, the AC-4 should 
be in good operating condition with respect to the bias supply so if it hasn't 
been rebuilt yet, it needs to be.  Too, using a tuning pulser or a CW keyer 
sending dots can be useful during tune up.  Also, as part of tune up, having a 
PEP or other wattmeter to look for power out during tune up can be useful; if 
you're doing things by the book and output isn't quite right, then you know not 
to proceed until a problem is found.  What can really help is to tune up into a 
dummy load first, then go to the real world.


Enjoy those Drakes and don't forget the Drake nets.


73,


Evan, K9SQG





-Original Message-
From: ron ronc...@verizon.net
To: drakelist drakelist@zerobeat.net
Sent: Fri, Aug 5, 2011 7:21 am
Subject: [Drakelist] thoughts


Gang,

I been enjoying the Drake TR4C for a spell, then let it rest awhile 
while using my current solid state radios.

I decided to return to Drakes and whoa!

I forget how to tune these babies. I had to re-learn
(has something to do with my grey hair I suppose).

I was wondering if you guys get nervous too during the tuning process
so as not to ruin the finals.
It just scares me sometimes 

72
Ron, wb1hga

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Re: [Drakelist] Drake PTO Fixed - R4B Update

2011-08-05 Thread Lee Zalaznik


This is the continuing story of my R4B that drifts and wiggles in 
frequency and stops oscillating.  My last installment I found a solder 
joint that was not soldered to the ground plane.


After that the PTO would still wiggle and stop oscillating and when I 
pressed on the end of the PTO cover the PTO would start oscillating again.


Taking the cover off and pressing the PTO circuit board I could make PTO 
stop and start oscillating.  Moving the circuit board and measuring the 
ground at the 6.8K ohm resister, I found that the ground was at 10.0 
volts when the PTO stopped oscillating.


I followed the ground to the front of the PTO and there is a small 
jumper wire between the main PTO circuit board and the vertical PTO 
circuit board.  I found that measuring the ground connection on the 
vertical PTO circuit board would not change when I pressed on the PTO 
circuit board but when I measured the ground on the main PTO board it 
would.  On closer inspection the ground solder connection on the main 
circuit looked like that the solder had not made complete contact with 
the wire or had come lose.


I re-soldered and inspected the joint again and the solder had rapped 
round the short ground jumper.


I gently pressed on the circuit and the PTO continued to oscillate.   I 
have put the receiver back together.  The PTO is stable and continues to 
oscillate.


Lee KI6OY

P.S.  I hope that this helps someone else.


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Re: [Drakelist] thoughts

2011-08-05 Thread kc9cdt

Bob,
Yep...works great and I do that the first time to a new band...then 
from then on, just re-dip the plate, and touch up the load a little.

73,
Lee, KC9CDT



-Original Message-
From: Robert Fish rwf...@comcast.net
To: Jerry Semones grand...@insightbb.com
Cc: drakelist drakelist@zerobeat.net
Sent: Fri, Aug 5, 2011 11:55 am
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] thoughts


Hi Ron,
I remember reading a tip once on one of these lists about tuning your
transmitter by putting it in spot mode and finding the signal with your
receiver and peaking the pre-selector and the plate using the 
receiver's

s-meter.
Well, it worked ok for me on the pre-selector, but I could never get a
peak with the plate control (the most important one for your finals).
But, through eperimentation I stumbled across a way that works great 
for
me. I put the transmitter in tune with the gain turned all the way 
down.

Then find the signal with the receiver. The signal should still be very
strong.
Then I  just peak everything for the highest s-meter reading. If the
s-meter is too high, tune the receiver slightly off frequency to get a
lower s-meter reading so you can easily see the peaks. once you have
peaked everything, it should be very close to resonance and you can 
then

turn the gain up and touch up the tuning again. This way your finals
aren't being driven very hard or at all when your searching around for
the correct plate adjustment. It works for me because I was also 
nervous

and way too slow using the conventional method of tuning up.

Have Fun,

Bob  K6GGO


I have been using a homebrew tuning  'pecker' for years without
ruining the finals in my Drake's or my SB200 amp.
They allow tuning the finals without stressing them.  The only
requirement is that you use a peak reading wattmeter.
Here is a link if you are interested.

http://www.3898pecker.com/

73' Jerry K4FJK

-Original Message- From: ron
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 11:20 AM
To: drakelist@zerobeat.net
Subject: [Drakelist] thoughts

Gang,

I been enjoying the Drake TR4C for a spell, then let it rest awhile
while using my current solid state radios.

I decided to return to Drakes and whoa!

I forget how to tune these babies. I had to re-learn
(has something to do with my grey hair I suppose).

I was wondering if you guys get nervous too during the tuning process
so as not to ruin the finals.
It just scares me sometimes 

72
Ron, wb1hga

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[Drakelist] Drake Rigs and parts - estate.

2011-08-05 Thread Steve Wedge
I scored some B-Line Drake stuff from an estate sale.  There's still a couple 
of wattmeters and a MN-2000 available.

Let me know if you're interested and I'll forward you the email.

Steve Wedge, W1ES/4

To be is to do - Socrates
To do is to be - Plato
Do be do be do. - Sinatra

All my computers have my signature with various pearls of wisdom appended 
thereto.
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Re: [Drakelist] Does Anyone Remember the 1970's AES Ad with Ray Grenier?

2011-08-05 Thread Mark Nace
He's on QRZ



From: whitebear1...@comcast.net whitebear1...@comcast.net
To: Terry Maurice ve3...@execulink.com
Cc: Drakelist drakelist@zerobeat.net
Sent: Fri, August 5, 2011 8:22:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Does Anyone Remember the 1970's AES Ad with Ray 
Grenier?


Wow what a find!  That is definitely Ray Grenier!  I haven't seen that picture 
in 40 years wow!  I dunno if it's late 60's or not.  i'm thinking 60's.  
Thanks 
for digging up the photo Terry.  I seem to recall the Drake photo I'm thinking 
of might have been a slightly older Ray, minus the black frame glasses, and a 
clearly 4C station in view.73, Scott WA9WFA

 


From: Terry Maurice ve3...@execulink.com
Cc: Drakelist drakelist@zerobeat.net
Sent: Friday, August 5, 2011 8:59:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Does Anyone Remember the 1970's AES Ad with 
RayGrenier?

The man and the equipment.

http://www.marcradio.org/rm-1971-03/vanguard-labs.html

Terry
VE3XTM


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Re: [Drakelist] Does Anyone Remember the 1970's AES Ad with Ray Grenier?

2011-08-05 Thread whitebear1122
I'll have to check out that January 1977 QST and see if that's the photo I'm 
thinking of. Thanks Bob! 73, Scott WA9WFA 

- Original Message -
From: Robert Ladden rmlad...@yahoo.com 
To: Drakelist drakelist@zerobeat.net 
Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2011 11:39:59 PM 
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Does Anyone Remember the 1970's AES Ad with Ray 
Grenier? 



Oops. That should be January 1977 QST. 





Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Does Anyone Remember the 1970's AES Ad with Ray 
Grenier? 




I'm looking at it now in the January 1997 QST page 135. Nice. I still use my 
C-line as my main station. Still good enough to work the ST0R DXpedition this 
week. 


73, 
Bob WW3QB 







I'm wondering if anyone remembers seeing the early 1970's Amateur Electronic 
Supply advertisement that showed their Sales Manager at the time, Ray Grenier, 
sitting in front of a full Drake 4C line station. It was a full station 
including the R-4C, T-4XC, MS-4/AC-4, L-4B, W-4, both six and 2 meter 
transverters, CC-1 receive converter box. It was a stunning station and I 
really wanted one but the situation wasn't good. 

I was in the Navy at the time and recall seeing those ad's while pouring over 
either QST or their catalog during some of those long midnight watches in the 
Radio room while cruising the oceans. 

so here I am some 40 years later still drooling over the C line.. hi hi 

73, Scott WA9WFA 


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Re: [Drakelist] Weird Modification on T-4XC PTO

2011-08-05 Thread whitebear1122
Thanks Ron and guys for the suggestions on the weird modification. Ron's 
thought about a RTTY VFO mod makes perfect sense. I didn't get a chance to ask 
the seller if he ran RTTY as the deal fell though when the sale condition 
became 'as is' and I couldn't test the R-4C, T-4XC, or the L-4B to find out if 
it worked. 
73, Scott WA9WFA 
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Re: [Drakelist] Drake PTO Fixed - R4B Update

2011-08-05 Thread Jim Shorney
On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 10:04:56 -0700, Lee Zalaznik wrote:

On closer inspection the ground solder connection on the main 
circuit looked like that the solder had not made complete contact with 
the wire or had come lose.

I repaired a TR-7 a couple of years ago that had intermittent PTO operation. I
eventually traced the fault to a solder connection on the PTO circuit board
that looked just fine under casual inspection, but probing with an orage wood
stick (handy item for a number of reasons) produced output. Under closer
examination, the connecting wire poking out of the solder side looked like it
was bent at an odd angle. The solder looked like it had flowed well around the
connection, but the end of the wire was bent either from an impact during
assembly, or possibly it was pulled when it was trimmed, fracturing the solder
joint. It worked for who knows how many years that way, before it started to
cause trouble.

I see fractured connections at work quite frequently, caused by assemblers who
get too happy with their cutters. Everyone was told at one time that we should
trim the leads to length before soldering, but no one seems to do that.

73

-Jim

--
Ham Radio NU0C
Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A.
TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, 
HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time!

Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, and he 
will learn for a lifetime.

HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/
http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney
http://www.nebraskaghosts.org



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Re: [Drakelist] thoughts

2011-08-05 Thread Jim Shorney
On Fri, 5 Aug 2011 11:29:25 -0400, Jerry Semones wrote:

I have been using a homebrew tuning  'pecker' for years without ruining the 
finals in my Drake's or my SB200 amp.
They allow tuning the finals without stressing them.  The only requirement 
is that you use a peak reading wattmeter.


I had an old 1-gig MP3 player that I wasn't using for anything, so I built a
5-minute pulsed 1 KHz audio file in Audacity and loaded it on the player. I
rigged up a small earpiece speaker out of a scrap communications headset to it,
with a cuff to slip over the mic (I could have hardwired it ti the mic circuit,
but I was in a hurry to see if it actually worked). It works great, and I never
saw the need for a peak reading wattmeter. The ballistics of the meter
movements average out nicely, and at 50% duty cycle, all the readings come out
about half of what one would expect peak to be.

73

-Jim


--
Ham Radio NU0C
Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A.
TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, 
HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time!

Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, and he 
will learn for a lifetime.

HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/
http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney
http://www.nebraskaghosts.org



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Re: [Drakelist] TR7-A No power out in cw or phone

2011-08-05 Thread Jim Shorney

First step: unplug each circuit board, clean and DeOxit the pins and sockets,
and reseat boards. This clears up an awful lot of 7-line problems.

73

-Jim

On Fri, 5 Aug 2011 01:05:04 -0400 (EDT), Randall Murphree wrote:

1.  All lights light up on a ham frequency except the mic gain green  light.

2.  In cw mode it clicks but there is no power out.

3. With mic plugged in no power out.

4.  Have check the fuse in the power supply which is a PS7.

Thanks,

Randall Murphree,
W4DEU



--
Ham Radio NU0C
Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A.
TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, 
HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time!

Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, and he 
will learn for a lifetime.

HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/
http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney
http://www.nebraskaghosts.org



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[Drakelist] 4 line crystals

2011-08-05 Thread Neil M Califano
Quick question: Do the R4 and the R4A take the same crystals?

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