Re: [Drakelist] Drake R-4A Dial Scale
Yes, I had an early R-4A with 5KHz markings and I currently have sn3740 an early 13 tube version that has 25KHz markings. My early T-4X has 5KHz markings so I have a mis-matched set :( 73, Gary WB6OGD - Original Message - From: Gary Poland gpola...@cinci.rr.com To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 00:04:07 - (UTC) Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Drake R-4A Dial Scale AL, The R-4 dial was marked every 5 khz, it’s possible that the early R-4A’s used the same dial. My R-4A and R-4B have the same dial. 73, Gary http://home.roadrunner.com/~w8pu R-4A T4-X R-4B T4-XB R-4C T4-XC MS-4 L-4B RCS-4 2A 2B 2C 2NT 2CQ 2AS 4-LF TR-4 TR-4C TR-4CW/RIT RV-4C MC-4 TR-7 RV-7 CW-75 MS-7 WH-7 W-4 WV-4 MN-2700 MN-4C MN-2000 UV-3 PS-3 TR-22C TR-33C AA-10 AC-10 MMK-22 TR-6 PRN1000 ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] 60 Meter Operation
Like another Gary pointed out, the IF is in the way. It will work to use a 16.1MHz crystal. You will get images and spurs though. If you are lucky (I haven't run the numbers) they are far enough from the 60m channels to let you RECEIVE them... BUT do not try to TRANSMIT, you will put out spurs that are out of the ham bands. IF, PTO, mixing products, who knows what... ;-) 73, Gary WB6OGD - Original Message - From: Charles Ring w...@roadrunner.com To: Edward Gable ega...@rochester.rr.com Cc: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 17:12:55 - (UTC) Subject: Re: [Drakelist] 60 Meter Operation I see that a 16.1 MHz crystal would cover 5.0 to 5.5 MHz if it can work at all. With the 60 meter channels ranging from 5.3305 to 5.4035 MHz, I wonder if at least receiving might be possible? 73 de W3NU On 11/25/2012 1128, Edward Gable wrote: Hello Bob: If you look at any of the 4 line manuals you will notsee an external Xtal listed for the 5 to 6 Mhz region. Me thinksthat is because of the VFO operating at 5 Mhz and thus thereis no mix that will take you to the 60 meter band. So other thana fairly major circuitry change I don't think it's feasible. Ed Gable k2mp - Original Message - From:Robert LookTo:drakelist@zerobeat.netSent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 7:36 AMSubject: [Drakelist] 60 Meter Operation Has anyone operated their 4-Line radio on 60 meters USB or CW? ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] T-4X RF Tune Vernier?
Nobody touched this one. Yes Luke, there are early and later T-4X's. Like you, I have an early one without vernier. It also has 5khz marks on the main dial. Later T-4X's get the vernier and only 25KHz marks. My R-4A is mid-production and has 25KHz marks and vernier but is the earlier 13 tube version. Years ago I had an early R-4A with no vernier but with 5KHz marks. 73, Gary WB6OGD - Original Message - From: Luke Rainville k...@comcast.net To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 15:28:45 - (UTC) Subject: [Drakelist] T-4X RF Tune Vernier? Were there two versions of the T-4X? Mine has a straight through RF Tune shaft, indeed the manual cover shows a T-4X with a bar knob like mine. However I have seen T-4X's with R-4A style red pointer vernier RF Tune controls. Is that a mod or perhaps a later production change? 73 - Luke - K6LO R-4A / T-4X ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Pertaining to Dial Scale and S-meter lighting question by Al, WA2S
My 4-Line did the same (meters are less blue). I had pretty good results with my quick-fix. I just painted the pilot light with a blue-green Sharpie. I also use the Red Sharpie on the dial adjust red dot. Makes it like brand new. 73, Gary WB6OGD - Original Message - From: conklin richard conklin.rich...@mchsi.com To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 22:46:55 - (UTC) Subject: [Drakelist] Pertaining to Dial Scale and S-meter lighting question by Al, WA2S I'm in the process of restoring a TR-4Cx. Here are my unedited 7/15/2012 notes concerning lighting differences: The illumination color is different for the panel frequency dials on the right (bluish-white) and the receive signal strength transmitter plate current meters on the left (warm-white). Turns out that the blue-green gel between the pilot lamp and the meters has faded to clear in the center. I have no idea where to get replacement gel material. (Perhaps a theater lighting supplier?) [Unit would probably appear a bit better if both gels were replaced with a matching close color gel.] I believe this has been caused by the closer proximity of the gel to the pilot lamp on the S-meter assembly. Dick Conklin, WA2WGY/9 -- ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] TR-4 mystery circuit attached to PTO
Ethan, It is certainly some sort of FSK circuit. Actually, it looks like 2 FSK circuits. Why 2? Well, if one is good, two must be better, right? Back in the day, it was common to use both normal shift (850Hz) and narrow shift (170Hz). Normally you just changed it by the control voltage but the DPO of yours didn't know that. OR, maybe he put in two so he could implement an RIT using one. The schematic looks wrong, they are in series instead of parallel (kinda sorta) and looks like it was uncompleted. Construction is uh... UGLY and HUGE, I would remove it and start over, IF you want FSK. My guesses only BTW, Drake issued actual drawings of FSK circuits. I know because the PO of mine installed it in my T-4X and included the memo (tech tip?) with the manual. You need a wire coming out somehow. Mine comes out on an unused connection on the power plug. 73, Gary WB6OGD - Original Message - From: Ethan Blanton e...@psg.com To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 04:11:57 - (UTC) Subject: [Drakelist] TR-4 mystery circuit attached to PTO Hi all, As discussed a few times in #drakelist on IRC over the past few days, I have a TR-4 (B era) with a circuit hanging off the PTO that I don't really grok. I've put up a web page with some photos and a discussion of the circuit as I understand it here: http://kb8ojh.net/misc/TR-4-PTO/ I've heard two plausible theories for what this circuit is, but both theories have holes (admitted by their authors). It's always possible that the circuit was built wrong, or that I have captured it wrong, and one of these theories is still correct. I'll leave those theories out for just now, to avoid tainting anyone's creative process. I'm curious to hear what others think it may be. Ethan ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
[Drakelist] T-4X meter
I saw a post not too long ago that said the T-4X meter changed during production from 400MA to 500MA. I finally had time to look at this, and sure enough my old early t-4X has the 400MA meter. Not that it matters, I am just curious, what is the details on this change? My manual says to tune up to 320MA and my hand written notes says this is 208Watts.. Why do the later t-4Xs need a 500MA meter? 73, TIA, Gary WB6OGD___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] pan adapter
The connection to the main Rx is a bit touchy. I used a gimmick and a small cap but that is less than ideal. Clifton Labs offers a isolator on a small board that is the real answer. Yes, you need something so the connection doesn't de-tune the Drake. The Softrock radiates alot of signal into the IF too. The Clifton Labs amp looks great, I will probably get one for my Kenwood mod. I have used a version of this FET voltage follower by JA9MAT in my Icom mod: http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/YNEzTyz6EEdqb4TuXCFlakJZdWqkbYyA_2YflzIHrIBF1FMj4uIanoWVUjTzqO2bWSnPTV83qlCBZinR22BhWAFbwS-Y/JA9MAT%20-%20PCR100%2010.7MHz%20IF%20TAP/PCR100_IF_Mod_with_SRLite.JPG The Softrock input filter is pretty broad, you might find the 40meter version is fine as-is, or else just add some turns to the coils. 73, Gary WB6OGD - Original Message - From: Curt cptc...@flash.net To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Thu, 09 Feb 2012 13:21:56 - (UTC) Subject: Re: [Drakelist] pan adapter Hi Carey: I did exactly that a few years ago with my a version. It works really well and is a excellent way to get involved with SDR, the Software, and get a panadapter along the way. You need to get the proper IF version softrock. The SDR needs to be tapped off of the 1st IF before the filtering. The SDR needs to be able to see unfiltered RF at the IF frequency. You need as good a Soundcard as you can afford. The Delta44 is one of the ones widely used. The connection to the main Rx is a bit touchy. I used a gimmick and a small cap but that is less than ideal. Clifton Labs offers a isolator on a small board that is the real answer. The Softrock for the IF will be different. The coils are different as is the crystal. Tony Parks was good about answering questions and providing info. He can probaly supply the stuff you need to convert the 40M kit since I don't think the IF kit currently being done includes the Drake IF freq. Hope this helps Curt KU8L On 2/8/2012 10:34 PM, Carey Lockhart, KC5GTT wrote: Hello Gang, i have a 13 tube r4a i would like to set up on powersdr or another sdr app. is there a website or can someone point me in the right direction to what i need to do. i do have so 40m softrock and a flex 1500. either should d the job i would think. ThanksCarey, kc5gtt ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.nethttp://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Receive/Transmit Relay? Mute Problem?
Hi Rick, It sounds like maybe your transmitter is keyed all the time. Is the meter showing the bias current or is is correctly on 0mA (receive mode). Disconnect your mike and key if it is keyed. When muted, the R-4C SHOULD put the meter to the top, and when ON will receive even when you transmit. The Transceive switch has nothing to do with muting. The mute cable at the receiver end should be grounded when not transmitting, open when transmitting. 73, Gary WB6OGD - Original Message - From: Rick Wallace rikw...@attglobal.net To: 'Drake List' drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Wed, 08 Feb 2012 03:27:49 - (UTC) Subject: [Drakelist] Receive/Transmit Relay? Mute Problem? Hi all, I have a Drake C-line rig that does not mute the receiver even though the transmitter is set to transceive. The unit has just been refurbished by one of the well known, much admired folks who do that kind or work so I'm sure it was in top notch working order when it was re-boxed and sent back to me via UPS, here on Vashon Island, WA. However, when I hooked everything up I found a big problem. 1. The receiver does not mute in any of the transceive modes. I get acoustic feedback of my voice if I transmit SSB. When I go to tune mode I get a loud tone (maybe 1,000 Khz sidetone?) in the speaker. 2. I've double checked all the interconnecting cables and had an experienced Ham double check my connections as well. I've also swapped a fresh cable into the mute cable position, as well as each of the other cables, as a process of elimination technique. 3. If I switch the receiver Function switch to external mute or noise blanker, the receiver mutes. However, even though the speaker is muted, the S-meter goes all the way over to the right to 60 decibels if in Tune mode. 4. We disconnected the receiver end of the mute cable and measured continuity to ground when switching the transmitter to Tune. The mute cable is not being connected to ground if the receiver is simply in the On position. However, the mute cable is being grounded if the receiver Function switch is in the External Mute or Noise Blanker positions. 5. During all this, we hear no clicking of the transmit/receive relay. What do you think? A faulty relay? Something upstream of the relay? Where do I start looking? Thnx,Rick WØRIK___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Receive/Transmit Relay? Mute Problem?
Rick, Garey's description is very good, except one typo The transmitter MUTE connector should read OPEN when the transmitter is in standby, and shorted when in transmit. Should be: The transmitter MUTE connector should read SHORTED when the transmitter is in standby, and OPEN when in transmit. It sounds to me that your transmitter is stuck in transmit. OR you DO have a relay/circuit problem in the transmitter. The receiver is working right. Gary WB6OGD - Original Message - From: Garey Barrell k4...@mindspring.com To: Rick Wallace rikw...@attglobal.net Cc: 'Drake List' drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Wed, 08 Feb 2012 15:31:10 - (UTC) Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Receive/Transmit Relay? Mute Problem? Rick - What you describe is NORMAL operation.. When the receiver switch is set to ON, the receiver is ON! Regardless of any other setting. Likewise, when the receiver is set to EXT MUTE, it is capable of being muted externally! Obviously if you want to use the Noise Blanker or the Calibrator, you want the receiver to be ON, so those choices also need the ON condition. This is why a shorted plug must be installed in the MUTE jack on the rear panel to use the receiver as a 'standalone' unit and continue to have access to the NB and CAL functions. Your #4 is confusing. You say you disconnected the _receiver_ end of the MUTE cable, and then describe cable resistance checks related to various _receiver_ switch positions. If you measure the receiver MUTE connector, it will be grounded in ON, and a negative voltage in EXT MUTE, NB or CAL. The transmitter MUTE connector should read OPEN when the transmitter is in standby, and shorted when in transmit. The MUTE function operates as follows: When the _transmitter_ is in RECEIVE mode, (the relay is open,) the MUTE line in the transmitter is grounded by a set of relay contacts. This ground is therefore applied to the MUTE connector of the receiver, via the MUTE cable. When the receiver MUTE jack is grounded by this connection, the receiver is in normal operation. IF the FUNCTION switch is set to ON, the receiver operates normally without regard to the MUTE jack being grounded or not. When the transmitter is in any TRANSMIT mode, the MUTE line is 'open' (NOT grounded) in the transmitter. This 'open' is carried to the receiver MUTE connector by the cable, and if the receiver FUNCTION switch is in EXT MUTE, NB or CAL, the receiver will be muted, and the AVC line will go to maximum to cut off the RF/IF stages. The S-Meter WILL to to full scale. You describe the transmitter as 'working', which is ONLY possible if the relay has pulled in. It's a small relay but should be quite audible. Sometimes it's masked by the click of the switch detent. So unless I'm misreading your question(s), it sounds like if you put the receiver in the EXT MUTE, NB or CAL positions that it IS being muted and the system is operating as expected. 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs Rick Wallace wrote: Hi all, I have a Drake C-line rig that does not mute the receiver even though the transmitter is set to transceive. The unit has just been refurbished by one of the well known, much admired folks who do that kind or work so I'm sure it was in top notch working order when it was re-boxed and sent back to me via UPS, here on Vashon Island, WA. However, when I hooked everything up I found a big problem. 1. The receiver does not mute in any of the transceive modes. I get acoustic feedback of my voice if I transmit SSB. When I go to tune mode I get a loud tone (maybe 1,000 Khz sidetone?) in the speaker. 2. I've double checked all the interconnecting cables and had an experienced Ham double check my connections as well. I've also swapped a fresh cable into the mute cable position, as well as each of the other cables, as a process of elimination technique. 3. If I switch the receiver Function switch to external mute or noise blanker, the receiver mutes. However, even though the speaker is muted, the S-meter goes all the way over to the right to 60 decibels if in Tune mode. 4. We disconnected the receiver end of the mute cable and measured continuity to ground when switching the transmitter to Tune. The mute cable is not being connected to ground if the receiver is simply in the On position. However, the mute cable is being grounded if the receiver Function switch is in the External Mute or Noise Blanker positions. 5. During all this, we hear no clicking of the transmit/receive relay. What do you think? A faulty relay? Something upstream of the relay? Where do I start looking? Thnx, Rick WØRIK ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] pan adapter
Hi Carey, I have some Softrocks too. I haven't tried to tap into my R-4A but here is how I would start... I have successfully tapped into my Icom PCR-100 and less successfully tapped my Kenwood TS-440s. Tune your Flex to 5.645Mhz (R-4a 1st IF). Take a small cap (10pf?) and hook it onto a coax from your Flex antenna connector. Use this cap to probe at the output of the R-4A 1st mixer (and the input to the roofing filter). Hopefully the signal in the Drake is strong enough that you can receive it on the Flex. If that works, you need to modify the input filter on the Softrock (maybe not) and change the crystal to something that can receive 5.645MHz (Tony did have some crystals that would do it). I have not heard anyone that did tap into a R-4 but Tony has had the kits available. Let us know how you make out. 73, Gary WB6OGD - Original Message - From: Carey Lockhart, KC5GTT kc5...@gmail.com To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Thu, 09 Feb 2012 03:34:29 - (UTC) Subject: [Drakelist] pan adapter Hello Gang, i have a 13 tube r4a i would like to set up on powersdr or another sdr app. is there a website or can someone point me in the right direction to what i need to do. i do have so 40m softrock and a flex 1500. either should d the job i would think. ThanksCarey, kc5gtt ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] AC-4 (bias mod)
All this talk of rebuilding AC-4 supplies had me thinking... I have seen a mod(?) that said to turn up(down?) the bias when running CW (and FSK?) to set the finals more to Class C operation to save power dissipation. Is this a good idea? Wouldn't it be easy to add a switch or relay and another potentiometer while you are in there rebuilding? 73, Gary WB6OGD - Original Message - From: Mark Pilant n1...@arrl.net To: drakelist drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 01:52:42 - (UTC) Subject: Re: [Drakelist] AC-4 Hi John. That I've always done, as suggested by others, is to replace the two conductor cord with a more modern grounded plug and wire. You can see the one I used in the AC-4 rebuild I describe here: http://www.n1vqw.net/ac4rebuild/ BTW, it is a standard computer cord, and I cut off the female end with about 6 inches of cord in case I ever want to use it. 73 - Mark N1VQW ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] AC-4 (bias mod)
Well yeahh Garey I am not suggesting we change the bias for SSB (or AM), just for CW (and real FSK). So, you would need a switch or relay added and USE it to change modes. Yes, bias it past cut-off, will result in no emission between code elements, but also over part of the cycle. Key clicks could be delt with... The reason they had key clicks was primarily because they were cathode keying high voltages with no shaping as I recall. no? Bias is only on the finals, we don't key those or do we? Junk? Isn't our driver pretty clean? If not, wouldn't we have the same spurs and junk with a linear final? We DO have a tuned output tank circuit for the flywheel effect... no? BUT, if we don't have enough (voltage) drive, that might be a problem, but we don't really need full power... Don't ya think? Changing bias for CW wasn't my idea, but it did sound good to me. TIA, I am trying to learn here... There probably IS some reason nobody did this originally! 73, Gary WB6OGD - Original Message - From: Garey Barrell k4...@mindspring.com To: Gary Winblad garywinb...@comcast.net Cc: drakelist drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 15:31:44 - (UTC) Subject: Re: [Drakelist] AC-4 (bias mod) Gary - In a word NO. The PA stage is operated as a LINEAR amplifier, Class AB1, meaning the output signal is a reasonable facsimile of the input signal. The BIAS voltage is carefully chosen to 'center' the operation of the amplifier in the linear portion of the tube's operating region. Increasing the BIAS voltage WILL reduce the IDLE current, (between code elements,) but will shift the PA to a non-linear region. This will result in distortion of the signal, with the potential of spurious signals, clicks, and other 'junk'. This is one reason clicks were so prevalent in the older transmitters. A true Class C amplifier requires considerably more driving power, and relies on the 'flywheel effect' of it's output network to 'smooth' out the 'pulses' of drive that exceed the bias potential. 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs Gary Winblad wrote: All this talk of rebuilding AC-4 supplies had me thinking... I have seen a mod(?) that said to turn up(down?) the bias when running CW (and FSK?) to set the finals more to Class C operation to save power dissipation. Is this a good idea? Wouldn't it be easy to add a switch or relay and another potentiometer while you are in there rebuilding? 73, Gary WB6OGD http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] AC-4 (bias mod)
Hi Garey, Thanks, good explanation. I'm not going to try it any time soon ;-) 73, Gary - Original Message - From: Garey Barrell k4...@mindspring.com To: Gary Winblad garywinb...@comcast.net Cc: drakelist drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 23:24:40 - (UTC) Subject: Re: [Drakelist] AC-4 (bias mod) Gary - Obviously the bias would remain in the Class AB1 area for SSB and AM. Applying a keyed signal to a non-linear amplifier is a bad idea. Every time the drive is started or stopped there is the opportunity for additional distortion products to be generated. Some SSB distortion is caused by biasing the amplifier too high or too low, resulting in 'compression' or limiting the waveform to less than it's peak. More distortion. Perhaps we have an amplifier expert on here who can definitively respond to your question. There are no doubt MANY reasons why all transmitters switched to linear operation for CW, in spite of the 'power/efficiency savings. If nothing else than it takes large amounts of drive POWER, more trouble, including greatly increased Grid dissipation. To me, turning an input signal on and off to a Class C amplifier is asking for trouble. A Class C amplifier is essentially a switch, ON or OFF, and relies on the Q of the tank circuits to 'smooth things out'. A lot of potential headaches for a few percent efficiency increase. There are LOTS of 'ideas' on the internet that 'sound' good :-) Let us know what you find out!! 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs Gary Winblad wrote: Well yeahh Garey I am not suggesting we change the bias for SSB (or AM), just for CW (and real FSK). So, you would need a switch or relay added and USE it to change modes. Yes, bias it past cut-off, will result in no emission between code elements, but also over part of the cycle. Key clicks could be delt with... The reason they had key clicks was primarily because they were cathode keying high voltages with no shaping as I recall. no? Bias is only on the finals, we don't key those or do we? Junk? Isn't our driver pretty clean? If not, wouldn't we have the same spurs and junk with a linear final? We DO have a tuned output tank circuit for the flywheel effect... no? BUT, if we don't have enough (voltage) drive, that might be a problem, but we don't really need full power... Don't ya think? Changing bias for CW wasn't my idea, but it did sound good to me. TIA, I am trying to learn here... There probably IS some reason nobody did this originally! 73, Gary WB6OGD - Original Message - From: Garey Barrell To: Gary Winblad Cc: drakelist Sent: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 15:31:44 - (UTC) Subject: Re: [Drakelist] AC-4 (bias mod) Gary - In a word NO. The PA stage is operated as a LINEAR amplifier, Class AB1, meaning the output signal is a reasonable facsimile of the input signal. The BIAS voltage is carefully chosen to 'center' the operation of the amplifier in the linear portion of the tube's operating region. Increasing the BIAS voltage WILL reduce the IDLE current, (between code elements,) but will shift the PA to a non-linear region. This will result in distortion of the signal, with the potential of spurious signals, clicks, and other 'junk'. This is one reason clicks were so prevalent in the older transmitters. A true Class C amplifier requires considerably more driving power, and relies on the 'flywheel effect' of it's output network to 'smooth' out the 'pulses' of drive that exceed the bias potential. 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs Gary Winblad wrote: All this talk of rebuilding AC-4 supplies had me thinking... I have seen a mod(?) that said to turn up(down?) the bias when running CW (and FSK?) to set the finals more to Class C operation to save power dissipation. Is this a good idea? Wouldn't it be easy to add a switch or relay and another potentiometer while you are in there rebuilding? 73, Gary WB6OGD http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] T4XB audio
And as another side note: The beauty of having a separate receiver is that you can listen to your own signal, you don't have to rely on reports from others. If you find a difference in sound between LSB and USB, I wouldn't hesitate to try moving C2 (carrier osc freq) while listening to your signal. 73, Gary WB6OGD - Original Message - From: K9sqg k9...@aol.com To: 1oldle...@ix.netcom.com, fas...@privat.dk, drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 16:46:27 - (UTC) Subject: Re: [Drakelist] T4XB audio As a side note, the narrower the passband of the filter(s) the more critical is the alignment of the transmitter in most rigs... ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Interesting discovery/problem about R-4A R-4B
Hi Lee, I just took a listen on my early 13 tube R-4A. I can't find any really strong signals today but my rx works like this: I DO hear scratchy clicky sound with NB turned on even on the correct sideband of moderately strong signals. I hear it even off the side of the moderately strong signal. It is worse on some signals, some sound fine. I believe this is what you are describing. But, if I turn the NB off, all scratchyness goes away on mine. I only use the NB if I have noise to kill, at this new QTH, I don't think I have ever needed it.. At my old QTH years ago (and on another early R-4A) I had to use it all the time due to florescent lights in the next room.. made the difference of getting on the air or not. 73, Gary WB6OGD - Original Message - From: kc9...@aol.com To: k4...@mindspring.com Cc: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 17:32:26 - (UTC) Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Interesting discovery/problem about R-4A R-4B Still looking for some help/input as to this issue.. Please...if you have a R-4A or B...check this out let me know how yours works...(Just read the thread details) Looks to me the later R-4B's should have fixed this...if so, it may be worth it to update a R-4A to eliminate the problem?? Or even give me a call. Thanks, 73, Lee, KC9CDT Lee Simmonds Summit DCS LLC 260-799-4077 Office 260-403-6936 Cell -Original Message- From: Garey Barrell To: kc9cdt Cc: drakelist Sent: Fri, Jan 13, 2012 9:44 am Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Interesting discovery/problem about R-4A R-4B Lee - What is the serial number of your R-4B??? 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs kc9...@aol.com wrote: Gary, Thanks for the information...yes,,,I get the clicking/static like sound as described. Not distortion...that is of course normal when the opposite SB is heard. D3 is fine...Good F/B ratio If you are tuned into a strong signal kind of by itself, of course you won't be hearing the wrong SB at all...BUT, If there is a adjacent strong signal and his 'wrong SB' is in the front end PB...you hear the clicking and it is pretty bad. It is the worst (of course) when you listen to a weak or moderate signal and a strong signal is nearby. The R-4A AND the R-4B here do exactly the same thing. My R-4C does not. I do not hink it is something only wrong with THIS R-4A. It would be nice if others with a R-4A or B would see if they hear it to... From a tech. standpoint my last post here describes exactly what is happening. Be nice to find a solution so anyone wanting it could install it. 73, Lee -Original Message- From: Gary Winblad To: kc9cdt Cc: drakelist Sent: Thu, Jan 12, 2012 10:53 pm Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Interesting discovery/problem about R-4A R-4B I think what you are describing is perfectly normal. Strong signals within the roofing 10Kc(KHz) filter WILL upset your desired weaker signal. The NB works by detecting and killing sharp noise spikes BEFORE they get lengthened by passing through the narrow IF filter. IIRC, it was a Drake innovation to limit the NB detection bandwidth to 10Kc. AVC is generated after the sharp IF filter, and the stronger the signal, the more the AVC cuts gain starting with V1, just as you have described. The only problem seems to be that you say you get the strong signal distortion even with the NB turned OFF, that is not right... IMHO. Like Garey already suggested, problems near D3 and the NB switch is most likely I would think, this is where the NB gets turned OFF, V9 should be running the same with NB on or off. 73, Gary WB6OGD - Original Message - From: kc9...@aol.com To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 20:18:38 - (UTC) Subject: [Drakelist] Interesting discovery/problem about R-4A R-4B Drake Enthusiasts, While working on a Drake R-4A..(11 tube) .I discovered something that bothered me...and thought for sure it was a problem needing fixing! Yeah...I do like things to work well. OK...find a nice STRONG signal...maybe S-9 ++ (20 over) tune it in it sounds great...OK...now carefully tune to the opposite sideband of that same signal. NB is off...not that it matters, now...listen carefully...of course you hear the garbled opposite sideband...BUT also you hear a lot of clicking/arcing like noise on voice peaks especially. Loud enough to be a botherIF you PULL the Noise blanker tube V9 and or V10...the noise goes away! Huh! the NB is OFF, so why do we hear that racket?And why does pulling the tube fix it? Well go off looking to see what's wrong so I can fix itspent quite a lot of timelooked at lots of things with the scope. Discovered what was going on is: If you scope the grid or plate of V9 the 50 kc NB amp...you see a relatively small signal when the signal is tuned into the correct SB...BUT if you look at it when
Re: [Drakelist] Interesting discovery/problem about R-4A R-4B
Ok Lee, NB is off...not that it matters, now...listen carefully...of course you hear the garbled opposite sideband...BUT also you hear a lot of clicking/arcing like noise on voice peaks especially. Loud enough to be a bother.. This is absolutely NOT reproducable(?) here. Why is this a problem since we don't really listen to the wrong SB? Well, IF you are listening to a nice signal AND right next door a signal is pounding in and the RX hears the wrong SB for it (and it will based on the location as to the good signal you want) you get the clicking etc that is loud because the interfering signal is strong. Well turn off the NB. IF your desired signal is now covered in noise, turn it back on and suffer ;-) Really, I have never gotten any clicking or distortion with the NB off, definitely DO get it with NB on. 73, Gary WB6OGD - Original Message - From: kc9...@aol.com To: gpola...@cinci.rr.com, drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 18:23:35 - (UTC) Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Interesting discovery/problem about R-4A R-4B Gary, Here is my original post: While working on a Drake R-4A..(11 tube) .I discovered something that bothered me...and thought for sure it was a problem needing fixing! Yeah...I do like things to work well. OK...find a nice STRONG signal...maybe S-9 ++ (20 over) tune it in it sounds great...OK...now carefully tune to the opposite sideband of that same signal. NB is off...not that it matters, now...listen carefully...of course you hear the garbled opposite sideband...BUT also you hear a lot of clicking/arcing like noise on voice peaks especially. Loud enough to be a botherIF you PULL the Noise blanker tube V9 and or V10...the noise goes away! Huh! the NB is OFF, so why do we hear that racket?And why does pulling the tube fix it? Well go off looking to see what's wrong so I can fix itspent quite a lot of timelooked at lots of things with the scope. Discovered what was going on is: If you scope the grid or plate of V9 the 50 kc NB amp...you see a relatively small signal when the signal is tuned into the correct SB...BUT if you look at it when tuned to the wrong SB...WOW huge signal level (maybe 5-10 times as strong) ...and that signal level is getting through the NB amp, shaper and amp...and clamping the plate of V4 the IF amp right before the PB tuning...thus creating the annoying clicking sounds. That's why it stops when you pull the NB tube(s). So, got to looking at the AVC signals and how it works at the grid of V9 the 50 kc amp going into the NB sectionfound out the AVC does not throttle back as much with a wrong SB sigal as the properly tunes one! So the signal. Why is this a problem since we don't really listen to the wrong SB? Well, IF you are listening to a nice signal AND right next door a signal is pounding in and the RX hears the wrong SB for it (and it will based on the location as to the good signal you want) you get the clicking etc that is loud because the interfering signal is strong. Now that I understood what was happening...I looked for a bugnot easy to find for sure Ah Hah! I thought let's look at my R-4B I have here to compare the scope patterns and voltages in question. Maybe I'll learn something helpful? And does my R-4C do this? Answer is: Oh no...the R-4B does exactly the same thing! (R-4C does not) This R-4A is not really broke! or both the R-4A and the R-4B I have here are both broken?? Looks to me like a design issue in the AVC circuits. 1) Hey gang...try iy out, let me know what you discover. Please. 2) Anyone already fixed this with a MOD? Lee Simmonds Summit DCS LLC 260-799-4077 Office 260-403-6936 Cell -Original Message- From: Gary Poland To: kc9cdt Sent: Sat, Jan 14, 2012 12:47 pm Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Interesting discovery/problem about R-4A R-4B I have all three “ TWIN “ lines, what is it you want tried out?? ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Interesting discovery/problem about R-4A R-4B
Note, there are two rx doing the same (two serials).. - Original Message - From: Garey Barrell k4...@mindspring.com To: kc9...@aol.com Cc: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 19:29:13 - (UTC) Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Interesting discovery/problem about R-4A R-4B Lee - IS THE SERIAL NUMBER A SECRET?? 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs kc9...@aol.com wrote: Gary, Here is my original post: ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
[Drakelist] Fwd: Need relay to Garey K4OAH...
Garey, Do you copy Lee?? Gary - Forwarded Message - From: kc9...@aol.com To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 22:19:21 - (UTC) Subject: [Drakelist] Need relay to Garey K4OAH... For some reason...Garey K4OAH...is not getting my e-mails??? Please contact me to do a relay to him. After the first one comes forward...I'll annouce I have one...so others can know I have someone. Thanks, 73, Lee, KC9CDT ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Interesting discovery/problem about R-4A R-4B
I think what you are describing is perfectly normal. Strong signals within the roofing 10Kc(KHz) filter WILL upset your desired weaker signal. The NB works by detecting and killing sharp noise spikes BEFORE they get lengthened by passing through the narrow IF filter. IIRC, it was a Drake innovation to limit the NB detection bandwidth to 10Kc. AVC is generated after the sharp IF filter, and the stronger the signal, the more the AVC cuts gain starting with V1, just as you have described. The only problem seems to be that you say you get the strong signal distortion even with the NB turned OFF, that is not right... IMHO. Like Garey already suggested, problems near D3 and the NB switch is most likely I would think, this is where the NB gets turned OFF, V9 should be running the same with NB on or off. 73, Gary WB6OGD - Original Message - From: kc9...@aol.com To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 20:18:38 - (UTC) Subject: [Drakelist] Interesting discovery/problem about R-4A R-4B Drake Enthusiasts, While working on a Drake R-4A..(11 tube) .I discovered something that bothered me...and thought for sure it was a problem needing fixing! Yeah...I do like things to work well. OK...find a nice STRONG signal...maybe S-9 ++ (20 over) tune it in it sounds great...OK...now carefully tune to the opposite sideband of that same signal. NB is off...not that it matters, now...listen carefully...of course you hear the garbled opposite sideband...BUT also you hear a lot of clicking/arcing like noise on voice peaks especially. Loud enough to be a botherIF you PULL the Noise blanker tube V9 and or V10...the noise goes away! Huh! the NB is OFF, so why do we hear that racket?And why does pulling the tube fix it? Well go off looking to see what's wrong so I can fix itspent quite a lot of timelooked at lots of things with the scope. Discovered what was going on is: If you scope the grid or plate of V9 the 50 kc NB amp...you see a relatively small signal when the signal is tuned into the correct SB...BUT if you look at it when tuned to the wrong SB...WOW huge signal level (maybe 5-10 times as strong) ...and that signal level is getting through the NB amp, shaper and amp...and clamping the plate of V4 the IF amp right before the PB tuning...thus creating the annoying clicking sounds. That's why it stops when you pull the NB tube(s). So, got to looking at the AVC signals and how it works at the grid of V9 the 50 kc amp going into the NB sectionfound out the AVC does not throttle back as much with a wrong SB sigal as the properly tunes one! So the signal. Why is this a problem since we don't really listen to the wrong SB? Well, IF you are listening to a nice signal AND right next door a signal is pounding in and the RX hears the wrong SB for it (and it will based on the location as to the good signal you want) you get the clicking etc that is loud because the interfering signal is strong. Now that I understood what was happening...I looked for a bugnot easy to find for sure Ah Hah! I thought let's look at my R-4B I have here to compare the scope patterns and voltages in question. Maybe I'll learn something helpful? And does my R-4C do this? Answer is: Oh no...the R-4B does exactly the same thing! (R-4C does not) This R-4A is not really broke! or both the R-4A and the R-4B I have here are both broken?? Looks to me like a design issue in the AVC circuits. 1) Hey gang...try iy out, let me know what you discover. Please. 2) Anyone already fixed this with a MOD? Thanks, 73, Lee, KC9CDT ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Slightly Off-Topic: EICO 717 KEYER
To go even more Off Topic... YES Curt, you will like it a lot! W9TO was the designer, hence the name. As a 15 year old kid in 1967 I built my version in our high school electronics shop class. It has never missed a DIT since! As a confirmed Drake lover even back then, I folded up a Drake style chassis/box so it matched my R-4A. As a kid, and as my first attempt at using a sheet metal brake and sheer, it came out a little bit big, but it still matched Drake pretty well if I don't say so myself... My request: I built it from a design in (I am pretty sure) in a 1959 W6SAI Radio Handbook than my dad (SK) had. As copy machines hadn't been invented yet(!?) I of course don't have a copy. DOES ANYONE have this manual and could make me a copy of the article so I at least have a schematic in case it ever breaks??? Or even just confirm that there is indeed a W9TO keyer in there. I have googled and found that there was a pdf copy on line at one time but it seems to have gone away.. TIA and HAPPY NEW YEAR to all, 73, Gary WB6OGD - Original Message - From: Steve Berg wa9...@tbc.net To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Mon, 02 Jan 2012 16:51:59 - (UTC) Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Slightly Off-Topic: EICO 717 KEYER Curt, you will like that TO keyer a lot. I have had one for more than 25 years. It is a very good idea to replace all of the capacitors in it as the electrolytics are shot by now, and the black beauties are not in the best of shape, either. Before I replaced the black beauties, the speed of the keyer would vary quite a bit with changes in humidity. Mine has some quirks with the power supply and VR tubes, but it still works very well. I will eventually get those sorted out, too. 73, Steve WA9JML On 1/2/2012 7:15 AM, Eddy Swynar wrote: On 2012-01-01, at 7:50 PM, Curt Nixon wrote: Just picked up a Hallicrafters TO keyer for the vintage desk also. Same keyer basically. */Hi Curt,/* I think that the one major difference betwixt the /EICO/ the /Hallicrafters TO/keyer is that very same ...weak link in the chain that affected mine here, i.e. the /TO/used (I believe) a sealed mercury-wetted keying relay, whereas the /EICO/went with that reed-relay-in-a-field-coil route to achieve its external keying... I say weak link as no offence to the /EICO/designers, but rather, as a potential source for trouble that may well require the owner's attention at some point in its future...trouble is, if said owner is not all that familiar with the whys wherefores of reed relays / field coils (my right hand is raised!), then one can through a /LOT/of vexing gyrations travails in the trouble-shooting process that are simply not necessary...! *: )* */~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ/* ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] kind to finals tuneup for the twins
The first reference to this procedure that I know of was from Jan 1977 HR mag in a hints and kinks style post by W7DIM. He says you can even peak up the LOAD control... Like Garey, I make a table of all settings and just set them from that. I need to set my Heath antenna tuner too. Just a slight touch up then is all that is needed, and if its a good DX or something, maybe not even a touch ;-) 73, Gary WB6OGD - Original Message - From: kc9...@aol.com To: wd8...@yahoo.com, drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Mon, 02 Jan 2012 15:29:51 - (UTC) Subject: Re: [Drakelist] kind to finals tuneup for the twins Just be sure the LAST thing you do is dip the plate current so you are resonant. This is at the final power setting (fully tuned up) I am so fast at tuning for MAX smoke that I think I am very kind to the finals. Probably a more important thing is use a small AUX fan for cooling...I just set mine on top suck the air OUT. That baby runs nice cool. 73, Lee -Original Message- From: Ron To: drakelist Sent: Mon, Jan 2, 2012 5:37 am Subject: [Drakelist] kind to finals tuneup for the twins Just read someones post about being new to the Drake community. Well the archives have a great amount of information, unfortunately it is difficult to go through and catch everything. The following is a gem IMO for the owners of Drake twins. I do not take credit for the idea, just want to pass it on to new folks in our community. http://www.mail-archive.com/drakelist@zerobeat.net/msg01540.html 73, Ron WD8SBB ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] kind to finals tuneup for the twins
Oh, sorry. Well I used a table ;-) But of course RF TUNE and GAIN is easy. And like you I am (currently) limited to using a Kenwood modified to run an Icom remote tuner hooked to only about a 15ft mostly vertical wire along side a small tree trunk... NO chart needed, I do love auto-tune!! 73, Gary WB6OGD - Original Message - From: Garey Barrell k4...@mindspring.com To: Gary Winblad garywinb...@comcast.net Cc: kc9...@aol.com, drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Mon, 02 Jan 2012 19:37:26 - (UTC) Subject: Re: [Drakelist] kind to finals tuneup for the twins Gary - One thing I do NOT have a 'table of all settings'. The PLATE and LOAD should end up 'around' 10 - 11 o'clock for a 50 ohm load. Close enough for starters. The RF TUNE control is 'calibrated' for frequency, and the GAIN control should also end up 'around' 10 o'clock for SSB/TUNE, somewhat higher for CW. These settings are close for all bands, with a few exceptions for the LOAD on the higher (11 - 1 o'clock) and lowest (9 - 10 o'clock). An antenna tuner is a whole nother thing. Here a chart can be very helpful. Currently I'm limited to a 44' attic dipole with ladder line to an LDG auto tuner in the closet. Just tap the key and the LDG is there and I just tune into a 50 ohm load! 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs Gary Winblad wrote: The first reference to this procedure that I know of was from Jan 1977 HR mag in a hints and kinks style post by W7DIM. He says you can even peak up the LOAD control... Like Garey, I make a table of all settings and just set them from that. I need to set my Heath antenna tuner too. Just a slight touch up then is all that is needed, and if its a good DX or something, maybe not even a touch ;-) 73, Gary WB6OGD - Original Message - From: kc9...@aol.com To: wd8...@yahoo.com, drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Mon, 02 Jan 2012 15:29:51 - (UTC) Subject: Re: [Drakelist] kind to finals tuneup for the twins Just be sure the LAST thing you do is dip the plate current so you are resonant. This is at the final power setting (fully tuned up) I am so fast at tuning for MAX smoke that I think I am very kind to the finals. Probably a more important thing is use a small AUX fan for cooling...I just set mine on top suck the air OUT. That baby runs nice cool. 73, Lee -Original Message- From: Ron To: drakelist Sent: Mon, Jan 2, 2012 5:37 am Subject: [Drakelist] kind to finals tuneup for the twins Just read someones post about being new to the Drake community. Well the archives have a great amount of information, unfortunately it is difficult to go through and catch everything. The following is a gem IMO for the owners of Drake twins. I do not take credit for the idea, just want to pass it on to new folks in our community. http://www.mail-archive.com/drakelist@zerobeat.net/msg01540.html 73, Ron WD8SBB ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] Slightly Off-Topic: W9TO KEYER
THANK YOU everyone for all the info. It has been a great trip down memory lane. I been googlin. Garey, I saw several references that you are right, it was never published. Wow, I KNEW I didn't build it from a Hallicrafters manual.. I finally found a reference that must be correct.. it WAS the W6SAI Radio Handbook, but it was the 1962 issue. I pulled the covers off mine and yes, it has the same tube lineup as the HA-1 (including BOTH a 0B2 and an 0A2!!). I remember I got the part layout from the article, it uses a unique dual in line terminal board to hold the resistors and capacitors. All the kid could scrounge was two similar but shorter boards, so that is what is in there. And as someone mentioned, the sidetone is pretty nasty. I was able to cobble in a TONE and VOLUME control that sort of works.. So does anyone have a 1962 version of the W6SAI Handbook or can find a link?? 73, Gary WB6OGD - Original Message - From: Garey Barrell k4...@mindspring.com To: Gary Winblad garywinb...@comcast.net Cc: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Mon, 02 Jan 2012 19:59:47 - (UTC) Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Slightly Off-Topic: EICO 717 KEYER Gary - The 'TO Keyer' was never published!! I have a copy somewhere of the original schematic made by Jim Ricks, W9TO, that he sent out to interested individuals. Apparently he was already in talks with Bill Halligan to market it, as the schematic was marked 'do not distribute' or something to that effect. I also have a '59 Handbook here (I think that's the brown one) and will see if I can find it. I believe it's on the internet as well. Here is one location. A quick scan of the INDEX does not show an electronic keyer of any kind. May have been a later edition. My first keyer was built about 1959 from an old (then!) QST article. Had a 2D21 Thyratron, a 12AT7 divider, and an 0A2 regulator. It worked 'ok' but was extremely sensitive to line voltage changes. Unfortunately my Mom got a new electric skillet for Christmas that same year, and while I'm trying to NCS a net upstairs she's fixing dinner in the kitchen. Every time that @%$# skillet would turn ON (or OFF) the line voltage would shift enough that I had to readjust the thyratron for the correct speed. Made things interesting! :-) 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs Gary Winblad wrote: To go even more Off Topic... YES Curt, you will like it a lot! W9TO was the designer, hence the name. As a 15 year old kid in 1967 I built my version in our high school electronics shop class. It has never missed a DIT since! As a confirmed Drake lover even back then, I folded up a Drake style chassis/box so it matched my R-4A. As a kid, and as my first attempt at using a sheet metal brake and sheer, it came out a little bit big, but it still matched Drake pretty well if I don't say so myself... My request: I built it from a design in (I am pretty sure) in a 1959 W6SAI Radio Handbook than my dad (SK) had. As copy machines hadn't been invented yet(!?) I of course don't have a copy. DOES ANYONE have this manual and could make me a copy of the article so I at least have a schematic in case it ever breaks??? Or even just confirm that there is indeed a W9TO keyer in there. I have googled and found that there was a pdf copy on line at one time but it seems to have gone away.. TIA and HAPPY NEW YEAR to all, 73, Gary WB6OGD - Original Message - From: Steve Berg To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Mon, 02 Jan 2012 16:51:59 - (UTC) Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Slightly Off-Topic: EICO 717 KEYER Curt, you will like that TO keyer a lot. I have had one for more than 25 years. It is a very good idea to replace all of the capacitors in it as the electrolytics are shot by now, and the black beauties are not in the best of shape, either. Before I replaced the black beauties, the speed of the keyer would vary quite a bit with changes in humidity. Mine has some quirks with the power supply and VR tubes, but it still works very well. I will eventually get those sorted out, too. 73, Steve WA9JML On 1/2/2012 7:15 AM, Eddy Swynar wrote: On 2012-01-01, at 7:50 PM, Curt Nixon wrote: Just picked up a Hallicrafters TO keyer for the vintage desk also. Same keyer basically. */Hi Curt,/* I think that the one major difference betwixt the /EICO/ the /Hallicrafters TO/keyer is that very same ...weak link in the chain that affected mine here, i.e. the /TO/used (I believe) a sealed mercury-wetted keying relay, whereas the /EICO/went with that reed-relay-in-a-field-coil route to achieve its external keying... I say weak link as no offence to the /EICO/designers, but rather, as a potential source for trouble that may well require the owner's attention at some point in its future...trouble is, if said owner is not all that familiar with the whys wherefores
Re: [Drakelist] Slightly Off-Topic: W9TO KEYER
Hi Al,OGD Thanks for the confirmation it is in there. NO, don't wreck your book to do it.. not that important. Thanks to other Drakers(?) I now have the HA-1 manual and that should always let me fix it (not that it has ever needed anything since 1967 anyway). Buying radio books on your honeymoon? Wow, you are as sick as me, I remember buying a new vernier drive for my old SBE SB-34 when we went past the factory on my honeymoon. 73 and Happy New Year, Gary WB6 - Original Message - From: Al Parker anc...@ec.rr.com To: Gary Winblad garywinb...@comcast.net Cc: k4...@mindspring.com, drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Tue, 03 Jan 2012 01:30:01 - (UTC) Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Slightly Off-Topic: W9TO KEYER Hi Gary, I have that handbook, it's on pg 597, 'A 9TO Electronic Key' My book is in pristine condx, I bought it on my honeymoon in 1963, and it's been well cred for since. I can probably flatten it to make scans without hurting it, but it might be out of focus near the center. 73, Al, W8UT www.boatanchors.org www.hammarlund.info There is nothing -- absolutely nothing -- half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats Ratty, to Mole On 1/2/2012 8:02 PM, Gary Winblad wrote: THANK YOU everyone for all the info. It has been a great trip down memory lane. I been googlin. Garey, I saw several references that you are right, it was never published. Wow, I KNEW I didn't build it from a Hallicrafters manual.. I finally found a reference that must be correct.. it WAS the W6SAI Radio Handbook, but it was the 1962 issue. I pulled the covers off mine and yes, it has the same tube lineup as the HA-1 (including BOTH a 0B2 and an 0A2!!). I remember I got the part layout from the article, it uses a unique dual in line terminal board to hold the resistors and capacitors. All the kid could scrounge was two similar but shorter boards, so that is what is in there. And as someone mentioned, the sidetone is pretty nasty. I was able to cobble in a TONE and VOLUME control that sort of works.. So does anyone have a 1962 version of the W6SAI Handbook or can find a link?? 73, Gary WB6OGD - Original Message - From: Garey Barrell To: Gary Winblad Cc: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Mon, 02 Jan 2012 19:59:47 - (UTC) Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Slightly Off-Topic: EICO 717 KEYER Gary - The 'TO Keyer' was never published!! I have a copy somewhere of the original schematic made by Jim Ricks, W9TO, that he sent out to interested individuals. Apparently he was already in talks with Bill Halligan to market it, as the schematic was marked 'do not distribute' or something to that effect. I also have a '59 Handbook here (I think that's the brown one) and will see if I can find it. I believe it's on the internet as well. Here is one location. A quick scan of the INDEX does not show an electronic keyer of any kind. May have been a later edition. My first keyer was built about 1959 from an old (then!) QST article. Had a 2D21 Thyratron, a 12AT7 divider, and an 0A2 regulator. It worked 'ok' but was extremely sensitive to line voltage changes. Unfortunately my Mom got a new electric skillet for Christmas that same year, and while I'm trying to NCS a net upstairs she's fixing dinner in the kitchen. Every time that @%$# skillet would turn ON (or OFF) the line voltage would shift enough that I had to readjust the thyratron for the correct speed. Made things interesting! :-) 73, Garey - K4OAH Glen Allen, VA Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs Gary Winblad wrote: To go even more Off Topic... YES Curt, you will like it a lot! W9TO was the designer, hence the name. As a 15 year old kid in 1967 I built my version in our high school electronics shop class. It has never missed a DIT since! As a confirmed Drake lover even back then, I folded up a Drake style chassis/box so it matched my R-4A. As a kid, and as my first attempt at using a sheet metal brake and sheer, it came out a little bit big, but it still matched Drake pretty well if I don't say so myself... My request: I built it from a design in (I am pretty sure) in a 1959 W6SAI Radio Handbook than my dad (SK) had. As copy machines hadn't been invented yet(!?) I of course don't have a copy. DOES ANYONE have this manual and could make me a copy of the article so I at least have a schematic in case it ever breaks??? Or even just confirm that there is indeed a W9TO keyer in there. I have googled and found that there was a pdf copy on line at one time but it seems to have gone away.. TIA and HAPPY NEW YEAR to all, 73, Gary WB6OGD - Original Message - From: Steve Berg To: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Mon, 02 Jan 2012 16:51:59 - (UTC) Subject: Re: [Drakelist] Slightly Off-Topic: EICO 717 KEYER Curt, you will like that TO keyer a lot. I have had one
Re: [Drakelist] T-4X Stability: EPILOGUE
Nice work Eddy. I do my tests a little differently, I look at overall stability by zero beating WWV. Regardless, my early T-4X (5KHz markings) is also just about 1.2KHz. But my slightly newer R-4A (13 tube, but 25KHz markings and vernier Preselector) is worse at just about 1.5KHz. IIRC, there is a drift spec. somewhere of... 1.5KHz, if so, WE are in spec :) And, like you, after a GOOD warmup, they are pretty darn stable!! I have also noted that the drift seems worse at the high end of the dial. 73, Gary WB6OGD - Original Message - From: Eddy Swynar deswy...@xplornet.ca Now---how about all those other T-4X rigs that are out there in general circulation...? Are the results of YOUR stability tests similar to mine here...? ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ ___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
Re: [Drakelist] T-4X Stability
Something I haven't seen discussed and I have noticed on my R-4A is: One end of the PTO range drifts A LOT more than the other end. IIRC it is the high end of the dial (where the PTO slug is inside). 73, Gary WB6OGD - Original Message - From: Eddy Swynar deswy...@xplornet.ca To: captc...@flash.net Cc: drakelist@zerobeat.net Sent: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 13:13:18 - (UTC) Subject: Re: [Drakelist] T-4X Stability Hi Curt, Wow...! What I really wanted to do here, primarily, was to validate my fix of the Drake PTO that's been practically driving me to drink here lo these past many months! Hi Hi. What I'll do, then, is warm-up the 751Aseparately for one full hour, before initiating a repeat of the test that I did the other day. Any major divurgence in the apparent drifting of the PTO in the new test (as compared to yesterday's) can then be reasonably assumed to be the fault of the ICOM rather than the T-4X, all things remaining the same... Stay tuned---this just gets more more interesting all the time, I must say... ~73!~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ * On 2011-11-26, at 8:02 AM, Curt Nixon wrote: GM Eddy: Even the 100Kc calibrator is going to suffer from start-up drift. At the very least--and surely acceptable for a tens-of-Hz startup measurement, just leaving the 751A on for some period of time before doing the start-up test on the Drake should suffice. I settled my 751 down an amazing amount by simply surrounding the primary crystal with an improvised styrofoam box and some cotton. Its all as stable as a crystal can be without some PLL or temp compensation done on it. I guess the main thing is to use a standard that is already settled in and warmed up when making the turn-on drift measurement. If you haven't been involved in an FMT, (Frequency Measurement Test) the level of effort will shock you!. But we're talking a few hundredths (yes, .01) Hz. Small enough so the variations seen in the over-the-air WWV broadcasts become non-useable when multi-path is present. What you find out real fast is that if you can control the temperature, the frequency of most equipment follows along. Current state of the art is GPS-disciplined rubidium reference oscillators. It makes my military oven-ized HP reference osc seem flaky! Any way, thanks for sharing your results. I will be interested to see how much different they are with a pre-stabilized 751A as the reference. BTW, if you use a PC in the shack, a program like FlDigi, or Spectran, (or Spectrum Lab if you are really into it) can help you plot very good reference information using WWV at 2.5, 5, or the CHU frequency infor. They plot using an audio reference from your rig. pretty simple really and easy millihertz accuracy right out of the gate. Have fun. Curt KU8L On 11/26/2011 7:37 AM, Eddy Swynar wrote: Hi Curt, When I get the chance this weekend I'm gonna run some stability tests on the 751A here, using a 100-KHz crystal calibrator / oscillator as its umpire... You've got me thinking: maybe there really WAS a reason that ICOM offered for sale an optional high-standard / ultra-stable crystal oscillator as option for the 751A back-in-the-day...! ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ *** On 2011-11-25, at 9:05 PM, Curt Nixon wrote: Not sure anyone asked this, and I didn't see it in your initial post, but was the 751A already warmed up when you tested the drake? What is the frequency reference in the 751A? I recently used a 751 which is essentially the same frequency determining set-up for a freq measurement test and I can tell you, it isn't all that stable either...and, it goes up and down with small temperature differences over a span of only several minutes. Even when it had been running in Rx only for over 24 hours. So..keep in mind that the data you recorded is the net difference from a moving reference. After warm-up, I'm not so sure that the 751A is any better than the Drake. They are a lot better if they have the TCXO module added, but I didn't see that mentioned. Anyway, just curious what the reference conditions were. Thanks Curt KU8L On 11/25/2011 5:57 PM, Garey Barrell wrote: Steve - I think 30 minutes is a reasonable 'warm-up' time. IF the radio is in a controlled environment.!! Take one out of the garage in winter and plug it in, it's gonna take considerably longer before everything reaches equilibrium. You have some sizable chunks of iron and steel in there that can absorb quite a bit of heat. From 60 degrees to a 'nominal' 75 degree ambient on top of normal internal heating would take a while, perhaps an hour?!? :-) Plus as Evan said there will be a delta from transmitting as well. A fan makes a BIG difference in this if you are into long transmissions or TTY, etc. This is
[Drakelist] Changing Crystal frequency...Penning
HI, Not sure if I can post to this list, I have tried for years... This talk of changing crystal frequencies is great. Do you guys know about penning?? Google it. I learned about it on the Softrock40 group. You can take a cheap ( $1.00) computer crystal and change its frequency down by HUNDREDS of KHz! You just open it up (I use a Dremel with a cutoff wheel) and write on the crystal with a Sharpie Permenant marker. Just go little mark by little mark (and wait for it to dry) and you can make a custom crystal for any frequency you want (well, depending... look at all the crystals available that are just a little higher in frequency).. 73, Gary WB6OGD___ Drakelist mailing list Drakelist@zerobeat.net http://mailman.zerobeat.net/mailman/listinfo/drakelist
