Re: [Elecraft] K3s audio problem

[Mark E. Musick]

Sid,
Why aren't you using the sound card in the K3S? Then your JT65 and PSK
software talks to the K3S sound card through the USB cable. Then you do not
need external sound cards or connections to LINE IN, LINE OUT or the front
panel MIC jack.
I operate AFSK RTTY and this is how I have MTTY, N1MM and Writelog set up.

Mark, WB9CIF

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Don
Wilhelm
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 1:29 AM
To: Sid Frissell ; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3s audio problem

Sid,

In that case, you would set the MIC SEL menu to FP.L as you have it, and
feed the soundcard output to the mic input.

Note that this has nothing to do with your headset that you use for SSB.
Use DATA A mode rather than SSB because that data submode sets compression
to 1-1 and the TX EQ to flat.  That setting is independent of any settings
you may have for SSB.

I am just curious why you have not connected the soundcard output to the
Line In jack on the back of the K3 - it is not only more convenient when
switching between SSB and data modes, but it offers transformer isolation
for the soundcard lines.

In either case, adjust the audio level to produce 4 bars solid with the 5th
bar flashing on the ALC meter - that is the "no ALC" point for the K3.  Set
the power desired with the K3 power knob.
Ignore the "internet" advice to adjust the power using the audio level -
that does not work with the K3.  Adjust the power level with the power knob.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/10/2016 8:37 PM, Sid Frissell wrote:
> Don and Bill-- I am using the front panel mike jack and Mic-select (Data
mode) is set FP.L.
>
> Sid, NZ7M
>

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and inverter generators

[dmoes]

Have a look at this video  its pretty good from ARRL on small 
inverter generators.   the filter part is the key.


https://youtu.be/rOH7Ze7wreQ

I would not cheep out however   get a cheep generator and it might do 
you for a few years and you end up having to get another one

spend good money on a Honda or Yamaha and you have one for life.

we use an inverter generator for Field Day 4A+Gota and VHF  running 
various rigs and a serious selection of power supplies both linear and 
switching.  including desktops for each stationits either been a 
Honda  2800W inverter or a Yamaha 2400W inverter  both have noise 
filters at the generator and a ground rod at the generator.  so noise 
has not been an issue.




David Moes
VE3SD




--- Original message ---
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 and inverter generators
From: Ramon Tristani 
To: Elecraft Mailing List 
Date: Wednesday, 10/08/2016 10:47 AM

I want to take my K3 out for portable use and also training for 
emergencies with my local ham friends here. I am thinking of buying 
the Predator Inverter Generator that Harbor Freight sells. Does 
anybody out there has had any experience with it while using it to 
power a radio? Comments appreciated.


Ramon, NQ9V


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Re: [Elecraft] K3s audio problem

[Don Wilhelm]

Sid,

In that case, you would set the MIC SEL menu to FP.L as you have it, and 
feed the soundcard output to the mic input.


Note that this has nothing to do with your headset that you use for SSB.
Use DATA A mode rather than SSB because that data submode sets 
compression to 1-1 and the TX EQ to flat.  That setting is independent 
of any settings you may have for SSB.


I am just curious why you have not connected the soundcard output to the 
Line In jack on the back of the K3 - it is not only more convenient when 
switching between SSB and data modes, but it offers transformer 
isolation for the soundcard lines.


In either case, adjust the audio level to produce 4 bars solid with the 
5th bar flashing on the ALC meter - that is the "no ALC" point for the 
K3.  Set the power desired with the K3 power knob.
Ignore the "internet" advice to adjust the power using the audio level - 
that does not work with the K3.  Adjust the power level with the power knob.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/10/2016 8:37 PM, Sid Frissell wrote:

Don and Bill-- I am using the front panel mike jack and Mic-select (Data mode) 
is set FP.L.

Sid, NZ7M



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[Elecraft] K3s audio problem

[Sid Frissell]

Don and Bill-- I am using the front panel mike jack and Mic-select (Data mode) 
is set FP.L.

Sid, NZ7M

Sent From Sid Frissell's iPad
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and inverter generators

[Mark Kempisty]

Use a switching power supply with the generator or any other questionable AC 
source. They gobble up unstable AC like no one's business. 

Take care,MarkAA3K 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3S audio problem

[Walter Underwood]

What headset?

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Aug 10, 2016, at 4:21 PM, Nr4c  wrote:
> 
> Which mic jack is selected, front or rear?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> ...nr4c. bill
> 
> 
> On Aug 10, 2016, at 7:11 PM, Sid Frissell  wrote:
> 
>>> Help!  I seem to have created a problem for myself (something I do more 
>>> often each year!). While trying to set up new headphones with boom mic for 
>>> use with my K3S s/n 10462 I apparently changed a menu or config. menu  item 
>>> I shouldn't have!  Now I have no audio on data modes JT-65, PSK-31, etc. 
>>> (which had been working fine until now)  All I remember changing for sure 
>>> was turning on mic bias  Turning up the mic gain control does nothing. I 
>>> get no ALC or PWR meter readings.  Transmit red light does come on but 
>>> that's all. Still can work CW and new mic works on SSB. Anyone have any 
>>> idea what stupid thing I might have done to cause this?  Ain't getting old 
>>> fun!!  Thanks
>> 
>> Sid, NZ7M
>> 
>> Sent From Sid Frissell's iPad
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Re: [Elecraft] K3S audio problem

[Nr4c]

Which mic jack is selected, front or rear?

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


On Aug 10, 2016, at 7:11 PM, Sid Frissell  wrote:

>> Help!  I seem to have created a problem for myself (something I do more 
>> often each year!). While trying to set up new headphones with boom mic for 
>> use with my K3S s/n 10462 I apparently changed a menu or config. menu  item 
>> I shouldn't have!  Now I have no audio on data modes JT-65, PSK-31, etc. 
>> (which had been working fine until now)  All I remember changing for sure 
>> was turning on mic bias  Turning up the mic gain control does nothing. I get 
>> no ALC or PWR meter readings.  Transmit red light does come on but that's 
>> all. Still can work CW and new mic works on SSB. Anyone have any idea what 
>> stupid thing I might have done to cause this?  Ain't getting old fun!!  
>> Thanks
> 
> Sid, NZ7M
> 
> Sent From Sid Frissell's iPad
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Re: [Elecraft] K3S audio problem

[Don Wilhelm]

Sid,

Go into the DATA A submode and check the menu MIC SEL setting - that 
setting should be per mode, but you may have inadvertently set it to 
something other than LINE IN.


"Old" is a state of mind, quite apart from chronological age. Keep 
thinking young!  Although the physical aspects of getting older "sucks".


73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/10/2016 7:11 PM, Sid Frissell wrote:

Help!  I seem to have created a problem for myself (something I do more often 
each year!). While trying to set up new headphones with boom mic for use with 
my K3S s/n 10462 I apparently changed a menu or config. menu  item I shouldn't 
have!  Now I have no audio on data modes JT-65, PSK-31, etc. (which had been 
working fine until now)  All I remember changing for sure was turning on mic 
bias  Turning up the mic gain control does nothing. I get no ALC or PWR meter 
readings.  Transmit red light does come on but that's all. Still can work CW 
and new mic works on SSB. Anyone have any idea what stupid thing I might have 
done to cause this?  Ain't getting old fun!!  Thanks




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[Elecraft] K3S audio problem

[Sid Frissell]

> Help!  I seem to have created a problem for myself (something I do more often 
> each year!). While trying to set up new headphones with boom mic for use with 
> my K3S s/n 10462 I apparently changed a menu or config. menu  item I 
> shouldn't have!  Now I have no audio on data modes JT-65, PSK-31, etc. (which 
> had been working fine until now)  All I remember changing for sure was 
> turning on mic bias  Turning up the mic gain control does nothing. I get no 
> ALC or PWR meter readings.  Transmit red light does come on but that's all. 
> Still can work CW and new mic works on SSB. Anyone have any idea what stupid 
> thing I might have done to cause this?  Ain't getting old fun!!  Thanks

Sid, NZ7M

Sent From Sid Frissell's iPad
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Re: [Elecraft] K3s - KAT3A is a Great ATU!

[Phil Wheeler]

Yes, a new operating challenge: WAS with 5 Watts 
and a dummy load, Ted ;-)


A step up (or down!) from loading up bed springs, 
lawn chair and the like.


73, Phil W7OX

On 8/10/16 10:59 AM, Dauer, Edward wrote:

Reduces QRM on both ends.  Few other devices can do that.

Ted, KN1CBR


--


Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 07:43:49 -0700
From: Phil Wheeler 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3s - KAT3A is a Great ATU!
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

Of course not!  Not when we have small, convenient
dummy loads :-)

Phil W7OX

On 8/10/16 4:17 AM, MaverickNH wrote:

Antennas? We don't need no stinking antennas!  ;-)




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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and inverter generators

[dtx]

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and inverter generators

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

We're at 27 posts on this topic since this morning. Time to close the thread as 
we are well exceeding the single topic limit.


Please try to self moderate a bit more. 5-10 posts on most topics is more than 
enough and helps relieve email overload for others.


73,

Eric
Moderator etc.
/elecraft.com/

On 8/10/2016 2:35 PM, Dave Cole wrote:

On Wed, 2016-08-10 at 14:15 -0400, George Danner wrote:

We have used both the 1 Kw & 2 kw Honda inverters for field day and
had only a tiny bit of RFI.  They were both very quiet (RFI & sound
wise) compared to the 5 kW "construction" generator we used years ago.




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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and inverter generators

[Dave Cole]

On Wed, 2016-08-10 at 14:15 -0400, George Danner wrote:
> We have used both the 1 Kw & 2 kw Honda inverters for field day and
> had only a tiny bit of RFI.  They were both very quiet (RFI & sound
> wise) compared to the 5 kW "construction" generator we used years ago.

> IMHO - I'd try the Harbor Freight unit. It is 1/3 the price of a Honda
> and H.F. has a good return policy (at least in Georgia).

I must agree about the Honda, I used one on FD, and never even heard it
RF wise...  

I must respectfully disagree about testing the HF product, I would not
connect anything worth more than fifty cents to a HF generator for fear
of damage to my rigs, power supplies, etc.  

I simply do not trust anything more complicated than a screwdriver if it
is from HF.

-- 
73's, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
For software/hardware reviews see:
http://www.nk7z.net

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Re: [Elecraft] KFL3A-6K-IR Filter

[lmarion]

Thanks Joe for clearing that up.  I had read and read and still 
could not  sort that one out.


Thanks Leroy AB7CE

-Original Message- 
From: Joe Subich, W4TV 
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 8:16 AM 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KFL3A-6K-IR Filter 




Band width was 6k Hz, offset 0. When I turn the band width knob I
only get a spread of 5k. Any suggestion would help.


This is normal.  The "BW" display shows the audio bandwidth not the
IF bandwidth.  Audio bandwidth is defined as FC + WIDTH/2

In the case of [double sideband] AM, the IF bandwidth is twice that
of the audio bandwidth.  Thus a "6 KHz" filter provides roughly 3 KHz
of audio bandwidth at -6dB (the filter is nominally 6.125 KHz wide
between the -6 dB points - about 7.5 KHz at -30 dB and 9.35 KHz at
-60 dB) and rolls off rather quickly above 4.2 KHz due to the audio
lowpass filter that follows the digital to analog converter.

If you change Shift/Width to High/Low you will notice the maximum
setting for "HIGH" is 4.2 KHz - a design limit in the DSP due to the
clock frequency of the digital to analog converter.

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV


On 8/8/2016 3:35 PM, Grady Harper via Elecraft wrote:

I have just installed a new 6K AM filter in my K3s.  I configured the
filter by computer, and checked using CONFIG .  Band width was 6k Hz,
offset 0.  When I turn the band width knob I only get a spread of 5k.
Any suggestion would help.

The filter was put in slot 1.

Sent from my iPad
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and inverter generators

[Ramon Tristani]

Advice well taken. Thanks.


> On Aug 10, 2016, at 15:30, Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
> On Wed,8/10/2016 12:05 PM, Bill Cobb wrote:
>> I also have run my station on our Honda EU2000 with no issues.
> 
> Remember that it all depends on what your antennas are, how close they are to 
> the generator, and how much OTHER noise is present.
> 
> Our FD and CQP (California QSO Party) teams set up in very quiet (mile of 
> nowhere) locations with antennas very close to our Honda 2000i. Without a 
> ferrite choke on the 2000i output cable, noise on 15 and 20M was in the range 
> of S7-S8 on our K3s; with a filter (or without the generator running) noise 
> was down around S2. That's a HUGE difference -- if the S-meter is calibrated 
> to 5 dB per S-unit, that's 30 dB, the difference between being able to hear a 
> 1 kW signal and a 1W signal.
> 
> Obviously, if our station is in a developed area, our noise level is likely 
> to a be a LOT higher, more like S6-S8, and we're far less likely to hear that 
> S7-S8 generator noise. Likewise if our noise level is lower and our 
> antenna(s) are farther from the generator.
> 
> My advice -- never accept anyone's assurances that XYZ product is quiet 
> without a detailed description of the antenna farm, its location with respect 
> to the generator, and what the noise level is without the generator, because 
> without that information, those assurances are next to meaningless.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and inverter generators

[Barry LaZar]

Jim,
Thanks for the pointer to the briefing. That's good input.

We used the Honda 1000. We didn't seem to see anything on site from 
that particular generator. However, we could have.


73,
Barry
K3NDM

-- Original Message --
From: "Jim Brown" 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: 8/10/2016 1:04:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 and inverter generators


On Wed,8/10/2016 9:50 AM, Barry LaZar wrote:

Your K3 doesn't care.


The issue is not compatibility with the radio. Electronic devices, 
especially those handling power, produce RF noise that is radiated both 
by internal wiring and by external wiring (like the power cable that we 
plug into them). That RF trash is picked up by our antennas, just like 
any other RF energy. Even the very good Honda EU200oi generator 
produces moderately strong RF noise, and requires a good common mode 
choke on the power cable that plugs into it. These issues are addressed 
in the link below, which is the slides for a talk I gave on noise in 
portable setups to the Northern California Contest Club several years 
ago.


http://nccc.cc/pdf/CQP-RFI2013-2.pdf

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and inverter generators

[Jim Brown]

On Wed,8/10/2016 12:05 PM, Bill Cobb wrote:

I also have run my station on our Honda EU2000 with no issues.


Remember that it all depends on what your antennas are, how close they 
are to the generator, and how much OTHER noise is present.


Our FD and CQP (California QSO Party) teams set up in very quiet (mile 
of nowhere) locations with antennas very close to our Honda 2000i. 
Without a ferrite choke on the 2000i output cable, noise on 15 and 20M 
was in the range of S7-S8 on our K3s; with a filter (or without the 
generator running) noise was down around S2. That's a HUGE difference -- 
if the S-meter is calibrated to 5 dB per S-unit, that's 30 dB, the 
difference between being able to hear a 1 kW signal and a 1W signal.


Obviously, if our station is in a developed area, our noise level is 
likely to a be a LOT higher, more like S6-S8, and we're far less likely 
to hear that S7-S8 generator noise. Likewise if our noise level is lower 
and our antenna(s) are farther from the generator.


My advice -- never accept anyone's assurances that XYZ product is quiet 
without a detailed description of the antenna farm, its location with 
respect to the generator, and what the noise level is without the 
generator, because without that information, those assurances are next 
to meaningless.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and inverter generators

[Jim Cox]

I believe the Predator make generators are made in China.  I have friend who 
purchased one, worked well but lots of RFI, so much so we fired up the Honda 
EU-2000.  Another problem is service, since no parts are available, you cant 
get repaired anywhere in my area of the country.  I have the EU-2000 and 
1000 and work well, no RFI, very little audible noise and local service and 
parts available if you need it.  They do cost more but like the Elecraft 
line up, you get what you pay for over the life of the product  Jim 
K4JAF


-Original Message- 
From: Ken

Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:29 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 and inverter generators

I have run my station on the Honda inverter generators (EU-2000 and
-3000).  No problems, no issues.

Ken
3. WA8JXM

On 8/10/16 10:46 AM, Ramon Tristani wrote:
I want to take my K3 out for portable use and also training for 
emergencies with my local ham friends here. I am thinking of buying the 
Predator Inverter Generator that Harbor Freight sells. Does anybody out 
there has had any experience with it while using it to power a radio? 
Comments appreciated.


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and inverter generators

[Bill Cobb]

I also have run my station on our Honda EU2000 with no issues.

Bill  k4yjj 


> On Aug 10, 2016, at 2:29 PM, Ken  wrote:
> 
> I have run my station on the Honda inverter generators (EU-2000 and -3000).  
> No problems, no issues.
> 
> Ken
> 3. WA8JXM
> 
> On 8/10/16 10:46 AM, Ramon Tristani wrote:
>> I want to take my K3 out for portable use and also training for emergencies 
>> with my local ham friends here. I am thinking of buying the Predator 
>> Inverter Generator that Harbor Freight sells. Does anybody out there has had 
>> any experience with it while using it to power a radio? Comments appreciated.
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and inverter generators

[Ken]

I have run my station on the Honda inverter generators (EU-2000 and 
-3000).  No problems, no issues.


Ken
3. WA8JXM

On 8/10/16 10:46 AM, Ramon Tristani wrote:

I want to take my K3 out for portable use and also training for emergencies 
with my local ham friends here. I am thinking of buying the Predator Inverter 
Generator that Harbor Freight sells. Does anybody out there has had any 
experience with it while using it to power a radio? Comments appreciated.


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and inverter generators

[George Danner]

We have used both the 1 Kw & 2 kw Honda inverters for field day and had only 
a tiny bit of RFI.
They were both very quiet (RFI & sound wise) compared to the 5 kW 
"construction" generator we used years ago.


IMHO - I'd try the Harbor Freight unit. It is 1/3 the price of a Honda and 
H.F. has a good return policy (at least in Georgia). At worst you would 
spend a few hours evaluating the unit.
I have no idea who actually makes the Predator unit. Several companies make 
units that all look extremely similar to each other except for color & name 
plate.


There are 2 main sources of RFI from an inverter type unit.
First is the spark-gap transmitter used to ignite the fuel/air mixture. We 
believed that was the noise we heard from the Hondas, since it changed as 
the engine speed changed.
Don't get me wrong - the noise was heard but not enough to lose any 
contacts.  No one complained or asked to not use the Hondas in later years.
The second source would be the inverter itself. I'd guess that will depend 
on the type of inverter and care they take in filtering the AC output.


I rate Harbor Freight as a cost effective alternative, similar to MFJ. 
Sometimes you don't

I do have Elecraft radios because I thought it wise to spend what they cost.

73
George

AI4VZ>>I am thinking of buying the Predator Inverter Generator that Harbor 
Freight sells. Does anybody out

there has had any experience with it while using it to power a radio?


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and inverter generators

[Ramon Tristani]

I want to thank everyone that provided comments and advice on my subject post. 
All replies have been extremely useful and my decision will not be too 
difficult to make now. 

Ramon, NQ9V

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[Elecraft] K3s - KAT3A is a Great ATU!

[Dauer, Edward]

Reduces QRM on both ends.  Few other devices can do that.

Ted, KN1CBR


--

Message: 20
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 07:43:49 -0700
From: Phil Wheeler 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3s - KAT3A is a Great ATU!
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

Of course not!  Not when we have small, convenient 
dummy loads :-)

Phil W7OX

On 8/10/16 4:17 AM, MaverickNH wrote:
> Antennas? We don't need no stinking antennas!  ;-)


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Re: [Elecraft] Heath kit and the Lazarus Loop

[w7aqk]

Lew and All,

Heath wasn't the only casualty of the tech explosion.  There were dead 
bodies all over the place!  Even Microsoft might have cratered if IBM hadn't 
failed to recognize the importance of DOS!


It's really amazing what we have seen in just 25 years or so.  I paid a 
small fortune in late '89 for a Zenith laptop, and since then, I haven't 
spent more than a fraction of that for a laptop.  We've gone from big 
floppies to no floppies--from hard drives that only held  a few MB's, to 
ones now that hold many TB's.  RAM was only a few KB's, and now it is many 
GB's, and that's just what we use at home on our desks.


It reminds me of the thought provoking comment I read some time back--it 
says something like--"You receive a birthday card--one that plays the song 
Happy Birthday" to you.  You listen to it, admire the card a while, and then 
soon casually toss it into the waste basket, thereby throwing away more 
computing power than existed in the world in 1948!!!


Dave W7AQK



From: Lewis Phelps 
To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Heath kit and the Lazarus Loop
Message-ID: <40076fad-3207-43b0-821c-61766d7bc...@n6lew.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Heathkit was at the forefront of the personal computer revolution.  Their 
H-8 was one of the earliest 8-bit computers, and the H-89 one of the first 
Z-80 machines, as well as being the first ?all in one? computer that 
combined the keyboard, monitor, and processor into a single enclosure.  I 
used an H-89 as a word processor for a number of years, upgrading it with 
aftermarket products (which were plentiful) to the first-ever silicon drive, 
in lieu of a 5 inch floppy. It didn?t have ?permanent? memory, so you had to 
copy files a a floppy before shutting down, but it sure accelerated the word 
processing speed.  The Z-80 (an enhanced 8080 chip made by Zilog) addressed 
64K of memory, and the operating system (CP/M) used about 39K, which didn?t 
leave much space for the word processing app and the document file.  There 
was a lot of swapping of chunks of instruction in and out of memory.


They didn?t keep up with the advances in technology forever, but I think 
that was due more to a lack of capital than a lack of focus. Their 16-bit 
machines never caught on in the face of the IBM PC onslaught.


Lew N6LEW 


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Re: [Elecraft] K3s - KAT3A is a Great ATU!

[Bill Mader]

I apologize in advance:

 

It is a full wave on some (undisclosed) frequency.

 

Again, sorry, but I couldn't help myself.

 

73, Bill, K8TE

 

Message: 15

Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 07:54:29 -0500

From: Ronnie Hull  >

To: Wes Stewart  >

Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net  

Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3s - KAT3A is a Great ATU!

Message-ID:  >

Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii

 

I don't!!! And in love my loop! It's quiet and I bust pileups with Dailey!
It's great!

If I had to guess it has somewhere between 250-300 feet of wire. Or not

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

> On Aug 10, 2016, at 7:39 AM, Wes Stewart  > wrote:

> 

> How do you know it's a full wave?

> 

>> On 8/10/2016 4:36 AM, w5...@comcast.net 
wrote:

>> ...full wave loop... which has an unknown amount of wire...

> 

 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and inverter generators

[Bill Frantz]

We had a generator for our special event station in Ely, NV 
which made so much noise we couldn't hear any signals. Sorry I 
don't know the brand or model, but not all generators are 
suitable for ham use.


Our solution was to go QRT while we recharged our batteries.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 8/10/16 at 9:59 AM, j...@audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown) wrote:


On Wed,8/10/2016 7:46 AM, Ramon Tristani wrote:

I am thinking of buying the Predator Inverter Generator that Harbor Freight 
sells. Does anybody out

there has had any experience with it while using it to power a radio?

Everything I've seen at Harbor Freight is off-shore made junk, 
and the driving force is CHEAP. I would expect any they sell 
with electronics to be a noisy pig.

---
Bill Frantz|"After all, if the conventional wisdom was 
working, the
408-356-8506   | rate of systems being compromised would be 
going down,

www.pwpconsult.com | wouldn't it?" -- Marcus Ranum

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and inverter generators

[dave]

I can't comment on that specific generator. I do have some experience 
with inverter generators. In one case, a Honda 1 kW used at FD, there 
was no detectable noise from the inverter. But a friend has a 3.5 kW 
Honda that he uses when RV'ing and it is terribly noisy.


The ARRL ran some tests on generators, June 2012 issue. They show 
graphs for RFI produced by the generators tested. All look fairly noisy.


Based on their tests and my experience I would suggest that you expect 
quite a bit of RFI from any inverter generator. Not all make RFI but 
it appears that most do.


If it produces adequate power for your needs you might want to look at 
the little 2 cycle conventional generator at HF sells. I have one of 
those and it is absolutely RF quiet. Have used it for 2 FD's with no 
issues. It makes higher ambient noise, but no RFI at all.


Another option would be some filtering on the AC line from the genni. 
The ARRL review includes some comments on those as well. But even 
after filtering the emissions were >20 dBuV. Seems to me this level 
would still be heard.


73 de dave
ab9ca/4



On 8/10/16 9:46 AM, Ramon Tristani wrote:

I want to take my K3 out for portable use and also training for
emergencies with my local ham friends here. I am thinking of buying
the Predator Inverter Generator that Harbor Freight sells. Does
anybody out there has had any experience with it while using it to
power a radio? Comments appreciated.

Ramon, NQ9V


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and inverter generators

[Don Wilhelm]

Ramon,

If you have some mechanical skills, you can build your own 13.8 volt 
generator.
A gasoline engine driving an automotive alternator which in turn feeds a 
battery.  Put it all on a small wagon and you don't need the power 
supply.  It will not be as compact as a portable generator, but would 
not be a producer of RF hash from the inverter.  You may find you need a 
few capacitors to kill any alternator whine.  This is essentially the 
same as an automotive battery charging system.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/10/2016 10:46 AM, Ramon Tristani wrote:

I want to take my K3 out for portable use and also training for emergencies 
with my local ham friends here. I am thinking of buying the Predator Inverter 
Generator that Harbor Freight sells. Does anybody out there has had any 
experience with it while using it to power a radio? Comments appreciated.

Ramon, NQ9V


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and inverter generators

[Ramon Tristani]

Jim:

That is a great article on suppressing noise. I really appreciate it.

Ramon


> On Aug 10, 2016, at 13:04, Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
> On Wed,8/10/2016 9:50 AM, Barry LaZar wrote:
>> Your K3 doesn't care. 
> 
> The issue is not compatibility with the radio. Electronic devices, especially 
> those handling power, produce RF noise that is radiated both by internal 
> wiring and by external wiring (like the power cable that we plug into them). 
> That RF trash is picked up by our antennas, just like any other RF energy. 
> Even the very good Honda EU200oi generator produces moderately strong RF 
> noise, and requires a good common mode choke on the power cable that plugs 
> into it. These issues are addressed in the link below, which is the slides 
> for a talk I gave on noise in portable setups to the Northern California 
> Contest Club several years ago.
> 
> http://nccc.cc/pdf/CQP-RFI2013-2.pdf
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and inverter generators

[Mel Farrer via Elecraft]

 Or a FARAD cap   

Mel, K6KBE


  From: Bob N3MNT 
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
 Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 10:01 AM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 and inverter generators
   
I recommend adding a 12V Battery to the system to provide a buffer.  This
will be of more important if running 100W CW. 




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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and inverter generators

[Greg Troxel]

Ramon Tristani  writes:

> I want to take my K3 out for portable use and also training for
> emergencies with my local ham friends here. I am thinking of buying
> the Predator Inverter Generator that Harbor Freight sells. Does
> anybody out there has had any experience with it while using it to
> power a radio? Comments appreciated.

When I saw the subject, I was going to say that at Field Day this year,
I observed a K3/P3 with external monitor and computer, running off a
Honda EU2000 powering the monitor/computer and I think an Astron RS35,
plus a west mountain radio PG40S with a 35 Ah AGM battery in a box.
This worked very well; not only did the generator run well for the
entire FD period but the battery/PG40S let the K3/P3 operate over 1
unplanned and a half-dozen planned shutdowns for refueling.

I am skeptical of generators from Harbor Freight, but that is perhaps
unwarranted.  My club used 3 different EU2000s (for 2 K3 stations and a
non-Elecraft station :-(), and had a good experience with them this year
as in past years.  They do cost $900 to $1000 though -- but if I had a
K3, even a barebones one, I would really try hard to get a quality
generator for it rather than risking iffy power.

The Honda EU2000 is a real motor with separate oil, rather than running
on 2-cycle mix, but I see the one you pointed to is also.  The Honda is
also pretty quiet as these things go and clearly very nicely built.  I
am 99% sure the Honda is also legal in California, which the Harbor
Freight one seems not to be.

QST had a review article several years ago about these sorts of
generators.

73 de n1dam
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and inverter generators

[Don Wilhelm]

Ramon,

While it should do the job for producing AC for your power supply, I 
wonder about the "Inverter" part of it.  That tells me that the native 
generator produces DC and is then run through an inverter to give AC output.
Some inverters do produce RF noise, so I would want to try it out first 
to see just how much RF Hash it produces on the ham bands of interest.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/10/2016 10:46 AM, Ramon Tristani wrote:

I want to take my K3 out for portable use and also training for emergencies 
with my local ham friends here. I am thinking of buying the Predator Inverter 
Generator that Harbor Freight sells. Does anybody out there has had any 
experience with it while using it to power a radio? Comments appreciated.



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and inverter generators

[Jim Brown]

On Wed,8/10/2016 9:50 AM, Barry LaZar wrote:
Your K3 doesn't care. 


The issue is not compatibility with the radio. Electronic devices, 
especially those handling power, produce RF noise that is radiated both 
by internal wiring and by external wiring (like the power cable that we 
plug into them). That RF trash is picked up by our antennas, just like 
any other RF energy. Even the very good Honda EU200oi generator produces 
moderately strong RF noise, and requires a good common mode choke on the 
power cable that plugs into it. These issues are addressed in the link 
below, which is the slides for a talk I gave on noise in portable setups 
to the Northern California Contest Club several years ago.


http://nccc.cc/pdf/CQP-RFI2013-2.pdf

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and inverter generators

[Bob N3MNT]

I recommend adding a 12V Battery to the system to provide a buffer.  This
will be of more important if running 100W CW. 




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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and inverter generators

[Jim Brown]

On Wed,8/10/2016 7:46 AM, Ramon Tristani wrote:

I am thinking of buying the Predator Inverter Generator that Harbor Freight 
sells. Does anybody out there has had any experience with it while using it to 
power a radio?


Everything I've seen at Harbor Freight is off-shore made junk, and the 
driving force is CHEAP. I would expect any they sell with electronics to 
be a noisy pig.


73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and inverter generators

[Barry LaZar]

Ramon,
Your K3 doesn't care. It runs off the 12 volt power supply that will 
plug into the generator. There shouldn't be a problem, though. We used a 
Honda 1K during field day which is of the type and had no problems. I 
really expect that you should be OK. However, if you are concerned, just 
run the K3 off a 12 volt battery.


73,
Barry
K3NDM

-- Original Message --
From: "Ramon Tristani" 
To: "Elecraft Mailing List" 
Sent: 8/10/2016 10:46:55 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 and inverter generators

I want to take my K3 out for portable use and also training for 
emergencies with my local ham friends here. I am thinking of buying the 
Predator Inverter Generator that Harbor Freight sells. Does anybody out 
there has had any experience with it while using it to power a radio? 
Comments appreciated.


Ramon, NQ9V


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Re: [Elecraft] Using K3 w/AS original Bandmaster band decoder

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

On 8/10/2016 10:39 AM, Bill Frantz wrote:

I believe the band lines from the K3 (and K3S) are compatible with
the Kenwood encoding.


*YAESU* encoding - Kenwood does not provide "band data" outputs.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV



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Re: [Elecraft] Leaded or non-leaded solder

[Don Wilhelm]

Raymond,

The Elecraft boards comply with ROHS.

You can use leaded solder.  The solder used on the Elecraft boards is 
non-leaded, but leaded solder will mix with it just fine.  I have used 
it many times.
The problem with hand soldering with non-lead solder is that it does not 
flow well, so I stay away from it for my work.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/10/2016 10:12 AM, Raymond METZGER wrote:

Hello Elecrafters,

I have decided to install KPAIO3MDKT on the K3S, I'm just starting to build,
which means soldering one electrolytic capacitor on two existing pads on the
KPAI03 module board.
I don't know it the Elecraft modules - or all PCB devices in the USA - use
leaded or non-leaded solder. Anyway, can I use my leaded solder to do this
job  ?

My soldering iron and my leaded solder haven't been used significantly since
I finished my K2-100 and my KAT100 in 2007, so that my solder has been
bought before no-leaded solder became the norm (at least) in Europe.
Thank you for your help




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[Elecraft] K3 and inverter generators

[Ramon Tristani]

I want to take my K3 out for portable use and also training for emergencies 
with my local ham friends here. I am thinking of buying the Predator Inverter 
Generator that Harbor Freight sells. Does anybody out there has had any 
experience with it while using it to power a radio? Comments appreciated.

Ramon, NQ9V


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Re: [Elecraft] K3s - KAT3A is a Great ATU!

[Phil Wheeler]

Of course not!  Not when we have small, convenient 
dummy loads :-)


Phil W7OX

On 8/10/16 4:17 AM, MaverickNH wrote:

Antennas? We don't need no stinking antennas!  ;-)


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Re: [Elecraft] Using K3 w/AS original Bandmaster band decoder

[Bill Frantz]

I'm away from my K3 information, but I believe the band lines 
from the K3 (and K3S) are compatible with the Kenwood encoding. 
The one gotcha is that the encoding for 60 meters is the same as 
when the radio is powered off.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 8/10/16 at 7:19 PM, a...@hotmail.com (AB2E Darrell) wrote:

I just purchased a used Bandmaster (Array Solutions) band 
decoder. The manual does not have any settings listed for Elecraft.



Could someone using a K3/original Bandmaster combo please email 
me offlist and let me know which settings you used?


There is a one line mention of using a K2 with the Kenwood setting but no 
details.


---
Bill Frantz|The nice thing about standards| Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  |is there are so many to choose| 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |from.   - Andrew Tanenbaum| Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] KFL3A-6K-IR Filter

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

Band width was 6k Hz, offset 0. When I turn the band width knob I
only get a spread of 5k. Any suggestion would help.


This is normal.  The "BW" display shows the audio bandwidth not the
IF bandwidth.  Audio bandwidth is defined as FC + WIDTH/2

In the case of [double sideband] AM, the IF bandwidth is twice that
of the audio bandwidth.  Thus a "6 KHz" filter provides roughly 3 KHz
of audio bandwidth at -6dB (the filter is nominally 6.125 KHz wide
between the -6 dB points - about 7.5 KHz at -30 dB and 9.35 KHz at
-60 dB) and rolls off rather quickly above 4.2 KHz due to the audio
lowpass filter that follows the digital to analog converter.

If you change Shift/Width to High/Low you will notice the maximum
setting for "HIGH" is 4.2 KHz - a design limit in the DSP due to the
clock frequency of the digital to analog converter.

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV


On 8/8/2016 3:35 PM, Grady Harper via Elecraft wrote:

I have just installed a new 6K AM filter in my K3s.  I configured the
filter by computer, and checked using CONFIG .  Band width was 6k Hz,
offset 0.  When I turn the band width knob I only get a spread of 5k.
Any suggestion would help.

The filter was put in slot 1.

Sent from my iPad
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[Elecraft] Leaded or non-leaded solder

[Raymond METZGER]

Hello Elecrafters,

I have decided to install KPAIO3MDKT on the K3S, I'm just starting to build,
which means soldering one electrolytic capacitor on two existing pads on the
KPAI03 module board.
I don't know it the Elecraft modules - or all PCB devices in the USA - use
leaded or non-leaded solder. Anyway, can I use my leaded solder to do this
job  ?

My soldering iron and my leaded solder haven't been used significantly since
I finished my K2-100 and my KAT100 in 2007, so that my solder has been
bought before no-leaded solder became the norm (at least) in Europe.
Thank you for your help

Raymond METZGER
F4FNT,
K2-100, K-Line, K3S underway


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[Elecraft] K3S audible squeal

[ae0mm via Elecraft]

My K3S (100w PA, no subRX, no ATU) has an audible sound (from inside the 
chassis) that is reminiscent of a flyback transformer squeal. The sound 
diminishes or completely goes away when using GNUradio’s rigctld + software 
panadapter. Is it possible the KIO3B stops making noise during high polling 
rates? I’m not certain what causes the noise, and it may not even be coming 
from the IO board. I’ve heard this squeal regardless of PSU type. (switching 
and linear PSUs)

If I change CONFIG:RS232 from USB to 38400 b the squeal becomes louder. 
Disconnecting the USB cable has no impact.

Any ideas what to do to isolate the audible noise and eliminate the squeal?
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Re: [Elecraft] K3s - KAT3A is a Great ATU!

[Ronnie Hull]

I don't!!! And in love my loop! It's quiet and I bust pileups with Dailey! It's 
great!
If I had to guess it has somewhere between 250-300 feet of wire. Or not

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 10, 2016, at 7:39 AM, Wes Stewart  wrote:
> 
> How do you know it's a full wave?
> 
>> On 8/10/2016 4:36 AM, w5...@comcast.net wrote:
>> ...full wave loop... which has an unknown amount of wire...
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3s - KAT3A is a Great ATU!

[Wes Stewart]

How do you know it's a full wave?

On 8/10/2016 4:36 AM, w5...@comcast.net wrote:

 ...full wave loop... which has an unknown amount of wire...


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Re: [Elecraft] K2 KAT100-2 bypass

[Don Wilhelm]

George,

Set the ATU menu to CAL - the KAT100 will be effectively bypassed.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/9/2016 11:38 PM, George Rebong wrote:

I would like to use an external antenna tuner. How can I set the K2 KAT100-2 
antenna tuner on bypass?
George KE6TE



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[Elecraft] Fwd: [Elecraft_K3] Fwd: Ham Radio: Field Day Follow Up and Wayne N6KR from Elecraft

[mikerodgerske5gbc--- via Elecraft]

Find me on "Zello", a walkie talkie or handi talkie type app. I'm listed as 
KE5GBC. I'm mostly on late at night. 

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "mikerodgerske5...@yahoo.com [Elecraft_K3]" 
> 
> Date: August 10, 2016, 6:51:05 AM CDT
> To: elecraft...@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Elecraft_K3] Fwd: Ham Radio: Field Day Follow Up and Wayne N6KR 
> from Elecraft
> Reply-To: elecraft...@yahoogroups.com
> 
> 30 minutes of Wayne talking about the kx2 at field day. The show is 60 min 
> and Wayne gets the second half.  Audio only. It's possible you heard this 
> already as it field day so several episodes old. Also I believe there was a 
> link already to you k3 guys when it first aired. 
> 
> 73
> Mike R
> Mobile Mike
> 
> Find me on "Zello", a walkie talkie or handi talkie type app. I'm listed as 
> KE5GBC. I'm mostly on late at night. 
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
>> From: mikerodgerske5...@yahoo.com
>> Date: August 10, 2016, 1:48:37 AM CDT
>> To: mike Rodgers 
>> Subject: Ham Radio: Field Day Follow Up and Wayne N6KR from Elecraft
>> 
>> Check out the 'Ham Radio 360' podcast. 
>> 
>> I was listening to the episode 'Ham Radio: Field Day Follow Up and Wayne 
>> N6KR from Elecraft' and thought you might enjoy it
>> Direct link to the file here
>> 
>> If you have iCatcher! for your iOS device you can use this link iCatcher 
>> Import Link
>> 
>> Web: Ham Radio 360
>> 
>> Feed: Podcast
>> 
>> App Store: iCatcher!
>> 
>> 
>> Find me on "Zello", a walkie talkie or handi talkie type app. I'm listed as 
>> KE5GBC. I'm mostly on late at night. 
> 
> __._,_.___
> Posted by: mikerodgerske5...@yahoo.com
> Reply via web post•Reply to sender•Reply 
> to group •   Start a New Topic   •   Messages in 
> this topic (1)
> 
> Have you tried the highest rated email app?
> With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app 
> on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3s - KAT3A is a Great ATU!

[w5sum]

LOL.. rock on brother! I'm a believer it just throwing a chunk of wire in a 
tree and making contacts.. I don't need no stinking EZ- antenna programs LOL


btw.. 300 confirmed on my full wave loop... which has an unknown amount of 
wire, fed with a unknown length of 300 ohm twinlead, and unknown resonant 
point


Ronnie W5SUM
-Original Message- 
From: MaverickNH

Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 6:17 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] K3s - KAT3A is a Great ATU!

A few days ago, when assembling my 43ft Vertical antenna, I ran a RG213 from
rig to outside and a longer RG213 from antenna to outside my house. I later
powered up the K3S/KAT3A to test that new 43ft Vertical, wondering if there
must be a problem, as reception was quite a bit lower than my G5RV. Strong
signals were relatively clear and audible, but way down on the S meter.

I then realized I was using the KAT3A ATU to tune the 50ft of coax alone, as
I had forgotten to join the coax at the lightning arrester on the ground rod
outside my house.

Next, I'm going to try a KX2 w/KXAT2 ATU on a folding aluminum lawn chair.
Antennas? We don't need no stinking antennas!  ;-)



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View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3s-KAT3A-is-a-Great-ATU-tp7621449.html

Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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[Elecraft] K3s - KAT3A is a Great ATU!

[MaverickNH]

A few days ago, when assembling my 43ft Vertical antenna, I ran a RG213 from
rig to outside and a longer RG213 from antenna to outside my house. I later
powered up the K3S/KAT3A to test that new 43ft Vertical, wondering if there
must be a problem, as reception was quite a bit lower than my G5RV. Strong
signals were relatively clear and audible, but way down on the S meter.

I then realized I was using the KAT3A ATU to tune the 50ft of coax alone, as
I had forgotten to join the coax at the lightning arrester on the ground rod
outside my house.

Next, I'm going to try a KX2 w/KXAT2 ATU on a folding aluminum lawn chair.
Antennas? We don't need no stinking antennas!  ;-)



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View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3s-KAT3A-is-a-Great-ATU-tp7621449.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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