Re: [Elecraft] K3S Audio buzz on transmit, especially AM
Hi Nick, Since there are many unknowns and concerns about the EMI and magnetic environment at your home QTH, it might be revealing to repeat your basic tests (battery and dummy load) at a friend's QTH. Maybe you also have a friend who owns a K3 or K3S. Forget about resetting your transceiver. Your varied descriptions point to EMI or one (or more) strong magnetic fields as the source of your difficulties. How far is the "big green transformer" from your ham shack? Have you ever attempted to perform this type of troubleshooting in the past? Y our emails leave the impression that your approach isn't very methodical. A friend with troubleshooting experience could be of great help in getting you organized for a successful result. 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - From: "Nicklas Johnson" To: "elecraft" Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2019 1:53:27 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S Audio buzz on transmit, especially AM Sorry for the additional email, but this is particularly interesting: it occurred to me that I'd never tried the reverse setup, so I put the KX3 in transmit mode and 0.1W on AM in another room, and set the K3S on receive. And sure enough, the K3S immediately started picking up S40 of buzzing noise. However if I tune the K3S to an AM broadcast station or WWV, no buzz. So either both the K3S and KX3 are being affected on transmit in the same way (which seems implausible but not impossible), or possibly something else is going on at my QTH. On the P3, I definitely see the noise when the KX3 is transmitting from the other room. Now I wish I had a scope so I could see what the AM carrier generated by the KX3 and K3S looks like so I could tell if this is something that's happening inside the transmitter, or something that is happening because of some outside influence mixing powerline noise with the AM carrier. The important thing to me is that the carrier I'm putting out there is clean... if there's some local mixing that happens that means I can't listen to my own transmission without a buzz, I can live with that. One kind of curious thing is that there's also a superimposed "squeaky wheel" sound at random intervals detectable when the KX3 is transmitting an AM carrier, and not otherwise, and also not when listening to WWV or AM broadcast, which vaguely seems to correlate with how windy it is at any given moment. Could all of this be a "rusty bolt" effect from something in the vicinity? Nick On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 at 18:11, Nicklas Johnson wrote: > A few more data points: > > Changing TX EQ, including cutting the first 4 bands all the way down to > -16 had no effect on the received signal. > > Plugging in some headphones, turning the TX Monitor up all the way, I > don't detect the hum in the TX monitor signal either in TX test mode, > transmitting into a dummy load, or even transmitting into the antenna with > very low power. If I turn up the Line In level, I just hear expected white > noise on the TX monitor. So at least as far along the path as the TX > monitor, there's no hum or buzz introduced. > > Switching the receiver (a KX3) to USB mode and using one leg of a > buddistick as an antenna so I can walk around, the noise received around > the house and outside is around S4 when transmitting about 100mW into the > antenna, though it varies some as I walk around. > > I do have a set of power lines running through my back yard, and where I > live in San Mateo, you're always near somebody's wiring for something, > unfortunately... my neighbor's south wall is possibly as far as 8 feet away > from my north wall, etc. > > It looks like two phases running along the top, then a transformer to two > phases and a neutral along the bottom, to which people's houses are > connected. > > We also have underground utilities on our street, including a big green > transformer that sits in the corner of our front lawn. > > I think the next test will be to take the K3S and the KX3 some distance > away from all of these things and see if the hum goes away, and if it does, > then figure out what thing the K3S needs to get away from in particular. > If it's the powerlines in my back yard or the transformer in my front yard, > then that'll be a difficult problem. > > Nick > > > > On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 at 17:28, Bob McGraw K4TAX > wrote: > >> Yes but the EQ is in the digital path. The EQ should be done there, >> preferably after the MIC input. The AM BW does not attenuate the end like >> the SSB filter. >> >> I suggest -16 dB on the first 3 bands. >> >> Bob, K4TAX >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> > On Apr 26, 2019, at 6:38 PM, Nicklas Johnson wrote: >> > >> > Flat, except I turned the first one down a few notches, which doesn't >> > really do much in my case because both the microphone and mixer that I >> use >> > (when they're actually connected) roll off below 150 and 80 Hz >> > respectively. It
Re: [Elecraft] K3S Audio buzz on transmit, especially AM
On 4/26/2019 7:48 PM, Frank Krozel wrote: Try switching to a linear supply? No, ALL power supplies with cap input filter have harmonics. But the problem is FAR, FAR larger than equipment in the shack. Nick -- what kind of mic do you use with your rig? Is it an electret or a dynamic? Another way of asking -- do you have turn on bias to make it work? Does the buzz get worse with the mic plugged in? Does turning up the mic gain make it louder? 73, Jim __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3S Audio buzz on transmit, especially AM
On 4/26/2019 6:11 PM, Nicklas Johnson wrote: Plugging in some headphones, turning the TX Monitor up all the way, I don't detect the hum in the TX monitor signal either in TX test mode, transmitting into a dummy load, or even transmitting into the antenna with very low power. If I turn up the Line In level, I just hear expected white noise on the TX monitor. So at least as far along the path as the TX monitor, there's no hum or buzz introduced. I'm confused, Nick. Under what conditions DO you hear the buzz? Antenna connected to the K3S? Switching the receiver (a KX3) to USB mode and using one leg of a buddistick as an antenna so I can walk around, the noise received around the house and outside is around S4 when transmitting about 100mW into the antenna, though it varies some as I walk around. I'm more confused. When you have been listening to your signal and hearing the buzz, HOW were you listening to it? Were you listening on the KX3? If you transmit 5-10W into a dummy load you should be able to hear your signal in a KX3 sitting next to it with NO antenna. Does the buzz only happen when you're listening on the KX3 and there's an antenna connected to the K3S? That brings up the possibility of passive intermod. We'll talk about that after we've gotten the symptoms straight. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K2] Rig Control Error
I wish to thank all the folks here who offered helpful comments on the problem. Yes, I did all the checking of ports and drivers and connections - I've been dealing with those sort of things for years so I've been there, but with no resolution this time. Neil did relate his solution to the problem and I will respectfully continue with him off-line as to the details. Again, thanks for the assist.-- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 >From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Of words and such
My favorite from the southern US is "fixing": as in 'I'm fixing to leave'= getting ready to go. One of the premier wordsmiths, Winston Churchill is spinning in his grave. Good yucks, 73 Tom HP1XT __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3S Audio buzz on transmit, especially AM
Try switching to a linear supply? Sincerely, Frank Krozel t: 1-630-924-1600 fr...@electronicinstrument.com BSEE, AASEET, FCC Lic.# PG-18-19178, KG9H Electronic Instrument Associates - Central, Inc. ...since 1971 w: www.electronicinstrument.com d/l our linecard at http://www.electronicinstrument.com/lc.pdf > On Apr 26, 2019, at 9:46 PM, Nicklas Johnson wrote: > > Before I forget, thank you to everyone who has responded thusfar with ideas > and suggestions. This one is a real head-scratcher, and I appreciate > everyone bouncing ideas around with me. > > If the problem is in fact originating with power line neutral distortion, > what, if anything could I actually do about it, beyond what I've already > done in running on battery power? I can't really move my 'shack' in this > case. > > I did find the "squeaky wheel" at least. It was the end of one of the > aluminum straps of an antenna mast chimney mount brushing against a copper > ground wire in the wind. A pair of tin snips solved that problem. This > bit was kind of fascinating-- if I held a copper wire against the aluminum > strap, and position the antenna of the KX3 nearby, I could receive some > broadcast AM station on the 51.123 MHz carrier I was transmitting from > inside the house (it's pretty close to a multiple of 810kHz, so if I had to > guess, it was likely KGO I was getting). > > I also found the noise gets a hell of a lot louder near the back gutter of > the house (which runs parallel to the power lines that run through the back > yard), though this could just be because the antenna of my KX3 was coupling > to it. > > Yet to be determined is whether the noise is a local thing only affecting > reception (e.g., some kind of passive intermod), or if in fact it becomes > part of the signal I'm sending up to the ionosphere. To really figure that > one out, I probably will need to make an actual distant AM contact and ask > someone to tell me how it sounds... this may be no small feat with the way > the sun is behaving lately, but I'll keep trying. > > Nick > >> On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 at 19:18, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: >> >> I think Jim's concern, expressed earlier, about power line neutral >> distortion components is valid. And it may be originating in "the big green >> transformer" in the yard. >> >> Bob, K4TAX >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Apr 26, 2019, at 8:53 PM, Nicklas Johnson wrote: >>> >>> Sorry for the additional email, but this is particularly interesting: it >>> occurred to me that I'd never tried the reverse setup, so I put the KX3 >> in >>> transmit mode and 0.1W on AM in another room, and set the K3S on receive. >>> And sure enough, the K3S immediately started picking up S40 of buzzing >>> noise. However if I tune the K3S to an AM broadcast station or WWV, no >>> buzz. So either both the K3S and KX3 are being affected on transmit in >> the >>> same way (which seems implausible but not impossible), or possibly >>> something else is going on at my QTH. >>> >>> On the P3, I definitely see the noise when the KX3 is transmitting from >> the >>> other room. >>> >>> Now I wish I had a scope so I could see what the AM carrier generated by >>> the KX3 and K3S looks like so I could tell if this is something that's >>> happening inside the transmitter, or something that is happening because >> of >>> some outside influence mixing powerline noise with the AM carrier. The >>> important thing to me is that the carrier I'm putting out there is >> clean... >>> if there's some local mixing that happens that means I can't listen to my >>> own transmission without a buzz, I can live with that. >>> >>> One kind of curious thing is that there's also a superimposed "squeaky >>> wheel" sound at random intervals detectable when the KX3 is transmitting >> an >>> AM carrier, and not otherwise, and also not when listening to WWV or AM >>> broadcast, which vaguely seems to correlate with how windy it is at any >>> given moment. Could all of this be a "rusty bolt" effect from something >> in >>> the vicinity? >>> >>> Nick >>> >>> >>> On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 at 18:11, Nicklas Johnson wrote: A few more data points: Changing TX EQ, including cutting the first 4 bands all the way down to -16 had no effect on the received signal. Plugging in some headphones, turning the TX Monitor up all the way, I don't detect the hum in the TX monitor signal either in TX test mode, transmitting into a dummy load, or even transmitting into the antenna >> with very low power. If I turn up the Line In level, I just hear expected >> white noise on the TX monitor. So at least as far along the path as the TX monitor, there's no hum or buzz introduced. Switching the receiver (a KX3) to USB mode and using one leg of a buddistick as an antenna so I can walk around, the noise received around the house and outside is around S4 when transmitting about
Re: [Elecraft] K3S Audio buzz on transmit, especially AM
Before I forget, thank you to everyone who has responded thusfar with ideas and suggestions. This one is a real head-scratcher, and I appreciate everyone bouncing ideas around with me. If the problem is in fact originating with power line neutral distortion, what, if anything could I actually do about it, beyond what I've already done in running on battery power? I can't really move my 'shack' in this case. I did find the "squeaky wheel" at least. It was the end of one of the aluminum straps of an antenna mast chimney mount brushing against a copper ground wire in the wind. A pair of tin snips solved that problem. This bit was kind of fascinating-- if I held a copper wire against the aluminum strap, and position the antenna of the KX3 nearby, I could receive some broadcast AM station on the 51.123 MHz carrier I was transmitting from inside the house (it's pretty close to a multiple of 810kHz, so if I had to guess, it was likely KGO I was getting). I also found the noise gets a hell of a lot louder near the back gutter of the house (which runs parallel to the power lines that run through the back yard), though this could just be because the antenna of my KX3 was coupling to it. Yet to be determined is whether the noise is a local thing only affecting reception (e.g., some kind of passive intermod), or if in fact it becomes part of the signal I'm sending up to the ionosphere. To really figure that one out, I probably will need to make an actual distant AM contact and ask someone to tell me how it sounds... this may be no small feat with the way the sun is behaving lately, but I'll keep trying. Nick On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 at 19:18, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: > I think Jim's concern, expressed earlier, about power line neutral > distortion components is valid. And it may be originating in "the big green > transformer" in the yard. > > Bob, K4TAX > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Apr 26, 2019, at 8:53 PM, Nicklas Johnson wrote: > > > > Sorry for the additional email, but this is particularly interesting: it > > occurred to me that I'd never tried the reverse setup, so I put the KX3 > in > > transmit mode and 0.1W on AM in another room, and set the K3S on receive. > > And sure enough, the K3S immediately started picking up S40 of buzzing > > noise. However if I tune the K3S to an AM broadcast station or WWV, no > > buzz. So either both the K3S and KX3 are being affected on transmit in > the > > same way (which seems implausible but not impossible), or possibly > > something else is going on at my QTH. > > > > On the P3, I definitely see the noise when the KX3 is transmitting from > the > > other room. > > > > Now I wish I had a scope so I could see what the AM carrier generated by > > the KX3 and K3S looks like so I could tell if this is something that's > > happening inside the transmitter, or something that is happening because > of > > some outside influence mixing powerline noise with the AM carrier. The > > important thing to me is that the carrier I'm putting out there is > clean... > > if there's some local mixing that happens that means I can't listen to my > > own transmission without a buzz, I can live with that. > > > > One kind of curious thing is that there's also a superimposed "squeaky > > wheel" sound at random intervals detectable when the KX3 is transmitting > an > > AM carrier, and not otherwise, and also not when listening to WWV or AM > > broadcast, which vaguely seems to correlate with how windy it is at any > > given moment. Could all of this be a "rusty bolt" effect from something > in > > the vicinity? > > > > Nick > > > > > > > >> On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 at 18:11, Nicklas Johnson wrote: > >> > >> A few more data points: > >> > >> Changing TX EQ, including cutting the first 4 bands all the way down to > >> -16 had no effect on the received signal. > >> > >> Plugging in some headphones, turning the TX Monitor up all the way, I > >> don't detect the hum in the TX monitor signal either in TX test mode, > >> transmitting into a dummy load, or even transmitting into the antenna > with > >> very low power. If I turn up the Line In level, I just hear expected > white > >> noise on the TX monitor. So at least as far along the path as the TX > >> monitor, there's no hum or buzz introduced. > >> > >> Switching the receiver (a KX3) to USB mode and using one leg of a > >> buddistick as an antenna so I can walk around, the noise received around > >> the house and outside is around S4 when transmitting about 100mW into > the > >> antenna, though it varies some as I walk around. > >> > >> I do have a set of power lines running through my back yard, and where I > >> live in San Mateo, you're always near somebody's wiring for something, > >> unfortunately... my neighbor's south wall is possibly as far as 8 feet > away > >> from my north wall, etc. > >> > >> It looks like two phases running along the top, then a transformer to > two > >> phases and a neutral along the bottom, to which
Re: [Elecraft] K3S Audio buzz on transmit, especially AM
EQ should have nothing to do with solving the problem. EQ just masks it. Sent from my iPad > On Apr 26, 2019, at 6:56 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: > > I recall commenting earlier. What TX EQ values are being used for AM. ? > > Bob, K4TAX > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Apr 26, 2019, at 5:48 PM, Nicklas Johnson wrote: >> >> My desk in this case sits adjacent a wall, and there's only a shower on the >> other side of that wall. I did turn off everything in the vicinity of the >> desk and all the lights in the room (I've in fact heard a very similar hum >> from the switching power supply for my mixer, and my first thought was it >> was this that was being picked up), but I didn't turn off the computer on >> the other side of the room. In this case it will be easier to move the rig >> outdoors with a battery than it will be to turn that computer off for the >> moment. It would have to be an impressively/obnoxiously strong magnetic >> field from that side of the room to influence the transformers inside the >> rig 8 feet away, but it's worth trying and simple enough to rule it out. >> >> Nick >> >>> On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 at 14:51, Don Wilhelm wrote: >>> >>> In addition to operating from a battery isolated from the solar system, >>> I would recommend that you do a quick test - remove all cables from the >>> K3S except the power cable and a coax to a dummy load. Power down all >>> power supplies in your station, including any desk lamps. >>> Go into Transmit by tapping the XMIT button. >>> Is the hum still present? If not, then start connecting things to your >>> K3S one at a time, doing the same test after each thing connected. >>> >>> Of course, if the hum is present with nothing connected, contact >>> supp...@elecraft.com - but I cannot imagine a hum with harmonics of 60 >>> Hz being induced if you take away all the 60 Hz operated sources in the >>> area. >>> >>> 73, >>> Don W3FPR >>> >>> -- >> *N6OL* >> Saying something doesn't make it true. Belief in something doesn't make it >> real. And if you have to lie to support a position, that position is not >> worth supporting. >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3S Audio buzz on transmit, especially AM
Sounds like some internal RF feedback. Sent from my iPad > On Apr 26, 2019, at 11:43 AM, Nicklas Johnson wrote: > > This morning just for yuks, I also temporarily disconnected the ground from > the rig entirely while also connecting only to a dummy load, so there could > be no path to ground at all, let alone multiple paths. No change. > > I guess the next things I'll probably try are a full factory reset, and > then perhaps popping it open to make sure nothing has come unseated. But > first I'll drop a line to Elecraft support too. I've seen a number of > people post about similar problems that either magically resolved > themselves or ended up being a fault on the audio board. > > Nick > > >> On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 at 23:27, Nicklas Johnson wrote: >> >> Again, the problem persists with all inputs completely disconnected and >> the mic gain set at 0. And running solely on a battery into a dummy load. >> >> Nick >> >> On Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 10:10 PM Jim Brown >> wrote: >> On 4/25/2019 8:15 PM, Nicklas Johnson wrote: Physically touching the case or grabbing the barrel of the front panel >>> mic connector actually does cause the buzz to get just a little softer. >>> >>> I suspect either a bonding problem or a problem with the wiring of the >>> mic. >>> I generally use solar/battery power, though my ground is bonded to my utility ground. >>> >>> I suggest that you carefully study either N0AX's recent ARRL book on >>> grounding and bonding, or the slides for talks I've given at Visalia and >>> Pacifion. >>> >>> 73, Jim K9YC >>> >>> __ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> >> > > -- > *N6OL* > Saying something doesn't make it true. Belief in something doesn't make it > real. And if you have to lie to support a position, that position is not > worth supporting. > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3S Audio buzz on transmit, especially AM
I think Jim's concern, expressed earlier, about power line neutral distortion components is valid. And it may be originating in "the big green transformer" in the yard. Bob, K4TAX Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 26, 2019, at 8:53 PM, Nicklas Johnson wrote: > > Sorry for the additional email, but this is particularly interesting: it > occurred to me that I'd never tried the reverse setup, so I put the KX3 in > transmit mode and 0.1W on AM in another room, and set the K3S on receive. > And sure enough, the K3S immediately started picking up S40 of buzzing > noise. However if I tune the K3S to an AM broadcast station or WWV, no > buzz. So either both the K3S and KX3 are being affected on transmit in the > same way (which seems implausible but not impossible), or possibly > something else is going on at my QTH. > > On the P3, I definitely see the noise when the KX3 is transmitting from the > other room. > > Now I wish I had a scope so I could see what the AM carrier generated by > the KX3 and K3S looks like so I could tell if this is something that's > happening inside the transmitter, or something that is happening because of > some outside influence mixing powerline noise with the AM carrier. The > important thing to me is that the carrier I'm putting out there is clean... > if there's some local mixing that happens that means I can't listen to my > own transmission without a buzz, I can live with that. > > One kind of curious thing is that there's also a superimposed "squeaky > wheel" sound at random intervals detectable when the KX3 is transmitting an > AM carrier, and not otherwise, and also not when listening to WWV or AM > broadcast, which vaguely seems to correlate with how windy it is at any > given moment. Could all of this be a "rusty bolt" effect from something in > the vicinity? > > Nick > > > >> On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 at 18:11, Nicklas Johnson wrote: >> >> A few more data points: >> >> Changing TX EQ, including cutting the first 4 bands all the way down to >> -16 had no effect on the received signal. >> >> Plugging in some headphones, turning the TX Monitor up all the way, I >> don't detect the hum in the TX monitor signal either in TX test mode, >> transmitting into a dummy load, or even transmitting into the antenna with >> very low power. If I turn up the Line In level, I just hear expected white >> noise on the TX monitor. So at least as far along the path as the TX >> monitor, there's no hum or buzz introduced. >> >> Switching the receiver (a KX3) to USB mode and using one leg of a >> buddistick as an antenna so I can walk around, the noise received around >> the house and outside is around S4 when transmitting about 100mW into the >> antenna, though it varies some as I walk around. >> >> I do have a set of power lines running through my back yard, and where I >> live in San Mateo, you're always near somebody's wiring for something, >> unfortunately... my neighbor's south wall is possibly as far as 8 feet away >> from my north wall, etc. >> >> It looks like two phases running along the top, then a transformer to two >> phases and a neutral along the bottom, to which people's houses are >> connected. >> >> We also have underground utilities on our street, including a big green >> transformer that sits in the corner of our front lawn. >> >> I think the next test will be to take the K3S and the KX3 some distance >> away from all of these things and see if the hum goes away, and if it does, >> then figure out what thing the K3S needs to get away from in particular. >> If it's the powerlines in my back yard or the transformer in my front yard, >> then that'll be a difficult problem. >> >> Nick >> >> >> >> On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 at 17:28, Bob McGraw K4TAX >> wrote: >> >>> Yes but the EQ is in the digital path. The EQ should be done there, >>> preferably after the MIC input. The AM BW does not attenuate the end like >>> the SSB filter. >>> >>> I suggest -16 dB on the first 3 bands. >>> >>> Bob, K4TAX >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> On Apr 26, 2019, at 6:38 PM, Nicklas Johnson wrote: Flat, except I turned the first one down a few notches, which doesn't really do much in my case because both the microphone and mixer that I >>> use (when they're actually connected) roll off below 150 and 80 Hz respectively. It had previously been suggested to me that rolling off >>> low frequency cruft is a good idea for AM and SSB. Nick > On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 at 15:57, Bob McGraw K4TAX >>> wrote: > > I recall commenting earlier. What TX EQ values are being used for AM. >>> ? > > Bob, K4TAX > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Apr 26, 2019, at 5:48 PM, Nicklas Johnson wrote: >> >> My desk in this case sits adjacent a wall, and there's only a shower >>> on > the >> other side of that wall. I did turn off everything in the vicinity of > the >> desk and
Re: [Elecraft] K3S Audio buzz on transmit, especially AM
Sorry for the additional email, but this is particularly interesting: it occurred to me that I'd never tried the reverse setup, so I put the KX3 in transmit mode and 0.1W on AM in another room, and set the K3S on receive. And sure enough, the K3S immediately started picking up S40 of buzzing noise. However if I tune the K3S to an AM broadcast station or WWV, no buzz. So either both the K3S and KX3 are being affected on transmit in the same way (which seems implausible but not impossible), or possibly something else is going on at my QTH. On the P3, I definitely see the noise when the KX3 is transmitting from the other room. Now I wish I had a scope so I could see what the AM carrier generated by the KX3 and K3S looks like so I could tell if this is something that's happening inside the transmitter, or something that is happening because of some outside influence mixing powerline noise with the AM carrier. The important thing to me is that the carrier I'm putting out there is clean... if there's some local mixing that happens that means I can't listen to my own transmission without a buzz, I can live with that. One kind of curious thing is that there's also a superimposed "squeaky wheel" sound at random intervals detectable when the KX3 is transmitting an AM carrier, and not otherwise, and also not when listening to WWV or AM broadcast, which vaguely seems to correlate with how windy it is at any given moment. Could all of this be a "rusty bolt" effect from something in the vicinity? Nick On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 at 18:11, Nicklas Johnson wrote: > A few more data points: > > Changing TX EQ, including cutting the first 4 bands all the way down to > -16 had no effect on the received signal. > > Plugging in some headphones, turning the TX Monitor up all the way, I > don't detect the hum in the TX monitor signal either in TX test mode, > transmitting into a dummy load, or even transmitting into the antenna with > very low power. If I turn up the Line In level, I just hear expected white > noise on the TX monitor. So at least as far along the path as the TX > monitor, there's no hum or buzz introduced. > > Switching the receiver (a KX3) to USB mode and using one leg of a > buddistick as an antenna so I can walk around, the noise received around > the house and outside is around S4 when transmitting about 100mW into the > antenna, though it varies some as I walk around. > > I do have a set of power lines running through my back yard, and where I > live in San Mateo, you're always near somebody's wiring for something, > unfortunately... my neighbor's south wall is possibly as far as 8 feet away > from my north wall, etc. > > It looks like two phases running along the top, then a transformer to two > phases and a neutral along the bottom, to which people's houses are > connected. > > We also have underground utilities on our street, including a big green > transformer that sits in the corner of our front lawn. > > I think the next test will be to take the K3S and the KX3 some distance > away from all of these things and see if the hum goes away, and if it does, > then figure out what thing the K3S needs to get away from in particular. > If it's the powerlines in my back yard or the transformer in my front yard, > then that'll be a difficult problem. > >Nick > > > > On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 at 17:28, Bob McGraw K4TAX > wrote: > >> Yes but the EQ is in the digital path. The EQ should be done there, >> preferably after the MIC input. The AM BW does not attenuate the end like >> the SSB filter. >> >> I suggest -16 dB on the first 3 bands. >> >> Bob, K4TAX >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> > On Apr 26, 2019, at 6:38 PM, Nicklas Johnson wrote: >> > >> > Flat, except I turned the first one down a few notches, which doesn't >> > really do much in my case because both the microphone and mixer that I >> use >> > (when they're actually connected) roll off below 150 and 80 Hz >> > respectively. It had previously been suggested to me that rolling off >> low >> > frequency cruft is a good idea for AM and SSB. >> > >> > Nick >> > >> >> On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 at 15:57, Bob McGraw K4TAX >> wrote: >> >> >> >> I recall commenting earlier. What TX EQ values are being used for AM. >> ? >> >> >> >> Bob, K4TAX >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> >>> On Apr 26, 2019, at 5:48 PM, Nicklas Johnson wrote: >> >>> >> >>> My desk in this case sits adjacent a wall, and there's only a shower >> on >> >> the >> >>> other side of that wall. I did turn off everything in the vicinity of >> >> the >> >>> desk and all the lights in the room (I've in fact heard a very similar >> >> hum >> >>> from the switching power supply for my mixer, and my first thought >> was it >> >>> was this that was being picked up), but I didn't turn off the >> computer on >> >>> the other side of the room. In this case it will be easier to move >> the >> >> rig >> >>> outdoors with a battery than it will be to turn that computer off for >>
Re: [Elecraft] K3S Audio buzz on transmit, especially AM
A few more data points: Changing TX EQ, including cutting the first 4 bands all the way down to -16 had no effect on the received signal. Plugging in some headphones, turning the TX Monitor up all the way, I don't detect the hum in the TX monitor signal either in TX test mode, transmitting into a dummy load, or even transmitting into the antenna with very low power. If I turn up the Line In level, I just hear expected white noise on the TX monitor. So at least as far along the path as the TX monitor, there's no hum or buzz introduced. Switching the receiver (a KX3) to USB mode and using one leg of a buddistick as an antenna so I can walk around, the noise received around the house and outside is around S4 when transmitting about 100mW into the antenna, though it varies some as I walk around. I do have a set of power lines running through my back yard, and where I live in San Mateo, you're always near somebody's wiring for something, unfortunately... my neighbor's south wall is possibly as far as 8 feet away from my north wall, etc. It looks like two phases running along the top, then a transformer to two phases and a neutral along the bottom, to which people's houses are connected. We also have underground utilities on our street, including a big green transformer that sits in the corner of our front lawn. I think the next test will be to take the K3S and the KX3 some distance away from all of these things and see if the hum goes away, and if it does, then figure out what thing the K3S needs to get away from in particular. If it's the powerlines in my back yard or the transformer in my front yard, then that'll be a difficult problem. Nick On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 at 17:28, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: > Yes but the EQ is in the digital path. The EQ should be done there, > preferably after the MIC input. The AM BW does not attenuate the end like > the SSB filter. > > I suggest -16 dB on the first 3 bands. > > Bob, K4TAX > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Apr 26, 2019, at 6:38 PM, Nicklas Johnson wrote: > > > > Flat, except I turned the first one down a few notches, which doesn't > > really do much in my case because both the microphone and mixer that I > use > > (when they're actually connected) roll off below 150 and 80 Hz > > respectively. It had previously been suggested to me that rolling off > low > > frequency cruft is a good idea for AM and SSB. > > > > Nick > > > >> On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 at 15:57, Bob McGraw K4TAX > wrote: > >> > >> I recall commenting earlier. What TX EQ values are being used for AM. ? > >> > >> Bob, K4TAX > >> > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >>> On Apr 26, 2019, at 5:48 PM, Nicklas Johnson wrote: > >>> > >>> My desk in this case sits adjacent a wall, and there's only a shower on > >> the > >>> other side of that wall. I did turn off everything in the vicinity of > >> the > >>> desk and all the lights in the room (I've in fact heard a very similar > >> hum > >>> from the switching power supply for my mixer, and my first thought was > it > >>> was this that was being picked up), but I didn't turn off the computer > on > >>> the other side of the room. In this case it will be easier to move the > >> rig > >>> outdoors with a battery than it will be to turn that computer off for > the > >>> moment. It would have to be an impressively/obnoxiously strong > magnetic > >>> field from that side of the room to influence the transformers inside > the > >>> rig 8 feet away, but it's worth trying and simple enough to rule it > out. > >>> > >>> Nick > >>> > On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 at 14:51, Don Wilhelm > >> wrote: > > In addition to operating from a battery isolated from the solar > system, > I would recommend that you do a quick test - remove all cables from > the > K3S except the power cable and a coax to a dummy load. Power down all > power supplies in your station, including any desk lamps. > Go into Transmit by tapping the XMIT button. > Is the hum still present? If not, then start connecting things to > your > K3S one at a time, doing the same test after each thing connected. > > Of course, if the hum is present with nothing connected, contact > supp...@elecraft.com - but I cannot imagine a hum with harmonics of > 60 > Hz being induced if you take away all the 60 Hz operated sources in > the > area. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > -- > >>> *N6OL* > >>> Saying something doesn't make it true. Belief in something doesn't > make > >> it > >>> real. And if you have to lie to support a position, that position is > not > >>> worth supporting. > >>> __ > >>> Elecraft mailing list > >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > >>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > >>> > >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > >>> Please help support this email list:
Re: [Elecraft] K3S Audio buzz on transmit, especially AM
On 4/26/2019 5:28 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: I suggest -16 dB on the first 3 bands. My standard recommendation for ham radio is to start with max cut of 50, 100, and 200 Hz bands, 6 dB of cut of the 400 Hz band, and get signal reports. Do this in TXEQ. What sounds "right" will depend on your voice and your mic, so take this as a starting point. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3S Audio buzz on transmit, especially AM
A pro audio colleague, Neil Muncy, now deceased, specialized in chasing down hum and buzz in home studios. One mechanism he ran into several times was "triplen" harmonic current on the incoming neutral or ground, and I worked with him on one of them. These harmonic currents are the result of distortion of the current waveform on power lines,which in turn is caused by current in anything with a capacitor input power supply drawing most of the current at positive and negative peaks of the AC cycle. Most power lines outside our home are some form of 3-phase, and in these systems, any harmonic divisible by 3 ADDS in the neutral rather than cancelling. The most prominent components are 180 Hz, 360 Hz, 540 Hz, 720 Hz, and so on, and they are heard as "buzz" rather than hum. Few of us have 3-phase power in our homes, but a power distribution system called "high leg Delta" or "wild leg" is VERY widely used in neighborhoods where the customers are a mix residential and light industrial. This system is a Delta, but with one leg of the Delta center-tapped. The 3-phase customers are fed from the Delta, and single-phase customers from the center-tapped transformer. Single phase customers get phase-phase-neutral. The 3-phase customers get no neutral, but they generate lots of triplen harmonics that go to ground via the neutral bond in single-phase homes. My home in the Santa Cruz Mountains, is fed single-phase power (120-0-120) by high-leg Delta. Depending on lots of factors, that triplen current can get pretty large, and the magnetic field can couple into any magnetic loop, into any unshielded transformer, and into magnetic guitar pickups! That's where Neil came in. How strong the pickup is depends on the routing of the neutral and ground wire carrying that triplen current. Another colleague working on the design of audio for a major TV studio in NYC found very high triplen currents in a vertical riser in the high rise building housing the studio, right next to the main mix console. MAJOR problem -- it got into almost all the gear and low level mic wiring in the room! As to the accuracy of your FFT frequencies -- FFT's are computed in "bins" with their width dependent on the FFT parameters for any given measurement/display width. If bins are fairly wide, the frequencies you're reading could easily be triplen harmonics. 73, Jim K9YC On 4/26/2019 3:38 PM, Nicklas Johnson wrote: they're more or less 120Hz apart, but they start at a weird place-- 350 isn't a multiple of 60 or 120, but that particular spur and the 470 and 830 Hz spurs are all pretty exact, though of course it's not impossible that there's some FFT error in determining those frequencies and they're actually 360, 480, and 840. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3S Audio buzz on transmit, especially AM
Yes but the EQ is in the digital path. The EQ should be done there, preferably after the MIC input. The AM BW does not attenuate the end like the SSB filter. I suggest -16 dB on the first 3 bands. Bob, K4TAX Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 26, 2019, at 6:38 PM, Nicklas Johnson wrote: > > Flat, except I turned the first one down a few notches, which doesn't > really do much in my case because both the microphone and mixer that I use > (when they're actually connected) roll off below 150 and 80 Hz > respectively. It had previously been suggested to me that rolling off low > frequency cruft is a good idea for AM and SSB. > > Nick > >> On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 at 15:57, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: >> >> I recall commenting earlier. What TX EQ values are being used for AM. ? >> >> Bob, K4TAX >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Apr 26, 2019, at 5:48 PM, Nicklas Johnson wrote: >>> >>> My desk in this case sits adjacent a wall, and there's only a shower on >> the >>> other side of that wall. I did turn off everything in the vicinity of >> the >>> desk and all the lights in the room (I've in fact heard a very similar >> hum >>> from the switching power supply for my mixer, and my first thought was it >>> was this that was being picked up), but I didn't turn off the computer on >>> the other side of the room. In this case it will be easier to move the >> rig >>> outdoors with a battery than it will be to turn that computer off for the >>> moment. It would have to be an impressively/obnoxiously strong magnetic >>> field from that side of the room to influence the transformers inside the >>> rig 8 feet away, but it's worth trying and simple enough to rule it out. >>> >>> Nick >>> On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 at 14:51, Don Wilhelm >> wrote: In addition to operating from a battery isolated from the solar system, I would recommend that you do a quick test - remove all cables from the K3S except the power cable and a coax to a dummy load. Power down all power supplies in your station, including any desk lamps. Go into Transmit by tapping the XMIT button. Is the hum still present? If not, then start connecting things to your K3S one at a time, doing the same test after each thing connected. Of course, if the hum is present with nothing connected, contact supp...@elecraft.com - but I cannot imagine a hum with harmonics of 60 Hz being induced if you take away all the 60 Hz operated sources in the area. 73, Don W3FPR -- >>> *N6OL* >>> Saying something doesn't make it true. Belief in something doesn't make >> it >>> real. And if you have to lie to support a position, that position is not >>> worth supporting. >>> __ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> >> >> > > -- > *N6OL* > Saying something doesn't make it true. Belief in something doesn't make it > real. And if you have to lie to support a position, that position is not > worth supporting. > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3S Audio buzz on transmit, especially AM
Flat, except I turned the first one down a few notches, which doesn't really do much in my case because both the microphone and mixer that I use (when they're actually connected) roll off below 150 and 80 Hz respectively. It had previously been suggested to me that rolling off low frequency cruft is a good idea for AM and SSB. Nick On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 at 15:57, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: > I recall commenting earlier. What TX EQ values are being used for AM. ? > > Bob, K4TAX > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Apr 26, 2019, at 5:48 PM, Nicklas Johnson wrote: > > > > My desk in this case sits adjacent a wall, and there's only a shower on > the > > other side of that wall. I did turn off everything in the vicinity of > the > > desk and all the lights in the room (I've in fact heard a very similar > hum > > from the switching power supply for my mixer, and my first thought was it > > was this that was being picked up), but I didn't turn off the computer on > > the other side of the room. In this case it will be easier to move the > rig > > outdoors with a battery than it will be to turn that computer off for the > > moment. It would have to be an impressively/obnoxiously strong magnetic > > field from that side of the room to influence the transformers inside the > > rig 8 feet away, but it's worth trying and simple enough to rule it out. > > > > Nick > > > >> On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 at 14:51, Don Wilhelm > wrote: > >> > >> In addition to operating from a battery isolated from the solar system, > >> I would recommend that you do a quick test - remove all cables from the > >> K3S except the power cable and a coax to a dummy load. Power down all > >> power supplies in your station, including any desk lamps. > >> Go into Transmit by tapping the XMIT button. > >> Is the hum still present? If not, then start connecting things to your > >> K3S one at a time, doing the same test after each thing connected. > >> > >> Of course, if the hum is present with nothing connected, contact > >> supp...@elecraft.com - but I cannot imagine a hum with harmonics of 60 > >> Hz being induced if you take away all the 60 Hz operated sources in the > >> area. > >> > >> 73, > >> Don W3FPR > >> > >> -- > > *N6OL* > > Saying something doesn't make it true. Belief in something doesn't make > it > > real. And if you have to lie to support a position, that position is not > > worth supporting. > > __ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > > -- *N6OL* Saying something doesn't make it true. Belief in something doesn't make it real. And if you have to lie to support a position, that position is not worth supporting. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3S Audio buzz on transmit, especially AM
I recall commenting earlier. What TX EQ values are being used for AM. ? Bob, K4TAX Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 26, 2019, at 5:48 PM, Nicklas Johnson wrote: > > My desk in this case sits adjacent a wall, and there's only a shower on the > other side of that wall. I did turn off everything in the vicinity of the > desk and all the lights in the room (I've in fact heard a very similar hum > from the switching power supply for my mixer, and my first thought was it > was this that was being picked up), but I didn't turn off the computer on > the other side of the room. In this case it will be easier to move the rig > outdoors with a battery than it will be to turn that computer off for the > moment. It would have to be an impressively/obnoxiously strong magnetic > field from that side of the room to influence the transformers inside the > rig 8 feet away, but it's worth trying and simple enough to rule it out. > > Nick > >> On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 at 14:51, Don Wilhelm wrote: >> >> In addition to operating from a battery isolated from the solar system, >> I would recommend that you do a quick test - remove all cables from the >> K3S except the power cable and a coax to a dummy load. Power down all >> power supplies in your station, including any desk lamps. >> Go into Transmit by tapping the XMIT button. >> Is the hum still present? If not, then start connecting things to your >> K3S one at a time, doing the same test after each thing connected. >> >> Of course, if the hum is present with nothing connected, contact >> supp...@elecraft.com - but I cannot imagine a hum with harmonics of 60 >> Hz being induced if you take away all the 60 Hz operated sources in the >> area. >> >> 73, >> Don W3FPR >> >> -- > *N6OL* > Saying something doesn't make it true. Belief in something doesn't make it > real. And if you have to lie to support a position, that position is not > worth supporting. > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3S Audio buzz on transmit, especially AM
My desk in this case sits adjacent a wall, and there's only a shower on the other side of that wall. I did turn off everything in the vicinity of the desk and all the lights in the room (I've in fact heard a very similar hum from the switching power supply for my mixer, and my first thought was it was this that was being picked up), but I didn't turn off the computer on the other side of the room. In this case it will be easier to move the rig outdoors with a battery than it will be to turn that computer off for the moment. It would have to be an impressively/obnoxiously strong magnetic field from that side of the room to influence the transformers inside the rig 8 feet away, but it's worth trying and simple enough to rule it out. Nick On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 at 14:51, Don Wilhelm wrote: > In addition to operating from a battery isolated from the solar system, > I would recommend that you do a quick test - remove all cables from the > K3S except the power cable and a coax to a dummy load. Power down all > power supplies in your station, including any desk lamps. > Go into Transmit by tapping the XMIT button. > Is the hum still present? If not, then start connecting things to your > K3S one at a time, doing the same test after each thing connected. > > Of course, if the hum is present with nothing connected, contact > supp...@elecraft.com - but I cannot imagine a hum with harmonics of 60 > Hz being induced if you take away all the 60 Hz operated sources in the > area. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > -- *N6OL* Saying something doesn't make it true. Belief in something doesn't make it real. And if you have to lie to support a position, that position is not worth supporting. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KAT & KPA 500 Remote by Elecraft
Use the command line options in a batch file. The options are COM Baud Port timeout. Something like: start KAT500-Remote.exe COM13 38400 4629 2000 start KPA500-Remote.exe COM11 38400 4627 2000 Insert your appropriate values. Ken K6MR From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net on behalf of Mike - W5JR Sent: Friday, April 26, 2019 1:42:05 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] KAT & KPA 500 Remote by Elecraft I’ve poked around looking for a solution, but nothing surfaced. I have the two programs loading on startup, but also need them to go directly into hosting mode. Today, I have to remotely access the shack computer to manually engage “Start Hosting Remote”. Is there a way others have found? tnx Mike / W5JR Alpharetta GA __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3S Audio buzz on transmit, especially AM
I did in fact wonder the same thing myself-- whether the solar controller could be injecting some noise or just making some noise, so when I did the battery test, I disconnected the battery from the controller and ran directly from the battery to the rig. I couldn't tell you a dB level of the buzz without having some more accurate equipment to measure it, but it's very noticeable relative to my voice when testing. It was enough to make me think I had either RF feedback or a ground loop giving me grief. There could be something to be learned from the predominant frequencies present in the buzz... they're more or less 120Hz apart, but they start at a weird place-- 350 isn't a multiple of 60 or 120, but that particular spur and the 470 and 830 Hz spurs are all pretty exact, though of course it's not impossible that there's some FFT error in determining those frequencies and they're actually 360, 480, and 840. Curious, though, is that running on a battery, there's nothing to inject a 60Hz or 120Hz noise directly, especially not once I disconnected the rig ground from the ground rod outside. Which makes me wonder if the buzz is just something in the house that's mixing with the carrier and re-radiating. For my next trick, this weekend I think I'll take everything outside on a picnic table, away from house wiring, etc., and see if that changes anything, or I might start with just the receiver outdoors and away from house wiring, and then move on to both if needed. Nick On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 at 14:37, K8TE wrote: > The word that struck my attention is "solar" and the possibility of that > controller causing noise. When you were connected to just the battery and > dummy load, was the battery disconnected from the solar system? And, at > what level was the buzz relative to a full power carrier? > > Every transmitter has some noise on its signal. Specifications and FCC > rules in some cases call for a specific ratio. I can't imagine a factory > reset solving a problem like this. Be certain you have saved your > configuration first. Solving issues like this is not magic, but sometimes > a > mystery. > > 73, Bill, K8TE > -- *N6OL* Saying something doesn't make it true. Belief in something doesn't make it real. And if you have to lie to support a position, that position is not worth supporting. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3S Audio buzz on transmit, especially AM
That makes sense too. The transformers are unshielded, so are sitting ducks for strong nearby magnetic fields. K6XX ran into this early on running RTTY from a big amp PSU very close to a K3. The coupling was so strong that it went into regeneration! 73, Jim K9YC On 4/26/2019 3:16 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote: I had this same problem years ago before purchasing my first K3. It turned out to magnetic field coupling between my HyGain T2X control box and an audio transformer in the transceiver. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3S Audio buzz on transmit, especially AM
I had this same problem years ago before purchasing my first K3. It turned out to magnetic field coupling between my HyGain T2X control box and an audio transformer in the transceiver. As Don suggested, be sure all power supplies including computers, UPSs and lamps are turned off during the test. If this doesn't work, take to K3S to a friends QTH and repeat the test 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - From: "Don Wilhelm" To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Friday, April 26, 2019 9:51:15 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S Audio buzz on transmit, especially AM In addition to operating from a battery isolated from the solar system, I would recommend that you do a quick test - remove all cables from the K3S except the power cable and a coax to a dummy load. Power down all power supplies in your station, including any desk lamps. Go into Transmit by tapping the XMIT button. Is the hum still present? If not, then start connecting things to your K3S one at a time, doing the same test after each thing connected. Of course, if the hum is present with nothing connected, contact supp...@elecraft.com - but I cannot imagine a hum with harmonics of 60 Hz being induced if you take away all the 60 Hz operated sources in the area. 73, Don W3FPR On 4/26/2019 5:36 PM, K8TE wrote: > The word that struck my attention is "solar" and the possibility of that > controller causing noise. When you were connected to just the battery and > dummy load, was the battery disconnected from the solar system? And, at > what level was the buzz relative to a full power carrier? > > Every transmitter has some noise on its signal. Specifications and FCC > rules in some cases call for a specific ratio. I can't imagine a factory > reset solving a problem like this. Be certain you have saved your > configuration first. Solving issues like this is not magic, but sometimes a > mystery. > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - DVR installation question
I rarely use my DVR as I don't contest. When I have a mic or audio xmit issue, it is super handy. Just sayin'. 72 & 73, Bill K9YEQ FT’er for K2, KX1, KX3, KXPA100, KAT500, W2, etc. -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net On Behalf Of Bill Sent: Friday, April 26, 2019 9:15 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - DVR installation question Grant: thanks for the link to the install manual. WOW! I don't see that in my future - too many places for errors. My K3 is not broken and I don't want to break it. Thanks again. Of course, I could always sent the K3 out and have all the updates made and the DVR installed. But, all I operate on is 75 meters these days and really see no need for the updates. Again, the K3 is working wonderful. Bill W2BLC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Of words and such
It especially depends on what part of the world you're in... Years ago Mmy wife Phyllis and I spent a weekend visiting Al G3FXB and his XYL Maud. I'll never forget Phyllis' astonishment when, after a long night of enjoyable conversation and when she was ready for bed, Al asked: When would you like me to knock you up tomorrow? 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - From: "Don Wilhelm" To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Friday, April 26, 2019 9:25:44 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Of words and such It likely depends on which area of the US you are in. I don't know about the current vernacular, but where I grew up in Central Eastern Ohio in the 1950s and 1960s, cigarettes were known as "fags", and a 'fag break' would be a perfectly acceptable expression. I once heard a broadcast from KDKA in Pittsburg, PA where several language expressions that were unique to that area were cited. The one that sticks in my mind is "chuckle" referring to a pothole in the road. A lot depends on the context. I remember my Grandmother referring to "Go dowm celler to do the wershing" on Mondays. Even within the USA, there is a wide variety of local expressions like that. When I first moved to NC, I did a 2nd take the first time I heard someone say they had to "carry their Mother to the doctor"! 73, Don W3FPR On 4/26/2019 4:53 PM, Andy McMullin via Elecraft wrote: > You are so right. So many people seem to guess what words or phrases mean > without bothering to determine what the rest of society agrees that they > mean. Then they expect you to understand their personal interpretation. > > However, I’d add that it’s also useful to remember George Bernard Shaw and > his “two countries divided by a common language”. Try suggesting a “fag > break” to workers in the USA (as I did one coffee time in the 1970’s). > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3S Audio buzz on transmit, especially AM
I think you may have hit on it, Bill. Say it's a pulse-regulated controller on the battery is on the soft side. BTW -- most solar charge controllers put out a lot of RF noise. The only good pulsing controllers I've found are the MPPT controllers made by Genasun. https://sunforgellc.com/genasun/#gen_product_row Another question to help diagnose the problem if it's the battery -- what's the DC voltage at the battery in RX mode? In TX mode? What does the K3 internal voltmeter read for RX and TX? 73, Jim K9YC 73, On 4/26/2019 2:36 PM, K8TE wrote: The word that struck my attention is "solar" and the possibility of that controller causing noise. When you were connected to just the battery and dummy load, was the battery disconnected from the solar system? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3S Audio buzz on transmit, especially AM
In addition to operating from a battery isolated from the solar system, I would recommend that you do a quick test - remove all cables from the K3S except the power cable and a coax to a dummy load. Power down all power supplies in your station, including any desk lamps. Go into Transmit by tapping the XMIT button. Is the hum still present? If not, then start connecting things to your K3S one at a time, doing the same test after each thing connected. Of course, if the hum is present with nothing connected, contact supp...@elecraft.com - but I cannot imagine a hum with harmonics of 60 Hz being induced if you take away all the 60 Hz operated sources in the area. 73, Don W3FPR On 4/26/2019 5:36 PM, K8TE wrote: The word that struck my attention is "solar" and the possibility of that controller causing noise. When you were connected to just the battery and dummy load, was the battery disconnected from the solar system? And, at what level was the buzz relative to a full power carrier? Every transmitter has some noise on its signal. Specifications and FCC rules in some cases call for a specific ratio. I can't imagine a factory reset solving a problem like this. Be certain you have saved your configuration first. Solving issues like this is not magic, but sometimes a mystery. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3S Audio buzz on transmit, especially AM
The word that struck my attention is "solar" and the possibility of that controller causing noise. When you were connected to just the battery and dummy load, was the battery disconnected from the solar system? And, at what level was the buzz relative to a full power carrier? Every transmitter has some noise on its signal. Specifications and FCC rules in some cases call for a specific ratio. I can't imagine a factory reset solving a problem like this. Be certain you have saved your configuration first. Solving issues like this is not magic, but sometimes a mystery. 73, Bill, K8TE -- Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPAK3AUX cable length
Art, I use two in series to my KPA1500 without issues. Before that they were used in series with the KPA500/KAT500. Also, with no issues. 73, Mark, WB9CIF -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net On Behalf Of Art Suberbielle Sent: Friday, April 26, 2019 20:20 To: Elecraft list Subject: [Elecraft] KPAK3AUX cable length Hi all, Does Elecraft sell a longer version of the standard cable? I need about 3 more feet. As an alternative, can 2 of these cables be used in series to provide the extra length without creating any timing issues for the KPA1500? Thanks & 73, Art KZ5D __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Of words and such
It likely depends on which area of the US you are in. I don't know about the current vernacular, but where I grew up in Central Eastern Ohio in the 1950s and 1960s, cigarettes were known as "fags", and a 'fag break' would be a perfectly acceptable expression. I once heard a broadcast from KDKA in Pittsburg, PA where several language expressions that were unique to that area were cited. The one that sticks in my mind is "chuckle" referring to a pothole in the road. A lot depends on the context. I remember my Grandmother referring to "Go dowm celler to do the wershing" on Mondays. Even within the USA, there is a wide variety of local expressions like that. When I first moved to NC, I did a 2nd take the first time I heard someone say they had to "carry their Mother to the doctor"! 73, Don W3FPR On 4/26/2019 4:53 PM, Andy McMullin via Elecraft wrote: You are so right. So many people seem to guess what words or phrases mean without bothering to determine what the rest of society agrees that they mean. Then they expect you to understand their personal interpretation. However, I’d add that it’s also useful to remember George Bernard Shaw and his “two countries divided by a common language”. Try suggesting a “fag break” to workers in the USA (as I did one coffee time in the 1970’s). __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Of Words and Such - Even though Beyond the OT Pale
It's from an earlier meaning of the word pale, which meant a specific region or area within a defined boundary. Hence the denotation of beyond the pale is "outside the boundary." Another current use of the word's earlier meaning is the phrase "The Pale of Settlement," which meant and to historians still means a bounded region in Russia into which Russian Jews were herded and allowed to live, more or less, during the generation before the first World War. I agree with Wayne that today the connotation is usually negative; and I also understood the user to mean it literally and so not negatively at all. Ted, KN1CBR _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ Message: 13 Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2019 10:29:49 -0700 From: Wayne Burdick To: Frank Krozel Cc: Elecraft Reflector , Andy Durbin Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Of words and such Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "Beyond the pale" is an infrequently used idiomatic expression (at least in the U.S.), probably misunderstood by many. I believe it is used in a negative sense for the most part, but clearly that isn't what the writer meant. Some English words have become completely useless in practice, like "semiannual" and "biannual," either of which can mean "twice a year" or "every other year." In fact if you look up the definition for one, you often see the other shown as a synonym. Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Of words and such
You are so right. So many people seem to guess what words or phrases mean without bothering to determine what the rest of society agrees that they mean. Then they expect you to understand their personal interpretation. However, I’d add that it’s also useful to remember George Bernard Shaw and his “two countries divided by a common language”. Try suggesting a “fag break” to workers in the USA (as I did one coffee time in the 1970’s). Sent from my iPhone > On 26 Apr 2019, at 21:46, Kevin Cozens wrote: > >> On 2019-04-26 1:29 p.m., Wayne Burdick wrote: >> Some English words have become completely useless in practice, like >> "semiannual" and "biannual," either of which can mean "twice a year" or >> "every other year." In fact if you look up the definition for one, you >> often see the other shown as a synonym. > > The problem is due to people using words without understanding heir meaning. > There should be no confusion between semiannual and biannual. semi means > half, and bi is two. > > If you want to really find out how messed up is the English language and the > definitions of words, start solving cryptic crossword puzzles. Some words > have three completely different sets of meanings. > > -- > Cheers! > > Kevin. > > http://www.ve3syb.ca/ | "Nerds make the shiny things that > https://www.patreon.com/KevinCozens | distract the mouth-breathers, and >| that's why we're powerful" > Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | > #include | --Chris Hardwick > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KAT & KPA 500 Remote by Elecraft
Not that I have been able to find after 5 or 6 years of using the KPA500 remotely. Mike va3mw On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 4:42 PM Mike - W5JR wrote: > I’ve poked around looking for a solution, but nothing surfaced. > > I have the two programs loading on startup, but also need them to go > directly into hosting mode. Today, I have to remotely access the shack > computer to manually engage “Start Hosting Remote”. > > Is there a way others have found? > > tnx > Mike / W5JR > Alpharetta GA > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Of words and such
On 2019-04-26 1:29 p.m., Wayne Burdick wrote: Some English words have become completely useless in practice, like "semiannual" and "biannual," either of which can mean "twice a year" or "every other year." In fact if you look up the definition for one, you often see the other shown as a synonym. The problem is due to people using words without understanding heir meaning. There should be no confusion between semiannual and biannual. semi means half, and bi is two. If you want to really find out how messed up is the English language and the definitions of words, start solving cryptic crossword puzzles. Some words have three completely different sets of meanings. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ | "Nerds make the shiny things that https://www.patreon.com/KevinCozens | distract the mouth-breathers, and | that's why we're powerful" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | #include | --Chris Hardwick __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] KAT & KPA 500 Remote by Elecraft
I’ve poked around looking for a solution, but nothing surfaced. I have the two programs loading on startup, but also need them to go directly into hosting mode. Today, I have to remotely access the shack computer to manually engage “Start Hosting Remote”. Is there a way others have found? tnx Mike / W5JR Alpharetta GA __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Of words and such
Just one more case of "no good deed goes unpunished!" The "punishment" was the innocent misuse of an infrequently used phrase when the writer clearly intended to praise Eric for far exceeding customer expectations. Not to belabor the point, but "beyond the pale" means exactly the opposite of what the writer intended: "Outside the bounds of morality, acceptable behavior or good judgement" 73 Frank W3LPL > On Apr 26, 2019, at 12:08 PM, Andy Durbin wrote: > > " When an owner of the company calls to assist, that is beyond the pale. " > > I wonder if that is what you really thought. > > https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/beyond-the-pale.html > > Maybe it means something completely different in other lands. > > 73, > Andy, k3wyc > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] KPAK3AUX cable length
Hi all, Does Elecraft sell a longer version of the standard cable? I need about 3 more feet. As an alternative, can 2 of these cables be used in series to provide the extra length without creating any timing issues for the KPA1500? Thanks & 73, Art KZ5D __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Filters for K3
13 KHz filter works very well for AM. It provides +/- 6.5 KHz at IF which is plenty for even the guys with converted broadcast rigs that are generally +/- 5 KHz. The K3/K3S DSP and audio brick wall filters will limit the highest audio frequency to around 4.5 KHz but you can always use the DSP to further reduce the highest audio frequency to 2.8 - 3 KHz if needed to limit QRM. You can further reduce QRM by using the 2.7 or 2.8 KHz filter in synch mode to demodulate either just the upper sideband or lower sideband if one sideband is being clobbered by QRM. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2019-04-26 8:36 AM, Frank Krozel wrote: On weekends here in the Midwest there are many AM nets (as well as the normal 3.880 Nets) that I like to listen to. I am curious as a CW guy, I would like to not take away from my already compliment of filters, 500, 200Hz to put in 6 and 13kHz filters, thinking of adding just the 13kHz filter. I also do 52.525. How would the 13kHz filter work for listening to AM? I assume I can start with that filter and use the variable to neck it down? Most of the signals are above S-9 that I listen to. de KG9H, Frank __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Of words and such
On 4/26/2019 11:01 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote: >> Wayne was right, I meant that Eric had gone way beyond what was >> expected, in a good way. My understanding of the phrase was it >> meant beyond bad things and into the good. Sorry if you saw it >> otherwise. Guess I better watch out for the wordsmiths. > > Or worse, wordsmith wannabees, like me :) > But but but as I pound into the engineers working for me - be very careful with the stuff that you commit to reports and papers - we may be held to exactly that in the case of disputes. Color me nitpicker :)-- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 VP - General Counsel & Engineering Manager CSI Telecommunications, Inc. - Consulting Engineers San Francisco, CA - Beaverton, OR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Of words and such
> On Apr 26, 2019, at 10:43 AM, James Brassell wrote: > > Andy, > > Wayne was right, I meant that Eric had gone way beyond what was expected, in > a good way. My understanding of the phrase was it meant beyond bad things > and into the good. Sorry if you saw it otherwise. Guess I better watch out > for the wordsmiths. Or worse, wordsmith wannabees, like me :) Wayne __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Filters for K3
If you don't want to transmit but only listen, SSB mode works just fine with 2.7 or 2.8 kHz filters. 73, Jim K9YC On 4/26/2019 6:16 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: I find the 6KHz very adequate for AM, both RX and TX. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Of words and such
Andy, Wayne was right, I meant that Eric had gone way beyond what was expected, in a good way. My understanding of the phrase was it meant beyond bad things and into the good. Sorry if you saw it otherwise. Guess I better watch out for the wordsmiths. 73, Jim K4ZMV On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 1:39 PM Andy McMullin via Elecraft < elecraft@mailman.qth.net> wrote: > Beyond the pale - outside the safe area protected by the British in > Ireland. Normally taken to mean immoral, dangerous and probably obscene. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On 26 Apr 2019, at 18:29, Wayne Burdick wrote: > > > > "Beyond the pale" is an infrequently used idiomatic expression (at least > in the U.S.), probably misunderstood by many. I believe it is used in a > negative sense for the most part, but clearly that isn't what the writer > meant. > > > > Some English words have become completely useless in practice, like > "semiannual" and "biannual," either of which can mean "twice a year" or > "every other year." In fact if you look up the definition for one, you > often see the other shown as a synonym. > > > > Wayne > > N6KR > > > > > > > > > >> On Apr 26, 2019, at 10:21 AM, Frank Krozel wrote: > >> > >> I would be floored and would take a blank paper and a good pen. > >> > >> De KG9H > >> > >> > >>> On Apr 26, 2019, at 12:08 PM, Andy Durbin wrote: > >>> > >>> " When an owner of the company calls to assist, that is beyond the > pale. " > >>> > >>> I wonder if that is what you really thought. > >>> > >>> https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/beyond-the-pale.html > >>> > >>> Maybe it means something completely different in other lands. > >>> > >>> 73, > >>> Andy, k3wy > > __ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Of words and such
Beyond the pale - outside the safe area protected by the British in Ireland. Normally taken to mean immoral, dangerous and probably obscene. Sent from my iPhone > On 26 Apr 2019, at 18:29, Wayne Burdick wrote: > > "Beyond the pale" is an infrequently used idiomatic expression (at least in > the U.S.), probably misunderstood by many. I believe it is used in a negative > sense for the most part, but clearly that isn't what the writer meant. > > Some English words have become completely useless in practice, like > "semiannual" and "biannual," either of which can mean "twice a year" or > "every other year." In fact if you look up the definition for one, you often > see the other shown as a synonym. > > Wayne > N6KR > > > > >> On Apr 26, 2019, at 10:21 AM, Frank Krozel wrote: >> >> I would be floored and would take a blank paper and a good pen. >> >> De KG9H >> >> >>> On Apr 26, 2019, at 12:08 PM, Andy Durbin wrote: >>> >>> " When an owner of the company calls to assist, that is beyond the pale. " >>> >>> I wonder if that is what you really thought. >>> >>> https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/beyond-the-pale.html >>> >>> Maybe it means something completely different in other lands. >>> >>> 73, >>> Andy, k3wy > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Of words and such
"Beyond the pale" is an infrequently used idiomatic expression (at least in the U.S.), probably misunderstood by many. I believe it is used in a negative sense for the most part, but clearly that isn't what the writer meant. Some English words have become completely useless in practice, like "semiannual" and "biannual," either of which can mean "twice a year" or "every other year." In fact if you look up the definition for one, you often see the other shown as a synonym. Wayne N6KR > On Apr 26, 2019, at 10:21 AM, Frank Krozel wrote: > > I would be floored and would take a blank paper and a good pen. > > De KG9H > > >> On Apr 26, 2019, at 12:08 PM, Andy Durbin wrote: >> >> " When an owner of the company calls to assist, that is beyond the pale. " >> >> I wonder if that is what you really thought. >> >> https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/beyond-the-pale.html >> >> Maybe it means something completely different in other lands. >> >> 73, >> Andy, k3wy __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Of words and such
I would be floored and would take a blank paper and a good pen. De KG9H > On Apr 26, 2019, at 12:08 PM, Andy Durbin wrote: > > " When an owner of the company calls to assist, that is beyond the pale. " > > I wonder if that is what you really thought. > > https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/beyond-the-pale.html > > Maybe it means something completely different in other lands. > > 73, > Andy, k3wyc > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Of words and such
" When an owner of the company calls to assist, that is beyond the pale. " I wonder if that is what you really thought. https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/beyond-the-pale.html Maybe it means something completely different in other lands. 73, Andy, k3wyc __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3S Audio buzz on transmit, especially AM
I did listen and look at my K3S on my SDR receiver in AM mode. I do find there is a small amount of hum on the carrier. Then switching to LSB, I do not find the hum present. You may want to check the settings of your TX EQ. If you have any low frequency boost, that will contribute to the level of the hum. My operating values are: 50 Hz = -16 dB , 100 Hz = -16 dB , 200 Hz = -16 dB , 400 Hz = -6 dB, everything above that is set to 0 dB or flat. The mike is a Shure SM-58. In AM mode the hum is noted at 120 Hz, 240 Hz, and 360 Hz, all multiples of the 60 Hz line. At the same time, the hum level of the individual frequencies, worst case, is some 40 dB below 100% modulation. Some are 50 dB below 100% modulation with the worst case being 120 Hz. In working several AM stations over the past year or so, I've not had any comments regarding hum on the carrier. These tests were done with MIC level set to 0 and COM level set to 0. Everything else normal and connected to the radio. Different power levels, mike level and comp level made no difference in the amplitude of the hum components. 73 Bob, K4TAX On 4/26/2019 10:43 AM, Nicklas Johnson wrote: This morning just for yuks, I also temporarily disconnected the ground from the rig entirely while also connecting only to a dummy load, so there could be no path to ground at all, let alone multiple paths. No change. I guess the next things I'll probably try are a full factory reset, and then perhaps popping it open to make sure nothing has come unseated. But first I'll drop a line to Elecraft support too. I've seen a number of people post about similar problems that either magically resolved themselves or ended up being a fault on the audio board. Nick On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 at 23:27, Nicklas Johnson wrote: Again, the problem persists with all inputs completely disconnected and the mic gain set at 0. And running solely on a battery into a dummy load. Nick On Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 10:10 PM Jim Brown wrote: On 4/25/2019 8:15 PM, Nicklas Johnson wrote: Physically touching the case or grabbing the barrel of the front panel mic connector actually does cause the buzz to get just a little softer. I suspect either a bonding problem or a problem with the wiring of the mic. I generally use solar/battery power, though my ground is bonded to my utility ground. I suggest that you carefully study either N0AX's recent ARRL book on grounding and bonding, or the slides for talks I've given at Visalia and Pacifion. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3S Audio buzz on transmit, especially AM
This morning just for yuks, I also temporarily disconnected the ground from the rig entirely while also connecting only to a dummy load, so there could be no path to ground at all, let alone multiple paths. No change. I guess the next things I'll probably try are a full factory reset, and then perhaps popping it open to make sure nothing has come unseated. But first I'll drop a line to Elecraft support too. I've seen a number of people post about similar problems that either magically resolved themselves or ended up being a fault on the audio board. Nick On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 at 23:27, Nicklas Johnson wrote: > Again, the problem persists with all inputs completely disconnected and > the mic gain set at 0. And running solely on a battery into a dummy load. > >Nick > > On Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 10:10 PM Jim Brown > wrote: > >> On 4/25/2019 8:15 PM, Nicklas Johnson wrote: >> > Physically touching the case or grabbing the barrel of the front panel >> mic >> > connector actually does cause the buzz to get just a little softer. >> >> I suspect either a bonding problem or a problem with the wiring of the >> mic. >> >> > I generally use solar/battery power, though my ground is bonded to my >> > utility ground. >> >> I suggest that you carefully study either N0AX's recent ARRL book on >> grounding and bonding, or the slides for talks I've given at Visalia and >> Pacifion. >> >> 73, Jim K9YC >> >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> > -- *N6OL* Saying something doesn't make it true. Belief in something doesn't make it real. And if you have to lie to support a position, that position is not worth supporting. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - DVR installation question
Grant: thanks for the link to the install manual. WOW! I don't see that in my future - too many places for errors. My K3 is not broken and I don't want to break it. Thanks again. Of course, I could always sent the K3 out and have all the updates made and the DVR installed. But, all I operate on is 75 meters these days and really see no need for the updates. Again, the K3 is working wonderful. Bill W2BLC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Filters for K3
OK thank you everyone fo your input Sincerely, Frank Krozel t: 1-630-924-1600 fr...@electronicinstrument.com BSEE, AASEET, FCC Lic.# PG-18-19178, KG9H Electronic Instrument Associates - Central, Inc. ...since 1971 w: www.electronicinstrument.com d/l our linecard at http://www.electronicinstrument.com/lc.pdf > On Apr 26, 2019, at 8:16 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: > > I find the 6KHz very adequate for AM, both RX and TX. > > Bob, K4TAX > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Apr 26, 2019, at 7:36 AM, Frank Krozel wrote: >> >> On weekends here in the Midwest there are many AM nets (as well as the >> normal 3.880 Nets) that I like to listen to. >> I am curious as a CW guy, I would like to not take away from my already >> compliment of filters, 500, 200Hz to put in 6 and 13kHz filters, thinking of >> adding just the 13kHz filter. I also do 52.525. >> How would the 13kHz filter work for listening to AM? I assume I can start >> with that filter and use the variable to neck it down? Most of the signals >> are above S-9 that I listen to. >> de KG9H, Frank >> >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Filters for K3
Frank, You can certainly use the 13kHz filter for listening to AM - even for transmitting. It also works for FM as well, so the 6 kHz filter does not have to be present. 73, Don W3FPR On 4/26/2019 8:36 AM, Frank Krozel wrote: On weekends here in the Midwest there are many AM nets (as well as the normal 3.880 Nets) that I like to listen to. I am curious as a CW guy, I would like to not take away from my already compliment of filters, 500, 200Hz to put in 6 and 13kHz filters, thinking of adding just the 13kHz filter. I also do 52.525. How would the 13kHz filter work for listening to AM? I assume I can start with that filter and use the variable to neck it down? Most of the signals are above S-9 that I listen to. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - DVR installation question
It’s fairly involved to add after the fact. Not difficult — but considerably more than “pull the cover, plug it in”. https://ftp.elecraft.com/K3S/Manuals%20Downloads/E740130%20KDVR3%20Option%20Installation%20Rev%20C.pdf Grant NQ5T K3 #2091 KX3 #8342 > On Apr 26, 2019, at 9:19 AM, Bill wrote: > > What is entailed in installing a DVR into the K3? Sadly, I have to Move the > KPA-500 and a PalStar manual (large) tuner before I can even get to the K3, > For me, this is a big job. So thought I'd ask before I blindly jump into this. > > Bill W2BLC > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 - DVR installation question
What is entailed in installing a DVR into the K3? Sadly, I have to Move the KPA-500 and a PalStar manual (large) tuner before I can even get to the K3, For me, this is a big job. So thought I'd ask before I blindly jump into this. Bill W2BLC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Filters for K3
I find the 6KHz very adequate for AM, both RX and TX. Bob, K4TAX Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 26, 2019, at 7:36 AM, Frank Krozel wrote: > > On weekends here in the Midwest there are many AM nets (as well as the normal > 3.880 Nets) that I like to listen to. > I am curious as a CW guy, I would like to not take away from my already > compliment of filters, 500, 200Hz to put in 6 and 13kHz filters, thinking of > adding just the 13kHz filter. I also do 52.525. > How would the 13kHz filter work for listening to AM? I assume I can start > with that filter and use the variable to neck it down? Most of the signals > are above S-9 that I listen to. > de KG9H, Frank > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K2] Rig Control Error
Phil, I've got my K2/100 running under Win10 using DXLabs Commander. I could never get WSJT-X running the K2 directly using the built in Hamlib settings, or with Omnirig or Flrig. It works fine, and I was able to create custom controls for Commander to adjust the power if I'm running remotely using VNC. Neil, KN3ILZ On 4/24/2019 11:02 PM, Phil Kane wrote: Problem (described below) with the WSJTX program (the "home" of FT8) trying to access K2. I didn't get an answer on the WSJTX Yahoo group so I'll try here. Configuration: Dell Laptop PC with iMic and RigBlaster Plus connected to Elecraft K2. Both the Elecraft and RigBlaster serial ports connected to the computer are 9-pin "RS-232" wired ports and all drivers are current. With PC running Windows 7, both MixW3 and WSJTX 2.0.0 using identical CAT control and audio settings ran without problems. After upgrading the computer to Win 10 with no other changes, MixW3 runs properly but WSJTX 2.0.0 and 2.0.1 did not. The error messages from Hamlib are: (Tune) "IO error while opening connection to rig" (Test CAT) "Communication timed out while opening connection to rig" In additions, the frequency readout on the WSJTX UI has reverted to all zeros. Are there "permission" settings in Win 10 that didn't exist in Win 7? Has anyone experienced this with Win 10 and found a solution? 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 >From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Filters for K3
On weekends here in the Midwest there are many AM nets (as well as the normal 3.880 Nets) that I like to listen to. I am curious as a CW guy, I would like to not take away from my already compliment of filters, 500, 200Hz to put in 6 and 13kHz filters, thinking of adding just the 13kHz filter. I also do 52.525. How would the 13kHz filter work for listening to AM? I assume I can start with that filter and use the variable to neck it down? Most of the signals are above S-9 that I listen to. de KG9H, Frank __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3S Audio buzz on transmit, especially AM
Again, the problem persists with all inputs completely disconnected and the mic gain set at 0. And running solely on a battery into a dummy load. Nick On Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 10:10 PM Jim Brown wrote: > On 4/25/2019 8:15 PM, Nicklas Johnson wrote: > > Physically touching the case or grabbing the barrel of the front panel > mic > > connector actually does cause the buzz to get just a little softer. > > I suspect either a bonding problem or a problem with the wiring of the mic. > > > I generally use solar/battery power, though my ground is bonded to my > > utility ground. > > I suggest that you carefully study either N0AX's recent ARRL book on > grounding and bonding, or the slides for talks I've given at Visalia and > Pacifion. > > 73, Jim K9YC > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
