[Elecraft] KPA1500 5V ERR Fault

[Paul Christensen]

First, the 10V regulator failed a while back, now the amp faults and
displays "5V ERR."  I've not been successful in getting a complete
schematic.  If I can get the board number/name and schematic symbol (e.g.,
U1), I can fix this on my own as I did with the 10V reg repair. Requests to
the Elecraft help desk do get answered but it took over a month of very slow
communication. 

 

The list archives show comments about the 5V ERR fault, but no detail.  Any
assistance with a schematic symbol and board number would be very helpful,
especially if there's more than one 5V regulator in the KPA1500 amp.  

 

Paul, W9AC 

  

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[Elecraft] KPA1500 Cooling

[Paul Christensen]

>"Until it leaks on the LDMOS devices."

Pure water is an insulator.  Leakage becomes a problem when water becomes
contaminated with conductive particles.  This rarely occurs in closed loop
systems that use distilled water when non-contaminating hoses, fittings, and
heat exchangers are used.  My 2KW LDMOS amp uses water cooling in such a
closed system. 

My main amplifier at home is an Alpha PA-70V.  The amp uses an openly-cooled
vapor-phase system.  A pint of distilled water separates 4KV of plate
voltage and chassis ground.  Water is in direct contact with the plate. In
time, air particles do contaminate the water (usually in the form of algae)
and the system must be purged and refilled at annual intervals.  If leakage
exceeds a predetermined amount, the amp faults and shuts down.  

Paul, W9AC  


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[Elecraft] K4 and RTTY question

[Paul Christensen]

>"This includes RemoteRig boxes, the YCCC SO2R Box, the Mortty, etc.  None
of them will pass the WKTEST program."

After two years, I gave up.  RemoteRig's internal keyer and COM port path
when using N1MM are flat-out awful unless the Internet connection has
extremely low latency and jitter.  Low-error results cannot be accomplished
from multiple remote sites while traveling.  No amount of adjusting over a
two year period would correct all the timing errors.  

I'm now using two WinkeyerUSB boxes and K1EL's Remote Software.  One WKUSB
box is installed at each end of the link.  CW from paddles or keyboard is
always perfect even with marginal internet connections.  Setup is easy and
having a WKUSB at the control point also gives me four physical memory
buttons.  The box is small and doesn't add much weight or space inside a
remote equipment case.

I dread the thought that the K4 includes an embedded variant of the
RemoteRig -- as a means to accelerate product development.  Although it's
probably too late for Elecraft to consider a real, internal WK chip (and
negotiate a deal with K1EL), that would have been my preferred method of
generating CW from a remote location.  

Paul, W9AC   
   
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[Elecraft] FT8 - was "On Second Thought, I'll Take The Stairs"

[Paul Christensen]

>"And I have one that says "RTTY" but it's now a Digital DXCC.  I had to
resort to FT8 to work Monaco to get on the Digital Honor Roll, with the
other 330 having been on RTTY."

Just to quickly add my input before the topic is canned.

I'm not enamored with FT8 but just for grins, I conducted an FT8 experiment
a few months ago to see how many countries I could work with no antenna
terminated at the end of a broken open-feeder transmission line.  That's
right - no antenna, just a hunk of balanced open feeder line that sits
unterminated on my backyard fence.  Using a 100W rig with output power
turned down to 20W, SWR is off-scale.  I work on my own gear.  If I blow it
up, so be it.  

Over a few weeks I worked about 35 countries on 20m and 11 countries on 40m,
all FT8 of course.No antenna and sky high SWR.  By now, folks are
thinking."yeah no antenna, but your line is the antenna, balanced or not."
That's right.  There's just enough imbalance between the two conductor
feeders that the line has some radiation.  The imbalance is caused by the
usual culprits like proximity to aluminum gutters and some inherent
imbalance between the rig and feeder.  However, it just goes to show that
skill to make FT8 DX contacts rests largely with the algorithm.  Frankly,
most of the skill needed is in learning to install and configure the WSJT-X
software - which isn't difficult.  As such, I find it amusing that anyone
considers FT8 an accomplishment - and a semi-automatic one at that.  But for
those who feel it is an accomplishment, there's no point in denying their
satisfaction.

Paul  W9AC 




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[Elecraft] RemoteRig Units

[Paul Christensen]

> "After many years and many stations. I still believe this blows away any
> other remote setup (even though no panadapter)."

After nearly four years of trying many RRC settings, I've given up on the
RRC's CW capability.  Periodic RRC firmware updates have been of no help.   

It's not the manner in which CW is generated, but that very brief packet
loss results in missed character elements.  That same packet loss does not
affect CW with a pair of synchronized Winkeyer USB devices when used with
K1EL's WKRemote software.  His software generates paddle commands as
complete characters rather than real-time dits and dahs.  The result is that
the transmission of each formed letter is delayed by the time it takes to
create a character, but one can still hear the receiver between keyed
elements.  So, break-in is not lost.  CW keyboard, Winkeyer message buttons,
and macro commands are not delayed and are transmitted in real time. 

I have access to several pinging tools including Ping Plotter software.
Pings are clean to and from the site without packet loss and excessive
jitter.  For some reason, packets are lost in the RRC.  It occurs enough to
be distracting to the station on the other end of a QSO.  My feeling is that
it's better to live with slight character latency than have garbled
characters.  So far, the synchronized Winkeyers have been 100% reliable for
CW.  

Paul, W9AC

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[Elecraft] KIO3B USB Surge Suppressor

[Paul Christensen]

Looking for input from anyone who has successfully installed a
surge-suppression device on a USB port.  I am in the process of repairing a
KIO3B board after a recent thunderstorm.  

The KIO3B uses an ST Microelectronics USBLC6-2 ESD protection device at the
front end of the K3's USB connector.  The protection device is a SOT chip
that contains five low-capacitance diodes to clamp voltage to acceptable
limits.  

In this case, the diodes have shorted, causing the USB connector to show a
dead short to the PC's USB port, which causes an overload to the PC's USB
power bus.  This has caused all USB ports to disappear in Windows Device
Manager.  The short goes on until I can get to the remote site, sometimes
days or even weeks later.

Ideally, I would like to find a USB protection device that is designed to
fail open - open as in an open circuit into the USB driver that follows.
That way, I can still find a problem if Windows Device Manager doesn't show
a USB connection while not risking the destruction of the PC's USB power
bus.

Paul, W9AC
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Re: [Elecraft] K4 Remote Control

[Paul Christensen]

>"I believe the KY commands are already able to be utilized by N1MM..."

All good. What I'm referring to is packet-generated characters while using
*paddles*.  Instead of dit and dah elements, the keyer interprets paddle
closure and creates an ASCII or similar character.  

For example, the worst-case character delay when using this mode is the
number zero (0).  The character isn't sent until the last "dah" element is
formed and the dah paddle is released.  One may think this creates a huge
timing problem on the air, but it really doesn't in actual practice.  

To the best of my knowledge this mode of character forming was first used by
Ten Tec in the Omni VI, then adopted by K1EL in his WinkeyerUSB device.

Paul, W9AC

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Re: [Elecraft] K4 Remote Control

[Paul Christensen]

>"If K4 uses a super-set of K3 commands then I assume it would support KY
mode ( ASCII characters transmitted over the CAT interface) for CW. I
think this mode would be a lot better known if it was supported by N1MM+
but, last time I checked, it isn't."

If Elecraft has partnered with Microbit, then that saved a whole lot of
remote development time and RemoteRig could easily be embedded into the K4,
either on it's own board, or on the K4 I/O interface.  If that's the case, I
hope an option could be added to transmit complete characters in addition to
the current configuration.

Paul, W9AC



 

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[Elecraft] K4 Remote Control

[Paul Christensen]

>"Remote control -- The K4 comes with remote-control via Ethernet built in.
One K4 can controlled by another, or by a tablet or PC. Eric must have
demonstrated this 500 times at Dayton and I daresay he's getting good at
it."

Wayne,

Since 2015, N4CC and I have been operating a remote station on the FL/GA
state line.  A K3 and RemoteRig have been the centerpiece of the station.
Hopefully, Elecraft has been getting feedback from its remote users on
various networking and operability issues.  

While we consider the value of replacing the K3 with a K4, here's my list of
items that would make the decision easier:

1) Incorporate variable panadapter streaming bandwidth, much the way that
VNC users can change streaming bandwidth on the fly.  Our station uses a
Verizon 4G/LTE link on the "last mile."  We're presently limited to a
30GB/month plan and between two users, we often approach the monthly limit
with RemoteRig and VNC, especially during DXpedition activity.   At low
streaming settings, the display would need to show reasonably good
resolution/screen refresh to be of any added value to us.  Keep in mind that
not all remote users have access to unlimited data plans;

2) Ability to kill audio streaming on the fly.  When operating FT8, RTTY and
other digital modes remotely with the digital applications residing on a
host desktop via VNC or TeamViewer, there's absolutely no need to stream
audio.  An audio kill switch would save a tremendous amount of monthly data
for users like us on a monthly data plan.

3) CW performance can be improved over RemoteRig.  Instead of sending "dit
and dah" elements, consider sending ASCII characters or a variant where full
characters are transmitted in a data packet.   K1EL remote software and the
Ten Tec Omni VII stream CW in complete characters.  In my experience, those
systems have been far superior to that of RemoteRig.  For five years, I used
a pair of linked K1EL Winkeyers and never had the CW stuttering and missed
keyed element issues I experience with RemoteRig.  No doubt other users have
had no issues but this is important to users like us who are dependent on
multiple media forms in the complete transmission path (e.g.,
hybrid-fiber-coaxial to 4G/5G/LTE) where jitter and latency are constantly
changing on the network.

4) Until a "K4 Mini" is released, it makes little sense to purchase a K4 if
a companion K4 is required at the control point.  That's a lot of dough
sitting unused on the desktop.  Any idea as to when a mini version will be
released?

These are my issues based on four years of remote experience with a K3.  I'm
sure other remote users may want to chime in with their own.  All feedback
is good.

Paul, W9AC

 

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[Elecraft] Franklin antennas

[Paul Christensen]

>"Both stations have extensive ground systems that would not be needed if
they were dipoles."

AMBC ground systems would still be needed (unless sited over salt water) to
maximize ground-wave coverage even if they were center-fed vertical dipoles.
The field intensity produced by a ground-mounted, center-fed 1/2 wave dipole
is the same as a voltage-fed (at the tower base) vertical radiator.  

The majority of omnidirectional, high-power AM stations use anywhere between
180 to 195 degree towers, voltage-fed at the base.  In essence, they behave
like vertical dipoles and in each case, they employ extensive radial
systems.  With either feed, maximum RF current occurs at the mid-point, and
maximum voltage at either end.  

I don't recall if the Franklin was developed before or after studies showed
that multi-lobe skywave radiation is minimized with 190 degree monopole
radiators.  That's the reason why so many legendary high-power stations use
a tower height slightly longer than a half-wave while ground field intensity
is essentially identical to the half-wave radiator.  

Paul, W9AC
(Ex-RKO Radio, Chicago)

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[Elecraft] internet speed for remote K3S

[Paul Christensen]

>"My experience is exactly that; look out for latency; that is the killer."

Apart from use with satellite-based services (e.g., Hughes, maritime VSAT,
etc.), I've found latency is reasonably low even from hotel and 4G
connections.  Jitter will almost always be the dominating factor, especially
when using a remote CW connection.   I won't even try satellite remoting;
it's a horrible experience.  From home or when roaming on my iPhone 's WiFi
hotspot connection, my QSK CW experience is almost as good as a local
connection.  The remote site is on Verizon 4G/LTE service with a 30 GB/month
plan.  

I use PingPlotter software that shows typical ping time under 50 ms. from
home to my remote site about 30 miles away.  The longest measured latency is
the link between the Verizon cell site and the 4G router at the shack.  That
comprises about 50% of the total latency.  In between, the service changes
hands among several internet transport providers.  I just ran a quick test
and see 12 hops before it gets to the destination.  The path changes from
day-to-day.

Back to the OP's question of "what speed will give satisfactory results?"
Assuming a K3 with RemoteRig, look at the RemoteRig manual, Appendix A for a
table that illustrates data consumption as a function of bit rate and
whether dual-channel audio is engaged.  For example, 12-bit linear, 2
channel audio (for dual receive) requires 240 kbps.  That's not much data.
Of course, there's going to be other overhead when running applications on
the same link.  Any of the high speed "light" packages will work fine with
the RemoteRig unless using high bit-rate settings.  I've noticed no
operating issues when using an account with 1.5 Mbps download and 500 kbps
upload speeds and when either VNC or TeamViewer is running in the
background.  My iPhone's WiFi hotspot typically gives 10/5 Mbps service as
long as there's ample 4G/LTE signal strength.

Paul, W9AC



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[Elecraft] KPA1500 Remote Program

[Paul Christensen]

Has anyone on the list been successful in remoting their KPA1500 over the
Internet using either USB or Ethernet server mode?  I've tried both modes,
and no-go.  Just getting either host server mode up and active at the remote
site takes perhaps ten tries to finally connect.  However, to date I've not
had one successful connection to the KPA1500 over the Internet.  *Local*
connectivity using either mode does work, but it's not stable. 

The remote site I share with N4CC has extensive remote networking
capabilities.  I'm confident that the network is provisioned correctly,
including port-forwarding assignments. 

Paul, W9AC

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[Elecraft] [KPA1500] Auto start KPA1500-Remote in host mode ?

[Paul Christensen]

Loaded the KPA1500 remote software this evening.  Some observations:

1)  Cannot run local *and* remote server host simultaneously when using
USB connectivity.  I am hoping this limitation can be overcome when I add an
Ethernet cable at the remote site in addition to USB connectivity.  Reason?
One remote user wants to control the KPA1500 via TeamViewer through the
local connect while I want to run the amp using the remote utility as a
client on my mobile PC desktop;

2)  Switching between local and host server modes is sluggish.  It takes
time for Windows to release the USB COM port when changing between the two
modes.  In one instance, I had to disable the COM port in Windows' device
manager, then re-enable.

Despite these issues, I wish to thank the Elecraft team for their work on
the program.

Paul, W9AC

   
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[Elecraft] KPA1500 Remote Software Update

[Paul Christensen]

>"The link will be back soon. We found a few bugs in the remote sw and
temporarily 
pulled it from the ftp site.  Stay tuned!  We'll announce here when it is
back up next week.
Eric   /elecraft.com/"

Any further updates on when the KPA1500 Remote Software will become
available for download?

Paul, W9AC




On 7/17/2018 10:00 PM, Paul Baldock wrote:
> Listed under new features for 01.64 7-12-2018  is 
>  1_0_4_0.exe>Support for Elecraft Remote Software, ver 1.0.4.0.
>
> This suggests that the remote software is now available. However the link 
> appears not to work. Is the remote software in fact available somewhere?
>
> - Paul  KW7Y

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[Elecraft] FM station QRM

[Paul Christensen]

>"Has anyone else experienced this and if so have you found any solutions?"

Easily solved with any low-pass filter on the K3's ANT1 port (EF Johnson,
Nye, Drake, Bencher, countless others).  Then use ANT2 for 6m.  The
multipole LP filters typically have a sharp cut-off above 35 MHz and
response is down some 70-80 dB at FM broadcast frequencies.  Bencher specs
their YA-1 filter -80 dB at 52 MHz with 0.2 dB insertion loss.

I went through this very issue with several Ten Tec transceivers.  I used a
Nye filter that way for 10+ years and it completely cured the problem.  

Paul, W9AC
 

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[Elecraft] KPA1500 Client/Server Software

[Paul Christensen]

Is there any news from Elecraft or a third-party developer concerning
KPA1500 client/server software?  Some of us, and likely many more ops, need
the ability to control the amp from a remote desktop without the need of
desktop replication software like TeamViewer and VNC.   N4CC and I share his
KPA1500 at a remote and while the KPA1500 setup utility gets the job done,
it's a poor user experience.

What's needed is a highly graphical client/server application similar to the
type designed by Bernd Koch, DF3CB for the Alpha 87A amplifier.  That
package has client and server components, and the GUI is a high-resolution
graphic of the amplifier complete with switches, LEDs, panel graphics, even
the logo.  Clicking on the GUI is just like finger presses on the actual
amp.  It would be great to utilize the KPA1500's Ethernet port but even
client/server connectivity via USB is fine for now -- just to get something
going other than the KPA1500 setup utility.

I'm willing to help finance the development to get something moving along
now and not some TBD date in the future.  

Paul, W9AC





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[Elecraft] Issue 12 re Astron Power Supply

[Paul Christensen]

K9YC:

>"Joe is right and George is WRONG.  V- is NOT GROUND, it is the return for
DC power.  Bonding V- to ground is a BAD idea -- that's why virtually all
pro-grade power supplies are built either without the bond or so that the
bond can easily be removed."

And from K2VCO:

>"But I keep coming back to this: almost every device connected to the power
supply has V- connected to ground internally. So if you have, say, a keyer
and a transceiver running off the same supply, won't some of the
transceiver's current flow through the V- line to the keyer, to the case of
the keyer via the internal connection, to the station bonding, to the
transceiver case and thence to the transceiver V- input?"

Just my 2-cents, but both statements are correct, depending on the context.
Let's compare figures 3 & 4 in K9YC's link:

http://k9yc.com/PowerSupplyBondingAndAudioDistortion.pdf 

The transceiver's return lead current is controlled in figure 4, but only if
12V accessories are not connected to the power supply.  The moment we do, we
essentially create the condition shown in figure 3 -- and to K2VCO's point,
the supply's V(-) lead and chassis will come together by virtue of the
accessory equipment and the ground lead of the supply's AC power cord.
Complete control of the transceiver's return current is then lost and we
must rely on much heavier gauge wire to ensure the return lead current does
not split into accessory equipment.

I now run one transceiver to one 12V PS.  One rig, one supply.  Accessories
are connected to a separate supply and feed a RigRunner DC power manifold.
Accessory current through the RigRunner is low and no external audio gear is
powered from it.

Paul, W9AC

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Reading/SWR/ALC Problem

[Paul Christensen]

Epilog:  Today, I replaced both BAS70 Schottky diodes (D36/D37) and now the K3 
SWR readings are stable and the internal ALC is working as expected.  At this 
time, it appears diode failure was caused by antenna static.

A suggestion to those who may run into this problem in the future:  it turns 
out that D36 and D37 are easily accessible by removing only the bottom rear 
plate.   Access could not be easier.  The diodes are SMT/SMD and so great care 
must be exercised in the rework process.  

What should have taken me less than 30 minutes turned into several hours.  I 
had convinced myself that the diodes were either on the PA module or KAT3 and 
so I had disassembled much of the K3.  The K3 block diagram doesn’t show a 
module where the SWR bridge resides.  The schematic indicates "K3 RF Board," 
but that's not the PA module.  The RF Board is actually the flat motherboard 
that the PA module and KAT3 plug into.  Once that detail was figured out, I 
reassembled the K3, leaving only the bottom plate open for the repair.  

Paul, W9AC



-Original Message-----
From: Paul Christensen [mailto:w...@arrl.net] 
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 7:12 PM
To: 'elecraft@mailman.qth.net' <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 Power Reading/SWR/ALC Problem

>"From experience, I'd say nearby lightning strikes would be the 
culprit."

Highly unlikely.  Clear skies for days.  No lightning activity here in a long 
time here.  Two years ago, I had a similar problem with static-damaged Schottky 
diodes in an Alpha 9500.  Those diodes are used to sample RF for the amp's EBS 
circuit.  

>"I strongly urge everyone to use protection devices on all 
coax and balanced lines at the point where the feed lines and rotor 
lines enter the house.  I prefer Polyphaser devices."

Already installed and we never disconnect at the remote site.  The site 
conforms to Motorola R56.  No lightning-induced damage in almost 3 years of 
operation in a very lightning-intense location near the Okefenokee Swamp.   
High power Alpha-Delta arc-plug devices are located at the master ground bus 
where all coaxial and control lines enter the station.  Low power (200W) 
Alpha-Delta devices are installed between the K3 and amplifiers.  The 
Alpha-Delta devices use field-replaceable arc-plugs.  Like Polyphaser, these 
devices are intended to mitigate lightning-induced charge, not necessarily 
antenna static charge.  Still, it's possible that one or more of the 
Alpha-Delta arc plugs has failed, leaving the K3 vulnerable to static damage. 

In looking at the K3 SWR bridge circuit, both sides of the Schottky diodes have 
a reasonably low impedance to chassis ground.  One side is slightly less than 
22K-ohm.  However, it may not be low enough. To supplement protection, I may 
add a pi-section 1 mH choke between T3 and the chassis.  It's the same choke 
used as a static drain in the Alpha 89 and 87A amplifiers to prevent 
static-induced PIN diode damage, and the type used at the output of many vacuum 
tube amps to function as a safety device in the event a plate blocking 
capacitor fails in a shorted condition that would otherwise allow high-voltage 
on the output network, transmission line, and antenna.

Although fun to discuss and contemplate fixes, it's conjecture until validated 
and the root-cause may not be related to any of this.

Paul, W9AC

ly failed.

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[Elecraft] K3 Power Reading/SWR/ALC Problem

[Paul Christensen]

> "This cable worked for me for several years but recently failed.  Bring
some extra jumper coax with you..."

Karin,

Many thanks.  I have several extra RG-400 jumpers that can be used as well
as confirming if the issue appears on ANT-2.  Schottky diodes arrive
tomorrow, so I'll be ready later this week.  I'll report back on the final
fix.

Paul, W9AC

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Reading/SWR/ALC Problem

[Paul Christensen]

>"From experience, I'd say nearby lightning strikes would be the 
culprit."

Highly unlikely.  Clear skies for days.  No lightning activity here in a long 
time here.  Two years ago, I had a similar problem with static-damaged Schottky 
diodes in an Alpha 9500.  Those diodes are used to sample RF for the amp's EBS 
circuit.  

>"I strongly urge everyone to use protection devices on all 
coax and balanced lines at the point where the feed lines and rotor 
lines enter the house.  I prefer Polyphaser devices."

Already installed and we never disconnect at the remote site.  The site 
conforms to Motorola R56.  No lightning-induced damage in almost 3 years of 
operation in a very lightning-intense location near the Okefenokee Swamp.   
High power Alpha-Delta arc-plug devices are located at the master ground bus 
where all coaxial and control lines enter the station.  Low power (200W) 
Alpha-Delta devices are installed between the K3 and amplifiers.  The 
Alpha-Delta devices use field-replaceable arc-plugs.  Like Polyphaser, these 
devices are intended to mitigate lightning-induced charge, not necessarily 
antenna static charge.  Still, it's possible that one or more of the 
Alpha-Delta arc plugs has failed, leaving the K3 vulnerable to static damage. 

In looking at the K3 SWR bridge circuit, both sides of the Schottky diodes have 
a reasonably low impedance to chassis ground.  One side is slightly less than 
22K-ohm.  However, it may not be low enough. To supplement protection, I may 
add a pi-section 1 mH choke between T3 and the chassis.  It's the same choke 
used as a static drain in the Alpha 89 and 87A amplifiers to prevent 
static-induced PIN diode damage, and the type used at the output of many vacuum 
tube amps to function as a safety device in the event a plate blocking 
capacitor fails in a shorted condition that would otherwise allow high-voltage 
on the output network, transmission line, and antenna.

Although fun to discuss and contemplate fixes, it's conjecture until validated 
and the root-cause may not be related to any of this.

Paul, W9AC

ly failed.

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Reading/SWR/ALC Problem

[Paul Christensen]

Dick & Don,

Thanks for confirming.  Although unlikely to be the source of trouble, It
also appears U6 and U8 are in the VFWD and VREF circuit paths.  I'll order
up everything and have it on hand when I replace this week.  It could also
be a passive problem like a marginally-corroded connector, or failed
resistor.  

By the way, the problem manifests with high SWR and power set readings that
no longer match anything close to  actual output power into known good
loads.  The SWR reading fluctuates excessively with change in the PWR
control and slight changes in the control quickly lead to 120W power spikes
when the K3 display indicates 15-20W.  This tells me the ALC circuit is not
getting a good forward power sample.  So, it appears the SWR bridge or
surrounding circuitry has partially failed.  

Paul

-Original Message-
From: d...@elecraft.com [mailto:d...@elecraft.com] 
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 1:18 PM
To: 'Paul Christensen' <w...@arrl.net>
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 Power Reading/SWR/ALC Problem

I don't know where purchasing actually buys the parts, but...

D36 and D37 are BAS70INCT Diode, 70V, SOT23, like Digi-Key BAS70INTR-ND
U16 is LM358, DUAL OP AMP, SOIC8, SMD, like Digi-Key LM358DR2GOSTR-ND

73 de Dick, K6KR


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Paul Christensen
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 08:02
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Power Reading/SWR/ALC Problem

I have a K3 at a remote site about an hour north of my home so
unfortunately, I cannot quickly investigate an issue that's recently
developed.  After reviewing the K3 schematics, the root cause is likely
isolated to the following parts on the PA board: D36, D37 (BAS70 - Schottky
directional coupler sampling diodes), and/or U16 (LM358 dual op-amp used as
a voltage-follower).  

My question:  are these three parts leaded or SMT/SMD?  Perhaps I'm not
looking hard enough on the Elecraft website but I don't see a detailed
B.O.M. for the K3/K3s.  I want to be ready for replacement without wasting a
two-hour trip to/from the site.  Thanks.

Paul, W9AC

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[Elecraft] K3 Power Reading/SWR/ALC Problem

[Paul Christensen]

I have a K3 at a remote site about an hour north of my home so
unfortunately, I cannot quickly investigate an issue that's recently
developed.  After reviewing the K3 schematics, the root cause is likely
isolated to the following parts on the PA board: D36, D37 (BAS70 - Schottky
directional coupler sampling diodes), and/or U16 (LM358 dual op-amp used as
a voltage-follower).  

My question:  are these three parts leaded or SMT/SMD?  Perhaps I'm not
looking hard enough on the Elecraft website but I don't see a detailed
B.O.M. for the K3/K3s.  I want to be ready for replacement without wasting a
two-hour trip to/from the site.  Thanks.

Paul, W9AC

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Re: [Elecraft] KRC2 with K3 and RemoteRig

[Paul Christensen]

>"The KRC2 connects quite nicely to the K3's AuxBus. In fact this is the
recommended method for using the KRC2 with the K3.
It will respond to the band change information the K3 sends on that medium.
The Auxbus is on the K3's AUX IO connector. As I recall, it is on pin 2,
with ground on Pin 5. See the KRC2 manual for more information.
If you have questions about the KRC2, just ask! - Jack, W6FB
Elecraft Engineering"

Jack, exactly what I needed.  Many thanks!

Paul, W9AC

-Original Message-----
From: Paul Christensen [mailto:w...@arrl.net] 
Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2017 4:37 PM
To: 'elecraft@mailman.qth.net' <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: KRC2 with K3 and RemoteRig

I have a need to automatically switch antennas based on the K3's band data.
Is it possible to use the Elecraft KRC2 device with the K3 + RemoteRig?  The
K3's RS232 port is already connected to the RemoteRig RRC unit.  What is
Elecraft's recommendation to accomplish data splitting between all three
units?  

Paul, W9AC 

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[Elecraft] KRC2 with K3 and RemoteRig

[Paul Christensen]

I have a need to automatically switch antennas based on the K3's band data.
Is it possible to use the Elecraft KRC2 device with the K3 + RemoteRig?  The
K3's RS232 port is already connected to the RemoteRig RRC unit.  What is
Elecraft's recommendation to accomplish data splitting between all three
units?  

Paul, W9AC 

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[Elecraft] GPS Disciplined 10MHZ source from China

[Paul Christensen]

>"If you want a good quality 10 MHz GPSDO, I recommend the one made by Leo
Bodnar M0XER. It was reviewed in QST, June 2016."

Unless the K3S architecture is different than the K3, then frequency, rather
than phase-locking is used from the external frequency source.  Phase noise
performance of the GPS-DO doesn't impact performance of the K3 receiver.

However, if planning on distributing the GPS-DO to other devices, I think
it's worthwhile to note that the higher-priced version of the Bodnar is
still > 30 dB worse at a 100 Hz Fc offset than a common Trimble Thunderbolt
with the Trimble-branded OCXO (not Piezo) when powered from a low-noise,
lab-grade supply.  For example, typical Trimble PN at 100 Hz is -160 dBc.
The upper-grade Bodnar unit is about -125 dBc.  

Compared to what's available on the new and used markets, I agree with G4DYA
that the Bodnar's performance is probably characterized as good, but not
excellent.  Again, for K3 users it isn't an issue, but if the device is
driving other test gear or other transceivers, that 30 dB difference may
mean a lot.  

The Thunderbolts were once plentiful on eBay for USD $99.  Scarcity has
driven that up but with persistence, a watchful eye can still spot one at a
reasonable price.   

I ended up installing a Trimble unit and Lambda linear supply into a
customized enclosure.  It drives a TAPR distribution amp and that supplies a
precision 10 MHz refence to multiple transceivers and test equipment.  

http://tinyurl.com/j7r36w5

Paul, W9AC

 





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[Elecraft] KPA1500 Enhancement

[Paul Christensen]

>"Of course, this flexibility comes at a price- The Power Genius is
significantly more expensive than the KPA1500"

And for the majority of users, that's an expensive convenience for the
feature of a transceiver selection switch that I think is best managed
external to the amp.  With the growing popularity of remote operation,
there's an opportunity for more than just one vendor to produce a line of
Ethernet-controlled RF switches in various x(in) to y(out) matrix options.
In this case, a 2x1 switch would serve the purpose without burdening the
rest of us with a feature we may not want to pay in the KPA1500.

N4CC and I share a remote site in north Florida, on the FL/GA state line.
Our current HF amplifier has a built-in 4-port antenna switch.  While we
would like the KPA1500 to have 4, or even 6 output connectors, that
convenience is probably best managed with an external RF switch that links
to the KPA1500 (and/or K3) for automatic antenna selection on a per-band
basis.Although we could likely use DDUtil or other such 3rd-party
control programs, hopefully Elecraft will consider a line of external RF
switches as an option with the amp.

Paul, W9AC  



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[Elecraft] Additional KPA1500 amplifier information

[Paul Christensen]

Wayne,

Congrats on what looks like a very well-designed amp.  I've been waiting on
an amp with these features for a very long time.  Of particular interest to
me is your continued use of PIN diode T/R switching.  Can you describe SWR
protection to the Rx PIN diodes at the 1.5KW level?  I suspect that a
fast-detecting SWR switch will be the main focus of protection, as well as
HV back-biasing of the Rx diodes.  An open or short RF termination requires
over 900V DC to keep Rx PIN diodes from going into conduction.  Can you
describe this area of circuit protection just a bit?  

Secondly, I know that fan noise is difficult to quantify in words.  Anything
particularly innovative you're going to minimize cooling noise?  Thanks!

Paul, W9AC




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[Elecraft] K-Pod & K3-Mini

[Paul Christensen]

After studying the K-Pod manual this evening, it's not clear if the device
will work with a K3-Mini?  It may seem strange using the K-Pod with a Mini,
but a recent shack change has resulted in the panel being placed on an upper
desk tier.  

Paul, W9AC

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Re: [Elecraft] FLDIGI and K3

[Paul Christensen]

NR4C gets the gold star.  Fldigi opens fine and syncs with the K3 when "Run
as Administrator." The configuration file was saved as Administrator.

But the reason is?

Paul, W9AC

-Original Message-
From: Nr4c [mailto:n...@widomaker.com] 
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 6:44 PM
To: Paul Christensen <w...@arrl.net>
Cc: Jerry Moore <je...@carolinaheli.com>; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FLDIGI and K3

Where is fldigi software located on your computer?  You must have Write
privileges to save the CONFIG files. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On May 23, 2016, at 5:13 PM, Paul Christensen <w...@arrl.net> wrote:
> 
> Dave,
> 
> Correct.  I must always initialize Fldigi with my K3.  Once 
> initialized, it's works fine.  If I close it and re-open, initializing is
needed again.
> 
> Paul, W9AC
> 
>> On Mon, 2016-05-23 at 13:19 -0400, Paul Christensen wrote:
>> Jerry,
>> 
>> Thanks for the tip.  I'll use a macro in Fldigi if there's no simple 
>> solution available.
>> 
>> Paul, W9AC
> 
> Paul,
> 
> If I understand you correctly, you set things up in FLDigi, get them 
> working, and then if you close the program, and restart it, the rig is 
> no longer controlled.  Is that correct?
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 73's, and thanks,
> Dave (NK7Z)
> For software/hardware reviews see:
> http://www.nk7z.net
> 
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> n...@widomaker.com

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Re: [Elecraft] FLDIGI and K3

[Paul Christensen]

>”Are you using virtual com port software that's not up and running before you 
>start fldigi?  Are you saying "yes" to the save settings popup when closing 
>after you fix the problem?

 

-Bob”

 

Physical COM port connected to the K3.  It’s an FTDI USB-toRS232 media 
converter that works fine with anything else connected to the K3.  

 

Yes, have attempted to save the Fldigi configuration in the pop-up a countless 
number of times.

 

Paul, W9AC 

 

On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Paul Christensen <w...@arrl.net 
<mailto:w...@arrl.net> > wrote:

Dave,

Correct.  I must always initialize Fldigi with my K3.  Once initialized,
it's works fine.  If I close it and re-open, initializing is needed again.

Paul, W9AC

On Mon, 2016-05-23 at 13:19 -0400, Paul Christensen wrote:
> Jerry,
>
> Thanks for the tip.  I'll use a macro in Fldigi if there's no simple
> solution available.
>
> Paul, W9AC

Paul,

If I understand you correctly, you set things up in FLDigi, get them
working, and then if you close the program, and restart it, the rig is
no longer controlled.  Is that correct?



--
73's, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
For software/hardware reviews see:
http://www.nk7z.net

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Re: [Elecraft] FLDIGI and K3

[Paul Christensen]

Dave,

Correct.  I must always initialize Fldigi with my K3.  Once initialized,
it's works fine.  If I close it and re-open, initializing is needed again.

Paul, W9AC

On Mon, 2016-05-23 at 13:19 -0400, Paul Christensen wrote:
> Jerry,
> 
> Thanks for the tip.  I'll use a macro in Fldigi if there's no simple
> solution available.  
> 
> Paul, W9AC

Paul,

If I understand you correctly, you set things up in FLDigi, get them
working, and then if you close the program, and restart it, the rig is
no longer controlled.  Is that correct?



-- 
73's, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
For software/hardware reviews see:
http://www.nk7z.net

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Re: [Elecraft] FLDIGI and K3

[Paul Christensen]

Jerry,

Thanks for the tip.  I'll use a macro in Fldigi if there's no simple
solution available.  

Paul, W9AC

-Original Message-
From: Jerry Moore [mailto:je...@carolinaheli.com] 
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 12:13 PM
To: 'Paul Christensen' <w...@arrl.net>; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] FLDIGI and K3

I create a macro in FLDigi and just click that to setup the rig/program

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Paul
Christensen
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 11:34 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] FLDIGI and K3

I have Fldigi configured with a K3 using a .XTML file.  No matter how I try
and save the configuration in Fldigi, each PSK session requires
re-initializing under Fldigi's CONFIGURATION> RIG CONTROL setting.  I've
already tried checking/unchecking several menu "ticks" including unchecking
"reset configuration at exit."

Any idea why the configuration file cannot be saved in Fldigi's
CONFIGURATION sub-menu?  I simply want to start fldigi without having to
"fiddle" with the configuration menu each time a fldigi PSK session is
started.  

Does Flrig get around this limitation?  

Paul, W9AC


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[Elecraft] FLDIGI and K3

[Paul Christensen]

I have Fldigi configured with a K3 using a .XTML file.  No matter how I try
and save the configuration in Fldigi, each PSK session requires
re-initializing under Fldigi's CONFIGURATION> RIG CONTROL setting.  I've
already tried checking/unchecking several menu "ticks" including unchecking
"reset configuration at exit."

Any idea why the configuration file cannot be saved in Fldigi's
CONFIGURATION sub-menu?  I simply want to start fldigi without having to
"fiddle" with the configuration menu each time a fldigi PSK session is
started.  

Does Flrig get around this limitation?  

Paul, W9AC


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[Elecraft] How does one get Elecraft's attention?

[Paul Christensen]

>"Simple thing I'm looking for, Olli...to have a local Perseus SDR track
bi-directionally with the K3/0 Mini, and to connect simultaneously with
N1MM.  If the Mini could "look like" a K3, N4PY software could coordinate
everything.  I do this now with my Orion II.  The RCForb software claims to
have K3 emulation, but it really doesn't look anything like a real K3.  It
connects to N1MM, but that's about it.  Ron Castro  N6IE"

Ron,

N4CC and I have been using our K3-Mini and K3/0 setup to communicate to a K3
at our remote site.  I'm not sure if you're using RemoteRig.  We managed to
open up Com ports between RemoteRig and the shack PC to control and
synchronize an SDR-IQ SDR receiver (tracks with the K3) and also use
software like N1MM and MMTY with a microHam USB Interface.  In fact, I can
control N1MM loaded as a client on my home PC.  But for a lousy DSL
connection at the site, it works perfectly.  We also use Win4K3Suite at the
remote site to save and recall our personal K3 settings between us.

So, if you are not using RemoteRig with your K3-Mini, you may want to look
into it.  I can tell you that quite a bit of brain power is needed to get it
all synched and working together as I described, but it's all manageable.

Paul, W9AC







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Re: [Elecraft] Optimizing K3 Mini Speaker Gain with RemoteRig

[Paul Christensen]

> "Note that the default RemoteRig setting in the control RRC gives a loud 
CW sidetone. This can be easily lowered by going into the keyer settings 
and change "side tone -db" to another number."

As discussed in my post, a change in RRC sidetone level also affects
sidetone level in the headphones.  Reducing the sidetone level alone can
create an imbalance between speaker and headphone audio -- enough to be an
annoyance for me.  In my case, if I reduce RRC CW sidetone level to
eliminate speaker blasting, the sidetone level in headphones is too low.
Moreover, reducing RRC CODEC gain to avoid speaker blasting results in
digital artifacts in some sensitive headphones.  

This may not bother others -- and RRC menu changes may be an acceptable
compromise to some users.  But the resistor change significantly optimizes
and rebalances level between the two output stages when using the K3 Mini
with the RemoteRig RRC.  The end result is a rebalancing of receive audio
and sidetone level between speaker and headphones with no addition of
digital noise or other artifacts.  

Paul, W9AC 


-Original Message-
From: Paul Christensen [mailto:w...@arrl.net] 
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2016 11:10 AM
To: 'elecraft@mailman.qth.net' <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Optimizing K3 Mini Speaker Gain with RemoteRig

Since last May, I've been using a K3 Mini with RemoteRig.  Apart from one
anomaly, operating the K3 Mini has been a great experience.  However, when
using RemoteRig, K3 mini speaker audio is extremely loud and the CW
side-tone is even louder.  However, receive audio and side-tone level in
headphones is excellent.  If one tries to reduce CODEC gain in the
RemoteRig, then headphone audio suffers and low-level digital artifacts
start becoming detectable.  

The fix inside the K3 Mini involves replacement of two (2) "603" size SMT
resistors at R39 and R40.  The stock values are 15K.  I changed these to
100K.  This results in a computed gain close to zero (Av = 1) for the
speaker amp and allows it to be used as a current driver for the speakers.
After the modification, speaker audio approximates headphone level without
excessively loud receive audio and side-tone.  This change may affect
operation of the K3 Mini when a RemoteRig is not used in some applications.
However, probably most K3 Mini owners use theirs with a RemoteRig.

Suggestion to Elecraft:  if there was a design reason for so much speaker
gain, consider placing 0.100" headers on a future PCB revision to allow
jumper selection of either the 15K resistors or 100K.  

Many thanks for a great product.

Paul, W9AC

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[Elecraft] Optimizing K3 Mini Speaker Gain with RemoteRig

[Paul Christensen]

Since last May, I've been using a K3 Mini with RemoteRig.  Apart from one
anomaly, operating the K3 Mini has been a great experience.  However, when
using RemoteRig, K3 mini speaker audio is extremely loud and the CW
side-tone is even louder.  However, receive audio and side-tone level in
headphones is excellent.  If one tries to reduce CODEC gain in the
RemoteRig, then headphone audio suffers and low-level digital artifacts
start becoming detectable.  

The fix inside the K3 Mini involves replacement of two (2) "603" size SMT
resistors at R39 and R40.  The stock values are 15K.  I changed these to
100K.  This results in a computed gain close to zero (Av = 1) for the
speaker amp and allows it to be used as a current driver for the speakers.
After the modification, speaker audio approximates headphone level without
excessively loud receive audio and side-tone.  This change may affect
operation of the K3 Mini when a RemoteRig is not used in some applications.
However, probably most K3 Mini owners use theirs with a RemoteRig.

Suggestion to Elecraft:  if there was a design reason for so much speaker
gain, consider placing 0.100" headers on a future PCB revision to allow
jumper selection of either the 15K resistors or 100K.  

Many thanks for a great product.

Paul, W9AC

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[Elecraft] KIO3B Connectivity

[Paul Christensen]

Looking for feedback when using MMTY and either the K3s or K3 w/ the KIO3B 
upgrade.  My plan is to simplify digital interface cabling by replacing a 
MicroHam USB Interface III with the newly released KIO3B boards for the K3.  My 
assumption is that the KIO3B's USB port will handle both audio and PTT control 
when using AFSK.  

Also, will the new KIO3B allow for FSK keying with no additional hardware or 
cabling to the K3's ACC connector?

Has anyone experienced any USB connectivity issues that might justify keeping 
the microHam USB interface and existing KIO3A board?

Merry Christmas to all!

Paul, W9AC

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Re: [Elecraft] K3/K3s Ethernet Interface

[Paul Christensen]

Jack,

All valid points but take note of K9HZ's work as a start.  Nevertheless, let's 
say native Ethernet control isn't worth the engineering effort.  That should 
not preclude the integration of RemoteRig as an option into a K3/K3s.  

If I didn't care about the resale value of my K3 or RemoteRig, I could easily 
turn this into a weekend construction project and be up and running on Monday 
morning with an Ethernet cable hanging from the back of the K3.  

The RemoteRig board would come out of its enclosure then mount in the K3.  It's 
just a matter of adding an RJ45 port, tapping +12V, internal audio, RS-232, 
PTT, key line, and ACC.  The tapping of RS232 and audio is not trivial but it 
is completely manageable. 

While this adds little additional operational utility than it does now, it 
significantly cleans up K3 cabling with RemoteRig.  No change is needed at the 
client end for use with the K3 mini.  For K3 clients, a similar integration 
could accomplished or kept as it is now with external cabling.  

Of course, there must be enough demand from remote users to make it worthwhile 
as well as cooperation from Microbit. 

Paul, W9AC


Sent from my iPhone6

 On Jul 19, 2015, at 4:56 PM, Jack Brindle jackbrin...@me.com wrote:
 
 Paul;
 
 What is your proposal for the host-side interface? Pretty much all host 
 programs these days use a serial interface. We usually use this through a 
 USB-Serial adapter or through built-in serial ports, which are rapidly 
 disappearing. To make this viable we would need drivers for all major 
 platforms that implement a serial port  driver interface to ethernet. Or, the 
 host programs will need to be modified. 
 
 There is a lot of work needed to make this suggestion viable, both on the 
 host and radio sides. This is the fact same reason we still use serial 
 interfaces for our rigs instead of true USB interface.
 Put forth a good proposal and let it be considered. Without that work 
 (whoever does it), ethernet hardware isn’t very useful.
 
 - Jack, W6FB
 
 p.s., no, this isn’t a flame, but a challenge. Let’s get the whole thing 
 viable, then we will take a good look at implementing it on all sides.
 
 
 On Jul 19, 2015, at 12:24 PM, Paul Christensen w...@arrl.net wrote:
 
 This inquiry is directed to both the Elecraft leadership team as well as
 K3/K3s owners who may have an interest in native Ethernet connectivity.   In
 searching through the list archives, I noted that some K3 owners had
 previously expressed an interest in an Ethernet option - and some owners
 have been disappointed that the new K3s and KIO3B board does not include
 Ethernet connectivity.
 
 
 
 A bit of background: for the past few months, N4CC and I have been operating
 a remote Internet station that's located near the FL/GA state line.  Our
 setup includes a K3 and RemoteRig at the remote site and either a K3 or
 K3-mini at the control locations.  Since the installation, we've experienced
 almost no operating trouble and any issues that have developed are managed
 remotely though direct and back-door network access points. 
 
 
 
 Last week, I made some internal changes to the K3  and also added an
 external USB data interface device for RTTY.  What's apparent is that cable
 management is getting way out of control.  To gain inside access to the K3
 almost requires a meditation exercise before going in.  Consider that a PR6
 is mounted to the back of the K3.  The rear of the K3 is an absolute rat's
 nest of cabling.  With the RemoteRig and PR6, It was bad enough before the
 inclusion of the external USB sound car/interface, but now it's bordering on
 ridiculous.   Moreover, RemoteRig does not allow clean access to the K3's
 ACC DB-15 connector for other purposes such as FSK keying.  Sure, the
 connector can be opened to access pins, but it requires a wiring break-out,
 leading to yet a further rat's nest of cabling.
 
 
 
 To help deal with the cabling issues, I am replacing the external PR6 with
 the new KXVB3 board.  Next, a KIO3B board will be added when it's available
 to existing K3 owners.  That should eliminate the external sound card
 interface and clear up much of the cabling mess, but not all of it.  
 
 
 
 The Holy Grail is an Ethernet interface that includes (optional) integrated
 RemoteRig hardware - just one interface board [e.g., KIO3E(thernet) board]
 that manages K3 Ethernet connectivity with or without RemoteRig attributes.
 Don't need Ethernet? Then don't get the board.  Since the RemoteRig hardware
 is mature and consumes little circuit board space and DC current, perhaps it
 would be worth opening up a discussion with RemoteRig's designer since
 Elecraft already has a close relationship with Microbit.I know rear
 panel real estate is a concern, so it won't be easy to add yet another
 connector without adversely affecting other connectivity.  Thoughts? 
 
 
 
 Paul, W9AC
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 __
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[Elecraft] Fwd: K3/K3s Ethernet Interface

[Paul Christensen]

 Gerry, we realize that.  I indicated that cooperation from Microbit is 
 necessary.  The most efficient integration would require a redesign of their 
 board as well as Electaft's boards. 
 
 There are any number of ideas that would result in better cable management 
 between RemoteRig and the K3. 
 
 Paul, W9AC 
 


 Sent from my iPhone6
 
 On Jul 19, 2015, at 6:15 PM, Gerry Hull ge...@w1ve.com wrote:
 
 What you all fail to realize is that RemoteRig is a Microbit product, not an 
 Elecraft product.  It's designed to be used with a number of radios.
 What I'd like to see is RemoteRig in another form factor, with some type of 
 high-density connector that has all the important signals.
 
 For example, why couldn't the Remoterig board be re-worked to fit on the 
 back of a K3/0 Mini?  That would be great.
 Perhaps Elecraft can work a deal with Microbit.
 
 From the RF site, a box redesign with a single high-density connector and 
 one ethernet would be great.
 
 73,
 
 Gerry, W1VE
 Remoting happily from Many K3/RemoteRig combos.
 
 
 Gerry Hull, W1VE   | Hancock, NH USA | +1-603-499-7373
 AKA: VE1RM | VY2CDX | VO1CDX | 6Y6C | 8P9RM
 
   
 
 On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 6:00 PM, Paul Christensen w...@arrl.net wrote:
 Jack,
 
 All valid points but take note of K9HZ's work as a start.  Nevertheless, 
 let's say native Ethernet control isn't worth the engineering effort.  That 
 should not preclude the integration of RemoteRig as an option into a K3/K3s.
 
 If I didn't care about the resale value of my K3 or RemoteRig, I could 
 easily turn this into a weekend construction project and be up and running 
 on Monday morning with an Ethernet cable hanging from the back of the K3.
 
 The RemoteRig board would come out of its enclosure then mount in the K3.  
 It's just a matter of adding an RJ45 port, tapping +12V, internal audio, 
 RS-232, PTT, key line, and ACC.  The tapping of RS232 and audio is not 
 trivial but it is completely manageable.
 
 While this adds little additional operational utility than it does now, it 
 significantly cleans up K3 cabling with RemoteRig.  No change is needed at 
 the client end for use with the K3 mini.  For K3 clients, a similar 
 integration could accomplished or kept as it is now with external cabling.
 
 Of course, there must be enough demand from remote users to make it 
 worthwhile as well as cooperation from Microbit.
 
 Paul, W9AC
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone6
 
  On Jul 19, 2015, at 4:56 PM, Jack Brindle jackbrin...@me.com wrote:
 
  Paul;
 
  What is your proposal for the host-side interface? Pretty much all host 
  programs these days use a serial interface. We usually use this through a 
  USB-Serial adapter or through built-in serial ports, which are rapidly 
  disappearing. To make this viable we would need drivers for all major 
  platforms that implement a serial port  driver interface to ethernet. Or, 
  the host programs will need to be modified.
 
  There is a lot of work needed to make this suggestion viable, both on the 
  host and radio sides. This is the fact same reason we still use serial 
  interfaces for our rigs instead of true USB interface.
  Put forth a good proposal and let it be considered. Without that work 
  (whoever does it), ethernet hardware isn’t very useful.
 
  - Jack, W6FB
 
  p.s., no, this isn’t a flame, but a challenge. Let’s get the whole thing 
  viable, then we will take a good look at implementing it on all sides.
 
 
  On Jul 19, 2015, at 12:24 PM, Paul Christensen w...@arrl.net wrote:
 
  This inquiry is directed to both the Elecraft leadership team as well as
  K3/K3s owners who may have an interest in native Ethernet connectivity.  
   In
  searching through the list archives, I noted that some K3 owners had
  previously expressed an interest in an Ethernet option - and some owners
  have been disappointed that the new K3s and KIO3B board does not include
  Ethernet connectivity.
 
 
 
  A bit of background: for the past few months, N4CC and I have been 
  operating
  a remote Internet station that's located near the FL/GA state line.  Our
  setup includes a K3 and RemoteRig at the remote site and either a K3 or
  K3-mini at the control locations.  Since the installation, we've 
  experienced
  almost no operating trouble and any issues that have developed are 
  managed
  remotely though direct and back-door network access points.
 
 
 
  Last week, I made some internal changes to the K3  and also added an
  external USB data interface device for RTTY.  What's apparent is that 
  cable
  management is getting way out of control.  To gain inside access to the 
  K3
  almost requires a meditation exercise before going in.  Consider that a 
  PR6
  is mounted to the back of the K3.  The rear of the K3 is an absolute 
  rat's
  nest of cabling.  With the RemoteRig and PR6, It was bad enough before 
  the
  inclusion of the external USB sound car/interface, but now it's 
  bordering on
  ridiculous.   Moreover, RemoteRig does

[Elecraft] K3/K3s Ethernet Interface

[Paul Christensen]

This inquiry is directed to both the Elecraft leadership team as well as
K3/K3s owners who may have an interest in native Ethernet connectivity.   In
searching through the list archives, I noted that some K3 owners had
previously expressed an interest in an Ethernet option - and some owners
have been disappointed that the new K3s and KIO3B board does not include
Ethernet connectivity.

 

A bit of background: for the past few months, N4CC and I have been operating
a remote Internet station that's located near the FL/GA state line.  Our
setup includes a K3 and RemoteRig at the remote site and either a K3 or
K3-mini at the control locations.  Since the installation, we've experienced
almost no operating trouble and any issues that have developed are managed
remotely though direct and back-door network access points. 

 

Last week, I made some internal changes to the K3  and also added an
external USB data interface device for RTTY.  What's apparent is that cable
management is getting way out of control.  To gain inside access to the K3
almost requires a meditation exercise before going in.  Consider that a PR6
is mounted to the back of the K3.  The rear of the K3 is an absolute rat's
nest of cabling.  With the RemoteRig and PR6, It was bad enough before the
inclusion of the external USB sound car/interface, but now it's bordering on
ridiculous.   Moreover, RemoteRig does not allow clean access to the K3's
ACC DB-15 connector for other purposes such as FSK keying.  Sure, the
connector can be opened to access pins, but it requires a wiring break-out,
leading to yet a further rat's nest of cabling.

 

To help deal with the cabling issues, I am replacing the external PR6 with
the new KXVB3 board.  Next, a KIO3B board will be added when it's available
to existing K3 owners.  That should eliminate the external sound card
interface and clear up much of the cabling mess, but not all of it.  

 

The Holy Grail is an Ethernet interface that includes (optional) integrated
RemoteRig hardware - just one interface board [e.g., KIO3E(thernet) board]
that manages K3 Ethernet connectivity with or without RemoteRig attributes.
Don't need Ethernet? Then don't get the board.  Since the RemoteRig hardware
is mature and consumes little circuit board space and DC current, perhaps it
would be worth opening up a discussion with RemoteRig's designer since
Elecraft already has a close relationship with Microbit.I know rear
panel real estate is a concern, so it won't be easy to add yet another
connector without adversely affecting other connectivity.  Thoughts? 

 

Paul, W9AC

 

 

 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RemoteRig

[Paul Christensen]

For those of you running a K3 + RemoteRig station with multiple users, this 
may be of interest.  Although we could not get the K3 Utility to communicate 
with the tower site K3 using RemoteRig's spare COM port, another list member 
suggested Win4K3 Suite software.   I can report that the software does pass 
the COM data through RemoteRig to the K3.  For remote site operations with 
multiple users,  this means each op can now save and recall their favorite 
user settings in a personal profile.  With Win4K3, all K3 settings are 
polled and saved in about ten seconds at the standard 38.4Kbps transfer 
speed.


Paul, W9AC



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RemoteRig

[Paul Christensen]

Mitch and all...

First, the term remote below refers to the tower site.  The control site is 
where the op controls the K3/0 or K3-mini.

The main issue is in trying to access the K3 Utility on the PC sitting next to 
the remote K3 while RemoteRig is connected.  We can use VNCRemote or TeamViewer 
to access K3 Utility on the remote PC.  Most importantly,  I am not trying to 
flash the K3 remotely over the Internet.   We just want communication between 
the K3 Utilty and the PC via RemoteRig's spare COM1 port.

Specifically, what I am trying to accomplish is saving/recalling the K3 
profiles with the K3 Utility so that two ops using our remote site are not 
spending ten minutes tinkering our way out of the last guy's favorite settings. 
 It would have been great if the K3 had just enough internal storage to save 
profiles, even if for just two or three users.  But since that's not the case, 
we must rely on the K3 Utility to recall the profiles.  But RemoteRig gets in 
the way because it is attached to the K3's serial connector at the remote site. 
 As mentioned before, RemoteRig does have a spare COM1 serial port, supposedly 
for this purpose and CAT control.  Here's what I've done to date.  

1) All hardware flashed to the latest versions (K3 and RemoteRigs).   I am 
using the latest version of K3 Utility and also the beta version tried;
2) A high quality FTDI USB to serial COM port adapter connects between the PC 
and the RemoteRig's serial COM1 port. The USB and is assigned COM7 on the PC;
3) The PC has been checked to ensure the latest FTDI drivers;
4) On the remote side of the RemoteRig, there's a menu, Serial Settings to 
select different communication protocols for the RemoteRig's COM1 port (the 
port attached with the USB/serial converter);
5) Opening the K3 Utility and selecting COM7 should establish communication 
between the K3 Utility and the remote K3 THROUGH RemoteRig.  But it doesn't.  
The K3 Utility keeps searching the port speed with no connection.
6) The RemoteRig manual seems to indicate it is possible to connect in such a 
way and even shows a picture detailing a device connected on RemoteRig's COM1.  

Has anyone had success in using the K3 Utility with RemoteRig connected at the 
same time?   

Paul, W9AC



-Original Message-
From: Mitch Wolfson, DJØQN / K7DX [mailto:dj...@gmx.net] 
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 10:40 AM
To: Paul Christensen; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3  RemoteRig

I was in Dayton when you sent this and a bit behind my mails. I believe I read 
most replies, so I will only answer the ones I do not believe were already 
answered (apologies for any duplication):

- Never turn monitor (CW or SSB) on while running remote. Even the slightest 
latency will drive you crazy. Use the RRC's sidetone for CW and there is no 
solution for SSB.

- You can change the RRC's CW sidetone volume by going into the control RRC's 
menu CW settings and change Side tone -db to a more reasonable level.

- Only one can access a K3 at a time. The other parties will receive a busy 
tone when attempting a connect. This will not disturb the other user, so trying 
it won't hurt anyone. We have implemented chat and logging systems to let us 
know who is using the station, there are a lot of solutions on the market.

The RemoteRig Forum at http://www.remoterig.com/forum/index.php is a wealth of 
information for anyone using RemoteRig.

73,
Mitch DJ0QN

Mitch Wolfson
DJØQN / K7DX
Neubiberger Str. 21, 85640 Putzbrunn
Skype: mitchwo - Home:+49 89 32152700 - Mobile:+49 172 8374436
Echolink: 3001 - IRLP: 5378

On 17.05.2015 04:08, Paul Christensen wrote:
 Still getting used to a recently installed RemoteRig used with my K3 
 and K3-mini.  A few questions:

 1) Since the K3's RS-232 port is wired directly to RemoteRig, is there 
 a way to access control of the RS-232 port for firmware upgrades, 
 SDR-IQ control, etc.?  As it is, LP-Bridge doesn’t appear to apply 
 here since the K3 is not connected as a PC COM port;

 2) Any means to monitor mic audio on the K3 mini while transmitting?  
 I've tried bringing up MON audio, but nothing heard.  I thought 
 perhaps the K3 mini would inject local mic monitor audio into the 
 receive audio.

 3) K3 mini speaker audio is extremely loud and the CW sidetone is even 
 louder.  However, receive audio and sidetone in headphones is 
 excellent. It's as if there's a gain structure problem just ahead of 
 the speaker amp. Any way to easily reduce speaker amp gain after the 
 AF control?

 4) Consider a situation where two K3 minis are each trying to access a
 K3 at the remote site.  When one of the K3 minis connects to the 
 remote site, will the other K3-mini's display read busy or in some 
 way let the user know that the K3 is being tied up by another user?
 Or, must we rely on the green PWR/connect light on RemoteRig?

 Tnx!

 Paul, W9AC

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[Elecraft] Remote Access to P3

[Paul Christensen]

I am looking at ways to bring back P3 panadapter information over the Internet. 
 Programs like VNC, Teamviewer, etc. appear to limit screen refresh to about 
once per second.  That results in a very choppy display that's almost 
useless.

Is there a means to bring back near-real-time P3 screen information over the 
Internet?  Since the output of the P3SVGA is designed to feed a video monitor, 
perhaps we could use a device that converts the P3SVGA output into a format 
suitable for streaming.  

Anyone know of such a device that's also bandwidth conscious over an Internet 
connection?

Paul, W9AC



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Re: [Elecraft] Remote Access to P3

[Paul Christensen]

Just compared Real VNC with TeamViewer (TV) over local LAN.  (TV) is faster 
and pretty much usable.  Not so for Real VNC.


Looks like the AverMedia Broadcaster video capture card (per Tom's input) is 
the best option although for the price, I'm not sure value is there.  I can 
see why some folks are opting for simple web cams.  The reality is that 
options are definitely limited.


Thanks to all for the feedback.

Paul, W9AC

- Original Message - 
From: Tom Blahovici tom...@videotron.ca

To: Paul Christensen w...@arrl.net
Cc: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2015 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Remote Access to P3



Hi
TeamViewer works very well. If you are only getting 1 frame a second then 
something is very wrong or are you running at 56k_-)?

Tom
va2fsq.com

On Feb 14, 2015 10:23 AM, Paul Christensen w...@arrl.net wrote:


I am looking at ways to bring back P3 panadapter information over the 
Internet. Programs like VNC, Teamviewer, etc. appear to limit screen 
refresh to about once per second. That results in a very choppy display 
that's almost useless.


Is there a means to bring back near-real-time P3 screen information over 
the Internet? Since the output of the P3SVGA is designed to feed a video 
monitor, perhaps we could use a device that converts the P3SVGA output 
into a format suitable for streaming.


Anyone know of such a device that's also bandwidth conscious over an 
Internet connection?


Paul, W9AC



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Re: [Elecraft] Remote Access to P3

[Paul Christensen]

Had a thought - I already own an SDR-IQ with SpecrtaVue software.  Tried it 
with TeamViewer and it works well.  No expensive video capture card needed.


SpectraVue has basic point and click frequency change.  Options are not 
quite as integrated when compared to the P3, but perfectly adequate for our 
remote station.


Paul, W9AC 



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Re: [Elecraft] Balun at input or output of tuner

[Paul Christensen]

Dean's example is still valid.  By placing the CM Choke at the wrong 
distance of 20 feet from the tuner, the 3,000 ohm Z presented at the balun 
in addition to the extra 20 feet of line can create substantial mismatch 
loss (i.e., additional loss due to VSWR).  The choke simply adds three feet 
of coax for a total of 23 feet from the tuner.  If the balanced line were 
dragged into the shack to reach the tuner output, loss is much less and the 
remaining loss is the result of the severe mismatch and heating occurring 
over just 3 feet of cable instead of 23 feet.  Of course, the tuner will 
have some loss of its own that we haven't considered.  But the problem is 
the extra coax length under a high mismatch conditions -- and not that a CM 
choke is present in the line, notwithstanding the three feet of coax used in 
its windings.

Prior authors have focused almost entirely on the CM choke's line balance 
and common mode reactance attributes and not systematic loss.  So, gulp if 
placement of the CM choke at the tuner input results in no better balance, 
but no worse balance, then clearly, system loss in many situations (e.g., 
multi-band dipoles and loops) will be less and that configuration may be 
preferred.  OTOH, if balance suffers, then one must look at whether loss or 
line balance or choke heating is more important, depending on the mismatch 
magnitude appearing at a CM choke located at the tuner output -- or at some 
wrong distance away from the tuner.

Paul, W9AC

- Original Message - 
From: Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com
To: Dean Straw n...@arrl.net
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2011 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Balun at input or output of tuner


 Dean,

 The last two paragraphs of your writeup do not seem relevant to the
 discussion of balun (CM choke) at the input or output  Those paragraphs
 deal with operating coax at a very high 60:1 SWR, and neither support
 nor agree with the other points.

 Consider the following:  A situation where the windowsill connection is
 20 feet away from the tuner output.  The balun has the same loss no
 matter where it is placed, so lets assume it is placed at the output.

 Now, consider that the connection between the tuner output and the
 windowsill is with 20 feet of RG-213.  The balanced line is connected
 directly to the coax (no balun).  By the analysis presented, the loss
 will be exactly the same as with the balun connected at the windowsill
 end of the coax.

 Both conditions are electrically the same (If that point is arguable,
 then the balun at the tuner input is just as arguable).

 If we can extend this argument, we would be able to conclude that it
 makes no difference on a coax fed antenna whether the balun is placed at
 the antenna or at the tuner output - no matter whether the feedline is
 coax or balanced line.  Oh, yes, both the coax or balanced line must be
 isolated and run with the same rules normally applied to balanced line.
 The point is that while theory says it makes no difference, it is
 impossible to achieve that perfect isolation, so the argument falls apart.

 Because most would not consider connecting a balanced line to coax
 without an intervening balun because we have been taught that we must
 preserve balance in order for things to be correct.
 The fallacy I see with the  balun at the input vs. balun at the output
 argument is that with the balun on the input, everything that follows
 must be perfectly isolated from ground - and that is difficult to
 achieve when all physical things are considered - if there are *any*
 strays, it defeats the principle of perfect isolation.  That is also
 what makes my example of the 20 feet of coax at the balanced output of a
 tuner not a practical consideration - one cannot easily achieve equal
 coupling of the center conductor and shield if there are any surrounding
 objects.  That fact makes the unbalanced tuner with an input balun not
 practical  because that perfect isolation is just as (or more) difficult
 and expensive to achieve than it would be to implement a balanced network.

 73,
 Don W3FPR


 On 12/12/2011 3:38 PM, Dean Straw wrote:
 While we're at it, let's look at the potential loss due to line
 losses at a CM choke balun placed in the wrong place in an antenna 
 system.
 Assume the common scenario where a balanced antenna is fed with open-wire
 transmission line to a 1:1 common-mode choke balun located at the shack
 window. From the balun at the window the ham uses, say, a 20-foot section 
 of
 RG-213 to the antenna tuner (which in this case is an unbalanced tuning
 network). Assume again that the CM choke balun uses three feet of RG-213
 wound on the appropriate ferrite donuts to achieve the target common-mode
 impedance of 5000 ohms so that common-mode currents are choked off 
 properly.

 The total length of RG-213 is now 23 feet. Again, we'll present the
 balun at the windowsill with a load of 3000 ohms. The overall
 

Re: [Elecraft] Balun at input or output of tuner

[Paul Christensen]

 This is 41.2 W per foot
 and at that level the RG-213 would get very warm and could even melt,
 especially if the choke were confined in a small box with no circulation 
 of
 cooling air.

If a balun of like reactance were instead wound in bifilar fashion using two 
parallel wires, rather than coax, wouldn't additional loss due to mismatch 
be less when compared to coaxial-wound types, assuming that the bifilar 
winding choke offers lower matched and mis-matched loss, much like open 
lines?  However, the bifilar winding is not really like a wide 
conductor-separated transmission line so, perhaps mismatch losses are less 
than the same length of RG-213, but more than open or balanced lines.  Most 
of the coaxial-wound baluns I've seen of the W1JR type, have been designed 
where the output Z much more closely matches the characteristic Z of the 
coax used for the winding (e.g., CM chokes used as line isolators between 
the transmitter and amp, or monoband dipoles at the feed-point).

I've never seen a coaxial-wound balun at a tuner output (within the tuner), 
only bifilar types -- although I know so-called remote baluns exist that 
do use coaxial turns.   Your example of the remote balun shows some 
startling, but realistic loss when using a tuner and traditional wire 
antennas for multiband HF operation.  If the losses are really that bad, 
then it's the tuner that should be remoted, not just the output balun.  So, 
it would be an interesting exercise to look at the mis-matched losses under 
the two Z extremes when using a bifilar type and use this as a closer 
approximation of loss for current choke/baluns placed inside the tuner, at 
the output terminals.

Paul, W9AC

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Re: [Elecraft] 4:1 balun

[Paul Christensen]

 It seems that many Hams considered the 4:1 ratio some sort of magic 
 number,
 when all it was intended to do was provide a good transfer between 300 
 ohms
 and 50 ohms.

I just modeled a typical 20m folded twin-lead dipole using 4Nec2 and TLD 
software.  Had never tried that one before.

The antenna feed-point Z at a half-wave height (33 FT) above average ground 
computes to 291-j7.7.  That's surprisingly close to 300 ohms resistive. 
With TLD software, I then coupled the feed-point with 300-ohm twin-lead 
line.  Finally, I varied line length between 0 and 1/2 electrical wavelength 
and watched the resulting Z at the line input.  Z always stays between 290 
and 310 ohms with very little reactance.  Total system loss never exceeds 
0.25 dB.  The 300-ohm VSWR stays near 1.05:1 and not surprisingly, the 
50-ohm VSWR stays near 6:1.  While a 4:1 balun can probably result in 
efficient transfer of power into the line from a modern 50-ohm output Z 
transceiver, I think a 6:1 ratio current balun would be a better choice 
under these circumstances, assuming one wanted to avoid an ATU at (or 
within) the rig altogether.

No wonder this antenna was so popular.  The antenna and line all use the 
same inexpensive 300-ohm twin lead material.  The match at the antenna is so 
good that line VSWR (300) and loss is negligible.

Paul, W9AC

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Re: [Elecraft] 4:1 balun

[Paul Christensen]

 The down side of the 300 ohm twin lead folded dipole is that 300 ohm twin 
 lead usually is made from small wire and not mechanically very strong, so it 
 is not durable for fixed stations with varying weather conditions and the 
 wire is too small for anything but low power.  With either the 300 ohm twin 
 lead or a folded dipole fabricated from #14 or heavier conductors a 4:1 balun 
 is needed to tune well with a 50 ohm output or to transition to coax.  Then 
 it is about as good as a well made dipole.

I think the mechanical issues can be managed.  Generally, there's also less 
opportunity for water ingress than a coaxial line termination, unless more 
complex measures are taken for water-proofing.  I've got new respect for the 
folded dipole (FD).  The bandwidth of the FD is about 40% better between 2:1 
VSWR points than a straight wire dipole.  This is due primarily to an 
effectively larger radiating conductor size (rather than end stub effects), 
wire size remaining constant.   For 80m-75m operating, the FD would be a good 
choice among the die-hard I only use resonant antenna ops.  For K2 or K3 
owners, any common ratio current balun ratio would work reasonably well if 
equipped with the internal ATU.  If no ATU, then a 6:1 current balun would do 
the best job of transferring power into the line. 

The big drawback is that the FD won't work efficiently on even harmonics, even 
with a tuner at the shack end of the line.  But for mono-band performance, 
cost, ease of construction, it seems tough to beat.

Paul, W9AC
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Re: [Elecraft] 4:1 balun

[Paul Christensen]

 How does modeling with 450 Ohm window lead work out?  That would suggest
 a 9:1 balun.

Someone earlier (K2VCO, I believe) cautioned against falling into the trap 
of believing that the characteristic Z of the line is always the impedance 
actually present at the end of the line.  The Z seen at the line end is 
determined by several factors, including the magnitude of the line-to-load 
(mis)match, type of feedline, and feedline length.  For multi-band wire 
antennas, the line input Z can range from less than 10 ohms with some short 
antennas to over 5K ohm.  These numbers appear at the line input.  Just 
because it may be 450-ohm line does not mean that's the target Z to tune 
and match.  The only time 450-ohm line presents a 450-ohm impedance at the 
line input regardless of distance, is when the characteristic Z of the line 
equals the load Z and line loss is small.

In the case of the folded dipole for mono-band operation, the antenna 
feed-point Z can easily be made 300 ohms with little or no reactance with a 
bit of antenna length pruning and perhaps slight height change.  Feeding it 
only with a 300-ohm characteristic Z line makes best sense, since the Z at 
the line input, regardless of line length is going to be near 300-ohms at 
the cut operating frequency, with little reactance.

Paul, W9AC
 

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Re: [Elecraft] KAT500 update

[Paul Christensen]

Vic,

Deja vu -- Seems like we had just discussed this on the AMPS list!  In this 
case, I'm with you on keeping the balun external to the tuner.  That gives 
the user an option of installing the balun of their choice immediately after 
the tuner, or remotely through a short section of high-quality coax to join 
the balanced line.  It's useful in cases where the shack is adjacent to an 
outside wall and the balun can be hung adjacent to a window or other 
opening.  A symmetrical tuner would still be preferred for balanced lines 
where the balun *should* be placed at the tuner input.

It would be an interesting exercise to compare the production cost and 
resulting sales price of a switched unbalanced L versus a symmetrical 
tuner with a balun on the input but with switched, fixed components.

A few design-related problems: (1) ability to switch between balanced and 
unbalanced lines with a symmetrical tuner while keeping efficiency high and 
cost low; and (2) any commercial version would need to be offered so that it 
could accommodate a line input Z range of not only 50-5K ohm but also Z 
values less than 50 ohms for folks with short antennas.  In the case of a 
high-pass design, that requires switched reversal of the shunt C so that it 
can be placed on either side of the balanced inductance.  And, that's where 
it could get messy with cost and component layout to keep efficiency high.

After building a motorized AG6K tuner, I realized that the complex vacuum 
relay arrangement could have been omitted.  If reasonably full-size 
antennas are used, it's tough to conceive a condition when using 600-ohm 
line where the input Z drops below 50-ohms - even with odd quarter-wave 
multiples.  After the tuner was built, I worked out several dipole and loop 
models using 4Nec2 and TLW software.  Change of bands, frequency, and line 
length all resulted in reasonable input Z.  Another factor when operating 
into low Z line inputs -- the lower the line input Z, the greater the 
importance of component Q to keep efficiency high, especially on the low 
bands.  So, now there's a bunch of expensive switching components that will 
never be used since I don't operate with short antennas, at least not at 
home.  Many folks wouldn't have the choice -- and thus the need to offer a 
one size fits all type of tuner.  Probably the best approach is an 
unbalanced tuner for coax and output balun feeds, and if there's enough 
demand, a separate symmetrical tuner just for balanced lines.

It sure is nice being able to toss these ideas around and not worry about 
any financial risk, unlike the manufacturers!

Paul, W9AC

- Original Message - 
From: Vic K2VCO k2vco@gmail.com
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 12:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KAT500 update


I t's been shown conclusively that an unbalanced 'floating' tuner with a 
balun on the
 input does not provide better balance than one with the balun on the 
 output. Yes, I know
 that there is such a tuner in the ARRL handbook and Alpha is manufacturing 
 one. But the
 math doesn't lie. So unless Elecraft wanted to use a balanced network --  
 which would make
 the tuner MUCH more expensive -- I would prefer one without a balun. Then 
 those who do not
 use balanced lines would not have to pay for the balun.

 On 12/8/2011 8:58 AM, Oliver Johns wrote:
 Wayne,

 When I talked to you briefly at the 2010 Pacificon, you seemed to say 
 that the KAT500 would be a floating-L design.  That is, it would 
 contain an unbalanced L network, but that network and its circuit board 
 would be floating and not connected to the metal enclosure.  You said a 
 balun would be put at the 50 ohm end, feeding a SO239 connector for the 
 coax to the rig.  The floating-L could then be connected to balanced 
 lines, or to unbalanced ones by tying one side of it to the case at the 
 antenna end.

 Now it seems that you are talking about a totally unbalanced tuner, with 
 no provision for balanced antenna feeders.  Do you mean to add an 
 external balun on the *antenna* side of the tuner?   Surely not.  That 
 seems an inherently bad idea for many balanced lines.  The impedance 
 there will be unpredictable, hence the need for the tuner.  Not a good 
 place for a balun IMHO.  But if you put the balun on the 50 ohm end where 
 it belongs, then the whole enclosure will be tied to one side of the 
 balanced line, which will likely unbalance it.

 What happened?  I had hoped to put the KAT500 in a weatherproof box of my 
 own fabrication and use it between a balanced line to the antenna and a 
 coax feed back to the rig.  It could live out near the antenna, where it 
 belongs.

 73,

 Oliver Johns
 W6ODJ


 On Dec 7, 2011, at 5:22 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

 We originally had two antenna jacks on the KAT500, with one of them
 switchable between balanced and unbalanced.

 Recently we decided that a third antenna jack would provide greater
 utility overall. (In my case, 

Re: [Elecraft] K3 mush example?

[Paul Christensen]

Better still -- how about a comparison of audio clips between the K3 and a 
competing transceiver that is seemingly unaffected by the problem?  If not 
from this past 160m contest, then perhaps from the forthcoming Stew Perry or 
CQ 160m contests.

Paul, W9AC

- Original Message - 
From: Don Putnick don_n...@yahoo.com
To: Elecraft List elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 11:52 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 mush example?


Hi all,

As a mere mortal and a relatively new K3 owner, I would find it really 
eductational if someone could post an audio clip of what's being discussed.

Thanks and 73,
Don NA6Z
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 hardware AGC experiment shows promise

[Paul Christensen]

Wayne,

For those of us ordering the cap through Mouser or DigiKey, can you reply 
with the SMD/SMT cap dimension code (e.g., 0603, 1608, etc.)

Tnx!

Paul, W9AC

- Original Message - 
From: Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com
To: Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2011 8:50 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 hardware AGC experiment shows promise


 Hi all,

 The K3's hardware AGC time constant is a compromise between recovery
 time and IMD due to modulation of the loop. C238, on the bottom of the
 RF board near the front, sets this time constant.

 We did a little experiment today (thanks to Tree, N6TR) that suggests
 increasing the size of C238 substantially might be a worthy change. In
 the case of signals just large enough to tickle the hardware AGC, the
 first IMD products were reduced by something like 18 dB. This will
 also increase the recovery time for very strong signals, so the jury
 is out on whether this is OK for the average user.

 For the experimentally inclined: C238 is easy to get to; just remove
 bottom cover A (the front half). C238 is a large-ish surface mount
 capacitor nestled between two 20-pin connectors. The present value is
 0.1 uF. Tree tacked a 1-uF cap on top of it. Then he tacked another
 one on, which improved things by another few dB.

 Some ops have mentioned problems with signals much lower than this,
 which has always baffled me. But I got to thinking: Suppose you're
 listening to a bunch of S4-S5 signals in your DSP passband. You could
 have larger signals outside the DSP, but inside the crystal filter. Or
 you could have clicks from strong signals that get inside the crystal
 filter but you can't hear because you're using a narrow DSP filter. Or
 you could have noise spikes. Any of these could ping the hardware AGC
 just enough to cause IMD between all of the signals in the passband.

 My point is that increasing the loop time constant could have a more
 general benefit when a band is busy and/or noisy.

 Let me know if you try this and whether the results are of interest.
 (I live in an RF-free zone, it seems, so I can never recreate the
 problem here. Frustrating!)

 73,
 Wayne
 N6KR



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Re: [Elecraft] CW transmitting - any clicks?

[Paul Christensen]

Like the K3, the Ameritron QSK-5 uses PIN diodes to perform the T/R 
function.  I hear the same tick from the QSK-5, only louder.  Because 
there's a relay inside the QSK-5, some ops have come to the conclusion that 
the relay is generating the tick.  It's not.  The relay is used only for 
bypass purposes.  To prove this, I removed the relay from the unit and the 
tick remained.  As best I can tell, the tick noise is made as the diodes are 
biased.  Now, why that would happen needs to by explained by a semiconductor 
subject matter expert.  Some of the noise may be amplified by the manner in 
which the diodes are mounted -- much like the transfer of sound from a 
string bridge to the top plate of a violin.

Paul, W9AC

- Original Message - 
From: Jessie Oberreuter joberreu-elecr...@moselle.com
To: Graham Smith g3zodelecr...@googlemail.com
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 5:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW transmitting - any clicks?



  The last time this came up, Wayne theorized that it might be the
 sound of slight mechanical adjustments in the relays as power is
 redistributed.  They aren't being switched, but the coil voltages may be
 changing slightly, inducing an audible modulation in the electrically
 shiftable parts.  Hunting it down was on his rainy day list :).


 On Fri, 2 Dec 2011, Graham Smith wrote:

 My K2 emits a very faint tick sound at the end of each dot and dash - I
 can hear it if I put my ear near the back of the K3.
 This happens using the internal keyer and a straight key, although it's
 extremely hard to hear using a straight key as the mechanical sound from 
 the
 key itself masks it even when releasing it very gently.
 It's not coming from the speaker.

 Have other people noticed this?
 I wonder what is causing it?  It does this even with the power level set 
 to
 zero and I have VOX+QSK set.

 73 de Graham G3ZOD FISTS #8385
 http://www.fists.co.uk

 -Original Message-
 Steve,

 The K2, K1, KX1 and K3 all have electronic Transmit/Receive switching, 
 and I
 would expect the KX3 will as well, so there will be no relay clicking 
 noise.

 73,
 Don W3FPR

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 MCU 4.47 / DSP 2.73 BETA RELEASE

[Paul Christensen]

 Note: Elecraft will be offering RemoteRig radio remote control systems
and interface cabling for the K3 on our web site order form shortly.'

Eric,

Any long-terms plans to offer a K3 panel interface (similar to the look of 
the KX3) to interface with RemoteRig?  Tnx!

Paul, W9AC 

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[Elecraft] K3 v. TS-590

[Paul Christensen]

Just picked up a TS-590 to evaluate against the K3 and ADAT ADT-200A.  First 
impression is that build quality and panel layout is exceptional.  However, 
things that do not bother other ops, bother me a lot.  For example, plugging 
in headphones into the TS-590 results in audible hiss.  Activating 
noise-cancellation on my Sennheiser headphones (to quiet down room noise), 
results in even more hiss -- something that's not a problem with the K3.

QSK:  It doesn't exist with the TS-590.  Sure, it's called Fast-Break-In, 
but of all the Kenwoods I've tried (TS-950/850/870/2000/480/570), it's the 
slowest of the bunch.  Audio between keyed elements is lost at about 15 WPM. 
T/R switching is smooth, however.

Strange IF/Audio DSP relationship.  In SSB mode, as the DSP is opened up 
past 2.8K, the IF keeps opening, but the audio response stays relatively 
fixed.  In other words, by opening up DSP, the audio response stays 
relatively constant and only allows for more adjacent QRM.  I'll take the 
adjacent QRM, but please open up the audio commensurate with the IF.

I was going to add a Clifton Labs buffer amp to at least get a pan display 
into my SDR-IQ on the down-conversion bands.  If the '590 didn't have these 
fatal flaws, I would proceed. As it is, it's just not worth it to me. 
Sorry, Jack.  I promise a another sale in the future!  Your product deserves 
better.

Paul, W9AC



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 v. TS-590

[Paul Christensen]

One area where I think the TS-590 shines is in Kenwood's use of their 
long-established NR1 and NR2 algorithms -- still the best I've used in any 
transceiver.  Kenwood has used these two algorithms in the TS-2000, TS-480, and 
possibly a few others.  To me, NR2 on CW is more effective than using an APF 
filter, although it appears to be a form of combined noise-reduction and APF.  
Whatever they're doing, the algorithms are very effective. 

Paul, W9AC

  - Original Message - 
  From: WILLIS COOKE 
  To: Paul Christensen ; elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 10:46 AM
  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 v. TS-590


  Very interesting report Paul!  I would have expected better from the TS-590.  
I would be interested in a comparison between the TS-590 and the TS-480.  I own 
a K3, TS-480 and TS-850.  The K3 is my favorite by far, but it is not so 
superior to the TS-480 that I don't like the 480 for mobile where the split 
architecture is a big advantage for me.  I have not had the 480 long enough to 
completely evaluate it, but at least I don't throw rocks at it when I switch 
from the K3.  Some of my favorite things about the K3 are how well the QSK and 
VOX work.  I would not use either with the TS-850 because the relay made too 
much noise with QSK and the VOX setup was too touchy to use during contesting.  
I used a foot switch with the TS-850 when contesting.  The K3 switching is so 
good that I don't hear anything at all when using QSK.  I also found by 
accident when I started using the K3 that semi-break in with a short delay is 
so much like QSK that it took me a while to realize that I wa
 s not operating QSK.

  I guess most of us never tire of singing the Elecraft praise about the very 
fine products.  Thanks Elecraft and Thanks Paul!

  Willis 'Cookie' Cooke 
  K5EWJ  Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart

  From: Paul Christensen w...@arrl.net
  To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:12 AM
  Subject: [Elecraft] K3 v. TS-590

  Just picked up a TS-590 to evaluate against the K3 and ADAT ADT-200A.  First 
  impression is that build quality and panel layout is exceptional.  However, 
  things that do not bother other ops, bother me a lot.  For example, plugging 
  in headphones into the TS-590 results in audible hiss.  Activating 
  noise-cancellation on my Sennheiser headphones (to quiet down room noise), 
  results in even more hiss -- something that's not a problem with the K3.

  QSK:  It doesn't exist with the TS-590.  Sure, it's called Fast-Break-In, 
  but of all the Kenwoods I've tried (TS-950/850/870/2000/480/570), it's the 
  slowest of the bunch.  Audio between keyed elements is lost at about 15 WPM. 
  T/R switching is smooth, however.

  Strange IF/Audio DSP relationship.  In SSB mode, as the DSP is opened up 
  past 2.8K, the IF keeps opening, but the audio response stays relatively 
  fixed.  In other words, by opening up DSP, the audio response stays 
  relatively constant and only allows for more adjacent QRM.  I'll take the 
  adjacent QRM, but please open up the audio commensurate with the IF.

  I was going to add a Clifton Labs buffer amp to at least get a pan display 
  into my SDR-IQ on the down-conversion bands.  If the '590 didn't have these 
  fatal flaws, I would proceed. As it is, it's just not worth it to me. 
  Sorry, Jack.  I promise a another sale in the future!  Your product deserves 
  better.

  Paul, W9AC



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Re: [Elecraft] High power tuner

[Paul Christensen]

 An example of how the price of a tuner can grow astronomically with
 power level.
 At what point does it make more sense to spend the same $$ for antennas
 which don't require a tuner?

For some of us where only one HF antenna is feasible, it may make sense to 
put all the money in the tuner and *not* the antenna.  For example, I've 
gotten away with an 80m dipole at 60-ft in my gated community, only due to 
the natural antenna supports: pine trees.  For me, the optimal solution for 
80m-10m coverage, consists of a remote-controlled, symmetrical tuner built 
in a WX-proof enclosure and located at the base of an open feeder line. 
This offers me minimum system loss, minimum RFI leakage to my transmission 
line, and all band coverage.  Sure, I have no control over maximum lobes and 
minimum nulls at higher frequencies, but given the QTH constrains, it made 
sense to put all the money into a truly balanced tuner and nearly zero cost 
in the antenna.  Through 4Nec2 modeling and TLD, my antenna system losses 
are very low and in all cases, exceeds the performance of resonant mono-band 
dipoles fed with LMR-400.  My 600-ohm line length is optimized for all bands 
using an N2PK VNA.

The new RF Concepts tuner would not work well for me.  It's an unbalanced 
C-L-C design with a CM choke input, similar in design with several Palstar 
tuners, only with much more rugged components than what Palstar provides. 
W9CF, W7EL, and W8JI have analyzed a current choke placed at the input to a 
C-L-C tuner and have concluded that placement at the input is not as 
effective for maintaining line balance as a balun placed at the tuner's 
output.  The exception being if the CM choke is placed at the input of a 
symmetrical, balanced tuner (e.g., AG6K type).  My tuner is of this type and 
can be seen on my QRZ.com page.

Read through the eHam reviews and see just how gullible we are when it comes 
to tuner evaluation.  Nearly all accolades are based on: (1) the ability of 
the tuner to achieve an input VSWR of 1:1; (2) pretty layout; and (3) 
component size.  None of these factors tell us about the tuner's efficiency. 
When a tuner needs it own cooling and ventilation system to function, that 
should throw up red warning flags.

The new RF Concepts tuner has switched, 8pF to 800 pF output C.  Although 
better than most commercial tuners, it would have been even better to at 
least double that amount so long as minimum C is maintained through high 
isolation switched C.  The real *big* unknown with the new tuner is coil Q 
over its entire range.  I would like to see a Q plot of the coil mounted in 
the metal enclosure.  That's a critical piece of evidence in order to 
evaluate the tuner's efficiency, especially with low-Z line terminations. 
With both input and out C being vacuum types, I would expect high-Q for the 
C components.  I'm not too concerned about a tuner's ability to tune and 
match low-Z loads.  For base station operation, there are few combinations 
of full size wire antennas that place a low-Z at the line input, no matter 
the line length.  If I'm dealing with low-Z transmission line inputs, then 
its an antenna I probably don't want in the first place. For portable and 
mobile installations,  that a wholly different matter.

Finally, the new RF Concepts tuner has a slick Smith chart display on the 
front panel.  Only, the charting shows the Z at the input of the tuner which 
is of very limited value.  Since the input is always tuned and matched for 
50+j0, even the simple Monimatch circuit is sufficient for that purpose. 
So, it's nice eye candy but I see nearly no value in the display.

Paul, W9AC



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Re: [Elecraft] High power tuner

[Paul Christensen]

Looking at the RF Concepts simplified schematic diagram, the directional 
coupler appears to remain active when the tuner is in bypass.  So, as long 
as the Smith chart feature works in bypass, it would definitely provide some 
useful information about the line input Z within the limits of the 
directional coupler accuracy.

Paul, W9AC

- Original Message - 
From: Paul Christensen w...@arrl.net
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] High power tuner


 An example of how the price of a tuner can grow astronomically with
 power level.
 At what point does it make more sense to spend the same $$ for antennas
 which don't require a tuner?

 For some of us where only one HF antenna is feasible, it may make sense to
 put all the money in the tuner and *not* the antenna.  For example, I've
 gotten away with an 80m dipole at 60-ft in my gated community, only due to
 the natural antenna supports: pine trees.  For me, the optimal solution 
 for
 80m-10m coverage, consists of a remote-controlled, symmetrical tuner built
 in a WX-proof enclosure and located at the base of an open feeder line.
 This offers me minimum system loss, minimum RFI leakage to my transmission
 line, and all band coverage.  Sure, I have no control over maximum lobes 
 and
 minimum nulls at higher frequencies, but given the QTH constrains, it made
 sense to put all the money into a truly balanced tuner and nearly zero 
 cost
 in the antenna.  Through 4Nec2 modeling and TLD, my antenna system losses
 are very low and in all cases, exceeds the performance of resonant 
 mono-band
 dipoles fed with LMR-400.  My 600-ohm line length is optimized for all 
 bands
 using an N2PK VNA.

 The new RF Concepts tuner would not work well for me.  It's an unbalanced
 C-L-C design with a CM choke input, similar in design with several Palstar
 tuners, only with much more rugged components than what Palstar provides.
 W9CF, W7EL, and W8JI have analyzed a current choke placed at the input to 
 a
 C-L-C tuner and have concluded that placement at the input is not as
 effective for maintaining line balance as a balun placed at the tuner's
 output.  The exception being if the CM choke is placed at the input of a
 symmetrical, balanced tuner (e.g., AG6K type).  My tuner is of this type 
 and
 can be seen on my QRZ.com page.

 Read through the eHam reviews and see just how gullible we are when it 
 comes
 to tuner evaluation.  Nearly all accolades are based on: (1) the ability 
 of
 the tuner to achieve an input VSWR of 1:1; (2) pretty layout; and (3)
 component size.  None of these factors tell us about the tuner's 
 efficiency.
 When a tuner needs it own cooling and ventilation system to function, that
 should throw up red warning flags.

 The new RF Concepts tuner has switched, 8pF to 800 pF output C.  Although
 better than most commercial tuners, it would have been even better to at
 least double that amount so long as minimum C is maintained through high
 isolation switched C.  The real *big* unknown with the new tuner is coil Q
 over its entire range.  I would like to see a Q plot of the coil mounted 
 in
 the metal enclosure.  That's a critical piece of evidence in order to
 evaluate the tuner's efficiency, especially with low-Z line terminations.
 With both input and out C being vacuum types, I would expect high-Q for 
 the
 C components.  I'm not too concerned about a tuner's ability to tune and
 match low-Z loads.  For base station operation, there are few combinations
 of full size wire antennas that place a low-Z at the line input, no matter
 the line length.  If I'm dealing with low-Z transmission line inputs, then
 its an antenna I probably don't want in the first place. For portable and
 mobile installations,  that a wholly different matter.

 Finally, the new RF Concepts tuner has a slick Smith chart display on the
 front panel.  Only, the charting shows the Z at the input of the tuner 
 which
 is of very limited value.  Since the input is always tuned and matched for
 50+j0, even the simple Monimatch circuit is sufficient for that purpose.
 So, it's nice eye candy but I see nearly no value in the display.

 Paul, W9AC



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Re: [Elecraft] High power tuner

[Paul Christensen]

 I was surprised to see this from Alpha, whom I would have expected to know 
 better.

The identical design (less automated functions) can seen in recent issues of 
the ARRL Antenna Book  For example, see 20th Ed., pp. 25/15 - 25/19 and 
titled High-Power ARRL Antenna Tuner for Balanced or Unbalanced Lines. 
Even output C is the same at 800 pF max.

Paul, W9AC 

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Re: [Elecraft] High power tuner

[Paul Christensen]

 Google W9CF for an explanation of why a choke balun works and why is
 matters not if it's on the input or output of a tuner except for 
 convience.

What W9CF said was this:

As noted by Roy Lewallen, W7EL,[2] putting a choke balun on the input of an 
unbalanced tuner to drive a balanced line is useless. It introduces a 
``hot'' tuner case which must be isolated with no benefit over putting the 
balun on the output.

Introducing a hot chassis full of CM current isn't trivial.

Paul, W9AC
 

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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Remote tuner, vertical, and K3 help needed

[Paul Christensen]

 I would suggest moving the new tuner back into your shack where you can 
 try
 doing a tune with your rig and be able to see what the tuner is actually
 doing.

A few well-conducted measurements are worth a thousand expert opinions.  As 
suggested by Rich, N5ZC, he should consider placement of an ATU at the base 
of the vertical for the reasons cited by Owen, VK1OD:

http://vk1od.net/antenna/multibandunloadedvertical/

VK1OD first examined systematic loss of a 33 ft vertical where the ATU is at 
the transmitter (e.g., within the K3).  See Fig. 1  2.  To increase 
multiband radiation resistance, he then modeled the popular 43 vertical with 
an ATU moved to the antenna's base.  See Fig. 5.  The system loss difference 
is huge across the HF spectrum.

Phil, AD5X has also analyzed the 43 footer for use on 160m/80m.  His method 
seems to be effective for those bands.

I'm no fan of 43 ft verticals, but absent using open line to the antenna's 
base, feeding low-loss coax to an ATU located at the vertical's base is the 
only way to ensure good system efficiency.  Same with a 31-33 ft vertical if 
it was going to be used for multiband operation.

Paul, W9AC
 

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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Remote tuner, vertical, and K3 help needed

[Paul Christensen]

 Or even simply replace the antenna with the dummy load to make sure the
 tuner actually works remotely.  It seems to me that some basic trouble
 shooting here might possibly supplant a whole lot of conjecture.

I agree with Dave.  Disconnect the coax from the MFJ ATU.  Terminate the 
line with a 50-ohm load.  Look at the input end with your MFJ analyzer and 
the K3's SWR meter.  If all checks out, then reactivate the ATU and place 
the 50-ohm load at the output of the MFJ ATU and invoke the autotune 
function.  In both cases, SWR should read reasonably close to 1:1, and Z 
measured on the MFJ analyzer (if it reads more than just SWR), should be 
close to 50 ohms.  Probably stating the obvious, but also check to ensure 
that the unit is really being powered by +12V to +15V and that regulation is 
good (low voltage drop) during the tune sequence.

Paul, W9AC

 

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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 vs FT817 - how do the insidedimensions compare?

[Paul Christensen]

 I had the impression that the rise of the Ham-band-only transceiver in 
 the
 1950's and 60's was based on simple economics.  It was cheaper to drop
 general coverage receive...

Just the opposite, I think.  Some of the poorest performing -- and least 
expensive receivers provided general coverage.  The most expensive receivers 
of their respective eras were the Collins 75A, Collins 75S, Drake R-4, and 
National HRO, all of which were at the top-end of the purchasing ladder in 
their day.

I have several Hallicrafters receivers between the SX-9 and SX-100 and 
others in between.  The cheap and dirty way of providing GC was to find the 
calibrating Main tuning cap points, activate the xtal calibrate marker, then 
tune the bandspread cap to the nearest dial marker.  The problem is that 
mechanical variations in the GC main tuning greatly affect bandspread 
tuning.  For example, on my SX-100, the entire tuning mechanism functions on 
the use of a highly tensioned steel piano string.  The slightest vibration 
on the table transfers from the chassis, into the gears, the dial string, 
and ultimately, the tuning caps.  Because of tuning instability, the SX-100 
is one of the worst receivers I've owned and unfortunately, it was my first 
receiver as a novice in '72.

OTOH, Collins and Drake receivers from the '50s and '60 suffer no such 
problems.  The PTOs are temperature compensated and highly linear from 
end-to-end.  It is possible to use a PTO and a crystal heterodyne scheme at 
the first LO, but was very expensive.  The Drake SPR-4 was such a GC SWBC 
receiver that had a PTO and up to 23 pre-mixer crystals  - and it still 
didn't offer contiguous coverage to 30 MHz.

Going back even further in time, look at the National SW-3, FB-7, and HRO 
frequency-determining topology.   The SW-3 regen and HRO could certainly 
accommodate GC, but the real performance attained in the 1930s was realized 
when the bandspread clips were engaged, severely limiting tuning range to 
only the ham bands.  For a non-PTO tuning method, National's HRO gearbox, 
coil boxes with taps, and elliptical tuning dial were a flash of genius.

So, I see the early ham bands only receivers as the more superior, and 
expensive product.  Apart from the mentioned Hallicrafters SX receivers, I 
don't collect and restore any other type of GC receiver.  And, how anyone 
can elevate the SX-88 to Delivered from God status is well beyond my 
comprehension!

Paul, W9AC

- Original Message - 
From: Ron D'Eau Claire r...@cobi.biz
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX3 vs FT817 - how do the insidedimensions 
compare?
 It was cheaper to drop
 general coverage receive. It was also true that they were typically better
 performing than most general coverage receivers, mostly due to improved
 input filtering that protected the mixer from large off-frequency signals.

 As you may recall, most general coverage receivers up to that time used
 simple L/C tunable input filters that required multiple knob-twiddling or 
 a
 big ganged multi-section tuning cap with the stages carefully adjusted 
 so
 they tracked the across the tuning range.

 A well-designed fixed tuned input filter was better, especially important
 consdering the relatively easy-to-overload mixers in common use back then.
 That gave the ad writers a good explanation for the limited tuning ranges.

 Ron AC7AC

 -Original Message-
 After almost 50 years of being a ham, I see that the conventional wisdom
 of NOT including general coverage in a receiver has been refuted.  It was
 thought to be at the expense of performance on the ham bands.

 How have modern design techniques overcome this limitation?

 73 de Jim - AD6CW


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 with a Kenwood TL-922A

[Paul Christensen]

 In my opinion, the TL922 MUST be modified with a faster relay, or you must 
 use PTT, or you
 must use a large-ish amount of TX Delay to prevent hot-switching.

Another option to deal with sluggish amp T/R relays involves use of an 
external T/R switch like the Ameritron QSK-5, or Array Solutions QSK Master. 
Some ops are looking to preserve equipment in its original form, or they're 
not comfortable with making the mods, or they're timid about working inside 
an amp.

I've been purchasing used QSK-5 units on the used market for under $200, 
mostly in good electrical condition.  That's a bit more expensive than an 
internal mod to the TL 922 amp, but RF switching is fast, silent and 
through-loss is reasonably low. I believe a QSK-5PC is also available for 
installation inside an amp.  It may take some minor changes, but the unit 
should apply well to the TL 922.  The key line voltage between the amp and 
K3 would be more reasonable and a buffer circuit wouldn't be needed.

The only remaining issue when using an external T/R switch is that the first 
keyed element in CW is truncated until the PIN diodes take over after the 
mechanical frame relay energizes to hold the amp key line low.  But, this 
too can be solved if one want's to make additional bias/switching mods --  
which the QSK-5PC likely includes.

Paul, W9AC 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 with a Kenwood TL-922A

[Paul Christensen]

For folks not wanting to modify their amps, a solid-state amp buffer can be 
placed between the K3 and TL-922.  I like the Jackson Harbor Keyall 
circuit since it can switch up to 500V AC/DC at several amps and it 
optically isolates the K3's switching transistor from the amp.

http://wb9kzy.com/keyall.pdf

The Keyall is sold as a kit through Jackson Harbor Press, although Andy, 
W8CNZ is providing an assembled plug-'n-play device for about USD $25.

Paul, W9AC


- Original Message - 
From: Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 9:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 with a Kenwood TL-922A




  Anything I need to know before I hook the K3 up to it.

 Don't do it!  The TL-922 has a high voltage PTT line with *no* current
 limiting and no reverse EMF diode across the relay coils.  The relay
 current is rather high and the spike when releasing PTT is quite
 high.  You will need to add a Harbach engineering soft key board -
   www.harbachelectronics.com/main/page_products_kenwood_tl922a.html -
 in order to keep from blowing the K3's keying FET and potentially
 causing other damage to the K3 due to the spike.

 Even if you add the soft key board, I would recommend adding back
 diodes across the T/R relay coils and adding a series resistor in
 the relay line to keep the current down and minimize the potential
 for a spike.

 73,

... Joe, W4TV


 On 9/2/2011 8:57 PM, Chris Hembree wrote:
 I am buying a Kenwood TL-922A Amp. Anything I need to know before I hook 
 the K3 up to it.

 Thanks
 Chris W7CTH
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Re: [Elecraft] RIBBON MICROPHONE

[Paul Christensen]

You can use a ribbon mic with the K3, but be aware that the pattern is 
bi-directional, and this model doesn't appear to allow the user to alter the 
pattern, unlike say...a poly-directional RCA 77Dx.  Side rejection will be 
good but the amplitude response from rear-arriving sound will be the same as 
forward arriving.  I wouldn't use this mic for that reason alone.

You can connect the mic to the K3's rear-panel mic connector, using the same 
methods of interconnect for other balanced-output mics into the unbalanced 
input of the K3.  Ensure that the K3's mic bias is deactivated.  It should 
EQ nicely with the K3's internal equalizer.

Paul, W9AC



- Original Message - 
From: Ed Stallman n...@airmail.net
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 12:47 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] RIBBON MICROPHONE


 Hello , I'm  A  new K3 user and I would like to be sure this
 Microphone will work with the K3 before placing my order ... Please
 have a look here

 http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/mxl-r144-ribbon-microphone

 I have friends using this Mic on other radio's without audio gear and
 they all sound very natural , Also will I be able to use the rear Mic
 Jack ? I'm hoping I can to help keep clutter from up front .

 Thanks Ed

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Re: [Elecraft] k3 WWV

[Paul Christensen]

FWIW, I try and use 10 MHz as a last resort for zero-beat.  The house is 
filled with 10 MHz clocks from various electronic appliances, all of them 
being nowhere near WWV accuracy so it can make zero beat adjustments 
difficult, depending on the incoming signal strength.  However, when I make 
a check, it's when the K3 is on the 30m band.

Because of potential interference issues, including my own GPS-DO, I prefer 
to use CHU since they transmit at odd carrier frequencies that are not as 
subject to interference from nearby clocked sources.  CHU has relatively 
good coverage down to the southeast, but I also acknowledge that CHU is not 
heard in many parts of the world.

Paul, W9AC



 Hello,

 Can WWV at 10 MHz be copied on the K3 without the KBPF3 General Coverage
 Module?

 Thanks

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Re: [Elecraft] Suggestions for 10 MHz Signal Source for the K3?

[Paul Christensen]

  What are the stability and accuracy of these devices in parts
  per billion (10^12)?  For 80 bucks you're not going to get a
  rubidium or cesium standard

The $80 Trimble Thuderbolts as well as most GPS-DO units will do 10^-12.  My 
long-term 24 hour average is 10^-13 as reported by KE5FX software.  So, as 
long as the unit is locked to the GPS satellites, you can achieve long-term 
Rubidium accuracy and about one decimal point away from cesium.  Short-term 
accuracy is around 10 ^-11 although one of my Thunderbolts shows 10^-12 at 
start up and stays there.  Locking the GPS-DO is as easy as throwing a tiny 
GPS antenna out the window.  Mine is resting on decorative brick wall and 
fed with about 15 feet of RG-174.  These antennas are plentiful on the 
Internet for about USD $15 each.

True, the GPS-DO together with the K3 will not provide anywhere near the 
accuracy stated above since the K3 will be frequency locked to the external 
oscillator, and not phase locked.  But, the output of the GPS-DO can be 
split and fed to other transceivers (e.g., Icom 77700/7800, ADAT, etc), or 
used as a test equipment reference.  The Trimble Thunderbolt has 
extraordinary phase noise performance as documented by KE5FX, typically 
about 10 dB better than other GPS-DO units in the area of 10Hz to 1 kHz from 
Fc.  So, it may be overkill for the K3, but the device may come in handy at 
a future date where its full potential can be exploited.

Paul, W9AC

 

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Re: [Elecraft] Suggestions for 10 MHz Signal Source for the K3?

[Paul Christensen]

In holdover mode (e.g., no antenna connected), accuracy is typically 
7x10^-10 for the Thunderbolt.  So, still quite good.  However, I don't 
recall if the typical holdover specs require that the GPS-DO first initially 
attain lock, then the antenna can be removed.

Paul, W9AC

- Original Message - 
From: Phil Kane k2...@kanafi.org
To: Paul Christensen w...@arrl.net
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Suggestions for 10 MHz Signal Source for the K3?


 On 6/21/2011 6:49 AM, Paul Christensen wrote:

  Locking the GPS-DO is as easy as throwing a tiny
 GPS antenna out the window.

  True, but I was referring to applications where the standard is
  used as a stand alone device.  My present comm room has
  little or no GPS or WWVB access because it is 3/4 underground.
  Were I to re-install it, I probably would have added a 14th
  antenna to the roof for GPS  :-)

  That's what happens when one's experience was in the pre-GPS
  era..

 --  73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402
 

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Re: [Elecraft] D 104

[Paul Christensen]

If an active transformer/buffer is really desired, I recommend staying away 
from an op-amp circuit.  A single-stage JFET transistor uses fewer parts, is 
generally less susceptible to RF, and there's no voltage-divider bias needed 
** -- and still have the benefit of a high-Z input and low-Z output.  See my 
QRZ.com page for D-104 alternatives with the K3.

Beware of Google searches on this topic.  Most active transformer D-104 
circuits I've seen on the web are incorrectly designed and several use 
superfluous components, the exception being W8JI's design which is similar 
to the one shown on my QRZ.com page.

Paul, W9AC

**  Most op-amps are designed for use with bi-polar power supplies.  When 
used with a single-supply rail, the op-amp input must be biased such that 
the output is 1/2 the supply rail with no input signal present.

- Original Message - 
From: Lou Kolb louk...@gmail.com
To: elecraft elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2011 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] D 104


 You'd also be well advised, if its an unamplified D-104, to add one of the
 op-amp matching circuits which can be powered from the K3.  It'll make the
 D-104 look into the 10 megohms or so that it likes and it will sound much
 more natural. a Quic google search should yield a few of these circuits.
 Lou WA3MIX
 - Original Message - 
 From: Sam Morgan k5oai@gmail.com
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2011 1:30 PM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] D 104


I use an amplified D-104 with my K3, excellent audio reports.
 I have also used an un amplified D-104, with equally good reports.

 Try your local radio shack for the 8 pin jack.

 8-Pin Ham Microphone Plug
 Model: 274-025  | Catalog #: 274-025
 $4.19

 http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062445

 GB  73
 K5OAI
 Sam Morgan

 On 6/4/2011 12:22 PM, CHARLES WHITE wrote:
 I would like to connect a D 104 mike to the K3 but the D 104 is a 4 pin
 jack and the K3 is 8 pins.

 I have not been able to find a 8 pin jack for the mike at either MOUSER
 or DIGIKEY suppliers.

 Does any one use the D104 with the K3?

 Any advise?

 Thanks

 Charlie White
 K6TBB
 San Diego
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Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: D 104

[Paul Christensen]

 Then why not just put a 1 megohm or so resistor in series with the mic
 element.  I believe the K3 mic input has adequate gain to compensate for
 it, and it will keep the crystal (or ceramic) mic element happy.
 The KISS principle applies - a resistor is much more simple than an FET
 or a transformer.

Plenty of folks have been doing that for decades with their D-104 mics. 
It's fine unless you want to optimize SNR as the source Z of the generator 
(D-104) increases by the amount of the added resistance .  I've tried it 
both ways, and a JFET configured either as a source-follower or 
common-source amp with a J201 JFET has always been noticeably quieter when 
compared to the addition of a single resistor after mic element.

For the K3, it's easy to optimize the D-104 with a JFET by using exactly two 
parts: a pair of resistors.  That's just two more parts than one 1 meg-ohm 
resistor.  In  the K3 menu, one simply activates mic bias.  When using a 
JFET as a common-source amplifier, the drain resistor is supplied by the K3 
(R89 = 5.6K).  A 1uF cap also internal to the K3 (C28) isolates audio from 
the DC bias injection.  That leaves only a source resistor and gate leak 
resistor.  Sure, not quite as economical as a single 1 meg resistor after 
the mic element, but with only three total parts, I find that the added 
performance more than offsets the addition of a two more parts.  In one of 
my D-104 mics, the JFET and two resistors are mounted with adhesive tape 
right on the back of the D-104 element.  It doesn't get much simpler.

The JFET is functioning only as an impedance transformation device -- it is 
not matching impedance, nor does it need to for the reasons cited by you and 
K9YC.

Paul, W9AC 

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Re: [Elecraft] Is the KX3 going to be sold as a kit?

[Paul Christensen]

 Perhaps, even Elecraft offered a SMD-kit at a price 3 times of the 
 assembled version, it might not be good enough to earn a reasonable 
 business profit in view of the possible manpower involved. Perhaps, only 
 through hole components kits can maintain some profits.

Another issue is the attrition that occurs when attempting an SMD kit.  For 
this reason, many SMD kits are either not started, or they're abandoned 
shortly after commencement of construction.  I've purchased several SMD kits 
on the used market where perhaps 5% of the kit is completed, and some have 
been poorly constructed.

In the case of a kit like a KX3 that involves many SMD parts, it would 
undoubtedly lead to many unfinished kits and some very unhappy customers, 
most of whom are not good with personal due-diligence.  Even though that 
onus is on the buyer to find what they're up against before the purchase, 
some people will resent the kit supplier when they're left with a box full 
of some very expensive parts and few takers who are willing to finish a 
previously-started kit at a fair price.

Paul, W9AC 

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Re: [Elecraft] KX3: How much space inside?

[Paul Christensen]

 But don't sell the 703 short.

Dave, my experience with the 703+ was a bit less enjoyable than yours. 
Here's why:  QSK performance was not only poor, it was down-right 
objectionable on the air.  The 703+ suffers from extreme dit-shortening 
and chirp from T/R synthesizer transitions when in QSK mode.  In semi mode, 
CW is fine.  But, the 703+ cannot handle fast T/R transitions.

One cannot hear this effect while listening to the CW sidetone.  The keying 
artifacts require listening on a separate receiver, ensuring that the 
external receiver is not being overloaded, NB turned off, etc.  For me, 
owning the 703+ was one of the worst QRP experiences I've had.  That, added 
to the relatively high Rx current consumption and high case temperature 
caused me to sell it shortly after purchase.

The ability to produce fast T/R without artifacts is now at the top of my 
list when considering any new rig whether it's QRP or QRO.  It tops all 
other performance parameters. It's *the* reason why I have not gravitated to 
most other SDR rigs.

Paul, W9AC

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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Baseband filter?

[Paul Christensen]

According to Wayne, Rx performance will be similar to that of the Flex-3000. 
With the KX3's QSD down-convert architecture, my guess is that all 
performance parameters will be superb, with BDR specs probably well behind 
the K3.  I'm basing my opinion only on the little information available. 
Who knows what other magic they developed to close the gap in performance. 
It's hard to believe that such performance is attainable in a low-current 
design.  Take a look at Dan Tayloe's Norcal 2030.  It's nearly a miracle 
that he attained such high performance in a quadrature detector design and 
yet the  Rx current is less than 12 mA.

The KX3 effectively combines the best performance and portability attributes 
of the Flex-3000 and Flex-1500 into a highly modular package.  Once 
available, I can't imagine anything better for a DXpedition.  For 
contesting, FD , etc., the K3 would still surpass it.

I really like the KX3 panel design.  I'm still hoping that the next major 
Elecraft transceiver continues with modular architecture to allow for a 
choice in remote control panels between portable and base station sizes. 
There's no longer a need to bind the hardware to the control surface.

Paul, W9AC

Original Message - 
From: Rick Prather k6limae...@gmail.com
To: Bruce Beford bruce.bef...@myfairpoint.net
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Baseband filter?


 Thank you Bruce,

 I was also puzzled by that part of the presentation.

 Rick
 K6LE

 On 5/21/2011, at 8:01 , Bruce Beford wrote:

 Baseband refers to the fact that the QSD down-converts the RF to IQ
 streams at directly near-audio range frequencies. The ADC converts this 
 to
 digital, and the DSP then does the demodulation. From the description, 
 the
 IF frequencies are in the 10 KHz range. So, the baseband roofing 
 filter
 will be a selectable active audio filter operating in this range, prior 
 to
 the ADC. This will prevent excessive out of band energy from reaching 
 the
 ADC.

 Bruce, N1RX


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Re: [Elecraft] KPA-500 Output for Input schedule?

[Paul Christensen]

 I would like to know if some kind of feedback (maybe complicated)
 could bring about a quantum leap in linearity, like sampling the
 output of the amp and feeding that back to the K3 to digitally
 pre-alter the audio to cancel the distortion going out.

That's exactly the function of adaptive pre-distortion.and is used in the 
ADAT ADT-200A.  Scarce as that rig is, it works well.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.123.2357rep=rep1type=pdf

See the section entitled The Predistortion Concept.  The adaptive part of 
predistortion comes from the use of a dynamic algorithm like LMS -- the 
same, or nearly the same algorithm used in the K3's denoiser DSP function.

Paul, W9AC 

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Re: [Elecraft] [KPA500]KPA500 power cord question

[Paul Christensen]

The electrician, either knowingly or unknowingly, did him a favor by 
installing the NEMA 14-30 receptacle.  He can now run any amp, including the 
Alpha 77 series and older Henrys that use a 120V blower on the neutral. 
There are plenty folks who wished they had run 30A, 4-wire service from the 
beginning.

To run the KPA500 on 240V, he only needs to use the existing 3-wire power 
cord from the KPA500 to the NEMA 14-30 plug, leaving the plug's neutral 
terminal vacant.

Paul, W9AC

- Original Message - 
From: w...@w5ov.com
To: Leigh L. Klotz, Jr WA5ZNU le...@wa5znu.org
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [KPA500]KPA500 power cord question



 Tell him to come back and swap it out with a NEMA 6-20R (20 amp).

 My 240v shack outlet has a NEMA 14-30 socket.
 Has anybody encountered this before?  It looks like the electrician
 thought I wanted a dryer.

 Leigh/WA5ZNU

 On 05/03/2011 03:23 PM, Phil  Debbie Salas wrote:
 I run my KPA500 on 240VAC.  I purchased a C13615P-6 power cord from
 www.cables.com ($12.00 plus $6.45 shipping) which matches the NEMA 6-15
 240VAC outlet receptacle in my shack.  Plug-N-Play.  This just replaces
 the
 120VAC cord that came with the KPA500.

 Phil - AD5X

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Re: [Elecraft] [KPA500]KPA500 power cord question

[Paul Christensen]

That receptacle contains 120V as well as 240V service.  You're all set for 
most any commercially-manufactured Part 97 amplifier ever made.

Paul, W9AC

 My 240v shack outlet has a NEMA 14-30 socket.
 Has anybody encountered this before?  It looks like the electrician 
 thought
 I wanted a dryer.

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Re: [Elecraft] OT - QST Article

[Paul Christensen]

A similar article appeared in the December, 1979 issue of QST:  

http://p1k.arrl.org/pubs_archive/73673

Rather than passively coupling the transmitter to the dummy load, he used an RF 
transformer on a ferrite core.  It also measures SWR with the usual FWD and REF 
displays, rather than an absolute value null when minimum system SWR is reached.

Paul, W9AC

  
  - Original Message - 
  From: Lee Buller 
  To: Paul Christensen ; Elecraft Reflector 
  Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 9:28 AM
  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT - QST Article





  I think you're referring to my article from the February, 2010 issue of QST. 
If you can secure permission for the ARRL, I'll send you a copy.

  Paul, W9AC


  Thanks PaulI do not think it is on line, but I do have the QST.  
Apparently, QST does not have articles on line from recent issues.  I am very 
keen on building this device.  I think it is a handy gadget.  Thanks Paul for 
giving me the information.

  Thanks to all who sent me other article locations as well to similar device.

  Top-notch people on this reflector.

  Lee - K0WA

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Re: [Elecraft] Odd Question [Elecraft history]

[Paul Christensen]

  I'll be able to say that I knew Eric and Wayne way back when.  :=)

I want to make sure they remember me at the time of their IPO.

Paul, W9AC

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Re: [Elecraft] K3EXREF Questions

[Paul Christensen]

 1. Will the K3EXREF work straight from the output of an Efratom LPRO-101 
 or
 does it need a TTL square wave output or something else requiring extra
 circuitry between the LPRO and the K3?

A 10 MHz sine wave output from the Efratom is fine (+4 dBm to +16 dBm).

 2. If the K3EXREF is installed, will the K3 still work as normal if the
 frequency standard is not turned on?

Yes.

Also, an asterisk (*) in the K3's menu will blink when K3EXREF recognizes a 
valid reference signal.

Paul,  W9AC

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Re: [Elecraft] K3EXREF

[Paul Christensen]

 I can make or obtain an SMA-SMA cable or if the K3EXREF input is a BNC, 
 cables are already on hand for that.

The kit includes an SMA panel jack with completed ends. A SMA-to-BNC 
between-series adapter is included.  I found a piece of RG-316 (RG-174 but 
with a Teflon jacket) with a male SMA on one end and crimped a male BNC on 
the other end.  The SMA end connects to the K3 while the BNC attaches to the 
precision oscillator.

Paul, W9AC




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Re: [Elecraft] K3EXREF Questions

[Paul Christensen]

The slow flash of the asterisk changes to a steady asterisk upon loss of the 
external reference, and presumably when the external reference falls 
reasonably outside of level and frequency tolerances.  One can confirm the 
operation of K3EXREF by unplugging the precision reference and noting a 
steady asterisk on the LCD display while in menu mode.  Upon re-connection 
of the external reference, the asterisk will again start flashing.  It is 
definitely confirmation that a precision external reference is active and 
present.

Paul, W9AC

- Original Message - 
From: David Pratt da...@g4dmp.fsnet.co.uk
To: Ron D'Eau Claire r...@cobi.biz
Cc: 'Julian, G4ILO' julian.g4...@gmail.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3EXREF Questions


 Ron - Shouldn't the asterisk be blinking if the K3 is being controlled
 by and external reference?  The presence of an asterisk merely indicates
 that it has at some time been controlled by a reference since the last
 power-up.

 73 de David G4DMP

 In a recent message, Ron D'Eau Claire r...@cobi.biz writes

I can answer 2, Julian. It is yes. If there is no external 10 MHz signal,
the K3 reference oscillator reverts to its normal operation. An asterisk
(splat, whatever one wants to call it) appears on the LCD when there's an
external signal detected, so you know at a glance whether the K3 is being
controlled by the external signal.
 -- 
 + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +
 | David M Pratt, Kippax, Leeds.   |
 | Website: http://www.g4dmp.co.uk |
 + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +



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[Elecraft] K3EXREF and Trimble Thunderbolts

[Paul Christensen]

Those of you considering a GPS-disciplined oscillator for use with the 
K3EXREF may be interested in this: I recently purchased two Trimble 
Thunderbolts on the surplus market to compare against my HP 58540A and 
Brandywine GPS4 units.  After several days of testing, I'm retiring the HP 
and Brandywine units.  All devices have exceptionally good stability, but 
the Trimble units consume far less power, run substantially cooler, and the 
monitoring interface provides much more status information than the prior 
units.

In recent discussions with John, KE5FX, he has performed phase noise 
measurements across several GPS-DO units and even various oscillator brands 
within the Trimble Thunderbolt model.

http://www.thegleam.com/ke5fx/tbolt.htm

Early Thunderbolts use a Piezo Corp. OCXO and when combined with GPS 
correction, its phase noise performance is good but not exceptional.  By 
contrast, the Trimble-branded OCXO offers phase noise performance several 
degrees better than most other GPS-DO units near Fc.  The area between 1 Hz 
and 100 Hz is usually a good indicator of the overall phase noise 
performance. It's not easy getting good numbers that distance from Fc. 
Although the phase noise performance will not carry over to the K3, it's an 
important parameter if the GPS-DO will be used in other applications or 
other transceivers that phase lock onto the 10 MHz external reference.

Some suggestions:

1) Look for Thunderbolts with a year 2004 Rev. E stamp.  These use the 
better quality OCXO units with the Trimble-branded label.  KE5FX has sampled 
several from this batch.  As noted, early units with the Piezo-branded OCXO 
are worse in terms of phase noise performance.  I do not know the OCXO 
quality of recent units;

2) You will see Thunderbolts in a high quality case where an internal DC-DC 
converter is used.  My recommendation is to avoid being tempted by the nice 
looks and what may be perceived as a better unit.  I can almost guarantee 
that the switch-mode converters will present noise problems with your K3 
receiver -- and seen on your panadapters.  I've been down that road with 
other GPS-DO units and ultimately, I scrapped the converters and fed them 
with linear supplies.  Stick to the basic ugly OEM Thunderbolt module and 
feed it from a triple-output linear supply;

3) Power supplies:  I like OEM/off-board supplies by PowerOne, Condor, and 
International Power.  They offer excellent performance and low noise.  I am 
using an International Power IHBAA-40W.  Also look for HBAA-40W.  The user 
must add a fuse, power cord and wiring harness.  It's a little more work, 
but you get a lot of performance for the money;

4) Look  for sellers who will accept offers.  Both my Thunderbolts were 
purchased for USD $70 ea and a small shipping change.

Even if you have no plans to use K3EXREF, get one anyway as a precision 
frequency reference for your station.

Paul, W9AC



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Re: [Elecraft] K3EXREF and Trimble Thunderbolts

[Paul Christensen]

Joe,

Sure.  One could build a clean supply using 1A regulators from a 
well-filtered supply.  The requirement is +12, -12, and +5.  So, one could 
use 7812, 7912, and 7805 regulators -- or their low drop-out LM2940 
equivalents.  I believe the max current needed during oven warm-up is about 
0.75 amp from the +12V supply and that tapers off to quite a bit less 
afterwards.

The trouble with many homebrew power supplies is lack of attention paid to 
filtering before and after the regulators -- and sizing the voltage drop 
across the regulator to account for brown-out conditions but no more. 
Probably the majority of builders neglect the inclusion of film caps and 
discharge diodes around the regulators.

I believe the latest ARRL handbook includes good information about power 
supply construction and how to go about matching up the transformer to 
adequately hit the regulator input target voltages based on rectifier type.

OTOH, new-old-stock supplies (e.g., PowerOne, Condor, International Power) 
can be found on-line at a cost comparable to what one would pay to build a 
supply using new components.  I paid about $35 for a NOS triple-output 
supply made by International Power.

Paul, W9AC


- Original Message - 
From: Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com
To: Paul Christensen w...@arrl.net
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 10:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3EXREF and Trimble Thunderbolts



 Paul,

 3) Power supplies: I like OEM/off-board supplies by PowerOne, Condor,
 and International Power. They offer excellent performance and low
 noise. I am using an International Power IHBAA-40W. Also look for
 HBAA-40W.

 What are the power requirements?  Would it not be possible to build
 a basic linear supply relatively inexpensively and avoid all of the
 switcher issues?

 73,

... Joe, W4TV


 On 4/5/2011 8:43 AM, Paul Christensen wrote:
 Those of you considering a GPS-disciplined oscillator for use with the
 K3EXREF may be interested in this: I recently purchased two Trimble
 Thunderbolts on the surplus market to compare against my HP 58540A and
 Brandywine GPS4 units.  After several days of testing, I'm retiring the 
 HP
 and Brandywine units.  All devices have exceptionally good stability, but
 the Trimble units consume far less power, run substantially cooler, and 
 the
 monitoring interface provides much more status information than the prior
 units.

 In recent discussions with John, KE5FX, he has performed phase noise
 measurements across several GPS-DO units and even various oscillator 
 brands
 within the Trimble Thunderbolt model.

 http://www.thegleam.com/ke5fx/tbolt.htm

 Early Thunderbolts use a Piezo Corp. OCXO and when combined with GPS
 correction, its phase noise performance is good but not exceptional.  By
 contrast, the Trimble-branded OCXO offers phase noise performance several
 degrees better than most other GPS-DO units near Fc.  The area between 1 
 Hz
 and 100 Hz is usually a good indicator of the overall phase noise
 performance. It's not easy getting good numbers that distance from Fc.
 Although the phase noise performance will not carry over to the K3, it's 
 an
 important parameter if the GPS-DO will be used in other applications or
 other transceivers that phase lock onto the 10 MHz external reference.

 Some suggestions:

 1) Look for Thunderbolts with a year 2004 Rev. E stamp.  These use the
 better quality OCXO units with the Trimble-branded label.  KE5FX has 
 sampled
 several from this batch.  As noted, early units with the Piezo-branded 
 OCXO
 are worse in terms of phase noise performance.  I do not know the OCXO
 quality of recent units;

 2) You will see Thunderbolts in a high quality case where an internal 
 DC-DC
 converter is used.  My recommendation is to avoid being tempted by the 
 nice
 looks and what may be perceived as a better unit.  I can almost 
 guarantee
 that the switch-mode converters will present noise problems with your K3
 receiver -- and seen on your panadapters.  I've been down that road with
 other GPS-DO units and ultimately, I scrapped the converters and fed them
 with linear supplies.  Stick to the basic ugly OEM Thunderbolt module and
 feed it from a triple-output linear supply;

 3) Power supplies:  I like OEM/off-board supplies by PowerOne, Condor, 
 and
 International Power.  They offer excellent performance and low noise.  I 
 am
 using an International Power IHBAA-40W.  Also look for HBAA-40W.  The 
 user
 must add a fuse, power cord and wiring harness.  It's a little more work,
 but you get a lot of performance for the money;

 4) Look  for sellers who will accept offers.  Both my Thunderbolts were
 purchased for USD $70 ea and a small shipping change.

 Even if you have no plans to use K3EXREF, get one anyway as a precision
 frequency reference for your station.

 Paul, W9AC



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 Elecraft mailing list
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman

Re: [Elecraft] K3EXREF and Trimble Thunderbolts

[Paul Christensen]

Several folks have inquired about the Thunderbolt's $70 price.  The big 
on-line auction place.  Seller name:  svcompucycle

Paul, W9AC


- Original Message - 
From: Matt Zilmer mzil...@verizon.net
To: Paul Christensen w...@arrl.net
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3EXREF and Trimble Thunderbolts


Thanks Paul.  Good summary and reference info.

The K3EXREF certainly works as advertised.  I've already used two
different Rb sources, and it's solid as a rock.  Using a TIA over the
weekend,, saw a 1 to 2 Hz wander at 28MHz, however the Rb clocks have
a little start-up drift and the wander might have been due to that.
And of course,  the TIA is based on Rb, itself.

I bought a Rev E Thunderbolt GPS-DO from a vendor on eBay.  It's still
training ( 24 hours), and there was a 1 Hz per 10 minutes upward
drift after two hours of operation, in the REF*CAL indicator.  Is this
normal?  Will check it again at around 24 hours into the experiement.
Even though I work in the GPS industry, I've never used a GPS-DO
before.

I've tossed my original Wellnav OCXO-based freq source.  We use these
as a time base here in our GPS simulators, but they're far from phase
noise free and there is significantly more drift (might also be age).
Was seening 5 to 6 Hz of wander, and sampling it showed a textbook
[but skewed] Gaussian distribution.  The wander should not generally
even be detectable with conventional ham equipment, but it was.

Cool stuff.

Just to reinforce Paul's comments, the Trimble software is quite
impressive.  I work in the industry, and I've never seen even in our
own Pro products, so much monitored statistical and operations data in
a control program.  It certainly was worth the price (see Trimble's
web site under Support).  Free that is.

I'm running the Tbolt on a linear supply.  It's a three-output Topward
lab-grade PS.  Monitoring the current consumed, I see the following:
+12V: 700-750 mA for startup (warming the OCXO), 40-50 mA steady state
-12V:  20 mA continuous
+5V: 370 mA continuous

Add all this up, and steady state power consumed comes to about 2.7W.
This is perfect for use in a solar-powered station.  My K3 and general
station power comes from two 50W Siemens PV panels on the roof.  These
feed a charge controller and 110AH 12V AGM battery in the shack.  The
lower power consumption of the GPS-DO is compatible with this set up.

I had borrowed a Brandywine unit from a buddy that works there, and it
consumed about 35W steady state.  Not good for this installation.

73,
matt W6NIA
Upland, CA.

On Tue, 05 Apr 2011 08:43:46 -0400, you wrote:

Those of you considering a GPS-disciplined oscillator for use with the
K3EXREF may be interested in this: I recently purchased two Trimble
Thunderbolts on the surplus market to compare against my HP 58540A and
Brandywine GPS4 units.  After several days of testing, I'm retiring the HP
and Brandywine units.  All devices have exceptionally good stability, but
the Trimble units consume far less power, run substantially cooler, and the
monitoring interface provides much more status information than the prior
units.

In recent discussions with John, KE5FX, he has performed phase noise
measurements across several GPS-DO units and even various oscillator brands
within the Trimble Thunderbolt model.

http://www.thegleam.com/ke5fx/tbolt.htm

Early Thunderbolts use a Piezo Corp. OCXO and when combined with GPS
correction, its phase noise performance is good but not exceptional.  By
contrast, the Trimble-branded OCXO offers phase noise performance several
degrees better than most other GPS-DO units near Fc.  The area between 1 Hz
and 100 Hz is usually a good indicator of the overall phase noise
performance. It's not easy getting good numbers that distance from Fc.
Although the phase noise performance will not carry over to the K3, it's an
important parameter if the GPS-DO will be used in other applications or
other transceivers that phase lock onto the 10 MHz external reference.

Some suggestions:

1) Look for Thunderbolts with a year 2004 Rev. E stamp.  These use the
better quality OCXO units with the Trimble-branded label.  KE5FX has 
sampled
several from this batch.  As noted, early units with the Piezo-branded OCXO
are worse in terms of phase noise performance.  I do not know the OCXO
quality of recent units;

2) You will see Thunderbolts in a high quality case where an internal DC-DC
converter is used.  My recommendation is to avoid being tempted by the nice
looks and what may be perceived as a better unit.  I can almost guarantee
that the switch-mode converters will present noise problems with your K3
receiver -- and seen on your panadapters.  I've been down that road with
other GPS-DO units and ultimately, I scrapped the converters and fed them
with linear supplies.  Stick to the basic ugly OEM Thunderbolt module and
feed it from a triple-output linear supply;

3) Power supplies:  I like OEM/off-board

Re: [Elecraft] K3EXREF and Trimble Thunderbolts

[Paul Christensen]

I should have added that USD $70 was the offered and accepted price. 
Shipping was very fast as well.


 - Original Message - 
 From: Matt Zilmer mzil...@verizon.net
 To: Paul Christensen w...@arrl.net
 Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 11:40 AM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3EXREF and Trimble Thunderbolts


 Thanks Paul.  Good summary and reference info.

 The K3EXREF certainly works as advertised.  I've already used two
 different Rb sources, and it's solid as a rock.  Using a TIA over the
 weekend,, saw a 1 to 2 Hz wander at 28MHz, however the Rb clocks have
 a little start-up drift and the wander might have been due to that.
 And of course,  the TIA is based on Rb, itself.

 I bought a Rev E Thunderbolt GPS-DO from a vendor on eBay.  It's still
 training ( 24 hours), and there was a 1 Hz per 10 minutes upward
 drift after two hours of operation, in the REF*CAL indicator.  Is this
 normal?  Will check it again at around 24 hours into the experiement.
 Even though I work in the GPS industry, I've never used a GPS-DO
 before.

 I've tossed my original Wellnav OCXO-based freq source.  We use these
 as a time base here in our GPS simulators, but they're far from phase
 noise free and there is significantly more drift (might also be age).
 Was seening 5 to 6 Hz of wander, and sampling it showed a textbook
 [but skewed] Gaussian distribution.  The wander should not generally
 even be detectable with conventional ham equipment, but it was.

 Cool stuff.

 Just to reinforce Paul's comments, the Trimble software is quite
 impressive.  I work in the industry, and I've never seen even in our
 own Pro products, so much monitored statistical and operations data in
 a control program.  It certainly was worth the price (see Trimble's
 web site under Support).  Free that is.

 I'm running the Tbolt on a linear supply.  It's a three-output Topward
 lab-grade PS.  Monitoring the current consumed, I see the following:
 +12V: 700-750 mA for startup (warming the OCXO), 40-50 mA steady state
 -12V:  20 mA continuous
 +5V: 370 mA continuous

 Add all this up, and steady state power consumed comes to about 2.7W.
 This is perfect for use in a solar-powered station.  My K3 and general
 station power comes from two 50W Siemens PV panels on the roof.  These
 feed a charge controller and 110AH 12V AGM battery in the shack.  The
 lower power consumption of the GPS-DO is compatible with this set up.

 I had borrowed a Brandywine unit from a buddy that works there, and it
 consumed about 35W steady state.  Not good for this installation.

 73,
 matt W6NIA
 Upland, CA.

 On Tue, 05 Apr 2011 08:43:46 -0400, you wrote:

Those of you considering a GPS-disciplined oscillator for use with the
K3EXREF may be interested in this: I recently purchased two Trimble
Thunderbolts on the surplus market to compare against my HP 58540A and
Brandywine GPS4 units.  After several days of testing, I'm retiring the HP
and Brandywine units.  All devices have exceptionally good stability, but
the Trimble units consume far less power, run substantially cooler, and 
the
monitoring interface provides much more status information than the prior
units.

In recent discussions with John, KE5FX, he has performed phase noise
measurements across several GPS-DO units and even various oscillator 
brands
within the Trimble Thunderbolt model.

http://www.thegleam.com/ke5fx/tbolt.htm

Early Thunderbolts use a Piezo Corp. OCXO and when combined with GPS
correction, its phase noise performance is good but not exceptional.  By
contrast, the Trimble-branded OCXO offers phase noise performance several
degrees better than most other GPS-DO units near Fc.  The area between 1 
Hz
and 100 Hz is usually a good indicator of the overall phase noise
performance. It's not easy getting good numbers that distance from Fc.
Although the phase noise performance will not carry over to the K3, it's 
an
important parameter if the GPS-DO will be used in other applications or
other transceivers that phase lock onto the 10 MHz external reference.

Some suggestions:

1) Look for Thunderbolts with a year 2004 Rev. E stamp.  These use the
better quality OCXO units with the Trimble-branded label.  KE5FX has
sampled
several from this batch.  As noted, early units with the Piezo-branded 
OCXO
are worse in terms of phase noise performance.  I do not know the OCXO
quality of recent units;

2) You will see Thunderbolts in a high quality case where an internal 
DC-DC
converter is used.  My recommendation is to avoid being tempted by the 
nice
looks and what may be perceived as a better unit.  I can almost 
guarantee
that the switch-mode converters will present noise problems with your K3
receiver -- and seen on your panadapters.  I've been down that road with
other GPS-DO units and ultimately, I scrapped the converters and fed them
with linear supplies.  Stick to the basic ugly OEM Thunderbolt module and
feed it from a triple-output linear supply;

3) Power supplies:  I like

Re: [Elecraft] K3EXREF and Trimble Thunderbolts

[Paul Christensen]

 1.  Any reference oscillator operating at 10 MHz would work with the 
 K3XREF?

The 10 MHz source should have a signal level between +4 dBm and +16 dBm. For 
square wave sources, 2VDC to 3.3VDC peak is optimum.  If the source is a 5V 
logic level, use a 50-ohm resistor in series with the input.

 2.  All that's needed for this to work is the K3XREF, updated
firmware, an accurate 10 MHz clock/oscillator, and a BNC cable?

Yes.

 3.  Trimble Thunderbolt seems to be a good, cheap product to try.  Any
others that are  $100?

Many.  For those not affraid of getting a soldering iron hot, I think the 
Trimble units are pretty tough to beat.  Requires making a power cable to a 
triple-output power supply of your choice.  For a while, the HP Z3801A units 
were very popular.  These use noisy DC-DC internal converters, are power 
hungry, but offer some of the best phase noise peformance of all the GPS-DO 
units.  The Trimble units have been documented to pretty much meet the phase 
noise performance of the Z3801A.   Rubidium is another choice in the USD 
$100 range but these too will require some creative power connections.

 What are the additional advantages of doing this other than knowing
you've pretty much eliminated any frequency drift?

Really none I can think of, but as the weak-signal V/UHF ops have said, 
that's reason enough!

Paul, W9AC


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Re: [Elecraft] K3EXREF and Trimble Thunderbolts

[Paul Christensen]

Jim,

In case you missed earlier comments, don't worry about phase noise 
performance of the external reference if you'll only use it with the K3. 
But, in addition to the K3, a high performance, low phase noise external 
reference can be distributed around the shack or work bench for other 
purposes.  I use a second output from the Trimble to phase-lock an ADAT 
transceiver.

Paul, W9AC

- Original Message - 
From: Paul Christensen w...@arrl.net
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3EXREF and Trimble Thunderbolts


 1.  Any reference oscillator operating at 10 MHz would work with the
 K3XREF?

 The 10 MHz source should have a signal level between +4 dBm and +16 dBm. 
 For
 square wave sources, 2VDC to 3.3VDC peak is optimum.  If the source is a 
 5V
 logic level, use a 50-ohm resistor in series with the input.

 2.  All that's needed for this to work is the K3XREF, updated
 firmware, an accurate 10 MHz clock/oscillator, and a BNC cable?

 Yes.

 3.  Trimble Thunderbolt seems to be a good, cheap product to try.  Any
 others that are  $100?

 Many.  For those not affraid of getting a soldering iron hot, I think the
 Trimble units are pretty tough to beat.  Requires making a power cable to 
 a
 triple-output power supply of your choice.  For a while, the HP Z3801A 
 units
 were very popular.  These use noisy DC-DC internal converters, are power
 hungry, but offer some of the best phase noise peformance of all the 
 GPS-DO
 units.  The Trimble units have been documented to pretty much meet the 
 phase
 noise performance of the Z3801A.   Rubidium is another choice in the USD
 $100 range but these too will require some creative power connections.

 What are the additional advantages of doing this other than knowing
 you've pretty much eliminated any frequency drift?

 Really none I can think of, but as the weak-signal V/UHF ops have said,
 that's reason enough!

 Paul, W9AC


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Re: [Elecraft] Paddle input with Y connector OK?

[Paul Christensen]

Barry,

You'll either need to look at the key line input section of the schematics 
for the two transceivers, or give it a shot.  In  the past, I've used low 
voltage-drop Schottky diodes to steer and isolate two transceivers.  I now 
use a W8ZR StationPro II (SPII) and no longer have these concerns.  The SPII 
is a great station switching device and in addition to switching the paddle 
lines, it will automatically switch many other station  functions.

Here's why the problem can occur when using a simple Y adapter:  The 
paddle lines from most transceivers (and keyers) are often pulled up to a 
low-voltage supply voltage rail using moderately high-value (e.g., 10K) 
resistors.  When the transceiver is turned off, the supply rail may look 
like a low-z short to ground.  If an off-the-shelf Y adapter is used, then 
the paddle contacts are in parallel with 10K and a voltage divider is 
unintentionally created on the active paddle line since the paddle lines 
sees 10K to the active rig's supply and 10K in the rig that is shorted to 
the inactive power supply.  That may or may not be enough to continuously 
pull down the paddle line on the active transceiver and cause problems -- it 
depends a lot on what conditioning each transceiver is providing on the 
paddle lines.

If you find that an off-the-shelf Y adapter won't work, then with a little 
effort, you can try installing small Schottky diodes into the 1/4 or 1/8 
mini plugs of a homebrew Y adapter.  Two diodes are needed in each of two 
plugs of the Y going to the transceivers: one on the dit lines, the other 
on the dah lines.Better still...look into the SPII!

Paul, W9AC


- Original Message - 
From: Barry w...@comcast.net
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 5:50 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] Paddle input with Y connector OK?


 Is there any reason I shouldn't make a Y connector so my CW paddle can
 be input to the K3 and another radio (or external keyer)?  Yes, only one
 will be on at any given time.
 Tnx,
 Barry W2UP

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 S9 43' Vertical

[Paul Christensen]

 If you do modeling, please be aware that the pro's know that all modeling
 programs on the planet terribly underestimate ground losses.

Another trap to avoid is thinking that (all other things being equal), more 
radials on a vertical will somehow result in better low-angle radiation. 
Well, it does, but only to the extent that the radials are also improving 
the entire vertical field strength profile through a minimization of ground 
loss.  The radials are not improving low angle radiation independently 
without improving overall radiation efficiency.

Medium and far-field ground conductivity rules when wanting efficient 
low-angle radiation from a vertical (or vertical dipole) at angles lower 
than about ten degrees above the horizon.  The mid to far field conductivity 
and geography also applies to horizontal antennas atop a tower, for example. 
The best real-world example I've ever seen of this is W4ZV's study of the 
W3CRA site.  A few pictures and graphs are worth ten thousand words.

Same general rules apply to 160m/80m four-square arrays.  It's just that to 
get directivity and low-angles from a horizontal antenna up in the air on 
those bands requires some pretty darn tall mounting structures (especially 
160m) that are beyond the capabilities of most station owners.  So, 
four-squares on the lower bands offer a good compromise.

I've lived with verticals for the last fifteen years and it's only been the 
last two years that I've had a horizontal wire antenna up for operation on 
80m-10m.  Unless there's no way of getting wire up in the air -- or unless I 
were immediately adjacent to salt water, an all-band vertical would be an 
antenna of last choice for me (perhaps small loops would be dead last!). 
I've also come to this conclusion for my own operating if I've got just one 
all-band (80m-10m) antenna:  (1) Flat top dipole at 0.15 - 0.20 wavelength 
high on 80m; (2) Open feeders; (3) and Remote ATU.  Justification:  On 80M, 
I'm mostly interested in regional 75m contacts and DX to a much lesser 
extent.  On 40m-10m, my interest in lower angles increases as frequency 
increases.  On 40m and above this is pretty much satisfied.  Open feeder 
length chosen so that the ATU sees a reasonable (under 1K Z, but more than 
25 ohms on all bands, all operating frequencies), high-quality open feeder 
spacers to minimize ATU changes and line loss with precipitation.

Paul, W9AC









 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 S9 43' Vertical

[Paul Christensen]

In addition to AD5X's excellent work, anyone considering installation of a 
43' vertical should first read Owen Duffy's (VK1OD) well-researched 
information, especially his information concerning feed-point alternatives:

http://vk1od.net/antenna/multibandunloadedvertical/index.htm

One reason for the 43' vertical's popularity is that typical radiation 
resistance is better than 100 ohms on 40m-10m -- but falls to less than 10 
ohms on 80m and much lower on 160m. On 160m/80m, system losses typically 
drop nearly in half with an ATU placed at the base feed when compared to a 
4:1 current balun feed with ATU at the transmitter.

Paul, W9AC

- Original Message - 
From: Julius Fazekas n2wn phriend...@yahoo.com
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3  S9 43' Vertical


 Hi Tom,

 Check out Phil's, AD5X, site: http://www.ad5x.com/articles.htm

 He has written a number of articles related to your questions. Good
 information with plenty of how to ideas with locally found materials.

 Elecraft's Balun kit is also capable of 1:4 unun and will easily work with
 any 100 watt rig.

 QST has had several items related to the ubiquitous 43' verticals that are
 all the rage now. I see at least one person has mentioned radials, which 
 are
 a must have to effectively use this antenna on 80-30.

 The K3's ATU is very effective, but keep in mind that you will be matching
 the feedline and antenna as a unit, versus matching just the antenna. The 
 K3
 will most likely find a match most of the time, but you still could be
 seriously mismatched at the antenna. It may work, it just won't work well.

 GL es 73,
 Julius

 -
 Julius Fazekas
 N2WN

 Tennessee Contest Group
 http://www.k4ro.net/tcg/index.html

 Tennessee QSO Party
 http://www.tnqp.org/

 Elecraft K2#4455
 Elecraft K3/100 #366
 Elecraft K3/100 #1875
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Re: [Elecraft] Installed K3EXREF

[Paul Christensen]

Another benefit of the GPS-DO is that routine calibration to ensure 
long-term accuracy is the responsibility of the U.S. Department of Defense, 
and funded by U.S. tax payers.  Unless there's a hardware-related problem 
with the GPS-DO, calibration is someone else's problem and expense.  The 
user need only care that the unit has attained Lock status.

Paul, W9AC



 

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Re: [Elecraft] Installed K3EXREF

[Paul Christensen]

I installed it on Friday in about 30 minutes, but I'm comfortable with my 
way around the K3.  I would think that most users could install it in about 
an hour or less.  Installation is actually very simple with very few parts 
involved.  K3EXREF came with an SMA connector and SMA to BNC between-series 
adapter.

Performance is exactly as promised by Elecraft.  Although K3EXREF will not 
phase lock the K3 to the external frequency source, I'm finding that it 
stays within 1 Hz on 20m when locked to CHU at 14.670 MHz.   I'm also 
finding that testing for zero-beat to WWV at 10 MHz is not a good idea in my 
shack, and perhaps yours too.  There are many 10 MHz signals being emitted 
by nearby appliances, LAN routers, security system, Ethernet boards, etc. 
That common, even frequency is everywhere in a household these days.

In much of North America, CHU is an excellent source for testing since it 
keeps cesium accuracy like WWV but the odd frequency of CHU is a real 
benefit since the chance for beating against extraneous signals is much 
smaller than at 10 MHz.  Testing at a higher frequency rather than say the 
MW broadcast band also provides for a reasonably good account of how the 
K3EXREF performs.   After installation, I would also suggest not trying to 
test zero beat K3EXREF against commercial MW or SW BC stations since their 
carriers are allowed to deviate much more than the cesium-based time and 
frequency standards of CHU and WWV.  Commercial AM broadcast station 
frequencies are typically only accurate to about +/- 20 Hz although most are 
better than that.

The K3's 49 MHz oscillator is only adjusted at intervals between 4 and 8 
seconds by K3EXREF in order to minimize jitter.  The K3 retains its original 
phase noise performance since the external reference is not used internal to 
the K3's frequency generating scheme.  Think of it this way -- K3EXREF is 
like lightly touching the 49 MHz oscillator with a feather every few seconds 
if necessary to keep it within 1 Hz or so.  Also, the K3 frequency stays 
accurate even at the moment of powering up the K3.  Kinda' fun to watch the 
49 MHz oscillator display change during warm-up as it's being corrected and 
compared against the external reference.

External references:  There are three primary types, and all can be 
purchased for less than USD $150 on the used market.  Cesium standards (a 
fourth type) are also available but are generally much more expensive, 
complicated, and won't offer any benefit to K3 users since K3EXREF limits 
resolution and accuracy to about 1 Hz.

The first type is the GPS Disciplined Oscillator (GPS-DO).   This type of 
standard locks itself onto the visible GPS satellites orbiting the sky. 
Requires a GPS antenna and is self-calibrating to the GPS satellites.  The 
GPS-DO's time and frequency averages from the visible satellites, each 
satellite having it's own on-board cesium-based oscillator.  Long-term 
accuracy is usually good to at least 1 x 10^-11.  Extreme accuracy and only 
a magnitude or two behind cesium.  Look for Hewlett-Packard Z3801A, Z3816A, 
Trimble Thunderbolt, Brandywine, Symmetricon, and Datum models.  Short list, 
but many others available.

Rubidium is the next type.  No GPS tracking needed.  Accuracy commensurate 
with GPS-DO.  No antenna required.  Long-term performance is highly 
dependent on the quality of the optical beam from the rubidium pump lamp. 
Look for EF Efratom, Datum,

Third, is a high quality oven-controlled crystal oscillator (OCXO). 
Requires periodic calibration.  Accuracy good to at least +/- 0.05 ppm and 
offer the best phase noise performance among the three types of oscillators, 
but as noted earlier, the excellent phase noise attributes of the OCXO will 
not be carried over to the K3.

A shack reference oscillator is good for use with other equipment too (e.g., 
frequency counter).   Although a bit lossy, I currectly use a Mini-Circuits 
passive three-way splitter, but one can purchase a distribution amp to feed 
many pieces of equipment from a single oscillator.  Unlike the splitter, a 
DA offers unity gain and very high port isolation.

Finally, be mindful that most GPS-DO and rubidium units use internal 
switch-mode DC-DC converters.  Switching noise was bad enough on two of my 
units that I decided to gut the converters and used an outboard 
triple-output linear supply.  The Trimble Thunderbolts that have been 
retired from the cellular industry require an external triple-output supply. 
If choosing this model, get a linear type and avoid the headaches.

Paul, W9AC 

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Re: [Elecraft] I did it again!

[Paul Christensen]

 And the third (which is what made me a lid last night) is that if I 
 forget I'm in QRQ mode
then SPLIT does not activate.

Don't feel too bad, Vic.  I've done that myself.  The K3's macros make the 
entire split operation so easy that I've become complacent and just assume 
I'm on the right Tx frequency in QRQ mode.  I now make it a point to look at 
the Tx indicator after engaging the macro.  I guess I should set up another 
macro just for QRQ, although I've not yet looked to see if that's a command 
available in a macro.

Paul, W9AC


- Original Message - 
From: Vic K2VCO v...@rakefet.com
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] I did it again!


 It's several things.

 One problem is that I watch the P3, so I don't notice the delta TX 
 indicator on the K3.

 Another is that I do use the second rx, and my brain seems to think that 
 if I am hearing
 the pileup in my right ear then that's where I'm going to transmit.

 And the third (which is what made me a lid last night) is that if I forget 
 I'm in QRQ mode
 then SPLIT does not activate.

 I've asked for a vertical line on the P3 that would display the TX 
 frequency. That would
 save me, but wouldn't help those without a P3.

 I've also suggested that SPLIT should override QRQ, or that there could be 
 an MN command
 that could be put in a macro to reliably turn off QRQ and allow SPLIT.

 On 3/15/2011 1:00 AM, FredJensen wrote:
 On 3/15/2011 5:47 AM, Vic K2VCO wrote:
 Maybe I'm too old to be trusted with a K3 (hey, my wife won't let me 
 ride a motorcycle
 anymore either).

 Andrea won't let me climb my tower either ... like I actually could :-)

 I must be really missing some features in my K3, I'm not having any of
 these problems with transmitting on one frequency and listening on
 another.  Other than some AGC settings and TX EQ settings I got from
 K9YC, I pretty much run it out of the box.  I haven't been arrested by
 the DX Cops -- yet -- I seem to be able to work the DX in split mode
 [occasionally, I call more than I work],  and my KUSB thingy works
 just fine with N1MM, K3 Utility, and K3_EZ.  I'm beginning to wonder if
 I'm missing something.  Maybe I need the second receiver.

 73,

 Fred K6DGW
 Auburn CA


 -- 
 Vic, K2VCO
 Fresno CA
 http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA100 SO-239 Help

[Paul Christensen]

One solution, especially for folks who are in the beginning stages of K3 
construction, involves substitution of the SO-239 for a better quality 
connector.  I used a pair of Amphenol types with a Teflon insulator, but 
Phenolic is fine.  These were purchased from Mouser, catalog P/N is 
523-83-798.  The Amphenol P/N is 83-798.

On a  related matter, I avoid RF return path connections where only the 
chassis is used to establish an RF return without a dedicated return wire. 
Without a return wire, the return path is often left to force its way 
through multiple mating metal pieces and hardware.  On my K3, I added a 
dedicated ground lug and buss wire connected to the SO-239's machine screws. 
The other ends are connected back to the PCB, adjacent to the center pin 
wire. On a different mail list, this sparked debate as to whether this 
practice creates a PIN 1 problem.  It doesn't.  The buss wire is used back 
to the RF circuit but it's not a substitute for the SO-239 bonding still 
desired at the chassis.

What's odd is that the KPA100 assembly manual as shown on p.32 (Figure A2) 
shows use of a ground lug and buss wire on the SO-239 connector back to 
circuit ground.  The oddity is that this practice was not carried through on 
the K3.   Apart from the chassis, it seems the only ground return connection 
available on or near the SO-239 is if the Aux  RF BNC connector is 
installed.  Then, the shield of the RG-174 coax ties to a ground lug.  For 
reference, see p. 24 of the K3 assembly manual.

Paul, W9AC

- Original Message - 
From: Jack Smith jack.sm...@cliftonlaboratories.com
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA100 SO-239 Help


 I've found the same problem with two batches of Teflon insulated, single
 hole mount SO-239 connectors manufactured in China and purchased from RF
 Connection. The center pin spins within the Teflon bushing and unless
 the user is extremely careful when connecting a PL-259, the wire
 connected to the center conductor will break off.

 I returned one batch and received a second batch that were supposed to
 be correct and found the same problem. I rejected those as well.

 I agree that a connector with this problem should not be used - too
 great a risk of damage to the internal wiring.

 Jack K8ZOA

 On 2/25/2011 12:58 PM, dw wrote:
 Hi John,
 If it were me, and there is a possibility that the inner wire soldered
 to the inner pin could freely spin around during the process of taking
 on/off coax at the back of the unit, I would not take the risk of
 compromising the inner wire such that it could twist, bird-cage or
 possibly short to gnd.

 N1BBR
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA100 SO-239 Help

[Paul Christensen]

 I cannot picture how you could spin the CENTER conductor. That would
 require twisting the coax attached to the male half.

Sure, it shouldn't happen if the op uses diligence in keeping all connectors 
tight.  But if the PL-259 becomes loose and ever-so-slightly unmates from 
the SO-239, the retention teeth no longer inhibit connector rotation.  Any 
lateral pressure from the cable, especially from large, inflexible cables, 
causes the SO-239 pin to rotate.

Paul, W9AC
 

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA100 SO-239 Help

[Paul Christensen]

 One solution, especially for folks who are in the beginning stages of K3 
 construction, involves 

Sorry, meant KPA100 or K3 construction...

Paul, W9AC
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 TX delay

[Paul Christensen]

 I am under the impression that the TX DLY setting of 8 msecs does not
 actually produce an 8 msec delay between KEY OUT going low and start of 
 RF.

At the default 8 ms setting of TX DLY, I measure ~ 9 ms of delay in QRQ mode 
between the K3's key *input* line and RF.  So, I agree that the 8ms figure 
is not associated with the time measured from the K3's amp key line to the 
onset of RF. At least, that's the way it measures here.

In non-QRQ CW with TX DLY still at 8ms, I measure ~ 16 ms between key 
closure and RF.

Paul, W9AC 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 TX delay

[Paul Christensen]

 I've also advocated to Elecraft in the past to make available RF delay
 settings below 8 ms for those of us who have fast QSK amplifier switching
 using vacuum relays or switching diodes. (My homebrew 6m amplifier T-R
 speed  is well under 4 ms, for example. The new Elecraft amp, I assume, 
 will be
 even faster.)

I believe the larger issue is keeping good oscillator stability (to prevent 
transmitter chirp) between T/R and R/T transitions.  That's a reason why 
Elecraft has not immediately implemented RIT in the K3 while in QRQ mode. 
Folks with a KRX3 can get around the RIT issue with the second Rx.  Even 
when the K3 does have RIT in QRQ mode, I believe Wayne indicated that the 
frequency delta will be quite restricted for this reason.

In the Ten Tec Omni Six series, CW chirp gets worse as the frequency delta 
between the Tx and Rx increases.  It can get pretty bad with RIT/XIT 
excursions nearing 10 kHz.  Most folks would not use RIT/XIT with such a 
large offset and this effect mostly goes unnoticed.  In the Omni V, T/R 
times are actually slowed down a bit with larger VFO A/B split excursions 
(no RIT/XIT in the V model) and chirp is non-existent.

I bring up the Ten Tec examples because the K3 is not immune from the same 
oscillator settling effects.  There's a definite  trade-off between T/R 
switch times and oscillator settling time when using a common oscillator for 
Tx and Rx

Paul, W9AC




 

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